April 29, 2025 • 33 mins
Ep. 213 Christopher Gray is the Founder and CEO at Path, an AI-powered platform transforming the way students and professionals prepare for critical exams. Before Path, he co-founded Scholly, an app that helped students find scholarships for college and pay off student debt. The company was acquired by Sallie Mae in 2023.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
I'm with Lucas and this is black tech, Green money.
Christopher Gray is the CEO and founder of Path in
AI power platform transforming the way students and professionals prepare
for critical exams. Before Path, Christopher co founded Scolli and
That to help students find scholarships for college and pay
off student debt. Scolly gained national attention on ABC Shark Tank,
(00:25):
securing a deal with Damie John and Lord Grinder and
sparking the biggest debate and shows history. With over five
million users, Skolly helps students secure over one hundred million
in scholarships and was ultimately acquired by Sally May. So
you are already a successful founder. You've already built, you know,
one amazing company in Scollie. And I wonder, you know,
(00:49):
before we talk about what you're doing now, I wonder.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
Like, what did you learn?
Speaker 1 (00:52):
Like what is the hardest lesson you learned while scaling
that company?
Speaker 3 (00:57):
I think that you know, the thing I learned about
scaling that organization is really really being mindful of having
the right business model from the start. I think that
you know and thinking about that. I launched the company
on charting. So I was in college and three months
where I graduated, So I really honestly didn't know what
(01:17):
I was doing. I half my co founder and if
you developers in a room, we were just getting all
that traffic, so really thinking, you know, and that was
like really the biggest one of the biggest high traffic
moments from the start, you know, since we've had so
I think, you know, reallyant and our at was nine
and nine since so and we yeah, exactly, so I
think you kind of give off going to see who
(01:38):
I want to go for right.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
I was like, I'm going to be get super apported
for everyone and that would be good.
Speaker 3 (01:42):
And the time when we literally got probably one hundred
plus style and light down within two months, you know,
you know, that would have been a lot more if
you know, you know, if you know, had the right
business model. So I think they can know a lot
of right businessmaller from the start is important, and I
think a lot of founders actually don't do that at all.
You have these companies that oh, I'm make my up
free and and figure it out in five years and
then they run out of money and then you know
(02:03):
all that. So I do think having the right thinking
about the right business and all of them to start
with something that I did.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
I was really young.
Speaker 3 (02:09):
I was twenty two when I was doing it, so
now that it's not the here there, but that was
something that I.
Speaker 2 (02:14):
Think was something that I would.
Speaker 3 (02:16):
I learned that that now I'm doing at day one
with this new company.
Speaker 1 (02:21):
Yeah, and I think about something that you know, which
I'm you're obviously aware of, and that you know, business
is designed to sell, like whether you I PO, whether
you sell it to somebody else it's acquired, or you're
you become an acquirer of other businesses. That's what it's
designed for. And I'm curious in how you think about
your thinking going into Skye Like is this someonody, Oh,
(02:42):
I wanted to do this forever and then you just realize, okay,
you have to sell this thing at some point. And
how you think now about you said, you know, starting
things from the beginning, How do you think about going
into a new company that that.
Speaker 2 (02:55):
Kind of mindset.
Speaker 3 (02:56):
Yeah, So I think that when I started Skylle, it
was literally like a few years right after like Instagram
sold for a billion dollars and it was just it
was still the series of a lot of these acquisitions
were still new it was actually right before there was
a lot of wave of excess. It was more like
that big funding period where everyone was getting raising a
lot of money as more.
Speaker 2 (03:16):
So before with a lot of exits.
Speaker 3 (03:17):
Right, So when I was thinking about Scholar, I was
just thinking, Okay, I'm gonna You're gonna just build this,
and you want to get to everyone had this, get
to a million users and all that stuff. So I
would say thinking about that in mind. Actually when I
build the company, to be completely honest, I wasn't thinking
about Okay, how can I build this, you know, to
sell the company.
Speaker 2 (03:33):
I was really more self and.
Speaker 3 (03:34):
How I was going to build a business, how I
was going to make it grow again, you know, and
also just being at that point in my career, which
again that being literally my first job. I think that
was something I was thinking through. However, in hindsight, when
I went through the exit process when we got acquired
by Sally May, you went through the diligence process and
you went through you know, it just also just and
(03:55):
even Scholar is actually possible. I only raised four hundred K,
so I was I had a majority of equitumic company
and I have deal boards. That was all well for me,
and it was ultimately my decision to sell. But I
think when you go through that exit process, you really go.
But one, you have to give them all these documents
from the time of the things of your business, all
your metrics, and I think that you go, you look
(04:16):
back and press reset and you will oh, now I
see how you know? These venture backed companies build a
company from the exit right. And that goes back to
my question, your question about about the business model.
Speaker 2 (04:26):
You think about every little piece of the right and
the product.
Speaker 3 (04:29):
Who can be like right now, like with this new
company path, already I already have thought about who could
the potential requires be What is the right business model?
Because when you think about getting acquired, people just think, oh,
I'm going to build something and someone's just gonna Facebook
is gonna like buy your business, not necessarily like why
would Facebook want your business?
Speaker 2 (04:45):
Right?
Speaker 3 (04:46):
So you really have to start thinking about that and
even all way down toward grain your level. Hey, where
financially you want to be when you sell? Right, is
it twenty million revenue? It's a thirty million in revenue, right,
what could the multipleon on that be?
Speaker 2 (04:57):
Right? So understanding that because the thing is even if
you are not doing.
Speaker 3 (05:01):
That, the vcs who are investing you are gonna do that, right,
They're not gonna they're investing you with the exit. They
have analysts who are doing that. These exercises says how
big can this business be? And all that. So I
grew the profitable route and grew styled to be that.
But I have seen now starting this venture route that
even if you're not doing that, those vcs are doing it.
So you really it's good for you to assessicize an
(05:22):
opportunity because to your point, if you are a lot
of there's a lot of conversation the Black commedy. When
I sold a salad made people are like you sold
out and all the stuff that people don't understand if
you take someone US's money. We took a little bit
of money, but the sharks and other people, when you
take someone else's money, they have to get it back,
and nine times out of ten they.
Speaker 2 (05:40):
Have to get that back through an exit. And that's
something that.
Speaker 3 (05:43):
Isn't well known in the black in the mainstream Black community,
that capital cannot be taken without it being returned and
the exod is the way to do that. So thinking
about what an extra strategy could look like is really
important to think about in the beginning of their journey.
It's not being transactional, it's just understanding the reality of
growing up business and and the and and and the
liquidity events that.
Speaker 2 (06:04):
Have to come with them.
Speaker 1 (06:06):
What pulls you to the education space, you know, it
seems like that's like your Yeah, that's your thing.
Speaker 3 (06:14):
I think that you know, for me, I I like
to solve problems that you know that are really relevant.
So I'm originally for Birmingham, Alabama. I actually only a
a small fraction of the students who in Alabama who
graduate high school are reading.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
At a third grade level. That's very well known.
Speaker 3 (06:30):
Testing isn't grade and you know that's in federal I
mean it's just been a whole wasn't but it's yeah.
So like I went to a Magne High school, so
I was fortunate where the students, but the think that high
school went to college. But the master of the system,
I think probably around ten percent of people go to
college five even way way less than I even graduate.
And they're all are going to a lot of which
are going to college at third graae level. So I
(06:51):
saw the disparity of education and I saw that it
wasn't you know, and I and I saw two things
out of those environments. I saw access to paying for
college and access to resources to prepare for exams and
other things to get you into to get you into college,
and also just being able to have, you know, things
outside of maybe your school environment to be able to
do so.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
For me, I look at you know, I was likely
to do test well.
Speaker 3 (07:14):
I was, I was likely to do do well in school,
but I saw the I saw other people just just didn't.
So for me, those those were pain points that were
really important to me. And I see, I saw the
impact of education happening in my life. I'm a first
generation college student, you know, obviously, and as you can
see with starting a company, selling a company, having wealth
and all that stuff like that is my family well
(07:34):
like like that that's completely a foreign concept to them.
So I still and all that was due because I
got scholarship to go to college.
Speaker 2 (07:41):
So I saw how transformer that can be.
Speaker 3 (07:43):
And I and also as a businessman, I have learned
that anything anything that can impact someone's life, anything that
can provide value to a to a personal organization, you
can wrap a business model around it. So it doesn't
have to be mutually exclusive, so I can help a
lot of people and then and still be able to
do it in a way that scales. Because I was
when I started Scholar, I was thinking about the nonprofit stuff,
(08:05):
and I'm like, I don't want to be someone literally
every day hosting found raisers and asking people begging people
for money.
Speaker 2 (08:10):
I want people to be able to give me.
Speaker 3 (08:12):
I want to be able to raise money through revenue
and being able to turn someone's investment. So education has
just been so pivotal to my life. So it's something
that's really really important for me to do. Even with
Scholar and now what I'm dealing with.
Speaker 1 (08:23):
Path, yeah and now and I want to get into
that and I think about that in talking about path,
what is what is that eureka moment we said, this
is the idea. And here's why I asked this question
is because I think sometimes we just have in doing scholar,
you might have said, oh, there's this other vertical that
one day I'm going to touch that thing this because
(08:44):
there's a problem there, Or you can just be purely opportunistic,
like I see a gap. Ain't nobody doing this or
any nobody doing it how I can do it, or
something you're really really passionate about, like what is that
thing for a path for you? And then we'll talk
about what it is.
Speaker 3 (08:57):
Yeah, so I think that is it was. It's really
three things, right, I think one one exactly. So one
of the biggest things I actually wanted to try to
get into into SKALI if we grew and expanded was
test prep. So one of the biggest things that I
had challenges with was being able to pay for the expensive.
Speaker 2 (09:15):
Example, so when I was when I was going to college.
Speaker 3 (09:18):
In twenty ten, it was Princeton Review Kaplan all their
courses like twelve hundred dollars. Like I just told you,
I was first generation student like my mom, we could
validate our bills for like fifty dollars, So that just
wasn't even their question, right.
Speaker 2 (09:30):
So you would see all the you know, the white kids.
Speaker 3 (09:33):
From the more upper middle class schools or Wether school
doing really well on these tests. But then you would
find out when you go through these different programs, their
parents are paying thousands of dollars to prep them for
these exams, right then, just they just prepare for that, right,
And I think that you know, AI and I think
so was it was kind of a perfect you know,
I can't a perfect trinity of things. Were Okay, here's
(09:54):
this thing, but you know you have to create all
this content.
Speaker 2 (09:57):
Oh look at your AI and you see that.
Speaker 3 (10:00):
Now this is this moment of opportunistic I can do
this Princeton Review needs to do because they need to
pay all these instructors. They need to go out through
this content manually. A I can really do that. But
I didn't want to. Just think about college admission, all
those exams and things that you know, those students who
are reading at the third grade level in Alabama, we
have an AI model that can generate those exams as well.
And actually if people are not doing well on them,
(10:21):
we can actually help them generate too, you know, tutoring
and step by steff solutions to help them learn. So
I thought about, you know, when I was growing up, Okay,
what are these barriers?
Speaker 2 (10:31):
Right?
Speaker 3 (10:31):
One, it was, you know, being able to get into
college or do well, to get the rights, all the
all the scholarship you want because of this bearer.
Speaker 2 (10:38):
That's things.
Speaker 3 (10:38):
And as you know, with the current administration, there was
just a letter they just sent out a month or
two ago called deer to call deer colleague, which is
to all universities telling them that they have that them
them not requiring standardized tests of ATT and ATT would
be considered would be considered discrimination, meaning that they took
(10:59):
their saying that they took those tests away in order
for DEI purposes, So they have to bring them back.
So now actually we're gonna we're now our business is
gonna be great for our business. So yeah, So then
so it was definitely opportunities. It's like, hey, generally I
can do this thing really well and I can create
a good business all around it because now I can
use this make it more affordable and you know, and
(11:20):
it's just really being an issue that I was really
passionate about because that was the big thing because I
don't believe, you know, I think it's really hard to
instill ambition and students and family and really go and
change a lot. But I do believe that there are
a lot of students, especially students of color, who are motivated,
who are belittled and called dumb simply because they can't
afford tutors.
Speaker 2 (11:40):
They can't afford these things.
Speaker 3 (11:42):
And I think AI has presented a really, really dope
opportunity to put that in front of them, make it
affordable and be able to help them level the playing field.
And I think the era in this political environment that
we're in right now where everything goes back to the states,
that means that states can determine any you know, all
of them. They can say, you know what, your kid
can't graduate if they don't make a thirty on MS.
(12:03):
But it was not realistic a thirty on AC. What
did we go to that kind of environment, kind of discriminatory,
inequitable environment. You know, I think Path is positioned to
do to jump in there and be a solution for that.
Speaker 1 (12:16):
Yeah, you just said something that I found really interesting,
and it makes me think about Rama Manuel. I remember saying,
I'm sure he wasn't the first person to say it,
and this was during Obama's term. He said, you know,
never let a good crisis go to waste, And that
is always stuck with me because even I've had there
was opportunities that I got that I could not have
gotten other than COVID happened. And I recognized that COVID
(12:40):
was as devastating as it was, but there it created
a landscape for opportunity in some ways.
Speaker 2 (12:45):
For me.
Speaker 1 (12:45):
I can tell you, you know, there was some real
estate I bought that it wouldn't have been on the
market at the price it was had COVID I happened,
and other things. And you just mentioned like you know,
this new thing legislation will create opportunities for your business.
And I'm curious in how you think we as founders
should be thinking or creators innovators should think about opportunity
(13:07):
when we could just walk around with hair on fire,
but instead look for opportunities.
Speaker 3 (13:13):
Yeah, I think that when whether the stock market is down,
whether there's a COVID COVID ninety pac, whether we have
a new lolical administration, there's always money been made in chaos,
and most of the people who are creating the chaos
are doing it with they intend to make money in someone.
Speaker 2 (13:30):
Right, That's just life, right.
Speaker 3 (13:31):
I think when you're younger, and I think when you're
in your vot, I don't. But now, as a as
a person that has tend a decade, over a decade
and text based met a lot of wealthy people and
many of my peers and friends and things like that,
I know how the game works, right, Like it's like
they create chaos of course, you know, I mean look
at bitcoin, right, Oh my god, bitcoin is horrible. It's
(13:52):
the death, it's the devil, and blah blah blah. Nah,
it goes down superlow, everyone low key buys it all suddenly.
Now without now we have federal Now we have federal
you know, legislation around it, and now it's going to
go up. Right, stock market dropping and the president of
when in any any former time with the President of
the United States, as they'll say, oh, I'm not gonna
(14:13):
really out of a recession. Stock markets drop, and then
I guess what. Then all my friends in hedge funds
and then banking are talking about what they're buying up like.
Speaker 2 (14:21):
This stuff is like a game. Right.
Speaker 3 (14:22):
So for us, you know, I think that look at
that chaos, find their opportunity buying industries that are being affected.
And like you did, you know, real estate, Like look
at d C if I would say somebody in dc
W with all these layoffs happen, and I'd be looking
at buying real estate up in the d MD because
it's about to be a ghost town there, right, So
so I think of that, and then I think for us,
you know, education, right, he really wants to really they
(14:44):
really want to jump and harp on education. But in
a way we're using things that are historically embarrassed to
people of color, which is standardized testing. Right if you
put and say okay, kids can't get into a college
or get scholarships for their art testing, less of us
are going to go. If you say, oh, your kids
can't graduate grade is they don't pass this state exam
in Florida or where I'm from, Alabama, you would have
(15:04):
black kids or literally just stuck and the ultimately giving
up and doing that.
Speaker 2 (15:08):
Right, So I do think in that chaos there's.
Speaker 3 (15:10):
An opportunity, but there's always opportunity, and there's always orchestrated
the chaos, and those people who are orchestrating their chaos
are creating their chaos to make money for themselves.
Speaker 1 (15:19):
It's so interesting. So let's talk about what path is
for people you know, assigned from you know, touching on
you know what it does? How much you either give
the elevator pitch for a path.
Speaker 2 (15:29):
If you would.
Speaker 3 (15:31):
Yeah, So, so path is we're in Jerrybody platform simply
around exam prep. So we created an AI model very
specifically around helping students prepare for exams and also predict
whether they're going to make on the exam.
Speaker 2 (15:44):
Before they take it.
Speaker 3 (15:45):
So we cover exams from KT twelve exams, so like
the exams that every student in the state has to take,
like for them, the New York Regents or New York
State Exam, the Texas Star Exam, TSA Exam, et cetera.
We also we also cover college admissions exams like ACT
SAT and p SAT, and then we cover grad school
(16:06):
exams like GMATT lsad GRE and even professional certifications like
come to your INCLUX.
Speaker 2 (16:11):
And what we do is provide you. We use general
AI to prisee.
Speaker 3 (16:14):
You unlimited practice exams, unlimited practice, and then we then
take that data and then be able to predict whether
you're going to pass the tests or not.
Speaker 2 (16:21):
So most of these so and we're all in because we're.
Speaker 3 (16:24):
Able to use general of AI, we're able to be
able to provide that for like just like sixty dollars
right versus you paying and everything runner one subscription and
not instead of being able to pay twelve going to
caplan and paying twenty five hundred dollars for GMAT prep,
So we're able to give you better.
Speaker 2 (16:41):
We get it.
Speaker 3 (16:41):
We're able to give you premium quality content, unlimited practice,
predict whether you're going to make what you're gonna make
on the test where you take it, which means that
you don't have to score and spend money until your shit.
You're gonna make the score you're going to make, and
we're able to and we're able to do it for
a super affordable rate, which makes it accessible. So going
back to my earlier point when this pandemonium happens where
everyone's freaking out because now I need to make a
(17:02):
certain score or I need to pass or a certain
score to make that s you to graduate or do this.
Now we can swoop in and be able to say, okay,
now we have that we can give you that make
it more affordable, predict what you're going to make for
you taking that, not.
Speaker 2 (17:13):
Just saying oh, here's a bunch of practice.
Speaker 3 (17:15):
We can actually predict it you're going to make and
Benity do that so and doing that through a super
boat user interface.
Speaker 2 (17:19):
So that's what kind of what we're doing.
Speaker 3 (17:20):
Focusing on exam across the ward from literally third grade
all the way up until you go to grad school.
And mean even if you need professional certifications like inclex
healthcare and it exams like a your comet, et cetera.
Speaker 1 (17:35):
You know, you've got your finger on the pulse of
what's happening with AI and education. And I wonder there
are a lot of parents, a lot of folks who
still believe there's no place for AI in education. It's
it's you know, a crutch or you know, we'll do
it for you. Is that shifting number one into how should.
Speaker 2 (17:56):
We think about it?
Speaker 3 (17:59):
I think that I think that what's happening is a
lot of a lot of students who are in gen
X are using JEND, are using or using AI in
any way right, and a lot of parents are now
seeing that their students are using these tools.
Speaker 2 (18:15):
I don't know, you guys.
Speaker 3 (18:16):
There was actually a parent suing actually now suing the
school because her daughter actually graduated and was illiterate, but
she was passing all her doing, passing all her tests
exam because she's use the text of speech and AI
to do to do all her work for so and
her and her friends. So now she graduated completely literate,
(18:37):
and she couldn't but she graduates, she couldn't do well
in college. So you saw, so you see that even
happening when you know that, right, So, I think you're
going to see people. It's all happening so fast that
I think it's creating a cultural amount of cognitive dissonance
in our community. But I think it's going to be
ubiqulous because it's going to be these students who are
(18:58):
growing up with this technology now is going to be
just commonplace for them, and we're going to have to
adapt to that.
Speaker 2 (19:03):
But I do think it's moving so so fast.
Speaker 3 (19:06):
There was a there was an AI image of two actors,
like two male actors pertaining like they were in a couple,
and I'm like, I'm thinking of myself.
Speaker 2 (19:15):
That's mortifying, right, Like, So that stuff prevents fear.
Speaker 3 (19:18):
But I do think for education, I do think it
provides a way where we can equalize things because if
everyone had access to the same quality tutors and education
at an affordable rate, I think that does within an
opportunity for for us to really be able to take
advantage of that and and be able to kind of
close some of the gaps rather than focusing on all
(19:38):
the terminator or AI and matrix kind of scenarios.
Speaker 1 (19:44):
You know, there's an unfortunate trend that there's a lot
of founders who do exit and don't even make any
money in the exit. Maybe they were just too diluted,
or they didn't know how to structure deals or et cetera.
How did what wealth building lessons did you you learn
in your journey.
Speaker 2 (20:01):
As a founder? Yeah, so that was really unique.
Speaker 3 (20:05):
So one of my first investors was, you know, like
first Round Capital with Josh coffin First On Capital and
and the and some others, And I was kind.
Speaker 2 (20:15):
Of I was a part of Dorman from one of
their first their first actually team in.
Speaker 3 (20:19):
Philly and I and we and we knew a lot
of the investors in company their first round investment. I've
had the opportunity over the years to see friends sell
their companies and you're hundre percent right, sometimes like these exits.
Speaker 2 (20:34):
What they are are not what they seem.
Speaker 3 (20:37):
And a lot of times people don't talk about liquidation
preferences and dilution and all the terms that founders accept
like I have. Like there are people that will sell
their companies that people don't know. Some in some instances
they were forced to sell by their board to return
their front and the founders made nothing like there was
actually a recent examples in tech Crunch this real estate
(20:59):
a company sold for a billion dollars. Founders and early
employees made nothing, right, so people don't talk about that.
I think it's important. I think it's I think it's
so for me. I group scholarly profitly. But through that
process of selling the company, I inadvertently learned, oh my god,
Like I know, I seen X by a person sell
(21:22):
their company for thisbi or whatever. I made infinitely more
take home money in my pocket than they made.
Speaker 2 (21:28):
Like you you got.
Speaker 3 (21:29):
I'm talking about people selling their comfort of two hundred
and fifty million and walking away with two million dollars
right like like just like after ten years of work,
right where so like that is just something that is
really really really important. And I think that I think
it's important for founders, and I think AI has presented
an opportunity where you are able to build things faster
(21:50):
for much cheaper. I suggest a lot of founders lean
into that great and do milestone based fundraising that so
you can get to key milestones, so you can have
virgin these negotiations because you have the other end. What
happened in twenty twenty one, especially a lot of black founders.
They all that money poured into the space, and a
lot of them, and some of them are friends, I
won't name names. You know, some of them just got
(22:12):
huge valuations that they now struggling to get to the
revenue point to even sell board. So a lot of them,
like a now are stressed out because they're like I
may have a profitable, good business, but I may have
to wait another five to ten years just to get
enough revenue to be able to even justify my.
Speaker 2 (22:32):
Current valuation, yet alone a larger valuation.
Speaker 3 (22:35):
So those companies become zombie companies right where they are
just exists, but they really can't exit, and where if
they do exit, the founders essentially make nothing. So now
the founders aren't even working to generate wealth for themselves.
They're working to return somebody's fund, right, So that's the
So I through my process and what I've done, I
(22:56):
have I learned, and I went through I talked to bankers,
and I even talked to people at other vcs or
they were like, they were like you are you're so
I mean, they like most people don't build a company
for ten years and get to like, you know, thirty
forty million revenue like you did with like not raising capital,
but this since you did that, you don't know just
how economically like in better off you are than.
Speaker 2 (23:17):
Some other founders.
Speaker 3 (23:18):
So I think a lot of founders need to understand
the falticitim bargain you are sometimes signing up for when
you raise capital, especially once you get past that a
round and the terms that.
Speaker 2 (23:28):
You are greeed to.
Speaker 3 (23:30):
And also people think that, oh, you lose control of
your company when you dilute yourself to a point. No no,
no, no no, you lose your company. And the minute you
get aboard, the minute you have a board and there
are more people that are not you the outvote you,
you've lost control of your company. And people don't get that.
Like that's something people don't get there that your boy
can literally not only fire you, your boor can change
(23:51):
the structured organization. Your boy can force you to give
equity to someone you don't want to get to it
like your bor can force you to high Like people
don't get that.
Speaker 2 (23:58):
So they're founders who really just hate.
Speaker 3 (24:01):
Their board where like they fell out with this investor
this and whatever, and you know now they pigeonholed their
company and that board can also say, you know what,
we have a deal on the table.
Speaker 2 (24:10):
We agree, we now want you to sell the company.
Speaker 3 (24:13):
And depending on the terms of the deal, if it
doesn't require unanimous shareholder approval, you have to sell the.
Speaker 2 (24:19):
Company even if you make nothing from the deal. Well,
it's unfortunate.
Speaker 1 (24:24):
You know, there's a conversation that's been happening for years
and it's grown steam, and that is about the value
of a college education, college degree. And I wonder your
thoughts on you know, there's at least in Ohio where
I'm at, like there's this emphasis on you know, technical fields,
(24:45):
whether you're going to be, you know, an IT professional
and just get a certificate, whether you're going to be
in the trades, whether you're going to be in those
sorts of things. And I wonder, how how do you
think about that in the landscape of the future of education.
Speaker 3 (25:01):
Yeah, I mean I feel like running Skolarly for ten years,
helping people pay for college. You almost felt like it's
like the you know, the parable of civisis push in
the rock up the mountain, like you continue to just
keep it rolls right back.
Speaker 2 (25:13):
Now.
Speaker 3 (25:13):
It was literally a problem I felt, a problem that
could never actually be solved. You could just only solve
it a little for as many people as you can.
I think too, I think college is valuable. College just
cost you that much. I mean, and it's just that's
just what it is.
Speaker 2 (25:29):
I don't think that.
Speaker 3 (25:29):
I don't think college the value of college with if
we look at the amount of friends, close relationships, co founders,
investor in the things that we get from that experience.
When you look at me, a first and rich college student,
people who come from like the hood, college is not
just going to get an education, it's their first time
being out of an environment where they are able to
(25:50):
be around other likelines and people, safe environments, like you know,
sometimes their families are sending them to college to protect
them literally, like you know, our friends from New York'sige
College where I'm from, where college were the first time
where they were able to like feel safe, be able
to get an education, be around like minded people, and
and have life changing opportunities and spaces you know, you know,
(26:12):
there were there were just different.
Speaker 2 (26:13):
So I think that so I and I and I think.
Speaker 3 (26:16):
That colleges have massive endowments, and I think that AI
is absolutely going to disrupt colleges I think I see
I foresee AI colleges happening where it's going to be.
Speaker 2 (26:26):
Like where you're going to be able to get like
you know that I see.
Speaker 3 (26:28):
And so I think what colleges are going to do
as shrink or or or liverge their endowments to create
programs like smaller programs you know that you can do
because colleges, if you look at the economics, colleges like
are some of the most profitable businesses you can never
name because you because their revenue every years federal student loans, right,
so they know they can charge you whatever they want
(26:51):
and they know you're going to you're going to get
it from a source, right. And this new administration that
you can see what happened this week, they just said, no,
you won't be doing that.
Speaker 2 (27:00):
So I think that I think that there's going to.
Speaker 3 (27:02):
Be forced adoption of things that make it more for
it because even they even said they want to actually
change where pill grants can be used for workforce bloot
camps and vocational schools now, so they're saying yeah. So
I think once that happens, I think college enrollment is
going to stop outside of the Ivy.
Speaker 2 (27:20):
League schools who pay for you to go anyway.
Speaker 3 (27:23):
And I think that there's going to be a real,
a real exodus, and I think there's going to be
a college on have to correct themselves because because some
college have been predatory where they'll say, hey, oh you
can our accepted three will be eighty five percent. They
know they're accepting students who are remedial, who can't do
who's going to drop out, but they don't care because
they get that first year student loan revenue, right, so
(27:45):
they let you in. So they're The argument to be
had of putting some sort of barrier between a student
and college is to really make sure college are accepting
students who can actually read in right, not just accepting
them because they want them to take out a student
loan and they want to get that twenty five thousand
dollars in revenue from that student student a year because
they're enrollment over the past few years have been dropping.
Speaker 1 (28:05):
Yeah, what is in Chris's E d C Your every
day Carrie? What are those things that you've always got
to have like close by And it can't be your phone,
It's got to be like, what are the things that
whether you're in the car on the train or walking.
You got to have these things to function as an
entrepreneur as as as a person.
Speaker 3 (28:26):
Uh all the time. But been in a car, I
say as an entrepreneur, I don't. I mean like again,
outside of your phone, if you say, your laptop or anything.
But I think that for me, yeah, I mean you
took all the technical stuff out. I mean that's like
(28:47):
like when you're in a college, think about anything you're doing.
I think, I think something you know that I always
kind of have access to. It may not be every
with me, but I think every auctionneur at least. I
mean when you are working every day and the business
and now doing that again and from like day one
starting off, you you need something that puts you on
(29:08):
a world that's outside of work, like and where work
is not involved.
Speaker 2 (29:12):
And for me, I actually love anime. So anime. A
lot of people don't know that.
Speaker 3 (29:16):
So I literally love anime and uh, and that actually
is one of the few things where I immerse myself
in something that's fantasy, something that is not related to work.
And it's also something that is actually if you know,
anime is actually intellectual day.
Speaker 2 (29:30):
It's actually for adults.
Speaker 3 (29:31):
It's not like it's not Powerpuff Girls, it's actually like
really deep stuff and that that allows me to kind of.
Speaker 2 (29:36):
Unplug a bit and be able to do that.
Speaker 3 (29:39):
Yeah, and just really just outside of like technology and
uh you know a cocktail here and there that that helps.
I think that, you know, being able to have those
things around me even and even as on screen tabs
around me, just I think access to that has been
something that is that that has been just you know,
giving me a place to place my brain when I
(30:01):
when I'm done or not do not want to think
about work.
Speaker 1 (30:05):
Yeah. Finally, you know, how do you decide which problems
are worth solving? As an entrepreneur and as a founder.
Speaker 3 (30:16):
I think that problems I think you we're all, we
all are better suited to solve problem that we want.
Have domain expertise too, where you have a background of
solving that problem at another company or your life or
some other entpreneurial venture or something that's close to home, right,
And I think that people are a better positioned and
(30:37):
frankly going to be more passionate about solving problems that
they know. Like for example, like when I when I
talk to investor about path and they see what I
did with SCOTL. They're like no brainer, right, Like, Okay,
you are the right person because you you did it
one you built the company, but you also are passionate
about this and also there's also I have connections now
(30:58):
and all that, so we can accelerate the So but
even just from a fiduche perspective, you will have you
will grow a bigger and better business just simply being
have it solving a problem that you know very well
because you're not because there's less iterations like scholarly, I
didn't have to iterate the problem.
Speaker 2 (31:14):
I'm like, I want a million dollars scholarships.
Speaker 3 (31:15):
I knew, I knew what it took to find scholarships, right,
I knew exactly on the from ground your level. Versus
if I said I'm going to start a biotech company
to turn frog into rodents, right like right like that
that you know, that sort of thing wouldn't be there.
So I do think solving problems that are close to home,
or solving problems what you spent, or solving problems that
(31:37):
are extension of something you did professionally really working. You see,
even in the venture market, those are the people that
get funded, right Like like investors want to see, okay
that you are solving this problem because you have to
be and frankly, just from a risk a risk profile perspective,
who's less risky of the person that needs to spend
three four years learning this industry or learning what this
(31:59):
understand is problem album or a group of people or
spend or or who can or who.
Speaker 2 (32:03):
Knows that from the start.
Speaker 3 (32:04):
I'll take, for example, if you know the company frank
that was actually a scholar competitor, the girl got arrested
for fraud and she's getting convicted all that, and one
of the biggest flaws of her product is that she
was saying they were really scholar, but she was saying
that they could do the faster for people in the
(32:25):
faster for people in like minutes. Come to find out
they were doing that by omitting key questions that students needed,
especially low income students to get all day. So of course,
when you look at a rich white girl who's from
from like West, from all way, a wealthy.
Speaker 2 (32:44):
New York try to solve a problem for.
Speaker 3 (32:47):
Low income students who she had net related to, she
would create a problem. Oh this is great, that doesn't
that literally hurts this far more than you and then
it ends up being fraud and all that. So I
think that that's kind of you know, those are a
gay even though she a problems general. But I think
even from a product perspective, it informs what you deal
and how you build it.
Speaker 1 (33:06):
Black Tech Green Money is a production of Blavity Afro
Tech on the Black Effect podcast Networking Night Hied Media.
It's produced by Morgan Debonne and me Well Lucas, with
the digital production support by Kate McDonald s, Ergan and
Jada McGee. Special thank you to Michael Davis and Love Beach.
Learn more about my guessing other Tech. This shop is
an innovators at afrotech dot com. The video version this
(33:26):
episode will drop to Black Tech Green Money on YouTube,
So tap in, enjoy your Black Tech Green Money, share
us to somebody, go get your money.
Speaker 2 (33:35):
Piece in Love
I'm with Lucas and this is black tech, Green money.
Christopher Gray is the CEO and founder of Path in
AI power platform transforming the way students and professionals prepare
for critical exams. Before Path, Christopher co founded Scolli and
That to help students find scholarships for college and pay
off student debt. Scolly gained national attention on ABC Shark Tank,
(00:25):
securing a deal with Damie John and Lord Grinder and
sparking the biggest debate and shows history. With over five
million users, Skolly helps students secure over one hundred million
in scholarships and was ultimately acquired by Sally May. So
you are already a successful founder. You've already built, you know,
one amazing company in Scollie. And I wonder, you know,
(00:49):
before we talk about what you're doing now, I wonder.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
Like, what did you learn?
Speaker 1 (00:52):
Like what is the hardest lesson you learned while scaling
that company?
Speaker 3 (00:57):
I think that you know, the thing I learned about
scaling that organization is really really being mindful of having
the right business model from the start. I think that
you know and thinking about that. I launched the company
on charting. So I was in college and three months
where I graduated, So I really honestly didn't know what
(01:17):
I was doing. I half my co founder and if
you developers in a room, we were just getting all
that traffic, so really thinking, you know, and that was
like really the biggest one of the biggest high traffic
moments from the start, you know, since we've had so
I think, you know, reallyant and our at was nine
and nine since so and we yeah, exactly, so I
think you kind of give off going to see who
(01:38):
I want to go for right.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
I was like, I'm going to be get super apported
for everyone and that would be good.
Speaker 3 (01:42):
And the time when we literally got probably one hundred
plus style and light down within two months, you know,
you know, that would have been a lot more if
you know, you know, if you know, had the right
business model. So I think they can know a lot
of right businessmaller from the start is important, and I
think a lot of founders actually don't do that at all.
You have these companies that oh, I'm make my up
free and and figure it out in five years and
then they run out of money and then you know
(02:03):
all that. So I do think having the right thinking
about the right business and all of them to start
with something that I did.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
I was really young.
Speaker 3 (02:09):
I was twenty two when I was doing it, so
now that it's not the here there, but that was
something that I.
Speaker 2 (02:14):
Think was something that I would.
Speaker 3 (02:16):
I learned that that now I'm doing at day one
with this new company.
Speaker 1 (02:21):
Yeah, and I think about something that you know, which
I'm you're obviously aware of, and that you know, business
is designed to sell, like whether you I PO, whether
you sell it to somebody else it's acquired, or you're
you become an acquirer of other businesses. That's what it's
designed for. And I'm curious in how you think about
your thinking going into Skye Like is this someonody, Oh,
(02:42):
I wanted to do this forever and then you just realize, okay,
you have to sell this thing at some point. And
how you think now about you said, you know, starting
things from the beginning, How do you think about going
into a new company that that.
Speaker 2 (02:55):
Kind of mindset.
Speaker 3 (02:56):
Yeah, So I think that when I started Skylle, it
was literally like a few years right after like Instagram
sold for a billion dollars and it was just it
was still the series of a lot of these acquisitions
were still new it was actually right before there was
a lot of wave of excess. It was more like
that big funding period where everyone was getting raising a
lot of money as more.
Speaker 2 (03:16):
So before with a lot of exits.
Speaker 3 (03:17):
Right, So when I was thinking about Scholar, I was
just thinking, Okay, I'm gonna You're gonna just build this,
and you want to get to everyone had this, get
to a million users and all that stuff. So I
would say thinking about that in mind. Actually when I
build the company, to be completely honest, I wasn't thinking
about Okay, how can I build this, you know, to
sell the company.
Speaker 2 (03:33):
I was really more self and.
Speaker 3 (03:34):
How I was going to build a business, how I
was going to make it grow again, you know, and
also just being at that point in my career, which
again that being literally my first job. I think that
was something I was thinking through. However, in hindsight, when
I went through the exit process when we got acquired
by Sally May, you went through the diligence process and
you went through you know, it just also just and
(03:55):
even Scholar is actually possible. I only raised four hundred K,
so I was I had a majority of equitumic company
and I have deal boards. That was all well for me,
and it was ultimately my decision to sell. But I
think when you go through that exit process, you really go.
But one, you have to give them all these documents
from the time of the things of your business, all
your metrics, and I think that you go, you look
(04:16):
back and press reset and you will oh, now I
see how you know? These venture backed companies build a
company from the exit right. And that goes back to
my question, your question about about the business model.
Speaker 2 (04:26):
You think about every little piece of the right and
the product.
Speaker 3 (04:29):
Who can be like right now, like with this new
company path, already I already have thought about who could
the potential requires be What is the right business model?
Because when you think about getting acquired, people just think, oh,
I'm going to build something and someone's just gonna Facebook
is gonna like buy your business, not necessarily like why
would Facebook want your business?
Speaker 2 (04:45):
Right?
Speaker 3 (04:46):
So you really have to start thinking about that and
even all way down toward grain your level. Hey, where
financially you want to be when you sell? Right, is
it twenty million revenue? It's a thirty million in revenue, right,
what could the multipleon on that be?
Speaker 2 (04:57):
Right? So understanding that because the thing is even if
you are not doing.
Speaker 3 (05:01):
That, the vcs who are investing you are gonna do that, right,
They're not gonna they're investing you with the exit. They
have analysts who are doing that. These exercises says how
big can this business be? And all that. So I
grew the profitable route and grew styled to be that.
But I have seen now starting this venture route that
even if you're not doing that, those vcs are doing it.
So you really it's good for you to assessicize an
(05:22):
opportunity because to your point, if you are a lot
of there's a lot of conversation the Black commedy. When
I sold a salad made people are like you sold
out and all the stuff that people don't understand if
you take someone US's money. We took a little bit
of money, but the sharks and other people, when you
take someone else's money, they have to get it back,
and nine times out of ten they.
Speaker 2 (05:40):
Have to get that back through an exit. And that's
something that.
Speaker 3 (05:43):
Isn't well known in the black in the mainstream Black community,
that capital cannot be taken without it being returned and
the exod is the way to do that. So thinking
about what an extra strategy could look like is really
important to think about in the beginning of their journey.
It's not being transactional, it's just understanding the reality of
growing up business and and the and and and the
liquidity events that.
Speaker 2 (06:04):
Have to come with them.
Speaker 1 (06:06):
What pulls you to the education space, you know, it
seems like that's like your Yeah, that's your thing.
Speaker 3 (06:14):
I think that you know, for me, I I like
to solve problems that you know that are really relevant.
So I'm originally for Birmingham, Alabama. I actually only a
a small fraction of the students who in Alabama who
graduate high school are reading.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
At a third grade level. That's very well known.
Speaker 3 (06:30):
Testing isn't grade and you know that's in federal I
mean it's just been a whole wasn't but it's yeah.
So like I went to a Magne High school, so
I was fortunate where the students, but the think that high
school went to college. But the master of the system,
I think probably around ten percent of people go to
college five even way way less than I even graduate.
And they're all are going to a lot of which
are going to college at third graae level. So I
(06:51):
saw the disparity of education and I saw that it
wasn't you know, and I and I saw two things
out of those environments. I saw access to paying for
college and access to resources to prepare for exams and
other things to get you into to get you into college,
and also just being able to have, you know, things
outside of maybe your school environment to be able to
do so.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
For me, I look at you know, I was likely
to do test well.
Speaker 3 (07:14):
I was, I was likely to do do well in school,
but I saw the I saw other people just just didn't.
So for me, those those were pain points that were
really important to me. And I see, I saw the
impact of education happening in my life. I'm a first
generation college student, you know, obviously, and as you can
see with starting a company, selling a company, having wealth
and all that stuff like that is my family well
(07:34):
like like that that's completely a foreign concept to them.
So I still and all that was due because I
got scholarship to go to college.
Speaker 2 (07:41):
So I saw how transformer that can be.
Speaker 3 (07:43):
And I and also as a businessman, I have learned
that anything anything that can impact someone's life, anything that
can provide value to a to a personal organization, you
can wrap a business model around it. So it doesn't
have to be mutually exclusive, so I can help a
lot of people and then and still be able to
do it in a way that scales. Because I was
when I started Scholar, I was thinking about the nonprofit stuff,
(08:05):
and I'm like, I don't want to be someone literally
every day hosting found raisers and asking people begging people
for money.
Speaker 2 (08:10):
I want people to be able to give me.
Speaker 3 (08:12):
I want to be able to raise money through revenue
and being able to turn someone's investment. So education has
just been so pivotal to my life. So it's something
that's really really important for me to do. Even with
Scholar and now what I'm dealing with.
Speaker 1 (08:23):
Path, yeah and now and I want to get into
that and I think about that in talking about path,
what is what is that eureka moment we said, this
is the idea. And here's why I asked this question
is because I think sometimes we just have in doing scholar,
you might have said, oh, there's this other vertical that
one day I'm going to touch that thing this because
(08:44):
there's a problem there, Or you can just be purely opportunistic,
like I see a gap. Ain't nobody doing this or
any nobody doing it how I can do it, or
something you're really really passionate about, like what is that
thing for a path for you? And then we'll talk
about what it is.
Speaker 3 (08:57):
Yeah, so I think that is it was. It's really
three things, right, I think one one exactly. So one
of the biggest things I actually wanted to try to
get into into SKALI if we grew and expanded was
test prep. So one of the biggest things that I
had challenges with was being able to pay for the expensive.
Speaker 2 (09:15):
Example, so when I was when I was going to college.
Speaker 3 (09:18):
In twenty ten, it was Princeton Review Kaplan all their
courses like twelve hundred dollars. Like I just told you,
I was first generation student like my mom, we could
validate our bills for like fifty dollars, So that just
wasn't even their question, right.
Speaker 2 (09:30):
So you would see all the you know, the white kids.
Speaker 3 (09:33):
From the more upper middle class schools or Wether school
doing really well on these tests. But then you would
find out when you go through these different programs, their
parents are paying thousands of dollars to prep them for
these exams, right then, just they just prepare for that, right,
And I think that you know, AI and I think
so was it was kind of a perfect you know,
I can't a perfect trinity of things. Were Okay, here's
(09:54):
this thing, but you know you have to create all
this content.
Speaker 2 (09:57):
Oh look at your AI and you see that.
Speaker 3 (10:00):
Now this is this moment of opportunistic I can do
this Princeton Review needs to do because they need to
pay all these instructors. They need to go out through
this content manually. A I can really do that. But
I didn't want to. Just think about college admission, all
those exams and things that you know, those students who
are reading at the third grade level in Alabama, we
have an AI model that can generate those exams as well.
And actually if people are not doing well on them,
(10:21):
we can actually help them generate too, you know, tutoring
and step by steff solutions to help them learn. So
I thought about, you know, when I was growing up, Okay,
what are these barriers?
Speaker 2 (10:31):
Right?
Speaker 3 (10:31):
One, it was, you know, being able to get into
college or do well, to get the rights, all the
all the scholarship you want because of this bearer.
Speaker 2 (10:38):
That's things.
Speaker 3 (10:38):
And as you know, with the current administration, there was
just a letter they just sent out a month or
two ago called deer to call deer colleague, which is
to all universities telling them that they have that them
them not requiring standardized tests of ATT and ATT would
be considered would be considered discrimination, meaning that they took
(10:59):
their saying that they took those tests away in order
for DEI purposes, So they have to bring them back.
So now actually we're gonna we're now our business is
gonna be great for our business. So yeah, So then
so it was definitely opportunities. It's like, hey, generally I
can do this thing really well and I can create
a good business all around it because now I can
use this make it more affordable and you know, and
(11:20):
it's just really being an issue that I was really
passionate about because that was the big thing because I
don't believe, you know, I think it's really hard to
instill ambition and students and family and really go and
change a lot. But I do believe that there are
a lot of students, especially students of color, who are motivated,
who are belittled and called dumb simply because they can't
afford tutors.
Speaker 2 (11:40):
They can't afford these things.
Speaker 3 (11:42):
And I think AI has presented a really, really dope
opportunity to put that in front of them, make it
affordable and be able to help them level the playing field.
And I think the era in this political environment that
we're in right now where everything goes back to the states,
that means that states can determine any you know, all
of them. They can say, you know what, your kid
can't graduate if they don't make a thirty on MS.
(12:03):
But it was not realistic a thirty on AC. What
did we go to that kind of environment, kind of discriminatory,
inequitable environment. You know, I think Path is positioned to
do to jump in there and be a solution for that.
Speaker 1 (12:16):
Yeah, you just said something that I found really interesting,
and it makes me think about Rama Manuel. I remember saying,
I'm sure he wasn't the first person to say it,
and this was during Obama's term. He said, you know,
never let a good crisis go to waste, And that
is always stuck with me because even I've had there
was opportunities that I got that I could not have
gotten other than COVID happened. And I recognized that COVID
(12:40):
was as devastating as it was, but there it created
a landscape for opportunity in some ways.
Speaker 2 (12:45):
For me.
Speaker 1 (12:45):
I can tell you, you know, there was some real
estate I bought that it wouldn't have been on the
market at the price it was had COVID I happened,
and other things. And you just mentioned like you know,
this new thing legislation will create opportunities for your business.
And I'm curious in how you think we as founders
should be thinking or creators innovators should think about opportunity
(13:07):
when we could just walk around with hair on fire,
but instead look for opportunities.
Speaker 3 (13:13):
Yeah, I think that when whether the stock market is down,
whether there's a COVID COVID ninety pac, whether we have
a new lolical administration, there's always money been made in chaos,
and most of the people who are creating the chaos
are doing it with they intend to make money in someone.
Speaker 2 (13:30):
Right, That's just life, right.
Speaker 3 (13:31):
I think when you're younger, and I think when you're
in your vot, I don't. But now, as a as
a person that has tend a decade, over a decade
and text based met a lot of wealthy people and
many of my peers and friends and things like that,
I know how the game works, right, Like it's like
they create chaos of course, you know, I mean look
at bitcoin, right, Oh my god, bitcoin is horrible. It's
(13:52):
the death, it's the devil, and blah blah blah. Nah,
it goes down superlow, everyone low key buys it all suddenly.
Now without now we have federal Now we have federal
you know, legislation around it, and now it's going to
go up. Right, stock market dropping and the president of
when in any any former time with the President of
the United States, as they'll say, oh, I'm not gonna
(14:13):
really out of a recession. Stock markets drop, and then
I guess what. Then all my friends in hedge funds
and then banking are talking about what they're buying up like.
Speaker 2 (14:21):
This stuff is like a game. Right.
Speaker 3 (14:22):
So for us, you know, I think that look at
that chaos, find their opportunity buying industries that are being affected.
And like you did, you know, real estate, Like look
at d C if I would say somebody in dc
W with all these layoffs happen, and I'd be looking
at buying real estate up in the d MD because
it's about to be a ghost town there, right, So
so I think of that, and then I think for us,
you know, education, right, he really wants to really they
(14:44):
really want to jump and harp on education. But in
a way we're using things that are historically embarrassed to
people of color, which is standardized testing. Right if you
put and say okay, kids can't get into a college
or get scholarships for their art testing, less of us
are going to go. If you say, oh, your kids
can't graduate grade is they don't pass this state exam
in Florida or where I'm from, Alabama, you would have
(15:04):
black kids or literally just stuck and the ultimately giving
up and doing that.
Speaker 2 (15:08):
Right, So I do think in that chaos there's.
Speaker 3 (15:10):
An opportunity, but there's always opportunity, and there's always orchestrated
the chaos, and those people who are orchestrating their chaos
are creating their chaos to make money for themselves.
Speaker 1 (15:19):
It's so interesting. So let's talk about what path is
for people you know, assigned from you know, touching on
you know what it does? How much you either give
the elevator pitch for a path.
Speaker 2 (15:29):
If you would.
Speaker 3 (15:31):
Yeah, So, so path is we're in Jerrybody platform simply
around exam prep. So we created an AI model very
specifically around helping students prepare for exams and also predict
whether they're going to make on the exam.
Speaker 2 (15:44):
Before they take it.
Speaker 3 (15:45):
So we cover exams from KT twelve exams, so like
the exams that every student in the state has to take,
like for them, the New York Regents or New York
State Exam, the Texas Star Exam, TSA Exam, et cetera.
We also we also cover college admissions exams like ACT
SAT and p SAT, and then we cover grad school
(16:06):
exams like GMATT lsad GRE and even professional certifications like
come to your INCLUX.
Speaker 2 (16:11):
And what we do is provide you. We use general
AI to prisee.
Speaker 3 (16:14):
You unlimited practice exams, unlimited practice, and then we then
take that data and then be able to predict whether
you're going to pass the tests or not.
Speaker 2 (16:21):
So most of these so and we're all in because we're.
Speaker 3 (16:24):
Able to use general of AI, we're able to be
able to provide that for like just like sixty dollars
right versus you paying and everything runner one subscription and
not instead of being able to pay twelve going to
caplan and paying twenty five hundred dollars for GMAT prep,
So we're able to give you better.
Speaker 2 (16:41):
We get it.
Speaker 3 (16:41):
We're able to give you premium quality content, unlimited practice,
predict whether you're going to make what you're gonna make
on the test where you take it, which means that
you don't have to score and spend money until your shit.
You're gonna make the score you're going to make, and
we're able to and we're able to do it for
a super affordable rate, which makes it accessible. So going
back to my earlier point when this pandemonium happens where
everyone's freaking out because now I need to make a
(17:02):
certain score or I need to pass or a certain
score to make that s you to graduate or do this.
Now we can swoop in and be able to say, okay,
now we have that we can give you that make
it more affordable, predict what you're going to make for
you taking that, not.
Speaker 2 (17:13):
Just saying oh, here's a bunch of practice.
Speaker 3 (17:15):
We can actually predict it you're going to make and
Benity do that so and doing that through a super
boat user interface.
Speaker 2 (17:19):
So that's what kind of what we're doing.
Speaker 3 (17:20):
Focusing on exam across the ward from literally third grade
all the way up until you go to grad school.
And mean even if you need professional certifications like inclex
healthcare and it exams like a your comet, et cetera.
Speaker 1 (17:35):
You know, you've got your finger on the pulse of
what's happening with AI and education. And I wonder there
are a lot of parents, a lot of folks who
still believe there's no place for AI in education. It's
it's you know, a crutch or you know, we'll do
it for you. Is that shifting number one into how should.
Speaker 2 (17:56):
We think about it?
Speaker 3 (17:59):
I think that I think that what's happening is a
lot of a lot of students who are in gen
X are using JEND, are using or using AI in
any way right, and a lot of parents are now
seeing that their students are using these tools.
Speaker 2 (18:15):
I don't know, you guys.
Speaker 3 (18:16):
There was actually a parent suing actually now suing the
school because her daughter actually graduated and was illiterate, but
she was passing all her doing, passing all her tests
exam because she's use the text of speech and AI
to do to do all her work for so and
her and her friends. So now she graduated completely literate,
(18:37):
and she couldn't but she graduates, she couldn't do well
in college. So you saw, so you see that even
happening when you know that, right, So, I think you're
going to see people. It's all happening so fast that
I think it's creating a cultural amount of cognitive dissonance
in our community. But I think it's going to be
ubiqulous because it's going to be these students who are
(18:58):
growing up with this technology now is going to be
just commonplace for them, and we're going to have to
adapt to that.
Speaker 2 (19:03):
But I do think it's moving so so fast.
Speaker 3 (19:06):
There was a there was an AI image of two actors,
like two male actors pertaining like they were in a couple,
and I'm like, I'm thinking of myself.
Speaker 2 (19:15):
That's mortifying, right, Like, So that stuff prevents fear.
Speaker 3 (19:18):
But I do think for education, I do think it
provides a way where we can equalize things because if
everyone had access to the same quality tutors and education
at an affordable rate, I think that does within an
opportunity for for us to really be able to take
advantage of that and and be able to kind of
close some of the gaps rather than focusing on all
(19:38):
the terminator or AI and matrix kind of scenarios.
Speaker 1 (19:44):
You know, there's an unfortunate trend that there's a lot
of founders who do exit and don't even make any
money in the exit. Maybe they were just too diluted,
or they didn't know how to structure deals or et cetera.
How did what wealth building lessons did you you learn
in your journey.
Speaker 2 (20:01):
As a founder? Yeah, so that was really unique.
Speaker 3 (20:05):
So one of my first investors was, you know, like
first Round Capital with Josh coffin First On Capital and
and the and some others, And I was kind.
Speaker 2 (20:15):
Of I was a part of Dorman from one of
their first their first actually team in.
Speaker 3 (20:19):
Philly and I and we and we knew a lot
of the investors in company their first round investment. I've
had the opportunity over the years to see friends sell
their companies and you're hundre percent right, sometimes like these exits.
Speaker 2 (20:34):
What they are are not what they seem.
Speaker 3 (20:37):
And a lot of times people don't talk about liquidation
preferences and dilution and all the terms that founders accept
like I have. Like there are people that will sell
their companies that people don't know. Some in some instances
they were forced to sell by their board to return
their front and the founders made nothing like there was
actually a recent examples in tech Crunch this real estate
(20:59):
a company sold for a billion dollars. Founders and early
employees made nothing, right, so people don't talk about that.
I think it's important. I think it's I think it's
so for me. I group scholarly profitly. But through that
process of selling the company, I inadvertently learned, oh my god,
Like I know, I seen X by a person sell
(21:22):
their company for thisbi or whatever. I made infinitely more
take home money in my pocket than they made.
Speaker 2 (21:28):
Like you you got.
Speaker 3 (21:29):
I'm talking about people selling their comfort of two hundred
and fifty million and walking away with two million dollars
right like like just like after ten years of work,
right where so like that is just something that is
really really really important. And I think that I think
it's important for founders, and I think AI has presented
an opportunity where you are able to build things faster
(21:50):
for much cheaper. I suggest a lot of founders lean
into that great and do milestone based fundraising that so
you can get to key milestones, so you can have
virgin these negotiations because you have the other end. What
happened in twenty twenty one, especially a lot of black founders.
They all that money poured into the space, and a
lot of them, and some of them are friends, I
won't name names. You know, some of them just got
(22:12):
huge valuations that they now struggling to get to the
revenue point to even sell board. So a lot of them,
like a now are stressed out because they're like I
may have a profitable, good business, but I may have
to wait another five to ten years just to get
enough revenue to be able to even justify my.
Speaker 2 (22:32):
Current valuation, yet alone a larger valuation.
Speaker 3 (22:35):
So those companies become zombie companies right where they are
just exists, but they really can't exit, and where if
they do exit, the founders essentially make nothing. So now
the founders aren't even working to generate wealth for themselves.
They're working to return somebody's fund, right, So that's the
So I through my process and what I've done, I
(22:56):
have I learned, and I went through I talked to bankers,
and I even talked to people at other vcs or
they were like, they were like you are you're so
I mean, they like most people don't build a company
for ten years and get to like, you know, thirty
forty million revenue like you did with like not raising capital,
but this since you did that, you don't know just
how economically like in better off you are than.
Speaker 2 (23:17):
Some other founders.
Speaker 3 (23:18):
So I think a lot of founders need to understand
the falticitim bargain you are sometimes signing up for when
you raise capital, especially once you get past that a
round and the terms that.
Speaker 2 (23:28):
You are greeed to.
Speaker 3 (23:30):
And also people think that, oh, you lose control of
your company when you dilute yourself to a point. No no,
no, no no, you lose your company. And the minute you
get aboard, the minute you have a board and there
are more people that are not you the outvote you,
you've lost control of your company. And people don't get that.
Like that's something people don't get there that your boy
can literally not only fire you, your boor can change
(23:51):
the structured organization. Your boy can force you to give
equity to someone you don't want to get to it
like your bor can force you to high Like people
don't get that.
Speaker 2 (23:58):
So they're founders who really just hate.
Speaker 3 (24:01):
Their board where like they fell out with this investor
this and whatever, and you know now they pigeonholed their
company and that board can also say, you know what,
we have a deal on the table.
Speaker 2 (24:10):
We agree, we now want you to sell the company.
Speaker 3 (24:13):
And depending on the terms of the deal, if it
doesn't require unanimous shareholder approval, you have to sell the.
Speaker 2 (24:19):
Company even if you make nothing from the deal. Well,
it's unfortunate.
Speaker 1 (24:24):
You know, there's a conversation that's been happening for years
and it's grown steam, and that is about the value
of a college education, college degree. And I wonder your
thoughts on you know, there's at least in Ohio where
I'm at, like there's this emphasis on you know, technical fields,
(24:45):
whether you're going to be, you know, an IT professional
and just get a certificate, whether you're going to be
in the trades, whether you're going to be in those
sorts of things. And I wonder, how how do you
think about that in the landscape of the future of education.
Speaker 3 (25:01):
Yeah, I mean I feel like running Skolarly for ten years,
helping people pay for college. You almost felt like it's
like the you know, the parable of civisis push in
the rock up the mountain, like you continue to just
keep it rolls right back.
Speaker 2 (25:13):
Now.
Speaker 3 (25:13):
It was literally a problem I felt, a problem that
could never actually be solved. You could just only solve
it a little for as many people as you can.
I think too, I think college is valuable. College just
cost you that much. I mean, and it's just that's
just what it is.
Speaker 2 (25:29):
I don't think that.
Speaker 3 (25:29):
I don't think college the value of college with if
we look at the amount of friends, close relationships, co founders,
investor in the things that we get from that experience.
When you look at me, a first and rich college student,
people who come from like the hood, college is not
just going to get an education, it's their first time
being out of an environment where they are able to
(25:50):
be around other likelines and people, safe environments, like you know,
sometimes their families are sending them to college to protect
them literally, like you know, our friends from New York'sige
College where I'm from, where college were the first time
where they were able to like feel safe, be able
to get an education, be around like minded people, and
and have life changing opportunities and spaces you know, you know,
(26:12):
there were there were just different.
Speaker 2 (26:13):
So I think that so I and I and I think.
Speaker 3 (26:16):
That colleges have massive endowments, and I think that AI
is absolutely going to disrupt colleges I think I see
I foresee AI colleges happening where it's going to be.
Speaker 2 (26:26):
Like where you're going to be able to get like
you know that I see.
Speaker 3 (26:28):
And so I think what colleges are going to do
as shrink or or or liverge their endowments to create
programs like smaller programs you know that you can do
because colleges, if you look at the economics, colleges like
are some of the most profitable businesses you can never
name because you because their revenue every years federal student loans, right,
so they know they can charge you whatever they want
(26:51):
and they know you're going to you're going to get
it from a source, right. And this new administration that
you can see what happened this week, they just said, no,
you won't be doing that.
Speaker 2 (27:00):
So I think that I think that there's going to.
Speaker 3 (27:02):
Be forced adoption of things that make it more for
it because even they even said they want to actually
change where pill grants can be used for workforce bloot
camps and vocational schools now, so they're saying yeah. So
I think once that happens, I think college enrollment is
going to stop outside of the Ivy.
Speaker 2 (27:20):
League schools who pay for you to go anyway.
Speaker 3 (27:23):
And I think that there's going to be a real,
a real exodus, and I think there's going to be
a college on have to correct themselves because because some
college have been predatory where they'll say, hey, oh you
can our accepted three will be eighty five percent. They
know they're accepting students who are remedial, who can't do
who's going to drop out, but they don't care because
they get that first year student loan revenue, right, so
(27:45):
they let you in. So they're The argument to be
had of putting some sort of barrier between a student
and college is to really make sure college are accepting
students who can actually read in right, not just accepting
them because they want them to take out a student
loan and they want to get that twenty five thousand
dollars in revenue from that student student a year because
they're enrollment over the past few years have been dropping.
Speaker 1 (28:05):
Yeah, what is in Chris's E d C Your every
day Carrie? What are those things that you've always got
to have like close by And it can't be your phone,
It's got to be like, what are the things that
whether you're in the car on the train or walking.
You got to have these things to function as an
entrepreneur as as as a person.
Speaker 3 (28:26):
Uh all the time. But been in a car, I
say as an entrepreneur, I don't. I mean like again,
outside of your phone, if you say, your laptop or anything.
But I think that for me, yeah, I mean you
took all the technical stuff out. I mean that's like
(28:47):
like when you're in a college, think about anything you're doing.
I think, I think something you know that I always
kind of have access to. It may not be every
with me, but I think every auctionneur at least. I
mean when you are working every day and the business
and now doing that again and from like day one
starting off, you you need something that puts you on
(29:08):
a world that's outside of work, like and where work
is not involved.
Speaker 2 (29:12):
And for me, I actually love anime. So anime. A
lot of people don't know that.
Speaker 3 (29:16):
So I literally love anime and uh, and that actually
is one of the few things where I immerse myself
in something that's fantasy, something that is not related to work.
And it's also something that is actually if you know,
anime is actually intellectual day.
Speaker 2 (29:30):
It's actually for adults.
Speaker 3 (29:31):
It's not like it's not Powerpuff Girls, it's actually like
really deep stuff and that that allows me to kind of.
Speaker 2 (29:36):
Unplug a bit and be able to do that.
Speaker 3 (29:39):
Yeah, and just really just outside of like technology and
uh you know a cocktail here and there that that helps.
I think that, you know, being able to have those
things around me even and even as on screen tabs
around me, just I think access to that has been
something that is that that has been just you know,
giving me a place to place my brain when I
(30:01):
when I'm done or not do not want to think
about work.
Speaker 1 (30:05):
Yeah. Finally, you know, how do you decide which problems
are worth solving? As an entrepreneur and as a founder.
Speaker 3 (30:16):
I think that problems I think you we're all, we
all are better suited to solve problem that we want.
Have domain expertise too, where you have a background of
solving that problem at another company or your life or
some other entpreneurial venture or something that's close to home, right,
And I think that people are a better positioned and
(30:37):
frankly going to be more passionate about solving problems that
they know. Like for example, like when I when I
talk to investor about path and they see what I
did with SCOTL. They're like no brainer, right, Like, Okay,
you are the right person because you you did it
one you built the company, but you also are passionate
about this and also there's also I have connections now
(30:58):
and all that, so we can accelerate the So but
even just from a fiduche perspective, you will have you
will grow a bigger and better business just simply being
have it solving a problem that you know very well
because you're not because there's less iterations like scholarly, I
didn't have to iterate the problem.
Speaker 2 (31:14):
I'm like, I want a million dollars scholarships.
Speaker 3 (31:15):
I knew, I knew what it took to find scholarships, right,
I knew exactly on the from ground your level. Versus
if I said I'm going to start a biotech company
to turn frog into rodents, right like right like that
that you know, that sort of thing wouldn't be there.
So I do think solving problems that are close to home,
or solving problems what you spent, or solving problems that
(31:37):
are extension of something you did professionally really working. You see,
even in the venture market, those are the people that
get funded, right Like like investors want to see, okay
that you are solving this problem because you have to
be and frankly, just from a risk a risk profile perspective,
who's less risky of the person that needs to spend
three four years learning this industry or learning what this
(31:59):
understand is problem album or a group of people or
spend or or who can or who.
Speaker 2 (32:03):
Knows that from the start.
Speaker 3 (32:04):
I'll take, for example, if you know the company frank
that was actually a scholar competitor, the girl got arrested
for fraud and she's getting convicted all that, and one
of the biggest flaws of her product is that she
was saying they were really scholar, but she was saying
that they could do the faster for people in the
(32:25):
faster for people in like minutes. Come to find out
they were doing that by omitting key questions that students needed,
especially low income students to get all day. So of course,
when you look at a rich white girl who's from
from like West, from all way, a wealthy.
Speaker 2 (32:44):
New York try to solve a problem for.
Speaker 3 (32:47):
Low income students who she had net related to, she
would create a problem. Oh this is great, that doesn't
that literally hurts this far more than you and then
it ends up being fraud and all that. So I
think that that's kind of you know, those are a
gay even though she a problems general. But I think
even from a product perspective, it informs what you deal
and how you build it.
Speaker 1 (33:06):
Black Tech Green Money is a production of Blavity Afro
Tech on the Black Effect podcast Networking Night Hied Media.
It's produced by Morgan Debonne and me Well Lucas, with
the digital production support by Kate McDonald s, Ergan and
Jada McGee. Special thank you to Michael Davis and Love Beach.
Learn more about my guessing other Tech. This shop is
an innovators at afrotech dot com. The video version this
(33:26):
episode will drop to Black Tech Green Money on YouTube,
So tap in, enjoy your Black Tech Green Money, share
us to somebody, go get your money.
Speaker 2 (33:35):
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