January 26, 2025 • 42 mins
The Black Effect Presents... Black Tech Green Money!
Ep. 186 In this episode of Black Tech Green Money, AfroTech's Will Lucas chats with Nicky Saunders, Content Strategist at Deeper Than The Brand, to explore the powerful strategies behind turning social media followers into loyal customers. Nicky, best known for scaling motivational speaker Eric Thomas’s online community from 300K to 2M, shares her insights on how entrepreneurs and small business owners can grow their digital footprint with authenticity and purpose.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Afrotech Conference is back, bringing together over twenty thousand tech enthusiasts, founders, investors,
and more for another unforgettable year. For years, afro Tech
has been the go to event for black innovators in
tech with the brightest mind share, the latest developments and insights,
and this year we're bringing the experience to Houston, Texas.
From November thirteenth through the sixteenth. Join us to learn
(00:20):
from the innovators and leaders who are shaping the future
of tech. From insightful panels to curated meetups and expansive recruiting,
you'll connect with industry trail blazers. In addition to focusing
on the latest and AI and data, this year's programming
explores the intersections of tech with health, environment, and creative design.
Don't miss your chance to be part of it. Secure
your spoted afro Tech Conference twenty twenty four today visit
(00:42):
Afrotech Conference dot counted by your ticket Now. I'm me
Lucas and this is Black Tech, Green Money. Nicky Sonders
is a powerhouse in the world of content strategy and
personal branding. She's the content strategist and founder of Deeper
than the Brand, where she helps entrepreneurs, speakers, and creatives
grow their digital footprint authentically. She's best known for her
(01:05):
work with motivational speaker Eric Thomas, better known as et
what she helps scale his online community exponentially. She's passionate
about helping others turn their social media presence into a
vehicle for success using the power of storytelling, AI and
impactful strategy. So what goes wrong when I believe I
have a post that's fire and I post it and
(01:28):
it goes flat and nothing happens, nobody likes it? Like
what happens? Nikki? Help me out?
Speaker 2 (01:37):
I mean, it could be a few things like that.
That's such a broad questions, Like, it could be.
Speaker 3 (01:44):
The timing, It could be anything from you didn't have
the right hook.
Speaker 2 (01:49):
It could be the algorithm.
Speaker 3 (01:50):
There's a lot of things like it's I always look
at when I post and it goes flat, I look
at me first.
Speaker 1 (01:59):
Yeah right.
Speaker 3 (02:00):
I think it's easier to control what I post and
what I put out and what I create instead of
going ah, the algorithm is doing what it does.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
I was like, because I can't.
Speaker 3 (02:11):
I feel like that's a cop out when other people
numbers are clearly are doing Okay, I'm just feeling a
certain kind of way because no one's listening to me
at this moment.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
But then I have, like I look at it from
a standpoint of all right, visually, how does it look?
You know, what was the first three seconds? Did? I? Uh?
I keep their attention?
Speaker 3 (02:37):
Because depending on the platforms, if you get them to
listen through the whole way through, like that could be
a thing.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
So it's it's just it's a lot of things. It's
a lot of things.
Speaker 1 (02:47):
Our pictures on Instagram.
Speaker 3 (02:48):
Dad, No, No, it's just you feel me like you
got to put it extra loving it, So you may
have to put like some music, feel me. You may
have to make it into a carousel, so you may
have to say extra stories. You may have to be
a little bit more intentionals with the captions and make
(03:09):
it a little bit longer. What happens is what the
days of I post a picture and I say one sentence.
Now that's dead, let's just stop it. It doesn't even work.
But the more that they add features, we have to
pay attention to it. So they're allowing you to add
text to it, They're allowing you to add extra.
Speaker 2 (03:30):
Pictures on top of your pictures.
Speaker 3 (03:32):
So you look at, let's say, the different features that
are inside of Instagram, and you use them, it probably
better you reach for your post.
Speaker 1 (03:43):
And so what I learned, and this is a year
ago or more, what Instagram does is they count swipes
through your photo gallery as engagement. And so what I
wonder if because I actually enjoyed these particular types of
posts where there it's a gallery and like none of
the yotos match, like they just you know, maybe one
is a quote, another one is me eating, the next
(04:04):
one is you know, something random. I actually enjoy though,
so tell like, what is that about? Why are people
doing that? I enjoy it? But where did it come from?
What happened?
Speaker 3 (04:15):
So sometimes they follow a theme, right, Sometimes they could
be super just randomness, but it really gives you a
sense of personality of the person who's posting it or
the brand who's posting it, right, And so that's not
necessarily normal in the way that we normally post that.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
Now it's starting to be attractive.
Speaker 3 (04:41):
So when we're seeing, Okay, I have a picture of
me at the park, but then I have a funny
meme on the next one, and then I have a
deep quote, It's like I'm fully truly understanding who you
are as a person, rather than the thirty second sixty
second videos, ninety second videos that can be kind of
(05:05):
like staged and scripted. So sometimes we don't necessarily get
your full personality unless it's those types of posts or
even lives. That's why lives still kind of have a
little bit of energy to it because we get to
know who you are because you can't really lie on
a live It's just impossible as truly as possible.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
So I'm gonna ask a question. I'm gonna go the
long way around to ask this question because I think
this is important context. So we talk a lot about
how educational institutions don't teach financial literacy, and a lot
of them do now they're increasingly teaching financial literacy. And
I say that, you say this when we talk about
(05:47):
entrepreneurs and people who are trying to build businesses. Don't
post the struggle, but they post the highlights, so you
only see the highlight reel. But when you do post
the struggle or we find it difficul two post truckle,
I'll say that, so how do we solve for that?
So when we talk about the academic and they trying
to fix that. How do we fix you know, the
(06:08):
entrepreneur who's trying to show you that he's winning or
she's winning and they're finding success and therefore follow me.
I'm on a row somewhere, but that struggle, Like, I
don't want to sound like I'm on here doing the
Tyree's cry.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
You know what I mean, right, But the Tyresse cry
worked good or bad? It worked?
Speaker 1 (06:28):
You feel mean?
Speaker 3 (06:29):
So but I say that because I think now in
the season that we're in, the day in the life
is starting to get more play, then I fully got
it together, right. And those people who are actually taking
advantage of that is like gen Z and Jena, like Alpha,
(06:50):
like they're really going into day one of trying to
create a billion dollar brand, right, and they show everything
about it, good or bad. Those people who can't do that,
it's a self issue. It has nothing to do with
the algorithms, the platforms, Does the content work or not?
(07:13):
Because society culture is over.
Speaker 2 (07:16):
The highlight bils.
Speaker 3 (07:17):
We want the actual things that work or that doesn't work,
or I want to feel like I'm not alone anymore, right,
And so those people who are showing, hey, this is
how I.
Speaker 2 (07:32):
Do this, I don't know if it's right. I don't
know if it's like, but I'm going to do it anyways.
Speaker 3 (07:38):
It builds community, and so those brands are starting to
get more and more traction because it's community centered, it's
for the people. Whereas, yes, the ones that only show
the highlights are great, cool. You can look at it
more like as these are goals. I want to get there,
(08:00):
but I feel disconnected because you're already there and I'm not.
So I could look at you kind of like I
look at it more of like we do.
Speaker 2 (08:12):
The vision boards, so I could post.
Speaker 3 (08:16):
Your brand, your content on my vision board, but I don't, like,
I don't truly feel connected until I am there. Where
people who are posting about Okay I made ten dollars today, Okay,
I made three thousand dollars today, Okay it went back
to like four. Like, those are starting to get a
(08:38):
little bit more attraction. It's still not of the masses
just yet, but you start if you pay attention. It's
definitely more popular on TikTok at this moment, but it's
starting to make waves on YouTube, on Instagram, on Facebook
as well because people are just starting to like, are
just over the highlight reel.
Speaker 1 (09:00):
Yeah, I like that. So I asked Maddy, what are
the same question? And I'm gonna ask it to you too.
Like you know, I live in Teed, Ohio. I live
in a place it's not like an LA in New
York and Chicago where there's always like beautiful stuff to
pose and my life is amazing. I'm walking in this
place and I'm walking in that place and got the
little furry dog and life is wonderful and beautiful. TikTok beautiful,
(09:20):
but like and most of the people who listen to
this podcast are not in LA, New York, Chicago, et cetera.
So how do you how do you develop that day
in the life content when your life doesn't feel like
that kind of exciting?
Speaker 2 (09:36):
You just document what you do.
Speaker 3 (09:37):
So meaning I'm an introvert, so nine out of ten
times i'm in this area, I'm in front of computer
screens and that's it. The crazy thing is, I think
my life is boring, but other people don't.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
Right, your life sounds like my life. I'm sitting right
here eight hours a day in.
Speaker 3 (09:54):
The fjority of the time, but you're doing things that
people wish they could, like you feel what I'm saying.
So creating a podcast, creating any type of content, people
are like, yo, show me how right? Or how do
I create it? How do I have interviews like you?
Speaker 2 (10:14):
How do I ask? How do you prepare? How?
Speaker 3 (10:15):
Like we take for granted what we do every single
day because we do it every day and it's super easy.
But if we was to start documenting it and showing
that simple, simple format, do it on stories, see how
it does right? Because we as humans need to build momentum.
(10:37):
I need to know this works before I really put
all my energy to it, right, and so put in stories.
See like day in the life. Okay, boom, I'm walking
my dog. Okay, maybe that doesn't get that much views,
but okay, I'm about to bullet journal and write out
all my task.
Speaker 2 (10:56):
And how I'm feeling. And they're like, oh, you have
a routine.
Speaker 3 (10:59):
I'm like, yeah, right, okay, Like, okay, I went, I
went to the suna and cold plunge.
Speaker 2 (11:07):
You do that? I was like, yo, I talk about
content and AI all the time. Y'all concerned about when
I go to the sauna and cold plunge. That's crazy.
Speaker 1 (11:16):
Ye.
Speaker 3 (11:16):
So it's it's interesting to see that what we think
is not important, like it really is important to people
because there's a sense of your expertise and who you are.
And so you can show one only and then people
(11:37):
feel disconnected. So if you show both, Yo, I'm on
the I'm on the the journey of making my company
over six figures, right.
Speaker 2 (11:49):
But in the meantime, I gotta call my mom right,
make sure she's good.
Speaker 3 (11:53):
I gotta go and Instacart messed up, so I gotta
go to the joint over there and make yourself normal.
This is where storytelling comes in, and storytelling is the
key part of any brand if we pay attention to
anything right now, the ones that are killing it know
(12:14):
how to tell stories. This is why Nike has been
what they have because they know how to tell stories.
They're not selling shoes, they sell stories. Apples sell stories.
And so we look at the best and be like, Okay,
how do I turn a problem into a story?
Speaker 2 (12:32):
A relatable story?
Speaker 3 (12:34):
And so my boring life is going to be turning
into a story that can relate to somebody who lives
in Oklahoma right chilling in the crib, who may only
have a one bedroom at the time, but can see
like yo, it's not about the space, it's about the
(12:55):
story that you tell.
Speaker 1 (12:58):
So you caught a break working with Eric Thomas legendary
et where when you started working with him? What were
the what were those numbers?
Speaker 2 (13:08):
Like three hundred k at the time.
Speaker 1 (13:12):
That's Instagram YouTube? What was that?
Speaker 2 (13:14):
Yeah? Instagram?
Speaker 3 (13:16):
Uh, Facebook was about two hundred and something YouTube. I
don't nowhere near a million at the time, but yeah,
those those were what I was working with.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
And when you do did you stop working or when? Where?
Where did we go? How did Nicky grow this?
Speaker 2 (13:36):
I mean, we're still working with E. I love E.
I'm not going nowhere. I'm one of those loyal people like.
Speaker 3 (13:41):
I have my own stuff, but he's he's family. I'm
always going gonna make sure that he's good. Where are
we at now, that's why we're still rocking.
Speaker 1 (13:51):
Where we at now on numbers?
Speaker 3 (13:53):
Uh, over two million, two point two on Instagram, about
to hit one point five on YouTube, and we at
one point nine Facebook.
Speaker 2 (14:05):
Be acting crazy.
Speaker 3 (14:06):
We're literally at two million with Facebook, but like one
point nine mil right now.
Speaker 1 (14:11):
Yeah, this is what's so interesting to me because you
know he obviously he's dynamic, obviously. Yeah, but there's a
lot of dynamic people like what happened? How did that happen?
To triple, quadruple these numbers.
Speaker 3 (14:25):
So I concentrated more on what people wanted than necessarily
what the algorithm wanted or even what he wanted. So
if people are looking for bars from him, I'm going
I'm going to do that. The easiest way that we
made from like where he was to the first million
(14:49):
was I figured out the best quotes, the best bars
that everybody was loving, and I posted those things. So
anytime that he had us, anytime he had an event,
I would post exactly what the audience want, read the
comments and go, Okay, somebody's feeling this way, let's find
(15:09):
a message based off how they're feeling. Right, and really
went through the feedback based off what the people wanted.
Because if you cater to what your audience wants, they're
going to share it.
Speaker 2 (15:23):
I'm not here to fight that.
Speaker 3 (15:25):
I'm not going to be like, no, we're only going
to be posting about whatever we're selling, whatever we're doing.
Speaker 2 (15:32):
No, these platforms.
Speaker 3 (15:34):
Are for brand awareness, So I'm going to always do
different clips based off what people said. If there is
a sports event that just happened, then You're going to
see some images of that with EA's voice on it.
Speaker 2 (15:50):
That makes it more relevant. So figuring out the trends.
Speaker 3 (15:54):
Whether there's a sports event, whether there's something political, whatever,
whatever people are talking about that can be related to
what he's saying. Put it together. So between that and trends,
it grows. But I concentrated more on the content, the
body of that instead of just the tips and tricks
(16:17):
of the platforms.
Speaker 1 (16:18):
So were you anti or for repurposing the same content
across different platforms or does your Instagram content need to
be developed for Instagram.
Speaker 3 (16:30):
In the beginning, it was a little bit separate, right
because if we think about maybe just a couple of
years ago, there was different languages. But because of the
rise of short form videos, it's almost the same, right,
because you got reels on Instagram and Facebook, you got tiktoks,
(16:51):
you got YouTube shorts. YouTube shorts just made an announcement
saying that they could go up to three minute videos
starting somewhere in October, right, so it's going to be
the same. It's about how can you tell the story?
Speaker 2 (17:07):
Right?
Speaker 3 (17:08):
So in the beginning, yes, one was only taking long
form videos. The other one was only taking texts and pictures.
The other one was only taking thirty second videos. So
in the beginning, understanding the platforms, you have to do
a different strategy. Now it's starting to be repurposing it
in a strategic way, right, But even.
Speaker 2 (17:30):
That, like.
Speaker 3 (17:32):
How do you address each audience of the platform. So
for example, if I was saying the announcement of the
YouTube shorts making it up to three minutes, I would
do a green screen on TikTok saying, hey, YouTube shorts
are about to be three minutes. You could take your
tiktoks that are over a minute and put it on
(17:55):
YouTube shorts. If I was saying it on Instagram a
your videos that you do on Instagram reels, you could
put it on YouTube. Now I'm catering to each of
the audiences, so we would change the captions, we would
change the formats at certain points of whatever the energy
was going to be on that platform. But for the
(18:17):
most part, it was just like strategic repurposing. Like his
whole his whole content is repurpose content. There's this weekly
new stuff, but majority of it that you see where
in any major brands, it's all repurposed content.
Speaker 1 (18:35):
You know, timing matters so much in social media, and
I wonder, like, so like when I got, you know,
involved with afrotech. I went to my first Afrotech conference
back in twenty seventeen, and I was like the only
person back then vlogging every day. I was walking around
the whole conference like this come, vlogging all day long,
editing that night in the in my hotel room, publishing
(18:56):
that night Friday light like who is this guy? And
I did that every day at that conference. So that's
that's how I got on the radar of a lot
of the executives. And so I've so my question is this,
like how timing matters, Like now you go to aprote
everybody's doing that when I was when I did in
twenty seventeen, it was like one of maybe two people.
And so if I want to jump off the bridge
(19:18):
on YouTube, So there was a day where people would
just say, you know, I'm gonna do thirty days straight
of YouTube content, I'm like, shameless. Maya did this some
years ago. It might have even been a year, but
I think she for sure did it every day for
a month and she blew up. Does that still work today?
So if I said, you know, I want to pop
on YouTube. I'm gonna go hard. I'm gonna do thirty days.
(19:39):
I'm in, and hopefully by the end of that thirty days,
i'm up. I got my YouTube plaque coming. It's up.
Speaker 3 (19:47):
So I would have say you probably get a YouTube
plat guarantee, right, but I will say it does. It
does work for a few reasons. One, most people who
do that weren't consistent on it anyways. So now you're
building consistency. Any platform respects consistency, and once they start
(20:08):
seeing you post more and more, they're like, hold on,
let me let me push you out because you're here
every single day. Now, Hello, I kind of like you.
Now before I wasn't taking you serious, but now I
kind of like you, So let me post it to
As a as a creator, you get better. Right, your
(20:29):
day one to your day twenty five is going to
be completely different. So you're going to now start having
data of what works and what doesn't, and you're going hopefully,
hopefully you're going to change up some of your content
based off Okay, this got seven views, this one got
five thousand views. Hold on, what did I do? Let's
(20:50):
do this over right. So between the platform taking you serious,
and then you figuring out exactly what you're your audience
and the platform wants. On top of that, you're building
a community because people love journeys. They're either a trying
to champion you b trying to see if you're.
Speaker 2 (21:12):
Gonna finish or not, but they gonna watch you.
Speaker 3 (21:15):
They gonna watch you regardless, and so you're like, Yo,
this is day seventeen and I feel like quitting, right,
but I'm a post it. It's only probably gonna be
two minute long vlog.
Speaker 2 (21:26):
Today, but a we hear.
Speaker 3 (21:30):
People are gonna watch Okay, yo is he gonna it's
gonna make it to thirty up?
Speaker 2 (21:35):
We're eighteen, we're nineteen. Oh okay cool.
Speaker 3 (21:38):
And then also you're giving inspiration for other people to
be like, oh they did that, I could do this too, right,
And so the community, if anything, if you don't get
your plaque, you get a community that the second that
these thirty days finished, you could probably drop some merch
you could probably got paid commit you could probably do
(22:01):
an event, and they're going to be like, I'm invested,
Like I want to be a part of whatever else
you're doing. So there's a lot of benefits of doing
that if you are open to the totality of doing
things on a like a challenge base.
Speaker 1 (22:19):
But yeah, yeah, I like that. I like that. You know.
I was reading an interview you this some time ago,
and you said that your goal was to help people
feel comfortable telling their stories in a way that feels
true to them. There's a lot of vulnerability that comes
with being truly authentic online. We talked about, you know,
if I'm failing right now, there's this meme you know,
(22:40):
you talk about the day in the life of an
entrepreneur like I'm killing it. It's killing me, you know,
I'm doing it like I'm done, Like you know what
I mean. And so like there's real vulnerability with being authentic.
How do people get over that and share themselves publicly?
And when I got to go look at these people
in the phase now.
Speaker 3 (23:01):
Yeah, it's setting boundaries, right, You don't have to social
media is not a reality TV show. If you don't
want it to be right, you can do Like for me,
You're probably not going to see much of my mom,
much of my Grandma. Doesn't mean I don't love them.
It's just a boundary that I have. You may not
(23:23):
always see twenty four to seven of my relationship. It's
a boundary that I have. But you may hear in
certain seasons that I suffer through depression.
Speaker 2 (23:32):
Right.
Speaker 3 (23:33):
I'm not gonna say that every single day, but there
are certain seasons, especially if I know it's kind of
heavy and the creator burnout kind of season, that I
may talk about that. Right, there's certain I kind of
do a list of what I'm able to talk about
and what is non negotiable in this season, and then
what I may say depending on how I feel, how
(23:58):
the audience needs it, and it may stretch me, but
I'll be open to it to talk about it, right,
And that changes with every single season. Like some people
are like my kids are like non negotiable. I'm not
putting out my kids at all.
Speaker 2 (24:16):
And then they.
Speaker 3 (24:17):
Become fifteen years old and they became champion of something
and they want to just show them to just say, hey,
I love my baby, right, Like I don't really show him,
but I love my baby.
Speaker 1 (24:30):
Right.
Speaker 2 (24:31):
Yeah, it's going to change.
Speaker 3 (24:32):
But you as a creator, you as a business owner
turn creator too, gotta go. Okay, Yes, the main part
is the brand awareness. The main part is the expertise
experiences all that great stuff. But I'm open to this
and I'll say it here and there or I'll show
(24:55):
it here and there, because you're going to receive energy
of man, I didn't know that about you. That's so amazing. Yo,
I rock with you even more. Like remember, and sometimes
it won't be in the comments. It will be like
when you meet a person, Yo, I loved when you
(25:16):
said this, You're like, you watch that, you didn't comment,
didn't like that even know you followed like what are
you talking about?
Speaker 1 (25:23):
Nah?
Speaker 3 (25:23):
That really hit home to me for boom, Like, you
don't know the impact that you truly have. And as
long as you can feel comfortable showing it talking about it,
do it. But if you don't feel comfortable at all,
do not stress yourself out because that's just not authentic
(25:43):
to you and so you're going to be inconsistent with it.
Speaker 1 (25:47):
What is some general and specific things. When you go
to an entrepreneur, you go to the page on TikTok
they Instagram, you're like, you should stop doing that, Like
that's why that's killing your success, this limiting your opportunities.
Stop doing that. What do we do?
Speaker 3 (26:07):
There's a few things, and it's a preference right. My
thing is, I'm never gonna tell you not to do
something unless data shares that you shouldn't, right, Because I
may not be your audience, regardless if I'm auditing it,
I'm looking at it as a friend, whatever, I may
not be your audience. But if your data shows that
(26:27):
this is low numbers every single solitary time, FAM, you
may have to like, I know we don't want to quit,
but this one you may have to like put on
the bench for a little bit, like focus on what
does numbers right?
Speaker 2 (26:45):
And so it's just it's a true sit down.
Speaker 3 (26:48):
Every single month, Ay, I've put out between thirty to
ten pieces of content today, depending on how consistent you are.
Right this month I put out that in which ones
were the highest, which one were the lowest?
Speaker 2 (27:04):
What are my average numbers? Right?
Speaker 3 (27:06):
My lowest pieces of content? I really need to sit
down and be like, is it time to cut that out?
Speaker 2 (27:13):
Or do we go one more month?
Speaker 3 (27:15):
If we're in two months and we're not doing no numbers,
chill out, let it go, Maybe try it in another season.
I'm not saying let the idea go, but let's try
it a different season, or let's try to create it
in a different way in a different environment and different
kind of content formats. Maybe that doesn't need to be
a video. Maybe that needs to be an article. Maybe
(27:36):
that needs to be a long thread, right, maybe that
needs to be pictures. But it goes data should run
the way you move certain things. When it comes to
should I create this type of content or not?
Speaker 1 (27:52):
Does production quality matter anymore?
Speaker 2 (27:55):
No?
Speaker 3 (27:56):
No, no, We've seen too many videos go via road
that was on a bad Android.
Speaker 2 (28:03):
Sorry, and I love you, but it doesn't really matter.
Speaker 3 (28:10):
It goes like, like I have these three stages of
content creation. There's consistency, quality, and connection. Right, So consistency
means the most, and those made people are just so
bored of hearing of that.
Speaker 2 (28:25):
You're bored, but you.
Speaker 3 (28:26):
Haven't done it, so I don't know what I'm going
to continue to tell you. Right, So, consistency is like
and that doesn't mean every single day, just the timeframe
that you committed to. So if you're saying, yo, I'm
going to show up Monday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday and all
you have is your phone, Okay, do that right, because
(28:46):
your audience is going to care more about the presence
than the quality. Now, the quality does matter when you're
trying to be taking a little bit more serious. Right So,
but I will still my phone and do a green
screen because I connect with the people more.
Speaker 2 (29:04):
You don't want to be too too highly produced.
Speaker 3 (29:07):
Because then you lose a connection with the community. You've
seen too big time, right, And you don't want to
just do lower quality all the time because then it's like, ah,
you haven't really grown.
Speaker 2 (29:22):
Right If we look at Keith Lee, Keith Lee will.
Speaker 3 (29:26):
Forever do the phone videos, but he's taken a little
bit serious because other content that he's collabed with has
the highly produced content.
Speaker 2 (29:36):
Right.
Speaker 3 (29:36):
He's doing series, he's doing shows, he's doing commercials and
all these different things. So there's still a level of
high production. But still, let me keep to the core
of how I grew my audience to over millions of followers,
right So, Keith Lee is a perfect example of how
production isn't necessarily needed. It's great for balance, but it's
(29:59):
not needed to really have the brand that you want.
Speaker 1 (30:04):
How do we turn people Let's say I got ten
twenty thirty thousand followers. They seem to be relatively engaged.
How do we turn them into customers?
Speaker 3 (30:16):
So do we know what they really what their pain
points are? Right, So this is where we stop concentrating
on what creates the views and we have to concentrate
on what creates the engagement and the conversions.
Speaker 2 (30:31):
Right.
Speaker 3 (30:32):
So I'm going to be if I have a product,
clearly I have a solution to their problem. So I'm
going to start talking about their pain points in some way,
shape or form.
Speaker 2 (30:44):
Pain points can go.
Speaker 3 (30:45):
From motivation, education, entertainment. Like it's not just an educational vibe.
Speaker 2 (30:50):
Right.
Speaker 3 (30:51):
But if you are drowsy and I have an energy drink, right,
I'm going to put up different scenario for my night owls.
That is going to be like you're in front of
the computer dying, but you still have to finish this
one project. You may pop out the energy drink and
they're like, yo, what's that all right? What flavors do
(31:14):
you need at three o'clock in the morning.
Speaker 2 (31:17):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (31:18):
Right, Now you're creating conversation in a real life scenario.
So what are their pain points and how and what
is the content that you're creating to show that one
this is them and two what is the solution. When
they see the solution, this is where they go, I
may need that, but are you making them aware that
(31:40):
they even have a problem, right, So that example that
I showed that's going to connect with night owls and
they're like, yo, I know I felt this way at
one o'clock, two o'clock in the morning, and I still
needed just this one little pet And it could be
an energy drink that only gives me that extra hour
of boost.
Speaker 2 (31:58):
I don't need seven hours. I just need that one
extra hour boost. Boom.
Speaker 3 (32:03):
I'm gonna get that one, right. So you show different
scenarios of where your audiences it can be. That's what
turns into into dollars. That's what showing other people. User
generated content is another great, great way other people using
your product, other people using your services, because we don't
(32:27):
necessarily always want to be the first ones to buy.
Speaker 2 (32:30):
We want to always be like, oh, okay, all these
people are doing this. Okay, hold on, this may this
may be the thing I need to do.
Speaker 3 (32:38):
Hold on, let me show you so user generated content
showing just content of other people using it, it's going
to be fire. Testimonials is fire, but finding it in
the creative way.
Speaker 2 (32:51):
Stop.
Speaker 3 (32:52):
I don't know who needs to hear this. Stop posting
flyers sucks. No one engages with it horrible, right, leave
that for emails. Emails are fine, Instagram, Facebook, TikTok, LinkedIn
not so much.
Speaker 2 (33:08):
Leave it alone. It's old. So yeah, those are those
are different ways.
Speaker 1 (33:13):
You made a goal of hitting ten thousand subscribers on
YouTube by the end of September, and you did it
much earlier. Congratulations. What did you learn about that experience? Like,
because the YouTube algorithm seems to be the most challenging
for many creators, What did you learn about how did
(33:37):
you make your hap?
Speaker 2 (33:38):
It very.
Speaker 1 (33:40):
So?
Speaker 2 (33:41):
There was a few things that made it not as stressful. Right.
Speaker 3 (33:50):
A combination of a weekly post with a weekly live.
Reason why is because one one of them is going
to get out more to the masses, which is your
weekly post. Right. As long as you're consistent once a week,
you should be good, right, and then the live is
(34:15):
going to talk more on the trending topics. But as
well as build that community centered brand, right, as well
as keep up your watch hours. Everybody knows, especially if
you're going into the monetizing side of YouTube, you need
those four thousand watch hours to monetize. Now you do
(34:38):
five minute videos, twenty minute videos once a week, it's
gonna be a little bit slow, right. So the lives
help bring awareness and watch hours to your videos. Plus
it gives you more content to then chop up for
shorts or another post on YouTube.
Speaker 2 (34:58):
Right. But I think the the biggest, the biggest.
Speaker 3 (35:01):
Thing that I concentrated on on this ten k journey
was the thumbnails and the titles.
Speaker 2 (35:11):
I promise you.
Speaker 3 (35:13):
Every YouTuber understands the pain about that, because if they
don't click, it means nothing.
Speaker 2 (35:21):
I don't care how great your.
Speaker 3 (35:23):
Content is if they do not click, And the only
way they're going to click is if your thumbnail catches
attention and your title gives them that decision that this
is for me.
Speaker 2 (35:35):
Right.
Speaker 3 (35:36):
So it was testing out different colors, it was testing
out Okay, I'm only going to have two things on
my thumbnails and not seventeen different things. I'm going to
have sometimes words, sometimes I'm not going to have words
as And the biggest thing that helped with that was
the ab testing that YouTube enabled on everybody's account, right,
(36:00):
So you have when you have a video, always have
two to three thumbnails for that one video. Why because
even though we may like a thumbnail, it's us liking it.
Speaker 2 (36:14):
We don't know what the mass is like.
Speaker 3 (36:16):
So YouTube allows you to test out up to three
thumbnails and it goes every single day like, okay, does
the people like this one? Does the people like this one?
And it'll show you the percentage of what worked and
what doesn't, and it goes based off you know, watch time.
Speaker 2 (36:35):
Right, So even though I like this thumbnail, this one
got me three thousand more views, I'm going with that one.
I don't care if I like it or not. I'm
going with that one, right.
Speaker 3 (36:47):
I wish they did the same thing with titles. But
once you understand that formula with titles and thumbnails and
really being intentional with testing those things out instead of
just Okay, I'm gonna make the best videos ever. Great,
That is important on the second stage because now you
(37:09):
have to improve on your average view duration and your retention.
Speaker 2 (37:14):
That's important.
Speaker 3 (37:16):
But that thumbnail entitle to grab their attention when they
open up YouTube.
Speaker 2 (37:23):
That's super super important.
Speaker 3 (37:25):
So I put a lot of concentration on my thumbnails
and I'll tell, I'll tell, I use fiber. This is
not I have my own graphic designer who's testing it out.
Some of the top YouTubers will be like, I test
out one hundred thumbnails every video.
Speaker 2 (37:43):
I'm not there yet. I'm not there yet. I got
a I got a thumbnail. Person from fiber.
Speaker 3 (37:49):
He gives me about two thumbnails a video. I'm great,
I'm I'm absolutely fine. Now, when the money comes back up,
we'll may at an end design in a graphic designer
who just does thumbnails.
Speaker 2 (38:04):
We may do that. Right now, let me get to
about twenty k. You know what I mean, and we're good.
Speaker 1 (38:11):
So you don't think like kids Canva templates just that's
not what it is.
Speaker 2 (38:14):
No, No, do listen.
Speaker 3 (38:17):
The more that I can get off of my hands,
just so I can think of ideas and create, I'm
good with I'm not a graphic designer, right, but I do.
I know my audience is solopreneurs and solo creators, so
I will provide the templates and everything like that, but
I will strongly suggest please set ten to twenty dollars aside.
Speaker 2 (38:41):
Yeah, and give that to fiver.
Speaker 3 (38:44):
If you are serious about growing on YouTube, please invest
in that that because your time is worth way more
and you the more that you I'm I went through
a big creator burnout, so anything that can help you
from not getting creative burnout, I'm going to tell you, Hey,
(39:06):
get rid.
Speaker 2 (39:06):
Of the dumb.
Speaker 3 (39:07):
No, you have no business doing thumbnails no, no business.
Speaker 2 (39:12):
You you talk about teeth, you do nothing about you.
That is the graphic designer. Continue to talk about teeth.
That's it.
Speaker 1 (39:23):
That's what. That's what. So yesterday you are online, you're
talking about the importance of learning and growing in public,
and I love that and say, say more about that
just in general, talk talk more about that.
Speaker 3 (39:38):
So it goes It goes back to what we were
talking about earlier about like documenting in public. Right, I'm
noticing that more and more people are streating brands from
scratch and being like, you know, a bumpet, I'm going
to do it in public now. Some people have started
(40:01):
with zero followers doing it right, and some people have
done it with a little bit of followers or a
lot of followers.
Speaker 2 (40:09):
A good example like mister Grayful love him hello if
you don't know.
Speaker 3 (40:16):
He hasn't been on Instagram for a little bit, but
he was the guy that said, hey, chat GPT came out,
I'm going to try to get thirty k followers only
listening to chat EPT. And he got way more followers
and his post went viral because people are like, oh, wait,
you're you're really using this tool that we don't know
(40:36):
is going to work or not, and you're actually using it.
Speaker 2 (40:39):
Girl, Let's do it right.
Speaker 1 (40:42):
For me.
Speaker 3 (40:43):
I'm realizing this new chat gypt voice thing one is hilarious.
Speaker 2 (40:48):
Two it's just.
Speaker 3 (40:50):
Way more detailed based instead of especially for those people
who don't like to type a lot, like I could
just have a conversation. So so the research that I'm doing,
I'm like, okay, you know what, Let's do this in public.
Let's figure out this new voice feature in public. Let's
figure out this new hatline whatever we're trying to do
(41:11):
in public, because one it could work and it can
be successful, or two it could show what not to
do and that can still be successful because people are
still going to be impacted either way. That's my whole thing.
Like building in public creates impact, building in public also
(41:34):
creates supporters, good or bad. So with those benefits, why
wouldn't you create in public? Because having it all together
is great cool. I feel like it costs more money
if you don't do it. I could grab my phone
and be like, all right, I don't really feel like.
Speaker 2 (41:57):
Doing anything with my business today.
Speaker 3 (42:00):
I mean, like chack GBT told me some bs that
I'm not doing and somebody's like, yeah, I.
Speaker 2 (42:06):
Feel that way too.
Speaker 3 (42:08):
I took and then tell me all your self help
routines that you did to get you better.
Speaker 2 (42:15):
But it gates that situation.
Speaker 3 (42:17):
So that's why I'm like, let's do this in public,
because the impact is crazy when you do.
Speaker 1 (42:26):
Black Tech Green Money is a production of Blavity, Afro
Tech and the Black Effect podcast Networking Night Hire Immedia,
and it's produced by Morgan Debonne and me Well Lucas,
with the additional production support by Kate McDonald, say Ergan
and Jada McGee. Special thank you to Michael Davis in
Love Beach. Learn more about my guess other tech distructors
an innovators at afrotech dot com. Video version this episode
(42:47):
will drop to Black Tech Green Money on YouTube, So
tap in enjoy your Black Tech Green Money. Shit is
to somebody, go get your money. Peace in Love
Afrotech Conference is back, bringing together over twenty thousand tech enthusiasts, founders, investors,
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(00:42):
Afrotech Conference dot counted by your ticket Now. I'm me
Lucas and this is Black Tech, Green Money. Nicky Sonders
is a powerhouse in the world of content strategy and
personal branding. She's the content strategist and founder of Deeper
than the Brand, where she helps entrepreneurs, speakers, and creatives
grow their digital footprint authentically. She's best known for her
(01:05):
work with motivational speaker Eric Thomas, better known as et
what she helps scale his online community exponentially. She's passionate
about helping others turn their social media presence into a
vehicle for success using the power of storytelling, AI and
impactful strategy. So what goes wrong when I believe I
have a post that's fire and I post it and
(01:28):
it goes flat and nothing happens, nobody likes it? Like
what happens? Nikki? Help me out?
Speaker 2 (01:37):
I mean, it could be a few things like that.
That's such a broad questions, Like, it could be.
Speaker 3 (01:44):
The timing, It could be anything from you didn't have
the right hook.
Speaker 2 (01:49):
It could be the algorithm.
Speaker 3 (01:50):
There's a lot of things like it's I always look
at when I post and it goes flat, I look
at me first.
Speaker 1 (01:59):
Yeah right.
Speaker 3 (02:00):
I think it's easier to control what I post and
what I put out and what I create instead of
going ah, the algorithm is doing what it does.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
I was like, because I can't.
Speaker 3 (02:11):
I feel like that's a cop out when other people
numbers are clearly are doing Okay, I'm just feeling a
certain kind of way because no one's listening to me
at this moment.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
But then I have, like I look at it from
a standpoint of all right, visually, how does it look?
You know, what was the first three seconds? Did? I? Uh?
I keep their attention?
Speaker 3 (02:37):
Because depending on the platforms, if you get them to
listen through the whole way through, like that could be
a thing.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
So it's it's just it's a lot of things. It's
a lot of things.
Speaker 1 (02:47):
Our pictures on Instagram.
Speaker 3 (02:48):
Dad, No, No, it's just you feel me like you
got to put it extra loving it, So you may
have to put like some music, feel me. You may
have to make it into a carousel, so you may
have to say extra stories. You may have to be
a little bit more intentionals with the captions and make
(03:09):
it a little bit longer. What happens is what the
days of I post a picture and I say one sentence.
Now that's dead, let's just stop it. It doesn't even work.
But the more that they add features, we have to
pay attention to it. So they're allowing you to add
text to it, They're allowing you to add extra.
Speaker 2 (03:30):
Pictures on top of your pictures.
Speaker 3 (03:32):
So you look at, let's say, the different features that
are inside of Instagram, and you use them, it probably
better you reach for your post.
Speaker 1 (03:43):
And so what I learned, and this is a year
ago or more, what Instagram does is they count swipes
through your photo gallery as engagement. And so what I
wonder if because I actually enjoyed these particular types of
posts where there it's a gallery and like none of
the yotos match, like they just you know, maybe one
is a quote, another one is me eating, the next
(04:04):
one is you know, something random. I actually enjoy though,
so tell like, what is that about? Why are people
doing that? I enjoy it? But where did it come from?
What happened?
Speaker 3 (04:15):
So sometimes they follow a theme, right, Sometimes they could
be super just randomness, but it really gives you a
sense of personality of the person who's posting it or
the brand who's posting it, right, And so that's not
necessarily normal in the way that we normally post that.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
Now it's starting to be attractive.
Speaker 3 (04:41):
So when we're seeing, Okay, I have a picture of
me at the park, but then I have a funny
meme on the next one, and then I have a
deep quote, It's like I'm fully truly understanding who you
are as a person, rather than the thirty second sixty
second videos, ninety second videos that can be kind of
(05:05):
like staged and scripted. So sometimes we don't necessarily get
your full personality unless it's those types of posts or
even lives. That's why lives still kind of have a
little bit of energy to it because we get to
know who you are because you can't really lie on
a live It's just impossible as truly as possible.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
So I'm gonna ask a question. I'm gonna go the
long way around to ask this question because I think
this is important context. So we talk a lot about
how educational institutions don't teach financial literacy, and a lot
of them do now they're increasingly teaching financial literacy. And
I say that, you say this when we talk about
(05:47):
entrepreneurs and people who are trying to build businesses. Don't
post the struggle, but they post the highlights, so you
only see the highlight reel. But when you do post
the struggle or we find it difficul two post truckle,
I'll say that, so how do we solve for that?
So when we talk about the academic and they trying
to fix that. How do we fix you know, the
(06:08):
entrepreneur who's trying to show you that he's winning or
she's winning and they're finding success and therefore follow me.
I'm on a row somewhere, but that struggle, Like, I
don't want to sound like I'm on here doing the
Tyree's cry.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
You know what I mean, right, But the Tyresse cry
worked good or bad? It worked?
Speaker 1 (06:28):
You feel mean?
Speaker 3 (06:29):
So but I say that because I think now in
the season that we're in, the day in the life
is starting to get more play, then I fully got
it together, right. And those people who are actually taking
advantage of that is like gen Z and Jena, like Alpha,
(06:50):
like they're really going into day one of trying to
create a billion dollar brand, right, and they show everything
about it, good or bad. Those people who can't do that,
it's a self issue. It has nothing to do with
the algorithms, the platforms, Does the content work or not?
(07:13):
Because society culture is over.
Speaker 2 (07:16):
The highlight bils.
Speaker 3 (07:17):
We want the actual things that work or that doesn't work,
or I want to feel like I'm not alone anymore, right,
And so those people who are showing, hey, this is
how I.
Speaker 2 (07:32):
Do this, I don't know if it's right. I don't
know if it's like, but I'm going to do it anyways.
Speaker 3 (07:38):
It builds community, and so those brands are starting to
get more and more traction because it's community centered, it's
for the people. Whereas, yes, the ones that only show
the highlights are great, cool. You can look at it
more like as these are goals. I want to get there,
(08:00):
but I feel disconnected because you're already there and I'm not.
So I could look at you kind of like I
look at it more of like we do.
Speaker 2 (08:12):
The vision boards, so I could post.
Speaker 3 (08:16):
Your brand, your content on my vision board, but I don't, like,
I don't truly feel connected until I am there. Where
people who are posting about Okay I made ten dollars today, Okay,
I made three thousand dollars today, Okay it went back
to like four. Like, those are starting to get a
(08:38):
little bit more attraction. It's still not of the masses
just yet, but you start if you pay attention. It's
definitely more popular on TikTok at this moment, but it's
starting to make waves on YouTube, on Instagram, on Facebook
as well because people are just starting to like, are
just over the highlight reel.
Speaker 1 (09:00):
Yeah, I like that. So I asked Maddy, what are
the same question? And I'm gonna ask it to you too.
Like you know, I live in Teed, Ohio. I live
in a place it's not like an LA in New
York and Chicago where there's always like beautiful stuff to
pose and my life is amazing. I'm walking in this
place and I'm walking in that place and got the
little furry dog and life is wonderful and beautiful. TikTok beautiful,
(09:20):
but like and most of the people who listen to
this podcast are not in LA, New York, Chicago, et cetera.
So how do you how do you develop that day
in the life content when your life doesn't feel like
that kind of exciting?
Speaker 2 (09:36):
You just document what you do.
Speaker 3 (09:37):
So meaning I'm an introvert, so nine out of ten
times i'm in this area, I'm in front of computer
screens and that's it. The crazy thing is, I think
my life is boring, but other people don't.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
Right, your life sounds like my life. I'm sitting right
here eight hours a day in.
Speaker 3 (09:54):
The fjority of the time, but you're doing things that
people wish they could, like you feel what I'm saying.
So creating a podcast, creating any type of content, people
are like, yo, show me how right? Or how do
I create it? How do I have interviews like you?
Speaker 2 (10:14):
How do I ask? How do you prepare? How?
Speaker 3 (10:15):
Like we take for granted what we do every single
day because we do it every day and it's super easy.
But if we was to start documenting it and showing
that simple, simple format, do it on stories, see how
it does right? Because we as humans need to build momentum.
(10:37):
I need to know this works before I really put
all my energy to it, right, and so put in stories.
See like day in the life. Okay, boom, I'm walking
my dog. Okay, maybe that doesn't get that much views,
but okay, I'm about to bullet journal and write out
all my task.
Speaker 2 (10:56):
And how I'm feeling. And they're like, oh, you have
a routine.
Speaker 3 (10:59):
I'm like, yeah, right, okay, Like, okay, I went, I
went to the suna and cold plunge.
Speaker 2 (11:07):
You do that? I was like, yo, I talk about
content and AI all the time. Y'all concerned about when
I go to the sauna and cold plunge. That's crazy.
Speaker 1 (11:16):
Ye.
Speaker 3 (11:16):
So it's it's interesting to see that what we think
is not important, like it really is important to people
because there's a sense of your expertise and who you are.
And so you can show one only and then people
(11:37):
feel disconnected. So if you show both, Yo, I'm on
the I'm on the the journey of making my company
over six figures, right.
Speaker 2 (11:49):
But in the meantime, I gotta call my mom right,
make sure she's good.
Speaker 3 (11:53):
I gotta go and Instacart messed up, so I gotta
go to the joint over there and make yourself normal.
This is where storytelling comes in, and storytelling is the
key part of any brand if we pay attention to
anything right now, the ones that are killing it know
(12:14):
how to tell stories. This is why Nike has been
what they have because they know how to tell stories.
They're not selling shoes, they sell stories. Apples sell stories.
And so we look at the best and be like, Okay,
how do I turn a problem into a story?
Speaker 2 (12:32):
A relatable story?
Speaker 3 (12:34):
And so my boring life is going to be turning
into a story that can relate to somebody who lives
in Oklahoma right chilling in the crib, who may only
have a one bedroom at the time, but can see
like yo, it's not about the space, it's about the
(12:55):
story that you tell.
Speaker 1 (12:58):
So you caught a break working with Eric Thomas legendary
et where when you started working with him? What were
the what were those numbers?
Speaker 2 (13:08):
Like three hundred k at the time.
Speaker 1 (13:12):
That's Instagram YouTube? What was that?
Speaker 2 (13:14):
Yeah? Instagram?
Speaker 3 (13:16):
Uh, Facebook was about two hundred and something YouTube. I
don't nowhere near a million at the time, but yeah,
those those were what I was working with.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
And when you do did you stop working or when? Where?
Where did we go? How did Nicky grow this?
Speaker 2 (13:36):
I mean, we're still working with E. I love E.
I'm not going nowhere. I'm one of those loyal people like.
Speaker 3 (13:41):
I have my own stuff, but he's he's family. I'm
always going gonna make sure that he's good. Where are
we at now, that's why we're still rocking.
Speaker 1 (13:51):
Where we at now on numbers?
Speaker 3 (13:53):
Uh, over two million, two point two on Instagram, about
to hit one point five on YouTube, and we at
one point nine Facebook.
Speaker 2 (14:05):
Be acting crazy.
Speaker 3 (14:06):
We're literally at two million with Facebook, but like one
point nine mil right now.
Speaker 1 (14:11):
Yeah, this is what's so interesting to me because you
know he obviously he's dynamic, obviously. Yeah, but there's a
lot of dynamic people like what happened? How did that happen?
To triple, quadruple these numbers.
Speaker 3 (14:25):
So I concentrated more on what people wanted than necessarily
what the algorithm wanted or even what he wanted. So
if people are looking for bars from him, I'm going
I'm going to do that. The easiest way that we
made from like where he was to the first million
(14:49):
was I figured out the best quotes, the best bars
that everybody was loving, and I posted those things. So
anytime that he had us, anytime he had an event,
I would post exactly what the audience want, read the
comments and go, Okay, somebody's feeling this way, let's find
(15:09):
a message based off how they're feeling. Right, and really
went through the feedback based off what the people wanted.
Because if you cater to what your audience wants, they're
going to share it.
Speaker 2 (15:23):
I'm not here to fight that.
Speaker 3 (15:25):
I'm not going to be like, no, we're only going
to be posting about whatever we're selling, whatever we're doing.
Speaker 2 (15:32):
No, these platforms.
Speaker 3 (15:34):
Are for brand awareness, So I'm going to always do
different clips based off what people said. If there is
a sports event that just happened, then You're going to
see some images of that with EA's voice on it.
Speaker 2 (15:50):
That makes it more relevant. So figuring out the trends.
Speaker 3 (15:54):
Whether there's a sports event, whether there's something political, whatever,
whatever people are talking about that can be related to
what he's saying. Put it together. So between that and trends,
it grows. But I concentrated more on the content, the
body of that instead of just the tips and tricks
(16:17):
of the platforms.
Speaker 1 (16:18):
So were you anti or for repurposing the same content
across different platforms or does your Instagram content need to
be developed for Instagram.
Speaker 3 (16:30):
In the beginning, it was a little bit separate, right
because if we think about maybe just a couple of
years ago, there was different languages. But because of the
rise of short form videos, it's almost the same, right,
because you got reels on Instagram and Facebook, you got tiktoks,
(16:51):
you got YouTube shorts. YouTube shorts just made an announcement
saying that they could go up to three minute videos
starting somewhere in October, right, so it's going to be
the same. It's about how can you tell the story?
Speaker 2 (17:07):
Right?
Speaker 3 (17:08):
So in the beginning, yes, one was only taking long
form videos. The other one was only taking texts and pictures.
The other one was only taking thirty second videos. So
in the beginning, understanding the platforms, you have to do
a different strategy. Now it's starting to be repurposing it
in a strategic way, right, But even.
Speaker 2 (17:30):
That, like.
Speaker 3 (17:32):
How do you address each audience of the platform. So
for example, if I was saying the announcement of the
YouTube shorts making it up to three minutes, I would
do a green screen on TikTok saying, hey, YouTube shorts
are about to be three minutes. You could take your
tiktoks that are over a minute and put it on
(17:55):
YouTube shorts. If I was saying it on Instagram a
your videos that you do on Instagram reels, you could
put it on YouTube. Now I'm catering to each of
the audiences, so we would change the captions, we would
change the formats at certain points of whatever the energy
was going to be on that platform. But for the
(18:17):
most part, it was just like strategic repurposing. Like his
whole his whole content is repurpose content. There's this weekly
new stuff, but majority of it that you see where
in any major brands, it's all repurposed content.
Speaker 1 (18:35):
You know, timing matters so much in social media, and
I wonder, like, so like when I got, you know,
involved with afrotech. I went to my first Afrotech conference
back in twenty seventeen, and I was like the only
person back then vlogging every day. I was walking around
the whole conference like this come, vlogging all day long,
editing that night in the in my hotel room, publishing
(18:56):
that night Friday light like who is this guy? And
I did that every day at that conference. So that's
that's how I got on the radar of a lot
of the executives. And so I've so my question is this,
like how timing matters, Like now you go to aprote
everybody's doing that when I was when I did in
twenty seventeen, it was like one of maybe two people.
And so if I want to jump off the bridge
(19:18):
on YouTube, So there was a day where people would
just say, you know, I'm gonna do thirty days straight
of YouTube content, I'm like, shameless. Maya did this some
years ago. It might have even been a year, but
I think she for sure did it every day for
a month and she blew up. Does that still work today?
So if I said, you know, I want to pop
on YouTube. I'm gonna go hard. I'm gonna do thirty days.
(19:39):
I'm in, and hopefully by the end of that thirty days,
i'm up. I got my YouTube plaque coming. It's up.
Speaker 3 (19:47):
So I would have say you probably get a YouTube
plat guarantee, right, but I will say it does. It
does work for a few reasons. One, most people who
do that weren't consistent on it anyways. So now you're
building consistency. Any platform respects consistency, and once they start
(20:08):
seeing you post more and more, they're like, hold on,
let me let me push you out because you're here
every single day. Now, Hello, I kind of like you.
Now before I wasn't taking you serious, but now I
kind of like you, So let me post it to
As a as a creator, you get better. Right, your
(20:29):
day one to your day twenty five is going to
be completely different. So you're going to now start having
data of what works and what doesn't, and you're going hopefully,
hopefully you're going to change up some of your content
based off Okay, this got seven views, this one got
five thousand views. Hold on, what did I do? Let's
(20:50):
do this over right. So between the platform taking you serious,
and then you figuring out exactly what you're your audience
and the platform wants. On top of that, you're building
a community because people love journeys. They're either a trying
to champion you b trying to see if you're.
Speaker 2 (21:12):
Gonna finish or not, but they gonna watch you.
Speaker 3 (21:15):
They gonna watch you regardless, and so you're like, Yo,
this is day seventeen and I feel like quitting, right,
but I'm a post it. It's only probably gonna be
two minute long vlog.
Speaker 2 (21:26):
Today, but a we hear.
Speaker 3 (21:30):
People are gonna watch Okay, yo is he gonna it's
gonna make it to thirty up?
Speaker 2 (21:35):
We're eighteen, we're nineteen. Oh okay cool.
Speaker 3 (21:38):
And then also you're giving inspiration for other people to
be like, oh they did that, I could do this too, right,
And so the community, if anything, if you don't get
your plaque, you get a community that the second that
these thirty days finished, you could probably drop some merch
you could probably got paid commit you could probably do
(22:01):
an event, and they're going to be like, I'm invested,
Like I want to be a part of whatever else
you're doing. So there's a lot of benefits of doing
that if you are open to the totality of doing
things on a like a challenge base.
Speaker 1 (22:19):
But yeah, yeah, I like that. I like that. You know.
I was reading an interview you this some time ago,
and you said that your goal was to help people
feel comfortable telling their stories in a way that feels
true to them. There's a lot of vulnerability that comes
with being truly authentic online. We talked about, you know,
if I'm failing right now, there's this meme you know,
(22:40):
you talk about the day in the life of an
entrepreneur like I'm killing it. It's killing me, you know,
I'm doing it like I'm done, Like you know what
I mean. And so like there's real vulnerability with being authentic.
How do people get over that and share themselves publicly?
And when I got to go look at these people
in the phase now.
Speaker 3 (23:01):
Yeah, it's setting boundaries, right, You don't have to social
media is not a reality TV show. If you don't
want it to be right, you can do Like for me,
You're probably not going to see much of my mom,
much of my Grandma. Doesn't mean I don't love them.
It's just a boundary that I have. You may not
(23:23):
always see twenty four to seven of my relationship. It's
a boundary that I have. But you may hear in
certain seasons that I suffer through depression.
Speaker 2 (23:32):
Right.
Speaker 3 (23:33):
I'm not gonna say that every single day, but there
are certain seasons, especially if I know it's kind of
heavy and the creator burnout kind of season, that I
may talk about that. Right, there's certain I kind of
do a list of what I'm able to talk about
and what is non negotiable in this season, and then
what I may say depending on how I feel, how
(23:58):
the audience needs it, and it may stretch me, but
I'll be open to it to talk about it, right,
And that changes with every single season. Like some people
are like my kids are like non negotiable. I'm not
putting out my kids at all.
Speaker 2 (24:16):
And then they.
Speaker 3 (24:17):
Become fifteen years old and they became champion of something
and they want to just show them to just say, hey,
I love my baby, right, Like I don't really show him,
but I love my baby.
Speaker 1 (24:30):
Right.
Speaker 2 (24:31):
Yeah, it's going to change.
Speaker 3 (24:32):
But you as a creator, you as a business owner
turn creator too, gotta go. Okay, Yes, the main part
is the brand awareness. The main part is the expertise
experiences all that great stuff. But I'm open to this
and I'll say it here and there or I'll show
(24:55):
it here and there, because you're going to receive energy
of man, I didn't know that about you. That's so amazing. Yo,
I rock with you even more. Like remember, and sometimes
it won't be in the comments. It will be like
when you meet a person, Yo, I loved when you
(25:16):
said this, You're like, you watch that, you didn't comment,
didn't like that even know you followed like what are
you talking about?
Speaker 1 (25:23):
Nah?
Speaker 3 (25:23):
That really hit home to me for boom, Like, you
don't know the impact that you truly have. And as
long as you can feel comfortable showing it talking about it,
do it. But if you don't feel comfortable at all,
do not stress yourself out because that's just not authentic
(25:43):
to you and so you're going to be inconsistent with it.
Speaker 1 (25:47):
What is some general and specific things. When you go
to an entrepreneur, you go to the page on TikTok
they Instagram, you're like, you should stop doing that, Like
that's why that's killing your success, this limiting your opportunities.
Stop doing that. What do we do?
Speaker 3 (26:07):
There's a few things, and it's a preference right. My
thing is, I'm never gonna tell you not to do
something unless data shares that you shouldn't, right, Because I
may not be your audience, regardless if I'm auditing it,
I'm looking at it as a friend, whatever, I may
not be your audience. But if your data shows that
(26:27):
this is low numbers every single solitary time, FAM, you
may have to like, I know we don't want to quit,
but this one you may have to like put on
the bench for a little bit, like focus on what
does numbers right?
Speaker 2 (26:45):
And so it's just it's a true sit down.
Speaker 3 (26:48):
Every single month, Ay, I've put out between thirty to
ten pieces of content today, depending on how consistent you are.
Right this month I put out that in which ones
were the highest, which one were the lowest?
Speaker 2 (27:04):
What are my average numbers? Right?
Speaker 3 (27:06):
My lowest pieces of content? I really need to sit
down and be like, is it time to cut that out?
Speaker 2 (27:13):
Or do we go one more month?
Speaker 3 (27:15):
If we're in two months and we're not doing no numbers,
chill out, let it go, Maybe try it in another season.
I'm not saying let the idea go, but let's try
it a different season, or let's try to create it
in a different way in a different environment and different
kind of content formats. Maybe that doesn't need to be
a video. Maybe that needs to be an article. Maybe
(27:36):
that needs to be a long thread, right, maybe that
needs to be pictures. But it goes data should run
the way you move certain things. When it comes to
should I create this type of content or not?
Speaker 1 (27:52):
Does production quality matter anymore?
Speaker 2 (27:55):
No?
Speaker 3 (27:56):
No, no, We've seen too many videos go via road
that was on a bad Android.
Speaker 2 (28:03):
Sorry, and I love you, but it doesn't really matter.
Speaker 3 (28:10):
It goes like, like I have these three stages of
content creation. There's consistency, quality, and connection. Right, So consistency
means the most, and those made people are just so
bored of hearing of that.
Speaker 2 (28:25):
You're bored, but you.
Speaker 3 (28:26):
Haven't done it, so I don't know what I'm going
to continue to tell you. Right, So, consistency is like
and that doesn't mean every single day, just the timeframe
that you committed to. So if you're saying, yo, I'm
going to show up Monday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday and all
you have is your phone, Okay, do that right, because
(28:46):
your audience is going to care more about the presence
than the quality. Now, the quality does matter when you're
trying to be taking a little bit more serious. Right So,
but I will still my phone and do a green
screen because I connect with the people more.
Speaker 2 (29:04):
You don't want to be too too highly produced.
Speaker 3 (29:07):
Because then you lose a connection with the community. You've
seen too big time, right, And you don't want to
just do lower quality all the time because then it's like, ah,
you haven't really grown.
Speaker 2 (29:22):
Right If we look at Keith Lee, Keith Lee will.
Speaker 3 (29:26):
Forever do the phone videos, but he's taken a little
bit serious because other content that he's collabed with has
the highly produced content.
Speaker 2 (29:36):
Right.
Speaker 3 (29:36):
He's doing series, he's doing shows, he's doing commercials and
all these different things. So there's still a level of
high production. But still, let me keep to the core
of how I grew my audience to over millions of followers,
right So, Keith Lee is a perfect example of how
production isn't necessarily needed. It's great for balance, but it's
(29:59):
not needed to really have the brand that you want.
Speaker 1 (30:04):
How do we turn people Let's say I got ten
twenty thirty thousand followers. They seem to be relatively engaged.
How do we turn them into customers?
Speaker 3 (30:16):
So do we know what they really what their pain
points are? Right, So this is where we stop concentrating
on what creates the views and we have to concentrate
on what creates the engagement and the conversions.
Speaker 2 (30:31):
Right.
Speaker 3 (30:32):
So I'm going to be if I have a product,
clearly I have a solution to their problem. So I'm
going to start talking about their pain points in some way,
shape or form.
Speaker 2 (30:44):
Pain points can go.
Speaker 3 (30:45):
From motivation, education, entertainment. Like it's not just an educational vibe.
Speaker 2 (30:50):
Right.
Speaker 3 (30:51):
But if you are drowsy and I have an energy drink, right,
I'm going to put up different scenario for my night owls.
That is going to be like you're in front of
the computer dying, but you still have to finish this
one project. You may pop out the energy drink and
they're like, yo, what's that all right? What flavors do
(31:14):
you need at three o'clock in the morning.
Speaker 2 (31:17):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (31:18):
Right, Now you're creating conversation in a real life scenario.
So what are their pain points and how and what
is the content that you're creating to show that one
this is them and two what is the solution. When
they see the solution, this is where they go, I
may need that, but are you making them aware that
(31:40):
they even have a problem, right, So that example that
I showed that's going to connect with night owls and
they're like, yo, I know I felt this way at
one o'clock, two o'clock in the morning, and I still
needed just this one little pet And it could be
an energy drink that only gives me that extra hour
of boost.
Speaker 2 (31:58):
I don't need seven hours. I just need that one
extra hour boost. Boom.
Speaker 3 (32:03):
I'm gonna get that one, right. So you show different
scenarios of where your audiences it can be. That's what
turns into into dollars. That's what showing other people. User
generated content is another great, great way other people using
your product, other people using your services, because we don't
(32:27):
necessarily always want to be the first ones to buy.
Speaker 2 (32:30):
We want to always be like, oh, okay, all these
people are doing this. Okay, hold on, this may this
may be the thing I need to do.
Speaker 3 (32:38):
Hold on, let me show you so user generated content
showing just content of other people using it, it's going
to be fire. Testimonials is fire, but finding it in
the creative way.
Speaker 2 (32:51):
Stop.
Speaker 3 (32:52):
I don't know who needs to hear this. Stop posting
flyers sucks. No one engages with it horrible, right, leave
that for emails. Emails are fine, Instagram, Facebook, TikTok, LinkedIn
not so much.
Speaker 2 (33:08):
Leave it alone. It's old. So yeah, those are those
are different ways.
Speaker 1 (33:13):
You made a goal of hitting ten thousand subscribers on
YouTube by the end of September, and you did it
much earlier. Congratulations. What did you learn about that experience? Like,
because the YouTube algorithm seems to be the most challenging
for many creators, What did you learn about how did
(33:37):
you make your hap?
Speaker 2 (33:38):
It very.
Speaker 1 (33:40):
So?
Speaker 2 (33:41):
There was a few things that made it not as stressful. Right.
Speaker 3 (33:50):
A combination of a weekly post with a weekly live.
Reason why is because one one of them is going
to get out more to the masses, which is your
weekly post. Right. As long as you're consistent once a week,
you should be good, right, and then the live is
(34:15):
going to talk more on the trending topics. But as
well as build that community centered brand, right, as well
as keep up your watch hours. Everybody knows, especially if
you're going into the monetizing side of YouTube, you need
those four thousand watch hours to monetize. Now you do
(34:38):
five minute videos, twenty minute videos once a week, it's
gonna be a little bit slow, right. So the lives
help bring awareness and watch hours to your videos. Plus
it gives you more content to then chop up for
shorts or another post on YouTube.
Speaker 2 (34:58):
Right. But I think the the biggest, the biggest.
Speaker 3 (35:01):
Thing that I concentrated on on this ten k journey
was the thumbnails and the titles.
Speaker 2 (35:11):
I promise you.
Speaker 3 (35:13):
Every YouTuber understands the pain about that, because if they
don't click, it means nothing.
Speaker 2 (35:21):
I don't care how great your.
Speaker 3 (35:23):
Content is if they do not click, And the only
way they're going to click is if your thumbnail catches
attention and your title gives them that decision that this
is for me.
Speaker 2 (35:35):
Right.
Speaker 3 (35:36):
So it was testing out different colors, it was testing
out Okay, I'm only going to have two things on
my thumbnails and not seventeen different things. I'm going to
have sometimes words, sometimes I'm not going to have words
as And the biggest thing that helped with that was
the ab testing that YouTube enabled on everybody's account, right,
(36:00):
So you have when you have a video, always have
two to three thumbnails for that one video. Why because
even though we may like a thumbnail, it's us liking it.
Speaker 2 (36:14):
We don't know what the mass is like.
Speaker 3 (36:16):
So YouTube allows you to test out up to three
thumbnails and it goes every single day like, okay, does
the people like this one? Does the people like this one?
And it'll show you the percentage of what worked and
what doesn't, and it goes based off you know, watch time.
Speaker 2 (36:35):
Right, So even though I like this thumbnail, this one
got me three thousand more views, I'm going with that one.
I don't care if I like it or not. I'm
going with that one, right.
Speaker 3 (36:47):
I wish they did the same thing with titles. But
once you understand that formula with titles and thumbnails and
really being intentional with testing those things out instead of
just Okay, I'm gonna make the best videos ever. Great,
That is important on the second stage because now you
(37:09):
have to improve on your average view duration and your retention.
Speaker 2 (37:14):
That's important.
Speaker 3 (37:16):
But that thumbnail entitle to grab their attention when they
open up YouTube.
Speaker 2 (37:23):
That's super super important.
Speaker 3 (37:25):
So I put a lot of concentration on my thumbnails
and I'll tell, I'll tell, I use fiber. This is
not I have my own graphic designer who's testing it out.
Some of the top YouTubers will be like, I test
out one hundred thumbnails every video.
Speaker 2 (37:43):
I'm not there yet. I'm not there yet. I got
a I got a thumbnail. Person from fiber.
Speaker 3 (37:49):
He gives me about two thumbnails a video. I'm great,
I'm I'm absolutely fine. Now, when the money comes back up,
we'll may at an end design in a graphic designer
who just does thumbnails.
Speaker 2 (38:04):
We may do that. Right now, let me get to
about twenty k. You know what I mean, and we're good.
Speaker 1 (38:11):
So you don't think like kids Canva templates just that's
not what it is.
Speaker 2 (38:14):
No, No, do listen.
Speaker 3 (38:17):
The more that I can get off of my hands,
just so I can think of ideas and create, I'm
good with I'm not a graphic designer, right, but I do.
I know my audience is solopreneurs and solo creators, so
I will provide the templates and everything like that, but
I will strongly suggest please set ten to twenty dollars aside.
Speaker 2 (38:41):
Yeah, and give that to fiver.
Speaker 3 (38:44):
If you are serious about growing on YouTube, please invest
in that that because your time is worth way more
and you the more that you I'm I went through
a big creator burnout, so anything that can help you
from not getting creative burnout, I'm going to tell you, Hey,
(39:06):
get rid.
Speaker 2 (39:06):
Of the dumb.
Speaker 3 (39:07):
No, you have no business doing thumbnails no, no business.
Speaker 2 (39:12):
You you talk about teeth, you do nothing about you.
That is the graphic designer. Continue to talk about teeth.
That's it.
Speaker 1 (39:23):
That's what. That's what. So yesterday you are online, you're
talking about the importance of learning and growing in public,
and I love that and say, say more about that
just in general, talk talk more about that.
Speaker 3 (39:38):
So it goes It goes back to what we were
talking about earlier about like documenting in public. Right, I'm
noticing that more and more people are streating brands from
scratch and being like, you know, a bumpet, I'm going
to do it in public now. Some people have started
(40:01):
with zero followers doing it right, and some people have
done it with a little bit of followers or a
lot of followers.
Speaker 2 (40:09):
A good example like mister Grayful love him hello if
you don't know.
Speaker 3 (40:16):
He hasn't been on Instagram for a little bit, but
he was the guy that said, hey, chat GPT came out,
I'm going to try to get thirty k followers only
listening to chat EPT. And he got way more followers
and his post went viral because people are like, oh, wait,
you're you're really using this tool that we don't know
(40:36):
is going to work or not, and you're actually using it.
Speaker 2 (40:39):
Girl, Let's do it right.
Speaker 1 (40:42):
For me.
Speaker 3 (40:43):
I'm realizing this new chat gypt voice thing one is hilarious.
Speaker 2 (40:48):
Two it's just.
Speaker 3 (40:50):
Way more detailed based instead of especially for those people
who don't like to type a lot, like I could
just have a conversation. So so the research that I'm doing,
I'm like, okay, you know what, Let's do this in public.
Let's figure out this new voice feature in public. Let's
figure out this new hatline whatever we're trying to do
(41:11):
in public, because one it could work and it can
be successful, or two it could show what not to
do and that can still be successful because people are
still going to be impacted either way. That's my whole thing.
Like building in public creates impact, building in public also
(41:34):
creates supporters, good or bad. So with those benefits, why
wouldn't you create in public? Because having it all together
is great cool. I feel like it costs more money
if you don't do it. I could grab my phone
and be like, all right, I don't really feel like.
Speaker 2 (41:57):
Doing anything with my business today.
Speaker 3 (42:00):
I mean, like chack GBT told me some bs that
I'm not doing and somebody's like, yeah, I.
Speaker 2 (42:06):
Feel that way too.
Speaker 3 (42:08):
I took and then tell me all your self help
routines that you did to get you better.
Speaker 2 (42:15):
But it gates that situation.
Speaker 3 (42:17):
So that's why I'm like, let's do this in public,
because the impact is crazy when you do.
Speaker 1 (42:26):
Black Tech Green Money is a production of Blavity, Afro
Tech and the Black Effect podcast Networking Night Hire Immedia,
and it's produced by Morgan Debonne and me Well Lucas,
with the additional production support by Kate McDonald, say Ergan
and Jada McGee. Special thank you to Michael Davis in
Love Beach. Learn more about my guess other tech distructors
an innovators at afrotech dot com. Video version this episode
(42:47):
will drop to Black Tech Green Money on YouTube, So
tap in enjoy your Black Tech Green Money. Shit is
to somebody, go get your money. Peace in Love
Host
Will Lucas
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On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!