February 14, 2023 • 40 mins
This Valentine’s Day we’re taking a look at how political polarization impacts online dating and relationships. Host Roy Wood Jr. sits down with journalist and co-host of The Man Enough podcast, Liz Plank, and chief science advisor for Match.com, Dr. Helen Fisher, to chat about when to bring up politics in dating, how the fall of Roe v. Wade changed people’s dating habits, and how someone in an inter-political relationship can make it work. They even offer their own advice for those looking for love this Valentine’s Day!
Watch the original segment: https://www.cc.com/video/1dwd40/the-daily-show-with-jon-stewart-inter-political-dating
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:07):
Welcome to Beyond the Scenes, the podcast that goes deeper
into topics and segments that originally aired on The Daily Show.
This is what you gotta think of this podcast. This
podcast is basically a box of chocolates. Right. You don't
know what you're going get, but we got it all, baby.
We got the chocolate caramel, we got the buttercream, we
got the almonds, we got that we're when with the sprinkles.
We even got that coconut when that nobody likes Nobody
(00:29):
likes coconut. I'm talking to you all, enjoy. That's what
this podcast is. Roy Wood Jr. Speaking of chocolates. Happy
Valentine's Day, And we thought for Valentine's Day it would
be a good opportunity to talk about love in the
time of politics and whether those who date across the
aisle could ever walk down the aisle to talk a
(00:52):
little bit more about this topic. I'm joined by journalists
and co host of The Man Enough Podcasts and author
of the book For the Love of Men, Liz Plank. Liz,
welcome to be on the scenes. Thank you for having me,
what an honor. Well, thank you so much. I'm sorry
if my candy rent and I didn't mean to scare anybody.
I agree. I'm glad someone's talking about it has no
(01:15):
place in chocolate. It just doesn't. Also joining us for
this wonderful conversation it is anthropologist, Senior Research Fellow at
the Kinseie Institute and Chief Science Advisor for Match dot Com,
Dr Helen Fisher. Dr Helen, welcome to be on the scenes. Roy,
I have delighted to be with you. Thank you. Do
you like coconut and your chocolate? Let's just start with
(01:37):
the real issues here. I was going to start out,
I can do it, but it's not my favorite. I
also like the white chocolate. Do you like the white chocolate? Oh? Absolutely,
absolutely have too much of it. It's intense. Yeah, I
can do them all. I can do a whole too bad. Now,
Dr Fisher, I want to start with you. How has
(01:58):
politics and packed our dating culture and amongst daters? What
are you seeing you know in your research? Now? Well,
of course you know I've seen a lot only because
I've been doing this study with Match dot Com for
like twelve years. So every year we collected on five
thousand singles, so I now have date on sixty thousand singles.
We do not pull the match members. This is a
(02:19):
national representative sample of singles based on the U S Census,
So we've been asking about politics every other year for
the whole twelve years. And as it turns out, you know,
in two thousand and fifteen, seventy eight percent of singles
would date somebody across the aisle. Two thousand seventeen, it
reduced to sev By two thousand and nineteen, only about
(02:41):
fifty would go out with somebody on the other side
of the aisle. And they basically say, now they're moving
away from the center. UM, they care more about politics
and they want somebody to share their views with. Seventy
say they want to share their views with their partner.
In spite of that right percent today our last study
(03:04):
was in two thousand twenty two, just a few months ago,
um had actually gone out with somebody, UH with very
different political views. Percent actually believe you can fall in
love with somebody who has very different political views. And
one third of singles have actually fallen in love with
somebody from across the aisle. So Cupid beats politics. I think.
(03:30):
I think what's interesting about that is that sometimes you
don't know when you're dating somebody that's across the aisle
that's exactly Zig, and then you get together and then
the next thing you know, you've had four kids and
find out that it was like no, I thought we
were thinking together, Like no, I voted ZAG in the
last election. Well, you know, I asked, I asked singles
(03:53):
about that very thing. When do you want to know?
And today I want to know before the first date,
But ninety wants to know before it gets serious. Yeah,
because it's a real part of a partnership, and if
it's the problems there, there's going to be problems that'll
stick around. Yeah. I think it's It's interesting though, because
so many things come down to I believe voting to
(04:16):
be something where you're either voting for yourself or you're
voting for the public, and it's a matter of your
interests supersede the interests of the union in the sense
of like let's just say public school versus private school,
and you know, things of those matters and a lot
of these things that we thought were issues for us
don't become issues until you have a real relationship and
(04:40):
you start dealing with money problems and then okay, yeah,
let's have a real discussion about healthcare and housing and
where to live and what's the best method of transportation. Liz,
you were in the piece that we did on this
and you had said that you would never date a Republican.
Now is what the good doctor saying? True? And we
(05:03):
set you on a date with one anyway, and just
talk to us a little bit. What was that experience like,
going on a date with the Republican? It's just the
segment that you were a part of. How have your
views on dating evolved? Yeah? Only for the Daily Show.
Would I've gone on a date with on a fine
date with a Republican? Um back then, which I think
was we set up two of our panelists, one Democrat
(05:28):
and one Republican on a date. I grew up in California,
tell us about fifteen and then moved to Arizona. Cool.
How long have you been in New York? I've been
here two and a half years now. How about you,
I've been in New York for two years. Out it
was a catastrophe. This could have be. They were conversing
like regular people. I really like this place. The atmosphere
is really nice. Yeah, I do like the atmosphere atmosphere. Atmosphere. Hey,
(05:52):
do you know how many particles of c O two
were released into the atmosphere in two thousand fourteen? Tell
them about it, right, You're missing so many oportunities here.
So this was um, you know, pre pre Trump, and
let's be honest. I think Trump made politics more mainstream,
made them more extreme, and so it became harder not
to discuss politics, and it became harder not to have
(06:15):
an opinion, um, and so I in many ways, I
think it got worse um in the few years since
I've done that segment. And I would say, since the pandemic,
I feel like politics matters a little bit less. And
I actually think that it's because we're more polarized because
now like democrats also hate democrats, and republicans also hate republicans.
(06:39):
Like we all are a little bit annoyed, um with
the way that government is functioning. We all feel like
it should be uh, you know, a lot more productive,
that things should be working better. I think people are
are seeking to have conversations that change their minds. Like
I I feel like a few years ago I was
afraid to have those conversation Asians and UM, I think
(07:02):
now I'm I'm actually interested in in in talking to
someone who has different information than me, who has different
information from you know, the bubble that I live in.
Um but but that's just me um. But apparently it's
reflected in the data as well. But the question also becomes,
where the here did they get that information from? Because
you've got different information? But where the hell do you
be scrolling through the internet. I honestly feel like your
(07:24):
search history should be the first thing you're sitting to
somebody before going on the first day a good one.
Let's flip the script. Has anybody ever just canceled the
date on you? Like? You know what? I don't let
you be talking a little too much of that feminism.
I'm thinking, I saw I saw you at the Women's
march in let me unmatch from your ass? Has anything
like that ever happened on your side? And how did
(07:47):
that I feel? How did that feel? Yeah? Well that's
a great question. It did happen to me? Um and
and this guy? So I met this guy last summer.
Um someone introduced us and I was like, oh, I
feel like I I've met you before and was like, yeah,
we matched on you know this dating app. But when
I saw the title of your book, I unmatched you,
and uh, you know, because I reade about masculinity, I
(08:09):
read a lot about women's rights and gender. And my response,
um was to say, oh, well, I'm glad you unmatched
me because you're you have you don't have thick skin
enough to date me, like like basically like you did
both of us a favor by unmatching. But obviously I
was annoyed. Um And and I thought about why, why
why I was annoyed right, um, And part of it
(08:30):
is is, yeah, realizing like, wow, we're kind of living
in different times. Um And And this happened two years
ago again when I think a lot of men were
afraid of the me Too movement and some men thought
that this had gone too far. And and again I
think that just compliment your luscious body and exactly exactly
(08:52):
but in a way again for me, it just saves
time and it and it kind of weeds them out.
But yes, it does happen, and I feel like it.
You know, it happens to a lot of women. And
that's why maybe a lot more people are putting their
you know, political affiliation either in their photos. You know,
they're kind of like waving up the flag or putting
their pronouns um in their bio, stuff like that to
(09:12):
just kind of signal where they stand. I just want
to respond a little bit because you know, she said, now, um,
she wants to listen more to the other side. That's
exactly what's happening of singles today, say they want it's
a deal breaker if a possible partner can't be open
minded about key issues. And I really do think I
think that list is correct, that we are swinging away
(09:32):
from the hardliners that both sides have. You know, I
mean Democrats have problems with Democrats, Republicans have problems with Republicans, etcetera.
And and singles, which is one third of the population
in America, Uh, just about Uh do want honest, open,
real discussion. But they still feel they can fall in
love with somebody from the other side, and in fact
(09:54):
I did. Okay, well, then let's talk about that. Then
for a second. When do you and your partner meet
the fissure? Well, he worked with the New York Times
for twenty one years, so he's been interviewing me for forever.
But frankly, I you know, I would never put the
make on a journalist, so it was just you know,
it was just a friendship. And then eight years ago, uh,
(10:15):
we were both invited out to a place in Montana
over the over the summer, and they invited journalists and
academics and in the woods and and and I was
charmed by him, but I wasn't going to put the
moves on him. But anyway, he even told me, he said,
I'm not going ever going out with another woman. He
was going through a horrible divorce, and I figured he
was talked telling me something. So I never put the
(10:37):
moves on him until one night and uh, we were
sitting down in um in Um Rebecca where we were
going to walk the high line and play game of pool.
This was a year after we started to go out now.
And then he'd always give me a hug. But anyway,
the bottom line and that would be that. So I
don't know what got into me, but I pulled the
cocktail napkin out from under my drink when we were
(10:58):
having the JUNI said, why don't we just write down
on our cocktail napkin what we win if we win
at pool. I didn't know what he wrote, and then
I wrote a real kiss. I was fed up with
this hug stuff, and I pulled out he is so
he creased me at pool creams me, I mean creams me.
(11:18):
And I pulled out his and I opened hes and
it says sex and clarity, And I said, I said,
I got the sex part, But what do you have
in mind with clarity? But anyway, the bottom line is
one thing led to another, and then I'm married a mandat.
Sure enough, he's a He's not a total Republican. He
is a libertarian. And just likely said, I've learned a lot.
(11:43):
I will still vote the way I always do, but
I learned so much about why some of these people
are staying what they're saying. I looked at Fox News
for the first time in my life. I can't look
at all of it, but I can certainly look at something.
And I am better educated by knowing some important things
about both. So if on that day when you all
went to play pool, and on his napkin, what do
(12:04):
you want if we win pool? And he wrote down
privatized healthcare? How do y'all how do y'all make it work?
Because my point is that you all met at the
time we're on the back side. If we're going eight
years ago, we're still second term. It's Obama's victory lap,
(12:25):
and we're on the back side of George Bush no
longer being a war criminal. He's given a shall Obama candies.
So you know, at this point Republicans aren't as wild
as we think they were going to be as the
climate in the country changed over these eight years. How
can people keep it respectful with their partner when it
(12:48):
comes to political issues, when you're in an inter political
marriage or in a political relationship in general, Like what
are your tools? How do y'all make it work when
y'all both watching Fox News and you go and he goes, right,
I don't go. I don't do it, you know. I
I was Worth Grader Wader Ginsburg. You know, sometimes it's
(13:09):
good to be a little deaf, you know, so that
you don't listen to it. But I even asked five
thousand people what they do about political civility and something
like say, I try to understand the other person's perspective,
and some people will just disagree politely another forty pent
And what's interesting to me is about men will lie
(13:29):
about their views and six percent of women will lie.
Now this isn't the beginning of a partnership. They'll lie
because of course they're looking for life's greatest price, which
is a mating partner. So people are going to just
put their best foot forward and pretend whatever um. But
the bottom line is little's correct. I mean, today people
are putting it on their profile. They want to know
(13:50):
who the other person is. They don't want to go
in with these kind of scars or problems. And in
my case, I mean, all I can say is that
he's wonderful at kissing and hugging, he's hilariously funny, he's
educated in many more ways, and there's other parts to
a human being. I mean, politics is only one. Liz,
how have you handle situations where you begin to see
(14:13):
a divide in political views with someone that you've dated?
And is that something that people should ignore and just
go us the third date? Who cares if they haven't
been vaccinated yet? I will circle back to that later.
Or is that something that you tend to dig in
on and is that the right thing to start keying
(14:34):
in on the moment you catch a whiff of that
early on in the courtship. I mean, I think we're
in kind of a red flag culture right now, where
there's a lot of people out there who are telling
us all of the red flags to look out for.
And UM, and again this sort of culture of I'm
going to get away from anything that I don't agree with,
(14:55):
that I don't like, or that doesn't make me feel good.
And I've definitely been guilty of that. And I had
to kind of examine my my, my, the way that
I was shutting people out right based on my own
interpretation of what their opinion means to them. Right, so
you can know how someone votes, right, and that's a behavior,
and if I don't ask more questions, I'm going to
(15:17):
assign the intentions that I think um goes into that
behavior instead of using that as a way to get
to know the person better. And so if they vote
a certain way, And again I'm not saying this on
like fundamental issues, right, I think the match dot com
data shows that like two thirds of single women, abortion
is a non negotiable right in a world where like
this is about our bodily autonomy, I think that's okay too.
(15:40):
Like I will not argue about that with someone on
a date. I'll argue about some you know, on on
Fox News about that. UM, but I won't do it
in like my private intimate time on my time off,
you know. But but still, if someone you know, UM
signals a certain opinion about about it and an issue
and they have a different perspective, ask questions, right, find
(16:01):
out why, find out more about their values, find out
more about their personal experience. UM. What that's what you
should be doing on on a date, right is is
not um sort of looking for what's wrong with the person,
but just connecting with them and seeing how you feel
when you connect with them. And you might connect with
them and learn something to Dr Fisher's point, um, learn
(16:21):
something about yourself or learn something about UM this perspective
that you you still don't agree with, but now you
understand where it's coming from. UM. And and yeah, you
might want to pursue a relationship with this person if
you feel good when you're around them, or you might not. UM.
So Yeah, there's a lot of people I've been on
dates with that I've remained friends with because yeah, we
do fundamentally disagree about certain things and there's a value
(16:42):
difference there. Um. But but but it's not about really
their political affiliation as much as those values and what's
behind that. And at the same time, you know there
are a lot of progressive men out there who have
grand ideas about progressive politics who don't necessarily behave that
way behind closed are in their relationships with women. And
I know a lot of relationships that have fallen apart
(17:04):
because of that. That betrayal can feel worse for for
some women, UM and so and and and again there's
maybe someone who's more conservative UM on the outside, who
will be more altruistic or more egalitarian in the way
that they approach the relationship. And so I would just
want people to be open minded and and to be curious, right,
instead of using it as a reason to like shut down. Okay,
(17:26):
So what you're saying is that I need to start
going to somebody's Trump and Ron de Santis rallies and
trying to holier some girls. That's what I'm gonna do.
I don't would not recommend that, but if you want
to go and try it, I will watch. After the break,
I'm wanna talk a little bit more with your ladies
about what deems a deal breaker when it comes to
(17:47):
dating in politics. I want to talk about these these
dating maps that are getting more and more deeper into
political ideologies, and how do you raise kids when both
of you don't think the same way about stuff? It's
beyond the scenes. Well we'll sort this out. I'm gonna
tell you about time I dated a gun owner story
after the break Oh boy, before we talk a little
(18:10):
bit about these dating apps. You said something before the
break list that I want to circle back to, and
how sometimes you have to immerse yourself in someone else's
culture or ask questions and then you learn about it,
and sometimes you'll be shocked what you find out about yourself.
Like I don't own a gun. I want a gun.
I just never gotten around to getting the gun because
(18:32):
I always end up in a relationship with a woman
who don't want a gun in the house. I just
never bought the gun. And then I ended up in
a relationship one time with a woman who owned a gun.
And here's the funny thing. I didn't feel safe in
the house. I wouldn't and I can't explain it, but
(18:53):
just in my head, it was this kind of thing,
the gun in this house, gun and this house. Now,
if i'd have met her own gun owners dot Com,
then I could have sorted that right out. And it
wasn't It wasn't a deal breaker, but it definitely was
an adjustment, you know, in terms of dating, if I'm
(19:16):
being honest. And she was also a concealed carry person
as well. But that's a whole, whole, separate set of beans.
But when we talk about the dating apps, you know,
like like there's a conservative dating app called the Right
Stuff calling all conservatives. A new dating app called the
Right Stuff just might give you a chance to meet
your true match. It was funded by Peter Tale but
(19:39):
founded by former officials in the Trump administration who had
a hard time finding like minded people to date on
the existing dating apps that often made them feel and welcome.
But yeah, some of my friends would try to use
the apps theta the minute they became they became known
that they were working for Trump, the data immediately ended.
That happened several time, so my friends really yeah, girls
(20:02):
will just get up and leave or you know, abrupt
when we try to on the date. Do you think
dating maps that are rooted in political ideologies are helpful
in people finding like minded partners or does it drive
everybody to retreat into their own little bubbles where you
can't ask questions? And learn and inform yourself about the
(20:23):
other side like Liz did. And well, first of all,
you know, it's amazing how people think that this is new,
that these are these are sort of channels that are
going to keep you in the bubble. But as an anthropologist,
I mean for millions of years, you know, you met
that cute boy at the water hole, he's going to think,
like you know, he's going to do the same kind
of thing every day that you do. I mean, mankind
(20:43):
has always been, you know, in in certain channels. I mean,
how about on on a farming community, and you're still
gonna run at everybody at the same church and the
same grocery store, and people are gonna hold the same value.
So the bottom line is these don't threat me at all.
I think they help people find people that are sort
of like them. And what's nice about today is we've
(21:06):
got a huge number of alternatives. They don't have to
go to the right stuff. They can go to other
places and learn other things that I don't find it threatening.
I know that a lot of people it's called positive
assortative mating, and that's the anthropological term about the fact
that we are inclined um well, we're inclined to fall
we we tend to fall in love with somebody from
the same socio economic and and and ethnic background, same
(21:30):
degree of intelligence and good looks and education. We tend
to fall in love with somebody with the same values
and social and reproductive goals, economic goals, childhood always plays
a role. But the bottom line is we gravitate to
people like ourselves, and what these dating sizes are simply
doing is enabling you to find more people like yourself.
What's beautiful, as I said about today, is that we
(21:51):
can we can step out the way Liz is doing
and the way I certainly did, and learn other ways.
Whereas I think through most of humanity you really couldn't
step out. I mean, you know, you're stuck with sort
of your kind. And I think that right now it's
a beautiful time and human evolution where we're seeing we're
more people who don't share our views. We can reach
in and and learn something from them and then learn
(22:14):
more about ourselves. Just the way they said, Liz, how
do you feel about that? Like, do you think that
these dating maps are helpful? Like if there was a
dating website called Yes Abortions got relationships just spitball in
the U r L. I don't know if that's you
should buy that and we should start that it Not
(22:40):
only would I go to it, but it says a
lot more about the person than abortion. It says a
lot of other things that are a sort of coalesceent
to a general framework. Yeah, and I you know, once
a lot of protests, uh, you know this year. I
guess last year, you know, with Row v. Wade being overturned,
and I was like, this might be a good spot.
There's some a lot of guys here, um, which I
(23:00):
think is uh encouraging for the movement and also encouraging
for Yeah, relationships between men and women, you know, like
these are fundamental Um. Again, it can be fundamental deal breakers.
And and yeah, I'm not super opposed to any way
that helps people connect these days. I think it's I
(23:21):
think dating has become so hard, and that's where I
would love. I mean, Dr Fisher knows about it because
she's looking at the data, and I just think it's
it's very hard to be in relationship. I think the
pandemic we've still not recovered fully. Um. And and so
anything that brings people together, you know, whether it's like
a dating app for people who are on the right,
(23:42):
a dating app for farmers, a dating app for people
who right who love abortion. I'm all for it. I
think it's positive. I also think that we can't underestimate
the power of intimate relationships to revolutionize the world. Right.
Our minds are changed by people that we like. It's
very rare that a stranger, you know, yelling at you,
(24:03):
or even a stranger talking to you um or or
reading a book by a person that you don't even like, right,
I mean, first of all, that's not going to happen,
and second of all that that's really going to make
you think differently. But if your cousin says something to you,
if someone that you really like, um, you know, presents
a different perspective, or again, an author, I mean, there
are many authors that I read that I don't agree
with everything, but because I like them, and because I
(24:26):
have this weird you know, so para social relationship with them, um,
I care about what they say and I trust what
they say, and so I I do think that that
these intimate relationships can really be transformative. Um and and
and as much as you know should be also we
should have sympathy for singles, and you know, if they
want to go to their bubble where they feel comfortable,
(24:46):
that's also fine. Well, I just want to say something
about these dating sites that people really don't really get.
They are not dating sites. They are introducing sites. That's
all they do is introduced you. That's all they do.
And once you get out on that first date or
or a video chat, you smile the way always did,
you laughed the way always did you parade the way
(25:08):
always did you assess the way you always did. There's
not the dating site is not going to change who
you are. It's just where you're gonna find people and
then begin to assess them. And the problem with these
introducing sites is there's nothing really wrong with them. The
problem is there's so new that people don't know how
to use them, and they binge and the human brain
(25:28):
cannot cope with about more than about nine options. You know.
It's called cognitive overload or the paradox of choice, and
and people choose nobody. Uh. And the other thing is,
you know, because you know so little about somebody, you
overweight what you know and you suddenly think he likes cats,
I like dogs. It doesn't work. So the bottom line
(25:50):
is one of the things that Roy you were asking
about in the beginning is where we're headed. Uh. In
this annual study, one of the questions that I ask
is have you ever um fall in love with somebody
who you initially did not find attractive? And in fact
this year said yes. Singles are giving people a chance.
(26:10):
It's more than all of the last twelve years. Singles
are getting on these sites the beginning. I hope to
learn how to use them, and they're giving people a chance,
and I think this is a great step forward. Ugly
people who chance, not just more specific. I don't know
if that's the anthropological term, but in a ray, we'll
(26:31):
just say variety would be nice. They're given a variety
of faces and wanted to um. When we talk about
like deal breakers though, should dating be more about the
issues or the party affiliation when we come when it
comes time to talking about how you prioritize looking for
a lifelong partner, Because you know, I've also and my
(26:55):
single them. As of late, I found myself on dates
with women who are not vaccinated by choice, and I
had never been something I thought about until it was
actually sad and I was like, I don't agree with that,
but all right, let's see where a second date goes.
I guess. So it wasn't like you should you dat
(27:15):
a long party lines or along issue lines like how
would Roe v. Wade change? How did that change dating?
For instance? That changed it a lot. Just as Lizard said,
I mean, we did to study on this this past
year obviously, and two out of three women will not
date somebody with opposing views on abortion. And you know,
when I was talking with my colleagues at Match and
(27:36):
Justin Garcia, who I work with to analyze the data,
you know, people thought, well, you know, people are coming
much more flexible about politics, but they're not flexible about abortion.
And again, you know, once again as an anthropologist, I
get it. You know, politics comes and goes. I mean
Trump will come and Trump will go, Biden will come
and Biden will go. They will come and go. But
(27:58):
having a baby does not come and go. You know,
if you're not ready to have a child, or you
are ready to you know, whatever it is, you're going
to have that child for the rest of your life.
It doesn't come and go and then not. I'm not
at all surprised that this is the top of the
list right now, because this is a Darwinian issue. This
is not a social issue. So then to that point,
(28:20):
how are people with opposing views raising the kids? How
do you do that? Like in an inner political home?
Like I know that the whole child vaccination, you got
to be vaccinated to go back to this school divided.
And I'm talking from personal conversations I've had in group
chats with other married friends where it was a serious
issue because they didn't realize they were in a vaccin
(28:41):
anti vac excuse me, an inter vaccination home. By the way,
the antiological Yeah, that's a good one. I like it.
How are the opposing political views like influencing child rearing? Now, well,
this is something I've not been able to tell to anybody,
and thanks for asking. In this last with this of
(29:01):
Republicans do not want their children to marry somebody on
the other side of the aisle, and thirty three Democrats
do not want their children to marry somebody from the
other side of the aisle. So that's something they somehow
feel that they can whether the differences between themselves and
their partner. But it when comes to children having children
(29:23):
and sort of passing on their values to next generations
with their DNA. They feel very strongly about it. I'm
not surprised that the factors and the anti factors or
have his struggles. Liz, what have you seen, you know,
just in your own experiences with you know, either dating
people with children or your friend who have children who
are struggling now, especially when we start talking about preteen
(29:44):
children that are a lot more politically aware themselves. I
dated someone with kids and and this was you know,
it wasn't even a political issue. But but kids bring
in all kinds of different things, right for for a couple,
and especially when you're mixing two uh you know, to
people who have kids and now have new partners, UM,
that's that that can come with challenges. My perspective is
(30:06):
as a single person who doesn't have kids. UM. But
certain things UM are not a political issue. They're a
safety issue, right. Vaccination, although it's become a political issue,
which is you know, boggles the mind. And I don't
even know if we could have predicted UM before the
what I don't think we could have predicted the pandemic,
But also I don't think we could have predicted that
(30:29):
something like that that that is a health issue becomes
a political issue. And and it's the same thing with
the gun and that woman you know you are dating
who has a gun? Is that really about affiliation or
is about your safety? And and and your feeling is
of safety of physical safety in that relationship. And and
similar with abortion. I mean, if I'm going to risk
(30:50):
going to jail um to have sex with you, like
like if you're uh trying to keep that happening, and
and like are for that, I'm not gonna have sex
with you. Um. Yeah, that's like the that's the bar,
the bars in hell. But that's the bar. You know.
I'm not gonna go below that. And I feel okay
about that. Right after the break Um, hopefully we can
(31:13):
leave with some hope here that doctor and Madam Liz
and we can figure out ways that people can live
in a home with a unvaccinated gun on her while
raising a multi gender child in this new universe in
which we're living in. This is beyond the scenes. We'll
be right back beyond the scenes. We are around and
third and hit it for home. We have been talking
(31:34):
about inter political dating. I didn't even know that was
the official term, just I called it dating that girl
that watched a little too much Fox News, but she
cooked good, So I'll make new it. That's what I
call it. Uh, let's let's I'll start with you first.
What do you think the future of dating looks like?
(31:56):
Do you think it gets more technical? Do you think
people will get back to just dating all feeling instead
of letting site aggregate so many different details about us.
I think people are really hungry for human connection right
after Again, I talk about the pandemic not because I
want to bum people out, but because I want people
to be compassionate with themselves that we went through something
(32:20):
really traumatic and to be like, everything's fine now. It
is not. You know, it can be helpful in the
short term, but it can make you kind of blame
yourself for for certain consequences of that. And so what
I've been noticing is is more men kind of honestly
hitting on me, which I am so into. Um Men
coming up to me at coffee shops or in the streets,
(32:42):
striking a conversation right like in a respectful way. Um
I'm not no, yeah, not yelling from the other side
of the street to impress your male friends, but actually
seeking to connect. Um. With with with a person I
think is so wonderful. And I have noticed that people
have been more actively doing that because a lot of people.
As much as dating apps have helped us in tremendous
(33:04):
ways there, there they also can be uh, you know,
not a fun experience. UM for all of the reasons
that Dr Fisher are laid out where where people might
not be using them in the best way. So I
think people are hungry for human connection. I also think
we need to date more compassionately. We need to be
more compassionate with ourselves, We need to be more compassionate
(33:24):
with the other person. UM, and we have to give
ourselves more time. I did this podcast called Race to
five with Monica Penman and Dark Shepherd where I froze
my eggs with Monica and we documented the whole thing.
And part of doing that was talking about the fact
that a lot more women are freezing their eggs. It's
something that's not accessible to all women and should be
(33:46):
UM And I'm very lucky to be one of those women.
But but more women are delaying motherhood, are delaying these
big decisions about who they want to have kids with,
who they want to marry. UM. And I think that
buying time is great. I think that we should all
take a little bit more our time to get to
know ourselves, to get to know someone else, and to
kind of take the pressure off. That's what I see
(34:08):
for us. That's why I'm approaching dating. Uh. And it's
been a lot more it's been a lot better for
me since I've I've done that. Doctor, What do you
see the future of dating looking like based on the data? Yeah? No,
I am extremely optimistic actually, um. And what Liz is
actually talking about is something I've written quite a bit
about called slow love. And what we're doing isn't you
(34:31):
know fifty years ago people married in their very early twenties.
Now they're married and they're very late twenties or even
early thirties. So there's this long period of pre commitment
where you getting into yourself, you're trying people out, you're
getting rid of what you don't want, you know, like
the girl with the gun in the house, uh and
uh and going on to something. I didn't get rid
of her, she got rid of me, But I did
(34:56):
you suffer or sort of glad you're not a gun
on me? And nothing? You're too busy, you're you're too,
she said. I think you're getting into your me period
of your life right now. I don't know what that good. Well, well, anyway,
I am extremely optimistic. And by the way, nobody roy
(35:16):
gets out of life. We all get dumped, there's no
question about that. But anyway, the bottom line is, you know,
divorce is very low right now. It's been actually very
low for the last fifty years. It's it's the nine
seventies was when it was was higher. And we're dating
on the internet, and the data show that if you
met somebody on the internet rather than off then any
(35:36):
one of these sites anywhere, you're less likely to divorce.
And the longer you court before marriage, the more likely
you are to remain together. And those two huge worldwide
trends of dating on the internet, meeting people on the
internet and the slow love meeting you know, it's spending
a long time figuring out who you are are, both
(35:58):
very matter of fact. If you court somebody for about
three or more years, you're less likely to divorce. So
it's slow love. It's happening all over the world. And
I think last but not least for me. I mean,
first of all, I studied the brain I mean, we've
put over a hundred people into a brain scanner. I
mean that we know the brain circuitry of romantic love.
It's a basic drive, comes out of the most primitive
(36:20):
parts of the brain. We will always love. Courtship will change,
but the feeling of desire to be with somebody will
never change. I mean, it's primordial, it's adaptable, and it's eternal.
And I do think that with more of us internet dating,
where you get a wide variety of people, you've got
to handle it properly, and courting for a long period
(36:41):
of time is going to send us to wars. Actually
a few decades of relative family stability. I'll leave you,
ladies with one last question to take us home. What
words of encouragement do you have for our viewers who
are looking for love but I don't want to do
(37:02):
it digitally? Is there any hope for him? Doctor? How
do I meet people the old fashioned New York times
at a pool hall right on the napkin? Wait? How
do we do it? Is there still hopeful that? How
do they navigate the science? They got to get out
there anyway you get out there. Okay, some people do
it on the internet in their pajamas. Some people want
(37:23):
to get all dude it up and stand in a bar.
Whatever works. What just get out there. And by the way,
if I had to sum up, what is cat nip
to the opposite sex? It's people who are happy. Just
be happy, smile, be energetic, be interested in who other
people are. Is cat nip to the opposite sex? And Liz,
what hope would you give? Like? Because you've been approached
(37:43):
in the real world, welcome through. I'm a survivor. Yes,
um no, I've been on dates. I've been on successful
dates with men who have come up to me at
a coffee shop. Go coffee shops? Are these third places? Right? Um?
The first place is your home, second place where you work,
and these third places the gym. And again I'm not
saying go harass women while they're working out, but there
(38:03):
are ways of approaching strangers and smiling to uh Dr
Fisher's point, just smiling, looking up from your phone, put
your phone in your pocket. Okay. There are all kinds
of amazing people that you know you're not seeing if
you're if you're not looking up. Um, and so I
have two piece of advice. One of them, think about
who your future partner is right, Like on a Saturday,
(38:26):
where would they be go there? Would they be at
the gym? Go to the gym? Would they be at
a museum, Go to a museum. Would they be at
a panel about intergalactic universes? Like? Go to that panel? Uh.
And the second thing is every day give a compliment
to anybody of any gender. And this is not as
again a way of you know, not even as an
(38:48):
attempt to seduce people or to really make a lasting connection,
but it just kind of makes you more comfortable talking
and approaching someone that you don't know. Just practice the art, right,
it used to be much more normal talking to strangers. Um,
practice the art in your everyday life in small ways
and then yeah, I don't make you more likely to
(39:08):
end up striking those conversations with people that you do
find attractive and you are a little bit more nervous
to go up to. You'll have done it before. And
men like it, by the way, they didn't like it
women who try to pick them up. Yeah, yes, everyone
loves a compliment. Let me think, yeah, I do. It
doesn't happen often. When it happened, we usually have a
date something like yeah, something like nine of men are
(39:30):
perfectly happy if a woman moves in for the first kiss,
if a woman asked for her you know, for your
telephone number. But women don't do it. But the young
are beginning to, Yeah, we'll go with your potential mate
is and with that live in Helen, I beat you,
but do when I'm gonnahit the home depot because I
hope she's on the paint. Now that paint in his house.
(39:52):
That's all that, don't we all know what we're looking
for someone. I'm gonna just stand by the paint and
we're like, hello, baby, would you let you come and
help me while we eat pizza? Liz, Helen, thank you
so much. That's all the time we have for today.
But I appreciate you both for going beyond the scenes
with me. Thank you, thank you, Thank you all. Listen
(40:17):
to The Daily Show Beyond the Scenes on Apple podcast,
the I Heart Radio app, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Welcome to Beyond the Scenes, the podcast that goes deeper
into topics and segments that originally aired on The Daily Show.
This is what you gotta think of this podcast. This
podcast is basically a box of chocolates. Right. You don't
know what you're going get, but we got it all, baby.
We got the chocolate caramel, we got the buttercream, we
got the almonds, we got that we're when with the sprinkles.
We even got that coconut when that nobody likes Nobody
(00:29):
likes coconut. I'm talking to you all, enjoy. That's what
this podcast is. Roy Wood Jr. Speaking of chocolates. Happy
Valentine's Day, And we thought for Valentine's Day it would
be a good opportunity to talk about love in the
time of politics and whether those who date across the
aisle could ever walk down the aisle to talk a
(00:52):
little bit more about this topic. I'm joined by journalists
and co host of The Man Enough Podcasts and author
of the book For the Love of Men, Liz Plank. Liz,
welcome to be on the scenes. Thank you for having me,
what an honor. Well, thank you so much. I'm sorry
if my candy rent and I didn't mean to scare anybody.
I agree. I'm glad someone's talking about it has no
(01:15):
place in chocolate. It just doesn't. Also joining us for
this wonderful conversation it is anthropologist, Senior Research Fellow at
the Kinseie Institute and Chief Science Advisor for Match dot Com,
Dr Helen Fisher. Dr Helen, welcome to be on the scenes. Roy,
I have delighted to be with you. Thank you. Do
you like coconut and your chocolate? Let's just start with
(01:37):
the real issues here. I was going to start out,
I can do it, but it's not my favorite. I
also like the white chocolate. Do you like the white chocolate? Oh? Absolutely,
absolutely have too much of it. It's intense. Yeah, I
can do them all. I can do a whole too bad. Now,
Dr Fisher, I want to start with you. How has
(01:58):
politics and packed our dating culture and amongst daters? What
are you seeing you know in your research? Now? Well,
of course you know I've seen a lot only because
I've been doing this study with Match dot Com for
like twelve years. So every year we collected on five
thousand singles, so I now have date on sixty thousand singles.
We do not pull the match members. This is a
(02:19):
national representative sample of singles based on the U S Census,
So we've been asking about politics every other year for
the whole twelve years. And as it turns out, you know,
in two thousand and fifteen, seventy eight percent of singles
would date somebody across the aisle. Two thousand seventeen, it
reduced to sev By two thousand and nineteen, only about
(02:41):
fifty would go out with somebody on the other side
of the aisle. And they basically say, now they're moving
away from the center. UM, they care more about politics
and they want somebody to share their views with. Seventy
say they want to share their views with their partner.
In spite of that right percent today our last study
(03:04):
was in two thousand twenty two, just a few months ago,
um had actually gone out with somebody, UH with very
different political views. Percent actually believe you can fall in
love with somebody who has very different political views. And
one third of singles have actually fallen in love with
somebody from across the aisle. So Cupid beats politics. I think.
(03:30):
I think what's interesting about that is that sometimes you
don't know when you're dating somebody that's across the aisle
that's exactly Zig, and then you get together and then
the next thing you know, you've had four kids and
find out that it was like no, I thought we
were thinking together, Like no, I voted ZAG in the
last election. Well, you know, I asked, I asked singles
(03:53):
about that very thing. When do you want to know?
And today I want to know before the first date,
But ninety wants to know before it gets serious. Yeah,
because it's a real part of a partnership, and if
it's the problems there, there's going to be problems that'll
stick around. Yeah. I think it's It's interesting though, because
so many things come down to I believe voting to
(04:16):
be something where you're either voting for yourself or you're
voting for the public, and it's a matter of your
interests supersede the interests of the union in the sense
of like let's just say public school versus private school,
and you know, things of those matters and a lot
of these things that we thought were issues for us
don't become issues until you have a real relationship and
(04:40):
you start dealing with money problems and then okay, yeah,
let's have a real discussion about healthcare and housing and
where to live and what's the best method of transportation. Liz,
you were in the piece that we did on this
and you had said that you would never date a Republican.
Now is what the good doctor saying? True? And we
(05:03):
set you on a date with one anyway, and just
talk to us a little bit. What was that experience like,
going on a date with the Republican? It's just the
segment that you were a part of. How have your
views on dating evolved? Yeah? Only for the Daily Show.
Would I've gone on a date with on a fine
date with a Republican? Um back then, which I think
was we set up two of our panelists, one Democrat
(05:28):
and one Republican on a date. I grew up in California,
tell us about fifteen and then moved to Arizona. Cool.
How long have you been in New York? I've been
here two and a half years now. How about you,
I've been in New York for two years. Out it
was a catastrophe. This could have be. They were conversing
like regular people. I really like this place. The atmosphere
is really nice. Yeah, I do like the atmosphere atmosphere. Atmosphere. Hey,
(05:52):
do you know how many particles of c O two
were released into the atmosphere in two thousand fourteen? Tell
them about it, right, You're missing so many oportunities here.
So this was um, you know, pre pre Trump, and
let's be honest. I think Trump made politics more mainstream,
made them more extreme, and so it became harder not
to discuss politics, and it became harder not to have
(06:15):
an opinion, um, and so I in many ways, I
think it got worse um in the few years since
I've done that segment. And I would say, since the pandemic,
I feel like politics matters a little bit less. And
I actually think that it's because we're more polarized because
now like democrats also hate democrats, and republicans also hate republicans.
(06:39):
Like we all are a little bit annoyed, um with
the way that government is functioning. We all feel like
it should be uh, you know, a lot more productive,
that things should be working better. I think people are
are seeking to have conversations that change their minds. Like
I I feel like a few years ago I was
afraid to have those conversation Asians and UM, I think
(07:02):
now I'm I'm actually interested in in in talking to
someone who has different information than me, who has different
information from you know, the bubble that I live in.
Um but but that's just me um. But apparently it's
reflected in the data as well. But the question also becomes,
where the here did they get that information from? Because
you've got different information? But where the hell do you
be scrolling through the internet. I honestly feel like your
(07:24):
search history should be the first thing you're sitting to
somebody before going on the first day a good one.
Let's flip the script. Has anybody ever just canceled the
date on you? Like? You know what? I don't let
you be talking a little too much of that feminism.
I'm thinking, I saw I saw you at the Women's
march in let me unmatch from your ass? Has anything
like that ever happened on your side? And how did
(07:47):
that I feel? How did that feel? Yeah? Well that's
a great question. It did happen to me? Um and
and this guy? So I met this guy last summer.
Um someone introduced us and I was like, oh, I
feel like I I've met you before and was like, yeah,
we matched on you know this dating app. But when
I saw the title of your book, I unmatched you,
and uh, you know, because I reade about masculinity, I
(08:09):
read a lot about women's rights and gender. And my response,
um was to say, oh, well, I'm glad you unmatched
me because you're you have you don't have thick skin
enough to date me, like like basically like you did
both of us a favor by unmatching. But obviously I
was annoyed. Um And and I thought about why, why
why I was annoyed right, um, And part of it
(08:30):
is is, yeah, realizing like, wow, we're kind of living
in different times. Um And And this happened two years
ago again when I think a lot of men were
afraid of the me Too movement and some men thought
that this had gone too far. And and again I
think that just compliment your luscious body and exactly exactly
(08:52):
but in a way again for me, it just saves
time and it and it kind of weeds them out.
But yes, it does happen, and I feel like it.
You know, it happens to a lot of women. And
that's why maybe a lot more people are putting their
you know, political affiliation either in their photos. You know,
they're kind of like waving up the flag or putting
their pronouns um in their bio, stuff like that to
(09:12):
just kind of signal where they stand. I just want
to respond a little bit because you know, she said, now, um,
she wants to listen more to the other side. That's
exactly what's happening of singles today, say they want it's
a deal breaker if a possible partner can't be open
minded about key issues. And I really do think I
think that list is correct, that we are swinging away
(09:32):
from the hardliners that both sides have. You know, I
mean Democrats have problems with Democrats, Republicans have problems with Republicans, etcetera.
And and singles, which is one third of the population
in America, Uh, just about Uh do want honest, open,
real discussion. But they still feel they can fall in
love with somebody from the other side, and in fact
(09:54):
I did. Okay, well, then let's talk about that. Then
for a second. When do you and your partner meet
the fissure? Well, he worked with the New York Times
for twenty one years, so he's been interviewing me for forever.
But frankly, I you know, I would never put the
make on a journalist, so it was just you know,
it was just a friendship. And then eight years ago, uh,
(10:15):
we were both invited out to a place in Montana
over the over the summer, and they invited journalists and
academics and in the woods and and and I was
charmed by him, but I wasn't going to put the
moves on him. But anyway, he even told me, he said,
I'm not going ever going out with another woman. He
was going through a horrible divorce, and I figured he
was talked telling me something. So I never put the
(10:37):
moves on him until one night and uh, we were
sitting down in um in Um Rebecca where we were
going to walk the high line and play game of pool.
This was a year after we started to go out now.
And then he'd always give me a hug. But anyway,
the bottom line and that would be that. So I
don't know what got into me, but I pulled the
cocktail napkin out from under my drink when we were
(10:58):
having the JUNI said, why don't we just write down
on our cocktail napkin what we win if we win
at pool. I didn't know what he wrote, and then
I wrote a real kiss. I was fed up with
this hug stuff, and I pulled out he is so
he creased me at pool creams me, I mean creams me.
(11:18):
And I pulled out his and I opened hes and
it says sex and clarity, And I said, I said,
I got the sex part, But what do you have
in mind with clarity? But anyway, the bottom line is
one thing led to another, and then I'm married a mandat.
Sure enough, he's a He's not a total Republican. He
is a libertarian. And just likely said, I've learned a lot.
(11:43):
I will still vote the way I always do, but
I learned so much about why some of these people
are staying what they're saying. I looked at Fox News
for the first time in my life. I can't look
at all of it, but I can certainly look at something.
And I am better educated by knowing some important things
about both. So if on that day when you all
went to play pool, and on his napkin, what do
(12:04):
you want if we win pool? And he wrote down
privatized healthcare? How do y'all how do y'all make it work?
Because my point is that you all met at the
time we're on the back side. If we're going eight
years ago, we're still second term. It's Obama's victory lap,
(12:25):
and we're on the back side of George Bush no
longer being a war criminal. He's given a shall Obama candies.
So you know, at this point Republicans aren't as wild
as we think they were going to be as the
climate in the country changed over these eight years. How
can people keep it respectful with their partner when it
(12:48):
comes to political issues, when you're in an inter political
marriage or in a political relationship in general, Like what
are your tools? How do y'all make it work when
y'all both watching Fox News and you go and he goes, right,
I don't go. I don't do it, you know. I
I was Worth Grader Wader Ginsburg. You know, sometimes it's
(13:09):
good to be a little deaf, you know, so that
you don't listen to it. But I even asked five
thousand people what they do about political civility and something
like say, I try to understand the other person's perspective,
and some people will just disagree politely another forty pent
And what's interesting to me is about men will lie
(13:29):
about their views and six percent of women will lie.
Now this isn't the beginning of a partnership. They'll lie
because of course they're looking for life's greatest price, which
is a mating partner. So people are going to just
put their best foot forward and pretend whatever um. But
the bottom line is little's correct. I mean, today people
are putting it on their profile. They want to know
(13:50):
who the other person is. They don't want to go
in with these kind of scars or problems. And in
my case, I mean, all I can say is that
he's wonderful at kissing and hugging, he's hilariously funny, he's
educated in many more ways, and there's other parts to
a human being. I mean, politics is only one. Liz,
how have you handle situations where you begin to see
(14:13):
a divide in political views with someone that you've dated?
And is that something that people should ignore and just
go us the third date? Who cares if they haven't
been vaccinated yet? I will circle back to that later.
Or is that something that you tend to dig in
on and is that the right thing to start keying
(14:34):
in on the moment you catch a whiff of that
early on in the courtship. I mean, I think we're
in kind of a red flag culture right now, where
there's a lot of people out there who are telling
us all of the red flags to look out for.
And UM, and again this sort of culture of I'm
going to get away from anything that I don't agree with,
(14:55):
that I don't like, or that doesn't make me feel good.
And I've definitely been guilty of that. And I had
to kind of examine my my, my, the way that
I was shutting people out right based on my own
interpretation of what their opinion means to them. Right, so
you can know how someone votes, right, and that's a behavior,
and if I don't ask more questions, I'm going to
(15:17):
assign the intentions that I think um goes into that
behavior instead of using that as a way to get
to know the person better. And so if they vote
a certain way, And again I'm not saying this on
like fundamental issues, right, I think the match dot com
data shows that like two thirds of single women, abortion
is a non negotiable right in a world where like
this is about our bodily autonomy, I think that's okay too.
(15:40):
Like I will not argue about that with someone on
a date. I'll argue about some you know, on on
Fox News about that. UM, but I won't do it
in like my private intimate time on my time off,
you know. But but still, if someone you know, UM
signals a certain opinion about about it and an issue
and they have a different perspective, ask questions, right, find
(16:01):
out why, find out more about their values, find out
more about their personal experience. UM. What that's what you
should be doing on on a date, right is is
not um sort of looking for what's wrong with the person,
but just connecting with them and seeing how you feel
when you connect with them. And you might connect with
them and learn something to Dr Fisher's point, um, learn
(16:21):
something about yourself or learn something about UM this perspective
that you you still don't agree with, but now you
understand where it's coming from. UM. And and yeah, you
might want to pursue a relationship with this person if
you feel good when you're around them, or you might not. UM.
So Yeah, there's a lot of people I've been on
dates with that I've remained friends with because yeah, we
do fundamentally disagree about certain things and there's a value
(16:42):
difference there. Um. But but but it's not about really
their political affiliation as much as those values and what's
behind that. And at the same time, you know there
are a lot of progressive men out there who have
grand ideas about progressive politics who don't necessarily behave that
way behind closed are in their relationships with women. And
I know a lot of relationships that have fallen apart
(17:04):
because of that. That betrayal can feel worse for for
some women, UM and so and and and again there's
maybe someone who's more conservative UM on the outside, who
will be more altruistic or more egalitarian in the way
that they approach the relationship. And so I would just
want people to be open minded and and to be curious, right,
instead of using it as a reason to like shut down. Okay,
(17:26):
So what you're saying is that I need to start
going to somebody's Trump and Ron de Santis rallies and
trying to holier some girls. That's what I'm gonna do.
I don't would not recommend that, but if you want
to go and try it, I will watch. After the break,
I'm wanna talk a little bit more with your ladies
about what deems a deal breaker when it comes to
(17:47):
dating in politics. I want to talk about these these
dating maps that are getting more and more deeper into
political ideologies, and how do you raise kids when both
of you don't think the same way about stuff? It's
beyond the scenes. Well we'll sort this out. I'm gonna
tell you about time I dated a gun owner story
after the break Oh boy, before we talk a little
(18:10):
bit about these dating apps. You said something before the
break list that I want to circle back to, and
how sometimes you have to immerse yourself in someone else's
culture or ask questions and then you learn about it,
and sometimes you'll be shocked what you find out about yourself.
Like I don't own a gun. I want a gun.
I just never gotten around to getting the gun because
(18:32):
I always end up in a relationship with a woman
who don't want a gun in the house. I just
never bought the gun. And then I ended up in
a relationship one time with a woman who owned a gun.
And here's the funny thing. I didn't feel safe in
the house. I wouldn't and I can't explain it, but
(18:53):
just in my head, it was this kind of thing,
the gun in this house, gun and this house. Now,
if i'd have met her own gun owners dot Com,
then I could have sorted that right out. And it
wasn't It wasn't a deal breaker, but it definitely was
an adjustment, you know, in terms of dating, if I'm
(19:16):
being honest. And she was also a concealed carry person
as well. But that's a whole, whole, separate set of beans.
But when we talk about the dating apps, you know,
like like there's a conservative dating app called the Right
Stuff calling all conservatives. A new dating app called the
Right Stuff just might give you a chance to meet
your true match. It was funded by Peter Tale but
(19:39):
founded by former officials in the Trump administration who had
a hard time finding like minded people to date on
the existing dating apps that often made them feel and welcome.
But yeah, some of my friends would try to use
the apps theta the minute they became they became known
that they were working for Trump, the data immediately ended.
That happened several time, so my friends really yeah, girls
(20:02):
will just get up and leave or you know, abrupt
when we try to on the date. Do you think
dating maps that are rooted in political ideologies are helpful
in people finding like minded partners or does it drive
everybody to retreat into their own little bubbles where you
can't ask questions? And learn and inform yourself about the
(20:23):
other side like Liz did. And well, first of all,
you know, it's amazing how people think that this is new,
that these are these are sort of channels that are
going to keep you in the bubble. But as an anthropologist,
I mean for millions of years, you know, you met
that cute boy at the water hole, he's going to think,
like you know, he's going to do the same kind
of thing every day that you do. I mean, mankind
(20:43):
has always been, you know, in in certain channels. I mean,
how about on on a farming community, and you're still
gonna run at everybody at the same church and the
same grocery store, and people are gonna hold the same value.
So the bottom line is these don't threat me at all.
I think they help people find people that are sort
of like them. And what's nice about today is we've
(21:06):
got a huge number of alternatives. They don't have to
go to the right stuff. They can go to other
places and learn other things that I don't find it threatening.
I know that a lot of people it's called positive
assortative mating, and that's the anthropological term about the fact
that we are inclined um well, we're inclined to fall
we we tend to fall in love with somebody from
the same socio economic and and and ethnic background, same
(21:30):
degree of intelligence and good looks and education. We tend
to fall in love with somebody with the same values
and social and reproductive goals, economic goals, childhood always plays
a role. But the bottom line is we gravitate to
people like ourselves, and what these dating sizes are simply
doing is enabling you to find more people like yourself.
What's beautiful, as I said about today, is that we
(21:51):
can we can step out the way Liz is doing
and the way I certainly did, and learn other ways.
Whereas I think through most of humanity you really couldn't
step out. I mean, you know, you're stuck with sort
of your kind. And I think that right now it's
a beautiful time and human evolution where we're seeing we're
more people who don't share our views. We can reach
in and and learn something from them and then learn
(22:14):
more about ourselves. Just the way they said, Liz, how
do you feel about that? Like, do you think that
these dating maps are helpful? Like if there was a
dating website called Yes Abortions got relationships just spitball in
the U r L. I don't know if that's you
should buy that and we should start that it Not
(22:40):
only would I go to it, but it says a
lot more about the person than abortion. It says a
lot of other things that are a sort of coalesceent
to a general framework. Yeah, and I you know, once
a lot of protests, uh, you know this year. I
guess last year, you know, with Row v. Wade being overturned,
and I was like, this might be a good spot.
There's some a lot of guys here, um, which I
(23:00):
think is uh encouraging for the movement and also encouraging
for Yeah, relationships between men and women, you know, like
these are fundamental Um. Again, it can be fundamental deal breakers.
And and yeah, I'm not super opposed to any way
that helps people connect these days. I think it's I
(23:21):
think dating has become so hard, and that's where I
would love. I mean, Dr Fisher knows about it because
she's looking at the data, and I just think it's
it's very hard to be in relationship. I think the
pandemic we've still not recovered fully. Um. And and so
anything that brings people together, you know, whether it's like
a dating app for people who are on the right,
(23:42):
a dating app for farmers, a dating app for people
who right who love abortion. I'm all for it. I
think it's positive. I also think that we can't underestimate
the power of intimate relationships to revolutionize the world. Right.
Our minds are changed by people that we like. It's
very rare that a stranger, you know, yelling at you,
(24:03):
or even a stranger talking to you um or or
reading a book by a person that you don't even like, right,
I mean, first of all, that's not going to happen,
and second of all that that's really going to make
you think differently. But if your cousin says something to you,
if someone that you really like, um, you know, presents
a different perspective, or again, an author, I mean, there
are many authors that I read that I don't agree
with everything, but because I like them, and because I
(24:26):
have this weird you know, so para social relationship with them, um,
I care about what they say and I trust what
they say, and so I I do think that that
these intimate relationships can really be transformative. Um and and
and as much as you know should be also we
should have sympathy for singles, and you know, if they
want to go to their bubble where they feel comfortable,
(24:46):
that's also fine. Well, I just want to say something
about these dating sites that people really don't really get.
They are not dating sites. They are introducing sites. That's
all they do is introduced you. That's all they do.
And once you get out on that first date or
or a video chat, you smile the way always did,
you laughed the way always did you parade the way
(25:08):
always did you assess the way you always did. There's
not the dating site is not going to change who
you are. It's just where you're gonna find people and
then begin to assess them. And the problem with these
introducing sites is there's nothing really wrong with them. The
problem is there's so new that people don't know how
to use them, and they binge and the human brain
(25:28):
cannot cope with about more than about nine options. You know.
It's called cognitive overload or the paradox of choice, and
and people choose nobody. Uh. And the other thing is,
you know, because you know so little about somebody, you
overweight what you know and you suddenly think he likes cats,
I like dogs. It doesn't work. So the bottom line
(25:50):
is one of the things that Roy you were asking
about in the beginning is where we're headed. Uh. In
this annual study, one of the questions that I ask
is have you ever um fall in love with somebody
who you initially did not find attractive? And in fact
this year said yes. Singles are giving people a chance.
(26:10):
It's more than all of the last twelve years. Singles
are getting on these sites the beginning. I hope to
learn how to use them, and they're giving people a chance,
and I think this is a great step forward. Ugly
people who chance, not just more specific. I don't know
if that's the anthropological term, but in a ray, we'll
(26:31):
just say variety would be nice. They're given a variety
of faces and wanted to um. When we talk about
like deal breakers though, should dating be more about the
issues or the party affiliation when we come when it
comes time to talking about how you prioritize looking for
a lifelong partner, Because you know, I've also and my
(26:55):
single them. As of late, I found myself on dates
with women who are not vaccinated by choice, and I
had never been something I thought about until it was
actually sad and I was like, I don't agree with that,
but all right, let's see where a second date goes.
I guess. So it wasn't like you should you dat
(27:15):
a long party lines or along issue lines like how
would Roe v. Wade change? How did that change dating?
For instance? That changed it a lot. Just as Lizard said,
I mean, we did to study on this this past
year obviously, and two out of three women will not
date somebody with opposing views on abortion. And you know,
when I was talking with my colleagues at Match and
(27:36):
Justin Garcia, who I work with to analyze the data,
you know, people thought, well, you know, people are coming
much more flexible about politics, but they're not flexible about abortion.
And again, you know, once again as an anthropologist, I
get it. You know, politics comes and goes. I mean
Trump will come and Trump will go, Biden will come
and Biden will go. They will come and go. But
(27:58):
having a baby does not come and go. You know,
if you're not ready to have a child, or you
are ready to you know, whatever it is, you're going
to have that child for the rest of your life.
It doesn't come and go and then not. I'm not
at all surprised that this is the top of the
list right now, because this is a Darwinian issue. This
is not a social issue. So then to that point,
(28:20):
how are people with opposing views raising the kids? How
do you do that? Like in an inner political home?
Like I know that the whole child vaccination, you got
to be vaccinated to go back to this school divided.
And I'm talking from personal conversations I've had in group
chats with other married friends where it was a serious
issue because they didn't realize they were in a vaccin
(28:41):
anti vac excuse me, an inter vaccination home. By the way,
the antiological Yeah, that's a good one. I like it.
How are the opposing political views like influencing child rearing? Now, well,
this is something I've not been able to tell to anybody,
and thanks for asking. In this last with this of
(29:01):
Republicans do not want their children to marry somebody on
the other side of the aisle, and thirty three Democrats
do not want their children to marry somebody from the
other side of the aisle. So that's something they somehow
feel that they can whether the differences between themselves and
their partner. But it when comes to children having children
(29:23):
and sort of passing on their values to next generations
with their DNA. They feel very strongly about it. I'm
not surprised that the factors and the anti factors or
have his struggles. Liz, what have you seen, you know,
just in your own experiences with you know, either dating
people with children or your friend who have children who
are struggling now, especially when we start talking about preteen
(29:44):
children that are a lot more politically aware themselves. I
dated someone with kids and and this was you know,
it wasn't even a political issue. But but kids bring
in all kinds of different things, right for for a couple,
and especially when you're mixing two uh you know, to
people who have kids and now have new partners, UM,
that's that that can come with challenges. My perspective is
(30:06):
as a single person who doesn't have kids. UM. But
certain things UM are not a political issue. They're a
safety issue, right. Vaccination, although it's become a political issue,
which is you know, boggles the mind. And I don't
even know if we could have predicted UM before the
what I don't think we could have predicted the pandemic,
But also I don't think we could have predicted that
(30:29):
something like that that that is a health issue becomes
a political issue. And and it's the same thing with
the gun and that woman you know you are dating
who has a gun? Is that really about affiliation or
is about your safety? And and and your feeling is
of safety of physical safety in that relationship. And and
similar with abortion. I mean, if I'm going to risk
(30:50):
going to jail um to have sex with you, like
like if you're uh trying to keep that happening, and
and like are for that, I'm not gonna have sex
with you. Um. Yeah, that's like the that's the bar,
the bars in hell. But that's the bar. You know.
I'm not gonna go below that. And I feel okay
about that. Right after the break Um, hopefully we can
(31:13):
leave with some hope here that doctor and Madam Liz
and we can figure out ways that people can live
in a home with a unvaccinated gun on her while
raising a multi gender child in this new universe in
which we're living in. This is beyond the scenes. We'll
be right back beyond the scenes. We are around and
third and hit it for home. We have been talking
(31:34):
about inter political dating. I didn't even know that was
the official term, just I called it dating that girl
that watched a little too much Fox News, but she
cooked good, So I'll make new it. That's what I
call it. Uh, let's let's I'll start with you first.
What do you think the future of dating looks like?
(31:56):
Do you think it gets more technical? Do you think
people will get back to just dating all feeling instead
of letting site aggregate so many different details about us.
I think people are really hungry for human connection right
after Again, I talk about the pandemic not because I
want to bum people out, but because I want people
to be compassionate with themselves that we went through something
(32:20):
really traumatic and to be like, everything's fine now. It
is not. You know, it can be helpful in the
short term, but it can make you kind of blame
yourself for for certain consequences of that. And so what
I've been noticing is is more men kind of honestly
hitting on me, which I am so into. Um Men
coming up to me at coffee shops or in the streets,
(32:42):
striking a conversation right like in a respectful way. Um
I'm not no, yeah, not yelling from the other side
of the street to impress your male friends, but actually
seeking to connect. Um. With with with a person I
think is so wonderful. And I have noticed that people
have been more actively doing that because a lot of people.
As much as dating apps have helped us in tremendous
(33:04):
ways there, there they also can be uh, you know,
not a fun experience. UM for all of the reasons
that Dr Fisher are laid out where where people might
not be using them in the best way. So I
think people are hungry for human connection. I also think
we need to date more compassionately. We need to be
more compassionate with ourselves, We need to be more compassionate
(33:24):
with the other person. UM, and we have to give
ourselves more time. I did this podcast called Race to
five with Monica Penman and Dark Shepherd where I froze
my eggs with Monica and we documented the whole thing.
And part of doing that was talking about the fact
that a lot more women are freezing their eggs. It's
something that's not accessible to all women and should be
(33:46):
UM And I'm very lucky to be one of those women.
But but more women are delaying motherhood, are delaying these
big decisions about who they want to have kids with,
who they want to marry. UM. And I think that
buying time is great. I think that we should all
take a little bit more our time to get to
know ourselves, to get to know someone else, and to
kind of take the pressure off. That's what I see
(34:08):
for us. That's why I'm approaching dating. Uh. And it's
been a lot more it's been a lot better for
me since I've I've done that. Doctor, What do you
see the future of dating looking like based on the data? Yeah? No,
I am extremely optimistic actually, um. And what Liz is
actually talking about is something I've written quite a bit
about called slow love. And what we're doing isn't you
(34:31):
know fifty years ago people married in their very early twenties.
Now they're married and they're very late twenties or even
early thirties. So there's this long period of pre commitment
where you getting into yourself, you're trying people out, you're
getting rid of what you don't want, you know, like
the girl with the gun in the house, uh and
uh and going on to something. I didn't get rid
of her, she got rid of me, But I did
(34:56):
you suffer or sort of glad you're not a gun
on me? And nothing? You're too busy, you're you're too,
she said. I think you're getting into your me period
of your life right now. I don't know what that good. Well, well, anyway,
I am extremely optimistic. And by the way, nobody roy
(35:16):
gets out of life. We all get dumped, there's no
question about that. But anyway, the bottom line is, you know,
divorce is very low right now. It's been actually very
low for the last fifty years. It's it's the nine
seventies was when it was was higher. And we're dating
on the internet, and the data show that if you
met somebody on the internet rather than off then any
(35:36):
one of these sites anywhere, you're less likely to divorce.
And the longer you court before marriage, the more likely
you are to remain together. And those two huge worldwide
trends of dating on the internet, meeting people on the
internet and the slow love meeting you know, it's spending
a long time figuring out who you are are, both
(35:58):
very matter of fact. If you court somebody for about
three or more years, you're less likely to divorce. So
it's slow love. It's happening all over the world. And
I think last but not least for me. I mean,
first of all, I studied the brain I mean, we've
put over a hundred people into a brain scanner. I
mean that we know the brain circuitry of romantic love.
It's a basic drive, comes out of the most primitive
(36:20):
parts of the brain. We will always love. Courtship will change,
but the feeling of desire to be with somebody will
never change. I mean, it's primordial, it's adaptable, and it's eternal.
And I do think that with more of us internet dating,
where you get a wide variety of people, you've got
to handle it properly, and courting for a long period
(36:41):
of time is going to send us to wars. Actually
a few decades of relative family stability. I'll leave you,
ladies with one last question to take us home. What
words of encouragement do you have for our viewers who
are looking for love but I don't want to do
(37:02):
it digitally? Is there any hope for him? Doctor? How
do I meet people the old fashioned New York times
at a pool hall right on the napkin? Wait? How
do we do it? Is there still hopeful that? How
do they navigate the science? They got to get out
there anyway you get out there. Okay, some people do
it on the internet in their pajamas. Some people want
(37:23):
to get all dude it up and stand in a bar.
Whatever works. What just get out there. And by the way,
if I had to sum up, what is cat nip
to the opposite sex? It's people who are happy. Just
be happy, smile, be energetic, be interested in who other
people are. Is cat nip to the opposite sex? And Liz,
what hope would you give? Like? Because you've been approached
(37:43):
in the real world, welcome through. I'm a survivor. Yes,
um no, I've been on dates. I've been on successful
dates with men who have come up to me at
a coffee shop. Go coffee shops? Are these third places? Right? Um?
The first place is your home, second place where you work,
and these third places the gym. And again I'm not
saying go harass women while they're working out, but there
(38:03):
are ways of approaching strangers and smiling to uh Dr
Fisher's point, just smiling, looking up from your phone, put
your phone in your pocket. Okay. There are all kinds
of amazing people that you know you're not seeing if
you're if you're not looking up. Um, and so I
have two piece of advice. One of them, think about
who your future partner is right, Like on a Saturday,
(38:26):
where would they be go there? Would they be at
the gym? Go to the gym? Would they be at
a museum, Go to a museum. Would they be at
a panel about intergalactic universes? Like? Go to that panel? Uh.
And the second thing is every day give a compliment
to anybody of any gender. And this is not as
again a way of you know, not even as an
(38:48):
attempt to seduce people or to really make a lasting connection,
but it just kind of makes you more comfortable talking
and approaching someone that you don't know. Just practice the art, right,
it used to be much more normal talking to strangers. Um,
practice the art in your everyday life in small ways
and then yeah, I don't make you more likely to
(39:08):
end up striking those conversations with people that you do
find attractive and you are a little bit more nervous
to go up to. You'll have done it before. And
men like it, by the way, they didn't like it
women who try to pick them up. Yeah, yes, everyone
loves a compliment. Let me think, yeah, I do. It
doesn't happen often. When it happened, we usually have a
date something like yeah, something like nine of men are
(39:30):
perfectly happy if a woman moves in for the first kiss,
if a woman asked for her you know, for your
telephone number. But women don't do it. But the young
are beginning to, Yeah, we'll go with your potential mate
is and with that live in Helen, I beat you,
but do when I'm gonnahit the home depot because I
hope she's on the paint. Now that paint in his house.
(39:52):
That's all that, don't we all know what we're looking
for someone. I'm gonna just stand by the paint and
we're like, hello, baby, would you let you come and
help me while we eat pizza? Liz, Helen, thank you
so much. That's all the time we have for today.
But I appreciate you both for going beyond the scenes
with me. Thank you, thank you, Thank you all. Listen
(40:17):
to The Daily Show Beyond the Scenes on Apple podcast,
the I Heart Radio app, or wherever you get your podcasts.
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Therapy Gecko
An unlicensed lizard psychologist travels the universe talking to strangers about absolutely nothing. TO CALL THE GECKO: follow me on https://www.twitch.tv/lyleforever to get a notification for when I am taking calls. I am usually live Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays but lately a lot of other times too. I am a gecko.