October 14, 2024 • 31 mins
Atlanta based reporter and news journalist Katie Gray joins Host Ramses Ja on today's podcast to discuss some of the major headlines from this past weekend.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Here at the Black Information Network, we know how important
it is for you to start your week off energized, engaged,
and enlightened. There are always major stories that break over
the weekend, and we feel you should know about the
ones we are talking about today, So stay tuned for
our weekend recap featuring Black Information Network news anchor Katie Gray.
This is the Black Information Network Daily Podcast, and I'm
(00:21):
your host, Ramsey Jah. All right, Katie Gray, welcome back
to the show. I haven't talked to you in some months.
What have you been up to. What's the latest?
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Yes, it's been way too long. I'm so excited to
actually sit down with you again. Honestly, obviously a whirlwind.
We've had so much news since the last time you
and I chatted. I mean it's a completely different scope,
you know.
Speaker 1 (00:42):
Yeah, absolutely, well, let's get to it. First. Up, this
from NBC retailer Bath and body Works apologize for a
candle promoted on its social media accounts displaying a snowflake
which some said appeared quite similar to a ku Klux
Klan hood. The snowflake in the image on the candle
featured two two holes on either side of its spindles.
Critics said the pattern looks similar to the white hoods
(01:04):
worn by members of the KKK, an American white supremacist
terrorist group that emerged after the Civil War and legal
slavery had ended, freeing millions of black people held in bondage.
The KKK is the oldest hate group in America, according
to the Southern Poverty Law Center, and was created to
enforce violence and terror against newly freed people. The candle
(01:24):
is no longer available for purchase on Bath and Bodyworks's website.
Quote at Bath and body Works, we are committed to
listening to our teams and customers and committed to fixing
any mistakes we make, even those that are unintentional like
this one, unquote, the company said in an emailed statement
to NBC News and other outlets. The statement goes on, quote,
we apologize to anyone we've offended and are swiftly working
(01:47):
to have this item removed and are evaluating our process
going forward. Quote So this one. I saw folks talking
about this on social media. This isn't the first time
I come across this story. What were your thoughts when
you first saw it?
Speaker 2 (02:02):
I had many thoughts. I do want to start out
with like the first, first, and foremost, like the way
that a company responds to criticism when it's brought to
their attention, I think speaks volumes. So I think that
it is worth noting that their first response when people
brought it to their attention was to pull it and
(02:23):
was to apologize, you know, to kind of recognize their
maybe miss overlook over what it could symbolize or what
it could resemble. But I also have some other further
questions too about you know, we've had some cases that
we've talked about before that you know that there has
to be like checks and balances before anything goes out.
(02:44):
You know, you have different committees, you have different board
members are looking at, you know, things you would hope
and it does also make me wonder, you know, how
it kind of got through those safety nets or I
guess in some ways maybe lack thereof makes me wonder
about like the backgrounds of the people that were viewing
it for them not to see something that someone else
(03:05):
or other people would you know, gather around and would
bring up, you know, what are your thoughts on it?
Speaker 1 (03:11):
Yeah, this one was I've actually seen a few examples
of this recently. One comes to mind it was an
Amazon advertisement, and you know the Amazon smile, It's like
kind of a smile with a little arrow on the
end of it. There was a piece of tape, so
(03:36):
if the smile is on a face, there was a
piece of tape like right about where the nose would be,
and the tape had a little jagged edge, so it
looked like a little Hitler mustache with the smile underneath it. Right.
So Amazon puts this image out saying, you know, promoting
like Prime Day or something like that. You know, if
you look up the article, I'm sure you'll find it.
But this just comes to mind as you were talking,
(03:58):
and you know, folks started saying, does not look like
Hitler's mustache. Like there's a smile and the little mustache
thing there because of the tape. And Amazon had to
catch their mistake. Oh my god, you know, this is
not what we intended. And they made you know, they
corrected their error. You know, nothing to see her. We
saw some ads recently from I believe it was Hins
(04:22):
and they were in Great Britain, if I'm not mistaken,
and there was a bride in a groom sitting at
a table in the ad. So there's five people in
the ad. It's centered on the bride, So there's two
people on her left, two people on her right. The
two people on her right are the groom's parents, and
(04:44):
the person to are left, of course, is the groom,
and the person to his left is her mother. Now,
the groom is white, the bride is black. Okay, so
there is no display of the black father in this advertisement.
I suspect because they wanted some symmetry, you know, with
the bride in the middle. But there were folks who
(05:07):
had a different set of sensibilities from the advertisers that
looked at this ad and says, okay, so where is
her father? Are you reinforcing stereotypes that black men are
not present in their roles as fathers, which you know,
folks like you and I know, is a debunked myth,
has been a long standing myth. Black men are no
(05:29):
more or less likely to abandon their families than anyone else,
and indeed, black men are the most engaged fathers of
all racial groups. This according to the CDC report released
in twenty thirteen. If I'm not mistaken, for folks that
want to go and review this data, black fathers are
actually the best of all categories of races. But you know,
(05:55):
the stereotype has been so well entrenched in society that
it has affected all of our sensitivities. Right, And then
of course what we're talking about today with you know,
the clan hood. You know, I'm thinking of another one.
You know, once upon a time H and M put
a little black boy in a shirt and the shirt
(06:16):
read coolest monkey in the Jungle, and people had an
issue with that because of course black people have historically
been referred to as subhuman, less evolved, you know, all
kinds of these these disgusting, insulting narratives that we've had
to endure, and so we are particularly sensitive to things
(06:40):
like this. And what I think that this example, in
these other examples show is how effective having a diverse
group of decision makers can save companies money and can
result in more effective advertising campaigns. So when folks look
(07:07):
at what is the point of d I, When folks
criticize DEI, when folks say that, you know, de I
stands for didn't earn it, and they don't look at
the benefits of how de I could have helped Colgate KFC.
You know, we've mentioned H and m what are we
talking about now, bath and bodyworks? Right? You see these
(07:28):
these mistakes that happen. These are wildly expensive mistakes when
folks roll out these campaigns and they invest millions of
dollars and they print up you know, PaperWorks and they've
you know, done this sort They paid everyone, and then
they have to go back and repay someone to do
a whole new thing because they approved it. Right, you
(07:49):
start to under and then they have to earn back
the trust of the public, which sometimes is more difficult
than just paying you know money. Twice, you start to
see how a diverse work workforce UH is beneficial to companies.
Add to that that, of course, UH, companies with diverse
(08:09):
workforces are overall more successful. And again the data on
that is well documented and well shared for folks that
want to check it out. So those are my early
thoughts on this one. But if I'm being one hundred
percent honest, I don't always catch it myself. So what
you want is someone who is qualified to have a
(08:32):
critical examination of advert ads and can see how they
could be problematic. Because when I first saw the photo,
I know that I wouldn't have even if I did
see clan hoods. I wouldn't have thought, oh, this is
like subtle racism. You know, a lot of the a
lot of the examples that I see, some of them,
I'm like, yo, y'all miss the mark. But when I
(08:54):
saw the bride and the in the ad that I
that I mentioned, I saw the symmetry. I saw it
was a wedding setting and they were trying to I
don't know, sell beans or whatever they were trying to do,
And my brain didn't even go to where's her father?
You know what I mean? So I think that what
this says is that you need the right people with
(09:14):
the right sensibilities and the right training. I often, as
I can cause or ask people to, you know, if
they don't know any better, err on the side of
trusting a black woman and listening to a black woman, because,
in my opinion and in my learned experience as well,
black women often have the sensibilities that around which I
(09:40):
would build my life. You know, I just I haven't
been steered wrong yet. If I want to err on,
like I said, if I want to make a mistake
and air on one side, and I'm painting with broad strokes,
empowering a black woman, trusting a black woman, listening to
a black woman, and following the leadership of a black woman.
I think that a lot of these things can be avoided.
(10:03):
So there's my two stents. I hopefully I put that
as as politically correctly as I possibly can. But that's
my advice.
Speaker 2 (10:13):
I mean, especially because even as you mentioned, I mean,
we're having to have these sparked conversations around when this happens,
because we're recognizing now culturally more than ever, symbols matter,
you know, and even as you mentioned, that's a very
expensive mistake to have to backpedal and have to figure
out how to pull back and then to you know,
(10:35):
go back.
Speaker 1 (10:35):
To the drawing board.
Speaker 2 (10:36):
When it is something that we understand, there are ways
to try to make sure that that's more preventable or
that it doesn't happen as often as you know, exactly.
Speaker 1 (10:49):
If you have one person on salary for ten years
and you avoid even one mistake like this, then that
person is because again if it's if it's dollars to
dollars and you don't end up losing any money because
you have a person in this position, then great. But again,
(11:12):
earning back the trust of the public that's the part
that's problematic. You know, I still have an issue, you
know sometimes when I go to Denny's, because I remember
a story when the Secret Service ended up suing Denny's
for discriminatory practices in their restaurant, and Denny's had to
(11:34):
really fall on that sword and say, yeah, you know,
this is a problem, and it's still with me. That
was probably twenty years ago, you know, but it's still
with me. So again, earning back that trust, Like if
there's an I Hop in a Denny's, go an I
hop because they haven't discriminated in so far as I
can tell against black people, So I don't want people
spending my food. You know, it takes a long time
(11:56):
to earn back that trust. And so you know, again
I say it might be worth it to have some
black voices at the table. And again, if you don't
know better, if you don't know better and you need
to make a decision quick, I would suggest that you
make the decision about a black woman and put her
(12:17):
at the head of the table, and then you can
avoid stuff like this way more often than you're going
to run into it anyway. Moving on, next story comes
from Fox five Atlanta, former Atlanta mayor Keisha Lance Bottoms
is going public after she said another local restaurant told
her she could not be seated due to what she
was wearing. Bottoms took to social media on Wednesday afternoon
(12:40):
to vent her frustrations. According to Bottoms, a hostess refused
her service because she was wearing yoga pants. Bottoms admitted
that the piece of clothing was quote supposedly against their
strictly enforced business casual policy excuse me, but said that
there were other people eating at the restaurant who had
on shorts, baseball caps, and flip flops. Manager offered to
(13:02):
seat the former mayor and her party within an hour,
but they chose to leave. So you know, this is
from what I understand, yoga pants are okay. I didn't
know that they were not okay, not okay? Yeah, yeah, no,
I mean it.
Speaker 2 (13:23):
I mean there was a there's a lot of pieces
to the story that was eye catching because you're right,
like on one level, it's like, I mean, technically, when
we think about businesses or I guess restaurants, I guess
they are allowed to set a dress code. I can
honestly say from personal experience, I don't usually go to
a lot of restaurants that have a strict, you know,
(13:43):
dress code, so I can't really speak to that, you know,
personally as much. But it is interesting, how you know.
I think the other thing that stood out from the
article is that she mentioned that this wasn't the first
time that this was this was another restaurant that she
had this incident at. And then I mean, obviously it
(14:05):
sounds like, you know, the reason why she's bringing it up,
or why she's bringing attention to it is if she
did notice other people and it didn't seem to be
you know, enforced across the board. But just pick and
choose which I think, you know, across the board managers
or people at work there, you do run the risk
(14:26):
of discrimination because if you're not enforcing it across the board,
you can't And you're right, I don't really I guess
I don't know if we have culturally had a conversation
about where leggings like kind of why I thought that
you're right, we have this was the athletic, where is
considered like you.
Speaker 1 (14:43):
Know, casual, where you're probably a much more fashionable individual
than I am. I got, I got a look that
works for me. And I just kind of roll with it.
But I'll take the.
Speaker 2 (14:55):
Same outfit that you wear.
Speaker 1 (14:57):
You just rotate. It's something like that. Yeah, I'm a
simple man, simple enough at least. But you know what
this reminds me of. So, you know, many of our
listeners know that I'm a DJ and a radio personality.
This is kind of my background, and so as a result,
I've DJed nightclubs for years, and as a result, I've
(15:26):
been to nightclubs to visit other DJs or to meet
with managers and owners. Now that I am an owner,
this doesn't happen as often, but you know, for many
years this was my story. And I recall dress code
policy enforcement in Scottsdale, Arizona, and how it was used
(15:52):
sometimes not all the time. It was used for some people,
not all people, and they had very specific things on
their dress code policy that you know, a person that
looked like me would be more likely to be wearing,
you know, no Jordan's. I remember this was back in
the day, no white teas, no visible jewelry, you know,
(16:17):
things like this, and you know, if there was a
white person that was wearing jewelry, they could go right in,
you know, but if I had any jewelry, they would
stop me at the door and say, hey, no, you
can't come in with the jewelry. All right, well I'll
take it off and put it in my pocket. No,
we've already you know, violated you. You can get in
(16:37):
there and put the jewelry on. I'll put it in
the car. No, we won't know if you have it. Okay.
You know they would pick they would they would just
pick something on your outfit. They had enough rules to uh,
basically violate anyone in line and keep anyone from going inside.
But you know a lot of these are open door
(16:58):
concept restaurants, so you can just look inside. You know,
Arizona's very warm, so you know, there's a lot of
ventilation in the buildings out there, so you can just
look inside and see people and flip flops and short
cargo shorts. You know, you're like, what about this guy, Well,
he got here earlier before the dress code policy was enforced.
He's been here the whole time, and they would always
(17:19):
have something for you. But you know, if that happens
to you nineteen times out of twenty, you know, every
time you're calling you know, the GM or the owner
and say Hey, look, I need you to come grab me,
and there come out and they apologize, I'm sorry, you
know how it is, you know that sort of thing,
and you know, you play that game for long enough,
you start to realize that this is the thing. So
when I look at Keisha lance Bottom's story and I
(17:44):
see what she's up against, it does feel like kind
of a similar story. Now I don't know who the
manager is. I don't know if this is a black
or white issue. It could simply just be a matter
of you know, the dress code, you know whatever, but
this story kind of feels like that. And even if
(18:04):
it's not racist, you know, there's some elements of like
classism there, right, And either way, it just it feels wrong.
If I'm here and I have the money to pay,
you know, and I'm not taking the aesthetic, or I
don't have some foul odor to me or something like that,
then it makes more sense to be very mindful how
(18:27):
you deal with people, especially in this age of social media,
because you know, as we're talking, companies' reputations are on
the line.
Speaker 3 (18:34):
Now.
Speaker 1 (18:34):
Fortunately she hasn't said the name of this company and
is perhaps giving them a chance to remedy things before
she actually, you know, sticks the landing with this expose
a But that's a dangerous game to play, you know,
especially now, because black people of all people will put
your name in a tweet or on the Instagram post
(18:56):
and have everybody share it and we'll be looking at
you like you look really goofy. So you know, those
are my thoughts.
Speaker 2 (19:03):
But well, and as you mentioned, I mean the aspect
about even if they can skirt around it being a
discrimination case specifically, and I'm not saying it is or isn't,
you know, whatever. You know, a company does have the
right to wind out their policy about who they want
or don't want to serve. But even as you mentioned,
(19:25):
it's like, do you really, at this day and age,
want to fall into the category where it might be
a discrimination of classism even you know, because you're right,
it's like you're you're singling out things that tend to
you know, are worn by certain people but not worn
by others.
Speaker 1 (19:42):
And it's like.
Speaker 2 (19:42):
It's, you know, it's got it could one way or
another leave of sour taste in people's mouth.
Speaker 3 (19:48):
You know, if my voice didn't matter, people wouldn't be
trying so hard to soundnce me. And if my vote
didn't matter, they wouldn't work so hard to take it away. So,
you know, one vote in this November, because I know
they don't want me to.
Speaker 4 (20:02):
Your voice is powerful, your voice matters. Don't let your
voice be silenced. To register, confirm your voting status, or
get information about voting in your area, visit vote dot gov.
That's vote dot goov. A message from the Perception Institute
and the Black Information Network.
Speaker 1 (20:20):
This is your weekend recap with today's guest, Black Information
Network news anchor Katie Gray. All right. Next up from
the Black Information Network, former President Barack Obama delivered a
blunt message to black men who are reluctant to vote
for Vice President Kamala Harris. All right, bear with me,
(20:41):
I'm going to read this whole thing. On Thursday, October tenth,
Obama made a surprise speech during which he addressed blackmail
voter support for Harris at a campaign field office in
Pittsburgh ahead of a rally in the city. Per NPR quote,
My understanding, based on reports I'm getting from campaigns and
communities is that we have I've not yet seen the
same kinds of energy and turnout in all quarters of
(21:04):
our neighborhoods and communities as we saw when I was running, quote,
the former president said. Obama appointedly started. Obama appointedly stated
that the lack of enthusiasm for Harris quote seems to
be more pronounced with the brothers. Goes on to say,
and you're thinking about sitting out. Part of it makes
(21:24):
me think, and I'm speaking to men directly, part of
it makes me think that, well, you just aren't feeling
the idea of having a woman as president, and you're
coming up with other alternatives, other reasons for that. Women
in our lives have been getting our backs this entire time,
Obama continued. When we get in trouble and the system
isn't working for us, they're the ones out there marching
(21:44):
and protesting. Quote, the former president said, the decision between
Harris and Trump should be clear. Quote. On the one hand,
you have somebody who grew up like you, knows you
went to college with you, understands the struggles and pain
and joy that comes from those experiences. On the other side,
you have someone who has consistently shown disregard not just
(22:04):
for the communities, but for you as a person. Quote.
So Obama is saying what he needs to say, be
honest with you, but talk to me a little bit.
Did this bring any sense of well, let me not
put words in your mouth. How did this hit you?
(22:24):
I actually I was.
Speaker 2 (22:26):
Going to give it back to you. I was very
curious when I was reading a story, what you have
to say about it?
Speaker 1 (22:31):
Okay, all right, you asked for it. I am we're
trying to highlight you, but you asked for it. Okay.
So on this show, I've never tried to trick or
deceive our listeners. My background is not in journalism. My
background is you know, as I stated, I'm a personality,
(22:53):
but my background is more an activism. If anything, I
am not one of those people that that has to
give this a second look. Kamala Harris is by far
and away the better choice for this country, even better
(23:16):
than Joe Biden was in my estimation. So for folks
that that that come to this show, because they may
maybe they disagree with me, but they want to know
what a person who comes from this side of the
political aisle thinks. You know, I do my best to
share in a way that feels conversational. And for the
(23:39):
folks who feel the way that I do, I do
my best to provide context for why I feel certain
ways and why I kind of go off into certain tangents.
I think that Obama is absolutely right. Indeed, I am
doing a panel in the coming days called Courageous Conversations
(24:04):
with Black Men that'll be next week, where we're basically
talking to black men myself and keyword. We're going to
be talking to black men who are undecided, as if
there are many of those who are Trump voters or
who have decided to sit out the election entirely, and
(24:28):
we have to have some serious conversations and address the
erosion of support. Originally was Joe Biden, but now there's
erosion from Kama harrisy. She hasn't recovered everyone back, and
there's some people who are just turned off at the
idea of voting entirely, and so we have to have
some meaningful conversations. So from my position, I think that
(24:49):
Obama has done a great service, not just for us,
but for this country. I think that he's done a
great right service by calling out the hypocrisy of some
black men, some black men in church who just they
do not believe in the capacity of a woman to lead.
(25:14):
They're just in that old school way of thinking. Some
men who feel like you know, Kamala Harris is, you know,
the worst thing to happen to black men, as though
Donald Trump is not right next to her on the
debate stage, and we have like well documented instances of
him calling for the death penalty, discriminating against black people,
(25:36):
saying out loud as the president of the United States,
the most viole and racist things that any of us
have ever heard. That he wasn't ranked the worst president
ever of all the presidents. So you know, I think
that I've made it pretty clear how I feel about
(25:57):
Obama's words. Let's shift and focus back to you.
Speaker 2 (26:01):
There's so much misinformation And I even found again something
that I will share with you that even I learned
only because of the space that I get to be in,
that I've worked to be in, is that I didn't
even realize myself. I saw one of the political campaigns,
and we all see them everywhere, right, the ads are
constantly playing, We're getting text messages. They had some pretty
(26:26):
radical things that they had said that, especially as a journalist,
I'm like, how is that not splander? How can you
make that claim?
Speaker 1 (26:35):
On both sides?
Speaker 2 (26:35):
I will even say, like, I'm not saying that ones
that they've funded each other, but political campaigns. And I
was really shocked because I was like, how can you
use that verbiage legally? You know, only to find out
that political campaigns, they can say whatever they want. There's
absolutely no repercussions where can make certain claims and then
(26:56):
you're right, people take it as truth because they don't
know how to to you know, it's easy to hear
something that would be so outrageous and then go, oh, yeah,
you know, because we can look up the fact that
Kamala Harris was a prosecutor, that means that she had
to have believed in blocking up men. When if you
do a little bit more research and actually realize that
she actually kind of did the opposite where being a
(27:18):
part of that you know, piece actually ended up doing
a lot of work on trying to make sure that
there was more reform. And the only way to have this,
that only way to be able to make that conversation,
be a part of those conversations is sometimes you have
to sit at those tables and so you know, and
I'm not saying that to defend her as a candidate,
but it's one of those things where it's hard to
kind of navigate when we hear so much going back
(27:40):
and forth where it comes down to are you going
to work? Are you going to vote for Donald Trump?
Or you know the first you know, black female that
we've ever had running for president before, you know, in
our history. When I really hope that the conversation gets
more seared towards as you mentioned, what is the actual
what are the actual policies on the table one of
(28:01):
these candidates that have done prior to leading.
Speaker 4 (28:04):
Up to this.
Speaker 1 (28:05):
Yeah, well, you know, the truth is that those things
are established. I'd say well established. There are people that
debate the particulars about them, but most people are looking
at the candidates themselves, the human beings themselves. Generally speaking,
(28:30):
if you identify more as a conservative, Donald Trump is
your guy that you either say I'll take it or
it's too much, and Kamala Harris is your woman that
you'll say I'll take it or it's too much. But
in terms of the particulars of their platforms, I would
(28:54):
imagine less people are going to say, well, this one issue.
I mean, there's some people abortion obviously is a bit one.
You know, there there's a few key issues. You know,
obviously the warren Palestine, that's a very divisive issue among Democrats.
But I think that most people either just like Donald Trump,
(29:17):
they like that aggressive bully energy, or they don't like that,
And Kamala Harris feels like a return to dignity and
politics to them. It feels like a return to normalcy
in politics. It feels like a younger, more exuberant, youthful
(29:38):
and yet still you know, what's the word I'm looking for,
maybe demure and elegant, you know, a candidate. You know
(29:59):
that it's it's because you know, we have to contrast
her against Joe Biden and Donald Trump, because those were
the last two presidents, right, and so for a long
time since Obama was in office, you know that when
was the last time a lot of folks had fun,
you know, paying attention to politics. Kamala Harris could in
(30:20):
their minds, represent a return to that, and so it
doesn't matter as much what her policies are to a
lot of folks, I would imagine. So we're going to
just have to wait and see, as you know, and
we're going to leave the rest of this right here.
So you know, this is a it's been a joy.
Speaker 2 (30:39):
Thank you, yeah, thank you so much. I've definitely enjoyed
our conversation and I guess you're right.
Speaker 1 (30:42):
We'll see what happens, all right, Well, thank you very
much once again. Today's guest is Black Information Network news
anchor Katie Gray. This has been a production of the
Black Information Network. Today's show is produced by Chris Thompson.
Have some thoughts you'd like to share, use the red
micro phone talkback feature on the iHeartRadio app. While you're there,
(31:02):
be sure to hit subscribe and download all of our episodes.
I'm your host Ramse's Jaw on all social media, and
join us tomorrow as we share our news with our
voice from our perspective right here on the Black Information
Network Daily Podcast
Here at the Black Information Network, we know how important
it is for you to start your week off energized, engaged,
and enlightened. There are always major stories that break over
the weekend, and we feel you should know about the
ones we are talking about today, So stay tuned for
our weekend recap featuring Black Information Network news anchor Katie Gray.
This is the Black Information Network Daily Podcast, and I'm
(00:21):
your host, Ramsey Jah. All right, Katie Gray, welcome back
to the show. I haven't talked to you in some months.
What have you been up to. What's the latest?
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Yes, it's been way too long. I'm so excited to
actually sit down with you again. Honestly, obviously a whirlwind.
We've had so much news since the last time you
and I chatted. I mean it's a completely different scope,
you know.
Speaker 1 (00:42):
Yeah, absolutely, well, let's get to it. First. Up, this
from NBC retailer Bath and body Works apologize for a
candle promoted on its social media accounts displaying a snowflake
which some said appeared quite similar to a ku Klux
Klan hood. The snowflake in the image on the candle
featured two two holes on either side of its spindles.
Critics said the pattern looks similar to the white hoods
(01:04):
worn by members of the KKK, an American white supremacist
terrorist group that emerged after the Civil War and legal
slavery had ended, freeing millions of black people held in bondage.
The KKK is the oldest hate group in America, according
to the Southern Poverty Law Center, and was created to
enforce violence and terror against newly freed people. The candle
(01:24):
is no longer available for purchase on Bath and Bodyworks's website.
Quote at Bath and body Works, we are committed to
listening to our teams and customers and committed to fixing
any mistakes we make, even those that are unintentional like
this one, unquote, the company said in an emailed statement
to NBC News and other outlets. The statement goes on, quote,
we apologize to anyone we've offended and are swiftly working
(01:47):
to have this item removed and are evaluating our process
going forward. Quote So this one. I saw folks talking
about this on social media. This isn't the first time
I come across this story. What were your thoughts when
you first saw it?
Speaker 2 (02:02):
I had many thoughts. I do want to start out
with like the first, first, and foremost, like the way
that a company responds to criticism when it's brought to
their attention, I think speaks volumes. So I think that
it is worth noting that their first response when people
brought it to their attention was to pull it and
(02:23):
was to apologize, you know, to kind of recognize their
maybe miss overlook over what it could symbolize or what
it could resemble. But I also have some other further
questions too about you know, we've had some cases that
we've talked about before that you know that there has
to be like checks and balances before anything goes out.
(02:44):
You know, you have different committees, you have different board
members are looking at, you know, things you would hope
and it does also make me wonder, you know, how
it kind of got through those safety nets or I
guess in some ways maybe lack thereof makes me wonder
about like the backgrounds of the people that were viewing
it for them not to see something that someone else
(03:05):
or other people would you know, gather around and would
bring up, you know, what are your thoughts on it?
Speaker 1 (03:11):
Yeah, this one was I've actually seen a few examples
of this recently. One comes to mind it was an
Amazon advertisement, and you know the Amazon smile, It's like
kind of a smile with a little arrow on the
end of it. There was a piece of tape, so
(03:36):
if the smile is on a face, there was a
piece of tape like right about where the nose would be,
and the tape had a little jagged edge, so it
looked like a little Hitler mustache with the smile underneath it. Right.
So Amazon puts this image out saying, you know, promoting
like Prime Day or something like that. You know, if
you look up the article, I'm sure you'll find it.
But this just comes to mind as you were talking,
(03:58):
and you know, folks started saying, does not look like
Hitler's mustache. Like there's a smile and the little mustache
thing there because of the tape. And Amazon had to
catch their mistake. Oh my god, you know, this is
not what we intended. And they made you know, they
corrected their error. You know, nothing to see her. We
saw some ads recently from I believe it was Hins
(04:22):
and they were in Great Britain, if I'm not mistaken,
and there was a bride in a groom sitting at
a table in the ad. So there's five people in
the ad. It's centered on the bride, So there's two
people on her left, two people on her right. The
two people on her right are the groom's parents, and
(04:44):
the person to are left, of course, is the groom,
and the person to his left is her mother. Now,
the groom is white, the bride is black. Okay, so
there is no display of the black father in this advertisement.
I suspect because they wanted some symmetry, you know, with
the bride in the middle. But there were folks who
(05:07):
had a different set of sensibilities from the advertisers that
looked at this ad and says, okay, so where is
her father? Are you reinforcing stereotypes that black men are
not present in their roles as fathers, which you know,
folks like you and I know, is a debunked myth,
has been a long standing myth. Black men are no
(05:29):
more or less likely to abandon their families than anyone else,
and indeed, black men are the most engaged fathers of
all racial groups. This according to the CDC report released
in twenty thirteen. If I'm not mistaken, for folks that
want to go and review this data, black fathers are
actually the best of all categories of races. But you know,
(05:55):
the stereotype has been so well entrenched in society that
it has affected all of our sensitivities. Right, And then
of course what we're talking about today with you know,
the clan hood. You know, I'm thinking of another one.
You know, once upon a time H and M put
a little black boy in a shirt and the shirt
(06:16):
read coolest monkey in the Jungle, and people had an
issue with that because of course black people have historically
been referred to as subhuman, less evolved, you know, all
kinds of these these disgusting, insulting narratives that we've had
to endure, and so we are particularly sensitive to things
(06:40):
like this. And what I think that this example, in
these other examples show is how effective having a diverse
group of decision makers can save companies money and can
result in more effective advertising campaigns. So when folks look
(07:07):
at what is the point of d I, When folks
criticize DEI, when folks say that, you know, de I
stands for didn't earn it, and they don't look at
the benefits of how de I could have helped Colgate KFC.
You know, we've mentioned H and m what are we
talking about now, bath and bodyworks? Right? You see these
(07:28):
these mistakes that happen. These are wildly expensive mistakes when
folks roll out these campaigns and they invest millions of
dollars and they print up you know, PaperWorks and they've
you know, done this sort They paid everyone, and then
they have to go back and repay someone to do
a whole new thing because they approved it. Right, you
(07:49):
start to under and then they have to earn back
the trust of the public, which sometimes is more difficult
than just paying you know money. Twice, you start to
see how a diverse work workforce UH is beneficial to companies.
Add to that that, of course, UH, companies with diverse
(08:09):
workforces are overall more successful. And again the data on
that is well documented and well shared for folks that
want to check it out. So those are my early
thoughts on this one. But if I'm being one hundred
percent honest, I don't always catch it myself. So what
you want is someone who is qualified to have a
(08:32):
critical examination of advert ads and can see how they
could be problematic. Because when I first saw the photo,
I know that I wouldn't have even if I did
see clan hoods. I wouldn't have thought, oh, this is
like subtle racism. You know, a lot of the a
lot of the examples that I see, some of them,
I'm like, yo, y'all miss the mark. But when I
(08:54):
saw the bride and the in the ad that I
that I mentioned, I saw the symmetry. I saw it
was a wedding setting and they were trying to I
don't know, sell beans or whatever they were trying to do,
And my brain didn't even go to where's her father?
You know what I mean? So I think that what
this says is that you need the right people with
(09:14):
the right sensibilities and the right training. I often, as
I can cause or ask people to, you know, if
they don't know any better, err on the side of
trusting a black woman and listening to a black woman, because,
in my opinion and in my learned experience as well,
black women often have the sensibilities that around which I
(09:40):
would build my life. You know, I just I haven't
been steered wrong yet. If I want to err on,
like I said, if I want to make a mistake
and air on one side, and I'm painting with broad strokes,
empowering a black woman, trusting a black woman, listening to
a black woman, and following the leadership of a black woman.
I think that a lot of these things can be avoided.
(10:03):
So there's my two stents. I hopefully I put that
as as politically correctly as I possibly can. But that's
my advice.
Speaker 2 (10:13):
I mean, especially because even as you mentioned, I mean,
we're having to have these sparked conversations around when this happens,
because we're recognizing now culturally more than ever, symbols matter,
you know, and even as you mentioned, that's a very
expensive mistake to have to backpedal and have to figure
out how to pull back and then to you know,
(10:35):
go back.
Speaker 1 (10:35):
To the drawing board.
Speaker 2 (10:36):
When it is something that we understand, there are ways
to try to make sure that that's more preventable or
that it doesn't happen as often as you know, exactly.
Speaker 1 (10:49):
If you have one person on salary for ten years
and you avoid even one mistake like this, then that
person is because again if it's if it's dollars to
dollars and you don't end up losing any money because
you have a person in this position, then great. But again,
(11:12):
earning back the trust of the public that's the part
that's problematic. You know, I still have an issue, you
know sometimes when I go to Denny's, because I remember
a story when the Secret Service ended up suing Denny's
for discriminatory practices in their restaurant, and Denny's had to
(11:34):
really fall on that sword and say, yeah, you know,
this is a problem, and it's still with me. That
was probably twenty years ago, you know, but it's still
with me. So again, earning back that trust, Like if
there's an I Hop in a Denny's, go an I
hop because they haven't discriminated in so far as I
can tell against black people, So I don't want people
spending my food. You know, it takes a long time
(11:56):
to earn back that trust. And so you know, again
I say it might be worth it to have some
black voices at the table. And again, if you don't
know better, if you don't know better and you need
to make a decision quick, I would suggest that you
make the decision about a black woman and put her
(12:17):
at the head of the table, and then you can
avoid stuff like this way more often than you're going
to run into it anyway. Moving on, next story comes
from Fox five Atlanta, former Atlanta mayor Keisha Lance Bottoms
is going public after she said another local restaurant told
her she could not be seated due to what she
was wearing. Bottoms took to social media on Wednesday afternoon
(12:40):
to vent her frustrations. According to Bottoms, a hostess refused
her service because she was wearing yoga pants. Bottoms admitted
that the piece of clothing was quote supposedly against their
strictly enforced business casual policy excuse me, but said that
there were other people eating at the restaurant who had
on shorts, baseball caps, and flip flops. Manager offered to
(13:02):
seat the former mayor and her party within an hour,
but they chose to leave. So you know, this is
from what I understand, yoga pants are okay. I didn't
know that they were not okay, not okay? Yeah, yeah, no,
I mean it.
Speaker 2 (13:23):
I mean there was a there's a lot of pieces
to the story that was eye catching because you're right,
like on one level, it's like, I mean, technically, when
we think about businesses or I guess restaurants, I guess
they are allowed to set a dress code. I can
honestly say from personal experience, I don't usually go to
a lot of restaurants that have a strict, you know,
(13:43):
dress code, so I can't really speak to that, you know,
personally as much. But it is interesting, how you know.
I think the other thing that stood out from the
article is that she mentioned that this wasn't the first
time that this was this was another restaurant that she
had this incident at. And then I mean, obviously it
(14:05):
sounds like, you know, the reason why she's bringing it up,
or why she's bringing attention to it is if she
did notice other people and it didn't seem to be
you know, enforced across the board. But just pick and
choose which I think, you know, across the board managers
or people at work there, you do run the risk
(14:26):
of discrimination because if you're not enforcing it across the board,
you can't And you're right, I don't really I guess
I don't know if we have culturally had a conversation
about where leggings like kind of why I thought that
you're right, we have this was the athletic, where is
considered like you.
Speaker 1 (14:43):
Know, casual, where you're probably a much more fashionable individual
than I am. I got, I got a look that
works for me. And I just kind of roll with it.
But I'll take the.
Speaker 2 (14:55):
Same outfit that you wear.
Speaker 1 (14:57):
You just rotate. It's something like that. Yeah, I'm a
simple man, simple enough at least. But you know what
this reminds me of. So, you know, many of our
listeners know that I'm a DJ and a radio personality.
This is kind of my background, and so as a result,
I've DJed nightclubs for years, and as a result, I've
(15:26):
been to nightclubs to visit other DJs or to meet
with managers and owners. Now that I am an owner,
this doesn't happen as often, but you know, for many
years this was my story. And I recall dress code
policy enforcement in Scottsdale, Arizona, and how it was used
(15:52):
sometimes not all the time. It was used for some people,
not all people, and they had very specific things on
their dress code policy that you know, a person that
looked like me would be more likely to be wearing,
you know, no Jordan's. I remember this was back in
the day, no white teas, no visible jewelry, you know,
(16:17):
things like this, and you know, if there was a
white person that was wearing jewelry, they could go right in,
you know, but if I had any jewelry, they would
stop me at the door and say, hey, no, you
can't come in with the jewelry. All right, well I'll
take it off and put it in my pocket. No,
we've already you know, violated you. You can get in
(16:37):
there and put the jewelry on. I'll put it in
the car. No, we won't know if you have it. Okay.
You know they would pick they would they would just
pick something on your outfit. They had enough rules to uh,
basically violate anyone in line and keep anyone from going inside.
But you know a lot of these are open door
(16:58):
concept restaurants, so you can just look inside. You know,
Arizona's very warm, so you know, there's a lot of
ventilation in the buildings out there, so you can just
look inside and see people and flip flops and short
cargo shorts. You know, you're like, what about this guy, Well,
he got here earlier before the dress code policy was enforced.
He's been here the whole time, and they would always
(17:19):
have something for you. But you know, if that happens
to you nineteen times out of twenty, you know, every
time you're calling you know, the GM or the owner
and say Hey, look, I need you to come grab me,
and there come out and they apologize, I'm sorry, you
know how it is, you know that sort of thing,
and you know, you play that game for long enough,
you start to realize that this is the thing. So
when I look at Keisha lance Bottom's story and I
(17:44):
see what she's up against, it does feel like kind
of a similar story. Now I don't know who the
manager is. I don't know if this is a black
or white issue. It could simply just be a matter
of you know, the dress code, you know whatever, but
this story kind of feels like that. And even if
(18:04):
it's not racist, you know, there's some elements of like
classism there, right, And either way, it just it feels wrong.
If I'm here and I have the money to pay,
you know, and I'm not taking the aesthetic, or I
don't have some foul odor to me or something like that,
then it makes more sense to be very mindful how
(18:27):
you deal with people, especially in this age of social media,
because you know, as we're talking, companies' reputations are on
the line.
Speaker 3 (18:34):
Now.
Speaker 1 (18:34):
Fortunately she hasn't said the name of this company and
is perhaps giving them a chance to remedy things before
she actually, you know, sticks the landing with this expose
a But that's a dangerous game to play, you know,
especially now, because black people of all people will put
your name in a tweet or on the Instagram post
(18:56):
and have everybody share it and we'll be looking at
you like you look really goofy. So you know, those
are my thoughts.
Speaker 2 (19:03):
But well, and as you mentioned, I mean the aspect
about even if they can skirt around it being a
discrimination case specifically, and I'm not saying it is or isn't,
you know, whatever. You know, a company does have the
right to wind out their policy about who they want
or don't want to serve. But even as you mentioned,
(19:25):
it's like, do you really, at this day and age,
want to fall into the category where it might be
a discrimination of classism even you know, because you're right,
it's like you're you're singling out things that tend to
you know, are worn by certain people but not worn
by others.
Speaker 1 (19:42):
And it's like.
Speaker 2 (19:42):
It's, you know, it's got it could one way or
another leave of sour taste in people's mouth.
Speaker 3 (19:48):
You know, if my voice didn't matter, people wouldn't be
trying so hard to soundnce me. And if my vote
didn't matter, they wouldn't work so hard to take it away. So,
you know, one vote in this November, because I know
they don't want me to.
Speaker 4 (20:02):
Your voice is powerful, your voice matters. Don't let your
voice be silenced. To register, confirm your voting status, or
get information about voting in your area, visit vote dot gov.
That's vote dot goov. A message from the Perception Institute
and the Black Information Network.
Speaker 1 (20:20):
This is your weekend recap with today's guest, Black Information
Network news anchor Katie Gray. All right. Next up from
the Black Information Network, former President Barack Obama delivered a
blunt message to black men who are reluctant to vote
for Vice President Kamala Harris. All right, bear with me,
(20:41):
I'm going to read this whole thing. On Thursday, October tenth,
Obama made a surprise speech during which he addressed blackmail
voter support for Harris at a campaign field office in
Pittsburgh ahead of a rally in the city. Per NPR quote,
My understanding, based on reports I'm getting from campaigns and
communities is that we have I've not yet seen the
same kinds of energy and turnout in all quarters of
(21:04):
our neighborhoods and communities as we saw when I was running, quote,
the former president said. Obama appointedly started. Obama appointedly stated
that the lack of enthusiasm for Harris quote seems to
be more pronounced with the brothers. Goes on to say,
and you're thinking about sitting out. Part of it makes
(21:24):
me think, and I'm speaking to men directly, part of
it makes me think that, well, you just aren't feeling
the idea of having a woman as president, and you're
coming up with other alternatives, other reasons for that. Women
in our lives have been getting our backs this entire time,
Obama continued. When we get in trouble and the system
isn't working for us, they're the ones out there marching
(21:44):
and protesting. Quote, the former president said, the decision between
Harris and Trump should be clear. Quote. On the one hand,
you have somebody who grew up like you, knows you
went to college with you, understands the struggles and pain
and joy that comes from those experiences. On the other side,
you have someone who has consistently shown disregard not just
(22:04):
for the communities, but for you as a person. Quote.
So Obama is saying what he needs to say, be
honest with you, but talk to me a little bit.
Did this bring any sense of well, let me not
put words in your mouth. How did this hit you?
(22:24):
I actually I was.
Speaker 2 (22:26):
Going to give it back to you. I was very
curious when I was reading a story, what you have
to say about it?
Speaker 1 (22:31):
Okay, all right, you asked for it. I am we're
trying to highlight you, but you asked for it. Okay.
So on this show, I've never tried to trick or
deceive our listeners. My background is not in journalism. My
background is you know, as I stated, I'm a personality,
(22:53):
but my background is more an activism. If anything, I
am not one of those people that that has to
give this a second look. Kamala Harris is by far
and away the better choice for this country, even better
(23:16):
than Joe Biden was in my estimation. So for folks
that that that come to this show, because they may
maybe they disagree with me, but they want to know
what a person who comes from this side of the
political aisle thinks. You know, I do my best to
share in a way that feels conversational. And for the
(23:39):
folks who feel the way that I do, I do
my best to provide context for why I feel certain
ways and why I kind of go off into certain tangents.
I think that Obama is absolutely right. Indeed, I am
doing a panel in the coming days called Courageous Conversations
(24:04):
with Black Men that'll be next week, where we're basically
talking to black men myself and keyword. We're going to
be talking to black men who are undecided, as if
there are many of those who are Trump voters or
who have decided to sit out the election entirely, and
(24:28):
we have to have some serious conversations and address the
erosion of support. Originally was Joe Biden, but now there's
erosion from Kama harrisy. She hasn't recovered everyone back, and
there's some people who are just turned off at the
idea of voting entirely, and so we have to have
some meaningful conversations. So from my position, I think that
(24:49):
Obama has done a great service, not just for us,
but for this country. I think that he's done a
great right service by calling out the hypocrisy of some
black men, some black men in church who just they
do not believe in the capacity of a woman to lead.
(25:14):
They're just in that old school way of thinking. Some
men who feel like you know, Kamala Harris is, you know,
the worst thing to happen to black men, as though
Donald Trump is not right next to her on the
debate stage, and we have like well documented instances of
him calling for the death penalty, discriminating against black people,
(25:36):
saying out loud as the president of the United States,
the most viole and racist things that any of us
have ever heard. That he wasn't ranked the worst president
ever of all the presidents. So you know, I think
that I've made it pretty clear how I feel about
(25:57):
Obama's words. Let's shift and focus back to you.
Speaker 2 (26:01):
There's so much misinformation And I even found again something
that I will share with you that even I learned
only because of the space that I get to be in,
that I've worked to be in, is that I didn't
even realize myself. I saw one of the political campaigns,
and we all see them everywhere, right, the ads are
constantly playing, We're getting text messages. They had some pretty
(26:26):
radical things that they had said that, especially as a journalist,
I'm like, how is that not splander? How can you
make that claim?
Speaker 1 (26:35):
On both sides?
Speaker 2 (26:35):
I will even say, like, I'm not saying that ones
that they've funded each other, but political campaigns. And I
was really shocked because I was like, how can you
use that verbiage legally? You know, only to find out
that political campaigns, they can say whatever they want. There's
absolutely no repercussions where can make certain claims and then
(26:56):
you're right, people take it as truth because they don't
know how to to you know, it's easy to hear
something that would be so outrageous and then go, oh, yeah,
you know, because we can look up the fact that
Kamala Harris was a prosecutor, that means that she had
to have believed in blocking up men. When if you
do a little bit more research and actually realize that
she actually kind of did the opposite where being a
(27:18):
part of that you know, piece actually ended up doing
a lot of work on trying to make sure that
there was more reform. And the only way to have this,
that only way to be able to make that conversation,
be a part of those conversations is sometimes you have
to sit at those tables and so you know, and
I'm not saying that to defend her as a candidate,
but it's one of those things where it's hard to
kind of navigate when we hear so much going back
(27:40):
and forth where it comes down to are you going
to work? Are you going to vote for Donald Trump?
Or you know the first you know, black female that
we've ever had running for president before, you know, in
our history. When I really hope that the conversation gets
more seared towards as you mentioned, what is the actual
what are the actual policies on the table one of
(28:01):
these candidates that have done prior to leading.
Speaker 4 (28:04):
Up to this.
Speaker 1 (28:05):
Yeah, well, you know, the truth is that those things
are established. I'd say well established. There are people that
debate the particulars about them, but most people are looking
at the candidates themselves, the human beings themselves. Generally speaking,
(28:30):
if you identify more as a conservative, Donald Trump is
your guy that you either say I'll take it or
it's too much, and Kamala Harris is your woman that
you'll say I'll take it or it's too much. But
in terms of the particulars of their platforms, I would
(28:54):
imagine less people are going to say, well, this one issue.
I mean, there's some people abortion obviously is a bit one.
You know, there there's a few key issues. You know,
obviously the warren Palestine, that's a very divisive issue among Democrats.
But I think that most people either just like Donald Trump,
(29:17):
they like that aggressive bully energy, or they don't like that,
And Kamala Harris feels like a return to dignity and
politics to them. It feels like a return to normalcy
in politics. It feels like a younger, more exuberant, youthful
(29:38):
and yet still you know, what's the word I'm looking for,
maybe demure and elegant, you know, a candidate. You know
(29:59):
that it's it's because you know, we have to contrast
her against Joe Biden and Donald Trump, because those were
the last two presidents, right, and so for a long
time since Obama was in office, you know that when
was the last time a lot of folks had fun,
you know, paying attention to politics. Kamala Harris could in
(30:20):
their minds, represent a return to that, and so it
doesn't matter as much what her policies are to a
lot of folks, I would imagine. So we're going to
just have to wait and see, as you know, and
we're going to leave the rest of this right here.
So you know, this is a it's been a joy.
Speaker 2 (30:39):
Thank you, yeah, thank you so much. I've definitely enjoyed
our conversation and I guess you're right.
Speaker 1 (30:42):
We'll see what happens, all right, Well, thank you very
much once again. Today's guest is Black Information Network news
anchor Katie Gray. This has been a production of the
Black Information Network. Today's show is produced by Chris Thompson.
Have some thoughts you'd like to share, use the red
micro phone talkback feature on the iHeartRadio app. While you're there,
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