July 1, 2025 • 29 mins
On Part 2 of today's podcast, Host Ramses Ja and Q Ward discuss the recent comments made by rapper Nelly about Former Vice President Kamala Harris
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Still broadcasting from the Civic Ciphers studios. This is the
QR code where we share perspective, seek understanding, and shape outcomes.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
He is your illustrious host q Ward.
Speaker 3 (00:11):
Okay, so he has rammed his job, but he'd be
lying because he's the illustrious one.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
God just work here, and we want you to stick
around because we have an interesting conversation and store a
couple of them.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
In fact, obviously qwords clap back. We've been looking forward
to that all show long.
Speaker 1 (00:29):
But we are going to have a conversation about happiness
and what it means and whether or not money can
affect happiness. This is an age old discussion and we're
going to examine it in twenty twenty five terms with
the latest science and data to.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
Back that up.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
And we're also going to be talking about Nelly, who
seemingly took an aim at Kamala Harris's white husband because
he's been receiving backlash having performed at Donald Trump's inauguration.
So a lot to stick around for. As I mentioned,
it is now time for a q ward to talk
to us. So Q talk to me about poor people's
(01:06):
unwavering support of capitalism.
Speaker 3 (01:10):
Yeah, I mean, it's a really interesting topic to broach.
You know, why working class people continue to vote for
and support policies that keep them working class or now
because the wage gap has grown, keeps them poor, and
just kind of I want to expose this idea of
(01:30):
how everyone has a shot to win in the capitalist system,
and what maybe you want to talk about it is,
you know, you and I kind of see this rhetoric everywhere.
You know, a lot of people want to like maintain
this veneer of humanity and morality and you know, come
across as decent people. So they frame their support of
someone like our current president, even in the face of
(01:52):
all that he's said, all of he's done, all that
he continues to do, they want to wrap it in
some form of fiscal responsibility and want to you know,
make us feel like they're making the smart economic choice,
even though so many of them are actually harmed personally
financially by the very policies that they defend, you know,
(02:14):
with exhaustion and just kind of want to wake people up.
It's not an accident that it works out that way.
It's by design. So the question you may be asking
is why do poor people and a lot of these
red states, especially vote to stay poor. Why do they
aggressively defend the profits of billionaires while stagnating their own wages.
(02:41):
They oppose unions that would raise their pay, and they
cheer on tax cuts for billionaires. It couldn't because they
still believe it's going to trickle down. Rams.
Speaker 1 (02:52):
This is it?
Speaker 3 (02:52):
Do you think I know that.
Speaker 1 (02:54):
Was well sold to you know, poor folks once upon
a time, but I couldn't tell you.
Speaker 3 (03:00):
So it's interesting that you say well sold because my
exact thought is that they were sold this myth and
bought into it, and it's like a commitment. It's like
they signed a contract that they can't break. So this
idea like if you work hard enough, you too can
be Jeff Bezos, and that's just impossible. Like this idea
(03:22):
that success is purely a personal meritocracy, merit based thing.
If you work really hard for a really long time,
you and your family will be successful and rich, when
none of the data supports that.
Speaker 4 (03:35):
Know.
Speaker 3 (03:35):
So we often talk about the Marketing Department of the
United States and the American dream being the best sold
product in the history of planet Earth. But they've kind
of turned that dream into a weapon now, right, because
if you believe that you alone are responsible for your success,
then anyone who's not successful is just lazy. Wow.
Speaker 2 (03:55):
Yeah, you're right.
Speaker 3 (03:56):
Unions are for free loaders, you know, taxes to the richest, theft,
and that that asking for help somehow makes you weak
because they frame socialism as this horrible enemy of the people,
because helping each other would make us weak. I'm guessing
you know this is how you keep working people fighting
against each other to uphold the system that exploits and
(04:19):
oppresses them kind of into perpetuity. Sure, sure so in
your in your opinion ram this and I know this
is a que word clad back, but I really need
your insight. Who benefits when workers reject collective power and
collective bargaining?
Speaker 2 (04:36):
Uh, wealthy people?
Speaker 1 (04:38):
You know, I guess while we're here, one of the
things that I you know, I guess if you boil
it all the way down, a government has many functions,
But if you boil it all the way down, a
government's function is to help the people in a society,
in an organized society, to help the people to live
better lives. And uh, with the philosophy of you know,
(05:06):
call it Reaganomics. In its inception and now you know,
it's being exacerbated by elements of the Big Beautiful Bill
and so forth. It's more of the same type of
fiscal conservative thinking.
Speaker 2 (05:20):
You know.
Speaker 1 (05:21):
My feeling is that the most vulnerable elements, the most
vulnerable places in society is where they're they're kind of
pulling up the pulling the purse strings, and they're not
helping those people. And I'm like, well, what's the point
of a government? So I don't know if I have
a good answer for that, because this is kind of
part of the reason why we do these programs is
(05:42):
because our natural curiosity of why why do people end
up doing this? You know, like, if if you're about yourself,
be about yourself. If you're about you know, helping people,
then be about helping people. But for people to get
into position as though they're going to help people and
help themselves or people that are just like them exclusively
(06:04):
and not all of us, it feels a little limited.
So sorry, I was wow, but I don't know a
good answer.
Speaker 3 (06:10):
Yeah. So, you know, billionaires, corporations and millionaire shareholders manipulate
the system and it's really turned into a scam. I
can do that marketing for exploitation, anti union propaganda where
workers fight against and work against organizing. So this tax
cut thing has been made personal. You know, people that
(06:30):
make fifty thousand dollars a year going out of their
way to support tax cuts for people who are already billionaires. Meantime,
the school their kids attend is closing, you know, the
classrooms don't have up to date books. The medicare and
care that their parents and babies are using is no
longer available, and they're still looking around and waiting for
it to trickle down.
Speaker 2 (06:51):
And we just that's not going to happen.
Speaker 3 (06:53):
So the real truth, man, is that freedom is not
begging a billionaire for a raise when you're working your
life away, and independence isn't scraping by while shareholders and
billionaires record record profits. The power to negotiate your worth
and stand with other workers and demand dignity is what
we should all want. They want you to fight for
their wealth instead of your own well being, and then
(07:15):
you vote to stay poor, rams and I decide that's
something that we're not going to do. We'd like to
hope that you won't do that either.
Speaker 2 (07:25):
Well, I.
Speaker 1 (07:31):
Can appreciate the frustration, and I recognize that people are people,
and they're just as susceptible we, I should say, all
of us are susceptible to propaganda, and kind of knowing
what it is and where it is and how to
push back against it and to offer a separate narrative
is kind of why we exist in this space. So
(07:55):
I said it before, I'll say it again, man, I
couldn't have a better partner. Thank you for your thought.
Now that just so happens to lead us to a
conversation about happiness, because you know you said something, and
(08:18):
I know what you meant to say. But I'll add
a slight correction there. You said it's impossible to become
Jeff Bezos. We'll say, statistically speaking, it's statistically it's a
statistical impossibility. But it's not an outright impossibility, right. It
(08:42):
is exceptionally unlikely, is it is exceptionally improbable.
Speaker 2 (08:48):
It's like.
Speaker 1 (08:50):
Better chance of hitting the lottery than getting Jeff Bezos rich. Indeed,
there might be three people in the world who are
Jeff Bezos rich. And it's not a matter of your
own merits in those instances. It's really a matter of
a fortunate set of circumstances. Coupled with you trying hard
(09:11):
and you know, so forth. I think that, you know,
some of the greatest philosophers that you know, I've ever
heard speak have often echoed the sentiment that luck is
when preparedness meets opportunity or something like that. Effectually, that's
how it's been communicated. I see you nodding, so I'm
(09:31):
sure you've heard something similar before, but I'd go along
with that. That's luck, right, So maybe luck is not
the right word to use in this instance, but opportunity
can work as a nice substitution for the word luck.
Preparedness meets opportunity, there's your luck, right. And for many people,
(09:52):
they absolutely will never ever have the right set of
opportunities in a row more or less to achieve that
level of wealth. And yet and still people vote as
though that is more likely for them than for other people,
because they have they consider themselves to be ambitious. They
(10:15):
who knows, who knows, And you know, I'd imagine there's
a significant amount of people in the in the country
who have not yet given up on the idea that
at some point in their future they will be a
multimillionaire or a billionaire. Right, So, some people that's just
because it's been sold to them as not necessarily a possibility,
(10:38):
but perhaps a probability, right. I think that we could
all agree on the word possibility, But the way it's
marketed is is almost like, if you're ambitious, the American
dream will find its way to you, as though it's
a probably it's probable, right, but you know, semantics, it's
it's probably harder for folks to give that up. So
(11:00):
perhaps that's why, you know, we see a lot of
people who are fiscally conservative that prefer a smaller government
that doesn't help the people in the way that a
government perhaps should and protect the people and protect the
health of the people and the food security of the people,
and you know, and other factors. Ignoring data that says
(11:20):
that more police doesn't reduce crime, Ignoring data that says
head start programs actually does reduce crime, Ignoring data that says,
you know, employment opportunities and better public transportation reduces crime.
Ignoring all of that to just put more police in
black and brown neighborhoods. You know, those decisions can only
(11:44):
exist when the electorate feel as though, you know, this
is they ultimately will become wealthy, and this is the
system that needs to be in place in order to
protect them, who will ultimately be the haves from the
rest of us have nots right, So it's capitalism forces
(12:07):
people to pursue money. And you know, the question whether
or not money buys happiness is an age old question.
So I know that's a long roundabout way to getting
to today's topic, but I'll share from Forbes. Two renowned economists,
the late Daniel Cainman, a winner of the Nobel Prize
in Economics, and University of Pennsylvania professor Matthew Killingsworth decided
(12:30):
to put this adage to the test, the adage that
money doesn't buy happiness. Separately, Cainman and Killingsworth published two
different papers with conflicting results about the relationship between money
and happiness. In Cainman's twenty ten study, he and his
colleague fellow Nobel Prize winner Angus Deaton found that happiness
increases with income up to seventy five thousand dollars, after
(12:51):
which it plateaus. Now that's seventy five thousand dollars in
twenty ten money, I remember this study. Killingsworth's twenty twenty
one study, on the other hand, found that happiness increased
alongside income with no limit. Now bear in mind the
culture shifted. By twenty twenty one, we had already kind
of been through a Donald Trump presidency, and all that nears,
COVID and so forth.
Speaker 2 (13:13):
I'll keep reading.
Speaker 1 (13:14):
In twenty twenty three, the two experts combined forces to
finally answer, is there a limit to how much money
can bring you happiness? It turns out for most people
there isn't. The acclaimed economist study published in the Journal
of PNAS found that how many sorry how happy money
makes you depends on your overall emotional wellbeing.
Speaker 2 (13:34):
This I knew. I remember reading about this in college,
all right.
Speaker 1 (13:37):
Drawing upon more than four hundred and fifty thousand responses
to the Gallop HealthWays well Being Index, a daily survey
of one thousand u US residents conducted by the Gallup
Organization from two thousand and eight to two thousand and nine,
researchers found that correlations between money and happiness were split
into three groups based on well being least happy, middle
(13:58):
range happy, and most happy. They found that for the
least happy group, happiness rose with income until about one
hundred thousand dollars. Then plateaued. For those in the middle
range of emotional wellbeing, happiness continued increasing linearly with income
with no limit, and for the happiest group, happiness rose
and then actually accelerated once they were passed one hundred
(14:18):
thousand dollars quote. In simplest terms, this suggests that for
most people, larger incomes are associated with greater happiness, said
Matthew Killingsworth, a senior fellow at Penn's Wharton's School and
lead paper author in the press release quote. The exception
is people who are financially well off but unhappy. He added,
For instance, if you're a rich and miserable person, more
(14:38):
money won't help. For everyone else, more money was associated
with higher happiness to somewhat varying degrees. So two different
schools of thought here coming together in this ultimately saying
that more money does lead to more happiness. But I
think the first study think, I think that gave some
insight into the fact that a plateau can exist. In
(14:59):
the second one says that it doesn't. It doesn't exist
according to this data. So this is kind of how
i'd imagine, you know, human beings will consume it. Either
you get to a certain point after which money doesn't
have the same meaning. And then some people where the
paper chase is kind of the point of it. So
(15:20):
the money in and of itself, even though it's not
by itself useful, only what it can buy is useful.
But the papers, you can't eat them.
Speaker 2 (15:28):
You can't. You can set a fire to them and
keep yourself warm for a little bit. But you know
what I mean.
Speaker 1 (15:32):
But having more of those papers or zeros in your account,
for some people, that makes them happy, and that's their
their version of happiness.
Speaker 2 (15:39):
So your thoughts.
Speaker 3 (15:42):
The semantic that you started the segment with, you know,
three people in the world having Jeff Bezos is money
means it's impossible.
Speaker 2 (15:50):
I don't even want to that's one.
Speaker 3 (15:52):
In three billion will get to that level, which means
ten times more likely to win the power Ball and
then mega millions like the whole Oh yeah, then to
end up Jeff Bezos rich. So I didn't want us
to get stuck on that semantic. Having money is not everything.
Not having it is. So for poor people, almost everything
(16:18):
that makes you sad is because you don't have any money.
So the correlation between money and happiness is a one
to one direct hit for everyone that's poor. Sure, and
I think part of what you read states that once
you get to a certain point that happiness can plateau
once you realize that there are other things in life
(16:38):
to worry about. But for most of us know everything
could be solved by having more money. I did the
actual math for my life. If I made three hundred
and fifty thousand dollars a year, I would never need
to make more than that to be fine forever and
to make sure that everyone that I love would be
fine as well. Course, if you get to a point
(17:01):
where you can continually perpetually make more money your over year,
as long as you're not creating new demons and new
problems and finding new vices, how your happiness could exponentially
grow and improve as your lifestyle and level of comfort
and the things that you can use your money for
improve as well. Like you and I during one of
(17:21):
the hardest parts of my life, you and I had
just also dove face first into helping people, feeding the homeless,
visiting kids in the hospital, you know, getting families off
the street, helping homeless mothers get off of drugs and
find a job, and like that stuff made me feel
incredible so I think about if you and I had
(17:45):
Zuckerberg Basos Musk money, how happy it would be because
everything we do would be to help people that don't
have it. We would be unlimited happy if we're using
our money, our resource, and our influences that way.
Speaker 1 (17:59):
You know, at he read a different study because I
was consumed by happiness studies once upon a time that
actually said that human beings are in their happiest element
when they're providing some sort of service or comfort to
other human beings. That is kind of the peak level
of happiness for us. So it's important to what you
said is important to add to that conversation. And the
(18:21):
last thing I'll add is a line from push a
T where he said, you know, ask Steve Jobs. Wealth
came by health, and I think that that kind of
provides some perspective.
Speaker 5 (18:33):
Mark Morio here, President and CEO of the National Urban League.
And on Thursday, July seventeenth, I'll be live in Cleveland
at a national conference with Tony Coles, president of the
Black Information Network. It's called Black America Speaks, and it's
exactly what it sounds like. We'll tackle pressing issues economic inequality,
health disparities, vot suppression and this manly of our democratic institutions.
Speaker 2 (18:56):
You must be a part of this conversation.
Speaker 5 (18:58):
Join us in Cleveland to Redger to go to NUF
conference dot.
Speaker 2 (19:03):
Hey, what's up?
Speaker 4 (19:04):
This is Ramsy's job and I am q Ward and
we're inviting you to subscribe to Civic Cipher, our weekly
social justice podcast right here in the app. We pride
ourselves on creating a show that busters allyship empathy and understanding,
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and empowering historically marginalized communities. The African proverb breeds, if
(19:25):
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asking you to search for and subscribe to Civic Cipher.
Speaker 1 (19:31):
That's CIVI c cip h e R right here in
the app. Now, let's talk about Nelly again. We'll get
right into it. This from the Black Information Network. Rapper
Nelly seemingly took aim at former Vice President Kamala Harris
and her white husband, Doug m Off while defending his
decision to perform at President Donald Trump's inauguration. During a
(19:52):
recent interview, Nelly addressed backlash over his inauguration performance. The
rapper claimed he's not pro Donald Trump, but he decided
to accept the gig out of respect for the office.
Nelly also argued that he did an event with Harris
before she became the Democratic candidate for the twenty twenty
four presidential election, but nobody ever bought it up. As
social media users reacted to his comments, Nelly took to
(20:14):
Instagram to double down on his defense. Nelly shot back
as his critics, saying that he and Snoop Dogg, who
also faced backlash for performing at Trump's inauguration, quote, do
more in the community and have been doing for over
twenty plus years against any of you that are just
on here talking trash unquote. He goes on to say,
from the black families that we employed, to the black
(20:36):
children that we help every day and all year through
our nonprofits, whether we're sending kids to schools on scholarships
to HBCUs or helping young black boys in La Gang
Central with his junior football programs, which many players have
went on to the NFL and lived their dreams, Nelly
wrote under a post on the Shade Rooms Instagram page.
He added that he and Snoop should be viewed as
(20:58):
inspiring black men who married beauty for black women with
black children and a parent. Jab at Harris and what
he called her white husband quote, some of y'all have
a problem with us because the quote prosecutor who has
probably locked up more black men than we've helped women
of color with the white husband and white kids, did
not win the election, he wrote. The rapper reiterated that
(21:22):
he didn't campaign for either Trump or Harris, but he
performed at the inauguration out of respect and love for
the country. Quote it's my respect for the office, meaning
any president that calls upon Nelly, it would be an honor.
Nothing to do with money, Nelly said, goes on to say,
nothing to do with race. But if you want to
make it about race, then let's go. I find it
very interesting.
Speaker 2 (21:41):
All right.
Speaker 3 (21:42):
So you first, so let's pretend I don't support Donald
Trump and his beliefs, that I'm not a maga person,
that I don't agree with his politics.
Speaker 2 (21:56):
I'm just respecting office.
Speaker 3 (21:58):
However, everything I say after that statement would be magga
talking points about how she locked up these people that
she didn't, how her husband is white, how I've given
all this money. Right, So we're back to capitalism, we're
back to I can spend enough money for black stuff
that's supporting someone that is anti black, anti immigrant, anti
poor people, anti Christian, anti Jesus, anti love, anti kindness,
(22:20):
pro hate, pro divisive, pro bully tactics. Because I did
a lot of I spent a lot of money. It
all ties back to the bag. It all ties back
to look how much money I've made and how much
money I've spent. If you ask the same people, hey,
would you have attended the inauguration or a party supporting
(22:43):
Adolf Hitler if he was the president, And without hesitation,
they would say no, because history has fully, comprehensively and
holistically framed Adolf Hitler as an evil person who did
evil things to people. So people without hesitation will say
absolutely not. While we were watching someone do very very
similar things every day, because I shouted them out in
(23:07):
one of my songs once upon a time, and because
Snoop did it too. Hey, you know, we got black wives,
we got black kids, we help black people, We spent
money with black people.
Speaker 2 (23:16):
So the fact that.
Speaker 3 (23:17):
We're performing for and smiling with, and taking pictures with
and putting our arms around this person who's anti everything,
we claim to care about. Don't forget the money and
we spent. It's just like taking a check from Target.
It's just the endorsement from somebody who's anti everyone that
you claim to be a part of and that you
(23:37):
claim to care about. You don't want to be held
a count. So instead of just saying my bad, y'all,
I messed up, you're going to tell us all the
reasons why your decision was just it's not about money,
but you didn't do it for free. You're not about Trump.
But let me tell you all the things that are
wrong with Kamala Harris. So which one is it? Which
position is real?
Speaker 2 (23:55):
Yeah, yeah, I see what you're saying.
Speaker 3 (23:57):
So miss me with all of it, was kind of
over it and had moved past it. But now you're
doubling down and you start to rebuttal with maga right
wing talking points. She's not responsible for locking up more
people than you've helped, not even close, and that's been
debunked over a year ago. So coming right back to
(24:17):
that point, because you got it from somebody that you
were rubbing shoulders with at your trump ball, it's just
really really frustrating. Man. Don't point at us like we're
wrong for trying to hold you accountable for supposedly representing us, because,
whether you want to believe it or not, all the
millions you have and the lifestyle that you've been able
(24:37):
to maintain is because people like us supported you. People
like us came to those shows, bought those CITs, bought
those tickets, stream those albums, and to let everybody else
down because it made fiscal sense for you. Here, be
back to that fiscal back to that money, back to
this capitalism. Everyone who ends up on that side, who
gets held to account, well, some way, somehow, find a
(24:59):
way to frame it around, well, this is what he
can do for us financially that they don't say it
out right, they'll blackpedal like it has nothing to do
with that, and then spend months, minutes, days, hours giving
you maga talking points to support the decision that they
make while claiming to not be subscribed to that way
of thinking at all.
Speaker 2 (25:18):
So you know how.
Speaker 1 (25:24):
We recently did an episode where we were talking about
we were taking people into the minds of like black conservatives.
Right where black conservatives they have the shield of blackness
protecting them from, or so they think, protecting them from
(25:45):
being called white supremacist, being called racist, being or anti black.
Speaker 2 (25:49):
World because they're black.
Speaker 1 (25:50):
Right, so they'll say things like, listen, man, my wife's black,
my kids are black. I'm just a conservative. I have
a conservative mindset. Right.
Speaker 2 (25:58):
Most of these guys their wives are not black.
Speaker 1 (25:59):
But we're the ones that do have black lives. And
you know, we come through the data, and you know,
black conservatives are kind of a special bunch.
Speaker 2 (26:14):
They're often people who.
Speaker 1 (26:20):
Found a crack in the system and were able to
exploit it, or they were lucky, you know, I know
we're not using the word luck. So they were prepared
when the opportunity found its way to them, right. And
what you and I've been pushing for was for that
opportunity to find its way to all people equitably, as
(26:41):
opposed to a couple of sprinkles in this neighborhood. But
most of the opportunity finds its way over into these
other neighborhoods.
Speaker 2 (26:47):
Right.
Speaker 1 (26:49):
So these people that got their hands on a little
sprinkle of opportunity and they were of course prepared to
take advantage of and exploit the opportunity, are more likely
to grow into these black conservatives, right, And so they
grow up and they have these rags to riches stories
and then they can say things like, well, listen, I
(27:11):
made it. You can make it too. Just do what
I did, right. You know, I struggled. I came from
you know, poor whatever, you know, and I overcame obstacles
and you know, this is how you're letting your blackness
hold you back. I didn't let my blackness hold me back.
Speaker 3 (27:28):
Right.
Speaker 1 (27:29):
So Nelly sounds like those guys right with his talking points,
which aren't the same, but they're very similar in texture.
And you know, I want to reiterate, you know, some
of the things that I think really matter here. Uh,
when Nellie's talking about what he's done for black people.
(27:50):
It doesn't mean that Nelly hates black people, nothing like that.
It's just it's possible for a person, I think, to
like mentally distance them from their people because they now
live in a different reality.
Speaker 2 (28:08):
Right.
Speaker 1 (28:10):
So they look at black people perhaps like charity cases,
as opposed to a group of people that they belong
to that have been subjected to systemic oppression and subjugation.
And so because they think of it as the individual
and not a system, they're happy to help individuals. And
(28:32):
when they look at people like Donald Trump and performing
at the inauguration. They can say things like, Okay, race
does not factor into this, because race is not as
big of a deal as all you black people are
making it out to be. And it's those people that
provide an even stronger shield for bonafide white supremacists to
do their white supremacist activities, because then they can then
(28:55):
point to Nelly and Snoop and say, well, look, these
guys are on board. Those are your heroes, and then
we're kind of back in the same cycle. So anyway,
some food for thought there, and they really got nothing else.
So with that in mind, we'll leave it right here.
That's going to do it for us here at the
QR code. For those who don't know, today's show was produced,
as always by the one, the only, Chris Thompson. If
(29:17):
you have some thought you'd like to share, please use
the red microphone talk back feature on the iHeartRadio app,
and while you're there, be sure to hit subscribe and
download all of our episodes.
Speaker 2 (29:25):
Also, be sure to check us out on all social media.
You can find us at Civic Cipher. We'd love for
you to subscribe.
Speaker 1 (29:30):
To us on YouTube, but any social media platform will do.
I've been your host and you can find me on
all social media at rams's Jack.
Speaker 2 (29:39):
I am q Ward on all social media as.
Speaker 1 (29:41):
Well, and be sure to check us out next time
right here as we share our news with our voice
from our perspective right here on the QR code.
Speaker 2 (29:50):
And until then, y'all peace, peace,
Still broadcasting from the Civic Ciphers studios. This is the
QR code where we share perspective, seek understanding, and shape outcomes.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
He is your illustrious host q Ward.
Speaker 3 (00:11):
Okay, so he has rammed his job, but he'd be
lying because he's the illustrious one.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
God just work here, and we want you to stick
around because we have an interesting conversation and store a
couple of them.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
In fact, obviously qwords clap back. We've been looking forward
to that all show long.
Speaker 1 (00:29):
But we are going to have a conversation about happiness
and what it means and whether or not money can
affect happiness. This is an age old discussion and we're
going to examine it in twenty twenty five terms with
the latest science and data to.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
Back that up.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
And we're also going to be talking about Nelly, who
seemingly took an aim at Kamala Harris's white husband because
he's been receiving backlash having performed at Donald Trump's inauguration.
So a lot to stick around for. As I mentioned,
it is now time for a q ward to talk
to us. So Q talk to me about poor people's
(01:06):
unwavering support of capitalism.
Speaker 3 (01:10):
Yeah, I mean, it's a really interesting topic to broach.
You know, why working class people continue to vote for
and support policies that keep them working class or now
because the wage gap has grown, keeps them poor, and
just kind of I want to expose this idea of
(01:30):
how everyone has a shot to win in the capitalist system,
and what maybe you want to talk about it is,
you know, you and I kind of see this rhetoric everywhere.
You know, a lot of people want to like maintain
this veneer of humanity and morality and you know, come
across as decent people. So they frame their support of
someone like our current president, even in the face of
(01:52):
all that he's said, all of he's done, all that
he continues to do, they want to wrap it in
some form of fiscal responsibility and want to you know,
make us feel like they're making the smart economic choice,
even though so many of them are actually harmed personally
financially by the very policies that they defend, you know,
(02:14):
with exhaustion and just kind of want to wake people up.
It's not an accident that it works out that way.
It's by design. So the question you may be asking
is why do poor people and a lot of these
red states, especially vote to stay poor. Why do they
aggressively defend the profits of billionaires while stagnating their own wages.
(02:41):
They oppose unions that would raise their pay, and they
cheer on tax cuts for billionaires. It couldn't because they
still believe it's going to trickle down. Rams.
Speaker 1 (02:52):
This is it?
Speaker 3 (02:52):
Do you think I know that.
Speaker 1 (02:54):
Was well sold to you know, poor folks once upon
a time, but I couldn't tell you.
Speaker 3 (03:00):
So it's interesting that you say well sold because my
exact thought is that they were sold this myth and
bought into it, and it's like a commitment. It's like
they signed a contract that they can't break. So this
idea like if you work hard enough, you too can
be Jeff Bezos, and that's just impossible. Like this idea
(03:22):
that success is purely a personal meritocracy, merit based thing.
If you work really hard for a really long time,
you and your family will be successful and rich, when
none of the data supports that.
Speaker 4 (03:35):
Know.
Speaker 3 (03:35):
So we often talk about the Marketing Department of the
United States and the American dream being the best sold
product in the history of planet Earth. But they've kind
of turned that dream into a weapon now, right, because
if you believe that you alone are responsible for your success,
then anyone who's not successful is just lazy. Wow.
Speaker 2 (03:55):
Yeah, you're right.
Speaker 3 (03:56):
Unions are for free loaders, you know, taxes to the richest, theft,
and that that asking for help somehow makes you weak
because they frame socialism as this horrible enemy of the people,
because helping each other would make us weak. I'm guessing
you know this is how you keep working people fighting
against each other to uphold the system that exploits and
(04:19):
oppresses them kind of into perpetuity. Sure, sure so in
your in your opinion ram this and I know this
is a que word clad back, but I really need
your insight. Who benefits when workers reject collective power and
collective bargaining?
Speaker 2 (04:36):
Uh, wealthy people?
Speaker 1 (04:38):
You know, I guess while we're here, one of the
things that I you know, I guess if you boil
it all the way down, a government has many functions,
But if you boil it all the way down, a
government's function is to help the people in a society,
in an organized society, to help the people to live
better lives. And uh, with the philosophy of you know,
(05:06):
call it Reaganomics. In its inception and now you know,
it's being exacerbated by elements of the Big Beautiful Bill
and so forth. It's more of the same type of
fiscal conservative thinking.
Speaker 2 (05:20):
You know.
Speaker 1 (05:21):
My feeling is that the most vulnerable elements, the most
vulnerable places in society is where they're they're kind of
pulling up the pulling the purse strings, and they're not
helping those people. And I'm like, well, what's the point
of a government? So I don't know if I have
a good answer for that, because this is kind of
part of the reason why we do these programs is
(05:42):
because our natural curiosity of why why do people end
up doing this? You know, like, if if you're about yourself,
be about yourself. If you're about you know, helping people,
then be about helping people. But for people to get
into position as though they're going to help people and
help themselves or people that are just like them exclusively
(06:04):
and not all of us, it feels a little limited.
So sorry, I was wow, but I don't know a
good answer.
Speaker 3 (06:10):
Yeah. So, you know, billionaires, corporations and millionaire shareholders manipulate
the system and it's really turned into a scam. I
can do that marketing for exploitation, anti union propaganda where
workers fight against and work against organizing. So this tax
cut thing has been made personal. You know, people that
(06:30):
make fifty thousand dollars a year going out of their
way to support tax cuts for people who are already billionaires. Meantime,
the school their kids attend is closing, you know, the
classrooms don't have up to date books. The medicare and
care that their parents and babies are using is no
longer available, and they're still looking around and waiting for
it to trickle down.
Speaker 2 (06:51):
And we just that's not going to happen.
Speaker 3 (06:53):
So the real truth, man, is that freedom is not
begging a billionaire for a raise when you're working your
life away, and independence isn't scraping by while shareholders and
billionaires record record profits. The power to negotiate your worth
and stand with other workers and demand dignity is what
we should all want. They want you to fight for
their wealth instead of your own well being, and then
(07:15):
you vote to stay poor, rams and I decide that's
something that we're not going to do. We'd like to
hope that you won't do that either.
Speaker 2 (07:25):
Well, I.
Speaker 1 (07:31):
Can appreciate the frustration, and I recognize that people are people,
and they're just as susceptible we, I should say, all
of us are susceptible to propaganda, and kind of knowing
what it is and where it is and how to
push back against it and to offer a separate narrative
is kind of why we exist in this space. So
(07:55):
I said it before, I'll say it again, man, I
couldn't have a better partner. Thank you for your thought.
Now that just so happens to lead us to a
conversation about happiness, because you know you said something, and
(08:18):
I know what you meant to say. But I'll add
a slight correction there. You said it's impossible to become
Jeff Bezos. We'll say, statistically speaking, it's statistically it's a
statistical impossibility. But it's not an outright impossibility, right. It
(08:42):
is exceptionally unlikely, is it is exceptionally improbable.
Speaker 2 (08:48):
It's like.
Speaker 1 (08:50):
Better chance of hitting the lottery than getting Jeff Bezos rich. Indeed,
there might be three people in the world who are
Jeff Bezos rich. And it's not a matter of your
own merits in those instances. It's really a matter of
a fortunate set of circumstances. Coupled with you trying hard
(09:11):
and you know, so forth. I think that, you know,
some of the greatest philosophers that you know, I've ever
heard speak have often echoed the sentiment that luck is
when preparedness meets opportunity or something like that. Effectually, that's
how it's been communicated. I see you nodding, so I'm
(09:31):
sure you've heard something similar before, but I'd go along
with that. That's luck, right, So maybe luck is not
the right word to use in this instance, but opportunity
can work as a nice substitution for the word luck.
Preparedness meets opportunity, there's your luck, right. And for many people,
(09:52):
they absolutely will never ever have the right set of
opportunities in a row more or less to achieve that
level of wealth. And yet and still people vote as
though that is more likely for them than for other people,
because they have they consider themselves to be ambitious. They
(10:15):
who knows, who knows, And you know, I'd imagine there's
a significant amount of people in the in the country
who have not yet given up on the idea that
at some point in their future they will be a
multimillionaire or a billionaire. Right, So, some people that's just
because it's been sold to them as not necessarily a possibility,
(10:38):
but perhaps a probability, right. I think that we could
all agree on the word possibility, But the way it's
marketed is is almost like, if you're ambitious, the American
dream will find its way to you, as though it's
a probably it's probable, right, but you know, semantics, it's
it's probably harder for folks to give that up. So
(11:00):
perhaps that's why, you know, we see a lot of
people who are fiscally conservative that prefer a smaller government
that doesn't help the people in the way that a
government perhaps should and protect the people and protect the
health of the people and the food security of the people,
and you know, and other factors. Ignoring data that says
(11:20):
that more police doesn't reduce crime, Ignoring data that says
head start programs actually does reduce crime, Ignoring data that says,
you know, employment opportunities and better public transportation reduces crime.
Ignoring all of that to just put more police in
black and brown neighborhoods. You know, those decisions can only
(11:44):
exist when the electorate feel as though, you know, this
is they ultimately will become wealthy, and this is the
system that needs to be in place in order to
protect them, who will ultimately be the haves from the
rest of us have nots right, So it's capitalism forces
(12:07):
people to pursue money. And you know, the question whether
or not money buys happiness is an age old question.
So I know that's a long roundabout way to getting
to today's topic, but I'll share from Forbes. Two renowned economists,
the late Daniel Cainman, a winner of the Nobel Prize
in Economics, and University of Pennsylvania professor Matthew Killingsworth decided
(12:30):
to put this adage to the test, the adage that
money doesn't buy happiness. Separately, Cainman and Killingsworth published two
different papers with conflicting results about the relationship between money
and happiness. In Cainman's twenty ten study, he and his
colleague fellow Nobel Prize winner Angus Deaton found that happiness
increases with income up to seventy five thousand dollars, after
(12:51):
which it plateaus. Now that's seventy five thousand dollars in
twenty ten money, I remember this study. Killingsworth's twenty twenty
one study, on the other hand, found that happiness increased
alongside income with no limit. Now bear in mind the
culture shifted. By twenty twenty one, we had already kind
of been through a Donald Trump presidency, and all that nears,
COVID and so forth.
Speaker 2 (13:13):
I'll keep reading.
Speaker 1 (13:14):
In twenty twenty three, the two experts combined forces to
finally answer, is there a limit to how much money
can bring you happiness? It turns out for most people
there isn't. The acclaimed economist study published in the Journal
of PNAS found that how many sorry how happy money
makes you depends on your overall emotional wellbeing.
Speaker 2 (13:34):
This I knew. I remember reading about this in college,
all right.
Speaker 1 (13:37):
Drawing upon more than four hundred and fifty thousand responses
to the Gallop HealthWays well Being Index, a daily survey
of one thousand u US residents conducted by the Gallup
Organization from two thousand and eight to two thousand and nine,
researchers found that correlations between money and happiness were split
into three groups based on well being least happy, middle
(13:58):
range happy, and most happy. They found that for the
least happy group, happiness rose with income until about one
hundred thousand dollars. Then plateaued. For those in the middle
range of emotional wellbeing, happiness continued increasing linearly with income
with no limit, and for the happiest group, happiness rose
and then actually accelerated once they were passed one hundred
(14:18):
thousand dollars quote. In simplest terms, this suggests that for
most people, larger incomes are associated with greater happiness, said
Matthew Killingsworth, a senior fellow at Penn's Wharton's School and
lead paper author in the press release quote. The exception
is people who are financially well off but unhappy. He added,
For instance, if you're a rich and miserable person, more
(14:38):
money won't help. For everyone else, more money was associated
with higher happiness to somewhat varying degrees. So two different
schools of thought here coming together in this ultimately saying
that more money does lead to more happiness. But I
think the first study think, I think that gave some
insight into the fact that a plateau can exist. In
(14:59):
the second one says that it doesn't. It doesn't exist
according to this data. So this is kind of how
i'd imagine, you know, human beings will consume it. Either
you get to a certain point after which money doesn't
have the same meaning. And then some people where the
paper chase is kind of the point of it. So
(15:20):
the money in and of itself, even though it's not
by itself useful, only what it can buy is useful.
But the papers, you can't eat them.
Speaker 2 (15:28):
You can't. You can set a fire to them and
keep yourself warm for a little bit. But you know
what I mean.
Speaker 1 (15:32):
But having more of those papers or zeros in your account,
for some people, that makes them happy, and that's their
their version of happiness.
Speaker 2 (15:39):
So your thoughts.
Speaker 3 (15:42):
The semantic that you started the segment with, you know,
three people in the world having Jeff Bezos is money
means it's impossible.
Speaker 2 (15:50):
I don't even want to that's one.
Speaker 3 (15:52):
In three billion will get to that level, which means
ten times more likely to win the power Ball and
then mega millions like the whole Oh yeah, then to
end up Jeff Bezos rich. So I didn't want us
to get stuck on that semantic. Having money is not everything.
Not having it is. So for poor people, almost everything
(16:18):
that makes you sad is because you don't have any money.
So the correlation between money and happiness is a one
to one direct hit for everyone that's poor. Sure, and
I think part of what you read states that once
you get to a certain point that happiness can plateau
once you realize that there are other things in life
(16:38):
to worry about. But for most of us know everything
could be solved by having more money. I did the
actual math for my life. If I made three hundred
and fifty thousand dollars a year, I would never need
to make more than that to be fine forever and
to make sure that everyone that I love would be
fine as well. Course, if you get to a point
(17:01):
where you can continually perpetually make more money your over year,
as long as you're not creating new demons and new
problems and finding new vices, how your happiness could exponentially
grow and improve as your lifestyle and level of comfort
and the things that you can use your money for
improve as well. Like you and I during one of
(17:21):
the hardest parts of my life, you and I had
just also dove face first into helping people, feeding the homeless,
visiting kids in the hospital, you know, getting families off
the street, helping homeless mothers get off of drugs and
find a job, and like that stuff made me feel
incredible so I think about if you and I had
(17:45):
Zuckerberg Basos Musk money, how happy it would be because
everything we do would be to help people that don't
have it. We would be unlimited happy if we're using
our money, our resource, and our influences that way.
Speaker 1 (17:59):
You know, at he read a different study because I
was consumed by happiness studies once upon a time that
actually said that human beings are in their happiest element
when they're providing some sort of service or comfort to
other human beings. That is kind of the peak level
of happiness for us. So it's important to what you
said is important to add to that conversation. And the
(18:21):
last thing I'll add is a line from push a
T where he said, you know, ask Steve Jobs. Wealth
came by health, and I think that that kind of
provides some perspective.
Speaker 5 (18:33):
Mark Morio here, President and CEO of the National Urban League.
And on Thursday, July seventeenth, I'll be live in Cleveland
at a national conference with Tony Coles, president of the
Black Information Network. It's called Black America Speaks, and it's
exactly what it sounds like. We'll tackle pressing issues economic inequality,
health disparities, vot suppression and this manly of our democratic institutions.
Speaker 2 (18:56):
You must be a part of this conversation.
Speaker 5 (18:58):
Join us in Cleveland to Redger to go to NUF
conference dot.
Speaker 2 (19:03):
Hey, what's up?
Speaker 4 (19:04):
This is Ramsy's job and I am q Ward and
we're inviting you to subscribe to Civic Cipher, our weekly
social justice podcast right here in the app. We pride
ourselves on creating a show that busters allyship empathy and understanding,
all the while conducting journalistically credible research featuring influential, noteworthy guests,
and empowering historically marginalized communities. The African proverb breeds, if
(19:25):
you want to go far, go together. So we are
asking you to search for and subscribe to Civic Cipher.
Speaker 1 (19:31):
That's CIVI c cip h e R right here in
the app. Now, let's talk about Nelly again. We'll get
right into it. This from the Black Information Network. Rapper
Nelly seemingly took aim at former Vice President Kamala Harris
and her white husband, Doug m Off while defending his
decision to perform at President Donald Trump's inauguration. During a
(19:52):
recent interview, Nelly addressed backlash over his inauguration performance. The
rapper claimed he's not pro Donald Trump, but he decided
to accept the gig out of respect for the office.
Nelly also argued that he did an event with Harris
before she became the Democratic candidate for the twenty twenty
four presidential election, but nobody ever bought it up. As
social media users reacted to his comments, Nelly took to
(20:14):
Instagram to double down on his defense. Nelly shot back
as his critics, saying that he and Snoop Dogg, who
also faced backlash for performing at Trump's inauguration, quote, do
more in the community and have been doing for over
twenty plus years against any of you that are just
on here talking trash unquote. He goes on to say,
from the black families that we employed, to the black
(20:36):
children that we help every day and all year through
our nonprofits, whether we're sending kids to schools on scholarships
to HBCUs or helping young black boys in La Gang
Central with his junior football programs, which many players have
went on to the NFL and lived their dreams, Nelly
wrote under a post on the Shade Rooms Instagram page.
He added that he and Snoop should be viewed as
(20:58):
inspiring black men who married beauty for black women with
black children and a parent. Jab at Harris and what
he called her white husband quote, some of y'all have
a problem with us because the quote prosecutor who has
probably locked up more black men than we've helped women
of color with the white husband and white kids, did
not win the election, he wrote. The rapper reiterated that
(21:22):
he didn't campaign for either Trump or Harris, but he
performed at the inauguration out of respect and love for
the country. Quote it's my respect for the office, meaning
any president that calls upon Nelly, it would be an honor.
Nothing to do with money, Nelly said, goes on to say,
nothing to do with race. But if you want to
make it about race, then let's go. I find it
very interesting.
Speaker 2 (21:41):
All right.
Speaker 3 (21:42):
So you first, so let's pretend I don't support Donald
Trump and his beliefs, that I'm not a maga person,
that I don't agree with his politics.
Speaker 2 (21:56):
I'm just respecting office.
Speaker 3 (21:58):
However, everything I say after that statement would be magga
talking points about how she locked up these people that
she didn't, how her husband is white, how I've given
all this money. Right, So we're back to capitalism, we're
back to I can spend enough money for black stuff
that's supporting someone that is anti black, anti immigrant, anti
poor people, anti Christian, anti Jesus, anti love, anti kindness,
(22:20):
pro hate, pro divisive, pro bully tactics. Because I did
a lot of I spent a lot of money. It
all ties back to the bag. It all ties back
to look how much money I've made and how much
money I've spent. If you ask the same people, hey,
would you have attended the inauguration or a party supporting
(22:43):
Adolf Hitler if he was the president, And without hesitation,
they would say no, because history has fully, comprehensively and
holistically framed Adolf Hitler as an evil person who did
evil things to people. So people without hesitation will say
absolutely not. While we were watching someone do very very
similar things every day, because I shouted them out in
(23:07):
one of my songs once upon a time, and because
Snoop did it too. Hey, you know, we got black wives,
we got black kids, we help black people, We spent
money with black people.
Speaker 2 (23:16):
So the fact that.
Speaker 3 (23:17):
We're performing for and smiling with, and taking pictures with
and putting our arms around this person who's anti everything,
we claim to care about. Don't forget the money and
we spent. It's just like taking a check from Target.
It's just the endorsement from somebody who's anti everyone that
you claim to be a part of and that you
(23:37):
claim to care about. You don't want to be held
a count. So instead of just saying my bad, y'all,
I messed up, you're going to tell us all the
reasons why your decision was just it's not about money,
but you didn't do it for free. You're not about Trump.
But let me tell you all the things that are
wrong with Kamala Harris. So which one is it? Which
position is real?
Speaker 2 (23:55):
Yeah, yeah, I see what you're saying.
Speaker 3 (23:57):
So miss me with all of it, was kind of
over it and had moved past it. But now you're
doubling down and you start to rebuttal with maga right
wing talking points. She's not responsible for locking up more
people than you've helped, not even close, and that's been
debunked over a year ago. So coming right back to
(24:17):
that point, because you got it from somebody that you
were rubbing shoulders with at your trump ball, it's just
really really frustrating. Man. Don't point at us like we're
wrong for trying to hold you accountable for supposedly representing us, because,
whether you want to believe it or not, all the
millions you have and the lifestyle that you've been able
(24:37):
to maintain is because people like us supported you. People
like us came to those shows, bought those CITs, bought
those tickets, stream those albums, and to let everybody else
down because it made fiscal sense for you. Here, be
back to that fiscal back to that money, back to
this capitalism. Everyone who ends up on that side, who
gets held to account, well, some way, somehow, find a
(24:59):
way to frame it around, well, this is what he
can do for us financially that they don't say it
out right, they'll blackpedal like it has nothing to do
with that, and then spend months, minutes, days, hours giving
you maga talking points to support the decision that they
make while claiming to not be subscribed to that way
of thinking at all.
Speaker 2 (25:18):
So you know how.
Speaker 1 (25:24):
We recently did an episode where we were talking about
we were taking people into the minds of like black conservatives.
Right where black conservatives they have the shield of blackness
protecting them from, or so they think, protecting them from
(25:45):
being called white supremacist, being called racist, being or anti black.
Speaker 2 (25:49):
World because they're black.
Speaker 1 (25:50):
Right, so they'll say things like, listen, man, my wife's black,
my kids are black. I'm just a conservative. I have
a conservative mindset. Right.
Speaker 2 (25:58):
Most of these guys their wives are not black.
Speaker 1 (25:59):
But we're the ones that do have black lives. And
you know, we come through the data, and you know,
black conservatives are kind of a special bunch.
Speaker 2 (26:14):
They're often people who.
Speaker 1 (26:20):
Found a crack in the system and were able to
exploit it, or they were lucky, you know, I know
we're not using the word luck. So they were prepared
when the opportunity found its way to them, right. And
what you and I've been pushing for was for that
opportunity to find its way to all people equitably, as
(26:41):
opposed to a couple of sprinkles in this neighborhood. But
most of the opportunity finds its way over into these
other neighborhoods.
Speaker 2 (26:47):
Right.
Speaker 1 (26:49):
So these people that got their hands on a little
sprinkle of opportunity and they were of course prepared to
take advantage of and exploit the opportunity, are more likely
to grow into these black conservatives, right, And so they
grow up and they have these rags to riches stories
and then they can say things like, well, listen, I
(27:11):
made it. You can make it too. Just do what
I did, right. You know, I struggled. I came from
you know, poor whatever, you know, and I overcame obstacles
and you know, this is how you're letting your blackness
hold you back. I didn't let my blackness hold me back.
Speaker 3 (27:28):
Right.
Speaker 1 (27:29):
So Nelly sounds like those guys right with his talking points,
which aren't the same, but they're very similar in texture.
And you know, I want to reiterate, you know, some
of the things that I think really matter here. Uh,
when Nellie's talking about what he's done for black people.
(27:50):
It doesn't mean that Nelly hates black people, nothing like that.
It's just it's possible for a person, I think, to
like mentally distance them from their people because they now
live in a different reality.
Speaker 2 (28:08):
Right.
Speaker 1 (28:10):
So they look at black people perhaps like charity cases,
as opposed to a group of people that they belong
to that have been subjected to systemic oppression and subjugation.
And so because they think of it as the individual
and not a system, they're happy to help individuals. And
(28:32):
when they look at people like Donald Trump and performing
at the inauguration. They can say things like, Okay, race
does not factor into this, because race is not as
big of a deal as all you black people are
making it out to be. And it's those people that
provide an even stronger shield for bonafide white supremacists to
do their white supremacist activities, because then they can then
(28:55):
point to Nelly and Snoop and say, well, look, these
guys are on board. Those are your heroes, and then
we're kind of back in the same cycle. So anyway,
some food for thought there, and they really got nothing else.
So with that in mind, we'll leave it right here.
That's going to do it for us here at the
QR code. For those who don't know, today's show was produced,
as always by the one, the only, Chris Thompson. If
(29:17):
you have some thought you'd like to share, please use
the red microphone talk back feature on the iHeartRadio app,
and while you're there, be sure to hit subscribe and
download all of our episodes.
Speaker 2 (29:25):
Also, be sure to check us out on all social media.
You can find us at Civic Cipher. We'd love for
you to subscribe.
Speaker 1 (29:30):
To us on YouTube, but any social media platform will do.
I've been your host and you can find me on
all social media at rams's Jack.
Speaker 2 (29:39):
I am q Ward on all social media as.
Speaker 1 (29:41):
Well, and be sure to check us out next time
right here as we share our news with our voice
from our perspective right here on the QR code.
Speaker 2 (29:50):
And until then, y'all peace, peace,
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