March 26, 2025 • 23 mins
Black Pastor John Amanchukwu opposes DEI and recently appeared in front of Texas law makers to share his position. Ramses Ja and Q Ward offer their reactions to his Texas address .
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
This is the Black Information Network Daily Podcast, and I'm
your host, ramses Jah. And sometimes the amount of stories
that make their way to us means that we simply
can't cover.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Everything that comes our way.
Speaker 1 (00:13):
But from time to time, a story just stays with me,
and Bill compelled to share it with you and give
you my thoughts. And now one more thing, Okay, on
this episode of one more Thing, we are going to
do as our great leader has instructed us. Shout out
(00:36):
to Chris Thompson. He sent us over a video. The
video is entitled black Pastor exposes the real.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
Problem with DEI programs.
Speaker 3 (00:48):
HM.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
This man's name is John.
Speaker 3 (00:53):
A.
Speaker 1 (00:54):
Manchuku Wu. If I'm not mistaken, and we're going to
take a.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
List to what he has to say.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
We're going to share that with you, of course, and
then we're going to respond to it. So without further ado,
here you go.
Speaker 4 (01:12):
I'm John Amanchruku, and I wish that Senator Royce West
would be here at this moment to hear first and
foremost that there are black people in this country who
are against DEI a contrary to popular opinion.
Speaker 3 (01:26):
In nineteen eleven, Booker T. Washington wrote these words.
Speaker 4 (01:28):
He says, there's a class of colored people who make
a business of keeping the troubles, the wrongs, and the
hardships of the Negro race before the public. Having learned
that they are able to make a living out of
their troubles, they have grown into the settled habit of
advertising their wrongs, partly because they want sympathy and partly
because it pays. Some of these people do not want
(01:48):
the Negro to lose his grievances because they do not
want to lose their jobs. The question today is what
is the fruit of Dei? Has it fostered you unity
in school districts in Texas?
Speaker 5 (02:02):
No?
Speaker 3 (02:03):
Has it improved reading scores in Texas?
Speaker 2 (02:06):
No?
Speaker 3 (02:07):
Has it improved math scores in Texas?
Speaker 5 (02:10):
No?
Speaker 3 (02:11):
Has it improved SAT test scores in Texas?
Speaker 2 (02:14):
No?
Speaker 3 (02:15):
Has it improved Star test scores in Texas. No? Has
it cost us a lot of money? Yes?
Speaker 4 (02:24):
So what has Dei produced? Nothing but confusion? First Corinthians
fourteen thirty three says that God is not the author.
Speaker 3 (02:34):
Of confusion, but of peace.
Speaker 4 (02:37):
And so instead of us hiding behind the misnomer of
Dei leveling the playing field, it's time for us to
wipe the black face off of DEI. DEI purports that
it benefits blacks and brown people in America, but it doesn't.
Speaker 3 (02:54):
It really only opens.
Speaker 4 (02:56):
Up opportunities for people who are driven towards trans sell
at ideologies. My hope and prayers that we can get
back to reading, writing, and arithmetic and remove content that
is mentally raping our children.
Speaker 3 (03:10):
Thank you, appreciate your testimony.
Speaker 6 (03:13):
Thank you remembers any questions I want to follow up
with your last comments. It's also true for ten years
of DEI offices across our university campuses, sure ten years
that minority faculty recruitment and hiring went from three point
(03:33):
one percent to one point seven.
Speaker 3 (03:36):
Wow. Senator Man add.
Speaker 4 (03:40):
Four percent of DEI hires in America are only black.
Speaker 3 (03:43):
They're black, right.
Speaker 4 (03:44):
Only four percent of DEI hires are black according to
Black Enterprise, and seventy six percent of chief diversity officers
are white.
Speaker 3 (03:55):
And so.
Speaker 4 (03:57):
We need diversity now. For our diversity it's not working.
You know, if we get back to the Bible where
it talks about loving your neighbor as yourself and getting
away from what Ibram Kendy said, one of the leading
voices of critical race theory, who said that the best
way to deal with past racism is present racism, and
(04:18):
so it's time for us to get back to uniting
America instead of dividing America.
Speaker 1 (04:24):
Okay, so there are a lot of things that he
said that deserve a response. And I don't know if
you have anything that stands out in your mind que
that you want to go first, or if I should
(04:46):
just start wrestling through this nonsense, but.
Speaker 5 (04:50):
You will probably be able to provide a more sound
and pragmatic response than me. Well that you follow me
on this one, so you can recent the conversation and
maybe calm some of our listeners downy white supremacist white
supremacy and racism in our country. Our current gop maga
(05:14):
and it's all of its proliferations will always make room
for a space for providing microphone and applification for people
who are intentionally obtuse with regards to racism in this country.
And a loud, confidence sounding black man quoting Bible scripture?
Speaker 2 (05:33):
Is there one a pastor at that?
Speaker 5 (05:35):
Yeah, a black pastor, ballheaded, well dressed, cleaned up, well spoken,
and articulate is the champion for their cause. They will
lift up the highest and you hear the room break
into a round of applause as he decides for all
(05:56):
of us collectively, because he is the voice for Black Americans,
we are somehow anti DEI. And I love how they've
turned DEI into a four letter word that they can
just make a pejorative and the country will just accept
it again, intentionally singing, singling out the LGBTQ community and
(06:23):
his language, using the scripture to support that position, and
somehow making Dei anti black and anti God again, brilliant
in his approach, but intentionally opt intellectually dishonest or flatly wrong,
(06:48):
ignorant and divisive. Intentionally cannot be both well meaning and
intelligent when it comes to things like this.
Speaker 1 (06:59):
Well, there's there are some things that he that he
stated right that are purported as fact, and you know
this is something that requires you know, I would have
to see where all this came from, and you know
I'm not in Texas in order to have access to
(07:19):
that information at present. But if we accept everything that
he says at face value, right, everything that he says
is absolutely valid, I think I want to start with
one of the things that you pointed out. First off,
since he's a pastor. He conflated God with this. He
(07:40):
says that DEI. The only result of di I is confusion, right,
and then he goes on to say that God is
not the author of confusion, and then he goes down
that rabbit hole. Well, that presumes that everyone is confused
like he is, and I think that he might be
a little bit of an island unto himself in that regard,
(08:05):
and so that whole line of thinking is really just him.
Speaker 2 (08:11):
I'll speak for myself.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
At least and say that I'm not not confused about
it at all, and i will make my point. So,
there are millions of us in this country, millions of
black people in this country, and we have to make
(08:33):
policy that affects everyone in this country, right, And it
is very difficult to do that because when you have
a good idea, it can be a good idea, but
when you scale it up, that's when you start to
see that there are some problems.
Speaker 2 (08:48):
Right.
Speaker 1 (08:50):
Diversity, equity, and inclusion initiatives are intended to bring about
an equitable go at life in America. And so conceptually,
if there's nothing else in this space that's intending to
(09:11):
accomplish that, then DEI it is and what we do
is along the way, we adjust it, we refine it,
we you know, develop it, and you know it gets better.
And the things that are working we do more. Of
the things that aren't working we do less of. Right
in theory, that's the way that this would work. Now,
(09:32):
for his argument saying that you know, DEI didn't result
in test scores increased in SAT scores, and blah blah
blah blah blah, he's looking at one facet of DEI,
which is education. He's not looking at employment, he's not
looking at healthcare, he's not looking at housing, he's not
looking at you know, all of the other facets that
(09:55):
this is supposed to impact.
Speaker 2 (09:59):
Right, looking at.
Speaker 1 (10:00):
One and from where I sit DEI.
Speaker 2 (10:09):
The thrust of.
Speaker 1 (10:10):
DEI was so that it could have an economic benefit
to black people, and it would also ultimately have an
economic benefit to large corporations because they have more perspective,
they can penetrate markets better, they can offend people less,
et cetera. Right, And so when you take something that's
(10:31):
meant to be beneficial in terms of you know, economics,
and then you apply it into like an educational traditional
educational setting, it might not fit the same way, right,
and therefore.
Speaker 2 (10:52):
Refinement might be necessary. Right. We have to opt them.
Speaker 1 (10:55):
We have to take the principle, the theory of this,
and we have to refine it so that it worked
in this other separate framework. Okay, The other thing I
wanted posit is that if you know, black folks, we
didn't just wake up today and all of these problems
(11:19):
were our problems. You know, this is something that has
taken a long time for us to get to where
we are. And my theory and you know I'm anybody listening,
of course, Q. You know, anyone can correct me if
I'm wrong, if you feel like I'm wrong. But my
theory is, if it takes a long time to create
a problem, you should be willing to give a long
(11:40):
time to fixing the problem. Now, they made a mention
of you know, DII programs ten years, this, that, and
the third, I don't know that ten years has really
been I don't look at the past ten years and
see DEI all across that. Now you could argue that,
(12:01):
you know, the Me Too movement in twenty sixteen had
some impact on what access women had to you know,
these programs. But from where I sit, the DEI programs
started to kind of manifest themselves sometime around you know,
the end of twenty twenty. So this is the beginning
(12:23):
of twenty twenty five. So, you know, if we wanted
to be generous and call that four years with no
refinement to speak of, then I think that his assessment
is premature.
Speaker 2 (12:35):
Again if I accept it.
Speaker 1 (12:36):
As face at face value, okay, and it lacks the
context and the framework that it was intended for, because again,
education and commerce are two different disciplines entirely. Now, he
also mentioned that the reason that these programs exist is
(13:00):
because people make money.
Speaker 2 (13:02):
Off of them.
Speaker 1 (13:03):
Now, I want to push back there, because I think
the cardboard box industry is worth more as an industry
than all professional sports combined. Okay, professional sports as an
industry is a huge industry. I don't know, light bulbs
(13:27):
huge industry, you know, textiles huge industry. I doubt that DEI,
all of the people put together in the whole country,
I doubt that industry measures up to even one of
those other industries. It is not a huge industry. And critically,
it does not have the power lobbying power otherwise that
(13:50):
the gun industry has, or the the what is it
the gun lobby and all these other industries that are
well established. This one is smaller with less power. So
for people to say, oh, you guys, this only exists
because certain people make money off of it. First off,
that's silly. You have to show me the numbers of
(14:10):
what you think that the the you know, the activist
type industry is worth, because activism doesn't pay. Trust me,
I know. On top of that, and you know, I'll
speak for you too, Q, but of course I want
you to jump in.
Speaker 6 (14:28):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (14:31):
Nobody wants to make money doing this, especially if you
can make money doing something that's more fun. I didn't
want to wake up this morning to all of these
problems that all of my people are facing that I love.
Speaker 2 (14:49):
And didn't start working on this.
Speaker 3 (14:51):
No.
Speaker 2 (14:51):
I wanted to wake up and uh, you know, rock
a party.
Speaker 1 (14:56):
I wanted to wake up and I don't know. Let's
let's let's go to another city and I don't know,
do whatever we do. Let's let's, you know, put together
a marketing plan for some startup. Let's do what you know, Q,
and I you we've done these types of jobs over
the years. Let's go to a uh what are they
(15:17):
called convention and you know, check out some activations or
like perform some activations.
Speaker 2 (15:24):
Whatever.
Speaker 1 (15:25):
Let's let's do this type of work because that's more fun.
We have to wake up and read all these sad
stories about our people getting beat up by the police,
getting killed, our agenda, getting steamrolled by the government, you
name it.
Speaker 2 (15:41):
Who wants to dwell in this monk. We do it
because it's.
Speaker 1 (15:44):
Necessary, because somebody has to fight, somebody has to speak up,
somebody has to say what's wrong, somebody has to say
what's right, and someone has to do it. And the
calling landed in our lap, and we heeded that call.
We made way more money when we were just dejaying
and just being on radio. So when people say that
you know, there's there's money here and that it's just
(16:05):
a it's on its face, it's silly. There is no
money here for this type of work. And then the
last thing I'll say, and then I'll give it back
to you, is that when we do examine DEI, because
the gentleman on the stage that was saying that, you know,
the schools or whatever had some different numbers or whatever,
(16:26):
you and I both know Q that the biggest beneficiaries
of DEI initiatives have been white women. And once you
exclude white women from the conversation, then you end up
with all of these like small numbers that makes DEI
look like it's not effective. Right, So when you label
(16:48):
DEI for black people, but the truth is white women
have been benefiting from it, then we get all the
blame and they get all the benefit. And you know,
again without context, and you know, having a disingenuous conversation
that you know is intellectually dishonest.
Speaker 2 (17:09):
You know, to quote your words.
Speaker 1 (17:12):
Is unfair, it is unkind. And for this gentleman here,
who I guess purports to be doing the Lord's work,
not even understanding the premise of DEI, can you, sir,
not look around at the state of your people and
say something needs to be done? And if you can
(17:36):
say that much, because I would imagine that you might
at least be able to get there. I won't guarantee it,
but you might be able to get there. If you
can say something must be done, then is the only
thing you can do attack diversity, equity and inclusion initiatives?
Can you not offer a solution? Can you not offer
(17:56):
a way to refine the initiatives that are already take place.
Can you not develop a framework for this to fit
into the education system.
Speaker 2 (18:04):
For your state of Texas? Or is it only simply.
Speaker 1 (18:09):
To criticize what is out there, to give the white
man who's on the stage with the gavel the cheesy
grin so that he can feel comfortable when he goes
back home in his racism and say to himself on
that drive home, see, I'm not as racist as I thought,
(18:29):
because that black guy said what it was I was thinking,
ignoring the fact the ninety two percent of black women
and eighty three percent of black men voted the same
way this last election. Again, that's about as close to
being on the same page about what it is that
(18:52):
we want as possible. And if you hyper focus on
that little bit of what's the word I'm looking for,
descent and say, well, this descent reflects my view of
the world. So ninety two percent of black women are
wrong and eighty three percent of black men are wrong,
(19:12):
and this tiny sliver that actually agrees with me is right.
And therefore I feel insulated from the darker feelings, from
the uncomfortable, unsettling feelings that I have where I question
whether or not I am indeed racist, or do that
I indeed harbor racist sentiments I can hide behind. You know,
these these dissenters provide me the cover to get these ideas.
Speaker 2 (19:36):
Off, you know.
Speaker 1 (19:38):
I again, I'm here to push back against that. It
doesn't matter what it pays, all right, that's me on
the soapbox, Q, help me out.
Speaker 5 (19:47):
No, not on the soapbox at all, bro. I some
of these things are so difficult to talk about because
we just don't have enough time.
Speaker 2 (19:57):
Sure.
Speaker 5 (19:57):
Again, when someone's intentionally up to in this way, presenting
things as fact and presenting an argument that people will
assume as comprehensive, knowing that they're leaving out intentionally so
much context and so much nuance, even taking up the
position which is another part of the masterful plan of
(20:19):
those who wish to oppress us, that if it doesn't
only benefit black people, then throw the whole thing away.
Yeah again, this guy knows better. That's why he picked
the data points that he picked and left so much
room for dissent contrary to what he's saying. But he
(20:40):
knows that no one in that room is opposing They
are to believe what he's saying. So, like you said,
they can be more comfortable in their racism. They can
drive home with a clear conscience and not feel less racist,
but feel unracist. The black pastor, the man of God
told us that we were right, honey, told us that
(21:01):
we were right.
Speaker 2 (21:01):
Kids.
Speaker 5 (21:03):
When they go back to their communities, back to their churches,
back to their jobs, back to their benches as judges,
back to their places of work, and they're operating rooms,
as doctors, squad cars, back to their squad cars, as
those who are supposed to serve and protect, you forget
that these people go back to their jobs and they're
(21:24):
not wearing robes, they're not wearing masks. They're the people
who are, in some cases, deciding outcomes for us, deciding
whether or not they're going to listen to our mothers,
our sisters, our daughters, and our wives when they tell
them they're not. They're uncomfortable, and they're in pain when
they're giving birth to children and ignoring the things they
(21:46):
tell them so that our mortality rates are still the highest.
You know, they decide how we're going to be sentenced
for misdemeanors, you know, while giving slaps on the risks
for felonies for those who don't look like us. We
completely forget the roles that these people play in society
and question how come the outcomes have been continuously the
(22:09):
way they are. It's not because of DEI initiative, sir,
It's the reason DEI initiatives.
Speaker 2 (22:14):
Exist in the first place. Thank you, c Well, that's
all I got to say.
Speaker 1 (22:21):
I don't want to give any more time or attention
or bandwidth to John Manchukubu, right, so I won't. If
you have anything that you would like to offer this conversation,
please do so using the red microphone talk back feature
on the iHeartRadio app. Let's uh find out how you feel.
(22:45):
Outside of that, of course, you can reach me on
all social media at Rams's job.
Speaker 5 (22:49):
I am Qward on all social media as well.
Speaker 2 (22:52):
And until we hear from you peace.
Speaker 1 (22:56):
This has been a production of the Black Information Network.
Today's show is produced Chris Thompson. Have some thoughts you'd
like to share, use the red microphone talkback feature on
the iHeartRadio app. While you're there, be sure to hit
subscribing down.
Speaker 2 (23:07):
With all of our.
Speaker 1 (23:08):
Episodes, I'm your host, ramses Jah on all social media.
Join us tomorrow as we share our news with our
voice from our perspective right here on the Black Information
Network Daily podcast
This is the Black Information Network Daily Podcast, and I'm
your host, ramses Jah. And sometimes the amount of stories
that make their way to us means that we simply
can't cover.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Everything that comes our way.
Speaker 1 (00:13):
But from time to time, a story just stays with me,
and Bill compelled to share it with you and give
you my thoughts. And now one more thing, Okay, on
this episode of one more Thing, we are going to
do as our great leader has instructed us. Shout out
(00:36):
to Chris Thompson. He sent us over a video. The
video is entitled black Pastor exposes the real.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
Problem with DEI programs.
Speaker 3 (00:48):
HM.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
This man's name is John.
Speaker 3 (00:53):
A.
Speaker 1 (00:54):
Manchuku Wu. If I'm not mistaken, and we're going to
take a.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
List to what he has to say.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
We're going to share that with you, of course, and
then we're going to respond to it. So without further ado,
here you go.
Speaker 4 (01:12):
I'm John Amanchruku, and I wish that Senator Royce West
would be here at this moment to hear first and
foremost that there are black people in this country who
are against DEI a contrary to popular opinion.
Speaker 3 (01:26):
In nineteen eleven, Booker T. Washington wrote these words.
Speaker 4 (01:28):
He says, there's a class of colored people who make
a business of keeping the troubles, the wrongs, and the
hardships of the Negro race before the public. Having learned
that they are able to make a living out of
their troubles, they have grown into the settled habit of
advertising their wrongs, partly because they want sympathy and partly
because it pays. Some of these people do not want
(01:48):
the Negro to lose his grievances because they do not
want to lose their jobs. The question today is what
is the fruit of Dei? Has it fostered you unity
in school districts in Texas?
Speaker 5 (02:02):
No?
Speaker 3 (02:03):
Has it improved reading scores in Texas?
Speaker 2 (02:06):
No?
Speaker 3 (02:07):
Has it improved math scores in Texas?
Speaker 5 (02:10):
No?
Speaker 3 (02:11):
Has it improved SAT test scores in Texas?
Speaker 2 (02:14):
No?
Speaker 3 (02:15):
Has it improved Star test scores in Texas. No? Has
it cost us a lot of money? Yes?
Speaker 4 (02:24):
So what has Dei produced? Nothing but confusion? First Corinthians
fourteen thirty three says that God is not the author.
Speaker 3 (02:34):
Of confusion, but of peace.
Speaker 4 (02:37):
And so instead of us hiding behind the misnomer of
Dei leveling the playing field, it's time for us to
wipe the black face off of DEI. DEI purports that
it benefits blacks and brown people in America, but it doesn't.
Speaker 3 (02:54):
It really only opens.
Speaker 4 (02:56):
Up opportunities for people who are driven towards trans sell
at ideologies. My hope and prayers that we can get
back to reading, writing, and arithmetic and remove content that
is mentally raping our children.
Speaker 3 (03:10):
Thank you, appreciate your testimony.
Speaker 6 (03:13):
Thank you remembers any questions I want to follow up
with your last comments. It's also true for ten years
of DEI offices across our university campuses, sure ten years
that minority faculty recruitment and hiring went from three point
(03:33):
one percent to one point seven.
Speaker 3 (03:36):
Wow. Senator Man add.
Speaker 4 (03:40):
Four percent of DEI hires in America are only black.
Speaker 3 (03:43):
They're black, right.
Speaker 4 (03:44):
Only four percent of DEI hires are black according to
Black Enterprise, and seventy six percent of chief diversity officers
are white.
Speaker 3 (03:55):
And so.
Speaker 4 (03:57):
We need diversity now. For our diversity it's not working.
You know, if we get back to the Bible where
it talks about loving your neighbor as yourself and getting
away from what Ibram Kendy said, one of the leading
voices of critical race theory, who said that the best
way to deal with past racism is present racism, and
(04:18):
so it's time for us to get back to uniting
America instead of dividing America.
Speaker 1 (04:24):
Okay, so there are a lot of things that he
said that deserve a response. And I don't know if
you have anything that stands out in your mind que
that you want to go first, or if I should
(04:46):
just start wrestling through this nonsense, but.
Speaker 5 (04:50):
You will probably be able to provide a more sound
and pragmatic response than me. Well that you follow me
on this one, so you can recent the conversation and
maybe calm some of our listeners downy white supremacist white
supremacy and racism in our country. Our current gop maga
(05:14):
and it's all of its proliferations will always make room
for a space for providing microphone and applification for people
who are intentionally obtuse with regards to racism in this country.
And a loud, confidence sounding black man quoting Bible scripture?
Speaker 2 (05:33):
Is there one a pastor at that?
Speaker 5 (05:35):
Yeah, a black pastor, ballheaded, well dressed, cleaned up, well spoken,
and articulate is the champion for their cause. They will
lift up the highest and you hear the room break
into a round of applause as he decides for all
(05:56):
of us collectively, because he is the voice for Black Americans,
we are somehow anti DEI. And I love how they've
turned DEI into a four letter word that they can
just make a pejorative and the country will just accept
it again, intentionally singing, singling out the LGBTQ community and
(06:23):
his language, using the scripture to support that position, and
somehow making Dei anti black and anti God again, brilliant
in his approach, but intentionally opt intellectually dishonest or flatly wrong,
(06:48):
ignorant and divisive. Intentionally cannot be both well meaning and
intelligent when it comes to things like this.
Speaker 1 (06:59):
Well, there's there are some things that he that he
stated right that are purported as fact, and you know
this is something that requires you know, I would have
to see where all this came from, and you know
I'm not in Texas in order to have access to
(07:19):
that information at present. But if we accept everything that
he says at face value, right, everything that he says
is absolutely valid, I think I want to start with
one of the things that you pointed out. First off,
since he's a pastor. He conflated God with this. He
(07:40):
says that DEI. The only result of di I is confusion, right,
and then he goes on to say that God is
not the author of confusion, and then he goes down
that rabbit hole. Well, that presumes that everyone is confused
like he is, and I think that he might be
a little bit of an island unto himself in that regard,
(08:05):
and so that whole line of thinking is really just him.
Speaker 2 (08:11):
I'll speak for myself.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
At least and say that I'm not not confused about
it at all, and i will make my point. So,
there are millions of us in this country, millions of
black people in this country, and we have to make
(08:33):
policy that affects everyone in this country, right, And it
is very difficult to do that because when you have
a good idea, it can be a good idea, but
when you scale it up, that's when you start to
see that there are some problems.
Speaker 2 (08:48):
Right.
Speaker 1 (08:50):
Diversity, equity, and inclusion initiatives are intended to bring about
an equitable go at life in America. And so conceptually,
if there's nothing else in this space that's intending to
(09:11):
accomplish that, then DEI it is and what we do
is along the way, we adjust it, we refine it,
we you know, develop it, and you know it gets better.
And the things that are working we do more. Of
the things that aren't working we do less of. Right
in theory, that's the way that this would work. Now,
(09:32):
for his argument saying that you know, DEI didn't result
in test scores increased in SAT scores, and blah blah
blah blah blah, he's looking at one facet of DEI,
which is education. He's not looking at employment, he's not
looking at healthcare, he's not looking at housing, he's not
looking at you know, all of the other facets that
(09:55):
this is supposed to impact.
Speaker 2 (09:59):
Right, looking at.
Speaker 1 (10:00):
One and from where I sit DEI.
Speaker 2 (10:09):
The thrust of.
Speaker 1 (10:10):
DEI was so that it could have an economic benefit
to black people, and it would also ultimately have an
economic benefit to large corporations because they have more perspective,
they can penetrate markets better, they can offend people less,
et cetera. Right, And so when you take something that's
(10:31):
meant to be beneficial in terms of you know, economics,
and then you apply it into like an educational traditional
educational setting, it might not fit the same way, right,
and therefore.
Speaker 2 (10:52):
Refinement might be necessary. Right. We have to opt them.
Speaker 1 (10:55):
We have to take the principle, the theory of this,
and we have to refine it so that it worked
in this other separate framework. Okay, The other thing I
wanted posit is that if you know, black folks, we
didn't just wake up today and all of these problems
(11:19):
were our problems. You know, this is something that has
taken a long time for us to get to where
we are. And my theory and you know I'm anybody listening,
of course, Q. You know, anyone can correct me if
I'm wrong, if you feel like I'm wrong. But my
theory is, if it takes a long time to create
a problem, you should be willing to give a long
(11:40):
time to fixing the problem. Now, they made a mention
of you know, DII programs ten years, this, that, and
the third, I don't know that ten years has really
been I don't look at the past ten years and
see DEI all across that. Now you could argue that,
(12:01):
you know, the Me Too movement in twenty sixteen had
some impact on what access women had to you know,
these programs. But from where I sit, the DEI programs
started to kind of manifest themselves sometime around you know,
the end of twenty twenty. So this is the beginning
(12:23):
of twenty twenty five. So, you know, if we wanted
to be generous and call that four years with no
refinement to speak of, then I think that his assessment
is premature.
Speaker 2 (12:35):
Again if I accept it.
Speaker 1 (12:36):
As face at face value, okay, and it lacks the
context and the framework that it was intended for, because again,
education and commerce are two different disciplines entirely. Now, he
also mentioned that the reason that these programs exist is
(13:00):
because people make money.
Speaker 2 (13:02):
Off of them.
Speaker 1 (13:03):
Now, I want to push back there, because I think
the cardboard box industry is worth more as an industry
than all professional sports combined. Okay, professional sports as an
industry is a huge industry. I don't know, light bulbs
(13:27):
huge industry, you know, textiles huge industry. I doubt that DEI,
all of the people put together in the whole country,
I doubt that industry measures up to even one of
those other industries. It is not a huge industry. And critically,
it does not have the power lobbying power otherwise that
(13:50):
the gun industry has, or the the what is it
the gun lobby and all these other industries that are
well established. This one is smaller with less power. So
for people to say, oh, you guys, this only exists
because certain people make money off of it. First off,
that's silly. You have to show me the numbers of
(14:10):
what you think that the the you know, the activist
type industry is worth, because activism doesn't pay. Trust me,
I know. On top of that, and you know, I'll
speak for you too, Q, but of course I want
you to jump in.
Speaker 6 (14:28):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (14:31):
Nobody wants to make money doing this, especially if you
can make money doing something that's more fun. I didn't
want to wake up this morning to all of these
problems that all of my people are facing that I love.
Speaker 2 (14:49):
And didn't start working on this.
Speaker 3 (14:51):
No.
Speaker 2 (14:51):
I wanted to wake up and uh, you know, rock
a party.
Speaker 1 (14:56):
I wanted to wake up and I don't know. Let's
let's let's go to another city and I don't know,
do whatever we do. Let's let's, you know, put together
a marketing plan for some startup. Let's do what you know, Q,
and I you we've done these types of jobs over
the years. Let's go to a uh what are they
(15:17):
called convention and you know, check out some activations or
like perform some activations.
Speaker 2 (15:24):
Whatever.
Speaker 1 (15:25):
Let's let's do this type of work because that's more fun.
We have to wake up and read all these sad
stories about our people getting beat up by the police,
getting killed, our agenda, getting steamrolled by the government, you
name it.
Speaker 2 (15:41):
Who wants to dwell in this monk. We do it
because it's.
Speaker 1 (15:44):
Necessary, because somebody has to fight, somebody has to speak up,
somebody has to say what's wrong, somebody has to say
what's right, and someone has to do it. And the
calling landed in our lap, and we heeded that call.
We made way more money when we were just dejaying
and just being on radio. So when people say that
you know, there's there's money here and that it's just
(16:05):
a it's on its face, it's silly. There is no
money here for this type of work. And then the
last thing I'll say, and then I'll give it back
to you, is that when we do examine DEI, because
the gentleman on the stage that was saying that, you know,
the schools or whatever had some different numbers or whatever,
(16:26):
you and I both know Q that the biggest beneficiaries
of DEI initiatives have been white women. And once you
exclude white women from the conversation, then you end up
with all of these like small numbers that makes DEI
look like it's not effective. Right, So when you label
(16:48):
DEI for black people, but the truth is white women
have been benefiting from it, then we get all the
blame and they get all the benefit. And you know,
again without context, and you know, having a disingenuous conversation
that you know is intellectually dishonest.
Speaker 2 (17:09):
You know, to quote your words.
Speaker 1 (17:12):
Is unfair, it is unkind. And for this gentleman here,
who I guess purports to be doing the Lord's work,
not even understanding the premise of DEI, can you, sir,
not look around at the state of your people and
say something needs to be done? And if you can
(17:36):
say that much, because I would imagine that you might
at least be able to get there. I won't guarantee it,
but you might be able to get there. If you
can say something must be done, then is the only
thing you can do attack diversity, equity and inclusion initiatives?
Can you not offer a solution? Can you not offer
(17:56):
a way to refine the initiatives that are already take place.
Can you not develop a framework for this to fit
into the education system.
Speaker 2 (18:04):
For your state of Texas? Or is it only simply.
Speaker 1 (18:09):
To criticize what is out there, to give the white
man who's on the stage with the gavel the cheesy
grin so that he can feel comfortable when he goes
back home in his racism and say to himself on
that drive home, see, I'm not as racist as I thought,
(18:29):
because that black guy said what it was I was thinking,
ignoring the fact the ninety two percent of black women
and eighty three percent of black men voted the same
way this last election. Again, that's about as close to
being on the same page about what it is that
(18:52):
we want as possible. And if you hyper focus on
that little bit of what's the word I'm looking for,
descent and say, well, this descent reflects my view of
the world. So ninety two percent of black women are
wrong and eighty three percent of black men are wrong,
(19:12):
and this tiny sliver that actually agrees with me is right.
And therefore I feel insulated from the darker feelings, from
the uncomfortable, unsettling feelings that I have where I question
whether or not I am indeed racist, or do that
I indeed harbor racist sentiments I can hide behind. You know,
these these dissenters provide me the cover to get these ideas.
Speaker 2 (19:36):
Off, you know.
Speaker 1 (19:38):
I again, I'm here to push back against that. It
doesn't matter what it pays, all right, that's me on
the soapbox, Q, help me out.
Speaker 5 (19:47):
No, not on the soapbox at all, bro. I some
of these things are so difficult to talk about because
we just don't have enough time.
Speaker 2 (19:57):
Sure.
Speaker 5 (19:57):
Again, when someone's intentionally up to in this way, presenting
things as fact and presenting an argument that people will
assume as comprehensive, knowing that they're leaving out intentionally so
much context and so much nuance, even taking up the
position which is another part of the masterful plan of
(20:19):
those who wish to oppress us, that if it doesn't
only benefit black people, then throw the whole thing away.
Yeah again, this guy knows better. That's why he picked
the data points that he picked and left so much
room for dissent contrary to what he's saying. But he
(20:40):
knows that no one in that room is opposing They
are to believe what he's saying. So, like you said,
they can be more comfortable in their racism. They can
drive home with a clear conscience and not feel less racist,
but feel unracist. The black pastor, the man of God
told us that we were right, honey, told us that
(21:01):
we were right.
Speaker 2 (21:01):
Kids.
Speaker 5 (21:03):
When they go back to their communities, back to their churches,
back to their jobs, back to their benches as judges,
back to their places of work, and they're operating rooms,
as doctors, squad cars, back to their squad cars, as
those who are supposed to serve and protect, you forget
that these people go back to their jobs and they're
(21:24):
not wearing robes, they're not wearing masks. They're the people
who are, in some cases, deciding outcomes for us, deciding
whether or not they're going to listen to our mothers,
our sisters, our daughters, and our wives when they tell
them they're not. They're uncomfortable, and they're in pain when
they're giving birth to children and ignoring the things they
(21:46):
tell them so that our mortality rates are still the highest.
You know, they decide how we're going to be sentenced
for misdemeanors, you know, while giving slaps on the risks
for felonies for those who don't look like us. We
completely forget the roles that these people play in society
and question how come the outcomes have been continuously the
(22:09):
way they are. It's not because of DEI initiative, sir,
It's the reason DEI initiatives.
Speaker 2 (22:14):
Exist in the first place. Thank you, c Well, that's
all I got to say.
Speaker 1 (22:21):
I don't want to give any more time or attention
or bandwidth to John Manchukubu, right, so I won't. If
you have anything that you would like to offer this conversation,
please do so using the red microphone talk back feature
on the iHeartRadio app. Let's uh find out how you feel.
(22:45):
Outside of that, of course, you can reach me on
all social media at Rams's job.
Speaker 5 (22:49):
I am Qward on all social media as well.
Speaker 2 (22:52):
And until we hear from you peace.
Speaker 1 (22:56):
This has been a production of the Black Information Network.
Today's show is produced Chris Thompson. Have some thoughts you'd
like to share, use the red microphone talkback feature on
the iHeartRadio app. While you're there, be sure to hit
subscribing down.
Speaker 2 (23:07):
With all of our.
Speaker 1 (23:08):
Episodes, I'm your host, ramses Jah on all social media.
Join us tomorrow as we share our news with our
voice from our perspective right here on the Black Information
Network Daily podcast
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