Heather Paige Kent vs Heather Dubrow w/ Tess Sanchez

Legendary Hollywood casting director and best selling author of We've Decided to Go in a Different Direction TESS SANCHEZ tries to convince Heather to go back to her old name! PLUS: Tips on how to get through the casting process, Heather's audition for E.R., how Tess' husband Max Greenfield briefly flirted with the world of real estate, where Tess would look for Mr Right today if she was single AND MUCH MORE!

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:04):
Let's talk with Heather debro starts. Now, Okay, I'm not
gonna lie. Just hearing the title of this book seriously
gave me emotional hives.

Speaker 2 (00:12):
They went in a different direction. Oh my god.

Speaker 1 (00:15):
Literally, everyone that's ever sat in a folding chair in
a hallway is going to get a little vomit in
their throat from hearing the title. But we today, we're
going to go behind the table with the woman who
has cast some of the biggest stars of the world
and left a few of us crying into our diet cokes,
literally and figuratively. Please welcome Powerhouse casting director, producer and

(00:36):
now author Tess Sanjez.

Speaker 3 (00:39):
Hello, welcome. You know what I didn't tell you is
that I remember you. You do as Heather page Kent.

Speaker 1 (00:46):
That's so nice. Yeah, thank you, I hope in a
good way.

Speaker 3 (00:50):
Of course, of course I remember she was like, you know,
like Heather page Kent the top of the list, you know,
So thank you.

Speaker 2 (00:57):
I hope to be there again someday.

Speaker 1 (00:58):
Every and when I'm set with my husband, I threatened
to change my name back.

Speaker 2 (01:04):
Good for you, No, I really do.

Speaker 1 (01:07):
But I have to say, like when I read the title,
I literally had such a visceral reaction to it.

Speaker 2 (01:12):
We've decided to go in a different direction.

Speaker 1 (01:15):
Is the ultimate like that, because it's like you think
you have it, yeah, and then it's just gone right,
And it's kind of like a version of Bless your
Heart exactly.

Speaker 2 (01:26):
It's so condescending. It is, it's so awful, but there's
no good way.

Speaker 1 (01:30):
There's also I remember I was up for When Joe
with Joey the spinoff.

Speaker 3 (01:37):
Joey Oh yes, so Blanc.

Speaker 1 (01:41):
Matt LeBlanc spin off of Friends and so it was
to play a sister and I had auditioned for it
and it was me, and then it was me and
like Gina Gershan and Debbie Mazar who's friend of mine
who we had done That's Life together. The three of
us had tested for it and then and then I
did a screen test for it, which I had never

(02:02):
had to do before, and they were like still circling
It was like, you have to say, still circling around.

Speaker 3 (02:08):
I was on was it on the set?

Speaker 2 (02:11):
Did you do it?

Speaker 1 (02:12):
It wasn't They built a set for it, Oh my god, yeah, And.

Speaker 2 (02:16):
They were still quote circling around me.

Speaker 1 (02:18):
And then they were sticking a pin in it, which
is also the worst thing you could say.

Speaker 2 (02:22):
And then the title my next book, Yeah, sticking a
pin in it.

Speaker 1 (02:25):
And then at the last second dray Di Matteo, who
I adore. I don't know her, but I just think
she's fabulous. Great, they brought her in and that's who
they wanted, and there it was.

Speaker 2 (02:35):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (02:35):
I feel like that was like she was right off
the Sopranos.

Speaker 1 (02:39):
Yeah, and it was an interesting different thing.

Speaker 2 (02:41):
And I totally get it.

Speaker 1 (02:43):
I mean, I think I was probably a more obvious
choice and she was a less obvious choice.

Speaker 2 (02:49):
But man, was that disappointing.

Speaker 1 (02:51):
I mean, I remember being in the in the I
went to the screen test and they're like, they did
your hair and makeup for you. So I go there
and this guy is cutting my hair and I knew
it was like a Chris McMillan guy.

Speaker 2 (03:04):
And he's like, do you want me to cut your hair?
I'm like, um, He's like, well, I'm here, you might
as well let me.

Speaker 1 (03:08):
And then I realized it was Chris McMillan, who's Jennifer
Aniston's of course hair, you know, did all her famous
dying to get a haircut, hair cuts and everything.

Speaker 2 (03:16):
I was like, uh, yeah, I cut my hair on
I'll just sad hair.

Speaker 1 (03:20):
And they were so he was so nice and everyone
was so great, and then I didn't get it, and
that was very.

Speaker 3 (03:25):
Do you ever think about how your life would be
different had you gotten that job?

Speaker 1 (03:32):
I think that you could say that of any of
the jobs. I mean, I think, what if I had
never gotten That's Life? What I had never gotten Jenny,
What you know, any of the shows I did?

Speaker 2 (03:43):
What if That's Life had?

Speaker 1 (03:45):
I think what I think more of is that That's Life,
which you know is a big show on CBS that
I started with Ellen Burston and Bolservino and all the
people and Wie Masar, Kevin Dillan. It was critically acclaimed,
but it was in It was always in a terrible
time slot and couldn't find its audience, and you know,

(04:05):
they gave it two years and then canceled it. What
I do think about is if that had gone on,
because I mean those numbers today would be a juggernaut
hit right totally if that had gone on, how that
would have changed my life? And I loved playing that
role and I loved that show. But you know the joke, Yeah,
I mean, I think any part how would it have changed?

Speaker 2 (04:27):
But I think ultimately, what your real life looks like
is truly you know where you're meant to be, right.

Speaker 1 (04:35):
And so if I had, you know, done that show
or the other show had continued, what if I had
never been on reality TV?

Speaker 2 (04:41):
What would my life look like? Now?

Speaker 1 (04:44):
I have no idea, but you know, when I go
home and I've got that situation, I mean, I wouldn't
want it to be.

Speaker 2 (04:52):
Any other way. That's right, good, I think that's the truth.

Speaker 1 (04:56):
So tell me about tell me about you know, why
did you even want to get into casting?

Speaker 2 (05:05):
Did you ever want to be an actress?

Speaker 3 (05:07):
When I was young, like in elementary school, I did
a lot of theater, so I was attracted to, you know,
the stage, and then that later turned into movies and
that kind of thing. But I really gravitated towards casting.
I just it was mysterious to me. And I've always

(05:30):
been a people person, and so you know, the book
sort of starts with me really getting my first internship
as you know, a casting assistant and opening envelopes and
you know, doing isn't.

Speaker 1 (05:43):
That So when I was reading it, I was like,
oh my god, this is so old school.

Speaker 2 (05:46):
Like do people still have headshots? They do? They do?
Do they staple them to their resumes? That?

Speaker 3 (05:54):
I don't know. I think maybe paper clip.

Speaker 2 (06:00):
Because back in the day it was such a big deal.
Oh my god.

Speaker 3 (06:03):
It's like, oh, things aren't going well right now. I
need new new headshots.

Speaker 2 (06:07):
Yes, i need a new look. I need new headshots.

Speaker 1 (06:09):
I'm going to take them to the the retoucher right
to have reason why one hundred dollars per line to
get right right right?

Speaker 2 (06:17):
Yeah? I think that to me.

Speaker 3 (06:19):
With the internet now, if you want to see what
someone looks like, you know, in many different forms, you
just you can google them and you can print it
up from there.

Speaker 2 (06:29):
But you know what's so crazy, which I literally just
thought of. So I'm doing some new shots just because oh,
you're getting new headshots.

Speaker 1 (06:36):
Well, I was just doing a photo shoot because you know,
for projects I'm working on what I can't announced yet
because they're not announcing it yet.

Speaker 2 (06:46):
But you know what I'm talking about.

Speaker 1 (06:48):
I just have some fresh shots to put out there
for you know whatever. But I said to my photographer
friend Aaron, I was like, can you also do.

Speaker 2 (06:56):
A headshot for me?

Speaker 1 (06:57):
I feel like I need a classic head shot and
I didn't realize it till the second.

Speaker 2 (07:02):
But do I need that? But I think I do.

Speaker 3 (07:05):
If you think you need it, then get it done.

Speaker 2 (07:07):
Yeah, I think I do.

Speaker 3 (07:08):
Good to have it in your back pocket.

Speaker 2 (07:09):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (07:09):
And I also feel like when people google me, they
see Heather Dubrow shots, correct, and I want them to
see more of a Heather.

Speaker 2 (07:18):
Page can vibe. Oh, I like it, you know what
I mean? I need to more of a neutral.

Speaker 3 (07:23):
Now are you thinking like black and white or color?

Speaker 2 (07:25):
I don't know. Is there is there a trend? Do
you know?

Speaker 1 (07:29):
I literally was thinking black and white. That's what we
used to do. Of course, no one did color, I know,
but I think I only modeling Z cards color.

Speaker 2 (07:39):
Yes, right? Is that still a thing? Is ZED card?
I don't think so. No, I don't. I don't even
know what that met z, But that was what you got.

Speaker 3 (07:46):
There was usually a dressy shot and a bathing suit shot, yeah,
on a ZED card.

Speaker 1 (07:50):
And a commercial like jeans on a stool, leaning on
your on your hand.

Speaker 2 (07:56):
Oh my gosh.

Speaker 3 (07:57):
Yeah, I don't think those exist anymore, don't they? Weren't
they called like a composite.

Speaker 2 (08:02):
A composite picture.

Speaker 3 (08:03):
Yeah, I think you should just do like a traditional
When I think headshot, I think like head and shoulders.

Speaker 2 (08:11):
Correct, Yeah, a head shot.

Speaker 3 (08:13):
A headshot, yes, with that should be color. I don't
think you should do black and white.

Speaker 2 (08:19):
Okay, so we're gonna do it. We're gonna do it
color headshot.

Speaker 3 (08:22):
The way that they're doing things now you can literally
see what it looks like in black and white.

Speaker 2 (08:27):
Isn't that crazy?

Speaker 3 (08:28):
Yeah, and see what it looks like in color, and
then have both.

Speaker 2 (08:31):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (08:32):
All right, So back to this, So you've become a
casting assistant. You're opening up envelopes, which is so crazy
because just so people understand that are listening back in
the day, Well, why don't you explain.

Speaker 2 (08:41):
It how submissions went?

Speaker 3 (08:43):
So there's a role, Well, like, I like to start
with the breakdown, Okay, okay, So the breakdown. The casting
director will send out a breakdown looking for a female
ages eighteen to twenty three, tall, of Italian descent.

Speaker 1 (09:03):
Yes, rollerblading a plus right right.

Speaker 3 (09:08):
Experience with animals, always good with comedic timing, blah blah blah.
And it will also tell a little bit about the
project and then a little bit about the role, and
they'll have the character's name Roseanne, let's say. And then
the agents will then take those take that sort of

(09:28):
order and say who in my on my list fits
that description. Then they go and they find they pull
the headshots, then they step them in a Manila envelope.

Speaker 2 (09:39):
Then they mail them to the casting office.

Speaker 3 (09:41):
Think about how long this takes, Yes, I mean days,
but they would try to do like use a messenger
and like or fects it.

Speaker 2 (09:48):
Yes, yes, sometimes it was faxed. Yeah, we didn't get
a lot of facts shots.

Speaker 3 (09:54):
No, people were like some interurn is going to drive
this over to your house.

Speaker 2 (09:58):
Oh right, yeah, because.

Speaker 3 (10:00):
You wanted like the nice yeah yeah, and so then
I yes, So my first job was opening hundreds of
envelopes and then putting the character name on a sticky,
and then putting every headshot that came for that character
on a bookshelf and then down you know.

Speaker 2 (10:20):
So we had the entire.

Speaker 3 (10:21):
Cast and all the submissions, and I would have paper
cuts all over my hands.

Speaker 1 (10:27):
Of course you did, because you were opening Manila envelopes
all day long. And then as an actor, you would
go into the casting office and they would have headshots
of who was already cast up on the wall and
you'd be like oh crap, I'm her same type. Like,
there's no way they're hiring me for the role.

Speaker 2 (10:43):
I'm driving great or I don't look like her daughter, right, Yes, exactly, we.

Speaker 3 (10:51):
Could be related. Yeah, Like there's like a million rationales.
You know, I could dye my hair like people are.

Speaker 2 (10:56):
Also like, oh, listen. I remember being in a network
test for.

Speaker 1 (11:02):
Oh what was it called. It was a British comedy
that they brought over here. Lindsay Price was in it
and someone else. Oh, I can't remember, but anyway, I
remember walking into the test and they were really having
a hard time casting this I and so they called
me to come into this thing and I walked in.
It was at NBCA, and I walked into the test
and I looked at the other two girls because.

Speaker 2 (11:23):
They wanted me to read with them.

Speaker 1 (11:24):
And I walked in and I went, well, I could
dye my hair because they were both brunettes. And I
was like, okay, they're never hiring a third brunette. And
they didn't.

Speaker 2 (11:33):
They hired a blonde. They just you know, steer watch
who got that part?

Speaker 1 (11:38):
I don't remember, okay remember, but I remember it was
someone I didn't know.

Speaker 3 (11:42):
And then when your agent called. Did they say we've
they've decided to go in a different direct.

Speaker 2 (11:48):
Churicis.

Speaker 1 (11:48):
But I do remember there were some some girls that
they would call pilot killers that they stopped like, you
do too many pilots, and they would stop hiring.

Speaker 3 (11:57):
You too many pilots that didn't get picked up exactly.

Speaker 2 (12:00):
Yeah, did you have a list like that. No, it's
not something we would write down. But no, I met
a mental Oh you can't bring her in?

Speaker 3 (12:09):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (12:09):
Oh so, so I'm fair. Okay, so you're working as
a casting assistant. You know, it's so weird. Do you
know Alex Rosenberg? She's a casting director? Okay, but anyway,
she's an old friend of mine. I just ran into
her craigs the other night. But it's funny that you're

(12:30):
here today. Her aunt was Vicky Rosenberg.

Speaker 2 (12:34):
Vicky. Yeah, and Vicky's husband, Milt Sushan, was my first manager.
Oh wow, because of Alex.

Speaker 1 (12:40):
Because Alex and I knew each other since we went
to Carnegie Mellon together in high school.

Speaker 3 (12:45):
Oh really, Yeah, I remember Vicky because she was like
head of like a studio, a casting she was casting
an executive and the person that I first worked with.
This casting director who I'm sure you know Greg Orson.

Speaker 2 (13:02):
Yeah, of course I know Greg.

Speaker 3 (13:04):
I was his casting assistant my first page job.

Speaker 2 (13:08):
I love Greg.

Speaker 1 (13:10):
He's still casting Oh yeah really see, I need to
do like a remember who I Am tour.

Speaker 3 (13:15):
I feel like I don't disagree, right, Yeah, and you
need to go back using Heather page count do you
think so?

Speaker 1 (13:23):
See, that's an interesting question because I have mixed feelings
about it. I've created such a brand around my name
that I think it holds something. And I do think
the cross promotion of being on my reality show and
being on Housewives, there's something to be said for that.
And I don't know why no one's tapped into that,
but I think it's a good thing because I know

(13:45):
when I do guest star roles on shows that that
becomes Yeah you know, that's a thing that becomes a thing.

Speaker 3 (13:52):
Yeah, I understand that. But I think that you have
such a rich history in acting and take it back.

Speaker 2 (14:02):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (14:02):
Maybe so people will be like, oh, it's Heather, it's
Heather page ken like because not I think about that.

Speaker 2 (14:09):
Not everybody believe it or not watches the Housewise that's
surprising to me. I'm not kidding.

Speaker 1 (14:17):
I can't what is so bizarre and could you ever
have imagined? I mean, I've talked about this before, but
like you know, it was very strange going from scripted
to reality. And at that time, I mean I remember
being on I was on this show Start Greaving Mad,
and so we were at CBS Radford and so across
the hole, you know, the alleyway was two guys and
a girl in a pizza place. So it was Ryan

(14:40):
Reynolds and rich Tricola and Tiffany Theeson and we'd all
like hang out in between you know, scenes and whatever
in the alleyway there. And I remember Who Wants to
Be a Millionaire became like this huge hit and it
just obliterated right all the scripted shows and we were like, oh,
these game shows in reality and it's taking over a world.

(15:02):
Now cut two years later, here we are and it's
become such a huge you know fiber in this you
know weave of television. And I definitely think obviously there's
a place for it, and landscape of television is changing.
But man, it is like it is so crazy to
me the reach of this.

Speaker 2 (15:21):
Show mm hmm. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (15:22):
And I think that like the bigger conversation is are
the people that you would be potentially working for and
with are they because there's certainly way more straight men
that don't watch.

Speaker 2 (15:37):
The housewives but their wives too.

Speaker 3 (15:39):
Right, but like they're they're unfortunately making some of the decisions. Yeah,
so they don't understand like the value and the weight.

Speaker 2 (15:47):
Right, I see what you're saying. All right, well I
will consider that for sure.

Speaker 1 (15:51):
Okay, So you're working as a casting assistant and then
you work your way up to casting director and what
what do you love about it?

Speaker 2 (15:58):
Like, explain to people like how this is because I'll tell.

Speaker 1 (16:02):
You from an actor point of view, getting past a
casting director is the most difficult thing you can do.

Speaker 2 (16:09):
Once you are someone that gets to.

Speaker 1 (16:11):
Producer level and you don't have to audition for the
casting director first, it actually becomes easier to get a
job because you guys are difficult and I mean it
in a good way, but you guys are because you
and I get it.

Speaker 2 (16:25):
Your name is behind it, and so you only want
to bring.

Speaker 1 (16:28):
Who you think are like the top choices to the director,
to the producers. We want to get past you correct,
explain the process?

Speaker 3 (16:37):
Well, I mean what you're talking about is pre reading, right,
the pre read is just was tough, just with the
casting director, and I did a fair share of that.
But it wasn't long before I joined the WB Network
as a casting associate there and was immediately in the

(16:59):
room with producers. So we were where you would you know,
we were the network test. We were where the actor
wanted to get to to like show they could prove
themselves for the role. So that was the majority of
my career was you know, on the executive side. And

(17:21):
I started that at the WB and you know, just
fell in love with after working for Greg Orson and
you know, getting my casting assistant you know title, and
then associate and then yeah, and then I went independent
again and then I joined you know, the executive world again.

Speaker 1 (17:41):
So you know what's so funny to me is that
being a casting director you have such a high BS meter.
I mean, like you can read I'm sure you can
read someone the moment they walk into a room.

Speaker 2 (17:54):
Well, it's like anything.

Speaker 3 (17:55):
If you do it for ten thousand hours, yeah, you
become an expert, you know, And I definitely have more
than that, and so I I but I've always been
a people person. I love meeting new people and I'm
as enthusiastic as they come, so probably maybe more so
than your average casting director. But I really root for

(18:16):
people and I want them to get the job and
I want them.

Speaker 2 (18:19):
To be great. Yeah, it's so tough. I mean, being
on the other side of it is just like it's
but you know.

Speaker 1 (18:26):
I've been in the casting position, having been a producer
on some of the shows I did, and being in
the room. Man, that's tough. It's a tough job, because.

Speaker 2 (18:37):
That's the truth.

Speaker 1 (18:37):
The actors come in worried because they want to get
the job, but the truth is we want you to
solve a problem.

Speaker 3 (18:43):
Correct, right, Yes, of course, it's like, please be good
so we can wrap this up.

Speaker 2 (18:48):
Right, we can move on to the next thing. But
you know, we always talk about reality TV.

Speaker 1 (18:54):
As you know, the audiences are so savvy now because
they really have a high BS meter. They can tell
and it's then ticity is absolutely right, what self someone's acting,
You can see it. So is the same true when
people walk in, like how do you how do you
want people to walk in? Do you want people to
walk in already as the character? Do you want people

(19:15):
to walk in as themselves?

Speaker 2 (19:17):
As themselves? Yes, definitely. Yeah, yeah, just to.

Speaker 3 (19:20):
Get a sense of I mean, because the truth is,
this is the person that you're going to be dealing with.
They're going to be on set, you know, are they social?
Are they a weird?

Speaker 2 (19:29):
Yeah? Difficult? Yeah?

Speaker 3 (19:32):
So yeah you want just like a normal person that
you could see like they'd be fun to have around.

Speaker 2 (19:36):
Yeah, no, I love it.

Speaker 1 (19:39):
So I recently took an online auditioning class.

Speaker 2 (19:43):
You know, G Charles Wright.

Speaker 1 (19:44):
Yeah, so G and I knew each other from years ago,
but he does this online audition class.

Speaker 2 (19:51):
Okay, are you gobsmacked? I am.

Speaker 1 (19:53):
And so someone had told me about it and another actor,
another actor had told.

Speaker 2 (19:59):
Me, and was this to audition via tape? It's to learn.

Speaker 1 (20:05):
It is a class to it's like an acting class
to learn to audition on tape. Okay, yes, yes, So
it's a completely zoomed class. And he's terrific. He's a
casting director and he's fantastic. And I really didn't have time.

Speaker 2 (20:20):
I wanted to start.

Speaker 1 (20:22):
Now that I'm back in LA, I wanted to start
taking classes and I really don't have time for out
of class work, right, So I didn't want to go
take like sort of a classic acting class. So I
auditioned for Groundlings in the Groundlings. Now I'm doing that,
and then.

Speaker 2 (20:34):
I thought, this is so cool.

Speaker 1 (20:35):
I don't have that skill set because I never had
to audition on tape.

Speaker 2 (20:41):
Right, It's a whole beast, it's.

Speaker 1 (20:43):
A whole different thing. I mean, I think the pandemic
just changed everything. Everything, And what people don't understand is
when you go in. That's what I was asking about
the moment before and all that, because I love the
energy of walking into a room and you know, filling
it mm hmm and then creating a character and you know, bringing.

Speaker 2 (21:03):
Death things to the table. Yeah, you're an in room
kind of girl. Yes, I like. I like audition.

Speaker 3 (21:10):
It is about you know, getting into a room and
connecting and being like, I love this part of the.

Speaker 2 (21:16):
Script or whatever it is.

Speaker 3 (21:17):
Yes, small talk as opposed to I'm acting with a
reader and it's going to be sent in and they're
not going to get a sense of my personality.

Speaker 1 (21:25):
Or you overthink it so much you want to do
it a hundred times. I don't like watching myself, right,
So you know, that whole thing is very But the
class was great, Like, I really enjoyed doing that.

Speaker 3 (21:37):
Tell me a little bit about that class. Yeah, I'm
so interested. So because I during the pandemic, I was
living with my husband, Max, who is an actor, and
he had a few you know, auditions on tape for
movies and stuff.

Speaker 2 (21:56):
And my daughter kind of got the bug, Oh, she
should take this class.

Speaker 3 (22:01):
And so she said, you know, at however old she
was ten or eleven, I want to read.

Speaker 2 (22:07):
Like let me.

Speaker 3 (22:08):
And I was like, as a casting director, your tapes
have to be perfect.

Speaker 2 (22:16):
And how do I, as as a.

Speaker 3 (22:18):
Casting director and as a mom, like infuse this tape
with a good sense of her personality and how do
we achieve this? And so I took it on like
a regular job. I was like, We've got the blue background,
you know, we got the camera, we got the lights.
We did it all in our guest house. I mean,
it was It was such a good sort of outlet

(22:40):
for me because you know, as the book goes on,
you know, I lose someone says to me, we've decided
to go in a different direction, and I lose my job.
So you know, that was a good way to channel
some of my need for you know, casting, and it
was a great exercise. But I consider myself a very

(23:00):
good self tape coach.

Speaker 2 (23:02):
Well, you may want to start your own class.

Speaker 3 (23:04):
Well no, I mean just like if you ever need
a tape.

Speaker 2 (23:07):
Yeah, I'll call you.

Speaker 1 (23:09):
I mean absolutely, this is It was so fascinating to me.
It was like, okay, so again, and I think these
are really good skills. Honestly, I want you to keep
talking after we talk about this tape thing. I want
you to keep talking about audition process and what works
and what doesn't, because I think what people can glean
from it even if you are not an actor. If
you are great, but even if you're not, how you

(23:30):
show up into a room correct is so important. From
the moment you walk in to what you are wearing,
to how you hold yourself to how you I mean,
all of those things make such a.

Speaker 2 (23:42):
Difference how you show up in life.

Speaker 3 (23:44):
What I say to people is whether it's a regular
job interview, that your posture walks in that room before
you do one hundred percent and if you're not eyes up,
eye contact, shoulders back, confident, yeah, walking in like you
like you own your own space, then it's like, don't
bother right, you.

Speaker 2 (24:05):
Know, And I still have that.

Speaker 3 (24:07):
I have that conversation with my daughter all the time,
because even if you don't, you got to fake it
when you walk in that room and connect with somebody,
that's it and then let everything else fall where it's
supposed to do. But that is the most important thing,
is how you walk into a room.

Speaker 2 (24:25):
Yeah, because that first impression is no joke.

Speaker 3 (24:27):
You can't redo it.

Speaker 2 (24:28):
No, you absolutely cannot.

Speaker 1 (24:30):
Even if your audition is great, there's something about it's like,
you know, it's like meeting anyone.

Speaker 2 (24:36):
It's a blind date. It's you know, anything you walk into.

Speaker 1 (24:40):
Your energy, your eye contact, your yeah, your physicality, all
of it reads there.

Speaker 3 (24:46):
I mean, there have been times in my life, many
times in my life where I haven't felt internally confident
for what I was going for.

Speaker 2 (24:54):
Who does I mean?

Speaker 1 (24:55):
We all I mean, and especially a lot of us
actoris performers have imposters in and so you're like, oh shit,
they're gonna figure out that I'm not talented.

Speaker 2 (25:03):
I don't know what I'm doing right, what am I
doing here?

Speaker 1 (25:06):
And then you sit in the waiting room and there's
you know, one other person, twelve other people that look
exactly like you or whatever, or you hear so and
so is up.

Speaker 2 (25:16):
For the role, and you're like, oh, well, of course
they're gonna get you know it, mine fucks you.

Speaker 3 (25:21):
Yeah, so you have to walk in that room. I
would train myself to walk into a room and forget
about the content of like what we're going to talk about,
but like, let me give you like a slice of
like how I feel like I can do this, Yes,
let me show you.

Speaker 1 (25:39):
It's like I always say, it's like five minutes of
Heather when I come in, maybe five minutes Heather. I'm
gonna tell you some inane story just so you can
watch me and you know, take me in and then
it's like, okay, great, Yeah, let's go.

Speaker 2 (25:52):
I love that, Let's do it.

Speaker 1 (25:57):
I think the one of the hard things and we'll
go back to the tape. But I think one of
the hard things for me when I was younger was
you want to work so badly. You auditioned for absolutely
everything because you have to. You can't turn down any audition.
But even if it's really not right for you, and
I don't think it ever hurt me, but I hated
doing roles that I knew inherently were just they weren't

(26:20):
comfortable for me, or they.

Speaker 2 (26:21):
Wouldn't write for me.

Speaker 3 (26:23):
But you know, I think a good casting director is
able to see things in you that maybe you don't
see in yourself.

Speaker 2 (26:33):
Yeah, that's maybe a good point. I will say. I
auditioned for Julie Bowen's part. I tested for her part
on Er. Okay, do you remember she was on Er?
It was like a multiple arc.

Speaker 1 (26:44):
Yeah, And it was me and Julie and another girl
and so we're sitting there and it's a big deal.

Speaker 2 (26:51):
I mean, Michael Crichton wrote it. He was in the room. Okay, Okay,
that's why I remember. Okay, Mike Crichton's in there.

Speaker 1 (26:57):
All is a when I tell you, like, if you
if anyone pictures what an audition is like, it's really
not what you think. Except this was like the biggest
boardroom table with like so many people there, network executives
and Michael Crichton and all these people.

Speaker 2 (27:13):
It's Er okay and Peter Roth, right, I yes, it
must have been.

Speaker 1 (27:17):
And so I leave there and of course you're waiting
for the call and whatever, and they said, oh my god,
they loved you.

Speaker 2 (27:24):
They think you should have your own sitcom. It was Er.
I was auditioning for look jobs, but get jobs. Yeah. No,
totally like you're like, great, what do you have? Yeah,
let's do it. Let's do it. It was so funny.

Speaker 1 (27:39):
Okay, anyway back to the taping thing, so being put
on tape, and I think these are good lessons for
people that do zoom calls, which obviously so many things
are zoom.

Speaker 2 (27:50):
Now.

Speaker 1 (27:51):
I have learned since the pandemic, during the pandemic, because
I was pitching a lot of shows during the pandemic,
how to have my enterery come across the zoom.

Speaker 2 (28:02):
That takes practice, right, but it's a.

Speaker 1 (28:06):
Good practice, and I think that's someone everyone needs to learn.

Speaker 2 (28:09):
So what is your top tip for that?

Speaker 1 (28:12):
I mean, like ten thousand hours, you know, I think
practice practice. You know, the more zooms you do, the
more comfortable you are. And I would say that instead
of staring into the camera or staring at yourself, that
it's really important to pin the person that's speaking and
just look directly at them on the screen as if
you are speaking.

Speaker 2 (28:32):
To them, because it focuses you.

Speaker 1 (28:36):
I agree because I think some you know, how people
are on you know, selfies or face times and they're
just staring at themselves and how they look.

Speaker 2 (28:45):
Which I mean I said I've done it before. I'm
not gonna lie because you're like, oh I look good
in this light.

Speaker 1 (28:51):
Okay, No, you have to really look at the other
person or else you are disengaged and you don't even
realize it. You cannot be, cannot lose, right, So that's
what that's a tip I would give.

Speaker 3 (29:03):
What I was pitching an unscripted show and we had
so much to get through that I was getting distracted
by the faces looking at me. So I just taped
the paper over the computer and just let them and
just did what I had to do in that case,
Like it was too distracting for me to look at.

Speaker 2 (29:24):
One post that's interesting.

Speaker 3 (29:26):
Yeah, because I didn't cover up the camera, but I
just covered up the faces that were like, oh yeah.

Speaker 2 (29:31):
That looked bored.

Speaker 1 (29:33):
Another thing that I do is I take post it
notes and I write. So if I'm pitching a show,
I write notes. And I've told like my son he
just got this really great internship the summer, but he
was doing his third interview or something, and he goes, oh,
I got to remember say this and this and this,
and he was kind of working it out, and I.

Speaker 2 (29:50):
Said, this is what I do. I said, take post it.

Speaker 1 (29:52):
Notes and put them all around your computer with buzzwords.
That's right, the things you want to remember, because if
you write a whole out, you can't read that, but
just little buzzwords just so you Because sometimes when you're nervous,
or you're focused, or you've done the pitch a.

Speaker 2 (30:08):
Million times, or you've interviewed a million times. I don't
know about you, but sometimes I'll think.

Speaker 1 (30:12):
Click, did I ear any tell that story?

Speaker 2 (30:16):
I already say that one thing I really wanted to do.

Speaker 3 (30:18):
Say.

Speaker 1 (30:19):
So, if you have these notes, you know what you
have and haven't said, because then you can just pull
it off right and that way.

Speaker 2 (30:24):
You're not looking down, you're not losing focus exactly. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (30:28):
I'm a big proponent of post it notes around the.

Speaker 1 (30:33):
Yeah, and it's old, and I'm telling you that is
the only way to do it. Don't make little notes
and have pop ups on your computer because things happen
and then you know, the faces go on top of
it and then you lose it. You want it in
big print and on your post it in Sharpie Yeah
and Sharpie. Oh my god, do you have like PTSD
from Sharpie's No? Oh, I guess that's firm signing I

(30:59):
have PTSD from Charlotte. I was thinking about when we
used to do autographs on the eight by tens.

Speaker 2 (31:04):
Never mind, that's me. How did you How did you
meet your husband? Do I know this? Oh the beanie?

Speaker 3 (31:10):
Yeah? We met old fashioned style in a nightclub, right, And.

Speaker 2 (31:17):
It was tee, who your husband is? First?

Speaker 3 (31:19):
My husband is Max Greenfield, formerly known as Schmidt from
New Girl and Dave on the Neighborhood and what is
this character? And on Running Point he's Kate Hudson's fiance.

Speaker 1 (31:32):
My daughter is obsessed with New Girl and watches it
that and Gilmore Girl.

Speaker 2 (31:38):
She watches on like a loop. And it was funny.
I was walking through the living room.

Speaker 1 (31:45):
This is like a month ago, and I had just
been on the phone with Zoe Deschanel and I heard
Zoe's voice.

Speaker 2 (31:51):
I was like, what happened? Did she just come over?
I know, I texted her. I'm like, oh my god,
my daughter's listen into your show. It was so bizarre.

Speaker 3 (32:04):
Yes, So he's had a good solid, you know, fourteen
years on regular TV. So it's been it's been a
good run, and which is amazing, Yeah, amazing. I mean,
he's a very talented guy.

Speaker 2 (32:17):
He's ended up.

Speaker 3 (32:18):
On two shows that have run seven seasons, so and
now he's going into his eighth season on the Neighborhood,
but that's coming to an end after this next season.
But yeah, he's been so blessed. It's so hard, especially
in this climate, to get a show that stays on
the air that long and people getting to know your character.

(32:39):
And but definitely Schmid, that character that Liz Merriweather created
was of a certain time and it really you know,
it ended up on I think Netflix when the pandemic started,
so people like literally rediscovered it, yeah, or just discovered
it for the first time, and it was like all

(33:01):
over again. So yeah, it's been great. Yeah, I'm really lucky.
But we met in two thousand and three, long before please.
So we were you know, we were both young and
just starting our careers and we were you know, neither

(33:24):
of us had money. And he's like, I want to
be an actor, but like a serious actor, and I
was like, oh lord, yeah.

Speaker 2 (33:31):
It was like you're tow love. What's the backup plan?
No backup plan? And he's like, this is what I
want to do.

Speaker 3 (33:38):
And I was like, oh great, well, I actually have
an executive job, and I'm like on my way and
I've got to stay on this track. And but don't
worry because I work in TV and you really only
want to do film, so there will be no crossover,
no crossover. And for years there was no there was
no crossover. And it wasn't until he starts to discover

(34:01):
like his comedy sort of like, oh maybe this is
where I belong in the world of comedy.

Speaker 1 (34:08):
Well, it used to be very different. You were either
a film actor or a television actor. And honestly, because
I was a TV actor, TV actors were looked down upon.

Speaker 2 (34:17):
There was no switching, and there was no switching.

Speaker 3 (34:19):
Yeah, I mean it is so different now as you
see Nicole Kidman on a million different shows.

Speaker 1 (34:24):
Oh yeah, you could do TV, you could do film,
by the way, you could do reality and do all that.

Speaker 2 (34:28):
It's crazy, it is.

Speaker 3 (34:29):
It's completely like the streaming generation like just changed everything.

Speaker 1 (34:34):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (34:35):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (34:35):
Eventually he was like, let me try out for let
me audition for like a single camera comedy and again getting.

Speaker 2 (34:44):
Was it something you were casting though?

Speaker 3 (34:46):
No, No, I mean he's you know, had agents and
was like doing right, just really trying to get a job,
a job that would last. And so he just was
doing guest spots here and there and then and I
was doing melrose Place the reboot and.

Speaker 2 (35:08):
He the reboot.

Speaker 3 (35:10):
Yeah, remember there was like Melroe's Place two point zero.
It was like sad that was in two thousand and seven, Okay,
And he came in to read and I was in
the room.

Speaker 1 (35:24):
Oh how awkward is that to have your husband walk
in and read. Well, you knew he was coming in.

Speaker 3 (35:30):
Actually I don't even I don't remember if I was
in the room. Anyways, it didn't go great, Oh dear.
They were like, well, you mean he's too charactery and
like he's from New York and this is Melroth's.

Speaker 2 (35:40):
Place and blah blah blah. But I think the.

Speaker 1 (35:43):
Did you have to tell him that you were going
in a different The writers were like, I think felt
bad for me, and I was like, it's totally fine.

Speaker 3 (35:51):
Yeah, And they said, you know, we have this one
thing that we want to do where we to promote
the show we want to have we want to hire
an actor to give a tour of the new melrose Place,
the apartment complex. And so I like came home. I'm like, well, you're.

Speaker 2 (36:10):
Not good news, bad news, good news, bad news.

Speaker 3 (36:13):
They want to hire you for like some like internet
marketing or whatever that turns into a photo shoot as
the realtor of Melrose Place.

Speaker 2 (36:23):
It ends up on every bus stop.

Speaker 3 (36:25):
Oh my god, Melrose and people calling him being like,
did you switch careers?

Speaker 2 (36:30):
Are you now in real este?

Speaker 3 (36:33):
I don't think he will ever forgive me for that.

Speaker 2 (36:35):
That is so.

Speaker 1 (36:36):
But didn't that Oh so they thought he was a
real estate agent. It didn't make him go viral, if
you will.

Speaker 2 (36:41):
It wasn't.

Speaker 3 (36:42):
It was just like you had to work too hard
to find like things. That was I think in two
thousand and five.

Speaker 2 (36:49):
Maybe, Oh my god, that's yeah, two thousand and six.

Speaker 3 (36:53):
Yeah, And so there he was like the realtor like
shot and tie on like every bus stop and oh
my god.

Speaker 1 (37:01):
I've worked with so many people and know so many
people from Meloy's place.

Speaker 2 (37:04):
It's so weird to me really. Oh yeah. Well, Lisa Rena,
we were an acting class. There are a hundre years.

Speaker 1 (37:09):
Ago've known her forever, and then we both ended up
on Housewives, huh. And I worked with Daphne Zunaga. She
was on I think an episode.

Speaker 2 (37:16):
Of That's Life.

Speaker 1 (37:16):
I worked with Doug Savant and Grant show. Isn't that weird?
Weirdly weird. Doug Savant and his wife Laura Layton, who
just posted their anniversary.

Speaker 2 (37:26):
They met on that show. They met on that show.

Speaker 1 (37:29):
But what's so weird is we Terry and I had
just gotten engaged and we were at this hole in
the wall at the time, little restaurant.

Speaker 2 (37:38):
So this is like we've uh like twenty eight years
ago hour or so. Lamy Louis in Paris, and it's
like filled.

Speaker 1 (37:45):
It's this tiny restaurant that's filled with like New York
Jews and actors and presians.

Speaker 2 (37:52):
And sounds like my dream.

Speaker 1 (37:53):
It's it's amazing, and the food is great, just it's
like chicken and fries.

Speaker 2 (37:57):
It unbelievable.

Speaker 1 (37:58):
And we were sitting there and Doug and Laura are
in the restaurant. I didn't know them, but I recognize anyway,
so I sort of looked over and I'm like, oh, Terry,
there's dogs, and so I clocked it.

Speaker 2 (38:10):
Whatever.

Speaker 1 (38:11):
And then anyway, years later I was working and did
I work with Laura too, maybe, But anyway, I was
working with Doug and we started talking about it, and
I said, this is so crazy.

Speaker 2 (38:21):
You'll never remember this, but we saw you guys in Paris.
He goes at La Mine Louis. He goes. We had
just gotten married.

Speaker 1 (38:27):
I think they eloped or something, but that was their honeymoon.

Speaker 2 (38:30):
And we had just gotten engaged.

Speaker 1 (38:33):
And the four of us were in the restaurant. In
my god, and it's a small restaurant.

Speaker 2 (38:37):
It was just funny.

Speaker 3 (38:38):
That is really funny.

Speaker 2 (38:39):
Anyway, there's my Melrose Place ties very strange. Well, we're
still working through that in my marriage of him being
please tell me you framed a photo of that. No,
I but I did.

Speaker 3 (38:51):
He did get to go to the premiere and before.

Speaker 2 (38:54):
Oh my god. That's isn't it funny?

Speaker 1 (38:56):
Though? Because when you get married to someone and you
think that they're in a certain lane, like I married
a doctor, Yeah, a doctor who's now a television person, you.

Speaker 2 (39:07):
Know what I mean?

Speaker 1 (39:08):
Like, that's not what I signed up for. I created
a monster, like you know, like I hired a serious
film actor. Why are you on my beat?

Speaker 2 (39:18):
This should be.

Speaker 1 (39:18):
Very separate, right, So have you ever thought about going
back into casting or like?

Speaker 2 (39:26):
Is that? Well, here's what you know.

Speaker 3 (39:28):
It's interesting that you ask that because I am still
a CSA member, and I am very passionate about casting
and I will it will always be in my life
in some way, whether it's me setting people up or
connecting people for different jobs, or even like calling a

(39:49):
writer being like this person, they're due. You need to
see them like they're amassing and I have. I feel
great about the relationships that I have and I and
I know so many wonderful writers and I but what
I miss is the job that I had and it
doesn't exist anymore. I loved being in the room with actors.

(40:11):
I don't like just watching tapes.

Speaker 2 (40:14):
It's different. It's a different industry, right, personal.

Speaker 3 (40:18):
Yeah, and like we would have like incredible network tests
and we you know, we would see the chemistry and
it was just it was a different time.

Speaker 2 (40:26):
Is there no more network tests?

Speaker 3 (40:29):
Honestly, I don't know. In that where people cram into
a room, it's mostly a screen test and that tape
then is circulated among different executives.

Speaker 2 (40:39):
Isn't that crazy?

Speaker 3 (40:40):
Like not everybody's in on Tuesdays or like you know, it's.

Speaker 1 (40:43):
Just like there's I can't I can't explain more that
you get the role.

Speaker 2 (40:48):
In the room. Yes, I agree, I'll tell you why.

Speaker 1 (40:52):
A girlfriend of mine who was a big commercial actress.

Speaker 2 (40:56):
I never did commercials. I don't know why. It just
was never my thing, but she was.

Speaker 1 (41:01):
She did commercials, and back in the day, if you
did one national commercial you could live for like ten years.
Agree it was you got so much money. The residuals
were huge. It was a big, big deal. So these
were very, very coveted jobs. And what I remember her
saying to me was, you never want to be the
first choice.

Speaker 2 (41:19):
You want to be like the third choice. That's who
gets the job.

Speaker 1 (41:22):
Because what happens is they auditioned everyone, and for commercials
it's on tape. It was always on tape because the
advertisers are here, right and the client is there and whatever.
So they put you on tape and they would put
them in an order. Here's our first choice.

Speaker 2 (41:37):
Second choice, third choice.

Speaker 3 (41:39):
O we are talking about.

Speaker 1 (41:40):
No one would agree on the first one, no one
agree on the second one, but the third or fourth
by that point they'd be like, yeah, yeah, yeah, we
can all agree.

Speaker 2 (41:47):
On this one. Oh okay. Interesting. So that was always
our thing.

Speaker 1 (41:50):
But I thought it was so interesting that it was
on tape. They were all on tape, and so it
makes me think about being in the room versus having
all these tapes circulated. I'm wondering if the same holds
true it's the third or fourth choice, because that's we
have to get down to that one for everyone to agree.

Speaker 2 (42:09):
I don't think that's true.

Speaker 3 (42:10):
I think those are you know, commercials are their own thing,
and it's like snippets, you know, you know, a good
monologue on a tape is if it's undeniable and it
happens to be first, it's it's the one.

Speaker 2 (42:24):
They're getting the job.

Speaker 3 (42:26):
So I don't know that that translates one hundred percent,
but I I do think there is something to see
what somebody looks like on camera, like a screen test.

Speaker 2 (42:37):
Because people do it differently, definitely.

Speaker 3 (42:40):
And sometimes people light up on camera and you don't
see it in the room.

Speaker 2 (42:45):
And other times.

Speaker 3 (42:47):
It's like the tape is good, but like you're not
getting a strong enough sense of who they are and
maybe what their potential is. But let's bring them in right,
and let's get in the room together. Because you know,
if eventually, during during my you know, twenty year span,
it went from only seeing actors in the room to

(43:08):
all executives coming into a room and watching a tape
of an actor auditioning. So you know, we went to
we transitioned to screen tests, but even those felt more
personal than doing it on a zoom or you know,
a self tape. So, I mean, the pandemic changed things.

(43:30):
But I if I could go back and have the
job that I had in the time that I had
during that time period, I would love it. It was
a dream job. I don't know that that job exists anymore,
Like there aren't people like having you know, actors come
in and neat and.

Speaker 2 (43:49):
Like, well there's theater, sure, but does that not interest you?
Not in the same way. No, not in the same way. Interesting.
I would think you'd be a really good matchmaker. I am.
I am a very good matchman, yeah, because you read
people right.

Speaker 3 (44:08):
And now I'm I'm really in need of eligible bachelors.

Speaker 2 (44:13):
Really because I know I'm a great girl.

Speaker 3 (44:16):
Yes, I have some great girlfriends that I'm like, you like,
where are they?

Speaker 2 (44:22):
I don't know.

Speaker 3 (44:25):
It's tough, it is, so, I mean, I also think
I need to go to places where like eligible. I
don't even know where that would be. Someone said to me,
if you had to meet someone today, where would you go.

Speaker 1 (44:36):
I know, you know what, because what's popular right now?
People aren't drinking anymore, which I find very disturbing, and
they go to like running clubs.

Speaker 3 (44:45):
Okay, see, I was going to say, I feel like
I could do really well if I were single in
an air one for example.

Speaker 2 (44:53):
Who are you meeting at the air one?

Speaker 3 (44:55):
Another like hot executive who's like running in for a
healthy one?

Speaker 1 (45:00):
He's his assistant is getting his healthy lunch or he's
not successful enough.

Speaker 2 (45:07):
If he's in there grabbing his lunch, I'm concerned.

Speaker 3 (45:11):
I guess it's more about like that he's connected to
Air one.

Speaker 1 (45:14):
I suppose No, you want to look for the assistant
and go, who's your book?

Speaker 2 (45:18):
Where are you going? What's going on there? Yeah?

Speaker 3 (45:21):
I'm not running. I would never join a running club.

Speaker 2 (45:24):
I'm curious about your daughter. So she's in high school,
ninth grade? And so is she still acting?

Speaker 1 (45:33):
It's spotty, spotty. Yeah, So here's my thing. So many
people ask me, and I'm sure there's people out here
out there that would want to know this, but so
many people ask me, especially when we were living in
Orange County. You know, they want their kids to be actors. Oh,
they want their kids to be celebrities. They want the
kids to be actors. Now it's influencers and they made
videos and stuff. But I mean ten fifteen years ago,

(45:55):
it was like they want agents and all the things
and they're driving them up and whatever.

Speaker 2 (45:59):
Huh.

Speaker 1 (46:00):
Now, my whole feeling always I had really hard time
giving advice ver So I don't know.

Speaker 2 (46:04):
Any like child talent agents right or young adult.

Speaker 1 (46:08):
But my whole thing was, I've been on so many
sets and I've seen so many kids on sets, like
I would never want my kids.

Speaker 2 (46:15):
Oh, one hundred percent to live that life, but someone
has to. I get that, you know someone's doing it.

Speaker 3 (46:20):
I think it one hundred percent has to come from
the kid and.

Speaker 1 (46:24):
Totally, but even still, it's like, you know, when you
realize what life on a set is like. And I
think that's why you see so many problems with child
actors that grow up, because if you don't have a
very strong emotional support system and you know they're going
to school, you know they can go awry.

Speaker 3 (46:44):
Yeah, And I think right now the only focus is
high school and really being a good student and following
her passion for whatever may come next.

Speaker 2 (46:58):
You know, we have time, That's the thing. And I.

Speaker 1 (47:00):
Oh, and I told these friends of mine, also, there
is such value because I did this.

Speaker 2 (47:04):
I remember being in high.

Speaker 1 (47:06):
School and wanting to get an agent and doing all
the things. Really oh yeah, But my mom was like, no,
what are we going to do? Go into Manhattan? Every
I grew up in Westchester. We're in Westchester, Chapaqua. Okay,
Max is from Dobb's Ferry.

Speaker 2 (47:20):
Oh it's very close.

Speaker 1 (47:21):
Yes, yeah, I no doubt, Sir, tell them, so that's
very it's very nice. So she was like, no, but
I will tell you that there was value in being
the lead in your school play.

Speaker 2 (47:36):
Lots of value.

Speaker 1 (47:37):
There's a value in honing those skills and having those
community experiences within your little acting community, doing regional theaters,
you know, all that kind of stuff. There's so much
value in that stuff. That and just the high school
experience and the college experience. In my opinion, not that
everyone has to go to college, but I think there

(47:57):
was a lot of value in all of that.

Speaker 2 (47:59):
Definitely that people should realize.

Speaker 3 (48:02):
There's no substitute for real life experience. Yeah, and that
doesn't happen on a set because that's not real life.
You know, real life happens when you're going to school
and you're you know, have friends, and you're playing sports
and you're involved in student government and you have you
become an interesting person.

Speaker 2 (48:20):
Yeah, it's true. You know.

Speaker 1 (48:22):
I went to Syracuse for musical theater and it was
like vocational school. It's like three hours of acting, hour
and a half of dance, music, theory, voice, and it
was great.

Speaker 2 (48:31):
I loved it.

Speaker 1 (48:32):
But in retrospect, I wish I had gone somewhere more
liberal arts.

Speaker 2 (48:37):
So that I could have had different experiences.

Speaker 1 (48:39):
I'm not sure you could have talked me into that
at the time, right. But interestingly, my daughter Kat who's
going to college next year, she had a choice between
she's a filmmaker and she's really good and she's very focused.
She's won awards like all the things. That's amazing, and
I love how passionate she is about it. But she
had an opportunit needed to go to a film school

(49:01):
that was more vocational, like very focused on filmmaking, textile film,
you know, filmmaking, or go to a more of a
liberal arts college where she still gets film exposure and experience,
but it's not but it's a little broader of an education.
And she chose that, So I'm so happy she chose
the broader education.

Speaker 3 (49:20):
Can you tell me where? Yeah?

Speaker 2 (49:22):
You going to Yale? Yeah? I mean, how do you
have to go to Yale?

Speaker 3 (49:26):
If you have an opportunity to go to Yale, you're
going to Yale?

Speaker 2 (49:29):
How Ye? But you know it was her decision to make.
I'm not that parent. Of course. My mother was like,
she's going to Yell. It's not my decision, it's hers,
is it. Yeah, I'm not like that. I all right.

Speaker 1 (49:45):
I've probably told this story before, but when I got
my twins at the kindergarten, they didn't get in where
I wanted them to go, and the other mothers were
so horrible and it was so competitive. It was the
worst thing ever. And I thought, I am never going
to suffer this again.

Speaker 2 (50:00):
I cried.

Speaker 1 (50:01):
It was terrible, right, the private school system for kindergarten, Okay,
I thought, I'm never.

Speaker 2 (50:08):
Doing this again.

Speaker 1 (50:08):
So when the kids got to high school age, my
first two, I said, listen, I'm going to get you
a private guidance counselor you have resources, or you can
use your guidance counselor at school.

Speaker 3 (50:18):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (50:18):
And if you want to work hard, you will have choices.
I will be your cheerleader, but I am not suffering this.

Speaker 2 (50:25):
This is up to you. This is your future.

Speaker 1 (50:29):
You can sound I'll be your sounding board like all
the things, but the work is.

Speaker 2 (50:32):
Up to you.

Speaker 1 (50:33):
You want choices, do well, you don't care, Okay, you'll
do so, you'll go.

Speaker 2 (50:36):
To a different school. They're all it'll be fine no
matter what. But this is your moment.

Speaker 1 (50:40):
And they've all sort of had their own path and
done really well.

Speaker 2 (50:44):
I mean, have I had to step in once or.

Speaker 1 (50:46):
Twice, maybe, but in general they've they've taken care of themselves.

Speaker 3 (50:51):
I love that, yeah, because it's when you give your
kid the opportunity to choose and then they're accountable to themselves.

Speaker 1 (51:00):
And the truth is, you know, so many parents just
want their kids to be in like an Ivy League
school or whatever it is, because it reflects on them.

Speaker 2 (51:08):
This doesn't reflect on me.

Speaker 1 (51:10):
I'm proud that, you know, she's worked hard and she
got into you know, my older three kids are all
at grade schools, but that's because of them, and I'm
really proud of them. But I just want them to
be happy and I want them to be successful. And
if you set your kid up and you know, I
don't know, write their essays for them or manufacture this

(51:31):
resume and they end up in a school they don't
belong at, they're not going to be successful.

Speaker 2 (51:35):
Oh, I totally agree with you.

Speaker 3 (51:38):
I mean you have to only you have to let
them make their own destiny because like if they end
up in a school like you said that they are
not ready for because you manufactured you know, tutors and
they are going to you know, fall short when they're
left to their own.

Speaker 1 (51:56):
I don't mind the tutor thing. I mind false false
doc events, you know what I mean? You know that
kind of thing, like literally, if someone's writing everything for
you and they're not your essays and you're not you know,
you didn't do this internship with Bupauh or it was
your uncle and you didn't really have to do any
you know what I mean. Like that kind of stuff,
then I think it's crazy.

Speaker 3 (52:16):
I totally agree, and you know, I agree with that.
We do not feel as parents that wherever Lily ends
up going to college is a reflection of us. What
I really want is I want her to be passionate
about something and pursue that path. Right, I don't care

(52:38):
where she goes to college. I care that she goes
to college.

Speaker 1 (52:43):
Yeah, I agree, And you want her to be friends
of like minded people. You want her to be because
that's the thing that people don't realize about school, whether
it's kindergarten, grade school, high school, they are with those well,
especially the lower grades, I have to say, because they
are with those kids for most of them day, those
kids and those teachers. So I would say, honestly, like

(53:03):
preschool through eighth grade is probably the most important selection
because you want them to be with other kids who
are great and successful and happy.

Speaker 2 (53:16):
Right, yeah, absolutely. So just back to cast just for
a second. I'm just curious.

Speaker 1 (53:23):
Is there any project that you wanted to cast and
you like they went in a different direction, Like it
was a dream.

Speaker 2 (53:30):
Cast that you didn't get to cast. No, you got
to do everything.

Speaker 3 (53:35):
Yeah, I mean I didn't. I wasn't an independent casting
director long enough to go up for a bunch of
jobs and not get them. I was an independent casting
director for two years in between the WB and then
I went to work at Fox. In that two years,
I was working with two other casting directors, and you know,

(53:59):
we would go for jobs, but we had we had
so many different shows that we were doing, and you know,
some were you know on NBC and somewhere on the CW,
and you know, they were just kind of like a
broad spectrum and and you know those were you know,
our chance to go on audition for the writers and
say like, Hi, this is what we think about your show.

Speaker 1 (54:19):
What was that like to be on the other side
of it sort of auditioning?

Speaker 3 (54:23):
I thought it was really cool because I knew I
had sort of this experience of being on the corporate
side already, so I was like, I know, what will
make this show successful, and like, let us try to
get that cast for you you know, I know the
network speak so like let go. So yeah, I mean

(54:44):
that that part was was you know, great experience. And
then when I went back to being an executive, I
you know, I had such a like a deeper understanding
of what the casting director is going through and when
they say like we've seen everybody, you know, like, am
I going to be the I can be the voice
of saying like have you looked here?

Speaker 2 (55:05):
Or should we try to thinking outside the box? Yeah?

Speaker 1 (55:08):
Because that you know, that's funny because I remember doing
there was a few shows I had a deal at
Fox at one time, and we were trying to cast
this role opposite me, and they couldn't find anyone and
couldn't get the show made because they and they had
their their list of who they wanted was. It was
like it might as well have been Top Cruise. Yeah, right,
it was just completely unrealistic. What do you think about

(55:31):
these days types? Because back in the day, there were
very like specific types, Like we were talking about the
breakdown we're looking for, you know, Antesesia, she's thirty two
to thirty six, she has blonde hair, she's.

Speaker 2 (55:45):
Waf like, you know, it was very very can't say
that anymore.

Speaker 1 (55:49):
But now you know, if you look at you know,
how they're casting even Disney movies, they're going completely against type.

Speaker 3 (55:57):
Right, I don't I think you know, types are antiquated, Okay,
you know everybody today is sort of a combination and
a recipe of like different upbringings and ethnicities, and like

(56:17):
it's just it's just not that that just does not
apply anymore.

Speaker 1 (56:22):
By the way, the book, it's really funny, it's really
like it's such a good read. I mean, anyone that
has ever been in this industry wants to be in
this industry or just you know, wants like a good chuckle.

Speaker 2 (56:34):
This is it's so fun. I can't get over the
title though. I'm telling you from the moment, how did.

Speaker 1 (56:40):
We get connected? Was it through Becca? Probably through Becca Tobin? Yeah, Yeah,
she's so great. She's the best I know.

Speaker 2 (56:48):
You know, it's really nice to speaking of Becca.

Speaker 1 (56:51):
Is you know back in the day we keep saying,
but years ago, when I was auditioning a lot and
you were a casting director, females were very competitive.

Speaker 2 (57:02):
We were not taught to be.

Speaker 1 (57:06):
Lifting each other up, and we were pitted against each other.
I think in a lot of ways that you may
have not have seen this on for other casting directors,
but for actors that was certainly true. And it's so
much different now and it's so nice.

Speaker 3 (57:19):
Yeah, it is really nice. There are really good, strong,
you know, friendships with other and and you know I
see it with Max like he's you know, people that
he used to go up, you know, for roles against,
you know, are some of his closest friends.

Speaker 1 (57:35):
Isn't that nice because you realize at the end of
the day there's room for everyone.

Speaker 3 (57:39):
There is there is, I really think. And also I'm
at a place in life where I'm like, you know it,
if it's meant to be, it will be yours. And
if you know you're knocking on a door and it
doesn't open, it's not your door, you know you got
to move on and it could be theirs.

Speaker 2 (57:59):
So you know, I I was just.

Speaker 3 (58:02):
In Austin with Mecca and she moderated a conversation with
me and we had so much fun. And I'm just like,
she's She's one that I'm like, she is a star
waiting to be discovered still, you know. I mean, she's
just she's just so talented and I just I want
her to have her like real moment. Yeah, you know

(58:27):
I love that.

Speaker 2 (58:28):
Well all right, so why did you decide to write this?

Speaker 3 (58:31):
So it was it was mid pandemic and I was
fresh out of a job and I wasn't on Zooms anymore,
and my entire career and identity was wrapped up in
test Sanchez the casting director, and I didn't know who
I was without that title. I was executive vice president
of casting and I when that title went away, I

(58:54):
had a identity crisis. I was like, who am I
without this job? And so I tried to recreate that
same job by but just somewhere else. And what I
you know, that was at a time where the industry
was changing a bunch, and I started to realize that
that was a unique moment in time and that job

(59:18):
doesn't exist in the same capacity that it did then.
And so I was like, well, what's next? Then? How
do I And the two questions I would get a
lot were how did you start in casting? And what
is it like to be married to Max? And so
I was like, well, you know, let me sort of

(59:39):
work out some of these things. Work out the trauma
of not having a job right and you know, being
such a folk I mean so laser focused career woman,
you know, that was my passion before I met Max,
before I had kids. I was like, I am married
to this job, right, this is the love of my life,
this industry and like being part of these things. And

(01:00:00):
when that went away, I was like, I have a
lot to process and I need to know who I
am outside of this identity as a boss. I was
a boss, and so I reintroduced myself to my children and.

Speaker 2 (01:00:13):
Said, hi am mom.

Speaker 3 (01:00:15):
Hi I'm mom, and I.

Speaker 2 (01:00:17):
Am gonna I may remember me. I'm going to boss
you the way I would.

Speaker 3 (01:00:20):
Pous my voice and it softened me a lot. You know,
I wasn't agenda driven. I was completely and I had
to get to know myself again. And I started writing
this and I really fell in love with casting and
like and sort of I got to go back and

(01:00:41):
relive some of those days and it was such a
great reminder of the creativity of the process and how
it really was an artistic passion for me of blending
the right people for the right for the right show
and the right script, and also kind of falling back
in love with my husband, who you know, we had

(01:01:03):
started in such a different place to where we write,
and we really came up together, Like we really built
a life together.

Speaker 2 (01:01:10):
It's hard to do. I mean, you grow together, you
grow apart.

Speaker 3 (01:01:13):
Right, And we grew together and we supported each other.
And also it was like an interesting shift in the
power dynamic of our relationship because he'd only known me
as an executive, right and he had only known me
as a boss because that's why I was we And
I was like, are you like still attracted to me,
you know, without this sort of like Arizona, Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:01:37):
Is this enough?

Speaker 3 (01:01:37):
Because I was like, I'm bored of me? Like are
you bored of me? Because like what do I bring
to the table? You know, like what am what am
I talking about?

Speaker 2 (01:01:46):
So how'd you get past that?

Speaker 3 (01:01:48):
Well? I started writing and I kind of went on
a manic run where I was like, I'm pitching this
on scripture show and I'm going to start a tequila
line and I'm going to do a table scape business,
and I mean I just was trying a million different
things and what's going to stick? And as I you know,
was kind of documenting some of that stuff, like this

(01:02:09):
book sort of began to evolve. And then at the
same time, my dad got sick and I write a
lot about that, and then he passed away. All within
a two year period. Two years all of this change happened,
and it was, you know, ultimately like I wouldn't change
where I am today even though those things were really hard.

(01:02:33):
And I started adapting this philosophy of sort of like
what is a painful favor? And I write about in
the book about this idea of like uncomfortable change sometimes
ultimately is protein packed and good for you even though
it feels so unkind and unfair at the time. Do

(01:02:54):
you end up being in my case, a softer, more rounded,
you know person, because I have empathy for people that
you know, I I it just it changed, It changed
me because you could go the other way and be bitter, right, yeah,
and I was for a really long time.

Speaker 2 (01:03:11):
I think that's normal.

Speaker 3 (01:03:12):
And I and I was caught up in the injustice
of it all and you know, getting to a place
of forgiveness. And as my husband so perfectly pointed out,
it's like, don't focus on the things that you don't
have anymore. Focus on the things that you loved about it,
and try to live in that space of how lucky

(01:03:35):
you were that you got to have this incredible like
career and meet all these people and have these relationships
and it was so fortifying for me as a person.

Speaker 2 (01:03:45):
And you know, those are still in me.

Speaker 3 (01:03:48):
They don't go away just because I don't have that title, Like,
those experiences are still mine. So those are the things
that I am trying to still trying to figure out,
like you know, now with this book and it becoming,
you know, a national bestseller, which I'm so proud of
that these experiences have ended up in a book. And

(01:04:11):
and also like that my that my kids have the
example of saying like, Oh, something really challenging and unfair
can happen. And my mom is resilient and she wrote
a book about it, and she you know, was in
a bad mood for a little while.

Speaker 2 (01:04:29):
But now she's don't worry. They don't remember.

Speaker 3 (01:04:32):
But my daughter just came to like one of my
book signings and she had not been to any because
I did most of it in New York. But I
had something out here and she was so she dressed
up and she came and she was like so proud.

Speaker 2 (01:04:45):
Of me, and like this time she was just you know,
talking to.

Speaker 3 (01:04:49):
Everybody, and I was like, oh, this is good, Like
she's getting to see the other side of this.

Speaker 2 (01:04:53):
Yes, Oh, I love that. So where do you go
from here?

Speaker 3 (01:04:59):
Well, I'm in the process of hopefully turning this into
a show.

Speaker 2 (01:05:07):
I love that. Can I play you? Yes? Okay, thank
you so much for being here. The book is great.
We've decided to go in a different direction.

Speaker 1 (01:05:15):
Tell everyone how to get the book and how to
find you on social Oh

Speaker 3 (01:05:18):
I am on Instagram at test Sanchez Greenfield and the
book is available where all books are sold.