June 26, 2025 • 30 mins
On today's podcast, Hosts Ramses Ja and Q Ward discuss the idea of Black people being White Supremacist .
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Broadcasting from the Civic Cipher Studios. Welcome to the QR Code,
where we share perspective, seek understanding, and shape outcomes. I'm
your host, Rams's Jah.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
He is your host. I just work here, but you
can call me Quor.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
He was also your host, and he does more than
work here. He makes the hope should go. But you
are who we're focused on at the moment. We appreciate
you tuning in. We have a great show in store
for you today. We want you to stick around because
we are going to be talking about quite a few
things we think will be helpful. We're going to learn
some things along with you and hopefully share some things
(00:36):
that we've learned, and you know, we always open the
floor for you to share things that you have learned
with us. But in this episode, we're going to be
talking about whether or not it is possible to be
a black white supremacist. This is a conversation that you
and I we're having recently, and we have a few
names to bring up in a few positions to flesh out,
(00:59):
so stick them for that. We're also gonna talk about
the IQ scores of black people relative to white people,
because this is something that the far right people like
to bring up it's baseless. Of course, I'll spoil it
for you. It's baseless. But we're gonna dig into what
IQ scores mean and what affects them and so forth.
(01:20):
We're also going to be talking about how we have
found ways to engage with people with different political opinions.
That's coming up for our dialogue segment. And then an
important question that came up recently that really is worth
us digging into. Was Jackie Robinson a DEI hire? Jackie
(01:46):
Robinson is the baseball player that integrated the MLB. Was
he a DEI hired? Does he qualify as a DEI hier?
And I think that's something that will certainly help provide
a framework to how we view the world today. All
that and so much more. But before we move on,
we like to start off with a feel good feature,
and today's feel good feature, we're shouting out Kendrick Lamar.
(02:09):
Kendrick Lamar for those who don't know, it's quietly funding
college tuition or twenty five black students from Compton. Some
of their identities have been revealed after years. During a
recent UCLA ceremony, a student emotionally shared that he wouldn't
be here without a scholarship from an anonymous donor, and
now he knows that it was Kendrick Lamar. Media later
(02:29):
uncovered that Kendrick secretly funded full tuition for twenty five
students from Compton, where he grew up. This story is
credited to Vintage Art Times, and I believe I think
that the reason that it's not covered by bigger media
outlets is because, again, Kendrick was trying to be anonymous, which,
(02:52):
based on what I know, a person who's been able
to sit and have a couple of conversations with Kendrick's
consistent with his character, doesn't really seemed like he'd won
a lot of shine from that. I haven't run this
one by a YEQ, but you know, doesn't this feel
sort of on brand for Kendrick.
Speaker 2 (03:08):
Well, the thing is, you know, we can easily get
bogged down with semantics and specifics when it comes to
the stories. Even if this story was completely debunked, you know,
Kendrick Lamar has been credited with donating a lot of stuff. Yeah,
tens of thousands, maybe hundreds of thousands of dollars to
high school music departments, you know, getting wheelchair accessible vans
(03:34):
for schools, contributed to habitat humanity, hurricane relief, you know,
Black lives matter, you know, all right, inspired a nation
and really a lot of the world. So this has
not been proven true or false beyond probably that source
because I haven't read it anywhere, but it's not hard
(03:55):
to believe at all. So I'm understand how he moves. Yeah, yeah,
I'll go with that. But shout out to Kendrick for that.
Speaker 1 (04:03):
All right.
Speaker 2 (04:05):
You know what.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
Us asking ourselves whether or not it's possible to be
a black white supremacist. You and I know the answer
to that. White supremacy doesn't mean necessarily a white person
has to be in the driver's seat. White supremacy can
benefit non white people. There were black slave owners, and
(04:35):
it said that some of those folks were the cruelest
slave owners in the country. The economic system at the
time and place at the time was based around slave ownership,
and so there are many people that would say that
(04:58):
during slavery, you know, that's kind of peak white supremacy.
And you know, again, the idea that there were black
slave owners flies in the face of the fact that
black people can't be white supremacists. But there are some
names that come up, certainly, you know, in our travels,
(05:18):
accusing myself, especially when we're talking with folks who are
more conservative thinking than we are. And a lot of
times they use the race of certain political pundits to
hide behind and say, well, you know, Candice Owens feels
(05:40):
the same way that I feel, and she's black, So
this idea cannot be in and of itself racist because
this is a black woman who feels the way that
I feel. Right, And that's a very common excuse. It's
a very thin excuse, but a very common excuse. And
you know, I'll let you share a bit here, you
before we get into some of the other names here.
(06:02):
But I know that this has been something that has happened,
you know, for you as well.
Speaker 2 (06:09):
I wish this question was either harder to answer or
that the answer was flatly no, Like that'd be an
easier conversation to have, Like could there be black white supremacists?
Absolutely not, And like we'd have to get ordered in
the court because everybody in the court room lost their
(06:31):
mind and just got out of control and slamming the
gabble ordering. You just have to calm everybody down, because
it's a ridiculous question. Everybody is upset and flipping over
tables and throwing stuff and pushing babies down and just pandemonium,
just chaos. Everybody's like people would lose it if you
asked such a question.
Speaker 1 (06:52):
I hate.
Speaker 2 (06:55):
That the answer is absolutely yeah, and that it doesn't
take us in seconds to think about it before we answer.
There are, for the entirety of the system of white
supremacy examples of black people that helped hold it up.
We recently had a conversation about the Willie Lynch Letter,
(07:18):
and there's logic and sinister like thought and planning in
that letter that led to not only there being you know,
black white supremacists, but for parts of history, black people
playing a pivotal role and making sure that system endured
(07:41):
and making sure that we obeyed, and making sure that
we were subservent, making sure that we stayed in bondage.
So yeah, the answer has always been yes. I just
wish we would have evolved out of a position where
it could even still be true. But unfortunately, there will
always be room for and money for an opportunity for
(08:03):
black faces that are willing to parrot the beliefs and
the ideals of white supremacy.
Speaker 1 (08:08):
Yeah, And I think I think that's that's key because
when you have one group at the top and another
group at the bottom in a society, recruiting a couple
of folks from the bottom to the middle is that's
(08:31):
a very powerful position to have a human being because
in their minds, well, I live in a society where
there is very much a binary I mean either the
haves aro on the have nots. But I, the individual,
occupy a very unique space in this binary society where
(08:51):
I'm not the zero. I'm not the one, but I'm
not the zero. I'm somewhere in between. And as long
as I help maintain this binary, then I will occupy
a place of a privilege of prestige. In the past,
we would refer to this as like, you know, those
of us that come from black culture we refer to
(09:12):
this as Uncle Tom. You know. Maybe there's you know,
and depending on the context, you could refer to this
as like the house Negro or the head house Negro,
which is again someone who occupies that that little gap
in between the binary. So let me let me uh
make this live a little bit more so. I mentioned
uncle Tom, another person who kind of feels like a
(09:36):
black white supremacist that is from popular culture is Clayton Bigsby.
Dave Chappelle famously played a character named Clayton Bigsby, a
black white supremacist who was blind, and so he didn't
know that he was black, right, He just thought he
was white and hated black folks. But you know, the
comedy of courses that he himself was black. There's a
(09:58):
guy named Uncle Ruck because for those who've seen the
anime cartoon The Boondocks, shout out to Yamara Taylor, my
big sister, who is the staff writer for that show
and that was being produced. And you know, Steven is
another person. Steven for those who've seen Jangle Unchanged. Stephen
really is the the the character that best embodies the
(10:21):
idea of, you know, the the head House Negro right.
And so all of these these names will come up
from time to time, But there are people in modern
times that very much function in the same way that
(10:42):
these other characters have functioned.
Speaker 2 (10:44):
Right.
Speaker 1 (10:46):
These characters are dangerous and and they give a black
shield to white supremacy, and don't be full. They're often
very intelligent, very charismatic. They are propped up, exalted, and
they error. It's often suggested that these folks should be
the model for all black people. And you know, when
(11:06):
you do the math and you think all black people
should behave like this person, the reason that all black
people don't is because are all black people just you know, stupid,
you know, misinformed, uneducated? Or is this example not true
to their nature, to their predicament, to their circumstances, to
(11:29):
their plight, you know what I mean? And I think
that conundrum is rarely faced by people that try to
hide behind that black shield of the white supremacy, but
it's certainly a question worth asking. Now, I'm gonna share
a couple of names here that we know about. Candice Owens,
As I mentioned, she's a person that is on record
saying that police brutality is a myth. Once upon a time,
she praised Hitler for his nationalism weird. She made a
(11:53):
George Floyd documentary released on his birthday, like it's just
an extra cruel thing to do. And the documentary about
George Floydes was to suggest it somehow he was the
reason that he died, that he had a knee on
his like it was his own fault or otherwise that
he did not deserve to live because of other things
(12:16):
in his life as he was getting himself together or whatever.
This story is. A black woman made that documentary, right,
Don't forget. She's also the person that wore the white
Lives Matter shirt, which is deeply insulting to the majority
of black people. Next to Kanye West in Paris for
fashion Week, another person, Justice Clarence Thomas. He's a black
(12:36):
conservative that wants black people to pull themselves up by
their bootstraps. Let's forget for a second that that's impossible
to do, but you know, it's a common saying. He's
one of those folks, right, Nothing wrong him so far,
but he's closest to the character Stephen from Django. He
is the embodiment of skin folk and kinfolks, so we
don't count on him to support a black agenda, indeed,
the opposite. And his wife, who is white by the way,
(12:58):
not that that matters, but she is. She participated in
and protected those involved with January sixth Right, Okay, let's
go to Herschel Walker he was a name that was
in the headlines a few years ago and of course
back when he played in the NFL. He is the
embodiment of everything the right supposedly despises about black men
(13:19):
in America. But celebrity culture gave him a head start
because of his name, and as a result he got
to at least try to play the political game. And
then a big name that we know around here, Kanye
West or Yay. Remember he's the one that said George
Bush doesn't care about black people. So once upon a
time he was that Kanye West. But lately, you know,
(13:39):
since then, he's worn a Confederate flag. He said slavery
was a choice, said Harriet Tubman, never freed the slaves. Obviously,
the MAGA hat, the White Lives Matter shirt forratonizing with
known white supremacists, then became a full blown Nazi, praising Hitler,
making music about hitter So the answer is, yes, it
is possible for black people to be white supremacists. Now
(14:01):
IQ scores This one came up because you know, we
don't really dig into the corners of the internet. We
just don't really need to do that. But every so
often something pops up because we have to pay attention
to conversations on the far right. And I'll be transparent,
I do it probably more than I should and Q
(14:25):
has a pretty pretty healthy relationship with far right propaganda
because he protects his peace a lot better than I do.
And I'm still learning from you. But either way, we
do have to look into this stuff. We have to
know kind of what these people are thinking, talking about
saying right in order to have conversations that we feel
(14:46):
will be fruitful and that might penetrate maybe. So I'm
gonna share a bit. This comes from quorra Right, the
online forum where people post questions and the other people
answer them. So this is not you know, well so,
but it does present an interesting question and an interesting
thought provoking response, which Q and I are prepared to discuss.
So the question posted says, don't most blacks have a
(15:10):
lower IQ than whites? Do you believe in evolutions? Blacks
look different as do Asians and Caucasians. Evolution doesn't stop
with skin pigment. Okay, that's the question. The answer. The
irony here is extremely painful, suppressing the urge to engage
in ad hominem. Thomas Soul discovered old military mental test results.
(15:34):
Quote differences in mental test scores among different racial and
ethnic groups were taken as proof of genetic differences in
innate mental ability during the progressive era in the early
twentieth century, progressives regarded the fact that the average IQ
test score among whites was higher than the average among
blacks as conclusive proof of genetic determinism. Okay, we talk
(15:54):
a lot about data and misinterpreting data and cognitive bias
and so forth on this show. To continue the answer continues.
A closer look at mental health data, however, shows that
there were not only individual blacks with higher IQs than
most whites, but also whole categories of whites who scored
at or below the mental test scores of blacks. Among
(16:16):
American soldiers given mental tests during the First World War,
for example, white soldiers from Georgia, Arkansas, Kentucky, and Mississippi
scored lower on mental tests than black soldiers from Ohio, Illinois,
New York, and Pennsylvania. Among other groups of whites, those
with average mental test scores no higher than the average
mental test score among blacks included those in various isolated
(16:37):
mountain communities in the United States, those living in the
Hebrides Islands off Scotland, and those in isolated Canalbo communities
in Britain. Looking at achievements. In general, people living in
geographically isolated environments around the world have long lagged behind
the progress of people with a wider cultural universe, regardless
(16:57):
of the race of the people in these isolated places.
When the Spaniards discovered the Canary Islands in the fifteenth century,
they found people of a Caucasian race living at stone
age level. That's all about I'm sorry, that's about all
I'm willing to give on this question. Using common sense.
You'll only be able to determine this properly if everyone
is equally given a good education that is consistent across
(17:19):
the board and over a substantial period of time. And
I don't think we have ever seen that. There are
definitely many, many, many black people with higher IQs than you. Okay,
I'm going to just read one more thing you and
then I want you to jump in. But to provide
context for folks who might have heard this, might believe this,
(17:40):
or are susceptible to this type of rhetoric black people,
or less intell it whatever, I'm going to share this.
This is from the BBC. Being poor can sap a
person's mental resources. Research published in the Journal of Science
suggests the work external by an international team demonstrates how
poverty takes its toll on cognitive function and leaving less
(18:01):
mental capacity for other tasks. The evidence comes from two
studies carried out in India and the US. Previous data
had shown a link between poverty and bad decision making,
but the root causes of this correlation were unclear. The US,
British and Canadian team tried to shed light on this
chicken and egg puzzle by isolating the financial factor from
(18:21):
others that might interfere with the results. One part of
the study used the natural financial cycle tied to the
crop cycle of sugarcane farmers in India. The farmers go
through three crucial stages in the cycle. Before the harvest,
when they have taken out loans to grow the crops
and thus are extremely poor. And then after the harvest
but before being paid, when farmers are at the greatest
(18:44):
extent of their poverty, and after being paid. Okay, so
you can read the rest of the article if you want,
but suffice it to say that there's a cycle embedded
in the farmer's fiscal year that affects their cognitive abilities
capacity to score higher on IQ tests. Right now, I
(19:05):
did some additional research.
Speaker 2 (19:06):
Here.
Speaker 1 (19:07):
Last thing I'll share and I have it written down,
so I'll just read it. Besides genetics, because this is
the argument for you know, white supremacists, people that are
racist so forth is to suggest somehow that white people
are genetically superior and intellectually superior based on their whiteness
or their genetics. Right, So besides genetics, environmental factors such
(19:31):
as socioeconomic status, education, nutrition, Nutrition is a big one, okay,
Early childhood experiences, traumas, et cetera, prenatal factors, physical exercise, age, health, stress, sleep, deprivation,
and exposure to toxins. Read about environmental racism all have
(19:53):
been known to affect IQ. Okay, So I wanted to
share this. This is how you get people from like Appalachia,
you know, largely white communities score lower tests IQ tests,
or people who are living food deserts, you know, black
communities around the country, you know, or whatever. And so
there are factors beyond your genetics that affect your capacity
(20:18):
to learn and to grow. I know you know all
this stuff, Q, but I just want to get your
your thoughts here.
Speaker 2 (20:26):
You know, we we we brought up this topic before
a while ago. Yeah, and I remember not wanting to
talk about it because I just thought the question was ridiculous. Yeah, like,
you know, begging the question of seriously considering a genetic
(20:52):
genome based lack of intellect because of the melon in
your skin today should be a ridiculous thing to ask
out loud. Yeah, you know, even back when this question
was being begged, it was with intent. And we've used
(21:15):
the words pseudoscience, which I hate because it makes it
sound like a science. It makes it sound bolder science,
some legitimacy. It was just insanity. It wasn't science at all.
We're going to prove a conclusion that we've already reached
by creating our own data and our own subsets and
peer review, and if it is peer review, is somebody
who already agrees with me before we even started.
Speaker 1 (21:37):
Like it's just like there's nothing scientific about the process,
and yeah, there's no scientific method or process and you know,
tied to it.
Speaker 2 (21:47):
And again, I think everyone when everyone knows the answer
to the question before we ask it, and asking it
is a waste of time. And both sides of the
argument knew the answer before we asked it, so it
it's a frustrating thing to ever have been pondered. But
the same people that used God and Jesus to justify
slavery and kidnapping and human trafficking pose these kind of
(22:15):
questions all to justify the same things. Right, we can
prove that they're less than human, that they're less than us,
that they deserve this awful treatment, and or that we
tamed and trained the savages so they benefited from the
way that we treated them. We could feel better about
ourselves and our children can smile in the pictures as
(22:36):
we pose next to the most heinous things that we've
ever done to other human beings at picnics of all places.
So entertaining this with even the moticum of actual question mark,
like we don't already know was kind of an annoying
idea to me. But I think you know, as as
(23:00):
my brother would typically say, sometimes you have to say
the ridiculous things out loud, reframe them as ridiculous so
that people don't get caught up in pondering whether or
not this is something they should ever consider. So so
no one else has to ponder this, we did it
for you. You're welcome.
Speaker 1 (23:21):
Yeah, And I'll give a little bit of a peek
behind the curtain. I wouldn't say kicking and screaming, but
you know, when this came up for us to discuss Cuba,
was very much like, do we need to do that again?
Because and I understand it, because it's like, by taking
it seriously and talking about it, it's almost like we
were dignifying it, or we're giving it a modicum of credibility,
(23:46):
which it doesn't deserve. You know, But the fact is
there are some people who might feel that way, and
they might end up in your life, and hopefully now
you know how to engage with them moving on. You know,
something I've noticed lately, Q is that you know, when
(24:06):
we see police at events that we go to because
we have to move around the country quite a bit,
and a lot of times we're around you know, important folks,
elected officials, dignitaries, that sort of stuff, and you know,
we're at the other end of the spectrum too, we're
at protest where you know whatever, but we're you know,
(24:27):
police are part of how we move around. You know,
they're they're there constantly. In recent years, I've noticed that
the police are kind of keeping their faces covered and
that feels super weird.
Speaker 2 (24:42):
Right.
Speaker 1 (24:44):
So, well, first off, you've noticed this too, right.
Speaker 2 (24:48):
It's impossible not to notice. And it's interesting because I
saw something online earlier today where someone was calling something
like this weird, and I thought weird was a weird choice.
This is terrifying. Yeah, there, you like weird makes it
seem like not all that bad, just kind of nuanced, annoying. No,
(25:09):
this is the scariest thing I've ever seen. Yeah, I
have to drive down the street. You know, the law
enforcement vehicles have always made me uncomfortable. Imagine how that
feels now when you don't know who the person is
and you can't recognize them. Again, if you it feels
like there's no way to protect yourself or get some
(25:29):
sort of recompense if this doesn't go your way. Well,
there's an article that came out from the Guardian, and
I think that it kind of speaks to this phenomenon.
So all share Some were baclavas somewhere, neck gators, sunglasses
and hats. Some wear masks and casual clothes. It's a
trend that has sparked alarm among civil rights and law
(25:50):
enforcement experts alike. My German, a former FBI agent, said officers'
widespread use of masks was unprecedented in US law enforcem
and a sign of a rapidly eroding democracy. Quote masking
excuse me symbolizes the drift of law enforcement away from
democratic controls.
Speaker 1 (26:08):
He says, I remember this is a former FBI agent.
All right. The Department of Homeland Security has insisted masks
are necessary to protect officers as privacy, arguing without providing
evidence that there has been an uptick in violence against agents. Okay,
So officers and privacy feels a little weird because I
(26:29):
know that when you ask an officer for their name
and their badge umber, they're supposed to give it to you,
like that's like a law. And the officers work for
the public. So if you're a public servant, you know,
privacy is kind of that. That's that's in you're working
for the public. So the privacy part is not compatible
with the public part. You don't what I'm saying anyway,
I'll finish. But German argued the long term consequences could
(26:54):
be severe. The practice could erode trust in the US
law enforcement agencies. Quote. When it's hard to tell who
a man asked individual is working for, it's hard to
accept that it is a legitimate use of authority. Unquote.
He noted. Andy said when real agents use mask more frequently,
it becomes easier for impostors to operate. This is something
(27:14):
that we know because you know the no knock warrants.
We had a whole deal about that. We've probably spent
a month on that no knock warrants. People can just
kick in the door and say they're the police, get
on the ground, and you don't know if they are
the police or not, right so, and that's very scary.
And if you're a black person and you're exercising your
(27:34):
second memor, right, that could be the end of your life.
Somebody just kicked in the door said they were the police.
You were trying to protect yourself, and then you die.
And we have stories about that, of course, all right,
I'll finish. German, who previously worked under cover in white
supremacists and militia groups and is now a fellow at
the Brennan Center for Justice and Nonprofit, spoke to the
Guardian about the dangers of officer masking, why he thinks
(27:54):
officers are concealing themselves, and how far the US has
deviated from democratic norms of course you can check out
the rest of the article again, that's on the Guardian.
But you know, any thoughts to add here, Q, if
not all jumping out, I mean you said it all man.
Speaker 2 (28:07):
When they're wearing clothes and presenting themselves in a way
that literally anyone can and in this current climate where
immigrants are being targeted, say I was a white racist,
white supremacist who wanted to abduct, kidnapped, beat up, harm
(28:28):
on alive, torture immigrants. I could pull up to any
part of town in any city where I know there's
a concentration of immigrants, present myself with a gator on
and a hat and sunglasses and in a flannel shirt,
have a weapon, and you know, do whatever I want
(28:49):
to them, and the public people watching wouldn't know whether
to intervene or run away, or you know, nobody would
know how or where to look for them, because this
is exactly the same way that actual law enforcement enforcement
is doing it. There's no due process, no actual procedures,
no identification, no uniforms, and your face is covered. It
could be literally anybody, and we've seen cases where it
(29:11):
is anyone. So this is terrifying. Like I said, it's
not weird. It's scary. It can't sleep at night uncomfortable
because all of us know someone who might be a
victim of one of these actual or pretend to tax
(29:32):
And notice that the actual one is just as terrifying
because it's not like there's proper procedure being followed. They're
not being more kind or following more rules or more laws,
or making sure they don't harm or conveniently lose you
in the system. This is a terrifying thing to be
true right now, and not being talked about enough, I
don't think.
Speaker 1 (29:53):
Well, I'm glad I have you to talk about it
with and we're going to keep talking, so stick around
if you want to check that out.
Broadcasting from the Civic Cipher Studios. Welcome to the QR Code,
where we share perspective, seek understanding, and shape outcomes. I'm
your host, Rams's Jah.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
He is your host. I just work here, but you
can call me Quor.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
He was also your host, and he does more than
work here. He makes the hope should go. But you
are who we're focused on at the moment. We appreciate
you tuning in. We have a great show in store
for you today. We want you to stick around because
we are going to be talking about quite a few
things we think will be helpful. We're going to learn
some things along with you and hopefully share some things
(00:36):
that we've learned, and you know, we always open the
floor for you to share things that you have learned
with us. But in this episode, we're going to be
talking about whether or not it is possible to be
a black white supremacist. This is a conversation that you
and I we're having recently, and we have a few
names to bring up in a few positions to flesh out,
(00:59):
so stick them for that. We're also gonna talk about
the IQ scores of black people relative to white people,
because this is something that the far right people like
to bring up it's baseless. Of course, I'll spoil it
for you. It's baseless. But we're gonna dig into what
IQ scores mean and what affects them and so forth.
(01:20):
We're also going to be talking about how we have
found ways to engage with people with different political opinions.
That's coming up for our dialogue segment. And then an
important question that came up recently that really is worth
us digging into. Was Jackie Robinson a DEI hire? Jackie
(01:46):
Robinson is the baseball player that integrated the MLB. Was
he a DEI hired? Does he qualify as a DEI hier?
And I think that's something that will certainly help provide
a framework to how we view the world today. All
that and so much more. But before we move on,
we like to start off with a feel good feature,
and today's feel good feature, we're shouting out Kendrick Lamar.
(02:09):
Kendrick Lamar for those who don't know, it's quietly funding
college tuition or twenty five black students from Compton. Some
of their identities have been revealed after years. During a
recent UCLA ceremony, a student emotionally shared that he wouldn't
be here without a scholarship from an anonymous donor, and
now he knows that it was Kendrick Lamar. Media later
(02:29):
uncovered that Kendrick secretly funded full tuition for twenty five
students from Compton, where he grew up. This story is
credited to Vintage Art Times, and I believe I think
that the reason that it's not covered by bigger media
outlets is because, again, Kendrick was trying to be anonymous, which,
(02:52):
based on what I know, a person who's been able
to sit and have a couple of conversations with Kendrick's
consistent with his character, doesn't really seemed like he'd won
a lot of shine from that. I haven't run this
one by a YEQ, but you know, doesn't this feel
sort of on brand for Kendrick.
Speaker 2 (03:08):
Well, the thing is, you know, we can easily get
bogged down with semantics and specifics when it comes to
the stories. Even if this story was completely debunked, you know,
Kendrick Lamar has been credited with donating a lot of stuff. Yeah,
tens of thousands, maybe hundreds of thousands of dollars to
high school music departments, you know, getting wheelchair accessible vans
(03:34):
for schools, contributed to habitat humanity, hurricane relief, you know,
Black lives matter, you know, all right, inspired a nation
and really a lot of the world. So this has
not been proven true or false beyond probably that source
because I haven't read it anywhere, but it's not hard
(03:55):
to believe at all. So I'm understand how he moves. Yeah, yeah,
I'll go with that. But shout out to Kendrick for that.
Speaker 1 (04:03):
All right.
Speaker 2 (04:05):
You know what.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
Us asking ourselves whether or not it's possible to be
a black white supremacist. You and I know the answer
to that. White supremacy doesn't mean necessarily a white person
has to be in the driver's seat. White supremacy can
benefit non white people. There were black slave owners, and
(04:35):
it said that some of those folks were the cruelest
slave owners in the country. The economic system at the
time and place at the time was based around slave ownership,
and so there are many people that would say that
(04:58):
during slavery, you know, that's kind of peak white supremacy.
And you know, again, the idea that there were black
slave owners flies in the face of the fact that
black people can't be white supremacists. But there are some
names that come up, certainly, you know, in our travels,
(05:18):
accusing myself, especially when we're talking with folks who are
more conservative thinking than we are. And a lot of
times they use the race of certain political pundits to
hide behind and say, well, you know, Candice Owens feels
(05:40):
the same way that I feel, and she's black, So
this idea cannot be in and of itself racist because
this is a black woman who feels the way that
I feel. Right, And that's a very common excuse. It's
a very thin excuse, but a very common excuse. And
you know, I'll let you share a bit here, you
before we get into some of the other names here.
(06:02):
But I know that this has been something that has happened,
you know, for you as well.
Speaker 2 (06:09):
I wish this question was either harder to answer or
that the answer was flatly no, Like that'd be an
easier conversation to have, Like could there be black white supremacists?
Absolutely not, And like we'd have to get ordered in
the court because everybody in the court room lost their
(06:31):
mind and just got out of control and slamming the
gabble ordering. You just have to calm everybody down, because
it's a ridiculous question. Everybody is upset and flipping over
tables and throwing stuff and pushing babies down and just pandemonium,
just chaos. Everybody's like people would lose it if you
asked such a question.
Speaker 1 (06:52):
I hate.
Speaker 2 (06:55):
That the answer is absolutely yeah, and that it doesn't
take us in seconds to think about it before we answer.
There are, for the entirety of the system of white
supremacy examples of black people that helped hold it up.
We recently had a conversation about the Willie Lynch Letter,
(07:18):
and there's logic and sinister like thought and planning in
that letter that led to not only there being you know,
black white supremacists, but for parts of history, black people
playing a pivotal role and making sure that system endured
(07:41):
and making sure that we obeyed, and making sure that
we were subservent, making sure that we stayed in bondage.
So yeah, the answer has always been yes. I just
wish we would have evolved out of a position where
it could even still be true. But unfortunately, there will
always be room for and money for an opportunity for
(08:03):
black faces that are willing to parrot the beliefs and
the ideals of white supremacy.
Speaker 1 (08:08):
Yeah, And I think I think that's that's key because
when you have one group at the top and another
group at the bottom in a society, recruiting a couple
of folks from the bottom to the middle is that's
(08:31):
a very powerful position to have a human being because
in their minds, well, I live in a society where
there is very much a binary I mean either the
haves aro on the have nots. But I, the individual,
occupy a very unique space in this binary society where
(08:51):
I'm not the zero. I'm not the one, but I'm
not the zero. I'm somewhere in between. And as long
as I help maintain this binary, then I will occupy
a place of a privilege of prestige. In the past,
we would refer to this as like, you know, those
of us that come from black culture we refer to
(09:12):
this as Uncle Tom. You know. Maybe there's you know,
and depending on the context, you could refer to this
as like the house Negro or the head house Negro,
which is again someone who occupies that that little gap
in between the binary. So let me let me uh
make this live a little bit more so. I mentioned
uncle Tom, another person who kind of feels like a
(09:36):
black white supremacist that is from popular culture is Clayton Bigsby.
Dave Chappelle famously played a character named Clayton Bigsby, a
black white supremacist who was blind, and so he didn't
know that he was black, right, He just thought he
was white and hated black folks. But you know, the
comedy of courses that he himself was black. There's a
(09:58):
guy named Uncle Ruck because for those who've seen the
anime cartoon The Boondocks, shout out to Yamara Taylor, my
big sister, who is the staff writer for that show
and that was being produced. And you know, Steven is
another person. Steven for those who've seen Jangle Unchanged. Stephen
really is the the the character that best embodies the
(10:21):
idea of, you know, the the head House Negro right.
And so all of these these names will come up
from time to time, But there are people in modern
times that very much function in the same way that
(10:42):
these other characters have functioned.
Speaker 2 (10:44):
Right.
Speaker 1 (10:46):
These characters are dangerous and and they give a black
shield to white supremacy, and don't be full. They're often
very intelligent, very charismatic. They are propped up, exalted, and
they error. It's often suggested that these folks should be
the model for all black people. And you know, when
(11:06):
you do the math and you think all black people
should behave like this person, the reason that all black
people don't is because are all black people just you know, stupid,
you know, misinformed, uneducated? Or is this example not true
to their nature, to their predicament, to their circumstances, to
(11:29):
their plight, you know what I mean? And I think
that conundrum is rarely faced by people that try to
hide behind that black shield of the white supremacy, but
it's certainly a question worth asking. Now, I'm gonna share
a couple of names here that we know about. Candice Owens,
As I mentioned, she's a person that is on record
saying that police brutality is a myth. Once upon a time,
she praised Hitler for his nationalism weird. She made a
(11:53):
George Floyd documentary released on his birthday, like it's just
an extra cruel thing to do. And the documentary about
George Floydes was to suggest it somehow he was the
reason that he died, that he had a knee on
his like it was his own fault or otherwise that
he did not deserve to live because of other things
(12:16):
in his life as he was getting himself together or whatever.
This story is. A black woman made that documentary, right,
Don't forget. She's also the person that wore the white
Lives Matter shirt, which is deeply insulting to the majority
of black people. Next to Kanye West in Paris for
fashion Week, another person, Justice Clarence Thomas. He's a black
(12:36):
conservative that wants black people to pull themselves up by
their bootstraps. Let's forget for a second that that's impossible
to do, but you know, it's a common saying. He's
one of those folks, right, Nothing wrong him so far,
but he's closest to the character Stephen from Django. He
is the embodiment of skin folk and kinfolks, so we
don't count on him to support a black agenda, indeed,
the opposite. And his wife, who is white by the way,
(12:58):
not that that matters, but she is. She participated in
and protected those involved with January sixth Right, Okay, let's
go to Herschel Walker he was a name that was
in the headlines a few years ago and of course
back when he played in the NFL. He is the
embodiment of everything the right supposedly despises about black men
(13:19):
in America. But celebrity culture gave him a head start
because of his name, and as a result he got
to at least try to play the political game. And
then a big name that we know around here, Kanye
West or Yay. Remember he's the one that said George
Bush doesn't care about black people. So once upon a
time he was that Kanye West. But lately, you know,
(13:39):
since then, he's worn a Confederate flag. He said slavery
was a choice, said Harriet Tubman, never freed the slaves. Obviously,
the MAGA hat, the White Lives Matter shirt forratonizing with
known white supremacists, then became a full blown Nazi, praising Hitler,
making music about hitter So the answer is, yes, it
is possible for black people to be white supremacists. Now
(14:01):
IQ scores This one came up because you know, we
don't really dig into the corners of the internet. We
just don't really need to do that. But every so
often something pops up because we have to pay attention
to conversations on the far right. And I'll be transparent,
I do it probably more than I should and Q
(14:25):
has a pretty pretty healthy relationship with far right propaganda
because he protects his peace a lot better than I do.
And I'm still learning from you. But either way, we
do have to look into this stuff. We have to
know kind of what these people are thinking, talking about
saying right in order to have conversations that we feel
(14:46):
will be fruitful and that might penetrate maybe. So I'm
gonna share a bit. This comes from quorra Right, the
online forum where people post questions and the other people
answer them. So this is not you know, well so,
but it does present an interesting question and an interesting
thought provoking response, which Q and I are prepared to discuss.
So the question posted says, don't most blacks have a
(15:10):
lower IQ than whites? Do you believe in evolutions? Blacks
look different as do Asians and Caucasians. Evolution doesn't stop
with skin pigment. Okay, that's the question. The answer. The
irony here is extremely painful, suppressing the urge to engage
in ad hominem. Thomas Soul discovered old military mental test results.
(15:34):
Quote differences in mental test scores among different racial and
ethnic groups were taken as proof of genetic differences in
innate mental ability during the progressive era in the early
twentieth century, progressives regarded the fact that the average IQ
test score among whites was higher than the average among
blacks as conclusive proof of genetic determinism. Okay, we talk
(15:54):
a lot about data and misinterpreting data and cognitive bias
and so forth on this show. To continue the answer continues.
A closer look at mental health data, however, shows that
there were not only individual blacks with higher IQs than
most whites, but also whole categories of whites who scored
at or below the mental test scores of blacks. Among
(16:16):
American soldiers given mental tests during the First World War,
for example, white soldiers from Georgia, Arkansas, Kentucky, and Mississippi
scored lower on mental tests than black soldiers from Ohio, Illinois,
New York, and Pennsylvania. Among other groups of whites, those
with average mental test scores no higher than the average
mental test score among blacks included those in various isolated
(16:37):
mountain communities in the United States, those living in the
Hebrides Islands off Scotland, and those in isolated Canalbo communities
in Britain. Looking at achievements. In general, people living in
geographically isolated environments around the world have long lagged behind
the progress of people with a wider cultural universe, regardless
(16:57):
of the race of the people in these isolated places.
When the Spaniards discovered the Canary Islands in the fifteenth century,
they found people of a Caucasian race living at stone
age level. That's all about I'm sorry, that's about all
I'm willing to give on this question. Using common sense.
You'll only be able to determine this properly if everyone
is equally given a good education that is consistent across
(17:19):
the board and over a substantial period of time. And
I don't think we have ever seen that. There are
definitely many, many, many black people with higher IQs than you. Okay,
I'm going to just read one more thing you and
then I want you to jump in. But to provide
context for folks who might have heard this, might believe this,
(17:40):
or are susceptible to this type of rhetoric black people,
or less intell it whatever, I'm going to share this.
This is from the BBC. Being poor can sap a
person's mental resources. Research published in the Journal of Science
suggests the work external by an international team demonstrates how
poverty takes its toll on cognitive function and leaving less
(18:01):
mental capacity for other tasks. The evidence comes from two
studies carried out in India and the US. Previous data
had shown a link between poverty and bad decision making,
but the root causes of this correlation were unclear. The US,
British and Canadian team tried to shed light on this
chicken and egg puzzle by isolating the financial factor from
(18:21):
others that might interfere with the results. One part of
the study used the natural financial cycle tied to the
crop cycle of sugarcane farmers in India. The farmers go
through three crucial stages in the cycle. Before the harvest,
when they have taken out loans to grow the crops
and thus are extremely poor. And then after the harvest
but before being paid, when farmers are at the greatest
(18:44):
extent of their poverty, and after being paid. Okay, so
you can read the rest of the article if you want,
but suffice it to say that there's a cycle embedded
in the farmer's fiscal year that affects their cognitive abilities
capacity to score higher on IQ tests. Right now, I
(19:05):
did some additional research.
Speaker 2 (19:06):
Here.
Speaker 1 (19:07):
Last thing I'll share and I have it written down,
so I'll just read it. Besides genetics, because this is
the argument for you know, white supremacists, people that are
racist so forth is to suggest somehow that white people
are genetically superior and intellectually superior based on their whiteness
or their genetics. Right, So besides genetics, environmental factors such
(19:31):
as socioeconomic status, education, nutrition, Nutrition is a big one, okay,
Early childhood experiences, traumas, et cetera, prenatal factors, physical exercise, age, health, stress, sleep, deprivation,
and exposure to toxins. Read about environmental racism all have
(19:53):
been known to affect IQ. Okay, So I wanted to
share this. This is how you get people from like Appalachia,
you know, largely white communities score lower tests IQ tests,
or people who are living food deserts, you know, black
communities around the country, you know, or whatever. And so
there are factors beyond your genetics that affect your capacity
(20:18):
to learn and to grow. I know you know all
this stuff, Q, but I just want to get your
your thoughts here.
Speaker 2 (20:26):
You know, we we we brought up this topic before
a while ago. Yeah, and I remember not wanting to
talk about it because I just thought the question was ridiculous. Yeah, like,
you know, begging the question of seriously considering a genetic
(20:52):
genome based lack of intellect because of the melon in
your skin today should be a ridiculous thing to ask
out loud. Yeah, you know, even back when this question
was being begged, it was with intent. And we've used
(21:15):
the words pseudoscience, which I hate because it makes it
sound like a science. It makes it sound bolder science,
some legitimacy. It was just insanity. It wasn't science at all.
We're going to prove a conclusion that we've already reached
by creating our own data and our own subsets and
peer review, and if it is peer review, is somebody
who already agrees with me before we even started.
Speaker 1 (21:37):
Like it's just like there's nothing scientific about the process,
and yeah, there's no scientific method or process and you know,
tied to it.
Speaker 2 (21:47):
And again, I think everyone when everyone knows the answer
to the question before we ask it, and asking it
is a waste of time. And both sides of the
argument knew the answer before we asked it, so it
it's a frustrating thing to ever have been pondered. But
the same people that used God and Jesus to justify
slavery and kidnapping and human trafficking pose these kind of
(22:15):
questions all to justify the same things. Right, we can
prove that they're less than human, that they're less than us,
that they deserve this awful treatment, and or that we
tamed and trained the savages so they benefited from the
way that we treated them. We could feel better about
ourselves and our children can smile in the pictures as
(22:36):
we pose next to the most heinous things that we've
ever done to other human beings at picnics of all places.
So entertaining this with even the moticum of actual question mark,
like we don't already know was kind of an annoying
idea to me. But I think you know, as as
(23:00):
my brother would typically say, sometimes you have to say
the ridiculous things out loud, reframe them as ridiculous so
that people don't get caught up in pondering whether or
not this is something they should ever consider. So so
no one else has to ponder this, we did it
for you. You're welcome.
Speaker 1 (23:21):
Yeah, And I'll give a little bit of a peek
behind the curtain. I wouldn't say kicking and screaming, but
you know, when this came up for us to discuss Cuba,
was very much like, do we need to do that again?
Because and I understand it, because it's like, by taking
it seriously and talking about it, it's almost like we
were dignifying it, or we're giving it a modicum of credibility,
(23:46):
which it doesn't deserve. You know, But the fact is
there are some people who might feel that way, and
they might end up in your life, and hopefully now
you know how to engage with them moving on. You know,
something I've noticed lately, Q is that you know, when
(24:06):
we see police at events that we go to because
we have to move around the country quite a bit,
and a lot of times we're around you know, important folks,
elected officials, dignitaries, that sort of stuff, and you know,
we're at the other end of the spectrum too, we're
at protest where you know whatever, but we're you know,
(24:27):
police are part of how we move around. You know,
they're they're there constantly. In recent years, I've noticed that
the police are kind of keeping their faces covered and
that feels super weird.
Speaker 2 (24:42):
Right.
Speaker 1 (24:44):
So, well, first off, you've noticed this too, right.
Speaker 2 (24:48):
It's impossible not to notice. And it's interesting because I
saw something online earlier today where someone was calling something
like this weird, and I thought weird was a weird choice.
This is terrifying. Yeah, there, you like weird makes it
seem like not all that bad, just kind of nuanced, annoying. No,
(25:09):
this is the scariest thing I've ever seen. Yeah, I
have to drive down the street. You know, the law
enforcement vehicles have always made me uncomfortable. Imagine how that
feels now when you don't know who the person is
and you can't recognize them. Again, if you it feels
like there's no way to protect yourself or get some
(25:29):
sort of recompense if this doesn't go your way. Well,
there's an article that came out from the Guardian, and
I think that it kind of speaks to this phenomenon.
So all share Some were baclavas somewhere, neck gators, sunglasses
and hats. Some wear masks and casual clothes. It's a
trend that has sparked alarm among civil rights and law
(25:50):
enforcement experts alike. My German, a former FBI agent, said officers'
widespread use of masks was unprecedented in US law enforcem
and a sign of a rapidly eroding democracy. Quote masking
excuse me symbolizes the drift of law enforcement away from
democratic controls.
Speaker 1 (26:08):
He says, I remember this is a former FBI agent.
All right. The Department of Homeland Security has insisted masks
are necessary to protect officers as privacy, arguing without providing
evidence that there has been an uptick in violence against agents. Okay,
So officers and privacy feels a little weird because I
(26:29):
know that when you ask an officer for their name
and their badge umber, they're supposed to give it to you,
like that's like a law. And the officers work for
the public. So if you're a public servant, you know,
privacy is kind of that. That's that's in you're working
for the public. So the privacy part is not compatible
with the public part. You don't what I'm saying anyway,
I'll finish. But German argued the long term consequences could
(26:54):
be severe. The practice could erode trust in the US
law enforcement agencies. Quote. When it's hard to tell who
a man asked individual is working for, it's hard to
accept that it is a legitimate use of authority. Unquote.
He noted. Andy said when real agents use mask more frequently,
it becomes easier for impostors to operate. This is something
(27:14):
that we know because you know the no knock warrants.
We had a whole deal about that. We've probably spent
a month on that no knock warrants. People can just
kick in the door and say they're the police, get
on the ground, and you don't know if they are
the police or not, right so, and that's very scary.
And if you're a black person and you're exercising your
(27:34):
second memor, right, that could be the end of your life.
Somebody just kicked in the door said they were the police.
You were trying to protect yourself, and then you die.
And we have stories about that, of course, all right,
I'll finish. German, who previously worked under cover in white
supremacists and militia groups and is now a fellow at
the Brennan Center for Justice and Nonprofit, spoke to the
Guardian about the dangers of officer masking, why he thinks
(27:54):
officers are concealing themselves, and how far the US has
deviated from democratic norms of course you can check out
the rest of the article again, that's on the Guardian.
But you know, any thoughts to add here, Q, if
not all jumping out, I mean you said it all man.
Speaker 2 (28:07):
When they're wearing clothes and presenting themselves in a way
that literally anyone can and in this current climate where
immigrants are being targeted, say I was a white racist,
white supremacist who wanted to abduct, kidnapped, beat up, harm
(28:28):
on alive, torture immigrants. I could pull up to any
part of town in any city where I know there's
a concentration of immigrants, present myself with a gator on
and a hat and sunglasses and in a flannel shirt,
have a weapon, and you know, do whatever I want
(28:49):
to them, and the public people watching wouldn't know whether
to intervene or run away, or you know, nobody would
know how or where to look for them, because this
is exactly the same way that actual law enforcement enforcement
is doing it. There's no due process, no actual procedures,
no identification, no uniforms, and your face is covered. It
could be literally anybody, and we've seen cases where it
(29:11):
is anyone. So this is terrifying. Like I said, it's
not weird. It's scary. It can't sleep at night uncomfortable
because all of us know someone who might be a
victim of one of these actual or pretend to tax
(29:32):
And notice that the actual one is just as terrifying
because it's not like there's proper procedure being followed. They're
not being more kind or following more rules or more laws,
or making sure they don't harm or conveniently lose you
in the system. This is a terrifying thing to be
true right now, and not being talked about enough, I
don't think.
Speaker 1 (29:53):
Well, I'm glad I have you to talk about it
with and we're going to keep talking, so stick around
if you want to check that out.
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