July 22, 2025 • 45 mins
Ep. 225 Ryan Wilson is Co-Founder and CEO of The Gathering Spot, a private membership club deeply rooted in community & culture. The Gathering Spot has clubs in Atlanta, DC & LA, and communities in NYC, Chicago, Charlotte, Detroit & Houston.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Well, look you see in Black Tech, Green Money. So
good to be back with you guys.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
And I've been looking forward to this episode almost as
we started doing this podcast, so I've been waiting for
the right time to do it. So he's been like,
you know, he's one of my favorite entrepreneurs, but to
say the least, I mean he's an inspirational entrepreneur, a
mission driven entrepreneur, and ladies and gentleman. Ryan Wilson Gathering
(00:26):
Spot co found the CEO of Gathering Spot, which is
a private membership club, deeply ruty in community and culture Atlanta,
d c LA got communities in New York City, Chicago, Charlotte, Detroit, Houston,
all over the place.
Speaker 1 (00:40):
Brian, could that be.
Speaker 3 (00:42):
Hey, man, I appreciate you, thanks for having me. I'm
really excited to speak with you, and in deep respect
for all of the work that you've you've been doing
over the last forever, I.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
Feel, yeah, I'm trying. I'm trying.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
So yeah, I've heard you talk a lot about the
origin story of the Gathering Spot, and we're not going
to go there because that story is very well documented,
but I am interested in There was a particular frustration
you had with the lack of spaces for you know,
particularly black people with diverse, diverse professionals to kind of
gate connect and get inspired. And what has changed about
(01:17):
the landscape from when you had that thought ten ish
or more years ago to today?
Speaker 3 (01:22):
If anything, I mean the fundamentals of why we do
this work that hasn't changed at all. But I do
think that specifically this moment, what we do like it's
really really important. Right. I wasn't fully anticipating that we
would be in what feels at times like such a
(01:43):
strong backlash to really any attempt to be diverse, equitable,
or inclusive. And we knew from the from the beginning,
right that if we were going to do this, that
we were only going to be in the unity business, right.
But two, we were also going to make sure that
(02:04):
the values of trying to promote real deep connectivity between
people that ordinarily wouldn't they wouldn't have met, that was
going to be core to the whole effort. So I'm
as embolden as I've ever been in terms of us
just like needing to make sure that we do what
we do well because this moment really requires it.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
You know, Let's go in there, you know I wasn't
planning to go here, but you make me think about
why what's different or more important for the work that
you do to make sure that black people are uplifted
now more than it was even a year ago.
Speaker 3 (02:42):
Yeah, So look, I mean to be fair, like, our
existence identity, right, culture has always been contested in some way,
shape or form. Right, That that isn't a twenty twenty
five new fact, right. I do think what's new is
that it's overt and and direct in a way that
(03:03):
in some ways makes it easier to address right, but
in other ways because of of of just how how
specific a lot of different groups are being about not
wanting to see I mean, I'll give you a quick example. Well,
I had a I had a corporate partner a couple
of weeks ago say that they couldn't host an event
(03:25):
at TGS because of the company's rollback to DEI efforts.
And then when asked, well, like, how does hosting an
event at the gathering spot, which is a black owned
business and does have many black folks that call the
club home most of the majority of the of the
membership base, how how do those two things tied with
(03:48):
one of them? How Is this a DEI effort?
Speaker 1 (03:51):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (03:52):
Really, they couldn't explain, right. I think that there was
a quick moment of realization that like, ah, wait, hold on,
I'm I'm I'm not willing to engage the gathering spot
because I have been tricked into believing that engaging black
folks during this time is something that is that's wrong
to do. So that's what's new, right, Like, like there's
(04:14):
a there's a pressure that many people feel like exists
to not engage where they were willing to engage twelve
twenty four months ago.
Speaker 2 (04:25):
You know, maybe a question will come buy this, but
you have me thinking about something somebody told me one day,
you know, and this, you know, for the sake of
the audience. Like I've come to Ryan often because I
have a social club also, and so Ryan has been
super helpful to me just in helping navigate how to
do this thing. And so, you know, one of the
things somebody said to me a long time ago was like,
(04:46):
you know, when somebody these corporations joined, they're using their
DEI budget to do this because you know, whatever, however
they are doing it, I'm glad to hear I appreciate that.
And you got me thinking about something the Key talks
about doctor Key Horman and who said, you know, you know,
we talked to have a conversation about support and like
(05:07):
when people go to Kroger, I'm not necessarily supporting Kroger.
Speaker 1 (05:11):
They just have what I need.
Speaker 2 (05:13):
And when I go to Costco, I'm not necessarily that
might be supporting cop but I'm but that's.
Speaker 1 (05:17):
Not why I go. They have what I need. And
so to your point, like this is space.
Speaker 2 (05:22):
You know, it's a there's a bar there, there's furniture here,
there's a microphone, all the things that's here.
Speaker 1 (05:28):
So I'm trying to form a questions a by thinking.
So it's like yes, go no.
Speaker 3 (05:35):
I mean, I mean I think that that's the that's
the challenge, and I think that the the the pushback
right that we have to continue to have at this moment.
We have to we have to take people's values and
put that mirror back up and say wait, wait, hold on. Recently,
the type of conversation that we were having was this one,
and what I just heard sounds a little bit different.
(05:56):
Slat's a lot different from what we used to talk about.
I just want to understand, is there been a value
shift here because again, twenty four months ago, right, if
you go back to twenty twenty one, twenty twenty two,
some of these companies were falling over themselves trying to
figure out how to get to black, black consumers. And
then now those same same companies they don't even seem
(06:20):
to know like what any of those efforts were remotely about.
And I think that's just that's unacceptable, and it requires
us to again hold the mirror up and ask critical
questions and realize that, like, if there's anything that gives
me hope at the end of the day, the pendulum
is absolutely about to swing back. The math requires it.
(06:42):
These companies cannot meet their thesis if it doesn't, right,
So that's what's fascinating about, Like, is anybody looking at
the math here, right? Because this math equation that y'all
are promoting, you will not hit the numbers that you
have been talking about hitting without black folk and a
every other type of folk. You feel like, isn't isn't
(07:04):
necessary in the moment Again, if you look at your
P and L, you actually know that that statement isn't
isn't the truth? So you know, we got to weather
this storm. But ultimately will it be okay? Yes, it
will be okay. The math dictates that it has to be.
Speaker 1 (07:22):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:22):
How do you see you as a representative of what's possible?
Speaker 1 (07:26):
Because I think about it.
Speaker 2 (07:26):
I came from like radio, nightclubs, all the things, promoting parties,
all of that, and I think about and I don't
know if it's a graduation, but maybe it's just different.
Like you and I are in the hospitality, food and
beverage and et cetera, and it's different than nightclubs per se.
Speaker 1 (07:43):
How do you see.
Speaker 2 (07:44):
Your role as representative of we can play in this
space too. We can do retreat which we'll talk about.
We can do hotels, we can do these things, you know,
fashion houses versus just clubs and just nightclubs.
Speaker 3 (08:02):
I think that it doesn't matter what industry we're talking about. Fundamentally,
we have to continue to remind people right again. This
is where I love that we still celebrate people that
are the first to do things right. We still have
that's still in our culture A lot. Sometimes we're challenging
about some of those moments. Though, is that like sometimes
(08:24):
we're discussed it's a little bit ahistorical. Black folks have
been doing all of these things for a long time.
We've had restaurants, we've been in Hoteling, we built big businesses, right, Like,
those things have occurred, right, So a lot of times
what I'm trying to do is remind people that this
actually is not a new tradition for us. It's an
old tradition and I'm a party to be a prod
(08:46):
to be a part of that continuum. Am I contributing
new things? Yes, I believe so, right, But am I
the first to do some bit of this? No? I
don't need to be the first, right, I need to
be a valuable contributor to what I see again as
a continuum. But it's hard to become something that you
(09:08):
have not seen before. On the other hand, right, so
we have to address folks that if you're in the
community and you have not seen what I'm talking about, well,
it's very hard in any context to become that thing.
So I think part of our responsibility is to be vocal, right,
so the folks see that, like, not only are we here,
but others have been here. And if this is a
(09:29):
game that you want to play in, then come into
the you know, and come into what is a powerful
and rich tradition. But I live in Atlanta, and so,
like I, I hear from people that live other places
where I guess the day to day experience is maybe
a little different. But I live in a city where, like,
(09:50):
black folks have been at the highest heights of all
of it for a long time, right, So that gives
me a tremendous amount of confidence to know that even
when there are thing that I know that we haven't
accomplished yet, I feel possibility. It's more of a like
when is this going to occur and less of an if, like,
(10:11):
I feel really confident we're going to get there.
Speaker 2 (10:13):
So before we go much further, I want you to
talk about what Retreat is because I have a lot
of questions that may touch on it, and I want
to I used to know, like what you're doing now.
Speaker 3 (10:22):
Retreat is a new effort from us that's a new
club that's focused on hospitality and wellness and privacy. It's
sixty thousand square feet of the same things that we've
always had from a space perspective, right, So it's event space,
restaurant and bar and workspace, but with Retreat we have
a rooftop pool and just amazing all around amenities, right,
(10:46):
But part of our thesis in the first iteration of
teachers the original clubs, we were really trying to figure
out how to create an environment where people could work.
Workspace is a big part of the footprint in any
gathering spot plus event plus dining, right, But if you
(11:08):
if you're there day to day, the work and event
piece really kind of leads that really drives the experience.
It's the opposite here at retreat, the hospitality and the
relaxation less work, right, Like, we're not allowing laptops here.
If you go to the gathering spot, there's a ton
of laptops intentionally, right, So this is a a new
(11:31):
offering from us. We're being really intentional how we are
curating the membership. They're about one hundred and fifty members
and a wait list of like a thousand people, and
we're being very specific about how we continue to add
to that group, not with the goal of being stuffy,
but with the goal of making sure that the relationships
that are being fostered, because this is a very very
(11:52):
social experience broadly really meet the meet the needs of
the membership. Right. So I'm excited about it. Again. Footprint wise,
it's much larger than anything that we've done so far.
So the original gathering spots is twenty five thousand square feet.
This club is sixty thousand, so it's significantly larger. And
(12:16):
we've got three sixty views of the entire city. So
on one side you're looking at the entire Atlanta skyline. On
the other side basically looking at the rest of the state.
And that's the same side the sunsets on. So it's
a really amazing kind of view of the both the
city and the state.
Speaker 2 (12:34):
Yeah, how does the expansion into retreat kind of open
the aperture of the mission of TTS.
Speaker 3 (12:43):
So I've always wanted two things. I wanted our community
to have access to the best of whatever it is
that we're talking about, right, and so in this context,
it's space. I wanted our I want our community to
have access to the best spaces around. This is world
class space. We can go head to head with any
favorite rooftop that you have around, right, I mean, it
(13:03):
really is that sort of product. But the second thing
is that I've always known that right, people connect or
want to connect for different reasons right there, They're different environments,
and so if there's a meaningful community conversation that we
need to to host. That's gonna be at the gathering spot.
(13:25):
That's the tradition of any gathering spot, right to host
meaningful discussions where we bring everybody together. But if you
need a spot to bring your clients or to to disconnect,
right to just sit by the pool and be for
a second, that's retreat. Overall, though, as an entrepreneur, I've
(13:49):
always been inspired by the big the big companies that
are out there right. So what that means to me
is the same way that uh Hilton can have a
number of experiences or brands in its portfolio, or Marriott right,
or a car company can have multiple models and different
I believe the gathering spot over time can curate different
(14:11):
experiences as well, and so retreat is our first stop
and kind of a broader perspective of different experiences that
will host.
Speaker 1 (14:21):
Shifting Gear a little bit.
Speaker 2 (14:23):
I saw your posts that you had put up, you know,
I think it was today yesterday, and you say, you know,
this is my first job, you know, And I found
that like, you know, you know, I chuckled a little
bit inside sound like you know.
Speaker 1 (14:33):
My question is how did you learn to lead? Like?
Speaker 2 (14:36):
Leading people in operationalized things systems and hold people accountable.
How did you learn to do that?
Speaker 3 (14:43):
So I'm very honest about the fact that I started
my entrepreneurial journey with a huge advantage. Right. My parents
are entrepreneurs, Right, so I grew up in a context
of seeing seeing them in business and learn thing I
didn't even know I was learning just by being in
the house, right, I quick aside, But I remember when
(15:06):
we first started ten years ago. I was with a
member of our team and she heard me leave a voicemail.
I left my number, I sat my number twice at
the end of the voicemail. For folks like.
Speaker 4 (15:19):
Yeah, born in the olden ages like me, you used
to have to you know, you couldn't read the voicemail out,
so you had to say the number twice so that
people could write it down.
Speaker 3 (15:33):
Well, she asked me. She was like, well, like, how
did you know how to do that? Right? And I
thought about it and it was like, well, I've been
sitting in the car with my parents for years, and
every time my dad leaves a voicemail, he would say
his number twice to give them an opportunity to write
the number down. So I learned a lot that way, right,
But then the rest of it right, because you don't
(15:54):
pick up everything in the car the rest of it.
I have learned by being open to to learning. I
haven't been, and I'm not right now a perfect leader,
but I am a person that spends a lot of
time in reflection. I know and care about my team,
and so when you know and care about folks, you
you're committed to improving. And so I've just gotten better
(16:16):
at knowing how to handle different situations. You learn things early,
like the business goes the way that you go right Emotionally,
if I'm super excited about something, the business might be
really excited about it. But if I'm super not interested
or down, the business also can be those things too, right,
(16:37):
So like staying as flat as possible, right, that's something
that I gained through experience just in working with people.
But it's been a decade, right, So you know, if
you're committed to growth, which I am, you should be
able to look back over a course of a decade
of leading things a business right and being responsible for
(16:58):
people knowing that like, well, yes, this is the only
job that I've had. I don't expect this to be
the only job that anybody else will had, And I
want the skills that they're learning, the experience that they're
having to be meaningful and hopefully complimentary to whatever their
next opportunity is. Right, But I've always taken a really
(17:20):
kind of long range view of our relationship with one another.
I'm privileged to say our first member of our team,
she's been here with us ten years. Second member of
our team been with us ten years. Third member of
our team been with us nine years. Right, So, like
our core team has been together for a minute. But
there are other people that have come in a different
(17:40):
seasons in the business that are doing really amazing things
in other contexts right now. And I'm proud that TGS
helped to be a part as a part of their
professional journey. And again, I have a responsibility there. I
have to be a good steward of the time and
talent that they're playing with us.
Speaker 2 (17:59):
What is in Ryan Wilson's EBC your every day carry
like aside from your phone, Like, what are the things
that you know you wake up to lead a house?
Speaker 1 (18:09):
This is gonna be on you somewhere.
Speaker 3 (18:12):
So I have a backpack, which is not that exciting, right,
But like it's a mobile I could work from anywhere. Right.
My backpack has everything that I possibly need, laptop, tablet,
every charger that you can need, every adapter that I
can buy. I travel a lot, right. We have got
locations in different places, right, So as long as I
(18:34):
have my bag, I can. I'm good. The thing that,
honestly that I first thought about that when you said that,
And this is super not interesting, but it's been. It's
something that I'm trying to talk about more, especially as
this kind of has gone on longer. If you see
me these days, I have like a gallon water jug
that goes everywhere with me, and it's a part of
(18:57):
my daily daily habit, Like I don't leave the house
without my is it right here? Like time? And the
reason why I bring it up, I am prioritizing taking
care of myself much more than I did when we started,
(19:19):
Like I slashed, I didn't at all when we started.
I was. I mean, I look, the discord was different
when when we was ten years ago, right, so like
it was full. We were right in the middle of
hustle culture, grind out. I'm like, if I'm being honest,
I'm naturally built that way, right, I am a I
don't have a problem with working, but I'm prioritizing like
(19:45):
rest water. Yeah, just overall being a lot more overall
stronger than I did when we started. And again, it
wasn't even something I talked about historically, but like I
had been trying to to mention it, because you can
(20:08):
work yourself to and through these things right like and
and out. And I realized that I was on a
trajectory that was not sustainable.
Speaker 1 (20:19):
What is the best thing you have read or learned recently?
Speaker 3 (20:25):
The best thing I've read recently.
Speaker 1 (20:29):
Or learned.
Speaker 3 (20:32):
That's a great question. So I'm I'm a I'm a policy.
Speaker 1 (20:40):
I read a lot of like, let me ask, when
when are you running? Let's let's talk about that.
Speaker 3 (20:47):
I run early in the morning.
Speaker 1 (20:48):
But no, no, no, no, when are you running off
from last for office?
Speaker 3 (20:56):
Oh no, I've never run for office. I'm gonna go
back to what I've learned, hold on for I Look,
I saw this stat recently, and it affirms something that
I felt like I knew. But like when I saw
the stat, it was like, oh wow, eighty six percent
of all jobs are secured through a relationship.
Speaker 1 (21:17):
Okay, And when I heard that yeah.
Speaker 3 (21:19):
It's it's intuitive like in one sense, right, but like
and another it's like wait, wait, wait, At the end
of the day, any opportunity statistically that you're going to
get is through somebody that somebody else, right, that you
likely know or that that person knows. And again, I
don't want to overhype this number, right, but I think
(21:41):
it helped to continue to reinforce that the relationships that
we have every single day that we're facilitating with one
another really are the tail of the tape, that they
really are the thing that are going to determine a
lot of things that are going on in our lives
and are we investing in in meaning for relationships. A
(22:01):
lot of cool tools out there, a lot of people
liking photos of this, that and the other and engaging
with people online and look cool. I like those as tools,
but the relationship, like the actual engagement with one another
super super dope. And the last major book that I
just reread Range, which I highly recommend for any entrepreneur,
(22:24):
like highly highly recommend. It's It's David David Epstein's book
and they just talk. It basically makes the claim that yes,
entrepreneurs are really anybody like the most successful people are generalists.
They're people who know a lot about a little and
or no, I said the backwards a little about a
lot and that Really people who hyper specialize are the
(22:47):
ones that face the most challenges. People who like, are
you know, only good at like a particular thing. Range
again kind of makes the argument that like, no, yeah,
as well rounded as possible. Maybe it's another way of
saying that.
Speaker 2 (23:03):
So I'm not gonna forget that I did mention this
Ryan Wilson run for office, and you kind of really
fastly skated by that one. When I listen to you speak,
I hear a future pick pick one, you know.
Speaker 3 (23:19):
Sid that I really I don't. I don't even I
don't I have folks have said that to me before. Look,
we're having the engage in politics here, welcome have welcomed
over the course of years everyone from President Biden to
Vice President Harris on multiple occasions, to many city United
(23:41):
States senators and cabinet secretaries and folks all the way
down to school board like we've always taken civic engagement. Really,
it's a really kind of core thing that drives with
TGS is about I though true, that kind of how
I see my job at TGS. Like to be the facilitator,
(24:01):
the connector of those candidates to people that I know
and care about or to, or or being able to
have a platform in TGS that can highlight issues that
are really important to us. If I'm being super super
plain about this though, Like I also like being able
to say what I want to say kind of how
(24:23):
I want to say it. And I think one of
the early sacrifices that you have to make as a
politician is that constant negotiation of how to say this,
that or the other. Well, like my stakeholders are the
gathering spot community, and I'm really in tune with what
they think and feel about our work. But it's a
(24:44):
very different context than being an elected official. And in
this season of my life, I couldn't predict that I
would be doing this. I went to school to be
I was in law school graduate fro law school immediately
before starting TGS, so I did not imagine that I
would be an entrepreneur. I do not imagine running or
seeking office, but I always will be engaged because I
(25:08):
had a professor years ago say, you know people that
that that try to make the argument that they're not
politically involved, Like, what does that mean? It's all politics.
The way that we're having this conversation, from the microphone
that you're using to the lights that are that are
all both the rooms that we're in, it's all politics.
(25:28):
It's all it's all regulated and controlled in some way
or influenced by government. So it's our responsibility to to
lean into that rather than to act as if there
is some world that we can exist in. That's that's
outside of the realm of politics. Because again, I mean,
what world is that we're all We're all in it
right now?
Speaker 2 (25:48):
Yeah, you know you talked about your parents and the
influence they had even when you weren't even conscious that
the influence of entrepreneurship was there. You know, many of
us in our community don't come from entrepren oreo households
and so, but that doesn't rule those folks out. What
advice for people do you give when they didn't grow
(26:09):
up seeing this when they're not in Atlanta. I love
how you say, you know, like I'm in Atlanta. I'm
seeing this every day. We're at the Black pop were
at the top of everything, but most of us, just
by numbers, don't live there. Obviously, it's very dense. But
most of us are all over in communities where we
don't see, you know, black people at the highest level.
So in both those respects, how do you convince, advise,
(26:33):
inspire black people to be something that they have not
seen in their immediate.
Speaker 3 (26:39):
I'm going to answer the question that you just asked me,
and I'm going to answer question that you didn't ask
me the question that you did ask me. Look, the
people that you think have it all figured out or
know everything about a given thing, I can promise you
that they don't. Right this morning, I woke up trying
to figure out how to figure it out. Anybody that
(27:01):
you know in respect did the same, right, I just
at a like very fundamental level. Now, is there access
knowledge skill sets that are built over time? Absolutely? Right?
But and this is a fairly kind of old school value. Right.
But I went to Georgetown for undergrad and I believed,
and still I got to I remember being at convocation
(27:22):
and they asked all of the valedictorians and salutatorians to
stand up, and that was not me, And I remember
looking around being like, why am I in here? But
then we got into class, we got into the arena
and I saw pretty quickly that I was willing to
go to places that I was not sure that those
(27:44):
folks were willing to go to. All the valedictorians, all
the smart people. My mother had sent me up to
DC to get that degree, and I was coming back
home with the paperwork, and again, I know that I'm
willing to go to Like, you're not going to outwork me. Yes,
(28:04):
you started right with whatever advantage, right, but on a
and I'm talking about this on an individual level, right, Systemically,
there's some other things for us to address, But like individually,
I am not going to sit here and believe that
all of the good, big, fancy whatever, right, all the
(28:26):
all the cool stuff is for you, and that my
job is just to sit here and take the scraps.
So I don't care where I'm starting the conversation. I
just like I don't I fundamentally do not believe that fact. Now,
the question you didn't ask me is, and where I
think we need to spend more more time, is that
if you have some of that privilege, right, even a
(28:48):
little bit of it, you have a responsibility to make
sure that you are pouring into someone else that doesn't.
This morning, the they were having this conversation, I spend
time with youth. I regularly prioritize spending time with youth
to try to close the exact gap that you're talking about.
(29:09):
So I have less advice honestly for what to do
if you don't have it, and a ton to say
to people. When you do have it, you have a
responsibility to do something with it right personal gain for
the pursuit of just having it. One isn't that fulfilling
at the end of the day. And two, if you
(29:30):
can show up positively in a person's story as the
person that helped to make a difference. To me, there's
no higher honor that you can have in a person's life.
And so again, if you've been blessed to be a blessing,
then like please do so, like please please act accordingly.
And that to me is where we don't put as
(29:51):
much pressure often where we spend so much time on
the other side of the equation, you know, with all
these tips and tricks, when if we would take that
energy and to say, hey, cohort of people that again
have been blessed just by circumstance a lot of times
right had had this opportunity or that one go facilitate
(30:13):
at least one other person having it. And if you
disagree with me, I don't know much what to say too,
but I will say that I would urge you to
reconsider our community. Especially again, I'm talking on an individual
level right now. Systemically, a lot of what I just
said is you can't overcome some of the systemic barriers
that I'm talking about by working hard, right, And a
(30:36):
lot of my work is really looking at systems, right,
the system that we live in right now, the fundamentals
of a lot of aspects of that system. I'll give
you a quick one. Yeah, if you were born on
the west side of Atlanta, right, you have about a
four percent chance of escaping poverty. Said differently, there's a
(30:57):
ninety six percent chance that if you're born into poverty
you're going to die in it.
Speaker 1 (31:02):
That's right, Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (31:04):
In that same neighborhood, right, if you're if you're on
the west side of the city, the life expectancy in
Bankhead is ten years less than if you live in Buckhead.
That is a system issue. That that that that that isn't again,
that isn't the try hard that I just talked about.
From an individual perspective. So part of what we have
to be doing across community, but certainly people, if those
(31:27):
of us that have the access to to try to
alter some of these stats are circumstances that I'm talking about.
We have responsibility to do that too, right, and we
have to do it from the lens that like, I
live in this city and it's not helpful to me
as a citizen to have people that cannot escape socioeconomic
(31:49):
pressures that are just ridiculous and that and that ultimately
are causing them in many ways to die younger. Yeah,
that that that is not a city that is hopeful
for me to live in, and so it is again
important for me to get active about doing something about it.
Speaker 2 (32:09):
I've got two more, I think, and this one I'm
gonna ask you the question that I'm going to tell
you why I'm asking, and then I'm gonna let you go.
So this one is the question is like what did
you learn about investor alignment?
Speaker 1 (32:22):
So there's there's stories. Obviously you went through something a
couple of years ago.
Speaker 2 (32:26):
People can read all about the dy This is actually
not really about that directly, but it's more about the
alignment or misalignment and so we've often talked about when
you're going to raise money, you know, in our community,
don't just get somebody with the pockets, but get somebody
aligned with you know where you're trying to go. And
my question is the premise is, like, what did you
(32:49):
learn looking backward about what would you have done differently
to say, Okay, we might not be aligned on the
future here.
Speaker 3 (33:00):
I don't want this to sound like a cliche, but
it's just honestly how I feel about it. I wouldn't
have done anything differently, right, Like, you make the best
decision that you can as an entrepreneur when you can, right,
And so I just don't play the game with this like, oh,
if the set of facts that apply in twenty twenty
five applied in twenty twenty two are applied in twenty
twenty right, Like, well, those are different facts that existed
(33:21):
in twenty twenty two.
Speaker 4 (33:22):
Right.
Speaker 3 (33:22):
So like the back pattern fundamentally like drives the output,
like drives the decision, which drives the outcome. Right, So
I don't allow myself to get into a mode of
like I can genuinely tell you that I have always
made the best decision that I thought, Like possible. When
(33:44):
I was making it, it was. It was the best
decision at that moment, right, which again, maybe in hindsight
you could you could say, if I knowing what I
know now, I would But like and my faith, my
faith is very important to me, right, I don't believe
without that chapter of the of the business that I
(34:06):
would be having this conversation to you about this chapter.
I actually don't believe that that, like like, that season
was required in like like truly in order to have
this season. So for me to regret that would be
to meet to be I guess regretting this, and I don't.
I don't regret this. I'm excited about this the bigest
(34:29):
product we've ever had, right, So, like, yeah, now to
your question around alignment. Look, I'm fairly simple about this.
I call it the cell phone test. If when you
are talking to a person in real time, and this
is a potential investor as an entrepreneur, and if you
think to yourself, when I look down at my phone
(34:50):
in the future and their name pops up, how will
I feel about that when I see their name, Will
i'd be excited to talk to them? Will I think
that there's possible there that they're gonna be helpful or
they're gonna at least ask me questions and good faith
to try to make the business better, or are they
about to be a person that I really don't know
if I can stand And if you on the front
(35:11):
end answer that question, if you're being honest with yourself
as I can't, I can't imagine speaking to this person
long term, then do not allow them to invest in
your business. It's just a lot of times, as entrepreneurs,
your gut feeling about a lot of this stuff, especially
these things that are less quantitative. It's really just about
how you like Actually, how you feel about it really
(35:34):
are important. So I would encourage you to ask tough questions,
take risks. This whole thing is risky. Again. That's another
thing that gets brought up all the time. People are like, oh, well,
you know if you could do this, that this has
all been risk this has all been impossible in some way, right, Like, yeah,
it was a bit possible. Maintaining that was like so
(35:56):
to hype, to hyper focus on one moment and be
like what about that one? And I'm like that one
we just came off of COVID and you're asking me
it's all. It's all risky, it all doesn't make sense.
We're all trying to figure it out. Make the best
decision that you can right now. That that's all I got, Like,
do not play the game with this. There's no such
(36:18):
thing as perfect circumstance. You're not gonna have the right
amount of money or the right team or the right
You gotta do the best that you can, but what
you have with the cards that are in your hand
right now. And so I can tell you in sincerity
that I have always played the cards that I've had
in front of me out And in some cases I
(36:38):
looked down in my hand and I had four aces
and and like knew we were about to like like
run the table.
Speaker 1 (36:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (36:48):
And then in other times I've looked at my cards
and been like, we gotta go board and just try
to survive. Sorry if anybody don't play spades, Yeah, that's
part of the game. So you know, I don't know,
I don't I don't look at it that way. I mean,
it is what it is, what it is. But every
season builds on builds to the next and not some
(37:11):
seasons don't always end positively. I'm not even trying to
make this like some sort of rosie. Sometimes there are
negative circumstances, but if you talk to even those founders,
they will say, look, when my companies shut down, when
we failed, I learned X, and that helped me to
do Why that's who you're experiencing right now? Why without X? Though?
That's right, we're not in a conversation. So again, I
(37:31):
don't I don't. I don't mean for that to sound cliche,
but I just.
Speaker 1 (37:35):
Is real.
Speaker 3 (37:36):
We get caught up in the in the like trying
to quarterback decisions that were made long ago, and it's
like to what end? Right? I mean, we got to
do the best for where we're standing.
Speaker 2 (37:49):
For the second of people who have no idea what
even to Google search or look on Africa.
Speaker 3 (37:55):
We were acquired in twenty twenty two by Fintech. We
ended up reacquiring the business a year and change later.
It wasn't the best alignment for us as a company,
and we professionally kind of went in different in different
directions after that time period. Right, And so where the
question comes a lot of times is would we have
(38:15):
gone through that acquisition knowing what we know now? And
again that's out a question that I can really answer.
It was the best decision for us to make at
the time that we made it. And here I am
now coming out of that experience with the biggest project
(38:36):
that we've ever had that I do not believe would
have happened had we not gone through being acquired and reacquiring.
Speaker 1 (38:45):
Company Love It last one.
Speaker 2 (38:48):
And this is when I read this, I'm like, Okay,
this is in my top five goat entrepreneur quotes. And
you said it, you said, I think it was the
city life, see the life that that come some time ago,
And you say it, we will thrive because our competition
barely likes a community that we love. And I'm like, oh,
(39:09):
that goes on the wall. Tell me more about like
this the spirit behind that quote.
Speaker 3 (39:17):
Yeah, fundamentally, Like I love the community that we serve
every single day, and so you might have better a
lot of things, more cash, more space, more and better
investor whatever, right, But like, I don't believe that any
of those things are going to compensate for the fact
that every single day I wake up with a team
that is deeply focused on caring for our community in
(39:38):
a way that I don't believe that you're going to
be able to do because you don't care about them
the way that I do. Right, So look at the
end of the day that I mean, another way that
you maybe describe this is like customer obsession maybe is
the startup way to talk about it. But like I'm
obsessed with my with my customer, my member, my community
in a way that again, like you're you're just trying
(40:00):
to figure out you're having you're having going back to
our previous conversation, you're having DEI talks internally right now,
trying to figure out like what the strategy is going
to be. I've never once had a DEI conversation inside
of TGS, not like that, right, So, like I just
like we're fundamentally like coming into you are coming into
(40:21):
this game at a disadvantage if you're trying to go
get my folks, because again it's a strategy for you.
It's like this is like coming from my soul. So
do I think that you can beat me in in
like soul work?
Speaker 5 (40:36):
Nah?
Speaker 3 (40:36):
I don't. I never never will ever believe that, right
Like I like I and if I'm wrong, like you've
got to go prove that out to me, Like We've
got to go, like go play the game and go
see But I know deep down in places that you
don't want to acknowledge. Again, this is this is a
strategy for you. This is I'm not being strategic. I'm
(40:57):
not trying to take advantage of demographic changes like this
is coming out of like this, this is fundamental to me.
So like let's let's lace them up and see what
happens next. Right, But like I fundamentally think that we
win under under these it is to look at sports
and I'm sports person, Like it's like I'm playing at home,
(41:19):
like you're you're constantly playing an away game. Yeah, much
better you have to be than me at home to
be on the road and like win. There's a reason
why there's such a thing as a home team advantage
for a reason because like when you're when you're comfortable
in environment that allows you to create and and care
(41:42):
for for all of the things you need to look
at differently than like the person that is like trying
to get adjusted to the to the atmosphere. So yeah,
I mean again, we've been short stacked a whole bunch
of times against a whole bunch of people. I've seen
businesses come and go in this in this game. Respect
(42:04):
to them, right, but like a lot of times when
they would announce they have these big funding rounds, people like,
are you nervous, like nervous about what again? This is
a strategy for them?
Speaker 1 (42:14):
Yeah, I'm not.
Speaker 3 (42:18):
And what happened? The fundamentals survived. You had better space,
you have more resources, you had all of it. You
came in with you, you built the technology, own the
real estate.
Speaker 1 (42:31):
Like any thing.
Speaker 3 (42:34):
But when you had to go heads up against the
gathering spot, right, and when care was on the line,
your great facility could not outcompete the fact that when
folks walked through the door they felt like they were
at home. You couldn't out home us. And so respectfully,
I'm sure you get this question too. It's like what
(42:55):
happens X, Y and Z person comes into the market.
I I live here right like this, this is what
I do. This is the only job I've ever had. Yeah,
there's no way that, just purely out of entrepreneurial pride
that you think that. Again, like you care about this
from nine to five? I care? This is all I do.
(43:18):
I don't believe those short hours are are going to
put you in a position to out work or beat us,
and so that's what I meant. So I'm like talking
about that long but it's just like, but every entrepreneur,
especially black entrepreneur out there, no that you probably are
competing against someone right now that has more. But do
they right? That's like, like do they really at the
(43:41):
end of the day when it when it gets down
to just like pure customer relationship, if you if you're
if it's coming out of your heart, I don't believe.
So I don't believe they can beat you. And I'm
not trying to take away from the fact that somebody's
gona hear and be like, yeah, but they got more money,
they're building more of this that this is a long game.
(44:05):
This is a long long Yet there's a lot of
people that have built a lot of things faster than you.
It's not actually even that's not where you win. Can
you sustain? I'm looking at a decade right now. Again,
I've seen I've seen stuff start closing, restart. The founders
are on like their second third. I'm on my first
situation right now, and it's because I've stayed very, very
(44:26):
focused on a community that I love that you sometimes
like and we'll just be honest and sometimes like it's
even being generous. Yeah, that's the especially in this environment
sometimes like it's the nice way to say that, Like
we're being really honest. I love a community that you like,
(44:48):
you don't really care for, or at least you're not
willing to show that care, right, And like again, that's
a dangerous place for you to be in because if
you think that you're gonna out out play us in
that environment, Yeah, okay.
Speaker 5 (45:01):
Black Tech Green Money is a production of Blavity Afro
Tech on the Black Effect podcast Networking Night Hire Media.
It's produced by Morgan Debonne and me Well Lucas, with
the additional production support by Kate McDonald, Sayah Ergan, and
Jaden McGee. Special thank you to Michael Davis and Love Beach.
Learn more about my guests and other tech destructors an
innovators at afrotech dot com. Video version this episode will
(45:23):
drop to Black Tech Green Money on YouTube. So tap
it in, enjoy your Black Tech Green Money, share us
to somebody, go get your money.
Speaker 1 (45:31):
Piece in Love
Well, look you see in Black Tech, Green Money. So
good to be back with you guys.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
And I've been looking forward to this episode almost as
we started doing this podcast, so I've been waiting for
the right time to do it. So he's been like,
you know, he's one of my favorite entrepreneurs, but to
say the least, I mean he's an inspirational entrepreneur, a
mission driven entrepreneur, and ladies and gentleman. Ryan Wilson Gathering
(00:26):
Spot co found the CEO of Gathering Spot, which is
a private membership club, deeply ruty in community and culture Atlanta,
d c LA got communities in New York City, Chicago, Charlotte, Detroit, Houston,
all over the place.
Speaker 1 (00:40):
Brian, could that be.
Speaker 3 (00:42):
Hey, man, I appreciate you, thanks for having me. I'm
really excited to speak with you, and in deep respect
for all of the work that you've you've been doing
over the last forever, I.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
Feel, yeah, I'm trying. I'm trying.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
So yeah, I've heard you talk a lot about the
origin story of the Gathering Spot, and we're not going
to go there because that story is very well documented,
but I am interested in There was a particular frustration
you had with the lack of spaces for you know,
particularly black people with diverse, diverse professionals to kind of
gate connect and get inspired. And what has changed about
(01:17):
the landscape from when you had that thought ten ish
or more years ago to today?
Speaker 3 (01:22):
If anything, I mean the fundamentals of why we do
this work that hasn't changed at all. But I do
think that specifically this moment, what we do like it's
really really important. Right. I wasn't fully anticipating that we
would be in what feels at times like such a
(01:43):
strong backlash to really any attempt to be diverse, equitable,
or inclusive. And we knew from the from the beginning,
right that if we were going to do this, that
we were only going to be in the unity business, right.
But two, we were also going to make sure that
(02:04):
the values of trying to promote real deep connectivity between
people that ordinarily wouldn't they wouldn't have met, that was
going to be core to the whole effort. So I'm
as embolden as I've ever been in terms of us
just like needing to make sure that we do what
we do well because this moment really requires it.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
You know, Let's go in there, you know I wasn't
planning to go here, but you make me think about
why what's different or more important for the work that
you do to make sure that black people are uplifted
now more than it was even a year ago.
Speaker 3 (02:42):
Yeah, So look, I mean to be fair, like, our
existence identity, right, culture has always been contested in some way,
shape or form. Right, That that isn't a twenty twenty
five new fact, right. I do think what's new is
that it's overt and and direct in a way that
(03:03):
in some ways makes it easier to address right, but
in other ways because of of of just how how
specific a lot of different groups are being about not
wanting to see I mean, I'll give you a quick example. Well,
I had a I had a corporate partner a couple
of weeks ago say that they couldn't host an event
(03:25):
at TGS because of the company's rollback to DEI efforts.
And then when asked, well, like, how does hosting an
event at the gathering spot, which is a black owned
business and does have many black folks that call the
club home most of the majority of the of the
membership base, how how do those two things tied with
(03:48):
one of them? How Is this a DEI effort?
Speaker 1 (03:51):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (03:52):
Really, they couldn't explain, right. I think that there was
a quick moment of realization that like, ah, wait, hold on,
I'm I'm I'm not willing to engage the gathering spot
because I have been tricked into believing that engaging black
folks during this time is something that is that's wrong
to do. So that's what's new, right, Like, like there's
(04:14):
a there's a pressure that many people feel like exists
to not engage where they were willing to engage twelve
twenty four months ago.
Speaker 2 (04:25):
You know, maybe a question will come buy this, but
you have me thinking about something somebody told me one day,
you know, and this, you know, for the sake of
the audience. Like I've come to Ryan often because I
have a social club also, and so Ryan has been
super helpful to me just in helping navigate how to
do this thing. And so, you know, one of the
things somebody said to me a long time ago was like,
(04:46):
you know, when somebody these corporations joined, they're using their
DEI budget to do this because you know, whatever, however
they are doing it, I'm glad to hear I appreciate that.
And you got me thinking about something the Key talks
about doctor Key Horman and who said, you know, you know,
we talked to have a conversation about support and like
(05:07):
when people go to Kroger, I'm not necessarily supporting Kroger.
Speaker 1 (05:11):
They just have what I need.
Speaker 2 (05:13):
And when I go to Costco, I'm not necessarily that
might be supporting cop but I'm but that's.
Speaker 1 (05:17):
Not why I go. They have what I need. And
so to your point, like this is space.
Speaker 2 (05:22):
You know, it's a there's a bar there, there's furniture here,
there's a microphone, all the things that's here.
Speaker 1 (05:28):
So I'm trying to form a questions a by thinking.
So it's like yes, go no.
Speaker 3 (05:35):
I mean, I mean I think that that's the that's
the challenge, and I think that the the the pushback
right that we have to continue to have at this moment.
We have to we have to take people's values and
put that mirror back up and say wait, wait, hold on. Recently,
the type of conversation that we were having was this one,
and what I just heard sounds a little bit different.
(05:56):
Slat's a lot different from what we used to talk about.
I just want to understand, is there been a value
shift here because again, twenty four months ago, right, if
you go back to twenty twenty one, twenty twenty two,
some of these companies were falling over themselves trying to
figure out how to get to black, black consumers. And
then now those same same companies they don't even seem
(06:20):
to know like what any of those efforts were remotely about.
And I think that's just that's unacceptable, and it requires
us to again hold the mirror up and ask critical
questions and realize that, like, if there's anything that gives
me hope at the end of the day, the pendulum
is absolutely about to swing back. The math requires it.
(06:42):
These companies cannot meet their thesis if it doesn't, right,
So that's what's fascinating about, Like, is anybody looking at
the math here, right? Because this math equation that y'all
are promoting, you will not hit the numbers that you
have been talking about hitting without black folk and a
every other type of folk. You feel like, isn't isn't
(07:04):
necessary in the moment Again, if you look at your
P and L, you actually know that that statement isn't
isn't the truth? So you know, we got to weather
this storm. But ultimately will it be okay? Yes, it
will be okay. The math dictates that it has to be.
Speaker 1 (07:22):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:22):
How do you see you as a representative of what's possible?
Speaker 1 (07:26):
Because I think about it.
Speaker 2 (07:26):
I came from like radio, nightclubs, all the things, promoting parties,
all of that, and I think about and I don't
know if it's a graduation, but maybe it's just different.
Like you and I are in the hospitality, food and
beverage and et cetera, and it's different than nightclubs per se.
Speaker 1 (07:43):
How do you see.
Speaker 2 (07:44):
Your role as representative of we can play in this
space too. We can do retreat which we'll talk about.
We can do hotels, we can do these things, you know,
fashion houses versus just clubs and just nightclubs.
Speaker 3 (08:02):
I think that it doesn't matter what industry we're talking about. Fundamentally,
we have to continue to remind people right again. This
is where I love that we still celebrate people that
are the first to do things right. We still have
that's still in our culture A lot. Sometimes we're challenging
about some of those moments. Though, is that like sometimes
(08:24):
we're discussed it's a little bit ahistorical. Black folks have
been doing all of these things for a long time.
We've had restaurants, we've been in Hoteling, we built big businesses, right, Like,
those things have occurred, right, So a lot of times
what I'm trying to do is remind people that this
actually is not a new tradition for us. It's an
old tradition and I'm a party to be a prod
(08:46):
to be a part of that continuum. Am I contributing
new things? Yes, I believe so, right, But am I
the first to do some bit of this? No? I
don't need to be the first, right, I need to
be a valuable contributor to what I see again as
a continuum. But it's hard to become something that you
(09:08):
have not seen before. On the other hand, right, so
we have to address folks that if you're in the
community and you have not seen what I'm talking about, well,
it's very hard in any context to become that thing.
So I think part of our responsibility is to be vocal, right,
so the folks see that, like, not only are we here,
but others have been here. And if this is a
(09:29):
game that you want to play in, then come into
the you know, and come into what is a powerful
and rich tradition. But I live in Atlanta, and so,
like I, I hear from people that live other places
where I guess the day to day experience is maybe
a little different. But I live in a city where, like,
(09:50):
black folks have been at the highest heights of all
of it for a long time, right, So that gives
me a tremendous amount of confidence to know that even
when there are thing that I know that we haven't
accomplished yet, I feel possibility. It's more of a like
when is this going to occur and less of an if, like,
(10:11):
I feel really confident we're going to get there.
Speaker 2 (10:13):
So before we go much further, I want you to
talk about what Retreat is because I have a lot
of questions that may touch on it, and I want
to I used to know, like what you're doing now.
Speaker 3 (10:22):
Retreat is a new effort from us that's a new
club that's focused on hospitality and wellness and privacy. It's
sixty thousand square feet of the same things that we've
always had from a space perspective, right, So it's event space,
restaurant and bar and workspace, but with Retreat we have
a rooftop pool and just amazing all around amenities, right,
(10:46):
But part of our thesis in the first iteration of
teachers the original clubs, we were really trying to figure
out how to create an environment where people could work.
Workspace is a big part of the footprint in any
gathering spot plus event plus dining, right, But if you
(11:08):
if you're there day to day, the work and event
piece really kind of leads that really drives the experience.
It's the opposite here at retreat, the hospitality and the
relaxation less work, right, Like, we're not allowing laptops here.
If you go to the gathering spot, there's a ton
of laptops intentionally, right, So this is a a new
(11:31):
offering from us. We're being really intentional how we are
curating the membership. They're about one hundred and fifty members
and a wait list of like a thousand people, and
we're being very specific about how we continue to add
to that group, not with the goal of being stuffy,
but with the goal of making sure that the relationships
that are being fostered, because this is a very very
(11:52):
social experience broadly really meet the meet the needs of
the membership. Right. So I'm excited about it. Again. Footprint wise,
it's much larger than anything that we've done so far.
So the original gathering spots is twenty five thousand square feet.
This club is sixty thousand, so it's significantly larger. And
(12:16):
we've got three sixty views of the entire city. So
on one side you're looking at the entire Atlanta skyline. On
the other side basically looking at the rest of the state.
And that's the same side the sunsets on. So it's
a really amazing kind of view of the both the
city and the state.
Speaker 2 (12:34):
Yeah, how does the expansion into retreat kind of open
the aperture of the mission of TTS.
Speaker 3 (12:43):
So I've always wanted two things. I wanted our community
to have access to the best of whatever it is
that we're talking about, right, and so in this context,
it's space. I wanted our I want our community to
have access to the best spaces around. This is world
class space. We can go head to head with any
favorite rooftop that you have around, right, I mean, it
(13:03):
really is that sort of product. But the second thing
is that I've always known that right, people connect or
want to connect for different reasons right there, They're different environments,
and so if there's a meaningful community conversation that we
need to to host. That's gonna be at the gathering spot.
(13:25):
That's the tradition of any gathering spot, right to host
meaningful discussions where we bring everybody together. But if you
need a spot to bring your clients or to to disconnect,
right to just sit by the pool and be for
a second, that's retreat. Overall, though, as an entrepreneur, I've
(13:49):
always been inspired by the big the big companies that
are out there right. So what that means to me
is the same way that uh Hilton can have a
number of experiences or brands in its portfolio, or Marriott right,
or a car company can have multiple models and different
I believe the gathering spot over time can curate different
(14:11):
experiences as well, and so retreat is our first stop
and kind of a broader perspective of different experiences that
will host.
Speaker 1 (14:21):
Shifting Gear a little bit.
Speaker 2 (14:23):
I saw your posts that you had put up, you know,
I think it was today yesterday, and you say, you know,
this is my first job, you know, And I found
that like, you know, you know, I chuckled a little
bit inside sound like you know.
Speaker 1 (14:33):
My question is how did you learn to lead? Like?
Speaker 2 (14:36):
Leading people in operationalized things systems and hold people accountable.
How did you learn to do that?
Speaker 3 (14:43):
So I'm very honest about the fact that I started
my entrepreneurial journey with a huge advantage. Right. My parents
are entrepreneurs, Right, so I grew up in a context
of seeing seeing them in business and learn thing I
didn't even know I was learning just by being in
the house, right, I quick aside, But I remember when
(15:06):
we first started ten years ago. I was with a
member of our team and she heard me leave a voicemail.
I left my number, I sat my number twice at
the end of the voicemail. For folks like.
Speaker 4 (15:19):
Yeah, born in the olden ages like me, you used
to have to you know, you couldn't read the voicemail out,
so you had to say the number twice so that
people could write it down.
Speaker 3 (15:33):
Well, she asked me. She was like, well, like, how
did you know how to do that? Right? And I
thought about it and it was like, well, I've been
sitting in the car with my parents for years, and
every time my dad leaves a voicemail, he would say
his number twice to give them an opportunity to write
the number down. So I learned a lot that way, right,
But then the rest of it right, because you don't
(15:54):
pick up everything in the car the rest of it.
I have learned by being open to to learning. I
haven't been, and I'm not right now a perfect leader,
but I am a person that spends a lot of
time in reflection. I know and care about my team,
and so when you know and care about folks, you
you're committed to improving. And so I've just gotten better
(16:16):
at knowing how to handle different situations. You learn things early,
like the business goes the way that you go right Emotionally,
if I'm super excited about something, the business might be
really excited about it. But if I'm super not interested
or down, the business also can be those things too, right,
(16:37):
So like staying as flat as possible, right, that's something
that I gained through experience just in working with people.
But it's been a decade, right, So you know, if
you're committed to growth, which I am, you should be
able to look back over a course of a decade
of leading things a business right and being responsible for
(16:58):
people knowing that like, well, yes, this is the only
job that I've had. I don't expect this to be
the only job that anybody else will had, And I
want the skills that they're learning, the experience that they're
having to be meaningful and hopefully complimentary to whatever their
next opportunity is. Right, But I've always taken a really
(17:20):
kind of long range view of our relationship with one another.
I'm privileged to say our first member of our team,
she's been here with us ten years. Second member of
our team been with us ten years. Third member of
our team been with us nine years. Right, So, like
our core team has been together for a minute. But
there are other people that have come in a different
(17:40):
seasons in the business that are doing really amazing things
in other contexts right now. And I'm proud that TGS
helped to be a part as a part of their
professional journey. And again, I have a responsibility there. I
have to be a good steward of the time and
talent that they're playing with us.
Speaker 2 (17:59):
What is in Ryan Wilson's EBC your every day carry
like aside from your phone, Like, what are the things
that you know you wake up to lead a house?
Speaker 1 (18:09):
This is gonna be on you somewhere.
Speaker 3 (18:12):
So I have a backpack, which is not that exciting, right,
But like it's a mobile I could work from anywhere. Right.
My backpack has everything that I possibly need, laptop, tablet,
every charger that you can need, every adapter that I
can buy. I travel a lot, right. We have got
locations in different places, right, So as long as I
(18:34):
have my bag, I can. I'm good. The thing that,
honestly that I first thought about that when you said that,
And this is super not interesting, but it's been. It's
something that I'm trying to talk about more, especially as
this kind of has gone on longer. If you see
me these days, I have like a gallon water jug
that goes everywhere with me, and it's a part of
(18:57):
my daily daily habit, Like I don't leave the house
without my is it right here? Like time? And the
reason why I bring it up, I am prioritizing taking
care of myself much more than I did when we started,
(19:19):
Like I slashed, I didn't at all when we started.
I was. I mean, I look, the discord was different
when when we was ten years ago, right, so like
it was full. We were right in the middle of
hustle culture, grind out. I'm like, if I'm being honest,
I'm naturally built that way, right, I am a I
don't have a problem with working, but I'm prioritizing like
(19:45):
rest water. Yeah, just overall being a lot more overall
stronger than I did when we started. And again, it
wasn't even something I talked about historically, but like I
had been trying to to mention it, because you can
(20:08):
work yourself to and through these things right like and
and out. And I realized that I was on a
trajectory that was not sustainable.
Speaker 1 (20:19):
What is the best thing you have read or learned recently?
Speaker 3 (20:25):
The best thing I've read recently.
Speaker 1 (20:29):
Or learned.
Speaker 3 (20:32):
That's a great question. So I'm I'm a I'm a policy.
Speaker 1 (20:40):
I read a lot of like, let me ask, when
when are you running? Let's let's talk about that.
Speaker 3 (20:47):
I run early in the morning.
Speaker 1 (20:48):
But no, no, no, no, when are you running off
from last for office?
Speaker 3 (20:56):
Oh no, I've never run for office. I'm gonna go
back to what I've learned, hold on for I Look,
I saw this stat recently, and it affirms something that
I felt like I knew. But like when I saw
the stat, it was like, oh wow, eighty six percent
of all jobs are secured through a relationship.
Speaker 1 (21:17):
Okay, And when I heard that yeah.
Speaker 3 (21:19):
It's it's intuitive like in one sense, right, but like
and another it's like wait, wait, wait, At the end
of the day, any opportunity statistically that you're going to
get is through somebody that somebody else, right, that you
likely know or that that person knows. And again, I
don't want to overhype this number, right, but I think
(21:41):
it helped to continue to reinforce that the relationships that
we have every single day that we're facilitating with one
another really are the tail of the tape, that they
really are the thing that are going to determine a
lot of things that are going on in our lives
and are we investing in in meaning for relationships. A
(22:01):
lot of cool tools out there, a lot of people
liking photos of this, that and the other and engaging
with people online and look cool. I like those as tools,
but the relationship, like the actual engagement with one another
super super dope. And the last major book that I
just reread Range, which I highly recommend for any entrepreneur,
(22:24):
like highly highly recommend. It's It's David David Epstein's book
and they just talk. It basically makes the claim that yes,
entrepreneurs are really anybody like the most successful people are generalists.
They're people who know a lot about a little and
or no, I said the backwards a little about a
lot and that Really people who hyper specialize are the
(22:47):
ones that face the most challenges. People who like, are
you know, only good at like a particular thing. Range
again kind of makes the argument that like, no, yeah,
as well rounded as possible. Maybe it's another way of
saying that.
Speaker 2 (23:03):
So I'm not gonna forget that I did mention this
Ryan Wilson run for office, and you kind of really
fastly skated by that one. When I listen to you speak,
I hear a future pick pick one, you know.
Speaker 3 (23:19):
Sid that I really I don't. I don't even I
don't I have folks have said that to me before. Look,
we're having the engage in politics here, welcome have welcomed
over the course of years everyone from President Biden to
Vice President Harris on multiple occasions, to many city United
(23:41):
States senators and cabinet secretaries and folks all the way
down to school board like we've always taken civic engagement. Really,
it's a really kind of core thing that drives with
TGS is about I though true, that kind of how
I see my job at TGS. Like to be the facilitator,
(24:01):
the connector of those candidates to people that I know
and care about or to, or or being able to
have a platform in TGS that can highlight issues that
are really important to us. If I'm being super super
plain about this though, Like I also like being able
to say what I want to say kind of how
(24:23):
I want to say it. And I think one of
the early sacrifices that you have to make as a
politician is that constant negotiation of how to say this,
that or the other. Well, like my stakeholders are the
gathering spot community, and I'm really in tune with what
they think and feel about our work. But it's a
(24:44):
very different context than being an elected official. And in
this season of my life, I couldn't predict that I
would be doing this. I went to school to be
I was in law school graduate fro law school immediately
before starting TGS, so I did not imagine that I
would be an entrepreneur. I do not imagine running or
seeking office, but I always will be engaged because I
(25:08):
had a professor years ago say, you know people that
that that try to make the argument that they're not
politically involved, Like, what does that mean? It's all politics.
The way that we're having this conversation, from the microphone
that you're using to the lights that are that are
all both the rooms that we're in, it's all politics.
(25:28):
It's all it's all regulated and controlled in some way
or influenced by government. So it's our responsibility to to
lean into that rather than to act as if there
is some world that we can exist in. That's that's
outside of the realm of politics. Because again, I mean,
what world is that we're all We're all in it
right now?
Speaker 2 (25:48):
Yeah, you know you talked about your parents and the
influence they had even when you weren't even conscious that
the influence of entrepreneurship was there. You know, many of
us in our community don't come from entrepren oreo households
and so, but that doesn't rule those folks out. What
advice for people do you give when they didn't grow
(26:09):
up seeing this when they're not in Atlanta. I love
how you say, you know, like I'm in Atlanta. I'm
seeing this every day. We're at the Black pop were
at the top of everything, but most of us, just
by numbers, don't live there. Obviously, it's very dense. But
most of us are all over in communities where we
don't see, you know, black people at the highest level.
So in both those respects, how do you convince, advise,
(26:33):
inspire black people to be something that they have not
seen in their immediate.
Speaker 3 (26:39):
I'm going to answer the question that you just asked me,
and I'm going to answer question that you didn't ask
me the question that you did ask me. Look, the
people that you think have it all figured out or
know everything about a given thing, I can promise you
that they don't. Right this morning, I woke up trying
to figure out how to figure it out. Anybody that
(27:01):
you know in respect did the same, right, I just
at a like very fundamental level. Now, is there access
knowledge skill sets that are built over time? Absolutely? Right?
But and this is a fairly kind of old school value. Right.
But I went to Georgetown for undergrad and I believed,
and still I got to I remember being at convocation
(27:22):
and they asked all of the valedictorians and salutatorians to
stand up, and that was not me, And I remember
looking around being like, why am I in here? But
then we got into class, we got into the arena
and I saw pretty quickly that I was willing to
go to places that I was not sure that those
(27:44):
folks were willing to go to. All the valedictorians, all
the smart people. My mother had sent me up to
DC to get that degree, and I was coming back
home with the paperwork, and again, I know that I'm
willing to go to Like, you're not going to outwork me. Yes,
(28:04):
you started right with whatever advantage, right, but on a
and I'm talking about this on an individual level, right, Systemically,
there's some other things for us to address, But like individually,
I am not going to sit here and believe that
all of the good, big, fancy whatever, right, all the
(28:26):
all the cool stuff is for you, and that my
job is just to sit here and take the scraps.
So I don't care where I'm starting the conversation. I
just like I don't I fundamentally do not believe that fact. Now,
the question you didn't ask me is, and where I
think we need to spend more more time, is that
if you have some of that privilege, right, even a
(28:48):
little bit of it, you have a responsibility to make
sure that you are pouring into someone else that doesn't.
This morning, the they were having this conversation, I spend
time with youth. I regularly prioritize spending time with youth
to try to close the exact gap that you're talking about.
(29:09):
So I have less advice honestly for what to do
if you don't have it, and a ton to say
to people. When you do have it, you have a
responsibility to do something with it right personal gain for
the pursuit of just having it. One isn't that fulfilling
at the end of the day. And two, if you
(29:30):
can show up positively in a person's story as the
person that helped to make a difference. To me, there's
no higher honor that you can have in a person's life.
And so again, if you've been blessed to be a blessing,
then like please do so, like please please act accordingly.
And that to me is where we don't put as
(29:51):
much pressure often where we spend so much time on
the other side of the equation, you know, with all
these tips and tricks, when if we would take that
energy and to say, hey, cohort of people that again
have been blessed just by circumstance a lot of times
right had had this opportunity or that one go facilitate
(30:13):
at least one other person having it. And if you
disagree with me, I don't know much what to say too,
but I will say that I would urge you to
reconsider our community. Especially again, I'm talking on an individual
level right now. Systemically, a lot of what I just
said is you can't overcome some of the systemic barriers
that I'm talking about by working hard, right, And a
(30:36):
lot of my work is really looking at systems, right,
the system that we live in right now, the fundamentals
of a lot of aspects of that system. I'll give
you a quick one. Yeah, if you were born on
the west side of Atlanta, right, you have about a
four percent chance of escaping poverty. Said differently, there's a
(30:57):
ninety six percent chance that if you're born into poverty
you're going to die in it.
Speaker 1 (31:02):
That's right, Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (31:04):
In that same neighborhood, right, if you're if you're on
the west side of the city, the life expectancy in
Bankhead is ten years less than if you live in Buckhead.
That is a system issue. That that that that that isn't again,
that isn't the try hard that I just talked about.
From an individual perspective. So part of what we have
to be doing across community, but certainly people, if those
(31:27):
of us that have the access to to try to
alter some of these stats are circumstances that I'm talking about.
We have responsibility to do that too, right, and we
have to do it from the lens that like, I
live in this city and it's not helpful to me
as a citizen to have people that cannot escape socioeconomic
(31:49):
pressures that are just ridiculous and that and that ultimately
are causing them in many ways to die younger. Yeah,
that that that is not a city that is hopeful
for me to live in, and so it is again
important for me to get active about doing something about it.
Speaker 2 (32:09):
I've got two more, I think, and this one I'm
gonna ask you the question that I'm going to tell
you why I'm asking, and then I'm gonna let you go.
So this one is the question is like what did
you learn about investor alignment?
Speaker 1 (32:22):
So there's there's stories. Obviously you went through something a
couple of years ago.
Speaker 2 (32:26):
People can read all about the dy This is actually
not really about that directly, but it's more about the
alignment or misalignment and so we've often talked about when
you're going to raise money, you know, in our community,
don't just get somebody with the pockets, but get somebody
aligned with you know where you're trying to go. And
my question is the premise is, like, what did you
(32:49):
learn looking backward about what would you have done differently
to say, Okay, we might not be aligned on the
future here.
Speaker 3 (33:00):
I don't want this to sound like a cliche, but
it's just honestly how I feel about it. I wouldn't
have done anything differently, right, Like, you make the best
decision that you can as an entrepreneur when you can, right,
And so I just don't play the game with this like, oh,
if the set of facts that apply in twenty twenty
five applied in twenty twenty two are applied in twenty
twenty right, Like, well, those are different facts that existed
(33:21):
in twenty twenty two.
Speaker 4 (33:22):
Right.
Speaker 3 (33:22):
So like the back pattern fundamentally like drives the output,
like drives the decision, which drives the outcome. Right, So
I don't allow myself to get into a mode of
like I can genuinely tell you that I have always
made the best decision that I thought, Like possible. When
(33:44):
I was making it, it was. It was the best
decision at that moment, right, which again, maybe in hindsight
you could you could say, if I knowing what I
know now, I would But like and my faith, my
faith is very important to me, right, I don't believe
without that chapter of the of the business that I
(34:06):
would be having this conversation to you about this chapter.
I actually don't believe that that, like like, that season
was required in like like truly in order to have
this season. So for me to regret that would be
to meet to be I guess regretting this, and I don't.
I don't regret this. I'm excited about this the bigest
(34:29):
product we've ever had, right, So, like, yeah, now to
your question around alignment. Look, I'm fairly simple about this.
I call it the cell phone test. If when you
are talking to a person in real time, and this
is a potential investor as an entrepreneur, and if you
think to yourself, when I look down at my phone
(34:50):
in the future and their name pops up, how will
I feel about that when I see their name, Will
i'd be excited to talk to them? Will I think
that there's possible there that they're gonna be helpful or
they're gonna at least ask me questions and good faith
to try to make the business better, or are they
about to be a person that I really don't know
if I can stand And if you on the front
(35:11):
end answer that question, if you're being honest with yourself
as I can't, I can't imagine speaking to this person
long term, then do not allow them to invest in
your business. It's just a lot of times, as entrepreneurs,
your gut feeling about a lot of this stuff, especially
these things that are less quantitative. It's really just about
how you like Actually, how you feel about it really
(35:34):
are important. So I would encourage you to ask tough questions,
take risks. This whole thing is risky. Again. That's another
thing that gets brought up all the time. People are like, oh, well,
you know if you could do this, that this has
all been risk this has all been impossible in some way, right, Like, yeah,
it was a bit possible. Maintaining that was like so
(35:56):
to hype, to hyper focus on one moment and be
like what about that one? And I'm like that one
we just came off of COVID and you're asking me
it's all. It's all risky, it all doesn't make sense.
We're all trying to figure it out. Make the best
decision that you can right now. That that's all I got, Like,
do not play the game with this. There's no such
(36:18):
thing as perfect circumstance. You're not gonna have the right
amount of money or the right team or the right
You gotta do the best that you can, but what
you have with the cards that are in your hand
right now. And so I can tell you in sincerity
that I have always played the cards that I've had
in front of me out And in some cases I
(36:38):
looked down in my hand and I had four aces
and and like knew we were about to like like
run the table.
Speaker 1 (36:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (36:48):
And then in other times I've looked at my cards
and been like, we gotta go board and just try
to survive. Sorry if anybody don't play spades, Yeah, that's
part of the game. So you know, I don't know,
I don't I don't look at it that way. I mean,
it is what it is, what it is. But every
season builds on builds to the next and not some
(37:11):
seasons don't always end positively. I'm not even trying to
make this like some sort of rosie. Sometimes there are
negative circumstances, but if you talk to even those founders,
they will say, look, when my companies shut down, when
we failed, I learned X, and that helped me to
do Why that's who you're experiencing right now? Why without X? Though?
That's right, we're not in a conversation. So again, I
(37:31):
don't I don't. I don't mean for that to sound cliche,
but I just.
Speaker 1 (37:35):
Is real.
Speaker 3 (37:36):
We get caught up in the in the like trying
to quarterback decisions that were made long ago, and it's
like to what end? Right? I mean, we got to
do the best for where we're standing.
Speaker 2 (37:49):
For the second of people who have no idea what
even to Google search or look on Africa.
Speaker 3 (37:55):
We were acquired in twenty twenty two by Fintech. We
ended up reacquiring the business a year and change later.
It wasn't the best alignment for us as a company,
and we professionally kind of went in different in different
directions after that time period. Right, And so where the
question comes a lot of times is would we have
(38:15):
gone through that acquisition knowing what we know now? And
again that's out a question that I can really answer.
It was the best decision for us to make at
the time that we made it. And here I am
now coming out of that experience with the biggest project
(38:36):
that we've ever had that I do not believe would
have happened had we not gone through being acquired and reacquiring.
Speaker 1 (38:45):
Company Love It last one.
Speaker 2 (38:48):
And this is when I read this, I'm like, Okay,
this is in my top five goat entrepreneur quotes. And
you said it, you said, I think it was the
city life, see the life that that come some time ago,
And you say it, we will thrive because our competition
barely likes a community that we love. And I'm like, oh,
(39:09):
that goes on the wall. Tell me more about like
this the spirit behind that quote.
Speaker 3 (39:17):
Yeah, fundamentally, Like I love the community that we serve
every single day, and so you might have better a
lot of things, more cash, more space, more and better
investor whatever, right, But like, I don't believe that any
of those things are going to compensate for the fact
that every single day I wake up with a team
that is deeply focused on caring for our community in
(39:38):
a way that I don't believe that you're going to
be able to do because you don't care about them
the way that I do. Right, So look at the
end of the day that I mean, another way that
you maybe describe this is like customer obsession maybe is
the startup way to talk about it. But like I'm
obsessed with my with my customer, my member, my community
in a way that again, like you're you're just trying
(40:00):
to figure out you're having you're having going back to
our previous conversation, you're having DEI talks internally right now,
trying to figure out like what the strategy is going
to be. I've never once had a DEI conversation inside
of TGS, not like that, right, So, like I just
like we're fundamentally like coming into you are coming into
(40:21):
this game at a disadvantage if you're trying to go
get my folks, because again it's a strategy for you.
It's like this is like coming from my soul. So
do I think that you can beat me in in
like soul work?
Speaker 5 (40:36):
Nah?
Speaker 3 (40:36):
I don't. I never never will ever believe that, right
Like I like I and if I'm wrong, like you've
got to go prove that out to me, Like We've
got to go, like go play the game and go
see But I know deep down in places that you
don't want to acknowledge. Again, this is this is a
strategy for you. This is I'm not being strategic. I'm
(40:57):
not trying to take advantage of demographic changes like this
is coming out of like this, this is fundamental to me.
So like let's let's lace them up and see what
happens next. Right, But like I fundamentally think that we
win under under these it is to look at sports
and I'm sports person, Like it's like I'm playing at home,
(41:19):
like you're you're constantly playing an away game. Yeah, much
better you have to be than me at home to
be on the road and like win. There's a reason
why there's such a thing as a home team advantage
for a reason because like when you're when you're comfortable
in environment that allows you to create and and care
(41:42):
for for all of the things you need to look
at differently than like the person that is like trying
to get adjusted to the to the atmosphere. So yeah,
I mean again, we've been short stacked a whole bunch
of times against a whole bunch of people. I've seen
businesses come and go in this in this game. Respect
(42:04):
to them, right, but like a lot of times when
they would announce they have these big funding rounds, people like,
are you nervous, like nervous about what again? This is
a strategy for them?
Speaker 1 (42:14):
Yeah, I'm not.
Speaker 3 (42:18):
And what happened? The fundamentals survived. You had better space,
you have more resources, you had all of it. You
came in with you, you built the technology, own the
real estate.
Speaker 1 (42:31):
Like any thing.
Speaker 3 (42:34):
But when you had to go heads up against the
gathering spot, right, and when care was on the line,
your great facility could not outcompete the fact that when
folks walked through the door they felt like they were
at home. You couldn't out home us. And so respectfully,
I'm sure you get this question too. It's like what
(42:55):
happens X, Y and Z person comes into the market.
I I live here right like this, this is what
I do. This is the only job I've ever had. Yeah,
there's no way that, just purely out of entrepreneurial pride
that you think that. Again, like you care about this
from nine to five? I care? This is all I do.
(43:18):
I don't believe those short hours are are going to
put you in a position to out work or beat us,
and so that's what I meant. So I'm like talking
about that long but it's just like, but every entrepreneur,
especially black entrepreneur out there, no that you probably are
competing against someone right now that has more. But do
they right? That's like, like do they really at the
(43:41):
end of the day when it when it gets down
to just like pure customer relationship, if you if you're
if it's coming out of your heart, I don't believe.
So I don't believe they can beat you. And I'm
not trying to take away from the fact that somebody's
gona hear and be like, yeah, but they got more money,
they're building more of this that this is a long game.
(44:05):
This is a long long Yet there's a lot of
people that have built a lot of things faster than you.
It's not actually even that's not where you win. Can
you sustain? I'm looking at a decade right now. Again,
I've seen I've seen stuff start closing, restart. The founders
are on like their second third. I'm on my first
situation right now, and it's because I've stayed very, very
(44:26):
focused on a community that I love that you sometimes
like and we'll just be honest and sometimes like it's
even being generous. Yeah, that's the especially in this environment
sometimes like it's the nice way to say that, Like
we're being really honest. I love a community that you like,
(44:48):
you don't really care for, or at least you're not
willing to show that care, right, And like again, that's
a dangerous place for you to be in because if
you think that you're gonna out out play us in
that environment, Yeah, okay.
Speaker 5 (45:01):
Black Tech Green Money is a production of Blavity Afro
Tech on the Black Effect podcast Networking Night Hire Media.
It's produced by Morgan Debonne and me Well Lucas, with
the additional production support by Kate McDonald, Sayah Ergan, and
Jaden McGee. Special thank you to Michael Davis and Love Beach.
Learn more about my guests and other tech destructors an
innovators at afrotech dot com. Video version this episode will
(45:23):
drop to Black Tech Green Money on YouTube. So tap
it in, enjoy your Black Tech Green Money, share us
to somebody, go get your money.
Speaker 1 (45:31):
Piece in Love
Host
Will Lucas
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