September 23, 2025 • 36 mins
Ep. 234 Maya Elious is Founder and CEO of Built to Impact, a coaching and consulting company that helps high-achieving entrepreneurs clarify their message, elevate their offers, and scale with integrity.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
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(00:45):
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green money will lucas here. It is so good to
be back with you, guys. I have an exciting episode
one I'm very much looking forward to because I get
to talk about one of my favorite subjects, and that
(01:07):
is brand positioning and all those things and intermingled with technology.
As you guys know, that's one of the things that
we're talking about most these days, is how to position
yourself in this new world, create opportunities for yourself and more.
And with that, there's there's not many people you can
talk to you better than the guests I have today
by Elos, who's CEO and brand strategists at Built Impact.
(01:29):
She helps entrepreneurs just like you, just like you listening
on your way to work, elevate your message, upgrade offers,
refine your business model so you can finally run a
business from a place of alignment, integrity, and depth. Welcome Maya.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
Thank you so much for having me. I'm excited to
be here.
Speaker 1 (01:47):
Absolutely, it's good to have you. So I want to
kick this off. You know you often say you know
you're trying to help entrepreneurs stop shrinking into outdated brands
and ways of positioning themselves. What are some of the
personal signs for you that it was trying to reinvent
your own brand, and how did you make peace with that,
you know, to be able to also help other people
(02:09):
do the same.
Speaker 2 (02:11):
Yeah, I mean I think you know, I've recognized that
I've outgrown my brand when I don't feel excited about
the things that I'm selling anymore, or I don't feel
like I'm making impact. So anytime before I make a pivot,
I'm looking at three different areas. Am I making money?
Am I making an impact? And am I creating joy
(02:32):
within myself? And all three of those things matter because obviously,
as a business, I have to be making money. And
I think money can sometimes be a taboo topic, but
your business cannot run without money. That is the fuel source,
you know, for your business. So it has to be
making money, and more importantly, it has to be profitable.
It has to be making enough money that it can
actually continue running. And then the second thing, if you're
(02:56):
somebody who's purpose driven like I am, it has to
be impactful. It actually has to be making a difference
in somebody's you know, life, business, revenue, finances, relationship, whatever
your niche is going to be. But for me, I
want to know that the work that I'm doing and
the money that I'm making is a result of making
somebody else's life better. And then lastly, it has to
(03:16):
be something that's enjoyable for me. It's something that brings
me fulfillment. It's something that adds to my you know,
existing joy, my existing piece, my existing fulfillment. So those
are the three things that I look at when I
get to a place where I'm not as profitable, I'm
not impacting as many people. I don't feel the same
level fulfillment that I might have felt in previous seasons.
(03:37):
That's when I start to take a look at is
this a season that I need to pivot? Am I
only staying in this season or selling these products and
services because that's what used to work for me in
the past, because I feel loyal to, you know, the
clients and customers that served me back in twenty nineteen,
Or is it now time for me to really evolve?
Speaker 1 (03:58):
Yes, I have a question there. So let's let's put
the profitability to decide. Because I talk to a lot
of entrepreneurs and one of those two things, making money
or impact, they can often have confusing effects on entrepreneurs.
And here's what I mean. They can be making money,
but not love the work that they're doing and not
(04:19):
feel like they're making an impact. And that's one challenge.
And some are making an impact and love the work
they're doing, but they are making no money. So what
happens when you run to when you when you have
these conversations with Hey, I'm making money, but but I
ain't really making I don't find joy anymore. How do
you have those tough conversations because I'm making money or
(04:41):
I really love the work.
Speaker 2 (04:44):
Right right? Yeah, honestly, you know it's hard to hear,
especially for people who are who really have you know,
that good heart, that gracious heart. You know, I work
with a lot of believers, a lot of women of faith,
and you know the number one thing is I really
just want to serve people. The money is honestly the
most important thing. Like the more money you have, the
(05:04):
more options you have to actually then now do the
things that you enjoy doing. So if you are making
good money but you no longer feel fulfillment, my thought
process is you keep running that product or service, but
then you just delegate it or you figure out it
maybe a business that I want to sell or whatever.
You don't just let the money go and you throw
it away and then you go on to something that's
(05:26):
not as profitable, but it's so joyful and fulfilling. So
I'm not saying to trade your piece for money. It's
not something that should be causing you to be you know,
burnt out or sick or anything like that. But if
it's making you good money, consider other ways that you
can make that pivot. Can I now delegate this to
(05:47):
a team and then I start implementing another offer, you know,
that's enjoyable to me. So that's where I would start.
If people are making good money but they're no longer fulfilled,
then there's the people who are like, well, I'm not
making that much money, but I just love what I do.
And I'm like, it's only so long you're going to
be able to do this. Because we live in a
(06:08):
capitalistic society. You're going to have to fund the thing
that you enjoy doing. So your fund requires some funding,
and you better figure out a way to be able
to monetize that.
Speaker 1 (06:22):
So what happens for what happens when evolution is thrust
to point you it's not just necessarily I'm choosing to
do something different or I feel a desire to do
something different, but when the market is saying you need
to do something different, Like I was having this conversation
earlier today actually with a friend who was providing a service,
and I'm like, they wanted to scale, they wanted to grow.
(06:43):
They didn't want to own a job, they wanted to
own a business, and I'm like, you know, part of
the conversation was finding your unique value proposition. What do
you uniquely bring to the marketplace that you can leverage
And what happens when what you were once unique at
you are no longer unique and the market is saying
you've got to evolve.
Speaker 2 (07:05):
Right, then you've got to evolve because you really don't
want to be the blockbuster, right Or it's like, okay,
blockbuster was the prominent thing in the nineties. It's like okay,
Friday night, we're going to the movies. We're renting a movie,
a video game, whatever it is. If the market is evolving,
if we're now going to streaming, you don't just get
to say I once was the best in this. If
(07:27):
you your goal has to be wanting to be one
of the best in your industry, and being the best
requires evolution. Like even if we look at Amazon. You know,
Amazon started out selling books. Imagine if Amazon was only
still selling books, they would have you know, been obsolete
or just nowhere near where they are right now. So
I think if your primary goal is to remain relevant
(07:50):
and to continue impacting people, continue serving people at the
level in which evolution is requiring, Like people and consumers
are requiring a different level of entertainment, They're requiring a
different level of being served, and so you have to
figure out a way to meet that evolution. You just
(08:10):
got to figure it out. I think that's that's that's
the answer when it comes to entrepreneurship. You got to
figure it out or else you're gonna stay stuck with excuses.
You know.
Speaker 1 (08:19):
I love the conversation around alignment in meaning. And there
are people who are high performers, they are high achievers,
and they have a desire to grow, but there's also
there's also, you know, a desire to potentially do something
else because either the market is telling them to do
(08:40):
something or they're internally saying, yeah, I'm growing, but I'm
growing in the wrong vertical. They're potentially in that likely
in that you know switch, they're gonna confuse their audience
they're gonna potentially lose a little bit of, you know,
revenue in the interim. Potentially, How do you those types
(09:01):
of things when you're trying to get people to see
you differently and you're trying to offer something differently, but
now you're switching up the conversation we was having.
Speaker 2 (09:08):
Right This is really where personal branding comes into play,
because I do think there is that hesitation and that
fear of if I pivot, if I do something different,
I'm going to lose my audience and I'm going to
lose revenue. And every single time that I've made a pivot,
I always had this fear and the acceptance that, Okay,
I'm going to lose some people and I'm not going
to make as much money. But I have found that
(09:29):
for the majority of the time, at least eighty percent
of the time I've made a pivot, I made just
as much or even more money because of the personal
brand that I've built. And so when you're building a
personal brand, people aren't tied to the product or tied
to the person. And it doesn't mean that everybody in
my audience is going to need what I have next,
but they're still supporting me whether they're referring me, and
(09:51):
so as you're making these pivots, part of building your
personal brand is knowing how to invite people on your
journey and knowing how to tell stories. People are tied
to your overall mission. So if you explain to people like, hey,
I did this in one season, I'm feeling led, I'm
feeling called to move into a different season. I'd appreciate
your support. I'm excited that you guys are on this
(10:11):
journey with me. I think at the end of the day,
a lot of people want to feel like they're part
of something bigger. So when people get to be part
of your journey and they see that you are elevating,
they want to say, oh, I was part of that evolution,
like I you know, I have clients that are like,
I knew Maya back when she was creating graphics. I
knew Maya back when her business was this name. I've
been following Maya since the periscope days. And so people
(10:34):
like to be part of that evolution. So the pivot
in the transition is so much more seamless when you
are building a brand and you're not just building something
that's solely based on a product.
Speaker 1 (10:46):
Talk about the shifts happening in the marketplace. You know,
there was a time when digital products you gotta be
selling some visual and then it was like you gotta
be coaching people, you gotta start a class, and then
now you got to do a mastermind and like, so
talk to me about the shifts you've recognized and what
works and what works for who.
Speaker 2 (11:08):
Yeah, I mean, I've done it all. I've sold pretty
much anything that could make money on the Internet. I
feel like I've sold it. The master classes, the paid workshops,
the masterminds, the group coaching, the one on one coaching,
all of the things, and I think they're all still relevant.
But one of the biggest shifts that I see happening
right now is, you know, back in twenty twelve, that's
(11:30):
when I started blogging, and I think blogging was something
that was still fairly new. I think showing up online
and being vulnerable with something that was still seemed as
brave and there was, you know, just a lot less
a noise out there than there is today. And so
whereas in twenty twelve, twenty fifteen, twenty eighteen, twenty nineteen,
(11:52):
showing up and giving value was like, oh my gosh,
I love following this coach, so I love her courses
or I love her coaching was something that was a
big deal. Now in twenty twenty five, it's a standard
to actually be valuable, and so it's no longer a
you know, it's no longer selling point to say like, oh,
I give free game. It's like, well you should, because
(12:12):
everybody else is going to free game. Now. What I
find is happening with consumers online is that they want
education and value, but they also want to be entertained.
We are now really using social media as escapism. We're
going on there and we want to be inspired, we
want to laugh, We're trying to escape just our real lives.
(12:34):
And so when we log on, we don't need more
reminders of why we're not good at what we do.
We don't need more reminders of how far away we
are from the mark of the life that we want
to live. And so you'll see a little bit of
that on the education side. But we simply, ironically, we're
looking for connection, even though I do find that, you know,
being in the digital space can make us more disconnected.
(12:55):
But people are they're looking to be entertained, they want
to escape the reality of what they're doing dealing with,
and they want to feel connected to the people that
they're talking to. So just simply being an expert isn't
enough anymore. You have to know how to be an
expert that knows how to captivate an audience and build
trust through storytelling and entertainment.
Speaker 1 (13:16):
What mindset blocks or narratives around wealth keep entrepreneurs from
stepping into the next level.
Speaker 2 (13:28):
I think there are a couple things I'll say from
the perspective of the clients that I work with. I
work with again, a lot of believers, a lot of
women of faith, and I think that some of the
things I hold us back is this fear of being greedy,
this fear of seeming like, oh, I'm only doing it
for money, and sometimes after mine, entrepreneurs like starting a
(13:51):
business for money is also noble. Knowing how to put
food on the table is a noble thing, Like you
don't need to have this deep, purposeful, meaningful thing to
start a business. I personally like to run businesses where
I feel a sense of purpose in the work that
I'm doing. But it's also purposeful to be able to
pay your bills, and so I think I think, you know,
(14:13):
we overthink, you know the wealth building journey and money,
and you know, does am I allowed to love money?
Does God want me to have money? Am I gonna whatever?
And I'm like, the more you have, the more you
have to give. Like the amount of generosity that I'm
able to have is because of the amount of money
that I can have. And I think it's also important
(14:33):
to know that money makes you more of who you
already are. I think people think that money is going
to change them. It just it elevates who you already are.
So as a generous person, when I make more money,
I give more money. As somebody who likes to go
on vacations, when I make more money, I go on
more vacations. As somebody who likes to spend time with
her family, when I have more money, I have more
(14:56):
like freedom to spend time with my family. And so
I think it's very important to understand what your values
are and then understand as I build my wealth, the
more I get to live my values. The less money
you have, the more likely that money is your god,
because you're making decisions based on your lack versus based
on the options that you have to actually honor your values.
(15:19):
So I think that is really important when it comes
to wealth. So I would say that's the first thing
when it comes to wealth. The second thing is I
think we assume that wealth, depending on who we're following,
can only come from one place, like I got to
invest in stocks, or I got to invest in real estate,
or I got to do day trading, or I gotta
do whatever. And wealth is really simply about one becoming
(15:42):
as profitable as possible and then taking your profits and
figuring out different investment routes. If you want to do
real estate, cool, If you want to do stocks, cool,
you want to do day trade and cool, you want
to purchase other companies and own them cool. But you
have to first become profitable and then figure out how
do I want to reinvest my profits into things that
(16:03):
are going to make me money?
Speaker 1 (16:05):
All Right? So that was part A in this podcast,
because there was I've been setting up every question for
this next question because I need to have a foundation
because I want you to talk about opportunity. And there's
a quote I found from you that I'm like, Okay,
that's I need her to talk more about this, where
you said, if one person pays me for something, then
I can get more people to pay me for it.
(16:27):
And so talk just say more about that, Just say
more about that.
Speaker 2 (16:33):
You know, I started having that thought process and mindset
early on in business. And I don't know for anybody
watching if you feel like when you were younger, you
just had so much more boldness and so much more courage.
And even when I first started out, you know, creating
my space pages, creating club flyers and graphics for people,
I'm like, wow, somebody's going to pay me for this.
There has to be more people who are going to
(16:54):
pay me for this. And you know, when clients ask
about what's my pricing strategy, I jokingly say like, I'm
going to keep selling if people keep buying, and I'm
going to keep increasing my prices if people keep buying.
And so, if one person is going to buy a website,
why wouldn't there be more people? If one person sees
enough value in what I'm putting out that they will
(17:15):
hire me for coaching, why wouldn't more people? And so
I'm a science person. My friend laughs at me because
he's always like, you say, everything is a sign, and
I'm like, well, everything is a sign for me. So
my collar on the ground, it's more dollars this week.
There's more clients out there. So I just have an
abundant mindset and a belief that if there's one, then
(17:38):
there's more. If that's what I desire.
Speaker 1 (17:41):
I love that because you know, I was having this
conversation earlier, the same conversation I was having earlier, and
they were talking about trying to figure out what their
product was, like what is the thing to sell? And
the way I think about this is like, what is
the question people most frequently ask you? That's probably something
(18:01):
that they are telling you your brand can solve this
thing for them. Can you elaborate more on for people
who you know they're feeling the need to evolve where
they're maybe it's not even evolution, but they're trying to
find the thing in the marketplace, how else would you
assist them in finding where they can you know, provide
values to the marketplace.
Speaker 2 (18:20):
Yeah, that's a great question. I do think people need
to get better at just assessing opportunities. The first question
that I asked my questions is what do you believe
you're the absolute best at? Because if you can figure
out what that thing is, you show up with a
higher level of confidence, and then you're also not going
to downplay yourself and then under charge, because that's the
(18:42):
big thing that I work on with my clients. Why
are you undercharging if you've been in this industry for
eight years, twelve years, fifteen years. So really the first
thing is what do you think that you do better
than ninety five percent of the rest of the world.
For me, that's going to be messaging and positioning. I
know how to see an expert and then refine their
story and find the right words to position them as
(19:04):
the best in their industry. So I think first figuring
out what are you the best at? What skill sets
do you have, What information do you have? What knowledge
do you have that you're like, I know this like
the back of my hand. If you're trying to figure
it out. One way to figure it out is as
you're scrolling on social media and you see other people
in your industry kind of talking about the same things,
and you're like, she didn't even say that right, or
(19:25):
this is so basic, I could have said that better,
or I can't believe people are paying her for this.
If that little hater inside of you is really just
you projecting because you should have been the one using
your voice. You should have been the one teaching this
information because you know that you could actually do it better.
So that's an indication that that's an industry that you
know really well. Then the second thing is really understanding
(19:46):
what are people seeking, what problems do people have, and
what solutions are they seeking that I am qualified to provide.
So I know if there's a group of women who
they are experts, maybe they've been in corporate or at
their nine to five for a while, and they're like,
I want to get into consulting, I want to start coaching.
(20:09):
I want to get on the education side, but I
don't know how to get clients. I don't believe anybody's
going to pay me. I know for sure I could
have a sixty minute conversation with them and completely want
transform their mindset into why they need to charge more
and give them a breakdown on how they could, you know,
launch their own coaching program. So you have to understand
what am I the best at and who has a
(20:29):
problem that is actively seeking a solution that I have
the skill sets to provide for.
Speaker 1 (20:35):
So how do you set up once? Okay, I know
I want to do you know something. You know, they
want to be a podcaster. You know they went from
a corporate executive and so you know, I need to
use my voice more. I'm going to go start a podcast.
I was in corporate and now I need to talk
about corporate life. How how do what's the first steps
(20:55):
to make when they are doing something completely new but
they have been prepared for it, and like you just
say like, hey, you've been doing this for a years,
why are you under charging? You've been doing it for aears?
You got something to say? All potentially you got something
to say. What's the first steps to making efforts towards
that reinvented itself?
Speaker 2 (21:15):
Yeah? Well, I mean I might be taking this question literally,
but when people say like, oh, I want to be
a podcast or I want to be a content creator,
I look at it like being a podcaster is not
a real thing. Podcasting is a form of marketing. Being
creating content is a form of marketing. Being an influencer,
(21:35):
it's a form of marketing. It's influence marketing. So my
first thing is when people are like, oh, I want
to be a content creator, what I hear people saying
is like, I want to get paid to be myself
and then it's like, Okay, I fully believe you can
get paid to be yourself. Right, I've done it, I've
seen clients do it. We see it every single day.
But we have to also consider what is it uniquely
(21:58):
about myself that is going to build a community or
build an audience. My assumption is if you want to
be a podcaster that you want brands to pay you,
maybe you want some sponsorships. To do that. To work
with brands and get sponsorships, you have to study the market.
You have to do market research, which is I think
a step that a lot of people want to skip.
(22:19):
They want to get a mic, they want to get
a y'all are research and lighting bikes all baby. You
can make a podcast going like this if you can
build an audience, but you have to build an audience
and you have to get intimate with your audience, ask
them questions, understand what some of their desires are, and
then that is what you sell to the brands that
you're working with. You got to go to a brand
(22:41):
and say I have fifty thousand listeners seventy six percent
of them or stay at home moms that are interested
in buying XYZ this is what they spend money on.
You got to know that. Now, if you want to
be a podcaster or whatever it is that you're wanting
to start, and your primary thing is not to work
with brands, you have to know what am I even selling?
Regardless if you want to work with brands or directly
(23:02):
with consumers, you have to know what am I selling
and how does it add value to the person that
I want to sell to. So selling with brands, brands
are buying access to people. So if you ain't got people,
you're not getting money from brands. They're buying access to you.
Being a good storyteller, you can't tell good stories that
they're not buying from you. Consumers are buying an outcome.
They're buying results. So if you don't have a physical product,
(23:25):
a digital product, a service that can get them an outcome,
you're not going to generate sales. So you first have
to figure out how can I add value to the
person that I want to sell to.
Speaker 1 (23:37):
There's another quote I found from you where you said
people were investing in pretty design but didn't know how
to communicate the value of a business, And it made
me think about how we've all seen it you know
people who the business looks beautiful, but I don't know
what value they provide. There's no like compelling case for
(24:00):
me to get engaged. Can you talk about some of
the most common things we do that over index on
how pretty something is versus how effective it is.
Speaker 2 (24:11):
M Yeah, we definitely over index what our website looks like,
you know, the fonts, the colors, the photoshoots. We over
index what does our Instagram feed look like? What do
I look like to the rest of the world. I
think the visuals are important, but the visuals are complementary
(24:32):
to the foundation of your message, and so when you
make the visuals the foundation, you completely miss the point
because the visuals are supposed to support the overall message,
the mission, the purpose of your business. So love the visuals.
I just think we can't overthink having a beautiful website.
We can't think over having beautiful pictures if there's not
(24:53):
a message that goes with it. And I do find
that people they'll invest thousands of dollars in a website
and be like, I spent all this money on a
web designer and my business didn't grow, And I'm like, well,
how did you think your business was going to grow,
and we believe this lie that if we build it,
they will come. No, they won't. You got to build it,
and then you got to market it, and then maybe
(25:15):
they will come if you did a good job with marketing.
Speaker 1 (25:17):
So what we talk about visuals and the challenge though,
like these days, because of Snapchat and TikTok, like people
just opening their phone and they just going live. They
just talk into the camera. And I remember a friend
of mine, Nikki nick this girl she go by this
is Nicki Nicky Saunders saying, you know, these days you
have to treat social like face time and you're just talking.
(25:42):
You just having a conversation. And when Instagram first came out,
it was like how pretty can you make this picture?
The filters mattered and all these things. But when Snapchat came,
it's like it was just real life and we just
talking to the thing and to the question of like
the visuals, how important the visuals and how beautiful something is.
There's a balance there between what worked and what works now.
(26:05):
And I don't know if there's a question there, but
I just want you to talk about that.
Speaker 2 (26:09):
Yeah, I think you know, back then when we had
all of the filters because even with Snapchat, it was
kind of like you get to be more real. But
we were on there with filters. Okay, we have that dog,
you know, like we wanted our nose to be skinny.
Skin was food. So there was still definitely something to
the visuals. And still there is something to visuals, but
it's we want to feel like people are authentically pretty,
(26:32):
not they forced themselves into being beautiful, right, So just
as humans, as people, we like to look at things
that are esthetically pleasing, but we also don't like to
feel like we're being marketed to or like the thing
that we're looking at fake. So you have to be
able to, you know, find that balance. But yeah, I
mean to Nikki's point, sometimes just going on and just
(26:54):
acting like you're on a FaceTime call. We I think
as the markets have been more saturated, consumers are becoming
more discerning into what's real and to what's fake, and
so we are leaning more towards what's real, which is
typically going to be the things that are not overly produced.
(27:15):
And so if you look at pages that have like
the perfect templates and the perfect fonts and the colors,
and it looks marketing. The pages that are like, oh,
I'm throwing up this quote because it's reliable and it's
on black and white text. It's like the black and
white text is going to be shared more because they're
relating to it based off the relatability, not because it's
(27:36):
being marketed to them. And I do think consumers are
getting a little bit exhausted at being marketed to and
they want to be connected. I don't think that they're
tired of buying. I think they're tired of being marketed too,
if that makes sense, because we're still buying every single day.
Like I'd be on these influencers page commenting shop every day,
(27:57):
and then Amazon affiliate page. I'm buying, y'all can get
the affiliate. I'm not mad at that, but I just
don't like to feel like I'm marketed too constantly.
Speaker 1 (28:06):
You know, this, this idea you talked about of like
podcasters has been percolating, and it makes me think about
the reinvention and how do you know if you're reinventing
strategically versus you're reacting to pressure or trends.
Speaker 2 (28:25):
That's good. I think it could be a combination of both.
I think sometimes we can take too long to reinvent
and then you are hit with the pressure and it's
like you didn't need to have to face this pressure,
but you just took too long. But I do think
that some people are reinventing too trends like oh, she's
a coach now, I want to be a coach now
where people are talking about she's launching a product about AI,
(28:47):
so I shall launch a product about AI. I think
it still has to go down to what do you
do really well? How can you take you know, how
the market is evolving and still make it applicable to
what your actual skills are and what your audience needs
and what your audience is looking for. So it does
come down to you know, quote unquote being authentic, which
I know is an overused word, but it's accurate every
(29:09):
time like this, it's like you don't even use AI.
Why are you now dropping a course on how to
use AI? Like make it applicable to what is actually
true for you?
Speaker 1 (29:20):
So what right now? And I want you to go
a level deeper in this because we talked about like,
you know, the different models, you know, coaching versus massimizing,
et cetera. What is profitable? Like what have you seen
work for entrepreneurs who are trying to figure out evolve,
Like is it coaching, is it you know, high ticket
events or membership models? Like what is working today?
Speaker 2 (29:43):
Mm hmm, I mean it all works today. I think
I typically start my clients off with high ticket because
it's instantly the most profitable. And I just think when
you're especially when you're new to your to build it
an audience online, trying to start low ticket, trying to
start membership, It's like, why play yourself. You have this
(30:05):
one hundred dollars per month membership. Let's say you even
get you know, thirty people in there. I mean, what
is three thousand dollars a month when you're a grown
adult with a mortgage or rent. It's just not enough
for the work that's required. So typically I start my
clients off with high ticket. I do think that membership's work.
I do think subscription model is something that's very popular.
(30:27):
I do think consumers are starting to get annoyed by it,
but it's what we're buying into. It's like, okay, now
we got Netflix and Hulu and Disney Plus and all
of the things, but subscription model is what we're seeing works.
You know, we see it with Patreon, we see it
with only fans, we see it with all of the things. Heck,
I even got a door Dash subscription. It's like, why
am I paying annually to get food delivered to my house? Like?
(30:49):
Am I that greedy? But we are paying for the subscriptions,
So subscriptions definitely work. I think it's it's more profitable
once you've built a community. So I think start with
high ticket, build your personal brand, build a community, and
then you can start telling low ticket digital products. Membership
or subscription model. All of it works if you have
(31:11):
the strategy and you have the people. With high ticket,
you don't need as many people, but you do need
the level of expertise, and you do need to be
able to deliver on that value.
Speaker 1 (31:22):
A couple more. You know, what reinvention moves have you
done or seen that you would advise not to do
again or wouldn't do again yourself?
Speaker 2 (31:34):
Ooh, that I wouldn't advise doing. I think the reason
I wouldn't advise doing is just based on where somebody
is in their business. So you know, again, I tell
my clients typically I would like for y'all to start
off with high ticket. I'm usually yelling at my clients
and saying, please sell something at least with a comma
in it, like please out. I like that, and so
(31:59):
my client. I remember one of my clients a few
weeks ago, she came to me and she, I don't know,
she went to charge like four hundred dollars or something,
and I think she paid me close to ten thousand
dollars to work with me. I'm like, why give me
ten thousand dollars to sell something for four hundred dollars.
It just doesn't make any sense. So she eventually, I
think she raised her price to one thousand dollars and
she had a launch. She had ten people by it,
(32:20):
and she's like, I'm really glad that you know you
called me out like that, because one I got the
ROI and two I just deserve it, Like once you
put in the work, you realize I really should have
been charging more. So. I think the reinvention move that
really sets people up for the l is when they
reinvented to something that's not profitable. You're just reinventing into burnout.
(32:40):
You're doing all of this work, but you're not being
fairly compensated from it. And I just find it so
ironic that you know, typically people are wanting to leave
their nine to five or they want to leave corporate
because they feel undervalued, they feel underpaid, they feel underappreciated,
and then they go build a business recreating the same
thing that they were trying to escape from. You went
(33:01):
out and you undercharge, You're now underpaid, and you're working
with people who don't value you because you didn't build
a brand or a standard that required people to value you.
So I think reinventing into something that's not profitable is
the biggest setup for an.
Speaker 1 (33:18):
L Finally, because how much of reinvention is strategy? Because
we can talk about, Okay, I did research and this
thing is working, this thing is working for other people.
I have expertise there, et cetera, et cetera, cetera. How
much of it is strategy versus instinct and something like
(33:40):
inner knowing, like I know this is what I'm supposed
to be doing.
Speaker 2 (33:45):
Oh, that's a good question. It's kind of hard to say, like, Okay,
it's forty percent instinct sixty percent strategy. I think it's
more of a step by step process. It's like the
first step is the instinct, and I think what a
lot of us have an opportunity to do better with
(34:06):
is trusting our gut the first time around. And I
truly believe that a lot of us are struggling to
trust our gut and trust our inner voice, your intuition,
your holy spirit, whatever it is, because there's so much
noise online that we're starting to now bow down to
the voices of what everybody else is saying we need
to be doing online. We're looking at everybody else and
(34:26):
we don't take the time to just sit and meditate
on what am I supposed to be doing next. So
I don't know if I would say it's a percentage thing,
but I would say the first step is knowing how
to hear your own voice. Hear it first, but then
obey it. You hear it, and then you distrust it.
You go back and forth with yourself, and then you
find yourself eight months later, nine months later, a year
(34:48):
later in the same place because the voice that told
you that you need to be doing the thing, you
decided to ignore it and then watch everybody else succeed.
And then now you're sitting around like, man, I should
have done that. That person stole my and I'm like
Why did you create space for somebody else to steal
your idea? That is your fault, that is your responsibility.
So the first step is truly honoring your voice, knowing
(35:11):
how to hear it, trusting it the first time around,
and following through with it, then saying, Okay, now what's
the strategy so I can execute what my voice told
me to do.
Speaker 1 (35:23):
Afrotech Conference is back and return to Acetown, Houston, Texas,
from October twenty seventh through thirty first, twenty twenty five
the George R. Brown Convention Center. For years, Afrotech has
been to go to experience for black tech innovators, founders, engineers, creators, investors.
The twenty twenty five is shaping up to be the
biggest year yet, though with forty thou attendees expected. This
(35:44):
year's conference will feature five days of dynamic programming across
six curator stages discovery to executive leadership. Join us to
hear from industry leaders at the forefront of change, learn
from top ten engineers and designers, and connect with recruiters
from nearly two hundred companies. This year digging deeper into
what's next with tracks exploring AI and machine learning, MAD
(36:04):
tech and health equity, cybersecurity, climate tech, and much more.
Whether you're mounting your first startup, pivoting into a new road,
or scaling as an execu, it's something here for you.
Tickets and moving fast to keep your spot nowt at
Afrotech Conference dot com. Black Tech Green Money is a
production of Blavity Afro Tech on the Black Effect podcast
Networking Night Hire Media, and it's produced by Morgan, Debaonne
(36:26):
and me Well Lucas, with additional production support by Kate McDonald,
Sarah Ergan and Jada McGee. Special thank you to Michael
Davis and Lovebeach. Learn more about my guess and other tech.
This shot is an innovator's at afrotech dot com. The
video version of this episode will drop to Black Tech
Green Money on YouTube, So tap in enjoy your Black
Tech Green Money shits to somebody go get your money.
(36:48):
Peace and love
Afrotech Conference is back and return to AIDS Town, Houston, Texas,
from October twenty seven through thirty first, twenty twenty five
at the George R. Brown Convention Center. For years, Afrotech
has been to go to experience for black tech innovators, founders, engineers,
creators and investors. In twenty twenty five is shaping up
to be the biggest year yet, though with fortyzery to
(00:20):
ten hees expected. This year's conference will feature five days
of dynamic programming across six curator stages, from discovery to
executive leadership. Join us to hear from industry leaders at
the forefront of change, learn from top ten engineers and designers,
and connect with recruiters from nearly two hundred companies. This year,
we're digging deeper into what's next with tracks exploring AI
and machine learning, med tech and health equity, cybersecurity, climate tech,
(00:45):
and much more. Whether you're launching your first startup, pivoting
into a new role, or scaling as an execut there's
something here for you. Tickets are moving fast to keep
your spot nowt at Afrotech Conference. Dot com Black tech,
green money will lucas here. It is so good to
be back with you, guys. I have an exciting episode
one I'm very much looking forward to because I get
to talk about one of my favorite subjects, and that
(01:07):
is brand positioning and all those things and intermingled with technology.
As you guys know, that's one of the things that
we're talking about most these days, is how to position
yourself in this new world, create opportunities for yourself and more.
And with that, there's there's not many people you can
talk to you better than the guests I have today
by Elos, who's CEO and brand strategists at Built Impact.
(01:29):
She helps entrepreneurs just like you, just like you listening
on your way to work, elevate your message, upgrade offers,
refine your business model so you can finally run a
business from a place of alignment, integrity, and depth. Welcome Maya.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
Thank you so much for having me. I'm excited to
be here.
Speaker 1 (01:47):
Absolutely, it's good to have you. So I want to
kick this off. You know you often say you know
you're trying to help entrepreneurs stop shrinking into outdated brands
and ways of positioning themselves. What are some of the
personal signs for you that it was trying to reinvent
your own brand, and how did you make peace with that,
you know, to be able to also help other people
(02:09):
do the same.
Speaker 2 (02:11):
Yeah, I mean I think you know, I've recognized that
I've outgrown my brand when I don't feel excited about
the things that I'm selling anymore, or I don't feel
like I'm making impact. So anytime before I make a pivot,
I'm looking at three different areas. Am I making money?
Am I making an impact? And am I creating joy
(02:32):
within myself? And all three of those things matter because obviously,
as a business, I have to be making money. And
I think money can sometimes be a taboo topic, but
your business cannot run without money. That is the fuel source,
you know, for your business. So it has to be
making money, and more importantly, it has to be profitable.
It has to be making enough money that it can
actually continue running. And then the second thing, if you're
(02:56):
somebody who's purpose driven like I am, it has to
be impactful. It actually has to be making a difference
in somebody's you know, life, business, revenue, finances, relationship, whatever
your niche is going to be. But for me, I
want to know that the work that I'm doing and
the money that I'm making is a result of making
somebody else's life better. And then lastly, it has to
(03:16):
be something that's enjoyable for me. It's something that brings
me fulfillment. It's something that adds to my you know,
existing joy, my existing piece, my existing fulfillment. So those
are the three things that I look at when I
get to a place where I'm not as profitable, I'm
not impacting as many people. I don't feel the same
level fulfillment that I might have felt in previous seasons.
(03:37):
That's when I start to take a look at is
this a season that I need to pivot? Am I
only staying in this season or selling these products and
services because that's what used to work for me in
the past, because I feel loyal to, you know, the
clients and customers that served me back in twenty nineteen,
Or is it now time for me to really evolve?
Speaker 1 (03:58):
Yes, I have a question there. So let's let's put
the profitability to decide. Because I talk to a lot
of entrepreneurs and one of those two things, making money
or impact, they can often have confusing effects on entrepreneurs.
And here's what I mean. They can be making money,
but not love the work that they're doing and not
(04:19):
feel like they're making an impact. And that's one challenge.
And some are making an impact and love the work
they're doing, but they are making no money. So what
happens when you run to when you when you have
these conversations with Hey, I'm making money, but but I
ain't really making I don't find joy anymore. How do
you have those tough conversations because I'm making money or
(04:41):
I really love the work.
Speaker 2 (04:44):
Right right? Yeah, honestly, you know it's hard to hear,
especially for people who are who really have you know,
that good heart, that gracious heart. You know, I work
with a lot of believers, a lot of women of faith,
and you know the number one thing is I really
just want to serve people. The money is honestly the
most important thing. Like the more money you have, the
(05:04):
more options you have to actually then now do the
things that you enjoy doing. So if you are making
good money but you no longer feel fulfillment, my thought
process is you keep running that product or service, but
then you just delegate it or you figure out it
maybe a business that I want to sell or whatever.
You don't just let the money go and you throw
it away and then you go on to something that's
(05:26):
not as profitable, but it's so joyful and fulfilling. So
I'm not saying to trade your piece for money. It's
not something that should be causing you to be you know,
burnt out or sick or anything like that. But if
it's making you good money, consider other ways that you
can make that pivot. Can I now delegate this to
(05:47):
a team and then I start implementing another offer, you know,
that's enjoyable to me. So that's where I would start.
If people are making good money but they're no longer fulfilled,
then there's the people who are like, well, I'm not
making that much money, but I just love what I do.
And I'm like, it's only so long you're going to
be able to do this. Because we live in a
(06:08):
capitalistic society. You're going to have to fund the thing
that you enjoy doing. So your fund requires some funding,
and you better figure out a way to be able
to monetize that.
Speaker 1 (06:22):
So what happens for what happens when evolution is thrust
to point you it's not just necessarily I'm choosing to
do something different or I feel a desire to do
something different, but when the market is saying you need
to do something different, Like I was having this conversation
earlier today actually with a friend who was providing a service,
and I'm like, they wanted to scale, they wanted to grow.
(06:43):
They didn't want to own a job, they wanted to
own a business, and I'm like, you know, part of
the conversation was finding your unique value proposition. What do
you uniquely bring to the marketplace that you can leverage
And what happens when what you were once unique at
you are no longer unique and the market is saying
you've got to evolve.
Speaker 2 (07:05):
Right, then you've got to evolve because you really don't
want to be the blockbuster, right Or it's like, okay,
blockbuster was the prominent thing in the nineties. It's like okay,
Friday night, we're going to the movies. We're renting a movie,
a video game, whatever it is. If the market is evolving,
if we're now going to streaming, you don't just get
to say I once was the best in this. If
(07:27):
you your goal has to be wanting to be one
of the best in your industry, and being the best
requires evolution. Like even if we look at Amazon. You know,
Amazon started out selling books. Imagine if Amazon was only
still selling books, they would have you know, been obsolete
or just nowhere near where they are right now. So
I think if your primary goal is to remain relevant
(07:50):
and to continue impacting people, continue serving people at the
level in which evolution is requiring, Like people and consumers
are requiring a different level of entertainment, They're requiring a
different level of being served, and so you have to
figure out a way to meet that evolution. You just
(08:10):
got to figure it out. I think that's that's that's
the answer when it comes to entrepreneurship. You got to
figure it out or else you're gonna stay stuck with excuses.
You know.
Speaker 1 (08:19):
I love the conversation around alignment in meaning. And there
are people who are high performers, they are high achievers,
and they have a desire to grow, but there's also
there's also, you know, a desire to potentially do something
else because either the market is telling them to do
(08:40):
something or they're internally saying, yeah, I'm growing, but I'm
growing in the wrong vertical. They're potentially in that likely
in that you know switch, they're gonna confuse their audience
they're gonna potentially lose a little bit of, you know,
revenue in the interim. Potentially, How do you those types
(09:01):
of things when you're trying to get people to see
you differently and you're trying to offer something differently, but
now you're switching up the conversation we was having.
Speaker 2 (09:08):
Right This is really where personal branding comes into play,
because I do think there is that hesitation and that
fear of if I pivot, if I do something different,
I'm going to lose my audience and I'm going to
lose revenue. And every single time that I've made a pivot,
I always had this fear and the acceptance that, Okay,
I'm going to lose some people and I'm not going
to make as much money. But I have found that
(09:29):
for the majority of the time, at least eighty percent
of the time I've made a pivot, I made just
as much or even more money because of the personal
brand that I've built. And so when you're building a
personal brand, people aren't tied to the product or tied
to the person. And it doesn't mean that everybody in
my audience is going to need what I have next,
but they're still supporting me whether they're referring me, and
(09:51):
so as you're making these pivots, part of building your
personal brand is knowing how to invite people on your
journey and knowing how to tell stories. People are tied
to your overall mission. So if you explain to people like, hey,
I did this in one season, I'm feeling led, I'm
feeling called to move into a different season. I'd appreciate
your support. I'm excited that you guys are on this
(10:11):
journey with me. I think at the end of the day,
a lot of people want to feel like they're part
of something bigger. So when people get to be part
of your journey and they see that you are elevating,
they want to say, oh, I was part of that evolution,
like I you know, I have clients that are like,
I knew Maya back when she was creating graphics. I
knew Maya back when her business was this name. I've
been following Maya since the periscope days. And so people
(10:34):
like to be part of that evolution. So the pivot
in the transition is so much more seamless when you
are building a brand and you're not just building something
that's solely based on a product.
Speaker 1 (10:46):
Talk about the shifts happening in the marketplace. You know,
there was a time when digital products you gotta be
selling some visual and then it was like you gotta
be coaching people, you gotta start a class, and then
now you got to do a mastermind and like, so
talk to me about the shifts you've recognized and what
works and what works for who.
Speaker 2 (11:08):
Yeah, I mean, I've done it all. I've sold pretty
much anything that could make money on the Internet. I
feel like I've sold it. The master classes, the paid workshops,
the masterminds, the group coaching, the one on one coaching,
all of the things, and I think they're all still relevant.
But one of the biggest shifts that I see happening
right now is, you know, back in twenty twelve, that's
(11:30):
when I started blogging, and I think blogging was something
that was still fairly new. I think showing up online
and being vulnerable with something that was still seemed as
brave and there was, you know, just a lot less
a noise out there than there is today. And so
whereas in twenty twelve, twenty fifteen, twenty eighteen, twenty nineteen,
(11:52):
showing up and giving value was like, oh my gosh,
I love following this coach, so I love her courses
or I love her coaching was something that was a
big deal. Now in twenty twenty five, it's a standard
to actually be valuable, and so it's no longer a
you know, it's no longer selling point to say like, oh,
I give free game. It's like, well you should, because
(12:12):
everybody else is going to free game. Now. What I
find is happening with consumers online is that they want
education and value, but they also want to be entertained.
We are now really using social media as escapism. We're
going on there and we want to be inspired, we
want to laugh, We're trying to escape just our real lives.
(12:34):
And so when we log on, we don't need more
reminders of why we're not good at what we do.
We don't need more reminders of how far away we
are from the mark of the life that we want
to live. And so you'll see a little bit of
that on the education side. But we simply, ironically, we're
looking for connection, even though I do find that, you know,
being in the digital space can make us more disconnected.
(12:55):
But people are they're looking to be entertained, they want
to escape the reality of what they're doing dealing with,
and they want to feel connected to the people that
they're talking to. So just simply being an expert isn't
enough anymore. You have to know how to be an
expert that knows how to captivate an audience and build
trust through storytelling and entertainment.
Speaker 1 (13:16):
What mindset blocks or narratives around wealth keep entrepreneurs from
stepping into the next level.
Speaker 2 (13:28):
I think there are a couple things I'll say from
the perspective of the clients that I work with. I
work with again, a lot of believers, a lot of
women of faith, and I think that some of the
things I hold us back is this fear of being greedy,
this fear of seeming like, oh, I'm only doing it
for money, and sometimes after mine, entrepreneurs like starting a
(13:51):
business for money is also noble. Knowing how to put
food on the table is a noble thing, Like you
don't need to have this deep, purposeful, meaningful thing to
start a business. I personally like to run businesses where
I feel a sense of purpose in the work that
I'm doing. But it's also purposeful to be able to
pay your bills, and so I think I think, you know,
(14:13):
we overthink, you know the wealth building journey and money,
and you know, does am I allowed to love money?
Does God want me to have money? Am I gonna whatever?
And I'm like, the more you have, the more you
have to give. Like the amount of generosity that I'm
able to have is because of the amount of money
that I can have. And I think it's also important
(14:33):
to know that money makes you more of who you
already are. I think people think that money is going
to change them. It just it elevates who you already are.
So as a generous person, when I make more money,
I give more money. As somebody who likes to go
on vacations, when I make more money, I go on
more vacations. As somebody who likes to spend time with
her family, when I have more money, I have more
(14:56):
like freedom to spend time with my family. And so
I think it's very important to understand what your values
are and then understand as I build my wealth, the
more I get to live my values. The less money
you have, the more likely that money is your god,
because you're making decisions based on your lack versus based
on the options that you have to actually honor your values.
(15:19):
So I think that is really important when it comes
to wealth. So I would say that's the first thing
when it comes to wealth. The second thing is I
think we assume that wealth, depending on who we're following,
can only come from one place, like I got to
invest in stocks, or I got to invest in real estate,
or I got to do day trading, or I gotta
do whatever. And wealth is really simply about one becoming
(15:42):
as profitable as possible and then taking your profits and
figuring out different investment routes. If you want to do
real estate, cool, If you want to do stocks, cool,
you want to do day trade and cool, you want
to purchase other companies and own them cool. But you
have to first become profitable and then figure out how
do I want to reinvest my profits into things that
(16:03):
are going to make me money?
Speaker 1 (16:05):
All Right? So that was part A in this podcast,
because there was I've been setting up every question for
this next question because I need to have a foundation
because I want you to talk about opportunity. And there's
a quote I found from you that I'm like, Okay,
that's I need her to talk more about this, where
you said, if one person pays me for something, then
I can get more people to pay me for it.
(16:27):
And so talk just say more about that, Just say
more about that.
Speaker 2 (16:33):
You know, I started having that thought process and mindset
early on in business. And I don't know for anybody
watching if you feel like when you were younger, you
just had so much more boldness and so much more courage.
And even when I first started out, you know, creating
my space pages, creating club flyers and graphics for people,
I'm like, wow, somebody's going to pay me for this.
There has to be more people who are going to
(16:54):
pay me for this. And you know, when clients ask
about what's my pricing strategy, I jokingly say like, I'm
going to keep selling if people keep buying, and I'm
going to keep increasing my prices if people keep buying.
And so, if one person is going to buy a website,
why wouldn't there be more people? If one person sees
enough value in what I'm putting out that they will
(17:15):
hire me for coaching, why wouldn't more people? And so
I'm a science person. My friend laughs at me because
he's always like, you say, everything is a sign, and
I'm like, well, everything is a sign for me. So
my collar on the ground, it's more dollars this week.
There's more clients out there. So I just have an
abundant mindset and a belief that if there's one, then
(17:38):
there's more. If that's what I desire.
Speaker 1 (17:41):
I love that because you know, I was having this
conversation earlier, the same conversation I was having earlier, and
they were talking about trying to figure out what their
product was, like what is the thing to sell? And
the way I think about this is like, what is
the question people most frequently ask you? That's probably something
(18:01):
that they are telling you your brand can solve this
thing for them. Can you elaborate more on for people
who you know they're feeling the need to evolve where
they're maybe it's not even evolution, but they're trying to
find the thing in the marketplace, how else would you
assist them in finding where they can you know, provide
values to the marketplace.
Speaker 2 (18:20):
Yeah, that's a great question. I do think people need
to get better at just assessing opportunities. The first question
that I asked my questions is what do you believe
you're the absolute best at? Because if you can figure
out what that thing is, you show up with a
higher level of confidence, and then you're also not going
to downplay yourself and then under charge, because that's the
(18:42):
big thing that I work on with my clients. Why
are you undercharging if you've been in this industry for
eight years, twelve years, fifteen years. So really the first
thing is what do you think that you do better
than ninety five percent of the rest of the world.
For me, that's going to be messaging and positioning. I
know how to see an expert and then refine their
story and find the right words to position them as
(19:04):
the best in their industry. So I think first figuring
out what are you the best at? What skill sets
do you have, What information do you have? What knowledge
do you have that you're like, I know this like
the back of my hand. If you're trying to figure
it out. One way to figure it out is as
you're scrolling on social media and you see other people
in your industry kind of talking about the same things,
and you're like, she didn't even say that right, or
(19:25):
this is so basic, I could have said that better,
or I can't believe people are paying her for this.
If that little hater inside of you is really just
you projecting because you should have been the one using
your voice. You should have been the one teaching this
information because you know that you could actually do it better.
So that's an indication that that's an industry that you
know really well. Then the second thing is really understanding
(19:46):
what are people seeking, what problems do people have, and
what solutions are they seeking that I am qualified to provide.
So I know if there's a group of women who
they are experts, maybe they've been in corporate or at
their nine to five for a while, and they're like,
I want to get into consulting, I want to start coaching.
(20:09):
I want to get on the education side, but I
don't know how to get clients. I don't believe anybody's
going to pay me. I know for sure I could
have a sixty minute conversation with them and completely want
transform their mindset into why they need to charge more
and give them a breakdown on how they could, you know,
launch their own coaching program. So you have to understand
what am I the best at and who has a
(20:29):
problem that is actively seeking a solution that I have
the skill sets to provide for.
Speaker 1 (20:35):
So how do you set up once? Okay, I know
I want to do you know something. You know, they
want to be a podcaster. You know they went from
a corporate executive and so you know, I need to
use my voice more. I'm going to go start a podcast.
I was in corporate and now I need to talk
about corporate life. How how do what's the first steps
(20:55):
to make when they are doing something completely new but
they have been prepared for it, and like you just
say like, hey, you've been doing this for a years,
why are you under charging? You've been doing it for aears?
You got something to say? All potentially you got something
to say. What's the first steps to making efforts towards
that reinvented itself?
Speaker 2 (21:15):
Yeah? Well, I mean I might be taking this question literally,
but when people say like, oh, I want to be
a podcast or I want to be a content creator,
I look at it like being a podcaster is not
a real thing. Podcasting is a form of marketing. Being
creating content is a form of marketing. Being an influencer,
(21:35):
it's a form of marketing. It's influence marketing. So my
first thing is when people are like, oh, I want
to be a content creator, what I hear people saying
is like, I want to get paid to be myself
and then it's like, Okay, I fully believe you can
get paid to be yourself. Right, I've done it, I've
seen clients do it. We see it every single day.
But we have to also consider what is it uniquely
(21:58):
about myself that is going to build a community or
build an audience. My assumption is if you want to
be a podcaster that you want brands to pay you,
maybe you want some sponsorships. To do that. To work
with brands and get sponsorships, you have to study the market.
You have to do market research, which is I think
a step that a lot of people want to skip.
(22:19):
They want to get a mic, they want to get
a y'all are research and lighting bikes all baby. You
can make a podcast going like this if you can
build an audience, but you have to build an audience
and you have to get intimate with your audience, ask
them questions, understand what some of their desires are, and
then that is what you sell to the brands that
you're working with. You got to go to a brand
(22:41):
and say I have fifty thousand listeners seventy six percent
of them or stay at home moms that are interested
in buying XYZ this is what they spend money on.
You got to know that. Now, if you want to
be a podcaster or whatever it is that you're wanting
to start, and your primary thing is not to work
with brands, you have to know what am I even selling?
Regardless if you want to work with brands or directly
(23:02):
with consumers, you have to know what am I selling
and how does it add value to the person that
I want to sell to. So selling with brands, brands
are buying access to people. So if you ain't got people,
you're not getting money from brands. They're buying access to you.
Being a good storyteller, you can't tell good stories that
they're not buying from you. Consumers are buying an outcome.
They're buying results. So if you don't have a physical product,
(23:25):
a digital product, a service that can get them an outcome,
you're not going to generate sales. So you first have
to figure out how can I add value to the
person that I want to sell to.
Speaker 1 (23:37):
There's another quote I found from you where you said
people were investing in pretty design but didn't know how
to communicate the value of a business, And it made
me think about how we've all seen it you know
people who the business looks beautiful, but I don't know
what value they provide. There's no like compelling case for
(24:00):
me to get engaged. Can you talk about some of
the most common things we do that over index on
how pretty something is versus how effective it is.
Speaker 2 (24:11):
M Yeah, we definitely over index what our website looks like,
you know, the fonts, the colors, the photoshoots. We over
index what does our Instagram feed look like? What do
I look like to the rest of the world. I
think the visuals are important, but the visuals are complementary
(24:32):
to the foundation of your message, and so when you
make the visuals the foundation, you completely miss the point
because the visuals are supposed to support the overall message,
the mission, the purpose of your business. So love the visuals.
I just think we can't overthink having a beautiful website.
We can't think over having beautiful pictures if there's not
(24:53):
a message that goes with it. And I do find
that people they'll invest thousands of dollars in a website
and be like, I spent all this money on a
web designer and my business didn't grow, And I'm like, well,
how did you think your business was going to grow,
and we believe this lie that if we build it,
they will come. No, they won't. You got to build it,
and then you got to market it, and then maybe
(25:15):
they will come if you did a good job with marketing.
Speaker 1 (25:17):
So what we talk about visuals and the challenge though,
like these days, because of Snapchat and TikTok, like people
just opening their phone and they just going live. They
just talk into the camera. And I remember a friend
of mine, Nikki nick this girl she go by this
is Nicki Nicky Saunders saying, you know, these days you
have to treat social like face time and you're just talking.
(25:42):
You just having a conversation. And when Instagram first came out,
it was like how pretty can you make this picture?
The filters mattered and all these things. But when Snapchat came,
it's like it was just real life and we just
talking to the thing and to the question of like
the visuals, how important the visuals and how beautiful something is.
There's a balance there between what worked and what works now.
(26:05):
And I don't know if there's a question there, but
I just want you to talk about that.
Speaker 2 (26:09):
Yeah, I think you know, back then when we had
all of the filters because even with Snapchat, it was
kind of like you get to be more real. But
we were on there with filters. Okay, we have that dog,
you know, like we wanted our nose to be skinny.
Skin was food. So there was still definitely something to
the visuals. And still there is something to visuals, but
it's we want to feel like people are authentically pretty,
(26:32):
not they forced themselves into being beautiful, right, So just
as humans, as people, we like to look at things
that are esthetically pleasing, but we also don't like to
feel like we're being marketed to or like the thing
that we're looking at fake. So you have to be
able to, you know, find that balance. But yeah, I
mean to Nikki's point, sometimes just going on and just
(26:54):
acting like you're on a FaceTime call. We I think
as the markets have been more saturated, consumers are becoming
more discerning into what's real and to what's fake, and
so we are leaning more towards what's real, which is
typically going to be the things that are not overly produced.
(27:15):
And so if you look at pages that have like
the perfect templates and the perfect fonts and the colors,
and it looks marketing. The pages that are like, oh,
I'm throwing up this quote because it's reliable and it's
on black and white text. It's like the black and
white text is going to be shared more because they're
relating to it based off the relatability, not because it's
(27:36):
being marketed to them. And I do think consumers are
getting a little bit exhausted at being marketed to and
they want to be connected. I don't think that they're
tired of buying. I think they're tired of being marketed too,
if that makes sense, because we're still buying every single day.
Like I'd be on these influencers page commenting shop every day,
(27:57):
and then Amazon affiliate page. I'm buying, y'all can get
the affiliate. I'm not mad at that, but I just
don't like to feel like I'm marketed too constantly.
Speaker 1 (28:06):
You know, this, this idea you talked about of like
podcasters has been percolating, and it makes me think about
the reinvention and how do you know if you're reinventing
strategically versus you're reacting to pressure or trends.
Speaker 2 (28:25):
That's good. I think it could be a combination of both.
I think sometimes we can take too long to reinvent
and then you are hit with the pressure and it's
like you didn't need to have to face this pressure,
but you just took too long. But I do think
that some people are reinventing too trends like oh, she's
a coach now, I want to be a coach now
where people are talking about she's launching a product about AI,
(28:47):
so I shall launch a product about AI. I think
it still has to go down to what do you
do really well? How can you take you know, how
the market is evolving and still make it applicable to
what your actual skills are and what your audience needs
and what your audience is looking for. So it does
come down to you know, quote unquote being authentic, which
I know is an overused word, but it's accurate every
(29:09):
time like this, it's like you don't even use AI.
Why are you now dropping a course on how to
use AI? Like make it applicable to what is actually
true for you?
Speaker 1 (29:20):
So what right now? And I want you to go
a level deeper in this because we talked about like,
you know, the different models, you know, coaching versus massimizing,
et cetera. What is profitable? Like what have you seen
work for entrepreneurs who are trying to figure out evolve,
Like is it coaching, is it you know, high ticket
events or membership models? Like what is working today?
Speaker 2 (29:43):
Mm hmm, I mean it all works today. I think
I typically start my clients off with high ticket because
it's instantly the most profitable. And I just think when
you're especially when you're new to your to build it
an audience online, trying to start low ticket, trying to
start membership, It's like, why play yourself. You have this
(30:05):
one hundred dollars per month membership. Let's say you even
get you know, thirty people in there. I mean, what
is three thousand dollars a month when you're a grown
adult with a mortgage or rent. It's just not enough
for the work that's required. So typically I start my
clients off with high ticket. I do think that membership's work.
I do think subscription model is something that's very popular.
(30:27):
I do think consumers are starting to get annoyed by it,
but it's what we're buying into. It's like, okay, now
we got Netflix and Hulu and Disney Plus and all
of the things, but subscription model is what we're seeing works.
You know, we see it with Patreon, we see it
with only fans, we see it with all of the things. Heck,
I even got a door Dash subscription. It's like, why
am I paying annually to get food delivered to my house? Like?
(30:49):
Am I that greedy? But we are paying for the subscriptions,
So subscriptions definitely work. I think it's it's more profitable
once you've built a community. So I think start with
high ticket, build your personal brand, build a community, and
then you can start telling low ticket digital products. Membership
or subscription model. All of it works if you have
(31:11):
the strategy and you have the people. With high ticket,
you don't need as many people, but you do need
the level of expertise, and you do need to be
able to deliver on that value.
Speaker 1 (31:22):
A couple more. You know, what reinvention moves have you
done or seen that you would advise not to do
again or wouldn't do again yourself?
Speaker 2 (31:34):
Ooh, that I wouldn't advise doing. I think the reason
I wouldn't advise doing is just based on where somebody
is in their business. So you know, again, I tell
my clients typically I would like for y'all to start
off with high ticket. I'm usually yelling at my clients
and saying, please sell something at least with a comma
in it, like please out. I like that, and so
(31:59):
my client. I remember one of my clients a few
weeks ago, she came to me and she, I don't know,
she went to charge like four hundred dollars or something,
and I think she paid me close to ten thousand
dollars to work with me. I'm like, why give me
ten thousand dollars to sell something for four hundred dollars.
It just doesn't make any sense. So she eventually, I
think she raised her price to one thousand dollars and
she had a launch. She had ten people by it,
(32:20):
and she's like, I'm really glad that you know you
called me out like that, because one I got the
ROI and two I just deserve it, Like once you
put in the work, you realize I really should have
been charging more. So. I think the reinvention move that
really sets people up for the l is when they
reinvented to something that's not profitable. You're just reinventing into burnout.
(32:40):
You're doing all of this work, but you're not being
fairly compensated from it. And I just find it so
ironic that you know, typically people are wanting to leave
their nine to five or they want to leave corporate
because they feel undervalued, they feel underpaid, they feel underappreciated,
and then they go build a business recreating the same
thing that they were trying to escape from. You went
(33:01):
out and you undercharge, You're now underpaid, and you're working
with people who don't value you because you didn't build
a brand or a standard that required people to value you.
So I think reinventing into something that's not profitable is
the biggest setup for an.
Speaker 1 (33:18):
L Finally, because how much of reinvention is strategy? Because
we can talk about, Okay, I did research and this
thing is working, this thing is working for other people.
I have expertise there, et cetera, et cetera, cetera. How
much of it is strategy versus instinct and something like
(33:40):
inner knowing, like I know this is what I'm supposed
to be doing.
Speaker 2 (33:45):
Oh, that's a good question. It's kind of hard to say, like, Okay,
it's forty percent instinct sixty percent strategy. I think it's
more of a step by step process. It's like the
first step is the instinct, and I think what a
lot of us have an opportunity to do better with
(34:06):
is trusting our gut the first time around. And I
truly believe that a lot of us are struggling to
trust our gut and trust our inner voice, your intuition,
your holy spirit, whatever it is, because there's so much
noise online that we're starting to now bow down to
the voices of what everybody else is saying we need
to be doing online. We're looking at everybody else and
(34:26):
we don't take the time to just sit and meditate
on what am I supposed to be doing next. So
I don't know if I would say it's a percentage thing,
but I would say the first step is knowing how
to hear your own voice. Hear it first, but then
obey it. You hear it, and then you distrust it.
You go back and forth with yourself, and then you
find yourself eight months later, nine months later, a year
(34:48):
later in the same place because the voice that told
you that you need to be doing the thing, you
decided to ignore it and then watch everybody else succeed.
And then now you're sitting around like, man, I should
have done that. That person stole my and I'm like
Why did you create space for somebody else to steal
your idea? That is your fault, that is your responsibility.
So the first step is truly honoring your voice, knowing
(35:11):
how to hear it, trusting it the first time around,
and following through with it, then saying, Okay, now what's
the strategy so I can execute what my voice told
me to do.
Speaker 1 (35:23):
Afrotech Conference is back and return to Acetown, Houston, Texas,
from October twenty seventh through thirty first, twenty twenty five
the George R. Brown Convention Center. For years, Afrotech has
been to go to experience for black tech innovators, founders, engineers, creators, investors.
The twenty twenty five is shaping up to be the
biggest year yet, though with forty thou attendees expected. This
(35:44):
year's conference will feature five days of dynamic programming across
six curator stages discovery to executive leadership. Join us to
hear from industry leaders at the forefront of change, learn
from top ten engineers and designers, and connect with recruiters
from nearly two hundred companies. This year digging deeper into
what's next with tracks exploring AI and machine learning, MAD
(36:04):
tech and health equity, cybersecurity, climate tech, and much more.
Whether you're mounting your first startup, pivoting into a new road,
or scaling as an execu, it's something here for you.
Tickets and moving fast to keep your spot nowt at
Afrotech Conference dot com. Black Tech Green Money is a
production of Blavity Afro Tech on the Black Effect podcast
Networking Night Hire Media, and it's produced by Morgan, Debaonne
(36:26):
and me Well Lucas, with additional production support by Kate McDonald,
Sarah Ergan and Jada McGee. Special thank you to Michael
Davis and Lovebeach. Learn more about my guess and other tech.
This shot is an innovator's at afrotech dot com. The
video version of this episode will drop to Black Tech
Green Money on YouTube, So tap in enjoy your Black
Tech Green Money shits to somebody go get your money.
(36:48):
Peace and love
Host
Will Lucas
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