April 26, 2021 • 33 mins
Chief Executive Officer of Consumer Lending at JP Morgan Chase, Marianne Lake, brings her masterful knowledge of finance and banking to the Big Money Energy podcast. Marianne gives her thoughts on the biggest mistakes people make with their money, what Americans take for granted about the country's banking system, and whether or not she sees herself as a pioneer in the world of finance.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome back to another episode of Big Money Energy, where
we talked to super successful and self made people to
find out exactly how they did it, how they went
from nothing to something. I'm Ryan, Sirhant, and today I'm
talking to a pioneer in the world of banking, Marianne Lake.
(00:21):
She's the Chief Executive Officer of Consumer Lending at JP
Morgan Chase and knows everything there is to know about money.
We discuss advice for people looking to pay down debt,
the biggest mistakes people make with their money, what Americans
take for granted in the banking system, and whether or
not it's smart to invest in cryptocurrency. So let's get
(00:43):
into it. Welcome to another episode. Today is a very
very special day because I finally got the guests who's
in front of me to agree to sit down with me.
Her schedule is insane for a lot of different reasons. One,
(01:06):
she's an absolute icon. She is a mega businesswoman. She's
the former CFO of JP Morgan and now the CEO
of Consumer Lending at JP Morgan Chase. Mary Anne Lake.
She's been with JP Morgan for twenty years, working as
a senior financial officer in London. Office and managing the
global financial infrastructure and control programs as a part of
the Corporate Finance Group. Not to mention she's a champion
(01:29):
of empowering women in finance. She is the co founder
of the Women on the Move Initiative, the largest employee
business resource group at the company. And as if that
wasn't enough, she also sits on the board of directors
of the New York City Ballet. She is easily one
of the smartest and most influential people in the world. Um,
and that is a statement. I'm gonna leave that there,
(01:49):
and has had such a dynamic career. Chase Cards Services
alone is the number one credit card issuer in the nation.
So I am super excited to be sitting down with
her today. Out further ado, Hi, Marianne, thanks for doing this.
My absolute pleasure to do it, and I'm thrilled to
be here. And that was a big intro, so we'll
hope to live up to it a bit. Well, there's more.
(02:10):
You know, when I wrote the intro, it was like
a full page. You know, it's tough because you do
so many things and you've had such a really it's
such an important and impressive career so then I'm like
trying to figure out with the team, like, Okay, we
won't go through all this stuff and I just I'll
just talk to her. How is it being back in
the city today. It's good. I like you to be here.
I miss it, if I'm honest with you, you know,
(02:31):
I think we've become incredibly capable virtually, and there are
some really big benefits to it, and some of those
are family related and some of them are, you know, professionally,
But I miss it. I missed the combustion, the collaboration,
that kind of bumping into people in the corridor. So
it's fun to be back for me. You know, back
then it was, you know, it was very new, scary.
(02:52):
Nobody knew what they were doing. New York was the
epicenter of this whole thing. And even though you know,
nationally it's still um, the pandemic is still an issue.
I feel like we kind of have a little bit
of an understanding about how to cope with it here.
So yeah, it's kind of like anything, right, Like you
you kind of figure out what your flaws are personally,
and then you just learn how to amplify your better traits.
(03:13):
It's like we've all kind of figured out, all right,
this virus is a flaw. We want to amplify our
better traits, coping mechanisms, all that. Can you talk to
me for just for a split second about you know,
you see all the time hospitals and you know, let's
say the police force fire department, they run drills all
the time for you know, terrorist attacks, for anything, anything, anything.
(03:33):
You are a very very large part of the biggest
bank in the world. Are there drills for if everyone
needs to stay home for seven months? What do you do?
How you operate? Yeah? So, I mean look, business resiliency
and kind of operational resildiency is a you know, pretty
critical part of what we do, and we're systemically important
(03:54):
all around the world to you know, the financial infrastructure
and all of our clients, and so we do drill
all of the time in every possible way. To be
completely candid, you know, many of the resiliency plans that
companies had in all genres of industry involved failing over
from one location to another and level loading around the world.
And clearly I would be misleading you to suggest that
(04:17):
we had the you know, one year long global pandemic
work from home drill. So you know, there was a
lot of lessons to be learned. And you know, my
hat is off to all the tech and infrastructure folks here,
you know, at our company, but quite frankly, you know
everywhere that managed to pull off getting you know, for
us two d fifty thousand close to two hundred and
fifty thousand people working from home in weeks and we've
(04:41):
just gotten better and better and better. And so you know,
when we look forward now to whatever that looks like,
resiliency planning for the future, you know, one of the
things that will be you know, conscious of is you know,
this whole dynamic of virtual working, working from home, and
you know, we should never lose this capability now, right,
One of the things that we're focus on and everybody
will be focused on, is what does the you know,
(05:03):
workpace solution look like in the future ways of working?
You know, will people be physical virtual hybrid? You know,
what will that look like? And so you know we're
working on it too, and it will be different. I'm
pretty sure would have been the benefits of virtual work
in a bank is productivity? Still there is the intellectual
conversation what's tougher like? What do you think that what
(05:27):
do you think is going to come out of this
Other than just that you can save on office space,
which everyone talks about. We're more worried about the things
that you might lose than necessarily focusing on the benefits.
But there are some I would say, you know, first
of all, this has been a deeply human crisis, and
so you know, we are first and foremost we employ um,
you know, two human beings who have families that they
care about, and many of many people have experienced sickness
(05:51):
and grief. And so the ability to continue to employ
those people and allow them to have, you know, a
more flexible working dynamic when they're kind of personal and
professional life is collided in this un like precedented, completely
unimaginable way, you know, has been a benefit, of course,
because you know, otherwise more people would have had to
(06:11):
put their hand up and say, I'm tapping out. I
need to go deal with you know, my kids, my family,
my circumstances, and you know, I think this virtual world
has allowed a degree of flexibility that we see when
we measure the statistics. We see some people are working
later at night and having to take some time off
during the day to get stuff done. Other people are
(06:32):
coming in because we need them to. Branches need to
be staffed to help our customers. The traders are in,
you know, and other people are working you know, an
extra hour a day that they're not commuting. So we're
paranoid about losing productivity. We measure everything we can measure,
which is not everything. I think that you know, our
employees have met us more than halfway and are like
(06:52):
putting in the extra time when they can, and so
we're just you know, sort of keeping the face. Now.
What we're worried about, other than just activity, is the
cultural draw down because you know, you build You're a
relationship guy, right, You build relationships because you have the
human interaction and the human factor and you get the
organic opportunities to sort of understand people and what makes
(07:14):
them tick. And you know that's hard. So figuring out
how you can mentor people virtually making the time to
like hire, how you hire people, how you train them,
how you mentor them, how you teach them the culture,
and then how you maintain the culture. That's you know,
what we're focused on. And you know, so far, so good, honestly,
like pleasantly surprised, but you know, it's the watch item,
and we're paranoid about that, so we're focused on over
(07:37):
compensating for it. We've started to have what we're calling
like zoom amnesia, because if the place doesn't change, the
screen doesn't change, and all that's changing, or the little
squares and faces. You know, I will always remember this meeting,
sitting down with you. I always remember, you know, good
times I've had with other people physically, because I haven't
going to remember these ceilings. You know that whatever the
(07:59):
zoom always looks the same, and so you know it's like, oh,
remember that conversation we had, and like I honestly vaguely,
I mean I remember, I remember the sound, remember exactly
that specific zoom meeting. Which is which is I think
tough for tough for growth? Right, Like it's everyone's going
to become either these these task tickers and doers. Everyone's
(08:23):
gonna have their little memo pads because they're not going
to be able to remember specific situations because they will
have no planting in place. Right, there's no hook. Everything
is like monochrome. But you know, look, I will say
one other benefit for me, and you know, I'm like
thrilled about this is if if you call me on
the phone these days, like you know, CELLU learned no video,
I'm like, what are you doing? Why? Why would you
(08:43):
do that? Why are we not looking at each other?
Like we can't necessarily be in the same room And
that's like a given. But now everything I do is
face to face. And so I'm weaning myself off email,
not completely, but as much as I can. And that's
a benefit, so you know, and I'm able to zoom
you at nine o'clock at night and it doesn't like
ruined my day. So there are some good stuff and
dinner with my kids, yes, family time. How stressful was
(09:14):
March twenty twenty. I think that this company and like
for me, you know, we rise to a good crisis.
If I'm honest with you, and you know, I think
that you feel the stress of it kind of a
little bit more when you're past the peak, So you know,
I would say, kind of June maybe felt to me
like my gosh, this is like, you know, still going
and here we are now in January. I think in
(09:36):
March for me it was it was all about our customers.
You know, we had millions of customers that needed our help.
In a variety of different capacities and they needed it quickly.
And when we were all sitting there in March, I
don't know about you, but you know, we didn't know
where it was going to end. And you know, we
were talking about unemployment in the you know above t
(09:57):
and you know, so if you think about the business
that we're in in terms of helping people, you know,
both with their financial lives in terms of their banking investments,
but also you know, with their lending um you know,
being able to provide them with quick solutions and you know,
engage with them digitally. That's the other thing. We're a
world where you know, our default is, you know, pick
(10:18):
up the phone and call the call center or go
into the branch and ask for help. And so we
rapidly had to turn around and say no, no no, no,
like we've we've got you covered digitally, and like reabituating
or obituating people to do things a little differently. So
I would say March and April it was like you know, execution, execution, execution,
you know, meeting every day, like solving problems, like figuring
(10:41):
out the plan, like getting after it, like singularly focused
on helping customers, and June was more than kind of
and then you know, you're re up what were some
of the tough decisions that you all had to make. Honestly,
if you come at something from a customer lends, decisions
to kind of become a little easier. But for us
it was you know that the government obviously has done
(11:02):
a huge amount to help all Americans at least to
try to, and you know we wanted to, you know,
step up and do our part. And so clearly as
you know, the cares that provided you know, certain protections
and payment relief for only parts of the mortgage industry.
And you know, I run not just a government lending business,
but also proprietary business and also a credit card business
(11:24):
and auto and auto lending business, and we have you know,
lending to small businesses, and so you know, we made
the decision that we were going to provide you know,
consistent relief across all asset classes from Marche. We had
it all built up and running digitally for everyone and
not sort of be led necessarily by just what's required,
but just you know, full stop, everybody who needs help
(11:45):
can get ninety days of relief, no questions asked, across
all asset classes to buy time, you know, for everybody
to figure out where this was going. And I wouldn't
say it was hard decision, but it was important to
make the decision and just do it. Yeah, I will say,
you know, in the converse stations that I have with salespeople,
buyer sellers around the country, in Chase was one of
(12:07):
those companies where everyone felt safe. Like that feeling. Actually,
I think in hindsight, you guys will see this in
consumer growth. Probably people always go to what they think
is safe because you know, they hear it through rumor
or they got them through that pandemic. I know, with
kind of the you know, the paycheck protection program, Chase
(12:27):
was right on top of it and was answering emails
everything quickly, whereas other banks were having a really really
hard time either technically or logistically playing catch up. But
that program ran through. You know, it didn't, but you
know part of the team that did it. And I
have a colleague of mine who's like an extraordinary partner
who spent large portions of her twenty year figuring out
(12:49):
the p p P program and is now you know,
doing again round two. And there will be you know,
around three and listen, we moments of truth are important
that you know, there are like customer experience is important
all the time, but it's never more important than when
there's a moment of truth for someone regardless of what
that is. That's what people remember. You know, you had
my back when I needed your help. And you know,
did we do everything right? You know? No? And did
(13:11):
you know will every customer be you know, we'll be
equally happy. I'm sure not, but we like definitely tried
and it is you know, our intention to like meet
our customers in those moments of truth. So PPP was
you know a really important program? Wasn't straightforward? It still isn't,
but you know we did our best. Are you you know,
motivated because there are so many people looking for home
(13:33):
loans right now and buying cars and spending money? Or
is there a worry in the back of your mind
as someone who runs the entire lending business, that these
interest rates are just too low? Where does inflation go?
What are the next couple of years going to look like?
These valuations, forget New York City, valuations on real estate
(13:53):
around the country are not making a whole lot of sense.
Like where we go from here, Disco. Do you think
it's a kind of roaring twenties into another crisis or
do you think we are set up as much smarter
and more capable. And so I think for me, I
think this is a very different situation than the great
(14:14):
you know, the recession that we had in the last
ten years. And I can speak for us, but I
think it's true, you know, quite broadly that like our
business is very different today than it was before, and
you know, we de risked and so and and this
isn't a consumer lead crisis either, So consumer balance sheets
are stronger. I mean that's not to say obviously that
(14:35):
at the margin there are not you know a lot
of people who are and will struggle and we should
have like significant empathy and might be there to help folks.
But you know, it is the case that you know,
in that kind of ability and willingness to pay spectrum,
you know, I think that the consumer just generally is
in a decent spot. And so with interest rates where
they are, and you know, and the appetite as you
(14:56):
talked about for home purchases in record purchase volumes in
this region, we've doubled our mortgage origination year. Every year.
I do think the next year or two has a
long way to run. And you know, we pulled back
a little bit on risk of course, you know, so
we we are always going to make sure that when
we do loans, we expect our customers be able to
unwilling to pay them. Um. So I don't actually see
(15:18):
that this is going to be something where we're going
to get through the next couple of years and then
see a significant consumer stress. But you know, we prepare
for the worst always. What advice do you give to
anyone who's listening who might have you know, let's say,
either lower credit or they've got a student loan that
they need to pay down. So it makes things hard
in this idea of the American dream of home ownership
(15:41):
just seems like it's getting further and further and further
away from their grasp. Is it? Just listen, go through
the motions. You gotta make money, they got to be
able to build up. These are the protocols. You know,
big banks need to calculate risk because there we we
deal with a lot of people as well. Um, you know,
first time homebuyers who have said to us, well listen, right,
I can't even I have some money, but I've got
(16:02):
this loan to pay down, I got this to handle,
I got this. I don't think I'll ever be able
to buy a home or afford it. Yeah, I mean, look,
at the end of the day, there are some things
you can control, and then there are obviously things that
you can't. And so you know, as an individual, you
can control like your credit, education, your financial health, doing
what you can do to make sure that you're positioning
yourself the best way you can for someone who's gonna,
(16:24):
you know, potentially assess you, you know for you know,
credit worthiness in the future. And so you know, everywhere
that you look, you can find your credit score, you
can find tips on how to improve it, um and
just maintain good financial discipline and health in what you do.
Do pay your bills on time, and don't overreach and
and and so for me, if you kind of take
(16:45):
those disciplines um, you know, into account and then I
would also say for us, we we also build relationships.
So it's not to say that we don't want to
make money on a transaction. But for me, if you're
a customer of Chase, you have had your financial situation
with us, we know your inflows, we know your outflows,
we know what you have. We're more inclined to be
able to lend you because we see risk separation. We
(17:07):
see that the performance of our own customers is better.
So I would say, you know, consolidate your financial situation
with a partner you trust, pay attention to your financial
discipline and your own financial health, do what you can
to improve your situation. And then there's an element of
things you can't control, so you know, patients is also
a virtue. And then if you can't you know, reach
(17:27):
the goals of being able to own a home, then
maybe there's other ways you can invest and continue to
grow your wealth. I mean, obviously the American dream is
that you have you know, home ownership and that it's
able to sort of create generational wealth for you and
and that's something for everyone should aspire to you, but
any wealth creation would be helpful. What was your connection
to money growing up? And as a kid, do you
(17:49):
remember so my dad he was an electronic engineer, so
he wasn't like this super ambitious guy, incredibly smart, um,
you know, had a good job. We were sort of
very happy and you know, financially healthy, but we didn't.
We weren't like wealthy by the stretch of imagination. I
do have a recollection and it's like not particularly clear,
but I do have a recollection of when I was
you know, old enough to know and young enough not
(18:11):
to be worried about it. Of interest rates in the
UK like hitting double digits and they're being you know,
a big negative equity wave and it being an actual
thing that was you know, worrying for my family. So
I have that recollection. And but other than that, you know,
it wasn't really something that I paid huge amounts of
attention to. We didn't have any real challenges, We didn't
(18:33):
have you know, significant excess either. And I would say
one sort of formative financial thing for me was when
I was at college and you know, I worked a
job as well as being at college and you know,
has a barmaid pulled pines, um, so yeah, it's fun,
it's social. Why not. But I did that as well
(18:55):
as like being at college, and I don't even really
know or have a clear appreciation of how I did it.
But I ran up some that's not like huge, but
like enough that I couldn't you get out on credit
cards and stuff not on credit cards, but like you know,
just not not so significant that it would be a thing.
But I remember being like really embarrassed and just like
making myself the promise that that's not happening again. And so,
(19:17):
you know, planning is a big part of what I do.
It's someone who's advised and is consulted, and it is
now a part of a very very large bank. What
what's the biggest money advice that you've either given or
(19:39):
someone's given to you that that you think everyone who's
listening could take away from. So I think two things.
One is like, you know, a little bit more super tactical,
but I think probably the most important thing. And then
one may be a bit more strategic. You need to
have some liquidity. You know, stuff happens and you can't
control everything clearly, right And you know we have in
(20:01):
this company, we have the JP Morgan Chase Institute that
does a lot of kind of research and did some
research on you know, um savings, and you know what
you need to be able to weather you know, a
contemporaneous or a simultaneous you know, decrease in income with
the spike and expenses. I think you lose your job
or your hours are curtailed, and you have a medical expense,
and you know, mostly you know, the rule of thumb
(20:24):
is six weeks of like you know, take home pay
would be a good liquidity buffer to try and help
make you resilient through those kinds of normal income volatility stresses.
And you know, two thirds of people in this company
don't have that, and you know, so that's one of
the reasons why national savings is such a priority. And
I do the same thing. I mean, it looks different
for me maybe, but you know, I, you know, take
(20:45):
a look at what I have that I need to
you know, lay out in terms of operating expense for
my life and my family, and I make sure that
that is at least for some period of time it's
liquid and that I have access to it um And
I just think that discipline, and it's not always possible,
and everybody's situation is different, but I think that like
having that when you can it is super important. And
(21:08):
you know, any kind of goals based savings, any kind
of ability to try and lean into that I think
would be you know, great advice and has been for me.
The other thing is, I think long term about your
financial situation, if you can, like if you can get
invested again, whether it's in investments, whether it's in you know,
your first home. However that is, even if it's in
a small amount, and stay invested through cycles and not
(21:31):
get sort of over excited with you know, the day
to day markets, stay invested, have a long term view.
Generally speaking for me, that's you know, that's my philosophy.
What's the biggest mistake though, that you think people make
with money? You know, from your position where you sit,
which you're the one, is there is there something you
(21:53):
know where a one third of Americans I wish I
wish people could just learn to stop doing that thing
and they'd be so much better off as it just savings. Probably.
I don't spend much time judging other people because you know,
I think everything is relative to your situation. So you know,
sometimes what looks like a mistake is by necessity. I
do think it is literally at its core, just like
(22:15):
financial discipline, so you know, don't overreach and pay your
bills on time you know you can control. I mean
not everybody can control all of the time. And if
you lose your job and you haven't got the funds
that you know, you know, circumstances can you know, can
conspire against you, of course, but if you have the capacity,
don't be sloppy. Um and you know, and then yes, savings.
So to me, it would be if you have the capacity,
(22:37):
if you're not in a difficult situation, don't be lacks,
don't be sloppy, don't use track of things, be on
top of it, like maintain the discipline that you would
over your health or whatever else. It is. What do
you think Americans take for granted with our banking system?
You see Venezuela for example, or other countries, and you know,
Americans like to complain a lot, right, not things that
(23:00):
are good enough. You know, you know the Cares Act.
It's only I can't remember what was it, trillions of dollars,
but it was only trillions. How come you can't do this?
How can we can't do that? And I feel like
if people just understood what it was like in other
parts of the world, it really come to appreciate a
lot in the United States, but specifically the US banking system. Yeah,
(23:21):
I mean, I look, I don't think that you know,
our customers take a lot for granted. I think they
have high expectations, and I think they should. They have
the right to have high expectations of the US banking system.
But I suppose of course that you know, we have
the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, we have a lot of
other you know, regulatory standards, and you know, the fd
(23:41):
I C insurance. So I think there's a lot of protections,
you know, for for US consumers in terms of the
you know, where they put their money in, the banking
relationships and how you know, regulated banks should be UM,
and the standards we should be held to when we're
dealing with other people's money and livelihoods and things like that, UM.
And so I think that there are high expectations and
(24:03):
that's like as it should be, honestly, and we have
to earn the right to continue to deserve that every day,
and that's that's healthy. So I don't know if it's unrealistic,
but I do think we are blessed over here. Of course,
we have you know, and you know, Jamie always says
it the deepest, most liquid financial markets in the world,
and you know, our Americans have access to you know,
(24:24):
I think differently situated you know, protections. What's a misconception
that people have of your job. Well, I don't know
if it's a misconception. I mean, I read a lot
of customer complaints. I think it's incredibly important to do it. Really, Yes,
listen to a lot of phone calls customer really all
those recorded calls, every time they see this call is
being recorded for yes, really, we're not all of them.
(24:44):
I listen. Yeah, we are. So I get complaints directly
to me. We you know, we also go through them often,
listen to the cause. I think it's not a misconception
of my job. Obviously, we're we're very large financial tution,
lots of lots of transactions, um, and you know that
that I'm sort of personally involved in deciding each and
(25:06):
every one of those is obviously not realistic. But I
do try to listen to the cause the complaints and
like really dig into what we could do differently. So
I don't know if it's a misconception, but we do
spend as much time and I do spend, you know,
a decent amount of time like really getting into the
nitty gritty of the experience, because you know, it's not
always where it should be and we need to do better.
(25:28):
Do you remember when you bought your first time. I
definitely remember when I bought my first time. I'm a
real estate geek. You know that, right, yes, yes, yes?
Where was it? It was in Wimbledon in London in
a mansion block, so like purpose built mansioned flats, hundred
years old, two and a half bedrooms. Yeah, it was
(25:48):
when I bought it. The real estate market in the
UK was like fully booming, so like quite literally between
starting to look for a place and like being able
to buy a place, I went from being able to
afford a small terraced house to a partment hundred percent
loan to value io when in the days when that
was a thing, really that was your loan. Super brave.
That's the bravest I've been. But then I like tightened
(26:11):
my belt. I didn't go out. I painted everything would
be your absolute nightmare. I painted every single room a
different color. Thanks swear to God. How long did I
have it? I had that from so I had that
for maybe two two and a half years, and I
was fortunate that in that two and a half years
the UK real estate market we're still doing quite well.
So Liquidated brought up not a hundred percent loan to
(26:32):
value you'd be delighted to know. Um, and I still
have that house, by the way, That is the house
I bought. Yeah, I still have that one. You keep
it rented or family lives there? My family? Yeah, okay, Yeah,
why do you think you like real estate so much?
I'm not great at investing in real estate, just so
they were clear, because I'm emotional about it, and I
think that's like not a really particularly um you know,
(26:53):
good trade. I actually I appreciate that. I guess I
just enjoy the process as my wich as I enjoy
the outcome of it. So you know, for me, I
spend a lot of time like getting to know the
neighborhoods I'm in so right now, you know, I'm not
in the city at the moment, and I spend a
lot of time just looking at everything that's for sale
around the area, so I know the markets. Yeah, it's
(27:16):
not necessarily about the deal. It's more about the like
awareness and having the context and the insights and being
a amateur of what you are, a deep deep amateur.
What would you say to women entering the workplace now?
And can you tell me a little bit about what
you do for women on the move and what that
(27:39):
initiative is all about. So Women on the Move started
being quite internally focused and started off working like a
Draper Morgan Chase, where a few of us in you know,
some senior positions in the company kind of said, well,
we should get together and listen to what the experience
is like if you are a woman working in this
company but maybe you're not at the level we're at,
or in the business in or even in New York,
(28:01):
and just really understand, you know, what the experiences like
and understand at a really practical level, whether we as
leaders could actually you know, champion some change and make
this a great place to work. We did that for
you know, a couple or three years, and then decided
that actually, you know, we ought to turn not just
to be internally but externally focused and look at you know,
women in corporate America, but also our clients and you know,
(28:26):
small business women, entrepreneurs and other parts of our client base,
and you know, try and see whether through our actual
businesses we could um, you know, promote more women run businesses.
Try and you provide capital or you know, get access
to capital for you know, female entrepreneurs and things that
are just a little bit harder. We have now internally
(28:47):
focused a lot of events that we do where we
do go out and go on the road and listen
to our employees and here like what's working and what's
not working and how we could change things. And as
I think you said at the beginning, the sort of
women's group in the company is the biggest resource group
we have. And there's tens of thousands of women and men,
by the way, who participate in that. UM. Many of
our women are mentored by great men who have you know,
(29:11):
wives and daughters and want women to be successful. UM.
And then obviously we're you know, structuring our businesses to
also make sure that we're promoting success for minority and
women owned businesses and communities. What do you think about
when people say you're a trailblazer in the industry? Do
you agree with them? Do you feel like that's a
(29:33):
lot of weight on your shoulders and you kind of
have to agree. I don't really think about it so
very much, except for I will tell you that when
I became the CFO of the company, and you know,
people would start asking me, you know, my thinking, my
thoughts about you know, women in the workforce and women
in corporate America, and I realized that you had a
responsibility to actually have a point of view and to
(29:56):
lean in and really you know, take some responsibility for
you know, helping others. But I don't, you know, think
so very much about myself. And you know, I do
this job because I love it in this company because
I love it, um you know, with a team that
I think is extraordinary, and nothing that any of us
do is like just us. The best leaders are people
who have you know, teams of people working for them
(30:18):
that are more talented than they are, and you know,
bring talent and culture along. And so I really think
it's got precious little to do with me, but I'm
happy to be a part of it. What would you
say is, I don't know what to say. Number one,
But why do you think you've been successful other than
just work really hard and you're smart and like math,
(30:38):
you know, there's there's got to be more to it
than that. You know, you are resilient, right persistent. I
will say that there are two things that that about
me that I think are the most true of anything.
And uh, and again I don't know that I'm the
only person that's ever said this, but it is definitely
true of me. And there is no one that will
be more prepared to me, and there will there is
(30:59):
no one that will ever our work me and you know,
so I think those are like reasonably um sort of
good core competencies is to like work hard, be prepared
um and you know, know your stuff and get stuff done. Um.
I think that you know, people become people have trust
and confidence in people who know what they're doing and
(31:21):
get stuff done, who actually have a clear appreciation of
what they don't know, know when to ask for help.
They don't consider that there are boundaries to their jobs,
that are willing to like put their hand up and
lean into things that haven't you know, got very much
to do with them. So who are great partners. And
then I wouldn't underestimate the importance of being nice to
(31:42):
be around, you know, I will. I know it's you
should never overuse it. But the number of times that
I've said to people like it is a genuine pleasure
to have you on the team. And that's not nothing right,
that is like pretty significant. People like to be with
people where they have trust and confidence in them because
they know that if they need help, gonna ask for it. Um.
If they can't do what you want them to do,
(32:03):
they're gonna like tell you that they are going to
work really hard and that they're going to do it
with a smile on their face and a good attitude
and be a great partner. Thank you so much for
doing this and going into the city amongst the craziness
I do come in. It's not just for you, but
I'm going to say it's just for me because that
makes me feel today. It was you. Yeah, good, great um,
(32:24):
and you're the best. Thank you so much and we'll talk.
Thank you if you're ready to take action today. Based
on Mary Anne Lake's entire blueprint for how she got
to where she is, go to Big Money Energy dot
com slash podcast to download an action plan and I
(32:45):
put together for you as well as the show notes.
That's Big Money Energy dot com slash podcast. Find more
podcasts like Big Money Energy on the I Heart Radio
app or wherever you get your podcasts. Big Money Energy
is hosted by me Ryan Sirhant. It's produced by Mike
Coscarelli and Joe Loreesca, an executive produced by Lindsay Hoffman.
Welcome back to another episode of Big Money Energy, where
we talked to super successful and self made people to
find out exactly how they did it, how they went
from nothing to something. I'm Ryan, Sirhant, and today I'm
talking to a pioneer in the world of banking, Marianne Lake.
(00:21):
She's the Chief Executive Officer of Consumer Lending at JP
Morgan Chase and knows everything there is to know about money.
We discuss advice for people looking to pay down debt,
the biggest mistakes people make with their money, what Americans
take for granted in the banking system, and whether or
not it's smart to invest in cryptocurrency. So let's get
(00:43):
into it. Welcome to another episode. Today is a very
very special day because I finally got the guests who's
in front of me to agree to sit down with me.
Her schedule is insane for a lot of different reasons. One,
(01:06):
she's an absolute icon. She is a mega businesswoman. She's
the former CFO of JP Morgan and now the CEO
of Consumer Lending at JP Morgan Chase. Mary Anne Lake.
She's been with JP Morgan for twenty years, working as
a senior financial officer in London. Office and managing the
global financial infrastructure and control programs as a part of
the Corporate Finance Group. Not to mention she's a champion
(01:29):
of empowering women in finance. She is the co founder
of the Women on the Move Initiative, the largest employee
business resource group at the company. And as if that
wasn't enough, she also sits on the board of directors
of the New York City Ballet. She is easily one
of the smartest and most influential people in the world. Um,
and that is a statement. I'm gonna leave that there,
(01:49):
and has had such a dynamic career. Chase Cards Services
alone is the number one credit card issuer in the nation.
So I am super excited to be sitting down with
her today. Out further ado, Hi, Marianne, thanks for doing this.
My absolute pleasure to do it, and I'm thrilled to
be here. And that was a big intro, so we'll
hope to live up to it a bit. Well, there's more.
(02:10):
You know, when I wrote the intro, it was like
a full page. You know, it's tough because you do
so many things and you've had such a really it's
such an important and impressive career so then I'm like
trying to figure out with the team, like, Okay, we
won't go through all this stuff and I just I'll
just talk to her. How is it being back in
the city today. It's good. I like you to be here.
I miss it, if I'm honest with you, you know,
(02:31):
I think we've become incredibly capable virtually, and there are
some really big benefits to it, and some of those
are family related and some of them are, you know, professionally,
But I miss it. I missed the combustion, the collaboration,
that kind of bumping into people in the corridor. So
it's fun to be back for me. You know, back
then it was, you know, it was very new, scary.
(02:52):
Nobody knew what they were doing. New York was the
epicenter of this whole thing. And even though you know,
nationally it's still um, the pandemic is still an issue.
I feel like we kind of have a little bit
of an understanding about how to cope with it here.
So yeah, it's kind of like anything, right, Like you
you kind of figure out what your flaws are personally,
and then you just learn how to amplify your better traits.
(03:13):
It's like we've all kind of figured out, all right,
this virus is a flaw. We want to amplify our
better traits, coping mechanisms, all that. Can you talk to
me for just for a split second about you know,
you see all the time hospitals and you know, let's
say the police force fire department, they run drills all
the time for you know, terrorist attacks, for anything, anything, anything.
(03:33):
You are a very very large part of the biggest
bank in the world. Are there drills for if everyone
needs to stay home for seven months? What do you do?
How you operate? Yeah? So, I mean look, business resiliency
and kind of operational resildiency is a you know, pretty
critical part of what we do, and we're systemically important
(03:54):
all around the world to you know, the financial infrastructure
and all of our clients, and so we do drill
all of the time in every possible way. To be
completely candid, you know, many of the resiliency plans that
companies had in all genres of industry involved failing over
from one location to another and level loading around the world.
And clearly I would be misleading you to suggest that
(04:17):
we had the you know, one year long global pandemic
work from home drill. So you know, there was a
lot of lessons to be learned. And you know, my
hat is off to all the tech and infrastructure folks here,
you know, at our company, but quite frankly, you know
everywhere that managed to pull off getting you know, for
us two d fifty thousand close to two hundred and
fifty thousand people working from home in weeks and we've
(04:41):
just gotten better and better and better. And so you know,
when we look forward now to whatever that looks like,
resiliency planning for the future, you know, one of the
things that will be you know, conscious of is you know,
this whole dynamic of virtual working, working from home, and
you know, we should never lose this capability now, right,
One of the things that we're focus on and everybody
will be focused on, is what does the you know,
(05:03):
workpace solution look like in the future ways of working?
You know, will people be physical virtual hybrid? You know,
what will that look like? And so you know we're
working on it too, and it will be different. I'm
pretty sure would have been the benefits of virtual work
in a bank is productivity? Still there is the intellectual
conversation what's tougher like? What do you think that what
(05:27):
do you think is going to come out of this
Other than just that you can save on office space,
which everyone talks about. We're more worried about the things
that you might lose than necessarily focusing on the benefits.
But there are some I would say, you know, first
of all, this has been a deeply human crisis, and
so you know, we are first and foremost we employ um,
you know, two human beings who have families that they
care about, and many of many people have experienced sickness
(05:51):
and grief. And so the ability to continue to employ
those people and allow them to have, you know, a
more flexible working dynamic when they're kind of personal and
professional life is collided in this un like precedented, completely
unimaginable way, you know, has been a benefit, of course,
because you know, otherwise more people would have had to
(06:11):
put their hand up and say, I'm tapping out. I
need to go deal with you know, my kids, my family,
my circumstances, and you know, I think this virtual world
has allowed a degree of flexibility that we see when
we measure the statistics. We see some people are working
later at night and having to take some time off
during the day to get stuff done. Other people are
(06:32):
coming in because we need them to. Branches need to
be staffed to help our customers. The traders are in,
you know, and other people are working you know, an
extra hour a day that they're not commuting. So we're
paranoid about losing productivity. We measure everything we can measure,
which is not everything. I think that you know, our
employees have met us more than halfway and are like
(06:52):
putting in the extra time when they can, and so
we're just you know, sort of keeping the face. Now.
What we're worried about, other than just activity, is the
cultural draw down because you know, you build You're a
relationship guy, right, You build relationships because you have the
human interaction and the human factor and you get the
organic opportunities to sort of understand people and what makes
(07:14):
them tick. And you know that's hard. So figuring out
how you can mentor people virtually making the time to
like hire, how you hire people, how you train them,
how you mentor them, how you teach them the culture,
and then how you maintain the culture. That's you know,
what we're focused on. And you know, so far, so good, honestly,
like pleasantly surprised, but you know, it's the watch item,
and we're paranoid about that, so we're focused on over
(07:37):
compensating for it. We've started to have what we're calling
like zoom amnesia, because if the place doesn't change, the
screen doesn't change, and all that's changing, or the little
squares and faces. You know, I will always remember this meeting,
sitting down with you. I always remember, you know, good
times I've had with other people physically, because I haven't
going to remember these ceilings. You know that whatever the
(07:59):
zoom always looks the same, and so you know it's like, oh,
remember that conversation we had, and like I honestly vaguely,
I mean I remember, I remember the sound, remember exactly
that specific zoom meeting. Which is which is I think
tough for tough for growth? Right, Like it's everyone's going
to become either these these task tickers and doers. Everyone's
(08:23):
gonna have their little memo pads because they're not going
to be able to remember specific situations because they will
have no planting in place. Right, there's no hook. Everything
is like monochrome. But you know, look, I will say
one other benefit for me, and you know, I'm like
thrilled about this is if if you call me on
the phone these days, like you know, CELLU learned no video,
I'm like, what are you doing? Why? Why would you
(08:43):
do that? Why are we not looking at each other?
Like we can't necessarily be in the same room And
that's like a given. But now everything I do is
face to face. And so I'm weaning myself off email,
not completely, but as much as I can. And that's
a benefit, so you know, and I'm able to zoom
you at nine o'clock at night and it doesn't like
ruined my day. So there are some good stuff and
dinner with my kids, yes, family time. How stressful was
(09:14):
March twenty twenty. I think that this company and like
for me, you know, we rise to a good crisis.
If I'm honest with you, and you know, I think
that you feel the stress of it kind of a
little bit more when you're past the peak, So you know,
I would say, kind of June maybe felt to me
like my gosh, this is like, you know, still going
and here we are now in January. I think in
(09:36):
March for me it was it was all about our customers.
You know, we had millions of customers that needed our help.
In a variety of different capacities and they needed it quickly.
And when we were all sitting there in March, I
don't know about you, but you know, we didn't know
where it was going to end. And you know, we
were talking about unemployment in the you know above t
(09:57):
and you know, so if you think about the business
that we're in in terms of helping people, you know,
both with their financial lives in terms of their banking investments,
but also you know, with their lending um you know,
being able to provide them with quick solutions and you know,
engage with them digitally. That's the other thing. We're a
world where you know, our default is, you know, pick
(10:18):
up the phone and call the call center or go
into the branch and ask for help. And so we
rapidly had to turn around and say no, no no, no,
like we've we've got you covered digitally, and like reabituating
or obituating people to do things a little differently. So
I would say March and April it was like you know, execution, execution, execution,
you know, meeting every day, like solving problems, like figuring
(10:41):
out the plan, like getting after it, like singularly focused
on helping customers, and June was more than kind of
and then you know, you're re up what were some
of the tough decisions that you all had to make. Honestly,
if you come at something from a customer lends, decisions
to kind of become a little easier. But for us
it was you know that the government obviously has done
(11:02):
a huge amount to help all Americans at least to
try to, and you know we wanted to, you know,
step up and do our part. And so clearly as
you know, the cares that provided you know, certain protections
and payment relief for only parts of the mortgage industry.
And you know, I run not just a government lending business,
but also proprietary business and also a credit card business
(11:24):
and auto and auto lending business, and we have you know,
lending to small businesses, and so you know, we made
the decision that we were going to provide you know,
consistent relief across all asset classes from Marche. We had
it all built up and running digitally for everyone and
not sort of be led necessarily by just what's required,
but just you know, full stop, everybody who needs help
(11:45):
can get ninety days of relief, no questions asked, across
all asset classes to buy time, you know, for everybody
to figure out where this was going. And I wouldn't
say it was hard decision, but it was important to
make the decision and just do it. Yeah, I will say,
you know, in the converse stations that I have with salespeople,
buyer sellers around the country, in Chase was one of
(12:07):
those companies where everyone felt safe. Like that feeling. Actually,
I think in hindsight, you guys will see this in
consumer growth. Probably people always go to what they think
is safe because you know, they hear it through rumor
or they got them through that pandemic. I know, with
kind of the you know, the paycheck protection program, Chase
(12:27):
was right on top of it and was answering emails
everything quickly, whereas other banks were having a really really
hard time either technically or logistically playing catch up. But
that program ran through. You know, it didn't, but you
know part of the team that did it. And I
have a colleague of mine who's like an extraordinary partner
who spent large portions of her twenty year figuring out
(12:49):
the p p P program and is now you know,
doing again round two. And there will be you know,
around three and listen, we moments of truth are important
that you know, there are like customer experience is important
all the time, but it's never more important than when
there's a moment of truth for someone regardless of what
that is. That's what people remember. You know, you had
my back when I needed your help. And you know,
did we do everything right? You know? No? And did
(13:11):
you know will every customer be you know, we'll be
equally happy. I'm sure not, but we like definitely tried
and it is you know, our intention to like meet
our customers in those moments of truth. So PPP was
you know a really important program? Wasn't straightforward? It still isn't,
but you know we did our best. Are you you know,
motivated because there are so many people looking for home
(13:33):
loans right now and buying cars and spending money? Or
is there a worry in the back of your mind
as someone who runs the entire lending business, that these
interest rates are just too low? Where does inflation go?
What are the next couple of years going to look like?
These valuations, forget New York City, valuations on real estate
(13:53):
around the country are not making a whole lot of sense.
Like where we go from here, Disco. Do you think
it's a kind of roaring twenties into another crisis or
do you think we are set up as much smarter
and more capable. And so I think for me, I
think this is a very different situation than the great
(14:14):
you know, the recession that we had in the last
ten years. And I can speak for us, but I
think it's true, you know, quite broadly that like our
business is very different today than it was before, and
you know, we de risked and so and and this
isn't a consumer lead crisis either, So consumer balance sheets
are stronger. I mean that's not to say obviously that
(14:35):
at the margin there are not you know a lot
of people who are and will struggle and we should
have like significant empathy and might be there to help folks.
But you know, it is the case that you know,
in that kind of ability and willingness to pay spectrum,
you know, I think that the consumer just generally is
in a decent spot. And so with interest rates where
they are, and you know, and the appetite as you
(14:56):
talked about for home purchases in record purchase volumes in
this region, we've doubled our mortgage origination year. Every year.
I do think the next year or two has a
long way to run. And you know, we pulled back
a little bit on risk of course, you know, so
we we are always going to make sure that when
we do loans, we expect our customers be able to
unwilling to pay them. Um. So I don't actually see
(15:18):
that this is going to be something where we're going
to get through the next couple of years and then
see a significant consumer stress. But you know, we prepare
for the worst always. What advice do you give to
anyone who's listening who might have you know, let's say,
either lower credit or they've got a student loan that
they need to pay down. So it makes things hard
in this idea of the American dream of home ownership
(15:41):
just seems like it's getting further and further and further
away from their grasp. Is it? Just listen, go through
the motions. You gotta make money, they got to be
able to build up. These are the protocols. You know,
big banks need to calculate risk because there we we
deal with a lot of people as well. Um, you know,
first time homebuyers who have said to us, well listen, right,
I can't even I have some money, but I've got
(16:02):
this loan to pay down, I got this to handle,
I got this. I don't think I'll ever be able
to buy a home or afford it. Yeah, I mean, look,
at the end of the day, there are some things
you can control, and then there are obviously things that
you can't. And so you know, as an individual, you
can control like your credit, education, your financial health, doing
what you can do to make sure that you're positioning
yourself the best way you can for someone who's gonna,
(16:24):
you know, potentially assess you, you know for you know,
credit worthiness in the future. And so you know, everywhere
that you look, you can find your credit score, you
can find tips on how to improve it, um and
just maintain good financial discipline and health in what you do.
Do pay your bills on time, and don't overreach and
and and so for me, if you kind of take
(16:45):
those disciplines um, you know, into account and then I
would also say for us, we we also build relationships.
So it's not to say that we don't want to
make money on a transaction. But for me, if you're
a customer of Chase, you have had your financial situation
with us, we know your inflows, we know your outflows,
we know what you have. We're more inclined to be
able to lend you because we see risk separation. We
(17:07):
see that the performance of our own customers is better.
So I would say, you know, consolidate your financial situation
with a partner you trust, pay attention to your financial
discipline and your own financial health, do what you can
to improve your situation. And then there's an element of
things you can't control, so you know, patients is also
a virtue. And then if you can't you know, reach
(17:27):
the goals of being able to own a home, then
maybe there's other ways you can invest and continue to
grow your wealth. I mean, obviously the American dream is
that you have you know, home ownership and that it's
able to sort of create generational wealth for you and
and that's something for everyone should aspire to you, but
any wealth creation would be helpful. What was your connection
to money growing up? And as a kid, do you
(17:49):
remember so my dad he was an electronic engineer, so
he wasn't like this super ambitious guy, incredibly smart, um,
you know, had a good job. We were sort of
very happy and you know, financially healthy, but we didn't.
We weren't like wealthy by the stretch of imagination. I
do have a recollection and it's like not particularly clear,
but I do have a recollection of when I was
you know, old enough to know and young enough not
(18:11):
to be worried about it. Of interest rates in the
UK like hitting double digits and they're being you know,
a big negative equity wave and it being an actual
thing that was you know, worrying for my family. So
I have that recollection. And but other than that, you know,
it wasn't really something that I paid huge amounts of
attention to. We didn't have any real challenges, We didn't
(18:33):
have you know, significant excess either. And I would say
one sort of formative financial thing for me was when
I was at college and you know, I worked a
job as well as being at college and you know,
has a barmaid pulled pines, um, so yeah, it's fun,
it's social. Why not. But I did that as well
(18:55):
as like being at college, and I don't even really
know or have a clear appreciation of how I did it.
But I ran up some that's not like huge, but
like enough that I couldn't you get out on credit
cards and stuff not on credit cards, but like you know,
just not not so significant that it would be a thing.
But I remember being like really embarrassed and just like
making myself the promise that that's not happening again. And so,
(19:17):
you know, planning is a big part of what I do.
It's someone who's advised and is consulted, and it is
now a part of a very very large bank. What
what's the biggest money advice that you've either given or
(19:39):
someone's given to you that that you think everyone who's
listening could take away from. So I think two things.
One is like, you know, a little bit more super tactical,
but I think probably the most important thing. And then
one may be a bit more strategic. You need to
have some liquidity. You know, stuff happens and you can't
control everything clearly, right And you know we have in
(20:01):
this company, we have the JP Morgan Chase Institute that
does a lot of kind of research and did some
research on you know, um savings, and you know what
you need to be able to weather you know, a
contemporaneous or a simultaneous you know, decrease in income with
the spike and expenses. I think you lose your job
or your hours are curtailed, and you have a medical expense,
and you know, mostly you know, the rule of thumb
(20:24):
is six weeks of like you know, take home pay
would be a good liquidity buffer to try and help
make you resilient through those kinds of normal income volatility stresses.
And you know, two thirds of people in this company
don't have that, and you know, so that's one of
the reasons why national savings is such a priority. And
I do the same thing. I mean, it looks different
for me maybe, but you know, I, you know, take
(20:45):
a look at what I have that I need to
you know, lay out in terms of operating expense for
my life and my family, and I make sure that
that is at least for some period of time it's
liquid and that I have access to it um And
I just think that discipline, and it's not always possible,
and everybody's situation is different, but I think that like
having that when you can it is super important. And
(21:08):
you know, any kind of goals based savings, any kind
of ability to try and lean into that I think
would be you know, great advice and has been for me.
The other thing is, I think long term about your
financial situation, if you can, like if you can get
invested again, whether it's in investments, whether it's in you know,
your first home. However that is, even if it's in
a small amount, and stay invested through cycles and not
(21:31):
get sort of over excited with you know, the day
to day markets, stay invested, have a long term view.
Generally speaking for me, that's you know, that's my philosophy.
What's the biggest mistake though, that you think people make
with money? You know, from your position where you sit,
which you're the one, is there is there something you
(21:53):
know where a one third of Americans I wish I
wish people could just learn to stop doing that thing
and they'd be so much better off as it just savings. Probably.
I don't spend much time judging other people because you know,
I think everything is relative to your situation. So you know,
sometimes what looks like a mistake is by necessity. I
do think it is literally at its core, just like
(22:15):
financial discipline, so you know, don't overreach and pay your
bills on time you know you can control. I mean
not everybody can control all of the time. And if
you lose your job and you haven't got the funds
that you know, you know, circumstances can you know, can
conspire against you, of course, but if you have the capacity,
don't be sloppy. Um and you know, and then yes, savings.
So to me, it would be if you have the capacity,
(22:37):
if you're not in a difficult situation, don't be lacks,
don't be sloppy, don't use track of things, be on
top of it, like maintain the discipline that you would
over your health or whatever else. It is. What do
you think Americans take for granted with our banking system?
You see Venezuela for example, or other countries, and you know,
Americans like to complain a lot, right, not things that
(23:00):
are good enough. You know, you know the Cares Act.
It's only I can't remember what was it, trillions of dollars,
but it was only trillions. How come you can't do this?
How can we can't do that? And I feel like
if people just understood what it was like in other
parts of the world, it really come to appreciate a
lot in the United States, but specifically the US banking system. Yeah,
(23:21):
I mean, I look, I don't think that you know,
our customers take a lot for granted. I think they
have high expectations, and I think they should. They have
the right to have high expectations of the US banking system.
But I suppose of course that you know, we have
the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, we have a lot of
other you know, regulatory standards, and you know, the fd
(23:41):
I C insurance. So I think there's a lot of protections,
you know, for for US consumers in terms of the
you know, where they put their money in, the banking
relationships and how you know, regulated banks should be UM,
and the standards we should be held to when we're
dealing with other people's money and livelihoods and things like that, UM.
And so I think that there are high expectations and
(24:03):
that's like as it should be, honestly, and we have
to earn the right to continue to deserve that every day,
and that's that's healthy. So I don't know if it's unrealistic,
but I do think we are blessed over here. Of course,
we have you know, and you know, Jamie always says
it the deepest, most liquid financial markets in the world,
and you know, our Americans have access to you know,
(24:24):
I think differently situated you know, protections. What's a misconception
that people have of your job. Well, I don't know
if it's a misconception. I mean, I read a lot
of customer complaints. I think it's incredibly important to do it. Really, Yes,
listen to a lot of phone calls customer really all
those recorded calls, every time they see this call is
being recorded for yes, really, we're not all of them.
(24:44):
I listen. Yeah, we are. So I get complaints directly
to me. We you know, we also go through them often,
listen to the cause. I think it's not a misconception
of my job. Obviously, we're we're very large financial tution,
lots of lots of transactions, um, and you know that
that I'm sort of personally involved in deciding each and
(25:06):
every one of those is obviously not realistic. But I
do try to listen to the cause the complaints and
like really dig into what we could do differently. So
I don't know if it's a misconception, but we do
spend as much time and I do spend, you know,
a decent amount of time like really getting into the
nitty gritty of the experience, because you know, it's not
always where it should be and we need to do better.
(25:28):
Do you remember when you bought your first time. I
definitely remember when I bought my first time. I'm a
real estate geek. You know that, right, yes, yes, yes?
Where was it? It was in Wimbledon in London in
a mansion block, so like purpose built mansioned flats, hundred
years old, two and a half bedrooms. Yeah, it was
(25:48):
when I bought it. The real estate market in the
UK was like fully booming, so like quite literally between
starting to look for a place and like being able
to buy a place, I went from being able to
afford a small terraced house to a partment hundred percent
loan to value io when in the days when that
was a thing, really that was your loan. Super brave.
That's the bravest I've been. But then I like tightened
(26:11):
my belt. I didn't go out. I painted everything would
be your absolute nightmare. I painted every single room a
different color. Thanks swear to God. How long did I
have it? I had that from so I had that
for maybe two two and a half years, and I
was fortunate that in that two and a half years
the UK real estate market we're still doing quite well.
So Liquidated brought up not a hundred percent loan to
(26:32):
value you'd be delighted to know. Um, and I still
have that house, by the way, That is the house
I bought. Yeah, I still have that one. You keep
it rented or family lives there? My family? Yeah, okay, Yeah,
why do you think you like real estate so much?
I'm not great at investing in real estate, just so
they were clear, because I'm emotional about it, and I
think that's like not a really particularly um you know,
(26:53):
good trade. I actually I appreciate that. I guess I
just enjoy the process as my wich as I enjoy
the outcome of it. So you know, for me, I
spend a lot of time like getting to know the
neighborhoods I'm in so right now, you know, I'm not
in the city at the moment, and I spend a
lot of time just looking at everything that's for sale
around the area, so I know the markets. Yeah, it's
(27:16):
not necessarily about the deal. It's more about the like
awareness and having the context and the insights and being
a amateur of what you are, a deep deep amateur.
What would you say to women entering the workplace now?
And can you tell me a little bit about what
you do for women on the move and what that
(27:39):
initiative is all about. So Women on the Move started
being quite internally focused and started off working like a
Draper Morgan Chase, where a few of us in you know,
some senior positions in the company kind of said, well,
we should get together and listen to what the experience
is like if you are a woman working in this
company but maybe you're not at the level we're at,
or in the business in or even in New York,
(28:01):
and just really understand, you know, what the experiences like
and understand at a really practical level, whether we as
leaders could actually you know, champion some change and make
this a great place to work. We did that for
you know, a couple or three years, and then decided
that actually, you know, we ought to turn not just
to be internally but externally focused and look at you know,
women in corporate America, but also our clients and you know,
(28:26):
small business women, entrepreneurs and other parts of our client base,
and you know, try and see whether through our actual
businesses we could um, you know, promote more women run businesses.
Try and you provide capital or you know, get access
to capital for you know, female entrepreneurs and things that
are just a little bit harder. We have now internally
(28:47):
focused a lot of events that we do where we
do go out and go on the road and listen
to our employees and here like what's working and what's
not working and how we could change things. And as
I think you said at the beginning, the sort of
women's group in the company is the biggest resource group
we have. And there's tens of thousands of women and men,
by the way, who participate in that. UM. Many of
our women are mentored by great men who have you know,
(29:11):
wives and daughters and want women to be successful. UM.
And then obviously we're you know, structuring our businesses to
also make sure that we're promoting success for minority and
women owned businesses and communities. What do you think about
when people say you're a trailblazer in the industry? Do
you agree with them? Do you feel like that's a
(29:33):
lot of weight on your shoulders and you kind of
have to agree. I don't really think about it so
very much, except for I will tell you that when
I became the CFO of the company, and you know,
people would start asking me, you know, my thinking, my
thoughts about you know, women in the workforce and women
in corporate America, and I realized that you had a
responsibility to actually have a point of view and to
(29:56):
lean in and really you know, take some responsibility for
you know, helping others. But I don't, you know, think
so very much about myself. And you know, I do
this job because I love it in this company because
I love it, um you know, with a team that
I think is extraordinary, and nothing that any of us
do is like just us. The best leaders are people
who have you know, teams of people working for them
(30:18):
that are more talented than they are, and you know,
bring talent and culture along. And so I really think
it's got precious little to do with me, but I'm
happy to be a part of it. What would you
say is, I don't know what to say. Number one,
But why do you think you've been successful other than
just work really hard and you're smart and like math,
(30:38):
you know, there's there's got to be more to it
than that. You know, you are resilient, right persistent. I
will say that there are two things that that about
me that I think are the most true of anything.
And uh, and again I don't know that I'm the
only person that's ever said this, but it is definitely
true of me. And there is no one that will
be more prepared to me, and there will there is
(30:59):
no one that will ever our work me and you know,
so I think those are like reasonably um sort of
good core competencies is to like work hard, be prepared
um and you know, know your stuff and get stuff done. Um.
I think that you know, people become people have trust
and confidence in people who know what they're doing and
(31:21):
get stuff done, who actually have a clear appreciation of
what they don't know, know when to ask for help.
They don't consider that there are boundaries to their jobs,
that are willing to like put their hand up and
lean into things that haven't you know, got very much
to do with them. So who are great partners. And
then I wouldn't underestimate the importance of being nice to
(31:42):
be around, you know, I will. I know it's you
should never overuse it. But the number of times that
I've said to people like it is a genuine pleasure
to have you on the team. And that's not nothing right,
that is like pretty significant. People like to be with
people where they have trust and confidence in them because
they know that if they need help, gonna ask for it. Um.
If they can't do what you want them to do,
(32:03):
they're gonna like tell you that they are going to
work really hard and that they're going to do it
with a smile on their face and a good attitude
and be a great partner. Thank you so much for
doing this and going into the city amongst the craziness
I do come in. It's not just for you, but
I'm going to say it's just for me because that
makes me feel today. It was you. Yeah, good, great um,
(32:24):
and you're the best. Thank you so much and we'll talk.
Thank you if you're ready to take action today. Based
on Mary Anne Lake's entire blueprint for how she got
to where she is, go to Big Money Energy dot
com slash podcast to download an action plan and I
(32:45):
put together for you as well as the show notes.
That's Big Money Energy dot com slash podcast. Find more
podcasts like Big Money Energy on the I Heart Radio
app or wherever you get your podcasts. Big Money Energy
is hosted by me Ryan Sirhant. It's produced by Mike
Coscarelli and Joe Loreesca, an executive produced by Lindsay Hoffman.
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