April 3, 2025 • 39 mins
Legendary comedy writer Carol Leifer joins Heather to talk about winning an Emmy for HACKS, creating your own opportunities in the entertainment industry, working on SNL and Seinfeld, bombing on stage, why A.I. is NOT funny, BAD WEDDING SPEECHES and how to avoid them, how Carol met and fell for her wife Lori, and Carol's new book HOW TO WRITE A FUNNY SPEECH!!
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
Let's talk with Heather dubro starts now. I'm very excited
to have my guest today. She's a dear friend. I'm
going to read her biob because it's very impressive. Caro
Leaf is an Emmy, Golden Globe, Writers, Gilward and Producer
Guild Award winner for her work on Hacks Yay. She's
written for such shows at Seinfeld, Curb Your Enthusiasm, Saturday Live,
(00:24):
Modern Family, The Larry Sanders Show. She's a stand up comic.
She's brilliant, she's funny, she's an incredible mom and wife
and a friend and all the things.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Yeahs welcome Carolee. It is so great to be here.
I mean, we're friends, but I love being here in
a professional capacity.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
Yes, isn't that great?
Speaker 2 (00:42):
Love it? I love it. You're having like a sick year,
yeah rightyet really is very sick, Yes, in a great
sick because yeah, absolutely. I mean, you know, I've always
wanted to win an Emmy. I've been writing for forty
years and some people are like, really, and Emmy is
really important? Yes? Ye? And Emmy was really important.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
Yeah. So and it came by surprise because we won
for Hacks. But the Bear was kind of the odds
on to win. So I took a job writing on
the Emmys because I thought, well, I don't want to
sit there and lose. That's a bummer. I remember you
telling me the story.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
You're like, I'm just gonna take the job, so I'm
not in the audience.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
Yes, And then they announced this show and I go
out there in my protest sneakers, you know, ifb everything,
and my pantsy. But that was thrilling. And then season three,
the one that I worked on of hacks Is, has
swept every award, so it's been absolutely thrilling. And I yeah,
(01:42):
and I just wrote for the Oscars, which was my
eleventh time, and I love it more and more every time.
So yeah, it's been a nice a nice role to have,
you know.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
Isn't that cool. I was talking to Jackie Tone recently
and I was saying to her because I'm saying the
same thing. Do you like you're having a moment. Did
you think, like, being forty years into your career you'd
be having a moment?
Speaker 2 (02:06):
No, No, not at all. I Mean I really go
from job to job, and you know, sometimes there's so
many peaks and valleys and there have been valleys and
I say to Lorii, my wife, like I don't know
the next job where it's going to come from, and
then something happens or I go after something that I want,
which is really one of you know, my tips about
(02:30):
staying in the business for a long time. I am.
I also go after a lot of jobs.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
What do you What does that mean in like practical terms,
like you network, you meet up with people.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
Give you an example of Heather Okay, like Modern Family.
I was a big fan and then I went to
some event and Steve Levitan, who co created the show,
he was in them. Yes, so I have no qualms,
especially because I loved the show and I had ideas
going over to him and saying, I love the show,
you know, would you consider here some ideas from me?
(03:02):
And I always say consider because you know, it's so
different than can I write an episode or the show?
You know so? And I always say and if you
can't swing it, I totally understand, no harm, no foul, right,
And he was like, yeah, no, I'd loved your ideas.
Come in and that's how I got to work on
Modern Family. So that's what I mean about I don't
(03:23):
sit back. You know a lot of people think doing
this this long ecoast. You know, everybody comes to you
this job, that job. No, And as you know, when
to be successful in anything, you have to advocate for yourself.
Speaker 1 (03:39):
Were you always like that though, or does age and
wisdom and success give you more like balls?
Speaker 2 (03:43):
I guess I think age and wisdom definitely gives you
more balls. Like I wrote, my first writing job was
for SNL. I was only doing stand up. I got
plucked by Al Franken, who is one of the producers.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
And were you the first woman in that room?
Speaker 2 (03:59):
No? No, that year, I was the only woman that
you know, there was another woman that got like oh,
but I was the only woman on staff. And I
always felt, you know, I wasn't really in Lauren Michael's camp,
and I felt, well, I'm friends with the head writer
without frank and I'm okay. But now looking back, instead
(04:22):
of just like, nah, he didn't really you know, I'm
not really in the club, instead of kind of, well,
I should get to know him more and engage him
more and try to be a friendlier so that he'd
be friendlier to me. I look back now, I should
have done that, right.
Speaker 1 (04:38):
Yeah, So, but it's hard when you're younger like that,
especially in the entertainment industry, because you're always afraid, no
matter if you're a writer or an actor, whatever you are.
That like, if you make the wrong move, you're out.
Speaker 2 (04:49):
Yes, yes, but you know there is always a way
to do it, to be delicate, like I mentioned before,
asking people for a favor or an opportunity and giving
them out like and if you can't do it, I understand,
And then people feel so much less pressure because you know,
(05:11):
when you're asked for a favor, you're asked for a
lot of favors. It's the way somebody asks. And also
a lot of times I'll approach people about something and
they'll be like, you know, I really can't swing it.
I you know, I think you're great, but we don't
have an opening. Yeah. Sure, And then I'll see them
at events and everything is fine. It's no harm, no
favorite deal. Yes, that's so interesting.
Speaker 1 (05:32):
When did you start with stand up though?
Speaker 2 (05:35):
Yes, you were writing, Yes, I started. I was going
to school at suny Binghamton because I'm from New York
like you are, but I grew up on Long Island, Yes,
and I went to Sun Ranches. Yes, we used to
drive there to go to Dancers Restaurant for their Ruben sandwiches.
But that's a discussion for our next dinner anyway. And
(05:56):
I was in the theater department and Paul Reiser was
in my theater group, and he told me, you know, summers,
I go to the clubs and comedy clubs in Manhattan
and I go to open mic, and it's like, don't
you think you'd want to do that? Wouldn't that be fun?
I was like absolutely, but.
Speaker 1 (06:13):
That sounded fun to you. Yes, that is so funny
to me. And I think you know this story. But
there I had done this musical that was supposed to
go to Broadway and we had performed it at the
Kennedy Center or whatever, but we played a girl. It
was like punchline the musical. So it was me and
all these stand ups. If I never told you this story,
you never have. So so I was playing this girl
(06:35):
who moves to New York to become a comedian and
said to the producers maybe I should do stand up
to research it, and they were like, I did, yeah, terrified, terrified, terrified, Yes,
I mean I did it, but yeah, terrifying.
Speaker 2 (06:50):
So even after you did it, you weren't like, oh,
this wasn't that bad. I could keep doing this.
Speaker 1 (06:55):
I don't know. I think probably had I I mean
I did it like a handful of time. I performed
at Igby's and then in New York. Don't tell Mama, wow,
I got invited to be in the Toyota Comedy Festival.
I did like a little thing there. Oh but I
mean I had a really cute act, is what I'm
going to say. Yeah, I think it would have been
different had I, you know, honed skills and gone to
(07:18):
open mic nights and and really done that. But I
but I will say, I mean I am not a
stand up comic. That is a skill set that is
very I have respect for stand up. Well you're naked up.
Speaker 2 (07:33):
There you are. But you know, most people's greatest fear,
leading to my book, is talking in front of large
groups of people. Most comedian's greatest fear is not speaking
in front of large groups of people, because we love
the attention and the focus. And the first time I
went up on open mic night with Paul, I did great.
(07:55):
I mean I did five minutes and I killed and
I thought, oh my god, I'm going to be on
the tonight show next week and it's all all happening
blah blah. And it was the second time that I
went on that I bombed miserably, so bad that I
had invited some friends from college to see me, and
I had a little cassette recorder on the table so
I could tape my set. And you actually hear one
(08:16):
of my friends in the middle of it because I
was doing so bad. Go oh no, please tell me
you still have that I think I do. I think
I do. But that's what I mean. You have to
do it when I started every night for three years
without judging yourself to get good because there's always up
(08:40):
and down nights.
Speaker 1 (08:41):
See, now that I've taken classes at the ground, I
understand that I didn't then to me, I was so
terrified to be heckled or for something to go. But
when you do improv, similarly, it's like you understand. Sometimes
you go up and you suck, question your whole reason
(09:02):
for being right, Am I even talented? What am I
doing this?
Speaker 2 (09:06):
More?
Speaker 1 (09:06):
And then you go back up the next day and
you're like, oh, because I can get at this.
Speaker 2 (09:11):
So when you do improv, do you have the same
nerves that you had, you know, apprehension doing stand up
or it's a different game for you.
Speaker 1 (09:19):
I haven't performed, so I don't know, but I guess
getting up in front of the class is like performing. Yes, absolutely,
I don't. I'm not nervous to get up at all.
I'm the first to raise a hand and go up
and whatever.
Speaker 2 (09:33):
Well that's your personality.
Speaker 1 (09:34):
Yeah, but like I think sometimes like I blackout afterwards,
like I'm not really sure what happened.
Speaker 2 (09:41):
That's you know, that's the fun and the thrill of performing.
Speaker 1 (09:44):
Yeah, no, I love it. It's great. It's good to
expand yourself like that. So so how did you I'm
not sure I know this. How did you transition from
doing stand up to then writing?
Speaker 2 (09:54):
Well, like the S and L job, I was auditioning
to be a performer and Franken and the head writer
came to see a showcase and they were like, we
really like you. Do you want to write on the show?
And I was like hell yeah, yeah. And I was
living in California at the time. I moved to New
York and that's how I got my first job, my
(10:14):
first sitcom job. You know, when I did my first
audition night the EMC that night was Larry David who
put me through the audition, and then I went to
another club, the Comic Strip, which is still there in Manhattan,
and Jerry Seinfeld was the AMC and put me through.
So I literally go back to day one of show
business with those guys, and when I was living in
(10:36):
LA this is about ninety three. Seinfeld was this season five.
They called me together and I knew something was up
because you know, picking up a landline at that time
and getting two people one on the extensions at where
that was a big deal. I'm like, why aren't they
calling me together? And they're like, do you want to
write on Seinfeld? And I'd never written on a sitcom,
(11:00):
But my inexperience was really the advantage because they didn't
want people who'd written for sitcoms before because Larry David
thought they were all crap and he wanted to create
something new.
Speaker 1 (11:10):
So I was like, old style is lineline joke? Line
line joke, yeah, line joke yeah. Seinfeldt was different exactly, so.
Speaker 2 (11:17):
He wanted to keep the pool peer. So how lucky
was I that my inexperience led to this incredible job.
Speaker 1 (11:28):
Is it true that the character of Elaine is based
on you.
Speaker 2 (11:31):
Well, people say that because I dated Jerry in the
baths and we've stayed friends since then. But other than that,
that's where the comparison ends. You know. I like to
think I'm a good dancer. Yes, I don't push people
across the room yelling get out, but what was good
for me at the show? And I always encourage women
(11:52):
writers because we have a different filter on life. We
see the world in a different way. I mean, a
guy would not have pitched Lane thinks the Korean anacurists
are talking about her behind her back and Korean because
it happened to me. Elaine thinks there are skinny mirrors
at the department store.
Speaker 1 (12:08):
There are.
Speaker 2 (12:10):
Exactly, And Heather, every guy in that writer's room did
not know what a skinny mirror was. And I said,
I can go out here on the lot and pass
ten twenty women. Each person will know what a skinny
mirror is. Yes, yeah, So you know, using our experience
is really crucial to comedy writing, and good shows are
(12:32):
open to those ideas.
Speaker 1 (12:38):
AI AI Okay, so initial reaction as we hate AI. Right,
it's like and here we go. It's like when reality
television came on and we were like, this is the
hector and here we are fourteen years ago exactly. So okay,
so understanding that AI horrible. Whatever, I have personally found
(13:01):
now ways to use AI in my life that I
think is really interesting and helpful.
Speaker 2 (13:06):
What do you use it mostly for?
Speaker 1 (13:08):
For research on travel? Super helpful with that, Yes, ways
of you know, sometimes I will use it for dealing
with the kids.
Speaker 2 (13:20):
Hmmm, Like give me an example.
Speaker 1 (13:23):
Like, for example, like, I didn't want to say the
wrong thing to my daughter about she's like really nervous
about getting into college the specific ones. And I think
every time I say something, it does not come out right.
And so I put an if you have a sensitive
child applying for college, how might one a pro Wow? Yeah,
And I'm not saying it was exactly what I said,
(13:45):
but it gave me a few takeaway yeah that I
could walk away with.
Speaker 2 (13:50):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (13:50):
Now having said that, I'm a creative person, you're a
creative person. Liz Astrov and I talk about this a lot.
You know, we need our traumas.
Speaker 2 (13:58):
For the funest.
Speaker 1 (13:59):
Yes, what do you think about AI and what it's
doing to writers?
Speaker 2 (14:05):
And yeah?
Speaker 1 (14:06):
Everything?
Speaker 2 (14:06):
Well, the good news is AI is great for your example,
you know, you want to write a pamphlet about exzema,
you're a dermatol. Great, knock yourself out, but scintillated. But
AI is not funny, right, Like for example, with my
(14:27):
how to write a Funny speech book, a friend of mine,
her daughter was getting married. I know her, I don't
know her daughter at all, So we did what I
usually do with helping someone the speech. Got together for dinner.
I said, tell me some stories about your daughter from
childhood from now. And it's very easy for a mom
(14:47):
to tell some interesting stories about their kid. So we
took the bullet points of that and I put together
a speech for her. I said, this is going to
be fun I said, I'm going to take the bullet
points that you gave me about your daughter and put
it into AI. And it was a disaster. Really yeah,
I mean, just even from the beginning, you know esteem,
(15:11):
you know, welcome esteemed guests like who who.
Speaker 1 (15:15):
Talks my mother talks like that? By the way, my
mother esteemed guests, she already made like a stranger darling,
like he talks like that?
Speaker 2 (15:24):
Yeah, And not only there was not funny, the jokes
were pathetic, but I mean facts wrong, where if she
went up and she told this speech, it would have
been an absolute off the right off the bat. It
was horrible.
Speaker 1 (15:38):
There's also a thing I read about called AI amnesia.
I think it's called what is it? Gets it wrong?
Actually incorrect?
Speaker 2 (15:46):
Yes, yes, And especially with writing a speech, it's all
about the personal. The personal is the goal gold Like,
you're the only person who has the relationship with that person,
so that's unique. So you've got to expound on that
because that's what makes a speech terrific, when you talk
about your personal relationship that only you have with whoever's celebrating.
Speaker 1 (16:11):
Yeah, the book is sorry, that's very interesting. With the
AI thing, the book is great. It's called how to
write a funny speech for a wedding, bar mitzvah, graduation,
at every other event you didn't want to go to
in the first place. It's so funny you did it
with Rick Mitchell I did. It's so so good, And
what you're going to love about it is it gives
you every piece of practical information. And also at the
(16:31):
end there's like this mad libs where you can literally
just plug and fill, fill in the blank and get
it done. But I also thought they were really like,
I am very comfortable, as you know, speaking of course
in front of a crowd. But what I picked up
some pearls in the book was, you know when you're
(16:52):
sometimes I'm asked to do something spontaneously, but I want to.
I want to talk about that for a seconds. I really
want to. I'm gonna we're not going to give away
the book. Everyone needs to buy it. And I really
do believe that this is a book everyone should have
in their home.
Speaker 2 (17:06):
They should And the forward by Carol Burnett.
Speaker 1 (17:09):
I mean, you can't get better than that.
Speaker 2 (17:11):
Yeah, and Rick wrote for The Ellen Show for five
years and won five Emmys.
Speaker 1 (17:16):
Yeah, it's like, it's really helpful about how to pivot
and how to funny in and how to break down
a joke and really dial into it. All of that
is really great. But I'm curious what happens if someone
asks you to do something spontaneously.
Speaker 2 (17:33):
Well, here's the thing. I would feel like, when you
were asked to speak spontaneously at something, this person knew
that you were going to be good right this. You know,
you're not going to ask the clunker in the audience to, hey,
come on up, you know, and speak so right off
the bat, I think the host, whoever it is, the
(17:55):
celebrating person, is going to ask someone who they know
is going to be good. Right. I hate to say
this because you know weddings events like this, it's fun
to drink, but if somebody asks you to speak spontaneously
and you're two or three in.
Speaker 1 (18:10):
Don't do it.
Speaker 2 (18:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:12):
Yeah, trust me, I saw you. You put it in
all caps, which was really really, really funny, But it's true.
Liquid courage is fine, yeah, but you have to be careful.
Speaker 2 (18:21):
You do have a drink, sure, have one to loosen
the joints. But then people are like, oh, I feel good,
I'll have two more or seven more. Don't do it
because then you get up there and you you're comfortable,
but everybody else is incredibly uncomfortable at how hammered you are.
Speaker 1 (18:38):
Yeah, and I think one of the best pieces of
advice is keep it short.
Speaker 2 (18:42):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (18:42):
Long toests are the worst.
Speaker 2 (18:45):
Yeah, five minutes and under and that's the sweet spot. Yeah.
And write write it down yeah yeah, yeah, you know.
I never go up there with no notes. I mean,
and I've been doing that a long time. Stand up,
no stand up by I know my ass. Okay, yeah. Yeah,
but making a speech, I definitely have some notes. I
(19:07):
like to write bullet points because you know, you know,
you want to engage the audience. That's another bummer at
these events when people read and they're either looking down
at their phone, they don't look up at the audience once,
and you feel like it's a school book report. Right.
You got to be in the moment, and that's It's
another thing we encourage. If the caterer drops, you know,
(19:28):
a platter of rick ATONI, it's okay to comment on
that because everybody is aware of that, right. Or if
you lose your place, it's okay to say, eh, you
know what, I got to look at my No, it's
a lost my place. People understand that, you know, the
bar is set pretty low, which we wanted people to feel.
Make them comfortable about that. You know a lot of
(19:49):
people in the audience are like, glad, it's not me, right, yeah, Glad,
it's Eddie.
Speaker 1 (19:55):
So I just wonder if because things you know on
TikTok and stuff, they go viral when you see like
is really funny. Yeah, some people that get up a
very funny speeches.
Speaker 2 (20:03):
Uh huh.
Speaker 1 (20:04):
I think some people they just they think they're going
to do that. But if that's not you, yeah, don't
do that.
Speaker 2 (20:10):
No. And that's what we also added in the book.
For every event, we wrote a bunch of jokes that
people readers are free to steal. Yeah, and you see
a joke you like, take it. That's what it's there for.
That's worth your fifteen dollars for this book. So yeah,
but you don't have to get up there and be
Jerry Seinfeld. You know, a little bit of humor is
(20:34):
always good, but a lot of that can come from
your personal stories. You know. I know someone who is
talking about his mom, I think at a retirement party,
and he just told this story about he asked for
some shredded wheat, so the mom went to the supermarket
and she brought home three boxes because she was like,
I didn't know which one you wanted. So it not
(20:56):
only is a cute story about the mom, but it
shows what a sweet person she is she was to
him growing up. So that's why I always like to
ask people tell me one or two stories that are
dear to you about this person, and you can usually
craft that and we show you step by step in
the book, the beginning, middle, and end, how how to
(21:16):
do it? And it's really not.
Speaker 1 (21:18):
That hard, No, it's you guys break it down really
really well. I also feel like if you don't feel
like you're the right person for the toast, you could
also say no, yes, yes, I'm not comfortable doing it.
Speaker 2 (21:32):
Right. See, if somebody asked you I'd like you to
make a speech, would you consider it? And if you say,
you know, and if you can't swing it, no harm,
no foul.
Speaker 1 (21:40):
Yeah, don't do it.
Speaker 2 (21:41):
Yeah, yeah exactly because some people are too petrified it'll
just run their run their day. You know. I asked
Larry David to speak at Laurie in my wedding, which
was ten years ago now, and he was like, you know, okay,
I love you, but you know it's going to ruin
my golf game that day. Okay, but you get it.
Speaker 1 (22:03):
You want them to come and be a guest to
have and not be worried about it. Right, people, you
always used to ask me to sing at their weddings,
Oh wow and so and I was happy to do it. Yeah,
but like at one point, like for my really close friends,
but at one point it was like, yeah, I don't
want to because then you're just you're heightened the entire
time until you're done.
Speaker 2 (22:24):
Yeah, and that's a bad feeling to have.
Speaker 1 (22:26):
And the last wedding I sang out was Tamras.
Speaker 2 (22:29):
Oh wow, Yeah, that's great. Do you remember what you say?
Speaker 1 (22:32):
I sang coum rain or come shine. But I sang
during the ceremony, not during It was part of like
instead of doing a reading like I did that they
couldn't clear the songs. They didn't show it. But I
didn't care because I did it because she asked me to,
not because I was trying to like perform. Yes, yeah,
you know that's sweet, but still a lot of anxiety.
Speaker 2 (22:51):
Yeah, that's another thing you know we touch on in
the book. When you throw an event, you also have
some responsibility in terms of quieting the room down, you know,
making a nice welcome matt for your speakers. So that's
important to quiet the room down, have an order of
(23:12):
the speeches. You know, whoever you know is going to
be best should be last, right. That's why we always, yeah,
to keep it short because there are so many other
speakers usually at an event like that. Another thing we
tell people that we Ck and I have both been
in events because someone Heather gives an amazing speech and
(23:32):
you're just telling, as my people say, you know, just wondering,
like this was one of the best speeches I've ever seen.
And then they say thank you, you give a nice toast,
and they just wander back to their seat. It's like,
go over to the person the couple, Yeah, hug them,
you shake there and whatever, you know, give them a
(23:54):
kiss on the cheek, whatever. But do something like that,
because it's very odd when someone gives the speech like
that and okay, see you at the salad bar.
Speaker 1 (24:03):
Right, and it's hard to follow that. Yes, yes, any
tips for people that follow the really good speech.
Speaker 2 (24:11):
Well that look, I know that as a comedian when
I have to follow somebody who just rocked the house, right,
you just have to take the expectations down. Your speech
is not going to be their speech, maybe they killed whatever.
What you have to say. You got to go in
feeling what I have to say is valuable, and what
I have to say is not going to be what
(24:32):
this other person said, because I have my own relationship
with them. So you know, it happens.
Speaker 1 (24:43):
At our wedding, Terry and I gave really good speeches.
Oh nice, and my dad gave the weirdest speech ever.
Speaker 2 (24:54):
Oh, my parents so.
Speaker 1 (24:56):
Weird at our wedding. Really, yeah, my mom is like
very nineteen fifties, right. She literally didn't speak. She just
stood there and held her hands a certain way and
smiled while my dad spoke, which I thought was super weird,
very her. Yeah, so god forbid you should talk and
say something. No, it was all like curated, right, And
what did your dad say? My dad gave the weirdest speech.
(25:18):
And now my dad was someone who was very used
to speaking in front of people. He was a high
level executive and a former attorney and was comfortable speaking
in front of people. It was the weirdest speech ever.
He started talking and he was talking about how my
mom and I put the wedding together and how like
(25:39):
about how some of the venues wanted us to pre
ask the guests if they wanted chicken beef for fish,
which side story is super weird because I had never
heard of that at that time.
Speaker 2 (25:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:56):
I think it's more commonplace now to be asked your
selection in advance. It's easier they know what they're getting.
But at the time, like to my mother, what a
faux paw to ask your I mean, there should just
be a choice. If you're at a restaurant. Do you
understand how expensive that is and how much they have
to crap and all the things. And I remember when
(26:17):
we were looking at the response cards, because of course
missus John Strong had to do the invitations. There was
nothing electronic there. It had to be this. You had
to be that very hard card stock with gold egg
you know, didn't look like me at all, but it
didn't matter. This is what she needed. And when we
went to some other places just to look at invitations,
(26:39):
some of the response cards had the choice. Some had
a photo of a cow. And my mom was dying.
So I'm sure at this and like we can laugh
about this. This is not a toast story.
Speaker 2 (26:55):
It's kind of like a story for home, like for
you guys to talk about.
Speaker 1 (26:59):
So obnoxious, that's the first problem. And I mean, I
don't even know there's nothing funny in there anyway, my dad,
that's what he was talking about, and just went on
and on. Oh, Terry and I were looking at each
other like what is he yeah talking about?
Speaker 2 (27:17):
Could you get past it? It didn't put a damper,
I'm hoping.
Speaker 1 (27:21):
No, No, it was fine. It was just not a
good speech. There was nothing like sweet about me or
how we met or I mean just yeah, it was
very it was very nineteen fifty.
Speaker 2 (27:32):
It was very impersonal. I went to a wedding recently.
Father of the boy got up. It was like a
job fair. He just went through his daughter's resume. She went,
she graduated kum lauda from Yale, then went on to
a weird yeah. And when it becomes the talk of
the valet parking line of people gone. Kids to believe
(27:55):
that speech, Oh my god, I heard every job she's
ever had, and you know that's not good. You didn't
want people to leave in saying boy. The people that
got up to speak were so fantastic and I had
the best time. You're not like disson on the speech giver.
Speaker 1 (28:11):
And also, a wedding is different than a funeral. It's
different than a retirement party. I think at a retirement
party you expect more people to speak because where you're
honoring this one person and it's a last hurrah.
Speaker 2 (28:24):
Yes, yes, that's true. It is very good too. Really
extol that person because you know this is it. They're retiring, right.
Speaker 1 (28:35):
There's no more like pat on the back at the
board meeting or so laying it on laying yeah, lay
it on thick, yeah on big. But with weddings, you know,
I also feel like you should limit how many people
are speaking when someone pop up after the speeches were done.
So my parent, my dad spoke, Terry and I spoke,
and his best man and that was it. Everyone else spoke.
(28:58):
I had an opportunity to speak the night before the rehearsal. Yes,
good idea, which I think is like a better time
for like silly stars wedding. Everyone wants to dance and eat. Yes,
you don't want to sit there, and most of people
have been sitting through the ceremony for a long time.
Speaker 2 (29:14):
And then waiting or waiting to eat. The speeches go
before you eat, and you're just sitting there with your
stomach growling like can you please wrap this up? I
know I want my chicken A lucky.
Speaker 1 (29:27):
We call it gig chicken. When I used to have
my band, yeah, we'd be like, oh what are we
having for dinner? Oh they're serving us the gig chicken. Okay, cool.
Speaker 2 (29:35):
But that's the thing too, you know, I always like
you and Terry spoke to each other during a wedding.
When couples do that. I don't enjoy it when couples
get married and they don't say something to each other,
a little speech to each other, because that always brings
you closer to the couple of just knowing how they
(29:56):
feel about each other.
Speaker 1 (29:57):
And it's different than the vows. Yes, because your vowels
are very specific. He pour all over them. By the way,
you could use the book for the vows too. To
be honest, I mean not that you need to throw
jokes in, but it's cute. Yeah, when you can like funny,
you know, say something cute and funny to each other.
But I mean we we didn't write vows like that.
(30:17):
Terry was not comfortable at the time doing something like that.
He didn't speeches.
Speaker 2 (30:23):
Yeah, he was not.
Speaker 1 (30:24):
He's a different animal.
Speaker 2 (30:25):
Yeah, he's uh yeah, he's out there now when we
go out. He is mister fun, mister party. He is.
Speaker 1 (30:30):
I think privately he's always been that way. But I
think having a television career has emboldened him too. And
doing so much press. I mean, honestly, Caroly, you wouldn't die.
But when he so, he wrote we've written three books together.
He wrote one before that called the acne Cure, and
he went on like a little book tour and I
was with him, actress right right, and I'm like his mamager,
(30:52):
stage mom, wife, wife, ager or whatever, and I'm standing
along the side. And I remember he was on like
a CBS talk show. I can't what it was. We're
in New York, We're doing this thing. He looked so
miserable and.
Speaker 2 (31:04):
You had seen his face.
Speaker 1 (31:05):
Yeah, like it was like someone was torturing him, pure terror, error, torture.
Couldn't answer a question. Now, yeah, now he could totally
do it. But I remember when we were, you know,
giving those speeches to each other. He was really he
was sweet and good, but he wasn't his normal big
(31:26):
yes andality.
Speaker 2 (31:27):
Yes. And you know people always like how you met stories, Yes,
because that's really that's what we told him. Perfect perfect, perfect. Actually,
at our wedding, my wedding Lourie, I did give her
the best joke of the night.
Speaker 1 (31:42):
Would you give her?
Speaker 2 (31:43):
Well, she wasn't sure how to start a speech, so
during the wedding when she spoke to me during the ceremony,
I gave her Carol, You're the most wonderful, smart, beautiful,
giving person. I've ever met. And she pulled and she
ripped up the paper and said, well enough with your
draft that yeah she got. Yeah, she brought down the
(32:10):
house with that one. So, hey, people, take that one.
It's already been done.
Speaker 1 (32:15):
Well I sort of did something similar. Oh really, yeah,
because Terry and I met on a blind date.
Speaker 2 (32:19):
Oh I think I heard this story at dinner. Tell
me again.
Speaker 1 (32:22):
Okay, we met on a blind date. But what people
didn't know is that I had already seen a photo
of him. So he was in the Orange County like register.
It was a magazine, you see something, Top Bachelors.
Speaker 2 (32:38):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (32:38):
So there was a blurb and for some reason they
had chosen him for the picture, right, So there was
blurbs about different people.
Speaker 2 (32:45):
There was like a.
Speaker 1 (32:46):
Tall standing picture and my friend had given it to
me and I'd saved it and I was in my
file of fax folded yes, and I'm a hard coffee girl,
so it was folded in by file ax, and I
was trying to think about what to do for toast,
and I really I don't remember what I did at
the rehearsal dinner, but it was good, and so I
was like, how do I follow that up? And so
I called my girlfriend, I go, can you go to
(33:08):
my apartment and grab this little piece of paper in
my file? Effects she was like sure. So I read it,
bought brought it, and I said that I said, people
don't know I actually saw him beforehand. So I opened
it up and I showed it and I read it.
Speaker 2 (33:21):
Oh that's so great.
Speaker 1 (33:23):
It's just like a little blur. But it was like
I would do our first my perfect date is And
it was like we sort of did that, but like
not as high life, like we flew coach. It was
like take a private jet to sound like we went coach.
So I read the whole thing, and then at the end,
I said, well, I just want ever to know he's
off the market now, he's not a batchel.
Speaker 2 (33:41):
I don't want to read it. Oh that's so great. It
was good. Oh my god, that's so great.
Speaker 1 (33:45):
It was a good speech.
Speaker 2 (33:46):
I remember at dinner we talked about we have been together.
You've been with Terry since my twenty eight years yes,
and same year me and Laurie.
Speaker 1 (33:55):
How did you and Laurie meet?
Speaker 2 (33:57):
Good question, Well, you were married.
Speaker 1 (34:01):
I was married to a man, yes, but fish girl.
Speaker 2 (34:07):
But I was divorced already for six years. No, wait
a minute, nine years, yeah, okay, And I just felt
like I want to have an affair with a woman.
That's what, Yeah, that's in my filo facts. And I
went to this project Angel food charity men with gay
(34:28):
friends of mine couple, and I saw Laurie across the table.
She was actually with another woman, but I was so
taken with her. She was she is so pretty. And
I just said to my friend, you know what, and
I talked to her a little bit. I said to
my friend, you know, I think I have a little
crush on Laurie Wolf. And he said, let me try
(34:48):
to you know, let me try to hook you up
through golf, which of course you know lesbians. And we
met at witsit a golf course, and she's quite a golfer,
she is she are you? I was starting, I was
starting to play. Larry David actually for my fortieth birthday,
(35:09):
gave me golf lessons. I guess he knew before me
that I was a lesbian. So anyway, so we meet
it with's it and then we go to Arts Delhi
afterwards to get a bite and we were talking and
I was saying how I was single, kind of leading
towards something happening. She made a hard left. She was like,
(35:30):
I work with so many guys at my office I
could set you up with. And I'm like, oh my god,
she's not getting it. She's not getting it. So I
went back to my friend after that date and I
told him the story and he said, yeah, I spoke
to her, and you know, I told her that you
were sort of interested in her, and Laurie said, well,
I'm not going to be some experiment for a straight woman.
(35:50):
I get that, yes, yeah. But then a couple months
later she called me. I was writing at Larry Sanders,
I remember this, and she was like, I have a
ticket tonight to NEXTRA ticket to the Beverly Hills Policeman's Ball.
You know, she was working for Astre Company. Yes, do
you have a dress?
Speaker 1 (36:11):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (36:11):
She was like, do you want to go? And we
went and then you know, a couple of glasses of wine,
and I remember she was going over to the silent
auction table and going, oh, why, oh, that'd be fun,
you know, and I was like, oh, something, the wheels
are kind of turning here. And from that day on
we've been together. That night of drunk yes, there it is.
(36:33):
Back up the U haul, back up the super U.
I'm with a woman. Now.
Speaker 1 (36:38):
Was that hard for you to tell your friends and
your ex and or did you just.
Speaker 2 (36:43):
Feel like, yeah, I wasn't at that. You know, my
ex and I haven't really been connected since we divorced.
It's so funny that people sometimes go over me and
they say, oh, I know your ex husband. It's like, great,
I don't know him anymore, like there's no connection. But
it was hard to tell my parents. You know, I
(37:04):
waited a year and they had no idea. They had
no idea. It's funny, I'll tell you in retrospect. But
I went home and I thought it was going to
be like I was going to be the rock and
they were going to fall apart. The opposite happened, Heather.
I was really emotional my parents. My mother was like
love is a gift from God, no exactly. And I
(37:27):
was crying actually, and I my father's like, why are
you crying, Carol? And I said, because I thought you'd
be disappointed. And my father said, I'll tell you when
I was disappointed when you married that gentile, typical Jewish father, right, Yeah,
it was like, yeah, you from Brentwood. It was like,
(37:47):
let's break out the Man of Chevins. That's all there
is a horror. We're gonna have a hoop of the time. Yeah,
it's gonna be great. But you know, it's interesting. I
had two months before that I had to have I
had a fib ro atinoma in one of my breasts
and I had to have it out. I went to
New York because I was still in the head of
like New York doctors. Yeah, and Laurie came with me,
(38:10):
and I told my parents, oh, my friend is coming.
And we went to my house on Long Island and
had lunch one day before the surgery, and we took
a walk around the block, my parents and me and Laurie.
And after I came out to my parents, my mom
said to me, you know, I knew it. And I said,
how did you know? She said, when you and Laurie
were walking ahead of us. I said to Seymour, they're together.
(38:33):
The body language was just something you cannot ignore.
Speaker 1 (38:37):
Moms.
Speaker 2 (38:37):
No, yes, moms, no, they do great.
Speaker 1 (38:41):
Well, you got a good one. You guys are the
greatest couples. Oh fabulous, You're fabulous. I could literally talk
to you for hours.
Speaker 2 (38:48):
And we do it our dinners. We know those places down.
Speaker 1 (38:51):
We closed the joint step and we're going to make
a new Oh yes, we're going to make a dinner. Absolutely,
How to write a funny speech, You guys, this book
is amazing. I'm telling you everyone needs us. I'm gonna
post a link fantast everyone.
Speaker 2 (39:02):
And this is a good gift test because speech season
is coming up.
Speaker 1 (39:07):
Graduations, Mother's Day and come on, all right, here we go,
hick it up. Do it. Tell everyone how to find
you on social.
Speaker 2 (39:16):
I'm at Carol Leifer. It's very easy, Carol l E
I f E R there it is. Yeah, don't forget it.
Let's talk with Heather dubro starts now. I'm very excited
to have my guest today. She's a dear friend. I'm
going to read her biob because it's very impressive. Caro
Leaf is an Emmy, Golden Globe, Writers, Gilward and Producer
Guild Award winner for her work on Hacks Yay. She's
written for such shows at Seinfeld, Curb Your Enthusiasm, Saturday Live,
(00:24):
Modern Family, The Larry Sanders Show. She's a stand up comic.
She's brilliant, she's funny, she's an incredible mom and wife
and a friend and all the things.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Yeahs welcome Carolee. It is so great to be here.
I mean, we're friends, but I love being here in
a professional capacity.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
Yes, isn't that great?
Speaker 2 (00:42):
Love it? I love it. You're having like a sick year,
yeah rightyet really is very sick, Yes, in a great
sick because yeah, absolutely. I mean, you know, I've always
wanted to win an Emmy. I've been writing for forty
years and some people are like, really, and Emmy is
really important? Yes? Ye? And Emmy was really important.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
Yeah. So and it came by surprise because we won
for Hacks. But the Bear was kind of the odds
on to win. So I took a job writing on
the Emmys because I thought, well, I don't want to
sit there and lose. That's a bummer. I remember you
telling me the story.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
You're like, I'm just gonna take the job, so I'm
not in the audience.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
Yes, And then they announced this show and I go
out there in my protest sneakers, you know, ifb everything,
and my pantsy. But that was thrilling. And then season three,
the one that I worked on of hacks Is, has
swept every award, so it's been absolutely thrilling. And I yeah,
(01:42):
and I just wrote for the Oscars, which was my
eleventh time, and I love it more and more every time.
So yeah, it's been a nice a nice role to have,
you know.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
Isn't that cool. I was talking to Jackie Tone recently
and I was saying to her because I'm saying the
same thing. Do you like you're having a moment. Did
you think, like, being forty years into your career you'd
be having a moment?
Speaker 2 (02:06):
No, No, not at all. I Mean I really go
from job to job, and you know, sometimes there's so
many peaks and valleys and there have been valleys and
I say to Lorii, my wife, like I don't know
the next job where it's going to come from, and
then something happens or I go after something that I want,
which is really one of you know, my tips about
(02:30):
staying in the business for a long time. I am.
I also go after a lot of jobs.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
What do you What does that mean in like practical terms,
like you network, you meet up with people.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
Give you an example of Heather Okay, like Modern Family.
I was a big fan and then I went to
some event and Steve Levitan, who co created the show,
he was in them. Yes, so I have no qualms,
especially because I loved the show and I had ideas
going over to him and saying, I love the show,
you know, would you consider here some ideas from me?
(03:02):
And I always say consider because you know, it's so
different than can I write an episode or the show?
You know so? And I always say and if you
can't swing it, I totally understand, no harm, no foul, right,
And he was like, yeah, no, I'd loved your ideas.
Come in and that's how I got to work on
Modern Family. So that's what I mean about I don't
(03:23):
sit back. You know a lot of people think doing
this this long ecoast. You know, everybody comes to you
this job, that job. No, And as you know, when
to be successful in anything, you have to advocate for yourself.
Speaker 1 (03:39):
Were you always like that though, or does age and
wisdom and success give you more like balls?
Speaker 2 (03:43):
I guess I think age and wisdom definitely gives you
more balls. Like I wrote, my first writing job was
for SNL. I was only doing stand up. I got
plucked by Al Franken, who is one of the producers.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
And were you the first woman in that room?
Speaker 2 (03:59):
No? No, that year, I was the only woman that
you know, there was another woman that got like oh,
but I was the only woman on staff. And I
always felt, you know, I wasn't really in Lauren Michael's camp,
and I felt, well, I'm friends with the head writer
without frank and I'm okay. But now looking back, instead
(04:22):
of just like, nah, he didn't really you know, I'm
not really in the club, instead of kind of, well,
I should get to know him more and engage him
more and try to be a friendlier so that he'd
be friendlier to me. I look back now, I should
have done that, right.
Speaker 1 (04:38):
Yeah, So, but it's hard when you're younger like that,
especially in the entertainment industry, because you're always afraid, no
matter if you're a writer or an actor, whatever you are.
That like, if you make the wrong move, you're out.
Speaker 2 (04:49):
Yes, yes, but you know there is always a way
to do it, to be delicate, like I mentioned before,
asking people for a favor or an opportunity and giving
them out like and if you can't do it, I understand,
And then people feel so much less pressure because you know,
(05:11):
when you're asked for a favor, you're asked for a
lot of favors. It's the way somebody asks. And also
a lot of times I'll approach people about something and
they'll be like, you know, I really can't swing it.
I you know, I think you're great, but we don't
have an opening. Yeah. Sure, And then I'll see them
at events and everything is fine. It's no harm, no
favorite deal. Yes, that's so interesting.
Speaker 1 (05:32):
When did you start with stand up though?
Speaker 2 (05:35):
Yes, you were writing, Yes, I started. I was going
to school at suny Binghamton because I'm from New York
like you are, but I grew up on Long Island, Yes,
and I went to Sun Ranches. Yes, we used to
drive there to go to Dancers Restaurant for their Ruben sandwiches.
But that's a discussion for our next dinner anyway. And
(05:56):
I was in the theater department and Paul Reiser was
in my theater group, and he told me, you know, summers,
I go to the clubs and comedy clubs in Manhattan
and I go to open mic, and it's like, don't
you think you'd want to do that? Wouldn't that be fun?
I was like absolutely, but.
Speaker 1 (06:13):
That sounded fun to you. Yes, that is so funny
to me. And I think you know this story. But
there I had done this musical that was supposed to
go to Broadway and we had performed it at the
Kennedy Center or whatever, but we played a girl. It
was like punchline the musical. So it was me and
all these stand ups. If I never told you this story,
you never have. So so I was playing this girl
(06:35):
who moves to New York to become a comedian and
said to the producers maybe I should do stand up
to research it, and they were like, I did, yeah, terrified, terrified, terrified, Yes,
I mean I did it, but yeah, terrifying.
Speaker 2 (06:50):
So even after you did it, you weren't like, oh,
this wasn't that bad. I could keep doing this.
Speaker 1 (06:55):
I don't know. I think probably had I I mean
I did it like a handful of time. I performed
at Igby's and then in New York. Don't tell Mama, wow,
I got invited to be in the Toyota Comedy Festival.
I did like a little thing there. Oh but I
mean I had a really cute act, is what I'm
going to say. Yeah, I think it would have been
different had I, you know, honed skills and gone to
(07:18):
open mic nights and and really done that. But I
but I will say, I mean I am not a
stand up comic. That is a skill set that is
very I have respect for stand up. Well you're naked up.
Speaker 2 (07:33):
There you are. But you know, most people's greatest fear,
leading to my book, is talking in front of large
groups of people. Most comedian's greatest fear is not speaking
in front of large groups of people, because we love
the attention and the focus. And the first time I
went up on open mic night with Paul, I did great.
(07:55):
I mean I did five minutes and I killed and
I thought, oh my god, I'm going to be on
the tonight show next week and it's all all happening
blah blah. And it was the second time that I
went on that I bombed miserably, so bad that I
had invited some friends from college to see me, and
I had a little cassette recorder on the table so
I could tape my set. And you actually hear one
(08:16):
of my friends in the middle of it because I
was doing so bad. Go oh no, please tell me
you still have that I think I do. I think
I do. But that's what I mean. You have to
do it when I started every night for three years
without judging yourself to get good because there's always up
(08:40):
and down nights.
Speaker 1 (08:41):
See, now that I've taken classes at the ground, I
understand that I didn't then to me, I was so
terrified to be heckled or for something to go. But
when you do improv, similarly, it's like you understand. Sometimes
you go up and you suck, question your whole reason
(09:02):
for being right, Am I even talented? What am I
doing this?
Speaker 2 (09:06):
More?
Speaker 1 (09:06):
And then you go back up the next day and
you're like, oh, because I can get at this.
Speaker 2 (09:11):
So when you do improv, do you have the same
nerves that you had, you know, apprehension doing stand up
or it's a different game for you.
Speaker 1 (09:19):
I haven't performed, so I don't know, but I guess
getting up in front of the class is like performing. Yes, absolutely,
I don't. I'm not nervous to get up at all.
I'm the first to raise a hand and go up
and whatever.
Speaker 2 (09:33):
Well that's your personality.
Speaker 1 (09:34):
Yeah, but like I think sometimes like I blackout afterwards,
like I'm not really sure what happened.
Speaker 2 (09:41):
That's you know, that's the fun and the thrill of performing.
Speaker 1 (09:44):
Yeah, no, I love it. It's great. It's good to
expand yourself like that. So so how did you I'm
not sure I know this. How did you transition from
doing stand up to then writing?
Speaker 2 (09:54):
Well, like the S and L job, I was auditioning
to be a performer and Franken and the head writer
came to see a showcase and they were like, we
really like you. Do you want to write on the show?
And I was like hell yeah, yeah. And I was
living in California at the time. I moved to New
York and that's how I got my first job, my
(10:14):
first sitcom job. You know, when I did my first
audition night the EMC that night was Larry David who
put me through the audition, and then I went to
another club, the Comic Strip, which is still there in Manhattan,
and Jerry Seinfeld was the AMC and put me through.
So I literally go back to day one of show
business with those guys, and when I was living in
(10:36):
LA this is about ninety three. Seinfeld was this season five.
They called me together and I knew something was up
because you know, picking up a landline at that time
and getting two people one on the extensions at where
that was a big deal. I'm like, why aren't they
calling me together? And they're like, do you want to
write on Seinfeld? And I'd never written on a sitcom,
(11:00):
But my inexperience was really the advantage because they didn't
want people who'd written for sitcoms before because Larry David
thought they were all crap and he wanted to create
something new.
Speaker 1 (11:10):
So I was like, old style is lineline joke? Line
line joke, yeah, line joke yeah. Seinfeldt was different exactly, so.
Speaker 2 (11:17):
He wanted to keep the pool peer. So how lucky
was I that my inexperience led to this incredible job.
Speaker 1 (11:28):
Is it true that the character of Elaine is based
on you.
Speaker 2 (11:31):
Well, people say that because I dated Jerry in the
baths and we've stayed friends since then. But other than that,
that's where the comparison ends. You know. I like to
think I'm a good dancer. Yes, I don't push people
across the room yelling get out, but what was good
for me at the show? And I always encourage women
(11:52):
writers because we have a different filter on life. We
see the world in a different way. I mean, a
guy would not have pitched Lane thinks the Korean anacurists
are talking about her behind her back and Korean because
it happened to me. Elaine thinks there are skinny mirrors
at the department store.
Speaker 1 (12:08):
There are.
Speaker 2 (12:10):
Exactly, And Heather, every guy in that writer's room did
not know what a skinny mirror was. And I said,
I can go out here on the lot and pass
ten twenty women. Each person will know what a skinny
mirror is. Yes, yeah, So you know, using our experience
is really crucial to comedy writing, and good shows are
(12:32):
open to those ideas.
Speaker 1 (12:38):
AI AI Okay, so initial reaction as we hate AI. Right,
it's like and here we go. It's like when reality
television came on and we were like, this is the
hector and here we are fourteen years ago exactly. So okay,
so understanding that AI horrible. Whatever, I have personally found
(13:01):
now ways to use AI in my life that I
think is really interesting and helpful.
Speaker 2 (13:06):
What do you use it mostly for?
Speaker 1 (13:08):
For research on travel? Super helpful with that, Yes, ways
of you know, sometimes I will use it for dealing
with the kids.
Speaker 2 (13:20):
Hmmm, Like give me an example.
Speaker 1 (13:23):
Like, for example, like, I didn't want to say the
wrong thing to my daughter about she's like really nervous
about getting into college the specific ones. And I think
every time I say something, it does not come out right.
And so I put an if you have a sensitive
child applying for college, how might one a pro Wow? Yeah,
And I'm not saying it was exactly what I said,
(13:45):
but it gave me a few takeaway yeah that I
could walk away with.
Speaker 2 (13:50):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (13:50):
Now having said that, I'm a creative person, you're a
creative person. Liz Astrov and I talk about this a lot.
You know, we need our traumas.
Speaker 2 (13:58):
For the funest.
Speaker 1 (13:59):
Yes, what do you think about AI and what it's
doing to writers?
Speaker 2 (14:05):
And yeah?
Speaker 1 (14:06):
Everything?
Speaker 2 (14:06):
Well, the good news is AI is great for your example,
you know, you want to write a pamphlet about exzema,
you're a dermatol. Great, knock yourself out, but scintillated. But
AI is not funny, right, Like for example, with my
(14:27):
how to write a Funny speech book, a friend of mine,
her daughter was getting married. I know her, I don't
know her daughter at all, So we did what I
usually do with helping someone the speech. Got together for dinner.
I said, tell me some stories about your daughter from
childhood from now. And it's very easy for a mom
(14:47):
to tell some interesting stories about their kid. So we
took the bullet points of that and I put together
a speech for her. I said, this is going to
be fun I said, I'm going to take the bullet
points that you gave me about your daughter and put
it into AI. And it was a disaster. Really yeah,
I mean, just even from the beginning, you know esteem,
(15:11):
you know, welcome esteemed guests like who who.
Speaker 1 (15:15):
Talks my mother talks like that? By the way, my
mother esteemed guests, she already made like a stranger darling,
like he talks like that?
Speaker 2 (15:24):
Yeah, And not only there was not funny, the jokes
were pathetic, but I mean facts wrong, where if she
went up and she told this speech, it would have
been an absolute off the right off the bat. It
was horrible.
Speaker 1 (15:38):
There's also a thing I read about called AI amnesia.
I think it's called what is it? Gets it wrong?
Actually incorrect?
Speaker 2 (15:46):
Yes, yes, And especially with writing a speech, it's all
about the personal. The personal is the goal gold Like,
you're the only person who has the relationship with that person,
so that's unique. So you've got to expound on that
because that's what makes a speech terrific, when you talk
about your personal relationship that only you have with whoever's celebrating.
Speaker 1 (16:11):
Yeah, the book is sorry, that's very interesting. With the
AI thing, the book is great. It's called how to
write a funny speech for a wedding, bar mitzvah, graduation,
at every other event you didn't want to go to
in the first place. It's so funny you did it
with Rick Mitchell I did. It's so so good, And
what you're going to love about it is it gives
you every piece of practical information. And also at the
(16:31):
end there's like this mad libs where you can literally
just plug and fill, fill in the blank and get
it done. But I also thought they were really like,
I am very comfortable, as you know, speaking of course
in front of a crowd. But what I picked up
some pearls in the book was, you know when you're
(16:52):
sometimes I'm asked to do something spontaneously, but I want to.
I want to talk about that for a seconds. I really
want to. I'm gonna we're not going to give away
the book. Everyone needs to buy it. And I really
do believe that this is a book everyone should have
in their home.
Speaker 2 (17:06):
They should And the forward by Carol Burnett.
Speaker 1 (17:09):
I mean, you can't get better than that.
Speaker 2 (17:11):
Yeah, and Rick wrote for The Ellen Show for five
years and won five Emmys.
Speaker 1 (17:16):
Yeah, it's like, it's really helpful about how to pivot
and how to funny in and how to break down
a joke and really dial into it. All of that
is really great. But I'm curious what happens if someone
asks you to do something spontaneously.
Speaker 2 (17:33):
Well, here's the thing. I would feel like, when you
were asked to speak spontaneously at something, this person knew
that you were going to be good right this. You know,
you're not going to ask the clunker in the audience to, hey,
come on up, you know, and speak so right off
the bat, I think the host, whoever it is, the
(17:55):
celebrating person, is going to ask someone who they know
is going to be good. Right. I hate to say
this because you know weddings events like this, it's fun
to drink, but if somebody asks you to speak spontaneously
and you're two or three in.
Speaker 1 (18:10):
Don't do it.
Speaker 2 (18:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:12):
Yeah, trust me, I saw you. You put it in
all caps, which was really really, really funny, But it's true.
Liquid courage is fine, yeah, but you have to be careful.
Speaker 2 (18:21):
You do have a drink, sure, have one to loosen
the joints. But then people are like, oh, I feel good,
I'll have two more or seven more. Don't do it
because then you get up there and you you're comfortable,
but everybody else is incredibly uncomfortable at how hammered you are.
Speaker 1 (18:38):
Yeah, and I think one of the best pieces of
advice is keep it short.
Speaker 2 (18:42):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (18:42):
Long toests are the worst.
Speaker 2 (18:45):
Yeah, five minutes and under and that's the sweet spot. Yeah.
And write write it down yeah yeah, yeah, you know.
I never go up there with no notes. I mean,
and I've been doing that a long time. Stand up,
no stand up by I know my ass. Okay, yeah. Yeah,
but making a speech, I definitely have some notes. I
(19:07):
like to write bullet points because you know, you know,
you want to engage the audience. That's another bummer at
these events when people read and they're either looking down
at their phone, they don't look up at the audience once,
and you feel like it's a school book report. Right.
You got to be in the moment, and that's It's
another thing we encourage. If the caterer drops, you know,
(19:28):
a platter of rick ATONI, it's okay to comment on
that because everybody is aware of that, right. Or if
you lose your place, it's okay to say, eh, you
know what, I got to look at my No, it's
a lost my place. People understand that, you know, the
bar is set pretty low, which we wanted people to feel.
Make them comfortable about that. You know a lot of
(19:49):
people in the audience are like, glad, it's not me, right, yeah, Glad,
it's Eddie.
Speaker 1 (19:55):
So I just wonder if because things you know on
TikTok and stuff, they go viral when you see like
is really funny. Yeah, some people that get up a
very funny speeches.
Speaker 2 (20:03):
Uh huh.
Speaker 1 (20:04):
I think some people they just they think they're going
to do that. But if that's not you, yeah, don't
do that.
Speaker 2 (20:10):
No. And that's what we also added in the book.
For every event, we wrote a bunch of jokes that
people readers are free to steal. Yeah, and you see
a joke you like, take it. That's what it's there for.
That's worth your fifteen dollars for this book. So yeah,
but you don't have to get up there and be
Jerry Seinfeld. You know, a little bit of humor is
(20:34):
always good, but a lot of that can come from
your personal stories. You know. I know someone who is
talking about his mom, I think at a retirement party,
and he just told this story about he asked for
some shredded wheat, so the mom went to the supermarket
and she brought home three boxes because she was like,
I didn't know which one you wanted. So it not
(20:56):
only is a cute story about the mom, but it
shows what a sweet person she is she was to
him growing up. So that's why I always like to
ask people tell me one or two stories that are
dear to you about this person, and you can usually
craft that and we show you step by step in
the book, the beginning, middle, and end, how how to
(21:16):
do it? And it's really not.
Speaker 1 (21:18):
That hard, No, it's you guys break it down really
really well. I also feel like if you don't feel
like you're the right person for the toast, you could
also say no, yes, yes, I'm not comfortable doing it.
Speaker 2 (21:32):
Right. See, if somebody asked you I'd like you to
make a speech, would you consider it? And if you say,
you know, and if you can't swing it, no harm,
no foul.
Speaker 1 (21:40):
Yeah, don't do it.
Speaker 2 (21:41):
Yeah, yeah exactly because some people are too petrified it'll
just run their run their day. You know. I asked
Larry David to speak at Laurie in my wedding, which
was ten years ago now, and he was like, you know, okay,
I love you, but you know it's going to ruin
my golf game that day. Okay, but you get it.
Speaker 1 (22:03):
You want them to come and be a guest to
have and not be worried about it. Right, people, you
always used to ask me to sing at their weddings,
Oh wow and so and I was happy to do it. Yeah,
but like at one point, like for my really close friends,
but at one point it was like, yeah, I don't
want to because then you're just you're heightened the entire
time until you're done.
Speaker 2 (22:24):
Yeah, and that's a bad feeling to have.
Speaker 1 (22:26):
And the last wedding I sang out was Tamras.
Speaker 2 (22:29):
Oh wow, Yeah, that's great. Do you remember what you say?
Speaker 1 (22:32):
I sang coum rain or come shine. But I sang
during the ceremony, not during It was part of like
instead of doing a reading like I did that they
couldn't clear the songs. They didn't show it. But I
didn't care because I did it because she asked me to,
not because I was trying to like perform. Yes, yeah,
you know that's sweet, but still a lot of anxiety.
Speaker 2 (22:51):
Yeah, that's another thing you know we touch on in
the book. When you throw an event, you also have
some responsibility in terms of quieting the room down, you know,
making a nice welcome matt for your speakers. So that's
important to quiet the room down, have an order of
(23:12):
the speeches. You know, whoever you know is going to
be best should be last, right. That's why we always, yeah,
to keep it short because there are so many other
speakers usually at an event like that. Another thing we
tell people that we Ck and I have both been
in events because someone Heather gives an amazing speech and
(23:32):
you're just telling, as my people say, you know, just wondering,
like this was one of the best speeches I've ever seen.
And then they say thank you, you give a nice toast,
and they just wander back to their seat. It's like,
go over to the person the couple, Yeah, hug them,
you shake there and whatever, you know, give them a
(23:54):
kiss on the cheek, whatever. But do something like that,
because it's very odd when someone gives the speech like
that and okay, see you at the salad bar.
Speaker 1 (24:03):
Right, and it's hard to follow that. Yes, yes, any
tips for people that follow the really good speech.
Speaker 2 (24:11):
Well that look, I know that as a comedian when
I have to follow somebody who just rocked the house, right,
you just have to take the expectations down. Your speech
is not going to be their speech, maybe they killed whatever.
What you have to say. You got to go in
feeling what I have to say is valuable, and what
I have to say is not going to be what
(24:32):
this other person said, because I have my own relationship
with them. So you know, it happens.
Speaker 1 (24:43):
At our wedding, Terry and I gave really good speeches.
Oh nice, and my dad gave the weirdest speech ever.
Speaker 2 (24:54):
Oh, my parents so.
Speaker 1 (24:56):
Weird at our wedding. Really, yeah, my mom is like
very nineteen fifties, right. She literally didn't speak. She just
stood there and held her hands a certain way and
smiled while my dad spoke, which I thought was super weird,
very her. Yeah, so god forbid you should talk and
say something. No, it was all like curated, right, And
what did your dad say? My dad gave the weirdest speech.
(25:18):
And now my dad was someone who was very used
to speaking in front of people. He was a high
level executive and a former attorney and was comfortable speaking
in front of people. It was the weirdest speech ever.
He started talking and he was talking about how my
mom and I put the wedding together and how like
(25:39):
about how some of the venues wanted us to pre
ask the guests if they wanted chicken beef for fish,
which side story is super weird because I had never
heard of that at that time.
Speaker 2 (25:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:56):
I think it's more commonplace now to be asked your
selection in advance. It's easier they know what they're getting.
But at the time, like to my mother, what a
faux paw to ask your I mean, there should just
be a choice. If you're at a restaurant. Do you
understand how expensive that is and how much they have
to crap and all the things. And I remember when
(26:17):
we were looking at the response cards, because of course
missus John Strong had to do the invitations. There was
nothing electronic there. It had to be this. You had
to be that very hard card stock with gold egg
you know, didn't look like me at all, but it
didn't matter. This is what she needed. And when we
went to some other places just to look at invitations,
(26:39):
some of the response cards had the choice. Some had
a photo of a cow. And my mom was dying.
So I'm sure at this and like we can laugh
about this. This is not a toast story.
Speaker 2 (26:55):
It's kind of like a story for home, like for
you guys to talk about.
Speaker 1 (26:59):
So obnoxious, that's the first problem. And I mean, I
don't even know there's nothing funny in there anyway, my dad,
that's what he was talking about, and just went on
and on. Oh, Terry and I were looking at each
other like what is he yeah talking about?
Speaker 2 (27:17):
Could you get past it? It didn't put a damper,
I'm hoping.
Speaker 1 (27:21):
No, No, it was fine. It was just not a
good speech. There was nothing like sweet about me or
how we met or I mean just yeah, it was
very it was very nineteen fifty.
Speaker 2 (27:32):
It was very impersonal. I went to a wedding recently.
Father of the boy got up. It was like a
job fair. He just went through his daughter's resume. She went,
she graduated kum lauda from Yale, then went on to
a weird yeah. And when it becomes the talk of
the valet parking line of people gone. Kids to believe
(27:55):
that speech, Oh my god, I heard every job she's
ever had, and you know that's not good. You didn't
want people to leave in saying boy. The people that
got up to speak were so fantastic and I had
the best time. You're not like disson on the speech giver.
Speaker 1 (28:11):
And also, a wedding is different than a funeral. It's
different than a retirement party. I think at a retirement
party you expect more people to speak because where you're
honoring this one person and it's a last hurrah.
Speaker 2 (28:24):
Yes, yes, that's true. It is very good too. Really
extol that person because you know this is it. They're retiring, right.
Speaker 1 (28:35):
There's no more like pat on the back at the
board meeting or so laying it on laying yeah, lay
it on thick, yeah on big. But with weddings, you know,
I also feel like you should limit how many people
are speaking when someone pop up after the speeches were done.
So my parent, my dad spoke, Terry and I spoke,
and his best man and that was it. Everyone else spoke.
(28:58):
I had an opportunity to speak the night before the rehearsal. Yes,
good idea, which I think is like a better time
for like silly stars wedding. Everyone wants to dance and eat. Yes,
you don't want to sit there, and most of people
have been sitting through the ceremony for a long time.
Speaker 2 (29:14):
And then waiting or waiting to eat. The speeches go
before you eat, and you're just sitting there with your
stomach growling like can you please wrap this up? I
know I want my chicken A lucky.
Speaker 1 (29:27):
We call it gig chicken. When I used to have
my band, yeah, we'd be like, oh what are we
having for dinner? Oh they're serving us the gig chicken. Okay, cool.
Speaker 2 (29:35):
But that's the thing too, you know, I always like
you and Terry spoke to each other during a wedding.
When couples do that. I don't enjoy it when couples
get married and they don't say something to each other,
a little speech to each other, because that always brings
you closer to the couple of just knowing how they
(29:56):
feel about each other.
Speaker 1 (29:57):
And it's different than the vows. Yes, because your vowels
are very specific. He pour all over them. By the way,
you could use the book for the vows too. To
be honest, I mean not that you need to throw
jokes in, but it's cute. Yeah, when you can like funny,
you know, say something cute and funny to each other.
But I mean we we didn't write vows like that.
(30:17):
Terry was not comfortable at the time doing something like that.
He didn't speeches.
Speaker 2 (30:23):
Yeah, he was not.
Speaker 1 (30:24):
He's a different animal.
Speaker 2 (30:25):
Yeah, he's uh yeah, he's out there now when we
go out. He is mister fun, mister party. He is.
Speaker 1 (30:30):
I think privately he's always been that way. But I
think having a television career has emboldened him too. And
doing so much press. I mean, honestly, Caroly, you wouldn't die.
But when he so, he wrote we've written three books together.
He wrote one before that called the acne Cure, and
he went on like a little book tour and I
was with him, actress right right, and I'm like his mamager,
(30:52):
stage mom, wife, wife, ager or whatever, and I'm standing
along the side. And I remember he was on like
a CBS talk show. I can't what it was. We're
in New York, We're doing this thing. He looked so
miserable and.
Speaker 2 (31:04):
You had seen his face.
Speaker 1 (31:05):
Yeah, like it was like someone was torturing him, pure terror, error, torture.
Couldn't answer a question. Now, yeah, now he could totally
do it. But I remember when we were, you know,
giving those speeches to each other. He was really he
was sweet and good, but he wasn't his normal big
(31:26):
yes andality.
Speaker 2 (31:27):
Yes. And you know people always like how you met stories, Yes,
because that's really that's what we told him. Perfect perfect, perfect. Actually,
at our wedding, my wedding Lourie, I did give her
the best joke of the night.
Speaker 1 (31:42):
Would you give her?
Speaker 2 (31:43):
Well, she wasn't sure how to start a speech, so
during the wedding when she spoke to me during the ceremony,
I gave her Carol, You're the most wonderful, smart, beautiful,
giving person. I've ever met. And she pulled and she
ripped up the paper and said, well enough with your
draft that yeah she got. Yeah, she brought down the
(32:10):
house with that one. So, hey, people, take that one.
It's already been done.
Speaker 1 (32:15):
Well I sort of did something similar. Oh really, yeah,
because Terry and I met on a blind date.
Speaker 2 (32:19):
Oh I think I heard this story at dinner. Tell
me again.
Speaker 1 (32:22):
Okay, we met on a blind date. But what people
didn't know is that I had already seen a photo
of him. So he was in the Orange County like register.
It was a magazine, you see something, Top Bachelors.
Speaker 2 (32:38):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (32:38):
So there was a blurb and for some reason they
had chosen him for the picture, right, So there was
blurbs about different people.
Speaker 2 (32:45):
There was like a.
Speaker 1 (32:46):
Tall standing picture and my friend had given it to
me and I'd saved it and I was in my
file of fax folded yes, and I'm a hard coffee girl,
so it was folded in by file ax, and I
was trying to think about what to do for toast,
and I really I don't remember what I did at
the rehearsal dinner, but it was good, and so I
was like, how do I follow that up? And so
I called my girlfriend, I go, can you go to
(33:08):
my apartment and grab this little piece of paper in
my file? Effects she was like sure. So I read it,
bought brought it, and I said that I said, people
don't know I actually saw him beforehand. So I opened
it up and I showed it and I read it.
Speaker 2 (33:21):
Oh that's so great.
Speaker 1 (33:23):
It's just like a little blur. But it was like
I would do our first my perfect date is And
it was like we sort of did that, but like
not as high life, like we flew coach. It was
like take a private jet to sound like we went coach.
So I read the whole thing, and then at the end,
I said, well, I just want ever to know he's
off the market now, he's not a batchel.
Speaker 2 (33:41):
I don't want to read it. Oh that's so great. It
was good. Oh my god, that's so great.
Speaker 1 (33:45):
It was a good speech.
Speaker 2 (33:46):
I remember at dinner we talked about we have been together.
You've been with Terry since my twenty eight years yes,
and same year me and Laurie.
Speaker 1 (33:55):
How did you and Laurie meet?
Speaker 2 (33:57):
Good question, Well, you were married.
Speaker 1 (34:01):
I was married to a man, yes, but fish girl.
Speaker 2 (34:07):
But I was divorced already for six years. No, wait
a minute, nine years, yeah, okay, And I just felt
like I want to have an affair with a woman.
That's what, Yeah, that's in my filo facts. And I
went to this project Angel food charity men with gay
(34:28):
friends of mine couple, and I saw Laurie across the table.
She was actually with another woman, but I was so
taken with her. She was she is so pretty. And
I just said to my friend, you know what, and
I talked to her a little bit. I said to
my friend, you know, I think I have a little
crush on Laurie Wolf. And he said, let me try
(34:48):
to you know, let me try to hook you up
through golf, which of course you know lesbians. And we
met at witsit a golf course, and she's quite a golfer,
she is she are you? I was starting, I was
starting to play. Larry David actually for my fortieth birthday,
(35:09):
gave me golf lessons. I guess he knew before me
that I was a lesbian. So anyway, so we meet
it with's it and then we go to Arts Delhi
afterwards to get a bite and we were talking and
I was saying how I was single, kind of leading
towards something happening. She made a hard left. She was like,
(35:30):
I work with so many guys at my office I
could set you up with. And I'm like, oh my god,
she's not getting it. She's not getting it. So I
went back to my friend after that date and I
told him the story and he said, yeah, I spoke
to her, and you know, I told her that you
were sort of interested in her, and Laurie said, well,
I'm not going to be some experiment for a straight woman.
(35:50):
I get that, yes, yeah. But then a couple months
later she called me. I was writing at Larry Sanders,
I remember this, and she was like, I have a
ticket tonight to NEXTRA ticket to the Beverly Hills Policeman's Ball.
You know, she was working for Astre Company. Yes, do
you have a dress?
Speaker 1 (36:11):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (36:11):
She was like, do you want to go? And we
went and then you know, a couple of glasses of wine,
and I remember she was going over to the silent
auction table and going, oh, why, oh, that'd be fun,
you know, and I was like, oh, something, the wheels
are kind of turning here. And from that day on
we've been together. That night of drunk yes, there it is.
(36:33):
Back up the U haul, back up the super U.
I'm with a woman. Now.
Speaker 1 (36:38):
Was that hard for you to tell your friends and
your ex and or did you just.
Speaker 2 (36:43):
Feel like, yeah, I wasn't at that. You know, my
ex and I haven't really been connected since we divorced.
It's so funny that people sometimes go over me and
they say, oh, I know your ex husband. It's like, great,
I don't know him anymore, like there's no connection. But
it was hard to tell my parents. You know, I
(37:04):
waited a year and they had no idea. They had
no idea. It's funny, I'll tell you in retrospect. But
I went home and I thought it was going to
be like I was going to be the rock and
they were going to fall apart. The opposite happened, Heather.
I was really emotional my parents. My mother was like
love is a gift from God, no exactly. And I
(37:27):
was crying actually, and I my father's like, why are
you crying, Carol? And I said, because I thought you'd
be disappointed. And my father said, I'll tell you when
I was disappointed when you married that gentile, typical Jewish father, right, Yeah,
it was like, yeah, you from Brentwood. It was like,
(37:47):
let's break out the Man of Chevins. That's all there
is a horror. We're gonna have a hoop of the time. Yeah,
it's gonna be great. But you know, it's interesting. I
had two months before that I had to have I
had a fib ro atinoma in one of my breasts
and I had to have it out. I went to
New York because I was still in the head of
like New York doctors. Yeah, and Laurie came with me,
(38:10):
and I told my parents, oh, my friend is coming.
And we went to my house on Long Island and
had lunch one day before the surgery, and we took
a walk around the block, my parents and me and Laurie.
And after I came out to my parents, my mom
said to me, you know, I knew it. And I said,
how did you know? She said, when you and Laurie
were walking ahead of us. I said to Seymour, they're together.
(38:33):
The body language was just something you cannot ignore.
Speaker 1 (38:37):
Moms.
Speaker 2 (38:37):
No, yes, moms, no, they do great.
Speaker 1 (38:41):
Well, you got a good one. You guys are the
greatest couples. Oh fabulous, You're fabulous. I could literally talk
to you for hours.
Speaker 2 (38:48):
And we do it our dinners. We know those places down.
Speaker 1 (38:51):
We closed the joint step and we're going to make
a new Oh yes, we're going to make a dinner. Absolutely,
How to write a funny speech, You guys, this book
is amazing. I'm telling you everyone needs us. I'm gonna
post a link fantast everyone.
Speaker 2 (39:02):
And this is a good gift test because speech season
is coming up.
Speaker 1 (39:07):
Graduations, Mother's Day and come on, all right, here we go,
hick it up. Do it. Tell everyone how to find
you on social.
Speaker 2 (39:16):
I'm at Carol Leifer. It's very easy, Carol l E
I f E R there it is. Yeah, don't forget it.
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