August 29, 2025 • 41 mins
Captain Ron and Michael discuss alternative theories for what UFOs and extraterrestrial beings could be. Michael explores the concept of ancient and current esotericism and how the nature of consciousness controls our perception.
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
You're listening to the iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast DAM
Paranormal podcast network, where we offer you podcasts of the paranormal, supernatural,
and the unexplained. Get ready now for Beyond Contact with
Captain Wrong.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Welcome to our podcast. Please be aware the thoughts and
opinions expressed by the host are their thoughts and opinions only,
and do not reflect those of iHeartMedia, iHeartRadio, Coast to
Coast AM, employees of premier networks, or their sponsors and associates.
We would like to encourage you to do your own
(00:42):
research and discover the subject matter for yourself.
Speaker 3 (00:55):
Hey everyone, it's Captain ron and Each week on Beyond
Contact are the latest news in ufology, discuss some of
the classic cases and bring you the latest information from
the newest cases as we talked with the top experts.
Speaker 4 (01:11):
Welcome to Beyond Contact. I'm Captain Rona. Today we're joined
by Michael Phillip. Michael's a writer, speaker, creator and host
of Third Eye Drops podcast. The podcast blends consciousness exploration,
psychedelic philosophy, spirituality, technology, and esoteric ideas such as non
human intelligences, altered states, simulation theory ets and interdimensional phenomena.
(01:34):
He also explores the deep thinkers of history and their philosophies,
and he is a very curious person about the true
nature of reality. He's right up my ALLEI. Hey, Michael,
welcome to the show.
Speaker 5 (01:46):
How you doing doing well?
Speaker 1 (01:47):
Man?
Speaker 5 (01:47):
Doing well? I always like when I hear an introduction
that isn't something that I wrote, you know, four or
five years ago, and I cringe at and so, yeah,
that was a nice novel way to start things out,
and I agree with that assessment.
Speaker 4 (01:59):
It is man. So I've watched a lot of your
stuff and I really recommend it to everyone listening. And
much of what you talk about seems to be rooted
more in philosophies and ancient traditions. You're very well versed
in all of these areas, and I'm curious to hear
where do you sit today regarding the UFO phenomena?
Speaker 5 (02:18):
Yeah, Man, well, kind of like we were just alluding
to or talking about specifically actually before we were recording.
You know, when these experiences do happen with what you
perceive to be the other, right, there are so many
biases we have in terms of like I think the
first bias is we just want to understand, right, Like,
let's say you have some kind of anomalist experience with
(02:38):
something you can explain that feels intelligent beyond you. The
human mind wants to know. It wants to know what
bucket do I put this in? And alien is a
very clean bucket. You know, we can sort of understand
that it sort of makes sense with our modern POV.
But in my experience, if we're more intellectually honest, I
think it could be something that if it's in any
(03:00):
number of buckets and maybe none or maybe all of
them somehow in some kind of like a you know,
Jacques Valais kind of way, where it's like this intelligence
or system that can take on many different forms, including
what appears to be alien, including what appears to be
a Marian apparition or a faery or whatever. So I
(03:24):
think generally that's the kind of hypothesis I gravitate toward,
is that whatever this is, it's probably far beyond us.
It's probably rooted in consciousness, and it probably has the
ability to present itself in any number of ways. Also
very similar to like a John Keel, you know, ultra
terrestrial hypothesis sort of line of thinking I would say,
(03:48):
you know.
Speaker 4 (03:49):
In today's world, we're just flooded with misinformation, disinformation, misidentification
even and even intentional disinformation. Of course, so you also
point out how we can look to many of these old,
ancient traditions that can give us some insights to interacting
with the phenomenon.
Speaker 5 (04:06):
Right, yeah, because I think you know, whatever this is.
Of course, there's like modern UFO or like it starts
in the nineteen forties, you know, famous crashes like Roswell
et cetera. And there are some I feel like potential
coherent reasons for why it would have only just started then.
But I really gravitate toward the idea that whatever it
is has been going on for far, far longer than that,
(04:28):
And what's really shifted is our cultural and linguistic and
conceptual tool set for describing whatever this is. When you
go back to ancient Greece, for instance, their culture is
replete with non human intelligence. Right, You've got angels, you've
got daimonas which eventually become demons. You've got gods depending
(04:49):
on who you're reading, you've got hyper cosmic gods, and
maybe more interestingly and more harmonic with the UFO phenomena.
There are appearances that are talked about, appearances of lights appearing,
says of intelligence is you know, there are biblical stories
of people being taken up by angelic figures to the
throne of God. And I understand that these are like
(05:09):
controversial things to conflate, but I also feel like it's
too tempting not.
Speaker 4 (05:14):
To right on the note almost it's so parallel. And
why would we not call that a god. If we
went to a tribe that was disconnected and we showed
them an iPhone and you could talk to anyone in
the world, we would be gods. You know that kind
of a thing. Technology is god.
Speaker 5 (05:28):
Like, yes, And you know, with some of these more
current revelations from whistleblowers, there seems to be almost a
strange return to this. Have you noticed that, Like, there
seems to be a strange return to Yes, there's technology involved,
but you're not going to get to the root of
whatever this is unless you're asking the question through the
(05:48):
prism of consciousness, Like, through the prism of this is
not just reducible to nuts and bolts and some super
advanced civilization. There's something fundamentally consciousness based about all of this.
And when you start to marry those two things, like
hyper advanced technology with higher intelligence, you know, maybe maybe
(06:09):
something like a god or spiritual being isn't the worst
descriptor maybe it's closer to the truth. We're equally close
to the truth to alien. I'm not personally married to
any nomenclature at all.
Speaker 4 (06:20):
Right, but it's well phrased. The way you put that together.
It even reminded me of how you're using the word technology.
You know, Gallimore says DMT is not a drug, it's
a technology, you know, And it almost feels like these
ancient traditions, in this ancient way of thinking and the
ability to we probably had a better control of our
consciousness and maybe some of these siabilities two thousand years
(06:41):
ago more than we are five thousand years ago, more
than we have today, which is incredible. You know. I
like the idea that this material that you're talking about,
these ancient traditions, was there before cover ups and social
media and the lore building upon itself. You know, that's
a kind of a problem we have today because of
the proliferation of these stories. Now, that's why the early
accounts of UFOs or encounters with beings, because today, you know,
(07:05):
kids grow up seeing that on TV, which we didn't,
you know, fifty years ago. All of this disinformation encounter
intelligence that permeates our world. It affects the way these
things are since we're dealing with what, for the moment
is really a complete unknown. It's so hard to pin
down any of it for certain, But you can't examine
the phenomenon from so many different disciplines and see patterns
(07:28):
and themes and even specific accounts that seem to repeat
throughout history. Have you found that to be the case.
Speaker 5 (07:34):
Yeah, to some degree. But I think it gets tricky
because I think, on one hand, experiencer accounts and whistleblowers
and people at firsthand knowledge is such a double edged
short sword because simultaneously I think they are the most compelling,
but also, just due to human psychology, they can also
(07:57):
be the most dubious. Right, So it's it's hard to
ever separate wheat from the chaff in terms of like,
this person's real, this person's a liar, this person's a
disinformation agent, this person's legit. So I feel like that's
one of those things, those those pieces of dissonance when
you're trying to follow the breadcrumbs that you're always going
(08:19):
to run into, right because my favorite whistleblower might be
somebody who I say and you're like, oh, that guy's
a spook immediately, and then you run into this and
you can't know, right, like despite your best efforts, and
you know, Wow, that guy really seems legit to me,
That guy really seems like he has our best interest
in mind. At the end of the day, we just
don't know what that person's psychology is. So in some ways, yeah,
(08:39):
I do think that there does seem to be this
grammar to these experiences. It's weird because I put stock
in that. But then I also my intellect jumps in
and is like, or is there a grammar there? Because
there's like this weird emulation occurring. There's like this weird
mimetic fan fiction like occurring, you know. But I do
(09:00):
think they're probably if you made me just state yes
or no, do I think there's a there there? I
do think there is. I do think there's some overlap
to these experiences. That's that's real, right, And I do
think it runs from the ancient world to the modern.
But you've got to be it's so tricky because it's
just you either want to project the ancient onto the
(09:21):
modern or the modern onto the ancient. Right, you'd be like, no,
it's these beings that were interact It's the Onunaki that
the Mesopotamians were talking about, you know, six thousand years ago.
Or no, it's the Arctorians. That's who the Mesopotamians were
interacting with. And at the end of the day, I
just don't know. So, like I said, I'm not married
to any nomenclature. But if you examine the information carefully,
(09:45):
I do think that there's a grammar there, and I
think people like Jacquees prolet again do like just such
an amazing job of highlighting what these commonalities are outside
of the cultural associations, outside of the popular mythologies and
lower of the day.
Speaker 4 (10:01):
Yeah, there's no doubt in my mind that there is
something going on. There is something beyond our three D reality,
new Tonian physics, all of that. I really do believe
there's something beyond materialism. But that's almost like where it
ends for me, because I really just have absolutely no idea,
even if I've had an experience, it's so beyond us.
I feel like it's very difficult in our human terms,
at this level of technological development. To really have a
(10:23):
grasp of what's happening, we need to take a break here. Brother.
When we come back, we're going to continue this conversation
with Michael and delve into the actual alien beings, keeping
in mind that they may not be from another planet.
You're listening to Beyond Contact on the iHeartRadio and Coast
to Coast AM Paranormal podcast network. We are back at
(11:00):
and Beyond Contact. We're speaking with Michael Phillip from Third
Eye Drops. Michael. Not that long ago, it felt like
there was this idea that these ets were beings that
lived on another planet and traveled here in nuts and
boltz craft, like we talked about then. Over the years,
we've had these different ideas and stories of beings coming
from other places, like other dimensions, other timelines, different vibrational states,
(11:22):
hidden corners of Earth itself, coexisting here, spiritual beings, all
these different ideas, there is one more that I'd like
to touch on that sometimes gets overlooked, and that's the
idea that seems to also go back millennia, and that's
the notion of these metaphysical entities which are somehow based
in the evolution of our consciousness and perhaps even get
(11:43):
manifested to our reality that we may be able to
access through psychedelics like ayahuasca and DMT. What are your
thoughts about the accounts of these beings.
Speaker 5 (11:53):
Yeah, it's very compelling. And again this is sort of
where I gravitate on the Nhi question in gen is
that if you look to these stories, if you look
to shamanistic stories, ancient Greek stories, ancient Hindu stories, it's
all very similar. To just put it bluntly, it's all
very similar.
Speaker 4 (12:11):
Right.
Speaker 5 (12:11):
There's a world we live in, a three D world
of physical reality of things that if I'm looking at
it and no one moves it, it's going to stay
right there. If I park my car across the street,
it's going to be there when I get back. But
then there's this subtler realm that goes by many names, right,
and within this subtler realm, there are things that exist.
(12:32):
There are life forms, there are intelligences, there are other consciousnesses. Now,
if you're a South American shaman, you're going to call
those consciousnesses a whole panoply of certain things. If you're
an ancient Greek neoplatonic sage you're going to call them
something else, but the basic structure is the same that
there is this world that we live in, but behind
(12:53):
this world there is this subtler world. So again I
get a lot out of people like Keel and Valet
because it feels like they're trying to update what the
ancients we're talking about all along, not only and I
like that they update. Like Keel, for instance, you know
he talks about there being this sort of extended electromagnetic
spectrum perhaps like yes, we're we're aware of, you know,
(13:16):
this observable realm of phenomena that we can grock with
our senses, and now we have instrumentation that allows us
to use radio waves see radiation xyz. But there are
probably subtler realms, even beyond what we can currently measure
with our technology. And in those subtler realms there seem
to be intelligences, intelligences that can materialize, that can take
(13:40):
on a variety of forms, And to me, that harmonizes
so well with all the ancient stuff that it's hard
not to give those kind of hypotheses more credence than
what you were describing. You know, aliens that get in
a ship and then they like doot to do to do
for a really long time from another from another star
system until they get here. And admittedly they might be
extra terrest. There really might be beings that live on
(14:02):
other planets. I'm not trying to straw man that or
eliminate that.
Speaker 4 (14:06):
These things couldn't coexist. They both could be true.
Speaker 5 (14:09):
Yes, yes, And that's another thing I'm sensitive to, is
like drawing two need of a circle around any of
it and trying to boil it all down to one thing.
It's probably just another you know, artifact of human bias
or trying to.
Speaker 4 (14:20):
Get I think it's human nature that we want to
put in a box. Where does this go? All goes
over here? It's this wherever that is. But I think
the more I delve into this nonsense, I feel like
there's way more different realities happening simultaneous to the one
we're currently in. You know, the beings that people encounter
in the DMT world are often reported as reptilian, insectoid,
(14:44):
even mantislike, and the accounts state that these beings say
to them, this is not what we look like. We're
appearing this way. So you can grasp our presence, and
I think, what an odd thing that they would be
choosing to appear in a life form, and it happens
to be just like what people report when they claim
to have an et experience as similar bans. What do
(15:06):
you think about that.
Speaker 5 (15:07):
The morphology or form that they choose to take is
definitely a mysterious point now a human.
Speaker 4 (15:15):
Or an animal that we would grasp immediately.
Speaker 5 (15:18):
Yeah right, I'm just spitball. Well, first, let me say
I've talked to you mentioned Andrew Gallimore, you know, neuropharmacologists,
this guy who's become one of the biggest proselytizers of
d MT specifically, you know, wrote a number of books
like his new book Death by Astonishment, and you know,
alien information theory, reality switch technologies. He's a proponent of
(15:39):
this idea that you're talking about that whatever weighs this intelligence,
that this hyper intelligence, this higher dimensional whatever you want
to call it hyper intelligence, however it's portraying itself to
the human mind's eye, is not what it really is,
but it is taking on these forms, like you said,
mantus forum, reptilian form, whatever. And my gut, my intuition
(16:03):
is that it probably has something to do with not
just the intelligence but the mind of the person. Maybe
it's not even specifically like a top down decision on
the point of whatever it is. It's something about the
nature of that thing coupled with the individual's mind who's
perceiving it. Because I would guess ron like, if you
(16:24):
had an experience of a manted being and I also
had the experience of a manted being, there'd probably still
be weird differences in how I perceive it.
Speaker 4 (16:32):
And you'll pictured a chair right now, that'd be very different.
Speaker 5 (16:35):
Yes, yes, And I talked to do you know, Jeffrey Kreipel,
of course, yeah, brilliant guy, righty. We sort of got
hung up on this point in our conversation in a
way that was really just brain melting to me, which
is this point of things are occurring in an altered state,
you know, like I'm having this, for lack of a
better term, mind's eye experience, let's say, in an altered state.
(16:56):
But I am not consciously choosing, as we're talking about,
like what I'm seeing at all, but yet it is
appearing exclusively to me in my experience, and there does
seem to be this weird chooser of an image somewhere,
and I don't know if that chooser of the image
is in my mind, if it's external to my mind,
if it's a collision of my mind and the other thing,
(17:16):
and it's just making the most obvious outcome in the
form of a lizard being. I don't know, but it's
an interesting question.
Speaker 4 (17:24):
It is. And Michael, I'll tell you the first time
I heard it, you know what I thought. I thought.
You know, obviously all of this is wild speculation, but
maybe these beings are so advanced and so outside of
our concept of reality that to them, since they're let's
say they are energy beings or light beings or something
beyond you know, maybe they feel like they're manifesting in
(17:45):
a solid body that's part of our universe, because those
beings do exist on other planets in our universe, and
to them, well, we would know what that is because
we're part of this universe. You know, they're so beyond
us that they see it. They're not going to come
was humans or animals. They come as this other being
because they think that's all part of our universe. I
(18:06):
know that's out there, but it's just an idea, you know.
I want to ask you this didn't Carl Jung say
that all of these different archetypes are kind of baked
into our conscious mind. But these beings certainly don't seem
to be or am I missing that they are?
Speaker 5 (18:19):
Yeah, I mean, the question of archetypes is a very
compelling and interesting one, and I think it's it kind
of depends on what your a priori your you know,
your prior assumptions are about what an archetype is. Like
a lot of people, I think, incorrectly think that Yung
was saying this is all in your head, This is
all just an artifact of human psychology. These archetypes, these
(18:42):
archetypes don't really exist in and of themselves. But when
you read his more kind of esoteric stuff, like that
big read book that's behind me, that's like Jung's big
visionary book that he kept secret his whole life. He
was clearly very well read in all of this ancient
esoteric stuff, chemical stuff, ancient gnostic stuff, ancient platonic stuff.
(19:03):
So he was keenly aware that archetypes were not just
confined to the human mind, but to what he called
the collective unconscious, like the collective mind of all of
humanity and maybe even beyond humanity, right, and I think
maybe you know when these intelligences enter from Like let's
just say that there is this collective unconscious of all
(19:24):
of humanity, if they have their own consciousness, that can
even you know, navigate through our collective unconscious. Let's just visualize,
like there's two spaces. There's like a giant bubble that's
the human collective unconscious, and then there's an external thing
coming into the human collective unconscious. Maybe it has to
choose an image from our own a collective unconscious and subconscious.
(19:46):
Maybe it has to take some of what it really
is and combine it with what we know. I mean,
it's just so hard to know, but yeah, I mean
these are really archetypal, right, like reptilians, serpents, manted. Have
you ever seen those ancient like the ancient Mesopotamian I
think it is an onnaki thing of like the side
(20:07):
the side view of that reptilian looking beings that's holding
one of those weird bags, yeah, right, with his hand
out stretched.
Speaker 4 (20:14):
Which is all over the world that they hold these bags. Yeah, bizarre.
Speaker 5 (20:17):
So clearly these are things that have been in the
consciousness of humanity. Like as far back as our relics
goes years at least, John, So, I mean then that
respawns all kinds of new questions, right, Like, so were
these things that they were really encountering or these really
physical beings that came down on a ship? I don't know, man,
I mean all these all these questions end in and
(20:38):
I don't know, but they're supremely interesting and fun to
talk about.
Speaker 4 (20:41):
Like kicking around exactly. You just you just summed it up. Right.
When we come back, we're going to continue this conversation
with Michael and ask him his thoughts on reality not
being something we perceive, but perhaps something we participate in
shaped by consciousness itself. You're listening to Beyond Contact on
the iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast AM Paranormal podcast network.
(21:23):
We're back on Beyond Contact and we're getting some serious
third eye drops today from Michael Phillip. It feels like
a conversation we should be having at midnight, Michael, and
not so early here in the morning. So it's kind
of crazy. What about that idea, Michael, that reality may
not be something we simply perceive, but something we actually
actively participate in shaped by our consciousness itself.
Speaker 5 (21:46):
Yeah, there's a lot of ways we could go with
this too, you know, from the sort of you know,
modern new thought manifestation route simulation theory. But one thing
er I really gravitate toward, and you know, stay with
me here because this will eventually tie back into all
the phenomena and UFO stuff, though it may not sound
(22:07):
like it is. There's this cognitive scientist named doctor Donald
Hoffman yep, who is just absolutely brilliant. Like I mean,
this guy is just like you know, top level classically
trained intellect in math and hardcore cognitive science, you know,
like perception, and like this guy's written like technical textbooks
(22:30):
on perception. And what he believes is that this world
that we perceive that you were just mentioning, is just
an evolutionarily convenient illusion. It's like a computer desktop that
is not there to accurately portray reality. It's there to
let us know what will kill us, what will give
(22:50):
us a quote unquote evolutionary fitness payoff, you know, sex,
food status, whatever. But what's behind that usion is consciousness
and we are truly at our core what he calls
a conscious agent. So again to nutshell it we perceive
(23:10):
this computer desktop simulation world. But that's not what reality is.
What reality really is is what he calls this network
of conscious agents. And you know, if you talk to Don,
you can tell he has a lot of philosophical thoughts,
but he likes not to speculate too much about what
this realm of conscious agents is. But to me as
(23:32):
someone who is into all of this ancient stuff again
like I'm I'm particularly really into like neoplatonism and Platonism,
and even just explaining what I mean by that is
sort of like a rabbit hole that we might not
have time for. But they agree with what Don is saying.
But for them, these worlds of consciousness are populated by
(23:53):
a whole panoply of different kinds of beings, different ranks
of beings that I suspect have a lot to do
with what we now perceive as NHI or or alien intelligence.
And for them, the way that you got to the
truer reality was through the portal of your own consciousness,
was through through the portal of contemplation, ritual, uh technica
(24:19):
that's now lost to us, right, like things that you
if you pick up one of these old books and
you and you bash your brain against it and like
really try to read it. You're going to see that
there's some system that they're talking about. There's some initiations
they were talking about, some mystery schools or mystery initiations
they were talking about that they take extremely seriously. But
(24:41):
nowhere is it ever explicit. Nowhere does it say do this,
and then do this and then do this. Because that
was all like initiatory knowledge that only if if you know,
I would privately reveal to you after you know some
oath and you know, other things and study and all
this other stuff.
Speaker 4 (24:59):
Then they are that way too, because they have this knowledge,
they would't want to share that with everybody, right, right,
kind of like the technology of UFOs today. Yeah, one
one could correlate that.
Speaker 5 (25:11):
And you know, you take one look at social media, right,
and it's sort of clear why you would keep these
things for a small group of initiates, right, because if
if you let this knowledge out, everybody can just run
wild with it and say whatever they want about it,
and then that has this effect where it's just like
degrades it and also just muddies the waters. You know,
(25:31):
if everybody's talking about it and saying this is what
it is. No, this is what it is. Multiply that
times a million, and you've got social media. You got
you got you got Twitter ufo, right, which I love. Well,
let's be honest. It's it's a. It's a it's a
it's a it's a turbulent path to truth at best.
Speaker 4 (25:47):
What a nice, soft, safe way to say that. Well done. Yeah,
it's tough. Hey, you know, much of this feels so
beyond our level of understanding at this point. You know,
you and Chris Ramsey were discussing this notion of perhaps
these UFOs and or even the beings that fly these UFOs,
may actually be this autonomous, you know, reactive machines that
(26:11):
are perhaps proliferated throughout the universe and are just reacting
to what we do, that the real intelligence behind these
aren't even necessarily here. That this is you know, it's
a very interesting line of thinking, and it makes sense
on some level. You can imagine how an intelligence million
years ahead of us could look at this all so
(26:33):
completely differently than we do and just send out these
ais to explore and monitor other worlds and be programmed
to do certain things. You know, what are your thoughts
on all.
Speaker 5 (26:44):
That Yeah, it's a really interesting hypothesis that would explain
a lot. This notion that there is this and this
all kind of comes off the back of this now
famous Reddit whistleblower thread, claimed whistleblower thread, you know, where
this guy was claiming he worked on the inside of
this project. He's terminally ill, so screw it, I'm gonna
(27:09):
I'm gonna put all the information out. And this is
what he says. And Chris has covered this on his channel.
He's read through this whole transcript for anyone who's interested
in this. Super worth a watch. But that's what he
says is that hidden under the ocean, there are these
I forget the exact terminology he uses, but there are
these giants. Yeah yeah, these yeah, these giant mobile construction units.
(27:34):
That's it, These mobile construction units that are moving around
at like hyper speed underneath the ocean. They're massive, and
they essentially print UFOs on demand for whatever the need is.
And that's why we see the variety of shapes, because
one thing is better for one mission and other things
better for another mission. But then going even further, not
(27:55):
only are those made on demand, it seems like the
beings are made on demand as well, so that they
are these almost like biological drones and probably also psychical
drones based on what we know or what all the
lower seems to suggest that whatever these things are, and
whatever these craft are, they're being piloted psionically or psychically
(28:15):
by these things, because there's, again depending on which Laurie
you're reading, there seems to be like no controls inside
of these things. It's just a seat and that's it,
and it's something that the pilot psychically interacts with.
Speaker 4 (28:29):
Michael. It also parallels the et encounters and abduction experiences
where people say oftentimes that these ets the grays do
not appear to be biological necessarily, that they seem robotic
oftentimes that report.
Speaker 5 (28:44):
Yeah, yeah, so it's extremely compelling stuff. And you know,
Chris probably brought this up too. But Matthew Brown, the
recent whistleblower who spoke with Knapp and Corbell on weaponized.
Speaker 4 (28:58):
Constellation, right, yes, yeah.
Speaker 5 (29:00):
Immaculate constellation leaker, he used a built he said, built
to speck or built to purpose or made to purpose
or something in a way that was just so eerie.
If you've read that Reddit testimony from the apparent whistleblower
it seemed like he was saying almost the exact same thing,
that there are these mysterious points of origin mobile construction
(29:22):
units where these things are made to purpose. And then
again he starts getting into some of the weird nebulous
consciousness stuff, or at least suggesting it in a way
that's very tantalizing but ultimately very frustration frustrating, you know,
like it's like you're hitting at all of these huge
things but not spelling anything out, and that puts us
back on the corkboard with the yarn right where we're
(29:42):
trying to be like, well, this is agent esoteric thing,
sounds like what he's saying, But then we're just left
to spin our wheels.
Speaker 4 (29:49):
Isn't that how it is in ninety five percent of
all these ninety nine point nine percent of these cases. Listen,
we got to take a break here of Michael. When
we come back, we're going to continue this conversation and
talk about some of the various schools of thought that
are out there on where these intelligences may exist. You're
listening to Beyond Contact on the iHeartRadio and Coast to
Coast AM Paranormal podcast network. We're back on beyond Contact.
(30:35):
We're talking to Michael Phillip. Michael, listen. Listening to your
show and others, you start to hear all these different
schools of thought trying to explain what's happening, Going back
even to the ancient teachings that you study through today,
there's like all these different ideas. There's two earths and
ones more peaceful, and there's these different timelines, and there's
(30:55):
you know, beings traveling interdimensionally and then beings traveling outside
dimension that are above those beings. And there's entities that
are living adjacent to us, but they're on a different
vibrational level, beings living inside of Earth or the afterlife energy,
beings like beings. It goes on and on, but you
start thinking that maybe it's possible the universe is just
(31:16):
teaming with these various entities in these different realms, and
it's like you know, a giant MasterCard, like a little
tiny Venn diagram, and they just kind of are up
against each other and you kind of peek over, you know,
And on the other hand, you could start thinking, can
these all be right? It just doesn't seem possible. How
do you navigate so many different traditions.
Speaker 5 (31:37):
Yeah, man, it's PRECARYO. It's at best. What I ultimately
settle on is I think I'm always in knowledge acquisition mode.
Admittedly I'm not doing it in a systematic way. I'm
following whatever seems interesting to me, you know, whatever people
seem compelling and valid to me. I was actually just
revisiting today the long version of the Jake Barber interview.
(32:00):
Total side note, But have you heard about this fictionalized
account that people have widely started surmising is written by
Jake Barber called Sentinels of the Ether? Man. This is
a whole thing that I don't even know if I
should bring up at this point in the conversation. But anyway,
if you look up Sentinels of the Ether, you'll find
a bunch of people saying it seems to be written
(32:21):
by Jake Barber. Uap Gerb just said in another interview
that it was written by Jake Barber. That guy seems
really well informed, well researched. Then you read Sentinels of
the Ether, and then you go back and watch Barber's interview,
let me tell you, light bulbs are going to start
going off. But so that's an example of what I
mean when I'm saying I'm always in information acquisition mode.
(32:43):
And that's again one of the points on why I
brought up Barber, because what to me is so interesting
about him is he keeps leaning on the association between
the phenomena and consciousness and saying, that's the real way
that you establish contact again is through consciousness. That's what
you hear from all these ancient sources. And now you're
(33:04):
hearing somebody who came directly out of the military industrial
complex and apparently this legacy program and is telling you
the exact same thing. And what I love about that is,
to an extent, it allows you to extricate yourself from
the disclosure narrative where somebody else needs to give you disclosure,
somebody else needs to tell you what's real. And he's
kind of telling you I was going to say with
(33:26):
a wink in a nudge, but it's overt he's telling
you overtly, you do this through consciousness. So start experimenting
with your own consciousness. You don't need the external disclosure,
you don't need congress, you don't need a Lockheed Martin
or whoever to like. Take the tarp off the craft
apparently you can make contact yourself. So I think that's
a really important aspect of all of this that removes
(33:49):
a lot of the frustration and where you can be
frustrated with your own consciousness and your own blockages and
attempts to connect with whatever this is. And I like that,
you know, That's part of how I navigated is when
I do become frustrated with all of these stories, all
these whistleblowers, I remind myself, am I really doing the work?
Am I really how's my meditation practice? When is my
(34:11):
next you know, visionary trip planned? And I think that's important.
I think there's got to be a way that, at
least for me as a seeker, there's a certain point
where I need to disconnect from all the stories and
turn it back in on myself and ask myself, what
do I really want to get out of this to
begin with? Like what is it just entertainment? Is is
(34:33):
it a way for me to sense make or is
it a way for me to really learn something about
my own consciousness and where it sits within reality? And
to me, if it's not the latter, if it's not
that last thing I just said, it's sort of like
maybe who cares then if it's not going to change
my own onto logical position, my own understanding of reality,
(34:53):
what is this?
Speaker 4 (34:54):
No? I agree, man? You know, Jeffrey Hinton just recently
said a couple of days ago that the future AI
systems might be able to control humans just as easily
as an adult can control a three year old with candy. Well,
you can imagine how any of these intelligences that are
far superior than ours they could easily manipulate us. It
feels like we have this hubris to think that we
(35:17):
understand what is happening, at least perhaps at the government level.
It seems like they would think that when I doubt
they have a fraction of what the whole picture really is.
I feel like all of us are just in the
infancy of understanding our capabilities of how consciousness works, even
though these are old traditions. I think we are now,
with our technology, at the very infancy of this, and
(35:40):
that in one hundred years or five hundred years, we
are going to have a vastly different understanding and control
over our consciousness, just like these other entities probably already do.
Speaker 5 (35:51):
Yeah, I think that's one of the most terrifying but
very real possibilities that puts us in an incredible bind
as a species. And this again really evokes Valet a lot,
because he has this idea of the of this control
system right that's interacting with human consciousness and it's portraying
itself in all different kinds of ways, and at the
(36:13):
end of the day, it's almost like, we better hope
that whatever that has our best interests in mind, because
if not, it gets very dystopian very quickly, Like if
you have some higher AI intelligence or intelligence of any kind,
that's just like gaslighting human consciousness, manipulating human consciousness, because
my god, we're pretty easy to manipulate. I think, you know,
(36:35):
like show me your your typical guy, and I could
probably guess, well, like throw a honey trap here, throw
a couple dollars over this way, and we get that
guy going on that trail real fast.
Speaker 4 (36:47):
Look how easy is you can imagine somebody way beyond us.
It's just whing You bring up Vallet over and over
because you know, it's been this growing interesting idea that
alien encounters are tied to consciousness. Even people like John
Max seemed to believe this. Later on that the et
phenomenon was tied deeply to consciousness, and VLA used to
say that, you know, he thought, like a technology that
(37:09):
involves modifying consciousness. So these are hard science guys, you know.
Speaker 5 (37:14):
Yeah, it's spooky too because I think about my own
experiences and your mind starts to run wild, where you know,
these things happened to you like once in your life, right,
like once in your life. You might go out of body,
which you know happened to me at Monroe Institute, or
you have some experience in an ayahuasca ceremony that's just
utterly mind blowing that you you know, I random, my
(37:36):
journal effort happened. I just kept writing down that was real,
that was real, that was real because I knew two
three weeks down the line, I'd be like, was that
really real?
Speaker 4 (37:44):
You know?
Speaker 5 (37:44):
But it was so hyper real in the moment. And
then to confront the idea that that could have been
a manipulation, or that could have been some trickster intelligence
or technology messing with your mind, such a terrifying possibility
because if it's something has the ability to engineer experiences
that seem like the most meaningful, reality altering experience as
(38:09):
a human being, can have again. We pretty much have
no hope but to hope that that thing has our
best interest in mind.
Speaker 4 (38:15):
I hope that the other thing is true and that
it is real. Did I hear you have a Third
Eye Drops book club? I think this is such a
great idea. I love it. I used to always ask
every guest on my old shows, what should I read?
What should I read? You know, I kind of stopped
doing that, but I would love to ask you A
do you have that book club? And b give us
a couple of books that you feel are the best
(38:37):
that address the phenomenon.
Speaker 5 (38:39):
I do have one. It's just for patrons, so you
got to be a Third Eye Drops patron to get
in on it. I've sort of hit pause on it
because I'm just doing so many other things. But yeah,
we've read a ton of stuff, from fiction to nonfiction,
stuff about the phenomena, not about the phenomena, books like A.
Speaker 4 (38:56):
Vola's Phenomena by Jacobson.
Speaker 5 (38:59):
Phenomena is actually one of my favorite books on the
topic of SI. It's amazingly well researched. If you've heard
about Project Stargate and you have sort of like a
foggy idea of what went down there. Annie Jacobson's Phenomena
is an insanely well researched overview of the US government
and intelligence agencies involvement in psychic phenomena and way even
(39:19):
beyond remote viewing, though including remote viewing. Thanks for bringing
that one up. That really was one of my favorites.
We've read books like Invisible College by Valet, Operation Trojan
Horse by Keel, and then stuff like Theorgy and the
Soul by Shaw, which is another that has to do
with these ancient mystical traditions where you'll pick it up
you'll just think to yourself, holy shit, there is this
(39:42):
entire library of information that is lost that is being
alluded to by all of these ancient stages, and it
has everything to do with whatever these intelligences are. So yeah,
there's so many men. If you really approach with this
collective interest in the phenomena in the back of your mind,
you're going to find so many breadcrumbs. I hope you
(40:04):
grow to enjoy the labyrinth, because it's either going to
drive you crazy or you got to start to just
love the process and love the rabbit hole. And I
think that's where I'm at.
Speaker 4 (40:12):
That's where he's that guys. You can find him at
Third Eye Drops on YouTube. It's an outstanding podcast. I
highly recommend it. You can find me on Twitter and
Instagram at civ Underscore Captain Ron. Stay connected by checking
out contact indedesert dot com. Stay open minded and rational
as we explore the unknown right here on the iHeartRadio
and Coast to Coast am Paranormal Podcast Network.
Speaker 1 (40:44):
Thanks for listening to the iHeartRadio and Coast to Ghost
Ay and Paranormal Podcast Network. Make sure and check out
all our shows on the iHeartRadio app or by going
to iHeartRadio dot com
You're listening to the iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast DAM
Paranormal podcast network, where we offer you podcasts of the paranormal, supernatural,
and the unexplained. Get ready now for Beyond Contact with
Captain Wrong.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Welcome to our podcast. Please be aware the thoughts and
opinions expressed by the host are their thoughts and opinions only,
and do not reflect those of iHeartMedia, iHeartRadio, Coast to
Coast AM, employees of premier networks, or their sponsors and associates.
We would like to encourage you to do your own
(00:42):
research and discover the subject matter for yourself.
Speaker 3 (00:55):
Hey everyone, it's Captain ron and Each week on Beyond
Contact are the latest news in ufology, discuss some of
the classic cases and bring you the latest information from
the newest cases as we talked with the top experts.
Speaker 4 (01:11):
Welcome to Beyond Contact. I'm Captain Rona. Today we're joined
by Michael Phillip. Michael's a writer, speaker, creator and host
of Third Eye Drops podcast. The podcast blends consciousness exploration,
psychedelic philosophy, spirituality, technology, and esoteric ideas such as non
human intelligences, altered states, simulation theory ets and interdimensional phenomena.
(01:34):
He also explores the deep thinkers of history and their philosophies,
and he is a very curious person about the true
nature of reality. He's right up my ALLEI. Hey, Michael,
welcome to the show.
Speaker 5 (01:46):
How you doing doing well?
Speaker 1 (01:47):
Man?
Speaker 5 (01:47):
Doing well? I always like when I hear an introduction
that isn't something that I wrote, you know, four or
five years ago, and I cringe at and so, yeah,
that was a nice novel way to start things out,
and I agree with that assessment.
Speaker 4 (01:59):
It is man. So I've watched a lot of your
stuff and I really recommend it to everyone listening. And
much of what you talk about seems to be rooted
more in philosophies and ancient traditions. You're very well versed
in all of these areas, and I'm curious to hear
where do you sit today regarding the UFO phenomena?
Speaker 5 (02:18):
Yeah, Man, well, kind of like we were just alluding
to or talking about specifically actually before we were recording.
You know, when these experiences do happen with what you
perceive to be the other, right, there are so many
biases we have in terms of like I think the
first bias is we just want to understand, right, Like,
let's say you have some kind of anomalist experience with
(02:38):
something you can explain that feels intelligent beyond you. The
human mind wants to know. It wants to know what
bucket do I put this in? And alien is a
very clean bucket. You know, we can sort of understand
that it sort of makes sense with our modern POV.
But in my experience, if we're more intellectually honest, I
think it could be something that if it's in any
(03:00):
number of buckets and maybe none or maybe all of
them somehow in some kind of like a you know,
Jacques Valais kind of way, where it's like this intelligence
or system that can take on many different forms, including
what appears to be alien, including what appears to be
a Marian apparition or a faery or whatever. So I
(03:24):
think generally that's the kind of hypothesis I gravitate toward,
is that whatever this is, it's probably far beyond us.
It's probably rooted in consciousness, and it probably has the
ability to present itself in any number of ways. Also
very similar to like a John Keel, you know, ultra
terrestrial hypothesis sort of line of thinking I would say,
(03:48):
you know.
Speaker 4 (03:49):
In today's world, we're just flooded with misinformation, disinformation, misidentification
even and even intentional disinformation. Of course, so you also
point out how we can look to many of these old,
ancient traditions that can give us some insights to interacting
with the phenomenon.
Speaker 5 (04:06):
Right, yeah, because I think you know, whatever this is.
Of course, there's like modern UFO or like it starts
in the nineteen forties, you know, famous crashes like Roswell
et cetera. And there are some I feel like potential
coherent reasons for why it would have only just started then.
But I really gravitate toward the idea that whatever it
is has been going on for far, far longer than that,
(04:28):
And what's really shifted is our cultural and linguistic and
conceptual tool set for describing whatever this is. When you
go back to ancient Greece, for instance, their culture is
replete with non human intelligence. Right, You've got angels, you've
got daimonas which eventually become demons. You've got gods depending
(04:49):
on who you're reading, you've got hyper cosmic gods, and
maybe more interestingly and more harmonic with the UFO phenomena.
There are appearances that are talked about, appearances of lights appearing,
says of intelligence is you know, there are biblical stories
of people being taken up by angelic figures to the
throne of God. And I understand that these are like
(05:09):
controversial things to conflate, but I also feel like it's
too tempting not.
Speaker 4 (05:14):
To right on the note almost it's so parallel. And
why would we not call that a god. If we
went to a tribe that was disconnected and we showed
them an iPhone and you could talk to anyone in
the world, we would be gods. You know that kind
of a thing. Technology is god.
Speaker 5 (05:28):
Like, yes, And you know, with some of these more
current revelations from whistleblowers, there seems to be almost a
strange return to this. Have you noticed that, Like, there
seems to be a strange return to Yes, there's technology involved,
but you're not going to get to the root of
whatever this is unless you're asking the question through the
(05:48):
prism of consciousness, Like, through the prism of this is
not just reducible to nuts and bolts and some super
advanced civilization. There's something fundamentally consciousness based about all of this.
And when you start to marry those two things, like
hyper advanced technology with higher intelligence, you know, maybe maybe
(06:09):
something like a god or spiritual being isn't the worst
descriptor maybe it's closer to the truth. We're equally close
to the truth to alien. I'm not personally married to
any nomenclature at all.
Speaker 4 (06:20):
Right, but it's well phrased. The way you put that together.
It even reminded me of how you're using the word technology.
You know, Gallimore says DMT is not a drug, it's
a technology, you know, And it almost feels like these
ancient traditions, in this ancient way of thinking and the
ability to we probably had a better control of our
consciousness and maybe some of these siabilities two thousand years
(06:41):
ago more than we are five thousand years ago, more
than we have today, which is incredible. You know. I
like the idea that this material that you're talking about,
these ancient traditions, was there before cover ups and social
media and the lore building upon itself. You know, that's
a kind of a problem we have today because of
the proliferation of these stories. Now, that's why the early
accounts of UFOs or encounters with beings, because today, you know,
(07:05):
kids grow up seeing that on TV, which we didn't,
you know, fifty years ago. All of this disinformation encounter
intelligence that permeates our world. It affects the way these
things are since we're dealing with what, for the moment
is really a complete unknown. It's so hard to pin
down any of it for certain, But you can't examine
the phenomenon from so many different disciplines and see patterns
(07:28):
and themes and even specific accounts that seem to repeat
throughout history. Have you found that to be the case.
Speaker 5 (07:34):
Yeah, to some degree. But I think it gets tricky
because I think, on one hand, experiencer accounts and whistleblowers
and people at firsthand knowledge is such a double edged
short sword because simultaneously I think they are the most compelling,
but also, just due to human psychology, they can also
(07:57):
be the most dubious. Right, So it's it's hard to
ever separate wheat from the chaff in terms of like,
this person's real, this person's a liar, this person's a
disinformation agent, this person's legit. So I feel like that's
one of those things, those those pieces of dissonance when
you're trying to follow the breadcrumbs that you're always going
(08:19):
to run into, right because my favorite whistleblower might be
somebody who I say and you're like, oh, that guy's
a spook immediately, and then you run into this and
you can't know, right, like despite your best efforts, and
you know, Wow, that guy really seems legit to me,
That guy really seems like he has our best interest
in mind. At the end of the day, we just
don't know what that person's psychology is. So in some ways, yeah,
(08:39):
I do think that there does seem to be this
grammar to these experiences. It's weird because I put stock
in that. But then I also my intellect jumps in
and is like, or is there a grammar there? Because
there's like this weird emulation occurring. There's like this weird
mimetic fan fiction like occurring, you know. But I do
(09:00):
think they're probably if you made me just state yes
or no, do I think there's a there there? I
do think there is. I do think there's some overlap
to these experiences. That's that's real, right, And I do
think it runs from the ancient world to the modern.
But you've got to be it's so tricky because it's
just you either want to project the ancient onto the
(09:21):
modern or the modern onto the ancient. Right, you'd be like, no,
it's these beings that were interact It's the Onunaki that
the Mesopotamians were talking about, you know, six thousand years ago.
Or no, it's the Arctorians. That's who the Mesopotamians were
interacting with. And at the end of the day, I
just don't know. So, like I said, I'm not married
to any nomenclature. But if you examine the information carefully,
(09:45):
I do think that there's a grammar there, and I
think people like Jacquees prolet again do like just such
an amazing job of highlighting what these commonalities are outside
of the cultural associations, outside of the popular mythologies and
lower of the day.
Speaker 4 (10:01):
Yeah, there's no doubt in my mind that there is
something going on. There is something beyond our three D reality,
new Tonian physics, all of that. I really do believe
there's something beyond materialism. But that's almost like where it
ends for me, because I really just have absolutely no idea,
even if I've had an experience, it's so beyond us.
I feel like it's very difficult in our human terms,
at this level of technological development. To really have a
(10:23):
grasp of what's happening, we need to take a break here. Brother.
When we come back, we're going to continue this conversation
with Michael and delve into the actual alien beings, keeping
in mind that they may not be from another planet.
You're listening to Beyond Contact on the iHeartRadio and Coast
to Coast AM Paranormal podcast network. We are back at
(11:00):
and Beyond Contact. We're speaking with Michael Phillip from Third
Eye Drops. Michael. Not that long ago, it felt like
there was this idea that these ets were beings that
lived on another planet and traveled here in nuts and
boltz craft, like we talked about then. Over the years,
we've had these different ideas and stories of beings coming
from other places, like other dimensions, other timelines, different vibrational states,
(11:22):
hidden corners of Earth itself, coexisting here, spiritual beings, all
these different ideas, there is one more that I'd like
to touch on that sometimes gets overlooked, and that's the
idea that seems to also go back millennia, and that's
the notion of these metaphysical entities which are somehow based
in the evolution of our consciousness and perhaps even get
(11:43):
manifested to our reality that we may be able to
access through psychedelics like ayahuasca and DMT. What are your
thoughts about the accounts of these beings.
Speaker 5 (11:53):
Yeah, it's very compelling. And again this is sort of
where I gravitate on the Nhi question in gen is
that if you look to these stories, if you look
to shamanistic stories, ancient Greek stories, ancient Hindu stories, it's
all very similar. To just put it bluntly, it's all
very similar.
Speaker 4 (12:11):
Right.
Speaker 5 (12:11):
There's a world we live in, a three D world
of physical reality of things that if I'm looking at
it and no one moves it, it's going to stay
right there. If I park my car across the street,
it's going to be there when I get back. But
then there's this subtler realm that goes by many names, right,
and within this subtler realm, there are things that exist.
(12:32):
There are life forms, there are intelligences, there are other consciousnesses. Now,
if you're a South American shaman, you're going to call
those consciousnesses a whole panoply of certain things. If you're
an ancient Greek neoplatonic sage you're going to call them
something else, but the basic structure is the same that
there is this world that we live in, but behind
(12:53):
this world there is this subtler world. So again I
get a lot out of people like Keel and Valet
because it feels like they're trying to update what the
ancients we're talking about all along, not only and I
like that they update. Like Keel, for instance, you know
he talks about there being this sort of extended electromagnetic
spectrum perhaps like yes, we're we're aware of, you know,
(13:16):
this observable realm of phenomena that we can grock with
our senses, and now we have instrumentation that allows us
to use radio waves see radiation xyz. But there are
probably subtler realms, even beyond what we can currently measure
with our technology. And in those subtler realms there seem
to be intelligences, intelligences that can materialize, that can take
(13:40):
on a variety of forms, And to me, that harmonizes
so well with all the ancient stuff that it's hard
not to give those kind of hypotheses more credence than
what you were describing. You know, aliens that get in
a ship and then they like doot to do to do
for a really long time from another from another star
system until they get here. And admittedly they might be
extra terrest. There really might be beings that live on
(14:02):
other planets. I'm not trying to straw man that or
eliminate that.
Speaker 4 (14:06):
These things couldn't coexist. They both could be true.
Speaker 5 (14:09):
Yes, yes, And that's another thing I'm sensitive to, is
like drawing two need of a circle around any of
it and trying to boil it all down to one thing.
It's probably just another you know, artifact of human bias
or trying to.
Speaker 4 (14:20):
Get I think it's human nature that we want to
put in a box. Where does this go? All goes
over here? It's this wherever that is. But I think
the more I delve into this nonsense, I feel like
there's way more different realities happening simultaneous to the one
we're currently in. You know, the beings that people encounter
in the DMT world are often reported as reptilian, insectoid,
(14:44):
even mantislike, and the accounts state that these beings say
to them, this is not what we look like. We're
appearing this way. So you can grasp our presence, and
I think, what an odd thing that they would be
choosing to appear in a life form, and it happens
to be just like what people report when they claim
to have an et experience as similar bans. What do
(15:06):
you think about that.
Speaker 5 (15:07):
The morphology or form that they choose to take is
definitely a mysterious point now a human.
Speaker 4 (15:15):
Or an animal that we would grasp immediately.
Speaker 5 (15:18):
Yeah right, I'm just spitball. Well, first, let me say
I've talked to you mentioned Andrew Gallimore, you know, neuropharmacologists,
this guy who's become one of the biggest proselytizers of
d MT specifically, you know, wrote a number of books
like his new book Death by Astonishment, and you know,
alien information theory, reality switch technologies. He's a proponent of
(15:39):
this idea that you're talking about that whatever weighs this intelligence,
that this hyper intelligence, this higher dimensional whatever you want
to call it hyper intelligence, however it's portraying itself to
the human mind's eye, is not what it really is,
but it is taking on these forms, like you said,
mantus forum, reptilian form, whatever. And my gut, my intuition
(16:03):
is that it probably has something to do with not
just the intelligence but the mind of the person. Maybe
it's not even specifically like a top down decision on
the point of whatever it is. It's something about the
nature of that thing coupled with the individual's mind who's
perceiving it. Because I would guess ron like, if you
(16:24):
had an experience of a manted being and I also
had the experience of a manted being, there'd probably still
be weird differences in how I perceive it.
Speaker 4 (16:32):
And you'll pictured a chair right now, that'd be very different.
Speaker 5 (16:35):
Yes, yes, And I talked to do you know, Jeffrey Kreipel,
of course, yeah, brilliant guy, righty. We sort of got
hung up on this point in our conversation in a
way that was really just brain melting to me, which
is this point of things are occurring in an altered state,
you know, like I'm having this, for lack of a
better term, mind's eye experience, let's say, in an altered state.
(16:56):
But I am not consciously choosing, as we're talking about,
like what I'm seeing at all, but yet it is
appearing exclusively to me in my experience, and there does
seem to be this weird chooser of an image somewhere,
and I don't know if that chooser of the image
is in my mind, if it's external to my mind,
if it's a collision of my mind and the other thing,
(17:16):
and it's just making the most obvious outcome in the
form of a lizard being. I don't know, but it's
an interesting question.
Speaker 4 (17:24):
It is. And Michael, I'll tell you the first time
I heard it, you know what I thought. I thought.
You know, obviously all of this is wild speculation, but
maybe these beings are so advanced and so outside of
our concept of reality that to them, since they're let's
say they are energy beings or light beings or something
beyond you know, maybe they feel like they're manifesting in
(17:45):
a solid body that's part of our universe, because those
beings do exist on other planets in our universe, and
to them, well, we would know what that is because
we're part of this universe. You know, they're so beyond
us that they see it. They're not going to come
was humans or animals. They come as this other being
because they think that's all part of our universe. I
(18:06):
know that's out there, but it's just an idea, you know.
I want to ask you this didn't Carl Jung say
that all of these different archetypes are kind of baked
into our conscious mind. But these beings certainly don't seem
to be or am I missing that they are?
Speaker 5 (18:19):
Yeah, I mean, the question of archetypes is a very
compelling and interesting one, and I think it's it kind
of depends on what your a priori your you know,
your prior assumptions are about what an archetype is. Like
a lot of people, I think, incorrectly think that Yung
was saying this is all in your head, This is
all just an artifact of human psychology. These archetypes, these
(18:42):
archetypes don't really exist in and of themselves. But when
you read his more kind of esoteric stuff, like that
big read book that's behind me, that's like Jung's big
visionary book that he kept secret his whole life. He
was clearly very well read in all of this ancient
esoteric stuff, chemical stuff, ancient gnostic stuff, ancient platonic stuff.
(19:03):
So he was keenly aware that archetypes were not just
confined to the human mind, but to what he called
the collective unconscious, like the collective mind of all of
humanity and maybe even beyond humanity, right, and I think
maybe you know when these intelligences enter from Like let's
just say that there is this collective unconscious of all
(19:24):
of humanity, if they have their own consciousness, that can
even you know, navigate through our collective unconscious. Let's just visualize,
like there's two spaces. There's like a giant bubble that's
the human collective unconscious, and then there's an external thing
coming into the human collective unconscious. Maybe it has to
choose an image from our own a collective unconscious and subconscious.
(19:46):
Maybe it has to take some of what it really
is and combine it with what we know. I mean,
it's just so hard to know, but yeah, I mean
these are really archetypal, right, like reptilians, serpents, manted. Have
you ever seen those ancient like the ancient Mesopotamian I
think it is an onnaki thing of like the side
(20:07):
the side view of that reptilian looking beings that's holding
one of those weird bags, yeah, right, with his hand
out stretched.
Speaker 4 (20:14):
Which is all over the world that they hold these bags. Yeah, bizarre.
Speaker 5 (20:17):
So clearly these are things that have been in the
consciousness of humanity. Like as far back as our relics
goes years at least, John, So, I mean then that
respawns all kinds of new questions, right, Like, so were
these things that they were really encountering or these really
physical beings that came down on a ship? I don't know, man,
I mean all these all these questions end in and
(20:38):
I don't know, but they're supremely interesting and fun to
talk about.
Speaker 4 (20:41):
Like kicking around exactly. You just you just summed it up. Right.
When we come back, we're going to continue this conversation
with Michael and ask him his thoughts on reality not
being something we perceive, but perhaps something we participate in
shaped by consciousness itself. You're listening to Beyond Contact on
the iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast AM Paranormal podcast network.
(21:23):
We're back on Beyond Contact and we're getting some serious
third eye drops today from Michael Phillip. It feels like
a conversation we should be having at midnight, Michael, and
not so early here in the morning. So it's kind
of crazy. What about that idea, Michael, that reality may
not be something we simply perceive, but something we actually
actively participate in shaped by our consciousness itself.
Speaker 5 (21:46):
Yeah, there's a lot of ways we could go with
this too, you know, from the sort of you know,
modern new thought manifestation route simulation theory. But one thing
er I really gravitate toward, and you know, stay with
me here because this will eventually tie back into all
the phenomena and UFO stuff, though it may not sound
(22:07):
like it is. There's this cognitive scientist named doctor Donald
Hoffman yep, who is just absolutely brilliant. Like I mean,
this guy is just like you know, top level classically
trained intellect in math and hardcore cognitive science, you know,
like perception, and like this guy's written like technical textbooks
(22:30):
on perception. And what he believes is that this world
that we perceive that you were just mentioning, is just
an evolutionarily convenient illusion. It's like a computer desktop that
is not there to accurately portray reality. It's there to
let us know what will kill us, what will give
(22:50):
us a quote unquote evolutionary fitness payoff, you know, sex,
food status, whatever. But what's behind that usion is consciousness
and we are truly at our core what he calls
a conscious agent. So again to nutshell it we perceive
(23:10):
this computer desktop simulation world. But that's not what reality is.
What reality really is is what he calls this network
of conscious agents. And you know, if you talk to Don,
you can tell he has a lot of philosophical thoughts,
but he likes not to speculate too much about what
this realm of conscious agents is. But to me as
(23:32):
someone who is into all of this ancient stuff again
like I'm I'm particularly really into like neoplatonism and Platonism,
and even just explaining what I mean by that is
sort of like a rabbit hole that we might not
have time for. But they agree with what Don is saying.
But for them, these worlds of consciousness are populated by
(23:53):
a whole panoply of different kinds of beings, different ranks
of beings that I suspect have a lot to do
with what we now perceive as NHI or or alien intelligence.
And for them, the way that you got to the
truer reality was through the portal of your own consciousness,
was through through the portal of contemplation, ritual, uh technica
(24:19):
that's now lost to us, right, like things that you
if you pick up one of these old books and
you and you bash your brain against it and like
really try to read it. You're going to see that
there's some system that they're talking about. There's some initiations
they were talking about, some mystery schools or mystery initiations
they were talking about that they take extremely seriously. But
(24:41):
nowhere is it ever explicit. Nowhere does it say do this,
and then do this and then do this. Because that
was all like initiatory knowledge that only if if you know,
I would privately reveal to you after you know some
oath and you know, other things and study and all
this other stuff.
Speaker 4 (24:59):
Then they are that way too, because they have this knowledge,
they would't want to share that with everybody, right, right,
kind of like the technology of UFOs today. Yeah, one
one could correlate that.
Speaker 5 (25:11):
And you know, you take one look at social media, right,
and it's sort of clear why you would keep these
things for a small group of initiates, right, because if
if you let this knowledge out, everybody can just run
wild with it and say whatever they want about it,
and then that has this effect where it's just like
degrades it and also just muddies the waters. You know,
(25:31):
if everybody's talking about it and saying this is what
it is. No, this is what it is. Multiply that
times a million, and you've got social media. You got
you got you got Twitter ufo, right, which I love. Well,
let's be honest. It's it's a. It's a it's a
it's a it's a turbulent path to truth at best.
Speaker 4 (25:47):
What a nice, soft, safe way to say that. Well done. Yeah,
it's tough. Hey, you know, much of this feels so
beyond our level of understanding at this point. You know,
you and Chris Ramsey were discussing this notion of perhaps
these UFOs and or even the beings that fly these UFOs,
may actually be this autonomous, you know, reactive machines that
(26:11):
are perhaps proliferated throughout the universe and are just reacting
to what we do, that the real intelligence behind these
aren't even necessarily here. That this is you know, it's
a very interesting line of thinking, and it makes sense
on some level. You can imagine how an intelligence million
years ahead of us could look at this all so
(26:33):
completely differently than we do and just send out these
ais to explore and monitor other worlds and be programmed
to do certain things. You know, what are your thoughts
on all.
Speaker 5 (26:44):
That Yeah, it's a really interesting hypothesis that would explain
a lot. This notion that there is this and this
all kind of comes off the back of this now
famous Reddit whistleblower thread, claimed whistleblower thread, you know, where
this guy was claiming he worked on the inside of
this project. He's terminally ill, so screw it, I'm gonna
(27:09):
I'm gonna put all the information out. And this is
what he says. And Chris has covered this on his channel.
He's read through this whole transcript for anyone who's interested
in this. Super worth a watch. But that's what he
says is that hidden under the ocean, there are these
I forget the exact terminology he uses, but there are
these giants. Yeah yeah, these yeah, these giant mobile construction units.
(27:34):
That's it, These mobile construction units that are moving around
at like hyper speed underneath the ocean. They're massive, and
they essentially print UFOs on demand for whatever the need is.
And that's why we see the variety of shapes, because
one thing is better for one mission and other things
better for another mission. But then going even further, not
(27:55):
only are those made on demand, it seems like the
beings are made on demand as well, so that they
are these almost like biological drones and probably also psychical
drones based on what we know or what all the
lower seems to suggest that whatever these things are, and
whatever these craft are, they're being piloted psionically or psychically
(28:15):
by these things, because there's, again depending on which Laurie
you're reading, there seems to be like no controls inside
of these things. It's just a seat and that's it,
and it's something that the pilot psychically interacts with.
Speaker 4 (28:29):
Michael. It also parallels the et encounters and abduction experiences
where people say oftentimes that these ets the grays do
not appear to be biological necessarily, that they seem robotic
oftentimes that report.
Speaker 5 (28:44):
Yeah, yeah, so it's extremely compelling stuff. And you know,
Chris probably brought this up too. But Matthew Brown, the
recent whistleblower who spoke with Knapp and Corbell on weaponized.
Speaker 4 (28:58):
Constellation, right, yes, yeah.
Speaker 5 (29:00):
Immaculate constellation leaker, he used a built he said, built
to speck or built to purpose or made to purpose
or something in a way that was just so eerie.
If you've read that Reddit testimony from the apparent whistleblower
it seemed like he was saying almost the exact same thing,
that there are these mysterious points of origin mobile construction
(29:22):
units where these things are made to purpose. And then
again he starts getting into some of the weird nebulous
consciousness stuff, or at least suggesting it in a way
that's very tantalizing but ultimately very frustration frustrating, you know,
like it's like you're hitting at all of these huge
things but not spelling anything out, and that puts us
back on the corkboard with the yarn right where we're
(29:42):
trying to be like, well, this is agent esoteric thing,
sounds like what he's saying, But then we're just left
to spin our wheels.
Speaker 4 (29:49):
Isn't that how it is in ninety five percent of
all these ninety nine point nine percent of these cases. Listen,
we got to take a break here of Michael. When
we come back, we're going to continue this conversation and
talk about some of the various schools of thought that
are out there on where these intelligences may exist. You're
listening to Beyond Contact on the iHeartRadio and Coast to
Coast AM Paranormal podcast network. We're back on beyond Contact.
(30:35):
We're talking to Michael Phillip. Michael, listen. Listening to your
show and others, you start to hear all these different
schools of thought trying to explain what's happening, Going back
even to the ancient teachings that you study through today,
there's like all these different ideas. There's two earths and
ones more peaceful, and there's these different timelines, and there's
(30:55):
you know, beings traveling interdimensionally and then beings traveling outside
dimension that are above those beings. And there's entities that
are living adjacent to us, but they're on a different
vibrational level, beings living inside of Earth or the afterlife energy,
beings like beings. It goes on and on, but you
start thinking that maybe it's possible the universe is just
(31:16):
teaming with these various entities in these different realms, and
it's like you know, a giant MasterCard, like a little
tiny Venn diagram, and they just kind of are up
against each other and you kind of peek over, you know,
And on the other hand, you could start thinking, can
these all be right? It just doesn't seem possible. How
do you navigate so many different traditions.
Speaker 5 (31:37):
Yeah, man, it's PRECARYO. It's at best. What I ultimately
settle on is I think I'm always in knowledge acquisition mode.
Admittedly I'm not doing it in a systematic way. I'm
following whatever seems interesting to me, you know, whatever people
seem compelling and valid to me. I was actually just
revisiting today the long version of the Jake Barber interview.
(32:00):
Total side note, But have you heard about this fictionalized
account that people have widely started surmising is written by
Jake Barber called Sentinels of the Ether? Man. This is
a whole thing that I don't even know if I
should bring up at this point in the conversation. But anyway,
if you look up Sentinels of the Ether, you'll find
a bunch of people saying it seems to be written
(32:21):
by Jake Barber. Uap Gerb just said in another interview
that it was written by Jake Barber. That guy seems
really well informed, well researched. Then you read Sentinels of
the Ether, and then you go back and watch Barber's interview,
let me tell you, light bulbs are going to start
going off. But so that's an example of what I
mean when I'm saying I'm always in information acquisition mode.
(32:43):
And that's again one of the points on why I
brought up Barber, because what to me is so interesting
about him is he keeps leaning on the association between
the phenomena and consciousness and saying, that's the real way
that you establish contact again is through consciousness. That's what
you hear from all these ancient sources. And now you're
(33:04):
hearing somebody who came directly out of the military industrial
complex and apparently this legacy program and is telling you
the exact same thing. And what I love about that is,
to an extent, it allows you to extricate yourself from
the disclosure narrative where somebody else needs to give you disclosure,
somebody else needs to tell you what's real. And he's
kind of telling you I was going to say with
(33:26):
a wink in a nudge, but it's overt he's telling
you overtly, you do this through consciousness. So start experimenting
with your own consciousness. You don't need the external disclosure,
you don't need congress, you don't need a Lockheed Martin
or whoever to like. Take the tarp off the craft
apparently you can make contact yourself. So I think that's
a really important aspect of all of this that removes
(33:49):
a lot of the frustration and where you can be
frustrated with your own consciousness and your own blockages and
attempts to connect with whatever this is. And I like that,
you know, That's part of how I navigated is when
I do become frustrated with all of these stories, all
these whistleblowers, I remind myself, am I really doing the work?
Am I really how's my meditation practice? When is my
(34:11):
next you know, visionary trip planned? And I think that's important.
I think there's got to be a way that, at
least for me as a seeker, there's a certain point
where I need to disconnect from all the stories and
turn it back in on myself and ask myself, what
do I really want to get out of this to
begin with? Like what is it just entertainment? Is is
(34:33):
it a way for me to sense make or is
it a way for me to really learn something about
my own consciousness and where it sits within reality? And
to me, if it's not the latter, if it's not
that last thing I just said, it's sort of like
maybe who cares then if it's not going to change
my own onto logical position, my own understanding of reality,
(34:53):
what is this?
Speaker 4 (34:54):
No? I agree, man? You know, Jeffrey Hinton just recently
said a couple of days ago that the future AI
systems might be able to control humans just as easily
as an adult can control a three year old with candy. Well,
you can imagine how any of these intelligences that are
far superior than ours they could easily manipulate us. It
feels like we have this hubris to think that we
(35:17):
understand what is happening, at least perhaps at the government level.
It seems like they would think that when I doubt
they have a fraction of what the whole picture really is.
I feel like all of us are just in the
infancy of understanding our capabilities of how consciousness works, even
though these are old traditions. I think we are now,
with our technology, at the very infancy of this, and
(35:40):
that in one hundred years or five hundred years, we
are going to have a vastly different understanding and control
over our consciousness, just like these other entities probably already do.
Speaker 5 (35:51):
Yeah, I think that's one of the most terrifying but
very real possibilities that puts us in an incredible bind
as a species. And this again really evokes Valet a lot,
because he has this idea of the of this control
system right that's interacting with human consciousness and it's portraying
itself in all different kinds of ways, and at the
(36:13):
end of the day, it's almost like, we better hope
that whatever that has our best interests in mind, because
if not, it gets very dystopian very quickly, Like if
you have some higher AI intelligence or intelligence of any kind,
that's just like gaslighting human consciousness, manipulating human consciousness, because
my god, we're pretty easy to manipulate. I think, you know,
(36:35):
like show me your your typical guy, and I could
probably guess, well, like throw a honey trap here, throw
a couple dollars over this way, and we get that
guy going on that trail real fast.
Speaker 4 (36:47):
Look how easy is you can imagine somebody way beyond us.
It's just whing You bring up Vallet over and over
because you know, it's been this growing interesting idea that
alien encounters are tied to consciousness. Even people like John
Max seemed to believe this. Later on that the et
phenomenon was tied deeply to consciousness, and VLA used to
say that, you know, he thought, like a technology that
(37:09):
involves modifying consciousness. So these are hard science guys, you know.
Speaker 5 (37:14):
Yeah, it's spooky too because I think about my own
experiences and your mind starts to run wild, where you know,
these things happened to you like once in your life, right,
like once in your life. You might go out of body,
which you know happened to me at Monroe Institute, or
you have some experience in an ayahuasca ceremony that's just
utterly mind blowing that you you know, I random, my
(37:36):
journal effort happened. I just kept writing down that was real,
that was real, that was real because I knew two
three weeks down the line, I'd be like, was that
really real?
Speaker 4 (37:44):
You know?
Speaker 5 (37:44):
But it was so hyper real in the moment. And
then to confront the idea that that could have been
a manipulation, or that could have been some trickster intelligence
or technology messing with your mind, such a terrifying possibility
because if it's something has the ability to engineer experiences
that seem like the most meaningful, reality altering experience as
(38:09):
a human being, can have again. We pretty much have
no hope but to hope that that thing has our
best interest in mind.
Speaker 4 (38:15):
I hope that the other thing is true and that
it is real. Did I hear you have a Third
Eye Drops book club? I think this is such a
great idea. I love it. I used to always ask
every guest on my old shows, what should I read?
What should I read? You know, I kind of stopped
doing that, but I would love to ask you A
do you have that book club? And b give us
a couple of books that you feel are the best
(38:37):
that address the phenomenon.
Speaker 5 (38:39):
I do have one. It's just for patrons, so you
got to be a Third Eye Drops patron to get
in on it. I've sort of hit pause on it
because I'm just doing so many other things. But yeah,
we've read a ton of stuff, from fiction to nonfiction,
stuff about the phenomena, not about the phenomena, books like A.
Speaker 4 (38:56):
Vola's Phenomena by Jacobson.
Speaker 5 (38:59):
Phenomena is actually one of my favorite books on the
topic of SI. It's amazingly well researched. If you've heard
about Project Stargate and you have sort of like a
foggy idea of what went down there. Annie Jacobson's Phenomena
is an insanely well researched overview of the US government
and intelligence agencies involvement in psychic phenomena and way even
(39:19):
beyond remote viewing, though including remote viewing. Thanks for bringing
that one up. That really was one of my favorites.
We've read books like Invisible College by Valet, Operation Trojan
Horse by Keel, and then stuff like Theorgy and the
Soul by Shaw, which is another that has to do
with these ancient mystical traditions where you'll pick it up
you'll just think to yourself, holy shit, there is this
(39:42):
entire library of information that is lost that is being
alluded to by all of these ancient stages, and it
has everything to do with whatever these intelligences are. So yeah,
there's so many men. If you really approach with this
collective interest in the phenomena in the back of your mind,
you're going to find so many breadcrumbs. I hope you
(40:04):
grow to enjoy the labyrinth, because it's either going to
drive you crazy or you got to start to just
love the process and love the rabbit hole. And I
think that's where I'm at.
Speaker 4 (40:12):
That's where he's that guys. You can find him at
Third Eye Drops on YouTube. It's an outstanding podcast. I
highly recommend it. You can find me on Twitter and
Instagram at civ Underscore Captain Ron. Stay connected by checking
out contact indedesert dot com. Stay open minded and rational
as we explore the unknown right here on the iHeartRadio
and Coast to Coast am Paranormal Podcast Network.
Speaker 1 (40:44):
Thanks for listening to the iHeartRadio and Coast to Ghost
Ay and Paranormal Podcast Network. Make sure and check out
all our shows on the iHeartRadio app or by going
to iHeartRadio dot com
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