December 16, 2025 • 45 mins
On this episode of Black Tech Green Money, we strip away the packaging to reveal the hard science and high-stakes finance powering the Black hair revolution. The days of "kitchen chemists" are evolving into an era of AI-driven diagnostics and nine-figure exits. Will Lucas sits down with the architects of this shift to answer the trillion-dollar question: Can you scale a culturally rooted brand without losing its soul?
We hear from industry titans Courtney Adeleye (The Mane Choice) and Monique Rodriguez (Mielle Organics) on navigating the controversial waters of acquisition and what it really takes to transition from a community favorite to a global powerhouse. Meanwhile, a new guard of tech-founders—Candace Mitchell (Myavana) and Dr. Tiffany St. Bernard (HairDays)—explain how they are training algorithms to diagnose scalp health and personalize care. And, Ciara Imani May (Rebundle) breaks down the chemistry of comfort, revealing how banana fiber is disrupting the toxic synthetic hair market. This is the business of beauty, engineered.
Follow Will Lucas on Instagram at @willlucas
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
When you look at the field of black women and
men who start off in beauty, health wellness companies, do
you think they go hard enough? Like where what keeps
them from achieving the type of level of success you've
achieved in this industry generally speaking?
Speaker 2 (00:16):
Do I think they go hard enough? I would have
to Unfortunately, I would have to say no. I think
for some reason, people think that when you operate on
an average level, or if you're able to excel by
just giving average. I think sometimes people think that's enough.
But in order to really scale something and take it
(00:36):
to the next level, it is going to require bloods
what in tears that I've come to the conclusion most
people are not willing willing to do, you know, or
they think that giving normal or average is okay and
it's not.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
What are some of those mistakes that people cut corners
on that keep them from like what are some of
the typical things you see?
Speaker 2 (01:00):
I think some of the typical things just the initiative.
You know, when I say you have to layer things on,
I mean you have to be from a social perspective,
you have to be you know, you have to.
Speaker 3 (01:13):
Put yourself out there.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
From a personal perspective, run your personal social media as
if it was a business, with strategy and timing and
when and professionalism.
Speaker 3 (01:23):
And then on the flip side, you have the business,
you have to do the exact same way. So there's
a lot of bells and whistles that goes along.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
With it that can be achieved. But you just can't
cut corners in regards to like the time. It's twenty
four hours a day, I have never since I've been
in business. But they do not disturb.
Speaker 3 (01:41):
I'm out of town my email, you know what I mean,
I just.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
Never have I'm going to respond to it or you know,
I'm gonna get to it a little bit later.
Speaker 3 (01:51):
But it's just NonStop.
Speaker 4 (01:53):
It's always, it's continuous. Now.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
I love that you talked about the personal input, like
their personal profiles and the CET because I wanted to know,
how do you build a sellable asset, a sellable brand
without becoming so core to it that if you're not
the face of it any longer, it no longer works.
Speaker 5 (02:10):
How do you do that?
Speaker 3 (02:11):
You got to look at the bigger picture.
Speaker 2 (02:13):
I think for me it was always about building a business,
building businesses and have an.
Speaker 3 (02:19):
Ability to actually scale them, you know, So for.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
Me, when I work on a project, you know, I
never get into it like, Okay, I'm about to build
this thing to sell.
Speaker 3 (02:29):
But to be honest, this is how big business goes.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
Like there's companies that's created strategically how do we position
this thing to sell? But I think for a lot
of people are entrepreneurs, it really doesn't work that way
because you have to attach yourself from a passion perspective.
Speaker 3 (02:46):
And if you're constantly thinking, I'm going to sell it one.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
Day, it's not going to necessarily do what you wanted
to do, you know what I mean. So you have
to keep your eye on the prize, which is being
passionate about what it is that you're working on, and
just again just give it, give it your all.
Speaker 1 (03:02):
Is direct to consumer a better opportunity these days to
think about, like what is the process like to get
into retail? Like so many times you hear companies who
spend thousands of dollars getting booths at conventions and traveling
the shows to you know, do the Dog and Pony Show.
How is it really accomplished to get into retail? Like
how do you set yourself apart? When you got of
(03:23):
the brand?
Speaker 3 (03:23):
I think the most.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
The best way to think about getting into retail is
to not think about getting into retail.
Speaker 5 (03:29):
Okay, if you start.
Speaker 2 (03:30):
Your business and you're constantly thinking what can I do
to solely get into retail, retailers are looking for businesses
who are actually popping outside.
Speaker 3 (03:40):
Of retail, so you have to think about it. These
are regular people, these buyers. There are people just like
you and me. They're taking a chance on you. This
is their job.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
So if you have not shown that you can succeed
outside of retail, because for some reason, people think that
when you get on the shelf, oh my god, non,
the retail is going to take off. They go to
advertise for you. You have to drive your own business. So
if you can't survive outside of retail, you won't be
able to survive inside. So if you treat your e
(04:11):
commerce website as if it was a legit retail resources, strategy,
finding a team, how to build it, scaling it, making
an assessment, it's easy to get into retail. They know
who you are, The demand is there, people are talking
about it. But if you think about it a little
bit less and concentrate on your brand, on the growth
(04:33):
of your company, then retail is going to be inevitable.
It's almost like a DJ. If you got a hot song,
he gonna play it, you know what I mean. Look,
if it's hot, it's hot. So you have to focus
on making your brand that hot that once the retailer
hear it, it's automatic, like you're coming in here automatically,
you know, because we've heard about this brand.
Speaker 3 (04:51):
The customers are calling.
Speaker 1 (04:52):
No, we're going to come back to the main choice.
But I do want to talk about you've got a
master class now, and you're teaching people, you know, all
across the CpG, particularly maybe health and hair and et cetera,
how to do this. What can you give me, like
the elevator pitch for this master class and what people
get out of it?
Speaker 3 (05:10):
I would say what they get out of is that
one on one giving you what.
Speaker 2 (05:16):
You need that that's basically different from the next person.
I think it was hard for me to say, let
me pre record this stuff and just like sell some
type of master class. But everybody needs something that's different,
something that's customized. I work with people who have no
idea how to operate social media. I work with people
who have no idea what the EI in an entity.
(05:38):
Forming an entity is I work with people who have
no concept at all of a business. I work with
people who have sold over a million dollars. So it's
hard for me to pre record something to say, well,
this is a one size spit off success. It's not
a one size spit off when you look at the
root that journey. Every journey is going to be a
little bit different. And the only way that I'm able
(05:59):
to do it's by me physically sitting down, talking and
ask asking those questions individually, because the responses is going
to change.
Speaker 3 (06:08):
It's going to be different across the board.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
And I mentioned you grew up in Detroit, and I
think about the work that you've done based on your success,
like the philanthropy work that you getting involved in. You know,
you started to pay my bill program. How much of
you know, the work that you do today speaks to
where you come from, like being from Detroit, And because
I talk about this often, being from the Midwest, you know,
forty five minutes away from where you grew up, we
(06:32):
were so heavily inundated with the manufacturing and automotive and
et cetera. And at least in Toledo, maybe in Detroit,
it was different. We didn't have that entrepreneurial spirit you know,
percolating around us. But the people who were successful were
successful because they worked at GM or G or et cetera.
How how do you see your role as you know,
(06:54):
a role model to you know, and the giving that
you do as impactful for people who want to want
to have a kind of success that you've achieved.
Speaker 2 (07:04):
I would definitely say, you know, one thing about you know,
being from Detroit, even if we didn't have what we
considered like that traditional you know, entrepreneurial leadership, what we
did have and what we continuously have, and I think
that's the same thing where you're from.
Speaker 3 (07:19):
Is that hustle.
Speaker 2 (07:20):
At the end of the day, we don't find a
way to make ends meet, we're don't find a way
to feed our family, you know. And I know for
sure my foundation being from Detroit and just not giving
up knowing that there's other opportunities that this door says, uh,
it's closed, or if someone says no, there's.
Speaker 3 (07:40):
Another opportunity out there.
Speaker 2 (07:41):
So I can't do it here, but I can go
around you and find someone else. So I definitely believe,
you know, having that that that hustle that I grew
up in definitely help achieve to kind of you know
where I am today.
Speaker 1 (07:56):
You know, I think there's something there, and I don't
have a question mind it. I want to say that
I think there's something to that, because you know, if
you like research, like scientists scientifically.
Speaker 5 (08:04):
About hair, it's like they call it dead follows.
Speaker 1 (08:07):
It's like it's not really like a nerve in it, right,
And so you like your hair, you don't feel it
when it gets cut, that scientists will tell you, But
I really I have a lot of hair number one,
and I can feel something when my hair is cut,
and so I don't know what that is or if
I said spiritual or neurological. I don't know how to
define that. But the fact that people say, you know, well,
(08:27):
it's just hair and you can cut it, and it's
like it doesn't mean anything to you to your point
about confidence, like it's more than just you know, a
beauty thing, or it's more than just you know in
that way. But I do feel like there's something that
I don't know if you have anything to answer that.
I didn't really have a question, but I do feel
like there's something more to it. Than just something sitting
on top of my head.
Speaker 6 (08:46):
Yeah, and many cultures your hair is like it's part
of your spirituality or ritual or even religion. And I
definitely think there's a lot of power in your hair
and it definitely tied to how you feel about yourself.
Speaker 4 (09:01):
Right, you look good, you feel good.
Speaker 6 (09:02):
I I think also here is also an area for creativity,
and so what looks this one is?
Speaker 4 (09:12):
You know, it.
Speaker 6 (09:13):
Allows us to like empower ourselves through creative like, hey,
my hair's turquoise because I love for example.
Speaker 5 (09:20):
I love it.
Speaker 1 (09:21):
So so when you get an idea for an app
like this, how do you start off?
Speaker 5 (09:26):
So you like, do you.
Speaker 1 (09:28):
Automatically think I need to go raise money? Do you
automatically think I need I need to go learn how
to code?
Speaker 5 (09:33):
Why? What is what are the first steps you take?
Speaker 1 (09:35):
Because I'm imagining because I did not read that you
were an engineer. I mean that's you're a scientist, and
so so talk to me about how do you how
do you get started in this way?
Speaker 4 (09:45):
Yeah?
Speaker 6 (09:46):
So, actually the reason why my engineer is I was
really passionate about solving. Like I said, I'm interested in
big problems that are overlooked and I was really interested
in building technology, and when I would talk to investors
that like, you're not engineer, so that fine, of give
a pha engineering, you can't tell me that. The journey,
I realized that in building a business you really need
(10:08):
a team, and so really you should really reflect on
your background and where your strengths are and just figure
out where, like depending on what you're building, what the
weaknesses are, and fill.
Speaker 4 (10:18):
Your team with those weaknesses.
Speaker 6 (10:20):
So like, holistically, you guys are rock solid in all
the errors that are required to build your business. But
to answer a question about how do you start, first
step always should be customer discovery.
Speaker 4 (10:32):
One of the number one reasons. I think it's like
number two.
Speaker 6 (10:36):
So I think number one reasons most businesses fail is
because they run out of money. Number two is because
they don't have customers. But I would argue the reason
that they don't have they run out of money is
because they're selling to they don't have customer enough customers.
So I really feel like the number one issue really
is you're building. Oftentimes people have these really amazing ideas
and sometimes they may come from like my self, founder
(10:58):
story or journey, but it may be that it really
doesn't happen to enough people that has a burning issue
or problem that they want to pay for. And so
customer discovery is the first step. And so customer discovery
is basically going out.
Speaker 4 (11:12):
And talking to your potential customer.
Speaker 6 (11:14):
And it's not asking them what your idea is or
telling what your ideas and asking for their feedback and
the idea.
Speaker 4 (11:20):
That's the second third phase of customer discovery process. It's
really about understanding.
Speaker 6 (11:25):
Their problems and listening for are they saying what you
think like your idea is or like coming somewhere close
to that, right, So really listening to the customer and
understanding what their problems are and building for that instead
of building and they will come.
Speaker 4 (11:39):
That works sometimes if you're lucky. Nine times out of
ten it does not work.
Speaker 1 (11:46):
So talk to me because I hear you. I want
to reiterate with you just said. It's not about telling
them what your ideas and asking them what they think.
Is really trying to dig into what their problems are
and what maybe they be doing today to solve those problems.
So so many entrepreneurs during that process can't help themselves
but to talk about.
Speaker 5 (12:06):
Their idea and their solutions.
Speaker 1 (12:07):
So how do you frame those questions to ensure that
you're not taining the responses that you're getting.
Speaker 6 (12:13):
Yeah, so a good place to start is open ended questions.
So if I was starting here days over today again,
I may ask people like, hey, tell me about your
your hair, Like, do you face any problems or challenges?
Speaker 4 (12:30):
What are the number one.
Speaker 6 (12:31):
Things that you wish that you could solve? I would
also add that people are really good at telling the
problems with not necessarily solutions. So people may come up
with cool ideas, but oftentimes the ideas that come up
with may not even be things that they would use themselves.
Do You have to be careful with that when you're
asking people for feedback, because they'll come up with some
really cool ideas and then you ask them would you
(12:53):
use that? And they're like, maybe sounds cool, but in
reality it's just a cool idea, not something that they
would you really used.
Speaker 4 (13:01):
So there's a lot of.
Speaker 6 (13:01):
Bias there in feedback. So just listen to them talking
about their story and you have to extrapolate or figure
out what they really mean, Like we between the lines, So.
Speaker 1 (13:11):
How did you come to a place where you knew
that people would pay for this? Because It's one thing
to say, hey, I have a conditioner for you. It's
another thing to say, hey, I have an educational tool
that actually helps you track to find the conditioner. How
do you get to a place that you knew they
would pull out their wallet?
Speaker 6 (13:27):
Yeah, so I've I personally and maybe hundreds and of women.
Speaker 4 (13:34):
Around their problems and concerns and so on.
Speaker 6 (13:37):
So that's kind of through the customer discovery process, I
realize that we have something here that we're building. So yeah,
so then we push forward with the development process.
Speaker 5 (13:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:48):
So there was this quote I found you were doing
another interview, and I'm going.
Speaker 5 (13:52):
To tell you what you said and have a question.
You said.
Speaker 1 (13:57):
You said, there's a classic inventor's mistake of being so
caught up in problem solving that you take for granted
that the way your solution is built and the way
your customer may find it most useful may be slightly different.
So many of us, you remember saying that. First of all,
so many of us start off in business because we
(14:19):
have an idea that we just know.
Speaker 5 (14:21):
Will work, or we assume it will work in the marketplace.
Speaker 1 (14:24):
And what you're saying is, you know, often we're wrong
and So how do.
Speaker 5 (14:29):
We ensure that we avoid that trap.
Speaker 1 (14:33):
Of being so romantic about the idea, because what will
happened to your point about customer discovery is we'll get
so romantic.
Speaker 5 (14:39):
About our ideas, will.
Speaker 1 (14:42):
Taint our questions in a way to get the answers
that we want.
Speaker 6 (14:45):
Yes, we will ask leading questions, and when you ask
the question, we always hear what you want to hear.
Speaker 4 (14:51):
Always.
Speaker 6 (14:53):
I mean, I tie oftentimes you use like dating analogies,
but I think it also happens in like the right.
Speaker 4 (15:00):
Oftentimes you're like, does he really like me? Does she
really like me? Do they really like me?
Speaker 6 (15:04):
And you everything they do, you're kind of wrapping around
this fantasy of them loving you or wanting to be
with you, But they're telling you through their actions, through
their feedback, through everything, that they're not interested. But you
really want them to say yes, right, or really want
them to be with you. That happens in business too, right.
It's just a human nature that we want people we
(15:25):
want to be right, and it's not necessarily about always
about ego.
Speaker 4 (15:28):
It's about like we're so passionate about what we're doing,
we don't want to be wrong right.
Speaker 6 (15:33):
Well, in business, and especially if you're building a high
tech adventure, you have to be okay with realizing that
you're wrong and pivoting and doing that quickly.
Speaker 1 (15:43):
So I log into the app the first time, talk
to me about some of the questions you ask or
things you ask me to do to help develop a
profile for myself.
Speaker 6 (15:52):
Yeah, so today we're asking a lot about your symptoms
and concerns. So when you log in, and of course
you cut your profile, and now you could also log
into social and then once you're in the app, we're
asking about your symptoms, concerns, and goals, and then we're
curating our educational insights based on that. Later this year,
(16:13):
we'll be also introducing a lot of the hair analysis
related AI tools to help even further enhance your product discovery.
Speaker 4 (16:23):
Here, durneying process.
Speaker 1 (16:25):
Is this something that you knew you always wanted to
start a business, or you saw, hey, I got an
issue here and I don't see a product in the marketplace,
so let me figure it out.
Speaker 7 (16:33):
I always knew that I was entrepreneurial, although I didn't
know what that word meant. I didn't know entrepreneurship was
a career until I went to college and so I
studied business management and got a minor and entrepreneurship, and
then I went to USC and got a master's in
social entrepreneurship. So I definitely knew I wanted to start
a business one day, but I couldn't have predicted that
(16:57):
it would be this business, for like the heart business
to start as a first time founder, so many uncertainties,
there's so much unknown about this space, and the innovation
that was needed in this industry was not going to
be cheap, and so I just kind of jumped in
full force from there.
Speaker 1 (17:16):
I mean, as somebody who's done like a lot of construction,
I've heard the term PVC often, and what I've read
about you is you've you've discovered like a lot of
hair braiding. You know, products that are on the market
have PVC in it, and so talk about like, you
know what's in the market today and why those things
are issues for us.
Speaker 7 (17:37):
So from what I understand and what I've been able
to find in my research, the majority must say none
times out of ten, your hair extensions, your plastic hair
intensions are going to be made out of PVC. There
are some brands that use pet but for the most part,
it's PVC, and I just couldn't believe, based on what
I was learning about the way PVC was using other applications,
(18:01):
that it was okay to use it in a product
that sits on our scalps. I was just kind of
blown away that not enough people were either aware or
calling attention to the potential risks that we were assuming
as consumers wearing these products on our scalps. The other
half of the market is going to be human hair,
(18:23):
which are also coded in certain chemical The story behind
human hair is like it's a lot more secretive because
of where it's being sourced, how it's being sourced, to practices, how.
Speaker 8 (18:39):
It gets this way to the states.
Speaker 7 (18:40):
So you know, some people have an aversion to wearing
another human beings hair on their head. And so I
just recognized that there were these two opposite ends of
the spectrum in the hairs into the industry that both
had sort of nasty histories, and I wanted to know
was or was there a lane for something completely different
(19:02):
that wasn't made out of neither plastic or human hair.
Speaker 1 (19:05):
Yeah, so so often we think of, you know, our
scalp itching or irritation as just a byproduct that have
in natural hair.
Speaker 3 (19:12):
Yeah, this is not normal.
Speaker 5 (19:14):
This is not normal. Yeah, so talk more about that.
Speaker 7 (19:17):
I knew it wasn't normal, and I knew that most
people probably in their in their gut knew like this
wasn't normal. But it was sort of like an expectation
that if I get braids, and it's just something that
you have to do it almost like the beauteout pain
phrase that has been debunked in other areas, but it
was it's sort of an expectation like if I get
these braids, I know my scouts can be irritated, and
(19:39):
I'm gonna be patent. I know I'm gonna be like
oiling it down, doing an apple cider, vinegar rants, just
doing the whole nine.
Speaker 8 (19:46):
And I wasn't willing to do any of that one.
Speaker 7 (19:49):
And I was also just really curious, like I wanted
to know more of the why than to how am
I going to like continue to wear my braids and
go the extra model do that? Like I wasn't down
to do that. I understand, know what's the reason that
my scopot itching and what can I do about it
so that it doesn't happen again ever?
Speaker 8 (20:07):
In for anyone?
Speaker 1 (20:09):
Yeah, I was looking at I was doing research for
this conversation. I was looking at some other studies that
was done around products that are in your category, not
your products, but products in your category. And so many
synthetic chemicals are using these things that in many cases
are banned in other countries, right, and so things that
we allow, for whatever reasons in the United States to
(20:31):
be sold and to be put into people's hair. And
one of the things that I'm really interested in is
what is it about products that are that are not
plant based, that we may not even be aware are damaging?
Like what are they doing to like what are the
products doing to us in our skin? Because I was
before you answered, I was talking to my dermatologists several
years ago and she said this statement that stuck with
(20:52):
me ever since. Like, our skin is our largest organ.
You know, lot of people don't think of it that way,
but the things that you put on it ultimately get
in it. And so we think of exactly like we
think of you know, in our nose or in our
mouth or etce. Like these are gateways, but your skin
is a gateway.
Speaker 7 (21:07):
Also, and that's what's sort of like that's what scared
me once. So all these years ago. Was in twenty
started working on this in twenty nineteen. I think I
ordered this for parting. In twenty twenty, I sent to
two brands of plastic hair to a lab. I was
living in North Carolina at the time. I sent to
a lab in North Carolina for them to tell me, like,
you know, what is the what is the makeup of
(21:28):
these materials? And the results scared me because it got
me thinking about if I'm having a topical reaction itchiness, redness, bumps,
that is one of my bodies my immune system warning
me that something is wrong. But I was terrified about
(21:49):
what my body wasn't telling me right in that moment,
about what was possibly being absorbed from my skin into
my body, how I was impacting my organs, how it's
impacting my my immune system overall, and what sort of
connections that the chemicals found in these products have to
certain cancers and illnesses like breast cancer. And so that
(22:13):
that just became like really eye opening to me that
not only could I not allow myself to continue to
wear these products, but I have to warn other people
that there are questions that needs to be answered in
the same way that studies have been done about permanent
hair dyes, about relaxes. One of about relaxes I think
has been done a couple of times, but it just
gained a lot of traction this last go around, like
(22:35):
a couple of months ago, And so that same level
of discovery and research needs to be done with plastic
hair extensions so that we can know definitively if I'm
gonna continue to use these products. At least I can
make an informed decision about the risks that I'm assuming
as a as a consumer.
Speaker 1 (22:53):
I am interested because somebody who has your background education,
how you settle on this, this is the idea I'm
going to pursue. Like, You've been doing technology for a
long time, went to school for it, obviously had interest
in it growing up. How did you decide that I'm
going to solve his hair problem for us?
Speaker 4 (23:12):
Yes?
Speaker 9 (23:12):
Well, actually I went natural when I was in college
at Ordia Tech, and I was using all these products
like from my roommates, my line sisters, and it was
like drying my hair out and breaking off. So I
was like, Okay, there has to be a science to
how different products react on your hair. And it just
(23:34):
inspired me to study like the science of hair because
I originally wanted to be a hair stylist when I was,
you know, in high school thinking about my career path.
But I was also very in love with technology and
software development, so I decided to go that route. But
I always wanted to go to cosmetology school at some point,
(23:55):
and so I was thinking, Okay, this could be my
chance to you know, put my mytology brain on. And
when I researched the science of hair, discovered that your
hair is as unique as your fingerprint. So that's why
the curl pudding for my hair wouldn't be the same
as yours as any other person. And that just really
(24:16):
truly inspired me to create an algorithm that could match
your type of hair with the products that will work
best for you. And so that's how it all started.
And this was actually right before the natural hair movement
started too.
Speaker 5 (24:32):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (24:32):
Wow, Before I get in on the next question, can
you get more centered in the camera or turn the
camera or you screw over to your left a little
bittle a little bit more to your left. There, you
are all right, And if you need to stop any point,
we can stop any point. So so we are having
a huge conversation in our social discourse about AI and
(24:56):
how AI is changing everything, and I wonder how you
aught about it, implemented AI into your technology solutions, Like
what are you doing when you're thinking about this is
something that can be.
Speaker 5 (25:07):
Helpful for our people.
Speaker 9 (25:09):
Yes, well, we are the inventors of hair AI, which
can identify your unique hair type, texture, and condition and
so think about like all the unique variables of your
hair being able to instantly capture that and map it
to the right products based on your hair goals, hair challenges,
and product preferences. That's what our technology does. And we
(25:33):
were actually on the path of creating this before AI
started to take over the world essentially, so we ended
up being, you know, the market leaders in terms of
bringing hair AI to market. And actually our first major
client was Unilever and we licensed it on shaemoisture dot
(25:54):
com and so integrating it with the textured haircare brands
at the time was very pivotal because again we were
all in this phase of figuring out our hair and
understanding like again, what shampoo, conditioner, gel, cream, butter, you
(26:14):
know which which one.
Speaker 4 (26:16):
Works for me?
Speaker 9 (26:17):
Because the product the product junkies were essentially starting to
retire right. Like in the beginning, it was fun to
figure it out from experimental standpoint, but now, uh, with
the timing in the market, we want to eliminate the
trial and error, and so that's exactly what hair ai
does by Mayavana, and it also starts your personalized journey,
(26:40):
meaning the next time you change your hair, you can
get new recommendations as well. So we're excited to be
the market leaders of that, especially because it's so important
from a development standpoint for us to own the development
side of this. We are a team of black and
brown engineers. It's our culture, it's our pri and we
(27:01):
know that we can train the computers to essentially understand
the cultural differences of our hair because for a long time,
of course, our hair category, textured hair rather was always
an afterthought. So this was specifically designed to identify the
(27:23):
uniqueness of our hair because women of color have the
greatest hair texture variety out of any ethnicity in the world.
So we really wanted to own that and make sure
that it was done well and done right.
Speaker 8 (27:36):
With all textures, all types represented.
Speaker 1 (27:40):
Yeah, I'm interested in the.
Speaker 5 (27:42):
Foresight, the forethought like you had, like.
Speaker 1 (27:44):
You you're doing this before you know chat ept changed
everything for everybody. Yeah, and this is like, you know,
two three years ago now, and so you saw something
coming and you started working on it pre all that.
So I wonder like, what was the trigger, Like this
is where we should be spending resources?
Speaker 5 (28:05):
What was that?
Speaker 8 (28:06):
Yes, yes, that's a really good question.
Speaker 9 (28:10):
I believe it was at the time where you know,
e commerce has taken off, a lot of retailers are
starting to expand their categories. But I know what set
out for me was personalization and being able to incorporate massive,
massive amounts of data.
Speaker 8 (28:29):
To personalize the results.
Speaker 9 (28:32):
Meaning this is a many to many analysis, meaning the
many types of variables in our hair strands map to
the many type of variables in products. And I actually
saw this being done in other markets, in other industries
well before this. So I think it was just a
(28:53):
matter of you know, having the foresight to know that
eventually technology is transfer.
Speaker 8 (29:00):
Farming every industry.
Speaker 9 (29:01):
Right So, we had already went through the ride sharing transformation,
with Uber and Lyft now leading the transportation category. Airbnb
is now the leading marketplace for travel accommodations, right, So,
seeing how technology was so disruptive, I knew that it
(29:24):
was bound to hit our market at some point in time, right,
and what better way to do this by again catering
to the unique needs of the consumer, because we are
the heartbeat of this industry, meaning we spend all the
money in it, right, We're spending it is a part
of our culture, right, It's a part of how we
(29:47):
express who we are. And so it was just a
matter of seeing the solution, but also being in sync
with the market. Timing was the most important part of
this because again with technology, you do have to be
a few years ahead to really make a stamp, you know.
(30:10):
Like so even if you look at the history of
social networks, right, like, before these companies reached mass adoption,
they had to start in a particular niche that they
were catering to. And so with social network and even
like for example, Facebook starting on a college campus, Pinterest
(30:32):
started with a group of stay at home moms. You know,
there was always a niche that became the drivers of
adoption for that platform. And given that, you know, black
women spend nine times more than the average consumer on
hair products, we're the ones searching, where the ones buying,
and so.
Speaker 8 (30:52):
We became the niche group to cater to.
Speaker 9 (30:56):
But it ended up putting us, you know, in a
position to now the market for AI in hair care.
And actually the way we did it was we started
exhibiting at trade shows. So our first trade show was
the Brown Brother's Hair Show, and this was in twenty twelve,
but we came with our first demo of our product.
(31:18):
It was a hair journey platform, and so you know,
the way we greeted everyone was, you know, tell us
your hair journey story, because everyone has one, right and
so that actually became part of our secret sauce because
we realized that not only do I need to understand
(31:39):
your hair, I need to understand how it changes over
time and why, because that is what's driving this buying behavior.
And so by us tapping into those things.
Speaker 8 (31:52):
Again, it's just like you have to.
Speaker 9 (31:53):
That's why I truly believe founders have to follow their conviction, because,
like you know, by following that, we ended up becoming
in the forefront of this trend not only for hair
care but for all of beauty and now as we
see multiple industries too, So that's how it came together.
Speaker 1 (32:15):
Yeah, I love that because I think, like what you're
displaying is both the need to have that foresight being
that almost you know, prophetic, you know, view of the
future and be able to move fast because I think
about just a few years ago and for a while
we were talking about we just need products.
Speaker 5 (32:34):
That serve our texture at all.
Speaker 1 (32:36):
And what you've gone to is like, Okay, it's not
just about us as a people, it's about you as
an individual. And so we've like you know, super fast
went through black hair care products, African American and African
hair care products that you know, our type of hair,
our type of skin, our type of whatever. To you
the individual, We're getting down to the U. And so
(32:58):
my question is that for people who are building for us,
how fast and convicted to use your words, do we
need to be in order to be competitive in the future,
because it's to the individual now exactly.
Speaker 9 (33:21):
Yeah, you have to move on it immediately. And what
I mean by that is, you know, the moments of
conviction is all leading up to something, and so on
the consumer side, you know, we can observe many trends,
you know, even when it comes to TikTok, right, like,
there are many aspects of how certain features on other platforms.
(33:45):
You know, there may have been a a certain part
of the feature available on other platforms, but by focusing
on this one thing, which is to me the consumer
is engagement on small consumable content. I believe that again,
(34:07):
as a builder, you see something and once you start
building towards it and create a platform that caters to
that one thing that drives a person. This is all
like human psychology. My focus was human and computer interaction
because it's that one thing typically that is setting your
platform apart, even in a saturated market. Right, Like if
(34:31):
we look at social media, there was a reason why
you know, originally with Twitter it was basically like the
Facebook status. You know that all gravitated us to Twitter,
the one little, small consumable, consumable chunk of information. So
what is the one thing that is driving your customer?
Is what I feel like every founder needs to know
(34:54):
and follow that thing. And so for us, the one
thing is the hair journey.
Speaker 8 (35:02):
Right.
Speaker 9 (35:02):
One of my quotes, my favorite quotes is every hairstyle
has a story.
Speaker 8 (35:07):
Right, So if you go back, you look.
Speaker 9 (35:09):
At your your photos, your moments over time, you know
the story behind that style, Like what was going through
your mind? You know what error were you in? Use
it exactly?
Speaker 4 (35:23):
Yes?
Speaker 8 (35:24):
And so that is the.
Speaker 9 (35:27):
Driving force because our whole experience is personalized, meaning it's
it's catered to you.
Speaker 8 (35:34):
It's the care system. Those are the steps we take
you through.
Speaker 9 (35:38):
Consult, analyze, recommend, educate, and when we have our consultations,
we know that it's it's more than just hair, right,
It's about you. It's about who you are at this
point in time. It's about how you're evolving. Some questions
we like to ask, is if you could give your
(35:59):
hair name, what would it be and why?
Speaker 6 (36:02):
Right?
Speaker 9 (36:03):
Because your hair has its own personality too, but it
usually reveals something about you, right, Like mine's is Sunshine
because I love to do blonde, big hair. Also, the
name of my journey is rebirth because I feel like
every style shows how shows the rebirth that I'm having
(36:26):
over time. And so find the one thing that is
driving your customer because typically your platform is going to
be built around that one thing. And it just so
happened that for us to get to the one thing,
there's this major algorithm that's involved that took you know,
(36:48):
twelve years of research and development. But now imagine we
can unlock this for every person. Yeah, so that at
every stage of their journey, not only do they know
what products they need, but they are supported in who
they are at that stage of their journey. And that's
what I love the most about Mayavana. And I feel
(37:11):
like we're just getting into that phase too, because first
we had to build it. But now the idea of
catering to the unique needs of every person on a
personalized level, that that gives me.
Speaker 8 (37:26):
So much excitement.
Speaker 1 (37:28):
And so I've seen so many people building, you know,
shade butter companies, hair companies, lotion companies, et cetera, and
so many get stuck at the kitchen, you know, which
is a great place to start, but they get stuck there.
Can you talk about what you would do today if
you were starting over again, knowing what you now know
about how to successfully start. That may be helpful to
(37:51):
some of these brands.
Speaker 10 (37:53):
Yeah, I feel that sometimes what stops small businesses from
scaling to different levels is sometimes that person. I think
entrepreneurship it comes with the spirit of humility. And I've
seen several entrepreneurs that get in their own way because
they feel like they know everything. They don't like to listen,
(38:14):
and I think listening is a is very important. I mean,
especially listening to people that have gone down the path
that you're looking to go. I mean people that you
know have not necessarily been down that path. You may
want to have discernment with, you know, listening to them
or whatnot, but having a spirit of humility and asking
(38:37):
the right questions, surrounding yourselves with the right mentors. It
was a huge part of my success and outside of
like the funding. Like I know, funding is a huge
a huge undertaking for small businesses and entrepreneurs, and that's
a huge stumbling block. But it's not something that you
can't cross that obstacle, right. You know, We've gone through
(39:01):
funding challenges and it just takes for you to get
out there, network and connect with the right people. But
I feel that a lot of people get stuck in
that space of just operating from their kitchen because they
are they're not putting in what they want to get
out of it. Like, it's gonna whatever you put into
(39:21):
it is what you're going to get out of it.
And that's gonna take you getting out here, grinding, getting
out here, going to networking events, meeting people. It's gonna
take you also spending money, and sometimes you will be
spending money that you don't have. But that's the risk.
Everything comes with the risk. You have to take calculator risks.
But on the other side of the risk is the reward.
(39:42):
And you know, I just feel that like people, just like,
nobody's gonna know about your business if you don't get
out there and talk about it.
Speaker 5 (39:50):
It's a fact.
Speaker 4 (39:51):
And you gotta travel.
Speaker 10 (39:53):
And because my husband and I we would travel everywhere.
We would go everywhere to talk about our business. We
did events big and small because we wanted to get
the brand out there. And sometimes it just takes you
getting out of your own way and put yourself out
there and just you know, go for it and not
caring about what people think about how you're going to look.
Speaker 5 (40:13):
I love that. I love that.
Speaker 1 (40:15):
It's a quote I found where you said, you know
the glory in your story. You wrote that to encourage
others to see beyond their circumstances and tap into the
inner strength. And you also said winning in life and
business requires a kind of risk, taking that money that
many are afraid to embrace. And I hear you saying
so many things along those lines, and I want you
(40:36):
to talk about if you can remember some of the
most riskiest decisions you've made, and how you move through
those things, and how you move past the fear that
keeps most people from going past.
Speaker 10 (40:47):
Yeah, I mean I could give you several examples of
like just risks that we took throughout the journey. I mean,
the first risk, like I talked about earlier, was leading
my career my safe, comfortable. I was getting a paycheck
every two weeks. I knew that paycheck was coming, and
the risk was if this doesn't take off, I'm not
(41:09):
gonna have a job. You know, granted I have I
have a nursing license, so I had something to fall
back on, but you know, that was still a risk
of like just putting that career aside. And then when
my husband left his job, that's when it really got
real because he came from corporate, so you know, it's
not easy to just go get a corporate job. So
(41:29):
with both of us, leaving our careers was a huge risk.
But we focused on the vision guide gave us, and
we knew that we had to plan. Like we didn't
just leave our jobs and say, oh, you know, we
don't have a plan in place, or we don't have income.
We had to have a solid plan in place to
map out like how we were going to get some
(41:53):
type of income to still keep our bills afloat and
our food in our kids' mouth. So we had to
like plan that out. But it was a huge risk
of like the unknown of like both of us turning
away from our jobs. We had the risks that we
took when we entered into retail. That was a huge
risk because retail is a whole different beast and if
(42:15):
your brand does not perform in retail, it can be
very detrimental to your business because if you don't perform
and you have to come out, that is not a
cost to the retailer. That is a cost to you
as the brand. And depending on how many stores you're in,
that can be millions of dollars that if your brand
(42:37):
doesn't perform that you have to pay that retailer if
you don't sell or turn in those stores. That's a
huge risk because you know, it's like, we believe in
our brand, but the what if? What if it didn't
sell and then we take on this huge undertaking and
do we have over a million dollars to pay back
at that time? No, we didn't. The risk of when
(42:58):
we got aligned the credit. When when you're going to
get a line of credit and you're a small business,
like you don't have banks that are just trying to
throw money at you. They're very cautious because what they
want to know is how you're going to be able
to pay it back and what type of assets you
have that we can use as collateral. So the risk
(43:19):
was we had to put our house up for collateral,
the house that we live in, the house that we
raise our family in, and if that line is called,
do what happens next? They take your house? That was
a huge risk. The risk of taking on investment and
not knowing that this investment partnership was going to work.
Are we going to be able to perform and grow
(43:40):
the business to scale so we can get these investors
their return back on their investment. So everything that we
did was a risk, but we had we focus on, like,
you know, what is the reward on the other side
of it, and with proper planning. So the risks that
we take, we also make sure that we do the
proper planning and place to identify like what are the
(44:04):
eyes or like what are what is in our favor
if it does work. And that's why I say, you
have to calculate your risk because everything that you do
pretty much is going to be a risk. And I
always say this to my kids. Everything that you do
is going to be hard. You have to choose your heart.
I could have chose the heart of still working as
a nurse, paycheck to paycheck, struggling financially, trying to provide
(44:27):
for my family and going to work every day, miserable
on my feet for twelve hours, not getting sleep.
Speaker 4 (44:34):
That's hard.
Speaker 10 (44:35):
Or I can take the heart of grinding building a company,
taking red eye flights, taking the risk of being criticized
by my own people in my community, having having to
have thick, tough skin. You know, it's hard building a business,
not knowing if you're going to receive receive a return
on what you're building and what you're grinding for. It's
(44:56):
still hard, But which one is Both of them are hard,
but you got to choose your he hard. Everything that
we do in life is going to be hard.
When you look at the field of black women and
men who start off in beauty, health wellness companies, do
you think they go hard enough? Like where what keeps
them from achieving the type of level of success you've
achieved in this industry generally speaking?
Speaker 2 (00:16):
Do I think they go hard enough? I would have
to Unfortunately, I would have to say no. I think
for some reason, people think that when you operate on
an average level, or if you're able to excel by
just giving average. I think sometimes people think that's enough.
But in order to really scale something and take it
(00:36):
to the next level, it is going to require bloods
what in tears that I've come to the conclusion most
people are not willing willing to do, you know, or
they think that giving normal or average is okay and
it's not.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
What are some of those mistakes that people cut corners
on that keep them from like what are some of
the typical things you see?
Speaker 2 (01:00):
I think some of the typical things just the initiative.
You know, when I say you have to layer things on,
I mean you have to be from a social perspective,
you have to be you know, you have to.
Speaker 3 (01:13):
Put yourself out there.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
From a personal perspective, run your personal social media as
if it was a business, with strategy and timing and
when and professionalism.
Speaker 3 (01:23):
And then on the flip side, you have the business,
you have to do the exact same way. So there's
a lot of bells and whistles that goes along.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
With it that can be achieved. But you just can't
cut corners in regards to like the time. It's twenty
four hours a day, I have never since I've been
in business. But they do not disturb.
Speaker 3 (01:41):
I'm out of town my email, you know what I mean,
I just.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
Never have I'm going to respond to it or you know,
I'm gonna get to it a little bit later.
Speaker 3 (01:51):
But it's just NonStop.
Speaker 4 (01:53):
It's always, it's continuous. Now.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
I love that you talked about the personal input, like
their personal profiles and the CET because I wanted to know,
how do you build a sellable asset, a sellable brand
without becoming so core to it that if you're not
the face of it any longer, it no longer works.
Speaker 5 (02:10):
How do you do that?
Speaker 3 (02:11):
You got to look at the bigger picture.
Speaker 2 (02:13):
I think for me it was always about building a business,
building businesses and have an.
Speaker 3 (02:19):
Ability to actually scale them, you know, So for.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
Me, when I work on a project, you know, I
never get into it like, Okay, I'm about to build
this thing to sell.
Speaker 3 (02:29):
But to be honest, this is how big business goes.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
Like there's companies that's created strategically how do we position
this thing to sell? But I think for a lot
of people are entrepreneurs, it really doesn't work that way
because you have to attach yourself from a passion perspective.
Speaker 3 (02:46):
And if you're constantly thinking, I'm going to sell it one.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
Day, it's not going to necessarily do what you wanted
to do, you know what I mean. So you have
to keep your eye on the prize, which is being
passionate about what it is that you're working on, and
just again just give it, give it your all.
Speaker 1 (03:02):
Is direct to consumer a better opportunity these days to
think about, like what is the process like to get
into retail? Like so many times you hear companies who
spend thousands of dollars getting booths at conventions and traveling
the shows to you know, do the Dog and Pony Show.
How is it really accomplished to get into retail? Like
how do you set yourself apart? When you got of
(03:23):
the brand?
Speaker 3 (03:23):
I think the most.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
The best way to think about getting into retail is
to not think about getting into retail.
Speaker 5 (03:29):
Okay, if you start.
Speaker 2 (03:30):
Your business and you're constantly thinking what can I do
to solely get into retail, retailers are looking for businesses
who are actually popping outside.
Speaker 3 (03:40):
Of retail, so you have to think about it. These
are regular people, these buyers. There are people just like
you and me. They're taking a chance on you. This
is their job.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
So if you have not shown that you can succeed
outside of retail, because for some reason, people think that
when you get on the shelf, oh my god, non,
the retail is going to take off. They go to
advertise for you. You have to drive your own business. So
if you can't survive outside of retail, you won't be
able to survive inside. So if you treat your e
(04:11):
commerce website as if it was a legit retail resources, strategy,
finding a team, how to build it, scaling it, making
an assessment, it's easy to get into retail. They know
who you are, The demand is there, people are talking
about it. But if you think about it a little
bit less and concentrate on your brand, on the growth
(04:33):
of your company, then retail is going to be inevitable.
It's almost like a DJ. If you got a hot song,
he gonna play it, you know what I mean. Look,
if it's hot, it's hot. So you have to focus
on making your brand that hot that once the retailer
hear it, it's automatic, like you're coming in here automatically,
you know, because we've heard about this brand.
Speaker 3 (04:51):
The customers are calling.
Speaker 1 (04:52):
No, we're going to come back to the main choice.
But I do want to talk about you've got a
master class now, and you're teaching people, you know, all
across the CpG, particularly maybe health and hair and et cetera,
how to do this. What can you give me, like
the elevator pitch for this master class and what people
get out of it?
Speaker 3 (05:10):
I would say what they get out of is that
one on one giving you what.
Speaker 2 (05:16):
You need that that's basically different from the next person.
I think it was hard for me to say, let
me pre record this stuff and just like sell some
type of master class. But everybody needs something that's different,
something that's customized. I work with people who have no
idea how to operate social media. I work with people
who have no idea what the EI in an entity.
(05:38):
Forming an entity is I work with people who have
no concept at all of a business. I work with
people who have sold over a million dollars. So it's
hard for me to pre record something to say, well,
this is a one size spit off success. It's not
a one size spit off when you look at the
root that journey. Every journey is going to be a
little bit different. And the only way that I'm able
(05:59):
to do it's by me physically sitting down, talking and
ask asking those questions individually, because the responses is going
to change.
Speaker 3 (06:08):
It's going to be different across the board.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
And I mentioned you grew up in Detroit, and I
think about the work that you've done based on your success,
like the philanthropy work that you getting involved in. You know,
you started to pay my bill program. How much of
you know, the work that you do today speaks to
where you come from, like being from Detroit, And because
I talk about this often, being from the Midwest, you know,
forty five minutes away from where you grew up, we
(06:32):
were so heavily inundated with the manufacturing and automotive and
et cetera. And at least in Toledo, maybe in Detroit,
it was different. We didn't have that entrepreneurial spirit you know,
percolating around us. But the people who were successful were
successful because they worked at GM or G or et cetera.
How how do you see your role as you know,
(06:54):
a role model to you know, and the giving that
you do as impactful for people who want to want
to have a kind of success that you've achieved.
Speaker 2 (07:04):
I would definitely say, you know, one thing about you know,
being from Detroit, even if we didn't have what we
considered like that traditional you know, entrepreneurial leadership, what we
did have and what we continuously have, and I think
that's the same thing where you're from.
Speaker 3 (07:19):
Is that hustle.
Speaker 2 (07:20):
At the end of the day, we don't find a
way to make ends meet, we're don't find a way
to feed our family, you know. And I know for
sure my foundation being from Detroit and just not giving
up knowing that there's other opportunities that this door says, uh,
it's closed, or if someone says no, there's.
Speaker 3 (07:40):
Another opportunity out there.
Speaker 2 (07:41):
So I can't do it here, but I can go
around you and find someone else. So I definitely believe,
you know, having that that that hustle that I grew
up in definitely help achieve to kind of you know
where I am today.
Speaker 1 (07:56):
You know, I think there's something there, and I don't
have a question mind it. I want to say that
I think there's something to that, because you know, if
you like research, like scientists scientifically.
Speaker 5 (08:04):
About hair, it's like they call it dead follows.
Speaker 1 (08:07):
It's like it's not really like a nerve in it, right,
And so you like your hair, you don't feel it
when it gets cut, that scientists will tell you, But
I really I have a lot of hair number one,
and I can feel something when my hair is cut,
and so I don't know what that is or if
I said spiritual or neurological. I don't know how to
define that. But the fact that people say, you know, well,
(08:27):
it's just hair and you can cut it, and it's
like it doesn't mean anything to you to your point
about confidence, like it's more than just you know, a
beauty thing, or it's more than just you know in
that way. But I do feel like there's something that
I don't know if you have anything to answer that.
I didn't really have a question, but I do feel
like there's something more to it. Than just something sitting
on top of my head.
Speaker 6 (08:46):
Yeah, and many cultures your hair is like it's part
of your spirituality or ritual or even religion. And I
definitely think there's a lot of power in your hair
and it definitely tied to how you feel about yourself.
Speaker 4 (09:01):
Right, you look good, you feel good.
Speaker 6 (09:02):
I I think also here is also an area for creativity,
and so what looks this one is?
Speaker 4 (09:12):
You know, it.
Speaker 6 (09:13):
Allows us to like empower ourselves through creative like, hey,
my hair's turquoise because I love for example.
Speaker 5 (09:20):
I love it.
Speaker 1 (09:21):
So so when you get an idea for an app
like this, how do you start off?
Speaker 5 (09:26):
So you like, do you.
Speaker 1 (09:28):
Automatically think I need to go raise money? Do you
automatically think I need I need to go learn how
to code?
Speaker 5 (09:33):
Why? What is what are the first steps you take?
Speaker 1 (09:35):
Because I'm imagining because I did not read that you
were an engineer. I mean that's you're a scientist, and
so so talk to me about how do you how
do you get started in this way?
Speaker 4 (09:45):
Yeah?
Speaker 6 (09:46):
So, actually the reason why my engineer is I was
really passionate about solving. Like I said, I'm interested in
big problems that are overlooked and I was really interested
in building technology, and when I would talk to investors
that like, you're not engineer, so that fine, of give
a pha engineering, you can't tell me that. The journey,
I realized that in building a business you really need
(10:08):
a team, and so really you should really reflect on
your background and where your strengths are and just figure
out where, like depending on what you're building, what the
weaknesses are, and fill.
Speaker 4 (10:18):
Your team with those weaknesses.
Speaker 6 (10:20):
So like, holistically, you guys are rock solid in all
the errors that are required to build your business. But
to answer a question about how do you start, first
step always should be customer discovery.
Speaker 4 (10:32):
One of the number one reasons. I think it's like
number two.
Speaker 6 (10:36):
So I think number one reasons most businesses fail is
because they run out of money. Number two is because
they don't have customers. But I would argue the reason
that they don't have they run out of money is
because they're selling to they don't have customer enough customers.
So I really feel like the number one issue really
is you're building. Oftentimes people have these really amazing ideas
and sometimes they may come from like my self, founder
(10:58):
story or journey, but it may be that it really
doesn't happen to enough people that has a burning issue
or problem that they want to pay for. And so
customer discovery is the first step. And so customer discovery
is basically going out.
Speaker 4 (11:12):
And talking to your potential customer.
Speaker 6 (11:14):
And it's not asking them what your idea is or
telling what your ideas and asking for their feedback and
the idea.
Speaker 4 (11:20):
That's the second third phase of customer discovery process. It's
really about understanding.
Speaker 6 (11:25):
Their problems and listening for are they saying what you
think like your idea is or like coming somewhere close
to that, right, So really listening to the customer and
understanding what their problems are and building for that instead
of building and they will come.
Speaker 4 (11:39):
That works sometimes if you're lucky. Nine times out of
ten it does not work.
Speaker 1 (11:46):
So talk to me because I hear you. I want
to reiterate with you just said. It's not about telling
them what your ideas and asking them what they think.
Is really trying to dig into what their problems are
and what maybe they be doing today to solve those problems.
So so many entrepreneurs during that process can't help themselves
but to talk about.
Speaker 5 (12:06):
Their idea and their solutions.
Speaker 1 (12:07):
So how do you frame those questions to ensure that
you're not taining the responses that you're getting.
Speaker 6 (12:13):
Yeah, so a good place to start is open ended questions.
So if I was starting here days over today again,
I may ask people like, hey, tell me about your
your hair, Like, do you face any problems or challenges?
Speaker 4 (12:30):
What are the number one.
Speaker 6 (12:31):
Things that you wish that you could solve? I would
also add that people are really good at telling the
problems with not necessarily solutions. So people may come up
with cool ideas, but oftentimes the ideas that come up
with may not even be things that they would use themselves.
Do You have to be careful with that when you're
asking people for feedback, because they'll come up with some
really cool ideas and then you ask them would you
(12:53):
use that? And they're like, maybe sounds cool, but in
reality it's just a cool idea, not something that they
would you really used.
Speaker 4 (13:01):
So there's a lot of.
Speaker 6 (13:01):
Bias there in feedback. So just listen to them talking
about their story and you have to extrapolate or figure
out what they really mean, Like we between the lines, So.
Speaker 1 (13:11):
How did you come to a place where you knew
that people would pay for this? Because It's one thing
to say, hey, I have a conditioner for you. It's
another thing to say, hey, I have an educational tool
that actually helps you track to find the conditioner. How
do you get to a place that you knew they
would pull out their wallet?
Speaker 6 (13:27):
Yeah, so I've I personally and maybe hundreds and of women.
Speaker 4 (13:34):
Around their problems and concerns and so on.
Speaker 6 (13:37):
So that's kind of through the customer discovery process, I
realize that we have something here that we're building. So yeah,
so then we push forward with the development process.
Speaker 5 (13:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:48):
So there was this quote I found you were doing
another interview, and I'm going.
Speaker 5 (13:52):
To tell you what you said and have a question.
You said.
Speaker 1 (13:57):
You said, there's a classic inventor's mistake of being so
caught up in problem solving that you take for granted
that the way your solution is built and the way
your customer may find it most useful may be slightly different.
So many of us, you remember saying that. First of all,
so many of us start off in business because we
(14:19):
have an idea that we just know.
Speaker 5 (14:21):
Will work, or we assume it will work in the marketplace.
Speaker 1 (14:24):
And what you're saying is, you know, often we're wrong
and So how do.
Speaker 5 (14:29):
We ensure that we avoid that trap.
Speaker 1 (14:33):
Of being so romantic about the idea, because what will
happened to your point about customer discovery is we'll get
so romantic.
Speaker 5 (14:39):
About our ideas, will.
Speaker 1 (14:42):
Taint our questions in a way to get the answers
that we want.
Speaker 6 (14:45):
Yes, we will ask leading questions, and when you ask
the question, we always hear what you want to hear.
Speaker 4 (14:51):
Always.
Speaker 6 (14:53):
I mean, I tie oftentimes you use like dating analogies,
but I think it also happens in like the right.
Speaker 4 (15:00):
Oftentimes you're like, does he really like me? Does she
really like me? Do they really like me?
Speaker 6 (15:04):
And you everything they do, you're kind of wrapping around
this fantasy of them loving you or wanting to be
with you, But they're telling you through their actions, through
their feedback, through everything, that they're not interested. But you
really want them to say yes, right, or really want
them to be with you. That happens in business too, right.
It's just a human nature that we want people we
(15:25):
want to be right, and it's not necessarily about always
about ego.
Speaker 4 (15:28):
It's about like we're so passionate about what we're doing,
we don't want to be wrong right.
Speaker 6 (15:33):
Well, in business, and especially if you're building a high
tech adventure, you have to be okay with realizing that
you're wrong and pivoting and doing that quickly.
Speaker 1 (15:43):
So I log into the app the first time, talk
to me about some of the questions you ask or
things you ask me to do to help develop a
profile for myself.
Speaker 6 (15:52):
Yeah, so today we're asking a lot about your symptoms
and concerns. So when you log in, and of course
you cut your profile, and now you could also log
into social and then once you're in the app, we're
asking about your symptoms, concerns, and goals, and then we're
curating our educational insights based on that. Later this year,
(16:13):
we'll be also introducing a lot of the hair analysis
related AI tools to help even further enhance your product discovery.
Speaker 4 (16:23):
Here, durneying process.
Speaker 1 (16:25):
Is this something that you knew you always wanted to
start a business, or you saw, hey, I got an
issue here and I don't see a product in the marketplace,
so let me figure it out.
Speaker 7 (16:33):
I always knew that I was entrepreneurial, although I didn't
know what that word meant. I didn't know entrepreneurship was
a career until I went to college and so I
studied business management and got a minor and entrepreneurship, and
then I went to USC and got a master's in
social entrepreneurship. So I definitely knew I wanted to start
a business one day, but I couldn't have predicted that
(16:57):
it would be this business, for like the heart business
to start as a first time founder, so many uncertainties,
there's so much unknown about this space, and the innovation
that was needed in this industry was not going to
be cheap, and so I just kind of jumped in
full force from there.
Speaker 1 (17:16):
I mean, as somebody who's done like a lot of construction,
I've heard the term PVC often, and what I've read
about you is you've you've discovered like a lot of
hair braiding. You know, products that are on the market
have PVC in it, and so talk about like, you
know what's in the market today and why those things
are issues for us.
Speaker 7 (17:37):
So from what I understand and what I've been able
to find in my research, the majority must say none
times out of ten, your hair extensions, your plastic hair
intensions are going to be made out of PVC. There
are some brands that use pet but for the most part,
it's PVC, and I just couldn't believe, based on what
I was learning about the way PVC was using other applications,
(18:01):
that it was okay to use it in a product
that sits on our scalps. I was just kind of
blown away that not enough people were either aware or
calling attention to the potential risks that we were assuming
as consumers wearing these products on our scalps. The other
half of the market is going to be human hair,
(18:23):
which are also coded in certain chemical The story behind
human hair is like it's a lot more secretive because
of where it's being sourced, how it's being sourced, to practices, how.
Speaker 8 (18:39):
It gets this way to the states.
Speaker 7 (18:40):
So you know, some people have an aversion to wearing
another human beings hair on their head. And so I
just recognized that there were these two opposite ends of
the spectrum in the hairs into the industry that both
had sort of nasty histories, and I wanted to know
was or was there a lane for something completely different
(19:02):
that wasn't made out of neither plastic or human hair.
Speaker 1 (19:05):
Yeah, so so often we think of, you know, our
scalp itching or irritation as just a byproduct that have
in natural hair.
Speaker 3 (19:12):
Yeah, this is not normal.
Speaker 5 (19:14):
This is not normal. Yeah, so talk more about that.
Speaker 7 (19:17):
I knew it wasn't normal, and I knew that most
people probably in their in their gut knew like this
wasn't normal. But it was sort of like an expectation
that if I get braids, and it's just something that
you have to do it almost like the beauteout pain
phrase that has been debunked in other areas, but it
was it's sort of an expectation like if I get
these braids, I know my scouts can be irritated, and
(19:39):
I'm gonna be patent. I know I'm gonna be like
oiling it down, doing an apple cider, vinegar rants, just
doing the whole nine.
Speaker 8 (19:46):
And I wasn't willing to do any of that one.
Speaker 7 (19:49):
And I was also just really curious, like I wanted
to know more of the why than to how am
I going to like continue to wear my braids and
go the extra model do that? Like I wasn't down
to do that. I understand, know what's the reason that
my scopot itching and what can I do about it
so that it doesn't happen again ever?
Speaker 8 (20:07):
In for anyone?
Speaker 1 (20:09):
Yeah, I was looking at I was doing research for
this conversation. I was looking at some other studies that
was done around products that are in your category, not
your products, but products in your category. And so many
synthetic chemicals are using these things that in many cases
are banned in other countries, right, and so things that
we allow, for whatever reasons in the United States to
(20:31):
be sold and to be put into people's hair. And
one of the things that I'm really interested in is
what is it about products that are that are not
plant based, that we may not even be aware are damaging?
Like what are they doing to like what are the
products doing to us in our skin? Because I was
before you answered, I was talking to my dermatologists several
years ago and she said this statement that stuck with
(20:52):
me ever since. Like, our skin is our largest organ.
You know, lot of people don't think of it that way,
but the things that you put on it ultimately get
in it. And so we think of exactly like we
think of you know, in our nose or in our
mouth or etce. Like these are gateways, but your skin
is a gateway.
Speaker 7 (21:07):
Also, and that's what's sort of like that's what scared
me once. So all these years ago. Was in twenty
started working on this in twenty nineteen. I think I
ordered this for parting. In twenty twenty, I sent to
two brands of plastic hair to a lab. I was
living in North Carolina at the time. I sent to
a lab in North Carolina for them to tell me, like,
you know, what is the what is the makeup of
(21:28):
these materials? And the results scared me because it got
me thinking about if I'm having a topical reaction itchiness, redness, bumps,
that is one of my bodies my immune system warning
me that something is wrong. But I was terrified about
(21:49):
what my body wasn't telling me right in that moment,
about what was possibly being absorbed from my skin into
my body, how I was impacting my organs, how it's
impacting my my immune system overall, and what sort of
connections that the chemicals found in these products have to
certain cancers and illnesses like breast cancer. And so that
(22:13):
that just became like really eye opening to me that
not only could I not allow myself to continue to
wear these products, but I have to warn other people
that there are questions that needs to be answered in
the same way that studies have been done about permanent
hair dyes, about relaxes. One of about relaxes I think
has been done a couple of times, but it just
gained a lot of traction this last go around, like
(22:35):
a couple of months ago, And so that same level
of discovery and research needs to be done with plastic
hair extensions so that we can know definitively if I'm
gonna continue to use these products. At least I can
make an informed decision about the risks that I'm assuming
as a as a consumer.
Speaker 1 (22:53):
I am interested because somebody who has your background education,
how you settle on this, this is the idea I'm
going to pursue. Like, You've been doing technology for a
long time, went to school for it, obviously had interest
in it growing up. How did you decide that I'm
going to solve his hair problem for us?
Speaker 4 (23:12):
Yes?
Speaker 9 (23:12):
Well, actually I went natural when I was in college
at Ordia Tech, and I was using all these products
like from my roommates, my line sisters, and it was
like drying my hair out and breaking off. So I
was like, Okay, there has to be a science to
how different products react on your hair. And it just
(23:34):
inspired me to study like the science of hair because
I originally wanted to be a hair stylist when I was,
you know, in high school thinking about my career path.
But I was also very in love with technology and
software development, so I decided to go that route. But
I always wanted to go to cosmetology school at some point,
(23:55):
and so I was thinking, Okay, this could be my
chance to you know, put my mytology brain on. And
when I researched the science of hair, discovered that your
hair is as unique as your fingerprint. So that's why
the curl pudding for my hair wouldn't be the same
as yours as any other person. And that just really
(24:16):
truly inspired me to create an algorithm that could match
your type of hair with the products that will work
best for you. And so that's how it all started.
And this was actually right before the natural hair movement
started too.
Speaker 5 (24:32):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (24:32):
Wow, Before I get in on the next question, can
you get more centered in the camera or turn the
camera or you screw over to your left a little
bittle a little bit more to your left. There, you
are all right, And if you need to stop any point,
we can stop any point. So so we are having
a huge conversation in our social discourse about AI and
(24:56):
how AI is changing everything, and I wonder how you
aught about it, implemented AI into your technology solutions, Like
what are you doing when you're thinking about this is
something that can be.
Speaker 5 (25:07):
Helpful for our people.
Speaker 9 (25:09):
Yes, well, we are the inventors of hair AI, which
can identify your unique hair type, texture, and condition and
so think about like all the unique variables of your
hair being able to instantly capture that and map it
to the right products based on your hair goals, hair challenges,
and product preferences. That's what our technology does. And we
(25:33):
were actually on the path of creating this before AI
started to take over the world essentially, so we ended
up being, you know, the market leaders in terms of
bringing hair AI to market. And actually our first major
client was Unilever and we licensed it on shaemoisture dot
(25:54):
com and so integrating it with the textured haircare brands
at the time was very pivotal because again we were
all in this phase of figuring out our hair and
understanding like again, what shampoo, conditioner, gel, cream, butter, you
(26:14):
know which which one.
Speaker 4 (26:16):
Works for me?
Speaker 9 (26:17):
Because the product the product junkies were essentially starting to
retire right. Like in the beginning, it was fun to
figure it out from experimental standpoint, but now, uh, with
the timing in the market, we want to eliminate the
trial and error, and so that's exactly what hair ai
does by Mayavana, and it also starts your personalized journey,
(26:40):
meaning the next time you change your hair, you can
get new recommendations as well. So we're excited to be
the market leaders of that, especially because it's so important
from a development standpoint for us to own the development
side of this. We are a team of black and
brown engineers. It's our culture, it's our pri and we
(27:01):
know that we can train the computers to essentially understand
the cultural differences of our hair because for a long time,
of course, our hair category, textured hair rather was always
an afterthought. So this was specifically designed to identify the
(27:23):
uniqueness of our hair because women of color have the
greatest hair texture variety out of any ethnicity in the world.
So we really wanted to own that and make sure
that it was done well and done right.
Speaker 8 (27:36):
With all textures, all types represented.
Speaker 1 (27:40):
Yeah, I'm interested in the.
Speaker 5 (27:42):
Foresight, the forethought like you had, like.
Speaker 1 (27:44):
You you're doing this before you know chat ept changed
everything for everybody. Yeah, and this is like, you know,
two three years ago now, and so you saw something
coming and you started working on it pre all that.
So I wonder like, what was the trigger, Like this
is where we should be spending resources?
Speaker 5 (28:05):
What was that?
Speaker 8 (28:06):
Yes, yes, that's a really good question.
Speaker 9 (28:10):
I believe it was at the time where you know,
e commerce has taken off, a lot of retailers are
starting to expand their categories. But I know what set
out for me was personalization and being able to incorporate massive,
massive amounts of data.
Speaker 8 (28:29):
To personalize the results.
Speaker 9 (28:32):
Meaning this is a many to many analysis, meaning the
many types of variables in our hair strands map to
the many type of variables in products. And I actually
saw this being done in other markets, in other industries
well before this. So I think it was just a
(28:53):
matter of you know, having the foresight to know that
eventually technology is transfer.
Speaker 8 (29:00):
Farming every industry.
Speaker 9 (29:01):
Right So, we had already went through the ride sharing transformation,
with Uber and Lyft now leading the transportation category. Airbnb
is now the leading marketplace for travel accommodations, right, So,
seeing how technology was so disruptive, I knew that it
(29:24):
was bound to hit our market at some point in time, right,
and what better way to do this by again catering
to the unique needs of the consumer, because we are
the heartbeat of this industry, meaning we spend all the
money in it, right, We're spending it is a part
of our culture, right, It's a part of how we
(29:47):
express who we are. And so it was just a
matter of seeing the solution, but also being in sync
with the market. Timing was the most important part of
this because again with technology, you do have to be
a few years ahead to really make a stamp, you know.
(30:10):
Like so even if you look at the history of
social networks, right, like, before these companies reached mass adoption,
they had to start in a particular niche that they
were catering to. And so with social network and even
like for example, Facebook starting on a college campus, Pinterest
(30:32):
started with a group of stay at home moms. You know,
there was always a niche that became the drivers of
adoption for that platform. And given that, you know, black
women spend nine times more than the average consumer on
hair products, we're the ones searching, where the ones buying,
and so.
Speaker 8 (30:52):
We became the niche group to cater to.
Speaker 9 (30:56):
But it ended up putting us, you know, in a
position to now the market for AI in hair care.
And actually the way we did it was we started
exhibiting at trade shows. So our first trade show was
the Brown Brother's Hair Show, and this was in twenty twelve,
but we came with our first demo of our product.
(31:18):
It was a hair journey platform, and so you know,
the way we greeted everyone was, you know, tell us
your hair journey story, because everyone has one, right and
so that actually became part of our secret sauce because
we realized that not only do I need to understand
(31:39):
your hair, I need to understand how it changes over
time and why, because that is what's driving this buying behavior.
And so by us tapping into those things.
Speaker 8 (31:52):
Again, it's just like you have to.
Speaker 9 (31:53):
That's why I truly believe founders have to follow their conviction, because,
like you know, by following that, we ended up becoming
in the forefront of this trend not only for hair
care but for all of beauty and now as we
see multiple industries too, So that's how it came together.
Speaker 1 (32:15):
Yeah, I love that because I think, like what you're
displaying is both the need to have that foresight being
that almost you know, prophetic, you know, view of the
future and be able to move fast because I think
about just a few years ago and for a while
we were talking about we just need products.
Speaker 5 (32:34):
That serve our texture at all.
Speaker 1 (32:36):
And what you've gone to is like, Okay, it's not
just about us as a people, it's about you as
an individual. And so we've like you know, super fast
went through black hair care products, African American and African
hair care products that you know, our type of hair,
our type of skin, our type of whatever. To you
the individual, We're getting down to the U. And so
(32:58):
my question is that for people who are building for us,
how fast and convicted to use your words, do we
need to be in order to be competitive in the future,
because it's to the individual now exactly.
Speaker 9 (33:21):
Yeah, you have to move on it immediately. And what
I mean by that is, you know, the moments of
conviction is all leading up to something, and so on
the consumer side, you know, we can observe many trends,
you know, even when it comes to TikTok, right, like,
there are many aspects of how certain features on other platforms.
(33:45):
You know, there may have been a a certain part
of the feature available on other platforms, but by focusing
on this one thing, which is to me the consumer
is engagement on small consumable content. I believe that again,
(34:07):
as a builder, you see something and once you start
building towards it and create a platform that caters to
that one thing that drives a person. This is all
like human psychology. My focus was human and computer interaction
because it's that one thing typically that is setting your
platform apart, even in a saturated market. Right, Like if
(34:31):
we look at social media, there was a reason why
you know, originally with Twitter it was basically like the
Facebook status. You know that all gravitated us to Twitter,
the one little, small consumable, consumable chunk of information. So
what is the one thing that is driving your customer?
Is what I feel like every founder needs to know
(34:54):
and follow that thing. And so for us, the one
thing is the hair journey.
Speaker 8 (35:02):
Right.
Speaker 9 (35:02):
One of my quotes, my favorite quotes is every hairstyle
has a story.
Speaker 8 (35:07):
Right, So if you go back, you look.
Speaker 9 (35:09):
At your your photos, your moments over time, you know
the story behind that style, Like what was going through
your mind? You know what error were you in? Use
it exactly?
Speaker 4 (35:23):
Yes?
Speaker 8 (35:24):
And so that is the.
Speaker 9 (35:27):
Driving force because our whole experience is personalized, meaning it's
it's catered to you.
Speaker 8 (35:34):
It's the care system. Those are the steps we take
you through.
Speaker 9 (35:38):
Consult, analyze, recommend, educate, and when we have our consultations,
we know that it's it's more than just hair, right,
It's about you. It's about who you are at this
point in time. It's about how you're evolving. Some questions
we like to ask, is if you could give your
(35:59):
hair name, what would it be and why?
Speaker 6 (36:02):
Right?
Speaker 9 (36:03):
Because your hair has its own personality too, but it
usually reveals something about you, right, Like mine's is Sunshine
because I love to do blonde, big hair. Also, the
name of my journey is rebirth because I feel like
every style shows how shows the rebirth that I'm having
(36:26):
over time. And so find the one thing that is
driving your customer because typically your platform is going to
be built around that one thing. And it just so
happened that for us to get to the one thing,
there's this major algorithm that's involved that took you know,
(36:48):
twelve years of research and development. But now imagine we
can unlock this for every person. Yeah, so that at
every stage of their journey, not only do they know
what products they need, but they are supported in who
they are at that stage of their journey. And that's
what I love the most about Mayavana. And I feel
(37:11):
like we're just getting into that phase too, because first
we had to build it. But now the idea of
catering to the unique needs of every person on a
personalized level, that that gives me.
Speaker 8 (37:26):
So much excitement.
Speaker 1 (37:28):
And so I've seen so many people building, you know,
shade butter companies, hair companies, lotion companies, et cetera, and
so many get stuck at the kitchen, you know, which
is a great place to start, but they get stuck there.
Can you talk about what you would do today if
you were starting over again, knowing what you now know
about how to successfully start. That may be helpful to
(37:51):
some of these brands.
Speaker 10 (37:53):
Yeah, I feel that sometimes what stops small businesses from
scaling to different levels is sometimes that person. I think
entrepreneurship it comes with the spirit of humility. And I've
seen several entrepreneurs that get in their own way because
they feel like they know everything. They don't like to listen,
(38:14):
and I think listening is a is very important. I mean,
especially listening to people that have gone down the path
that you're looking to go. I mean people that you
know have not necessarily been down that path. You may
want to have discernment with, you know, listening to them
or whatnot, but having a spirit of humility and asking
(38:37):
the right questions, surrounding yourselves with the right mentors. It
was a huge part of my success and outside of
like the funding. Like I know, funding is a huge
a huge undertaking for small businesses and entrepreneurs, and that's
a huge stumbling block. But it's not something that you
can't cross that obstacle, right. You know, We've gone through
(39:01):
funding challenges and it just takes for you to get
out there, network and connect with the right people. But
I feel that a lot of people get stuck in
that space of just operating from their kitchen because they
are they're not putting in what they want to get
out of it. Like, it's gonna whatever you put into
(39:21):
it is what you're going to get out of it.
And that's gonna take you getting out here, grinding, getting
out here, going to networking events, meeting people. It's gonna
take you also spending money, and sometimes you will be
spending money that you don't have. But that's the risk.
Everything comes with the risk. You have to take calculator risks.
But on the other side of the risk is the reward.
(39:42):
And you know, I just feel that like people, just like,
nobody's gonna know about your business if you don't get
out there and talk about it.
Speaker 5 (39:50):
It's a fact.
Speaker 4 (39:51):
And you gotta travel.
Speaker 10 (39:53):
And because my husband and I we would travel everywhere.
We would go everywhere to talk about our business. We
did events big and small because we wanted to get
the brand out there. And sometimes it just takes you
getting out of your own way and put yourself out
there and just you know, go for it and not
caring about what people think about how you're going to look.
Speaker 5 (40:13):
I love that. I love that.
Speaker 1 (40:15):
It's a quote I found where you said, you know
the glory in your story. You wrote that to encourage
others to see beyond their circumstances and tap into the
inner strength. And you also said winning in life and
business requires a kind of risk, taking that money that
many are afraid to embrace. And I hear you saying
so many things along those lines, and I want you
(40:36):
to talk about if you can remember some of the
most riskiest decisions you've made, and how you move through
those things, and how you move past the fear that
keeps most people from going past.
Speaker 10 (40:47):
Yeah, I mean I could give you several examples of
like just risks that we took throughout the journey. I mean,
the first risk, like I talked about earlier, was leading
my career my safe, comfortable. I was getting a paycheck
every two weeks. I knew that paycheck was coming, and
the risk was if this doesn't take off, I'm not
(41:09):
gonna have a job. You know, granted I have I
have a nursing license, so I had something to fall
back on, but you know, that was still a risk
of like just putting that career aside. And then when
my husband left his job, that's when it really got
real because he came from corporate, so you know, it's
not easy to just go get a corporate job. So
(41:29):
with both of us, leaving our careers was a huge risk.
But we focused on the vision guide gave us, and
we knew that we had to plan. Like we didn't
just leave our jobs and say, oh, you know, we
don't have a plan in place, or we don't have income.
We had to have a solid plan in place to
map out like how we were going to get some
(41:53):
type of income to still keep our bills afloat and
our food in our kids' mouth. So we had to
like plan that out. But it was a huge risk
of like the unknown of like both of us turning
away from our jobs. We had the risks that we
took when we entered into retail. That was a huge
risk because retail is a whole different beast and if
(42:15):
your brand does not perform in retail, it can be
very detrimental to your business because if you don't perform
and you have to come out, that is not a
cost to the retailer. That is a cost to you
as the brand. And depending on how many stores you're in,
that can be millions of dollars that if your brand
(42:37):
doesn't perform that you have to pay that retailer if
you don't sell or turn in those stores. That's a
huge risk because you know, it's like, we believe in
our brand, but the what if? What if it didn't
sell and then we take on this huge undertaking and
do we have over a million dollars to pay back
at that time? No, we didn't. The risk of when
(42:58):
we got aligned the credit. When when you're going to
get a line of credit and you're a small business,
like you don't have banks that are just trying to
throw money at you. They're very cautious because what they
want to know is how you're going to be able
to pay it back and what type of assets you
have that we can use as collateral. So the risk
(43:19):
was we had to put our house up for collateral,
the house that we live in, the house that we
raise our family in, and if that line is called,
do what happens next? They take your house? That was
a huge risk. The risk of taking on investment and
not knowing that this investment partnership was going to work.
Are we going to be able to perform and grow
(43:40):
the business to scale so we can get these investors
their return back on their investment. So everything that we
did was a risk, but we had we focus on, like,
you know, what is the reward on the other side
of it, and with proper planning. So the risks that
we take, we also make sure that we do the
proper planning and place to identify like what are the
(44:04):
eyes or like what are what is in our favor
if it does work. And that's why I say, you
have to calculate your risk because everything that you do
pretty much is going to be a risk. And I
always say this to my kids. Everything that you do
is going to be hard. You have to choose your heart.
I could have chose the heart of still working as
a nurse, paycheck to paycheck, struggling financially, trying to provide
(44:27):
for my family and going to work every day, miserable
on my feet for twelve hours, not getting sleep.
Speaker 4 (44:34):
That's hard.
Speaker 10 (44:35):
Or I can take the heart of grinding building a company,
taking red eye flights, taking the risk of being criticized
by my own people in my community, having having to
have thick, tough skin. You know, it's hard building a business,
not knowing if you're going to receive receive a return
on what you're building and what you're grinding for. It's
(44:56):
still hard, But which one is Both of them are hard,
but you got to choose your he hard. Everything that
we do in life is going to be hard.
Host
Will Lucas
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