Ep. 198 Erin Harkless Moore, Managing Director of Investments at Pivotal Ventures, a Melinda French Gates company, discusses her work leading fund and direct investment decisions to drive social progress in the U.S. Erin breaks down the economic potential of the $648 billion care economy, highlighting the massive opportunity for innovation across childcare, eldercare, mental health, and women’s health.
On this episode, Erin speaks with AfroTech’s Will Lucas about her perspective on how the convergence of AI, public policy, and inclusive entrepreneurship can accelerate progress, and why creating a more diverse tech ecosystem can unlock solutions to some of society’s most urgent problems.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
I'm Will Lucas and this is black tech, green money.
Aaron Hark is the senior director of Investments at Pivotal Ventures,
a Melinda frisch Kate's company. She's focused on social progress
in the United States, specifically in a six hundred forty
eight billion dollar sector, the care economy, which includes childcare,
elder care, mental health, and woman's health. In the mainstream
(00:25):
technology landscape, do we care enough about the elderly or
disablers when you think about care?
Speaker 2 (00:35):
Yeah, yeah, great question.
Speaker 3 (00:38):
Will.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
The short answer is no, and we're missing.
Speaker 3 (00:41):
A big opportunity because we are not prioritizing those populations.
You know, We've done some work at Pivotal Ventures with
our partners to size the care economy. It's a six
hundred and forty eight billion dollar market.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
I just like to.
Speaker 3 (00:58):
Pause and like let that sit with you and with
our listeners, because it's huge. It's bigger than the pharmaceutical industry.
But a lot of that is or things that we
don't see right And you know, we're all, I like
to say, we're all caregivers at some point in our lives.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
Whether you're a parent, you're caring for people.
Speaker 3 (01:17):
That you know are meaningful to you in your life,
family members, parents, et cetera. And a lot of that
work is unseen, unappreciated, and much of it also falls
to women. So it's a huge opportunity that I think
is massively overlooked. And you know, particularly as we you know,
(01:38):
you mentioned the elderly and the aging population, we can
no longer ignore these demographic shifts around the globe, but
particularly here in the United States, we're in the midst
it's coming. It's the silver tsunami. It's a phrase that
I've heard many times, but there are over sixty million
Americans that are age sixty five.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
Yes, baby boomers account for over thirty percent of our
nation's wealth. So it's huge spending power, huge part of
the population, and they need more innovation, right like, they're
going to be increasingly more and more elderly folks coming online,
you know, as the baby boomer. You know, I'm a millennial.
Speaker 3 (02:20):
I realized I'm beginning to middle age, right Like, it's
just going to grow and increase, and so it's really
an economic imperative for us to innovate in this market
and create more opportunities to support caregivers and caregiving.
Speaker 1 (02:35):
So I would define, you know, the care economy asy
and unless ask you to pick anything I didn't include.
But I think about childcare, I think about elder care,
I think about health technology. You know what criteria do
you use to determine which sectors you know or innovations
to invest in?
Speaker 3 (02:53):
Yeah, all of those are in the frame for us
at Pivotal Ventures. As we think about the care economy,
we really start with our investment thesis in our direct
investments and care looking at tech solutions that reduce burdens
of care, lower cost of care, and improve access to care.
And that's everything you know, from as you said, beginning
(03:13):
to life to end of life, childcare, mental health for
youth and families, general health tech, women's health, aging, longevity space,
dementia care again, that full gamut, and it's it's for
us at least. We look to prioritize solutions that are
not just for the one percent, that are going to
reach ninety nine percent of Americans and really unlock you
(03:35):
better again care solutions for all of us.
Speaker 1 (03:41):
So when you when you talk about how big the
opportunity is today, are there trends that tell you this
is going.
Speaker 4 (03:48):
To only grow?
Speaker 1 (03:50):
I say, what trends obviously is going to grow, but
what trends indicate that Yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:54):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (03:56):
I point back to that stat I shared earlier about
the demographic shifts and just the graying and the aging
of our society. People are also living longer, you know,
we're hoping to see that convergence between the life span
and the health span. So as you live longer, hopefully
you're living healthier as well. I think, so those are
That's one trend I think, a greater focus you know,
(04:18):
amongst consumers about what they are putting, you know, into
their bodies, right, and the impacts that that has, you know,
on your lifestyle choices, how you're living, how long you're living,
you know, all of those. Those are probably two big
ones I point to. You know, another one too, is
just we're living in.
Speaker 2 (04:38):
A more diverse society.
Speaker 3 (04:41):
One of our partners in our fun portfolio, BBG Ventures,
has done some research with around what they call the
polycultural America.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
You know, it's more multi racial, fifty three percent.
Speaker 3 (04:54):
Of Americans under the age of eighteen or non non white, right,
and that number is also you know, only on a
continue to grow, and that wealth gap also continues to
widen across you race, age, worker type. So these are
all themes and trends that I think have a huge
impact on how we should be building innovation and building
(05:16):
more inclusive systems and ideas at the table to meet
the needs and demands of this incredibly rich and diverse
tapestry of a society that we have here in the
United States and around the globe.
Speaker 1 (05:28):
Yeah, you know your work and you know pivotal ventures,
you know at large aims to don't do a lot
of work to advance women's power and influence. How do
you measure that? How do you define success in that regard?
Speaker 3 (05:43):
Yeah, it's it's a great question, and it's one you know,
I spend a lot of time thinking about because it
is a.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
Big, you know, lofty goal.
Speaker 3 (05:53):
You know, we're on a mission, and our principle, Melinda Frenchgates,
has committed you know, her time and capital to this,
you know, advancing women's power and influence around the globe.
You know, what we're measuring is really wanting to see
women in positions to make decisions, control resources, shape the
(06:14):
policies and perspectives and our homes and our workplaces and.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
In our communities.
Speaker 3 (06:18):
So that's across you know, a variety of dimensions and levers,
you know, specific to the work that I lead in
our investment strategy. You know, we're hoping to change the
face of the investment industry and venture capital specifically when
we started Pivotal, you know, nine years ago or so,
and even rolling back the clock before that, you know,
(06:39):
about nine percent of decision makers and check writers at
US venture capital firms or women.
Speaker 2 (06:45):
That number now sits closer to.
Speaker 3 (06:46):
Eighteen percent, So, you know, a nice growth you know
in the last you know, couple of years.
Speaker 2 (06:53):
We still have a ways to go, though, so we
have metrics.
Speaker 3 (06:56):
And KPIs along those lines as it relates to tech,
to invest to the political spear, the number of women
running for office, holding office, retaining office. Those are all
things that we look at to you know, try and
drive and see the moving the needle in women's participation
in the most important places in our society.
Speaker 1 (07:17):
Do you get a sense that people who may have
special needs, whether they be elderly, you know, actually any
special needs disability accessibility that they often get too often
get left out of the conversation of innovation.
Speaker 3 (07:31):
I think they do because again it's they're perhaps unseen
if you just spoil it down to it. And you know,
venture is the engine for innovation.
Speaker 2 (07:41):
Venture capitalist, I like to think of it that way.
Speaker 3 (07:44):
Like that venture investors or who funds innovation in this
in our society, in this country for the most part,
right in the tech space. Venture capitalists are not a
diverse set of folks, you know, and we begin see.
Speaker 2 (07:59):
Move and and again I'm speaking of diversity in all.
Speaker 3 (08:05):
Aspects right gender, race, you know, socioeconomic background, you know,
sexual orientation, disability, all all of those things. And I
think if you the lived experience that you bring to
the table really matters, and that has an impact on
how you source, how you underwrite, you know, what ideas.
Speaker 2 (08:25):
Get to the table and get funded.
Speaker 3 (08:27):
So as you said, you know, the folks that you
know may look different, have a different set of challenges
and problems. Perhaps aren't you know, we're not building solutions
for them because the people that are funding it, you know,
don't live it.
Speaker 2 (08:40):
They don't they don't see it. And I come back
to that often, you know, with caregiving.
Speaker 3 (08:44):
Like I said, you know, as we look at some
of these companies and we've backed in our portfolio at pivotal,
but just even more broadly out in the ecosystem.
Speaker 2 (08:52):
You know, as a mom and a caregiver myself.
Speaker 3 (08:54):
I see like wow, Like you know, Summer Health, which
is a company that we invested in twenty four to seven,
three sixty five text pediatric care for families.
Speaker 2 (09:03):
It's like I could use that. I remember times when
my kids were like very.
Speaker 3 (09:08):
Small and I'm like googling stuff, thinking that they're literally.
Speaker 2 (09:11):
About to die. It turns out it was something very minor.
Speaker 3 (09:14):
But that's a real solution that leverages AI and other
aspects to you know, and you know, creates less burnout
for pediatricians.
Speaker 2 (09:22):
It's a win win on both sides.
Speaker 3 (09:24):
And so the founder of that company is a mom herself,
a mom of three, like acutely could appreciate the need
and the gap in that market. And so that's the
kind of stuff that I think really matters and that
you know, we need to build again just a greater
sense of inclusivity into the system and it'll drive you know, what,
I think, a ton more innovation and economic growth and
(09:46):
opportunity for all of us.
Speaker 1 (09:48):
You know, there's these kind of two statements I'm going
to make, and it's interesting to me how.
Speaker 4 (09:55):
They correlate to care because we say it's.
Speaker 1 (09:58):
A nice thing to do, it's the right thing to do.
But we've also said that about investing in black founders.
You know, it's the nice thing to do with the
right thing to do, but we've had difficulty communicating or
getting results on that. The returns are there, and it's
proven that the returns are there for black founders or
(10:18):
diverse founding teams.
Speaker 4 (10:20):
So you brought up these.
Speaker 1 (10:22):
Huge numbers with the market opportunity, but still have a
more difficult time than you should getting people to pay
attention to the care economy.
Speaker 4 (10:33):
Why is that?
Speaker 2 (10:35):
It's a oh gosh, that's these are tough questions well.
Speaker 3 (10:40):
But good but good to ones.
Speaker 2 (10:41):
I love it, No, I mean it really comes back to.
Speaker 3 (10:48):
You know, I think you you have to like you said,
you can make the case with data. You know that
that matters, But people have to see and I think,
have these opportunities feel and be more more tangible and
and real to them at the end of the day
at the end of the day too, and and and.
Speaker 2 (11:10):
You know, I I agree with you. I think the
hearts and mind.
Speaker 3 (11:13):
Arguments for why you should invest in these sectors that
we're talking about, you know, healthcare, women's health, mental health,
et cetera.
Speaker 2 (11:20):
Or why you.
Speaker 3 (11:21):
Should support diverse founders, black founders. You know, that's great,
but that's not going to move the needle, right like
you you have to, I think, really make it apparent
and tangible to folks. You know what they're missing, what
they're missing out on, and that and that proof. I
mean it takes a long time specifically in venture, but
that'll come through in the performance.
Speaker 2 (11:43):
You know, we.
Speaker 3 (11:45):
Investing a lot of times people rely, I think to
a fault too much on pattern recognition. And that's that's fine, right,
Like we all do that as humans, right, we all
have our biases. But I think stepping back to pause
and check some of them and just really interrogate, you know,
is this pattern the best pattern?
Speaker 2 (12:06):
Right? Like or or I.
Speaker 3 (12:08):
Often will say as well when people ask about our
diligence process at Pivotal, Oh, well you're you know, you're
just investing in women mostly or these themes like you know,
care economy.
Speaker 2 (12:19):
It has to be lower return or you must be
lowering the bar.
Speaker 3 (12:23):
I say, no, I would stack up our portfolio against
any other investors. I said, you know, we're not lowering
the bar, We're just reframing the bar. And so I
think it's it's shifting those mindsets, disrupting some of those
those those truisms and patterns is what's really needed to
drive that that change in the ecosystem in a in
(12:45):
a more sustainable way.
Speaker 4 (12:47):
Very good, very good.
Speaker 1 (12:49):
You know this is quote I found from you or
you said, we think if we're putting more capital in
the hands of women, they're going to unlock solutions to
some of the biggest problems that are facing.
Speaker 4 (12:59):
Our society today.
Speaker 1 (13:02):
So talk of awesome examples on what that idea concept.
Speaker 4 (13:06):
Is based on.
Speaker 3 (13:07):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, you know, it really comes back to
you know, I think some of what you know I
said before, and you know, the pace of sort of
gender equity is slow.
Speaker 2 (13:20):
Right.
Speaker 3 (13:20):
If at the current rate we're going, you know, it'll
take generations.
Speaker 2 (13:25):
I'll be long.
Speaker 5 (13:25):
Gone, my daughter might be logged on before before we
get there.
Speaker 3 (13:30):
But that doesn't mean that we're not seeing the opportunity
as as you noted, and I think for us, I
can point to a couple of examples, you know, specifically
in our portfolio that I think, you know.
Speaker 2 (13:45):
Have helped this ring true.
Speaker 3 (13:49):
You know, these are funds, many of them that are
you know, again the funds that we invest in. There's
a two parts of our investment strategy fund investments and
then direct investment into companies. And these funds are all
women majority women owned and led, but they're investing across
a variety of themes and sectors.
Speaker 2 (14:06):
Right, we have more generalist funds.
Speaker 3 (14:08):
We have funds that are fintech focused, digital health focus,
investing in AI, you know.
Speaker 2 (14:14):
You name it, it's it's in our portfolio, and I
think you know.
Speaker 3 (14:19):
But they're all of these fund managers have in edge
and sort of how they're approaching and thinking about their sourcing,
their stewardship, you know, their strategy, how they add value
for their portfolio companies.
Speaker 2 (14:35):
So again I mentioned VBG Ventures earlier.
Speaker 3 (14:38):
They're investing in, you know, a broad set of diverse
you know founders really leaning into that thesis about the
polycultural America.
Speaker 2 (14:47):
You know.
Speaker 3 (14:48):
Rethink Impact is a fund that that we've invested in.
Now we're multiple fund cycles focusing on female and non
binary founders, but across a variety of different themes and sectors. Sustainability,
you know, education, healthcare, et cetera. And you know, many
of the companies that they've backed again are building. These
founders are building in spaces where they're real meaningful, meaningful
(15:12):
gaps you know, in the in the in the economy.
In our direct portfolio, you know, we've backed companies like
Tia that are promoting new models of care for for
women's well being and centering women the kind of whole
health experience for for women, and how they've built their
their platform and their and their clinics. Little Lotter provides
(15:33):
comprehensive you know, mental health care for children and their families, So,
you know, kind of I think a through line in
all of these examples is is a is a willingness
to sort of see, you know.
Speaker 2 (15:44):
The needs of consumers a little bit different, you know.
Speaker 3 (15:47):
One two The archetype of what a successful investor looks like,
you know, can be very different.
Speaker 2 (15:52):
I think we're willing to.
Speaker 3 (15:54):
You know, step in and take those risks and back people,
particularly on the fund manager side, very early, and partner
with them and support them as they build and scale
what will be the next generation of leading menture capital firms.
I mean, you asked one more thing, I'll say, well
about success yeah. You know, I think for our strategy,
you know, in ten or fifteen years, it's it's someone
(16:15):
looking at the funds that we've invested in at Pivotal
and say, wow, you know, the French Gates invested in
this firm and a fun one, and these are now
the platforms and the firms that are the leading in
you know, franchises, any venture, and they're going to be
more diverse let than they have been historically. You know,
(16:37):
the types of folks that are more women on the Midas.
Speaker 2 (16:39):
List, all of those you know, metrics and lists and
criteria that we look at.
Speaker 3 (16:45):
You know, success for us is that, you know, they
look and reflect a more diverse set of perspectives.
Speaker 1 (16:53):
Love it, you know, and just looking at some of
your past work, I've seen that you've observed, you know,
the conversations around inclusion in VC have cooled a bit,
you know, amidst a lot of external forces and challenges.
So what strategies can industry leaders use to you know,
(17:14):
keep that alive, keep it ignited even in the face
of resistance.
Speaker 2 (17:20):
Yeah, yeah, I mean our work matters now more than ever.
You know. I like to say we've perhaps had a
little bit of a wind in our sales and around
you know, in diversity and inclusion. Over the last few years,
that's changing.
Speaker 3 (17:38):
But we're at least at pivotal going to continue to
highlight the inequities that exist across various industries, tech, finance, government,
the political spirit, et cetera.
Speaker 2 (17:52):
And get the capital to those that are performing.
Speaker 3 (17:56):
Right, Like I always say, like I'm not investing in
people that are in funds and in companies that are
that we don't underwrite and believe have an opportunity to
deliver you know, great results back to us and to
the other investors. And so, you know, I think in
the midst of these external challenges, you really have to
come back to, like I said, less of the heartstrings
(18:19):
and more the economic case, right, Like so much of
the discourse has turned to you know, anti this, anti that.
Speaker 2 (18:26):
Well, let's be pro who's who's not pro economic growth?
Speaker 3 (18:29):
Like the pie like me me or a black founder
or a woman leader. Getting an investment does not mean
that there's less for someone else. I think this is
going to create more opportunity for everyone.
Speaker 2 (18:42):
And so I come back to like, those types.
Speaker 3 (18:44):
Of arguments are the ones that I think we need
to be be making and more of the asset framing
versus the deficit framing, right, like like take it out
of the negative and have people see, you know, the
real expansiveness of the opportunity when you center you know,
diversity and inclusion in the work that you're doing. There's
been a ton of research Mackenzie and others that have
(19:05):
put out, you know, that show this, more diverse teams,
companies you know, perform better, have better results over time,
and we're holding back our GDP. If the gender gap
were narrowed, it would be like tens of trillions of dollars,
so it would be flowing in the economy, right, And
so I just encourage all of us to lean on
(19:29):
those stats and let that you know, sort of continue
to animate our work and just do the work right,
like find these great companies, these great fund managers, get
them the support that they need so that they can
build and be excellent. And we're committed to continuing to
do that at Pivotal Ventures.
Speaker 1 (19:49):
Is this other quote I found where you said the
care economy, the need to create a modern caregiving system
that supports families of all types. That's where innovation starts.
We need to get more women to these technology roles,
into STEM, into education, so they can be founders of
tomorrow and the leaders in these tech businesses. So my
question is is two, it's two part. I hate to
(20:09):
ask two part questions, but this is yeah, okay.
Speaker 4 (20:11):
Yeah, I know you can handle it.
Speaker 1 (20:12):
So you've described as you know, you said, the care
economy is foundational to innovation and societal progress. So that's
one question, how is it foundational too, you know, innovation
and to side of progress. And then two, what systemic
changes do you believe are necessary to most urgently modernize
you know, our caregiving ecosystem and the opportunities for women.
Speaker 3 (20:35):
Yeah, yeah, I'd say so the first part of the question.
You know, we we need to we need to make
life easier for caregivers in our countries. So to do that,
we need, you know, a more diverse set of entrepreneurs
and investors, like building sustainable business models that deliver these solutions.
Speaker 2 (20:58):
Instead. I saw recently we look at a lot of
mini stats, but a.
Speaker 5 (21:02):
Lot of the barriers, a lot of the barriers that
hold women back from reaching leadership positions, you know, starting businesses,
leadership positions in their companies, and caregiving is one of
the biggest ones.
Speaker 2 (21:16):
Right.
Speaker 3 (21:17):
So women spend an average of about twenty two hours
per week on unpaid care work. Men spend about fourteen,
So that delta is huge, right, And I think part
of what we're.
Speaker 2 (21:28):
Trying to solve for is.
Speaker 3 (21:31):
Again getting more of these innovation and ideas to unlock
that potential so that women and men too write can
spend more time. I mean that unpaid care work is
so important and so foundational, but there are ways that
we can make that less burdensome in some ways so
that women and men too write can go out and
(21:53):
fully participate in our you know, in the economic sphere.
Speaker 2 (21:57):
Right, So that's why it's foundational.
Speaker 3 (22:00):
The second part of our question will around like what
is it going to take too, you know, kind of spectemically, yeah,
to like drive this change, you know, part of it.
And this is what I really think is powerful about
our approach at Pivotal is we apply multiple levers to
advancing to advanced social progress in women's power investing is
(22:24):
one and a key one, but we also leverage philanthropy.
Speaker 2 (22:27):
We also leverage policy and advocacy work.
Speaker 3 (22:30):
And innovation investing is essential to create a more modern
caregiving system. We also need good policy around that too,
and so so I view that as like the key
a key unlock. You can have all the best ideas
and fund them, but if the government is not stepping
(22:52):
in to support that at the state, you know, local.
Speaker 2 (22:55):
Federal levels, at all levels.
Speaker 3 (22:58):
I mean, one example of this is some work we
done it Pivotal over the years to advance paid leave.
Speaker 2 (23:02):
The United States is the only.
Speaker 3 (23:05):
Advanced economy in the world that does not have paid
leave for caregivers.
Speaker 2 (23:12):
And we got very close. We've gotten very close multiple times.
Speaker 3 (23:15):
But I view policies like that, you know, the government
has to step in at a certain point and make
this a priority, these issues of priority to allow that innovation.
And then philanthropy too, addressing some of the market failures
that exists. So all three, and that's that's I think
what's incredibly powerful about how we show up at Pivotal
is that we're tackling these big and tractable, like systemic
(23:38):
problems with all the tools in our toolbox.
Speaker 1 (23:41):
Yeah, and while technology has the potential to address some
of these gaps, you've recognized that it's not a standalone solution,
you know. So I think about AI, So how do
you how you envision AI working alongside policy changes or
you know, entrepreneurs, How does AI accelerate that progress?
Speaker 4 (24:05):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (24:06):
AI is foundational. It's table stakes.
Speaker 3 (24:08):
Now. I often joke and I'll say if I go
into a meeting or an event and I don't talk
about it AI, as I mentioned, I'm sort of like, well,
what's going on? But we need to ensure that we're
not that we're building it and leveraging it, using it responsibly,
and not perpetuating the same biases and issues it exists currently.
(24:31):
Right Like, to me, that's that would be a terrible
outcome as if we're sitting here having this conversation in two, five, ten,
twenty years and we're we've taken AI and put it
in a place you know, that's that's that's creating more
harm than good.
Speaker 2 (24:50):
So that's where policy matters, I think again.
Speaker 3 (24:53):
And you know, look, I'm not saying you don't you
want to you don't want to overregulate. You want to
make sure that there's space for innovation. But you have
to strike that balance I think with with AI to
to get to the to the spot where we where
we need to be to make sure that we're not
again just running back the same, the same old playbook.
(25:13):
But I get really excited about what you know, AI
can do specifically in the caregiving and kind of healthcare space,
just to advance research patient care.
Speaker 2 (25:23):
You know, we see AI and the care economy intersecting
a ton.
Speaker 3 (25:28):
Is you're as you're looking at that again kind of infrastructure, Uh,
that's needed to modernize and automate the caregiving and kind
of healthcare system.
Speaker 2 (25:38):
You know, AI can can be a huge part of that.
Speaker 3 (25:41):
So I mentioned summer Health earlier, one of our portfolio companies.
You know, they've been redesigning kind of their care operating
system to integrate you know, AI more into that platform,
to improve kind of efficiency patient interface AI use cases,
so sort of you know, different ways that they can
(26:01):
build AI into the product. And they're doing that sort
of from from day one. So it's hugely exciting, right,
and it'll make it probably a better user experience, more efficient,
and we're seeing you know, that's just one example, but
I think you know, one of many in our portfolio
and just you know, more generally we're seeing across the
tech landscape.
Speaker 1 (26:20):
Yeah, you mentioned you know AI. At this point, it's
table stakes and for people like this is that means
it's got to be there. It's obvious, Like that's just
you're just doing the bare minimum almost. Yeah, and so
for that because it's so quickly table stakes, because most
of us to last eighteen months are just getting aware
of user facing AI, you know, CHATCHYPT like.
Speaker 2 (26:42):
Now chat Gypt, I do you know. I'm like, I
put everything in a chat a year ago, I was like,
what is chatgy?
Speaker 1 (26:50):
So with I mean, I still I still talk to
people every day who are not using which is baffling
to me. I'm like, I could say anybody four hours
out of their day just by using this stuff. But
I think about because so many people are still so
far behind. I mean, you and I we may live
in a bubble in some respects, Like we talk about
this stuff all the time, but how do we You
talked about policy, and I want you to go deeper
(27:11):
on this is how do we make sure that as
we integrate AI and other technologies into caregiving, how do
we not introduce new inequalities?
Speaker 3 (27:22):
Yeah, no, I mean it's it's it's the well you
don't ask what keeps me up at night? But that's
sort of it in your question, right, it's it's it's
things of that nature, right, you know, how we're taking
and using tech and innovation that leaves people in populations, individuals,
(27:43):
communities behind.
Speaker 2 (27:46):
That's unacceptable.
Speaker 3 (27:48):
We do not want that as an as an outcome,
and so I think to address it, you know a
lot of it. And again in the work that we
do it at Pivotal, it's it's that education. It's figuring
out how to get these tools two more people on
the way in a way that they.
Speaker 2 (28:05):
Can build trust and build knowledge around how to around
how to how.
Speaker 3 (28:09):
To use it, because like you said, AI should just
not be for those of us that are you know,
the tech elite that sit in you know, New York
and San Francisco, a c or whatever your your your
big city and and kind of are already inclined to
use this stuff. So again I think it has to
go back to how we're setting this up, you in
(28:31):
for kids, right, like my kids are you know, the
stuff is like showing up in elementary school and like
how they're how they're using it, and so you know,
I think for for them and making sure that those
systems are you know, sort of fairly being set up,
uh that they would opportunity to learn and ask questions early,
(28:51):
but that there's opportunities in the in a community based
way for for others to to start to gain more
facility and understanding of how these things work.
Speaker 2 (29:01):
Because yeah, a bad outcome. Another bad outcome is.
Speaker 3 (29:04):
You know, you build kind of like the tools I
was describing with some of our portfolio companies at Leveraging
AI and then you have users again, it it becomes
a not a ninety nine percent solution, it's a one percent.
Speaker 2 (29:15):
Solution, right if we're not bringing everyone along.
Speaker 3 (29:17):
So we need to make sure that that education is there,
that opportunity is there to really leverage it from from
the beginning.
Speaker 1 (29:27):
Yeah, you talked earlier, which it struck me because I'm
very interested in this. You said, you know, care also
includes things you put in your body, you know, so
we're having a growing conversation.
Speaker 4 (29:37):
About the foods we eat, the et cetera.
Speaker 1 (29:40):
All these things, and you know, what are some other
overlooked or you can go you can double down on that,
what are some overlooked opportunities within the.
Speaker 4 (29:48):
Care space that you believe could.
Speaker 1 (29:51):
Also drive significant societal and economic impact for that matter, Yeah.
Speaker 3 (29:57):
I wouldn't necessarily well, maybe over but yeah, I don't
know if i'd say overlooked, but I think maybe under
or appreciated or complex perhaps the way to describe it.
You know, childcare is tough, uh.
Speaker 2 (30:11):
I think it's tough for tech and venture sort of
scale ability. I haven't lost.
Speaker 3 (30:18):
Faith or I'm still searching, hoping to find solutions to
sort of crack that that that nut, so to speak,
because of anything. You know that those early years, right
are again also foundational. You know, women stepping out of
the workforce to care for their for their kids or
family members. Again very important work, but there there there
(30:41):
has to be we have to find a way. And
this is again where policy could come into to tap
it on and unlock that. So so I think childcare
is tricky, but I still view it as a complex,
but I still view it as an opportunity. Yeah, I
think these acute kind of caregiving moments or spaces also
represent a big or complex but represent an opportunity. Maternal
(31:07):
health kind of that both pre and postpartum phase we
have in this country some of the worst maternal health outcomes,
particularly for black women, right, And so there's a there's
a huge gap and care there that that I think
we need to figure out how to solve in that
women's health and kind of care space to menopause. Right, Like,
(31:28):
I've been astounded as I've read and spent more time
with some companies building in this space, just how underfunded,
how under research. You know, people just doctors just brush
pasts like women who are really you know, struggling, right
is they as they move through that phase of life
and it has impacts on your eble to maybe work
(31:49):
or travel or take on as much responsibility when you're
going through that.
Speaker 2 (31:53):
So that, as I.
Speaker 3 (31:54):
Mentioned, dementia care kind of into life another kind of
acute moment mental health as well. So the those would
be a couple that I call out that again not
necessarily overlooked, but I think complex and I represent a
huge opportunity for more innovation.
Speaker 1 (32:11):
Finally, one more quote from you, because there's a lot
of them. I'm like, these are really good. There's one
you said, instead of a demoralizing story about stalled progress,
we can and should tell a story about the women
of color across an industry.
Speaker 4 (32:27):
Who have pushed ahead.
Speaker 1 (32:28):
And so my question there is about framing and how
important is framing when we have issues You know, but
the storytelling you how you tell the story matters. But
the numbers are still the numbers. But how important is
the framing of that story?
Speaker 2 (32:45):
The framing is is the key. That's it.
Speaker 3 (32:50):
You said it will and that quote you referenced in
that piece part of what you know. In partner with
some of our fund managers that were highlighted, and they're
including Maria Rivera and Lulu Venture's Promise Fela and at
Groveoria Capital.
Speaker 2 (33:07):
You know, they are just excellent investors, operators.
Speaker 3 (33:11):
You know, Miriam was early at Google, She's been in
the game for a very long time, has built a
tremendous track record. And yes she's Afro Latina, but she's
just a badass investor, right. And part of it is
less of oh, we're helping them, oh they like No,
let's just talk about why they win and how they're good.
(33:33):
And that's where the storytelling and the framing matters. And
it's about the asset, not the deficit. That's what I
come back to, and I don't I'm kind of over
the let's just write a story about women of color being.
Speaker 2 (33:47):
Women of you know, because they're women of color.
Speaker 3 (33:48):
It's like, no, you should have a woman of color
on every story in every list because they're excellent and
they're great investors, or they're great founders and they're doing
something innovative, indifferent And the other thing I put to
is like, if you can't see it, you can't be
it right. So that representation, getting those examples out there
(34:09):
is so important, and it matters about the you know
who whose stories we tell, and so it's something that
I spend.
Speaker 2 (34:17):
A lot of time thinking about.
Speaker 3 (34:19):
Our team works really hard to make sure that our partners,
these fund managers and founders are being seen not just
because they're women, but because they're great investors who are
women too.
Speaker 1 (34:34):
Black Tech Green Money is a production of Blavity, Afro Tech,
The Black Effect Podcast, Networking Night Hire Media. It's produced
by Morgan Debaun and me Well Lucas, with the additional
production support by Kate McDonald and Jada McGee.
Speaker 4 (34:46):
Special thank you to Michael.
Speaker 1 (34:48):
Davis and Lovebeach. Learn more about my Guess Other Tech.
This show is an innovators at afrotech dot Com. Video
version this episode will drop to Black Tech Green Money
on YouTube, So tap it in enjoy your Black Tech
Green Money, Shout us Somebody go get your money, peace
and love.
I'm Will Lucas and this is black tech, green money.
Aaron Hark is the senior director of Investments at Pivotal Ventures,
a Melinda frisch Kate's company. She's focused on social progress
in the United States, specifically in a six hundred forty
eight billion dollar sector, the care economy, which includes childcare,
elder care, mental health, and woman's health. In the mainstream
(00:25):
technology landscape, do we care enough about the elderly or
disablers when you think about care?
Speaker 2 (00:35):
Yeah, yeah, great question.
Speaker 3 (00:38):
Will.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
The short answer is no, and we're missing.
Speaker 3 (00:41):
A big opportunity because we are not prioritizing those populations.
You know, We've done some work at Pivotal Ventures with
our partners to size the care economy. It's a six
hundred and forty eight billion dollar market.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
I just like to.
Speaker 3 (00:58):
Pause and like let that sit with you and with
our listeners, because it's huge. It's bigger than the pharmaceutical industry.
But a lot of that is or things that we
don't see right And you know, we're all, I like
to say, we're all caregivers at some point in our lives.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
Whether you're a parent, you're caring for people.
Speaker 3 (01:17):
That you know are meaningful to you in your life,
family members, parents, et cetera. And a lot of that
work is unseen, unappreciated, and much of it also falls
to women. So it's a huge opportunity that I think
is massively overlooked. And you know, particularly as we you know,
(01:38):
you mentioned the elderly and the aging population, we can
no longer ignore these demographic shifts around the globe, but
particularly here in the United States, we're in the midst
it's coming. It's the silver tsunami. It's a phrase that
I've heard many times, but there are over sixty million
Americans that are age sixty five.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
Yes, baby boomers account for over thirty percent of our
nation's wealth. So it's huge spending power, huge part of
the population, and they need more innovation, right like, they're
going to be increasingly more and more elderly folks coming online,
you know, as the baby boomer. You know, I'm a millennial.
Speaker 3 (02:20):
I realized I'm beginning to middle age, right Like, it's
just going to grow and increase, and so it's really
an economic imperative for us to innovate in this market
and create more opportunities to support caregivers and caregiving.
Speaker 1 (02:35):
So I would define, you know, the care economy asy
and unless ask you to pick anything I didn't include.
But I think about childcare, I think about elder care,
I think about health technology. You know what criteria do
you use to determine which sectors you know or innovations
to invest in?
Speaker 3 (02:53):
Yeah, all of those are in the frame for us
at Pivotal Ventures. As we think about the care economy,
we really start with our investment thesis in our direct
investments and care looking at tech solutions that reduce burdens
of care, lower cost of care, and improve access to care.
And that's everything you know, from as you said, beginning
(03:13):
to life to end of life, childcare, mental health for
youth and families, general health tech, women's health, aging, longevity space,
dementia care again, that full gamut, and it's it's for
us at least. We look to prioritize solutions that are
not just for the one percent, that are going to
reach ninety nine percent of Americans and really unlock you
(03:35):
better again care solutions for all of us.
Speaker 1 (03:41):
So when you when you talk about how big the
opportunity is today, are there trends that tell you this
is going.
Speaker 4 (03:48):
To only grow?
Speaker 1 (03:50):
I say, what trends obviously is going to grow, but
what trends indicate that Yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:54):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (03:56):
I point back to that stat I shared earlier about
the demographic shifts and just the graying and the aging
of our society. People are also living longer, you know,
we're hoping to see that convergence between the life span
and the health span. So as you live longer, hopefully
you're living healthier as well. I think, so those are
That's one trend I think, a greater focus you know,
(04:18):
amongst consumers about what they are putting, you know, into
their bodies, right, and the impacts that that has, you know,
on your lifestyle choices, how you're living, how long you're living,
you know, all of those. Those are probably two big
ones I point to. You know, another one too, is
just we're living in.
Speaker 2 (04:38):
A more diverse society.
Speaker 3 (04:41):
One of our partners in our fun portfolio, BBG Ventures,
has done some research with around what they call the
polycultural America.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
You know, it's more multi racial, fifty three percent.
Speaker 3 (04:54):
Of Americans under the age of eighteen or non non white, right,
and that number is also you know, only on a
continue to grow, and that wealth gap also continues to
widen across you race, age, worker type. So these are
all themes and trends that I think have a huge
impact on how we should be building innovation and building
(05:16):
more inclusive systems and ideas at the table to meet
the needs and demands of this incredibly rich and diverse
tapestry of a society that we have here in the
United States and around the globe.
Speaker 1 (05:28):
Yeah, you know your work and you know pivotal ventures,
you know at large aims to don't do a lot
of work to advance women's power and influence. How do
you measure that? How do you define success in that regard?
Speaker 3 (05:43):
Yeah, it's it's a great question, and it's one you know,
I spend a lot of time thinking about because it
is a.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
Big, you know, lofty goal.
Speaker 3 (05:53):
You know, we're on a mission, and our principle, Melinda Frenchgates,
has committed you know, her time and capital to this,
you know, advancing women's power and influence around the globe.
You know, what we're measuring is really wanting to see
women in positions to make decisions, control resources, shape the
(06:14):
policies and perspectives and our homes and our workplaces and.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
In our communities.
Speaker 3 (06:18):
So that's across you know, a variety of dimensions and levers,
you know, specific to the work that I lead in
our investment strategy. You know, we're hoping to change the
face of the investment industry and venture capital specifically when
we started Pivotal, you know, nine years ago or so,
and even rolling back the clock before that, you know,
(06:39):
about nine percent of decision makers and check writers at
US venture capital firms or women.
Speaker 2 (06:45):
That number now sits closer to.
Speaker 3 (06:46):
Eighteen percent, So, you know, a nice growth you know
in the last you know, couple of years.
Speaker 2 (06:53):
We still have a ways to go, though, so we
have metrics.
Speaker 3 (06:56):
And KPIs along those lines as it relates to tech,
to invest to the political spear, the number of women
running for office, holding office, retaining office. Those are all
things that we look at to you know, try and
drive and see the moving the needle in women's participation
in the most important places in our society.
Speaker 1 (07:17):
Do you get a sense that people who may have
special needs, whether they be elderly, you know, actually any
special needs disability accessibility that they often get too often
get left out of the conversation of innovation.
Speaker 3 (07:31):
I think they do because again it's they're perhaps unseen
if you just spoil it down to it. And you know,
venture is the engine for innovation.
Speaker 2 (07:41):
Venture capitalist, I like to think of it that way.
Speaker 3 (07:44):
Like that venture investors or who funds innovation in this
in our society, in this country for the most part,
right in the tech space. Venture capitalists are not a
diverse set of folks, you know, and we begin see.
Speaker 2 (07:59):
Move and and again I'm speaking of diversity in all.
Speaker 3 (08:05):
Aspects right gender, race, you know, socioeconomic background, you know,
sexual orientation, disability, all all of those things. And I
think if you the lived experience that you bring to
the table really matters, and that has an impact on
how you source, how you underwrite, you know, what ideas.
Speaker 2 (08:25):
Get to the table and get funded.
Speaker 3 (08:27):
So as you said, you know, the folks that you
know may look different, have a different set of challenges
and problems. Perhaps aren't you know, we're not building solutions
for them because the people that are funding it, you know,
don't live it.
Speaker 2 (08:40):
They don't they don't see it. And I come back
to that often, you know, with caregiving.
Speaker 3 (08:44):
Like I said, you know, as we look at some
of these companies and we've backed in our portfolio at pivotal,
but just even more broadly out in the ecosystem.
Speaker 2 (08:52):
You know, as a mom and a caregiver myself.
Speaker 3 (08:54):
I see like wow, Like you know, Summer Health, which
is a company that we invested in twenty four to seven,
three sixty five text pediatric care for families.
Speaker 2 (09:03):
It's like I could use that. I remember times when
my kids were like very.
Speaker 3 (09:08):
Small and I'm like googling stuff, thinking that they're literally.
Speaker 2 (09:11):
About to die. It turns out it was something very minor.
Speaker 3 (09:14):
But that's a real solution that leverages AI and other
aspects to you know, and you know, creates less burnout
for pediatricians.
Speaker 2 (09:22):
It's a win win on both sides.
Speaker 3 (09:24):
And so the founder of that company is a mom herself,
a mom of three, like acutely could appreciate the need
and the gap in that market. And so that's the
kind of stuff that I think really matters and that
you know, we need to build again just a greater
sense of inclusivity into the system and it'll drive you know, what,
I think, a ton more innovation and economic growth and
(09:46):
opportunity for all of us.
Speaker 1 (09:48):
You know, there's these kind of two statements I'm going
to make, and it's interesting to me how.
Speaker 4 (09:55):
They correlate to care because we say it's.
Speaker 1 (09:58):
A nice thing to do, it's the right thing to do.
But we've also said that about investing in black founders.
You know, it's the nice thing to do with the
right thing to do, but we've had difficulty communicating or
getting results on that. The returns are there, and it's
proven that the returns are there for black founders or
(10:18):
diverse founding teams.
Speaker 4 (10:20):
So you brought up these.
Speaker 1 (10:22):
Huge numbers with the market opportunity, but still have a
more difficult time than you should getting people to pay
attention to the care economy.
Speaker 4 (10:33):
Why is that?
Speaker 2 (10:35):
It's a oh gosh, that's these are tough questions well.
Speaker 3 (10:40):
But good but good to ones.
Speaker 2 (10:41):
I love it, No, I mean it really comes back to.
Speaker 3 (10:48):
You know, I think you you have to like you said,
you can make the case with data. You know that
that matters, But people have to see and I think,
have these opportunities feel and be more more tangible and
and real to them at the end of the day
at the end of the day too, and and and.
Speaker 2 (11:10):
You know, I I agree with you. I think the
hearts and mind.
Speaker 3 (11:13):
Arguments for why you should invest in these sectors that
we're talking about, you know, healthcare, women's health, mental health,
et cetera.
Speaker 2 (11:20):
Or why you.
Speaker 3 (11:21):
Should support diverse founders, black founders. You know, that's great,
but that's not going to move the needle, right like
you you have to, I think, really make it apparent
and tangible to folks. You know what they're missing, what
they're missing out on, and that and that proof. I
mean it takes a long time specifically in venture, but
that'll come through in the performance.
Speaker 2 (11:43):
You know, we.
Speaker 3 (11:45):
Investing a lot of times people rely, I think to
a fault too much on pattern recognition. And that's that's fine, right,
Like we all do that as humans, right, we all
have our biases. But I think stepping back to pause
and check some of them and just really interrogate, you know,
is this pattern the best pattern?
Speaker 2 (12:06):
Right? Like or or I.
Speaker 3 (12:08):
Often will say as well when people ask about our
diligence process at Pivotal, Oh, well you're you know, you're
just investing in women mostly or these themes like you know,
care economy.
Speaker 2 (12:19):
It has to be lower return or you must be
lowering the bar.
Speaker 3 (12:23):
I say, no, I would stack up our portfolio against
any other investors. I said, you know, we're not lowering
the bar, We're just reframing the bar. And so I
think it's it's shifting those mindsets, disrupting some of those
those those truisms and patterns is what's really needed to
drive that that change in the ecosystem in a in
(12:45):
a more sustainable way.
Speaker 4 (12:47):
Very good, very good.
Speaker 1 (12:49):
You know this is quote I found from you or
you said, we think if we're putting more capital in
the hands of women, they're going to unlock solutions to
some of the biggest problems that are facing.
Speaker 4 (12:59):
Our society today.
Speaker 1 (13:02):
So talk of awesome examples on what that idea concept.
Speaker 4 (13:06):
Is based on.
Speaker 3 (13:07):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, you know, it really comes back to
you know, I think some of what you know I
said before, and you know, the pace of sort of
gender equity is slow.
Speaker 2 (13:20):
Right.
Speaker 3 (13:20):
If at the current rate we're going, you know, it'll
take generations.
Speaker 2 (13:25):
I'll be long.
Speaker 5 (13:25):
Gone, my daughter might be logged on before before we
get there.
Speaker 3 (13:30):
But that doesn't mean that we're not seeing the opportunity
as as you noted, and I think for us, I
can point to a couple of examples, you know, specifically
in our portfolio that I think, you know.
Speaker 2 (13:45):
Have helped this ring true.
Speaker 3 (13:49):
You know, these are funds, many of them that are
you know, again the funds that we invest in. There's
a two parts of our investment strategy fund investments and
then direct investment into companies. And these funds are all
women majority women owned and led, but they're investing across
a variety of themes and sectors.
Speaker 2 (14:06):
Right, we have more generalist funds.
Speaker 3 (14:08):
We have funds that are fintech focused, digital health focus,
investing in AI, you know.
Speaker 2 (14:14):
You name it, it's it's in our portfolio, and I
think you know.
Speaker 3 (14:19):
But they're all of these fund managers have in edge
and sort of how they're approaching and thinking about their sourcing,
their stewardship, you know, their strategy, how they add value
for their portfolio companies.
Speaker 2 (14:35):
So again I mentioned VBG Ventures earlier.
Speaker 3 (14:38):
They're investing in, you know, a broad set of diverse
you know founders really leaning into that thesis about the
polycultural America.
Speaker 2 (14:47):
You know.
Speaker 3 (14:48):
Rethink Impact is a fund that that we've invested in.
Now we're multiple fund cycles focusing on female and non
binary founders, but across a variety of different themes and sectors. Sustainability,
you know, education, healthcare, et cetera. And you know, many
of the companies that they've backed again are building. These
founders are building in spaces where they're real meaningful, meaningful
(15:12):
gaps you know, in the in the in the economy.
In our direct portfolio, you know, we've backed companies like
Tia that are promoting new models of care for for
women's well being and centering women the kind of whole
health experience for for women, and how they've built their
their platform and their and their clinics. Little Lotter provides
(15:33):
comprehensive you know, mental health care for children and their families, So,
you know, kind of I think a through line in
all of these examples is is a is a willingness
to sort of see, you know.
Speaker 2 (15:44):
The needs of consumers a little bit different, you know.
Speaker 3 (15:47):
One two The archetype of what a successful investor looks like,
you know, can be very different.
Speaker 2 (15:52):
I think we're willing to.
Speaker 3 (15:54):
You know, step in and take those risks and back people,
particularly on the fund manager side, very early, and partner
with them and support them as they build and scale
what will be the next generation of leading menture capital firms.
I mean, you asked one more thing, I'll say, well
about success yeah. You know, I think for our strategy,
you know, in ten or fifteen years, it's it's someone
(16:15):
looking at the funds that we've invested in at Pivotal
and say, wow, you know, the French Gates invested in
this firm and a fun one, and these are now
the platforms and the firms that are the leading in
you know, franchises, any venture, and they're going to be
more diverse let than they have been historically. You know,
(16:37):
the types of folks that are more women on the Midas.
Speaker 2 (16:39):
List, all of those you know, metrics and lists and
criteria that we look at.
Speaker 3 (16:45):
You know, success for us is that, you know, they
look and reflect a more diverse set of perspectives.
Speaker 1 (16:53):
Love it, you know, and just looking at some of
your past work, I've seen that you've observed, you know,
the conversations around inclusion in VC have cooled a bit,
you know, amidst a lot of external forces and challenges.
So what strategies can industry leaders use to you know,
(17:14):
keep that alive, keep it ignited even in the face
of resistance.
Speaker 2 (17:20):
Yeah, yeah, I mean our work matters now more than ever.
You know. I like to say we've perhaps had a
little bit of a wind in our sales and around
you know, in diversity and inclusion. Over the last few years,
that's changing.
Speaker 3 (17:38):
But we're at least at pivotal going to continue to
highlight the inequities that exist across various industries, tech, finance, government,
the political spirit, et cetera.
Speaker 2 (17:52):
And get the capital to those that are performing.
Speaker 3 (17:56):
Right, Like I always say, like I'm not investing in
people that are in funds and in companies that are
that we don't underwrite and believe have an opportunity to
deliver you know, great results back to us and to
the other investors. And so, you know, I think in
the midst of these external challenges, you really have to
come back to, like I said, less of the heartstrings
(18:19):
and more the economic case, right, Like so much of
the discourse has turned to you know, anti this, anti that.
Speaker 2 (18:26):
Well, let's be pro who's who's not pro economic growth?
Speaker 3 (18:29):
Like the pie like me me or a black founder
or a woman leader. Getting an investment does not mean
that there's less for someone else. I think this is
going to create more opportunity for everyone.
Speaker 2 (18:42):
And so I come back to like, those types.
Speaker 3 (18:44):
Of arguments are the ones that I think we need
to be be making and more of the asset framing
versus the deficit framing, right, like like take it out
of the negative and have people see, you know, the
real expansiveness of the opportunity when you center you know,
diversity and inclusion in the work that you're doing. There's
been a ton of research Mackenzie and others that have
(19:05):
put out, you know, that show this, more diverse teams,
companies you know, perform better, have better results over time,
and we're holding back our GDP. If the gender gap
were narrowed, it would be like tens of trillions of dollars,
so it would be flowing in the economy, right, And
so I just encourage all of us to lean on
(19:29):
those stats and let that you know, sort of continue
to animate our work and just do the work right,
like find these great companies, these great fund managers, get
them the support that they need so that they can
build and be excellent. And we're committed to continuing to
do that at Pivotal Ventures.
Speaker 1 (19:49):
Is this other quote I found where you said the
care economy, the need to create a modern caregiving system
that supports families of all types. That's where innovation starts.
We need to get more women to these technology roles,
into STEM, into education, so they can be founders of
tomorrow and the leaders in these tech businesses. So my
question is is two, it's two part. I hate to
(20:09):
ask two part questions, but this is yeah, okay.
Speaker 4 (20:11):
Yeah, I know you can handle it.
Speaker 1 (20:12):
So you've described as you know, you said, the care
economy is foundational to innovation and societal progress. So that's
one question, how is it foundational too, you know, innovation
and to side of progress. And then two, what systemic
changes do you believe are necessary to most urgently modernize
you know, our caregiving ecosystem and the opportunities for women.
Speaker 3 (20:35):
Yeah, yeah, I'd say so the first part of the question.
You know, we we need to we need to make
life easier for caregivers in our countries. So to do that,
we need, you know, a more diverse set of entrepreneurs
and investors, like building sustainable business models that deliver these solutions.
Speaker 2 (20:58):
Instead. I saw recently we look at a lot of
mini stats, but a.
Speaker 5 (21:02):
Lot of the barriers, a lot of the barriers that
hold women back from reaching leadership positions, you know, starting businesses,
leadership positions in their companies, and caregiving is one of
the biggest ones.
Speaker 2 (21:16):
Right.
Speaker 3 (21:17):
So women spend an average of about twenty two hours
per week on unpaid care work. Men spend about fourteen,
So that delta is huge, right, And I think part
of what we're.
Speaker 2 (21:28):
Trying to solve for is.
Speaker 3 (21:31):
Again getting more of these innovation and ideas to unlock
that potential so that women and men too write can
spend more time. I mean that unpaid care work is
so important and so foundational, but there are ways that
we can make that less burdensome in some ways so
that women and men too write can go out and
(21:53):
fully participate in our you know, in the economic sphere.
Speaker 2 (21:57):
Right, So that's why it's foundational.
Speaker 3 (22:00):
The second part of our question will around like what
is it going to take too, you know, kind of spectemically, yeah,
to like drive this change, you know, part of it.
And this is what I really think is powerful about
our approach at Pivotal is we apply multiple levers to
advancing to advanced social progress in women's power investing is
(22:24):
one and a key one, but we also leverage philanthropy.
Speaker 2 (22:27):
We also leverage policy and advocacy work.
Speaker 3 (22:30):
And innovation investing is essential to create a more modern
caregiving system. We also need good policy around that too,
and so so I view that as like the key
a key unlock. You can have all the best ideas
and fund them, but if the government is not stepping
(22:52):
in to support that at the state, you know, local.
Speaker 2 (22:55):
Federal levels, at all levels.
Speaker 3 (22:58):
I mean, one example of this is some work we
done it Pivotal over the years to advance paid leave.
Speaker 2 (23:02):
The United States is the only.
Speaker 3 (23:05):
Advanced economy in the world that does not have paid
leave for caregivers.
Speaker 2 (23:12):
And we got very close. We've gotten very close multiple times.
Speaker 3 (23:15):
But I view policies like that, you know, the government
has to step in at a certain point and make
this a priority, these issues of priority to allow that innovation.
And then philanthropy too, addressing some of the market failures
that exists. So all three, and that's that's I think
what's incredibly powerful about how we show up at Pivotal
is that we're tackling these big and tractable, like systemic
(23:38):
problems with all the tools in our toolbox.
Speaker 1 (23:41):
Yeah, and while technology has the potential to address some
of these gaps, you've recognized that it's not a standalone solution,
you know. So I think about AI, So how do
you how you envision AI working alongside policy changes or
you know, entrepreneurs, How does AI accelerate that progress?
Speaker 4 (24:05):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (24:06):
AI is foundational. It's table stakes.
Speaker 3 (24:08):
Now. I often joke and I'll say if I go
into a meeting or an event and I don't talk
about it AI, as I mentioned, I'm sort of like, well,
what's going on? But we need to ensure that we're
not that we're building it and leveraging it, using it responsibly,
and not perpetuating the same biases and issues it exists currently.
(24:31):
Right Like, to me, that's that would be a terrible
outcome as if we're sitting here having this conversation in two, five, ten,
twenty years and we're we've taken AI and put it
in a place you know, that's that's that's creating more
harm than good.
Speaker 2 (24:50):
So that's where policy matters, I think again.
Speaker 3 (24:53):
And you know, look, I'm not saying you don't you
want to you don't want to overregulate. You want to
make sure that there's space for innovation. But you have
to strike that balance I think with with AI to
to get to the to the spot where we where
we need to be to make sure that we're not
again just running back the same, the same old playbook.
(25:13):
But I get really excited about what you know, AI
can do specifically in the caregiving and kind of healthcare space,
just to advance research patient care.
Speaker 2 (25:23):
You know, we see AI and the care economy intersecting
a ton.
Speaker 3 (25:28):
Is you're as you're looking at that again kind of infrastructure, Uh,
that's needed to modernize and automate the caregiving and kind
of healthcare system.
Speaker 2 (25:38):
You know, AI can can be a huge part of that.
Speaker 3 (25:41):
So I mentioned summer Health earlier, one of our portfolio companies.
You know, they've been redesigning kind of their care operating
system to integrate you know, AI more into that platform,
to improve kind of efficiency patient interface AI use cases,
so sort of you know, different ways that they can
(26:01):
build AI into the product. And they're doing that sort
of from from day one. So it's hugely exciting, right,
and it'll make it probably a better user experience, more efficient,
and we're seeing you know, that's just one example, but
I think you know, one of many in our portfolio
and just you know, more generally we're seeing across the
tech landscape.
Speaker 1 (26:20):
Yeah, you mentioned you know AI. At this point, it's
table stakes and for people like this is that means
it's got to be there. It's obvious, Like that's just
you're just doing the bare minimum almost. Yeah, and so
for that because it's so quickly table stakes, because most
of us to last eighteen months are just getting aware
of user facing AI, you know, CHATCHYPT like.
Speaker 2 (26:42):
Now chat Gypt, I do you know. I'm like, I
put everything in a chat a year ago, I was like,
what is chatgy?
Speaker 1 (26:50):
So with I mean, I still I still talk to
people every day who are not using which is baffling
to me. I'm like, I could say anybody four hours
out of their day just by using this stuff. But
I think about because so many people are still so
far behind. I mean, you and I we may live
in a bubble in some respects, Like we talk about
this stuff all the time, but how do we You
talked about policy, and I want you to go deeper
(27:11):
on this is how do we make sure that as
we integrate AI and other technologies into caregiving, how do
we not introduce new inequalities?
Speaker 3 (27:22):
Yeah, no, I mean it's it's it's the well you
don't ask what keeps me up at night? But that's
sort of it in your question, right, it's it's it's
things of that nature, right, you know, how we're taking
and using tech and innovation that leaves people in populations, individuals,
(27:43):
communities behind.
Speaker 2 (27:46):
That's unacceptable.
Speaker 3 (27:48):
We do not want that as an as an outcome,
and so I think to address it, you know a
lot of it. And again in the work that we
do it at Pivotal, it's it's that education. It's figuring
out how to get these tools two more people on
the way in a way that they.
Speaker 2 (28:05):
Can build trust and build knowledge around how to around
how to how.
Speaker 3 (28:09):
To use it, because like you said, AI should just
not be for those of us that are you know,
the tech elite that sit in you know, New York
and San Francisco, a c or whatever your your your
big city and and kind of are already inclined to
use this stuff. So again I think it has to
go back to how we're setting this up, you in
(28:31):
for kids, right, like my kids are you know, the
stuff is like showing up in elementary school and like
how they're how they're using it, and so you know,
I think for for them and making sure that those
systems are you know, sort of fairly being set up,
uh that they would opportunity to learn and ask questions early,
(28:51):
but that there's opportunities in the in a community based
way for for others to to start to gain more
facility and understanding of how these things work.
Speaker 2 (29:01):
Because yeah, a bad outcome. Another bad outcome is.
Speaker 3 (29:04):
You know, you build kind of like the tools I
was describing with some of our portfolio companies at Leveraging
AI and then you have users again, it it becomes
a not a ninety nine percent solution, it's a one percent.
Speaker 2 (29:15):
Solution, right if we're not bringing everyone along.
Speaker 3 (29:17):
So we need to make sure that that education is there,
that opportunity is there to really leverage it from from
the beginning.
Speaker 1 (29:27):
Yeah, you talked earlier, which it struck me because I'm
very interested in this. You said, you know, care also
includes things you put in your body, you know, so
we're having a growing conversation.
Speaker 4 (29:37):
About the foods we eat, the et cetera.
Speaker 1 (29:40):
All these things, and you know, what are some other
overlooked or you can go you can double down on that,
what are some overlooked opportunities within the.
Speaker 4 (29:48):
Care space that you believe could.
Speaker 1 (29:51):
Also drive significant societal and economic impact for that matter, Yeah.
Speaker 3 (29:57):
I wouldn't necessarily well, maybe over but yeah, I don't
know if i'd say overlooked, but I think maybe under
or appreciated or complex perhaps the way to describe it.
You know, childcare is tough, uh.
Speaker 2 (30:11):
I think it's tough for tech and venture sort of
scale ability. I haven't lost.
Speaker 3 (30:18):
Faith or I'm still searching, hoping to find solutions to
sort of crack that that that nut, so to speak,
because of anything. You know that those early years, right
are again also foundational. You know, women stepping out of
the workforce to care for their for their kids or
family members. Again very important work, but there there there
(30:41):
has to be we have to find a way. And
this is again where policy could come into to tap
it on and unlock that. So so I think childcare
is tricky, but I still view it as a complex,
but I still view it as an opportunity. Yeah, I
think these acute kind of caregiving moments or spaces also
represent a big or complex but represent an opportunity. Maternal
(31:07):
health kind of that both pre and postpartum phase we
have in this country some of the worst maternal health outcomes,
particularly for black women, right, And so there's a there's
a huge gap and care there that that I think
we need to figure out how to solve in that
women's health and kind of care space to menopause. Right, Like,
(31:28):
I've been astounded as I've read and spent more time
with some companies building in this space, just how underfunded,
how under research. You know, people just doctors just brush
pasts like women who are really you know, struggling, right
is they as they move through that phase of life
and it has impacts on your eble to maybe work
(31:49):
or travel or take on as much responsibility when you're
going through that.
Speaker 2 (31:53):
So that, as I.
Speaker 3 (31:54):
Mentioned, dementia care kind of into life another kind of
acute moment mental health as well. So the those would
be a couple that I call out that again not
necessarily overlooked, but I think complex and I represent a
huge opportunity for more innovation.
Speaker 1 (32:11):
Finally, one more quote from you, because there's a lot
of them. I'm like, these are really good. There's one
you said, instead of a demoralizing story about stalled progress,
we can and should tell a story about the women
of color across an industry.
Speaker 4 (32:27):
Who have pushed ahead.
Speaker 1 (32:28):
And so my question there is about framing and how
important is framing when we have issues You know, but
the storytelling you how you tell the story matters. But
the numbers are still the numbers. But how important is
the framing of that story?
Speaker 2 (32:45):
The framing is is the key. That's it.
Speaker 3 (32:50):
You said it will and that quote you referenced in
that piece part of what you know. In partner with
some of our fund managers that were highlighted, and they're
including Maria Rivera and Lulu Venture's Promise Fela and at
Groveoria Capital.
Speaker 2 (33:07):
You know, they are just excellent investors, operators.
Speaker 3 (33:11):
You know, Miriam was early at Google, She's been in
the game for a very long time, has built a
tremendous track record. And yes she's Afro Latina, but she's
just a badass investor, right. And part of it is
less of oh, we're helping them, oh they like No,
let's just talk about why they win and how they're good.
(33:33):
And that's where the storytelling and the framing matters. And
it's about the asset, not the deficit. That's what I
come back to, and I don't I'm kind of over
the let's just write a story about women of color being.
Speaker 2 (33:47):
Women of you know, because they're women of color.
Speaker 3 (33:48):
It's like, no, you should have a woman of color
on every story in every list because they're excellent and
they're great investors, or they're great founders and they're doing
something innovative, indifferent And the other thing I put to
is like, if you can't see it, you can't be
it right. So that representation, getting those examples out there
(34:09):
is so important, and it matters about the you know
who whose stories we tell, and so it's something that
I spend.
Speaker 2 (34:17):
A lot of time thinking about.
Speaker 3 (34:19):
Our team works really hard to make sure that our partners,
these fund managers and founders are being seen not just
because they're women, but because they're great investors who are
women too.
Speaker 1 (34:34):
Black Tech Green Money is a production of Blavity, Afro Tech,
The Black Effect Podcast, Networking Night Hire Media. It's produced
by Morgan Debaun and me Well Lucas, with the additional
production support by Kate McDonald and Jada McGee.
Speaker 4 (34:46):
Special thank you to Michael.
Speaker 1 (34:48):
Davis and Lovebeach. Learn more about my Guess Other Tech.
This show is an innovators at afrotech dot Com. Video
version this episode will drop to Black Tech Green Money
on YouTube, So tap it in enjoy your Black Tech
Green Money, Shout us Somebody go get your money, peace
and love.
Host
Will Lucas
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