August 22, 2025 • 11 mins
Dr. Vanessa Tyler has a conversation with Iva Wilson, founder of Ginger Noir: The Black Redhead Project. Iva says some of the project goals include educating people about the science behind Black people with red hair, increase awareness and community of Black people with red hair and to provide a platform for people to share stories and celebrate this unique trait.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
When some think of a red head, classic TV show
I Love Lucy comes to mind.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
He wants delight.
Speaker 3 (00:06):
The color of your hair is natural?
Speaker 4 (00:10):
Oh well, certainly tell them a natural and my father
and my mother both had red hair.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
Actress Lucy O Ball may have dyed her hair red reportedly,
so she would stand out on TV. Real red heads
do stand out, especially if they're black.
Speaker 3 (00:26):
You know, I'm a black woman, and I'm a black
woman with red hair.
Speaker 1 (00:29):
Black people with red hair the subject of an upcoming
documentary we hear from the creator and producer Only in
black Land. When we think of red heads, depending on
your age, maybe Lucy comes to mind, or how about
Prince Harry? What about black red heads? One of our
(00:51):
most iconic Malcolm X. The number one domestic problem in
America is the race problem.
Speaker 4 (00:57):
That it is almost impossible to solve it.
Speaker 1 (00:59):
It's almost possible to give justice to negroes. But there
are plenty of others, and Iva Wilson would love to
meet them all. She is a redhead and the creator
of Ginger Noir, the Black Redhead Project. Iva welcome, Thank you,
how are you? I'm great? Let's talk about black redheads.
(01:21):
What have you learned? So far about this unique group
of people.
Speaker 3 (01:24):
I'm meeting so many redheads who looked like me. As
a young child, my hair was fire red, and I'm
meeting people whose hair has changed over time or is
still fire red.
Speaker 1 (01:40):
Iva Wilson is a born black redhead, and she's a twin.
I have a fraternal twin sister who has black hair.
She and I stood out because we were the twins
in the neighborhood. And then I was the one with
the fire red hair.
Speaker 3 (01:55):
And everyone would stop and ask my mom did she
dye my hair? My mom would respond, why would I
die baby's hair? And one and not the other. Until
the neighborhood people, you know, became accustomed to who we
were and knew who we were. Of course, she was
teased maybe a carrot top Annie was the other thing
(02:16):
that people would say. And I associated that with white
characters and I didn't want I didn't feel comfortable with that.
I didn't wear makeup. I was pale. You know, I
was young. So as I got older, I began to
understand how to enhance my beauty and the features that
God gave me. I embraced my freckles, and I embraced
(02:37):
my red hair.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
Embraced it and explored it. Ginger Noir. The Black Redhead
Project is not only an open call to speak to
black redheads, but the mission is to explore the origins
of red hair.
Speaker 3 (02:51):
But in my research, I hope to find out and
you know, find more black redheads on the continent of
Africa and exactly where the gene comes from. The studies
that I'm reading says that it's a Northern European gene. However,
you know, I wonder how you know that Northern European
(03:12):
gene produces color. You know, the African you know, people
from the diaspora can produce color. So like to know
more about it and find out how this actually shows
up and where it comes from. And what I've learned
over the years is that, well recently, that there's a
gene that produces the red hair and drives the balance
(03:37):
between the reddish and the dark pigments that show up
in our hair. And that gene is called the melanocortin
one receptor. And if you have more feel melanin in
your hair, you have more red highlights. However, you can
have more eu melanin in your hair that over time
will allow your hair to get darker.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
Lately, there has been this odd social media trend.
Speaker 4 (04:03):
When I first realized that there is an intersectionality between
redheads and black people.
Speaker 1 (04:07):
That's the voice of a white redhead. He's speaking along
with many others on social media about the connection between
white redheads and black people.
Speaker 4 (04:16):
From that moment, I have not been able to shake
that realization that to some people, another, whether it be
a white person with red hair or a black person,
will always be another.
Speaker 1 (04:32):
They say they are sometimes treated differently too, but.
Speaker 4 (04:36):
It's undeniable that there are actual overlaps in the red
hair community, you know, historically as well and a black community.
And I think that's why we're so excited today to
kind of realize that, like, there are populations that have
and will understand very similar life trajectories and experiences.
Speaker 1 (04:55):
So similar even though they're white. They say, the curious
want to touch their too.
Speaker 2 (05:01):
In the same way, certain types of white people have
to let you know that they have black friends, that
they've interacted with a black person before they do the
same thing with redhead. They have to tell me that
their cousin three times removed it was a redhead. There
was someone in their family that was a redhead. They
knew a redhead, they had a redhead branch. I knew
a redhead once that I hated, But you've changed my
entire opinion on all redheads. That kind of dialogue fascinating.
Speaker 1 (05:20):
Number Two.
Speaker 2 (05:20):
In the same way white people will reach out and
touch your hair without asking for permission, they do the
same thing with redheads.
Speaker 1 (05:26):
I have a wilson of Ginger Noir, the Black Redhead Project,
is aware of the online chatter, but her mission is
on the black people with red hair.
Speaker 3 (05:36):
I didn't jump on the trend simply because what I
want to focus on is that there are black redheads
and that we deserved to be seen and we are rare.
I want to focus on the ambiguity of our heritage
and that every redhead isn't fair skin, and as I mentioned,
(05:59):
sometimes the hair darkens over time, but nonetheless we are
red heads. And I think what people like is that
I'm educating people about the gene and I am celebrating
out us as black people who have been overlooked.
Speaker 1 (06:17):
Do you have anybody in your family in line with
red hair?
Speaker 3 (06:20):
I do, and my cousin, a few cousins, and they
happen to be on my father's side. And one of
my cousins is brown skin and her hair was fire red,
and as she got older, the eumelanin showed up, so
her hair appears darker, but she still has the fiery
the red undertone. What I learned is that both parents
(06:42):
must carry the gene, and you don't know until you
know you have that child with red hair. In my conversation,
so many people walked up to me and said, my
grandmother had red hair. My father had red hair and
it got dark, and my mother had red hair. And
so that leads me to believe it is a strong gene,
maybe in you know, from Africa. So many people have it.
(07:02):
But as I mentioned, between the two melanated genes, you know,
we produce more. The hair will become darker. If you
have less, the hair remains lighter. So I do have
a cousin who has red hair, first cousin, and then
also another cousin. A first cousin's child was born red
(07:25):
with red hair, so you know, that's how it shows
up on my dad's side. So I didn't I didn't
participate in the trend. I looked at it just briefly,
but I moved on because again, JINGI noir like black
red heads, We're not a trend. We're going to be here.
You know, as I get older, my hair is changing.
(07:46):
But I want our uniqueness to be recognized as as
you know, power, and I want our presence to be seen.
So my page focuses on black redheads through poet tree,
through just you know, uplifting words to remind anyone, any
(08:07):
young black redhead that they are beautiful, that they are unique.
And also to you know, people my age who are
tapping in applauding and saying yes, I wish I had
this representation, thank you. So that is my goal. I
didn't want to jump on the white redheads are black trend.
Speaker 1 (08:30):
Do you know how many? What percentage I should ask
of black people have red hair?
Speaker 3 (08:36):
So it is the rarest color in the world, and
so only about two percent globally has naturally red hair,
making black redheads a smaller percentage.
Speaker 1 (08:48):
Now when will this project be out and what can
we expect to see in it?
Speaker 3 (08:52):
The Redhead Project is a series of events that I'm
bringing people together to document our stories in our everyday lives.
So the goal is to document meet new Redheads move
from city to city, and also incorporate a black geneticist
(09:13):
so that again the facts and the questions about the
gene can be answered with credibility. So I foresee the
project culminating in the next year. I do have some
things that are in line. Our next event will be
our meetup will be in December, which we will take
(09:36):
the New York Holiday Nostalgic Train and participate in the
Holiday train ride. There. We will continue to spread awareness
so as I grow, I'll continue to document. I want
to hear from more people. Someone asked me if I
were to create Mount rushmore of Redheads, who would they
be with the top five or four b of course
(09:59):
Malcolm n X red Fox, and I mentioned I'm hip
hop so I'm going to throw DJ red Alert in there,
and I'm still searching for the last one.
Speaker 1 (10:12):
How can we follow you?
Speaker 3 (10:14):
So yes, you can follow ging Noir on my website
at www dot jingin Noir brp dot com. And I'm
also on Instagram at gingin nowar b RP. And those
are the two sites that I'm visible in right now.
And I'm looking forward to the community growing. There will
(10:37):
be Ginger Noir and Friends events in which you can
come out and you know, meet more Gingers and hear
from them yourself, or experience our time together. And as
I mentioned, the next one is in December. The details
will be forthcoming on our social media and the website.
Speaker 1 (10:57):
I'm A Wilson, producer of ginger Neewa, The Black Redhead Project.
Thank you for telling us all about the beauty of
our people in all shades.
Speaker 3 (11:07):
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (11:09):
I'm Vanessa Tyler. Join me for a new episode of
black Land every week.
When some think of a red head, classic TV show
I Love Lucy comes to mind.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
He wants delight.
Speaker 3 (00:06):
The color of your hair is natural?
Speaker 4 (00:10):
Oh well, certainly tell them a natural and my father
and my mother both had red hair.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
Actress Lucy O Ball may have dyed her hair red reportedly,
so she would stand out on TV. Real red heads
do stand out, especially if they're black.
Speaker 3 (00:26):
You know, I'm a black woman, and I'm a black
woman with red hair.
Speaker 1 (00:29):
Black people with red hair the subject of an upcoming
documentary we hear from the creator and producer Only in
black Land. When we think of red heads, depending on
your age, maybe Lucy comes to mind, or how about
Prince Harry? What about black red heads? One of our
(00:51):
most iconic Malcolm X. The number one domestic problem in
America is the race problem.
Speaker 4 (00:57):
That it is almost impossible to solve it.
Speaker 1 (00:59):
It's almost possible to give justice to negroes. But there
are plenty of others, and Iva Wilson would love to
meet them all. She is a redhead and the creator
of Ginger Noir, the Black Redhead Project. Iva welcome, Thank you,
how are you? I'm great? Let's talk about black redheads.
(01:21):
What have you learned? So far about this unique group
of people.
Speaker 3 (01:24):
I'm meeting so many redheads who looked like me. As
a young child, my hair was fire red, and I'm
meeting people whose hair has changed over time or is
still fire red.
Speaker 1 (01:40):
Iva Wilson is a born black redhead, and she's a twin.
I have a fraternal twin sister who has black hair.
She and I stood out because we were the twins
in the neighborhood. And then I was the one with
the fire red hair.
Speaker 3 (01:55):
And everyone would stop and ask my mom did she
dye my hair? My mom would respond, why would I
die baby's hair? And one and not the other. Until
the neighborhood people, you know, became accustomed to who we
were and knew who we were. Of course, she was
teased maybe a carrot top Annie was the other thing
(02:16):
that people would say. And I associated that with white
characters and I didn't want I didn't feel comfortable with that.
I didn't wear makeup. I was pale. You know, I
was young. So as I got older, I began to
understand how to enhance my beauty and the features that
God gave me. I embraced my freckles, and I embraced
(02:37):
my red hair.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
Embraced it and explored it. Ginger Noir. The Black Redhead
Project is not only an open call to speak to
black redheads, but the mission is to explore the origins
of red hair.
Speaker 3 (02:51):
But in my research, I hope to find out and
you know, find more black redheads on the continent of
Africa and exactly where the gene comes from. The studies
that I'm reading says that it's a Northern European gene. However,
you know, I wonder how you know that Northern European
(03:12):
gene produces color. You know, the African you know, people
from the diaspora can produce color. So like to know
more about it and find out how this actually shows
up and where it comes from. And what I've learned
over the years is that, well recently, that there's a
gene that produces the red hair and drives the balance
(03:37):
between the reddish and the dark pigments that show up
in our hair. And that gene is called the melanocortin
one receptor. And if you have more feel melanin in
your hair, you have more red highlights. However, you can
have more eu melanin in your hair that over time
will allow your hair to get darker.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
Lately, there has been this odd social media trend.
Speaker 4 (04:03):
When I first realized that there is an intersectionality between
redheads and black people.
Speaker 1 (04:07):
That's the voice of a white redhead. He's speaking along
with many others on social media about the connection between
white redheads and black people.
Speaker 4 (04:16):
From that moment, I have not been able to shake
that realization that to some people, another, whether it be
a white person with red hair or a black person,
will always be another.
Speaker 1 (04:32):
They say they are sometimes treated differently too, but.
Speaker 4 (04:36):
It's undeniable that there are actual overlaps in the red
hair community, you know, historically as well and a black community.
And I think that's why we're so excited today to
kind of realize that, like, there are populations that have
and will understand very similar life trajectories and experiences.
Speaker 1 (04:55):
So similar even though they're white. They say, the curious
want to touch their too.
Speaker 2 (05:01):
In the same way, certain types of white people have
to let you know that they have black friends, that
they've interacted with a black person before they do the
same thing with redhead. They have to tell me that
their cousin three times removed it was a redhead. There
was someone in their family that was a redhead. They
knew a redhead, they had a redhead branch. I knew
a redhead once that I hated, But you've changed my
entire opinion on all redheads. That kind of dialogue fascinating.
Speaker 1 (05:20):
Number Two.
Speaker 2 (05:20):
In the same way white people will reach out and
touch your hair without asking for permission, they do the
same thing with redheads.
Speaker 1 (05:26):
I have a wilson of Ginger Noir, the Black Redhead Project,
is aware of the online chatter, but her mission is
on the black people with red hair.
Speaker 3 (05:36):
I didn't jump on the trend simply because what I
want to focus on is that there are black redheads
and that we deserved to be seen and we are rare.
I want to focus on the ambiguity of our heritage
and that every redhead isn't fair skin, and as I mentioned,
(05:59):
sometimes the hair darkens over time, but nonetheless we are
red heads. And I think what people like is that
I'm educating people about the gene and I am celebrating
out us as black people who have been overlooked.
Speaker 1 (06:17):
Do you have anybody in your family in line with
red hair?
Speaker 3 (06:20):
I do, and my cousin, a few cousins, and they
happen to be on my father's side. And one of
my cousins is brown skin and her hair was fire red,
and as she got older, the eumelanin showed up, so
her hair appears darker, but she still has the fiery
the red undertone. What I learned is that both parents
(06:42):
must carry the gene, and you don't know until you
know you have that child with red hair. In my conversation,
so many people walked up to me and said, my
grandmother had red hair. My father had red hair and
it got dark, and my mother had red hair. And
so that leads me to believe it is a strong gene,
maybe in you know, from Africa. So many people have it.
(07:02):
But as I mentioned, between the two melanated genes, you know,
we produce more. The hair will become darker. If you
have less, the hair remains lighter. So I do have
a cousin who has red hair, first cousin, and then
also another cousin. A first cousin's child was born red
(07:25):
with red hair, so you know, that's how it shows
up on my dad's side. So I didn't I didn't
participate in the trend. I looked at it just briefly,
but I moved on because again, JINGI noir like black
red heads, We're not a trend. We're going to be here.
You know, as I get older, my hair is changing.
(07:46):
But I want our uniqueness to be recognized as as
you know, power, and I want our presence to be seen.
So my page focuses on black redheads through poet tree,
through just you know, uplifting words to remind anyone, any
(08:07):
young black redhead that they are beautiful, that they are unique.
And also to you know, people my age who are
tapping in applauding and saying yes, I wish I had
this representation, thank you. So that is my goal. I
didn't want to jump on the white redheads are black trend.
Speaker 1 (08:30):
Do you know how many? What percentage I should ask
of black people have red hair?
Speaker 3 (08:36):
So it is the rarest color in the world, and
so only about two percent globally has naturally red hair,
making black redheads a smaller percentage.
Speaker 1 (08:48):
Now when will this project be out and what can
we expect to see in it?
Speaker 3 (08:52):
The Redhead Project is a series of events that I'm
bringing people together to document our stories in our everyday lives.
So the goal is to document meet new Redheads move
from city to city, and also incorporate a black geneticist
(09:13):
so that again the facts and the questions about the
gene can be answered with credibility. So I foresee the
project culminating in the next year. I do have some
things that are in line. Our next event will be
our meetup will be in December, which we will take
(09:36):
the New York Holiday Nostalgic Train and participate in the
Holiday train ride. There. We will continue to spread awareness
so as I grow, I'll continue to document. I want
to hear from more people. Someone asked me if I
were to create Mount rushmore of Redheads, who would they
be with the top five or four b of course
(09:59):
Malcolm n X red Fox, and I mentioned I'm hip
hop so I'm going to throw DJ red Alert in there,
and I'm still searching for the last one.
Speaker 1 (10:12):
How can we follow you?
Speaker 3 (10:14):
So yes, you can follow ging Noir on my website
at www dot jingin Noir brp dot com. And I'm
also on Instagram at gingin nowar b RP. And those
are the two sites that I'm visible in right now.
And I'm looking forward to the community growing. There will
(10:37):
be Ginger Noir and Friends events in which you can
come out and you know, meet more Gingers and hear
from them yourself, or experience our time together. And as
I mentioned, the next one is in December. The details
will be forthcoming on our social media and the website.
Speaker 1 (10:57):
I'm A Wilson, producer of ginger Neewa, The Black Redhead Project.
Thank you for telling us all about the beauty of
our people in all shades.
Speaker 3 (11:07):
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (11:09):
I'm Vanessa Tyler. Join me for a new episode of
black Land every week.
Host
Vanessa Tyler
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