December 5, 2025 • 23 mins
Host Dr. Vanessa Tyler has an in-depth discussion with Dr. Timothy E. Lewis, Associate Professor and Director of Black Studies at Southern Illinois University Edwardsville (SIUE). Dr. Lewis is the first Black professor to receive tenure in the Department of Political Science at SIUE. Their discussion includes a conversation about the 're-education of white Americans' when it comes to race relations in this country, The "Black proximity defense" when accused of bias or racism, and the event "Black - A Celebration of Black Research".
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Ever heard anybody say I have black friends, so I
can't be racist.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
I have a lot of African American friends.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
You might remember that former Virginia Governor Ralph Northam tying
himself up in knots, explaining how a photo of a
person in blackface standing next to another and a KKK
get up, including pointy hood, was discovered in his old
college photos.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
I went to school with, played ball with, and I
suspect I've had as much exposure to people of color
as anybody. It seems to be part of the white
racial script to default this notion of having black friends.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
So you think you have black friends, but do you
really in black Land? And now as a brown person,
you just feel so invisible.
Speaker 3 (00:47):
Where we're from.
Speaker 4 (00:49):
Brothers and sisters. I welcome you to this joyful exaiya.
Speaker 3 (00:52):
We celebrate freedom where we are.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
I know someone heard something and we're going. We the
people means all the people.
Speaker 3 (01:02):
The black information that work presents Blackland. With your host
Vanessa Tyler, the phrase we've all heard before, but I
have black friends makes Professor Timothy Lewis cringe because there
is so much more behind that statement, which he explores
in his a celebration of black research. Here to break
(01:22):
down his findings, is the first black professor to receive
tenure in the political science department at Southern Illinois University, Edwardsville.
Doctor Timothy Lewis, Doctor Lewis, Welcome.
Speaker 4 (01:34):
Good afternoon, and thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
First talk a little about your research. What did you find?
Speaker 2 (01:42):
If I can back up a little bit, and can
I tell you what sparked this research. Yes, so doing
what some people have termed, you know, with the racial awakening,
you know, the protests in twenty twenty, following the death
so RONNERD. Taylor, Amata Aubrey, George Floyd, I was actual
(02:02):
to be on several panels. I was doing panels and
conversations and keynotes weekly basically, and it was during this
time that I really had upfront conversations, particularly with white people,
about you know, how society's institutions, its cultures, and structures
(02:24):
really oppressed black people. And it was in these conversations
that a particular quote from doctor King just kept coming
to my mind.
Speaker 4 (02:37):
About the need for a re education.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
That white people, by their privilege, tend to only know whiteness,
white culture, white norms, and I landed on the phrase
you know, I have black friends, because whenever a white
person is accused of racism or racial ignorance, they defaulted
that to that phrase, you know, I have black friends.
Speaker 1 (03:02):
So it's like black proximity as a defense.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
That's how they asserted. And it happens in a host
of ways, and it happens despite, you know, the achievement
of the person. And in my research, I began with
this story of a waitress named Tabitha Duncan who went
viral back in twenty eighteen, and her im media response was,
(03:28):
you know, I didn't read it, I have black friends.
But we also saw in the height of the presidential
election this year, during the Republican primary, when Nicki Hagley
could not confirm that slavery was actually the cause of
the Civil War, she defaulted to the phrase, of course
(03:48):
I knew that, And she said, follow that up, what
I have black friends. I had black friends growing up.
It is a very talked about thing. We have a
big history in South Carolina. So no matter that the
level of achievement men or pathway in life, it seems
to be part of the white racial script to default
this notion of having black friends.
Speaker 1 (04:07):
So in your research, in your belief we basically in
America have race all wrong and that we should be
re educated. America should be re educated about race. But
whose responsibility is it to re educate about race.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
It's not black people's responsibility to educate white people about
white systems. Black oppression exists because of white institution, structure, systems,
cultural the norms, and it isn't black people's responsibility to
alleviate their own impression. That responsibility falls upon the creators
of the system and the institutions, which are white people.
Speaker 1 (04:49):
Now that President elect Trump has vowed and promises to
kind of excuse the phrase, blow up all the institutions,
So then from that, maybe it is a good thing
for us. Maybe these institutions with its institutionalized racism should
(05:11):
be blown up.
Speaker 2 (05:12):
Maybe this sounds cynical, but I do not trust that
even if they were dismantled, some of these systems, institutions,
that they were replacing with more equitable ones. And we
look at history and we look at the creation of
various institutions in America, whether we're talking about education, health care,
(05:34):
or law enforcement. Every institution was created either to regulate
or control people of color. Or it was created without
people of color at the table. That has been a
consistent pattern throughout history, and I do not believe that
that pattern would be changed or ended, particularly in the
(05:57):
Trump administration.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
DEI becomes such a dirty phrase and so hated. How
did that happen?
Speaker 2 (06:05):
Well, Diversity equity inclusion is not a new concept. As
many people may think the phrase dei or diverse equity
inclusion as a buzzword, it's only about four or five
years old. But what the concepts go all the way
back to the Civil Rights movement, the notion that it
(06:37):
needs to be a greater presence of people of color,
of different people, different backgrounds. Those people need to be included,
and then those people, once included, need to be treated
in a way that it's fair and equitable and in
some ways compensates for the hurt and harm that they
have experience, be at no fault of their own.
Speaker 4 (06:55):
So that those.
Speaker 2 (06:56):
Concepts, those core principles, are not new.
Speaker 4 (07:00):
They became to be a.
Speaker 2 (07:01):
Dirty word and associate with words like woken and things
as really political strategies. There is a fear that because
America is becoming more colored, particularly the increases in uh
Latino or LATINX populations, the increases in black populations in
(07:23):
creating increasing Asian American populations, while simultaneous there are population
decreases among white Americans that as these demographics grow statistically
that that will siphon power away from or white white Americans.
It's something called the white replacement theory, or the greater
(07:47):
replacement theory as some scholars call it. DEI was a
political strategy and a way to prevent that from happening
by making versus equent inclusion bad things, dirty words.
Speaker 4 (08:03):
That was a political ploy as.
Speaker 2 (08:06):
An attempt tonify or mitigate this shift and population that
was observed, which a lot of people associated with the
shift in political power.
Speaker 5 (08:15):
We won the popular vote by records, so nobody can
say that anymore about us.
Speaker 3 (08:20):
Nobody can say.
Speaker 1 (08:21):
That, yet he wins a trifecta, the White House, the House,
in the Senate. How did this even happen?
Speaker 2 (08:31):
But as a political scientist, this election was frustrating, not
necessarily because of the outcome, because the outcome was predictable.
It was frustrating because the narratives that you heard from
the media were somewhere toned down to both historical and
statistical facts. So President Trump did not really make gains
(08:56):
among minorities. It was atiscal tie between what he got
from black men in this election where he got in
past elections. He made minimum gains among the Latino or
LATINX citizens. It wasn't the narrative that you hear from
the media. That is a fact that the media is
(09:19):
over It is overlooking, and that is that the most
consistent predictor of voting behavior is race. Since the passage
of the Civil rights at the nineteen sixty four that
is sixty years ago, the Democratic candidate has never received
(09:40):
a majority of the white vote in no presidential election.
Even with the efficacy of the Obama presidency election in
two thousand and eight, he still did not get more
than fifty percent of the white vote.
Speaker 5 (09:55):
For when we have faced down impossible lots, told we're
not ready, or that we shouldn't try, or that we can't,
generations of Americans have responded with a simple creed that
sums up the spirit of a people. Yes we can,
(10:16):
Yes we can, Yes we can.
Speaker 2 (10:25):
So what that informs us is that technically white Americans,
no matter the state of the economy, the moral altitude,
or saying this election, you know the criminal record of
the candidate, they are going to vote Republican, And in
this particular election, the turnout was just higher. It wasn't
(10:47):
that President Trump was able to dismantleate Democratic Democrat coalition
or even increase substantially his numbers of racially minoritized people.
It was simply that the status quote state, and that
status quote was that white Americans turned out to the post.
What we will see once all boats are counting, is
that it was not that the landslide again that the
(11:10):
media has framed it to be. We will see pretty
consistent outcomes as we've seen for most presidential elections.
Speaker 1 (11:18):
You mentioned a documentary. Would you talk a little bit
about that and what were some of the answers when
you went out and talked to black people.
Speaker 2 (11:29):
The documentary again, it's titled do you Know you Have
Black Friends? And it's a direct question towards white Americans
who will affirm black proximity as a way to generate
themselves of racism or racial ignorance.
Speaker 4 (11:43):
And that there were several things that I.
Speaker 2 (11:45):
Found, I get you to call them big takeaways in
composing this documentary. One that when white people affirm that
they have black friends, they are only associating blackness with
dark skin, rounded nasal cavity, or certain text of hair.
They're only associating blackness with what they see visibly. They
(12:10):
likely have no relative consciousness of the experiences that black
people face every day, and they don't want to know
those experiences because if they can affirm that their black
quote unquote friend is experiencing in oppressive existence, and they
(12:34):
deem this person actually as a friend, they are morally
obligated by their concept of friend to do something for
this person. But if they remain ignorant, and then they're
exonerating themselves from ever having to do anything to change
the system or change the experiences of that black friend.
But also I learned that a lot of the black
(12:56):
stories are not being told in this documentary. You will
hear from individuals who were our legacies of the roads
would massacre. You will hear from individuals who were part
of the movement for racial integration in the United States
(13:17):
and how for some they were resilient enough to fight,
and for how others it totally changed their life trajectory,
never even completing a college degree even when they had
the opportune do so. You will hear about the residual
effects of racism.
Speaker 1 (13:36):
Hear from those alive today how they had to deal
with it back then.
Speaker 2 (13:41):
You just stayed in your place. You just was black,
and your white folks did what they were wanted to do.
Speaker 4 (13:48):
They feel that they are just were less superior for you.
Speaker 2 (13:53):
So that was just how it was.
Speaker 1 (13:55):
You know, you knew if you can't do this because
you're black. Every one of them living long lives but
not short memories of racism. How many whites were cruel, mean, disrespectful,
the impact will never go away.
Speaker 2 (14:09):
How that racism not only affects the person when the
incident occurs, but it affects that person for years to come,
and it affects how they parent, how they interacting the workplace,
how they show up in their religious institutions. You're gonna
hear about race and racism in an unfiltered way that
(14:31):
you probably haven't heard before, and I am excited to
share it with the world.
Speaker 1 (14:35):
It sounds very exciting, But I'm wondering if that's what
we talk about when we talk about from slavery, the
effects we all feel still to this day.
Speaker 2 (14:46):
It is undeniable that slavery and Jim Crow still have
effects today. One we need to realize that slavery and
Jim Crow was not that long ago. One of my
political science classes, I always asked.
Speaker 4 (15:02):
Them know how long ago was slavery?
Speaker 2 (15:04):
And I always termed, in terms of generations, how many
generations do we have to go back to get back
to slavery? And I say it's no, It's it like
four great great great great grandparents, or is it so many?
And there's always this high, high number. And I always
use myself as an example. I was born in nineteen
(15:24):
eighty five. I am eight of nine children born to
the union of Perry Lewis and Irma Lewis. My mother,
Irma Lewis, was born in nineteen forty five. Her father,
not a great grandfather, which makes of my grandfather only
grand not any greats, was born in eighteen ninety six
and his oldest brother was a slavey. When you think
(15:48):
about it in that context, that means I am literally
one generation and were moved from slavery, and that my
parents grew up in the legacy the realities of Jim
Crow in the Jim Crow South. So it wasn't that
long ago. We're not talking about something that happened hundreds
of years ago. There are about eight million African Americans
(16:11):
alive today who survived the horrors of Jim Crow, So
this isn't something that's that long ago. So though those
effects are still there, because it really wasn't anything that's
far off in the past.
Speaker 1 (16:25):
Doctor Lewis says there are some Blacks who have had
enough of this talk about race. It's in the past.
In fact, they've rather not even discuss it in today's America.
Speaker 4 (16:36):
There is a reality that.
Speaker 2 (16:40):
It's just true for Black Americans, but for all ray
of minoritism, and it is close enough to whiteness, then
I can alleviate the oppression that I experience as a
person of color. This was very heavily present at the
turn of the century when you had Black Americans who
were of lighter pigmentation and they did something called passing
(17:03):
because they had lighter skin tone and not as pronounced features,
they would try to pass as white. The psychology behind
that is that if I can get close enough in
proximity to whiteness, then I improve my existence. And that
is the same through through various studies. That is the
same mindset of black people who to some degree want
(17:28):
to abandon black affiliation for white affiliation. The notions if
I can get close enough to this identity, close enough
to this ex experience of privilege, and I don't face
the oppression that black people are assigned to face in
a racialized society.
Speaker 1 (17:47):
So they're just as much to blame as this.
Speaker 2 (17:49):
Friends, Yes, just as much at fault because by them
not affirming their blackness, they are validating the moral corruptness
that exists under a wide oppressive, racialized system.
Speaker 1 (18:05):
So what are we to do? What's the answer? What
are black people to do? Those of us who understand,
live with it, deal with it, and willing to acknowledge it.
Speaker 2 (18:18):
Well, one we have to be courageous enough to call
it out wherever it exists. One of my favorite historical
pieces of doctor King's Letter from the Birmingham Jail. And
many people psite Doctor King's Letter from the Birmingham Jail,
and they use it in the philosophy courses, in course,
some political theory, history, and even sociology. But few people
(18:43):
know why that letter was written. You see, when doctor
King was incarcerated in Birmingham or protesting without a permit,
many of his evangelical peers and pastors wrote a option
and condemning him.
Speaker 4 (19:01):
For breaking the law.
Speaker 2 (19:02):
Of course, under the jail Christian principles, you are to
obey the laws of the land. And so doctor King's
letter is a direct response to his peers condemning him.
And what he does is he takes a courageous stand
by saying, I indeed consciously broke the law, but I
(19:22):
did so to call out an oppressive system. And even
in this moment, I'm going to call out my peers
and colleagues for hiding behind perverted notions of Christianity in
order that sustain oppression. So what we have to do
is we have to have the courage to call it
out wherever it is. Something I always tell my students
(19:45):
is that racism is prevalent in places that is comfortable,
and by calling it out, we make it an uncomfortable space.
So that's something that that black people should always do
and always have the courage to do, is to call
out oppression, call out of marginalization, and call out outright
(20:05):
racism wherever it exists.
Speaker 1 (20:07):
To make the good trouble.
Speaker 4 (20:09):
Yes, that's right.
Speaker 1 (20:12):
Talk about the upcoming evening of scholars. What is that about?
Speaker 2 (20:16):
So we live in a time where there are constant
efforts to ban diversity are inclusion. There are states that
are in school districts and school boards that are banning
the teaching of African American history and culture and literature.
(20:37):
We're having some of our greatest writers, like twenty Morrison
being removed from from from library shelves, and that needs
to be a if I can dip into the culture
from it, it needs to be a clap back.
Speaker 4 (20:51):
There needs to be.
Speaker 2 (20:52):
Something that says blackness and it's full cultural proudness needs
to be celebrated, It needs to be observed, it needs
to be acknowledged. So this evening is it is literally
entitled black and it's a celebration of black research. We
have some nationally renowned researchers at Southern Gllinois University Atwisville,
(21:17):
and some of their research will be profile and at
that event that will also be the screening or the
premiere of the documentary, and we will have a black
band that will be black speakers.
Speaker 4 (21:32):
We're going to have an evening.
Speaker 2 (21:33):
That that that claps back and shows that that blackness
not only as an area of cultural study, but as
a legitimate academic discipline that confers upon students transferable skills
they can use in the real world. Deserves its place
and it's here to stay.
Speaker 1 (21:53):
Doctor Lewis, How can we learn more?
Speaker 2 (21:56):
Well, you can visit the SIU website on the Political
Science page. There is a full page and description of
the event. There's a link on how to RSVP for
the event. The event is free and open to the public,
and come out and join us. I can guarantee you
it will be an evening that confirms and that legitimizes
(22:23):
the legacy of blackness. The legacy of blackness sometimes is
overshadowed by the oppression that we face, and we do
face oppression. But this evening is about triumph and about
how we have affirmed ourselves even in oppressive institutions like
higher education. And we're going to celebrate that all day
(22:45):
and the date. The date is February the nineteenth. It
will be only campus of Southern Illinois University. It will
start at six in the evening.
Speaker 1 (22:56):
Doctor Timothy Lewis from si U e s Southern Illinois University, Edwardsville.
What an assignment you have breaking down race in the
troubled history of America. I'm Vanessa Tyler Like and subscribe Blackland.
Let me know what you think at Vanessa Tyler one
on Instagram. Remember a new episode drops every Friday.
Ever heard anybody say I have black friends, so I
can't be racist.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
I have a lot of African American friends.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
You might remember that former Virginia Governor Ralph Northam tying
himself up in knots, explaining how a photo of a
person in blackface standing next to another and a KKK
get up, including pointy hood, was discovered in his old
college photos.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
I went to school with, played ball with, and I
suspect I've had as much exposure to people of color
as anybody. It seems to be part of the white
racial script to default this notion of having black friends.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
So you think you have black friends, but do you
really in black Land? And now as a brown person,
you just feel so invisible.
Speaker 3 (00:47):
Where we're from.
Speaker 4 (00:49):
Brothers and sisters. I welcome you to this joyful exaiya.
Speaker 3 (00:52):
We celebrate freedom where we are.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
I know someone heard something and we're going. We the
people means all the people.
Speaker 3 (01:02):
The black information that work presents Blackland. With your host
Vanessa Tyler, the phrase we've all heard before, but I
have black friends makes Professor Timothy Lewis cringe because there
is so much more behind that statement, which he explores
in his a celebration of black research. Here to break
(01:22):
down his findings, is the first black professor to receive
tenure in the political science department at Southern Illinois University, Edwardsville.
Doctor Timothy Lewis, Doctor Lewis, Welcome.
Speaker 4 (01:34):
Good afternoon, and thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
First talk a little about your research. What did you find?
Speaker 2 (01:42):
If I can back up a little bit, and can
I tell you what sparked this research. Yes, so doing
what some people have termed, you know, with the racial awakening,
you know, the protests in twenty twenty, following the death
so RONNERD. Taylor, Amata Aubrey, George Floyd, I was actual
(02:02):
to be on several panels. I was doing panels and
conversations and keynotes weekly basically, and it was during this
time that I really had upfront conversations, particularly with white people,
about you know, how society's institutions, its cultures, and structures
(02:24):
really oppressed black people. And it was in these conversations
that a particular quote from doctor King just kept coming
to my mind.
Speaker 4 (02:37):
About the need for a re education.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
That white people, by their privilege, tend to only know whiteness,
white culture, white norms, and I landed on the phrase
you know, I have black friends, because whenever a white
person is accused of racism or racial ignorance, they defaulted
that to that phrase, you know, I have black friends.
Speaker 1 (03:02):
So it's like black proximity as a defense.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
That's how they asserted. And it happens in a host
of ways, and it happens despite, you know, the achievement
of the person. And in my research, I began with
this story of a waitress named Tabitha Duncan who went
viral back in twenty eighteen, and her im media response was,
(03:28):
you know, I didn't read it, I have black friends.
But we also saw in the height of the presidential
election this year, during the Republican primary, when Nicki Hagley
could not confirm that slavery was actually the cause of
the Civil War, she defaulted to the phrase, of course
(03:48):
I knew that, And she said, follow that up, what
I have black friends. I had black friends growing up.
It is a very talked about thing. We have a
big history in South Carolina. So no matter that the
level of achievement men or pathway in life, it seems
to be part of the white racial script to default
this notion of having black friends.
Speaker 1 (04:07):
So in your research, in your belief we basically in
America have race all wrong and that we should be
re educated. America should be re educated about race. But
whose responsibility is it to re educate about race.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
It's not black people's responsibility to educate white people about
white systems. Black oppression exists because of white institution, structure, systems,
cultural the norms, and it isn't black people's responsibility to
alleviate their own impression. That responsibility falls upon the creators
of the system and the institutions, which are white people.
Speaker 1 (04:49):
Now that President elect Trump has vowed and promises to
kind of excuse the phrase, blow up all the institutions,
So then from that, maybe it is a good thing
for us. Maybe these institutions with its institutionalized racism should
(05:11):
be blown up.
Speaker 2 (05:12):
Maybe this sounds cynical, but I do not trust that
even if they were dismantled, some of these systems, institutions,
that they were replacing with more equitable ones. And we
look at history and we look at the creation of
various institutions in America, whether we're talking about education, health care,
(05:34):
or law enforcement. Every institution was created either to regulate
or control people of color. Or it was created without
people of color at the table. That has been a
consistent pattern throughout history, and I do not believe that
that pattern would be changed or ended, particularly in the
(05:57):
Trump administration.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
DEI becomes such a dirty phrase and so hated. How
did that happen?
Speaker 2 (06:05):
Well, Diversity equity inclusion is not a new concept. As
many people may think the phrase dei or diverse equity
inclusion as a buzzword, it's only about four or five
years old. But what the concepts go all the way
back to the Civil Rights movement, the notion that it
(06:37):
needs to be a greater presence of people of color,
of different people, different backgrounds. Those people need to be included,
and then those people, once included, need to be treated
in a way that it's fair and equitable and in
some ways compensates for the hurt and harm that they
have experience, be at no fault of their own.
Speaker 4 (06:55):
So that those.
Speaker 2 (06:56):
Concepts, those core principles, are not new.
Speaker 4 (07:00):
They became to be a.
Speaker 2 (07:01):
Dirty word and associate with words like woken and things
as really political strategies. There is a fear that because
America is becoming more colored, particularly the increases in uh
Latino or LATINX populations, the increases in black populations in
(07:23):
creating increasing Asian American populations, while simultaneous there are population
decreases among white Americans that as these demographics grow statistically
that that will siphon power away from or white white Americans.
It's something called the white replacement theory, or the greater
(07:47):
replacement theory as some scholars call it. DEI was a
political strategy and a way to prevent that from happening
by making versus equent inclusion bad things, dirty words.
Speaker 4 (08:03):
That was a political ploy as.
Speaker 2 (08:06):
An attempt tonify or mitigate this shift and population that
was observed, which a lot of people associated with the
shift in political power.
Speaker 5 (08:15):
We won the popular vote by records, so nobody can
say that anymore about us.
Speaker 3 (08:20):
Nobody can say.
Speaker 1 (08:21):
That, yet he wins a trifecta, the White House, the House,
in the Senate. How did this even happen?
Speaker 2 (08:31):
But as a political scientist, this election was frustrating, not
necessarily because of the outcome, because the outcome was predictable.
It was frustrating because the narratives that you heard from
the media were somewhere toned down to both historical and
statistical facts. So President Trump did not really make gains
(08:56):
among minorities. It was atiscal tie between what he got
from black men in this election where he got in
past elections. He made minimum gains among the Latino or
LATINX citizens. It wasn't the narrative that you hear from
the media. That is a fact that the media is
(09:19):
over It is overlooking, and that is that the most
consistent predictor of voting behavior is race. Since the passage
of the Civil rights at the nineteen sixty four that
is sixty years ago, the Democratic candidate has never received
(09:40):
a majority of the white vote in no presidential election.
Even with the efficacy of the Obama presidency election in
two thousand and eight, he still did not get more
than fifty percent of the white vote.
Speaker 5 (09:55):
For when we have faced down impossible lots, told we're
not ready, or that we shouldn't try, or that we can't,
generations of Americans have responded with a simple creed that
sums up the spirit of a people. Yes we can,
(10:16):
Yes we can, Yes we can.
Speaker 2 (10:25):
So what that informs us is that technically white Americans,
no matter the state of the economy, the moral altitude,
or saying this election, you know the criminal record of
the candidate, they are going to vote Republican, And in
this particular election, the turnout was just higher. It wasn't
(10:47):
that President Trump was able to dismantleate Democratic Democrat coalition
or even increase substantially his numbers of racially minoritized people.
It was simply that the status quote state, and that
status quote was that white Americans turned out to the post.
What we will see once all boats are counting, is
that it was not that the landslide again that the
(11:10):
media has framed it to be. We will see pretty
consistent outcomes as we've seen for most presidential elections.
Speaker 1 (11:18):
You mentioned a documentary. Would you talk a little bit
about that and what were some of the answers when
you went out and talked to black people.
Speaker 2 (11:29):
The documentary again, it's titled do you Know you Have
Black Friends? And it's a direct question towards white Americans
who will affirm black proximity as a way to generate
themselves of racism or racial ignorance.
Speaker 4 (11:43):
And that there were several things that I.
Speaker 2 (11:45):
Found, I get you to call them big takeaways in
composing this documentary. One that when white people affirm that
they have black friends, they are only associating blackness with
dark skin, rounded nasal cavity, or certain text of hair.
They're only associating blackness with what they see visibly. They
(12:10):
likely have no relative consciousness of the experiences that black
people face every day, and they don't want to know
those experiences because if they can affirm that their black
quote unquote friend is experiencing in oppressive existence, and they
(12:34):
deem this person actually as a friend, they are morally
obligated by their concept of friend to do something for
this person. But if they remain ignorant, and then they're
exonerating themselves from ever having to do anything to change
the system or change the experiences of that black friend.
But also I learned that a lot of the black
(12:56):
stories are not being told in this documentary. You will
hear from individuals who were our legacies of the roads
would massacre. You will hear from individuals who were part
of the movement for racial integration in the United States
(13:17):
and how for some they were resilient enough to fight,
and for how others it totally changed their life trajectory,
never even completing a college degree even when they had
the opportune do so. You will hear about the residual
effects of racism.
Speaker 1 (13:36):
Hear from those alive today how they had to deal
with it back then.
Speaker 2 (13:41):
You just stayed in your place. You just was black,
and your white folks did what they were wanted to do.
Speaker 4 (13:48):
They feel that they are just were less superior for you.
Speaker 2 (13:53):
So that was just how it was.
Speaker 1 (13:55):
You know, you knew if you can't do this because
you're black. Every one of them living long lives but
not short memories of racism. How many whites were cruel, mean, disrespectful,
the impact will never go away.
Speaker 2 (14:09):
How that racism not only affects the person when the
incident occurs, but it affects that person for years to come,
and it affects how they parent, how they interacting the workplace,
how they show up in their religious institutions. You're gonna
hear about race and racism in an unfiltered way that
(14:31):
you probably haven't heard before, and I am excited to
share it with the world.
Speaker 1 (14:35):
It sounds very exciting, But I'm wondering if that's what
we talk about when we talk about from slavery, the
effects we all feel still to this day.
Speaker 2 (14:46):
It is undeniable that slavery and Jim Crow still have
effects today. One we need to realize that slavery and
Jim Crow was not that long ago. One of my
political science classes, I always asked.
Speaker 4 (15:02):
Them know how long ago was slavery?
Speaker 2 (15:04):
And I always termed, in terms of generations, how many
generations do we have to go back to get back
to slavery? And I say it's no, It's it like
four great great great great grandparents, or is it so many?
And there's always this high, high number. And I always
use myself as an example. I was born in nineteen
(15:24):
eighty five. I am eight of nine children born to
the union of Perry Lewis and Irma Lewis. My mother,
Irma Lewis, was born in nineteen forty five. Her father,
not a great grandfather, which makes of my grandfather only
grand not any greats, was born in eighteen ninety six
and his oldest brother was a slavey. When you think
(15:48):
about it in that context, that means I am literally
one generation and were moved from slavery, and that my
parents grew up in the legacy the realities of Jim
Crow in the Jim Crow South. So it wasn't that
long ago. We're not talking about something that happened hundreds
of years ago. There are about eight million African Americans
(16:11):
alive today who survived the horrors of Jim Crow, So
this isn't something that's that long ago. So though those
effects are still there, because it really wasn't anything that's
far off in the past.
Speaker 1 (16:25):
Doctor Lewis says there are some Blacks who have had
enough of this talk about race. It's in the past.
In fact, they've rather not even discuss it in today's America.
Speaker 4 (16:36):
There is a reality that.
Speaker 2 (16:40):
It's just true for Black Americans, but for all ray
of minoritism, and it is close enough to whiteness, then
I can alleviate the oppression that I experience as a
person of color. This was very heavily present at the
turn of the century when you had Black Americans who
were of lighter pigmentation and they did something called passing
(17:03):
because they had lighter skin tone and not as pronounced features,
they would try to pass as white. The psychology behind
that is that if I can get close enough in
proximity to whiteness, then I improve my existence. And that
is the same through through various studies. That is the
same mindset of black people who to some degree want
(17:28):
to abandon black affiliation for white affiliation. The notions if
I can get close enough to this identity, close enough
to this ex experience of privilege, and I don't face
the oppression that black people are assigned to face in
a racialized society.
Speaker 1 (17:47):
So they're just as much to blame as this.
Speaker 2 (17:49):
Friends, Yes, just as much at fault because by them
not affirming their blackness, they are validating the moral corruptness
that exists under a wide oppressive, racialized system.
Speaker 1 (18:05):
So what are we to do? What's the answer? What
are black people to do? Those of us who understand,
live with it, deal with it, and willing to acknowledge it.
Speaker 2 (18:18):
Well, one we have to be courageous enough to call
it out wherever it exists. One of my favorite historical
pieces of doctor King's Letter from the Birmingham Jail. And
many people psite Doctor King's Letter from the Birmingham Jail,
and they use it in the philosophy courses, in course,
some political theory, history, and even sociology. But few people
(18:43):
know why that letter was written. You see, when doctor
King was incarcerated in Birmingham or protesting without a permit,
many of his evangelical peers and pastors wrote a option
and condemning him.
Speaker 4 (19:01):
For breaking the law.
Speaker 2 (19:02):
Of course, under the jail Christian principles, you are to
obey the laws of the land. And so doctor King's
letter is a direct response to his peers condemning him.
And what he does is he takes a courageous stand
by saying, I indeed consciously broke the law, but I
(19:22):
did so to call out an oppressive system. And even
in this moment, I'm going to call out my peers
and colleagues for hiding behind perverted notions of Christianity in
order that sustain oppression. So what we have to do
is we have to have the courage to call it
out wherever it is. Something I always tell my students
(19:45):
is that racism is prevalent in places that is comfortable,
and by calling it out, we make it an uncomfortable space.
So that's something that that black people should always do
and always have the courage to do, is to call
out oppression, call out of marginalization, and call out outright
(20:05):
racism wherever it exists.
Speaker 1 (20:07):
To make the good trouble.
Speaker 4 (20:09):
Yes, that's right.
Speaker 1 (20:12):
Talk about the upcoming evening of scholars. What is that about?
Speaker 2 (20:16):
So we live in a time where there are constant
efforts to ban diversity are inclusion. There are states that
are in school districts and school boards that are banning
the teaching of African American history and culture and literature.
(20:37):
We're having some of our greatest writers, like twenty Morrison
being removed from from from library shelves, and that needs
to be a if I can dip into the culture
from it, it needs to be a clap back.
Speaker 4 (20:51):
There needs to be.
Speaker 2 (20:52):
Something that says blackness and it's full cultural proudness needs
to be celebrated, It needs to be observed, it needs
to be acknowledged. So this evening is it is literally
entitled black and it's a celebration of black research. We
have some nationally renowned researchers at Southern Gllinois University Atwisville,
(21:17):
and some of their research will be profile and at
that event that will also be the screening or the
premiere of the documentary, and we will have a black
band that will be black speakers.
Speaker 4 (21:32):
We're going to have an evening.
Speaker 2 (21:33):
That that that claps back and shows that that blackness
not only as an area of cultural study, but as
a legitimate academic discipline that confers upon students transferable skills
they can use in the real world. Deserves its place
and it's here to stay.
Speaker 1 (21:53):
Doctor Lewis, How can we learn more?
Speaker 2 (21:56):
Well, you can visit the SIU website on the Political
Science page. There is a full page and description of
the event. There's a link on how to RSVP for
the event. The event is free and open to the public,
and come out and join us. I can guarantee you
it will be an evening that confirms and that legitimizes
(22:23):
the legacy of blackness. The legacy of blackness sometimes is
overshadowed by the oppression that we face, and we do
face oppression. But this evening is about triumph and about
how we have affirmed ourselves even in oppressive institutions like
higher education. And we're going to celebrate that all day
(22:45):
and the date. The date is February the nineteenth. It
will be only campus of Southern Illinois University. It will
start at six in the evening.
Speaker 1 (22:56):
Doctor Timothy Lewis from si U e s Southern Illinois University, Edwardsville.
What an assignment you have breaking down race in the
troubled history of America. I'm Vanessa Tyler Like and subscribe Blackland.
Let me know what you think at Vanessa Tyler one
on Instagram. Remember a new episode drops every Friday.
Host
Vanessa Tyler
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
The Bobby Bones Show
Listen to 'The Bobby Bones Show' by downloading the daily full replay.