June 23, 2025 • 28 mins
On Part 2 of today's podcast, Hosts Ramses Ja and Q Ward discuss why certain foods are associated with Racism and the Intersection of Capitalism and Sports
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Still broadcasting from the Civic Cipher Studios.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
This is the QR code where we share perspective, seek understanding,
and shape outcomes.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
I'm your host, Ramsey's.
Speaker 3 (00:08):
Job, so he is your host Ramsey's job. I'm qbar
and I'll just let every boy a note.
Speaker 4 (00:15):
I just work here.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
It is our show, it is the QR code, and
this is my partner in crime. Well, I don't want
to say partner in crime. Who might use that against us.
This is my partner in pretty much everything. But we
want you to stick around because the rest of the
show is going to be interesting if.
Speaker 1 (00:32):
We do our jobs correctly.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
We're going to be discussing why certain foods are associated
with racism. You know, if you are a minority or
you know something in this country, you might know the
feeling of eating food and participating in parts of your
culture and kind of worried how that would be well
received on lunchrom Cafeteria.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
And Mixed Company. So we're gonna talk about that.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
We're also going to be talking about a story on capitalism.
Speaker 1 (00:58):
And sports and the intersection of those two.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
But before we get there, it is time for qwords
clap back, and Qward is going to talk to us
about the moral.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
Conflict within police and the military.
Speaker 3 (01:11):
Yeah, I think we are watching an example of when
loyalty blind loyalty turns into betrayal. And you and I,
because of the nature of what we do, we spend
a lot of time sitting with the weight of this
right like police violence, government overreach, and a loud silence
(01:32):
from people in power. And when we think about it
amongst each other and we talk about it, we often
pose the question to each other and even to some
of our leaders when we get a chance to speak
to them, how did we get here? And now, more recently,
who's going to stop it? Like that's where that kind
of hopeless feeling comes from, because there's seems to be
(01:52):
nobody in charge that can hold these people accountable. So
we're watching in real time, and you and I were
on the ground in Los Angeles watching law enforcement and
the military being used not to protect American citizens but
to control them.
Speaker 1 (02:11):
I remember that.
Speaker 3 (02:12):
Yeah, to intimidate them, to suppress them, and even live
on camera, harm them, the same citizens they claim to
serve and protect. And worse is that the people that
we were taught to trust, like you, get in trouble
call the police, or if something happens, soldiers in uniform
(02:33):
they're watching what's happening, and they're not just following orders.
They're clapping for it, they're cheering for it. And I'll
touch more on that in a second, but they're calling
that patriotism RAM and again it just feels like betrayal. Unfortunately,
(02:54):
this isn't new, it's just, at least in our lifetime,
more blatant, now more clear. Now, law enforcement in this
country has its roots, as we have said many times,
and you have highlighted brilliantly in slave patrols designed to capture, control,
and kill black people who dared pursue freedom because we
(03:17):
were not considered people. We were considered property and how
dare you have self determination? That same system evolved into
what we now see a surveillance, heavy, militarized, violent, racially biased,
and nearly immuned to accountability police agency system throughout the country.
And unfortunately today it's not just the police rams, it's
(03:40):
now the military. Because the president is calling in the
military to do his bidding and he seems to just
be being met with a yes, sir. So when our leaders,
most scarily the president openly suggest restoring the names of
Confederate general to us, basis, what are we supposed to
(04:02):
do when members of the military cheer that on, when
they give that a standing ovation, like we don't consider
that a red flag or more, you know, sinister a
declaration like, yeah, we're with him the military. So we're
(04:23):
claiming to serve the Constitution while praising the Confederacy who
openly fought against the United States and the war and losture. Right,
So you're a patriot for America, but let's align ourselves
with the foundational enemies.
Speaker 4 (04:42):
Of our public and what it stands for.
Speaker 3 (04:44):
Like, it's always been a very confusing thing to me,
Except it's not because, as we've talked about before, white
supremacy has always had a problem holding white supremacy accountable.
It's like the Spider Man meme, and they get really
confused on what we're supposed to do here.
Speaker 4 (05:00):
Right, So.
Speaker 3 (05:02):
The thing that makes me most uncomfortable rams is that
we're seeing something that's like deliberately dangerous. And it used
to be like a slow merging, but now it's a deliberate,
aggressive merging of white supremacist ideology and the uniform whichever
uniform and some people have stopped pretending to be neutral.
(05:23):
The loyalties are clear, not to justice, not to the people,
but to power, specifically white power.
Speaker 4 (05:30):
Where was this urgency?
Speaker 3 (05:31):
When armed men stormed the capitol, rams is, Armed white
men stormed the capitol, the National Guard was not called in.
White men beat up, assaulted, and harmed police officers. The
national Guard was not called in. But when black and
brown protesters just speak too loud or demand justice, then
the full force of the state shows up, the National Guard,
(05:53):
the FBI.
Speaker 4 (05:54):
The Marines. Yeah, so real the war, Yeah, in real time.
Speaker 3 (06:00):
Oh, this is not about the constitution or public safety
or preserving our hierarchy of our country. We just start
back at the beginning, right, So the long standing myth
that law enforcement in the military are politically neutral, we
are learning in real time this is not true. As
they will tell us at some point. I'm sure that
they're just following orders. But orders have consequences, and just
(06:24):
following them is an excuse of every regime ever. Google
Nazi Germany and see what just following orders meant so
to the officers, to the soldiers, to our quote unquote
leaders in uniform. I cannot sit here and think that
there are none of you that have a conscience or
(06:44):
a bit of humanity in you. Still, I don't think
everybody who enlisted to be a police officer or a
member of the armed forces did that to uphold white supremacy.
Some did it for social reasons, you know, Some did
it because it's a family tradition. Some did it to
see a world beyond the circumstances they were born into.
Speaker 1 (07:01):
You considered it too, once upon a.
Speaker 3 (07:02):
Time, absolutely tried multiple times. But this is your test.
You've been telling Ramses and I that we were wrong
about the police being a white supremacist organization for as
long as we've been speaking into microphones.
Speaker 4 (07:16):
So here's your moment. Yeah, here's your moment.
Speaker 3 (07:19):
You swore an oath to the Constitution, not to a politician,
not to a person, not to a party, not to
a race, so that oath does not change based on
who's the president. You don't get the cherry pick. Patriotism.
Confederacy was the enemy. White nationalism is still the enemy,
and you're protecting those ideas and telling us to shut
up about it. So you're either going to fight for
(07:40):
or with us, or stay silent and watch us be killed.
And oppressed and terminate it. But you are making a choice,
and you're making it out loud, because history will not
forget this betrayal and the country will not heal. And
to the people that say they love it, stand up
and start to defend it.
Speaker 2 (08:00):
Well, I would clap, but I think you clapped loud
enough for everyone.
Speaker 1 (08:11):
I was masterful, all.
Speaker 2 (08:13):
Right, Okay, So why certain foods are associated with racism?
Speaker 1 (08:27):
Quick story? Once upon a time I was at my old, old,
old radio station and.
Speaker 2 (08:36):
I went into the production room where I worked every
day making commercials and whynot. And I walked into my
studio and there was a banana in there when I
had left it on the mixing console. And I don't
need to tell you how that looked to me. So
(08:57):
I reacted accordingly, and I'll spare the whole story. But
it turned out that it was kind of a mistake.
Speaker 1 (09:04):
But I went through all the.
Speaker 2 (09:05):
Emotions, I went, you know, everything, and I was like
very upset, and everybody else, fortunately was very upset, like
who in the world would do that? It was out
there and to open for ramses to see, right. But
I tell you that story not to you know, pull
that story up necessary but I tell you that story
to suggest that I've always known that eating a banana
(09:28):
in front of people could be problematic. It's almost like
embarrassing because I know that that's one of the lowest
hanging racist jokes that people make about those of us
with brown skin. Although Chimpanzees technically have white skin, somehow
(09:48):
we're associated with our brown skin with like monkeys and whatnot. Right,
So eating a banana, which is also associated with monkeys
is too easy for for people to you know, use
against us, to make fun of us. Right So I'm
very very conscious if I ever eat a banana of
who's around me. I'm also very conscious of that when
(10:12):
it comes to watermelon, I'm also very kind. And you
know what, I'm not the only person because I know
Asian people have certain foods and they're like, hmm, you know,
I enjoy this with my family.
Speaker 1 (10:22):
I don't enjoy this in mixed company the Hispanic people.
Speaker 2 (10:25):
These foods are for my people, These are for certain celebrations.
We don't do this in mixed company. And I suspect
that a lot of that. I know that some of
it at least, but I suspect a lot of that
is perhaps for the same reasons, right, So you know,
we tell I can only tell black stories because I've
only lived a black life, and you know, que the
same as true of you. So I'm going to give
a little bit of context here. I'm going to share
(10:48):
from the Boston Globe with the Confederates, sorry, the Confederacy's
defeat and slavery's end. Early black entrepreneurship was bolstered by
women selling their fried chicken and other home cooked foods
to hungry white railroad passengers at train stops. Likewise, watermelon
was a cash crop and a token of financial independence
for the formerly enslaved, but white Southerners viewed any modicum
(11:12):
of Black success as an affront to their own sense
of dominance. It wasn't long before grotesque caricatures of black
people with the same foods they used to empower themselves
appeared on silverware, sheet music, and salt and pepper shakers.
Syndicated cartoons and newspapers meant that racist imagery that began
in the South didn't stay in the South. Those renderings
also emphasized that since fried chicken and watermelon are traditionally
(11:35):
eaten with the hands, black people and these foods were
uncouth and unclean. My house that I bought in Arizona.
In the backyard of the house right now, it's too
high for me to get to, but there are these
old tins nailed up on light. There's like an awning, right,
(11:55):
there are these old tins, like in the corner of
the house. The one area I couldn't get to are
these racist caricatures of black folks, like with their watermelon
and the big like cartoonish lips. So whoever had this
house before me, whoever put that up there, felt like
this was cool too, right, But let's get into the
weeds a little bit. Okay, So watermelon, you and I
(12:18):
we talked about this once upon a time. So watermelon
was considered a treat for black people because at a point,
you know, we didn't have refrigeration in this country. That
didn't exist in the world, honest with you. But ice
cream was like this delectable treat, right, and so black
(12:39):
people didn't get that, you know. But if a black
person did very well this is I'm talking like slave
times or whatever, the equivalent for a black person would
be watermelon, right, So watermelon in black circles became kind
of like like slave food like soul food, because you know,
the premium food went to white folks. Everyone knows the
(13:02):
history of soul food. You know, the slop and the
scraps and the leftover inwards and stuff from the animal
was given to the slaves, and the premium cuts were
given to, you know, the people that owned the slaves. Right,
same is true with ice cream, that went to the
people that owned the slaves. But if a slave did
(13:22):
well enough, they could get some watermelon, no problem there, Right,
So when slaves became free, one of the things that
was a part of the diet for black folks was watermelon.
You know, that just become a part of the culture
and so forth, and they were cheap to acquire, they
were easy to grow and sell, and this became economic
(13:45):
empowerment for black people that were just emerging from slavery,
that had a piece of land that they could work
and pay rent to, pay shares to whatever. And so,
you know, jealous southern white folks became enraged at this
and started to associate watermelon and black people and drew
(14:06):
them together in cartoonish ways. And of course that was
exported throughout the rest of the country. So this is
kind of the origin story of black people love watermelon, right,
fried chicken that became like a delicacy after slavery. You know,
chicken is like again a little bit more accessible, and
(14:27):
you know, black people being able to get chicken instead
of like pig innards showed like mobility.
Speaker 1 (14:34):
And so forth.
Speaker 2 (14:35):
But you know, now that everyone can eat the same food,
it was almost like a shame game. You know, Black
people love chicken. Oh, they love chicken. Chicken is normal
for us, but they love it. It's like the ultimate
for them.
Speaker 3 (14:46):
Right.
Speaker 2 (14:48):
And you know people love to cut off our history,
our ties to our history. You weren't a slave, why
do you want reparation? You didn't pick, I didn't own
a slave, all that.
Speaker 4 (14:56):
Sort of stuff. Right.
Speaker 1 (14:57):
People love doing that.
Speaker 2 (15:00):
But history matters because history is how we got to
where we are. If you didn't know why black people
are associated with watermelons without history, you would just think
that it just exists that way, and you would never
have any insight into what it's like to be a
black person to know this, to feel this, and to
(15:22):
have this be a part of your culture, and to
feel ashamed when you're sharing it in mixed company.
Speaker 1 (15:28):
I don't want to.
Speaker 2 (15:29):
Talk the rest of this up, but suffice it to
say that, you know, all of these things are associated
with some you know, black people, like grape soda. You know,
all this sort of stuff is associated in some way
with some racist undertaking or time frame in this country,
(15:49):
just like most other things. Now, I know I talked
up a lot, but I'd wanted to paint a full
picture here. Q. You know your thoughts here.
Speaker 3 (15:57):
Well, it's just you talked about and make company. My
first residency has a DJ A part of my rider
was that the people had to feed me, and the
DJ booth was up on a stage in the corner
of the room in the front of the building so
(16:17):
that everyone could see you. And I arrived and it
had this like elaborate set up, a nice sofa and
the table and it was right about the DJ booth
and it was really really nice, and the chef made
fried chicken, French fries and watermelon. Yes, I'm on the stage,
(16:40):
you know, it's I'm about to start djaying. It's you know,
it's like ten pm or eleven pm. I mean, yeah,
ten or eleven pm, and I'm on stage with a
fresh plate of fried chicken and watermelon. Now the problem
is fried chicken and watermelon is delicious.
Speaker 2 (16:56):
It's so good, and I mean, it's fantastic, amazing, but
I'm likely offended.
Speaker 3 (17:05):
And then the chef comes out and as a Mexican guy,
and of course he didn't mean any offense by it.
Speaker 4 (17:11):
He's Mexican.
Speaker 3 (17:12):
I'm black, and the whole room full of people was
almost all white. So I'd like take that to go
and eat it later because I can't even enjoy this.
Speaker 4 (17:20):
It smells amazing too, That's what I couldn't even enjoy it.
Speaker 3 (17:24):
Because I'm on stage in a room full of white
people and chicken and watermelon. It was just not something
I could even consume comfortably in that setting because of
the way we were set up to be looked at
as you know, primitive, for like you said, eating with
our hands. Pretending that chicken and watermelon is only good
(17:44):
to black people is an insane thing to do. But
once again, that narrative machine successfully pulled off that rebrand
as if any of those industries would exist if only
black people partake.
Speaker 2 (17:58):
You know, I think that's a good segue to, you know,
what we want to talk about in terms of entertainment,
Because you were talking about the intersection of capitalism and sports,
and you know, you famously worked in sports or sports
settings for many different facets of your career, So so
(18:19):
talk to us about that intersection, like kind of what
what came about over the over the past weekend.
Speaker 3 (18:26):
You know, it's a it's a really interesting thing, man.
We we often talk about what happened to us all
having the same ideas of what black people wanted and
needed in this country, right, we used to kind of
all stand on the same side of the street, walking
towards or fighting against the same things. And from very
(18:49):
early on, being exceptionally talented got you access to rooms,
even in rooms where they hated you, even in rooms
where if you weren't the entertainment you wouldn't be allowed in.
If you were the entertainment, you were. And that system
and that illusion started back before we were freed from slavery.
(19:10):
Let's give one of those slaves access to the house,
give them a position where where he or she is
kind of the authority, give them a little bit nicer clothes,
provide them one more extra meal, and they start to
see that they're exceptional and that they have access to
privilege and without even having to teach them to they
will protect that privilege. They will work for and protect
(19:34):
the system that is directly designed to oppress and then
really socially imprison them. And this is where the exception
ain't the rule, bro, It's like capitalism's greatest trick. It's
making the exception seem.
Speaker 4 (19:51):
Like the rule.
Speaker 3 (19:51):
And we've been sold that dream and taught that capitalism
is a fair game, like the idea of meritocracy. Anybody
can win if they work hard enough and they want
it bad enough, and they hustle long enough. But one
thing about my brother, Rams is is if the data
doesn't back it up, there is nothing for us to
(20:11):
talk about. And what we know, Rams, is that the
data it doesn't back this narrative. Social mobility is actually shrinking.
The wealth gap is growing, and most people that we know,
I don't even mean like the people who are considered
homeless or transient or impoverished. I'm talking about regular working,
(20:32):
day to day quote unquote used to be middle class people.
Speaker 4 (20:35):
Are one emergency.
Speaker 3 (20:38):
Away from homeless, one unexpected thing to happen to their
house or an appliance or their car or their job
and their life. And the way that it's set up
would collapse, But somehow we still believe in and subscribe
to this capitalist system. And I guess the biggest question,
and hopefully one that we can help answer today, is why,
(21:01):
like how did this brilliant distraction strategy work? And how
in the entertainment industry, and you know, more specifically, film, TV,
music and professional sports have helped amplify one of the
biggest lies ever told. So if you think of capitalism
(21:22):
as a dnit holy trinity to capitalism would be Hollywood
hip hop and the NBA or the NFL, or just
professional sports in general.
Speaker 4 (21:32):
Right, Okay, because you get Denzel.
Speaker 3 (21:36):
Washington, Viola Davis, Oprah Winfrey, Sammy Davis Junior, Michael Jackson,
Kendrick Lamar winning a Pulitzer Prize, Denzel and Holly Berry
and Sidney Poitier winning the Oscars, Lebron James building schools
and becoming a billionaire, Barack Obama becoming the president. Look,
black people, you can do it too, and then you
(22:00):
end up with us in some cases, not in all cases,
because we all live in this capitalist society and do
our best to participate as well we can to make
lives for ourselves. But we stopped fighting against it because
we think we can win at this game and this
thing that we should not feel connected to, we do
because we start believing that the system works. And what
(22:23):
made me even want to talk about this was a
discussion I had with a young black woman in Detroit
while we were there, who was passionately telling me that
you and I, on the discussion of White Lives Matter,
should have been more exploitative and more capitalist in that
endeavor and made some money and impacted the community with
that money, and trying to explain to her that there
(22:44):
were no virtues in doing that. If millions of kids
went to school wearing those shoes and that shirt, what
it would have meant to their classmates for us to
make a couple of dollars, we couldn't have made enough
money to change the world for our people. So then
because of that, there was no dollar amount anybody could
have offered us short of a trillion, where we could
(23:05):
have just taken all of us, not just all of
us black, but all of us poor, all of us
not fighting against ourselves, and created something different. Right, So,
the success of this propaganda machine, film, music, sports, they
didn't liberate us. They just gave some of us that
are exceptional access to the capital gains. But those leagues,
(23:30):
those teams, those networks, those labels, Who do you think
owns them rams?
Speaker 1 (23:36):
I know exactly where you're going with that.
Speaker 4 (23:37):
Who do you think controls them rams?
Speaker 1 (23:40):
Who do you not us?
Speaker 3 (23:41):
What do you think creates the infrastructure from which they
allow you to play that game inside of so capitalism
adores No, no, you go ahead, I'm.
Speaker 2 (23:50):
Sorry, so real quick, just to make your point. I
think it was Chris Rock that said something about Shaquille O'Neil.
He's like, we think that Shaquille O'Neil is, but wealthy
should be the pursuit. He said this more comic, comically inclined,
I guess, but he said Shaq is rich and he
and he like mimics a guy writing Shack a check and.
Speaker 1 (24:11):
Says, here's Shack, go buy yourself another one of those.
Speaker 2 (24:13):
Cars that bounce around, and then he goes the guy
that signs.
Speaker 1 (24:17):
Checks, Shack's check is wealthy.
Speaker 2 (24:20):
Right, And so you know to your point about who
is like the invisible hand behind these big names that
we know there's they're the people with like real power.
Speaker 1 (24:31):
This is part of why we would applaud someone.
Speaker 2 (24:33):
Like a madea what's his name, Hyler Perry. There you go,
someone like that Oprah too, to her credit, you know,
but she's shared that broadly. I think Tyler Perry is
a little bit more focused on empowering black folks. But
but anyway, Okay, back to you. I was just saying
that you're right, and that's a great no. No, Capitalism
(24:53):
loves a black success story. It helps him to continue
to sell it to the next generation.
Speaker 4 (24:58):
Capitalism loves a black success story.
Speaker 3 (25:00):
Look at jay Z, look at Oprah, look at Michael
Jordan ramses if they made it, what's your excuse?
Speaker 2 (25:09):
Well, I don't wrap. I'm not a TV personality and
reach the success that they did. And this is how
that system will gas, like the rest of us, into
fighting on its behalf. That system, in order to exist,
needs for some of us to have nothing, not little nothing.
Speaker 1 (25:30):
Can I make this lift too, please?
Speaker 2 (25:33):
So what you're saying is that capitalism needs there to
be some unemployment rate. Uh So some people have to
have no jobs in order to keep uh in wages,
workers wages low. And that's not true, not true under socialism, that's.
Speaker 3 (25:51):
What you were saying. So representation matters. We hear that
all the time. But representation without redistribution is just decoration,
like it if the people in power that, if those
hands don't change, then that representation is just marketing. It's
just good pr So we have some black billionaires now,
but our communities are still under resourced, over policed, and
(26:14):
gentrified into not existing anymore. So when ownership, land and
capital are still locked behind very very high racist walls,
then what does it mean is that freedom? I don't
think so, right, So we can't keep pointing to the
glow and ignoring the darkness. Capitalism does not give us power.
(26:40):
It gave us a stage. It gives you and I
a spotlight in microphones.
Speaker 1 (26:45):
Give shack a bouncy start.
Speaker 3 (26:47):
But it also provides a soundtrack to our struggle. Right,
we're going to be all right if God got us right.
But it's a contract that we can't even afford to sign.
Capitalism has used our stories to sell its games, even
if those games are never meant to be fair. It
makes it look like it can be though. So yeah,
(27:10):
there's success stories, but we don't need it anymore. We
have enough success stories. We always knew we could, so
that didn't prove anything new. What we need is ownership
and access and truth, not performance, because, as Ramses has
said many a time's our goal was never just to
sit at the table. Our goal was to own the table.
(27:34):
And maybe at some point, this is me dreaming out loud,
I'm going to sound like my brother. We can tear
the whole table down. Yeah, I like that and build
our own all right.
Speaker 2 (27:45):
Let me say this just because I think it helps
that live a little bit more. It almost sounds like
capitalism is like the lottery, because whenever somebody wins the lottery,
they certainly parade them around like, hey, you can win too.
But you know, most people will not win. Most people
will not become billionaires. It doesn't matter how hard you work,
doesn't matter how smart you are, it doesn't matter what.
(28:07):
It just won't work that way. And it's even less
likely for people from historically marginalized communities. Anyway, I thought
that would help out a little bit. So that is
going to do it for us here at the QR Code.
Today's show was produced by Chris Thompson. If you have
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microphone talk back feature on the our heart radio app.
While you're there, be sure to hit subscribe and download
all of our episodes. Also, be sure to check us
(28:29):
out on all social media at Civic Cipher, I have
been your host Rams's job.
Speaker 4 (28:35):
And I am qword I still work here.
Speaker 2 (28:38):
You can find us both on all social media and listen.
Before we go, I just want to say you know,
I know that sometimes we talk about heavy stuff, but
for those of you that make it to the end,
it really doesn't matter to us.
Speaker 1 (28:51):
We salute you.
Speaker 2 (28:52):
Be sure to come back and join us as we
share our news with our voice from our perspective right
here on the QR code
Still broadcasting from the Civic Cipher Studios.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
This is the QR code where we share perspective, seek understanding,
and shape outcomes.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
I'm your host, Ramsey's.
Speaker 3 (00:08):
Job, so he is your host Ramsey's job. I'm qbar
and I'll just let every boy a note.
Speaker 4 (00:15):
I just work here.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
It is our show, it is the QR code, and
this is my partner in crime. Well, I don't want
to say partner in crime. Who might use that against us.
This is my partner in pretty much everything. But we
want you to stick around because the rest of the
show is going to be interesting if.
Speaker 1 (00:32):
We do our jobs correctly.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
We're going to be discussing why certain foods are associated
with racism. You know, if you are a minority or
you know something in this country, you might know the
feeling of eating food and participating in parts of your
culture and kind of worried how that would be well
received on lunchrom Cafeteria.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
And Mixed Company. So we're gonna talk about that.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
We're also going to be talking about a story on capitalism.
Speaker 1 (00:58):
And sports and the intersection of those two.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
But before we get there, it is time for qwords
clap back, and Qward is going to talk to us
about the moral.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
Conflict within police and the military.
Speaker 3 (01:11):
Yeah, I think we are watching an example of when
loyalty blind loyalty turns into betrayal. And you and I,
because of the nature of what we do, we spend
a lot of time sitting with the weight of this
right like police violence, government overreach, and a loud silence
(01:32):
from people in power. And when we think about it
amongst each other and we talk about it, we often
pose the question to each other and even to some
of our leaders when we get a chance to speak
to them, how did we get here? And now, more recently,
who's going to stop it? Like that's where that kind
of hopeless feeling comes from, because there's seems to be
(01:52):
nobody in charge that can hold these people accountable. So
we're watching in real time, and you and I were
on the ground in Los Angeles watching law enforcement and
the military being used not to protect American citizens but
to control them.
Speaker 1 (02:11):
I remember that.
Speaker 3 (02:12):
Yeah, to intimidate them, to suppress them, and even live
on camera, harm them, the same citizens they claim to
serve and protect. And worse is that the people that
we were taught to trust, like you, get in trouble
call the police, or if something happens, soldiers in uniform
(02:33):
they're watching what's happening, and they're not just following orders.
They're clapping for it, they're cheering for it. And I'll
touch more on that in a second, but they're calling
that patriotism RAM and again it just feels like betrayal. Unfortunately,
(02:54):
this isn't new, it's just, at least in our lifetime,
more blatant, now more clear. Now, law enforcement in this
country has its roots, as we have said many times,
and you have highlighted brilliantly in slave patrols designed to capture, control,
and kill black people who dared pursue freedom because we
(03:17):
were not considered people. We were considered property and how
dare you have self determination? That same system evolved into
what we now see a surveillance, heavy, militarized, violent, racially biased,
and nearly immuned to accountability police agency system throughout the country.
And unfortunately today it's not just the police rams, it's
(03:40):
now the military. Because the president is calling in the
military to do his bidding and he seems to just
be being met with a yes, sir. So when our leaders,
most scarily the president openly suggest restoring the names of
Confederate general to us, basis, what are we supposed to
(04:02):
do when members of the military cheer that on, when
they give that a standing ovation, like we don't consider
that a red flag or more, you know, sinister a
declaration like, yeah, we're with him the military. So we're
(04:23):
claiming to serve the Constitution while praising the Confederacy who
openly fought against the United States and the war and losture. Right,
So you're a patriot for America, but let's align ourselves
with the foundational enemies.
Speaker 4 (04:42):
Of our public and what it stands for.
Speaker 3 (04:44):
Like, it's always been a very confusing thing to me,
Except it's not because, as we've talked about before, white
supremacy has always had a problem holding white supremacy accountable.
It's like the Spider Man meme, and they get really
confused on what we're supposed to do here.
Speaker 4 (05:00):
Right, So.
Speaker 3 (05:02):
The thing that makes me most uncomfortable rams is that
we're seeing something that's like deliberately dangerous. And it used
to be like a slow merging, but now it's a deliberate,
aggressive merging of white supremacist ideology and the uniform whichever
uniform and some people have stopped pretending to be neutral.
(05:23):
The loyalties are clear, not to justice, not to the people,
but to power, specifically white power.
Speaker 4 (05:30):
Where was this urgency?
Speaker 3 (05:31):
When armed men stormed the capitol, rams is, Armed white
men stormed the capitol, the National Guard was not called in.
White men beat up, assaulted, and harmed police officers. The
national Guard was not called in. But when black and
brown protesters just speak too loud or demand justice, then
the full force of the state shows up, the National Guard,
(05:53):
the FBI.
Speaker 4 (05:54):
The Marines. Yeah, so real the war, Yeah, in real time.
Speaker 3 (06:00):
Oh, this is not about the constitution or public safety
or preserving our hierarchy of our country. We just start
back at the beginning, right, So the long standing myth
that law enforcement in the military are politically neutral, we
are learning in real time this is not true. As
they will tell us at some point. I'm sure that
they're just following orders. But orders have consequences, and just
(06:24):
following them is an excuse of every regime ever. Google
Nazi Germany and see what just following orders meant so
to the officers, to the soldiers, to our quote unquote
leaders in uniform. I cannot sit here and think that
there are none of you that have a conscience or
(06:44):
a bit of humanity in you. Still, I don't think
everybody who enlisted to be a police officer or a
member of the armed forces did that to uphold white supremacy.
Some did it for social reasons, you know, Some did
it because it's a family tradition. Some did it to
see a world beyond the circumstances they were born into.
Speaker 1 (07:01):
You considered it too, once upon a.
Speaker 3 (07:02):
Time, absolutely tried multiple times. But this is your test.
You've been telling Ramses and I that we were wrong
about the police being a white supremacist organization for as
long as we've been speaking into microphones.
Speaker 4 (07:16):
So here's your moment. Yeah, here's your moment.
Speaker 3 (07:19):
You swore an oath to the Constitution, not to a politician,
not to a person, not to a party, not to
a race, so that oath does not change based on
who's the president. You don't get the cherry pick. Patriotism.
Confederacy was the enemy. White nationalism is still the enemy,
and you're protecting those ideas and telling us to shut
up about it. So you're either going to fight for
(07:40):
or with us, or stay silent and watch us be killed.
And oppressed and terminate it. But you are making a choice,
and you're making it out loud, because history will not
forget this betrayal and the country will not heal. And
to the people that say they love it, stand up
and start to defend it.
Speaker 2 (08:00):
Well, I would clap, but I think you clapped loud
enough for everyone.
Speaker 1 (08:11):
I was masterful, all.
Speaker 2 (08:13):
Right, Okay, So why certain foods are associated with racism?
Speaker 1 (08:27):
Quick story? Once upon a time I was at my old, old,
old radio station and.
Speaker 2 (08:36):
I went into the production room where I worked every
day making commercials and whynot. And I walked into my
studio and there was a banana in there when I
had left it on the mixing console. And I don't
need to tell you how that looked to me. So
(08:57):
I reacted accordingly, and I'll spare the whole story. But
it turned out that it was kind of a mistake.
Speaker 1 (09:04):
But I went through all the.
Speaker 2 (09:05):
Emotions, I went, you know, everything, and I was like
very upset, and everybody else, fortunately was very upset, like
who in the world would do that? It was out
there and to open for ramses to see, right. But
I tell you that story not to you know, pull
that story up necessary but I tell you that story
to suggest that I've always known that eating a banana
(09:28):
in front of people could be problematic. It's almost like
embarrassing because I know that that's one of the lowest
hanging racist jokes that people make about those of us
with brown skin. Although Chimpanzees technically have white skin, somehow
(09:48):
we're associated with our brown skin with like monkeys and whatnot. Right,
So eating a banana, which is also associated with monkeys
is too easy for for people to you know, use
against us, to make fun of us. Right So I'm
very very conscious if I ever eat a banana of
who's around me. I'm also very conscious of that when
(10:12):
it comes to watermelon, I'm also very kind. And you
know what, I'm not the only person because I know
Asian people have certain foods and they're like, hmm, you know,
I enjoy this with my family.
Speaker 1 (10:22):
I don't enjoy this in mixed company the Hispanic people.
Speaker 2 (10:25):
These foods are for my people, These are for certain celebrations.
We don't do this in mixed company. And I suspect
that a lot of that. I know that some of
it at least, but I suspect a lot of that
is perhaps for the same reasons, right, So you know,
we tell I can only tell black stories because I've
only lived a black life, and you know, que the
same as true of you. So I'm going to give
a little bit of context here. I'm going to share
(10:48):
from the Boston Globe with the Confederates, sorry, the Confederacy's
defeat and slavery's end. Early black entrepreneurship was bolstered by
women selling their fried chicken and other home cooked foods
to hungry white railroad passengers at train stops. Likewise, watermelon
was a cash crop and a token of financial independence
for the formerly enslaved, but white Southerners viewed any modicum
(11:12):
of Black success as an affront to their own sense
of dominance. It wasn't long before grotesque caricatures of black
people with the same foods they used to empower themselves
appeared on silverware, sheet music, and salt and pepper shakers.
Syndicated cartoons and newspapers meant that racist imagery that began
in the South didn't stay in the South. Those renderings
also emphasized that since fried chicken and watermelon are traditionally
(11:35):
eaten with the hands, black people and these foods were
uncouth and unclean. My house that I bought in Arizona.
In the backyard of the house right now, it's too
high for me to get to, but there are these
old tins nailed up on light. There's like an awning, right,
(11:55):
there are these old tins, like in the corner of
the house. The one area I couldn't get to are
these racist caricatures of black folks, like with their watermelon
and the big like cartoonish lips. So whoever had this
house before me, whoever put that up there, felt like
this was cool too, right, But let's get into the
weeds a little bit. Okay, So watermelon, you and I
(12:18):
we talked about this once upon a time. So watermelon
was considered a treat for black people because at a point,
you know, we didn't have refrigeration in this country. That
didn't exist in the world, honest with you. But ice
cream was like this delectable treat, right, and so black
(12:39):
people didn't get that, you know. But if a black
person did very well this is I'm talking like slave
times or whatever, the equivalent for a black person would
be watermelon, right, So watermelon in black circles became kind
of like like slave food like soul food, because you know,
the premium food went to white folks. Everyone knows the
(13:02):
history of soul food. You know, the slop and the
scraps and the leftover inwards and stuff from the animal
was given to the slaves, and the premium cuts were
given to, you know, the people that owned the slaves. Right,
same is true with ice cream, that went to the
people that owned the slaves. But if a slave did
(13:22):
well enough, they could get some watermelon, no problem there, Right,
So when slaves became free, one of the things that
was a part of the diet for black folks was watermelon.
You know, that just become a part of the culture
and so forth, and they were cheap to acquire, they
were easy to grow and sell, and this became economic
(13:45):
empowerment for black people that were just emerging from slavery,
that had a piece of land that they could work
and pay rent to, pay shares to whatever. And so,
you know, jealous southern white folks became enraged at this
and started to associate watermelon and black people and drew
(14:06):
them together in cartoonish ways. And of course that was
exported throughout the rest of the country. So this is
kind of the origin story of black people love watermelon, right,
fried chicken that became like a delicacy after slavery. You know,
chicken is like again a little bit more accessible, and
(14:27):
you know, black people being able to get chicken instead
of like pig innards showed like mobility.
Speaker 1 (14:34):
And so forth.
Speaker 2 (14:35):
But you know, now that everyone can eat the same food,
it was almost like a shame game. You know, Black
people love chicken. Oh, they love chicken. Chicken is normal
for us, but they love it. It's like the ultimate
for them.
Speaker 3 (14:46):
Right.
Speaker 2 (14:48):
And you know people love to cut off our history,
our ties to our history. You weren't a slave, why
do you want reparation? You didn't pick, I didn't own
a slave, all that.
Speaker 4 (14:56):
Sort of stuff. Right.
Speaker 1 (14:57):
People love doing that.
Speaker 2 (15:00):
But history matters because history is how we got to
where we are. If you didn't know why black people
are associated with watermelons without history, you would just think
that it just exists that way, and you would never
have any insight into what it's like to be a
black person to know this, to feel this, and to
(15:22):
have this be a part of your culture, and to
feel ashamed when you're sharing it in mixed company.
Speaker 1 (15:28):
I don't want to.
Speaker 2 (15:29):
Talk the rest of this up, but suffice it to
say that, you know, all of these things are associated
with some you know, black people, like grape soda. You know,
all this sort of stuff is associated in some way
with some racist undertaking or time frame in this country,
(15:49):
just like most other things. Now, I know I talked
up a lot, but I'd wanted to paint a full
picture here. Q. You know your thoughts here.
Speaker 3 (15:57):
Well, it's just you talked about and make company. My
first residency has a DJ A part of my rider
was that the people had to feed me, and the
DJ booth was up on a stage in the corner
of the room in the front of the building so
(16:17):
that everyone could see you. And I arrived and it
had this like elaborate set up, a nice sofa and
the table and it was right about the DJ booth
and it was really really nice, and the chef made
fried chicken, French fries and watermelon. Yes, I'm on the stage,
(16:40):
you know, it's I'm about to start djaying. It's you know,
it's like ten pm or eleven pm. I mean, yeah,
ten or eleven pm, and I'm on stage with a
fresh plate of fried chicken and watermelon. Now the problem
is fried chicken and watermelon is delicious.
Speaker 2 (16:56):
It's so good, and I mean, it's fantastic, amazing, but
I'm likely offended.
Speaker 3 (17:05):
And then the chef comes out and as a Mexican guy,
and of course he didn't mean any offense by it.
Speaker 4 (17:11):
He's Mexican.
Speaker 3 (17:12):
I'm black, and the whole room full of people was
almost all white. So I'd like take that to go
and eat it later because I can't even enjoy this.
Speaker 4 (17:20):
It smells amazing too, That's what I couldn't even enjoy it.
Speaker 3 (17:24):
Because I'm on stage in a room full of white
people and chicken and watermelon. It was just not something
I could even consume comfortably in that setting because of
the way we were set up to be looked at
as you know, primitive, for like you said, eating with
our hands. Pretending that chicken and watermelon is only good
(17:44):
to black people is an insane thing to do. But
once again, that narrative machine successfully pulled off that rebrand
as if any of those industries would exist if only
black people partake.
Speaker 2 (17:58):
You know, I think that's a good segue to, you know,
what we want to talk about in terms of entertainment,
Because you were talking about the intersection of capitalism and sports,
and you know, you famously worked in sports or sports
settings for many different facets of your career, So so
(18:19):
talk to us about that intersection, like kind of what
what came about over the over the past weekend.
Speaker 3 (18:26):
You know, it's a it's a really interesting thing, man.
We we often talk about what happened to us all
having the same ideas of what black people wanted and
needed in this country, right, we used to kind of
all stand on the same side of the street, walking
towards or fighting against the same things. And from very
(18:49):
early on, being exceptionally talented got you access to rooms,
even in rooms where they hated you, even in rooms
where if you weren't the entertainment you wouldn't be allowed in.
If you were the entertainment, you were. And that system
and that illusion started back before we were freed from slavery.
(19:10):
Let's give one of those slaves access to the house,
give them a position where where he or she is
kind of the authority, give them a little bit nicer clothes,
provide them one more extra meal, and they start to
see that they're exceptional and that they have access to
privilege and without even having to teach them to they
will protect that privilege. They will work for and protect
(19:34):
the system that is directly designed to oppress and then
really socially imprison them. And this is where the exception
ain't the rule, bro, It's like capitalism's greatest trick. It's
making the exception seem.
Speaker 4 (19:51):
Like the rule.
Speaker 3 (19:51):
And we've been sold that dream and taught that capitalism
is a fair game, like the idea of meritocracy. Anybody
can win if they work hard enough and they want
it bad enough, and they hustle long enough. But one
thing about my brother, Rams is is if the data
doesn't back it up, there is nothing for us to
(20:11):
talk about. And what we know, Rams, is that the
data it doesn't back this narrative. Social mobility is actually shrinking.
The wealth gap is growing, and most people that we know,
I don't even mean like the people who are considered
homeless or transient or impoverished. I'm talking about regular working,
(20:32):
day to day quote unquote used to be middle class people.
Speaker 4 (20:35):
Are one emergency.
Speaker 3 (20:38):
Away from homeless, one unexpected thing to happen to their
house or an appliance or their car or their job
and their life. And the way that it's set up
would collapse, But somehow we still believe in and subscribe
to this capitalist system. And I guess the biggest question,
and hopefully one that we can help answer today, is why,
(21:01):
like how did this brilliant distraction strategy work? And how
in the entertainment industry, and you know, more specifically, film, TV,
music and professional sports have helped amplify one of the
biggest lies ever told. So if you think of capitalism
(21:22):
as a dnit holy trinity to capitalism would be Hollywood
hip hop and the NBA or the NFL, or just
professional sports in general.
Speaker 4 (21:32):
Right, Okay, because you get Denzel.
Speaker 3 (21:36):
Washington, Viola Davis, Oprah Winfrey, Sammy Davis Junior, Michael Jackson,
Kendrick Lamar winning a Pulitzer Prize, Denzel and Holly Berry
and Sidney Poitier winning the Oscars, Lebron James building schools
and becoming a billionaire, Barack Obama becoming the president. Look,
black people, you can do it too, and then you
(22:00):
end up with us in some cases, not in all cases,
because we all live in this capitalist society and do
our best to participate as well we can to make
lives for ourselves. But we stopped fighting against it because
we think we can win at this game and this
thing that we should not feel connected to, we do
because we start believing that the system works. And what
(22:23):
made me even want to talk about this was a
discussion I had with a young black woman in Detroit
while we were there, who was passionately telling me that
you and I, on the discussion of White Lives Matter,
should have been more exploitative and more capitalist in that
endeavor and made some money and impacted the community with
that money, and trying to explain to her that there
(22:44):
were no virtues in doing that. If millions of kids
went to school wearing those shoes and that shirt, what
it would have meant to their classmates for us to
make a couple of dollars, we couldn't have made enough
money to change the world for our people. So then
because of that, there was no dollar amount anybody could
have offered us short of a trillion, where we could
(23:05):
have just taken all of us, not just all of
us black, but all of us poor, all of us
not fighting against ourselves, and created something different. Right, So,
the success of this propaganda machine, film, music, sports, they
didn't liberate us. They just gave some of us that
are exceptional access to the capital gains. But those leagues,
(23:30):
those teams, those networks, those labels, Who do you think
owns them rams?
Speaker 1 (23:36):
I know exactly where you're going with that.
Speaker 4 (23:37):
Who do you think controls them rams?
Speaker 1 (23:40):
Who do you not us?
Speaker 3 (23:41):
What do you think creates the infrastructure from which they
allow you to play that game inside of so capitalism
adores No, no, you go ahead, I'm.
Speaker 2 (23:50):
Sorry, so real quick, just to make your point. I
think it was Chris Rock that said something about Shaquille O'Neil.
He's like, we think that Shaquille O'Neil is, but wealthy
should be the pursuit. He said this more comic, comically inclined,
I guess, but he said Shaq is rich and he
and he like mimics a guy writing Shack a check and.
Speaker 1 (24:11):
Says, here's Shack, go buy yourself another one of those.
Speaker 2 (24:13):
Cars that bounce around, and then he goes the guy
that signs.
Speaker 1 (24:17):
Checks, Shack's check is wealthy.
Speaker 2 (24:20):
Right, And so you know to your point about who
is like the invisible hand behind these big names that
we know there's they're the people with like real power.
Speaker 1 (24:31):
This is part of why we would applaud someone.
Speaker 2 (24:33):
Like a madea what's his name, Hyler Perry. There you go,
someone like that Oprah too, to her credit, you know,
but she's shared that broadly. I think Tyler Perry is
a little bit more focused on empowering black folks. But
but anyway, Okay, back to you. I was just saying
that you're right, and that's a great no. No, Capitalism
(24:53):
loves a black success story. It helps him to continue
to sell it to the next generation.
Speaker 4 (24:58):
Capitalism loves a black success story.
Speaker 3 (25:00):
Look at jay Z, look at Oprah, look at Michael
Jordan ramses if they made it, what's your excuse?
Speaker 2 (25:09):
Well, I don't wrap. I'm not a TV personality and
reach the success that they did. And this is how
that system will gas, like the rest of us, into
fighting on its behalf. That system, in order to exist,
needs for some of us to have nothing, not little nothing.
Speaker 1 (25:30):
Can I make this lift too, please?
Speaker 2 (25:33):
So what you're saying is that capitalism needs there to
be some unemployment rate. Uh So some people have to
have no jobs in order to keep uh in wages,
workers wages low. And that's not true, not true under socialism, that's.
Speaker 3 (25:51):
What you were saying. So representation matters. We hear that
all the time. But representation without redistribution is just decoration,
like it if the people in power that, if those
hands don't change, then that representation is just marketing. It's
just good pr So we have some black billionaires now,
but our communities are still under resourced, over policed, and
(26:14):
gentrified into not existing anymore. So when ownership, land and
capital are still locked behind very very high racist walls,
then what does it mean is that freedom? I don't
think so, right, So we can't keep pointing to the
glow and ignoring the darkness. Capitalism does not give us power.
(26:40):
It gave us a stage. It gives you and I
a spotlight in microphones.
Speaker 1 (26:45):
Give shack a bouncy start.
Speaker 3 (26:47):
But it also provides a soundtrack to our struggle. Right,
we're going to be all right if God got us right.
But it's a contract that we can't even afford to sign.
Capitalism has used our stories to sell its games, even
if those games are never meant to be fair. It
makes it look like it can be though. So yeah,
(27:10):
there's success stories, but we don't need it anymore. We
have enough success stories. We always knew we could, so
that didn't prove anything new. What we need is ownership
and access and truth, not performance, because, as Ramses has
said many a time's our goal was never just to
sit at the table. Our goal was to own the table.
(27:34):
And maybe at some point, this is me dreaming out loud,
I'm going to sound like my brother. We can tear
the whole table down. Yeah, I like that and build
our own all right.
Speaker 2 (27:45):
Let me say this just because I think it helps
that live a little bit more. It almost sounds like
capitalism is like the lottery, because whenever somebody wins the lottery,
they certainly parade them around like, hey, you can win too.
But you know, most people will not win. Most people
will not become billionaires. It doesn't matter how hard you work,
doesn't matter how smart you are, it doesn't matter what.
(28:07):
It just won't work that way. And it's even less
likely for people from historically marginalized communities. Anyway, I thought
that would help out a little bit. So that is
going to do it for us here at the QR Code.
Today's show was produced by Chris Thompson. If you have
some thoughts you'd like to share, please use the red
microphone talk back feature on the our heart radio app.
While you're there, be sure to hit subscribe and download
all of our episodes. Also, be sure to check us
(28:29):
out on all social media at Civic Cipher, I have
been your host Rams's job.
Speaker 4 (28:35):
And I am qword I still work here.
Speaker 2 (28:38):
You can find us both on all social media and listen.
Before we go, I just want to say you know,
I know that sometimes we talk about heavy stuff, but
for those of you that make it to the end,
it really doesn't matter to us.
Speaker 1 (28:51):
We salute you.
Speaker 2 (28:52):
Be sure to come back and join us as we
share our news with our voice from our perspective right
here on the QR code
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