January 20, 2021 • 26 mins
Gucci Westman is a celebrity makeup artist whose clients have ranged from Cameron Diaz, to Jennifer Aniston, to Natalie Portman. She’s also an entrepreneur and cosmetic designer who founded the clean makeup line Westman Atelier. This week, Gucci joins Bobbi to talk about how she went from working movie sets to Vogue covers, how she built her all-star client list, her aims for the makeup she formulates—and why true beauty goes well beyond looks.
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Beyond the Beauty is a production of I Heart Radio.
I'm your host, Bobby Brown. So Gucci Westman came upon
the scene when I was still at the Bobby Brown
Cosmetics brand. But I watched her and I thought she
(00:26):
was so cool, and all of a sudden, she just
popped up and was doing every cover and every celebrity
and I was like, who is this girl? And then
I met her and we became instant friends. Gucci Westman
launched her brand Westman Altelier in Barney's in two thousand
and eighteen. Her brand is beautiful, it's clean. I'm really
(00:51):
excited to talk to Gucci, to hear her path, how
she went from being a makeup artist to brand founder,
and just catch up and see everything she's doing. So
here's my conversation with Gucci Westman. Hey, Gucci, Hi, Bobby,
It's so nice to see you. It's so nice to
see you. I was so honored to be asked to
(01:11):
do this. And as you know, I always talk about you.
I'm one of your biggest fans. I always actually talk
about you as a mentor, you know. For me. Well,
I've been I've been watching and I have been amazed
and proud, and I don't know how you're doing what
you're doing while raising the three kids, and uh, you know,
(01:36):
I especially during this pandemic, I've just been watching every
little thing is we are all doing, I know, I mean,
I think it's it's kind of incredible that we have
been as as a culture your note. I feel like
we're quite resourceful and and shifting over to what is working,
you know, such as podcast and and things like that.
(01:58):
And I think the productive for us has been really
amazing and inspiring and impressive. It's like, who knew? I
I thought, you know, this was definitely not what I
had predicted, which is great. But you're but you are
a true entrepreneur, because if you're not an entrepreneur, it's
easy to say, oh, everything so bad. You know, we're
(02:20):
in lockdown, you can't do anything, can't get out. And
you know you shifted. I saw you shift, you know.
I mean, you know we're we're gonna, we're gonna go
back first. But I know that when one of the
stores you were enclosed, you know, that must have been
a big bummer. When you were in Barney's, like that
was a big, you know deal for you. Yeah, that
was a big deal. I still am so saddened by
(02:43):
what happened to Barney's. You know, we felt like it
was such a perfect platform for us to launch with them,
you know, the type of boutique environment and how it's
really for it leads itself, you know to specialty kind
of littler brands, I feel, and that was that was tough. Luckily,
(03:04):
you know David, you know David well, my husband, he
is he kind of you know, saw it coming, so
we didn't suffer too much, which, um, you know, it's
fortunate in terms of loss, but of course it's sad
that they closed and we had to quickly, you know,
be as nimble as we could and and pivot. And
(03:26):
Gucci's um adorable, gorgeous, brilliant husband is David Neville. Is
that how you say his last name? Yeah, one of
the founders of um Rag and Bone, still still one
of my go to clothing lines. But I met him
early on, you know, before you even launched. But where
did I meet you the first time? Because I'm trying
(03:47):
to remember. I think the first time we met in
person was in London at Cadugan Garden or either the
con not to tell and you were there doing press
and I there, or maybe you were doing a fashion
show and press and I was doing the same, you know,
and I met you in the lobby you were checking in,
(04:09):
and I had to just like run up to you
and say I love you and you're such an inspiration. Oh,
I remember the other way I ran up to you
and I spotted you and told you I loved you.
But whatever, one of us did it so. And then
I think I joined you and Steven for dinner. I
think I just crashed your dinner because I was going
(04:30):
downstairs and I saw you again, and I just wanted
to soak up as much time with Bobby as I
possibly could. And I remember talking about possibly, you know,
you doing a line. I was still with the brand
at the time, and you know you talked about going
into skincare before makeup. Yeah, and you told me that
was ridiculous. Well that was that was Actually we had
(04:53):
maybe spent a little bit more time, and you said,
so what are you doing. What's happening with your line?
And I said, well, you know, I'm kind of thinking
I want to start with skincare. And it felt very
sort of as I said it, I felt, how not
convinced I was myself. And and then you really solidified that,
(05:15):
uh that moment because you said, people know you for makeup,
you need to do you need to start with makeup,
and and that you know, kind of stuck with me
and resonated, and you know, and the rest and the
rest is history. I mean, so, um, let's go back
for a second, because I I don't always go back
to people's you know, childhood, but yours is so interesting.
(05:37):
You were born in California and were your parents hippies
calling you gucci? Yeah, they were hit Well, it gets
even even better or weirder, because yes, my parents were hippies. Um.
And my given name when I was born was Chelsea
after the Joni Mitchell song Chelsea Morning. And and so
(05:59):
we moved to an ostrom a Kundalini ostrom when I
was you know, I guess that was maybe one or
something like that. And you get given ostrom or you know,
sort of Hindu names, and mine was Guru Charon, which
means he who sits at the lowest sweet of the guru.
It's I didn't even get a she. I got a he,
(06:20):
and which kind of is telling. And I remember my
my parents best friend at the time, Gary, and his
nickname when he was younger was Gooch Gucci, and so
he started calling me Gucci and it kind of stuck,
and then he consequently named his daughter Googi. Oh God,
how lucky did you get? I felt like, oh, at
(06:42):
least I got a little bit, you know. But then,
you know, I grew up in Sweden because my dad
is Swedish. So when I was ten, we moved to
Sweden and Gucci was a complicated name to have growing
up in Sweden. So what was your first job as
a makeup oars? And how did you even and decide
you wanted to be a makeup artist? So I went
(07:03):
to make up school in Paris to you know, kind
of wind back a bit, and it lasted for a year,
but I decided I got what I needed after four months,
and then someone told me about a makeup school in
in l A called Joe Blasgow and it was only
an eight week course or something like that, and I
(07:24):
ended up going there. It was terrible. They asked me
to teach after two weeks and I thought, this just
shows how not much of a real kind of education
this is, clearly and I they told us that we
needed a tackle box for makeup, and we needed to
hire a director's chair, and we needed some type of torch.
(07:47):
It was so stupid. It's like you would never need
any of those things as a working makeup artist, as
you know, Bobby, as you need a toolbox, where are
you gonna put your makeup? I know, but it wasn't
like a tackle box though. I mean, that was so
heavy and bulk it wasn't anyways. Of course, I got
all those things, and I got some crappy car. I
(08:09):
borrowed money from my great aunt Rita to get this
Fiat spider that always broke down. And I had my
director's chair and my things in the back. And then
they told us Joe Blastgow to go to the American
Film Institute and look for work. So I I signed
myself up for a deferred payment movie where I then
(08:29):
was hired to do wardrobe, hair makeup. I think I
did some form of continuity. That was my first kind
of job that, you know, doing multiple people's makeup. But
I remember when I first started hearing about you, I
was still a working makeup artist, but I was more
(08:50):
into the brand at the time, and so my freelance
career kind of got behind me, and I never wanted
to let it go, but I had to because I
just didn't have time. Anytime anyone called a job, I
couldn't commit to it or I was busy. But I
remember I started seeing your name in Harper's Bazaar and
I was like, Gucci, Gucci, Gucci. I'm like, who the
hell is Gucci? Like your rise was really quick, and
(09:13):
you you have a lot of enviable like clients and
fashion shows. What were some of the early big things
where you were like, all right, I've arrived and how
did you get them? So? I don't know that I
ever really acknowledged that feeling I have arrived. I felt
like it was constantly evolving, you know. And I'm sure
(09:34):
you can relate to that feeling as a freelance makeup artist.
But I I had started in l A. When I
lived there, I had started to meet people such as
Spike Jones, and I was doing a lot of music
videos and commercials with him, and he was very loyal
to his team, and once I kind of joined that crew,
(09:55):
that was it. I was always asked to do you know,
those videos and all those things, and that was really fun.
We just had so much fun and it was so
creative in terms of the concept. Then I simultaneously met
Um Bruce Weber and Annie Leeb of Its and it
all happened, you know, through a photographer named Paul Jasmine,
(10:18):
who is this wonderful photographer who lives in l A.
So I ended up doing a lot of Italian vogue
and things like that with Bruce, and uh, Annie hired me.
I was working at a special effects lab called Todd
Masters in the Valley. So because I wanted to learn
everything I could, I just wanted to soak up but
(10:38):
get as much time in the saddle as I possibly
could in terms of experience. So I wanted to learn
to do special effects and and uh so I worked
at Todd Masters and I had a terrible headache every
day because of the resin and all the chemicals. But
then they were hired to do a shoot with for
Vanity Fair with Annie and to create a pedal of mud.
(11:02):
And Lori Goldstein, the stylist, was on that shoot, and
she ended up you know, fast forward a few months,
I worked with her another time assisting Paul Star on
a Vanity Fair shoot. Cool. That's a that's a big break,
but you're also your highlights include all these cool celebrities
(11:23):
that you are friends with. So how did you get
in this like cool circle of Hollywood it girls? Well,
I back to Spike, you know, it all kind of
like was a puzzle that sort of like just got
you know, fell into place. Um. But going back to
Spike Jones, he asked me, well, first I did this
(11:43):
movie called Being John Malkovich. All right, Buffalo sixty six
was first, and that wasn't like necessarily a fun experience,
but it was I think cool and hindsight to have
done it. And I was friends with Christina Ricci and
you know, so I did that. That was a month
in Buffalo, and then Spike asked me if I would
(12:05):
do this movie called Being John Malkovich. And I said,
I'm not really that interested in movies. It wasn't fun,
I didn't you know, I didn't really like the experience,
and he said, but this one's going to be different.
So of course he ended up convincing me, and I
became very good friends with Cameron Diaz, and after we
(12:25):
we wrapped the movie, she said, how would you like
to come to New York with me and do some
shoots and Saturday Night Live, and I thought I had.
That's when I was like, are you serious? I thought
I had died and gone to heaven. So I ended
up going to New York with her. She mentioned my
name on Letterman because I did this blue eye shadow,
(12:45):
and she said my makeup artisticus, you know, because he
was asking about the blue eye shadow. And then I
did a cover of Harper's Bazaar with Patrick Demolscher with her,
and that was my first big editorial cover on a
big actors. Uh and and and you've done You've done
a lot. I mean, are you still like actively working
(13:06):
as a makeup ours. I know right now there's shoots
are starting to happen again. How are you handling all that? Yeah,
I mean, I'm I'm fortunate to have clients that are
very loyal that I would always, you know, say yes too.
But I don't, however, want to travel really, you know,
at the moment, I don't. I may be able to
(13:28):
be kind of convinced, but at the moment, I don't
really feel like getting on an aeroplane to l A,
which is where most of them live. But I've worked
with you know, Jenni Franiston and um Kate Hudson and
some of these girls that I've worked with for a
long time. And yeah, I don't know. I think it
just really was a combination of word of mouth and momentum.
(13:49):
You know, it was really the timing was really kind
of great for me. How long has it been since
(14:10):
your makeup company has launched? So we launched with Barney's
in two thousand and eighteen, and we we kind of
just had no doubt that Barney's was the right launching
partner for us because of the size, the scale of
our brand. We're growing a little by little, but we
we thought, we felt that we would disappear in in
(14:32):
certain other kind of environments, but we felt that Barney's
can really help nurture us. And when we went to
Barney's and we were discussing our ideas and we said
we wanted to be a refillable brand, and they said, well,
that's not gonna work for us, that's not a business
model that we can sustain here. And you know, so
then we we kind of obviously we funded the brand ourselves,
(14:53):
and we thought we we can't launch then with them.
If they're going to say that that's not gonna work.
So we are now, of course working toward becoming refillable,
which we will be. Our compacts will be the first
thing to be refillable in and we are completely committed
to being as sustainable as we possibly can. You know,
(15:16):
so um, But it's like you, we're constantly trying to
be reflective as a group of individuals at Westman Italier
and and kind of learn and see where we can
do more, how we can do better. And you know,
constantly I think curious, well your makeup has your makeup
(15:36):
style really reflects in your brand? I mean you're known
for you know this clean, beautiful even skin, and that
seems to be what you're you know, what you're going for.
Like talk to talk about what you think the the
Westman you know woman looks like, well, I think that
there's there's definitely that's my personal aesthetic, you know. I
(16:00):
think there's definitely something for for people who have a
desire to have more coverage or more expression in terms
of their makeup. But I just for me, I was
so compelled by the performance aspect, combining the ingredients, focusing
(16:21):
on the safety, the responsibility of the ingredients, the sustainability
of the ingredients, their efficacy, and also um have them performed,
because I felt like there was something I couldn't really
find that on the market when I was looking for
something that was really driven by these kind of two
factors like the wellness and the performance. Of course, I
(16:44):
wanted to look chic as well and feel beautiful and
have kind of evoke an emotional moment and and feel joyful.
And I just wanted to to inject these things into
a brand that felt clean for me. And I had
a lot of experience, you know, working with labs with Lancombe.
(17:05):
You know, I was there their creative director, global artistic
director for five years, and I worked very closely with
the chemist, you know, I always I worked with them.
Every two weeks, I went to Paris and I worked
at the lab, and I learned that this magic can
happen when you are working directly with the chemist. And
I never, you know, sort of forgot about that and
(17:27):
and that kind of engagement that you have with these
people who are such incredible formulators, and when they can
understand what you're trying to achieve coming from you to them,
you know, then it's that's a different kind of outcome.
I think because they really understand the passion behind it,
(17:47):
the desire to create something that is specific. And I
want to share this idea of my kind of philosophy
on how I I like to see women and I
love amplifying them and making them, you know, just an
enhanced version of themselves. I'm not a big fan of
(18:07):
transformation when it comes to um, you know, real life makeup.
Of course, when it when it's makeup artistry and you're
doing a shoot, it's different. But my I've always liked
to see the skin penetrate. And I don't have perfect skin.
I have rosatia, but I do feel like, you know,
it's frustrating, but I feel like it was a great
(18:28):
catalyst for the brand and and I feel like you
can kind of fake it, you know, And even if
I don't have perfect skin, I can kind of fake it.
And you know, just kind of not having the approach
of masking everything, you know, accepting your flaws a little
bit and working with them or areas that you aren't
so so into, you know, I feel like you can
(18:50):
kind of work with what you have and make it
better and you boost yourself with with this confidence. But
I will ask you, what do you think you learned
from working with Land and how you run your brand, Now,
that's a great question. Lancom was a very well respected
French uh cosmetic experiand that I grew up. My first
(19:12):
makeup product that I ever bought myself that was expensive
was beyond Um from Lancom, and I used it to
make my skin look tan, you know. And that was
when I was maybe fifteen, and I remember thinking, oh,
this is so expensive, I better make it last. And
(19:33):
I think I learned from Lancome how to you know,
to the reach for a product development has to be
a larger kind of focus. It can't just be your
immediate kind of idea of a woman. It has to
be a global concept. And you learned quickly what works,
what doesn't work, where you can cut corners where you
(19:55):
shouldn't cut corners. And there was just a tremendous, a
tremendous respect for what I did in that house. You know,
they they look to me for everything from the spokes
models to you know, the entire lineup to creating limited
edition products to travel to you know, it's very sort
(20:17):
of immersive and a really strong partnership. And I learned
so much from that and what's the culture inside your business?
How would you describe it? We have such a strong team.
Everybody loves what we're doing, and you can feel it.
I think they're they're all in this mission because they
(20:40):
want to be part of something that is, you know,
do it. It feels as if we're doing something that
we're proud of. It's there's a transparency. I feel like
none of us will ever stop until we've kind of
are satisfied. People want to do something special. I mean,
I think especially now, there's so much out there that
(21:03):
is not working that it's so nice to see something
that is working. So congratulations to you and to David. So.
Since this show is called Beyond the Beauty, I always
(21:24):
ask my guests the simple question of what does beauty
mean to you? That's a great question. I think, you know,
when people are really comfortable and confident in their skin,
they become more beautiful. To me. I think that the aesthetic.
Of course, I'm a very aesthetic person. I love aesthetic.
(21:48):
You know, if it's architecture, if it's interior design, if
it's animals. On a superficial level, you can see a
person's face first, you know, but then when you start
to get to know. Um. They can become either more
beautiful or less beautiful, depending on who they are, how
they carry themselves, what their priorities are in life. I
(22:12):
think it's really an all encompassing thing to be beautiful.
So I just have a couple more questions. Talk to
me about your health, your diet, exercise, supplements. You know,
I know all those things are important, Like what could
people that are listening take away? What are you loving
these days? You know? So I just want to say
(22:33):
that I'm not like always super healthy for sure, I
believe in an eight twenty type of philosophy. I exercise
fairly regularly. I would say at least six days a
week I do something maybe seven. So I do believe,
you know, that exercise. Starting the day with exercises energizing.
I drink hot water with lemon when I my first
(22:56):
thing that I have in the morning and for because
I kind of alternate lately, I've been having blueberries, Kiwi
apple and almond butter, and then I make my own
almond milk and that I just make an almond milk latte.
And I love this blue Stone Lane Australian coffee. For lunch,
(23:18):
I tend to have lentils and just the lentil salad
or lentil soup usually because it's filling and it's satisfying.
And I and then dinner, what do I have. I mean,
my brother's amazing cooking, so you know, I don't have
that much fish, but that's maybe once a week now
(23:40):
I have fish tacos or some kind of grilled fish
with veggies and brown rice or you know. And I'm
I'm actually not drinking alcohol during the week. How you
do that? I know that was that it just became
I felt like, you know, we have to kind of
(24:01):
try to pretend that we're living in some type of
normalcy and we didn't drink, you know, during the week
in the city if we weren't you know, going out socializing,
and it just feels good to kind of have, you know,
be more focused and less foggy. I mean, of course,
at night when it's cozy and sitting by the fire something,
(24:22):
you on a glass of red wine. But I'm trying
not to um. And what about supplements. I'm obsessed with supplements.
I feel like they're I've really I'm super into my supplements.
And I work with this doctor in l a doctor
Dominic Red and she specializes in women's health and hormones
(24:43):
and preventative aging, and so I will do anything she
tells me. Very cool, brilliant. And finally, what are some
of the products you cannot live without? Well? Uh, of
products that cannot live without? I mean from my line.
(25:06):
I love our Vital Skin foundation. You know, I have
rose Sha. I love my Beauty butter Bronzer. The brushes
are as you know, the the quality, They're beautiful, they're sustainable,
and they're the qualities really really they're Um. I love
the mascara. I don't know, I love. It's kind of
(25:27):
like an edit for me. So I use all of it. Um,
and then what products I need? Purple shampoo? My hair
gets red otherwise. I like Rahua they make really nice,
clean purple shampoo and conditioner. Um. What other products can
(25:47):
I not live without? I really love this body Bomb
by Map and Stokes. It feels super hydrating and just
great on your skin. Well, everyone's gonna have to tune
into your Instagram in your Insta stories, because you are
really good at sharing some of the of your favorite things.
I'm really proud of you. I just have to say
(26:07):
I'm really proud of you. I UM, I love your brand,
I love what you stand for, and UM, you know,
I think people out there are loving what they're buying.
And keep up the good work. Thank you, Bobby. For
more podcasts from I Heart Radio, visit the I Heart
Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to your
(26:30):
favorite shows.
Beyond the Beauty is a production of I Heart Radio.
I'm your host, Bobby Brown. So Gucci Westman came upon
the scene when I was still at the Bobby Brown
Cosmetics brand. But I watched her and I thought she
(00:26):
was so cool, and all of a sudden, she just
popped up and was doing every cover and every celebrity
and I was like, who is this girl? And then
I met her and we became instant friends. Gucci Westman
launched her brand Westman Altelier in Barney's in two thousand
and eighteen. Her brand is beautiful, it's clean. I'm really
(00:51):
excited to talk to Gucci, to hear her path, how
she went from being a makeup artist to brand founder,
and just catch up and see everything she's doing. So
here's my conversation with Gucci Westman. Hey, Gucci, Hi, Bobby,
It's so nice to see you. It's so nice to
see you. I was so honored to be asked to
(01:11):
do this. And as you know, I always talk about you.
I'm one of your biggest fans. I always actually talk
about you as a mentor, you know. For me. Well,
I've been I've been watching and I have been amazed
and proud, and I don't know how you're doing what
you're doing while raising the three kids, and uh, you know,
(01:36):
I especially during this pandemic, I've just been watching every
little thing is we are all doing, I know, I mean,
I think it's it's kind of incredible that we have
been as as a culture your note. I feel like
we're quite resourceful and and shifting over to what is working,
you know, such as podcast and and things like that.
(01:58):
And I think the productive for us has been really
amazing and inspiring and impressive. It's like, who knew? I
I thought, you know, this was definitely not what I
had predicted, which is great. But you're but you are
a true entrepreneur, because if you're not an entrepreneur, it's
easy to say, oh, everything so bad. You know, we're
(02:20):
in lockdown, you can't do anything, can't get out. And
you know you shifted. I saw you shift, you know.
I mean, you know we're we're gonna, we're gonna go
back first. But I know that when one of the
stores you were enclosed, you know, that must have been
a big bummer. When you were in Barney's, like that
was a big, you know deal for you. Yeah, that
was a big deal. I still am so saddened by
(02:43):
what happened to Barney's. You know, we felt like it
was such a perfect platform for us to launch with them,
you know, the type of boutique environment and how it's
really for it leads itself, you know to specialty kind
of littler brands, I feel, and that was that was tough. Luckily,
(03:04):
you know David, you know David well, my husband, he
is he kind of you know, saw it coming, so
we didn't suffer too much, which, um, you know, it's
fortunate in terms of loss, but of course it's sad
that they closed and we had to quickly, you know,
be as nimble as we could and and pivot. And
(03:26):
Gucci's um adorable, gorgeous, brilliant husband is David Neville. Is
that how you say his last name? Yeah, one of
the founders of um Rag and Bone, still still one
of my go to clothing lines. But I met him
early on, you know, before you even launched. But where
did I meet you the first time? Because I'm trying
(03:47):
to remember. I think the first time we met in
person was in London at Cadugan Garden or either the
con not to tell and you were there doing press
and I there, or maybe you were doing a fashion
show and press and I was doing the same, you know,
and I met you in the lobby you were checking in,
(04:09):
and I had to just like run up to you
and say I love you and you're such an inspiration. Oh,
I remember the other way I ran up to you
and I spotted you and told you I loved you.
But whatever, one of us did it so. And then
I think I joined you and Steven for dinner. I
think I just crashed your dinner because I was going
(04:30):
downstairs and I saw you again, and I just wanted
to soak up as much time with Bobby as I
possibly could. And I remember talking about possibly, you know,
you doing a line. I was still with the brand
at the time, and you know you talked about going
into skincare before makeup. Yeah, and you told me that
was ridiculous. Well that was that was Actually we had
(04:53):
maybe spent a little bit more time, and you said,
so what are you doing. What's happening with your line?
And I said, well, you know, I'm kind of thinking
I want to start with skincare. And it felt very
sort of as I said it, I felt, how not
convinced I was myself. And and then you really solidified that,
(05:15):
uh that moment because you said, people know you for makeup,
you need to do you need to start with makeup,
and and that you know, kind of stuck with me
and resonated, and you know, and the rest and the
rest is history. I mean, so, um, let's go back
for a second, because I I don't always go back
to people's you know, childhood, but yours is so interesting.
(05:37):
You were born in California and were your parents hippies
calling you gucci? Yeah, they were hit Well, it gets
even even better or weirder, because yes, my parents were hippies. Um.
And my given name when I was born was Chelsea
after the Joni Mitchell song Chelsea Morning. And and so
(05:59):
we moved to an ostrom a Kundalini ostrom when I
was you know, I guess that was maybe one or
something like that. And you get given ostrom or you know,
sort of Hindu names, and mine was Guru Charon, which
means he who sits at the lowest sweet of the guru.
It's I didn't even get a she. I got a he,
(06:20):
and which kind of is telling. And I remember my
my parents best friend at the time, Gary, and his
nickname when he was younger was Gooch Gucci, and so
he started calling me Gucci and it kind of stuck,
and then he consequently named his daughter Googi. Oh God,
how lucky did you get? I felt like, oh, at
(06:42):
least I got a little bit, you know. But then,
you know, I grew up in Sweden because my dad
is Swedish. So when I was ten, we moved to
Sweden and Gucci was a complicated name to have growing
up in Sweden. So what was your first job as
a makeup oars? And how did you even and decide
you wanted to be a makeup artist? So I went
(07:03):
to make up school in Paris to you know, kind
of wind back a bit, and it lasted for a year,
but I decided I got what I needed after four months,
and then someone told me about a makeup school in
in l A called Joe Blasgow and it was only
an eight week course or something like that, and I
(07:24):
ended up going there. It was terrible. They asked me
to teach after two weeks and I thought, this just
shows how not much of a real kind of education
this is, clearly and I they told us that we
needed a tackle box for makeup, and we needed to
hire a director's chair, and we needed some type of torch.
(07:47):
It was so stupid. It's like you would never need
any of those things as a working makeup artist, as
you know, Bobby, as you need a toolbox, where are
you gonna put your makeup? I know, but it wasn't
like a tackle box though. I mean, that was so
heavy and bulk it wasn't anyways. Of course, I got
all those things, and I got some crappy car. I
(08:09):
borrowed money from my great aunt Rita to get this
Fiat spider that always broke down. And I had my
director's chair and my things in the back. And then
they told us Joe Blastgow to go to the American
Film Institute and look for work. So I I signed
myself up for a deferred payment movie where I then
(08:29):
was hired to do wardrobe, hair makeup. I think I
did some form of continuity. That was my first kind
of job that, you know, doing multiple people's makeup. But
I remember when I first started hearing about you, I
was still a working makeup artist, but I was more
(08:50):
into the brand at the time, and so my freelance
career kind of got behind me, and I never wanted
to let it go, but I had to because I
just didn't have time. Anytime anyone called a job, I
couldn't commit to it or I was busy. But I
remember I started seeing your name in Harper's Bazaar and
I was like, Gucci, Gucci, Gucci. I'm like, who the
hell is Gucci? Like your rise was really quick, and
(09:13):
you you have a lot of enviable like clients and
fashion shows. What were some of the early big things
where you were like, all right, I've arrived and how
did you get them? So? I don't know that I
ever really acknowledged that feeling I have arrived. I felt
like it was constantly evolving, you know. And I'm sure
(09:34):
you can relate to that feeling as a freelance makeup artist.
But I I had started in l A. When I
lived there, I had started to meet people such as
Spike Jones, and I was doing a lot of music
videos and commercials with him, and he was very loyal
to his team, and once I kind of joined that crew,
(09:55):
that was it. I was always asked to do you know,
those videos and all those things, and that was really fun.
We just had so much fun and it was so
creative in terms of the concept. Then I simultaneously met
Um Bruce Weber and Annie Leeb of Its and it
all happened, you know, through a photographer named Paul Jasmine,
(10:18):
who is this wonderful photographer who lives in l A.
So I ended up doing a lot of Italian vogue
and things like that with Bruce, and uh, Annie hired me.
I was working at a special effects lab called Todd
Masters in the Valley. So because I wanted to learn
everything I could, I just wanted to soak up but
(10:38):
get as much time in the saddle as I possibly
could in terms of experience. So I wanted to learn
to do special effects and and uh so I worked
at Todd Masters and I had a terrible headache every
day because of the resin and all the chemicals. But
then they were hired to do a shoot with for
Vanity Fair with Annie and to create a pedal of mud.
(11:02):
And Lori Goldstein, the stylist, was on that shoot, and
she ended up you know, fast forward a few months,
I worked with her another time assisting Paul Star on
a Vanity Fair shoot. Cool. That's a that's a big break,
but you're also your highlights include all these cool celebrities
(11:23):
that you are friends with. So how did you get
in this like cool circle of Hollywood it girls? Well,
I back to Spike, you know, it all kind of
like was a puzzle that sort of like just got
you know, fell into place. Um. But going back to
Spike Jones, he asked me, well, first I did this
(11:43):
movie called Being John Malkovich. All right, Buffalo sixty six
was first, and that wasn't like necessarily a fun experience,
but it was I think cool and hindsight to have
done it. And I was friends with Christina Ricci and
you know, so I did that. That was a month
in Buffalo, and then Spike asked me if I would
(12:05):
do this movie called Being John Malkovich. And I said,
I'm not really that interested in movies. It wasn't fun,
I didn't you know, I didn't really like the experience,
and he said, but this one's going to be different.
So of course he ended up convincing me, and I
became very good friends with Cameron Diaz, and after we
(12:25):
we wrapped the movie, she said, how would you like
to come to New York with me and do some
shoots and Saturday Night Live, and I thought I had.
That's when I was like, are you serious? I thought
I had died and gone to heaven. So I ended
up going to New York with her. She mentioned my
name on Letterman because I did this blue eye shadow,
(12:45):
and she said my makeup artisticus, you know, because he
was asking about the blue eye shadow. And then I
did a cover of Harper's Bazaar with Patrick Demolscher with her,
and that was my first big editorial cover on a
big actors. Uh and and and you've done You've done
a lot. I mean, are you still like actively working
(13:06):
as a makeup ours. I know right now there's shoots
are starting to happen again. How are you handling all that? Yeah,
I mean, I'm I'm fortunate to have clients that are
very loyal that I would always, you know, say yes too.
But I don't, however, want to travel really, you know,
at the moment, I don't. I may be able to
(13:28):
be kind of convinced, but at the moment, I don't
really feel like getting on an aeroplane to l A,
which is where most of them live. But I've worked
with you know, Jenni Franiston and um Kate Hudson and
some of these girls that I've worked with for a
long time. And yeah, I don't know. I think it
just really was a combination of word of mouth and momentum.
(13:49):
You know, it was really the timing was really kind
of great for me. How long has it been since
(14:10):
your makeup company has launched? So we launched with Barney's
in two thousand and eighteen, and we we kind of
just had no doubt that Barney's was the right launching
partner for us because of the size, the scale of
our brand. We're growing a little by little, but we
we thought, we felt that we would disappear in in
(14:32):
certain other kind of environments, but we felt that Barney's
can really help nurture us. And when we went to
Barney's and we were discussing our ideas and we said
we wanted to be a refillable brand, and they said, well,
that's not gonna work for us, that's not a business
model that we can sustain here. And you know, so
then we we kind of obviously we funded the brand ourselves,
(14:53):
and we thought we we can't launch then with them.
If they're going to say that that's not gonna work.
So we are now, of course working toward becoming refillable,
which we will be. Our compacts will be the first
thing to be refillable in and we are completely committed
to being as sustainable as we possibly can. You know,
(15:16):
so um, But it's like you, we're constantly trying to
be reflective as a group of individuals at Westman Italier
and and kind of learn and see where we can
do more, how we can do better. And you know,
constantly I think curious, well your makeup has your makeup
(15:36):
style really reflects in your brand? I mean you're known
for you know this clean, beautiful even skin, and that
seems to be what you're you know, what you're going for.
Like talk to talk about what you think the the
Westman you know woman looks like, well, I think that
there's there's definitely that's my personal aesthetic, you know. I
(16:00):
think there's definitely something for for people who have a
desire to have more coverage or more expression in terms
of their makeup. But I just for me, I was
so compelled by the performance aspect, combining the ingredients, focusing
(16:21):
on the safety, the responsibility of the ingredients, the sustainability
of the ingredients, their efficacy, and also um have them performed,
because I felt like there was something I couldn't really
find that on the market when I was looking for
something that was really driven by these kind of two
factors like the wellness and the performance. Of course, I
(16:44):
wanted to look chic as well and feel beautiful and
have kind of evoke an emotional moment and and feel joyful.
And I just wanted to to inject these things into
a brand that felt clean for me. And I had
a lot of experience, you know, working with labs with Lancombe.
(17:05):
You know, I was there their creative director, global artistic
director for five years, and I worked very closely with
the chemist, you know, I always I worked with them.
Every two weeks, I went to Paris and I worked
at the lab, and I learned that this magic can
happen when you are working directly with the chemist. And
I never, you know, sort of forgot about that and
(17:27):
and that kind of engagement that you have with these
people who are such incredible formulators, and when they can
understand what you're trying to achieve coming from you to them,
you know, then it's that's a different kind of outcome.
I think because they really understand the passion behind it,
(17:47):
the desire to create something that is specific. And I
want to share this idea of my kind of philosophy
on how I I like to see women and I
love amplifying them and making them, you know, just an
enhanced version of themselves. I'm not a big fan of
(18:07):
transformation when it comes to um, you know, real life makeup.
Of course, when it when it's makeup artistry and you're
doing a shoot, it's different. But my I've always liked
to see the skin penetrate. And I don't have perfect skin.
I have rosatia, but I do feel like, you know,
it's frustrating, but I feel like it was a great
(18:28):
catalyst for the brand and and I feel like you
can kind of fake it, you know, And even if
I don't have perfect skin, I can kind of fake it.
And you know, just kind of not having the approach
of masking everything, you know, accepting your flaws a little
bit and working with them or areas that you aren't
so so into, you know, I feel like you can
(18:50):
kind of work with what you have and make it
better and you boost yourself with with this confidence. But
I will ask you, what do you think you learned
from working with Land and how you run your brand, Now,
that's a great question. Lancom was a very well respected
French uh cosmetic experiand that I grew up. My first
(19:12):
makeup product that I ever bought myself that was expensive
was beyond Um from Lancom, and I used it to
make my skin look tan, you know. And that was
when I was maybe fifteen, and I remember thinking, oh,
this is so expensive, I better make it last. And
(19:33):
I think I learned from Lancome how to you know,
to the reach for a product development has to be
a larger kind of focus. It can't just be your
immediate kind of idea of a woman. It has to
be a global concept. And you learned quickly what works,
what doesn't work, where you can cut corners where you
(19:55):
shouldn't cut corners. And there was just a tremendous, a
tremendous respect for what I did in that house. You know,
they they look to me for everything from the spokes
models to you know, the entire lineup to creating limited
edition products to travel to you know, it's very sort
(20:17):
of immersive and a really strong partnership. And I learned
so much from that and what's the culture inside your business?
How would you describe it? We have such a strong team.
Everybody loves what we're doing, and you can feel it.
I think they're they're all in this mission because they
(20:40):
want to be part of something that is, you know,
do it. It feels as if we're doing something that
we're proud of. It's there's a transparency. I feel like
none of us will ever stop until we've kind of
are satisfied. People want to do something special. I mean,
I think especially now, there's so much out there that
(21:03):
is not working that it's so nice to see something
that is working. So congratulations to you and to David. So.
Since this show is called Beyond the Beauty, I always
(21:24):
ask my guests the simple question of what does beauty
mean to you? That's a great question. I think, you know,
when people are really comfortable and confident in their skin,
they become more beautiful. To me. I think that the aesthetic.
Of course, I'm a very aesthetic person. I love aesthetic.
(21:48):
You know, if it's architecture, if it's interior design, if
it's animals. On a superficial level, you can see a
person's face first, you know, but then when you start
to get to know. Um. They can become either more
beautiful or less beautiful, depending on who they are, how
they carry themselves, what their priorities are in life. I
(22:12):
think it's really an all encompassing thing to be beautiful.
So I just have a couple more questions. Talk to
me about your health, your diet, exercise, supplements. You know,
I know all those things are important, Like what could
people that are listening take away? What are you loving
these days? You know? So I just want to say
(22:33):
that I'm not like always super healthy for sure, I
believe in an eight twenty type of philosophy. I exercise
fairly regularly. I would say at least six days a
week I do something maybe seven. So I do believe,
you know, that exercise. Starting the day with exercises energizing.
I drink hot water with lemon when I my first
(22:56):
thing that I have in the morning and for because
I kind of alternate lately, I've been having blueberries, Kiwi
apple and almond butter, and then I make my own
almond milk and that I just make an almond milk latte.
And I love this blue Stone Lane Australian coffee. For lunch,
(23:18):
I tend to have lentils and just the lentil salad
or lentil soup usually because it's filling and it's satisfying.
And I and then dinner, what do I have. I mean,
my brother's amazing cooking, so you know, I don't have
that much fish, but that's maybe once a week now
(23:40):
I have fish tacos or some kind of grilled fish
with veggies and brown rice or you know. And I'm
I'm actually not drinking alcohol during the week. How you
do that? I know that was that it just became
I felt like, you know, we have to kind of
(24:01):
try to pretend that we're living in some type of
normalcy and we didn't drink, you know, during the week
in the city if we weren't you know, going out socializing,
and it just feels good to kind of have, you know,
be more focused and less foggy. I mean, of course,
at night when it's cozy and sitting by the fire something,
(24:22):
you on a glass of red wine. But I'm trying
not to um. And what about supplements. I'm obsessed with supplements.
I feel like they're I've really I'm super into my supplements.
And I work with this doctor in l a doctor
Dominic Red and she specializes in women's health and hormones
(24:43):
and preventative aging, and so I will do anything she
tells me. Very cool, brilliant. And finally, what are some
of the products you cannot live without? Well? Uh, of
products that cannot live without? I mean from my line.
(25:06):
I love our Vital Skin foundation. You know, I have
rose Sha. I love my Beauty butter Bronzer. The brushes
are as you know, the the quality, They're beautiful, they're sustainable,
and they're the qualities really really they're Um. I love
the mascara. I don't know, I love. It's kind of
(25:27):
like an edit for me. So I use all of it. Um,
and then what products I need? Purple shampoo? My hair
gets red otherwise. I like Rahua they make really nice,
clean purple shampoo and conditioner. Um. What other products can
(25:47):
I not live without? I really love this body Bomb
by Map and Stokes. It feels super hydrating and just
great on your skin. Well, everyone's gonna have to tune
into your Instagram in your Insta stories, because you are
really good at sharing some of the of your favorite things.
I'm really proud of you. I just have to say
(26:07):
I'm really proud of you. I UM, I love your brand,
I love what you stand for, and UM, you know,
I think people out there are loving what they're buying.
And keep up the good work. Thank you, Bobby. For
more podcasts from I Heart Radio, visit the I Heart
Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to your
(26:30):
favorite shows.
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