October 17, 2024 • 23 mins
Today's special guest is Dr. Christopher Towler, Associate Professor at California State University-Sacramento and Director of the Black Voter Project.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Born out of a desire to emphasize the instrumental role
Black voters play in our understanding of American politics. The
Black Voter Project public opinion surveys explore African American political attitudes, behavior,
and voting in ways that are often unexamined. With a
focus on contemporary issues in politics, expertise and political history,
(00:21):
and survey design allows for unique insights into African American
mobilization and social movement organization. Extreme political polarization makes Black
political turnout a necessity for progressive politics today. Christopher Towler,
PhD is an associate professor in the Department of Political
Science at California State University, Sacramento. He is the director
(00:45):
of the Black Voter Project, co founder of Black Insights Research,
the editor in chief of the Journal of Race, Ethnicity
and Politics, and he is our guest today. This is
the Black Information Network Daily Podcast and I'm your host, Rams' job.
All right, Christopher Tyler, Welcome to the show. I have
(01:06):
been so looking forward to our conversation. How are you
doing today?
Speaker 2 (01:11):
I'm doing great. Thank you so much for having me.
I'm so excited to be here and to have this
important conversation on block voters.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
Absolutely. Now you know, I talked a little bit about
your background, but a standard practice on this show give
our listeners a little bit of background on who you are,
where you grow up, what you studied in school, and
sort of what fueled your passion to you know, ultimately
lead you to this conversation we're having today.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
Yeah, I'm originally from Colorado, so I grew up in
the Boulder, Denver area, did my undergraduate work there, born
and raised as a buff and then ended up at
the University of Washington and Seattle for my graduate studies.
I started graduate school in two thousand and seven, so
my first year there was Obama's election, which really politicized
(01:58):
me in ways that I never really am as it
were possible, pushing me to want to investigate and interrogate
black voters. For the rest of my career, It's continued
to push me in that way, and so throughout graduate
school I tried to do research, original projects and complete
analysis on black voters. And what I came to find
(02:19):
was there was not much original data, new data, contemporary
data on black voters whatsoever. And the data that was
out there was very limited and not really focused on politics,
which was really surprising considering I'm going through all of
this as I'm watching the first black president come to
power and change the face of the White House. And
(02:40):
so almost immediately following graduate school, when I got my
first position at a small liberal arts school in Washington State,
Western Washington University, I started a pilot study that I
called the Black Voter Project as my attempt to create
a database and start collecting data on black voters, as
there was a sort of gap of major gap in
(03:02):
data on this group in graduate school, and it'd become
my passion again always wanting to study black people, in
study Black America and black history. Just being there during
that period with Obama and graduate school pushed me to
want to make this right and offer some sense of
real empirical data and research to what's what was already
(03:25):
out there. Since then, I moved to Sacramento State University
in twenty seventeen, and I've been able to continue to
collect data and add different data sets to what is
now an ongoing series of data specific to Black voters
that I've called the Black Voter Project, culminating now in
this twenty twenty four election series, where we've collected two
(03:47):
waves so far and are collecting two more waves of
election data specific to black voters. And so we're determined
to collect very accurate and reliable data that uses large
enough samples that we can say a lot of things
about Black voters that really isn't out there based on
any data or any real research.
Speaker 1 (04:08):
You know what, I have to imagine that this time
in your life, you have to be busier than ever.
Absolutely slammed. We obviously covered the headlines, and back when
Joe Biden was the presumed nominee for president, we noticed
(04:32):
that some support was slipping away from Joe Biden from
a historically reliable base of African American voters, particularly African
American men. And now that Kamala Harris is the candidate
on the top of the ticket, we're having to have
(04:57):
the same conversations and yet different conversation, perhaps for different reasons,
with those same black men. So this is an interesting
time for us. It has to be an interesting time
for you. Having gathered all this data, I'm sure that
lots of folks are knocking on your door trying to
get you to make sense of it. And I'm going
to be no different. You know, our listeners and you know,
(05:21):
because this is something that we're navigating. Here is something
we're trying to figure out what the disconnect is. So
do us a favor. Let's start at the beginning. Why
do you think you know black men have recently been
defecting from the Democratic voter base. What reasons have you encountered?
Speaker 2 (05:41):
So, yes, slamed is an understatement. I appreciate all the
calls I get because I've been waiting for years to
be able to speak to these issues with real, good, reliable,
accurate data. So this is really important. But at the
same time, I'm going to push back on the narrative
a little bit and suggest that much of the discussion
(06:02):
and rhetoric around black support for Trump is overblown, and
that if you look at good data, if you look
at data that collects large samples, I'm talking five hundred
or more, right, my data sets to try to collect
at least a thousand. The data I collected back in
April has over two thousand black respondents. The data I
just collected in August has over sixteen hundred Black respondents.
(06:23):
And in those data sets that are black specific and
collect large enough samples, black support for Trump is no
higher than it was in twenty twenty and is hovering
right around its historical average dating all the way back
to the seventies, regardless of who the GOP candidate was.
And that goes for black men as well. Right, black men,
About twenty percent of Black men voted for Donald Trump
(06:45):
in twenty twenty, back when Biden was the nominee. My
data in other large, large black data sets had Black
support for Trump for men at right around twenty percent,
And since Harris has take and over, I've actually seen
that drop slightly to about eighteen percent among black men
and eleven to thirteen percent amongst the entire Black community.
(07:08):
So again right there around sort of these historical averages
and no different than what it was in twenty twenty.
So I think that a lot of the conversation around
Black support for Trump is overstated. But at the same time,
I'm not mad that the conversation has shifted back to
black voters and we're now discussing what the black community needs,
because that's been something that we've needed to talk about
(07:30):
for a while now.
Speaker 1 (07:32):
Yeah. Yeah, So for those who are by the way,
thank you for that. I believe it or not. I
have to go to a like I believe we're presenting
civic Cipher is presenting so myself in my coast of
our radio show, we're presenting a panel and a discussion
(07:54):
for black men. It's called Courageous Conversations. And this conversation
that I'm having with you is so meaningful going into
that that's going to be in the next maybe twenty
four to forty eight hours. I had to have to
check my calendar. But this is definitely something that has
all of us, you know, fully engaged, who are trying
to get to the bottom of this. So, you know,
(08:15):
I want to I want to circle back. I appreciate
that response because it makes me feel a lot better
and breathe a little easier, because I just, you know,
I worry about us. You know, there there's I had
never seen anything like that, and of course my reality
didn't reflect that. But you know, when enough people tell
you something is true, you start to believe it. So again,
(08:36):
I appreciate the the insight into the fact that it's overblown.
But the fact is, there are some black men who
will not, you know, throw the support behind Democrats. There
were some black men who would not throw their support
behind Joe Biden and there are some black men who
(08:59):
can not and will not the other support behind Kamala Harris,
and that is their right. What I'm what I want
to know is maybe the why again some of the
some of the things you may have encountered, because that
part feels a little tough. You know, when it was Obama,
(09:20):
it felt like, you know, there was there was a moment.
And now that it's Kamala and I'm sure you understand
the connection between Obama and Kamala, then both being black candidates,
you would imagine that there'd be it would be something
that would be very easy for black men to get behind.
Speaker 2 (09:38):
Let's just be clear here, right, most black men are
behind Kamala Harris and have gotten behind her campaign. Four
out of five black men who are voting say they
will vote for Harris, right, And so we're talking about
that one out of five who we're trying to figure out, Okay,
why won't they get on board? And if we really
look at the data I mentioned the latest date I
(09:59):
collect at about eighteen percent of black men said they
were going to vote for Trump. Of those eighteen percent,
about nine to ten percent are Republican, so they are
conservative and they will probably vote for the Republican candidate,
no matter who it is. Right, So we're really only
talking about seven eight percent of the population of black men,
(10:22):
right that we're trying to really zone in on here
and figure out what's going on. And so in conversations
we've had in focus groups with these black men, one,
they tend to be more low propensity voters. Again, we're
talking about black men who voting for Trump, who are
not already sort of GOP diehards, right, they tend to
(10:43):
be low propensity voters. They tend to be sort of
less knowledgeable about politics, not really paying attention much, less interested,
and so they are more susceptible to GOP talking points,
to sort of the far right misinformation campaigns suggesting that
Trump is actually for black voters, or that Trump has
you know, the greatest unemployment. I mean, he said multiple
(11:05):
times he's the best candidate for the black community since
Abraham Lincoln, right, the best president since Lincoln. And if
you don't know anything about politics, and that's all you hear,
as you said, right, you might actually start to buy
into that. And that's some of what's taking place. And again,
this small corner of the black community with this very
(11:26):
fraction of black men. However, we have recently taken the
data and tried to sort of model this out, and
what we're also finding is that it's primarily among younger
black men, black men who are less attached to the
Democratic Party to start with, so those who are more independent,
and one thing that's that's really moderating all of this
(11:46):
is their view of Trump. And so if black men
do not see Trump as a threat, that is going
to be one of the most important factors as to
whether or not they support him. So again, sort of
a naivete if you will, about the Trump administration and
what Trump did during his presidency and what he continues
to promise to do if he were to win election.
Speaker 1 (12:07):
Again, if my voice didn't matter, people wouldn't be trying
so hard to silence me, and if my vote didn't matter,
they wouldn't work so hard to take it away. So
you know why I'm voting this November because I know
they don't want me to.
Speaker 3 (12:20):
Your voice is powerful, your voice matters. Don't let your
voice be silenced. To register, confirm your voting status, or
get information about voting in your area, visit vote dot gov.
That's vote dot goov a message from the Perception Institute
and the Black Information Network.
Speaker 1 (12:38):
We are here today with Christopher Towler, Associate professor in
the Department of Political Science at California State University, Sacramento,
director of the Black Voter Project, and the editor in
chief of the Journal of Race, Ethnicity and Politics. Sure sure,
you know. One of the things that I brushed up
against is you know, you mentioned a lot of these
(13:02):
folks are younger voters. But what I've come across is
folks telling me about some of the older voters that
are black, and they're you know, they're they're not comfortable
with the idea of a woman serving in the presidency.
(13:23):
These are like the old church guys that they would
refuse to attend a church where there's a woman pastor.
Some of the folks, the younger folks that maybe they're
not trumpers, but some of the younger folks that I
know of who are black men are very critical of
(13:45):
this nation's and rightfully so, in my opinion, very critical
of this nation's response to the Israel Palestine War. You know,
other factors, you know include you know, as you mentioned,
some black men have attached themselves to some of the
(14:05):
lower hanging GOP talking points or Trump talking points. You
know that he's good for business, you know, these black
men or entrepreneurs, these black men that espouse the idea
of being self made and think that everyone has the
same access to you know, the same materials because we
all have the same twenty four hours in a day,
rather than the fact that some people are just lucky.
(14:27):
You know, that's that's really it. I'm not in this
position because and I said this before on the show,
but I'm not in this position because of anything special.
You know, of course I'm smart, everyone's smart. Of Course
I work hard. Everybody works hard every day. You know,
I'm just lucky. I'm from Compton. If I never got
out of Compton, i'd be a gangbanger, you know, that
would be my story. But I made it out because
(14:47):
of some decisions other people made. So you know, it's
I think it's these black men that I've encountered in
these narratives that I've encountered that have made this particularly
challenging for me, because, as you mentioned, a lot of
these folks are kind of low information voters or voters
that are you know, maybe you know, they they have
(15:08):
one issue that really works for them. So I appreciate
the clarification there. I know that Obama also made some
remarks recently. I'm not sure if you heard those. Yeah, okay,
so yeah, I was aware, Okay, okay. So his remarks
on black men, he says, quote, part of me, sorry, sorry,
part of it makes me think and I'm speaking to
(15:29):
them indirectly, part of it makes me think that, well,
you just aren't feeling the idea of having a woman
as president, and you're coming up with other alternatives and
other reasons for that. And that's the end of his quote.
That's that's not something that has been as pronounced in
your data, has it.
Speaker 2 (15:46):
Yeah? So I think right off the bet, it's important
to say, right, sexism and misogyny is president in every
corner of America, right out of your race, ethnic group.
It's going to be there. It's a factor. It's built
into a Maria patriarchy. So, right, we do need to
have these conversations and at a very minimum a knowledge
that it's there and it's at play among black voters
(16:09):
as well, right, and that there are absolutely black men
who say I'm not going to vote for Harris or
I can't support Harris because she's a woman, right, regardless
of any of their other beliefs. I think when we
look at Obama's quote though, in him talking specifically to
black men, he really is, though, talking to this small
fraction of black men again who he's trying to convince.
(16:31):
And I'm not sure if that was the correct audience
that he was speaking to, right, because the people who
was talking to were campaign workers, so they were unlikely
to be the sort of unlikely knowledge voters. Right, Yeah,
Echo chamber, they're already there, they're already brought in, right,
And so the conversation. This is all to say, the
conversation needs to happen. It is an important conversation, sure,
(16:52):
but it's one that probably needs to happen within the community,
right where maybe behind closed doors, where there's there's more
opportunity to have a discussion with different people in the
black community about this without the media there, right, which
is probably impossible if you're Obama in this day and age, Right,
it's going to be tough to have those conversations out
(17:14):
in the open without having something like that eclip just
being grabbed up and run with. And so we're trying
to measure those things to take a look at the
role that misogyny will play and has played in this
election in the black community, because we know it's there, right,
But again, I just I just hesitate from trying to
zone too far in on this really small percent of
(17:35):
Black men who are not already diehard gopers who are
not going to support Harris. Right to me, there's a
much bigger question here and a much bigger message about
why people should vote altogether, And a lot of the
work that I've done leading up to this point has
looked at turnout and trying to get Black people who
might be low propensity, who might be unlikely voters to
(17:57):
get engaged and interested in politics in and using different
different messages, in different frameworks and ideas to get them
off the couch into the polls. Because there are far
more Black voters, far more Black men who are just
gonna sit this one out who would probably vote for
Harris than there are voting for Trump altogether.
Speaker 1 (18:16):
So let's talk about them then, because I would imagine
that with a relatively speaking, exciting candidate like Kamala Harris
in the arena, and of course she put some agenda
(18:37):
elements that are specific to black men in America in
her in her agenda on her website. We came across
this maybe three four days ago. I would imagine that
those low propensity voters, those people that would rather sit
this one out, would have enough reason to get out.
What would you say is keeping those people from voting?
(18:59):
Is it the message?
Speaker 3 (19:00):
Is it?
Speaker 1 (19:00):
You know? And if it is messaging, what sort of
messaging gets these people motivated?
Speaker 3 (19:06):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (19:06):
I think right now a lot of the people that
still remain out of the elector one are people that
just aren't being reached and so they're not being messaged,
they're not being talked to, they're not door isn't being
knocked on, they're not talking to people about politics. And
so there's a logistics here where you know, Harris already
started sort of behind the started late if you will,
(19:31):
right taking the nomination in July, late July, and so
there's there's a disadvantage there for her campaign trying to
figure all this out on the fly in a few months.
But it's really really important that the money is spent
to get the messages out there, that targeted messages to
the black community. To have messages, money spent to have
(19:53):
messages on black paid media to have messages going out there,
you know, on flyers, on the radio, in the news,
as well as having people on the ground, partnering with
organizations across different states and across different communities and giving
them the money to do the work. Right. And we
saw that be really really instrumental to Georgia in twenty twenty.
(20:15):
Turning Georgia blue was on the backs of the grassroots
organizations Black Voters Matter there and other organizations really being
on the ground and doing bus tours around the state
registering Black people to vote, getting them out and off
their couches, impressioning upon them how important it is to
actually vote, making it so that Georgia come twenty twenty
(20:35):
turned blue and then eventually leading to Warnock's successful Senate
bid in twenty twenty two. Right, And so that's just
one example, but we'd love to see that take place
all over the country, especially in these battleground states that
have significant black populations that can shift the electorate their
states like North Carolina, Michigan, Pennsylvania in particular, right, even Nevada.
(21:00):
These states could really, really really benefit from a strong
messaging game and ground game directed at black voters. So
That's that's one thing, right. I think the other thing, though,
is the message itself, all right, and a lot of them,
from the work I've done, a lot of a lot
of the low propensity unlikely Black voters have a hard
(21:21):
time buying into messages that suggest the Democrats or anyone
for that matter, is going to pass substantive policy that's
going to affect their day to day lives. It's just
a really hard sell these voters, many of them are
either apathetic or all the way alienated from politics. They
feel like politicians don't speak to them or don't care
about them, and they really feel like they have nothing
(21:43):
to gain from casting a vote. And so it's really
hard to say things like well, I'm going to create
an economic opportunity economy that's gonna, you know, have all
of these effects on you when they're sitting there, like,
the last time I remember actually having an effect on
my individual life was a stimulus check, and Trump's talking
about that, yeah, And so it's hard to make that
(22:05):
case because a lot of the policies that are passed
at the federal level take a long time to trickle
down to people's individual lives, and if they do affect
their lives. It's in a very complex way that they
might not even understand. Right. A lot of people don't
necessarily understand the way that the Affordable Care Act open
doors for them to access healthcare and doctors that they
(22:26):
have now. Right. And if you break it down and
you say, oh, hey, do you like that that new
hospital was built and that you can now go there
because it's in network, they'll say, yeah, I love it.
But they don't connect that back to the federal policy
that open that door. Yeah, And so you have to
have a different policy conversation or a different conversation altogether
with these types of voters.
Speaker 1 (22:47):
This concludes part one of our two part conversation with
Christopher Taller, PhD, the director of the Black Voter Project,
co founder of Black Insights Research, and the editor in
chief of the Journal of Race, Ethnicity and Policy. Check
back in with us tomorrow for part two right here
on the Black Information Network Daily Podcast.
Born out of a desire to emphasize the instrumental role
Black voters play in our understanding of American politics. The
Black Voter Project public opinion surveys explore African American political attitudes, behavior,
and voting in ways that are often unexamined. With a
focus on contemporary issues in politics, expertise and political history,
(00:21):
and survey design allows for unique insights into African American
mobilization and social movement organization. Extreme political polarization makes Black
political turnout a necessity for progressive politics today. Christopher Towler,
PhD is an associate professor in the Department of Political
Science at California State University, Sacramento. He is the director
(00:45):
of the Black Voter Project, co founder of Black Insights Research,
the editor in chief of the Journal of Race, Ethnicity
and Politics, and he is our guest today. This is
the Black Information Network Daily Podcast and I'm your host, Rams' job.
All right, Christopher Tyler, Welcome to the show. I have
(01:06):
been so looking forward to our conversation. How are you
doing today?
Speaker 2 (01:11):
I'm doing great. Thank you so much for having me.
I'm so excited to be here and to have this
important conversation on block voters.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
Absolutely. Now you know, I talked a little bit about
your background, but a standard practice on this show give
our listeners a little bit of background on who you are,
where you grow up, what you studied in school, and
sort of what fueled your passion to you know, ultimately
lead you to this conversation we're having today.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
Yeah, I'm originally from Colorado, so I grew up in
the Boulder, Denver area, did my undergraduate work there, born
and raised as a buff and then ended up at
the University of Washington and Seattle for my graduate studies.
I started graduate school in two thousand and seven, so
my first year there was Obama's election, which really politicized
(01:58):
me in ways that I never really am as it
were possible, pushing me to want to investigate and interrogate
black voters. For the rest of my career, It's continued
to push me in that way, and so throughout graduate
school I tried to do research, original projects and complete
analysis on black voters. And what I came to find
(02:19):
was there was not much original data, new data, contemporary
data on black voters whatsoever. And the data that was
out there was very limited and not really focused on politics,
which was really surprising considering I'm going through all of
this as I'm watching the first black president come to
power and change the face of the White House. And
(02:40):
so almost immediately following graduate school, when I got my
first position at a small liberal arts school in Washington State,
Western Washington University, I started a pilot study that I
called the Black Voter Project as my attempt to create
a database and start collecting data on black voters, as
there was a sort of gap of major gap in
(03:02):
data on this group in graduate school, and it'd become
my passion again always wanting to study black people, in
study Black America and black history. Just being there during
that period with Obama and graduate school pushed me to
want to make this right and offer some sense of
real empirical data and research to what's what was already
(03:25):
out there. Since then, I moved to Sacramento State University
in twenty seventeen, and I've been able to continue to
collect data and add different data sets to what is
now an ongoing series of data specific to Black voters
that I've called the Black Voter Project, culminating now in
this twenty twenty four election series, where we've collected two
(03:47):
waves so far and are collecting two more waves of
election data specific to black voters. And so we're determined
to collect very accurate and reliable data that uses large
enough samples that we can say a lot of things
about Black voters that really isn't out there based on
any data or any real research.
Speaker 1 (04:08):
You know what, I have to imagine that this time
in your life, you have to be busier than ever.
Absolutely slammed. We obviously covered the headlines, and back when
Joe Biden was the presumed nominee for president, we noticed
(04:32):
that some support was slipping away from Joe Biden from
a historically reliable base of African American voters, particularly African
American men. And now that Kamala Harris is the candidate
on the top of the ticket, we're having to have
(04:57):
the same conversations and yet different conversation, perhaps for different reasons,
with those same black men. So this is an interesting
time for us. It has to be an interesting time
for you. Having gathered all this data, I'm sure that
lots of folks are knocking on your door trying to
get you to make sense of it. And I'm going
to be no different. You know, our listeners and you know,
(05:21):
because this is something that we're navigating. Here is something
we're trying to figure out what the disconnect is. So
do us a favor. Let's start at the beginning. Why
do you think you know black men have recently been
defecting from the Democratic voter base. What reasons have you encountered?
Speaker 2 (05:41):
So, yes, slamed is an understatement. I appreciate all the
calls I get because I've been waiting for years to
be able to speak to these issues with real, good, reliable,
accurate data. So this is really important. But at the
same time, I'm going to push back on the narrative
a little bit and suggest that much of the discussion
(06:02):
and rhetoric around black support for Trump is overblown, and
that if you look at good data, if you look
at data that collects large samples, I'm talking five hundred
or more, right, my data sets to try to collect
at least a thousand. The data I collected back in
April has over two thousand black respondents. The data I
just collected in August has over sixteen hundred Black respondents.
(06:23):
And in those data sets that are black specific and
collect large enough samples, black support for Trump is no
higher than it was in twenty twenty and is hovering
right around its historical average dating all the way back
to the seventies, regardless of who the GOP candidate was.
And that goes for black men as well. Right, black men,
About twenty percent of Black men voted for Donald Trump
(06:45):
in twenty twenty, back when Biden was the nominee. My
data in other large, large black data sets had Black
support for Trump for men at right around twenty percent,
And since Harris has take and over, I've actually seen
that drop slightly to about eighteen percent among black men
and eleven to thirteen percent amongst the entire Black community.
(07:08):
So again right there around sort of these historical averages
and no different than what it was in twenty twenty.
So I think that a lot of the conversation around
Black support for Trump is overstated. But at the same time,
I'm not mad that the conversation has shifted back to
black voters and we're now discussing what the black community needs,
because that's been something that we've needed to talk about
(07:30):
for a while now.
Speaker 1 (07:32):
Yeah. Yeah, So for those who are by the way,
thank you for that. I believe it or not. I
have to go to a like I believe we're presenting
civic Cipher is presenting so myself in my coast of
our radio show, we're presenting a panel and a discussion
(07:54):
for black men. It's called Courageous Conversations. And this conversation
that I'm having with you is so meaningful going into
that that's going to be in the next maybe twenty
four to forty eight hours. I had to have to
check my calendar. But this is definitely something that has
all of us, you know, fully engaged, who are trying
to get to the bottom of this. So, you know,
(08:15):
I want to I want to circle back. I appreciate
that response because it makes me feel a lot better
and breathe a little easier, because I just, you know,
I worry about us. You know, there there's I had
never seen anything like that, and of course my reality
didn't reflect that. But you know, when enough people tell
you something is true, you start to believe it. So again,
(08:36):
I appreciate the the insight into the fact that it's overblown.
But the fact is, there are some black men who
will not, you know, throw the support behind Democrats. There
were some black men who would not throw their support
behind Joe Biden and there are some black men who
(08:59):
can not and will not the other support behind Kamala Harris,
and that is their right. What I'm what I want
to know is maybe the why again some of the
some of the things you may have encountered, because that
part feels a little tough. You know, when it was Obama,
(09:20):
it felt like, you know, there was there was a moment.
And now that it's Kamala and I'm sure you understand
the connection between Obama and Kamala, then both being black candidates,
you would imagine that there'd be it would be something
that would be very easy for black men to get behind.
Speaker 2 (09:38):
Let's just be clear here, right, most black men are
behind Kamala Harris and have gotten behind her campaign. Four
out of five black men who are voting say they
will vote for Harris, right, And so we're talking about
that one out of five who we're trying to figure out, Okay,
why won't they get on board? And if we really
look at the data I mentioned the latest date I
(09:59):
collect at about eighteen percent of black men said they
were going to vote for Trump. Of those eighteen percent,
about nine to ten percent are Republican, so they are
conservative and they will probably vote for the Republican candidate,
no matter who it is. Right, So we're really only
talking about seven eight percent of the population of black men,
(10:22):
right that we're trying to really zone in on here
and figure out what's going on. And so in conversations
we've had in focus groups with these black men, one,
they tend to be more low propensity voters. Again, we're
talking about black men who voting for Trump, who are
not already sort of GOP diehards, right, they tend to
(10:43):
be low propensity voters. They tend to be sort of
less knowledgeable about politics, not really paying attention much, less interested,
and so they are more susceptible to GOP talking points,
to sort of the far right misinformation campaigns suggesting that
Trump is actually for black voters, or that Trump has
you know, the greatest unemployment. I mean, he said multiple
(11:05):
times he's the best candidate for the black community since
Abraham Lincoln, right, the best president since Lincoln. And if
you don't know anything about politics, and that's all you hear,
as you said, right, you might actually start to buy
into that. And that's some of what's taking place. And again,
this small corner of the black community with this very
(11:26):
fraction of black men. However, we have recently taken the
data and tried to sort of model this out, and
what we're also finding is that it's primarily among younger
black men, black men who are less attached to the
Democratic Party to start with, so those who are more independent,
and one thing that's that's really moderating all of this
(11:46):
is their view of Trump. And so if black men
do not see Trump as a threat, that is going
to be one of the most important factors as to
whether or not they support him. So again, sort of
a naivete if you will, about the Trump administration and
what Trump did during his presidency and what he continues
to promise to do if he were to win election.
Speaker 1 (12:07):
Again, if my voice didn't matter, people wouldn't be trying
so hard to silence me, and if my vote didn't matter,
they wouldn't work so hard to take it away. So
you know why I'm voting this November because I know
they don't want me to.
Speaker 3 (12:20):
Your voice is powerful, your voice matters. Don't let your
voice be silenced. To register, confirm your voting status, or
get information about voting in your area, visit vote dot gov.
That's vote dot goov a message from the Perception Institute
and the Black Information Network.
Speaker 1 (12:38):
We are here today with Christopher Towler, Associate professor in
the Department of Political Science at California State University, Sacramento,
director of the Black Voter Project, and the editor in
chief of the Journal of Race, Ethnicity and Politics. Sure sure,
you know. One of the things that I brushed up
against is you know, you mentioned a lot of these
(13:02):
folks are younger voters. But what I've come across is
folks telling me about some of the older voters that
are black, and they're you know, they're they're not comfortable
with the idea of a woman serving in the presidency.
(13:23):
These are like the old church guys that they would
refuse to attend a church where there's a woman pastor.
Some of the folks, the younger folks that maybe they're
not trumpers, but some of the younger folks that I
know of who are black men are very critical of
(13:45):
this nation's and rightfully so, in my opinion, very critical
of this nation's response to the Israel Palestine War. You know,
other factors, you know include you know, as you mentioned,
some black men have attached themselves to some of the
(14:05):
lower hanging GOP talking points or Trump talking points. You
know that he's good for business, you know, these black
men or entrepreneurs, these black men that espouse the idea
of being self made and think that everyone has the
same access to you know, the same materials because we
all have the same twenty four hours in a day,
rather than the fact that some people are just lucky.
(14:27):
You know, that's that's really it. I'm not in this
position because and I said this before on the show,
but I'm not in this position because of anything special.
You know, of course I'm smart, everyone's smart. Of Course
I work hard. Everybody works hard every day. You know,
I'm just lucky. I'm from Compton. If I never got
out of Compton, i'd be a gangbanger, you know, that
would be my story. But I made it out because
(14:47):
of some decisions other people made. So you know, it's
I think it's these black men that I've encountered in
these narratives that I've encountered that have made this particularly
challenging for me, because, as you mentioned, a lot of
these folks are kind of low information voters or voters
that are you know, maybe you know, they they have
(15:08):
one issue that really works for them. So I appreciate
the clarification there. I know that Obama also made some
remarks recently. I'm not sure if you heard those. Yeah, okay,
so yeah, I was aware, Okay, okay. So his remarks
on black men, he says, quote, part of me, sorry, sorry,
part of it makes me think and I'm speaking to
(15:29):
them indirectly, part of it makes me think that, well,
you just aren't feeling the idea of having a woman
as president, and you're coming up with other alternatives and
other reasons for that. And that's the end of his quote.
That's that's not something that has been as pronounced in
your data, has it.
Speaker 2 (15:46):
Yeah? So I think right off the bet, it's important
to say, right, sexism and misogyny is president in every
corner of America, right out of your race, ethnic group.
It's going to be there. It's a factor. It's built
into a Maria patriarchy. So, right, we do need to
have these conversations and at a very minimum a knowledge
that it's there and it's at play among black voters
(16:09):
as well, right, and that there are absolutely black men
who say I'm not going to vote for Harris or
I can't support Harris because she's a woman, right, regardless
of any of their other beliefs. I think when we
look at Obama's quote though, in him talking specifically to
black men, he really is, though, talking to this small
fraction of black men again who he's trying to convince.
(16:31):
And I'm not sure if that was the correct audience
that he was speaking to, right, because the people who
was talking to were campaign workers, so they were unlikely
to be the sort of unlikely knowledge voters. Right, Yeah,
Echo chamber, they're already there, they're already brought in, right,
And so the conversation. This is all to say, the
conversation needs to happen. It is an important conversation, sure,
(16:52):
but it's one that probably needs to happen within the community,
right where maybe behind closed doors, where there's there's more
opportunity to have a discussion with different people in the
black community about this without the media there, right, which
is probably impossible if you're Obama in this day and age, Right,
it's going to be tough to have those conversations out
(17:14):
in the open without having something like that eclip just
being grabbed up and run with. And so we're trying
to measure those things to take a look at the
role that misogyny will play and has played in this
election in the black community, because we know it's there, right,
But again, I just I just hesitate from trying to
zone too far in on this really small percent of
(17:35):
Black men who are not already diehard gopers who are
not going to support Harris. Right to me, there's a
much bigger question here and a much bigger message about
why people should vote altogether, And a lot of the
work that I've done leading up to this point has
looked at turnout and trying to get Black people who
might be low propensity, who might be unlikely voters to
(17:57):
get engaged and interested in politics in and using different
different messages, in different frameworks and ideas to get them
off the couch into the polls. Because there are far
more Black voters, far more Black men who are just
gonna sit this one out who would probably vote for
Harris than there are voting for Trump altogether.
Speaker 1 (18:16):
So let's talk about them then, because I would imagine
that with a relatively speaking, exciting candidate like Kamala Harris
in the arena, and of course she put some agenda
(18:37):
elements that are specific to black men in America in
her in her agenda on her website. We came across
this maybe three four days ago. I would imagine that
those low propensity voters, those people that would rather sit
this one out, would have enough reason to get out.
What would you say is keeping those people from voting?
(18:59):
Is it the message?
Speaker 3 (19:00):
Is it?
Speaker 1 (19:00):
You know? And if it is messaging, what sort of
messaging gets these people motivated?
Speaker 3 (19:06):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (19:06):
I think right now a lot of the people that
still remain out of the elector one are people that
just aren't being reached and so they're not being messaged,
they're not being talked to, they're not door isn't being
knocked on, they're not talking to people about politics. And
so there's a logistics here where you know, Harris already
started sort of behind the started late if you will,
(19:31):
right taking the nomination in July, late July, and so
there's there's a disadvantage there for her campaign trying to
figure all this out on the fly in a few months.
But it's really really important that the money is spent
to get the messages out there, that targeted messages to
the black community. To have messages, money spent to have
(19:53):
messages on black paid media to have messages going out there,
you know, on flyers, on the radio, in the news,
as well as having people on the ground, partnering with
organizations across different states and across different communities and giving
them the money to do the work. Right. And we
saw that be really really instrumental to Georgia in twenty twenty.
(20:15):
Turning Georgia blue was on the backs of the grassroots
organizations Black Voters Matter there and other organizations really being
on the ground and doing bus tours around the state
registering Black people to vote, getting them out and off
their couches, impressioning upon them how important it is to
actually vote, making it so that Georgia come twenty twenty
(20:35):
turned blue and then eventually leading to Warnock's successful Senate
bid in twenty twenty two. Right, And so that's just
one example, but we'd love to see that take place
all over the country, especially in these battleground states that
have significant black populations that can shift the electorate their
states like North Carolina, Michigan, Pennsylvania in particular, right, even Nevada.
(21:00):
These states could really, really really benefit from a strong
messaging game and ground game directed at black voters. So
That's that's one thing, right. I think the other thing, though,
is the message itself, all right, and a lot of them,
from the work I've done, a lot of a lot
of the low propensity unlikely Black voters have a hard
(21:21):
time buying into messages that suggest the Democrats or anyone
for that matter, is going to pass substantive policy that's
going to affect their day to day lives. It's just
a really hard sell these voters, many of them are
either apathetic or all the way alienated from politics. They
feel like politicians don't speak to them or don't care
about them, and they really feel like they have nothing
(21:43):
to gain from casting a vote. And so it's really
hard to say things like well, I'm going to create
an economic opportunity economy that's gonna, you know, have all
of these effects on you when they're sitting there, like,
the last time I remember actually having an effect on
my individual life was a stimulus check, and Trump's talking
about that, yeah, And so it's hard to make that
(22:05):
case because a lot of the policies that are passed
at the federal level take a long time to trickle
down to people's individual lives, and if they do affect
their lives. It's in a very complex way that they
might not even understand. Right. A lot of people don't
necessarily understand the way that the Affordable Care Act open
doors for them to access healthcare and doctors that they
(22:26):
have now. Right. And if you break it down and
you say, oh, hey, do you like that that new
hospital was built and that you can now go there
because it's in network, they'll say, yeah, I love it.
But they don't connect that back to the federal policy
that open that door. Yeah, And so you have to
have a different policy conversation or a different conversation altogether
with these types of voters.
Speaker 1 (22:47):
This concludes part one of our two part conversation with
Christopher Taller, PhD, the director of the Black Voter Project,
co founder of Black Insights Research, and the editor in
chief of the Journal of Race, Ethnicity and Policy. Check
back in with us tomorrow for part two right here
on the Black Information Network Daily Podcast.
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