October 18, 2023 • 20 mins
Ted X Speaker and Trans Activist Mea Chiasson joins Host Ramses Ja for a conversation on pronoun usage and Mia's decision to become a Civil Rights attorney. Part 1 of 2 part series.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
This is the Black Information Network Daily podcast, and I
am your host Ramsey's job. And sometimes the amount of
stories that make their way to us means that we
simply can't cover everything that comes our way. But from
time to time, a story just stays with me and
I feel compelled to share it with you and give
you my thoughts. And now one more thing I don't Okay.
(00:33):
So I have a dear friend, someone that I love
with my whole heart. And this individual is a flower
in bloom. This individual is dynamic. We all are, but
(00:59):
I've been able to observe some specific changes, adaptations. Whatever
the language is, I'm about to learn it with you
in real time on this show. I think it's important.
I will always say that it's important that we learn
(01:22):
how to love people, and we teach people how to
love us. And recently, in recent years, I should say,
in this country, we've been having conversations about how people
wish to be identified, specifically with respect to their pronouns.
(01:46):
And I consider myself to be a woke individual, rather
be woke than asleep. But in the like the true
meaning of woke ism, very progressive in thinking, very accommodating
of my brothers and sisters that I share this planet with,
(02:07):
trying to live at peace and have the best, most
fulfilling experience with this life, but also advocate for the
best experience on this life for people who may not
have the same access as I do. And it's in
that spirit that I wanted to have today's conversation. So Maya,
(02:31):
welcome to the show.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
In brief, I want you to know a little bit
about the person we're talking about, so i'll pay a picture.
I met Maya when she was seventeen. She came to
my house from out of town, and I am a
grown man and you're older than that now, of course,
(03:01):
But when I first met you came to my house
and the idea was to learn to DJ. I've shared
on the show many times that I'm a DJ, but
you also told me something that was very profound. You said,
I'm going to school to become a civil rights attorney.
And that moved me because Maya is white. Maya's mother
(03:25):
and father are white. They are both doctors. So if
you know like I know, you know that that means
that Maya did not have to be a civil rights attorney.
Maya could have did anything that she wanted to. But
that's I think that kind of shows her heart being
born with considerably less in the way of obstacles and
(03:49):
problems that you would anticipate on your path to whatever
it is you wanted to be. You choose to take
the hard route for the benefit of someone else, people
that don't even look like you, some people who might
even be angry with people who look like you for
the position that they're in. It's a lot to reconcile
if you've done that by age seventeen, what I said
makes sense. What I said was anything you need down
(04:15):
forever you call me, I got you. And when Maya
announced to me that she had changed her pronouns to
better reflect so she forgive me again. I'm learning right now.
(04:36):
When Maya announced the changing of pronouns, I naturally would
accommodate anybody to the best I can. I make mistakes.
There's other people I know who identify as they. They've
(04:57):
changed the pronouns from she to he. You know, these
sorts of things, And I feel really bad because I
want to I want to make sure that everyone knows
that it's a safe space. I got you. I would
protect you, but it's language and it's I guess it's
wired into a different part of your brain.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
So and I still know that even if he gets
the language wrong.
Speaker 1 (05:18):
I appreciate that. But this you've tasked your brother with
honoring you as you are blossoming and blooming, and so
that responsibility is still mine. I appreciate the grace, but
the responsibilities of mine. What I wanted to ask now
that we've painted this picture is for you to talk
(05:39):
us through what it means to go from having one
set of pronouns to another set of pronouns, and how
does that fulfill you. I figured the benefit would help
(06:02):
us people who are coming to terms with pronouns and
adjusting pronouns. It will help us to be better brothers
and sisters to those of us who are evolving. Okay,
Glory of yours. You can edit this right, of course,
of course.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
Okay, Well I've told you this, but to kind of recount,
I first started shifting my pronouns in February of twenty twenty. Okay,
so it's been like three and a half years now
when I first started using she they, And it started
really just as I had a friend who started to
use different pronouns and I kind of thought to myself, like,
(06:50):
how would I feel about they in reference to me?
And then I kind of pushed the thought aside. And
at that point I had already identified as for my sexuality,
but I had not thought about gender. And then the
thought came up again. And then I had a friend
come to visit and I was telling her about it,
(07:12):
and I hadn't told anyone about it at that point,
and we were laying on my floor and I was
sobbing because it was hitting something and I didn't understand.
I had no idea. I hadn't really thought about it.
So I started to use shee that I to try
it out to see how it felt, and it unlocked
(07:32):
something that I didn't know needed to be unlocked. And
when I think back on my relationship to gender, I
didn't ever feel when I was younger, I didn't feel
tied to being girl. I always liked that I there
are a lot of spaces which I could just be
one of the boys, I could just be myself, and
that gender wasn't a roadblock in that in terms of
(07:55):
me having friends, and I didn't feel attached to the
identity of being a woman, except for when it came
to my experience of living under patriarchy, like I knew
what it meant to connect to other women, about the
experience of like a glance on the street that is
like very sexualizing and feels deeply uncomfortable and sometimes violent,
(08:15):
like that's an experience, or being discounted on being able
to do whatever it was like being a DJ, for example,
wanting to be DJ. I recognized that it was like, Okay,
I understand that there are so few DJs that I
see that look like me in the sense of the
(08:35):
body type that I have that I'm assigned female at Earth.
It was mostly sis men that I was seeing djaying,
so I felt connected in that way, but it was
not necessarily I feel like a woman, but I didn't
think about it that much. I started using shida, and
then for a few years it became more comfortable and
(08:57):
felt more right. I realized I only heard my my
friends using they them for me. I don't really hear
many people refer to me as she, except for my mom,
who you know. She's known about this since I started
using different pronouns, but it has taken a long It
takes time for the language to just I know that
she loves me. I know that it's taking time for
her to understand what this means in terms of identity change,
(09:18):
and also that like it's hard for her to she,
you know, had spent that point twenty one years only
using she, and so for her to use something else,
it's taking time, right. And then I came home from
a trip where I spent some time alone last summer
about a year ago, and I heard someone refer to
(09:41):
me as she. I guess, okay, getting a little off track,
That's okay, I'll come back around. I heard someone use
I heard someone say like, oh she blah blah blah,
and I had a moment of being like, what are
you talking about? Fancy anyone else around?
Speaker 1 (09:57):
Oh, that's me.
Speaker 2 (09:59):
You're talking about me? And it just did not It
felt like they were talking about someone else. I think
that since I've used them, since I've started using they them,
and I think this whole sort of experience of using
different pronouns. I was describing it to a friend last night.
Actually it felt like I was in a room and
(10:21):
I saw I was in this room. I saw that
there was a door that said man, right, and I
was like, that's not the door for me, I don't
want to walk through that doesn't feel like the right door.
And I saw a door out of the corner of
my eye. Okay, I didn't really think or you know,
I just learned about the door. Because also I think
using they them is relatively newer. Right, It's not that
(10:44):
non binary people are new, but I think this change
in like pronouns is relatively new within the past like
several years and becoming more popular and whatnot. It was
like I saw the door out of the corner of
my eye. I hadn't really thought, like do I want
to walk to that door? And then I was like,
I'm looking at the door. Maybe, you know, maybe I
(11:04):
might peek through it, but I'm not sure do I
really need to open this door? Like I know this
room and maybe not doesn't feel like the best room,
but it's a room that I know. And then I
opened that door and I'm in a new room, and
I was like, oh my gosh, I didn't know. I
had no idea what could be waiting beside this door.
And and then in that room in this analogy, that's
(11:24):
like she they, I see this other door, right, I
see they them, and I see more doors because Also,
now that I'm starting to think about gender, I understand
that there are different combinations of pronouns, and that pronouns
are also one thing around like gender, that doesn't necessarily
determine your gender. And it also doesn't you know, I
(11:46):
could have I see hee him there, I see he they.
I say that I see they she, I see they them.
But I see all of these doors. But I see
the day them door like again in the corner of
my eye, and it's like, okay, I see it. It
doesn't really feel right. But then like over time, I'm like, Okay,
this room is feeling better. But then start the room
starts to feel a little bit too small, and I
see this door and it's again I think about the
(12:08):
door because I thought about using them. It's like, do
I really need to walk through this door? Like I
don't know, people are still gonna call me she you know,
what's the But I think about this door and I
start to move close to the door. I'm like, you
know what, might as well try.
Speaker 1 (12:21):
Opening the door and let's see.
Speaker 2 (12:23):
And it's just like it's like you It's like I
opened to the door and I'm no longer in a building.
Speaker 1 (12:29):
It's oh, wow. It it is.
Speaker 2 (12:31):
So expansive and I have and that's how it's felt.
I think. To use these pronouns, I continue to feel
like there's more and more space for me within it.
I continue to learn more about myself. It gives me
more freedom internally. I just can't. It feels free.
Speaker 1 (12:51):
That's how it feels. So let me let me ask
you this when you talk about it feeling free. I
I guess maybe for a lot of us that our
pronouns are there, they have roots, They're not changing at all.
(13:12):
There's no need not the changing anything is bad or
nothing like that. But I just kind of know me,
you know what I mean. I guess that's it. I
guess that's it. I think I'm answering my own question
because I know me. I know who I am, I
know the sound of my voice. I know when it's
(13:34):
me talking, and I know when someone is talking about me.
And maybe if I didn't have that security of knowing
those things around myself, then maybe I might explore the
different rooms to borrow from your analogy to see if
there's something that works a little bit better. One of
(13:56):
the things that a lot of folks push back against
is that many of the people who are changing their pronouns,
they tend to be young. You mentioned that you kind
of went through this when you were about twenty one.
But a big part of this country is concerned with
(14:23):
I don't even know if I'm saying this right, but
they're unnecessarily concerned with what I will describe here at
least as a trans agenda, and they've lumped in the
changing of pronouns by younger people into that narrative. Now,
(14:44):
I want to say something because I just know this
part is true. I don't believe that that is a
real thing. I think that when people learn a very
small piece about someone's sexuality, they then define them as
(15:06):
one hundred percent sexual all the time. Right. If I
was to say I'm polyamorous, for instance, then people would
think that I'm just that I'm a full whole person.
I go on boats, I cross bridges, and there's one
part of my life that has that, you know what
(15:26):
I'm saying. So I think when people think about trans people,
they think that that's one percent who they are. One
hundred percent of the time is their sexual expression, and
they're expressing that sexuality on percent time, And that's not true.
Another thing that I think is worth mentioning and I
want to get your thoughts is a lot of people
(15:49):
come to terms with their sexuality at a young age. Granted, sexuality,
from what I understand, it's fluid, or it can be fluid.
It can change different parts of your life, you know,
it's my understanding of the science of it. Yeah, but
for the most part, when people start awakening to their
sexual self, it happens at a younger age typically, And
(16:16):
I want to get your thoughts on I know you're
not trans, okay, so then there we go. So I
learned that too. So what I want you to do
is give us some insight into maybe how it feels
to be to bear witness to that attempt at chronicling
(16:37):
this narrative and kind of some of the things that
I said about, you know, people coming to terms with
their sexuality at a young age, and maybe there's the
agenda being imagined. Just kind of give me some feedback
on what I think at least, Yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:51):
I think, like, well, I think that's something that's been
interesting to watch in many different ways. Is that I
think we've come a lot farther in understanding that people
can understand their sexualities from a young age. Not everyone does,
and it is fluid, Like I think, things can change
(17:11):
over time. I didn't start using the language of queer
until I was nineteen, and it took me a long
time to realize like, oh, that's what that is. And
so I think that if we can see that with sexuality,
then I think that there's it's surprising to then see. Also,
I also think that can be true gender, right, it's
(17:33):
just like an understanding of who you are. And also
these things can change. I think when I think about well,
there are a couple of things that come to mind.
There's this non binary writer, poet speaker, I look Veidmanan.
They are someone who I really appreciate their input. They
(17:55):
have a beautiful book on called Beyond the Gender Binary,
which is like a really nice little intro into thinking
about beyond the gender binary. Anyways, one of the things
that they say oftentimes is and this isn't a direct quote,
but is that what folks are afraid of? That it's
not that people are afraid of gender queer people and
(18:17):
people who are exploring gender or present in different ways,
is that they're afraid of like what that means forever
for all that folks have had to suppress themselves. I
think that, like, while I don't think there's a transagenda,
I think that what I find in like trans and
non binary community is openings. It's like, okay, well what
(18:39):
if we take away these boxes? Right? What opens Like
what does it mean to express yourself via dress in
a way that feels the best for you?
Speaker 1 (18:50):
Yea?
Speaker 2 (18:51):
And that everyone should have access to color, to texture,
to different pieces of garments, like it's not And what
does it mean to be feminine? What does it mean
to be masculine? And I think it's a lot about
like opening up that there are so many ways to
be in this world and we don't have to just
be what's handed to us. And I think that that
(19:11):
and you know, encourages I think a lot of imagination,
a lot of creativity. It's like what's possible?
Speaker 1 (19:16):
Sure? Sure, So, so first off, I appreciate that.
Speaker 2 (19:22):
And.
Speaker 1 (19:23):
Let's do this. Let's put a pin in this, and
we'll come right back to it with a part two.
This has been a production of the Black Information Network.
Today's show is produced by Chris Thompson. Have some thoughts
you'd like to share? Use the red microphone talkback feature
on the iHeartRadio app. While you're there, be sure to
hit subscribe and download all of our episodes I'm Your Host,
(19:47):
Ramsey's Job on all social media. Join us tomorrow as
we share our news with our voice from our perspective
right here on the Black Information Network daily podcast Ferial
This is the Black Information Network Daily podcast, and I
am your host Ramsey's job. And sometimes the amount of
stories that make their way to us means that we
simply can't cover everything that comes our way. But from
time to time, a story just stays with me and
I feel compelled to share it with you and give
you my thoughts. And now one more thing I don't Okay.
(00:33):
So I have a dear friend, someone that I love
with my whole heart. And this individual is a flower
in bloom. This individual is dynamic. We all are, but
(00:59):
I've been able to observe some specific changes, adaptations. Whatever
the language is, I'm about to learn it with you
in real time on this show. I think it's important.
I will always say that it's important that we learn
(01:22):
how to love people, and we teach people how to
love us. And recently, in recent years, I should say,
in this country, we've been having conversations about how people
wish to be identified, specifically with respect to their pronouns.
(01:46):
And I consider myself to be a woke individual, rather
be woke than asleep. But in the like the true
meaning of woke ism, very progressive in thinking, very accommodating
of my brothers and sisters that I share this planet with,
(02:07):
trying to live at peace and have the best, most
fulfilling experience with this life, but also advocate for the
best experience on this life for people who may not
have the same access as I do. And it's in
that spirit that I wanted to have today's conversation. So Maya,
(02:31):
welcome to the show.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
In brief, I want you to know a little bit
about the person we're talking about, so i'll pay a picture.
I met Maya when she was seventeen. She came to
my house from out of town, and I am a
grown man and you're older than that now, of course,
(03:01):
But when I first met you came to my house
and the idea was to learn to DJ. I've shared
on the show many times that I'm a DJ, but
you also told me something that was very profound. You said,
I'm going to school to become a civil rights attorney.
And that moved me because Maya is white. Maya's mother
(03:25):
and father are white. They are both doctors. So if
you know like I know, you know that that means
that Maya did not have to be a civil rights attorney.
Maya could have did anything that she wanted to. But
that's I think that kind of shows her heart being
born with considerably less in the way of obstacles and
(03:49):
problems that you would anticipate on your path to whatever
it is you wanted to be. You choose to take
the hard route for the benefit of someone else, people
that don't even look like you, some people who might
even be angry with people who look like you for
the position that they're in. It's a lot to reconcile
if you've done that by age seventeen, what I said
makes sense. What I said was anything you need down
(04:15):
forever you call me, I got you. And when Maya
announced to me that she had changed her pronouns to
better reflect so she forgive me again. I'm learning right now.
(04:36):
When Maya announced the changing of pronouns, I naturally would
accommodate anybody to the best I can. I make mistakes.
There's other people I know who identify as they. They've
(04:57):
changed the pronouns from she to he. You know, these
sorts of things, And I feel really bad because I
want to I want to make sure that everyone knows
that it's a safe space. I got you. I would
protect you, but it's language and it's I guess it's
wired into a different part of your brain.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
So and I still know that even if he gets
the language wrong.
Speaker 1 (05:18):
I appreciate that. But this you've tasked your brother with
honoring you as you are blossoming and blooming, and so
that responsibility is still mine. I appreciate the grace, but
the responsibilities of mine. What I wanted to ask now
that we've painted this picture is for you to talk
(05:39):
us through what it means to go from having one
set of pronouns to another set of pronouns, and how
does that fulfill you. I figured the benefit would help
(06:02):
us people who are coming to terms with pronouns and
adjusting pronouns. It will help us to be better brothers
and sisters to those of us who are evolving. Okay,
Glory of yours. You can edit this right, of course,
of course.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
Okay, Well I've told you this, but to kind of recount,
I first started shifting my pronouns in February of twenty twenty. Okay,
so it's been like three and a half years now
when I first started using she they, And it started
really just as I had a friend who started to
use different pronouns and I kind of thought to myself, like,
(06:50):
how would I feel about they in reference to me?
And then I kind of pushed the thought aside. And
at that point I had already identified as for my sexuality,
but I had not thought about gender. And then the
thought came up again. And then I had a friend
come to visit and I was telling her about it,
(07:12):
and I hadn't told anyone about it at that point,
and we were laying on my floor and I was
sobbing because it was hitting something and I didn't understand.
I had no idea. I hadn't really thought about it.
So I started to use shee that I to try
it out to see how it felt, and it unlocked
(07:32):
something that I didn't know needed to be unlocked. And
when I think back on my relationship to gender, I
didn't ever feel when I was younger, I didn't feel
tied to being girl. I always liked that I there
are a lot of spaces which I could just be
one of the boys, I could just be myself, and
that gender wasn't a roadblock in that in terms of
(07:55):
me having friends, and I didn't feel attached to the
identity of being a woman, except for when it came
to my experience of living under patriarchy, like I knew
what it meant to connect to other women, about the
experience of like a glance on the street that is
like very sexualizing and feels deeply uncomfortable and sometimes violent,
(08:15):
like that's an experience, or being discounted on being able
to do whatever it was like being a DJ, for example,
wanting to be DJ. I recognized that it was like, Okay,
I understand that there are so few DJs that I
see that look like me in the sense of the
(08:35):
body type that I have that I'm assigned female at Earth.
It was mostly sis men that I was seeing djaying,
so I felt connected in that way, but it was
not necessarily I feel like a woman, but I didn't
think about it that much. I started using shida, and
then for a few years it became more comfortable and
(08:57):
felt more right. I realized I only heard my my
friends using they them for me. I don't really hear
many people refer to me as she, except for my mom,
who you know. She's known about this since I started
using different pronouns, but it has taken a long It
takes time for the language to just I know that
she loves me. I know that it's taking time for
her to understand what this means in terms of identity change,
(09:18):
and also that like it's hard for her to she,
you know, had spent that point twenty one years only
using she, and so for her to use something else,
it's taking time, right. And then I came home from
a trip where I spent some time alone last summer
about a year ago, and I heard someone refer to
(09:41):
me as she. I guess, okay, getting a little off track,
That's okay, I'll come back around. I heard someone use
I heard someone say like, oh she blah blah blah,
and I had a moment of being like, what are
you talking about? Fancy anyone else around?
Speaker 1 (09:57):
Oh, that's me.
Speaker 2 (09:59):
You're talking about me? And it just did not It
felt like they were talking about someone else. I think
that since I've used them, since I've started using they them,
and I think this whole sort of experience of using
different pronouns. I was describing it to a friend last night.
Actually it felt like I was in a room and
(10:21):
I saw I was in this room. I saw that
there was a door that said man, right, and I
was like, that's not the door for me, I don't
want to walk through that doesn't feel like the right door.
And I saw a door out of the corner of
my eye. Okay, I didn't really think or you know,
I just learned about the door. Because also I think
using they them is relatively newer. Right, It's not that
(10:44):
non binary people are new, but I think this change
in like pronouns is relatively new within the past like
several years and becoming more popular and whatnot. It was
like I saw the door out of the corner of
my eye. I hadn't really thought, like do I want
to walk to that door? And then I was like,
I'm looking at the door. Maybe, you know, maybe I
(11:04):
might peek through it, but I'm not sure do I
really need to open this door? Like I know this
room and maybe not doesn't feel like the best room,
but it's a room that I know. And then I
opened that door and I'm in a new room, and
I was like, oh my gosh, I didn't know. I
had no idea what could be waiting beside this door.
And and then in that room in this analogy, that's
(11:24):
like she they, I see this other door, right, I
see they them, and I see more doors because Also,
now that I'm starting to think about gender, I understand
that there are different combinations of pronouns, and that pronouns
are also one thing around like gender, that doesn't necessarily
determine your gender. And it also doesn't you know, I
(11:46):
could have I see hee him there, I see he they.
I say that I see they she, I see they them.
But I see all of these doors. But I see
the day them door like again in the corner of
my eye, and it's like, okay, I see it. It
doesn't really feel right. But then like over time, I'm like, Okay,
this room is feeling better. But then start the room
starts to feel a little bit too small, and I
see this door and it's again I think about the
(12:08):
door because I thought about using them. It's like, do
I really need to walk through this door? Like I
don't know, people are still gonna call me she you know,
what's the But I think about this door and I
start to move close to the door. I'm like, you
know what, might as well try.
Speaker 1 (12:21):
Opening the door and let's see.
Speaker 2 (12:23):
And it's just like it's like you It's like I
opened to the door and I'm no longer in a building.
Speaker 1 (12:29):
It's oh, wow. It it is.
Speaker 2 (12:31):
So expansive and I have and that's how it's felt.
I think. To use these pronouns, I continue to feel
like there's more and more space for me within it.
I continue to learn more about myself. It gives me
more freedom internally. I just can't. It feels free.
Speaker 1 (12:51):
That's how it feels. So let me let me ask
you this when you talk about it feeling free. I
I guess maybe for a lot of us that our
pronouns are there, they have roots, They're not changing at all.
(13:12):
There's no need not the changing anything is bad or
nothing like that. But I just kind of know me,
you know what I mean. I guess that's it. I
guess that's it. I think I'm answering my own question
because I know me. I know who I am, I
know the sound of my voice. I know when it's
(13:34):
me talking, and I know when someone is talking about me.
And maybe if I didn't have that security of knowing
those things around myself, then maybe I might explore the
different rooms to borrow from your analogy to see if
there's something that works a little bit better. One of
(13:56):
the things that a lot of folks push back against
is that many of the people who are changing their pronouns,
they tend to be young. You mentioned that you kind
of went through this when you were about twenty one.
But a big part of this country is concerned with
(14:23):
I don't even know if I'm saying this right, but
they're unnecessarily concerned with what I will describe here at
least as a trans agenda, and they've lumped in the
changing of pronouns by younger people into that narrative. Now,
(14:44):
I want to say something because I just know this
part is true. I don't believe that that is a
real thing. I think that when people learn a very
small piece about someone's sexuality, they then define them as
(15:06):
one hundred percent sexual all the time. Right. If I
was to say I'm polyamorous, for instance, then people would
think that I'm just that I'm a full whole person.
I go on boats, I cross bridges, and there's one
part of my life that has that, you know what
(15:26):
I'm saying. So I think when people think about trans people,
they think that that's one percent who they are. One
hundred percent of the time is their sexual expression, and
they're expressing that sexuality on percent time, And that's not true.
Another thing that I think is worth mentioning and I
want to get your thoughts is a lot of people
(15:49):
come to terms with their sexuality at a young age. Granted, sexuality,
from what I understand, it's fluid, or it can be fluid.
It can change different parts of your life, you know,
it's my understanding of the science of it. Yeah, but
for the most part, when people start awakening to their
sexual self, it happens at a younger age typically, And
(16:16):
I want to get your thoughts on I know you're
not trans, okay, so then there we go. So I
learned that too. So what I want you to do
is give us some insight into maybe how it feels
to be to bear witness to that attempt at chronicling
(16:37):
this narrative and kind of some of the things that
I said about, you know, people coming to terms with
their sexuality at a young age, and maybe there's the
agenda being imagined. Just kind of give me some feedback
on what I think at least, Yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:51):
I think, like, well, I think that's something that's been
interesting to watch in many different ways. Is that I
think we've come a lot farther in understanding that people
can understand their sexualities from a young age. Not everyone does,
and it is fluid, Like I think, things can change
(17:11):
over time. I didn't start using the language of queer
until I was nineteen, and it took me a long
time to realize like, oh, that's what that is. And
so I think that if we can see that with sexuality,
then I think that there's it's surprising to then see. Also,
I also think that can be true gender, right, it's
(17:33):
just like an understanding of who you are. And also
these things can change. I think when I think about well,
there are a couple of things that come to mind.
There's this non binary writer, poet speaker, I look Veidmanan.
They are someone who I really appreciate their input. They
(17:55):
have a beautiful book on called Beyond the Gender Binary,
which is like a really nice little intro into thinking
about beyond the gender binary. Anyways, one of the things
that they say oftentimes is and this isn't a direct quote,
but is that what folks are afraid of? That it's
not that people are afraid of gender queer people and
(18:17):
people who are exploring gender or present in different ways,
is that they're afraid of like what that means forever
for all that folks have had to suppress themselves. I
think that, like, while I don't think there's a transagenda,
I think that what I find in like trans and
non binary community is openings. It's like, okay, well what
(18:39):
if we take away these boxes? Right? What opens Like
what does it mean to express yourself via dress in
a way that feels the best for you?
Speaker 1 (18:50):
Yea?
Speaker 2 (18:51):
And that everyone should have access to color, to texture,
to different pieces of garments, like it's not And what
does it mean to be feminine? What does it mean
to be masculine? And I think it's a lot about
like opening up that there are so many ways to
be in this world and we don't have to just
be what's handed to us. And I think that that
(19:11):
and you know, encourages I think a lot of imagination,
a lot of creativity. It's like what's possible?
Speaker 1 (19:16):
Sure? Sure, So, so first off, I appreciate that.
Speaker 2 (19:22):
And.
Speaker 1 (19:23):
Let's do this. Let's put a pin in this, and
we'll come right back to it with a part two.
This has been a production of the Black Information Network.
Today's show is produced by Chris Thompson. Have some thoughts
you'd like to share? Use the red microphone talkback feature
on the iHeartRadio app. While you're there, be sure to
hit subscribe and download all of our episodes I'm Your Host,
(19:47):
Ramsey's Job on all social media. Join us tomorrow as
we share our news with our voice from our perspective
right here on the Black Information Network daily podcast Ferial
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