Ep. 236 Ep. Roland Martin is host and managing editor of Roland Martin Unfiltered and founder of the Black Star Network.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
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Dot Com will lucas here.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
Black tech, green money is so good to be with
you guys for another episode. I have a special guest today.
I've been really looking forward to this interview. Roland Martin
is not just a journalist. He's a media entrepreneur, CEO,
and digital pioneer who spent decades building his own lane
in the news industry. He's best known for hosts and
(01:18):
managing editor of Roland Martin Unfiltered and founder of the
black Star Network. He's turned decades of experience in mainstream
media into a powerful independent platform reaching millions daily. Welcome,
mister Martin.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
All right, glad to be here.
Speaker 1 (01:33):
It's a pleasure to have you. So I want to
start talking about your media savvy here, your entrepreneurial savvy.
You know, when you started building your own platforms, what
was the gap that you saw in the marketplace and
how did those gaps inform the strategy for how you
built it?
Speaker 2 (01:53):
Well, first and foremost, if I go back to you
have multiple iterations. So the current one really was when
TV one canceled my show News one Now. And as
Alfred Niggas was telling me why he was canceling the show,
(02:14):
he was he was refinancing the company's debt and need
to make a number of cuts and literally asked he
was talking.
Speaker 3 (02:23):
I was already planning what I was gonna do.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
I saw, I already saw where we were headed in
terms of digital media. And for people have to understand,
I've always been eight to ten years ahead. And because
I'm a student of the business, studying where we were going,
I was studying cord cutting. I was seeing what was
happening with ny Or Television broadcasting cable, as well as
(02:46):
what was happening with ter Restaurant Radio. December twenty thousand, nineteen,
Tom Joyner was retiring and I said that, you know,
Black America is gonna be significantly hurt because we're not
going to have that major presence on the air for
the twenty twenty election. And you know, TV one offered
(03:07):
me a new three year contract that kept the salary
the same with three hundred and.
Speaker 3 (03:10):
Thirty thousand, and I said no.
Speaker 2 (03:13):
And remember my agent at the time, Mark whad say, hey, man,
let's take this deal was easy money. I said, no,
we're not because what I also understood.
Speaker 3 (03:23):
Was this year was that.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
They could easily pay me the twenty seven thousand, five
hundred a month and never do any type of programming.
And I kept saying, well, my concern was if we
don't do any programming, if we don't do anything, because
I had that before when I had Washington Watch, I
hosted the show. There were forty episodes a year, and
then in the contract, I was to do four primetime
(03:47):
specials and I think was paying me ten thousand a special.
So a couple of years we did it, but then
the other two years they just paid me the forty grand.
It was cheaper to pay me the actually do the production,
and so I said no to the deal because that
and that was the gap when I studied what was
happening in radio and to this day, and I don't
(04:09):
care what anybody says, and it's no disrespect to anybody
out there, but if you take what the Breakfast Club does,
Ricky Smiley, Di Ohegley, Steve Harvey, Erica Campbell, you put
all of these shows together, all these syndicated shows, they
do not equal the news and information that we were
(04:30):
getting on a daily basis from the time jour in
the morning show. And so that was what I saw,
what I understood, and then of course what then happens.
People were telling me, man, you should do a podcast. Well,
I people don't realize. I launched the first black news
source audio podcast, the Chicago Defender on two thousand and five.
I launched the first black video podcast in two thousand
(04:53):
and six, Black News Video Podcast two thousand and six
at the Chicago Defender. And so I saw where we were.
I was so taking all those pieces. I said, we
have to do this. And here's what was crazy. YouTube
was funding a lot of stuff, and I reached out.
I was told by the YouTube folks, black news is
not gonna work, Toby, and I went, Okay, I'm gonna
(05:13):
show y'all. It worked. And so here we are today,
going from and when I really focused. I had a
YouTube channel for years, but I really didn't do much
with it because we were prohibited from putting content on
the channel content up because of the TV one cable deal.
So so September August or September twenty seventeen, I had
about seventy two thousand YouTube subscribers. Again, I really did nothing.
(05:37):
We posted some stuff, but I was no focus. When
I launched in on September four, twenty eighteen, we had
one hundred and fifty seven thousand subscribers. And as I
sit here, today, And I look at where we are today.
We're sitting at one point one million, eight hundred and
sixty eight thousand, one hundred and seventy and so, and
(05:57):
we're we're every week we're in the YouTube top one
hundred podcasts and so, and we're the only black news
show in the top one hundred. Everybody else Black is
entertainment of the sport. So YouTube was wrong.
Speaker 3 (06:14):
A bunch of other.
Speaker 2 (06:14):
People were wrong. So the audience was there, they simply
were not being served properly, and that was the lane.
Speaker 1 (06:22):
Yes, that's amazing. So I think about You've mentioned a
couple risks you took there in that story, and it
sounds to me, and I want you to correct me
if I'm wrong, but it sounds to me like you
were more you were more focused. I needed to get
this in front of as many people as possible. And
the ownership might have been secondary, but was ownership forefront?
Speaker 2 (06:40):
No, it was. It was the same They want to
stay on the same level.
Speaker 3 (06:43):
So I understood. Again, I understood, the.
Speaker 2 (06:47):
Audience was there, the money was there, and this is
I mean, this is this was the literal.
Speaker 3 (06:53):
Conversation I have with Mark Watts.
Speaker 2 (06:55):
And again it was. This was June twenty eighteen. We
had met in March twenty eighteen. We had come off
doing the MK fiftieth anniversary of his assassination, and what
was interesting about that I'll never forget. So the show
gets canceled in December December, I think it was December nineth,
twenty seventeen, and so the fiftieth was April fourth, and
(07:19):
we had already shot some stuff, and I was like, Hey,
I'm sending them emails, Hey are we gonna do that,
We're gonna do this, that, We're gonna We're gonna do this,
and we'm gonna do this, and I wasn't getting any feedback.
So I just had it on my own to spend
thirty grand of our own money, and I flew to
Stanford to interview with Clarence Jones, doctor King's attorney. I
went to had a speech in Buffalo, and then I
(07:42):
then went to Ithaca, New York and set out with
Dorothy Cotton. I went to Memphis to meet with Sam
Bill Lucy, and I scheduled all these different interviews and
funded them, funded them myself because I understood the importance
of the stories. But here was the other thing. I
now had that as library content. And so what then
(08:04):
happens is when I'm meeting with them, they're not committing
to covering stuff. So I was like, all right, and
this is what I told Mark Marcus, my fraternity brother.
We go back to when I was in high school senior,
I said to Marcus. I said, Mark, I'm forty nine
years old, I said, and I am at the peak
(08:26):
of this is how I looked at it, the peak
of knowledge, relationships, experience, and energy. And I said, if
I don't do this right now, I don't know. If
I said what about don't do it now, I likely
never will. And I don't know if anybody black who
(08:50):
is who is willing to do this.
Speaker 3 (08:53):
So I have to do this.
Speaker 2 (08:55):
So I understood there was a business there. I understood
that there was an audience there. But the old added,
if you build it, they will come. That it had
to happen. Somebody had to make the decision. So I didn't.
It wasn't about, hey, let's try to go people like man,
I wish you go back to seeing at MSNBC no interest,
because here was a lesson I learned even there.
Speaker 3 (09:18):
And I was at the CNN.
Speaker 2 (09:19):
They couldn't get anybody to interview Winnie Mandela. She was
coming to town at Birmingham, Alabama, so they came to me.
I was like, yeah, sure, So I go to Birmingham
interview winning Mandela had about twenty twenty five minutes. So
a week later, I get a phone call and they go, hey,
this is the people in Atlanta.
Speaker 3 (09:38):
We're looking at the interview.
Speaker 2 (09:39):
Why didn't you ask her about the trial and this
and this? And I said, why the hell y'all interview?
I asked her what I wanted to ask her. I said,
why the hell y'all didn't ask her? They then said,
we're not going to run the interview. I said, okay.
I went to John Klein, it was a president seeing
in you, and went to his office, said, Hey, your
(10:02):
folks in Atlanta ain't gonna run the Winni Mandela interview,
so can you just give it to me, give me privirige,
give it to me, and I'm gonna run it on
my TV one show.
Speaker 3 (10:10):
John's like, yeah, cool.
Speaker 2 (10:12):
I went to when I went to DC, we went
to the CNN bureau. They dubbed the interview over because
it was on this different tape double hand to us.
We ran it on the show and here's the deal.
March twenty eighteen, I'm in Memphis, one month before the assassin,
a commemorational assassination. Winnie Mandela dies and I'm there and
(10:32):
I hit my guy. I said, we're gonna restream it.
I interviewed Reverend Jesse Jackson Senior. I interviewed Randall Randall
Robinson about Winnie Mandela, and we restreamed that. The only
reason you can see my interview with Winnie Mandela was
because I had a black on media platform where I
(10:54):
could air it. And if I didn't have that to
this CNN, that thing will be sitting on a tap
on the shelf at CNN and no one has ever
seen it. And that's the difference when you first of
all own a platform to be able to distribute a message.
Speaker 1 (11:14):
Man, this this is so much there. I want to
dig in. I want to lay a little bit more
foundation first. So all right, you decide I'm going to
do this on my own for the people out there
who are saying, you know.
Speaker 2 (11:24):
No, no, no, no, I no no. I didn't decide
something did it on my own. I went to every
major black media company, wow, and none of it, wanted
to partner. I went to them, I understood the business.
This is this is sort of how I saw. First
of all, you gotta take it back even further. I
(11:45):
had the TV one show I had heard. I was
talking to people that that that that the show was
in jeopardy and I said, okay, so I silly proposal.
And so here's what happened. I was see, this is
why you have to be a student of the business.
So I'm sitting here and I'm like, okay, you know,
how can we re engineer this?
Speaker 3 (12:07):
How can we look at this differently? And so remember
dish Nation.
Speaker 2 (12:10):
I was sitting there and I was watching it, and
this when Ricky Spider was a part of it, and
so it was airing on TV one. But then I
saw dish Nation was online. So I went to our
affiliate person. I said, I got a question for you.
Speaker 3 (12:27):
I'm curious, how is this nation?
Speaker 2 (12:30):
Because I knew that we couldn't stream we had limits
of what we could stream online the eight on TV one.
I said, how are we able to do this? And
they said, oh, we have the cable rights. So you
got cable rights, got broadcast rights, you've got digital rights
and then of course international rights are separate, they said,
(12:51):
but we have the cable rights. That's why it's online.
And I went bingo.
Speaker 3 (12:57):
So this is what I did.
Speaker 2 (12:58):
I put a proposal together and I said, okay, the
problem that we have with news one now is that
it's on TV one. We're not marketing it outside the channel.
We have a loyal audience, but it's too small. And
they they were doing a million in advertising a year.
(13:20):
The show was costing four to five million. So I
said okay, and I knew there was a digital audience.
So the proposal I sent them was, why don't y'all
let me take ownership of the show. I'm gonna make
it a digital show. You can pay me a lot.
So it was costing you five you can pay me
(13:42):
a licensing fee of three point five three or two
point five million. I will produce the show, and we
have a partnership where we're able to sell the digital
sell piece. You already have the infrastructure, and then that
can be a rev share. They never responded to the proposal.
(14:05):
The show gets canceled. When I decided to launch this,
I gave them another proposal, why don't you I got
to Radio one why don't you partner with me with
what I'm launching. I said, you can invest five hundred thousand,
and this is what I'm gonna do. This is what
I'm gonna deliver. We could do a repshure on the advertising,
(14:27):
no interest. I talked to Black Enterprise. I talked to
Rich Dennis over at Essence, I remember Morgan. I had
a conversation at Blavity, I remember, and it was just,
but it was just. And I talked to numerous people
because I understood all of these entities already had the
AD infrastructure, they had the AD infrastructure that back in infrastructure,
(14:50):
and that none of them were even doing what I
was doing. So my own deal was, this is the
value add proposition. You need to be able to sell
more unit and so here's how we can utilie streaming.
Nobody wanted to partner, so I said, okay, I'm gonna
do it, and I went ahead and did it myself.
But I wasn't but I was trying to find a
(15:11):
black media partner and no one wanted to and so
I said, okay, I'm gonna go ahead and do it,
and that's what we did.
Speaker 1 (15:19):
So I've seen you in person and I loved this.
You told this story last time. I saw you at
the University of Toledo doing the talk last year, and
you talked about the bag that you carry with.
Speaker 2 (15:28):
You everywhere you go.
Speaker 1 (15:29):
And then that bag is your age six zoom recorder
or whatever zoom recorder, you have, your cameras and your
et cetera. And there are so many people who still
today believe that they need all this equipment to put
out content. Can you talk about the first of thinking
and then the actual equipment you need.
Speaker 2 (15:50):
Well, again, the problem for so many people is the
problem for so many people is that they don't understand
the infrastructure.
Speaker 3 (16:03):
We're gonna do something.
Speaker 2 (16:04):
Okay, we're gonna do something right here, So just give
me one second, because I need to just give you
one second.
Speaker 3 (16:11):
All right, perfect, all right.
Speaker 2 (16:13):
So you just said, you just asked the question about
in terms of, okay, how we do this thing, how
it's done, and a lot of people don't understand. So
here's a perfect example. Yesterday yesterday I.
Speaker 3 (16:28):
Was I was doing a show.
Speaker 2 (16:31):
I was in Dallas, and it's a golf tournament that
a golf tournament that Nancy Liveran Klein has and so
I was invited to play in it. But here's the
whole deal. I'm doing it, but I'm also on the road.
I'm also you know, traveling, So I'm like, okay, the
golf because we had a storm. Normally I would have
(16:52):
done the show for my hotel room. A storm hit Dallas,
so the golf tournament didn't start at nine, it started
at eleven. I was damn So we ended up happening
was I had to do the show from the course
because I couldn't get We finished at four fifteen. So
as a result, by having what you just described.
Speaker 3 (17:13):
Then this is what that looked like.
Speaker 2 (17:16):
This is the literal setup right here where you see
right there, the four lights, the return monitor, you see,
the live you you see you see right there, and
again golf, the golf course is my back drop you're seeing.
That's the whole.
Speaker 3 (17:35):
Setup right there.
Speaker 2 (17:37):
All of that stuff is in literally a twenty two
inch carry ons and so and because again what you
have to understand is you have to think. You have
to think efficient, you have to think, Okay, it's just me,
and so how can I distill this thing down? How
(17:59):
can I be as small as possible? How can I
be able to do this, and so you'll see right here,
I was in Wisconsin. This is the look in a
hotel room. I carry four LED lights. A lot of
times when you're traveling, the walls are bare. Luckily you
got you got color in this room. Normally sometimes hotel
(18:19):
rooms got white walls. Well guess what I bounced. I
bounced that the I bounced the light off of the wall.
And now all of a sudden, I've given the show color.
And so that's four twenty five LED lights. They fit
in an Amazon eight inch Neil prem bag. Boom right there,
they fit right in. And so again it's it's when
(18:40):
you're when you when you're thinking. I was up about
three weeks ago. I had a keynote speech in Milwaukee.
Uh and the problem was the noon speech. I couldn't
fly out to get back to the studio in time.
So and I did this last year, so this was
the first time. And I said, Okay, drive me to Chicago.
I'm gonna kick a nine pm flight back to d C.
(19:02):
I'll do my show from Chicago or hair airport. Now
somebody's like, hell, yep, you're gonna do the show from
the airport. So this happened so I find you a
spot in the airport. Same setup. So I got portable power,
I got my four lights, I got my camera, I
got my live view, my return minderhites in the corner.
(19:26):
I got my Omni. I got my omni charged. You
see a teleprompter there, you see the live view. You
see my portable power. Because I wasn't trying to run
extension cords all over the place. So when you understand
how the technology works, then you understand how you can move.
And again you're not trying to sit here and uh
(19:49):
be crazy with it. And so I know somebody's sitting
there going, man, you're caring a lot. No, this is
literally it right here. This is one half of the
twin and two inch carry on and this is the
other side of the twin two inch carery on. Everything
that I need to broadcast is in that bag. So
the whole thinking for me is constantly. So let's just
take audio. Well, I used to have the Lively microphone,
(20:12):
the XLR come from the camera. Well guess what DJI
comes up with their wireless microphones. Now I'm wireless. Now
I can plug it straight in. Now I'm not dealing
with frequencies now not running but a cable. Plus that
microphone has like a hundred foot range. My cable can't
do that. So how my brain works, I'm constantly trying
(20:34):
to think of, Okay, how more efficient, how smaller can
you be? And so even as I'm sitting right here,
the reason I'm able to show you what I'm showing,
I have an ATM Mini switcher.
Speaker 3 (20:45):
Well I can.
Speaker 2 (20:47):
Also now this is a little bit more equipment and
so it can't fit in the bag, so I got
to have it through my backpack. But I have another
ATM Minute switcher. So a lot of times when I'm
on the road, I may not have time. I shot
some video I can't uploaded to the to the to
the to drop box and my staff can download it.
But if I have my switcher with me, boom, just
(21:07):
what I just did here, I can play my video
right there from the phone or from my iPad. I
can show the photo. I pull up live tweets on
the show as well, because I'm basically I'm sitting here coordinating.
So when you understand, when you understand technology, and when
you just step back and now it's a question of okay,
just the different pieces. So for me, it's how can
(21:30):
you be small, nimble, efficient, And so that's that same
portable suitcase. It goes wherever I go. But I gave
a speech in Indianapolis on Sunday.
Speaker 3 (21:39):
I was at church.
Speaker 2 (21:40):
I said, Hey, are y'all live streaming this? No?
Speaker 3 (21:42):
Are y'all recording this? Yes?
Speaker 2 (21:44):
I got to the place I said, we look at
your camera. You got a SDI out? You do?
Speaker 3 (21:48):
Okay?
Speaker 2 (21:49):
Cool? I need an SDI out. I set my live streaming,
my live U box up, didn't have to put my
camera up, connect it. I then live stream my speech
from very event and again ulize in their equipment. I've
done that numerous times, and so that so when you
understand people got to realize I want to communications high
(22:09):
school Jackcad's high school, Magic school Communications. So I learned
behind the camera. I didn't I didn't.
Speaker 3 (22:15):
Even want to do in front of the camera.
Speaker 2 (22:17):
By learn behind the camera how all the pieces work.
And so once you do that, now you understand the technology.
Now you understand just you know sort of how these
things work. And so then when you begin to realize
and it's just some basic things that people don't even understand.
So even if we're we were testing something in our studio.
(22:39):
So you take, you give an example, you just take.
So this is the iPhone and we had this, we
had I think a Holly Land connected because we wanted
to be able to use the phone to to do
for the cinematic Look, well, the problem is we was like, okay, fine,
well this this is the problem here, uh with the iPhone,
So all the markings are still on here. Then we
(23:01):
realize with the black Magic app, you can actually remove
the markings. Now you can do something different. So I
am in a constant and this is people don't understand.
And people stop me and they say, man, I can't
believe you don't have somebody who's not doing that stuff.
I said, why in the hell am I see? This
is all so people dont understand business. Why am I
gonna pay somebody the daily rate, a plane ticket, a
(23:26):
hotel room, per diem to set my equipment up and
it takes me fifteen minutes.
Speaker 3 (23:34):
That's just dumb business.
Speaker 2 (23:37):
So if I'm traveling by myself, I don't need to
travel somebody with me to set my camera up. I
can do it. So and I travel a lot, so
that's an added expense. So I am constantly trying to learn.
I am constantly trying to see what's the next thing,
(23:58):
what's the next what can we do next? How does
this work? And I'm looking at pieces of equipment. I'm
looking at lights and cameras and all you and all
sorts of things.
Speaker 3 (24:07):
You know, I love. I did a whole video.
Speaker 2 (24:09):
I did a whole video on YouTube and people can
actually check it out.
Speaker 3 (24:14):
What do I call it?
Speaker 2 (24:15):
Because it was called content creator must Have? And so
I did this video because people and you know people,
they hit me for John O'Brien, my buddy.
Speaker 3 (24:23):
John's always like, Roland, you should.
Speaker 2 (24:25):
Do a masterclass. Charge people, Like now, I want to
do that, I said, because I'm not interested in just
now I got to sit here and sign people up,
and I'm like, that's boring.
Speaker 3 (24:33):
As hell, John, I'm not doing that.
Speaker 2 (24:35):
But I did this, and I did this whole thing
because I just needed people to understand how these things work.
Speaker 3 (24:43):
And so this is it right here.
Speaker 2 (24:44):
I just sat on my kitchen table and I just
went through the DJ Neo, the DJI camera, the DJ
Neo drone and could do this because there are a
lot of people they're trying to figure it out and man,
I've done it. I got so much equipment I got.
I got hell, I got an FPV drama but I
(25:06):
haven't even used yet. But I got all this sort
of But it's the knowledge, and I just think it's
stupid to have knowledge and have expertise and you don't
share it because okay, what's the whole purpose of in
hoarding it? This makes no sense, But that's just how
I work. I am every day. I'm sitting here looking
(25:26):
at this and testing this, and I'm like, you know,
all this sort of stuff like this here. So if
I was doing my show, I got I got a
pair of tailer prompter right here, I got the remote
control right here, and I had one for the road.
I literally could have my tail prompter loaded. And now
now now I'm on the road and I'm handling my business.
But that's what that's called, being though a student of
(25:47):
your craft, and that ties into the business of your
craft because that also impacts your bottom line. If I
had to pay somebody to roll with me, I would
probably be spending another another one hundred thousand plus dollars
a year if I had to have somebody travel with
(26:11):
me to set my stuff up with all the speeches
and stuff that I give and that that's just and
so by me being able to do it, I'm saving
my business one hundred grande minimum. Man.
Speaker 1 (26:26):
So for anybody who's listening to this and not watching,
you have to go through the YouTube video and see
what we just saw. I highly admonished you to go
look at those visuals right there. That was very inspiring.
So this is this a quote I found from you
where you said the most important thing we have in
black on media is authenticity and trust. We are perceived
(26:47):
that we're perceived differently. They see us as family. So
I want you to talk about what you mean by
particularly that last line they see us as family. What
does that mean? How did you learn that? And what
implications does it happen?
Speaker 3 (26:58):
But that's our history.
Speaker 2 (27:00):
I mean, if you're again, if you're a student of
your business, you know. The first newspaper was mar was
Freedom's Journal on March sixteenth, eighteen twenty seven, and in
the third paragraph of their front page editorial, it said,
in the third pair, we wish to plead our own
cause to long have other spoken for us. That's the
mantra of the black press. When you start talking about
Martin Delaney, when you start talking about Frederick Douglass, when
(27:23):
you start talking about Outa b. Wells Barnett, when we
talk about the Little Rock Nine, people don't understand. First
of all, Daisy Bates later on the Black Newspaper, but
when they were sitting here involved in the planning of that,
the black media, black on media was actually in the
room like they were in the strategy sessions. Doctor King
before Time Magazine and New York Times and NBC were
(27:45):
covering him, he had a column in Ebony. He was
always in Jet And so there's always been this different
relationship that African Americans have had with black on media
because we're there when everybody else saint there. I mean
even now, I can't even tell you how many times
we travel around this country and when we're going places
and we're visiting places, and man, ain't nobody there, local media,
(28:11):
local mainstream. Ain't there a lot of black people, not
black media not there. We're the only ones. Bishop Barbara
had a huge event uh in DC a couple of
years ago, and man uh, they had these risers and
was all this press space for the people came that
was it. There were small media islands ABC, NBC, CBS,
(28:34):
MSNBC scene in Fox News.
Speaker 3 (28:37):
None of them were there.
Speaker 2 (28:39):
And and so those things happen on a regular basis,
and so you know, when you when you were there
for your people. Tom Joyna always talked about this here
and I've always heard the same thing. I totally agree
with him that when you're there for your people, they're
going to be there for you.
Speaker 3 (28:59):
When you're showing up.
Speaker 2 (29:00):
So you know, one of the things I remember, we
was in Elizabeth City, North Carolina. Brother had been shot
and killed by the cops. Uh, and all it was
jam packed. I mean, all this media is out there.
They're all out there and being Ben Crump is holding
the news conference, uh and uh everybody is sitting here
covering it. Man. It was crazy. And so what happened
(29:21):
when when uh we was time for the news conference.
It was too funny, Man, it was time for the
news conference. Ben Crump was doing questions, and when it
came time to questions, he went first question Roland. Yeah, Roland,
(29:43):
we've had and so I got and then it was
kind of like you're done.
Speaker 3 (29:48):
Then he went to everybody else.
Speaker 2 (29:50):
Those things have happened to other places a lot, but
there are some black folk who don't do that. There's
some black folks who they believed in white validation. And
I remind these we gonna be here when they never
show up, So don't all of a sudden try to
treat them special because they rolled up in here, because
we know who was here being has had clients that
(30:14):
when because he's had clients where they said no, no, no, Ben,
our first interview is going to be on Rolling Mark unfiltered.
Now these are clients who did not want to be
a part of this exclusive for turning sorority of having
family members killed. But on multiple occasions they said, no, Ben,
we're gonna do Rolland first because he covers this stuff
(30:37):
every day. And so that's what that means. And so
that's been our history. The black press, black on media
has served that role. The problem is what we have seen.
We have seen this dramatic degradation and decrease in our
(30:58):
impact again in a lot of black people at the
end of the Civil rights movement early seventies, when white
media starts hiring black people, we all of a sudden,
it's like, oh, now they're covering us, so now we're
gonna go to them. So in many cases, the consumer
abandoned black on media. Now when that was happening, Black
on media was not adjusting to what was going on,
(31:22):
and so then they aided their own demise. And I've
long said we're living in the period right now where
we will rule the day if we don't have black
on media, because there's so many stories. I mean, I
can't even tell you. There's stuff that I do every
single day, small stuff, big stuff, don't even get touched.
We've done stuff that three, four or five weeks later,
(31:46):
it'll show up on MSNBC or CNN. But here's what
pisces me off. What pisces me off. Recye Kobert talked
about this all the time.
Speaker 4 (31:54):
You'll get black folks who then will grab that clip
because it was on MSNBC or a lot of primary
black people who grabbed that clip and posted on their
Instagram page and posted on their Twitter page.
Speaker 2 (32:08):
And I'm going, but we five weeks ago, four weeks
and a free weeks ago. So again, those things happened.
But I believe what my responsibility as a black on
media owner, My responsibility is to give black people high
(32:30):
quality content that is relevant, that looks good. I was
at the National Underground Railroad Freedom Center party and Gampbell
had this thing.
Speaker 3 (32:37):
It was a panel, and I was sitting on the panel.
Speaker 2 (32:39):
And his brother it was kicking. Pree was over here
and his brother was here. His brother here owned a
barbershop salon in Cincinnati. And this exactly is this truth
through what that he goes. He goes, y'all we have
got here. This is that National undergro Underground Railroad Freedom Center. Y'all, man,
we got to support Roland Martin.
Speaker 3 (32:59):
This where he messed up.
Speaker 2 (33:00):
He goes, not now, y'all, it's not gonna look as
good as CNN.
Speaker 3 (33:07):
I said, Wait a fucking minute.
Speaker 2 (33:08):
Oh wow, He goes, no, no, no, no, bro. I said, no, no, no,
no no. I said, I need you to understand what
you just said. What you just said is that we
from a look, we are second class. Mm hmm.
Speaker 3 (33:28):
I said, And let me be real clear.
Speaker 2 (33:31):
I don't have the billion dollars in profit that CNN has.
I said, but my robotic cameras are four K I said,
I got high quality lights. I said, don't you ever
say that I don't look as good as CNN. Man.
Speaker 3 (33:50):
That was wild.
Speaker 2 (33:52):
That is a that is a brother. When I had
when I have my TV one show, this is this is.
A brother said to me, this is I had. A
brother said this, his sister said it. Brother said, man,
where you gonna get you your own show? And I
was like, I am on five days a week.
Speaker 3 (34:11):
He goes.
Speaker 2 (34:12):
He said no, no, no, no, no, I know about
your TV one show. He said, I mean a real show.
Speaker 1 (34:19):
Yeah, come on, come on.
Speaker 2 (34:20):
He said, come on CNN or one of these networks.
I said not again. I was like, I can cuss
him out or I can educate him. So here's what
I said. I said, brother, let me ask you a question.
I said, are you aware that when Brian Williams comes
(34:41):
to NB comes to DC, he sits in the same
chair I do.
Speaker 3 (34:46):
And he looked at me.
Speaker 2 (34:47):
I said, there's the plexiglass table to the left, and
there's a bristle brush on the bottom shelf, and there's
another brush on the top shelf that white people use
to calm their hair. I said, bristol brushes. Mind, he's
still now he looking at me. I said, you need
to be aware, I said, the set, the walls, the camera.
(35:09):
I said, oh, you didn't realize we contract.
Speaker 3 (35:12):
The studio from NBC. News channel.
Speaker 2 (35:15):
I said, when Brian Williams comes here, they send the
signal down the fiber optic lines to New York.
Speaker 3 (35:22):
We send ours to Denver.
Speaker 2 (35:24):
I said, same studio, same cameras, same lights, same background,
same fiber optics. I said, but you said my show
is not real. So what you were telling me is
because it airs on a black network, you don't think
(35:45):
it's a real show. Brother that he was, He was apologetic.
I said this, and this is the power of white supremacy.
The power of white supremacy is that it will dictate to.
Speaker 3 (36:00):
Black people that what is ours.
Speaker 2 (36:05):
We instinctively, we automatically off the jump. We think it's
second rate, it's second class, it's not good enough, and
a white man's ice is colder.
Speaker 3 (36:21):
And that that is.
Speaker 2 (36:23):
That is the power, that is the legacy of white
supremacy and why it still has a hold on black people.
Speaker 3 (36:30):
And we mustn't.
Speaker 2 (36:31):
I and John o'brown always says, black people we need
He said, we need, we need to reboot.
Speaker 3 (36:36):
I say no. He says, no, we need a software upgrade.
Speaker 2 (36:40):
I said, no, black people need to be completely reprogrammed,
because we start off we haven't even opened our mouths yet.
And we automatically say, oh, he's black, she's black, and
they own it second class, second rate, not good enough
quality that saying actively black has dealt with this as
(37:03):
show me a black company.
Speaker 3 (37:05):
They've had to confront.
Speaker 2 (37:07):
But that's the conditioning of the mind of black people,
and that is a result of white supremacy.
Speaker 1 (37:14):
Wow. So I've so I've been podcasting in radio long
enough to see players become owners and you think about
your and it's unfortunate because you're the only person I
think about in this class. And that is the the
Glenn Becks who get fired and then going to start
their own network. And it's then the Tucker Carlstons who
get fired and then go start and you are the
only you know, number one black, but number one more
(37:37):
progressive person that I think about, Like, you own your
stuff and you get to put other people on your platform.
And so going a level deeper on that, thinking that
you shared some of those brothers that presented you with
how what can you share? Like the economics and Okay,
I got a job, I got a contract with the
CNN or a Fox or but I own this and
(37:58):
the economics are just different.
Speaker 3 (38:01):
Okay. So so even when I was there.
Speaker 2 (38:05):
I was never so when I was at SO, I
was at TV one Tom Join the Morning the Show,
seeing in at the same time. And I wasn't an
employee of none of either one of them. I had
a media company. I was.
Speaker 3 (38:25):
It was ten ninety nine.
Speaker 2 (38:26):
And let me explain that is and I've given I've
given these I've given these lectures and classes around the world.
The concept is the concept that you have to.
Speaker 3 (38:37):
Have when you are a quote.
Speaker 2 (38:39):
An employee is me ink, is me ink, So whatever
your name is, to put ink.
Speaker 3 (38:45):
On the e, you are a walking, talking corporation.
Speaker 2 (38:49):
So I didn't even so when I was an employee,
I didn't consider myself to be an employee. I saw
myself as a vendor and they were the client. So
when you apply for a job, it's no different than
when you respond to an RFP, a request for proposal.
(39:11):
When you apply for a job, you say I can
do that job, and you go in you interview. Well,
RFP is the exact same process. And guess what you
get hired for the job. Well, if you get hired
for the RFP, they the client. You're the vendor. Your
job is to deliver a service. If they like the service.
They continue the vendor client relationship. The same thing happens
when you're an employee. The difference is that when you
(39:33):
are quote an employee, but you put your see yourself
as as Kim Inc. Or as Dewan Inc. Or whatever is,
you now are looking at the landscape totally different. So
when I worked at the Fort Worth Star Telegram, I
wanted my own equipment. Well why did I want my
own equipment? Because if anything happened with the job, then
(39:58):
I already have my own phone, my own laptop. I
had my own stuff. So when I went to the
Dallas Become newsrok in the morning anchor the KD Radio,
there were times when I was requesting stuff and they
were slow to buy. So finally was like, you know what,
damn that, because here's the other deal. If I bought it,
it's also a tax right off, and then if I leave,
(40:19):
it goes with me. So when I took over Dallas Weekly,
I remember when I left. I mean, guess what the
scam came with me. The printer came with me, the
kode Ac DC two ten digital camera came with me.
All my stuff came with me. And what that then?
Did is if anything happens, and whether I quit, whether
I resigned, was I got fired. I had the tools
of my craft to now be able to freelance, because
(40:42):
there's nothing worse than losing an opportunity, losing a job.
And then now you're like, damn, I don't have a laptop,
I don't have a camera, I don't have my own stuff.
So now I'm trying to figure it all out. And
so even when I was at SO, when I was there,
when I was at CNN, when I was at TV,
I remember when they told me so. I joined in
two thousand and seven, So two thousand and nine I
(41:05):
knew I had There was an ad agency they wrapped
Southwest Airlines. My man said, if seeing it gives your
own show, I'm gonna be the main sponsor. So I
came to the table with my own sponsor. Dude, they
would freak the hell out.
Speaker 3 (41:21):
They never experienced that.
Speaker 2 (41:23):
So then all of a sudden they decided, well, we're
not gonna do a show. And so I remember walking
out of John Klein's office and I was one hundred
feet out. I called Jonathan Rogers. They're not doing Jonathan said, well,
they're gonna launch your show. They're not gonn launch the show.
We'renna launch a show that was in May. We're announced
it at July fourth at Essence Festival. But here was
the thing you fast forward That was two thousand and nine,
(41:45):
twenty twelve. I saw what was going on. No after
that or nine, I said, oh, they are never gonna
give me my own show At CNN, I said, CNN
has now become my personal venture capitalist.
Speaker 3 (41:59):
So let me explain.
Speaker 2 (42:00):
So here i am as a contributor at CNN. I'm
getting paid two hundred and eighty three thousand dollars. Okay,
So I said, okay, CNN is gonna start funding my
other stuff. So CNN is April twenty thirteen. I had
the same thing at TV one. I knew what I
wanted to do. I knew my vision was bigger than
(42:21):
the folks at TV one. They were slow, they were
not moving. So I started buying my own equipment. I
was doing that when I was at CNN, even before,
so going back to Dallas Weekly, going back to the
Fort Worth Telegram. So since the second job of my career,
I've been buying my own equipment. So I started buying
my own stuff. So bought this camera, I bought this light,
(42:41):
I bought this mic. I said, now I'm just adding
stuff to it.
Speaker 3 (42:45):
So check this out.
Speaker 2 (42:45):
We're at TV one, and every time we had to
shoot anything in the city out we had to go
through this outside production company. Well, there was some small
stuff that we needed to shoot. I was like, damn,
So I said, okay, I bought my own about three
can I bought my cannon XA twenty five. So I
then went, Okay, here's what we're gonna do. I said,
when we I said, if we shoot, I said, I'm
(43:08):
gonna let y'all use my equipment. But so I'm not
gonna charge you a kit fee. But if my equipment
is used, I gotta co.
Speaker 3 (43:19):
Own the content.
Speaker 2 (43:21):
Now, the person listening or watching him may go, man,
why the hell would you not charge them? Because the
content was more valuable than the kit feed. Because the
content now goes in my library, I can use that
in perpetuity. So all of a sudden, I'm sitting here.
So if you watch My Frankie Beverly and mais my
(43:44):
Frankie Beverly Mays special at TV one, every piece of
b roll and every photo and that special came from
my personal archives. I co own that content, so I
can restream that sucker as many times as I want to.
I don't have to ask TV one for permission to
do that. So I was thinking ahead of understanding, and
(44:06):
so as I'm building this thing, now, now I'm acquire
my equipment. So they canceled my show. Deceit Bey twenty seventeen,
January thirtieth. We do a thing called the State of
Our re Union. I call a Black church in DC.
Within thirty seconds the past that said yes. So when
we do it, guess what. I already have my cameras,
I already have my lights, I already had my switcher.
(44:28):
It was a couple of things that had to buy.
But I wasn't trying to go rent some stuff because
for five and six years I had been methodically buying, buying, buying, buying,
And so that's the mentality that you have to have
when you're doing stuff because and so now your focus
(44:49):
is different. Now you see things differently. Now when you're there,
you're like, Okay, how much is this and how much
is that? The other thing?
Speaker 3 (44:56):
Is this here?
Speaker 2 (44:56):
I think when I buy equipment, I'm thinking multi purpose,
not single purpose, but if I get that I can
do this, I can do this, I can do this,
I can do this, not a purpose make now the
purchase makes some sense. And so that's the problem for
a lot.
Speaker 3 (45:11):
Of people who don't understand.
Speaker 2 (45:13):
When you make the shift to owning, you now have
to think completely different. And you also have.
Speaker 3 (45:21):
To learn to tell yourself no. People gonna.
Speaker 2 (45:23):
People came to me and they were like, oh, man, man, man, listen,
and that can is see three hundred. Oh yes, that's
an amazing camera, but the body and the lens is
twenty thousand dollars. I need three cameras, I said, And
I don't have I don't have twenty grand to buy
three cameras.
Speaker 3 (45:38):
So you gotta learn how to tell yourself no.
Speaker 2 (45:40):
So I started our remote equipment with three Canon x
A twenty fives.
Speaker 3 (45:45):
Gave me HD had two xl xl R outlets.
Speaker 2 (45:49):
It gave me everything I needed had had SD I
out give me everything I needed to broadcast. Now what
happened to two? What happened?
Speaker 3 (45:57):
Three years later?
Speaker 2 (45:58):
I bought three can and see three hundred whatever. Six
months later I bought two more cannonsy three hundreds. So
today IWN five cannon SY three hundreds, a cannon CY seventy,
a cannon SY eighty two, black magic cameras, and also
a Canon D ninety. So I had to tell folk, no,
at the beginning stages to build to a certain level.
Speaker 3 (46:21):
And that's the other thing a lot of us do.
Speaker 2 (46:23):
Many of us. We want to come out flossing. We
want to come out oh man, were looking good. We
want to come out on all this stuff. Listen, that
stuff don't mean a damn thing. If you in business
for one year, all you said, oh man, we had
a great one year run. I'd rather say now we
(46:45):
ad a ten, twenty thirty forty year run. Yeah. And
that's how your thinking has to be different.
Speaker 1 (46:52):
And there's so much more I wanted to get to.
I would do one last question and then I'll let
you go out this. I'll put to the two questions
I wanted to ask into one. I think I can
do that. So I I was at dinner a couple
of nights ago with some very established brothers black man physicians, attorneys, etc.
And I remember one of them saying that they were
advising their son to not be vocal about what's going
(47:15):
on in this landscape. And the other. Another one at
the table was like, well, this is how they need
to be vocal. We need our young people to be vocal,
because revolutions have always started with young people. And so
I'm going to pair that question, what's your thoughts on that?
How should we be showing up today with this landscape
that we live in? And I'm going to pair that
with what advice would you give to someone who wants
(47:37):
to build their own media platform, particularly for our community.
Speaker 2 (47:43):
So the first thing is how much you are vocal
is based upon what you doing. There were people who
were saying to were people who were critical of Dying
Carroll and other African Americans in Hollywood. Hat the King said, stop,
(48:08):
Diane Carroll and Sydney Poitier are serving a purpose for
our community.
Speaker 3 (48:13):
Let them keep doing what they are doing.
Speaker 2 (48:16):
Diane Carrol was hosting private fundraisers at her New York
apartment and in LA that was funding the movement. Diane
Carroll wasn't on the front lines like Dick Gregory was,
like Harrabella Fonte was. Dick Gregory at his height gave
(48:37):
up making millions of dollars a year to go towards
the movement that was his personal decision. Harrabella Fonte, Mister
B loved him dearly. We were friends for twelve years,
last twelve years of his life. We would talk all
the time and texting and have lunch and dinner. This
is what he wrote in his own book. He said
he saw how the federal government broke Paul Ropson by
(48:58):
snatching his passport, preventing him from earning a living. He said,
and he died. He died, you know, almost broke. Mister
B said, I wasn't going to do that. So he
structured his business where he owned his content.
Speaker 3 (49:13):
So therefore the federal.
Speaker 2 (49:15):
Government couldn't do the mister be what they did to
Paul Rosen, So he learned from it. So I would
say to a person, first and foremost, if you have
a job where speaking out and speaking out happens on
different levels, Okay, I think there are a lot of
people who are speaking out who should shut up. Don't
(49:37):
let me just be real, coully clear, because your job
may not allow those things, but you can help the
movement in other ways. See, everybody is not supposed to
speak out. Everybody is not supposed to march. Everybody's not
supposed to be in front. What you have to figure
(49:58):
out is, Okay, how can I be of value to
the cause, and being of value, maybe you might be
an inside player in your corporation and you let those
externally do what they do. People tell me, man, you
ain't an activists. I'm not. I'm a journalist because somebody
(50:20):
gotta cover what the activists do. See that's what people
don't understand. And so you have to decide what role
do I play. Some folks could just say, man, I'm
gonna go do my job, but I'm a fund of stuff.
Other folks to say, you know what, I'm gonna do
my job. I'm gonna make phone calls, and so your
role can be different. The last piece is this, when
(50:42):
you're talking about that's somebody out there. They want to
be an owner. And I get this all the time.
People young people going to me and they say, man,
I want to do what you do, and this is
exactly what I say, But do you want to do
what I do?
Speaker 3 (50:55):
Then they look at me.
Speaker 2 (50:57):
I say, when you say you want to do what
I do? Ninety nine percent What that means is they
want the selfish, They want to be recognized, they want
to be able to call celebrities.
Speaker 3 (51:08):
On their cell phones.
Speaker 2 (51:09):
I said, But the work made that happen. The work
that I put in made that happen. I'm like, you
can't want You can't want what I do or do
what I do if you don't want to put in
the work that I put in. So that's the work ethic.
That's knowing your business. That's an understanding and studying your craft.
(51:34):
That's sitting here saying, man, let me learn this to
let me learn three point lighting, let me understand what's
too much headroom in a shot, Let me understand how
this camera works. I'm sitting here, man, this camera that
I'm sitting here right now, this is like a fifteen
year old Sony camera that steals spot on. They gonna
tell you. So when I got this camera, this is
what I set the camera down and I grabbed the manual,
(51:56):
which is like foreign to a whole bunch of millennials
gen Z and Jedia because folks want to be able
to google everything or go to YouTube. But you can't
do that. You know why, because when you out there
in the field and all of a sudden, that sucker
don't work and you got one bar on your phone.
Speaker 3 (52:12):
You can't YouTube.
Speaker 2 (52:12):
And so if you don't have an intimate relationship with
that camera where you understand, why am I not getting
audio what's happening here?
Speaker 3 (52:21):
Because you didn't read the manual?
Speaker 2 (52:23):
And so so still, even to this day, I get
a piece of equipment, I'm sitting here looking at it
learning this people what can all do? And so I'm learning,
I'm learning, I'm learning. Maya Angelou said, well, she did
the interview that she said, asked her and she said,
I don't call myself a Christian because she says, because
if I do, that means I've learned everything I need.
Speaker 3 (52:46):
To know what it means to be a Christian, she said.
Speaker 2 (52:49):
And she said, so, I'm constantly learning and evolving, and
it's sort of the same thing. I will never ever
learn everything I need to know about this business in
front of the camera and behind in the business. But
my goal every day is to learn something today that
I didn't know yesterday that I can apply tomorrow. And
(53:12):
that's what people need to do. There are too many
people who love the content. Man, content's easy.
Speaker 3 (53:19):
My wife always tells me, she said, you gotta.
Speaker 2 (53:21):
Stop saying that. But no, it's a plethora of content.
The issue is how do you monetize it, which now
means the business of the business, And so that's what
people have to do. And I just think too many
people And I just give you this last example. I
lost you twenty eighteen. These white guys with the recount
did the same Holoman some other cats. They raised thirty
(53:46):
two million dollars. They shut down in December twenty twenty two.
They sold a Twitter handle for pennies on the dollar.
They raised thirty two million dollars and in five years
they never figured out their business plan and the only
asset they had was a three hundred thousand person Twitter handle.
(54:08):
That's all they had. I launched this business the same
year with three hundred and fifty thousand of my own
money and one sponsor that was two hundred fifty thousand dollars,
and have grown it and we're still here seven years later.
Because I yes, I loved the content. I love all
of that. But if I did not study the business model,
(54:31):
if I did not pay attention to the out the
money coming in and the money going out, if I
spent money on stupid stuff that did not yield a return,
if I was not telling myself no, or telling staff no,
we can't afford that right now, then we wouldn't still
be here. That's the greatest lesson that people have to learn.
(54:52):
You have to study your business.
Speaker 1 (54:56):
Afrotech Conference is back and returned to as Town, Houston, Texas,
from October twenty seven through thirty first, twenty twenty.
Speaker 2 (55:02):
Five the George R.
Speaker 3 (55:04):
Brown Convention Center.
Speaker 1 (55:05):
For years, afro Tech has been to go to experience
for black tech innovators, founders, engineers, creators, investors.
Speaker 3 (55:12):
In twenty twenty.
Speaker 1 (55:12):
Five is shaping up to be the biggest year yet,
though with fortyzery attendees expected. This year's conference will feature
five days of dynamic programming across six curator stages from
discovery to executive leadership. Join us to hear from industry
leaders at the forefront of change, learn from top ten
engineers and designers, and connect with recruiters from nearly two
hundred companies. This year, we're digging deeper into what's next
(55:34):
with tracks exploring AI and machine learning, mad tech and
health equity, cybersecurity, climate tech, and much more. Whether you're
launching your first startup, pivoting into a new role, or
scaling as an execut there's something here for you. Tickets
and moving fast to keep your spot now at Afrotech
conference dot com. Black Tech Green Money is a production
to Blavity, afro Tech and the Black Effect podcast Networking
(55:56):
Night Hire Media. It's produced by Morgan Debaun and me Lucas,
with the additional production support by Kate McDonald, Sarah Ergan,
and Jaden McGee. Special thank you to Michael Davis and Lovebeach.
Learn more about my guests and other tech. Destructor is
an innovators at afrotech dot com. The video version of
this episode will drop to Black Tech Green Money on YouTube,
So tap in, enjoy your Black Tech Green Money, share
(56:18):
us to somebody, go get your money. Peace in love,
Afrotech Conference is back and return to AIDS Town, Houston, Texas,
from October twenty seven through thirty first, twenty twenty.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Five at the George R.
Speaker 3 (00:08):
Brown Convention Center.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
For years, Afrotech has been to go to experience for
black tech innovators, founders, engineers, creators and investors.
Speaker 3 (00:17):
In twenty twenty.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
Five is shaping up to be the biggest year yet,
though with fortyzery tenees expected. This year's conference will feature
five days of dynamic programming across six curator stages from
discovery to executive leadership. Join us to hear from industry
leaders at the forefront of change, learn from top ten
engineers and designers, and connect with recruiters from nearly two
hundred companies. This year, we're digging deeper into what's next
(00:39):
with tracks exploring AI and machine learning, mad tech and
health equity, cybersecurity, climate tech, and much more. Whether you're
launching your first startup, pivoting into a new role, or
scaling as an execut there's something here for you.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
Tickets are moving fast to keep your.
Speaker 1 (00:54):
Spot nowt at Afrotech Conference.
Speaker 3 (00:55):
Dot Com will lucas here.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
Black tech, green money is so good to be with
you guys for another episode. I have a special guest today.
I've been really looking forward to this interview. Roland Martin
is not just a journalist. He's a media entrepreneur, CEO,
and digital pioneer who spent decades building his own lane
in the news industry. He's best known for hosts and
(01:18):
managing editor of Roland Martin Unfiltered and founder of the
black Star Network. He's turned decades of experience in mainstream
media into a powerful independent platform reaching millions daily. Welcome,
mister Martin.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
All right, glad to be here.
Speaker 1 (01:33):
It's a pleasure to have you. So I want to
start talking about your media savvy here, your entrepreneurial savvy.
You know, when you started building your own platforms, what
was the gap that you saw in the marketplace and
how did those gaps inform the strategy for how you
built it?
Speaker 2 (01:53):
Well, first and foremost, if I go back to you
have multiple iterations. So the current one really was when
TV one canceled my show News one Now. And as
Alfred Niggas was telling me why he was canceling the show,
(02:14):
he was he was refinancing the company's debt and need
to make a number of cuts and literally asked he
was talking.
Speaker 3 (02:23):
I was already planning what I was gonna do.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
I saw, I already saw where we were headed in
terms of digital media. And for people have to understand,
I've always been eight to ten years ahead. And because
I'm a student of the business, studying where we were going,
I was studying cord cutting. I was seeing what was
happening with ny Or Television broadcasting cable, as well as
(02:46):
what was happening with ter Restaurant Radio. December twenty thousand, nineteen,
Tom Joyner was retiring and I said that, you know,
Black America is gonna be significantly hurt because we're not
going to have that major presence on the air for
the twenty twenty election. And you know, TV one offered
(03:07):
me a new three year contract that kept the salary
the same with three hundred and.
Speaker 3 (03:10):
Thirty thousand, and I said no.
Speaker 2 (03:13):
And remember my agent at the time, Mark whad say, hey, man,
let's take this deal was easy money. I said, no,
we're not because what I also understood.
Speaker 3 (03:23):
Was this year was that.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
They could easily pay me the twenty seven thousand, five
hundred a month and never do any type of programming.
And I kept saying, well, my concern was if we
don't do any programming, if we don't do anything, because
I had that before when I had Washington Watch, I
hosted the show. There were forty episodes a year, and
then in the contract, I was to do four primetime
(03:47):
specials and I think was paying me ten thousand a special.
So a couple of years we did it, but then
the other two years they just paid me the forty grand.
It was cheaper to pay me the actually do the production,
and so I said no to the deal because that
and that was the gap when I studied what was
happening in radio and to this day, and I don't
(04:09):
care what anybody says, and it's no disrespect to anybody
out there, but if you take what the Breakfast Club does,
Ricky Smiley, Di Ohegley, Steve Harvey, Erica Campbell, you put
all of these shows together, all these syndicated shows, they
do not equal the news and information that we were
(04:30):
getting on a daily basis from the time jour in
the morning show. And so that was what I saw,
what I understood, and then of course what then happens.
People were telling me, man, you should do a podcast. Well,
I people don't realize. I launched the first black news
source audio podcast, the Chicago Defender on two thousand and five.
I launched the first black video podcast in two thousand
(04:53):
and six, Black News Video Podcast two thousand and six
at the Chicago Defender. And so I saw where we were.
I was so taking all those pieces. I said, we
have to do this. And here's what was crazy. YouTube
was funding a lot of stuff, and I reached out.
I was told by the YouTube folks, black news is
not gonna work, Toby, and I went, Okay, I'm gonna
(05:13):
show y'all. It worked. And so here we are today,
going from and when I really focused. I had a
YouTube channel for years, but I really didn't do much
with it because we were prohibited from putting content on
the channel content up because of the TV one cable deal.
So so September August or September twenty seventeen, I had
about seventy two thousand YouTube subscribers. Again, I really did nothing.
(05:37):
We posted some stuff, but I was no focus. When
I launched in on September four, twenty eighteen, we had
one hundred and fifty seven thousand subscribers. And as I
sit here, today, And I look at where we are today.
We're sitting at one point one million, eight hundred and
sixty eight thousand, one hundred and seventy and so, and
(05:57):
we're we're every week we're in the YouTube top one
hundred podcasts and so, and we're the only black news
show in the top one hundred. Everybody else Black is
entertainment of the sport. So YouTube was wrong.
Speaker 3 (06:14):
A bunch of other.
Speaker 2 (06:14):
People were wrong. So the audience was there, they simply
were not being served properly, and that was the lane.
Speaker 1 (06:22):
Yes, that's amazing. So I think about You've mentioned a
couple risks you took there in that story, and it
sounds to me, and I want you to correct me
if I'm wrong, but it sounds to me like you
were more you were more focused. I needed to get
this in front of as many people as possible. And
the ownership might have been secondary, but was ownership forefront?
Speaker 2 (06:40):
No, it was. It was the same They want to
stay on the same level.
Speaker 3 (06:43):
So I understood. Again, I understood, the.
Speaker 2 (06:47):
Audience was there, the money was there, and this is
I mean, this is this was the literal.
Speaker 3 (06:53):
Conversation I have with Mark Watts.
Speaker 2 (06:55):
And again it was. This was June twenty eighteen. We
had met in March twenty eighteen. We had come off
doing the MK fiftieth anniversary of his assassination, and what
was interesting about that I'll never forget. So the show
gets canceled in December December, I think it was December nineth,
twenty seventeen, and so the fiftieth was April fourth, and
(07:19):
we had already shot some stuff, and I was like, Hey,
I'm sending them emails, Hey are we gonna do that,
We're gonna do this, that, We're gonna We're gonna do this,
and we'm gonna do this, and I wasn't getting any feedback.
So I just had it on my own to spend
thirty grand of our own money, and I flew to
Stanford to interview with Clarence Jones, doctor King's attorney. I
went to had a speech in Buffalo, and then I
(07:42):
then went to Ithaca, New York and set out with
Dorothy Cotton. I went to Memphis to meet with Sam
Bill Lucy, and I scheduled all these different interviews and
funded them, funded them myself because I understood the importance
of the stories. But here was the other thing. I
now had that as library content. And so what then
(08:04):
happens is when I'm meeting with them, they're not committing
to covering stuff. So I was like, all right, and
this is what I told Mark Marcus, my fraternity brother.
We go back to when I was in high school senior,
I said to Marcus. I said, Mark, I'm forty nine
years old, I said, and I am at the peak
(08:26):
of this is how I looked at it, the peak
of knowledge, relationships, experience, and energy. And I said, if
I don't do this right now, I don't know. If
I said what about don't do it now, I likely
never will. And I don't know if anybody black who
(08:50):
is who is willing to do this.
Speaker 3 (08:53):
So I have to do this.
Speaker 2 (08:55):
So I understood there was a business there. I understood
that there was an audience there. But the old added,
if you build it, they will come. That it had
to happen. Somebody had to make the decision. So I didn't.
It wasn't about, hey, let's try to go people like man,
I wish you go back to seeing at MSNBC no interest,
because here was a lesson I learned even there.
Speaker 3 (09:18):
And I was at the CNN.
Speaker 2 (09:19):
They couldn't get anybody to interview Winnie Mandela. She was
coming to town at Birmingham, Alabama, so they came to me.
I was like, yeah, sure, So I go to Birmingham
interview winning Mandela had about twenty twenty five minutes. So
a week later, I get a phone call and they go, hey,
this is the people in Atlanta.
Speaker 3 (09:38):
We're looking at the interview.
Speaker 2 (09:39):
Why didn't you ask her about the trial and this
and this? And I said, why the hell y'all interview?
I asked her what I wanted to ask her. I said,
why the hell y'all didn't ask her? They then said,
we're not going to run the interview. I said, okay.
I went to John Klein, it was a president seeing
in you, and went to his office, said, Hey, your
(10:02):
folks in Atlanta ain't gonna run the Winni Mandela interview,
so can you just give it to me, give me privirige,
give it to me, and I'm gonna run it on
my TV one show.
Speaker 3 (10:10):
John's like, yeah, cool.
Speaker 2 (10:12):
I went to when I went to DC, we went
to the CNN bureau. They dubbed the interview over because
it was on this different tape double hand to us.
We ran it on the show and here's the deal.
March twenty eighteen, I'm in Memphis, one month before the assassin,
a commemorational assassination. Winnie Mandela dies and I'm there and
(10:32):
I hit my guy. I said, we're gonna restream it.
I interviewed Reverend Jesse Jackson Senior. I interviewed Randall Randall
Robinson about Winnie Mandela, and we restreamed that. The only
reason you can see my interview with Winnie Mandela was
because I had a black on media platform where I
(10:54):
could air it. And if I didn't have that to
this CNN, that thing will be sitting on a tap
on the shelf at CNN and no one has ever
seen it. And that's the difference when you first of
all own a platform to be able to distribute a message.
Speaker 1 (11:14):
Man, this this is so much there. I want to
dig in. I want to lay a little bit more
foundation first. So all right, you decide I'm going to
do this on my own for the people out there
who are saying, you know.
Speaker 2 (11:24):
No, no, no, no, I no no. I didn't decide
something did it on my own. I went to every
major black media company, wow, and none of it, wanted
to partner. I went to them, I understood the business.
This is this is sort of how I saw. First
of all, you gotta take it back even further. I
(11:45):
had the TV one show I had heard. I was
talking to people that that that that the show was
in jeopardy and I said, okay, so I silly proposal.
And so here's what happened. I was see, this is
why you have to be a student of the business.
So I'm sitting here and I'm like, okay, you know,
how can we re engineer this?
Speaker 3 (12:07):
How can we look at this differently? And so remember
dish Nation.
Speaker 2 (12:10):
I was sitting there and I was watching it, and
this when Ricky Spider was a part of it, and
so it was airing on TV one. But then I
saw dish Nation was online. So I went to our
affiliate person. I said, I got a question for you.
Speaker 3 (12:27):
I'm curious, how is this nation?
Speaker 2 (12:30):
Because I knew that we couldn't stream we had limits
of what we could stream online the eight on TV one.
I said, how are we able to do this? And
they said, oh, we have the cable rights. So you
got cable rights, got broadcast rights, you've got digital rights
and then of course international rights are separate, they said,
(12:51):
but we have the cable rights. That's why it's online.
And I went bingo.
Speaker 3 (12:57):
So this is what I did.
Speaker 2 (12:58):
I put a proposal together and I said, okay, the
problem that we have with news one now is that
it's on TV one. We're not marketing it outside the channel.
We have a loyal audience, but it's too small. And
they they were doing a million in advertising a year.
(13:20):
The show was costing four to five million. So I
said okay, and I knew there was a digital audience.
So the proposal I sent them was, why don't y'all
let me take ownership of the show. I'm gonna make
it a digital show. You can pay me a lot.
So it was costing you five you can pay me
(13:42):
a licensing fee of three point five three or two
point five million. I will produce the show, and we
have a partnership where we're able to sell the digital
sell piece. You already have the infrastructure, and then that
can be a rev share. They never responded to the proposal.
(14:05):
The show gets canceled. When I decided to launch this,
I gave them another proposal, why don't you I got
to Radio one why don't you partner with me with
what I'm launching. I said, you can invest five hundred thousand,
and this is what I'm gonna do. This is what
I'm gonna deliver. We could do a repshure on the advertising,
(14:27):
no interest. I talked to Black Enterprise. I talked to
Rich Dennis over at Essence, I remember Morgan. I had
a conversation at Blavity, I remember, and it was just,
but it was just. And I talked to numerous people
because I understood all of these entities already had the
AD infrastructure, they had the AD infrastructure that back in infrastructure,
(14:50):
and that none of them were even doing what I
was doing. So my own deal was, this is the
value add proposition. You need to be able to sell
more unit and so here's how we can utilie streaming.
Nobody wanted to partner, so I said, okay, I'm gonna
do it, and I went ahead and did it myself.
But I wasn't but I was trying to find a
(15:11):
black media partner and no one wanted to and so
I said, okay, I'm gonna go ahead and do it,
and that's what we did.
Speaker 1 (15:19):
So I've seen you in person and I loved this.
You told this story last time. I saw you at
the University of Toledo doing the talk last year, and
you talked about the bag that you carry with.
Speaker 2 (15:28):
You everywhere you go.
Speaker 1 (15:29):
And then that bag is your age six zoom recorder
or whatever zoom recorder, you have, your cameras and your
et cetera. And there are so many people who still
today believe that they need all this equipment to put
out content. Can you talk about the first of thinking
and then the actual equipment you need.
Speaker 2 (15:50):
Well, again, the problem for so many people is the
problem for so many people is that they don't understand
the infrastructure.
Speaker 3 (16:03):
We're gonna do something.
Speaker 2 (16:04):
Okay, we're gonna do something right here, So just give
me one second, because I need to just give you
one second.
Speaker 3 (16:11):
All right, perfect, all right.
Speaker 2 (16:13):
So you just said, you just asked the question about
in terms of, okay, how we do this thing, how
it's done, and a lot of people don't understand. So
here's a perfect example. Yesterday yesterday I.
Speaker 3 (16:28):
Was I was doing a show.
Speaker 2 (16:31):
I was in Dallas, and it's a golf tournament that
a golf tournament that Nancy Liveran Klein has and so
I was invited to play in it. But here's the
whole deal. I'm doing it, but I'm also on the road.
I'm also you know, traveling, So I'm like, okay, the
golf because we had a storm. Normally I would have
(16:52):
done the show for my hotel room. A storm hit Dallas,
so the golf tournament didn't start at nine, it started
at eleven. I was damn So we ended up happening
was I had to do the show from the course
because I couldn't get We finished at four fifteen. So
as a result, by having what you just described.
Speaker 3 (17:13):
Then this is what that looked like.
Speaker 2 (17:16):
This is the literal setup right here where you see
right there, the four lights, the return monitor, you see,
the live you you see you see right there, and
again golf, the golf course is my back drop you're seeing.
That's the whole.
Speaker 3 (17:35):
Setup right there.
Speaker 2 (17:37):
All of that stuff is in literally a twenty two
inch carry ons and so and because again what you
have to understand is you have to think. You have
to think efficient, you have to think, Okay, it's just me,
and so how can I distill this thing down? How
(17:59):
can I be as small as possible? How can I
be able to do this, and so you'll see right here,
I was in Wisconsin. This is the look in a
hotel room. I carry four LED lights. A lot of
times when you're traveling, the walls are bare. Luckily you
got you got color in this room. Normally sometimes hotel
(18:19):
rooms got white walls. Well guess what I bounced. I
bounced that the I bounced the light off of the wall.
And now all of a sudden, I've given the show color.
And so that's four twenty five LED lights. They fit
in an Amazon eight inch Neil prem bag. Boom right there,
they fit right in. And so again it's it's when
(18:40):
you're when you when you're thinking. I was up about
three weeks ago. I had a keynote speech in Milwaukee.
Uh and the problem was the noon speech. I couldn't
fly out to get back to the studio in time.
So and I did this last year, so this was
the first time. And I said, Okay, drive me to Chicago.
I'm gonna kick a nine pm flight back to d C.
(19:02):
I'll do my show from Chicago or hair airport. Now
somebody's like, hell, yep, you're gonna do the show from
the airport. So this happened so I find you a
spot in the airport. Same setup. So I got portable power,
I got my four lights, I got my camera, I
got my live view, my return minderhites in the corner.
(19:26):
I got my Omni. I got my omni charged. You
see a teleprompter there, you see the live view. You
see my portable power. Because I wasn't trying to run
extension cords all over the place. So when you understand
how the technology works, then you understand how you can move.
And again you're not trying to sit here and uh
(19:49):
be crazy with it. And so I know somebody's sitting
there going, man, you're caring a lot. No, this is
literally it right here. This is one half of the
twin and two inch carry on and this is the
other side of the twin two inch carery on. Everything
that I need to broadcast is in that bag. So
the whole thinking for me is constantly. So let's just
take audio. Well, I used to have the Lively microphone,
(20:12):
the XLR come from the camera. Well guess what DJI
comes up with their wireless microphones. Now I'm wireless. Now
I can plug it straight in. Now I'm not dealing
with frequencies now not running but a cable. Plus that
microphone has like a hundred foot range. My cable can't
do that. So how my brain works, I'm constantly trying
(20:34):
to think of, Okay, how more efficient, how smaller can
you be? And so even as I'm sitting right here,
the reason I'm able to show you what I'm showing,
I have an ATM Mini switcher.
Speaker 3 (20:45):
Well I can.
Speaker 2 (20:47):
Also now this is a little bit more equipment and
so it can't fit in the bag, so I got
to have it through my backpack. But I have another
ATM Minute switcher. So a lot of times when I'm
on the road, I may not have time. I shot
some video I can't uploaded to the to the to
the to drop box and my staff can download it.
But if I have my switcher with me, boom, just
(21:07):
what I just did here, I can play my video
right there from the phone or from my iPad. I
can show the photo. I pull up live tweets on
the show as well, because I'm basically I'm sitting here coordinating.
So when you understand, when you understand technology, and when
you just step back and now it's a question of okay,
just the different pieces. So for me, it's how can
(21:30):
you be small, nimble, efficient, And so that's that same
portable suitcase. It goes wherever I go. But I gave
a speech in Indianapolis on Sunday.
Speaker 3 (21:39):
I was at church.
Speaker 2 (21:40):
I said, Hey, are y'all live streaming this? No?
Speaker 3 (21:42):
Are y'all recording this? Yes?
Speaker 2 (21:44):
I got to the place I said, we look at
your camera. You got a SDI out? You do?
Speaker 3 (21:48):
Okay?
Speaker 2 (21:49):
Cool? I need an SDI out. I set my live streaming,
my live U box up, didn't have to put my
camera up, connect it. I then live stream my speech
from very event and again ulize in their equipment. I've
done that numerous times, and so that so when you
understand people got to realize I want to communications high
(22:09):
school Jackcad's high school, Magic school Communications. So I learned
behind the camera. I didn't I didn't.
Speaker 3 (22:15):
Even want to do in front of the camera.
Speaker 2 (22:17):
By learn behind the camera how all the pieces work.
And so once you do that, now you understand the technology.
Now you understand just you know sort of how these
things work. And so then when you begin to realize
and it's just some basic things that people don't even understand.
So even if we're we were testing something in our studio.
(22:39):
So you take, you give an example, you just take.
So this is the iPhone and we had this, we
had I think a Holly Land connected because we wanted
to be able to use the phone to to do
for the cinematic Look, well, the problem is we was like, okay, fine,
well this this is the problem here, uh with the iPhone,
So all the markings are still on here. Then we
(23:01):
realize with the black Magic app, you can actually remove
the markings. Now you can do something different. So I
am in a constant and this is people don't understand.
And people stop me and they say, man, I can't
believe you don't have somebody who's not doing that stuff.
I said, why in the hell am I see? This
is all so people dont understand business. Why am I
gonna pay somebody the daily rate, a plane ticket, a
(23:26):
hotel room, per diem to set my equipment up and
it takes me fifteen minutes.
Speaker 3 (23:34):
That's just dumb business.
Speaker 2 (23:37):
So if I'm traveling by myself, I don't need to
travel somebody with me to set my camera up. I
can do it. So and I travel a lot, so
that's an added expense. So I am constantly trying to learn.
I am constantly trying to see what's the next thing,
(23:58):
what's the next what can we do next? How does
this work? And I'm looking at pieces of equipment. I'm
looking at lights and cameras and all you and all
sorts of things.
Speaker 3 (24:07):
You know, I love. I did a whole video.
Speaker 2 (24:09):
I did a whole video on YouTube and people can
actually check it out.
Speaker 3 (24:14):
What do I call it?
Speaker 2 (24:15):
Because it was called content creator must Have? And so
I did this video because people and you know people,
they hit me for John O'Brien, my buddy.
Speaker 3 (24:23):
John's always like, Roland, you should.
Speaker 2 (24:25):
Do a masterclass. Charge people, Like now, I want to
do that, I said, because I'm not interested in just
now I got to sit here and sign people up,
and I'm like, that's boring.
Speaker 3 (24:33):
As hell, John, I'm not doing that.
Speaker 2 (24:35):
But I did this, and I did this whole thing
because I just needed people to understand how these things work.
Speaker 3 (24:43):
And so this is it right here.
Speaker 2 (24:44):
I just sat on my kitchen table and I just
went through the DJ Neo, the DJI camera, the DJ
Neo drone and could do this because there are a
lot of people they're trying to figure it out and man,
I've done it. I got so much equipment I got.
I got hell, I got an FPV drama but I
(25:06):
haven't even used yet. But I got all this sort
of But it's the knowledge, and I just think it's
stupid to have knowledge and have expertise and you don't
share it because okay, what's the whole purpose of in
hoarding it? This makes no sense, But that's just how
I work. I am every day. I'm sitting here looking
(25:26):
at this and testing this, and I'm like, you know,
all this sort of stuff like this here. So if
I was doing my show, I got I got a
pair of tailer prompter right here, I got the remote
control right here, and I had one for the road.
I literally could have my tail prompter loaded. And now
now now I'm on the road and I'm handling my business.
But that's what that's called, being though a student of
(25:47):
your craft, and that ties into the business of your
craft because that also impacts your bottom line. If I
had to pay somebody to roll with me, I would
probably be spending another another one hundred thousand plus dollars
a year if I had to have somebody travel with
(26:11):
me to set my stuff up with all the speeches
and stuff that I give and that that's just and
so by me being able to do it, I'm saving
my business one hundred grande minimum. Man.
Speaker 1 (26:26):
So for anybody who's listening to this and not watching,
you have to go through the YouTube video and see
what we just saw. I highly admonished you to go
look at those visuals right there. That was very inspiring.
So this is this a quote I found from you
where you said the most important thing we have in
black on media is authenticity and trust. We are perceived
(26:47):
that we're perceived differently. They see us as family. So
I want you to talk about what you mean by
particularly that last line they see us as family. What
does that mean? How did you learn that? And what
implications does it happen?
Speaker 3 (26:58):
But that's our history.
Speaker 2 (27:00):
I mean, if you're again, if you're a student of
your business, you know. The first newspaper was mar was
Freedom's Journal on March sixteenth, eighteen twenty seven, and in
the third paragraph of their front page editorial, it said,
in the third pair, we wish to plead our own
cause to long have other spoken for us. That's the
mantra of the black press. When you start talking about
Martin Delaney, when you start talking about Frederick Douglass, when
(27:23):
you start talking about Outa b. Wells Barnett, when we
talk about the Little Rock Nine, people don't understand. First
of all, Daisy Bates later on the Black Newspaper, but
when they were sitting here involved in the planning of that,
the black media, black on media was actually in the
room like they were in the strategy sessions. Doctor King
before Time Magazine and New York Times and NBC were
(27:45):
covering him, he had a column in Ebony. He was
always in Jet And so there's always been this different
relationship that African Americans have had with black on media
because we're there when everybody else saint there. I mean
even now, I can't even tell you how many times
we travel around this country and when we're going places
and we're visiting places, and man, ain't nobody there, local media,
(28:11):
local mainstream. Ain't there a lot of black people, not
black media not there. We're the only ones. Bishop Barbara
had a huge event uh in DC a couple of
years ago, and man uh, they had these risers and
was all this press space for the people came that
was it. There were small media islands ABC, NBC, CBS,
(28:34):
MSNBC scene in Fox News.
Speaker 3 (28:37):
None of them were there.
Speaker 2 (28:39):
And and so those things happen on a regular basis,
and so you know, when you when you were there
for your people. Tom Joyna always talked about this here
and I've always heard the same thing. I totally agree
with him that when you're there for your people, they're
going to be there for you.
Speaker 3 (28:59):
When you're showing up.
Speaker 2 (29:00):
So you know, one of the things I remember, we
was in Elizabeth City, North Carolina. Brother had been shot
and killed by the cops. Uh, and all it was
jam packed. I mean, all this media is out there.
They're all out there and being Ben Crump is holding
the news conference, uh and uh everybody is sitting here
covering it. Man. It was crazy. And so what happened
(29:21):
when when uh we was time for the news conference.
It was too funny, Man, it was time for the
news conference. Ben Crump was doing questions, and when it
came time to questions, he went first question Roland. Yeah, Roland,
(29:43):
we've had and so I got and then it was
kind of like you're done.
Speaker 3 (29:48):
Then he went to everybody else.
Speaker 2 (29:50):
Those things have happened to other places a lot, but
there are some black folk who don't do that. There's
some black folks who they believed in white validation. And
I remind these we gonna be here when they never
show up, So don't all of a sudden try to
treat them special because they rolled up in here, because
we know who was here being has had clients that
(30:14):
when because he's had clients where they said no, no, no, Ben,
our first interview is going to be on Rolling Mark unfiltered.
Now these are clients who did not want to be
a part of this exclusive for turning sorority of having
family members killed. But on multiple occasions they said, no, Ben,
we're gonna do Rolland first because he covers this stuff
(30:37):
every day. And so that's what that means. And so
that's been our history. The black press, black on media
has served that role. The problem is what we have seen.
We have seen this dramatic degradation and decrease in our
(30:58):
impact again in a lot of black people at the
end of the Civil rights movement early seventies, when white
media starts hiring black people, we all of a sudden,
it's like, oh, now they're covering us, so now we're
gonna go to them. So in many cases, the consumer
abandoned black on media. Now when that was happening, Black
on media was not adjusting to what was going on,
(31:22):
and so then they aided their own demise. And I've
long said we're living in the period right now where
we will rule the day if we don't have black
on media, because there's so many stories. I mean, I
can't even tell you. There's stuff that I do every
single day, small stuff, big stuff, don't even get touched.
We've done stuff that three, four or five weeks later,
(31:46):
it'll show up on MSNBC or CNN. But here's what
pisces me off. What pisces me off. Recye Kobert talked
about this all the time.
Speaker 4 (31:54):
You'll get black folks who then will grab that clip
because it was on MSNBC or a lot of primary
black people who grabbed that clip and posted on their
Instagram page and posted on their Twitter page.
Speaker 2 (32:08):
And I'm going, but we five weeks ago, four weeks
and a free weeks ago. So again, those things happened.
But I believe what my responsibility as a black on
media owner, My responsibility is to give black people high
(32:30):
quality content that is relevant, that looks good. I was
at the National Underground Railroad Freedom Center party and Gampbell
had this thing.
Speaker 3 (32:37):
It was a panel, and I was sitting on the panel.
Speaker 2 (32:39):
And his brother it was kicking. Pree was over here
and his brother was here. His brother here owned a
barbershop salon in Cincinnati. And this exactly is this truth
through what that he goes. He goes, y'all we have
got here. This is that National undergro Underground Railroad Freedom Center. Y'all, man,
we got to support Roland Martin.
Speaker 3 (32:59):
This where he messed up.
Speaker 2 (33:00):
He goes, not now, y'all, it's not gonna look as
good as CNN.
Speaker 3 (33:07):
I said, Wait a fucking minute.
Speaker 2 (33:08):
Oh wow, He goes, no, no, no, no, bro. I said, no, no, no,
no no. I said, I need you to understand what
you just said. What you just said is that we
from a look, we are second class. Mm hmm.
Speaker 3 (33:28):
I said, And let me be real clear.
Speaker 2 (33:31):
I don't have the billion dollars in profit that CNN has.
I said, but my robotic cameras are four K I said,
I got high quality lights. I said, don't you ever
say that I don't look as good as CNN. Man.
Speaker 3 (33:50):
That was wild.
Speaker 2 (33:52):
That is a that is a brother. When I had
when I have my TV one show, this is this is.
A brother said to me, this is I had. A
brother said this, his sister said it. Brother said, man,
where you gonna get you your own show? And I
was like, I am on five days a week.
Speaker 3 (34:11):
He goes.
Speaker 2 (34:12):
He said no, no, no, no, no, I know about
your TV one show. He said, I mean a real show.
Speaker 1 (34:19):
Yeah, come on, come on.
Speaker 2 (34:20):
He said, come on CNN or one of these networks.
I said not again. I was like, I can cuss
him out or I can educate him. So here's what
I said. I said, brother, let me ask you a question.
I said, are you aware that when Brian Williams comes
(34:41):
to NB comes to DC, he sits in the same
chair I do.
Speaker 3 (34:46):
And he looked at me.
Speaker 2 (34:47):
I said, there's the plexiglass table to the left, and
there's a bristle brush on the bottom shelf, and there's
another brush on the top shelf that white people use
to calm their hair. I said, bristol brushes. Mind, he's
still now he looking at me. I said, you need
to be aware, I said, the set, the walls, the camera.
(35:09):
I said, oh, you didn't realize we contract.
Speaker 3 (35:12):
The studio from NBC. News channel.
Speaker 2 (35:15):
I said, when Brian Williams comes here, they send the
signal down the fiber optic lines to New York.
Speaker 3 (35:22):
We send ours to Denver.
Speaker 2 (35:24):
I said, same studio, same cameras, same lights, same background,
same fiber optics. I said, but you said my show
is not real. So what you were telling me is
because it airs on a black network, you don't think
(35:45):
it's a real show. Brother that he was, He was apologetic.
I said this, and this is the power of white supremacy.
The power of white supremacy is that it will dictate to.
Speaker 3 (36:00):
Black people that what is ours.
Speaker 2 (36:05):
We instinctively, we automatically off the jump. We think it's
second rate, it's second class, it's not good enough, and
a white man's ice is colder.
Speaker 3 (36:21):
And that that is.
Speaker 2 (36:23):
That is the power, that is the legacy of white
supremacy and why it still has a hold on black people.
Speaker 3 (36:30):
And we mustn't.
Speaker 2 (36:31):
I and John o'brown always says, black people we need
He said, we need, we need to reboot.
Speaker 3 (36:36):
I say no. He says, no, we need a software upgrade.
Speaker 2 (36:40):
I said, no, black people need to be completely reprogrammed,
because we start off we haven't even opened our mouths yet.
And we automatically say, oh, he's black, she's black, and
they own it second class, second rate, not good enough
quality that saying actively black has dealt with this as
(37:03):
show me a black company.
Speaker 3 (37:05):
They've had to confront.
Speaker 2 (37:07):
But that's the conditioning of the mind of black people,
and that is a result of white supremacy.
Speaker 1 (37:14):
Wow. So I've so I've been podcasting in radio long
enough to see players become owners and you think about
your and it's unfortunate because you're the only person I
think about in this class. And that is the the
Glenn Becks who get fired and then going to start
their own network. And it's then the Tucker Carlstons who
get fired and then go start and you are the
only you know, number one black, but number one more
(37:37):
progressive person that I think about, Like, you own your
stuff and you get to put other people on your platform.
And so going a level deeper on that, thinking that
you shared some of those brothers that presented you with
how what can you share? Like the economics and Okay,
I got a job, I got a contract with the
CNN or a Fox or but I own this and
(37:58):
the economics are just different.
Speaker 3 (38:01):
Okay. So so even when I was there.
Speaker 2 (38:05):
I was never so when I was at SO, I
was at TV one Tom Join the Morning the Show,
seeing in at the same time. And I wasn't an
employee of none of either one of them. I had
a media company. I was.
Speaker 3 (38:25):
It was ten ninety nine.
Speaker 2 (38:26):
And let me explain that is and I've given I've
given these I've given these lectures and classes around the world.
The concept is the concept that you have to.
Speaker 3 (38:37):
Have when you are a quote.
Speaker 2 (38:39):
An employee is me ink, is me ink, So whatever
your name is, to put ink.
Speaker 3 (38:45):
On the e, you are a walking, talking corporation.
Speaker 2 (38:49):
So I didn't even so when I was an employee,
I didn't consider myself to be an employee. I saw
myself as a vendor and they were the client. So
when you apply for a job, it's no different than
when you respond to an RFP, a request for proposal.
(39:11):
When you apply for a job, you say I can
do that job, and you go in you interview. Well,
RFP is the exact same process. And guess what you
get hired for the job. Well, if you get hired
for the RFP, they the client. You're the vendor. Your
job is to deliver a service. If they like the service.
They continue the vendor client relationship. The same thing happens
when you're an employee. The difference is that when you
(39:33):
are quote an employee, but you put your see yourself
as as Kim Inc. Or as Dewan Inc. Or whatever is,
you now are looking at the landscape totally different. So
when I worked at the Fort Worth Star Telegram, I
wanted my own equipment. Well why did I want my
own equipment? Because if anything happened with the job, then
(39:58):
I already have my own phone, my own laptop. I
had my own stuff. So when I went to the
Dallas Become newsrok in the morning anchor the KD Radio,
there were times when I was requesting stuff and they
were slow to buy. So finally was like, you know what,
damn that, because here's the other deal. If I bought it,
it's also a tax right off, and then if I leave,
(40:19):
it goes with me. So when I took over Dallas Weekly,
I remember when I left. I mean, guess what the
scam came with me. The printer came with me, the
kode Ac DC two ten digital camera came with me.
All my stuff came with me. And what that then?
Did is if anything happens, and whether I quit, whether
I resigned, was I got fired. I had the tools
of my craft to now be able to freelance, because
(40:42):
there's nothing worse than losing an opportunity, losing a job.
And then now you're like, damn, I don't have a laptop,
I don't have a camera, I don't have my own stuff.
So now I'm trying to figure it all out. And
so even when I was at SO, when I was there,
when I was at CNN, when I was at TV,
I remember when they told me so. I joined in
two thousand and seven, So two thousand and nine I
(41:05):
knew I had There was an ad agency they wrapped
Southwest Airlines. My man said, if seeing it gives your
own show, I'm gonna be the main sponsor. So I
came to the table with my own sponsor. Dude, they
would freak the hell out.
Speaker 3 (41:21):
They never experienced that.
Speaker 2 (41:23):
So then all of a sudden they decided, well, we're
not gonna do a show. And so I remember walking
out of John Klein's office and I was one hundred
feet out. I called Jonathan Rogers. They're not doing Jonathan said, well,
they're gonna launch your show. They're not gonn launch the show.
We'renna launch a show that was in May. We're announced
it at July fourth at Essence Festival. But here was
the thing you fast forward That was two thousand and nine,
(41:45):
twenty twelve. I saw what was going on. No after
that or nine, I said, oh, they are never gonna
give me my own show At CNN, I said, CNN
has now become my personal venture capitalist.
Speaker 3 (41:59):
So let me explain.
Speaker 2 (42:00):
So here i am as a contributor at CNN. I'm
getting paid two hundred and eighty three thousand dollars. Okay,
So I said, okay, CNN is gonna start funding my
other stuff. So CNN is April twenty thirteen. I had
the same thing at TV one. I knew what I
wanted to do. I knew my vision was bigger than
(42:21):
the folks at TV one. They were slow, they were
not moving. So I started buying my own equipment. I
was doing that when I was at CNN, even before,
so going back to Dallas Weekly, going back to the
Fort Worth Telegram. So since the second job of my career,
I've been buying my own equipment. So I started buying
my own stuff. So bought this camera, I bought this light,
(42:41):
I bought this mic. I said, now I'm just adding
stuff to it.
Speaker 3 (42:45):
So check this out.
Speaker 2 (42:45):
We're at TV one, and every time we had to
shoot anything in the city out we had to go
through this outside production company. Well, there was some small
stuff that we needed to shoot. I was like, damn,
So I said, okay, I bought my own about three
can I bought my cannon XA twenty five. So I
then went, Okay, here's what we're gonna do. I said,
when we I said, if we shoot, I said, I'm
(43:08):
gonna let y'all use my equipment. But so I'm not
gonna charge you a kit fee. But if my equipment
is used, I gotta co.
Speaker 3 (43:19):
Own the content.
Speaker 2 (43:21):
Now, the person listening or watching him may go, man,
why the hell would you not charge them? Because the
content was more valuable than the kit feed. Because the
content now goes in my library, I can use that
in perpetuity. So all of a sudden, I'm sitting here.
So if you watch My Frankie Beverly and mais my
(43:44):
Frankie Beverly Mays special at TV one, every piece of
b roll and every photo and that special came from
my personal archives. I co own that content, so I
can restream that sucker as many times as I want to.
I don't have to ask TV one for permission to
do that. So I was thinking ahead of understanding, and
(44:06):
so as I'm building this thing, now, now I'm acquire
my equipment. So they canceled my show. Deceit Bey twenty seventeen,
January thirtieth. We do a thing called the State of
Our re Union. I call a Black church in DC.
Within thirty seconds the past that said yes. So when
we do it, guess what. I already have my cameras,
I already have my lights, I already had my switcher.
(44:28):
It was a couple of things that had to buy.
But I wasn't trying to go rent some stuff because
for five and six years I had been methodically buying, buying, buying, buying,
And so that's the mentality that you have to have
when you're doing stuff because and so now your focus
(44:49):
is different. Now you see things differently. Now when you're there,
you're like, Okay, how much is this and how much
is that? The other thing?
Speaker 3 (44:56):
Is this here?
Speaker 2 (44:56):
I think when I buy equipment, I'm thinking multi purpose,
not single purpose, but if I get that I can
do this, I can do this, I can do this,
I can do this, not a purpose make now the
purchase makes some sense. And so that's the problem for
a lot.
Speaker 3 (45:11):
Of people who don't understand.
Speaker 2 (45:13):
When you make the shift to owning, you now have
to think completely different. And you also have.
Speaker 3 (45:21):
To learn to tell yourself no. People gonna.
Speaker 2 (45:23):
People came to me and they were like, oh, man, man, man, listen,
and that can is see three hundred. Oh yes, that's
an amazing camera, but the body and the lens is
twenty thousand dollars. I need three cameras, I said, And
I don't have I don't have twenty grand to buy
three cameras.
Speaker 3 (45:38):
So you gotta learn how to tell yourself no.
Speaker 2 (45:40):
So I started our remote equipment with three Canon x
A twenty fives.
Speaker 3 (45:45):
Gave me HD had two xl xl R outlets.
Speaker 2 (45:49):
It gave me everything I needed had had SD I
out give me everything I needed to broadcast. Now what
happened to two? What happened?
Speaker 3 (45:57):
Three years later?
Speaker 2 (45:58):
I bought three can and see three hundred whatever. Six
months later I bought two more cannonsy three hundreds. So
today IWN five cannon SY three hundreds, a cannon CY seventy,
a cannon SY eighty two, black magic cameras, and also
a Canon D ninety. So I had to tell folk, no,
at the beginning stages to build to a certain level.
Speaker 3 (46:21):
And that's the other thing a lot of us do.
Speaker 2 (46:23):
Many of us. We want to come out flossing. We
want to come out oh man, were looking good. We
want to come out on all this stuff. Listen, that
stuff don't mean a damn thing. If you in business
for one year, all you said, oh man, we had
a great one year run. I'd rather say now we
(46:45):
ad a ten, twenty thirty forty year run. Yeah. And
that's how your thinking has to be different.
Speaker 1 (46:52):
And there's so much more I wanted to get to.
I would do one last question and then I'll let
you go out this. I'll put to the two questions
I wanted to ask into one. I think I can
do that. So I I was at dinner a couple
of nights ago with some very established brothers black man physicians, attorneys, etc.
And I remember one of them saying that they were
advising their son to not be vocal about what's going
(47:15):
on in this landscape. And the other. Another one at
the table was like, well, this is how they need
to be vocal. We need our young people to be vocal,
because revolutions have always started with young people. And so
I'm going to pair that question, what's your thoughts on that?
How should we be showing up today with this landscape
that we live in? And I'm going to pair that
with what advice would you give to someone who wants
(47:37):
to build their own media platform, particularly for our community.
Speaker 2 (47:43):
So the first thing is how much you are vocal
is based upon what you doing. There were people who
were saying to were people who were critical of Dying
Carroll and other African Americans in Hollywood. Hat the King said, stop,
(48:08):
Diane Carroll and Sydney Poitier are serving a purpose for
our community.
Speaker 3 (48:13):
Let them keep doing what they are doing.
Speaker 2 (48:16):
Diane Carrol was hosting private fundraisers at her New York
apartment and in LA that was funding the movement. Diane
Carroll wasn't on the front lines like Dick Gregory was,
like Harrabella Fonte was. Dick Gregory at his height gave
(48:37):
up making millions of dollars a year to go towards
the movement that was his personal decision. Harrabella Fonte, Mister
B loved him dearly. We were friends for twelve years,
last twelve years of his life. We would talk all
the time and texting and have lunch and dinner. This
is what he wrote in his own book. He said
he saw how the federal government broke Paul Ropson by
(48:58):
snatching his passport, preventing him from earning a living. He said,
and he died. He died, you know, almost broke. Mister
B said, I wasn't going to do that. So he
structured his business where he owned his content.
Speaker 3 (49:13):
So therefore the federal.
Speaker 2 (49:15):
Government couldn't do the mister be what they did to
Paul Rosen, So he learned from it. So I would
say to a person, first and foremost, if you have
a job where speaking out and speaking out happens on
different levels, Okay, I think there are a lot of
people who are speaking out who should shut up. Don't
(49:37):
let me just be real, coully clear, because your job
may not allow those things, but you can help the
movement in other ways. See, everybody is not supposed to
speak out. Everybody is not supposed to march. Everybody's not
supposed to be in front. What you have to figure
(49:58):
out is, Okay, how can I be of value to
the cause, and being of value, maybe you might be
an inside player in your corporation and you let those
externally do what they do. People tell me, man, you
ain't an activists. I'm not. I'm a journalist because somebody
(50:20):
gotta cover what the activists do. See that's what people
don't understand. And so you have to decide what role
do I play. Some folks could just say, man, I'm
gonna go do my job, but I'm a fund of stuff.
Other folks to say, you know what, I'm gonna do
my job. I'm gonna make phone calls, and so your
role can be different. The last piece is this, when
(50:42):
you're talking about that's somebody out there. They want to
be an owner. And I get this all the time.
People young people going to me and they say, man,
I want to do what you do, and this is
exactly what I say, But do you want to do
what I do?
Speaker 3 (50:55):
Then they look at me.
Speaker 2 (50:57):
I say, when you say you want to do what
I do? Ninety nine percent What that means is they
want the selfish, They want to be recognized, they want
to be able to call celebrities.
Speaker 3 (51:08):
On their cell phones.
Speaker 2 (51:09):
I said, But the work made that happen. The work
that I put in made that happen. I'm like, you
can't want You can't want what I do or do
what I do if you don't want to put in
the work that I put in. So that's the work ethic.
That's knowing your business. That's an understanding and studying your craft.
(51:34):
That's sitting here saying, man, let me learn this to
let me learn three point lighting, let me understand what's
too much headroom in a shot, Let me understand how
this camera works. I'm sitting here, man, this camera that
I'm sitting here right now, this is like a fifteen
year old Sony camera that steals spot on. They gonna
tell you. So when I got this camera, this is
what I set the camera down and I grabbed the manual,
(51:56):
which is like foreign to a whole bunch of millennials
gen Z and Jedia because folks want to be able
to google everything or go to YouTube. But you can't
do that. You know why, because when you out there
in the field and all of a sudden, that sucker
don't work and you got one bar on your phone.
Speaker 3 (52:12):
You can't YouTube.
Speaker 2 (52:12):
And so if you don't have an intimate relationship with
that camera where you understand, why am I not getting
audio what's happening here?
Speaker 3 (52:21):
Because you didn't read the manual?
Speaker 2 (52:23):
And so so still, even to this day, I get
a piece of equipment, I'm sitting here looking at it
learning this people what can all do? And so I'm learning,
I'm learning, I'm learning. Maya Angelou said, well, she did
the interview that she said, asked her and she said,
I don't call myself a Christian because she says, because
if I do, that means I've learned everything I need.
Speaker 3 (52:46):
To know what it means to be a Christian, she said.
Speaker 2 (52:49):
And she said, so, I'm constantly learning and evolving, and
it's sort of the same thing. I will never ever
learn everything I need to know about this business in
front of the camera and behind in the business. But
my goal every day is to learn something today that
I didn't know yesterday that I can apply tomorrow. And
(53:12):
that's what people need to do. There are too many
people who love the content. Man, content's easy.
Speaker 3 (53:19):
My wife always tells me, she said, you gotta.
Speaker 2 (53:21):
Stop saying that. But no, it's a plethora of content.
The issue is how do you monetize it, which now
means the business of the business, And so that's what
people have to do. And I just think too many
people And I just give you this last example. I
lost you twenty eighteen. These white guys with the recount
did the same Holoman some other cats. They raised thirty
(53:46):
two million dollars. They shut down in December twenty twenty two.
They sold a Twitter handle for pennies on the dollar.
They raised thirty two million dollars and in five years
they never figured out their business plan and the only
asset they had was a three hundred thousand person Twitter handle.
(54:08):
That's all they had. I launched this business the same
year with three hundred and fifty thousand of my own
money and one sponsor that was two hundred fifty thousand dollars,
and have grown it and we're still here seven years later.
Because I yes, I loved the content. I love all
of that. But if I did not study the business model,
(54:31):
if I did not pay attention to the out the
money coming in and the money going out, if I
spent money on stupid stuff that did not yield a return,
if I was not telling myself no, or telling staff no,
we can't afford that right now, then we wouldn't still
be here. That's the greatest lesson that people have to learn.
(54:52):
You have to study your business.
Speaker 1 (54:56):
Afrotech Conference is back and returned to as Town, Houston, Texas,
from October twenty seven through thirty first, twenty twenty.
Speaker 2 (55:02):
Five the George R.
Speaker 3 (55:04):
Brown Convention Center.
Speaker 1 (55:05):
For years, afro Tech has been to go to experience
for black tech innovators, founders, engineers, creators, investors.
Speaker 3 (55:12):
In twenty twenty.
Speaker 1 (55:12):
Five is shaping up to be the biggest year yet,
though with fortyzery attendees expected. This year's conference will feature
five days of dynamic programming across six curator stages from
discovery to executive leadership. Join us to hear from industry
leaders at the forefront of change, learn from top ten
engineers and designers, and connect with recruiters from nearly two
hundred companies. This year, we're digging deeper into what's next
(55:34):
with tracks exploring AI and machine learning, mad tech and
health equity, cybersecurity, climate tech, and much more. Whether you're
launching your first startup, pivoting into a new role, or
scaling as an execut there's something here for you. Tickets
and moving fast to keep your spot now at Afrotech
conference dot com. Black Tech Green Money is a production
to Blavity, afro Tech and the Black Effect podcast Networking
(55:56):
Night Hire Media. It's produced by Morgan Debaun and me Lucas,
with the additional production support by Kate McDonald, Sarah Ergan,
and Jaden McGee. Special thank you to Michael Davis and Lovebeach.
Learn more about my guests and other tech. Destructor is
an innovators at afrotech dot com. The video version of
this episode will drop to Black Tech Green Money on YouTube,
So tap in, enjoy your Black Tech Green Money, share
(56:18):
us to somebody, go get your money. Peace in love,
Host
Will Lucas
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