November 4, 2020 • 34 mins
Kris Jenner has helped create a hit reality show, extremely successful beauty businesses, and so much more. This week, Kris joins Bobbi to share the stories behind her legacy brands. Kris opens up about being a lifelong entrepreneur, how she manages so many projects (with family!), and what beauty means to her. This is the conversation between two passionate and curious CEOs that you’re not going to want to miss.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Beyond the Beauty is a production of I Heart Radio.
I'm your host, Bobby Brown. I have been an entrepreneur
in businesswoman for a very long time. I have somehow
managed to do that while running my family and enjoying
(00:24):
my family. But when I look at someone like Chris
Jenner and I see what she has done, it is
so admirable because it's so epic. She has so many
kids and she also is a grandma to these gorgeous kids,
and she has somehow figured out how to combine it all,
and she always seems so unflappable. She is a combination
(00:49):
of grit and heart, and I think that's a very
amazing personality. Hey, Chris, so nice to see you. Bobby,
so used to see you too. I just want to
say how excited I am to talk to you. You
are my first guest on the new season. Oh thank you,
(01:09):
thank you for inviting me. That makes me happy. And
I just want everyone to know because people that have
listened to me and listened to all my different things,
like I don't usually get like giddy and excited, but
I seriously. I was introduced to Chris through a mutual
friend Richard Baker and Chris answered the text right away,
(01:30):
and you said to me, I'm really busy, but can
I call you Thursday? And I said sure, And I
just assumed I would have to call your assistant and
your publicist and you know whoever else, And you texted
me said, is this good? That's amazing? Chris, Oh, thank you. Well,
you know, I'm first of all such a big fan
of yours. I think, um, just you're who you are,
(01:55):
what you stand for, your an icon in the beauty business,
and somebody at UM. It just I've always looked up
to and I love your products over the years and
just everything that you've built UM in your career, and
it gives others inspiration and great um just great hope
(02:18):
that you know, when you have a passion or a
love for something, that you two can go out and
conquer the world. So thanks for inspiring so many of
us to do a little bit of what you've done
over the last few decades. Well, I mean, honestly, if
I had a mirror, i'd hold it up to you
to say back at you. But honestly, what what you
(02:40):
have done from you know, being a businesswoman to what
you've done with your children and creating these like legacy
brands is amazing. Have you always been entrepreneurial? Like were
you the kid that had a lemonade stand? I? Actually
I was, I um I was. I figured it out
at a very young age because I knew what I
(03:01):
wanted and I couldn't always have it. I remember when
I was in grade school and my mom really wanted
me to go to this brownie camp, but she couldn't
always afford the thing, the extra things that I wanted
to do. So I went out and sold enough girl
Scout cookies. I you know, I kicked ass so close
(03:25):
Scout cookies to all my neighbors, and the same thing
happened was some I can't quite remember what it was,
but it was an event during the summer, and we
had to go out and raise enough money so that
I could go to this thing. And so we sold
candies another kind of candies door to door and I
and I nailed that because I think I was a
(03:46):
really good salesperson and I got to learn a lot
about uh just you know, those kind of skills growing
up and how to how to use them for a
really good cause. Were you also a good student or
was that not your forte. Um, I was. I was
a pretty good student. I was always a good girl. Um,
(04:10):
I didn't like math, so I didn't do well in
algebra and then I took it over in summer school
and got an A. So it just kind of showed
my mom that if I put my mind to something,
I could nail it. But I had I don't have
the most incredible attention span for periods of time, Like
(04:31):
I do things and then I move on to something else.
I'm a great multitasker. So clearly, clearly we started this
interview when you were talking to one of your daughters
live Who's Who's you know? Because something wasn't on And
I can only imagine what goes in your brain and
all these different businesses. So I mean, when did you
(04:51):
get the idea for the Kardashians for the show? Well,
early early on, when I started having kids. Um, one
of my best friends and Kendall and Kylie's godmother is
Kathie Lee Gifford and Kathy Lee for years, I've known
her for forty five years and for years she would
(05:11):
say to me, you know your this life you live
is so insane. You've had so many lives, You're like
a cat with nine lives, and it's just the most
Nobody wouldn't believe what goes on in a day around here.
She would always say to me, you really should have
a show, and I would say, oh, you know, go on.
You know, we're just crazy and and love living life
(05:33):
and I love my kids. And so I met a
girl named Dina Katz who's casting director on Dancing with
the Stars, and I met her through a mutual friend
and long story short, she came over for dinner one
night and saw the drama and she goes, I've got
to talk to Ryan Seacrest. I need to set you
(05:54):
up with a meeting. So I met with Ryan, he
pitched it to the network and the rest is history.
And and and you have one more year we do.
We're on filming our last season right now, which will
air in So yeah, we've could. It will have completed
twenty seasons almost fifteen years later. That's amazing. When did
(06:19):
you figure out that your girls could all have these
incredible beauty brands? Well, you know, I think the thing
about finding your way and developing a career really starts
with what you want to do with your life and
your passion and I'm sure you know that more than anybody.
And I think when we started the show, and I
(06:43):
say this all the time, there was barely Twitter. There
was no Instagram, there was no Snapchat, there wasn't all
these social media platforms and um, but we recognized fairly quickly.
Kim did actually that she had a real relation and
ship with her social media followers and the viewers on
(07:04):
the show and just the whole thing. There was so
many of us that there was somebody that, you know,
someone could relate to. And as the girls saw the
power of their you know, social media increase in the
show was doing so well and you know, almost two countries,
and it was quite remarkable how we started out. I
(07:27):
think the girls realized that they really resonated with so
many people, and so it was time to start doing
things that would be lifelong lasting. And we started, you know,
I started by throwing some spaghetti at the wall because
I wasn't in the beauty business surely, and I loved
(07:50):
beauty and it was a passion of mine and fashion
and all these fabulous things that the girls wanted to
get into. So we all had a real love for
everything we're doing now. And it was just figuring out
how to get there and navigating the world as it
was at the time, and then we got that enormous
(08:12):
boost from social media along the way, and then Kendall
and highly grew up and helped us figure that out.
And it was just like the perfect storm. We got
very lucky, and we're every single day we say how
blessed we are to be in this position, so grateful
for every single uh thing that's happened, every mistake, every
(08:34):
wrong turn that leads us back to something that we've learned.
And then you know, we go on and have have
some more fun. But it's been a really great time,
a great chapter. And you know, resilience is everything. It's
it's why I still keep doing what I'm doing. It's
(08:54):
why I'm still curious. And I think a lot of
people when something doesn't go well, they look at it
as a failure. And what you're saying is something that
could help everyone out there that's listening to say, you
know what, that didn't work. I just got laid off
from my job. Now what So you are really a
role model when it comes to that, Well, I think
thank you. I think everybody has to have a plan.
(09:17):
B I mean, I when I started doing the show,
I was so happy to be doing something that not
only was so much fun and being with my family,
but I had um you know, I made some money
and was able to pay bills and do extra things.
And you know, it's really exciting when you have success,
(09:39):
but to have success that you truly, truly love and
and then have it all feel very stable. But then
sometimes things go really wrong. You know, you start things
that you think are a really great idea and they
might not go the way that you thought. And I
consider now every one of those things to be such
(10:03):
a great lesson because you know what not to do
the next time, or you learn what to do a
little bit differently. And um, I've had so many different
experiences with people that have done the same thing. And
I think that if you don't fail from time to time,
you know, it's that just would be so unnatural. It's
just it's it's a life you know, a life thing,
(10:26):
and it's a life lesson when you when as long
as you learn something from it. You know, if you're
the type of person that just keeps making mistakes and
has a big ego and doesn't you know, isn't it
doesn't have an open heart to learning about, you know,
how to better their life, or you know, maybe they're
going in the wrong direction. But I talk about having
(10:48):
a plan be a lot, and I talk about being
able to pivot, you know, going from I am really
great at adapting to a different situation really quickly, because
I'm I'm a I think I'm a problem solver. Some
days I'm forced to do that all day long, you know, like,
oh my gosh, we have you know, we have to
fix this, or we have to I'm like a fireman,
(11:11):
you know, at all times. So I think people I'd
like to give people and those around me great encouragement
when somebody starts something new. I love to support my
friends and and our family and extended family and and
small business owners that write to us and ask us
for advice. And you know, it's really great to be
(11:34):
encouraged because everybody wants to feel like they're on the
right track. And unfortunately, UM, a lot of these mistakes
you've made and shifts are the second they happen their
page six, their front page news. How do you deal
with you know, you don't even have time to process
what's going on, and all of a sudden it's all over.
Are you numb when you see things in the press,
(11:56):
good and bad? You know? I learned a lot again
from the girls and from Kim, and when we started
the show, one of the things I said was, you know,
there's a lot of um, you know, interesting things people
say on the internet, and don't read all the stuff.
Stay off the computer, stay away from the tabloids, because
(12:18):
back in the day when we started, the tabloids were wild.
I mean, the headlines would be I just I can't
even I think I've blocked it out. But it was
very hurtful in the beginning. And then Kim was like, Mom,
why do you even look. You're the one who said
not to look, And I said, well, it's part of
my job to look, because I'm supposed to be the
(12:39):
manager and keeping it all together. But she really taught
me that you just have to let it roll off
your back because there's always going to be somebody that
says something really horrible and of the time it's completely
false and made up, and you just wonder, you know,
I always and fascinated. One one little story I'll share
(13:03):
is when we first started our show season one, I
was working its Smooch our children's clothing store with Courtney,
and I remember getting an email from somebody wondering how
they got my email address, and at the time, it
wasn't that hard, so I was the dummy. But they
emailed me and sent me the most horrific email about
(13:26):
what a bad mother I was and how could I
put my kids on this show or you know whatever
it was. And I read it several times. It really
hurt my feelings, and I just wrote back and I said, gee,
I'm really sorry to feel that way. I'm really just
trying to do the best I can here, just trying
to be a good mom and giving my kids opportunity,
and we're having a ball and I wish you the best,
(13:49):
and I wish you didn't feel that way, but I'm
just doing my best. By the time the email exchange
was over, she asked me if she could be my assistant.
Oh my god, taught me a great lesson. I mean
I didn't obviously I didn't hire her. I didn't. I
don't even remember where she lived, but um, she was
(14:09):
lovely at the end. And I think there's so many
people out there that just craved the attention and want
to feel like they've engaged with somebody of some certain
celebrity or whatever you want to call it. And I
feel like there's also a lot of really angry, unhappy,
miserable people out there that you know, don't know what
(14:30):
to do with themselves, and so they project a lot
of hate because they're so unhappy. And once you realize that,
and right now, it's a terrible time for the world
and so much um so many people are unsure about
their future, their jobs and and where their next mortgage
payment is going to come from, or rent or food,
(14:52):
and so there are a lot of people out there
right now that are really struggling, and I feel horrible
about that. But all through the years, you know, you
experience different things, and for us as a family, you know,
we try to focus on places where we can help
in times like this, and that makes us, you know,
(15:14):
feel good about being able to help somebody. Yea as
a beauty founder and and I was still at Bobby
Brown Cosmetics when Kylie's Lip Kits came out and you
(15:37):
sold out within fifteen minutes? Like, what did you do?
And how did that feel? Yeah, I think it was
less than four minutes, to be honest, yeah, it was
crazy for seconds. I don't know, it was just done.
My gosh, I should have that memorized. But um, you know,
(15:58):
when we started the brand, highly knew exactly what she wanted.
She was the one who came to me and said, Okay,
I figured this out. Mom. I want to be in
the beauty business. I am obsessed with makeup and skincare
and beauty and hair and all of it. Fragrance. I
want to be in the business, and I want to
start out with UM Color Cosmetics and I want to
(16:18):
do a lip kit. And I thought, okay. It was
just such a revelation. I mean, she just came like
she was, you know, a CEO, and came and said,
this is the plan. And I said, well, I'll tell
you the plan. If you want to do this, you
start out with three colors. We'll see if it works.
And they better be colors you love, because it's either
(16:40):
going to go really well and you know sell, or
you're gonna be wearing this lipstick your life. And she
designed the box. She had done a photo shoot previously
UM with Mike Rosenthal Um who's Jen atkins husband, a photographer,
and had done the Dripping Lips and um, he had
(17:04):
made this image for her, so I said, use that image.
It's already done, and we'll get somebody to develop the
developed the lip kit. And that's how it started. And
I told her, you have to use your own money
and you will own this all by yourself. You don't
want five cents from your mommy. You just want to
do this. And she did. And she just was so
(17:26):
impressive her work ethic and her creativity and her focus
on design and quality of the product, and all the
little things that you would think, uh, somebody else would
have done. She did every bit of it. It was
just amazing. And it's grown so quickly, and you sold
it this year she sold uh, approximately half of her
(17:52):
company to Cody. Yes, so she still owns half and
she has involved as ever. Is she Yes, she is.
She's working on skin right now wholeheartedly and so excited
about the holiday and has a big surprise for everybody
in color for for the holidays. So I'm so excited
(18:15):
about that. I'm especially obsessed with what she's doing, so
that'll be a great surprise. But yeah, she works on
it every day and she's always got a great idea.
I got a call yesterday, UM from she was shooting
something and I guess in the middle of the shoot
she had an idea and she goes, I want my
(18:35):
mom to come to the YouTube studio with the office
and I wanted to do my makeup. So it was
really cute. I'm like, oh boy, why don't we do
it the other way around? So you know, she's always
thinking of something fun for us to do together, and
and she's great. And then and then Kim, how do
you keep it separate? Or how do the girls keep
(18:57):
it separate? You know, because they're competing companies and they're
they're different, right, They're well, they're very different. Um. I
think they're also very different in age. UM. You know,
Kim's gonna be forty this year, believe it or not,
and Kylie just turned twenty three. So you know, there's
a nice gap there that really UM Kim's keeps her
(19:22):
UM you know, her line very different from Kylie, but
they have very different tastes and they're almost you know,
like a different generation. So that makes it nice. It's
not like it, you know, it was too close an
age so and there UM focused on such different things
and the packaging is just incredibly exactly the opposite, you know,
(19:43):
the one eighty of one another. So I feel like
at first it was a little um interesting because of
the launches that they were having, you know, I think
that it was important to kind of schedule things and
stagger and cre it at cadence within the two companies
to where they were each having their time to breathe
(20:06):
when they would come out with a new product. And
they really handled that beautifully. So I was really proud
of them for that. And the two of them have
such incredible work ethic. I mean, they all do, but
especially in the beauty business. You know, as you know
better than anybody, it changes daily, you know, and you
just beauty doesn't sleep. So do you have a master
calendar that has all the big launches so you know,
(20:29):
no one steals the internet from the other one, they
all their time. I have a lot of master calendars,
But that's my yeah, that's my uh my, My main
one is just all the different things that are going
on because there's so many of us that surely daily
you know, there's something that's launching, or somebody's doing something
(20:52):
you know, on on a podcast like this or maybe
a TV show, et cetera. So yeah, we just um
try to be super respectful of each other in that
regard and make sure that, um, we support each other.
I think that's what's so great is if the girls
spread their things out so that they can support each
(21:15):
other because they really want to. So when one of
them has something that's going on, the others can can
post for them and and really get the message out
on social And they work, they help each other. They
work together all the time. They do all the time. Yeah,
and it's a it's a huge we have such a
(21:36):
big family text change. So this morning, just right before
I got on this podcast, Um, you know, Kendall's team
was texting all of us saying, Kendall is about to
go a lot. You know, if there's always an announcement,
there's always great excitement. I think Chloe's the biggest cheerleader,
Like no matter what you say, Chloe's like, oh my god,
(21:58):
congratulations and luck and you know, Chloe's like, if you're
ever down for a minute or two, just called Chloe
and she gets you right back on your feet. But
how do you keep it straight? Like how do you
do as much as you do? Because you always seem
to have it together do have twelve assistants are to
get up at five in the morning, like, what are
some of the things you do to keep yourself together? Well, um,
(22:22):
this morning I got up at four actually because I
had a lot to take care of. I had to
start with calls on the East Coast, a couple in Europe.
Then I have to go over with uh our business
strategists from New York a few things, and then my publicist.
You know, there's just a list of tons of things
(22:43):
to go over, and then checking in with our general
counsel and what's happening with different contracts and deals that
we're working on and where we're at, who needs an
answer to what? And then from there it goes into um,
you know, one of the first being as I get
about seven o'clock, I guess is my assistant Matthew will
send me the day schedule and any changes from the
(23:07):
night before, and you know, just see what I need.
And then almost every day we film, so it's getting
wardrobe together for that, which I've just been kind of
grabbing lately because there's there's so much to to keep
up with, and so I grabbed that throw out my
(23:28):
car and then I'm on the road for a while,
or going over to one of my kids house to
film for a while and back here for more calls.
It just never hints, which I think. I love the uh,
the adrenaline of it all. You know, it's very exciting.
I keep thinking of four am. What time did you
go to sleep? I think I go to bed every night.
(23:50):
I fall asleep probably at ten. I probably go to
bed at seven or eight sometimes because I'm just exhausted
when you get up that early and you're going hard
and your brain is working and your physical and you're
running around. I do my first hour and a half
every morning in the gym or on the treadmill. So
(24:12):
this morning, at four, when I was rolling all my calls,
I'm on the treadmill. So I got four miles in
or five miles in before I took a shower. And
what about coffee? Oh, the coffee. Coffee was at four
oh one. Okay, that's okay, two cups of coffee and
then um, I've never done this before, but lately I've
(24:32):
been having like a three o'clock coffee in the afternoon.
Are you someone that likes a nightly cocktail? Do you
save that for special I love a nightly cocktail. I
love to have a glass of wine or mostly of
vodka soda. So I'll have a vodka soda with some lime,
and that just kind of like winds me down because
(24:54):
I can get really wound up for the day and
it's like, Okay, it's five o'clock, let's have our you know,
have a drink. I love my vodka on the rocks
with um. If i'm during the week, I'll have cucumber
in my vodka and make it a spa vodka. Weekends,
I'll have three olives a spa vodka. But is the
(25:14):
three all of vodka martini or do you know? I
just I do it on the rocks because then it
takes me, like, you know, I don't drink it so quickly,
so I try to have one very good idea. Yeah,
I let the ice melt and I try to have one.
But um, but the cucumber is very refreshing and it,
you know, and it adds water to your body, which
(25:34):
is nice. Oh water. Okay. Do you know Vera whang
I do? She loves her and I would go to Mr.
Chow's when she would come to l A and she
would order a vodka rocks and then a side of
orange juice. And I used to love it going to
(25:55):
dinner with her Mr Chaws because we would sit and
sip our vodka orange juice. But it was out of
vodka orange juice. There were two separate ones. Yeah, and
I guess we just added a little every time we
needed some more, you know, so we could mix the
drink ourselves. It was fun. And when can we expect
the Chris uh line of cosmetics that I think would
(26:18):
be such a hit, you're so cute. Well, I had
a collab with Kylie that I loved doing, called Momager,
and um, she surprised me with it. Actually, it was
really really sweet. I came to a design meeting one
day and the team put it all out. It was
(26:38):
all out on the table and I walked into the
office and I made me cry. I mean, it was
the sweetest thing. So she had done every single product
that was in the collab, the lip kid and the
eyeshadow palette and just the whole all of it. And um,
and she had the cutest names all you know, picked
(27:00):
out and we refined some of those later, but um,
it was one of the sweetest things ever. And it
did really well, so you never know, I really enjoyed
that time and that was a moment and I'll never
forget that she did that. It would be fun to
do something in beauty. I love skincare and I love
(27:20):
I love all of it. And didn't you trademark momager?
I did, So there's the line. I don't know that's
what I would call the the the actual line, but um,
it would be fun to do something. This podcast is
(27:48):
called Beyond the Beauty, so I'd love to ask you
what does beauty mean to you? You know, beauty used
to me when I was younger, beauty meant more about
the physical, and as you get older, you realize that
beauty is really more about what's inside and then how
(28:09):
how that transcends to the outside. You know, I think
it's how somebody feels about themselves. And I've always been
somebody I learned from my mother. But whenever she left
the house every day, she would put her best foot forward.
She would look her bad, she would have the cutest
little outfit on. She'd always have her makeup on and
her hair really cute. And to this day she's eighty
(28:31):
six years old and she puts her hair beautiful, and
she'll wear a little hat and put her outfit on
and puts her makeup and her lipstick. I learned a
lot from my mom that when you do look your best,
you feel your best, and you know you can really
um uh change your whole day and your whole outlook.
(28:54):
But I truly I think for me personally, I love
to look my best because it does make me feel better.
But I love to feel my best inside. And I
think there's a certain amount of stress that weighs on
a woman that's not so healthy, you know, when we
get into a certain space in life, and I think
just to feel more of a joy and a data
(29:16):
vie and a happiness and a peace. I work on
that these days, really trying to find this inner place
that feels beautiful. Well, what are just then? What are
some of your favorite skin care products and makeup products?
What are you into these days? Well, um, I'm totally
(29:36):
you know, obviously Kylie Kylie Cosmetics and Kylie Skin and
her new hyaluronic acid is my new best friend. And
then I'm obsessed with Kim's body makeup. Kim's body makeup
makes you look like you have like you know, gorgeous
legs and arms and you know everything with this bar makeup.
(30:00):
So that's that's my obsession. But I'm always been obsessed
with your beauty line. I really it's not my beauty
line anymore, but I'm glad you liked it all back
in the day, back and all Bobby Brown. And then
I love um Lamar skin cream. I love their skin
(30:21):
care line. Love that. I love um I love you
know what I love. I love Anastasia. I love I
can't go without her eyebrows, you know, the eyebrow pencils
that she's I mean, she's a genius. And she's been
so kind and generous to my family and helping us
(30:42):
navigate some important decisions that we've made along the way,
and she's just been such a good friend. But she
has got the most fabulous makeup line. Yeah, she's a
wonderful lady. She really is. And then what about your
health and wellness? What do you do on the inside, Like,
what what is food? Vitamins? What do you do that
keeps you so focused and feeling good? Well? I take
(31:07):
a vitamin. Finally, I wasn't doing that as much, but
I eat a lot of salads and I think that
when you eat vegetables. I love fresh vegetables and you know,
clean food. I'm the first one displurge on something or
have birthday cake out of friends if it's somebody's birthday.
But I try to keep the sugar out of the
picture because I've watched way too many sugar documentaries and
(31:30):
the damage that that does to our insides. Um. But
I'm just trying, like everybody else to figure it out.
The diet thing I think is crucial to our health,
especially as we get older, and nutrition and just you know, um,
being really clean from the inside out. And it's amazing
(31:52):
how we have tortured our bodies over the years. You know. Um,
when I think back to some of this stuff I
fed my kids when they were babies, you know, it
was always mac and cheese and you know, apple sauce
and stuff like that. So I've really tried to um
eat let's uh meats and just trying to adapt a
(32:16):
better lifestyle and focus on my nutrition. Well, Chris, it's
been amazing, and I feel so guilty taking up your time,
knowing what else you have in your day. I can't
even I can't even imagine when one last question though,
because I'm just curious. No, it's fine. When you guys
get together as a family at night, how do you
(32:38):
shut the business part off and just have family time?
Like yeah, um, well, actually we're gonna have a barbecue
today at four thirty and everybody will go over to
Courtney's house and we have the best time. You know
what it is, it's having ten grandchildren. And when you
have ten beautiful children who all are different have something
(33:02):
different going on. There's three or four of them that
are practically triplets or quadruplets because they do everything together.
My kids call them the triplets. And then my grandson Mason,
who's ten, and there's just so much going on, you know,
and there's such little sponges and they have so much
to say and it's so delicious, and it's just I
(33:24):
get so excited, and I have a different relationship with
each one of them, so it's really fun to I'll
get together and that takes up all my time, so
there's really no more time for business. It's like, Okay,
let's all turn it off and play with the kids.
Well that's really what life's about. And you are a
lucky lady. I hope that this virus will go somewhere
and eventually I could actually meet you in person. I'm
(33:46):
looking forward to it. I can't wait, Bobby, thank you
so much. I really look forward to meeting you two
and spending some time together. Same here, big kiss and
I'll be looking fear line. Let me know when you're ready,
you two, okay, I will I well. For more podcasts
from I Heart Radio, visit the I Heart Radio app,
(34:08):
Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
H
Beyond the Beauty is a production of I Heart Radio.
I'm your host, Bobby Brown. I have been an entrepreneur
in businesswoman for a very long time. I have somehow
managed to do that while running my family and enjoying
(00:24):
my family. But when I look at someone like Chris
Jenner and I see what she has done, it is
so admirable because it's so epic. She has so many
kids and she also is a grandma to these gorgeous kids,
and she has somehow figured out how to combine it all,
and she always seems so unflappable. She is a combination
(00:49):
of grit and heart, and I think that's a very
amazing personality. Hey, Chris, so nice to see you. Bobby,
so used to see you too. I just want to
say how excited I am to talk to you. You
are my first guest on the new season. Oh thank you,
(01:09):
thank you for inviting me. That makes me happy. And
I just want everyone to know because people that have
listened to me and listened to all my different things,
like I don't usually get like giddy and excited, but
I seriously. I was introduced to Chris through a mutual
friend Richard Baker and Chris answered the text right away,
(01:30):
and you said to me, I'm really busy, but can
I call you Thursday? And I said sure, And I
just assumed I would have to call your assistant and
your publicist and you know whoever else, And you texted
me said, is this good? That's amazing? Chris, Oh, thank you. Well,
you know, I'm first of all such a big fan
of yours. I think, um, just you're who you are,
(01:55):
what you stand for, your an icon in the beauty business,
and somebody at UM. It just I've always looked up
to and I love your products over the years and
just everything that you've built UM in your career, and
it gives others inspiration and great um just great hope
(02:18):
that you know, when you have a passion or a
love for something, that you two can go out and
conquer the world. So thanks for inspiring so many of
us to do a little bit of what you've done
over the last few decades. Well, I mean, honestly, if
I had a mirror, i'd hold it up to you
to say back at you. But honestly, what what you
(02:40):
have done from you know, being a businesswoman to what
you've done with your children and creating these like legacy
brands is amazing. Have you always been entrepreneurial? Like were
you the kid that had a lemonade stand? I? Actually
I was, I um I was. I figured it out
at a very young age because I knew what I
(03:01):
wanted and I couldn't always have it. I remember when
I was in grade school and my mom really wanted
me to go to this brownie camp, but she couldn't
always afford the thing, the extra things that I wanted
to do. So I went out and sold enough girl
Scout cookies. I you know, I kicked ass so close
(03:25):
Scout cookies to all my neighbors, and the same thing
happened was some I can't quite remember what it was,
but it was an event during the summer, and we
had to go out and raise enough money so that
I could go to this thing. And so we sold
candies another kind of candies door to door and I
and I nailed that because I think I was a
(03:46):
really good salesperson and I got to learn a lot
about uh just you know, those kind of skills growing
up and how to how to use them for a
really good cause. Were you also a good student or
was that not your forte. Um, I was. I was
a pretty good student. I was always a good girl. Um,
(04:10):
I didn't like math, so I didn't do well in
algebra and then I took it over in summer school
and got an A. So it just kind of showed
my mom that if I put my mind to something,
I could nail it. But I had I don't have
the most incredible attention span for periods of time, Like
(04:31):
I do things and then I move on to something else.
I'm a great multitasker. So clearly, clearly we started this
interview when you were talking to one of your daughters
live Who's Who's you know? Because something wasn't on And
I can only imagine what goes in your brain and
all these different businesses. So I mean, when did you
(04:51):
get the idea for the Kardashians for the show? Well,
early early on, when I started having kids. Um, one
of my best friends and Kendall and Kylie's godmother is
Kathie Lee Gifford and Kathy Lee for years, I've known
her for forty five years and for years she would
(05:11):
say to me, you know your this life you live
is so insane. You've had so many lives, You're like
a cat with nine lives, and it's just the most
Nobody wouldn't believe what goes on in a day around here.
She would always say to me, you really should have
a show, and I would say, oh, you know, go on.
You know, we're just crazy and and love living life
(05:33):
and I love my kids. And so I met a
girl named Dina Katz who's casting director on Dancing with
the Stars, and I met her through a mutual friend
and long story short, she came over for dinner one
night and saw the drama and she goes, I've got
to talk to Ryan Seacrest. I need to set you
(05:54):
up with a meeting. So I met with Ryan, he
pitched it to the network and the rest is history.
And and and you have one more year we do.
We're on filming our last season right now, which will
air in So yeah, we've could. It will have completed
twenty seasons almost fifteen years later. That's amazing. When did
(06:19):
you figure out that your girls could all have these
incredible beauty brands? Well, you know, I think the thing
about finding your way and developing a career really starts
with what you want to do with your life and
your passion and I'm sure you know that more than anybody.
And I think when we started the show, and I
(06:43):
say this all the time, there was barely Twitter. There
was no Instagram, there was no Snapchat, there wasn't all
these social media platforms and um, but we recognized fairly quickly.
Kim did actually that she had a real relation and
ship with her social media followers and the viewers on
(07:04):
the show and just the whole thing. There was so
many of us that there was somebody that, you know,
someone could relate to. And as the girls saw the
power of their you know, social media increase in the
show was doing so well and you know, almost two countries,
and it was quite remarkable how we started out. I
(07:27):
think the girls realized that they really resonated with so
many people, and so it was time to start doing
things that would be lifelong lasting. And we started, you know,
I started by throwing some spaghetti at the wall because
I wasn't in the beauty business surely, and I loved
(07:50):
beauty and it was a passion of mine and fashion
and all these fabulous things that the girls wanted to
get into. So we all had a real love for
everything we're doing now. And it was just figuring out
how to get there and navigating the world as it
was at the time, and then we got that enormous
(08:12):
boost from social media along the way, and then Kendall
and highly grew up and helped us figure that out.
And it was just like the perfect storm. We got
very lucky, and we're every single day we say how
blessed we are to be in this position, so grateful
for every single uh thing that's happened, every mistake, every
(08:34):
wrong turn that leads us back to something that we've learned.
And then you know, we go on and have have
some more fun. But it's been a really great time,
a great chapter. And you know, resilience is everything. It's
it's why I still keep doing what I'm doing. It's
(08:54):
why I'm still curious. And I think a lot of
people when something doesn't go well, they look at it
as a failure. And what you're saying is something that
could help everyone out there that's listening to say, you
know what, that didn't work. I just got laid off
from my job. Now what So you are really a
role model when it comes to that, Well, I think
thank you. I think everybody has to have a plan.
(09:17):
B I mean, I when I started doing the show,
I was so happy to be doing something that not
only was so much fun and being with my family,
but I had um you know, I made some money
and was able to pay bills and do extra things.
And you know, it's really exciting when you have success,
(09:39):
but to have success that you truly, truly love and
and then have it all feel very stable. But then
sometimes things go really wrong. You know, you start things
that you think are a really great idea and they
might not go the way that you thought. And I
consider now every one of those things to be such
(10:03):
a great lesson because you know what not to do
the next time, or you learn what to do a
little bit differently. And um, I've had so many different
experiences with people that have done the same thing. And
I think that if you don't fail from time to time,
you know, it's that just would be so unnatural. It's
just it's it's a life you know, a life thing,
(10:26):
and it's a life lesson when you when as long
as you learn something from it. You know, if you're
the type of person that just keeps making mistakes and
has a big ego and doesn't you know, isn't it
doesn't have an open heart to learning about, you know,
how to better their life, or you know, maybe they're
going in the wrong direction. But I talk about having
(10:48):
a plan be a lot, and I talk about being
able to pivot, you know, going from I am really
great at adapting to a different situation really quickly, because
I'm I'm a I think I'm a problem solver. Some
days I'm forced to do that all day long, you know, like,
oh my gosh, we have you know, we have to
fix this, or we have to I'm like a fireman,
(11:11):
you know, at all times. So I think people I'd
like to give people and those around me great encouragement
when somebody starts something new. I love to support my
friends and and our family and extended family and and
small business owners that write to us and ask us
for advice. And you know, it's really great to be
(11:34):
encouraged because everybody wants to feel like they're on the
right track. And unfortunately, UM, a lot of these mistakes
you've made and shifts are the second they happen their
page six, their front page news. How do you deal
with you know, you don't even have time to process
what's going on, and all of a sudden it's all over.
Are you numb when you see things in the press,
(11:56):
good and bad? You know? I learned a lot again
from the girls and from Kim, and when we started
the show, one of the things I said was, you know,
there's a lot of um, you know, interesting things people
say on the internet, and don't read all the stuff.
Stay off the computer, stay away from the tabloids, because
(12:18):
back in the day when we started, the tabloids were wild.
I mean, the headlines would be I just I can't
even I think I've blocked it out. But it was
very hurtful in the beginning. And then Kim was like, Mom,
why do you even look. You're the one who said
not to look, And I said, well, it's part of
my job to look, because I'm supposed to be the
(12:39):
manager and keeping it all together. But she really taught
me that you just have to let it roll off
your back because there's always going to be somebody that
says something really horrible and of the time it's completely
false and made up, and you just wonder, you know,
I always and fascinated. One one little story I'll share
(13:03):
is when we first started our show season one, I
was working its Smooch our children's clothing store with Courtney,
and I remember getting an email from somebody wondering how
they got my email address, and at the time, it
wasn't that hard, so I was the dummy. But they
emailed me and sent me the most horrific email about
(13:26):
what a bad mother I was and how could I
put my kids on this show or you know whatever
it was. And I read it several times. It really
hurt my feelings, and I just wrote back and I said, gee,
I'm really sorry to feel that way. I'm really just
trying to do the best I can here, just trying
to be a good mom and giving my kids opportunity,
and we're having a ball and I wish you the best,
(13:49):
and I wish you didn't feel that way, but I'm
just doing my best. By the time the email exchange
was over, she asked me if she could be my assistant.
Oh my god, taught me a great lesson. I mean
I didn't obviously I didn't hire her. I didn't. I
don't even remember where she lived, but um, she was
(14:09):
lovely at the end. And I think there's so many
people out there that just craved the attention and want
to feel like they've engaged with somebody of some certain
celebrity or whatever you want to call it. And I
feel like there's also a lot of really angry, unhappy,
miserable people out there that you know, don't know what
(14:30):
to do with themselves, and so they project a lot
of hate because they're so unhappy. And once you realize that,
and right now, it's a terrible time for the world
and so much um so many people are unsure about
their future, their jobs and and where their next mortgage
payment is going to come from, or rent or food,
(14:52):
and so there are a lot of people out there
right now that are really struggling, and I feel horrible
about that. But all through the years, you know, you
experience different things, and for us as a family, you know,
we try to focus on places where we can help
in times like this, and that makes us, you know,
(15:14):
feel good about being able to help somebody. Yea as
a beauty founder and and I was still at Bobby
Brown Cosmetics when Kylie's Lip Kits came out and you
(15:37):
sold out within fifteen minutes? Like, what did you do?
And how did that feel? Yeah, I think it was
less than four minutes, to be honest, yeah, it was
crazy for seconds. I don't know, it was just done.
My gosh, I should have that memorized. But um, you know,
(15:58):
when we started the brand, highly knew exactly what she wanted.
She was the one who came to me and said, Okay,
I figured this out. Mom. I want to be in
the beauty business. I am obsessed with makeup and skincare
and beauty and hair and all of it. Fragrance. I
want to be in the business, and I want to
start out with UM Color Cosmetics and I want to
(16:18):
do a lip kit. And I thought, okay. It was
just such a revelation. I mean, she just came like
she was, you know, a CEO, and came and said,
this is the plan. And I said, well, I'll tell
you the plan. If you want to do this, you
start out with three colors. We'll see if it works.
And they better be colors you love, because it's either
(16:40):
going to go really well and you know sell, or
you're gonna be wearing this lipstick your life. And she
designed the box. She had done a photo shoot previously
UM with Mike Rosenthal Um who's Jen atkins husband, a photographer,
and had done the Dripping Lips and um, he had
(17:04):
made this image for her, so I said, use that image.
It's already done, and we'll get somebody to develop the
developed the lip kit. And that's how it started. And
I told her, you have to use your own money
and you will own this all by yourself. You don't
want five cents from your mommy. You just want to
do this. And she did. And she just was so
(17:26):
impressive her work ethic and her creativity and her focus
on design and quality of the product, and all the
little things that you would think, uh, somebody else would
have done. She did every bit of it. It was
just amazing. And it's grown so quickly, and you sold
it this year she sold uh, approximately half of her
(17:52):
company to Cody. Yes, so she still owns half and
she has involved as ever. Is she Yes, she is.
She's working on skin right now wholeheartedly and so excited
about the holiday and has a big surprise for everybody
in color for for the holidays. So I'm so excited
(18:15):
about that. I'm especially obsessed with what she's doing, so
that'll be a great surprise. But yeah, she works on
it every day and she's always got a great idea.
I got a call yesterday, UM from she was shooting
something and I guess in the middle of the shoot
she had an idea and she goes, I want my
(18:35):
mom to come to the YouTube studio with the office
and I wanted to do my makeup. So it was
really cute. I'm like, oh boy, why don't we do
it the other way around? So you know, she's always
thinking of something fun for us to do together, and
and she's great. And then and then Kim, how do
you keep it separate? Or how do the girls keep
(18:57):
it separate? You know, because they're competing companies and they're
they're different, right, They're well, they're very different. Um. I
think they're also very different in age. UM. You know,
Kim's gonna be forty this year, believe it or not,
and Kylie just turned twenty three. So you know, there's
a nice gap there that really UM Kim's keeps her
(19:22):
UM you know, her line very different from Kylie, but
they have very different tastes and they're almost you know,
like a different generation. So that makes it nice. It's
not like it, you know, it was too close an
age so and there UM focused on such different things
and the packaging is just incredibly exactly the opposite, you know,
(19:43):
the one eighty of one another. So I feel like
at first it was a little um interesting because of
the launches that they were having, you know, I think
that it was important to kind of schedule things and
stagger and cre it at cadence within the two companies
to where they were each having their time to breathe
(20:06):
when they would come out with a new product. And
they really handled that beautifully. So I was really proud
of them for that. And the two of them have
such incredible work ethic. I mean, they all do, but
especially in the beauty business. You know, as you know
better than anybody, it changes daily, you know, and you
just beauty doesn't sleep. So do you have a master
calendar that has all the big launches so you know,
(20:29):
no one steals the internet from the other one, they
all their time. I have a lot of master calendars,
But that's my yeah, that's my uh my, My main
one is just all the different things that are going
on because there's so many of us that surely daily
you know, there's something that's launching, or somebody's doing something
(20:52):
you know, on on a podcast like this or maybe
a TV show, et cetera. So yeah, we just um
try to be super respectful of each other in that
regard and make sure that, um, we support each other.
I think that's what's so great is if the girls
spread their things out so that they can support each
(21:15):
other because they really want to. So when one of
them has something that's going on, the others can can
post for them and and really get the message out
on social And they work, they help each other. They
work together all the time. They do all the time. Yeah,
and it's a it's a huge we have such a
(21:36):
big family text change. So this morning, just right before
I got on this podcast, Um, you know, Kendall's team
was texting all of us saying, Kendall is about to
go a lot. You know, if there's always an announcement,
there's always great excitement. I think Chloe's the biggest cheerleader,
Like no matter what you say, Chloe's like, oh my god,
(21:58):
congratulations and luck and you know, Chloe's like, if you're
ever down for a minute or two, just called Chloe
and she gets you right back on your feet. But
how do you keep it straight? Like how do you
do as much as you do? Because you always seem
to have it together do have twelve assistants are to
get up at five in the morning, like, what are
some of the things you do to keep yourself together? Well, um,
(22:22):
this morning I got up at four actually because I
had a lot to take care of. I had to
start with calls on the East Coast, a couple in Europe.
Then I have to go over with uh our business
strategists from New York a few things, and then my publicist.
You know, there's just a list of tons of things
(22:43):
to go over, and then checking in with our general
counsel and what's happening with different contracts and deals that
we're working on and where we're at, who needs an
answer to what? And then from there it goes into um,
you know, one of the first being as I get
about seven o'clock, I guess is my assistant Matthew will
send me the day schedule and any changes from the
(23:07):
night before, and you know, just see what I need.
And then almost every day we film, so it's getting
wardrobe together for that, which I've just been kind of
grabbing lately because there's there's so much to to keep
up with, and so I grabbed that throw out my
(23:28):
car and then I'm on the road for a while,
or going over to one of my kids house to
film for a while and back here for more calls.
It just never hints, which I think. I love the uh,
the adrenaline of it all. You know, it's very exciting.
I keep thinking of four am. What time did you
go to sleep? I think I go to bed every night.
(23:50):
I fall asleep probably at ten. I probably go to
bed at seven or eight sometimes because I'm just exhausted
when you get up that early and you're going hard
and your brain is working and your physical and you're
running around. I do my first hour and a half
every morning in the gym or on the treadmill. So
(24:12):
this morning, at four, when I was rolling all my calls,
I'm on the treadmill. So I got four miles in
or five miles in before I took a shower. And
what about coffee? Oh, the coffee. Coffee was at four
oh one. Okay, that's okay, two cups of coffee and
then um, I've never done this before, but lately I've
(24:32):
been having like a three o'clock coffee in the afternoon.
Are you someone that likes a nightly cocktail? Do you
save that for special I love a nightly cocktail. I
love to have a glass of wine or mostly of
vodka soda. So I'll have a vodka soda with some lime,
and that just kind of like winds me down because
(24:54):
I can get really wound up for the day and
it's like, Okay, it's five o'clock, let's have our you know,
have a drink. I love my vodka on the rocks
with um. If i'm during the week, I'll have cucumber
in my vodka and make it a spa vodka. Weekends,
I'll have three olives a spa vodka. But is the
(25:14):
three all of vodka martini or do you know? I
just I do it on the rocks because then it
takes me, like, you know, I don't drink it so quickly,
so I try to have one very good idea. Yeah,
I let the ice melt and I try to have one.
But um, but the cucumber is very refreshing and it,
you know, and it adds water to your body, which
(25:34):
is nice. Oh water. Okay. Do you know Vera whang
I do? She loves her and I would go to Mr.
Chow's when she would come to l A and she
would order a vodka rocks and then a side of
orange juice. And I used to love it going to
(25:55):
dinner with her Mr Chaws because we would sit and
sip our vodka orange juice. But it was out of
vodka orange juice. There were two separate ones. Yeah, and
I guess we just added a little every time we
needed some more, you know, so we could mix the
drink ourselves. It was fun. And when can we expect
the Chris uh line of cosmetics that I think would
(26:18):
be such a hit, you're so cute. Well, I had
a collab with Kylie that I loved doing, called Momager,
and um, she surprised me with it. Actually, it was
really really sweet. I came to a design meeting one
day and the team put it all out. It was
(26:38):
all out on the table and I walked into the
office and I made me cry. I mean, it was
the sweetest thing. So she had done every single product
that was in the collab, the lip kid and the
eyeshadow palette and just the whole all of it. And um,
and she had the cutest names all you know, picked
(27:00):
out and we refined some of those later, but um,
it was one of the sweetest things ever. And it
did really well, so you never know, I really enjoyed
that time and that was a moment and I'll never
forget that she did that. It would be fun to
do something in beauty. I love skincare and I love
(27:20):
I love all of it. And didn't you trademark momager?
I did, So there's the line. I don't know that's
what I would call the the the actual line, but um,
it would be fun to do something. This podcast is
(27:48):
called Beyond the Beauty, so I'd love to ask you
what does beauty mean to you? You know, beauty used
to me when I was younger, beauty meant more about
the physical, and as you get older, you realize that
beauty is really more about what's inside and then how
(28:09):
how that transcends to the outside. You know, I think
it's how somebody feels about themselves. And I've always been
somebody I learned from my mother. But whenever she left
the house every day, she would put her best foot forward.
She would look her bad, she would have the cutest
little outfit on. She'd always have her makeup on and
her hair really cute. And to this day she's eighty
(28:31):
six years old and she puts her hair beautiful, and
she'll wear a little hat and put her outfit on
and puts her makeup and her lipstick. I learned a
lot from my mom that when you do look your best,
you feel your best, and you know you can really
um uh change your whole day and your whole outlook.
(28:54):
But I truly I think for me personally, I love
to look my best because it does make me feel better.
But I love to feel my best inside. And I
think there's a certain amount of stress that weighs on
a woman that's not so healthy, you know, when we
get into a certain space in life, and I think
just to feel more of a joy and a data
(29:16):
vie and a happiness and a peace. I work on
that these days, really trying to find this inner place
that feels beautiful. Well, what are just then? What are
some of your favorite skin care products and makeup products?
What are you into these days? Well, um, I'm totally
(29:36):
you know, obviously Kylie Kylie Cosmetics and Kylie Skin and
her new hyaluronic acid is my new best friend. And
then I'm obsessed with Kim's body makeup. Kim's body makeup
makes you look like you have like you know, gorgeous
legs and arms and you know everything with this bar makeup.
(30:00):
So that's that's my obsession. But I'm always been obsessed
with your beauty line. I really it's not my beauty
line anymore, but I'm glad you liked it all back
in the day, back and all Bobby Brown. And then
I love um Lamar skin cream. I love their skin
(30:21):
care line. Love that. I love um I love you
know what I love. I love Anastasia. I love I
can't go without her eyebrows, you know, the eyebrow pencils
that she's I mean, she's a genius. And she's been
so kind and generous to my family and helping us
(30:42):
navigate some important decisions that we've made along the way,
and she's just been such a good friend. But she
has got the most fabulous makeup line. Yeah, she's a
wonderful lady. She really is. And then what about your
health and wellness? What do you do on the inside, Like,
what what is food? Vitamins? What do you do that
keeps you so focused and feeling good? Well? I take
(31:07):
a vitamin. Finally, I wasn't doing that as much, but
I eat a lot of salads and I think that
when you eat vegetables. I love fresh vegetables and you know,
clean food. I'm the first one displurge on something or
have birthday cake out of friends if it's somebody's birthday.
But I try to keep the sugar out of the
picture because I've watched way too many sugar documentaries and
(31:30):
the damage that that does to our insides. Um. But
I'm just trying, like everybody else to figure it out.
The diet thing I think is crucial to our health,
especially as we get older, and nutrition and just you know, um,
being really clean from the inside out. And it's amazing
(31:52):
how we have tortured our bodies over the years. You know. Um,
when I think back to some of this stuff I
fed my kids when they were babies, you know, it
was always mac and cheese and you know, apple sauce
and stuff like that. So I've really tried to um
eat let's uh meats and just trying to adapt a
(32:16):
better lifestyle and focus on my nutrition. Well, Chris, it's
been amazing, and I feel so guilty taking up your time,
knowing what else you have in your day. I can't
even I can't even imagine when one last question though,
because I'm just curious. No, it's fine. When you guys
get together as a family at night, how do you
(32:38):
shut the business part off and just have family time?
Like yeah, um, well, actually we're gonna have a barbecue
today at four thirty and everybody will go over to
Courtney's house and we have the best time. You know
what it is, it's having ten grandchildren. And when you
have ten beautiful children who all are different have something
(33:02):
different going on. There's three or four of them that
are practically triplets or quadruplets because they do everything together.
My kids call them the triplets. And then my grandson Mason,
who's ten, and there's just so much going on, you know,
and there's such little sponges and they have so much
to say and it's so delicious, and it's just I
(33:24):
get so excited, and I have a different relationship with
each one of them, so it's really fun to I'll
get together and that takes up all my time, so
there's really no more time for business. It's like, Okay,
let's all turn it off and play with the kids.
Well that's really what life's about. And you are a
lucky lady. I hope that this virus will go somewhere
and eventually I could actually meet you in person. I'm
(33:46):
looking forward to it. I can't wait, Bobby, thank you
so much. I really look forward to meeting you two
and spending some time together. Same here, big kiss and
I'll be looking fear line. Let me know when you're ready,
you two, okay, I will I well. For more podcasts
from I Heart Radio, visit the I Heart Radio app,
(34:08):
Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
H
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