Chapter 5: Chief John Horse

Long before the divisive question of slavery was finally settled in the Civil War, there were the Seminole Wars — three of them —- and they were the largest sustained revolt of formerly enslaved people and their Indigenous allies. 

On the one side there was Andrew Jackson; on the other was a Black Seminole, Chief John Horse. By the end of his long life, he would come to be called the Moses of the Seminoles. He would fight for and against the US government, successfully winning his freedom and land for his people.

Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.com

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
At the conclusion of the War of eighteen twelve, a
British commander and Irishman Edward Nichols is in charge of
an unnamed fort in northern Florida, and he's busy planning
for his retreat. The British have lost a second fight
to their former colonies now known as the United States.
As one fine elect of defiance, Nichols leaves the fort
fully armed with cannons, muskets, and gunpowder. Then he hands

(00:23):
the fort, in all of its weaponry, over to the
black soldiers who fought for him as colonial marines. Irishman
Edward Nichols is a veteran hero of the Napoleonic Wars
in europe, An ardent abolitionist, a man who opposes the
evil of slavery. He knows a well stocked fort will
help the cause of black liberty. The unnamed fort is
soon nicknamed Negro Fort. It becomes a sanctuary for runaway slaves,

(00:47):
safely located on what is once again Spanish land. The
fort is on the banks of the Appalachicola River that
forms the border between Alabama and Georgia as it runs
south to Florida and the Gulf of Mexico. The land
boasts old grow trees, the kind that are draped in
Spanish moss and stand languidly in the humidity. It's good land.

(01:07):
Hero of the War of eighteen twelve, General Andrew Jackson,
a Southern gentleman and a slave owner, immediately seizes upon
the threat of Negro Fort. Slaves are escaping to Negro Fort,
fleeing from plantations as far away as Virginia and the Carolinas.
Andrew Jackson writes to Washington asking for permission to attack
the fort. He's urged on by Georgia plantation owners. Terrified

(01:29):
of widespread slave revolts. Jackson doesn't wait for permission to
attack the fortress on Spanish land. He sends orders to
Brigadier General Edmund P. Gaines to destroy Negro Fort, burn
it to the ground. There are three thirty people inside
Negro Forward when the United States Army goes to war
against the free people living inside. Two hundred are Black soldiers,

(01:50):
thirty are Seminoles and Choctaw warriors. The other one hundred
people are women and children. Fighting starts on July sixteen.
Naval commanders fire round after round of cannonballs at the court.
Once they gage the distance and range, a quote hot
shot is ordered to be heated up. Meanwhile, the defenders

(02:10):
of the fort attempt to fire back with their cannons.
It's an unfamiliar weapon, their aim isn't true, the shots
aren't nearly as effective. The prepared hot shot is fired
by Navy gunboat number one. Out of all the things
that could hit. The red hot cannonball strikes the fort
storehouse of gunpowder. It explodes with a boom that shakes
the earth. The fireball momentarily outshines the sun. Negro Fort

(02:39):
is destroyed, burned to the ground. Two seventy people die
in the blast. General Gaines records his shock. The explosion
was awful, in the scene horrible beyond description. In an
instant Lifeless bodies were stretched upon the plane, buried in

(03:00):
sand or rubbish, or suspended from the tops of the
surrounding pines. When the Secretary of War John Quincy Adams
is tasked with defending Andrew Jackson's unprompted act of war,
Adams reasons that Jackson's aggression was an active quote self
defense for the young nation. You see free black people
in an armed fortress acting as a beacon for the enslaved,

(03:22):
somewhere real to run away to liberty. There on the
edge of slave society, a place where native tribes and
runaway slaves live in peace. For that to exist is
seen as an active war against the United States of America.
Andrew Jackson's order to destroy Negro Fort would become the
first battle in a series of struggles known as the
Seminole Wars, and it strengthens Andrew Jackson's resolve about free

(03:45):
Negroes and the Indian question. I suggest for your consideration,
the propriety is set in apart an ample district west
of the Mississippi to be guaranteed to the Indian tribes
as long as they shout occupy it, each tribe having
a distinct control over the portion designated for its use.
This immigration should be voluntary, for it would be as

(04:09):
cruel as unjust to compel the Aborigines to abandon the
graves of their fathers and seek a home in a
distant land. That's newly elected President Andrew Jackson giving his
first Annual Address to Congress on December eight eighty nine.
That's also how America sold genocide as a concept as
a bright future a new dream for America's bold steps forward.

(04:32):
Six years earlier, James Monroe laid out the framework for
manifest destiny. Andrew Jackson made it real. His speech was
the initial thrust, an announcement of his plans for the
Indian Removal Act. The law would come into effect the
very next year. The Indian Removal Act of eighteen thirty
was pitched as the best idea of the u s
could come up with at the time. But there was

(04:54):
one man who would prove Andrew Jackson wrong, Chief John Horse.
His people were Seminoles, one of the tribes President Jackson
wanted to remove. His people fought back. History calls their
series of armed struggles the Seminole Wars. Their struggle is
also the largest most successful revolt of formally enslaved people
in the history of America. You see, Chief John Horse

(05:17):
was black, a black Seminal to be exact. He was
known by many names, John Horse, John Caballo, Gopher, John
John Kawaya. His father, Charles Caballo, was a chief of
a band of the Seminole people. Long before the divisive
question of slavery was finally settled in the Civil War,
there were the Seminole Wars three of them, and they
were the largest sustained revolt of formally enslaved people and

(05:41):
their indigenous allies. Out of the Seminole Wars emerged a
handful of legendary figures. On the one side, there was
Andrew Jackson. On the other there were the brave figures
of resistance men such as John Caesar, Abraham Osciola, Wildcat,
and chief among the young generation was John Horse. By
the end of his long life, he would come to

(06:02):
be called the Moses of the Seminoles. He would fight
four and against the U. S. Government, successfully winning his
freedom and land for his people. He is the most
successful freedom fighter You've likely never heard of, Chief John Horse,
the Black Liberator. Yeah, this is a home. It's been

(06:24):
a long road for us. We'd take an ownership over
everything else to us, realty. We surrounded by our heritage
are fisked up because we tried to be American. I'm
Zarin Burnett. Welcome to Black Cowboys and My Heart original podcast.
Cowboy asked himself what's really in a name? Sitting on

(06:46):
a Mustang Friday through the place Buffalo, So to the
King of the Rains, we a love with the Cowboy Way,
Chapter five, Chief John Horse, The Moses of the Black Seminoles.

(07:11):
When John Horse is born, Florida is still part of
the Spanish Empire. His family lives Neo latoa savannah that
stretches to the west of St. Augustine. The United States
is only thirty six years old, but the thing is
John Horse is born in a time of war over
in Europe. Emperor Napoleon is battling against the Spanish, bleeding
the nations of treasure in a generation of soldiers. The

(07:34):
Spanish focus turns away from the New World, taking advantage
of this moment of Spanish weakness and distraction. On January eleven,
the US Congress holds a secret vote. Congress authorizes President
James Madison to annex the Spanish Florida territories, but it's
contingent on timing. Spain may be distracted, but Madison doesn't

(07:56):
want to aggravate the Spanish and trigger an international conflict.
The young nation of America is already edging into a
war with its former colonial power, Great Britain. The rumors
of war soon turned into fact. In June of eighteen twelve,
the U s declares war against Great Britain. It's fittingly
called the War of eighteen twelve. Although it will last

(08:17):
for three years, the war against the British and the
US campaign to annex Florida bleed together. They become one
inseparable fight for the future of America. Or so the
American government sees it, there is another international fighting force
that will also change the future shape of America, formally
enslaved African people from the Carolinas and Georgia living alongside

(08:42):
the seminole in Spanish Florida. The persistent fear of slave
revolts lives inside the hearts and minds of all Georgian
and Carolinian slave owners. The Haitian Revolution occurred just a
decade earlier, ending in eighteen o four. The southern plantation
owners are still convinced the same can happen in America
at any minute. To stoke those fears and uncertainty, Spain

(09:05):
offers freedom to any black person who escapes slavery and
runs away to Florida and is willing to fight for Spain.
It's a cunning move. It deprives plantations of the labor
needed to power the slave economy. Plus it breeds natural unrest.
Governor Mitchell of Georgia identifies this threat, writing that the
Spanish governor has proclaimed freedom to every negro who will

(09:28):
join his standard. Indeed, the principal strength of St. Augustine
consists of negroes. Starting in seven, the Spanish first offered
freedom and land to any enslaved person who threw off
the yoke of their bondage and escaped to La Florida.
The move was originally to undermine the English in the
Carolina territory. It serves the same purpose nearly a century

(09:49):
and a half later, to undermine America's slave society. How
much is the Haitian Revolution and this fear of a
slavery volte play into Andrew Jackson's rise to power. I
think that it played into it a lot. One of

(10:09):
the things they did not want to have was they
didn't want anybody enslaved to be aware of the existence
of free black people. They didn't want them to think
that was possible. So hating by becoming a free country
instantly disproved that theory. Florida could not be allowed to
exist because that was further disproving the theory. In addition

(10:32):
to them giving them freedom, they were free people. They
weren't just runaway slaves there, you know, as you know
they have been. That's just the hundreds they have been
Black people left with the Spanish. They had roles in society,
they had had communities. So the Georgia plantation people who
are telling their slayers that you basically animals, cannot have

(10:53):
something that disproves them that close, and it shows how
close escape is. However, slavery still exists in Spanish Florida, namely,
the seminal nation keeps black slaves. Unlike plantation slavery, the
newly freed black people who live among the Seminole are

(11:14):
allowed to live in their own communities, to marry and
live as families. They contend cattle, plant farmland, and live
self determined lives. The black Seminoles, as they'll come to
be called, they must give the proceeds of one of
their fields as tribute to their owners. The arrangement is
much more akin to feudal landlords and surfs. It wasn't

(11:37):
freedom exactly, but it was the best deal available to
the runaway slaves and other freedmen, and the Seminoles. Following
the European lead, had continued to call them slaves, but
only to bolster their own wealth. Living side by side,
the Seminole and the Black seminals begin to enter, marry
and produce children, which only further complicates any traditional American

(11:58):
notions of slavery. The indigenous Seminoles were committed to their
values of freedom, and without hesitation, would fight alongside the
fugitive slaves. Soon enough, hundreds of enslaved people would steal
away for freedom and join the Seminole nation. You could
say the first underground railroad ran south to La Florida.

(12:19):
Those who wanted to live free and those who wanted
to enslave others for profit and power were on a
crash course. It was unavoidable. Their fight would take many forms.
This is the world. John Horse is born into raised
on Spanish land among the Seminal nation. His father a seminole,
his mother an escaped slave. By the law of his tribe,

(12:41):
he is not a seminole, but he's considered instead quote
the property of his father, and thus he is a
black Seminole. When you were in school, did you learn
about the Black seminals? Did you learn about the seminal Wars?
Were that mentioned at all? In history? Class. I don't
remember being mentioned at all. I had read en when
we were in Meville, Canstylvania. House we rented was had

(13:01):
been a nunnery and they had a huge library. In
their library, they had all kinds of books that I
had never seen. That they had three books about the
Seminole Wars. And that's that's when I first read about.
It's March of eighteen eighteen. The hero of the War
of eighteen twelve, Andrew Jackson leads two regiments of mounted

(13:24):
soldiers into Spanish Florida and he builds a fort. As
long as enslaved people have a hope of freedom on
the border of America, the Seminole are a direct threat
to plantation society. Andrew Jackson aims to snuff out that threat.
John Horse is just five or six years old when
he and his family crossed the Swannee River, chased by

(13:45):
a combined force of Jackson's two regiments, militia members, volunteers,
and a band of Lower Creek Indians who are loyal
to the cause of plantation slavery. By the time Andrew
Jackson's men arrived at the banks of the Swanee River,
all most all the black seminoles have made it across
the river, but many feet are still wet. Having barely

(14:06):
made it to safety. In May, Andrew Jackson turns his
attentions and marches west for Pensacola. Without orders to do so,
he crosses deeper into Spanish territory. He goes to war
against Spain. His forces overcome a much weaker Spanish detachment
left to guard at garrison. The Spanish ford at Pensacola
is easily taken. The Spanish commander surrenders. Andrew Jackson's unauthorized

(14:31):
attack nearly starts the very World War that Madison feared.
International conflict is only averted when in February of the
next year, Spain decides not to retaliate with warfare and violence. Instead,
Spain chooses to sell the territory of Florida to the
United States as a reward for his conquest. Andrew Jackson

(14:52):
is named the first governor of Florida. It's a role
he resents and quickly resigns from he seeks a higher office.
In eighteen nineteen, John Horses, now seven years old, and
without moving, he now lives in America. His family settles
near present day Tampa Bay, It's the same place where
centuries earlier Estebon the Negro first set foot on what

(15:14):
would become American soil. Within a little more than a decade,
John Horse will come to be known as a great
warrior and one of the bravest war chiefs of the
Seminole nation, since he fought in the Revolutionary War as
a boy. Some historians like to describe Andrew Jackson as

(15:36):
the last Founding Father. He's not. It's more accurate to
say Andrew Jackson is the end of the Revolutionary era
and that he abandons the Founding Father's guiding spirit for
the country. There are whispers that he will become an
American Napoleon. When Andrew Jackson is elected. The brash and
arrogant military man has a bold vision for the nation.

(15:57):
He sets into motion events that will put America on
is to become a world power. But first he must
remove the Indians and end the threat to slavery that
is the Seminole nation. To do that, Andrew Jackson will
have to go up against John Horse. On February, President
Andrew Jackson writes a letter to the Seminoles, my children,

(16:21):
I am sorry to have heard that you have been
listening to bad counsel. You know me, and you know
that I would not deceive nor advise you to do
anything that was unjust or injuries. Open your ears and
attend to what I shall now say to you. They
are the words of a friend and the words of truth.

(16:45):
The white people are settling around you. The game has
disappeared from your country. Your people are poor and hungry.
All this you have perceived for some time. My children,
I have never deceived, nor will I ever deceive, any
of the red people. I tell you that you must go,

(17:06):
and that you will go. You will soon be in
a state of starvation. You will commit depredations upon the
property of our citizens. You will be resisted, punished, and
perhaps killed. If therefore you had a right to stay
where you now are still, every true friend would advise

(17:28):
you to remove. But you have no right to stay,
and you must go. If you listen to the voice
of friendship and truth, you will go quietly and voluntarily.
But should you listen to the bad birds that are
always flying about you and refuse to move, I have
then directed the commanding officer to remove you by force.

(17:51):
This will be done. I pray the Great Spirit therefore
to incline you to do what is right your friend,
Andrew Jackson. The President's open threat is easy to translate.
President Jackson's no more a friend than a coiled snake is,

(18:14):
and the bad birds are likely the Black Freedman. Negotiations
are tense. They stretch out over months. At one point,
Seminal chief Osceola reportedly draws a knife and stabs it
through the proposed treaty, burying his knife deep into the table,
and says, the only treaty I will ever execute will
be this. Other chiefs from the Seminal Nation aren't so militant.

(18:39):
They eventually signed a treaty. The next year, on January six,
the US orders the Seminal Nation to evacuate Florida. Any
tribe member who refuses the order will be hunted down
like wild animals and likely shot. Thus begins the Second
Seminole War. There was a moment there in history where

(19:00):
in Florida ostensibly could have become a majority Native and
Black state, uh possibly even a Republican nation on the
edge of America. Can you imagine if Florida had been
developed as a majority Native in black state. Yeah, sure can,
and I think I think it would have been absorbed
into this country as a native as the native in
Black State, just like New Orleans a native in Black

(19:25):
City State. There were communities over a thousand people in
North Florida where Amelia Island is now and Saint August Team.
There were many indulges and settlements along the shoreline and
then along the Georgia border. They were stationary. They weren't
moving around like nomads. They were these were These were

(19:47):
the developed communities with hierarchies and defense contentions. Uncle Herbert
went to Florida every year with two buses of migrant
workers that he would pick up there and then followed
the season up north and then back south every year.
So to us, Florida was just where he started his
work every year, and then nobody ever went to Florida.

(20:07):
The first time I went to Florida, uh Zarin was
two years old. We always looked at Florida as two
different states. Everything above Orlando is South Georgia, everything below
Orlando is Florida, and the people were different. The Panhandle
around to Okalla is agricultural, horse farms and all that.
And then as you get to the shore you have
the resorts that's the different population of people, but we

(20:30):
didn't like any of it because it was all segregated.
The year is eighteen thirty seven. The Second Seminar War
is raging. After he hears word his father has been captured,
the young Seminal War Chief Wildcat rides to the old
Spanish fortress at St. Augustine to speak with the U. S.

(20:52):
Army garrison. There. At his side is his friend, the
equally young, twenty five year old Black Seminal War Chief
John Horse. The men on horseback approach under a white
flag of truce. Wildcat is wary of the American military.
He refuses to ride into the fortress. Instead, he sends
John Horse into parley with the U. S. Army commander,

(21:13):
Brigadier General Hernandez. John Horace is often asked to speak
on behalf of the Seminal Nation. As an interpreter, John
Horace conveys Wildcat's message. On October twenty one, General Hernandez,
General Jessup, and his officers sit down to talk Indian
removal with a delegation of chiefs from the Seminal Nation
led by Ossiola. John Horse is there, representing the Black

(21:35):
Seminals and acting as an interpreter for the seminal chiefs.
The treaty talks begin pleasantly enough, right up until General
Hernandez asks the seminal leaders why the seminals have not
turned over the Black Seminals to the army as fugitive slaves.
This was not part of the agreement, not as far
as Wildcat is concerned. Before the seminal leadership can object

(21:57):
to the question, more than two armed soldiers and Florida
Militia volunteers surround the Seminole leadership. Weapons are drawn inside
or outside the fortress. The result is the same. The
US betrays the flag of truce. The army officers arrest

(22:21):
the seminal leadership. Wildcat, known as the Napoleon of the Seminoles,
has rarely ever been captured. To have him in chains
along with the revered chief Osceola and the Black Seminal
leader John Horace, along with twenty other chiefs and warriors,
it's deemed a great day for the U. S Army
in Florida. The captured men are herded together into Castillo

(22:44):
de San Marcos, the former Spanish fortress in St. Augustine.
The cell with the men are kept is eighteen feet
by thirty three feet. A single shaft of light illuminates
the prison cell. A delegation from the Cherokee Nation in
Georgia is brought in to convinced the seminal of the
futility of their fight to stay in Florida. The tribesman

(23:05):
speak and Osceola expresses to them that he is tired
of war. His statement may be true, or it may
be a way to buy the seminole time. You see,
they have an escape plane underway. A few weeks later,
on November seven, the captured seminal leaders attempt to break

(23:26):
out of the former Spanish fortress. It's a seemingly impossible task.
There's just the one window, fifteen feet high up the wall.
Inside of the window are two iron bars. Somehow, the
captured Seminoles work one of the bars loose. The captives
have been given canvas sacks to sleep on. They cut
up the sacks and fashion them into ropes. Now imagine

(23:51):
a warrior wildcat climbing up the fortress wall, fingers stuck
into whatever grooves or ledges exist. He stands on the
handle of a night wedged into the wall. He manages
to climb up to the window. Between his teeth is
the rope made from the sacks. He ties it to
the remaining iron bar in the window. The opening is

(24:13):
now about eight inches wide, roughly the size of a
large man's hand. The fortress exterior wall is at least
a twenty ft drop. There's a patch of mud and
soft grass though for them to land in. One by one,
the captured Seminoles and Black Seminals climb up the rope,
squeezed through the window, and dropped down to freedom. They're naked,

(24:35):
scratched up and bleeding from forcing their bodies through an
eight inch hole, but they're free. Twenty captives escaped the
fortress prison, led by John Horse and Wildcat Chief Asciola
has grown ill in prison. He stays behind in the cell,
unable to make the escape. A future US President, Zachary Taylor,

(24:58):
is a colonel at the time. He's soon pointed the
new commander of forces in the Florida campaign. He takes
over for an injured General Jessip Zachary Taylor gets right
to work. He plans to offers combatants one last chance
to give up and go peacefully, or he will take
the fight to the Indians. He sends messengers urging all
Seminals to return to the fortress at St. Augustine for

(25:18):
removal to Indian Territory. When the Seminals and Black Seminals,
led by John Horse and Wildcat, refused to trust the U. S.
Army once again, Colonel Zachary Taylor prepares for all at war.
On December twenty, he marches at the head of an
army of a thousand men. He will force the Seminal

(25:38):
to leave Florida at gunpoint. Colonel Zachary Taylor's army is
lured into an ambush by the United Seminal and Black
Seminal warriors, who have selected a battle ground of their picking. Naturally,
it's a swamp, which favors their guerrilla tactics. The Seminal
warriors lie in wait in the tall swaying saw grass.

(25:59):
They don't waste bullets on lowly soldiers or militia volunteers.
Once Taylor's troops draw within range of the Seminal rifles,
the sharpshooter warriors aim exclusively at the officers. Their surprise
attack is sprung. A colonel is shot dead, his son,
a sergeant major falls wounded, A captain and two lieutenants

(26:20):
are shot down. Three other officers are hit. Then the
Seminole melt away back into the swamp. They take up
new positions, and they hold them. They draw Taylor's men
further into the mire of swamp. They repeat their tactic
once again, firing at the officers. After a few hours,
in the face of overwhelming exchanges of gunfire, the Seminal

(26:42):
warriors retreat fully into the swamps. Colonel Zachary Taylor considers
his offensive of victory, but the ratio of killed and
wounded tells a different story. For every one Seminal warrior,
Indian or Black, killed or wounded, Taylor has lost nearly
seven of his soldiers. The Second Seminal War will last

(27:03):
for another four years. By early a few months after
Wildcat and John Horace escape from the Spanish Fortress prison,
the US is eager to find a cheap exit from
the nation's spiraling Second Seminole War. The US decides the

(27:23):
best way to do that is to cut their losses.
Let the Black Seminoles like John Horace and his family
become free, Let them migrate with the Seminal nation to
Indian territory. Clear them all out at once. General Jessup,
in charge of the Florida military campaign, issues in order
one that will be cited many times in the future.
He says that all the black tribes people who were

(27:45):
the property of the Seminal Indians in Florida, who separated
themselves from the Indians and delivered themselves up to the
commanding officer of the troops, should be free. They should
be sent to the West as part of the Seminal
nation and be settled in a separate village under the
protection of the United States. This ultimately is a divide
and conquer strategy. It relies on the fact that the
Black Seminoles and the Seminoles have different definitions of victory

(28:08):
in their war against the United States. One of the
Black Seminal leader is a man named Abraham, writes to
General Jesseph after the issue of his field order, we
will go with the Indians to our new home and
wish to know how we are to be protected and
who is to have the care of us on the road.
We do not live for ourselves only, but for our

(28:30):
wives and children, who are as dear to us, and
those of any other men. All the black people are
contented hope ps John Caballo is in and contented glad
to hear of the peace. John Horse a k a.
John Caballo indeed recognizes that his people will get no
better offer from the United States of America than freedom

(28:52):
and land in the Indian Territory. He agrees to lead
his people out of Florida. A year after getting settled
in Indian Territory, John Horse requests to return to Florida
to gather up his family who have yet to migrate.

(29:14):
It works out that the US government has a need
for his talents. John Horse is allowed to return to
Florida as an interpreter and a guide for the U. S. Army.
General Walker k Armistead request, John Horse convinced his old
friend and comrade Wildcat to set down his weapons, cease fighting,
and safely migrate to Indian Territory. Wildcat isn't so willing

(29:36):
to leave the land that so many of his tribesmen
have died for a march on, Wildcat, known in his
native tongue as Koakuchee, rides into camp with his loyal
band of warriors by his side in order to impress
the U. S. Army commanders that he understands the ways
of the white men. Wildcat shows up in his finest threads.

(29:57):
He and his warriors where perlind Shakes ay in costumes
to the meeting, having recently attacked a theatrical troop near
Saint Augustine and appropriated their wardrobe. The Indian delegation was
enabled to appear on Grantennu. According to military historian Theophilis
rotten Bow, they were dressed in stolen Shakespearean costumes. Kokuchie

(30:19):
had donned the nodding plumes of the Prince of Denmark
at his elbow, appeared with an evident sense of the
fitness of things Horatio, and close behind came another proud
monarch of the forest, wrapped in King Richard's robes, which
were not unbecoming the wear and would have been imposing
had not a keen sense of the ludicrous strongly tempted
some of the spectators to unseemly levity, which was repressed

(30:41):
with an effort and in the interest of diplomacy, and
so dressed as Hamlet seminole war chief, Wildcat negotiates for
peace with the U S Army. To be or not
to be that truly is Wildcat's existential question. In his

(31:04):
talks with the U. S. Military, Wildcat promises that he
will stop fighting, that he will round up his people.
Once together, they will accept removal to the Indian Territory.
But then Wildcat takes his time leaving Florida. He keeps
promising he'll gather up more people. He asks for rations
and for whiskey. When he comes back weeks later empty handed,

(31:26):
the U. S. Army officers grow suspicious that Wildcat is
up to his old tricks, stalling, stalking up supplies, and
planning to escape again into the Florida swamps. A young
William To comes to Sherman is ordered to find and
arrest Wildcat. True to his later shows of efficiency when

(31:46):
he burns a wide path through Georgia during the Civil War,
Sherman handles his business. He finds Wildcat. He captures them,
along with his brother, his uncle, thirteen warriors, and three blackminals.
Wildcat is manacled and irons, loaded on a wagon and
then shipped to New Orleans, where he is to be

(32:07):
transferred to a river boat and headed up north to
Indian Territory. But a new military authority, Colonel W. J. Worth,
takes over the Florida campaign. He has a progressive plan
to clear all the Natives out of Florida. He believes
he can convince the holdouts to go and that he
can get Wildcat to do it for him. In fact,

(32:29):
he firmly believes he needs the Seminole leader to help
him if he has any hope of ending the long
and costly war. When Colonel Worth here's an army report
that Wildcat has been captured, He's elated, But then he
hears a Wildcat he's currently in route from Tampa Bay
to New Orleans. This ruins Colonel Worth's plans to leverage

(32:50):
the charismatic leader to work for him. He orders Wildcat
to be returned to Florida at once. On the fourth
of July, Colonel W. J. Worth meets Wildcats transport ship
in Tampa Bay. With him, he brings John Horse as
his interpreter. John Horse is reunited aboard ship with his
old war comrade, Wildcat, the now freed black man working

(33:11):
as a guide an interpreter for the U. S. Army,
is in an odd position what looks to be betrayal.
Wildcat seemingly understands he knows what's at stake for his
old friend and his people. When Colonel Worth speaks first,
John Horace translates his words into Seminole for Wildcat, and
thus he ends up speaking aloud both sides of one

(33:32):
of the most moving exchanges in American history. I take
you by the hand as a warrior, a brave man.
You have fought long and with a true and strong
heart for your country. I take your hand with feelings
of pride. You love your country as we do. It
is sacred to you, the ashes of your kindred or

(33:55):
dar to you and to the seminals. These feelings have
caused much blood, at distress and horrid murders in his time.
Now the Indian felt the power of the strength of
the white man. Like the oak, you may bear up
many years against strong winds. When the time has come,

(34:15):
when it will fall. That time has arrived, Gukkuchi. I'm
your friend, so is your great father in Washington. What
I say to you is true. My word is for
the happiness of the red man. After the military officer
has done speaking, John Horse turns his attention to his
old friend. John Horse faithfully translates Wildcat's response, I was

(34:43):
once a boy then I saw the white man afar off.
I hunted in these woods, first with a bow and arrow,
then with a rifle. I saw the white man and
was told he was my enemy. I could not shoot
him as I would a wolf or a bear. Yet
like them, he came upon me horses, cattle, and fields.

(35:05):
He took them from me. He said he was my friend.
He abused our women and children, and told us to
go from the land. Still, he gave me his hand
in friendship. We took it. Whilst taking he had a
snake in the other. His tongue was forked. He lied
and stung us. I asked but for a small piece

(35:27):
of these lands, enough to plant and to live upon
far south spot, where I could lay the ashes of
my kindred. This was not granted to me. I was
put in prison. I escaped. I have again been taken.
You have brought me back. I am here. I feel
the irons in my heart. In the moment shortly after

(35:54):
John Horace finishes translating Wildcat's words, a nearby government vessel,
a navy ship sitting at anchor in the harbor, fires
off its guns. It's to celebrate freedom and independence. It's
a salute for the fourth of July. It's quite a
moment in American history. But the fact that this occurs
on the fourth of July and here they are freemen

(36:14):
arguing for their independence, it seems like this irony is
just lost on the Americans. The two of them, those
two guys were focused on being free, on taking their
people to freedom. So the decision they were always making
was never a short term, short track decision. It was
always how is this going to serve us in our
pursuit of a place to live where we can be

(36:35):
left alone, where we can be free. And you can
see exactly why you made the decision you made and
why wild Cat would understand it. I had mixed feelings
about the position they were taking because I admired the
fact that they weren't going to go you know, that
they were going to keep their land in South Florida.
But of course that wasn't prudent, that that couldn't work.
How did you feel about it? Well, it's a complicated

(36:57):
moment because John Horst has decided to basically do the
math and say to himself, it's safer and more likely
for me my family to do well in the future
if we align ourselves with the US government and the
best position for me to become then is an interpreter
in the Guide. And then his after making that choice,
the difficult choice after fighting against the U. S. Army,
when he comes back to meet Wildcat, his former comrade,

(37:19):
there has to be that moment of betrayal. For the
next year, John Horse and Wildcat work for the U. S. Army,
convincing all remaining Natives in Florida to peacefully relocate to
Indian Territory as a reward for his service. On February two, Worth,
now General Worth, reconfirms John Horse's prior agreements with General's

(37:41):
Jesseph and Zachary Taylor that John Horse is a freeman.
By that following summer, John Horse is now ready to
travel back to Indian Territory. He's free, and he has
land promised to him, located in the Seminole Nation. On
July two, John Us and his family board a ship

(38:01):
headed west out of Tampa Bay. One month later, on
August two, the Second Seminole War is declared officially over.
General Jessup once correctly called the Second Seminole War what
it had turned out to be. He had warned. This
is quote a Negro War not an Indian war. Accepting

(38:22):
the truth of his statement is key to their victory.
Once the US offers freedom and land to the Black Seminoles,
the war is effectively over. Their native allies can't maintain
the war without John Horse and the other Black Seminoles.
During the summer of eighteen forty two, John Horace makes
it to New Orleans with his wife, Susan, and their child. Later,

(38:44):
they all chug along on a steamboat as it charges
slowly up the Mississippi River and on up to the
Arkansas River. Low water in the Arkansas River forces John
Horace and his family to depart the river boat and
continue overland. Finally, on September six, eighteen forty two, the
family reaches the end of the line Fort Smith, the
edge of Indian Territory, that same land where Bass Reeves

(39:08):
would one day become the Law and Cherokee Bill, It's
most famous outlaw. At the moment, that's all in the future.
In eighteen forty two, the Indian Territory is still a
new idea for the nation, and it's sparsely populated, which
means it doesn't take long for John Horace to find
Wildcat and other bands of Seminoles. There are roughly eleven

(39:30):
hundred Seminole people camping outside of Fort Gibson at the
edge of the Cherokee Nation. The Cherokee are more welcoming
to the Seminole than their own people are. The Creek
Now living in Indian Territory, the Seminoles are once again
considered a restored part of the Creek Nation. There's one
big problem with that. It's eight forty two. The Creek

(39:50):
Nation operates as a plantation society. The tribe looks at
the Black Seminoles as a new slave population for them
to claim and to exploit. To make sure can't be
re enslaved. John Horse asks the Seminal Nation to confirm
that he is free according to the tribal laws. In
July forty three, the Seminal Council affirms his father, Charles

(40:12):
Caballo's will, thus freeing John Horse under Seminal law. He
is now officially free in the eyes of the United
States and the Seminal Nation. But this only protects John Horse,
it doesn't protect all the other Black Seminoles. Wildcat understands
this threat to the Black Seminals who followed John Horse
to Indian Territory, the Black Seminals must rely on the

(40:35):
Cherokee for protection from their own creek. Kin Wildcat doesn't
like living under the creek either. He wants land that's
solely for the Seminoles, where his tribe and the Black
Seminals can live side by side again and in peace.
When the Seminal chiefs meet in council, Wildcat wins them
over to his new plan. The chiefs decide to send

(40:59):
a deli gation to Washington to demand federal land of
their own. John Horse is around thirty two years old
in May of eighteen forty four when he and Wildcats

(41:21):
step onto the streets of Washington, d c. They can't
go directly to the White House to visit their great
father in Washington. Instead, John Horse and Wildcat meet with
a man they trust in respect, General Jessup. Their old
military enemy, is also the same man who had first
offered freedom and land to John Horse if he convinced

(41:42):
the Black Seminals to lay down their arms and stop fighting.
When he hears of the mistreatment of the Black Seminoles
in Indian Territory, he's disappointed to learn that the United
States hasn't kept its end of their bargain. He invites
John Horse and Wildcat to his home for dinner. The
three men discussed the dire situation in an Indian territory
and what can be done. On January four, the Seminal

(42:06):
Nation is finally granted land of their own. However, the
land they're awarded is inside the Creek Nation, and thus
the Seminoles are still bound under Creek law. This means
slave coats and plantation society. This is unacceptable to John Horse.
He plans to return to Washington and argue for a
true Seminal nation, one where he and Wildcats people can
live side by side and in peace. He travels east

(42:29):
to argue for his people. Once he reaches Washington, John
Horse contacts his friend and advocate, General Jessup. His old
foe turned friend, takes him to speak with President James K. Polk.
The two leaders talk candidly about the future of the
Seminal Nation. John Horace presents a statement about the eighteen
black Seminals who have been captured and sold by slave catchers.

(42:49):
Three generations of one family, a grandmother, mother, and grandchild.
He notes were all sold for the price of five
barrels of Whiskey. John Horace reports the President polpe A
cures him that the black seminals will be treated the
same as the other seminoles. On April eighty six, General
Jessup writes to Fort Gibson, updating the military on the
status of John Horse's diplomacy mission in Washington. John Cowie

(43:13):
needs to return to his family, leaving the business of
himself and his people in my hands. The case of
the Seminal Negros is now before the President. To ensure
safe passage home for his friend, General Jessup writes up
a pass for John Horace to carry while he travels,
since he'll have to cross through southern states before he
gets home. Such was travel for a black statesman in

(43:34):
eight John Horace does make it home safely, but things, however,
don't go as smoothly as promised. While he's in Washington
speaking with the President, John Horse loses two family members
to a slave catcher. Two of his sister's children are grabbed,
never to be seen again. John Horse begins to regret

(43:56):
the move to Indian territory. He pleads with the US
government that his people be allowed to emigrate back to
Florida or be sent anywhere else. A man named Lieutenant
Loomis later recommends Africa. Liberia is mentioned as an option,
although he is a black seminole who has only ever
lived in native communities. John Horace accepts the offer of

(44:17):
being shipped to Africa, that is, if Lieutenant Loomis, working
as an official of the US government, can arrange it.
He cannot. In the spring of eighteen forty eight, John
Horace gets further disturbed by the result of a local
court case. A slave catching ring run by a Cherokee
woman is busted. The judge in the case sides with
slave catchers. After the judge is ruling, John Horace writes

(44:40):
to his friend General Jessup, the other day, three of
our people were stolen, and more than a month has
passed and have not yet been recovered. One of the
principles in this theft has been placed before the law,
and from some cause or the other, she has been
let go. Some say there is no law against stealing negroes.
Things only grew worse in eighteen four eight. That's when

(45:01):
U S Attorney General John Mason determines that black seminoles
are negroes and negroes in America in eight aren't free.
They are fit to be slaves. Case closed, hunting season open.
The Great Father in Washington has once again betrayed his word.
John Horse knows he can't keep fighting for freedom inside

(45:24):
of America. It's time to fight his way out of America.
His old friend Wildcat agrees America is no place for
a freeman to find a good life. They plan to
ride south from Mexico with hundreds of other Seminoles. In
eighteen twenty nine, Mexico outlawed slavery. That was thanks to
their black and indigenous president, Vicente Guerrero. Just as the

(45:46):
black Seminoles had once escaped south to Spanish Florida to
be free, they now escape south to Mexico for the
same reason. In July, after months of migrating their hundreds
of people south, just before they can make it to
the border. While they're still in exist, they cross path
with the US Army wagon train at the command as
an old foe from the Second Seminole War, Major John T. Sprague.

(46:09):
When John Horse learns of this, he and Wildcat ride
over to speak with their old enemy to talk about
the good old days back in Florida. Their meeting is friendly.
The men open a bottle of whiskey and don't ever
put the cap back on. They get good and drunk
as the old stories get shared, all is convivial and friendly,
or so it seems. The next morning, a Mexican captive

(46:32):
held by the U. S Army warns John Horse and
Wildcat that while they were getting drunk with the Major,
he heard other soldiers laughing about how there is a
regiment coming to grab the Seminole Blacks and enslave them,
and then they also plan to detain the natives and
take them back to the Creek Nation. John Horse and
Wildcat don't stick around to confront the Major about his betrayal.

(46:52):
Too many people are counting on them. Together, the Seminole
and the Black Seminal leader ride hard for the Mexican border.
To throw off the arm me chasing them down, they
split up into two groups. They travel like this for
two days. Every day they fear that they will be caught.
Each night, when they camp, they pray they aren't ambushed
in their sleep. Finally, at a place called Eagle Past, Texas,

(47:15):
they spy the Rio Grande River, that wet and shifting
border between Mexico and the United States. At dark, the
Seminoles and Black Seminals ford the river and attempt to
cross to safety on the other side. And so on
July twelve fifty, roughly three hundred people ferry themselves across

(47:36):
the Rio Grande. They use homemade rafts that they construct
there at the river's edge. They float their way to freedom.
Just at daybreak, as the last raft was crossing, the
water wasn't dry on the feet of their horses. They
sell the troop on the opposite bank of the river.
The soldiers standing on the U. S side of the
river border shouted at their fleeing prey as well. The U.

(47:57):
S soldiers waved red handkerchiefs and called them at come back. Yeah,
we'll come back, all right, the warriors shouted in reply,
but we'll come back to fight. Once they're safely in Mexico,
the Seminoles and the Black Seminals are welcomed with open arms.
They eat well for the first time in a long time,
they've survived America. They are finally free, and they have

(48:19):
land of their own. John Horse has this nickname. He's
known as the Black Moses of the Seminoles. What do
you think of that? As a nickname for him. Do
you think it fits? I think it's entirely appropriate. He
was a single mindedly focused on freedom as anybody I've
ever seen, and and he didn't let anything distract him
from his from his purpose, and he wasn't selfish about it.

(48:41):
He was trying to get you know, him and all
the people around him free, and he was relentless in
his pursuit of it. There's a conversation that we haven't
had yet and likely isn't typically brought up, but just basically, uh,
why John Horse can't be talked in American public education?
You don't ever hear about these stories because the shame

(49:04):
would be on America. This whole thing is fucked up.
Let's let's let's stop where we are right and acknowledge
that the history we've been telling ourselves it's not the
true history of us. The true history is even better.
The real history of America is so much better. If
people knew about John Horse, if black kids were raised
up knowing about him, they would feel better about themselves.

(49:26):
If white kids were raised up hearing about him, they
would feel better about black people. You know that, It's
like because you you would become aware more of what's happened.
When you hear the truth then as opposed to what
somebody has just made up, and it's always I think,
I don't think there's any way around the truth if
you're trying to correct something. He had to address the

(49:47):
truth of the matter and then come up with a
strategy for making that hold. John Horse did it, and
he made it last. John Horst lives out the rest
of his days mostly done in Mexico. Both he and
Wildcat dared to continue to crisscross the Texas Mexico border

(50:07):
for commerce and for a good time. Slave catchers on
the Texas side patrol the border lands. Worse are the
slave raiders who crossed the border to snatch people from
Mexican soil and sell them into slavery in America. Despite
living in a foreign country, the black seminoles can never
feel safe and truly free until the Civil War is
fought and slavery dies away as an institution. John Horse's

(50:30):
most faithful friend and ally, Wildcat, dies from a smallpox epidemic,
one that sweeps through their two communities. As we all
now know, an epidemic is a wicked shock and can
claim lives with a horrifying quickness. John Horse learns this
same lesson, yet he survives the epidemic. He spends his
declining years ensuring that his people keep in the lands

(50:53):
that he and Wildcat fought so tirelessly it is to win. Finally,
in eighty one, John Horace takes his last ride. He
does it in service of his people. John Horace saddles
up his horse, which, for his own reasons, he's named American.
He's a surprising patriot, but perhaps he feels he's earned
the right to claim that name, and so he rides south.

(51:14):
He heads off to Mexico City. He plans to meet
with the President, only he's never to be seen again.
He passes away somewhere on that last trail. John Horace
fought for decades for his freedom. Countless times in his life,
he lost and regained it over and over again. But
through his tenacity and his unwillingness to give in or

(51:34):
give up, he fought in one freedom and land for
him and his people. Today, if you travel to the
community at Naciamiento in Mexico, you can find the descendants
of the Black Seminal people who fled slavery in America.
They're still living there, speaking Spanish, maintaining the customs of
the Seminole nation as well as their black ancestors of
the Gulagichi people for the Carolinas. John Horace was born

(51:59):
into the largest six sessful revolt of enslaved people in
American history. He partnered with wildcats outlast the agendas of
the U. S Military and to win a nation for
their people's one family living in two homes. John Horse
was known to say every child is my child, all
children and old people are my own children and my

(52:19):
own parents. He said those words, but more importantly, he
lived those words, was willing to die for those words
for his people. He was the Moses of the Black Seminoles.
Thanks for listening. Black Cowboys is written by me Zaron Burnett,

(52:40):
produced and edited by Ryan Murdoch and Michelle Lands. Our
theme song is written and performed by Demeanor. Sound design
and music by Jeremy Thal, Additional music by Alvin Young
Blood Heart, Greg Chidzick and Nathan Cosey. Research in fact
checking by Austin Thompson, Marissa Brown, Jocelyn Sears, and Aaron Blake.
Performances by j Charlesworth, Frank Nemick and Ryan Murdoch. Show

(53:05):
logo by Lucy Quintindian Executive producers are Jason English and
Manguesh Particket Special thanks as always to my pop. Yeah,
this's a home. It's been a long road for us.
We taken ownership over everything else to us realty. We
surrounded by our heritage, are fist up because we're proud
to be American. Caboy Cowboy act itself was really in

(53:37):
the name, sitting on a mus stand Friday through the place,
but below so did the King Little Range. We in
love with the cowboy way.