December 26, 2025 • 40 mins
Documentary Filmmaker Mark Christopher Lee joins Captain Ron to discuss one of the most classic UFO cases of all time……….The Rendlesham UFO………The British Roswell. Mark will detail this case as well as relate the story of he and his friend visiting the site.
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
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(00:42):
research and discover the subject matter for yourself.
Speaker 3 (00:56):
Hey everyone, it's Captain Ron and each week are Beyond.
Speaker 4 (01:00):
We'll explore the latest news in ufology, discuss some of
the classic cases, and bring you the latest information from
the newest cases as we talk with the top experts.
Speaker 3 (01:11):
Welcome to Beyond Contact. I'm Captain Rond. Today we're going
to be speaking with writer, producer, director, actor, musician Mark
Christopher Lee. He's an incredibly prolific musician, recording well over
seventy six albums and over five thousand songs, netting millions
of streams. He's here today because he's also a ufologist
and a filmmaker whose latest film looks at the Rendelscham
(01:34):
Forest case in England. Today, we're going to delve into
his thoughts on the Rendelshm case and UFOs in general.
He mark, nice to see you again, Bud.
Speaker 5 (01:43):
Yeah, you too, Captain Ron, thank you for inviting me back.
Speaker 3 (01:46):
Absolutely, you did this incredible journey through Rendelschems. So we
just passed the forty fifth anniversary of one of the
best UFO cases, which I think Rendelscham is, and you've
got a chance to visit it personally, actually go to
the site which is between these two military bases. You're
able to walk around there for your doc. What was
(02:08):
it like to actually be there?
Speaker 5 (02:10):
It was a magical moment, to be honest. It's a
very kind of mystical place for me. And you know,
like you said, it's in the UFO folklore now, one
of the best documented cases with the most evidence in
my opinion, And I've never been there before, and I've
spoken to so many people that have been there, and
actually why I made this film is that I've spoken
(02:32):
to people have been back there since nineteen eight and
had strange and explained experiences, so which is why we
decided to go and visit it and do an investigation
and do a PSIONICC five experiment for the film, so
that the whole day was amazing, one of the best
work days of my life.
Speaker 3 (02:51):
So these people are having these experiences nowadays. You're saying, well,
you know, thirty forty fifty years after the first the film.
Speaker 5 (02:58):
Yeah, that's what the film focuses on because people have
told the nineteen eighty story before, and we did go
into that a little bit, and our as executive producer
is retired police officer John Hanson, and he co authored
two books with Colonel Charles Holt, so we had that
as background to the nineteen eighty sighting, which was great.
(03:20):
But yeah, we've spoken to people that have been back
and claim to have manifested UFOs or had strange noises,
various even encrypted encounters, so we interviewed them for the film.
But then we did our own investigation and we had
some amazing results. Have to say, you know, you.
Speaker 3 (03:39):
Talk about it in the doc how the year nineteen
eighty happened to have a lot of UFOs sightings. Is
that what you found out as well?
Speaker 5 (03:47):
Yeah? Absolutely, I wasn't aware of that until John Hanson,
the executive producer. He's got this brilliant UFO archive in
Stratford upon Avon, thousands and thousands of documented UFOs items
in the UK and box he's investigated rentalship. But he
said to me, look, it's not just that weekend around Christmas.
(04:07):
The whole year leading up to that was a bit
of a wave in Norfolk and Suffolk in the UK,
and there you know, signs of UFOs USO is coming
off the North Sea because we have to realize that
Rendersville is quite close to the sea. So there was
definitely something going on that year and I've got a
few conclusions on what that might be, but it was
(04:29):
a bit of a wave. Yeah, definitely.
Speaker 3 (04:31):
It's interesting you're saying there's sightings now because I think
you also mentioned that there are off and on bitings
and strange things going back to the forties in that area.
Speaker 5 (04:42):
Yeah, absolutely, going back. Yeah, I think nineteen forty something
was the earliest sighting that we had nearby. But then
going back into ancient English history, the whole area has
had unexplained phenomena. You had the will of the wisps,
the lantern men on the f this crypto critic called
the Black Shook the Black Dog, which is supposed to
(05:05):
be the devil taking the form of a dog, and
the local church in Bungay not far away, it's got
the claw marks of this dog and this devil. So yeah,
there's a lot of unexplained phenomena in that area. And
I'm also nearby, just a few miles away is the
Anglo Saxon burial called Sutton Who, which is a well
famous site. So there's lots of weirdness about the place.
(05:27):
And you know, in the modern times UFOs, I guess
I scene that's very cool.
Speaker 3 (05:33):
When you were there, you also found some metal. Saw
you pick up some metal? Did you ever get that
tested or find out what that could have been?
Speaker 5 (05:39):
Yeah? Yeah, it's basically it's really really old, probably eighteenth
century iron basically, probably from probably agricultural in origin. From
the people that were there. It was nothing to do
with the UFO.
Speaker 3 (05:54):
I was wondering if you thought it was the UFO
or it was going to be a beer can from
the eighties.
Speaker 5 (05:59):
I don't know, very heavy UFO. Probably the reason why
we kept that in the film though, is that in
the real world, UFA investigators go out there. There's a
lot of things, a lot of dead ends, there's a
lot of work done with no results, and we wanted
to keep it real. We didn't want to edit out
and just put the good bits in and make up
stuff right. So sure, a lot of people, but we
(06:20):
wanted to keep it. It's two guys and our approaches
like we're two guys best mates talking UFOs down the pub,
but we're taking it out into you know, intorendouslym on
the field. That's our approach to it. And some people
like it, and some people it's.
Speaker 3 (06:34):
A lot of waiting to wait too for people like you,
don't they think you go out for a CE five
and two minutes later they show up every time and
it's just not like that.
Speaker 5 (06:43):
It's not like that at all. And I mean to
be honest, we did get very lucky, I thought, with
what we captured. The strange electronic sounds, Yeah.
Speaker 3 (06:51):
We heard those sounds. Don't you think there could have
been some type of cricket dead series.
Speaker 5 (06:56):
I know, I don't think so. I mean, for context,
I've got a degree in environmental studies, quite a favor
of the ecology of the area, and it wasn't something natural.
Obviously what you heard was coming across from from the
mic on the camera, but while you were there, it
was reverberating more. It's very quite of electronic, is how
(07:16):
I describe it. But you know, it may be maybe
explained laid down the line, but we can't at the moment.
And it kind of coincided us with us seeing orbs
in the woods.
Speaker 3 (07:27):
And you couldn't tell which direction it was coming from either.
Speaker 5 (07:30):
No, no, it was passed around, it did. It was
very disoriented and probably what doesn't come across it was
it kind of psychologically affected us, especially esther, our assistant director.
She was she was the woman that involved with me
and Guy later on, she was actually our assistant director
because Guy and I started did See five wasn't going
very well because he was drinking too much guinness and
(07:52):
kind of a bit of falling out. So we needed
someone else to just to raise the vibration and because
there's no one there in the mids the nowhere, and
it was like, okay, so that's that you So we
you know, slightly contrived a situation where she came along
and helped us. But her reaction was one hundred percent
genuine and where she picked up the dowsing rods. They
(08:13):
were spinning around. She never used thousand words before. She
didn't know what was supposed to happen with them. She
was genuinely freaked.
Speaker 3 (08:19):
Out and go woo, how fun cool.
Speaker 5 (08:23):
So that was really cool. And also we had the
emf met it was just spiking out of nowhere all
the time. It's like so it was the combination of
all this different phenomenon. It was like, something's going on.
Speaker 3 (08:35):
I did enjoy that. You cut from talking to an
expert and C five and she says, well, whatever you do,
don't drink alcohol. Boom, cut to your buddy pounded Againnis
and then you're doing it.
Speaker 6 (08:48):
I'm like, wow, yeah he was told and yeah it
was both Cherylne and Ray Dove both told us not
to drink.
Speaker 5 (08:58):
Alcohol or do recorrection, not drugs or anything that's going
to affect you psychologically. And you know, she did make
the point that if you were drinking, maybe it would
affect the type of manifestation or experience, which I think
he was a bit freaked out and a bit scared.
So there you go.
Speaker 3 (09:14):
So funny. Is there anything else out there interesting that happened?
What I mean, besides these noises, did you did you
have any other phenomenon happened to you while you're there?
Speaker 5 (09:22):
Yeah? I mean the strangest thing for me, to be honest,
was when I got back home. It was a really
long day filming. Absolutely Kna could have had a long
drive to get there as well. And it was the
early hours of the morning, and I was just laying
down on my bed and all I could see was
ones and zeros in front of me. No way, yeah, yeah,
(09:43):
you know, And we didn't talk about that in the
film very much. It wasn't a big part of it.
Speaker 3 (09:48):
I always fund you know, why do that That's the
most interesting thing that's happened. Why why would we put
that in the film? I think that's amazing.
Speaker 5 (09:54):
You know. And I was trying to kind of debunk
it myself, thinking, well, I'm tired, my brain. Brain could
be playing tricks. I know about the Jim Peniston story,
but that really wasn't prevalent on my mind at the time.
But I've never had it before in my life.
Speaker 3 (10:09):
I was going to ask you that, so you've never
had that happen, and then that is curious to me?
Write anything down?
Speaker 5 (10:16):
Did you No, No, I've got to wait another fifteen
years and then write a book.
Speaker 3 (10:21):
Well that's right, Yeah, there you go. You know, there's
plenty of people that try to dismiss or explain away
this case. And one of the big things was that
the lights were from this distant lighthouse. As you said,
this is close to the coast. Yeah, they say that
that was the beam and everything. Could you see where
the lighthouse is and could you imagine that that?
Speaker 5 (10:40):
Yeah? I mean I think the thing is with the lighthouse,
you probably could be able to see it in certain conditions.
It wouldn't be very bright. The US servicemen would have
been aware of it as well. And if you listen
to Charles Holt's Dictafie recording, he talks about this blinking
nye with the molten metal coming down off it.
Speaker 3 (11:00):
That's not a lighthouse absolutely. I always thought that was
absolutely a silly swamp gas type of Yeah, explanation, I'm
looking for a practical explanation, but that just doesn't fit
at all. I guess I can break there. Mark. When
we come back, we're going to ask you about more
of the research you've done on Rundelsham. You're listening to
be on Contact on the iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast
(11:22):
Paranormal podcast network. We are back on Beyond Contact and
we're speaking with Mark Christopher Lee about the rundolsrom Forest
UFO case. You know, looking around it when you were there, Mark,
(11:43):
did it feel like you could imagine what they say
happened could have happened right there? Did it ring true
for you?
Speaker 5 (11:52):
It did? Yeah, But then I guess you've got to
take into account it could be just your psychology and
brain playing tricks. But yeah, you could soak up the
atmosphere and you know, you see the east skate as well.
And then we had to coordinates given to us by
John Hanson via Colonel Halt of where everything took place,
which is why we head to where we headed. So yeah,
(12:14):
we were putting ourselves in their shoes. I guess a
little bit interesting.
Speaker 3 (12:18):
What originally made you choose the runus from Forest incident
as opposed to something else that you felt like this
needed an investigation?
Speaker 5 (12:25):
Absolutely? Yeah, I mean it was I guess it was
talking to John Hanson going through his archive and he's
got like every year's got a liver arch file of
UFA cases in the UK. And there's lots of them.
But then you get to nineteen eighty and render him
there's like a whole warfall. It was like, oh, and
I'm just going through those files. In there so much
(12:48):
evidence that people are just not aware of that. Definitely
something happened that weekend. What it was is still up
for grabs, but definitely something happened. And we have to
realize that a US military personnel that were affected physically,
you know, medically psychologically by what happened that weekend, and
you know they've been given medical payouts by the US military.
(13:10):
Eventually something happened to them. You can't deny that.
Speaker 3 (13:14):
Yeah, we just don't know what it is, but clearly
something happened to these guys. They all did have some
physiological effects from that. Now your doc focus is mostly
of you guys being on the site and walking around
and exploring the site. Did you get a chance to
interview any of the witnesses or research their accounts?
Speaker 5 (13:33):
Not really, because that wasn't the focus of the film.
It did start off because we had John Hanson as
executive producer and we were going to get Charles Holt over,
but it just didn't work out. He wasn't very well
at the time, so it didn't It didn't work out,
but that would have given the film a different angle.
So we decided to imress ourselves in the accounts that
(13:53):
people like Philip Kinsella who'd been there and did a meditation.
It wasn't called C fiveer psionics in the nineteen nineties.
That didn't exist. It was just called chilling out meditation,
but the same same process, really using your mind to
manifest something really it claims to. You know, Philip Canseeller
claims to have manifested the pyramid shaped ufo, which I thought, wow,
(14:16):
that's amazing. But also John Hanson he showed me the
photographs of orbs and he told me this account of
stones dropping out the forest sky they called reports, just
studying on the forest floor, and it's like, whoa, that's crazy.
And he showed me the stones, and he showed me
the reports that were sent off to a lab to
be analyzed, and like they'd just been formed, had no
(14:37):
trace elements or any any or anything, and that it
was just like and they were warm to touch as well.
So I thought that was very very strange, and I
explained and he also had another experience where him and
some fellow Rendushian researchers went down there, did a meditation,
hung out and they captured a UFO on camera and
that's actually a little clip in the film as well.
Speaker 3 (14:59):
So yeah, it's very cool now. So but you, I know,
you didn't get a chance to talk directly with those guys,
but you're familiar with the case of those Obviously, the
three mean guys, Charles Balls obviously have a connection there,
Jim Peniston, John Burrows. All of these guys took contemporaneous
notes of one form or another during the setting. Do
you find these guys to be credible?
Speaker 5 (15:20):
Absolutely, one hundred percent. I don't doubt their credibility at all.
I mean, it's difficult because I don't want to question
what they saw on their accounts. What happened to them,
for them was real, but what it was maybe it
was some strange prototype new weapon or craft that had
some electromagnetic properties which may be disorientated and affected people's perceptions.
(15:46):
I don't know, but that's.
Speaker 3 (15:48):
There's discrepancies between those three.
Speaker 5 (15:51):
You could explain, Yeah, I could explain them, because you know,
they were perceiving what was real to them, But they
could be affected by some being external affecting their thought
process and how they interact with this phenomena.
Speaker 3 (16:05):
And you know, if there's a car crash and you
interview five people that witnessed it, you're going to get
five different stories because it's from their view. To be honest,
you absolutely, the stories aren't like they one saw a
blue ship and one saw a redship. It's not that
there's tiny little discrepancies and about where and where and
what angle and time and that kind of thing. It's
(16:26):
not we didn't see anything and we did. Yeah. I
know it's a little controversial, but there are at least
two other witnesses that do have different accounts of what happened,
and they're going to be in an upcoming documentary called
Cappel Green by Dion Johnson. Are you familiar with the
accounts of those guys like Larry Warren and Steve Longero.
Speaker 5 (16:47):
I am with Larry Warren a little bit, not with Steve,
and I am aware of the film. It looks really
good taking a different approach, and I think this harked
back to definitely something happened that weekend, and I think
a lot of it was tried to be covered up,
and a lot of people that the witnesses were interviewed
by us. I don't know what you want to call them.
Speaker 3 (17:10):
Yeah, Io Ashley call it or whatever, and they try
to trying to steer the narrative, right.
Speaker 5 (17:15):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely, So we don't know. They've been
messed with basically mentally, their brains have been messed with,
which may account for discrepancies and different interpretations of what happened.
I know Larry Warren is a controversial figure within this,
but then kind of a lot of what he said.
I've actually interviewed someone called Major Laurie Redvelt. She was
(17:35):
stationed just before the Rendoshi Forest incident in December nineteen eighty.
She was transferred away, but she was there in nineteen
eighty and she claims to have experienced, you know, non
human intelligence in terms of meeting the gray alien and
different cryptid creatures before these events. And she's a very
credible person and I've interviewed her and she kind of
(17:58):
vouches for what happened to Laura to Larry Warren as well.
So at the end of the day, I don't know,
but I think everyone should be ginning the chance to
tell their story.
Speaker 3 (18:08):
This is a little bit of a unique case in
that it's not like there was one incident boom, the
thing came down, they saw it. It kind of takes
place over two, three, maybe even four nights, depending on
whose account you're hearing. It seems like there's separate, multiple
events that happened over this short time period. There's kind
(18:28):
of been woven into a narrative. Is that right?
Speaker 5 (18:31):
Yeah? That adds to the intrigue, isn't it. There's something
definitely was going on. Looking back at it, we have
to look objectively and taken to the account the context
of the whole thing. It was nineteen eighty height of
the Cold War. We're on NATO air bases which have
got nuclear weapons, but also nearby. Not many people know this,
(18:53):
but all for ness where the lass was there was
also a secret radar testing station, and also not far away,
there was an other secret high tech based testing all
sorts of weapons at marsham He and you know Mendous
and forests banks back in the middle. It's like, is
that coincidence? I doubt it.
Speaker 3 (19:13):
Yeah, it's interesting, and I do feel like there is
a there could be easily be something going on here
with them trying to interview each of the witnesses and
maybe steering them. I've talked to a few of these
guys that claim to be in the counterintelligence and it's
not like they tell them no, you didn't see a UFO,
No you didn't. They just nudge them a little bit
(19:36):
off the place they want them to go. Like in
this case, they kind of nudge them away from the
people that claimed saw an entity. I think it's easier
for them to explain away lights in the sky because
they could say that was a mistake. But an entity
is another level, you know.
Speaker 5 (19:52):
I know, how do you explain why that?
Speaker 3 (19:55):
Yeah, that's.
Speaker 5 (19:58):
Where did they come from? Yeah? Who will? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (20:01):
And what was it? And was it really there? And
was it physical? And who saw what when? And it's
just it's like they just purposely inject these things with
doubt and confusion, and it's enough to make some people go, Okay,
I'm out, I don't I'm not sure what happened here.
Speaker 5 (20:19):
Yeah, I mean this can be a large to the
whole UFO, you know, movement at large. What's going on?
Why we're not getting disclosure because the lodging us away
from certain parts, aren't they really at the end of
the day, controlling the agenda.
Speaker 3 (20:35):
Yeah, they definitely seem to be wanting to control the
narrative to their to their facts. Let's take a break there, Mark,
we come back. We're going to ask you about the
strongest evidence that was there that this was an off
world event. You're listening to be on Contact on the
iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast AM Paranormal podcast network. We
(21:09):
are back on Beyond Contact speaking with Mark Christopher Lee
about the Rundelsom Forest UFO case. Mark, what is the
evidence in this case that makes people think that this
might have been an alien or non human event.
Speaker 5 (21:23):
There's a couple of things that stand out for me
that there's Charles Holt's dictaphone recording that he took out
in the field when he went to investigate these lights,
you know, and he sees this blinking eye, and he
sees molten metal coming out of this craft or whatever
it is, and then it shooting off up into the
air into different parts.
Speaker 3 (21:43):
I thought that was a lighthouse.
Speaker 5 (21:47):
Some crazy lighthouse. There is crazy, So that explained away easily,
like lighthouses or misidentification. And then there's Jim Peniston's testimony
where you know, he said a craft landed, then he
went up and touched it. It had strange higeraglylyphics on
it and had the whole binary code download, which I
was always a bit suspect with, but then having my
(22:09):
own binary code experience, like maybe this is incredible. Yeah,
it was like, I can't explain what happened to me,
and so yeah, there's definitely something otherworldly about it. But
whether it's you know, a psychological response to a natural
event of some exotic technology, I don't know. I'm kind
(22:29):
of heading that way a little bit.
Speaker 3 (22:31):
Certainly in your case, because you're going in with the
preconceived notion you know that this happened to Jim Peniston,
so that could be rolling around the back of your brain.
But in nineteen eighty, before we all knew about binary
code and computers, Jim Peniston didn't have this on his brain. Yeah,
that's a really good point. Actually, you know, there's a
lot of evidence here too. There's the radiation readings that
(22:54):
were taken there and the inside of those trees where
they said the craft was Yeah, the march.
Speaker 5 (22:59):
In the round, yeah, absolutely, and damage to the tree
line as well, which was all documented. We also trolled
through the files the original UFO civilian investigators that went
out there, Brenda Butler dot Street, Peter Parish, and we
actually found a map just detailing where the craft was,
but also it states that there were six craft. There
(23:21):
wasn't just one, okay, and these were recovered by the
military and taken to Germany to a NATO bet in Germany.
That's what we discovered. And there's an investigator called Peter
Parish is one of the one of the locals that
looked at it, and he detailed the maps. And there's
there's also further witnesses that have yet to be interviewed
(23:44):
from the Territorial Army, which is like the Silver Guard
I guess you would call them in the US who
were camping nearby and they were witnessed to this as well.
So we think, yeah, we.
Speaker 3 (23:56):
Don't really hear about those folks, the people that military witnesses,
you know, no, I know.
Speaker 5 (24:02):
And there was a lot of research done by by them,
and you know, including the damage done to the to
the tree line, so's something definitely physical happened. You've got
a higher than level background radiations with Nick Pope, the
MD investigator confirmed as well the indentations. And then you've
got Colonel Charles Holt's memo. He wrote this Mamma explaining
(24:23):
everything that happened, sent it to the UK Ministry of Defense.
It wasn't meant for public public eyes.
Speaker 3 (24:31):
Right right? Really great that we have that came out. Yep. Yeah.
Speaker 5 (24:35):
I have to say. The other thing that I became
aware of after the film was like, not many people
aware of this, but just twenty four hours later we
have the cash Landrum incident in Huffman, Texas. Is that
a coincidence? We've got a craft that's giving off some
radiation which seriously affected two main adult witnesses with suffer
(24:56):
I'll help one of them die from it. And that's
all been documented. And if it's this kind of diamond
shaped craft emitting something being followed by black helicopters, you know,
that's that's really weird as well.
Speaker 3 (25:08):
So it's a very good tie in. Man absolutely could
be related. The last piece of evidence I was going
to mention is, you know, Jim Penison did even take
castings of the impressions the craft left, so we do
have a lot of physical evidence and testimony for a
case That's what makes this case really really strong. I
think after looking everything that you've had, you've been to
(25:31):
the site, you've looked through the accounts of these guys,
what do you think happened there?
Speaker 5 (25:38):
We'll go back to researcher and author Georgina Brunei unfortunately
in along with us, but brilliant brilliant research or an author,
and she researched Randall, shechrm wrote a book about it.
But she also spoke off the record to Prime Minister
at the time, Margaret Thatcher, and she asked, Margaret Thatcher,
what you know, Rendersry what happened? And she said, it
wasn't aliens, But you can't tell the people. Why can't
(25:59):
you tell the people? Maybe because knowing where it's situated,
we have offered nests radar testing. We have marsham Heath
another secret testing station. Were they testing some new craft
app which may be part of the same program Reagan
was doing. They were testing out, you know, Huffman Texas
which led to the Cash Landrum, possibly part of the
same program. I don't know. Maybe some exotic technology giving
(26:22):
off radiation affecting people's perceptions of what happened. I don't know,
it's a theory quite credible. I mean I would love
it to be aliens, don't get me wrong. It goes
back to the whole thing. People say, UFOs, what are they?
There's no one single answer. They're aliens, interdimensional their time travelers,
(26:43):
they're humanology. Yeah, yeah, there's all sorts of our technology,
of osse engineered technology. There's no one simple answer.
Speaker 3 (26:51):
And there is this idea that the entire Runners from
UFO case has been distorted intentionally and it's you know,
been deliberately framed as a UFO case to obscure something else,
which is what you're alluding to now with thatcher. You know,
maybe it's military technology and they don't want to say
what they have. They rather have people just think it's aliens.
(27:12):
It's you know that we're not as advanced as they say.
Speaker 5 (27:15):
Yeah, definitely, I think that's where I'm heading at the moment.
But I too. I've spoken to research or professor Simon
Holland about this as well, and he's proposed this theory.
He reckons that maybe they're using super advanced physics which
kind of went wrong, maybe open some sort of portal
of a dimension, which is why people still experience weird
(27:36):
phenomena at Randelsham. Now, you know, I'm not exaggerating. People
go there every weekend in the UK to witness stuff.
They do to hang out, and they have mostly paranormal experiences.
You know. It's a big place where people go to.
It's really really interesting, but it's happening all the time.
Speaker 3 (27:52):
Did seeing the site in person change your view as
to what you thought happened or was your sum and
before you actually went there the same.
Speaker 5 (28:02):
No, I mean it did change me as a person.
I think what we witnessed and experienced ourselves was a
bit scary, to be honest, and was I don't know.
I couldn't rationalize it. I've got a science degree. I'm
always trying to debunk myself and my own experience with
especially the binary code. When I came home, but also
on the way back to the car after filming really
(28:24):
late at night, the cameras went on, it was pitch black.
We heard this really weird howl like a wolf. It
was like a really really loud crypton noise. It was
like scary and it's scared that Jesus out of us
all and so we were kind of running back to
the car in the dark, and it's like, what was that?
We don't have walls in the UK, Okay, there's nothing
(28:45):
like that, and it's what is that? And then it's
like there's been talk of Nick Redfern talked about the
Rendalshom shrug monkey, which is a bit like a big
foot sasquatch type creature, and it's like, is that here
as well? Is it all just you know, in brains?
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (29:03):
And that's where the whole wherewoll thing was too back,
that's where that happened.
Speaker 5 (29:07):
Right.
Speaker 3 (29:08):
How does this case compare to other UFO cases you've researched.
Speaker 5 (29:12):
Yeah, it's definitely the best one in the UK by
a long way. I think the close second, which I
need to do more of research on it is pen
Turk in Wales, which is a similar type of incident
where the military came and removed something locals saw a
UFO crash land whatever you want to say, and there
was a lot of physical evidence left behind there. That's
(29:34):
a really good case. And you know there's others in
Whales as well. Broad Haven School incident where school children
saw this is in nineteen seventy nine ers, I mean,
and they saw you know, UFO Land and aliens get out,
and I've seen the original drawings that these kids drew
straight after this and it's like, whoa, They're amazing. They
(29:54):
can't be explained. Something happened.
Speaker 3 (29:56):
That's seventy nine, one year before rundleshom very interesting. When
we come back, we're going to ask Mark about his
views on the UFOs and the UK versus our views
here in the US, you're listening to Beyond Contact and
the iHeartRadio on Coast to Coast am Paranormal Podcast Network.
(30:28):
We are back on Beyond Contact speaking with Mark Christopher
Lee about the Rendolstrom Forest UFO case. Mark. In the US,
Roswell is a well known subject and it's synonymous with UFOs.
Is that what Rendalstroom's like in England.
Speaker 5 (30:43):
It's the nearest thing. The reason why I made these
UFO films that did the previous one about the royal
families interests in UFOs and the Royal families were specifically
interested in the Rendolstrom case as well, and the Rendolstrom
one is to try and generate more public debate about
this because in public, no one talks about UFOs really
(31:05):
like the US, where it's some of the major news
networks now and you know, it's a big thing, whereas
in the UK it's still very much jokey Joki snigger snigger.
But I have to qualify that because I go around
some a lot of film festivals and a lot of
networking events music and films or whatever, and I'll have
my UFO T shirt or something like that. People always
come up to me. They've always got a story. So
(31:28):
everyone's had some sort of encounter or experience. So I
think once they know it's okay to talk about it,
they will. You know, I get contact ten times a
day with people sending me clips the stuff they've seen
in the UK. A lot of it can be explained,
but some of it can't. We need to catch up
with the US, in my opinion, and taking it more
(31:48):
seriously and getting more academic scientists politicians involved. And it's
really really difficult.
Speaker 3 (31:55):
It is. I mean, I think it's been about ten
years now that this has happened in America that we
finally have changed. It was way different before twenty seventeen,
you know, unlike Roswell, this happened thirty three years later.
So it's still possible to talk to all these witnesses,
the witnesses that we have, and you and I have
just talked about there's this guy, there's this faction, there's
(32:18):
all these different accounts of what happened. Does the government
in the UK seem to be even interested in pursuing this.
It seems like somebody ideally the government should pin all
these guys down and get to the bottom of what
happened and put all their stories together.
Speaker 5 (32:34):
They should do, but they're not. I mean, I've written
to the Prime Minister about this, but I've had their response,
and I know John Hanson has as well. I mean,
you had more interest John Hanson from the Queen like
Queen and l like Prince Philip. They were interested. They
want to know what went on. But I think that
there's definitely been a cover up. And one of the
(32:57):
interviewees in the film Richard Lawrence from the Arias Society,
he was one of the original investigators on the scene
in nineteen eighty. You know, he phoned up Woodbridge and
was on the phone chatting to someone about it and
so are you talking about the UFO that landed and
things like that, and basically she was told to stop
talking about it. It's classified, and it was shut down
(33:18):
that Molly was on the phone, So I think there's
definitely a cover up of what happened. Maybe because they're
protecting some technology that were testing out. I don't know,
maybe it was part of Thatcher and Reagan doing Star
Wars together. I don't know.
Speaker 3 (33:31):
If it's alien, they don't want us to know about that.
If it's not alien, it's their secret tech, they don't
want us to know about it. One way or another,
they definitely would want to cover it up. It just
makes logical sense right either way.
Speaker 5 (33:43):
Absolutely. Yeah, what do you think would.
Speaker 3 (33:44):
Happen today if we had one of these massive cases
like a Roswell, like a Rendell shim or even like
the Phoenix lights. You know, nowadays everyone's got a camera
in their pocket, everyone has access to social media. Could
we be just one more of these big cases away
from changing the worldview on this topic.
Speaker 5 (34:04):
Yeah? Absolutely, And I think that's how we're going to
get what if you want to call it disclosure. It's
not through governments or nations. It's going to be from
the people releasing the information, releasing the evidence collectively. I
think that's what's going to happen it's going to be
a glass roots thick. But you're right, if something big happens,
we'd be all over it.
Speaker 3 (34:23):
But you know, one hundred percent, you know, I don't
think we're any closer to disclosure here in America, although
some people feel that we are. But we are at
least having congressional hearings, and there are people in government,
high level government, talking seriously about this. They just had
a film come out called The Age of Disclosure, which
(34:44):
has a lot of very high level guys very openly
talking about this subject, something we wouldn't have seen ten
years ago. Are you seeing anything like that happening in
the UK?
Speaker 5 (34:56):
No, to be honest, although qualify that me and other
UFO researchers in the UK, we're getting contacted by proper whistleblowers,
people in the military that have had encounters that want
to go on record publicly, but they don't feel confident
enough they haven't got that backing or from the government
(35:19):
to do that. So I think it could happen, and
I think there's a lot of credible witnesses and whistleblowers
that want to come forward to testify like they have
done in the US.
Speaker 3 (35:29):
Yeah, i'd like to get these guys before they age
out of this. I'd like to get as many of
these witnesses and record as we can so we can
put together what we think might be happening. You know,
there's of course a lot of speculation that UFOs have
an interest in our nuclear weapons. Of course, do you
think that may have been why they were at Rundels
from there?
Speaker 5 (35:50):
Yeah, I think there's definitely a connection because a few
of the witnesses claimed to have seen beams of light come
down from whatever was in the sky onto the nuclear
storage area. Why would that be? I mean? But also
if that was some secret technology be testing, why would
they be doing that unless it was Russian or I
don't know.
Speaker 3 (36:09):
Yeah, if you're testing a new technology, do you fly
it over a nuclear weapons storage base? You know, That's
something that I've never heard anybody bring up. And it
makes a really strong point. Is this where I know
you're not going to test it over Phoenix because that's
a population, But would you test it right over nuclear weapons?
That doesn't make any sense.
Speaker 5 (36:26):
It doesn't make any sense, does it, you know? And
we talked about what the physical evidence. Definitely something we
haven't not many people realized that also, they had these
big outdoor lights called white tools that were malfunctioning because
there's something electromagnetic going on, and you know these have
been tested recently, but they were going out and weren't
working right. Something was happening.
Speaker 3 (36:48):
A lot of things happened electronically. That's another piece of evidence.
We didn't mention their radios were going down. There were
all kinds of electronic interference, which is something we often
hear on these UFO cases.
Speaker 5 (36:59):
Of course, absolutely, yeah.
Speaker 3 (37:01):
Mark, what do you think is going to be next
for you? Are you going to go to Wales? Do
you have another case on your radar that you want
to visit? Do you have what's your plan?
Speaker 5 (37:09):
Yeah, there's a couple of things. We want to do,
something similar to the Age of Disclosure in terms of
getting these whistleblowers there is really good witnesses on camera,
try and get them some protection from from the government.
There was talk of having a meeting with someone from
the house lords. That never materialized, but I'm pushing for
(37:31):
that as well, to try and try and get the
whole disclosure movement growing here in the UK. But then
also to investigate the other most credible case, which is
pent Turke and Wales and one of the main witnesses.
She's come forward and you know she's been shut down.
She wrote to the King. The King wrote back saying
you couldn't talk about it. We didn't deny that anything.
(37:52):
You know, it didn't say nothing happened.
Speaker 3 (37:55):
Right right, that's telling as well.
Speaker 5 (37:57):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely, Yeah.
Speaker 3 (37:59):
You need that watershed moment. I mean we had that
New York Times article in twenty seventeen that really did
tip things over and then boom they were on sixty
minutes and boom it was on the next thing. And
now it's definitely a different climate here, which is great.
Speaker 5 (38:13):
Yeah, that's what we need. And yeah, we need to
keep on pushing the politicians over here and the media
because the media, especially likes of the BBC, won't cover it.
I mean, we are getting a little bit of coverage
on the Renderssian film because of the forty fifth anniversary
this Christmas, so we'll see how that goes. Yeah, you know,
(38:35):
it's difficult to get mainstream media to take it seriously
in the UK.
Speaker 3 (38:38):
Well, the bottom line is, man, I feel like you're
out there doing it. You're making you're recording your music,
you're shooting your docs. You're going to these places live
and in person, and I just think that's great. Man.
You're somebody that's living their life and really not just
reading about this stuff, but you're investigating it. You're going
to the sites. I think it's awesome and thanks for
(38:59):
sharing all that with us today. What's the best place
that people can find you? Mark?
Speaker 5 (39:04):
Sure, I'm on social media. I'm applicking of UFOs on TikTok, Instagram,
on x.
Speaker 3 (39:11):
At the King of UFOs.
Speaker 5 (39:12):
Okay, there you go, So please contact me with any
stories or any information. I'm always happy to help.
Speaker 3 (39:17):
Thank great sounds good, Mark, I appreciate it. You guys
can find me on Twitter and Instagram at CID Underscore
Captain Ron. Stay connected by checking out contact Inthethdesert dot com.
Stay open minded and rational as we explore the unknown
right here on the iHeartRadio and Past to Coast am Paranormal.
Speaker 1 (39:44):
Thanks for listening to the iHeartRadio and Coast to Ghost
Day and Paranormal podcast network. Make sure and check out
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You're listening to the iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast DAM
Paranormal podcast network, where we offer you podcasts of the paranormal, supernatural,
and the unexplained. Get ready now for Beyond Contact with
Captain Ron.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Welcome to our podcast. Please be aware the thoughts and
opinions expressed by the host are their thoughts and opinions only,
and do not reflect those of iHeartMedia, iHeartRadio, Coast to
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We would like to encourage you to do your own
(00:42):
research and discover the subject matter for yourself.
Speaker 3 (00:56):
Hey everyone, it's Captain Ron and each week are Beyond.
Speaker 4 (01:00):
We'll explore the latest news in ufology, discuss some of
the classic cases, and bring you the latest information from
the newest cases as we talk with the top experts.
Speaker 3 (01:11):
Welcome to Beyond Contact. I'm Captain Rond. Today we're going
to be speaking with writer, producer, director, actor, musician Mark
Christopher Lee. He's an incredibly prolific musician, recording well over
seventy six albums and over five thousand songs, netting millions
of streams. He's here today because he's also a ufologist
and a filmmaker whose latest film looks at the Rendelscham
(01:34):
Forest case in England. Today, we're going to delve into
his thoughts on the Rendelshm case and UFOs in general.
He mark, nice to see you again, Bud.
Speaker 5 (01:43):
Yeah, you too, Captain Ron, thank you for inviting me back.
Speaker 3 (01:46):
Absolutely, you did this incredible journey through Rendelschems. So we
just passed the forty fifth anniversary of one of the
best UFO cases, which I think Rendelscham is, and you've
got a chance to visit it personally, actually go to
the site which is between these two military bases. You're
able to walk around there for your doc. What was
(02:08):
it like to actually be there?
Speaker 5 (02:10):
It was a magical moment, to be honest. It's a
very kind of mystical place for me. And you know,
like you said, it's in the UFO folklore now, one
of the best documented cases with the most evidence in
my opinion, And I've never been there before, and I've
spoken to so many people that have been there, and
actually why I made this film is that I've spoken
(02:32):
to people have been back there since nineteen eight and
had strange and explained experiences, so which is why we
decided to go and visit it and do an investigation
and do a PSIONICC five experiment for the film, so
that the whole day was amazing, one of the best
work days of my life.
Speaker 3 (02:51):
So these people are having these experiences nowadays. You're saying, well,
you know, thirty forty fifty years after the first the film.
Speaker 5 (02:58):
Yeah, that's what the film focuses on because people have
told the nineteen eighty story before, and we did go
into that a little bit, and our as executive producer
is retired police officer John Hanson, and he co authored
two books with Colonel Charles Holt, so we had that
as background to the nineteen eighty sighting, which was great.
(03:20):
But yeah, we've spoken to people that have been back
and claim to have manifested UFOs or had strange noises,
various even encrypted encounters, so we interviewed them for the film.
But then we did our own investigation and we had
some amazing results. Have to say, you know, you.
Speaker 3 (03:39):
Talk about it in the doc how the year nineteen
eighty happened to have a lot of UFOs sightings. Is
that what you found out as well?
Speaker 5 (03:47):
Yeah? Absolutely, I wasn't aware of that until John Hanson,
the executive producer. He's got this brilliant UFO archive in
Stratford upon Avon, thousands and thousands of documented UFOs items
in the UK and box he's investigated rentalship. But he
said to me, look, it's not just that weekend around Christmas.
(04:07):
The whole year leading up to that was a bit
of a wave in Norfolk and Suffolk in the UK,
and there you know, signs of UFOs USO is coming
off the North Sea because we have to realize that
Rendersville is quite close to the sea. So there was
definitely something going on that year and I've got a
few conclusions on what that might be, but it was
(04:29):
a bit of a wave. Yeah, definitely.
Speaker 3 (04:31):
It's interesting you're saying there's sightings now because I think
you also mentioned that there are off and on bitings
and strange things going back to the forties in that area.
Speaker 5 (04:42):
Yeah, absolutely, going back. Yeah, I think nineteen forty something
was the earliest sighting that we had nearby. But then
going back into ancient English history, the whole area has
had unexplained phenomena. You had the will of the wisps,
the lantern men on the f this crypto critic called
the Black Shook the Black Dog, which is supposed to
(05:05):
be the devil taking the form of a dog, and
the local church in Bungay not far away, it's got
the claw marks of this dog and this devil. So yeah,
there's a lot of unexplained phenomena in that area. And
I'm also nearby, just a few miles away is the
Anglo Saxon burial called Sutton Who, which is a well
famous site. So there's lots of weirdness about the place.
(05:27):
And you know, in the modern times UFOs, I guess
I scene that's very cool.
Speaker 3 (05:33):
When you were there, you also found some metal. Saw
you pick up some metal? Did you ever get that
tested or find out what that could have been?
Speaker 5 (05:39):
Yeah? Yeah, it's basically it's really really old, probably eighteenth
century iron basically, probably from probably agricultural in origin. From
the people that were there. It was nothing to do
with the UFO.
Speaker 3 (05:54):
I was wondering if you thought it was the UFO
or it was going to be a beer can from
the eighties.
Speaker 5 (05:59):
I don't know, very heavy UFO. Probably the reason why
we kept that in the film though, is that in
the real world, UFA investigators go out there. There's a
lot of things, a lot of dead ends, there's a
lot of work done with no results, and we wanted
to keep it real. We didn't want to edit out
and just put the good bits in and make up
stuff right. So sure, a lot of people, but we
(06:20):
wanted to keep it. It's two guys and our approaches
like we're two guys best mates talking UFOs down the pub,
but we're taking it out into you know, intorendouslym on
the field. That's our approach to it. And some people
like it, and some people it's.
Speaker 3 (06:34):
A lot of waiting to wait too for people like you,
don't they think you go out for a CE five
and two minutes later they show up every time and
it's just not like that.
Speaker 5 (06:43):
It's not like that at all. And I mean to
be honest, we did get very lucky, I thought, with
what we captured. The strange electronic sounds, Yeah.
Speaker 3 (06:51):
We heard those sounds. Don't you think there could have
been some type of cricket dead series.
Speaker 5 (06:56):
I know, I don't think so. I mean, for context,
I've got a degree in environmental studies, quite a favor
of the ecology of the area, and it wasn't something natural.
Obviously what you heard was coming across from from the
mic on the camera, but while you were there, it
was reverberating more. It's very quite of electronic, is how
(07:16):
I describe it. But you know, it may be maybe
explained laid down the line, but we can't at the moment.
And it kind of coincided us with us seeing orbs
in the woods.
Speaker 3 (07:27):
And you couldn't tell which direction it was coming from either.
Speaker 5 (07:30):
No, no, it was passed around, it did. It was
very disoriented and probably what doesn't come across it was
it kind of psychologically affected us, especially esther, our assistant director.
She was she was the woman that involved with me
and Guy later on, she was actually our assistant director
because Guy and I started did See five wasn't going
very well because he was drinking too much guinness and
(07:52):
kind of a bit of falling out. So we needed
someone else to just to raise the vibration and because
there's no one there in the mids the nowhere, and
it was like, okay, so that's that you So we
you know, slightly contrived a situation where she came along
and helped us. But her reaction was one hundred percent
genuine and where she picked up the dowsing rods. They
(08:13):
were spinning around. She never used thousand words before. She
didn't know what was supposed to happen with them. She
was genuinely freaked.
Speaker 3 (08:19):
Out and go woo, how fun cool.
Speaker 5 (08:23):
So that was really cool. And also we had the
emf met it was just spiking out of nowhere all
the time. It's like so it was the combination of
all this different phenomenon. It was like, something's going on.
Speaker 3 (08:35):
I did enjoy that. You cut from talking to an
expert and C five and she says, well, whatever you do,
don't drink alcohol. Boom, cut to your buddy pounded Againnis
and then you're doing it.
Speaker 6 (08:48):
I'm like, wow, yeah he was told and yeah it
was both Cherylne and Ray Dove both told us not
to drink.
Speaker 5 (08:58):
Alcohol or do recorrection, not drugs or anything that's going
to affect you psychologically. And you know, she did make
the point that if you were drinking, maybe it would
affect the type of manifestation or experience, which I think
he was a bit freaked out and a bit scared.
So there you go.
Speaker 3 (09:14):
So funny. Is there anything else out there interesting that happened?
What I mean, besides these noises, did you did you
have any other phenomenon happened to you while you're there?
Speaker 5 (09:22):
Yeah? I mean the strangest thing for me, to be honest,
was when I got back home. It was a really
long day filming. Absolutely Kna could have had a long
drive to get there as well. And it was the
early hours of the morning, and I was just laying
down on my bed and all I could see was
ones and zeros in front of me. No way, yeah, yeah,
(09:43):
you know, And we didn't talk about that in the
film very much. It wasn't a big part of it.
Speaker 3 (09:48):
I always fund you know, why do that That's the
most interesting thing that's happened. Why why would we put
that in the film? I think that's amazing.
Speaker 5 (09:54):
You know. And I was trying to kind of debunk
it myself, thinking, well, I'm tired, my brain. Brain could
be playing tricks. I know about the Jim Peniston story,
but that really wasn't prevalent on my mind at the time.
But I've never had it before in my life.
Speaker 3 (10:09):
I was going to ask you that, so you've never
had that happen, and then that is curious to me?
Write anything down?
Speaker 5 (10:16):
Did you No, No, I've got to wait another fifteen
years and then write a book.
Speaker 3 (10:21):
Well that's right, Yeah, there you go. You know, there's
plenty of people that try to dismiss or explain away
this case. And one of the big things was that
the lights were from this distant lighthouse. As you said,
this is close to the coast. Yeah, they say that
that was the beam and everything. Could you see where
the lighthouse is and could you imagine that that?
Speaker 5 (10:40):
Yeah? I mean I think the thing is with the lighthouse,
you probably could be able to see it in certain conditions.
It wouldn't be very bright. The US servicemen would have
been aware of it as well. And if you listen
to Charles Holt's Dictafie recording, he talks about this blinking
nye with the molten metal coming down off it.
Speaker 3 (11:00):
That's not a lighthouse absolutely. I always thought that was
absolutely a silly swamp gas type of Yeah, explanation, I'm
looking for a practical explanation, but that just doesn't fit
at all. I guess I can break there. Mark. When
we come back, we're going to ask you about more
of the research you've done on Rundelsham. You're listening to
be on Contact on the iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast
(11:22):
Paranormal podcast network. We are back on Beyond Contact and
we're speaking with Mark Christopher Lee about the rundolsrom Forest
UFO case. You know, looking around it when you were there, Mark,
(11:43):
did it feel like you could imagine what they say
happened could have happened right there? Did it ring true
for you?
Speaker 5 (11:52):
It did? Yeah, But then I guess you've got to
take into account it could be just your psychology and
brain playing tricks. But yeah, you could soak up the
atmosphere and you know, you see the east skate as well.
And then we had to coordinates given to us by
John Hanson via Colonel Halt of where everything took place,
which is why we head to where we headed. So yeah,
(12:14):
we were putting ourselves in their shoes. I guess a
little bit interesting.
Speaker 3 (12:18):
What originally made you choose the runus from Forest incident
as opposed to something else that you felt like this
needed an investigation?
Speaker 5 (12:25):
Absolutely? Yeah, I mean it was I guess it was
talking to John Hanson going through his archive and he's
got like every year's got a liver arch file of
UFA cases in the UK. And there's lots of them.
But then you get to nineteen eighty and render him
there's like a whole warfall. It was like, oh, and
I'm just going through those files. In there so much
(12:48):
evidence that people are just not aware of that. Definitely
something happened that weekend. What it was is still up
for grabs, but definitely something happened. And we have to
realize that a US military personnel that were affected physically,
you know, medically psychologically by what happened that weekend, and
you know they've been given medical payouts by the US military.
(13:10):
Eventually something happened to them. You can't deny that.
Speaker 3 (13:14):
Yeah, we just don't know what it is, but clearly
something happened to these guys. They all did have some
physiological effects from that. Now your doc focus is mostly
of you guys being on the site and walking around
and exploring the site. Did you get a chance to
interview any of the witnesses or research their accounts?
Speaker 5 (13:33):
Not really, because that wasn't the focus of the film.
It did start off because we had John Hanson as
executive producer and we were going to get Charles Holt over,
but it just didn't work out. He wasn't very well
at the time, so it didn't It didn't work out,
but that would have given the film a different angle.
So we decided to imress ourselves in the accounts that
(13:53):
people like Philip Kinsella who'd been there and did a meditation.
It wasn't called C fiveer psionics in the nineteen nineties.
That didn't exist. It was just called chilling out meditation,
but the same same process, really using your mind to
manifest something really it claims to. You know, Philip Canseeller
claims to have manifested the pyramid shaped ufo, which I thought, wow,
(14:16):
that's amazing. But also John Hanson he showed me the
photographs of orbs and he told me this account of
stones dropping out the forest sky they called reports, just
studying on the forest floor, and it's like, whoa, that's crazy.
And he showed me the stones, and he showed me
the reports that were sent off to a lab to
be analyzed, and like they'd just been formed, had no
(14:37):
trace elements or any any or anything, and that it
was just like and they were warm to touch as well.
So I thought that was very very strange, and I
explained and he also had another experience where him and
some fellow Rendushian researchers went down there, did a meditation,
hung out and they captured a UFO on camera and
that's actually a little clip in the film as well.
Speaker 3 (14:59):
So yeah, it's very cool now. So but you, I know,
you didn't get a chance to talk directly with those guys,
but you're familiar with the case of those Obviously, the
three mean guys, Charles Balls obviously have a connection there,
Jim Peniston, John Burrows. All of these guys took contemporaneous
notes of one form or another during the setting. Do
you find these guys to be credible?
Speaker 5 (15:20):
Absolutely, one hundred percent. I don't doubt their credibility at all.
I mean, it's difficult because I don't want to question
what they saw on their accounts. What happened to them,
for them was real, but what it was maybe it
was some strange prototype new weapon or craft that had
some electromagnetic properties which may be disorientated and affected people's perceptions.
(15:46):
I don't know, but that's.
Speaker 3 (15:48):
There's discrepancies between those three.
Speaker 5 (15:51):
You could explain, Yeah, I could explain them, because you know,
they were perceiving what was real to them, But they
could be affected by some being external affecting their thought
process and how they interact with this phenomena.
Speaker 3 (16:05):
And you know, if there's a car crash and you
interview five people that witnessed it, you're going to get
five different stories because it's from their view. To be honest,
you absolutely, the stories aren't like they one saw a
blue ship and one saw a redship. It's not that
there's tiny little discrepancies and about where and where and
what angle and time and that kind of thing. It's
(16:26):
not we didn't see anything and we did. Yeah. I
know it's a little controversial, but there are at least
two other witnesses that do have different accounts of what happened,
and they're going to be in an upcoming documentary called
Cappel Green by Dion Johnson. Are you familiar with the
accounts of those guys like Larry Warren and Steve Longero.
Speaker 5 (16:47):
I am with Larry Warren a little bit, not with Steve,
and I am aware of the film. It looks really
good taking a different approach, and I think this harked
back to definitely something happened that weekend, and I think
a lot of it was tried to be covered up,
and a lot of people that the witnesses were interviewed
by us. I don't know what you want to call them.
Speaker 3 (17:10):
Yeah, Io Ashley call it or whatever, and they try
to trying to steer the narrative, right.
Speaker 5 (17:15):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely, So we don't know. They've been
messed with basically mentally, their brains have been messed with,
which may account for discrepancies and different interpretations of what happened.
I know Larry Warren is a controversial figure within this,
but then kind of a lot of what he said.
I've actually interviewed someone called Major Laurie Redvelt. She was
(17:35):
stationed just before the Rendoshi Forest incident in December nineteen eighty.
She was transferred away, but she was there in nineteen
eighty and she claims to have experienced, you know, non
human intelligence in terms of meeting the gray alien and
different cryptid creatures before these events. And she's a very
credible person and I've interviewed her and she kind of
(17:58):
vouches for what happened to Laura to Larry Warren as well.
So at the end of the day, I don't know,
but I think everyone should be ginning the chance to
tell their story.
Speaker 3 (18:08):
This is a little bit of a unique case in
that it's not like there was one incident boom, the
thing came down, they saw it. It kind of takes
place over two, three, maybe even four nights, depending on
whose account you're hearing. It seems like there's separate, multiple
events that happened over this short time period. There's kind
(18:28):
of been woven into a narrative. Is that right?
Speaker 5 (18:31):
Yeah? That adds to the intrigue, isn't it. There's something
definitely was going on. Looking back at it, we have
to look objectively and taken to the account the context
of the whole thing. It was nineteen eighty height of
the Cold War. We're on NATO air bases which have
got nuclear weapons, but also nearby. Not many people know this,
(18:53):
but all for ness where the lass was there was
also a secret radar testing station, and also not far away,
there was an other secret high tech based testing all
sorts of weapons at marsham He and you know Mendous
and forests banks back in the middle. It's like, is
that coincidence? I doubt it.
Speaker 3 (19:13):
Yeah, it's interesting, and I do feel like there is
a there could be easily be something going on here
with them trying to interview each of the witnesses and
maybe steering them. I've talked to a few of these
guys that claim to be in the counterintelligence and it's
not like they tell them no, you didn't see a UFO,
No you didn't. They just nudge them a little bit
(19:36):
off the place they want them to go. Like in
this case, they kind of nudge them away from the
people that claimed saw an entity. I think it's easier
for them to explain away lights in the sky because
they could say that was a mistake. But an entity
is another level, you know.
Speaker 5 (19:52):
I know, how do you explain why that?
Speaker 3 (19:55):
Yeah, that's.
Speaker 5 (19:58):
Where did they come from? Yeah? Who will? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (20:01):
And what was it? And was it really there? And
was it physical? And who saw what when? And it's
just it's like they just purposely inject these things with
doubt and confusion, and it's enough to make some people go, Okay,
I'm out, I don't I'm not sure what happened here.
Speaker 5 (20:19):
Yeah, I mean this can be a large to the
whole UFO, you know, movement at large. What's going on?
Why we're not getting disclosure because the lodging us away
from certain parts, aren't they really at the end of
the day, controlling the agenda.
Speaker 3 (20:35):
Yeah, they definitely seem to be wanting to control the
narrative to their to their facts. Let's take a break there, Mark,
we come back. We're going to ask you about the
strongest evidence that was there that this was an off
world event. You're listening to be on Contact on the
iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast AM Paranormal podcast network. We
(21:09):
are back on Beyond Contact speaking with Mark Christopher Lee
about the Rundelsom Forest UFO case. Mark, what is the
evidence in this case that makes people think that this
might have been an alien or non human event.
Speaker 5 (21:23):
There's a couple of things that stand out for me
that there's Charles Holt's dictaphone recording that he took out
in the field when he went to investigate these lights,
you know, and he sees this blinking eye, and he
sees molten metal coming out of this craft or whatever
it is, and then it shooting off up into the
air into different parts.
Speaker 3 (21:43):
I thought that was a lighthouse.
Speaker 5 (21:47):
Some crazy lighthouse. There is crazy, So that explained away easily,
like lighthouses or misidentification. And then there's Jim Peniston's testimony
where you know, he said a craft landed, then he
went up and touched it. It had strange higeraglylyphics on
it and had the whole binary code download, which I
was always a bit suspect with, but then having my
(22:09):
own binary code experience, like maybe this is incredible. Yeah,
it was like, I can't explain what happened to me,
and so yeah, there's definitely something otherworldly about it. But
whether it's you know, a psychological response to a natural
event of some exotic technology, I don't know. I'm kind
(22:29):
of heading that way a little bit.
Speaker 3 (22:31):
Certainly in your case, because you're going in with the
preconceived notion you know that this happened to Jim Peniston,
so that could be rolling around the back of your brain.
But in nineteen eighty, before we all knew about binary
code and computers, Jim Peniston didn't have this on his brain. Yeah,
that's a really good point. Actually, you know, there's a
lot of evidence here too. There's the radiation readings that
(22:54):
were taken there and the inside of those trees where
they said the craft was Yeah, the march.
Speaker 5 (22:59):
In the round, yeah, absolutely, and damage to the tree
line as well, which was all documented. We also trolled
through the files the original UFO civilian investigators that went
out there, Brenda Butler dot Street, Peter Parish, and we
actually found a map just detailing where the craft was,
but also it states that there were six craft. There
(23:21):
wasn't just one, okay, and these were recovered by the
military and taken to Germany to a NATO bet in Germany.
That's what we discovered. And there's an investigator called Peter
Parish is one of the one of the locals that
looked at it, and he detailed the maps. And there's
there's also further witnesses that have yet to be interviewed
(23:44):
from the Territorial Army, which is like the Silver Guard
I guess you would call them in the US who
were camping nearby and they were witnessed to this as well.
So we think, yeah, we.
Speaker 3 (23:56):
Don't really hear about those folks, the people that military witnesses,
you know, no, I know.
Speaker 5 (24:02):
And there was a lot of research done by by them,
and you know, including the damage done to the to
the tree line, so's something definitely physical happened. You've got
a higher than level background radiations with Nick Pope, the
MD investigator confirmed as well the indentations. And then you've
got Colonel Charles Holt's memo. He wrote this Mamma explaining
(24:23):
everything that happened, sent it to the UK Ministry of Defense.
It wasn't meant for public public eyes.
Speaker 3 (24:31):
Right right? Really great that we have that came out. Yep. Yeah.
Speaker 5 (24:35):
I have to say. The other thing that I became
aware of after the film was like, not many people
aware of this, but just twenty four hours later we
have the cash Landrum incident in Huffman, Texas. Is that
a coincidence? We've got a craft that's giving off some
radiation which seriously affected two main adult witnesses with suffer
(24:56):
I'll help one of them die from it. And that's
all been documented. And if it's this kind of diamond
shaped craft emitting something being followed by black helicopters, you know,
that's that's really weird as well.
Speaker 3 (25:08):
So it's a very good tie in. Man absolutely could
be related. The last piece of evidence I was going
to mention is, you know, Jim Penison did even take
castings of the impressions the craft left, so we do
have a lot of physical evidence and testimony for a
case That's what makes this case really really strong. I
think after looking everything that you've had, you've been to
(25:31):
the site, you've looked through the accounts of these guys,
what do you think happened there?
Speaker 5 (25:38):
We'll go back to researcher and author Georgina Brunei unfortunately
in along with us, but brilliant brilliant research or an author,
and she researched Randall, shechrm wrote a book about it.
But she also spoke off the record to Prime Minister
at the time, Margaret Thatcher, and she asked, Margaret Thatcher,
what you know, Rendersry what happened? And she said, it
wasn't aliens, But you can't tell the people. Why can't
(25:59):
you tell the people? Maybe because knowing where it's situated,
we have offered nests radar testing. We have marsham Heath
another secret testing station. Were they testing some new craft
app which may be part of the same program Reagan
was doing. They were testing out, you know, Huffman Texas
which led to the Cash Landrum, possibly part of the
same program. I don't know. Maybe some exotic technology giving
(26:22):
off radiation affecting people's perceptions of what happened. I don't know,
it's a theory quite credible. I mean I would love
it to be aliens, don't get me wrong. It goes
back to the whole thing. People say, UFOs, what are they?
There's no one single answer. They're aliens, interdimensional their time travelers,
(26:43):
they're humanology. Yeah, yeah, there's all sorts of our technology,
of osse engineered technology. There's no one simple answer.
Speaker 3 (26:51):
And there is this idea that the entire Runners from
UFO case has been distorted intentionally and it's you know,
been deliberately framed as a UFO case to obscure something else,
which is what you're alluding to now with thatcher. You know,
maybe it's military technology and they don't want to say
what they have. They rather have people just think it's aliens.
(27:12):
It's you know that we're not as advanced as they say.
Speaker 5 (27:15):
Yeah, definitely, I think that's where I'm heading at the moment.
But I too. I've spoken to research or professor Simon
Holland about this as well, and he's proposed this theory.
He reckons that maybe they're using super advanced physics which
kind of went wrong, maybe open some sort of portal
of a dimension, which is why people still experience weird
(27:36):
phenomena at Randelsham. Now, you know, I'm not exaggerating. People
go there every weekend in the UK to witness stuff.
They do to hang out, and they have mostly paranormal experiences.
You know. It's a big place where people go to.
It's really really interesting, but it's happening all the time.
Speaker 3 (27:52):
Did seeing the site in person change your view as
to what you thought happened or was your sum and
before you actually went there the same.
Speaker 5 (28:02):
No, I mean it did change me as a person.
I think what we witnessed and experienced ourselves was a
bit scary, to be honest, and was I don't know.
I couldn't rationalize it. I've got a science degree. I'm
always trying to debunk myself and my own experience with
especially the binary code. When I came home, but also
on the way back to the car after filming really
(28:24):
late at night, the cameras went on, it was pitch black.
We heard this really weird howl like a wolf. It
was like a really really loud crypton noise. It was
like scary and it's scared that Jesus out of us
all and so we were kind of running back to
the car in the dark, and it's like, what was that?
We don't have walls in the UK, Okay, there's nothing
(28:45):
like that, and it's what is that? And then it's
like there's been talk of Nick Redfern talked about the
Rendalshom shrug monkey, which is a bit like a big
foot sasquatch type creature, and it's like, is that here
as well? Is it all just you know, in brains?
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (29:03):
And that's where the whole wherewoll thing was too back,
that's where that happened.
Speaker 5 (29:07):
Right.
Speaker 3 (29:08):
How does this case compare to other UFO cases you've researched.
Speaker 5 (29:12):
Yeah, it's definitely the best one in the UK by
a long way. I think the close second, which I
need to do more of research on it is pen
Turk in Wales, which is a similar type of incident
where the military came and removed something locals saw a
UFO crash land whatever you want to say, and there
was a lot of physical evidence left behind there. That's
(29:34):
a really good case. And you know there's others in
Whales as well. Broad Haven School incident where school children
saw this is in nineteen seventy nine ers, I mean,
and they saw you know, UFO Land and aliens get out,
and I've seen the original drawings that these kids drew
straight after this and it's like, whoa, They're amazing. They
(29:54):
can't be explained. Something happened.
Speaker 3 (29:56):
That's seventy nine, one year before rundleshom very interesting. When
we come back, we're going to ask Mark about his
views on the UFOs and the UK versus our views
here in the US, you're listening to Beyond Contact and
the iHeartRadio on Coast to Coast am Paranormal Podcast Network.
(30:28):
We are back on Beyond Contact speaking with Mark Christopher
Lee about the Rendolstrom Forest UFO case. Mark. In the US,
Roswell is a well known subject and it's synonymous with UFOs.
Is that what Rendalstroom's like in England.
Speaker 5 (30:43):
It's the nearest thing. The reason why I made these
UFO films that did the previous one about the royal
families interests in UFOs and the Royal families were specifically
interested in the Rendolstrom case as well, and the Rendolstrom
one is to try and generate more public debate about
this because in public, no one talks about UFOs really
(31:05):
like the US, where it's some of the major news
networks now and you know, it's a big thing, whereas
in the UK it's still very much jokey Joki snigger snigger.
But I have to qualify that because I go around
some a lot of film festivals and a lot of
networking events music and films or whatever, and I'll have
my UFO T shirt or something like that. People always
come up to me. They've always got a story. So
(31:28):
everyone's had some sort of encounter or experience. So I
think once they know it's okay to talk about it,
they will. You know, I get contact ten times a
day with people sending me clips the stuff they've seen
in the UK. A lot of it can be explained,
but some of it can't. We need to catch up
with the US, in my opinion, and taking it more
(31:48):
seriously and getting more academic scientists politicians involved. And it's
really really difficult.
Speaker 3 (31:55):
It is. I mean, I think it's been about ten
years now that this has happened in America that we
finally have changed. It was way different before twenty seventeen,
you know, unlike Roswell, this happened thirty three years later.
So it's still possible to talk to all these witnesses,
the witnesses that we have, and you and I have
just talked about there's this guy, there's this faction, there's
(32:18):
all these different accounts of what happened. Does the government
in the UK seem to be even interested in pursuing this.
It seems like somebody ideally the government should pin all
these guys down and get to the bottom of what
happened and put all their stories together.
Speaker 5 (32:34):
They should do, but they're not. I mean, I've written
to the Prime Minister about this, but I've had their response,
and I know John Hanson has as well. I mean,
you had more interest John Hanson from the Queen like
Queen and l like Prince Philip. They were interested. They
want to know what went on. But I think that
there's definitely been a cover up. And one of the
(32:57):
interviewees in the film Richard Lawrence from the Arias Society,
he was one of the original investigators on the scene
in nineteen eighty. You know, he phoned up Woodbridge and
was on the phone chatting to someone about it and
so are you talking about the UFO that landed and
things like that, and basically she was told to stop
talking about it. It's classified, and it was shut down
(33:18):
that Molly was on the phone, So I think there's
definitely a cover up of what happened. Maybe because they're
protecting some technology that were testing out. I don't know,
maybe it was part of Thatcher and Reagan doing Star
Wars together. I don't know.
Speaker 3 (33:31):
If it's alien, they don't want us to know about that.
If it's not alien, it's their secret tech, they don't
want us to know about it. One way or another,
they definitely would want to cover it up. It just
makes logical sense right either way.
Speaker 5 (33:43):
Absolutely. Yeah, what do you think would.
Speaker 3 (33:44):
Happen today if we had one of these massive cases
like a Roswell, like a Rendell shim or even like
the Phoenix lights. You know, nowadays everyone's got a camera
in their pocket, everyone has access to social media. Could
we be just one more of these big cases away
from changing the worldview on this topic.
Speaker 5 (34:04):
Yeah? Absolutely, And I think that's how we're going to
get what if you want to call it disclosure. It's
not through governments or nations. It's going to be from
the people releasing the information, releasing the evidence collectively. I
think that's what's going to happen it's going to be
a glass roots thick. But you're right, if something big happens,
we'd be all over it.
Speaker 3 (34:23):
But you know, one hundred percent, you know, I don't
think we're any closer to disclosure here in America, although
some people feel that we are. But we are at
least having congressional hearings, and there are people in government,
high level government, talking seriously about this. They just had
a film come out called The Age of Disclosure, which
(34:44):
has a lot of very high level guys very openly
talking about this subject, something we wouldn't have seen ten
years ago. Are you seeing anything like that happening in
the UK?
Speaker 5 (34:56):
No, to be honest, although qualify that me and other
UFO researchers in the UK, we're getting contacted by proper whistleblowers,
people in the military that have had encounters that want
to go on record publicly, but they don't feel confident
enough they haven't got that backing or from the government
(35:19):
to do that. So I think it could happen, and
I think there's a lot of credible witnesses and whistleblowers
that want to come forward to testify like they have
done in the US.
Speaker 3 (35:29):
Yeah, i'd like to get these guys before they age
out of this. I'd like to get as many of
these witnesses and record as we can so we can
put together what we think might be happening. You know,
there's of course a lot of speculation that UFOs have
an interest in our nuclear weapons. Of course, do you
think that may have been why they were at Rundels
from there?
Speaker 5 (35:50):
Yeah, I think there's definitely a connection because a few
of the witnesses claimed to have seen beams of light come
down from whatever was in the sky onto the nuclear
storage area. Why would that be? I mean? But also
if that was some secret technology be testing, why would
they be doing that unless it was Russian or I
don't know.
Speaker 3 (36:09):
Yeah, if you're testing a new technology, do you fly
it over a nuclear weapons storage base? You know, That's
something that I've never heard anybody bring up. And it
makes a really strong point. Is this where I know
you're not going to test it over Phoenix because that's
a population, But would you test it right over nuclear weapons?
That doesn't make any sense.
Speaker 5 (36:26):
It doesn't make any sense, does it, you know? And
we talked about what the physical evidence. Definitely something we
haven't not many people realized that also, they had these
big outdoor lights called white tools that were malfunctioning because
there's something electromagnetic going on, and you know these have
been tested recently, but they were going out and weren't
working right. Something was happening.
Speaker 3 (36:48):
A lot of things happened electronically. That's another piece of evidence.
We didn't mention their radios were going down. There were
all kinds of electronic interference, which is something we often
hear on these UFO cases.
Speaker 5 (36:59):
Of course, absolutely, yeah.
Speaker 3 (37:01):
Mark, what do you think is going to be next
for you? Are you going to go to Wales? Do
you have another case on your radar that you want
to visit? Do you have what's your plan?
Speaker 5 (37:09):
Yeah, there's a couple of things. We want to do,
something similar to the Age of Disclosure in terms of
getting these whistleblowers there is really good witnesses on camera,
try and get them some protection from from the government.
There was talk of having a meeting with someone from
the house lords. That never materialized, but I'm pushing for
(37:31):
that as well, to try and try and get the
whole disclosure movement growing here in the UK. But then
also to investigate the other most credible case, which is
pent Turke and Wales and one of the main witnesses.
She's come forward and you know she's been shut down.
She wrote to the King. The King wrote back saying
you couldn't talk about it. We didn't deny that anything.
(37:52):
You know, it didn't say nothing happened.
Speaker 3 (37:55):
Right right, that's telling as well.
Speaker 5 (37:57):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely, Yeah.
Speaker 3 (37:59):
You need that watershed moment. I mean we had that
New York Times article in twenty seventeen that really did
tip things over and then boom they were on sixty
minutes and boom it was on the next thing. And
now it's definitely a different climate here, which is great.
Speaker 5 (38:13):
Yeah, that's what we need. And yeah, we need to
keep on pushing the politicians over here and the media
because the media, especially likes of the BBC, won't cover it.
I mean, we are getting a little bit of coverage
on the Renderssian film because of the forty fifth anniversary
this Christmas, so we'll see how that goes. Yeah, you know,
(38:35):
it's difficult to get mainstream media to take it seriously
in the UK.
Speaker 3 (38:38):
Well, the bottom line is, man, I feel like you're
out there doing it. You're making you're recording your music,
you're shooting your docs. You're going to these places live
and in person, and I just think that's great. Man.
You're somebody that's living their life and really not just
reading about this stuff, but you're investigating it. You're going
to the sites. I think it's awesome and thanks for
(38:59):
sharing all that with us today. What's the best place
that people can find you? Mark?
Speaker 5 (39:04):
Sure, I'm on social media. I'm applicking of UFOs on TikTok, Instagram,
on x.
Speaker 3 (39:11):
At the King of UFOs.
Speaker 5 (39:12):
Okay, there you go, So please contact me with any
stories or any information. I'm always happy to help.
Speaker 3 (39:17):
Thank great sounds good, Mark, I appreciate it. You guys
can find me on Twitter and Instagram at CID Underscore
Captain Ron. Stay connected by checking out contact Inthethdesert dot com.
Stay open minded and rational as we explore the unknown
right here on the iHeartRadio and Past to Coast am Paranormal.
Speaker 1 (39:44):
Thanks for listening to the iHeartRadio and Coast to Ghost
Day and Paranormal podcast network. Make sure and check out
all our shows on the iHeartRadio app or by going
to iHeartRadio dot com.
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