May 5, 2025 • 29 mins
Today's special guest is Journalist and TV News Host Joy Ann Reid. She joins Hosts Ramses Ja and Q Ward to recap the "Democracy Under Fire " event at Howard University and also share news on her upcoming projects.
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
And now part two of our two part conversation with
Joy and Reid right here on the Black Information Network
Daily Podcast with your hosts ramses Jah and q Ward.
I was watching something that kind of spoke to that
dynamic in you know, Middle America. We'll call them like,
(00:22):
you know, those those reliably read states, you know, God's
country or however you want to call it. And you're right,
those those people are the most likely to believe conspiracy theories.
They're the most likely to support Donald Trump and whatever
he does, giving him the powers of a king essentially,
(00:45):
they're the most likely to be racist. They're the most
likely to consume propaganda. They're the most like, you know,
there's a whole list, and they fail on all of
these like critical you know, h headings, you know, under
underneath all these critical elements that are important to a
(01:09):
reasonably informed voter base. They're the most likely to ignore harms,
things that will harm their own communities and shape their
own outcomes negatively in order to what they what they
feel is protect their long term interests and their long
term interest in their minds aligned with those of exceptionally
(01:33):
wealthy white Christian men who were born healthy and straight
and so you know, that's a problem that we've found.
But often when we try to engage, you know, people
that that feel that way, there's a pushback. And and
the pushback is that, well, look, these people are not racist.
(01:55):
They're not racist. They just want everything fair. They don't
believe in white privilege. You know, if they if what
is white privilege, they just cannot conceptualize that they were
born with anything extra. And one of the things that
we try to say, and I'd love to get your
thoughts on just kind of this whole group of people
(02:16):
as it relates to people who try to engage in
people that try to inform them, one of the things
that we say is white privilege is being able to
be you know, born and run your race from the
starting line. If you get to start with zero, that's
white privilege. You know, anything else is being born with
a strike against you, essentially, and you have to work
(02:36):
a little harder. You may may have some some hurdles
on your lap where you know, a person who's born
that straight, Christian, healthy white man gets to just run
a fair race, and if we catch up to you,
I think that that kind of attacks your concept of
white superiority. What it must be buried somewhere in your head.
(02:58):
Please share your thoughts on you know how challenging this
has been to engage this community, or maybe some strategies
you know, or ways around it perhaps.
Speaker 2 (03:09):
Okay, So you know, I would say that for those
who believe in their ow mind, and I think that
most people who are MAGA, who support Donald Trump, they
don't think of themselves as racist. Yeah, and would be
quite offended by the idea that anyone thinks they're racist.
(03:32):
And what they'll often say is, as you did, they
just want everything to be fair. But with the data shows,
with the data shows, including this new data, the Pew
Research data, the pri data you name, it is that
only white Americans agree in a majority with the following statement,
(03:57):
discrimination against white people and discrimination against white Christians is
as bad as discrimination is against other people.
Speaker 3 (04:11):
No other group agrees with that.
Speaker 2 (04:13):
They're the only group that views discrimination in their mind
against white people and discrimination, I should say against Christians generally.
So discrimination against Christians and discrimination against whites is as
bad as it's been against other people. In a country
where black people were enslaved, where there was an Asian
(04:33):
Exclusion Act, where non white immigrants were banned from the
country in the nineteen twenties and could not get jobs.
There were signs held up that used to say no Jews,
no Cubans, no blacks. There have never been signs in
America that say no Whites, no Christians. And yet only
(04:55):
white people, white Christians, not even just all whites, but
white Christians. Because white unaligned folks don't agree with this.
White Christians are alone in the polling in a majority,
and I'm talking about two thirds of them, believe that
there is rampant discrimination against white people and against Christians.
(05:16):
And also only white Evangelicals, white Mormons, white Catholics, white
Christians in general in a majority believe right that Donald
Trump should be given all the powers he needs in
order to set the country right, and that diversity programs
(05:39):
and that diversity in general is more harmful than helpful
to the country.
Speaker 3 (05:43):
There is no other group that believes that.
Speaker 2 (05:45):
So, what I would challenge white Americans to do is
ask yourself, why do only white people believe that.
Speaker 3 (05:52):
So?
Speaker 2 (05:53):
And back off from the question of whether you yourself
are racist? As a white person, can you explain why
white Americans are alone in these belief systems? Why no
other group sees it. The sense of victimization, the sense
that white people are being victimized by immigration, victimized by diversity, equity,
(06:14):
and inclusion, and also that elections are being stolen from them.
No other group agrees with that, no other group.
Speaker 3 (06:21):
They're the only ones.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
If white Americans went into were beamed up into space,
like you know, Scotty beamed them up to to the enterprise,
and they were all the earth, no Republican would ever
be elected in the United States again, because only white
Americans vote in a majority for Republicans. Ask they should
ask themselves why every other group is over here and
(06:45):
they're over here. Some thing's going on, and you can't
find any other factor.
Speaker 3 (06:50):
Sorry, this is my dog.
Speaker 2 (06:51):
You can't find any other factor that is relevant when
you peel away all the other factors, economic condition, educational attainment,
No other factor explains it, but race and all of
the islands that white Christians exist on ideologically, you can't
(07:15):
align them with anything else income, region, age, race is
the only one in which they all align. So I
would just challenge people who are white to ask themselves
why that is.
Speaker 3 (07:28):
If it is not about.
Speaker 2 (07:30):
A sense that white people guard their superior condition in
the original Constitution and believe that this country was created
for white chris Ya.
Speaker 4 (07:45):
You know, we often find when trying to have these
types of conversations that we are not dealing with the
same facts, We are not living in the same reality,
which becomes the non starter.
Speaker 1 (08:00):
At the beginning of the conversation, we realize.
Speaker 4 (08:02):
Okay, the facts and the truth cannot be two sided.
There's no two sets of facts that mean the same thing.
There are no two realities or two truths. But as
you just explained, when dealing with people, especially specifically Maga
Trump supporters, who I think identify a piece of themselves
(08:22):
in him, so they end up defending themselves while trying
to defend him. Joy, how do we have these conversations
when we can't start from the same place. What are
some tools that we can use to even try for
our neighbors, for family members at Thanksgiving, for you know,
those who just are contrarian in nature. What are some
(08:46):
starting points to try to get us at least back
to the same set of facts and living in the
same reality.
Speaker 2 (08:55):
I think part of the problem is it's hard to
do that because, as I have observed trump Ism, I
no longer view it as a political ideology. I view
it as essentially a religion, a religion that has in
many ways replaced traditional Christianity and become a version a
(09:16):
sect of Christianity, because again white Catholics, Evangelicals, Protestants, and
people who are Latter day Saints all line up together
on one side for the party that is against immigration,
against feeding the poor, against helping the.
Speaker 3 (09:40):
Sick, everything us for correct.
Speaker 2 (09:44):
If you just listen to the read letters in the Bible,
it states that. And actually the pope who just died,
Pope Francis, his last speech, his last you know, incyclicals
to his public, was that we must care for the
immigrant and the poor. He named himself Francis, after Saint
Francis of a CCD patron of the poor, patron saying
(10:06):
of the poor. There's never been a previous Pope Francis.
And there's a reason for that that no pope, you know,
and they're gilded, you know, fancy, you know, silk slippers
wanted to be associated with me, you know, Saint Francis
until him and he said he would say, I am
of the poor, and the poor are me?
Speaker 3 (10:21):
I am of them? Right?
Speaker 2 (10:23):
And Christians in America, Evangelical Christians disagree with that. They
disagree with the red letters of Jesus. So what I
tend to think is it's a religion. I couldn't talk
someone out of being a Buddhist if I try, and
I wouldn't try. So I don't try to talk people
out of Mechanism because I think it's a religion and
I can't talk people out of their religion. But what
I do think that is useful when you're talking to
people who are aligned with him is just ask them
(10:45):
some very simple questions and ask and keep asking and
drilling into the facts they think are true. When they
say tariffs are going to make the economy better, say why, how, well,
because the foreign government's going to pay them?
Speaker 3 (11:02):
Really, because when.
Speaker 2 (11:03):
The importer brings them in, the importer has to pay
those tariffs. Right, how does the country get involved in that?
That sent them that they're not involved? And just keep
making them justify what they're doing. I think at a
certain point, you see a lot of these people do
this on TikTok, where they try to get mag of
people to explain the things they believe.
Speaker 3 (11:21):
Yeah, and they generally can't.
Speaker 2 (11:22):
They can't support it, Just let them try and see
and see if that breaks the spell.
Speaker 1 (11:30):
We are here today with American political commentator, best selling author,
and television host Joy and Read. Okay, so I recognize
and have for some time that you know, we're in
a challenging place. But there's this sense of what should
(11:58):
we focus on? What first? What's the most important thing?
You know. Obviously we've talked about Donald Trump himself and
the strategy of his regime. I like that word. We've
talked about white evangelicals and and how they feel as
though the country is being taken from them specifically, and
(12:19):
that they are being treated unfairly. We've talked about we've
touched on, you know, maybe the strategies that that democrats
should you know, consider, you know, using I know that
you're doing it with the with the tour, but you know,
(12:39):
it's it's not inconceivable to to see democrats implementing something similar,
just asking people what do you want? And you know,
this conversation obviously is a lot bigger than today's episode,
but I think that you know, just coming from your
your mind and your vantage point, this question could certainly
at minim be interesting, you know, to get your response.
(13:03):
But for a lot of people, it could, you know,
give them a sense of Okay, here's what we should
be focusing on. So I'll ask if you had a
magic wand and you could make an instant change to
I'm not going to ask about the country, because obviously
I think I know what that answer would be. But
(13:24):
if you could make an instant change, let's say to
the Democratic Party, what would you change about the Democratic
Party that you think would would lead to better outcomes,
not just for Democrats but for the country.
Speaker 3 (13:39):
Oh, that's a long conversation.
Speaker 1 (13:41):
I'm sorry.
Speaker 2 (13:42):
Having worked in Democratic campaign politics, I think the Democratic
Party has a lot of problems, sure, and I would
I would point to I'll just point to two that
I think are really big. I think one of them
is Democrats general refusal to embrace the base they have
(14:05):
rather than coveting the base Republicans have. I think, in general,
my experience with the Democratic Party is that their base
is multi racial. It's heavily black. Democrats really rely on
black voters and on brown voters, but they really want
white voters. They really really want white working class voters back,
(14:29):
and that has caused them to fixate on those voters
almost to the exclusion of everyone else. To make assumptions
about black and brown and young voters and aapi voters
that are that are not supported by evidence. They just
assume the blacks will come out and.
Speaker 1 (14:46):
Vote, especially for Kamala Yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:49):
Correct, and so yeah, percentage wise they will. But there's
also a third person always in every race, and it's
called the couch. And in this race, millions of us
chose the couch. Millions of young voters chose the couch.
Thirty percent of Americans voted for Kamala Harris, thirty one
(15:12):
percent voted for Donald Trump.
Speaker 3 (15:14):
The rest voted for the couch. That's a problem.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
The pri polls show that a third of the voters
who chose not to vote in the last election now
regret their vote, and a majority of those who did
not vote in the last election, this is across all races,
and who regret their vote about seventy percent of them
believe Donald Trump is a dictator. So there is a
(15:40):
pool of voters out there who you could pull off
the couch if you would just focus on them and
ask them for their votes. The second issue I have
with the Democratic Party is that they are also very
married to neoliberal economics. You hear Democrats talk a lot
about the middle class, the middle class, to the middle class,
the middle class, the middle class is shrinking. A lot
of their voters are not middle class, early middle class,
(16:00):
working class or or Democrats ignore them completely.
Speaker 3 (16:05):
They don't talk about them.
Speaker 2 (16:07):
They only talk about this mythical middle class, and they
focus their economic ideas on this mythical middle class. College
educated and you know college educated, people whose kids go
to college, people who themselves went to college or have
PhDs that people watch MSNBC. That is a part of
(16:28):
the electorate. But in America, only about at maximum forty
percent of Americans have college degrees, and that's only in
about twenty two states. In the rest of the states,
fewer than thirty percent of Americans have college degrees. College
entertainment is not a majority position.
Speaker 1 (16:43):
Yeah, if I may, I want to make sure that
I interject this andque don't let me jump in front
of you. But I heard something said recently. I think
that the gentleman's name is doctor Roy Casa Granda, if
I'm not mistaken, that's his name. But he said something
that was so potent, and he said that the difference
between middle class and poor is essentially it's just stable housing.
(17:06):
And so I think it's it's important to kind of
help illuminate the point that you're making in terms of
how the middle class is shrinking and what we would
typically conceive of as middle class. That is very much
a myth nowadays. And so yeah, I think you're right.
For folks to hyperfixiate on the mythical middle middle class
ignores the reality of our current predicament. And they're they're
(17:28):
playing politics as usual, and this is not the state
of play anymore. So so continue absolutely.
Speaker 2 (17:35):
No, and and and you're and you're absolutely right in
that if you only focus on the middle class and
suburban college educated voters, and you're going for the suburbs,
will the poor and the working class include rural people,
not all of them are white. That includes people who,
as you said, have unstable housing. That includes people who
are one paycheck away from poverty, people who are using
(17:57):
payday loans to pay for groceries, which is a phenomenon.
Democrats don't talk about that. They don't talk like that.
You know who talks about the working class, Republicans And
they don't even care about the working class, they could
give it him. They only care about the super rich,
but they talk like they care about the working class.
And the third thing I would say about Democrats that
is a problem, if we had to have three big diagnoses,
(18:19):
it is their.
Speaker 3 (18:20):
Fervent defense of the system.
Speaker 2 (18:22):
Democrats are systems people, and they insist that what we
must do is defend democracy, defend the system.
Speaker 3 (18:28):
Well, the system doesn't.
Speaker 2 (18:29):
Work for a lot of people, and so when you're
a person defending the system, you you are essentially rejecting
people in your own base who think the system is
failing and who voting for even Barack Obama did nothing
for them. They didn't get anything materially from it. Whereas
when Donald Trump got elected, in their mind they got
(18:49):
a check, even though the check was from Nancy Pelosi.
Speaker 3 (18:52):
But the Democrats weren't smart.
Speaker 1 (18:53):
Enough to.
Speaker 3 (18:57):
So they think Trump is a check. They think Trump eaples.
Speaker 2 (19:00):
I'm aro having a conversation with a United States senatorial
candidate who said, well, what should I be saying? And
I said, cut all the rest of your speech out
and just say checks. It's say it works, that's what
people need.
Speaker 4 (19:15):
You spoke about college educated and immediately what popped into
my head was the dismantling of the Department of Education.
The other side trying to rewrite or erase our history
and major institutions of higher learning kind of bending the
(19:35):
knee preemptively to the wishes of this administration and the
newly re elected president. Your alma mater, however, made the
news for some different reasons recently as a Harvard graduate,
tell us a little bit about your thoughts of Harvard
to just not bow to that pressure that the Trump
(19:58):
administration is kind of blanketing all institutions of higher learning with.
Speaker 3 (20:04):
I was very pleasantly surprised.
Speaker 2 (20:06):
I was very proud of Harvard, and I haven't said
that very often since I graduated in nineteen ninety one Harvard.
You know, I took X ten at Harvard. Harvard is
not a liberal institution. The idea it's liberal is kind
of ridiculous. It's full of very rich people. Legacies are
about forty three percent of the the admittees who just
get there because the granddaddy went there and they're super rich,
and they have named some of the buildings are named
(20:27):
after him. Harvard teaches neoliberal economics and nothing else. They
teach against equity and inclusion. They're just not liberal. But
in this case, they are one hundred and forty years
older than the United States, and they have a fifty
three billion dollar endowment, and they're not going to be
told what to do by a mere president of the
United States, who, in their mind is an ephemeral figure
(20:48):
who will be out in four years or maybe eight,
or maybe twelve or until he dies.
Speaker 1 (20:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:53):
So I'm proud of Harvard, and I wish more institutions.
I think Columbia was of the opposite and abject failure.
Didn't defend their students who are being deported without due process,
didn't defend democracy, and bent the knee. So I'm hoping
that Harvard and also the Big ten. I'll give the
Big ten colleges their due that they're standing up to him.
(21:15):
I think any way that people are standing up to
Trump in large ways are small big ups. To Jalen Hurts,
I'm about to be an Eagles fan for life now
because that way, that wasn't even my team.
Speaker 3 (21:24):
But he's like, yeah, I.
Speaker 2 (21:26):
Got other things to do than to go stand around
with Donald Trump, you know, and I'm not doing it.
Speaker 1 (21:32):
Yeah. I liked that, couldn't cur I'm with that. I
like that absolutely. I know that we're short on time,
but I wanted to make sure that we ask you
about this because you know, you've had a lot to
say about, you know, the boycotting of Target, and you know,
just the resistance. You know, we talked about obviously Harvard
(21:53):
and the Big ten uh and I applaud them as well,
them getting together and figuring out ways to resist Donald Trump.
But that's as people, individuals who can choose to shop
here to shop there, you know, talk to us about
maybe and talk to our listeners I should say about
maybe the long term strategy of boycotts and how you
see them as having the potential to shape political outcomes.
Speaker 2 (22:18):
Yeah, what I would say is that, you know, I'm
a student of the apartheid movement in South Africa, and
the way that eventually South Africa's black South Africans.
Speaker 3 (22:29):
Broke apartheid was through general strikes.
Speaker 2 (22:32):
It was by making the country ungovernable and economically unsound.
And that was through a combination of encouraging divestment and
boycott externally and using general strikes and economic resistance internally.
And that is the way you ultimately can break autocracy
and in our country. I just wrote a book about
Medgar Everson Meurley Evers Williams, and one of the ways
(22:55):
that Medgar fought against autocracy here was to encourage people
to use boycotts and to use boycotts to break the
autocracy in Mississippi. And what he would say is that
not everyone has got the capacity to march, or has
got the courage to march, or has got the courage
(23:17):
to engage in civic activism, because it's risky to go
out there and put yourself in the you know what,
the police and the authorities. But everyone can do a
little something. He launched his boycott against the Jackson retailers
who would not respect black customers by saying, and he
launched it during Easter, and he said, rather than go
and buy your new Easter outfit this year, maybe make
(23:38):
an outfit or where what you wore last year. Just
refuse to shop when you're not respected. And I believe
that MegaR was right. I would not set foot in
a store that treated me with disrespect. And Harvard treated
our community with disrespect. They don't deserve our dollars. Walmart
did the same thing. All of these companies Amazon, Jeff Bezos,
these companies that have said we don't want diversity, then fine,
(24:01):
you don't have to have diversity in your customers either.
Speaker 1 (24:05):
Ooh.
Speaker 2 (24:06):
That is to me, the small thing we can each do.
We can just choose to shop elsewhere, choose not to
hand our money to people who would bow down to
a wanna be dictator. If you can just do that
little thing, you are already doing the activism that's possible
for you, and you are already doing something heroic for yourself,
(24:27):
your community, your dignity, and your country.
Speaker 1 (24:30):
Joyanne Reid.
Speaker 4 (24:31):
We already express to you that you are literally a
superhero to us. Our listeners, we assume, and I'm not
even assume, and I know how they feel are going
to be just as excited to hear your voice as
we are to be having this conversation with you. Catch
us all up on what's next for you, how we
(24:54):
can keep what with you, social media websites, whatever that is.
Speaker 1 (24:59):
Because I was.
Speaker 4 (25:00):
Talking to a great friend of ours, Jamail Hill, who
loves you to life, and we just all want to
be able to show up for you, specifically in this
moment and moving forward, and the best way that we can.
Speaker 1 (25:14):
So, how do we support you? How do we keep
up with you?
Speaker 4 (25:17):
Besides Ramses and I crashing this tour and showing up
to give you a hub, how can we all collectively
be a part of the joyane Read movement.
Speaker 3 (25:26):
Well, I appreciate that.
Speaker 2 (25:27):
And you know, jamel Hill, that's my girl, that is
my machete.
Speaker 3 (25:30):
Sister and vacation buddy. So absolutely love her.
Speaker 2 (25:32):
And big ups to Jamail who is fighting the good
fight in a tough atmosphere. She did that ye which
is a rough atmosphere. Yes, indeed, and one and beat
them at their own game. I keep it real simple.
Pretty much everything that I do is at Joyanne Read.
So I am at joy and read on Instagram. I
am at joy and read on threads. I'm at joy
(25:54):
and read on Blue Sky, and my sub stack is.
Speaker 3 (25:58):
Joyanneread dot com.
Speaker 2 (26:00):
The only place that's a little bit different is on
TikTok and Facebook. I'm joy Read Official And if you
subscribe to me on yead dot com. I do not
charge for subscriptions. You can just subscribe for free. The
only people that I charge a fee too is if
you want to comment to me, because I you're gonna
trow me. You're gonna have to put some coins in
the bucket you want to be a comment or you
gotta pay is free. I don't believe in paywalls. You
(26:22):
guys can just subscribe to my subseac on joyanread dot com.
I try to post every day some kind of thought
or thing, and I will also be announcing there and
of course on read this Read That my podcast with
Jackie Read my Sore Sister, cousin friend, and I will
be letting folks know on those two forums when my
new show, which is going to be called The joy
(26:43):
Read Show, will be launching.
Speaker 3 (26:44):
So I am launching a new show. Find out when.
Speaker 2 (26:47):
I'm giving you all the little sneak peak preview on
this podcast. But the show is going to launch very soon,
and I'm going to make the announcement on joynread dot com.
Speaker 1 (26:55):
And don't read this read that, well listen, we will
we will take it because as I mentioned, as Q mentioned,
you know you are like you know that north Star.
We've had to piece together our journey as activist and
as you know, talk radio personalities. As I mentioned, you know,
we're DJs. We're giveaway cardi B tickets and Migos tickets.
(27:19):
That's what we do, and so you know, stepping into
this space because the work is necessary. We felt the
work was necessary, especially in hip hop radios stations around
the country. Not having a blueprint is kind of scary
and it's kind of intimidating and knowing that you're there
consistently showing us things that we need to see, providing perspective,
(27:41):
giving us ways to challenge, you know, the pushback that
we receive as we travel around the country. Of course,
as we host our program and we have listeners interact.
It's been the people that tell us to keep going
because the work we do matters. You know. That's that's
us now saying that to you, because have not been
for you. There's so many times we would have been
(28:04):
more lost than we were and absolutely because of you
we were able to find our way more than once.
And we will continue to watch you, to watch you
shine and support you however we can, as Q mentioned,
So with that in mind, i'd like to say thank
you again very much for taking time to come here
(28:25):
and talk to us, to share your insight with us,
your brilliance with us, and to obviously to make an
announcement on your forthcoming show and how people can stay
in touch with you and hopefully become fans of you
if they haven't been before in the same way that
we are so once again. Today's guest is American political commentator,
best selling author and television host Joy and Read.
Speaker 3 (28:47):
Ramsey is and cute.
Speaker 2 (28:48):
Thank you all very much. Look as an old hip hoophead.
First of all, I will take those CARDI B tickets if.
Speaker 1 (28:52):
You want to.
Speaker 3 (28:56):
And look, I'm look.
Speaker 2 (28:58):
My theme song when I graduated from Harvard me and
my best friend shots you unfortunately pass Since then, our
theme song was can I Kick It?
Speaker 3 (29:06):
Yes you can?
Speaker 1 (29:07):
Yes you can?
Speaker 3 (29:08):
You can tip in a trial called quest. I'm a
og hip hop fans.
Speaker 2 (29:11):
I appreciate Joa and it's always great to be with
fellow hip hop fans.
Speaker 3 (29:13):
I appreciate.
Speaker 1 (29:17):
This has been a production of the Black Information Network.
Today's show is produced by Chris Thompson. Have some thoughts
you'd like to share, use the red microphone talkback feature
on the iHeartRadio app. While you're there, be sure to
hit subscribe and download all of our episodes. I'm your
host ramses Jah on all social media. I am q
Ward on all social media as well, and join us
(29:38):
tomorrow as we share our news with our voice from
our perspective right here on the Black Information Network Daily
podcast
And now part two of our two part conversation with
Joy and Reid right here on the Black Information Network
Daily Podcast with your hosts ramses Jah and q Ward.
I was watching something that kind of spoke to that
dynamic in you know, Middle America. We'll call them like,
(00:22):
you know, those those reliably read states, you know, God's
country or however you want to call it. And you're right,
those those people are the most likely to believe conspiracy theories.
They're the most likely to support Donald Trump and whatever
he does, giving him the powers of a king essentially,
(00:45):
they're the most likely to be racist. They're the most
likely to consume propaganda. They're the most like, you know,
there's a whole list, and they fail on all of
these like critical you know, h headings, you know, under
underneath all these critical elements that are important to a
(01:09):
reasonably informed voter base. They're the most likely to ignore harms,
things that will harm their own communities and shape their
own outcomes negatively in order to what they what they
feel is protect their long term interests and their long
term interest in their minds aligned with those of exceptionally
(01:33):
wealthy white Christian men who were born healthy and straight
and so you know, that's a problem that we've found.
But often when we try to engage, you know, people
that that feel that way, there's a pushback. And and
the pushback is that, well, look, these people are not racist.
(01:55):
They're not racist. They just want everything fair. They don't
believe in white privilege. You know, if they if what
is white privilege, they just cannot conceptualize that they were
born with anything extra. And one of the things that
we try to say, and I'd love to get your
thoughts on just kind of this whole group of people
(02:16):
as it relates to people who try to engage in
people that try to inform them, one of the things
that we say is white privilege is being able to
be you know, born and run your race from the
starting line. If you get to start with zero, that's
white privilege. You know, anything else is being born with
a strike against you, essentially, and you have to work
(02:36):
a little harder. You may may have some some hurdles
on your lap where you know, a person who's born
that straight, Christian, healthy white man gets to just run
a fair race, and if we catch up to you,
I think that that kind of attacks your concept of
white superiority. What it must be buried somewhere in your head.
(02:58):
Please share your thoughts on you know how challenging this
has been to engage this community, or maybe some strategies
you know, or ways around it perhaps.
Speaker 2 (03:09):
Okay, So you know, I would say that for those
who believe in their ow mind, and I think that
most people who are MAGA, who support Donald Trump, they
don't think of themselves as racist. Yeah, and would be
quite offended by the idea that anyone thinks they're racist.
(03:32):
And what they'll often say is, as you did, they
just want everything to be fair. But with the data shows,
with the data shows, including this new data, the Pew
Research data, the pri data you name, it is that
only white Americans agree in a majority with the following statement,
(03:57):
discrimination against white people and discrimination against white Christians is
as bad as discrimination is against other people.
Speaker 3 (04:11):
No other group agrees with that.
Speaker 2 (04:13):
They're the only group that views discrimination in their mind
against white people and discrimination, I should say against Christians generally.
So discrimination against Christians and discrimination against whites is as
bad as it's been against other people. In a country
where black people were enslaved, where there was an Asian
(04:33):
Exclusion Act, where non white immigrants were banned from the
country in the nineteen twenties and could not get jobs.
There were signs held up that used to say no Jews,
no Cubans, no blacks. There have never been signs in
America that say no Whites, no Christians. And yet only
(04:55):
white people, white Christians, not even just all whites, but
white Christians. Because white unaligned folks don't agree with this.
White Christians are alone in the polling in a majority,
and I'm talking about two thirds of them, believe that
there is rampant discrimination against white people and against Christians.
(05:16):
And also only white Evangelicals, white Mormons, white Catholics, white
Christians in general in a majority believe right that Donald
Trump should be given all the powers he needs in
order to set the country right, and that diversity programs
(05:39):
and that diversity in general is more harmful than helpful
to the country.
Speaker 3 (05:43):
There is no other group that believes that.
Speaker 2 (05:45):
So, what I would challenge white Americans to do is
ask yourself, why do only white people believe that.
Speaker 3 (05:52):
So?
Speaker 2 (05:53):
And back off from the question of whether you yourself
are racist? As a white person, can you explain why
white Americans are alone in these belief systems? Why no
other group sees it. The sense of victimization, the sense
that white people are being victimized by immigration, victimized by diversity, equity,
(06:14):
and inclusion, and also that elections are being stolen from them.
No other group agrees with that, no other group.
Speaker 3 (06:21):
They're the only ones.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
If white Americans went into were beamed up into space,
like you know, Scotty beamed them up to to the enterprise,
and they were all the earth, no Republican would ever
be elected in the United States again, because only white
Americans vote in a majority for Republicans. Ask they should
ask themselves why every other group is over here and
(06:45):
they're over here. Some thing's going on, and you can't
find any other factor.
Speaker 3 (06:50):
Sorry, this is my dog.
Speaker 2 (06:51):
You can't find any other factor that is relevant when
you peel away all the other factors, economic condition, educational attainment,
No other factor explains it, but race and all of
the islands that white Christians exist on ideologically, you can't
(07:15):
align them with anything else income, region, age, race is
the only one in which they all align. So I
would just challenge people who are white to ask themselves
why that is.
Speaker 3 (07:28):
If it is not about.
Speaker 2 (07:30):
A sense that white people guard their superior condition in
the original Constitution and believe that this country was created
for white chris Ya.
Speaker 4 (07:45):
You know, we often find when trying to have these
types of conversations that we are not dealing with the
same facts, We are not living in the same reality,
which becomes the non starter.
Speaker 1 (08:00):
At the beginning of the conversation, we realize.
Speaker 4 (08:02):
Okay, the facts and the truth cannot be two sided.
There's no two sets of facts that mean the same thing.
There are no two realities or two truths. But as
you just explained, when dealing with people, especially specifically Maga
Trump supporters, who I think identify a piece of themselves
(08:22):
in him, so they end up defending themselves while trying
to defend him. Joy, how do we have these conversations
when we can't start from the same place. What are
some tools that we can use to even try for
our neighbors, for family members at Thanksgiving, for you know,
those who just are contrarian in nature. What are some
(08:46):
starting points to try to get us at least back
to the same set of facts and living in the
same reality.
Speaker 2 (08:55):
I think part of the problem is it's hard to
do that because, as I have observed trump Ism, I
no longer view it as a political ideology. I view
it as essentially a religion, a religion that has in
many ways replaced traditional Christianity and become a version a
(09:16):
sect of Christianity, because again white Catholics, Evangelicals, Protestants, and
people who are Latter day Saints all line up together
on one side for the party that is against immigration,
against feeding the poor, against helping the.
Speaker 3 (09:40):
Sick, everything us for correct.
Speaker 2 (09:44):
If you just listen to the read letters in the Bible,
it states that. And actually the pope who just died,
Pope Francis, his last speech, his last you know, incyclicals
to his public, was that we must care for the
immigrant and the poor. He named himself Francis, after Saint
Francis of a CCD patron of the poor, patron saying
(10:06):
of the poor. There's never been a previous Pope Francis.
And there's a reason for that that no pope, you know,
and they're gilded, you know, fancy, you know, silk slippers
wanted to be associated with me, you know, Saint Francis
until him and he said he would say, I am
of the poor, and the poor are me?
Speaker 3 (10:21):
I am of them? Right?
Speaker 2 (10:23):
And Christians in America, Evangelical Christians disagree with that. They
disagree with the red letters of Jesus. So what I
tend to think is it's a religion. I couldn't talk
someone out of being a Buddhist if I try, and
I wouldn't try. So I don't try to talk people
out of Mechanism because I think it's a religion and
I can't talk people out of their religion. But what
I do think that is useful when you're talking to
people who are aligned with him is just ask them
(10:45):
some very simple questions and ask and keep asking and
drilling into the facts they think are true. When they
say tariffs are going to make the economy better, say why, how, well,
because the foreign government's going to pay them?
Speaker 3 (11:02):
Really, because when.
Speaker 2 (11:03):
The importer brings them in, the importer has to pay
those tariffs. Right, how does the country get involved in that?
That sent them that they're not involved? And just keep
making them justify what they're doing. I think at a
certain point, you see a lot of these people do
this on TikTok, where they try to get mag of
people to explain the things they believe.
Speaker 3 (11:21):
Yeah, and they generally can't.
Speaker 2 (11:22):
They can't support it, Just let them try and see
and see if that breaks the spell.
Speaker 1 (11:30):
We are here today with American political commentator, best selling author,
and television host Joy and Read. Okay, so I recognize
and have for some time that you know, we're in
a challenging place. But there's this sense of what should
(11:58):
we focus on? What first? What's the most important thing?
You know. Obviously we've talked about Donald Trump himself and
the strategy of his regime. I like that word. We've
talked about white evangelicals and and how they feel as
though the country is being taken from them specifically, and
(12:19):
that they are being treated unfairly. We've talked about we've
touched on, you know, maybe the strategies that that democrats
should you know, consider, you know, using I know that
you're doing it with the with the tour, but you know,
(12:39):
it's it's not inconceivable to to see democrats implementing something similar,
just asking people what do you want? And you know,
this conversation obviously is a lot bigger than today's episode,
but I think that you know, just coming from your
your mind and your vantage point, this question could certainly
at minim be interesting, you know, to get your response.
(13:03):
But for a lot of people, it could, you know,
give them a sense of Okay, here's what we should
be focusing on. So I'll ask if you had a
magic wand and you could make an instant change to
I'm not going to ask about the country, because obviously
I think I know what that answer would be. But
(13:24):
if you could make an instant change, let's say to
the Democratic Party, what would you change about the Democratic
Party that you think would would lead to better outcomes,
not just for Democrats but for the country.
Speaker 3 (13:39):
Oh, that's a long conversation.
Speaker 1 (13:41):
I'm sorry.
Speaker 2 (13:42):
Having worked in Democratic campaign politics, I think the Democratic
Party has a lot of problems, sure, and I would
I would point to I'll just point to two that
I think are really big. I think one of them
is Democrats general refusal to embrace the base they have
(14:05):
rather than coveting the base Republicans have. I think, in general,
my experience with the Democratic Party is that their base
is multi racial. It's heavily black. Democrats really rely on
black voters and on brown voters, but they really want
white voters. They really really want white working class voters back,
(14:29):
and that has caused them to fixate on those voters
almost to the exclusion of everyone else. To make assumptions
about black and brown and young voters and aapi voters
that are that are not supported by evidence. They just
assume the blacks will come out and.
Speaker 1 (14:46):
Vote, especially for Kamala Yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:49):
Correct, and so yeah, percentage wise they will. But there's
also a third person always in every race, and it's
called the couch. And in this race, millions of us
chose the couch. Millions of young voters chose the couch.
Thirty percent of Americans voted for Kamala Harris, thirty one
(15:12):
percent voted for Donald Trump.
Speaker 3 (15:14):
The rest voted for the couch. That's a problem.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
The pri polls show that a third of the voters
who chose not to vote in the last election now
regret their vote, and a majority of those who did
not vote in the last election, this is across all races,
and who regret their vote about seventy percent of them
believe Donald Trump is a dictator. So there is a
(15:40):
pool of voters out there who you could pull off
the couch if you would just focus on them and
ask them for their votes. The second issue I have
with the Democratic Party is that they are also very
married to neoliberal economics. You hear Democrats talk a lot
about the middle class, the middle class, to the middle class,
the middle class, the middle class is shrinking. A lot
of their voters are not middle class, early middle class,
(16:00):
working class or or Democrats ignore them completely.
Speaker 3 (16:05):
They don't talk about them.
Speaker 2 (16:07):
They only talk about this mythical middle class, and they
focus their economic ideas on this mythical middle class. College
educated and you know college educated, people whose kids go
to college, people who themselves went to college or have
PhDs that people watch MSNBC. That is a part of
(16:28):
the electorate. But in America, only about at maximum forty
percent of Americans have college degrees, and that's only in
about twenty two states. In the rest of the states,
fewer than thirty percent of Americans have college degrees. College
entertainment is not a majority position.
Speaker 1 (16:43):
Yeah, if I may, I want to make sure that
I interject this andque don't let me jump in front
of you. But I heard something said recently. I think
that the gentleman's name is doctor Roy Casa Granda, if
I'm not mistaken, that's his name. But he said something
that was so potent, and he said that the difference
between middle class and poor is essentially it's just stable housing.
(17:06):
And so I think it's it's important to kind of
help illuminate the point that you're making in terms of
how the middle class is shrinking and what we would
typically conceive of as middle class. That is very much
a myth nowadays. And so yeah, I think you're right.
For folks to hyperfixiate on the mythical middle middle class
ignores the reality of our current predicament. And they're they're
(17:28):
playing politics as usual, and this is not the state
of play anymore. So so continue absolutely.
Speaker 2 (17:35):
No, and and and you're and you're absolutely right in
that if you only focus on the middle class and
suburban college educated voters, and you're going for the suburbs,
will the poor and the working class include rural people,
not all of them are white. That includes people who,
as you said, have unstable housing. That includes people who
are one paycheck away from poverty, people who are using
(17:57):
payday loans to pay for groceries, which is a phenomenon.
Democrats don't talk about that. They don't talk like that.
You know who talks about the working class, Republicans And
they don't even care about the working class, they could
give it him. They only care about the super rich,
but they talk like they care about the working class.
And the third thing I would say about Democrats that
is a problem, if we had to have three big diagnoses,
(18:19):
it is their.
Speaker 3 (18:20):
Fervent defense of the system.
Speaker 2 (18:22):
Democrats are systems people, and they insist that what we
must do is defend democracy, defend the system.
Speaker 3 (18:28):
Well, the system doesn't.
Speaker 2 (18:29):
Work for a lot of people, and so when you're
a person defending the system, you you are essentially rejecting
people in your own base who think the system is
failing and who voting for even Barack Obama did nothing
for them. They didn't get anything materially from it. Whereas
when Donald Trump got elected, in their mind they got
(18:49):
a check, even though the check was from Nancy Pelosi.
Speaker 3 (18:52):
But the Democrats weren't smart.
Speaker 1 (18:53):
Enough to.
Speaker 3 (18:57):
So they think Trump is a check. They think Trump eaples.
Speaker 2 (19:00):
I'm aro having a conversation with a United States senatorial
candidate who said, well, what should I be saying? And
I said, cut all the rest of your speech out
and just say checks. It's say it works, that's what
people need.
Speaker 4 (19:15):
You spoke about college educated and immediately what popped into
my head was the dismantling of the Department of Education.
The other side trying to rewrite or erase our history
and major institutions of higher learning kind of bending the
(19:35):
knee preemptively to the wishes of this administration and the
newly re elected president. Your alma mater, however, made the
news for some different reasons recently as a Harvard graduate,
tell us a little bit about your thoughts of Harvard
to just not bow to that pressure that the Trump
(19:58):
administration is kind of blanketing all institutions of higher learning with.
Speaker 3 (20:04):
I was very pleasantly surprised.
Speaker 2 (20:06):
I was very proud of Harvard, and I haven't said
that very often since I graduated in nineteen ninety one Harvard.
You know, I took X ten at Harvard. Harvard is
not a liberal institution. The idea it's liberal is kind
of ridiculous. It's full of very rich people. Legacies are
about forty three percent of the the admittees who just
get there because the granddaddy went there and they're super rich,
and they have named some of the buildings are named
(20:27):
after him. Harvard teaches neoliberal economics and nothing else. They
teach against equity and inclusion. They're just not liberal. But
in this case, they are one hundred and forty years
older than the United States, and they have a fifty
three billion dollar endowment, and they're not going to be
told what to do by a mere president of the
United States, who, in their mind is an ephemeral figure
(20:48):
who will be out in four years or maybe eight,
or maybe twelve or until he dies.
Speaker 1 (20:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:53):
So I'm proud of Harvard, and I wish more institutions.
I think Columbia was of the opposite and abject failure.
Didn't defend their students who are being deported without due process,
didn't defend democracy, and bent the knee. So I'm hoping
that Harvard and also the Big ten. I'll give the
Big ten colleges their due that they're standing up to him.
(21:15):
I think any way that people are standing up to
Trump in large ways are small big ups. To Jalen Hurts,
I'm about to be an Eagles fan for life now
because that way, that wasn't even my team.
Speaker 3 (21:24):
But he's like, yeah, I.
Speaker 2 (21:26):
Got other things to do than to go stand around
with Donald Trump, you know, and I'm not doing it.
Speaker 1 (21:32):
Yeah. I liked that, couldn't cur I'm with that. I
like that absolutely. I know that we're short on time,
but I wanted to make sure that we ask you
about this because you know, you've had a lot to
say about, you know, the boycotting of Target, and you know,
just the resistance. You know, we talked about obviously Harvard
(21:53):
and the Big ten uh and I applaud them as well,
them getting together and figuring out ways to resist Donald Trump.
But that's as people, individuals who can choose to shop
here to shop there, you know, talk to us about
maybe and talk to our listeners I should say about
maybe the long term strategy of boycotts and how you
see them as having the potential to shape political outcomes.
Speaker 2 (22:18):
Yeah, what I would say is that, you know, I'm
a student of the apartheid movement in South Africa, and
the way that eventually South Africa's black South Africans.
Speaker 3 (22:29):
Broke apartheid was through general strikes.
Speaker 2 (22:32):
It was by making the country ungovernable and economically unsound.
And that was through a combination of encouraging divestment and
boycott externally and using general strikes and economic resistance internally.
And that is the way you ultimately can break autocracy
and in our country. I just wrote a book about
Medgar Everson Meurley Evers Williams, and one of the ways
(22:55):
that Medgar fought against autocracy here was to encourage people
to use boycotts and to use boycotts to break the
autocracy in Mississippi. And what he would say is that
not everyone has got the capacity to march, or has
got the courage to march, or has got the courage
(23:17):
to engage in civic activism, because it's risky to go
out there and put yourself in the you know what,
the police and the authorities. But everyone can do a
little something. He launched his boycott against the Jackson retailers
who would not respect black customers by saying, and he
launched it during Easter, and he said, rather than go
and buy your new Easter outfit this year, maybe make
(23:38):
an outfit or where what you wore last year. Just
refuse to shop when you're not respected. And I believe
that MegaR was right. I would not set foot in
a store that treated me with disrespect. And Harvard treated
our community with disrespect. They don't deserve our dollars. Walmart
did the same thing. All of these companies Amazon, Jeff Bezos,
these companies that have said we don't want diversity, then fine,
(24:01):
you don't have to have diversity in your customers either.
Speaker 1 (24:05):
Ooh.
Speaker 2 (24:06):
That is to me, the small thing we can each do.
We can just choose to shop elsewhere, choose not to
hand our money to people who would bow down to
a wanna be dictator. If you can just do that
little thing, you are already doing the activism that's possible
for you, and you are already doing something heroic for yourself,
(24:27):
your community, your dignity, and your country.
Speaker 1 (24:30):
Joyanne Reid.
Speaker 4 (24:31):
We already express to you that you are literally a
superhero to us. Our listeners, we assume, and I'm not
even assume, and I know how they feel are going
to be just as excited to hear your voice as
we are to be having this conversation with you. Catch
us all up on what's next for you, how we
(24:54):
can keep what with you, social media websites, whatever that is.
Speaker 1 (24:59):
Because I was.
Speaker 4 (25:00):
Talking to a great friend of ours, Jamail Hill, who
loves you to life, and we just all want to
be able to show up for you, specifically in this
moment and moving forward, and the best way that we can.
Speaker 1 (25:14):
So, how do we support you? How do we keep
up with you?
Speaker 4 (25:17):
Besides Ramses and I crashing this tour and showing up
to give you a hub, how can we all collectively
be a part of the joyane Read movement.
Speaker 3 (25:26):
Well, I appreciate that.
Speaker 2 (25:27):
And you know, jamel Hill, that's my girl, that is
my machete.
Speaker 3 (25:30):
Sister and vacation buddy. So absolutely love her.
Speaker 2 (25:32):
And big ups to Jamail who is fighting the good
fight in a tough atmosphere. She did that ye which
is a rough atmosphere. Yes, indeed, and one and beat
them at their own game. I keep it real simple.
Pretty much everything that I do is at Joyanne Read.
So I am at joy and read on Instagram. I
am at joy and read on threads. I'm at joy
(25:54):
and read on Blue Sky, and my sub stack is.
Speaker 3 (25:58):
Joyanneread dot com.
Speaker 2 (26:00):
The only place that's a little bit different is on
TikTok and Facebook. I'm joy Read Official And if you
subscribe to me on yead dot com. I do not
charge for subscriptions. You can just subscribe for free. The
only people that I charge a fee too is if
you want to comment to me, because I you're gonna
trow me. You're gonna have to put some coins in
the bucket you want to be a comment or you
gotta pay is free. I don't believe in paywalls. You
(26:22):
guys can just subscribe to my subseac on joyanread dot com.
I try to post every day some kind of thought
or thing, and I will also be announcing there and
of course on read this Read That my podcast with
Jackie Read my Sore Sister, cousin friend, and I will
be letting folks know on those two forums when my
new show, which is going to be called The joy
(26:43):
Read Show, will be launching.
Speaker 3 (26:44):
So I am launching a new show. Find out when.
Speaker 2 (26:47):
I'm giving you all the little sneak peak preview on
this podcast. But the show is going to launch very soon,
and I'm going to make the announcement on joynread dot com.
Speaker 1 (26:55):
And don't read this read that, well listen, we will
we will take it because as I mentioned, as Q mentioned,
you know you are like you know that north Star.
We've had to piece together our journey as activist and
as you know, talk radio personalities. As I mentioned, you know,
we're DJs. We're giveaway cardi B tickets and Migos tickets.
(27:19):
That's what we do, and so you know, stepping into
this space because the work is necessary. We felt the
work was necessary, especially in hip hop radios stations around
the country. Not having a blueprint is kind of scary
and it's kind of intimidating and knowing that you're there
consistently showing us things that we need to see, providing perspective,
(27:41):
giving us ways to challenge, you know, the pushback that
we receive as we travel around the country. Of course,
as we host our program and we have listeners interact.
It's been the people that tell us to keep going
because the work we do matters. You know. That's that's
us now saying that to you, because have not been
for you. There's so many times we would have been
(28:04):
more lost than we were and absolutely because of you
we were able to find our way more than once.
And we will continue to watch you, to watch you
shine and support you however we can, as Q mentioned,
So with that in mind, i'd like to say thank
you again very much for taking time to come here
(28:25):
and talk to us, to share your insight with us,
your brilliance with us, and to obviously to make an
announcement on your forthcoming show and how people can stay
in touch with you and hopefully become fans of you
if they haven't been before in the same way that
we are so once again. Today's guest is American political commentator,
best selling author and television host Joy and Read.
Speaker 3 (28:47):
Ramsey is and cute.
Speaker 2 (28:48):
Thank you all very much. Look as an old hip hoophead.
First of all, I will take those CARDI B tickets if.
Speaker 1 (28:52):
You want to.
Speaker 3 (28:56):
And look, I'm look.
Speaker 2 (28:58):
My theme song when I graduated from Harvard me and
my best friend shots you unfortunately pass Since then, our
theme song was can I Kick It?
Speaker 3 (29:06):
Yes you can?
Speaker 1 (29:07):
Yes you can?
Speaker 3 (29:08):
You can tip in a trial called quest. I'm a
og hip hop fans.
Speaker 2 (29:11):
I appreciate Joa and it's always great to be with
fellow hip hop fans.
Speaker 3 (29:13):
I appreciate.
Speaker 1 (29:17):
This has been a production of the Black Information Network.
Today's show is produced by Chris Thompson. Have some thoughts
you'd like to share, use the red microphone talkback feature
on the iHeartRadio app. While you're there, be sure to
hit subscribe and download all of our episodes. I'm your
host ramses Jah on all social media. I am q
Ward on all social media as well, and join us
(29:38):
tomorrow as we share our news with our voice from
our perspective right here on the Black Information Network Daily
podcast
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