June 10, 2025 • 35 mins
Vanessa is a Registered Dietitian Nutritionist and the co-founder of Culina Health.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
I'm well, Lucas and this is black tech, green money.
Vanessa was set out as a registered dietitian, nutritionness and
the co founder of Kaleena Health, which offers holistic, inclusive,
and evidence based nutrition care. The company's total funding is
over twenty million dollars, after most recently closing it seven
point nine million dollars Series eight just a few months ago.
In the past year, they've doubled their revenue. It's a
(00:23):
pleasure to be with you today, and I'm curious about
like the state of healthcare and how we take care
of ourselves when we think about what's happening with AI.
And you know, we used to just go to Google
and say, you know, what does this bump mean? And
all of these different things. But now we have AI,
which is kind of changing the whole landscape very much,
(00:43):
changing that landscape. What are you seeing happening with both
our awareness about how to take advantage of these things
and the responses we get with the technologies we use.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
Well, I think that AI, I don't realize saying I know, right,
it is benefit in so many ways. Right, we are
able to maybe detect breast cancer five years before it's
going to happen, and we know that early stage breast
cancer is on the ride, so that's an interesting prospect
for sure. But I think the thought that you're just
going to cut the human element out of healthcare is incorrect. Also,
(01:18):
the data sets that we have at this moment are
not on not reflective of like general population, right, which
is a historic thing. So I think there's that's that's
a gap there as well. How are we training these models.
I also think that like there's this element of like
we see commandeering digital health and looking for the flashy
(01:44):
thing and like the growth at all costs and like
things that it can be scaled like fast, and then
you know this is like you're crashing and you're burning,
and there's all these nuances and so you know, I
sometimes they have this friction point with my investors, not
so much anymore, but it's like, okay, like hey, what
are you doing? How are you doing it? Why can't
you move faster? And I'm like, well, because if this
thing burns to the ground, all I have with my
(02:05):
license and my integrity and that's how I can go
back and work into a hospital and at the end
of the day, I know that we're here for profit.
But my hope, at my want is to provide access
to the three hundred million Americans that need it the most.
And so if I'm doing that in a real way
that is measured and thoughtful and based on you know,
(02:28):
data and science and literacy all those things, then I
have to grow in this way.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
Yeah, that was a really interesting point there in how
VC is kind of the and census are misaligned with
what you need in healthcare. And I want you to
speak a little bit more on that because you know,
I grew up listening to people like Mark Zuckerberg talking
like move fast and break things, and you're saying like
that does not work when you're talking about health How
can you encourage venture capital, which you need in industries
(03:00):
like this to be able to fund the thing? How
do they have to look at this differently?
Speaker 2 (03:06):
Yeah? Like, so for myself, right, this is this is
a new attrition company, right, anterric company. We are registered dietitians,
We see patients one on one telemedicine. Are there places
for us to use AI and to grow faster and
by using technology and be more efficient and increased gross
margin a thousand percent? But is that just the answer? No,
(03:29):
that's not just the answer. And so I won't name
them by name, but you can think about other companies
that are like prescribing compounded GLP ones for example, and
it's like okay, yeah, like well look what they're doing,
or you're selling supplements, like why don't you do that?
And it's like, well, I'm not selling compounded GLP one
because we didn't do trials on semaglotide acetate or cemgleatide sodium.
(03:53):
And I'm in the business of providing safe care to
my patients and so I can't do that. And I'm
not going to give you supplement because maybe not everyone
can afford supplements. Right. That is a very elitt look, right,
And so what are the things that I can help
someone do? And I'm not saying you should have something
wins or you shouldn't have someone with but that's not
what my business model is. And so I think that
(04:14):
just like really understanding, like what is the goal. The
goal is to make people better. The goal is to
get people to come in see you, understand where they
fit in, and also collaborate perhaps with their physicians so
that we can get better outcomes. And so that's better
for the group, the collective, and then I think there
(04:35):
is the like the path to making more money, right,
and so just being like judicious about the way that
you see things and pouring more money on that instead
of pouring more money on what you've been pattern matching
for so long.
Speaker 1 (04:48):
Yeah, you make me think about this conversation we have
in our country about you know, how other countries might
have free health care and you know, we have to
pay for it here, and they may have better outcomes
because the food they get offered a better and all
these different things. As someone who's building a company that
also supports good health and positive outcomes, how do you
(05:09):
think about these things and are they also misaligned?
Speaker 2 (05:13):
I do think that they're misaligned. Like the fact that
you know, maternal leave is not just like a standard
thing here is really unfortunate. You're so stretched out, you
have the baby, you have to pay for the baby's
child's care, Maybe you're not able to nurse. Probably some
people are right. Like I worked and I breastfed both
of my kids for one year each, But I worked
(05:34):
in a hospital and I worked with dietitians and that
was where we were forward, so I had a lot
of support there everybody else. I mean, when I've worked
corporate jobs after having had a kid, I'm pumping in
a bathroom. What I can tell you my sister in
law who's an archaeologist and gave birth to her second
kid in Sweden. She was on a project for the
country of Sweden. She is not a citizen of the country,
(05:55):
and they put they paid for her maternity and I'm like, wait, wit,
they you don't even you're not a citizen of Sweden.
She's like, oh, I've ever been contract. I'm like, this
is wild, right like, And so because of that she had,
they didn't think about it. They were getting paid and
her kid was breastbed and she was, you know, exploring
Sweden and doing all those things. And then that give
(06:17):
you like peace and you can function and you're not
stressed out. And because you're not stressed out, you don't
have a stressed out baby. These are like cascade, cascading
effects that are beneficial, and we're just missing the mark
because at the end of the day, we're always like, oh, well,
how much money can we save, How much money what
is that putting into our pocket? You're like, right, but
if people's mental health is suffering, and they can't. Hey,
(06:39):
you could. You could save a lot of money if
you were supporting women in breastfeeding and making it easier
and letting them know that they could stay home and
they didn't have to have a pump, but they didn't
have to do this. And yes, of course, if you
don't want a breastfeed, that's all fine too, no problem.
But you're not even really giving people a solid chance
to do it.
Speaker 1 (06:57):
What is one digital particularly digital though in innovation that
you think could radically transform some of the issues you're
talking about with regards to our nutrition and preventative health
in our community.
Speaker 2 (07:09):
Yeah, I think that. I do think that AI and
describing and allowing for the clinician to spend more time
in patient care allows more relationship. Right. The dietician is
the frontline of healthcare, highly trained, underutilized. I sit alhole.
I sat along side med students, nursing students, PA students.
(07:33):
I taught the med students at SINAI. I have you know,
I have doctor friends that message me and they're like,
can you talk through this with me? Am I the
smartest person on the planet. No, but I've had to
see many different types of patients, Right, for a very
long time, right, And so because I talk to people
for an hour every single week and insurance is paying
(07:55):
me for that, I learn everything about them. And also
I am trained. When you and I are talking, I'm
generally I'm just listening to you and I'm asking you
questions so that then you tell me your whole life
story in three minutes, and honestly, in three minutes, you
know every single thing about you. And then I and
I understand also how you work, how you see the world,
because I worked in a New York City hospital. The
(08:17):
juxtaposition of placement of most New York City hospitals is
within the community. So at Mount Sinai there's the housing
project across the street. And then also I've seen all
of the celebrities you name them, I have seen them
walking through the hall, right, and I have to send
that same information. So I understand how you work, how
you operate, and get you to do things. And so
(08:39):
the more you allow for clinicians to do their job
and you compensate them properly, the better outcomes you're going
to get.
Speaker 1 (08:48):
There are hundreds, if not thousands, of influencers all over
TikTok and Instagram, who and yeah, I'm sure you've seen these.
You know, hey, you should not eat eggs, but then
the other one was like you should eat a lot
of eggs, and the other ones you know, meat is
killing you than double ones. You need more meat from
protein from meat, and et cetera. What are some of
the most because I'm just interested, here's like, what are
(09:09):
some of the most dangerous things? Is your dietician, what
are some of the most dangerous pieces of advice? And
you can even go with the sept highers, like how
we get that information? What are some of the most
dangerous pieces of advice you've seen pervasive on social media?
Speaker 2 (09:24):
I mean it is like it's the seed oils. You
can't have the seed oils. You can't eat meat. You
you have to be vegan. You you It's like hold on, yes,
being more plant based, Being plant based is better. We
know that we can correlate red meat to colon cancer,
processed meat to colon cancer. We can correlate all of
those things. So like, no problem understood that those studies exist,
(09:48):
But you're gonna tell people that they can only eat
plants like after Beyonce is Big movie, I don't know.
And then she she was vegan, and every single black
patient I had was like, I'm the and it's not working.
And I'm like, guys, you don't have Beyonce money. So
Beyonce's chef makes a grape tomato taste like chocolate, So like,
(10:09):
this isn't it for you? And let me show you
how to do it. Let me show you how to
do it. And so I think the problem with social
media is that you see you see these famous people
and you see them doing these things, and they're actually
not really telling you the truth, which is they are rich.
They are rich, so they have means to execute things.
(10:31):
Most people live somewhere in the middle. So what I
would tell you is, hey, you should eat mostly plants.
So what could that look like for you? That could
look like oatmeal for breakfast, a salad with chickpeas for lunch,
and at dinner you're having chicken, and so like, mostly
you ate plants today, and that's likely good enough. I
think when people talk in absolutes, it's very problematic. I
(10:53):
think the other problem is from my side, my governing
body doesn't protect my license, and so that allows people
to just come in and say that they know about nutrition.
Most Americans don't understand what statistically significant is. I've had
many patients at A patient wants to be like, did
you read this study that tequila lower's blood sugar? And
I'm like, what is the study? You send it to me.
(11:16):
So I look at the study and it was like
N of two. I'm like, that is not a study.
That's not even a hypothesis. I was like, do you
understand statistics? Everyone give it to me. Let me like,
let me help you understand this. And so it is
a money grab. And also because our license isn't protected,
you even see registered dietitians just talking out of both
(11:36):
sides in their mouths because they want people to know
who they are. I think there's this thing with dietitians
that you're going to be And I know this is
like very hypocritical because I am on television, I am
writing a book, but I'm doing that because they're making me.
It's like, you're going to be famous. You're going to
be on You're going to be on the Today Show,
and that's going to make you famous. And it's like
(11:58):
it's not nobody cares actually what I'm eating. They like
to hear me talk because I'm funny, and I give
it in a relatable way, but they're actually really curious
about what celebrities are eating and what new diet trend
those people are doing, because that is what we're looking
at every single day, and so that's where we are misguided,
misled like and it is it is a true it's
(12:19):
a true shame.
Speaker 1 (12:20):
Yeah. What I find interesting about you to a couple
of things. One like, you studied health care, but you
also have a strong business acumen, and that is not
something you get taught necessarily in you know, medical school,
health school, all those things. What is different about your path?
What have you been exposed to that gave you that
level of depth and proficiency.
Speaker 2 (12:43):
You know, my parents are immigrants from the poorest country
in the Western Hemisphere, and they both have advanced degrees,
and you know, my mom is a nurse and my
dad's an engineer. My dad speaks seven different languages, and
my dad was always hustling. Is like this black man
with an accent who is leaps and bounds smarter and
better than his white counterparts, and he had to figure
(13:06):
out this place in the world. And so I just
sort of watched that and that was interesting to me,
and I always thought about how things were built and
how they work and what is the reason behind that.
So I have like problems and relationships because I'm always
listening to the words that you're not saying or when
you say things that seem to me like you're projecting.
Is that because that's how you really feel? Or is
(13:28):
that like what is behind that? And so that's that's
that's how I felt, and I think also I'm also
interested in just trying things out. So I'm like, Okay,
I'm gonna try this out. I'm gonna see what works
and what doesn't work. And then it's like, oh that
worked and that was that was really impactful, so like
let's build on that. So that's sort of how Coolina
(13:48):
came to be. It was like, okay, like we know
how to be dieticians and we know how to build insurance,
and I like, lets say where are you go? This
is just like you know, all playoff our student loans
and you know it'll be fun. And then it got
it morphed into this.
Speaker 1 (14:00):
Do you you haven't. I don't know if it's still true,
but you have an all all female leadership team. We
have two men, so I think the question can still
be tailored for you. So what had what was powerful
about that when it was true?
Speaker 2 (14:21):
I think I think that there were members on the
team that were very like focus driven, like about the cause, right.
I thought that that was like okay, like we're gonna
like lift each other up and that that's very very good,
and we don't have to worry about performing to impress
a man here because we're we're going to get in
(14:43):
here and figure this out. And so I think because
we've gotten so far with nothing, we bootstrapped this tomorrow
and I put five thousand dollars in a bank account
and said, like, let's see what happens. I didn't owe
anybody any money when VC started geting me money, and
I was actually profitable when they came in. It wasn't
a huge profit, but I was. I was making money
and I was doing things above board and so and
(15:07):
it was working, and I was like, Okay, great, now
I'm just going to get a couple of people just
a little bit smarter than me to help me, who
maybe have done this before, to help me take it
to this next place. But I think we were all
committed to proving that we could get it done, and
that we didn't need like assistance from from a man.
We could we could figure this out, and we did.
(15:29):
But I'm wuch in all girls high school, I have
like it. I think of things like that.
Speaker 1 (15:33):
Yeah, how do you personally think about generational wealth?
Speaker 2 (15:40):
I think that it is a tricky thing. I've seen
a lot of this. I grew up, you know, my
parents being the immigrants that they are sent me to
all the fancy schools and we're like, okay, we send
you to the fancy schools and then you will be
you will have the same experience as white people, and
then white people will treat you the same. That was
(16:02):
not true. So that's where they messed up. I'm doing
something different from my children. But when I was in
no schools, I saw wealth. It's crazy. Well like people
people getting you know, Mercedes Bens on their sixteenth birthday
and crashing it that day and then getting a new
one and like it not matter, it doesn't matter, and
they're like wow, and like you can call your parents
and they'll write you a trick and that's really cool.
(16:23):
And so and I think that, yes, you want to
have stuff, you want to have enough money that your
kids always know that if something goes down, the kid
gets divorced, the kids literally their drus something goes down,
and they can always come to you. But I think
also you have to remember like, hey, no, you got
to do it on your own. And I think that
people people are always interested in how I talk with
(16:46):
my kids and how how I raise my kids. My
kids are like pretty autonomous. They're not perfect, they're third
Channel eleven. My eyes are very open. However, they understand
the rules of engagement. The rules of engagement are this,
you have a job. I have a job. Your job
is you go to school. You were kind yourself in trouble,
you learn. If there's something going on and you're having
issues learning, then I will help you. But that is
your job. And if you can't do your job, then
(17:08):
you and I are going to be in a problem
and you are held accountable to something. There are standards
here you don't get to. For example, my daughter, it's
a good student, but she's having a tough time in
math this year for whatever reason, and she had a
test on percentages and she was literally failing math. And
I'm not out here breading my kid telling her she stupid.
(17:29):
I'm like getting her the hell working with her. She's
also in a house stand, and so I come home.
She has you know, I only say on Mondays, what
are the tests? And they tell me and then it's
in my brain and then I just keep, you know,
mentioning it. But again, they have to do it on
their own. And so I come home and I'm like, Okay,
let's do a couple of problems. And she can't do
She's not doing them correctly, and I'm like, she's like,
I'm going to house stand now. I'm like, oh, you're
(17:50):
not going anywhere.
Speaker 1 (17:51):
I'm go anywhere.
Speaker 2 (17:52):
You that's two and a half hours. Please sit here
and do this. And she I was like, you have
a job, and she was like oh okay, and then
she got an eighty one, which for her is like
getting on so like so that that shows her and
it's not like Mommy is not going to bail you out.
I'm always going to dill you out, tell me the truth.
I'm here for you, like all of that stuff. But
you got to do a lot of stuff on your own.
And I think that is the same thing with this
generational wealth, Like yeah, you can get something that's no problem,
(18:15):
but you're not getting all of it and you have
to work.
Speaker 1 (18:18):
I love it. I love that it is obvious, it's
it permeates through you that you're passionate about the work
that you do. And you know, I would say it
seems mission aligned for you, and I wonder how you
balance that mission alignment with a scalable business model and
the need to build a scalable business model.
Speaker 2 (18:41):
Yeah, I think that that. Yes, our core is how
do we give access to the ninety nine percent? Great, Okay,
we're taking insurance, so like that's phase one, and like, okay, great,
we can go into employers and we've just signed We've
just signed a bunch of very big contracts that are
really exciting. And then more people will have access to it.
Think like one hundred and twenty members that buy on
(19:04):
the same platform every single day, all everything that they have, right,
and we we did that and that feels very good.
That's still an access point for people to come in
and get our service. And then okay, now there's like
more of the workforce. Okay, so now we think about
where do we get the quality people, how do we
train them, how do we put that all together? So
we've we've actually done it slowly so that we know like, Okay,
(19:26):
this is what works. We deliver it this way, here's
how we put in the automations, and here's how we
bring more people in, and this is how they have
to work with us. And yeah, that's not really exciting
for investors. But you know when all these digital health
companies fell away and we were still here, they're like, yeah,
you prout is the way, right, So like I'm actually
(19:47):
like not bothered by anything. I'm like, I'm running my
own race. There can be multiple winners at the table.
So we're gonna do it the way that we can.
We're gonna look at all the yes, competitors are raising
a bigger valuation and I'm over here like just maybe
a little bit small, but I'm getting these contracts and
these health systems and all these people coming in. So
we're all going to get there together. And there'll be
many different points where people can access this service. And
(20:10):
my job, my mission is also to go speak about
that and say like, hey, there are different areas for you,
like you can do it because I care about people
getting market share, and then for us, like it's it's coming,
it is coming, We're doing it and you know, we grow.
We've grown at least eighty five percent every single year,
and we grow at least ten percent month over month.
Speaker 1 (20:30):
It's remarkable. Kudos, who knows you?
Speaker 2 (20:34):
Thanks?
Speaker 1 (20:34):
Yeah, And because I think about the at least my
awareness of insurance support, payer support for nutrition, you know,
use in my at least in my acknowledgment of history,
like they'll pay for the doctor for sure, or the
best for the hospital, for sure. But the preventative stuff
was which backwards was an afterthought. Can you talk about
(20:58):
the marketplace shift that have allowed the room for coalen
health to grow in scale?
Speaker 2 (21:06):
Yeah, I think you know. Twenty twenty is COVID. It
was the biggest mental health crisis of our time. A
lot of money and mental like headspace was put into
making sure that people had access to mental health. And
then it was like, oh wait, we can do this
everywhere else, right, like this this is really great, and
(21:28):
so like, hey, we already pay for this. Insurance was
nutrition for care, you know, build by insurance was put
in Obamacare in two thousand and eight. It was the
first time that nutrition was built was built in and
so commercial payers were like, okay, yeah, let's do this
and we're now seeing like we've seen right, prevention is
it like spending more time with the patient? How do
(21:50):
we do that? How do we coordinate care? This is
the future. It's gone. This whole idea where like I
just go to the doctor and they tell me what
to do, Like especially for us, that's how we die.
So that doesn't work, Okay, So we have to be
we have to be informed, we have to be able
to ask questions we have, and we need to be
empowered to do that. And when insurance payers started to
(22:12):
see because we track data that and anecdotally they're looking
for twenty five hundred dollars of cost savings when working
with a dietician. And we have proof because we've been
tracking data since the beginning of time of like seven
thousand dollars of cost savings per patient, which extrapolated out
is like ten billion dollars in savings. So that's what
the tayer cares about very much. The health systems very
much care about making money. So you got to like
(22:35):
teach them, like talk to them in that regard. But
I think I think it is very powerful to see, right,
like I keep Lena Health keeps less acute patients out
of physicians' offices because we're tracking the data every single week,
and the patient is has lost twenty pounds but is
on METS Foreman, and their A one C is high.
So I say, I'm going to send the note to
the doctor, and I send the notes to the doctors
(22:56):
and then I say, hey, patient has lost twenty pounds,
A one C is still high. I think they need
an adjustment of medication format Foreman, And here is all
the data that we've tracked, and the doctor's like great,
and they increase the script, and then all of a sudden,
the patient's AEC digital blood sugar is going down, and
then ultimately the A one C is going down, and
it's like okay, great, awesome, perfect, this is what we want.
(23:17):
And we are making sure that patients check in with
their primary care physicians more than just once a year.
Because you come to us and you want to lower
a lab value, well I don't. I can't write an
order for you to get labs. So you can go
back and see your doctor, and then you can talk
to your doctor and then they'll send you back to us.
And so then that's how people get paid, and that's
(23:38):
how people get better care and it makes sense. So
it's this education piece, right is that people? Because you
just keep seeing on you know, on the internet, You're like, oh,
I have to buy this digital course for metabolic health
and lowering my cortisol and I'm gonna read this and
it's gonna work. And it's like you don't have to
do that. You can just use your insurance. I promise
(23:58):
probably have twenty six sessions and like maybe a twenty
dollars copae.
Speaker 1 (24:01):
Maybe yeah, yeah, what is in your EBC your everyday
carry your healthcare nutrition CEO? And I'm sure you have
something that you need before you leave the Houst apartment,
the condo, the brownstone, wherever you at. What do you
need daily just to make life happen.
Speaker 2 (24:22):
I actually have to write everything down in my head
when I wake up, and I have to write it
down before I go to sleep. And then that quiets
the noise, and that allows me to be more strategic.
It allows me to be less reactive. It allows me
to listen to myself and to look to myself to
(24:45):
be validated and not outside and so like that that
is the thing. And then like all the other things, right,
like you know, I exercise every day and if I
don't need a vegetable twice a day, I feel guilty
kind of thing. But that's but that stuff, that stuff
doesn't really matter because I do that, I don't drink
out the whol and I still got cancer in twenty
twenty three, so like that's not it. It's the taking
(25:07):
the time to think through you know you, who your
authentic self is, and like how can you live like that?
And so for me, it is very much therapeutic to
like write down all of my feelings and look at
them and then I don't I don't feel like I
have to be so reactive and so compulsive.
Speaker 1 (25:24):
So this is not just like a list of to do.
This is a journal.
Speaker 2 (25:27):
This is yeah, because like what's in my brain today.
I feel this, m h, I feel this because of this,
and this is how I'm looking at it, and this
is and I just write and I don't necessarily go
back and like reread it. I just get it out
of my brain. Yeah, so it doesn't spill out and
affect you when we're having dinner.
Speaker 1 (25:44):
Yeah. Yeah. How do you think about Vanessa's voice? I mean,
you own these big platforms and people listen to what
you have to say, And how do you when you
you talked about you know, your journaling, so you're getting
that the junk out or the good stuff out. You
need it all out, so you're not giving them things
(26:04):
that you don't want to, But how do you consider
your voice and the platforms that you have the same.
Speaker 2 (26:10):
Because I am committed to telling the truth and like
not changing how I deliver the message. I just this
is how I talk. I talk like this to my kids.
I talk and know, like you know, sometimes people like
it seems like you have a tone. I'm like, I
actually don't have a tone at all. I'm very clear
and directed and I've spent a lot of my life
(26:33):
trying to make people feel comfortable, and so it's not
a tone. It's me being really clear and direct and
not wavering from what's in my head because I'm not
here to make other people comfortable. And if you don't
like the way that I'm saying it, then you are
I'm not for you, and that's okay, that's okay. So
I think that's that's it, right. It is like just
staying true to myself. And then I think people see
(26:57):
that and they're just like, hey, I like that it
does feel like it's real, it's not BS, and so
like I want to listen to more and I think
that's how I probably have gotten this far.
Speaker 1 (27:07):
How have you learned how to lead a staff a
team of people? Like there's one thing again to be
trained to be you know in healthcare, it's another thing
to learn how to lead as a CEO.
Speaker 2 (27:20):
Yeah, Like I think first of all, you know, in
the beginning, when you have a startup, you're in all
of the shit all of the time, and then you
have to come out because you have to do other things, right,
Like my job mostly is you know, talking the mission
and vision of Kolina and a lot of fundraising. So
you have to be very comfortable with not not knowing,
(27:42):
not being in the weeds right that you have to
be very comfortable in it. Or you have to trust
the people around you that they understand that everybody has
a job to do. You're doing your job, and they're
doing their job, and they're going to inform you and
protect you and make sure that when you go out
to talk the vision of the mission, you are very
clear on that. And so that's the thing. And there's
like there's this ego part, like like, Hi, guys, I'm
(28:04):
a black woman, and so if I don't know every
single piece and I'm not in all of it and
I'm not controlling all of it, then what are people
going to think of me and what is happening? So
like there's all of that that lives there too, right,
And then also like the trust, like I trust you.
I presume you've you've done this before. That's why you're
sitting here. And I know that I've given you a directive.
I'm very clear. I think being clear is being kind.
(28:26):
Someone told me that once, and so I'm clear on it,
and you're going to go execute and I'm I'm really
not gonna be like telling you what to do every
single minute of the day, but I'm going to be
really watching very closely, and I'm gonna I'm gonna just
drop the things. Hey have you thought about this? Have
you done this? And then as time goes on, if
I see like, okay, hey, like it's not happening, well,
(28:48):
then you and I have to have a different conversation.
But this micromanaging thing or whatever is, that's not That's
not how I lead. I want people to feel like
they are supported and they can come to me, and
I do understand a lot of what's happening in the
day to day, but that's not that's not where I excel.
But if you need me to end here to do
something for you, then I can. And you know that.
(29:09):
It's like my kids. You need me to beview I'm
moving for you to tell me, but you got to
handle your life, handle your business.
Speaker 1 (29:15):
Yeah, and doing research at least and learning a lot
about you. I've seen how you are very adamant about me.
We need more people of color in this space, and
that more black dis h'sues, more black people in healthcare
working and not just taking advantage of the services. And
in that same vein like, how how do you think
we as black technologists, black people trying to start businesses,
(29:38):
black career minded people and professionals, how should we be
looking at healthcare and wellness and nutrition as a space
for us not only again to get services, but to
contribute and make sure we change the narrative.
Speaker 2 (29:53):
Yeah, I think I think some of it is on
the governing bodies. So like, for example, the barrier to
become a didition is really high, and many dietitians are
hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt and they're not
going to recoup that money very easily. And if I
have acumen in for sciences, am I going to go
be a registered dietitian or am I going to go
(30:14):
be a plastic surgeon? And so so there's that, there's
that piece. So the governing body needs to do something.
We at Koulina are doing our part right. We have
ninety percent of registered dietitians or white women. Only forty
four percent of our dietitians identify as white. We are
very deliberate about that. We have cultural humility training at
(30:37):
a regular cadence. We are very focused on having diverse
patients and diverse data sets. So that's that is, that
is not But I think also like VC needs to
invest in in this more and not the pattern match
(30:57):
like bro that' saw a white space like doesn't have
there are other group practices right that like, so, but
come in and give me money, right, give me money
and then help me move forward so that I can
help more people of color. Right, Like if you think
about there're three hundred million Americans, there are only eleven
million black women eleven point two million. But we know
(31:20):
that our birth rate is happening, So what's happening here?
Speaker 1 (31:24):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (31:24):
Well, and why are you also freaked out? Like relax,
we do, it's not even that many of us. Everybody
calmed down, so like that that is something then that
we should be putting dollars behind. What are you doing?
It's it's when I got breast cancer. Right, White women
are diagnosed with breast cancer double black women, but black
women have a higher mortality because they do not finish
(31:45):
treatment a lot of times because they don't feel seen
and heard by their physicians. I got the most excellent
care at Mount Siey Hospital because I had I have
an excellent surgeon and an excellent oncologist, and excellent friends
and an excellent, excellent reader reradiation doctor. But I also
work there and all those people are my friends, and
(32:05):
I leveraged every single thing. Every friend I ever met.
I was like, oh no, I'm not waiting three months
to get a biopsy. I need one in two days.
Was getting it for me, Like, oh, I mean when
the guy called me to tell me that I had cancer,
he was like, I also called your ob and he
was he stopped a plane that he was borning. And
we've made an appointment for you for this surgeon. You're
(32:26):
going on Friday at two o'clock. Right, That's what I'm
doing and my team is doing for everyone. And so
when people of color come in, my favorite patients who
were vegan and there the A one C was like thirteen,
and I was like, this isn't it Like okay, like
here it is, and that guy's like, oh, my A
(32:46):
and C is five point seven and I'm gonna just
walk my daughter's down the aisle and I'm like, yep,
that's it. So like that is what we're doing. That
is what I'm doing. I don't Yeah, we all care
about money, because you know, I don't want to work
for the rest of my life. I got that. But
like I want people to be well and feel empowered
and feel that they have value even when they don't
(33:06):
have a lot, and even when they don't understand a
lot and they're not afraid to go to clinicians that
don't look like them. I want to do that for them.
I want and we teach people how to do that. Right, Like,
you go and talk to the doctor. You're a doctor
with like very clearly with data in front of you,
doctor can't refute data, they're not. I'm going to because it's
(33:28):
right there and so and so. Then you're you're coming
from a position of power. And also, doctors are just
practicing medicine. Don't ever forget that. So go ask her
all your questions.
Speaker 1 (33:38):
Finally, what's the best piece of advice you've ever received
about building something from the ground up or that you
have for buildingsground.
Speaker 2 (33:49):
I think it's like, hey, you've never done this before,
You've gotten pretty far, keep going, and it's hey, if
it doesn't work, try something else, Just try something else.
You're doing more than ninety nine percent of the population.
I think it's very easy to look at this and
(34:10):
think that it's glamorous and it's sexy and it's so fun,
and like, that's not the case. And I also don't
think that going to work and getting a paycheck is
a glamorous and sexy and fun right a crisis all
the time. Everyone's doing hard work, right, stay at home
mom is doing hard work. Mama goes to work is
doing hard work. And I think I think that the
thing that I have learned is this, You're not unique.
You're actually part of a collective. You're all part of
(34:33):
a collective. If you've got that in your brain now
and understood that most people feel the weight of the
world and it feels heavy and they're struggling with things,
and you gave more people grace, you'd probably get farther.
Speaker 1 (34:47):
Black Tech Green Money is a production to Blavity Afro Tech,
the Black Effect podcast network in Nightheart Media. Is produced
by Morgan DeVaughn and me Well Lucas, with the addigital
production support by Kate McDonald say and Jayda McGee. Special
thank you to Michael Davis and love each. Learn more
about my guessing Other Tech Destructors an innovators at afrotech
dot com. The video version this episode will drop to
(35:08):
Black Tech Green Money on YouTube, so'll tap it in.
Enjoy your Black Tech Green Money, Share us with somebody,
Go get your money, Peace and love,
I'm well, Lucas and this is black tech, green money.
Vanessa was set out as a registered dietitian, nutritionness and
the co founder of Kaleena Health, which offers holistic, inclusive,
and evidence based nutrition care. The company's total funding is
over twenty million dollars, after most recently closing it seven
point nine million dollars Series eight just a few months ago.
In the past year, they've doubled their revenue. It's a
(00:23):
pleasure to be with you today, and I'm curious about
like the state of healthcare and how we take care
of ourselves when we think about what's happening with AI.
And you know, we used to just go to Google
and say, you know, what does this bump mean? And
all of these different things. But now we have AI,
which is kind of changing the whole landscape very much,
(00:43):
changing that landscape. What are you seeing happening with both
our awareness about how to take advantage of these things
and the responses we get with the technologies we use.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
Well, I think that AI, I don't realize saying I know, right,
it is benefit in so many ways. Right, we are
able to maybe detect breast cancer five years before it's
going to happen, and we know that early stage breast
cancer is on the ride, so that's an interesting prospect
for sure. But I think the thought that you're just
going to cut the human element out of healthcare is incorrect. Also,
(01:18):
the data sets that we have at this moment are
not on not reflective of like general population, right, which
is a historic thing. So I think there's that's that's
a gap there as well. How are we training these models.
I also think that like there's this element of like
we see commandeering digital health and looking for the flashy
(01:44):
thing and like the growth at all costs and like
things that it can be scaled like fast, and then
you know this is like you're crashing and you're burning,
and there's all these nuances and so you know, I
sometimes they have this friction point with my investors, not
so much anymore, but it's like, okay, like hey, what
are you doing? How are you doing it? Why can't
you move faster? And I'm like, well, because if this
thing burns to the ground, all I have with my
(02:05):
license and my integrity and that's how I can go
back and work into a hospital and at the end
of the day, I know that we're here for profit.
But my hope, at my want is to provide access
to the three hundred million Americans that need it the most.
And so if I'm doing that in a real way
that is measured and thoughtful and based on you know,
(02:28):
data and science and literacy all those things, then I
have to grow in this way.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
Yeah, that was a really interesting point there in how
VC is kind of the and census are misaligned with
what you need in healthcare. And I want you to
speak a little bit more on that because you know,
I grew up listening to people like Mark Zuckerberg talking
like move fast and break things, and you're saying like
that does not work when you're talking about health How
can you encourage venture capital, which you need in industries
(03:00):
like this to be able to fund the thing? How
do they have to look at this differently?
Speaker 2 (03:06):
Yeah? Like, so for myself, right, this is this is
a new attrition company, right, anterric company. We are registered dietitians,
We see patients one on one telemedicine. Are there places
for us to use AI and to grow faster and
by using technology and be more efficient and increased gross
margin a thousand percent? But is that just the answer? No,
(03:29):
that's not just the answer. And so I won't name
them by name, but you can think about other companies
that are like prescribing compounded GLP ones for example, and
it's like okay, yeah, like well look what they're doing,
or you're selling supplements, like why don't you do that?
And it's like, well, I'm not selling compounded GLP one
because we didn't do trials on semaglotide acetate or cemgleatide sodium.
(03:53):
And I'm in the business of providing safe care to
my patients and so I can't do that. And I'm
not going to give you supplement because maybe not everyone
can afford supplements. Right. That is a very elitt look, right,
And so what are the things that I can help
someone do? And I'm not saying you should have something
wins or you shouldn't have someone with but that's not
what my business model is. And so I think that
(04:14):
just like really understanding, like what is the goal. The
goal is to make people better. The goal is to
get people to come in see you, understand where they
fit in, and also collaborate perhaps with their physicians so
that we can get better outcomes. And so that's better
for the group, the collective, and then I think there
(04:35):
is the like the path to making more money, right,
and so just being like judicious about the way that
you see things and pouring more money on that instead
of pouring more money on what you've been pattern matching
for so long.
Speaker 1 (04:48):
Yeah, you make me think about this conversation we have
in our country about you know, how other countries might
have free health care and you know, we have to
pay for it here, and they may have better outcomes
because the food they get offered a better and all
these different things. As someone who's building a company that
also supports good health and positive outcomes, how do you
(05:09):
think about these things and are they also misaligned?
Speaker 2 (05:13):
I do think that they're misaligned. Like the fact that
you know, maternal leave is not just like a standard
thing here is really unfortunate. You're so stretched out, you
have the baby, you have to pay for the baby's
child's care, Maybe you're not able to nurse. Probably some
people are right. Like I worked and I breastfed both
of my kids for one year each, But I worked
(05:34):
in a hospital and I worked with dietitians and that
was where we were forward, so I had a lot
of support there everybody else. I mean, when I've worked
corporate jobs after having had a kid, I'm pumping in
a bathroom. What I can tell you my sister in
law who's an archaeologist and gave birth to her second
kid in Sweden. She was on a project for the
country of Sweden. She is not a citizen of the country,
(05:55):
and they put they paid for her maternity and I'm like, wait, wit,
they you don't even you're not a citizen of Sweden.
She's like, oh, I've ever been contract. I'm like, this
is wild, right like, And so because of that she had,
they didn't think about it. They were getting paid and
her kid was breastbed and she was, you know, exploring
Sweden and doing all those things. And then that give
(06:17):
you like peace and you can function and you're not
stressed out. And because you're not stressed out, you don't
have a stressed out baby. These are like cascade, cascading
effects that are beneficial, and we're just missing the mark
because at the end of the day, we're always like, oh, well,
how much money can we save, How much money what
is that putting into our pocket? You're like, right, but
if people's mental health is suffering, and they can't. Hey,
(06:39):
you could. You could save a lot of money if
you were supporting women in breastfeeding and making it easier
and letting them know that they could stay home and
they didn't have to have a pump, but they didn't
have to do this. And yes, of course, if you
don't want a breastfeed, that's all fine too, no problem.
But you're not even really giving people a solid chance
to do it.
Speaker 1 (06:57):
What is one digital particularly digital though in innovation that
you think could radically transform some of the issues you're
talking about with regards to our nutrition and preventative health
in our community.
Speaker 2 (07:09):
Yeah, I think that. I do think that AI and
describing and allowing for the clinician to spend more time
in patient care allows more relationship. Right. The dietician is
the frontline of healthcare, highly trained, underutilized. I sit alhole.
I sat along side med students, nursing students, PA students.
(07:33):
I taught the med students at SINAI. I have you know,
I have doctor friends that message me and they're like,
can you talk through this with me? Am I the
smartest person on the planet. No, but I've had to
see many different types of patients, Right, for a very
long time, right, And so because I talk to people
for an hour every single week and insurance is paying
(07:55):
me for that, I learn everything about them. And also
I am trained. When you and I are talking, I'm
generally I'm just listening to you and I'm asking you
questions so that then you tell me your whole life
story in three minutes, and honestly, in three minutes, you
know every single thing about you. And then I and
I understand also how you work, how you see the world,
because I worked in a New York City hospital. The
(08:17):
juxtaposition of placement of most New York City hospitals is
within the community. So at Mount Sinai there's the housing
project across the street. And then also I've seen all
of the celebrities you name them, I have seen them
walking through the hall, right, and I have to send
that same information. So I understand how you work, how
you operate, and get you to do things. And so
(08:39):
the more you allow for clinicians to do their job
and you compensate them properly, the better outcomes you're going
to get.
Speaker 1 (08:48):
There are hundreds, if not thousands, of influencers all over
TikTok and Instagram, who and yeah, I'm sure you've seen these.
You know, hey, you should not eat eggs, but then
the other one was like you should eat a lot
of eggs, and the other ones you know, meat is
killing you than double ones. You need more meat from
protein from meat, and et cetera. What are some of
the most because I'm just interested, here's like, what are
(09:09):
some of the most dangerous things? Is your dietician, what
are some of the most dangerous pieces of advice? And
you can even go with the sept highers, like how
we get that information? What are some of the most
dangerous pieces of advice you've seen pervasive on social media?
Speaker 2 (09:24):
I mean it is like it's the seed oils. You
can't have the seed oils. You can't eat meat. You
you have to be vegan. You you It's like hold on, yes,
being more plant based, Being plant based is better. We
know that we can correlate red meat to colon cancer,
processed meat to colon cancer. We can correlate all of
those things. So like, no problem understood that those studies exist,
(09:48):
But you're gonna tell people that they can only eat
plants like after Beyonce is Big movie, I don't know.
And then she she was vegan, and every single black
patient I had was like, I'm the and it's not working.
And I'm like, guys, you don't have Beyonce money. So
Beyonce's chef makes a grape tomato taste like chocolate, So like,
(10:09):
this isn't it for you? And let me show you
how to do it. Let me show you how to
do it. And so I think the problem with social
media is that you see you see these famous people
and you see them doing these things, and they're actually
not really telling you the truth, which is they are rich.
They are rich, so they have means to execute things.
(10:31):
Most people live somewhere in the middle. So what I
would tell you is, hey, you should eat mostly plants.
So what could that look like for you? That could
look like oatmeal for breakfast, a salad with chickpeas for lunch,
and at dinner you're having chicken, and so like, mostly
you ate plants today, and that's likely good enough. I
think when people talk in absolutes, it's very problematic. I
(10:53):
think the other problem is from my side, my governing
body doesn't protect my license, and so that allows people
to just come in and say that they know about nutrition.
Most Americans don't understand what statistically significant is. I've had
many patients at A patient wants to be like, did
you read this study that tequila lower's blood sugar? And
I'm like, what is the study? You send it to me.
(11:16):
So I look at the study and it was like
N of two. I'm like, that is not a study.
That's not even a hypothesis. I was like, do you
understand statistics? Everyone give it to me. Let me like,
let me help you understand this. And so it is
a money grab. And also because our license isn't protected,
you even see registered dietitians just talking out of both
(11:36):
sides in their mouths because they want people to know
who they are. I think there's this thing with dietitians
that you're going to be And I know this is
like very hypocritical because I am on television, I am
writing a book, but I'm doing that because they're making me.
It's like, you're going to be famous. You're going to
be on You're going to be on the Today Show,
and that's going to make you famous. And it's like
(11:58):
it's not nobody cares actually what I'm eating. They like
to hear me talk because I'm funny, and I give
it in a relatable way, but they're actually really curious
about what celebrities are eating and what new diet trend
those people are doing, because that is what we're looking
at every single day, and so that's where we are misguided,
misled like and it is it is a true it's
(12:19):
a true shame.
Speaker 1 (12:20):
Yeah. What I find interesting about you to a couple
of things. One like, you studied health care, but you
also have a strong business acumen, and that is not
something you get taught necessarily in you know, medical school,
health school, all those things. What is different about your path?
What have you been exposed to that gave you that
level of depth and proficiency.
Speaker 2 (12:43):
You know, my parents are immigrants from the poorest country
in the Western Hemisphere, and they both have advanced degrees,
and you know, my mom is a nurse and my
dad's an engineer. My dad speaks seven different languages, and
my dad was always hustling. Is like this black man
with an accent who is leaps and bounds smarter and
better than his white counterparts, and he had to figure
(13:06):
out this place in the world. And so I just
sort of watched that and that was interesting to me,
and I always thought about how things were built and
how they work and what is the reason behind that.
So I have like problems and relationships because I'm always
listening to the words that you're not saying or when
you say things that seem to me like you're projecting.
Is that because that's how you really feel? Or is
(13:28):
that like what is behind that? And so that's that's
that's how I felt, and I think also I'm also
interested in just trying things out. So I'm like, Okay,
I'm gonna try this out. I'm gonna see what works
and what doesn't work. And then it's like, oh that
worked and that was that was really impactful, so like
let's build on that. So that's sort of how Coolina
(13:48):
came to be. It was like, okay, like we know
how to be dieticians and we know how to build insurance,
and I like, lets say where are you go? This
is just like you know, all playoff our student loans
and you know it'll be fun. And then it got
it morphed into this.
Speaker 1 (14:00):
Do you you haven't. I don't know if it's still true,
but you have an all all female leadership team. We
have two men, so I think the question can still
be tailored for you. So what had what was powerful
about that when it was true?
Speaker 2 (14:21):
I think I think that there were members on the
team that were very like focus driven, like about the cause, right.
I thought that that was like okay, like we're gonna
like lift each other up and that that's very very good,
and we don't have to worry about performing to impress
a man here because we're we're going to get in
(14:43):
here and figure this out. And so I think because
we've gotten so far with nothing, we bootstrapped this tomorrow
and I put five thousand dollars in a bank account
and said, like, let's see what happens. I didn't owe
anybody any money when VC started geting me money, and
I was actually profitable when they came in. It wasn't
a huge profit, but I was. I was making money
and I was doing things above board and so and
(15:07):
it was working, and I was like, Okay, great, now
I'm just going to get a couple of people just
a little bit smarter than me to help me, who
maybe have done this before, to help me take it
to this next place. But I think we were all
committed to proving that we could get it done, and
that we didn't need like assistance from from a man.
We could we could figure this out, and we did.
(15:29):
But I'm wuch in all girls high school, I have
like it. I think of things like that.
Speaker 1 (15:33):
Yeah, how do you personally think about generational wealth?
Speaker 2 (15:40):
I think that it is a tricky thing. I've seen
a lot of this. I grew up, you know, my
parents being the immigrants that they are sent me to
all the fancy schools and we're like, okay, we send
you to the fancy schools and then you will be
you will have the same experience as white people, and
then white people will treat you the same. That was
(16:02):
not true. So that's where they messed up. I'm doing
something different from my children. But when I was in
no schools, I saw wealth. It's crazy. Well like people
people getting you know, Mercedes Bens on their sixteenth birthday
and crashing it that day and then getting a new
one and like it not matter, it doesn't matter, and
they're like wow, and like you can call your parents
and they'll write you a trick and that's really cool.
(16:23):
And so and I think that, yes, you want to
have stuff, you want to have enough money that your
kids always know that if something goes down, the kid
gets divorced, the kids literally their drus something goes down,
and they can always come to you. But I think
also you have to remember like, hey, no, you got
to do it on your own. And I think that
people people are always interested in how I talk with
(16:46):
my kids and how how I raise my kids. My
kids are like pretty autonomous. They're not perfect, they're third
Channel eleven. My eyes are very open. However, they understand
the rules of engagement. The rules of engagement are this,
you have a job. I have a job. Your job
is you go to school. You were kind yourself in trouble,
you learn. If there's something going on and you're having
issues learning, then I will help you. But that is
your job. And if you can't do your job, then
(17:08):
you and I are going to be in a problem
and you are held accountable to something. There are standards
here you don't get to. For example, my daughter, it's
a good student, but she's having a tough time in
math this year for whatever reason, and she had a
test on percentages and she was literally failing math. And
I'm not out here breading my kid telling her she stupid.
(17:29):
I'm like getting her the hell working with her. She's
also in a house stand, and so I come home.
She has you know, I only say on Mondays, what
are the tests? And they tell me and then it's
in my brain and then I just keep, you know,
mentioning it. But again, they have to do it on
their own. And so I come home and I'm like, Okay,
let's do a couple of problems. And she can't do
She's not doing them correctly, and I'm like, she's like,
I'm going to house stand now. I'm like, oh, you're
(17:50):
not going anywhere.
Speaker 1 (17:51):
I'm go anywhere.
Speaker 2 (17:52):
You that's two and a half hours. Please sit here
and do this. And she I was like, you have
a job, and she was like oh okay, and then
she got an eighty one, which for her is like
getting on so like so that that shows her and
it's not like Mommy is not going to bail you out.
I'm always going to dill you out, tell me the truth.
I'm here for you, like all of that stuff. But
you got to do a lot of stuff on your own.
And I think that is the same thing with this
generational wealth, Like yeah, you can get something that's no problem,
(18:15):
but you're not getting all of it and you have
to work.
Speaker 1 (18:18):
I love it. I love that it is obvious, it's
it permeates through you that you're passionate about the work
that you do. And you know, I would say it
seems mission aligned for you, and I wonder how you
balance that mission alignment with a scalable business model and
the need to build a scalable business model.
Speaker 2 (18:41):
Yeah, I think that that. Yes, our core is how
do we give access to the ninety nine percent? Great, Okay,
we're taking insurance, so like that's phase one, and like, okay, great,
we can go into employers and we've just signed We've
just signed a bunch of very big contracts that are
really exciting. And then more people will have access to it.
Think like one hundred and twenty members that buy on
(19:04):
the same platform every single day, all everything that they have, right,
and we we did that and that feels very good.
That's still an access point for people to come in
and get our service. And then okay, now there's like
more of the workforce. Okay, so now we think about
where do we get the quality people, how do we
train them, how do we put that all together? So
we've we've actually done it slowly so that we know like, Okay,
(19:26):
this is what works. We deliver it this way, here's
how we put in the automations, and here's how we
bring more people in, and this is how they have
to work with us. And yeah, that's not really exciting
for investors. But you know when all these digital health
companies fell away and we were still here, they're like, yeah,
you prout is the way, right, So like I'm actually
(19:47):
like not bothered by anything. I'm like, I'm running my
own race. There can be multiple winners at the table.
So we're gonna do it the way that we can.
We're gonna look at all the yes, competitors are raising
a bigger valuation and I'm over here like just maybe
a little bit small, but I'm getting these contracts and
these health systems and all these people coming in. So
we're all going to get there together. And there'll be
many different points where people can access this service. And
(20:10):
my job, my mission is also to go speak about
that and say like, hey, there are different areas for you,
like you can do it because I care about people
getting market share, and then for us, like it's it's coming,
it is coming, We're doing it and you know, we grow.
We've grown at least eighty five percent every single year,
and we grow at least ten percent month over month.
Speaker 1 (20:30):
It's remarkable. Kudos, who knows you?
Speaker 2 (20:34):
Thanks?
Speaker 1 (20:34):
Yeah, And because I think about the at least my
awareness of insurance support, payer support for nutrition, you know,
use in my at least in my acknowledgment of history,
like they'll pay for the doctor for sure, or the
best for the hospital, for sure. But the preventative stuff
was which backwards was an afterthought. Can you talk about
(20:58):
the marketplace shift that have allowed the room for coalen
health to grow in scale?
Speaker 2 (21:06):
Yeah, I think you know. Twenty twenty is COVID. It
was the biggest mental health crisis of our time. A
lot of money and mental like headspace was put into
making sure that people had access to mental health. And
then it was like, oh wait, we can do this
everywhere else, right, like this this is really great, and
(21:28):
so like, hey, we already pay for this. Insurance was
nutrition for care, you know, build by insurance was put
in Obamacare in two thousand and eight. It was the
first time that nutrition was built was built in and
so commercial payers were like, okay, yeah, let's do this
and we're now seeing like we've seen right, prevention is
it like spending more time with the patient? How do
(21:50):
we do that? How do we coordinate care? This is
the future. It's gone. This whole idea where like I
just go to the doctor and they tell me what
to do, Like especially for us, that's how we die.
So that doesn't work, Okay, So we have to be
we have to be informed, we have to be able
to ask questions we have, and we need to be
empowered to do that. And when insurance payers started to
(22:12):
see because we track data that and anecdotally they're looking
for twenty five hundred dollars of cost savings when working
with a dietician. And we have proof because we've been
tracking data since the beginning of time of like seven
thousand dollars of cost savings per patient, which extrapolated out
is like ten billion dollars in savings. So that's what
the tayer cares about very much. The health systems very
much care about making money. So you got to like
(22:35):
teach them, like talk to them in that regard. But
I think I think it is very powerful to see, right,
like I keep Lena Health keeps less acute patients out
of physicians' offices because we're tracking the data every single week,
and the patient is has lost twenty pounds but is
on METS Foreman, and their A one C is high.
So I say, I'm going to send the note to
the doctor, and I send the notes to the doctors
(22:56):
and then I say, hey, patient has lost twenty pounds,
A one C is still high. I think they need
an adjustment of medication format Foreman, And here is all
the data that we've tracked, and the doctor's like great,
and they increase the script, and then all of a sudden,
the patient's AEC digital blood sugar is going down, and
then ultimately the A one C is going down, and
it's like okay, great, awesome, perfect, this is what we want.
(23:17):
And we are making sure that patients check in with
their primary care physicians more than just once a year.
Because you come to us and you want to lower
a lab value, well I don't. I can't write an
order for you to get labs. So you can go
back and see your doctor, and then you can talk
to your doctor and then they'll send you back to us.
And so then that's how people get paid, and that's
(23:38):
how people get better care and it makes sense. So
it's this education piece, right is that people? Because you
just keep seeing on you know, on the internet, You're like, oh,
I have to buy this digital course for metabolic health
and lowering my cortisol and I'm gonna read this and
it's gonna work. And it's like you don't have to
do that. You can just use your insurance. I promise
(23:58):
probably have twenty six sessions and like maybe a twenty
dollars copae.
Speaker 1 (24:01):
Maybe yeah, yeah, what is in your EBC your everyday
carry your healthcare nutrition CEO? And I'm sure you have
something that you need before you leave the Houst apartment,
the condo, the brownstone, wherever you at. What do you
need daily just to make life happen.
Speaker 2 (24:22):
I actually have to write everything down in my head
when I wake up, and I have to write it
down before I go to sleep. And then that quiets
the noise, and that allows me to be more strategic.
It allows me to be less reactive. It allows me
to listen to myself and to look to myself to
(24:45):
be validated and not outside and so like that that
is the thing. And then like all the other things, right,
like you know, I exercise every day and if I
don't need a vegetable twice a day, I feel guilty
kind of thing. But that's but that stuff, that stuff
doesn't really matter because I do that, I don't drink
out the whol and I still got cancer in twenty
twenty three, so like that's not it. It's the taking
(25:07):
the time to think through you know you, who your
authentic self is, and like how can you live like that?
And so for me, it is very much therapeutic to
like write down all of my feelings and look at
them and then I don't I don't feel like I
have to be so reactive and so compulsive.
Speaker 1 (25:24):
So this is not just like a list of to do.
This is a journal.
Speaker 2 (25:27):
This is yeah, because like what's in my brain today.
I feel this, m h, I feel this because of this,
and this is how I'm looking at it, and this
is and I just write and I don't necessarily go
back and like reread it. I just get it out
of my brain. Yeah, so it doesn't spill out and
affect you when we're having dinner.
Speaker 1 (25:44):
Yeah. Yeah. How do you think about Vanessa's voice? I mean,
you own these big platforms and people listen to what
you have to say, And how do you when you
you talked about you know, your journaling, so you're getting
that the junk out or the good stuff out. You
need it all out, so you're not giving them things
(26:04):
that you don't want to, But how do you consider
your voice and the platforms that you have the same.
Speaker 2 (26:10):
Because I am committed to telling the truth and like
not changing how I deliver the message. I just this
is how I talk. I talk like this to my kids.
I talk and know, like you know, sometimes people like
it seems like you have a tone. I'm like, I
actually don't have a tone at all. I'm very clear
and directed and I've spent a lot of my life
(26:33):
trying to make people feel comfortable, and so it's not
a tone. It's me being really clear and direct and
not wavering from what's in my head because I'm not
here to make other people comfortable. And if you don't
like the way that I'm saying it, then you are
I'm not for you, and that's okay, that's okay. So
I think that's that's it, right. It is like just
staying true to myself. And then I think people see
(26:57):
that and they're just like, hey, I like that it
does feel like it's real, it's not BS, and so
like I want to listen to more and I think
that's how I probably have gotten this far.
Speaker 1 (27:07):
How have you learned how to lead a staff a
team of people? Like there's one thing again to be
trained to be you know in healthcare, it's another thing
to learn how to lead as a CEO.
Speaker 2 (27:20):
Yeah, Like I think first of all, you know, in
the beginning, when you have a startup, you're in all
of the shit all of the time, and then you
have to come out because you have to do other things, right,
Like my job mostly is you know, talking the mission
and vision of Kolina and a lot of fundraising. So
you have to be very comfortable with not not knowing,
(27:42):
not being in the weeds right that you have to
be very comfortable in it. Or you have to trust
the people around you that they understand that everybody has
a job to do. You're doing your job, and they're
doing their job, and they're going to inform you and
protect you and make sure that when you go out
to talk the vision of the mission, you are very
clear on that. And so that's the thing. And there's
like there's this ego part, like like, Hi, guys, I'm
(28:04):
a black woman, and so if I don't know every
single piece and I'm not in all of it and
I'm not controlling all of it, then what are people
going to think of me and what is happening? So
like there's all of that that lives there too, right,
And then also like the trust, like I trust you.
I presume you've you've done this before. That's why you're
sitting here. And I know that I've given you a directive.
I'm very clear. I think being clear is being kind.
(28:26):
Someone told me that once, and so I'm clear on it,
and you're going to go execute and I'm I'm really
not gonna be like telling you what to do every
single minute of the day, but I'm going to be
really watching very closely, and I'm gonna I'm gonna just
drop the things. Hey have you thought about this? Have
you done this? And then as time goes on, if
I see like, okay, hey, like it's not happening, well,
(28:48):
then you and I have to have a different conversation.
But this micromanaging thing or whatever is, that's not That's
not how I lead. I want people to feel like
they are supported and they can come to me, and
I do understand a lot of what's happening in the
day to day, but that's not that's not where I excel.
But if you need me to end here to do
something for you, then I can. And you know that.
(29:09):
It's like my kids. You need me to beview I'm
moving for you to tell me, but you got to
handle your life, handle your business.
Speaker 1 (29:15):
Yeah, and doing research at least and learning a lot
about you. I've seen how you are very adamant about me.
We need more people of color in this space, and
that more black dis h'sues, more black people in healthcare
working and not just taking advantage of the services. And
in that same vein like, how how do you think
we as black technologists, black people trying to start businesses,
(29:38):
black career minded people and professionals, how should we be
looking at healthcare and wellness and nutrition as a space
for us not only again to get services, but to
contribute and make sure we change the narrative.
Speaker 2 (29:53):
Yeah, I think I think some of it is on
the governing bodies. So like, for example, the barrier to
become a didition is really high, and many dietitians are
hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt and they're not
going to recoup that money very easily. And if I
have acumen in for sciences, am I going to go
be a registered dietitian or am I going to go
(30:14):
be a plastic surgeon? And so so there's that, there's
that piece. So the governing body needs to do something.
We at Koulina are doing our part right. We have
ninety percent of registered dietitians or white women. Only forty
four percent of our dietitians identify as white. We are
very deliberate about that. We have cultural humility training at
(30:37):
a regular cadence. We are very focused on having diverse
patients and diverse data sets. So that's that is, that
is not But I think also like VC needs to
invest in in this more and not the pattern match
(30:57):
like bro that' saw a white space like doesn't have
there are other group practices right that like, so, but
come in and give me money, right, give me money
and then help me move forward so that I can
help more people of color. Right, Like if you think
about there're three hundred million Americans, there are only eleven
million black women eleven point two million. But we know
(31:20):
that our birth rate is happening, So what's happening here?
Speaker 1 (31:24):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (31:24):
Well, and why are you also freaked out? Like relax,
we do, it's not even that many of us. Everybody
calmed down, so like that that is something then that
we should be putting dollars behind. What are you doing?
It's it's when I got breast cancer. Right, White women
are diagnosed with breast cancer double black women, but black
women have a higher mortality because they do not finish
(31:45):
treatment a lot of times because they don't feel seen
and heard by their physicians. I got the most excellent
care at Mount Siey Hospital because I had I have
an excellent surgeon and an excellent oncologist, and excellent friends
and an excellent, excellent reader reradiation doctor. But I also
work there and all those people are my friends, and
(32:05):
I leveraged every single thing. Every friend I ever met.
I was like, oh no, I'm not waiting three months
to get a biopsy. I need one in two days.
Was getting it for me, Like, oh, I mean when
the guy called me to tell me that I had cancer,
he was like, I also called your ob and he
was he stopped a plane that he was borning. And
we've made an appointment for you for this surgeon. You're
(32:26):
going on Friday at two o'clock. Right, That's what I'm
doing and my team is doing for everyone. And so
when people of color come in, my favorite patients who
were vegan and there the A one C was like thirteen,
and I was like, this isn't it Like okay, like
here it is, and that guy's like, oh, my A
(32:46):
and C is five point seven and I'm gonna just
walk my daughter's down the aisle and I'm like, yep,
that's it. So like that is what we're doing. That
is what I'm doing. I don't Yeah, we all care
about money, because you know, I don't want to work
for the rest of my life. I got that. But
like I want people to be well and feel empowered
and feel that they have value even when they don't
(33:06):
have a lot, and even when they don't understand a
lot and they're not afraid to go to clinicians that
don't look like them. I want to do that for them.
I want and we teach people how to do that. Right, Like,
you go and talk to the doctor. You're a doctor
with like very clearly with data in front of you,
doctor can't refute data, they're not. I'm going to because it's
(33:28):
right there and so and so. Then you're you're coming
from a position of power. And also, doctors are just
practicing medicine. Don't ever forget that. So go ask her
all your questions.
Speaker 1 (33:38):
Finally, what's the best piece of advice you've ever received
about building something from the ground up or that you
have for buildingsground.
Speaker 2 (33:49):
I think it's like, hey, you've never done this before,
You've gotten pretty far, keep going, and it's hey, if
it doesn't work, try something else, Just try something else.
You're doing more than ninety nine percent of the population.
I think it's very easy to look at this and
(34:10):
think that it's glamorous and it's sexy and it's so fun,
and like, that's not the case. And I also don't
think that going to work and getting a paycheck is
a glamorous and sexy and fun right a crisis all
the time. Everyone's doing hard work, right, stay at home
mom is doing hard work. Mama goes to work is
doing hard work. And I think I think that the
thing that I have learned is this, You're not unique.
You're actually part of a collective. You're all part of
(34:33):
a collective. If you've got that in your brain now
and understood that most people feel the weight of the
world and it feels heavy and they're struggling with things,
and you gave more people grace, you'd probably get farther.
Speaker 1 (34:47):
Black Tech Green Money is a production to Blavity Afro Tech,
the Black Effect podcast network in Nightheart Media. Is produced
by Morgan DeVaughn and me Well Lucas, with the addigital
production support by Kate McDonald say and Jayda McGee. Special
thank you to Michael Davis and love each. Learn more
about my guessing Other Tech Destructors an innovators at afrotech
dot com. The video version this episode will drop to
(35:08):
Black Tech Green Money on YouTube, so'll tap it in.
Enjoy your Black Tech Green Money, Share us with somebody,
Go get your money, Peace and love,
Host
Will Lucas
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