October 28, 2025 • 35 mins
Throwback Episode as we're at AfroTech this week. A classic with Vanessa Rissetto who is a Registered Dietitian Nutritionist and the co-founder of Culina Health.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
It's a pleasure to be with you today. And I'm
curious about like the state of healthcare and how we
take care of ourselves when we think about what's happening
with AI, and you know, we used to just go
to Google and say, you know, what does this bump mean?
And all of these different things, But now we have AI,
which is kind of changing the whole landscape very much,
(00:20):
changing that landscape. What are you seeing happening with both
our awareness about how to take advantage of these things
and the responses we get with the technologies we use.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
Well, I think that AI.
Speaker 3 (00:33):
I think I know right, it is beneficial in so
many ways. Right, we are able to maybe detect breast
cancer five years before it's going to happen, and we
know that early stage breast cancer is on the ride.
So that's an interesting prospect for sure. But I think
the thought that you're just going to cut the human
element out of healthcare is incorrect. Also, the data sets
(00:56):
that we have at this moment are not on not
reflective of like general population, right, which is a historic thing.
So I think there's that's that's a gap there as well.
How are we training these models? I also think that
like there's this element of like we see commandeering digital
(01:17):
health and looking for the flashy thing and like the
growth at all costs and like things that it can
be scaled like fast, and then you know this is
like you're crashing and you're burning, and there's all these
nuances and so you know, sometimes they have this friction
point with my investor. It's not so much anymore, but
it's like okay, like hey, what are you doing, How
(01:38):
are you doing it?
Speaker 2 (01:38):
Why can't you move faster?
Speaker 3 (01:39):
And I'm like, well, because if this thing burns to
the ground, all I have with my license and my integrity,
and that's how I can go back and work into
a hospital.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
And at the end of the day.
Speaker 3 (01:48):
I know that we're here for profit. But my hope,
at my want is to provide access to the three
hundred million Americans that need it the most. And so
if I'm doing that in a real way that is
measured and thoughtful and based on you know, data and
science and literacy all those things, then I have to
(02:11):
grow in this way.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
Yeah, that was a really interesting point there in how
vcs kind of the and censors are misaligned with what
you need in healthcare. And I want you to speak
a little bit more on that, because you know, I
grew up listening to people like Mark Zuckerberg talking the
move fast and break things, and you're saying, like that
does not work when you're talking about health. How how
can you encourage venture capital, which you need in industries
(02:37):
like this to be able to fund the thing? How
do they have to look at this differently?
Speaker 2 (02:43):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (02:44):
Like so for myself, right, this is this is a
new attrition company, right, Intertian company. We are registered dietitians,
We see patients one on one telemedicine. Are there places
for us to use AI and to grow faster and
by using technology and be more efficient and increase gross
margin a thousand percent? But is that just the answer. No,
(03:06):
that's not just the answer. And so I won't name
them by name. But you can think about other companies
that are like prescribing compounded golp ones for example, and
it's like okay, yeah, like well look what they're doing,
or you're selling supplements, like why don't you do that?
And it's like, well, I'm not selling compounded GLP one
because we didn't do trials on semaglitie acetate or cemgleeatide sodium.
(03:30):
And I'm in the business of providing safe care to
my patients, and so I can't do that. And I'm
not going to give you supplements because maybe not everyone
can afford supplements, right, That is a very elitist look, right,
And so what are the things that I can help
someone do?
Speaker 2 (03:45):
And I'm not.
Speaker 3 (03:45):
Saying you should have supplements or you shouldn't have supplements,
but that's not what my business model is. And so
I think that just like really understanding, like what is
the goal. The goal is to make people better. The
goal is to get people to come in see you
understand where they fit in, and also collaborate perhaps with
their physicians so that we can get better outcomes. And
(04:06):
so that's better for the group, the collective. And then
I think there is the like the path to making
more money, right, and so just being like judicious about
the way that you see things and pouring more money
on that instead of pouring more money on what you've
been pattern matching for so long.
Speaker 1 (04:25):
Yeah, you make me think about this conversation we have
in our country about you know, how other countries might
have free health care and you know, we have to
pay for it here, and they may have better outcomes
because the food they get offered are better and all
these different things. As someone who's building a company that
also supports good health and positive outcomes, how do you
(04:46):
think about these things and are they also misaligned?
Speaker 2 (04:50):
I do think that they're misaligned.
Speaker 3 (04:52):
Like the fact that you know, maternal leave is not
just like a standard thing here is really unfortunate. You're
so stressed out, you have the baby, you have to
like pay for the baby's child's care. Maybe you're not
able to nurse. Probably some people are right, Like I
worked and I breastfed both of my kids for one
year each. But I worked in a hospital and I
worked with dieticians and that was where we were forward,
(05:14):
so I had a lot of support there everybody else.
I mean, when I've worked corporate jobs after having had
a kid, I'm pumping in a bathroom. What I can
tell you my sister in law, who's an archaeologist and
gave birth to her second kid in Sweden. She was
on a project for the country of Sweden. She is
not a citizen of the country, and they put they
paid for her maternity, and I'm like, wait, wait.
Speaker 2 (05:37):
You don't even you're not a citizen of Sweden. She's like,
I'm not a government contract.
Speaker 3 (05:41):
I'm like, this is wild, right, And so because of
that she had, they didn't think about it.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
They were getting.
Speaker 3 (05:48):
Paid and her kid was breastbed and she was, you know,
exploring Sweden and doing all those things. And then that
give you like peace and you can function and you're
not stressed out, and because you're not stressed out, you
don't have a stressed out baby. These are like cascade,
cascading effects that are beneficial, and we're just missing the
mark because at the end of the day, we're always like, oh, well,
(06:08):
how much money can we save?
Speaker 2 (06:09):
How much money?
Speaker 3 (06:10):
What is that putting into our pocket? You're right, but
if people's mental health is suffering and they can't, hey,
you could save a lot of money if you were
supporting women in breastfeeding and making it easier and letting
them know that they could stay home and they didn't
have to have a pump, but they'd have to do this.
And yes, of course, if you don't want a breastfeed,
that's all fine too, no problem, but you're not even
really giving people a solid chance to do it.
Speaker 1 (06:34):
What is one digital particularly digital innovation that you think
could radically transform some of the issues you're talking about
with regards to our nutrition and preventative health in our community.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
Yeah, I think that.
Speaker 3 (06:49):
I do think that AI and scribing and allowing for
the clinician to spend more time in patient.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
Care allows more relationship. Right.
Speaker 3 (07:01):
The dietician is the frontline of healthcare, highly trained, underutilized.
I sit a while, I sat along side med students,
nursing students, PA students.
Speaker 2 (07:10):
I taught the med students at SINAI.
Speaker 3 (07:12):
I have you know, I have doctor friends that message
me and they're like, can you talk through this with me?
Am I the smartest person on the planet. No, but
I've had to see many different types of patients, right,
for for a very long time. Right, And so so
because I talk to people for an hour every single
week and insurance is paying me for that, I learn
(07:33):
everything about them.
Speaker 2 (07:34):
And also I am trained. When you and I are.
Speaker 3 (07:37):
Talking, I'm generally I'm just listening to you and I'm
asking you questions so that then you tell me your
whole life story in three minutes, and honestly, in three
minutes on you know every single thing about you. And
then I and I understand also how you work, how
you see the world, because because I worked in a
New York City hospital, the juxtaposition of placement of most
New York City hospitals is within the community, so at
(07:59):
Mount Sinai the housing project across the street. And then
also I've seen all of the celebrities you name them,
I have seen them walking through the hall, right, and
I have to send that same information. So I understand
how you work, how you operate, and get you to
do things. And so the more you allow for clinicians
to do their job and you compensate them properly, the
(08:21):
better outcomes they're going to get.
Speaker 1 (08:25):
There are hundreds, if not thousands of influencers all over
TikTok and Instagram. Who and yeah, I'm sure you've seen these.
You know, hey, you should not eat eggs, but then
the other ones like you should eat a lot of eggs,
and the other ones you know, meat is killing you
than double ones you need more meat from protein from
meat and etc. What are some of the most because
I'm just interested, heureus, like, what are some of the
(08:46):
most dangerous things that's your dietician, What are some of
the most dangerous pieces of advice and you can even
go with the sept highers, like how we get that information?
What are some of the most dangerous pieces of advice
you've seen pervasive on social media?
Speaker 3 (09:01):
I mean it is like, it's the seed oils. You
can't have the seed oils.
Speaker 2 (09:05):
You can't eat meat. You you have to be vegan.
Speaker 3 (09:08):
You you It's like, well, hold on, yes, being more
plant based, Being plant based is better. We know that
we can correlate red meat to colon cancer, processed meats
to colon cancer. We can correlate all of those things.
So like, no problem understood that those studies exist. But
you're gonna tell people that they can only eat plants.
(09:28):
Like after Beyonce is movie, I don't know, and then
she she was vegan, and every single black patient I
had was like, I'm vegan and it's not working.
Speaker 2 (09:38):
And I'm like, guys, you don't have Beyonce money.
Speaker 3 (09:40):
So Beyonce's chef makes a grape tomato taste like chocolate,
So like, this isn't it for you, and let me
show you how to do it.
Speaker 2 (09:50):
Let me show you how to do it.
Speaker 3 (09:51):
And so I think the problem with social media is
that you see you see these famous people and you
see them doing these things and they're actually not really
telling you the truth, which is they are rich. They
are rich, so they have means to execute things. Most
people live somewhere in the middle. So what I would
(10:12):
tell you is, hey, you should eat mostly plants. So
what could that look like for you? That could look
like oatmeal for breakfast, a salad with chickpeas for lunch,
and at dinner you're having chicken, and so like, mostly
you ate plants today, and that's likely good enough. I
think when people talk in absolutes, it's very problematic. I
think the other problem is from my side, my governing
(10:34):
body doesn't protect my license, and so that allows people
to just come in and say that they know about nutrition.
Most Americans don't understand what statistically significant is. I've had
many patients. I had a patient ms to be like,
did you read this study that tequila lower's blood sugar?
Speaker 2 (10:50):
And I'm like, what is the study? You send it
to me. So I look at the study and it
was like N of two.
Speaker 3 (10:56):
I'm like, that is not a study. That's not even
a hypothesis. I'm like, do you under stand statistics? Everyone
give it to me. Let me, like, let me help
you understand this, and so it's it is a money grab.
And also because our license isn't protected. You even see
registered dietitians just talking out of both sides in their
mouths because they want people to know who they are.
(11:17):
I think there's this thing with dieticians that you're gonna beat.
And I know this is like very hypocritical because I
am on television, I am writing a book, but I'm
doing that because.
Speaker 2 (11:27):
They're making me. It's like you're gonna be famous.
Speaker 3 (11:30):
They're gonna be on You're gonna be on the Today Show,
and that's going to make you famous.
Speaker 2 (11:34):
And it's like it's not nobody cares actually what I'm eating.
Speaker 3 (11:37):
They like to hear me talk because I'm funny and
I give it in a relatable way, but they're actually
really curious about what celebrities are eating and what new
diet trend those people are doing, because that is what
we're looking at every single day.
Speaker 2 (11:50):
And so that's where.
Speaker 3 (11:51):
We are misguided, misled, like and it is it is
a true it's it's a true shame.
Speaker 1 (11:57):
Yeah, what's what I find interesting about you use them
to a couple of things. One like you studied health care,
but you also have a strong business acumen, and that
is not something you get taught necessarily in medical school,
health school, all those things. What is different about your path?
What have you been exposed to that gave you that
level of depth and proficiency.
Speaker 3 (12:20):
You know, my parents are immigrants from the poorest country
in the Western Hemisphere, and they both have advanced degrees.
And you know, my mom is a nurse and my
dad's an engineer. My dad speaks seven different languages, and
my dad was always hustling. He's like this black man
with an accent who is leaked and bounds smarter and
better than his white counterparts. And he had to figure
(12:43):
out this place in the world. And so I sort
of watched that and that was interesting to me. And
I always thought about how things were built and how
they work and what is the reason behind that. So
I have like problems and relationships because I'm always listening
to the words that you're not saying, or when you
say things that seem to me like you're projecting. Is
that because that's how you really feel? Or is that
(13:05):
like what is behind that? And so that's that's but
that that's how I felt and I think also I'm
also interested in just trying things out. So I'm like,
okay'm gonna try this out. I'm gonna see what works
and what doesn't work. And it's like, oh, that worked,
and that was that was really impactful, so like let's
build on that.
Speaker 2 (13:24):
So that's sort of how Coolina came to be.
Speaker 3 (13:26):
It was like, okay, like we know how to be
dieticians and we know how to build insurance and like
let's just say where are you? This is just like,
you know, help pay out our student loans and you
know it'll be fun. And then it got it morphed
into this do.
Speaker 1 (13:37):
You you haven't. I don't know if it's still true,
but you have an all all female leadership team. We
have two men now, so I think the question can
still be tailored for you. So what had What was
powerful about that when it was true?
Speaker 3 (13:58):
I think I think that there were members on the
team that were very.
Speaker 2 (14:06):
Like focus driven, like about the cause, right.
Speaker 3 (14:09):
I thought that that was like okay, like we're gonna
like lift each other up and that that's very very
good and we don't have to worry about performing to
impress a man here because we're we're going to get
in here and figure this out. And so I think,
because we've gotten so far with nothing, we bootstrapped this
tomorrow and I put five thousand dollars in a bank
account and said, like, let's see what happens. I didn't
(14:31):
owe anybody any money when VC started geting me money,
and I was actually profitable when they came in.
Speaker 2 (14:36):
Like it wasn't a huge profit, but I was.
Speaker 3 (14:38):
I was making money, and I was doing things above
board and so and it was working. And I was like, Okay, great,
now I'm just going to get a couple of people
just a little bit smarter than me to help me,
who maybe have done this before, to help me take
it to this next place. But I think we were
all committed to proving that we could get it done
(15:00):
and that we didn't need like assistance from from a man.
We could we could figure this out, and we did.
But I'm much in all girls high school, I have
like it. I think of things like.
Speaker 1 (15:10):
That, Yeah, how do you personally think about generational wealth?
Speaker 3 (15:17):
I think that it is a tricky thing. I've seen
a lot of this. I grew up, you know, my
parents being the immigrants that they are sent me to
all the fancy schools, and we're like, okay, we send
you to the fancy schools and then you will be
you will have the same experience as white people, and
then white people will treat you the same.
Speaker 2 (15:38):
That was not true.
Speaker 3 (15:39):
So that's where they messed up. I'm doing something different
from my children. But when I was in no schools,
I saw wealth's crazy wealth, like like people people getting
you know, Mercedes done on their sixteenth birthday and crashing
it that day and then getting a new one and
like it not matter, It doesn't matter, and they're like wow,
and like you can call your parents and they'll write
you a trick and that's really cool. And so and
(16:01):
I think that, yes, you want to have stuff. You
want to have enough money that your kids always know
that if something goes down, the kid gets divorced, the
kids literally their jobs, something goes down, and they can
always come to you. But I think also you have
to remember, like, hey, no, you got to do it
on your own. And I think that people people are
always interested in how I talk with my kids and
(16:23):
how I raise my kids. My kids are like pretty autonomous.
They're not perfect, they're third channel eleven. My eyes are
very open. However, they understand the rules of engagement. The
rules of engagement are this, you have a job.
Speaker 2 (16:34):
I have a job. Your job is you go to school,
You are kind, you don't get yourself in trouble. You learn.
Speaker 3 (16:38):
If there's something going on and you're having issues learning,
then I will help you.
Speaker 2 (16:42):
But that is your job.
Speaker 3 (16:43):
And if you can't do your job, then you and
I are going to be in a problem and you
are held accountable to something.
Speaker 2 (16:50):
There are standards here you don't get to.
Speaker 3 (16:53):
For example, my daughter, Uh, it's a good student, but
she's having a tough time in math this year for
whatever reason. And she had a test some percentages and
she was literally failing math. And I'm not out here
brading my kid telling her she's stupid. I'm like getting
her the hell working with her. She's also in a
house stand and so I come home. She has you know,
I only say on Mondays, what are the tests? And
(17:13):
they tell me, and then it's in my brain and
then I just keep, you know, mentioning it. But again
they have to do it on their own.
Speaker 2 (17:18):
And so I come home.
Speaker 3 (17:20):
And I'm like, okay, let's do a couple of problems,
and she can't do she's not doing them correctly. But
I'm like, she's like, I'm going to house stand now.
I'm like, oh, you're not going anywhere, can go anywhere
you that's.
Speaker 2 (17:29):
Two and a half hours, Please sit here and do this.
Speaker 3 (17:32):
And she I was like, you have a job, and
she was like, oh, okay, And then she got an
eighty one, which for her is like getting one hundred
and one. So like so that shows her and it's
not like Mommy is not going to bail you out.
I'm always going to bail you out. Tell me the truth.
I'm here for you, like all of that stuff, but
you got to do a lot of stuff on your own.
And I think that is the same thing with this
generational wealth, Like yeah, you can get something that's no problem,
but you're not getting all of it and you have
(17:54):
to work.
Speaker 1 (17:55):
I love it. I love that it is obvious. Is
it permeates through you that you're passionate about the work
that you do, and you know, I would say it
seems mission aligned for you, and I wonder how you
balance that mission alignment with a scalable business model and
the need to build a scalable business model.
Speaker 3 (18:18):
Yeah, I think that that. Yes, our core is how
do we give access to the ninety nine percent? Great, Okay,
we're taking insurance, so like that's phase one, and like, okay, great,
we can go into employers and we've just signed We've
just signed a bunch of very big contracts that are
really exciting. And then more people will have access to it.
Think like one hundred and twenty members that buy on
(18:41):
the same platform every single day, all everything that they have, right,
and we we did.
Speaker 2 (18:45):
That and that feels very good.
Speaker 3 (18:47):
That's still an access point for people to come in
and get our service. And then okay, now there's like
more of the workforce. Okay, so now we think about
where do we get the quality people, how do we
train them, how do we put that all together. So
we've actually on it slowly so that we know like, okay,
this is what works, we deliver it this way, here's
how we put in the automations, and here's how we
(19:08):
bring more people in, and this is how they have
to work with us. And yeah, that's not really exciting
for investors. But you know when all these digital health
companies go away and we were still here.
Speaker 2 (19:20):
They're like, yeah, you're proudly as.
Speaker 3 (19:22):
The way right, So like I'm actually like not bothered
by anything. I'm like, I'm running my own race. There
can be multiple winners at the table. So we're gonna
do it the way that we can. We're gonna look
at all the yes, competitors are raising at bigger valuation
and I'm over here like just maybe a little bit small,
but I'm getting these contracts and these health systems and
all these people coming in. So we're all going to
get there together, and there'll be many different points where
(19:44):
people can access this service. And my job, my mission
is also to go speak about that and say like, hey,
there are different areas for you, like you can do it,
because I care about people getting market share, and then
for us, like it's it's coming, it is coming. We're
doing it, and you know, we grow. We've grown at
least eighty five percent every single year, and we grow
(20:05):
at least ten percent month over month.
Speaker 1 (20:07):
It's remarkable. Whodos who knows to you?
Speaker 2 (20:11):
Thanks?
Speaker 1 (20:11):
Yeah, And because I think about the at least my
awareness of insurance support, payer support for nutrition, you know,
use in my at least in my acknowledgment of history,
like they'll pay for the doctor for sure, or the
best for the hospital for sure, but the preventative stuff
was which backwards was an afterthought. Can you talk about
(20:35):
the marketplace shifts that have allowed the room for colleen
health to grow in scale?
Speaker 3 (20:43):
Yeah, I think you know. Twenty twenty is COVID. It
was the biggest mental health crisis of our time. A
lot of money and mentals like headspace was put into
making sure that people had access to mental health. And
then it was like, oh, we we can do this
everywhere else, right, like this this is really great, and
(21:05):
so like, hey, we already pay for this. Insurance was
nutrition for care, you know, build by insurance was put
in Obamacare in two thousand and eight. It was the
first time that nutrition was built was built in and
so commercial payers were like, okay, yeah, let's do this.
And we're now seeing like we've seen right, prevention is
it like spending more time with the patient? How do
(21:27):
we do that? How do we coordinate care? This is
the future. It's gone. This whole idea where like I
just go to the doctor and they tell me what
to do, Like, especially for us, that's how we die.
So that doesn't work. So we we have to be
we have to be informed. We have to be able
to ask questions we have and we need to be
empowered to do that. And when insurance payers started to
(21:49):
see because we tracked data that and anecdotally they're looking
for twenty five hundred dollars of cost savings when working
with a dietician. And we have proof because we've been
tracking data since the beginning of time of like ten
thousand dollars of cost savings per patient, which extrapolated out
is like ten billion dollars in savings. So that's what
the tayer cares about very much. The health systems very
much care about making money. So you got to like
(22:12):
teach them, like talk to them in that regard. But
I think I think it is very powerful to see, right,
Like I keep Polina Health keeps less acute patients out
of physicians' offices because we're tracking the data every single
week and the patient has lost twenty pounds but is
on mets Foreman and their A one C is high.
So I say, I'm going to send the note to
the doctor, and I send the notes to the doctors
(22:33):
and then I say, hey, patient has lost twenty pounds,
A one C is still high. I think they need
an adjustment of medication for met foreman, and here is
all the data that we've tracked, and the doctor's like great,
and they increase the script and then all of a sudden,
the patient's AEC the blood sugar is going down, and
then ultimately the A one C is going down and
it's like okay, great, also perfect, this is what we want.
Speaker 2 (22:54):
And we are making.
Speaker 3 (22:55):
Sure that patients check in with their primary care physicians
more than just once a year. Because you come to
us and you want to lower a lab value, well
I don't. I can't write an order for you to
get labs. So you can go back and see your
doctor and then you can talk to your doctor and
then they'll send you back to us. And so then
that's how people get paid, and that's how people get
(23:15):
better care. And it makes sense. So it's this education piece,
right is that people? Because you just keep seeing on
you know, on the internet, you're like, oh, I have
to buy this digital course for metabolic health and lowering
my cortisol and I'm gonna read this and it's gonna work.
And it's like you don't have to do that. You
can just use your insurance. I promise probably have twenty
(23:36):
six sessions and like maybe a twenty dollars copae maybe.
Speaker 1 (23:39):
Yeah, yeah, what is in your EDC your everyday carry?
You are a healthcare nutrition CEO, and I'm sure you
have something that you need before you leave the house,
the apartment, the condo, the brownstone, wherever you at. What
do you need daily just to make life happen.
Speaker 3 (24:00):
Actually have to write everything down in my head when
I wake up, and I have to write it down
before I go to sleep. And then that quiets the noise,
and that allows me to be more strategic. It allows
me to be less reactive. It allows me to listen
to myself and to look to myself to be validated and.
Speaker 2 (24:23):
Not outside and so like that that is the thing.
Speaker 3 (24:27):
And then like all the other things, right, like you know,
I exercise every day and if I don't need a
vegetable twice a day, I feel guilty.
Speaker 2 (24:32):
Kind of thing.
Speaker 3 (24:34):
But that's but that stuff, that stuff doesn't really matter
because I do that, I don't drink out the hall
and I still got cancer in twenty twenty three, So
like that's not it. It's the taking the time to
think through you know who your authentic self is.
Speaker 2 (24:50):
And like how can you live like that?
Speaker 3 (24:53):
And so for me, it is very much therapeutic to
like write down all of my feelings and look at
them and then I don't feel like I have to
be so react if it's so compulsive.
Speaker 1 (25:01):
So this is not just like a list of to do.
This is a journal.
Speaker 3 (25:04):
This is yeah, because like what's in my brain today.
I feel this mm hm. I feel this because of this,
and this is how I'm looking at it, and this
is and I just write and I don't necessarily go
back and like reread it. I just get it out
of my brain. Yeah, so it doesn't spill out and
affect you when we're having dinner. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:21):
Yeah. How do you think about Vanessa's voice? I mean,
you're on these big platforms and people listen to what
you have to say, and how do you when you
you talked about, you know, your journaling, so you're getting
at the junk out or the good stuff out. You
need it all out, so you're not giving them things
that you don't want to. But how do you consider
(25:44):
your voice and the platforms that you have?
Speaker 3 (25:47):
It seems because I am committed to telling the truth
and like not changing how I deliver the message I.
Speaker 2 (25:57):
Just this is how I talk.
Speaker 3 (25:59):
I talk like to my kids and no, Like you know,
sometimes people like it seems like you have a tone.
I'm like, I actually don't have a tone at all.
I'm very clear and directed and I've spent a lot
of my life trying to make people feel comfortable, and
so it's not a tone. It's me being really clear
and direct and not wavering from what's in my head
because I'm not here to make other people comfortable.
Speaker 2 (26:20):
And if you don't like the way that I'm saying it,
then you're I'm not for you, and that's okay, that's okay.
Speaker 3 (26:26):
So I think that's that's it, right. It is like
just staying true to myself. And then I think people
see that and they're just like, hey, I like that.
Speaker 2 (26:36):
It does.
Speaker 3 (26:36):
It feels like it's real, it's not BS, and so like,
I want to listen to more. And I think that's
how I probably have gotten this far.
Speaker 1 (26:44):
How have you learned how to lead a staff a
team of people? Like, there's one thing again to be
trained to be you know in healthcare, it's another thing
to learn how to lead as a CEO.
Speaker 3 (26:56):
M Yeah, Like I think first of all, you know,
in the beginning, when you have a star, you're in
all of the shit all of the time, and then
you have to come out because you have to do
other things. Right, Like my job mostly is you know,
talking the mission and vision of Polina and a lot
of fundraising. So you have to be very comfortable with
(27:17):
not not knowing, not being in the weeds, right, you
have to be very comfortable in it. Or you have
to trust the people around you that they understand that
everybody has a job to do. You're doing your job,
and they're doing their job, and they're going to inform
you and protect you and make sure that when you
go out to talk the vision of the mission you
are very clear on that. And so that's the thing.
(27:37):
And there's like there's this ego part like like hi, guys,
I'm a black woman, and so if I don't know
every single piece and I'm not in all of it
and I'm not controlling all of it, then what are
people going to think of me and what is happening?
So like there's all of that that lives there too, right,
And then also like the trust, like I trust you.
I presume you've done this before. That's why you're sitting here,
(27:58):
and I know that I've given you a directive. I'm
very clear. I think being clear is being kind. Someone
told me that once, and so I'm clear on it,
and you're gonna go execute. And I'm I'm really not
gonna be like telling you what to do every single
minute of the day, but I'm gonna be really watching
very closely, and I'm gonna I'm gonna just drop the
things they Have you thought about this, have you done this?
(28:21):
And then as time goes on, if I see like, okay, hey,
like it's not happening, well, then you and I have
to have a different conversation. But this micromanaging thing or
whatever is, that's.
Speaker 2 (28:30):
Not That's not how I lead.
Speaker 3 (28:32):
I want people to feel like they are supported and
they can come to me. And I do understand a
lot of what's happening in the day to day, but
that's not that's not where I excel. But if you
need me to in here to do something for you,
then I can. And you you know that. It's like
my kids, you need me to be interview, I'm moving
for you to tell me, but you got to handle
your life, handle your business.
Speaker 1 (28:52):
Yeah, and and doing research all this and learning a
lot about you. I've seen how you are very adamant
about me. We need more people of color in this space,
and more black diets 'sues, more black people in healthcare
working and not just taking advantage of the services. And
in that same vein like, how do you think we
as black technologists, black people trying to start our businesses,
(29:15):
black career minded people and professionals, how should we be
looking at healthcare and wellness and nutrition as a space
for us not only again to get services, but to
contribute and make sure we change the narrative.
Speaker 3 (29:30):
Yeah, I think some of it is on the governing bodies.
So like, for example, the barrier to become a regisry
didition is really high, and many dietitians are hundreds of
thousands of dollars in debt and they're not going to
recoup that money very easily. And if I have acumened
for sciences, am I going to go be a registered
dietitian or am I going to go be a pastic surgeon?
(29:53):
So that there's that piece, So the governing body needs
to do something. We at Kulina are doing our part right.
We have ninety percent of registered dietitians or white women.
Only forty four percent of our dietitians identify as white.
We are very deliberate about that. We have cultural humility
(30:13):
training at a regular cadence. We are very focused on
having diverse patients and diverse data sets. So that's that is,
that is not But I think also like VC needs
to invest in in this more and not the pattern
(30:34):
match like bro that saw a white space like doesn't
have there are other group practices right that like, so,
but come in and give me money, right, give me
money and then help me move forward so that.
Speaker 2 (30:46):
I can help more people of color. Right, Like, if
you think about there are.
Speaker 3 (30:49):
Three hundred million Americans, there are only eleven million Black
women eleven point two million. But we know that our
birth rate is happened, So what's happening here? Yeah, well,
and why are you also freaked out?
Speaker 2 (31:04):
Like relaxed? We do. It's not even that many of us.
Speaker 3 (31:06):
Everybody calmed down, So like that that is something then
that we should be putting dollars behind.
Speaker 2 (31:11):
What are you doing?
Speaker 3 (31:12):
It's it's when I got breast cancer. Right, White women
are diagnosed with breast cancer double black women, but black
women have a higher mortality because they do not finish
treatment a lot of times because they don't feel seen
and heard by their physicians.
Speaker 2 (31:27):
I got the.
Speaker 3 (31:28):
Most excellent care at Mount Siny Hospital because I had
I have an excellent surgeon and an excellent oncologist, and
excellent friends and an excellent, excellent radialdiation doctor. But I
also work there, and all those people are my friends,
and I leveraged every single thing, every friend I ever met.
(31:49):
I was like, oh no, I'm not waiting three months
to get a biopsy. I need one in two days.
Who was getting it for me?
Speaker 2 (31:53):
Like?
Speaker 3 (31:53):
Oh, I mean when the guy called me to tell
me that I had cancer, he was like, I also
called your ob and he was he stopped a plane
that he was born, and we've made an appointment.
Speaker 2 (32:01):
For you for this surgeon. You're going on Friday at
two o'clock.
Speaker 3 (32:05):
Right. That's what I'm doing and my team is doing
for everyone. And so when people of color come in,
my favorite patients who were vegan and the ae C
was like thirteen, and I was like this isn't it?
Like okay, like here it is, and that guy's like,
oh my al and C is five point seven. And
I'm gonna walk my daughters down the aisle, and I'm like, yep,
(32:27):
that's it. So like that is what we're doing. That
is what I'm doing. I don't Yeah, we all care
about money, because you know, I don't want to work
for the rest of my life.
Speaker 2 (32:35):
I got that.
Speaker 3 (32:36):
But like, I want people to be well and feeling
empowered and feel that they have value even when they
don't have a lot, and even when they don't understand
a lot, and they're not afraid to go to clinicians
that don't look like them. I want to do that
for them. I want and we teach people how to
do that. Right, Like you go and talk to the doctor,
(32:57):
and you're talking to the doctor with like very clearly,
with data in front of you. Doctor can't refute data.
They're not going to because it's right there and so
and so. Then you're you're coming from a position of power.
And also doctors are just practicing medicine. Don't ever forget that.
So go ask her all your questions.
Speaker 1 (33:15):
Finally, what's the best piece of advice you've ever received
about buildings home from the ground up or that you
have for buildings coround.
Speaker 3 (33:26):
I think it's like, hey, you've ever done this before,
You've gotten pretty far. Keep going and it's okay. If
it doesn't work, try something else. Just try something else.
You're doing more than ninety nine percent of the population.
I think it's very easy to look at this and
(33:47):
think that it's glamorous and it's sexy and it's so fun,
and like that's not the case.
Speaker 2 (33:51):
And I also don't think that.
Speaker 3 (33:52):
Going to work and getting a paycheck is a planaras
seeing fun right crisis all the time, everyone's doing hard
work right, stay at home mom is doing hard work.
Mama goes to work and doing hard work. And I
think I think that the thing that I have learned
is this, You're not unique. You're actually part of a collective.
You're all part of a collective. If you've got that
in your brain now and understood that most people feel
(34:17):
the weight of the world and it feels heavy and
they're struggling with things, and you gave more people grace,
you probably get farther.
Speaker 1 (34:24):
Black Tech Green Money is a production to Blavity Afro
Tech on the Black Effect podcast network in Nightheart Media
is produced by Morgan Debaun and me Well Lucas with
the addigital Production support by Kate McDonald, Sayah Ergan, and
Jayda McGee. Special thank you to Michael Davis in Love Beach.
Learn more about my Guessing Other Tech. This shop is
an innovatives at afrotech dot com. The video version this
(34:44):
episode will drop to Black Tech Green Money on YouTube,
so well tap it in enjoy your Black Tech Green
Money shit us to somebody, go get your money. He's
in love
It's a pleasure to be with you today. And I'm
curious about like the state of healthcare and how we
take care of ourselves when we think about what's happening
with AI, and you know, we used to just go
to Google and say, you know, what does this bump mean?
And all of these different things, But now we have AI,
which is kind of changing the whole landscape very much,
(00:20):
changing that landscape. What are you seeing happening with both
our awareness about how to take advantage of these things
and the responses we get with the technologies we use.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
Well, I think that AI.
Speaker 3 (00:33):
I think I know right, it is beneficial in so
many ways. Right, we are able to maybe detect breast
cancer five years before it's going to happen, and we
know that early stage breast cancer is on the ride.
So that's an interesting prospect for sure. But I think
the thought that you're just going to cut the human
element out of healthcare is incorrect. Also, the data sets
(00:56):
that we have at this moment are not on not
reflective of like general population, right, which is a historic thing.
So I think there's that's that's a gap there as well.
How are we training these models? I also think that
like there's this element of like we see commandeering digital
(01:17):
health and looking for the flashy thing and like the
growth at all costs and like things that it can
be scaled like fast, and then you know this is
like you're crashing and you're burning, and there's all these
nuances and so you know, sometimes they have this friction
point with my investor. It's not so much anymore, but
it's like okay, like hey, what are you doing, How
(01:38):
are you doing it?
Speaker 2 (01:38):
Why can't you move faster?
Speaker 3 (01:39):
And I'm like, well, because if this thing burns to
the ground, all I have with my license and my integrity,
and that's how I can go back and work into
a hospital.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
And at the end of the day.
Speaker 3 (01:48):
I know that we're here for profit. But my hope,
at my want is to provide access to the three
hundred million Americans that need it the most. And so
if I'm doing that in a real way that is
measured and thoughtful and based on you know, data and
science and literacy all those things, then I have to
(02:11):
grow in this way.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
Yeah, that was a really interesting point there in how
vcs kind of the and censors are misaligned with what
you need in healthcare. And I want you to speak
a little bit more on that, because you know, I
grew up listening to people like Mark Zuckerberg talking the
move fast and break things, and you're saying, like that
does not work when you're talking about health. How how
can you encourage venture capital, which you need in industries
(02:37):
like this to be able to fund the thing? How
do they have to look at this differently?
Speaker 2 (02:43):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (02:44):
Like so for myself, right, this is this is a
new attrition company, right, Intertian company. We are registered dietitians,
We see patients one on one telemedicine. Are there places
for us to use AI and to grow faster and
by using technology and be more efficient and increase gross
margin a thousand percent? But is that just the answer. No,
(03:06):
that's not just the answer. And so I won't name
them by name. But you can think about other companies
that are like prescribing compounded golp ones for example, and
it's like okay, yeah, like well look what they're doing,
or you're selling supplements, like why don't you do that?
And it's like, well, I'm not selling compounded GLP one
because we didn't do trials on semaglitie acetate or cemgleeatide sodium.
(03:30):
And I'm in the business of providing safe care to
my patients, and so I can't do that. And I'm
not going to give you supplements because maybe not everyone
can afford supplements, right, That is a very elitist look, right,
And so what are the things that I can help
someone do?
Speaker 2 (03:45):
And I'm not.
Speaker 3 (03:45):
Saying you should have supplements or you shouldn't have supplements,
but that's not what my business model is. And so
I think that just like really understanding, like what is
the goal. The goal is to make people better. The
goal is to get people to come in see you
understand where they fit in, and also collaborate perhaps with
their physicians so that we can get better outcomes. And
(04:06):
so that's better for the group, the collective. And then
I think there is the like the path to making
more money, right, and so just being like judicious about
the way that you see things and pouring more money
on that instead of pouring more money on what you've
been pattern matching for so long.
Speaker 1 (04:25):
Yeah, you make me think about this conversation we have
in our country about you know, how other countries might
have free health care and you know, we have to
pay for it here, and they may have better outcomes
because the food they get offered are better and all
these different things. As someone who's building a company that
also supports good health and positive outcomes, how do you
(04:46):
think about these things and are they also misaligned?
Speaker 2 (04:50):
I do think that they're misaligned.
Speaker 3 (04:52):
Like the fact that you know, maternal leave is not
just like a standard thing here is really unfortunate. You're
so stressed out, you have the baby, you have to
like pay for the baby's child's care. Maybe you're not
able to nurse. Probably some people are right, Like I
worked and I breastfed both of my kids for one
year each. But I worked in a hospital and I
worked with dieticians and that was where we were forward,
(05:14):
so I had a lot of support there everybody else.
I mean, when I've worked corporate jobs after having had
a kid, I'm pumping in a bathroom. What I can
tell you my sister in law, who's an archaeologist and
gave birth to her second kid in Sweden. She was
on a project for the country of Sweden. She is
not a citizen of the country, and they put they
paid for her maternity, and I'm like, wait, wait.
Speaker 2 (05:37):
You don't even you're not a citizen of Sweden. She's like,
I'm not a government contract.
Speaker 3 (05:41):
I'm like, this is wild, right, And so because of
that she had, they didn't think about it.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
They were getting.
Speaker 3 (05:48):
Paid and her kid was breastbed and she was, you know,
exploring Sweden and doing all those things. And then that
give you like peace and you can function and you're
not stressed out, and because you're not stressed out, you
don't have a stressed out baby. These are like cascade,
cascading effects that are beneficial, and we're just missing the
mark because at the end of the day, we're always like, oh, well,
(06:08):
how much money can we save?
Speaker 2 (06:09):
How much money?
Speaker 3 (06:10):
What is that putting into our pocket? You're right, but
if people's mental health is suffering and they can't, hey,
you could save a lot of money if you were
supporting women in breastfeeding and making it easier and letting
them know that they could stay home and they didn't
have to have a pump, but they'd have to do this.
And yes, of course, if you don't want a breastfeed,
that's all fine too, no problem, but you're not even
really giving people a solid chance to do it.
Speaker 1 (06:34):
What is one digital particularly digital innovation that you think
could radically transform some of the issues you're talking about
with regards to our nutrition and preventative health in our community.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
Yeah, I think that.
Speaker 3 (06:49):
I do think that AI and scribing and allowing for
the clinician to spend more time in patient.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
Care allows more relationship. Right.
Speaker 3 (07:01):
The dietician is the frontline of healthcare, highly trained, underutilized.
I sit a while, I sat along side med students,
nursing students, PA students.
Speaker 2 (07:10):
I taught the med students at SINAI.
Speaker 3 (07:12):
I have you know, I have doctor friends that message
me and they're like, can you talk through this with me?
Am I the smartest person on the planet. No, but
I've had to see many different types of patients, right,
for for a very long time. Right, And so so
because I talk to people for an hour every single
week and insurance is paying me for that, I learn
(07:33):
everything about them.
Speaker 2 (07:34):
And also I am trained. When you and I are.
Speaker 3 (07:37):
Talking, I'm generally I'm just listening to you and I'm
asking you questions so that then you tell me your
whole life story in three minutes, and honestly, in three
minutes on you know every single thing about you. And
then I and I understand also how you work, how
you see the world, because because I worked in a
New York City hospital, the juxtaposition of placement of most
New York City hospitals is within the community, so at
(07:59):
Mount Sinai the housing project across the street. And then
also I've seen all of the celebrities you name them,
I have seen them walking through the hall, right, and
I have to send that same information. So I understand
how you work, how you operate, and get you to
do things. And so the more you allow for clinicians
to do their job and you compensate them properly, the
(08:21):
better outcomes they're going to get.
Speaker 1 (08:25):
There are hundreds, if not thousands of influencers all over
TikTok and Instagram. Who and yeah, I'm sure you've seen these.
You know, hey, you should not eat eggs, but then
the other ones like you should eat a lot of eggs,
and the other ones you know, meat is killing you
than double ones you need more meat from protein from
meat and etc. What are some of the most because
I'm just interested, heureus, like, what are some of the
(08:46):
most dangerous things that's your dietician, What are some of
the most dangerous pieces of advice and you can even
go with the sept highers, like how we get that information?
What are some of the most dangerous pieces of advice
you've seen pervasive on social media?
Speaker 3 (09:01):
I mean it is like, it's the seed oils. You
can't have the seed oils.
Speaker 2 (09:05):
You can't eat meat. You you have to be vegan.
Speaker 3 (09:08):
You you It's like, well, hold on, yes, being more
plant based, Being plant based is better. We know that
we can correlate red meat to colon cancer, processed meats
to colon cancer. We can correlate all of those things.
So like, no problem understood that those studies exist. But
you're gonna tell people that they can only eat plants.
(09:28):
Like after Beyonce is movie, I don't know, and then
she she was vegan, and every single black patient I
had was like, I'm vegan and it's not working.
Speaker 2 (09:38):
And I'm like, guys, you don't have Beyonce money.
Speaker 3 (09:40):
So Beyonce's chef makes a grape tomato taste like chocolate,
So like, this isn't it for you, and let me
show you how to do it.
Speaker 2 (09:50):
Let me show you how to do it.
Speaker 3 (09:51):
And so I think the problem with social media is
that you see you see these famous people and you
see them doing these things and they're actually not really
telling you the truth, which is they are rich. They
are rich, so they have means to execute things. Most
people live somewhere in the middle. So what I would
(10:12):
tell you is, hey, you should eat mostly plants. So
what could that look like for you? That could look
like oatmeal for breakfast, a salad with chickpeas for lunch,
and at dinner you're having chicken, and so like, mostly
you ate plants today, and that's likely good enough. I
think when people talk in absolutes, it's very problematic. I
think the other problem is from my side, my governing
(10:34):
body doesn't protect my license, and so that allows people
to just come in and say that they know about nutrition.
Most Americans don't understand what statistically significant is. I've had
many patients. I had a patient ms to be like,
did you read this study that tequila lower's blood sugar?
Speaker 2 (10:50):
And I'm like, what is the study? You send it
to me. So I look at the study and it
was like N of two.
Speaker 3 (10:56):
I'm like, that is not a study. That's not even
a hypothesis. I'm like, do you under stand statistics? Everyone
give it to me. Let me, like, let me help
you understand this, and so it's it is a money grab.
And also because our license isn't protected. You even see
registered dietitians just talking out of both sides in their
mouths because they want people to know who they are.
(11:17):
I think there's this thing with dieticians that you're gonna beat.
And I know this is like very hypocritical because I
am on television, I am writing a book, but I'm
doing that because.
Speaker 2 (11:27):
They're making me. It's like you're gonna be famous.
Speaker 3 (11:30):
They're gonna be on You're gonna be on the Today Show,
and that's going to make you famous.
Speaker 2 (11:34):
And it's like it's not nobody cares actually what I'm eating.
Speaker 3 (11:37):
They like to hear me talk because I'm funny and
I give it in a relatable way, but they're actually
really curious about what celebrities are eating and what new
diet trend those people are doing, because that is what
we're looking at every single day.
Speaker 2 (11:50):
And so that's where.
Speaker 3 (11:51):
We are misguided, misled, like and it is it is
a true it's it's a true shame.
Speaker 1 (11:57):
Yeah, what's what I find interesting about you use them
to a couple of things. One like you studied health care,
but you also have a strong business acumen, and that
is not something you get taught necessarily in medical school,
health school, all those things. What is different about your path?
What have you been exposed to that gave you that
level of depth and proficiency.
Speaker 3 (12:20):
You know, my parents are immigrants from the poorest country
in the Western Hemisphere, and they both have advanced degrees.
And you know, my mom is a nurse and my
dad's an engineer. My dad speaks seven different languages, and
my dad was always hustling. He's like this black man
with an accent who is leaked and bounds smarter and
better than his white counterparts. And he had to figure
(12:43):
out this place in the world. And so I sort
of watched that and that was interesting to me. And
I always thought about how things were built and how
they work and what is the reason behind that. So
I have like problems and relationships because I'm always listening
to the words that you're not saying, or when you
say things that seem to me like you're projecting. Is
that because that's how you really feel? Or is that
(13:05):
like what is behind that? And so that's that's but
that that's how I felt and I think also I'm
also interested in just trying things out. So I'm like,
okay'm gonna try this out. I'm gonna see what works
and what doesn't work. And it's like, oh, that worked,
and that was that was really impactful, so like let's
build on that.
Speaker 2 (13:24):
So that's sort of how Coolina came to be.
Speaker 3 (13:26):
It was like, okay, like we know how to be
dieticians and we know how to build insurance and like
let's just say where are you? This is just like,
you know, help pay out our student loans and you
know it'll be fun. And then it got it morphed
into this do.
Speaker 1 (13:37):
You you haven't. I don't know if it's still true,
but you have an all all female leadership team. We
have two men now, so I think the question can
still be tailored for you. So what had What was
powerful about that when it was true?
Speaker 3 (13:58):
I think I think that there were members on the
team that were very.
Speaker 2 (14:06):
Like focus driven, like about the cause, right.
Speaker 3 (14:09):
I thought that that was like okay, like we're gonna
like lift each other up and that that's very very
good and we don't have to worry about performing to
impress a man here because we're we're going to get
in here and figure this out. And so I think,
because we've gotten so far with nothing, we bootstrapped this
tomorrow and I put five thousand dollars in a bank
account and said, like, let's see what happens. I didn't
(14:31):
owe anybody any money when VC started geting me money,
and I was actually profitable when they came in.
Speaker 2 (14:36):
Like it wasn't a huge profit, but I was.
Speaker 3 (14:38):
I was making money, and I was doing things above
board and so and it was working. And I was like, Okay, great,
now I'm just going to get a couple of people
just a little bit smarter than me to help me,
who maybe have done this before, to help me take
it to this next place. But I think we were
all committed to proving that we could get it done
(15:00):
and that we didn't need like assistance from from a man.
We could we could figure this out, and we did.
But I'm much in all girls high school, I have
like it. I think of things like.
Speaker 1 (15:10):
That, Yeah, how do you personally think about generational wealth?
Speaker 3 (15:17):
I think that it is a tricky thing. I've seen
a lot of this. I grew up, you know, my
parents being the immigrants that they are sent me to
all the fancy schools, and we're like, okay, we send
you to the fancy schools and then you will be
you will have the same experience as white people, and
then white people will treat you the same.
Speaker 2 (15:38):
That was not true.
Speaker 3 (15:39):
So that's where they messed up. I'm doing something different
from my children. But when I was in no schools,
I saw wealth's crazy wealth, like like people people getting
you know, Mercedes done on their sixteenth birthday and crashing
it that day and then getting a new one and
like it not matter, It doesn't matter, and they're like wow,
and like you can call your parents and they'll write
you a trick and that's really cool. And so and
(16:01):
I think that, yes, you want to have stuff. You
want to have enough money that your kids always know
that if something goes down, the kid gets divorced, the
kids literally their jobs, something goes down, and they can
always come to you. But I think also you have
to remember, like, hey, no, you got to do it
on your own. And I think that people people are
always interested in how I talk with my kids and
(16:23):
how I raise my kids. My kids are like pretty autonomous.
They're not perfect, they're third channel eleven. My eyes are
very open. However, they understand the rules of engagement. The
rules of engagement are this, you have a job.
Speaker 2 (16:34):
I have a job. Your job is you go to school,
You are kind, you don't get yourself in trouble. You learn.
Speaker 3 (16:38):
If there's something going on and you're having issues learning,
then I will help you.
Speaker 2 (16:42):
But that is your job.
Speaker 3 (16:43):
And if you can't do your job, then you and
I are going to be in a problem and you
are held accountable to something.
Speaker 2 (16:50):
There are standards here you don't get to.
Speaker 3 (16:53):
For example, my daughter, Uh, it's a good student, but
she's having a tough time in math this year for
whatever reason. And she had a test some percentages and
she was literally failing math. And I'm not out here
brading my kid telling her she's stupid. I'm like getting
her the hell working with her. She's also in a
house stand and so I come home. She has you know,
I only say on Mondays, what are the tests? And
(17:13):
they tell me, and then it's in my brain and
then I just keep, you know, mentioning it. But again
they have to do it on their own.
Speaker 2 (17:18):
And so I come home.
Speaker 3 (17:20):
And I'm like, okay, let's do a couple of problems,
and she can't do she's not doing them correctly. But
I'm like, she's like, I'm going to house stand now.
I'm like, oh, you're not going anywhere, can go anywhere
you that's.
Speaker 2 (17:29):
Two and a half hours, Please sit here and do this.
Speaker 3 (17:32):
And she I was like, you have a job, and
she was like, oh, okay, And then she got an
eighty one, which for her is like getting one hundred
and one. So like so that shows her and it's
not like Mommy is not going to bail you out.
I'm always going to bail you out. Tell me the truth.
I'm here for you, like all of that stuff, but
you got to do a lot of stuff on your own.
And I think that is the same thing with this
generational wealth, Like yeah, you can get something that's no problem,
but you're not getting all of it and you have
(17:54):
to work.
Speaker 1 (17:55):
I love it. I love that it is obvious. Is
it permeates through you that you're passionate about the work
that you do, and you know, I would say it
seems mission aligned for you, and I wonder how you
balance that mission alignment with a scalable business model and
the need to build a scalable business model.
Speaker 3 (18:18):
Yeah, I think that that. Yes, our core is how
do we give access to the ninety nine percent? Great, Okay,
we're taking insurance, so like that's phase one, and like, okay, great,
we can go into employers and we've just signed We've
just signed a bunch of very big contracts that are
really exciting. And then more people will have access to it.
Think like one hundred and twenty members that buy on
(18:41):
the same platform every single day, all everything that they have, right,
and we we did.
Speaker 2 (18:45):
That and that feels very good.
Speaker 3 (18:47):
That's still an access point for people to come in
and get our service. And then okay, now there's like
more of the workforce. Okay, so now we think about
where do we get the quality people, how do we
train them, how do we put that all together. So
we've actually on it slowly so that we know like, okay,
this is what works, we deliver it this way, here's
how we put in the automations, and here's how we
(19:08):
bring more people in, and this is how they have
to work with us. And yeah, that's not really exciting
for investors. But you know when all these digital health
companies go away and we were still here.
Speaker 2 (19:20):
They're like, yeah, you're proudly as.
Speaker 3 (19:22):
The way right, So like I'm actually like not bothered
by anything. I'm like, I'm running my own race. There
can be multiple winners at the table. So we're gonna
do it the way that we can. We're gonna look
at all the yes, competitors are raising at bigger valuation
and I'm over here like just maybe a little bit small,
but I'm getting these contracts and these health systems and
all these people coming in. So we're all going to
get there together, and there'll be many different points where
(19:44):
people can access this service. And my job, my mission
is also to go speak about that and say like, hey,
there are different areas for you, like you can do it,
because I care about people getting market share, and then
for us, like it's it's coming, it is coming. We're
doing it, and you know, we grow. We've grown at
least eighty five percent every single year, and we grow
(20:05):
at least ten percent month over month.
Speaker 1 (20:07):
It's remarkable. Whodos who knows to you?
Speaker 2 (20:11):
Thanks?
Speaker 1 (20:11):
Yeah, And because I think about the at least my
awareness of insurance support, payer support for nutrition, you know,
use in my at least in my acknowledgment of history,
like they'll pay for the doctor for sure, or the
best for the hospital for sure, but the preventative stuff
was which backwards was an afterthought. Can you talk about
(20:35):
the marketplace shifts that have allowed the room for colleen
health to grow in scale?
Speaker 3 (20:43):
Yeah, I think you know. Twenty twenty is COVID. It
was the biggest mental health crisis of our time. A
lot of money and mentals like headspace was put into
making sure that people had access to mental health. And
then it was like, oh, we we can do this
everywhere else, right, like this this is really great, and
(21:05):
so like, hey, we already pay for this. Insurance was
nutrition for care, you know, build by insurance was put
in Obamacare in two thousand and eight. It was the
first time that nutrition was built was built in and
so commercial payers were like, okay, yeah, let's do this.
And we're now seeing like we've seen right, prevention is
it like spending more time with the patient? How do
(21:27):
we do that? How do we coordinate care? This is
the future. It's gone. This whole idea where like I
just go to the doctor and they tell me what
to do, Like, especially for us, that's how we die.
So that doesn't work. So we we have to be
we have to be informed. We have to be able
to ask questions we have and we need to be
empowered to do that. And when insurance payers started to
(21:49):
see because we tracked data that and anecdotally they're looking
for twenty five hundred dollars of cost savings when working
with a dietician. And we have proof because we've been
tracking data since the beginning of time of like ten
thousand dollars of cost savings per patient, which extrapolated out
is like ten billion dollars in savings. So that's what
the tayer cares about very much. The health systems very
much care about making money. So you got to like
(22:12):
teach them, like talk to them in that regard. But
I think I think it is very powerful to see, right,
Like I keep Polina Health keeps less acute patients out
of physicians' offices because we're tracking the data every single
week and the patient has lost twenty pounds but is
on mets Foreman and their A one C is high.
So I say, I'm going to send the note to
the doctor, and I send the notes to the doctors
(22:33):
and then I say, hey, patient has lost twenty pounds,
A one C is still high. I think they need
an adjustment of medication for met foreman, and here is
all the data that we've tracked, and the doctor's like great,
and they increase the script and then all of a sudden,
the patient's AEC the blood sugar is going down, and
then ultimately the A one C is going down and
it's like okay, great, also perfect, this is what we want.
Speaker 2 (22:54):
And we are making.
Speaker 3 (22:55):
Sure that patients check in with their primary care physicians
more than just once a year. Because you come to
us and you want to lower a lab value, well
I don't. I can't write an order for you to
get labs. So you can go back and see your
doctor and then you can talk to your doctor and
then they'll send you back to us. And so then
that's how people get paid, and that's how people get
(23:15):
better care. And it makes sense. So it's this education piece,
right is that people? Because you just keep seeing on
you know, on the internet, you're like, oh, I have
to buy this digital course for metabolic health and lowering
my cortisol and I'm gonna read this and it's gonna work.
And it's like you don't have to do that. You
can just use your insurance. I promise probably have twenty
(23:36):
six sessions and like maybe a twenty dollars copae maybe.
Speaker 1 (23:39):
Yeah, yeah, what is in your EDC your everyday carry?
You are a healthcare nutrition CEO, and I'm sure you
have something that you need before you leave the house,
the apartment, the condo, the brownstone, wherever you at. What
do you need daily just to make life happen.
Speaker 3 (24:00):
Actually have to write everything down in my head when
I wake up, and I have to write it down
before I go to sleep. And then that quiets the noise,
and that allows me to be more strategic. It allows
me to be less reactive. It allows me to listen
to myself and to look to myself to be validated and.
Speaker 2 (24:23):
Not outside and so like that that is the thing.
Speaker 3 (24:27):
And then like all the other things, right, like you know,
I exercise every day and if I don't need a
vegetable twice a day, I feel guilty.
Speaker 2 (24:32):
Kind of thing.
Speaker 3 (24:34):
But that's but that stuff, that stuff doesn't really matter
because I do that, I don't drink out the hall
and I still got cancer in twenty twenty three, So
like that's not it. It's the taking the time to
think through you know who your authentic self is.
Speaker 2 (24:50):
And like how can you live like that?
Speaker 3 (24:53):
And so for me, it is very much therapeutic to
like write down all of my feelings and look at
them and then I don't feel like I have to
be so react if it's so compulsive.
Speaker 1 (25:01):
So this is not just like a list of to do.
This is a journal.
Speaker 3 (25:04):
This is yeah, because like what's in my brain today.
I feel this mm hm. I feel this because of this,
and this is how I'm looking at it, and this
is and I just write and I don't necessarily go
back and like reread it. I just get it out
of my brain. Yeah, so it doesn't spill out and
affect you when we're having dinner. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:21):
Yeah. How do you think about Vanessa's voice? I mean,
you're on these big platforms and people listen to what
you have to say, and how do you when you
you talked about, you know, your journaling, so you're getting
at the junk out or the good stuff out. You
need it all out, so you're not giving them things
that you don't want to. But how do you consider
(25:44):
your voice and the platforms that you have?
Speaker 3 (25:47):
It seems because I am committed to telling the truth
and like not changing how I deliver the message I.
Speaker 2 (25:57):
Just this is how I talk.
Speaker 3 (25:59):
I talk like to my kids and no, Like you know,
sometimes people like it seems like you have a tone.
I'm like, I actually don't have a tone at all.
I'm very clear and directed and I've spent a lot
of my life trying to make people feel comfortable, and
so it's not a tone. It's me being really clear
and direct and not wavering from what's in my head
because I'm not here to make other people comfortable.
Speaker 2 (26:20):
And if you don't like the way that I'm saying it,
then you're I'm not for you, and that's okay, that's okay.
Speaker 3 (26:26):
So I think that's that's it, right. It is like
just staying true to myself. And then I think people
see that and they're just like, hey, I like that.
Speaker 2 (26:36):
It does.
Speaker 3 (26:36):
It feels like it's real, it's not BS, and so like,
I want to listen to more. And I think that's
how I probably have gotten this far.
Speaker 1 (26:44):
How have you learned how to lead a staff a
team of people? Like, there's one thing again to be
trained to be you know in healthcare, it's another thing
to learn how to lead as a CEO.
Speaker 3 (26:56):
M Yeah, Like I think first of all, you know,
in the beginning, when you have a star, you're in
all of the shit all of the time, and then
you have to come out because you have to do
other things. Right, Like my job mostly is you know,
talking the mission and vision of Polina and a lot
of fundraising. So you have to be very comfortable with
(27:17):
not not knowing, not being in the weeds, right, you
have to be very comfortable in it. Or you have
to trust the people around you that they understand that
everybody has a job to do. You're doing your job,
and they're doing their job, and they're going to inform
you and protect you and make sure that when you
go out to talk the vision of the mission you
are very clear on that. And so that's the thing.
(27:37):
And there's like there's this ego part like like hi, guys,
I'm a black woman, and so if I don't know
every single piece and I'm not in all of it
and I'm not controlling all of it, then what are
people going to think of me and what is happening?
So like there's all of that that lives there too, right,
And then also like the trust, like I trust you.
I presume you've done this before. That's why you're sitting here,
(27:58):
and I know that I've given you a directive. I'm
very clear. I think being clear is being kind. Someone
told me that once, and so I'm clear on it,
and you're gonna go execute. And I'm I'm really not
gonna be like telling you what to do every single
minute of the day, but I'm gonna be really watching
very closely, and I'm gonna I'm gonna just drop the
things they Have you thought about this, have you done this?
(28:21):
And then as time goes on, if I see like, okay, hey,
like it's not happening, well, then you and I have
to have a different conversation. But this micromanaging thing or
whatever is, that's.
Speaker 2 (28:30):
Not That's not how I lead.
Speaker 3 (28:32):
I want people to feel like they are supported and
they can come to me. And I do understand a
lot of what's happening in the day to day, but
that's not that's not where I excel. But if you
need me to in here to do something for you,
then I can. And you you know that. It's like
my kids, you need me to be interview, I'm moving
for you to tell me, but you got to handle
your life, handle your business.
Speaker 1 (28:52):
Yeah, and and doing research all this and learning a
lot about you. I've seen how you are very adamant
about me. We need more people of color in this space,
and more black diets 'sues, more black people in healthcare
working and not just taking advantage of the services. And
in that same vein like, how do you think we
as black technologists, black people trying to start our businesses,
(29:15):
black career minded people and professionals, how should we be
looking at healthcare and wellness and nutrition as a space
for us not only again to get services, but to
contribute and make sure we change the narrative.
Speaker 3 (29:30):
Yeah, I think some of it is on the governing bodies.
So like, for example, the barrier to become a regisry
didition is really high, and many dietitians are hundreds of
thousands of dollars in debt and they're not going to
recoup that money very easily. And if I have acumened
for sciences, am I going to go be a registered
dietitian or am I going to go be a pastic surgeon?
(29:53):
So that there's that piece, So the governing body needs
to do something. We at Kulina are doing our part right.
We have ninety percent of registered dietitians or white women.
Only forty four percent of our dietitians identify as white.
We are very deliberate about that. We have cultural humility
(30:13):
training at a regular cadence. We are very focused on
having diverse patients and diverse data sets. So that's that is,
that is not But I think also like VC needs
to invest in in this more and not the pattern
(30:34):
match like bro that saw a white space like doesn't
have there are other group practices right that like, so,
but come in and give me money, right, give me
money and then help me move forward so that.
Speaker 2 (30:46):
I can help more people of color. Right, Like, if
you think about there are.
Speaker 3 (30:49):
Three hundred million Americans, there are only eleven million Black
women eleven point two million. But we know that our
birth rate is happened, So what's happening here? Yeah, well,
and why are you also freaked out?
Speaker 2 (31:04):
Like relaxed? We do. It's not even that many of us.
Speaker 3 (31:06):
Everybody calmed down, So like that that is something then
that we should be putting dollars behind.
Speaker 2 (31:11):
What are you doing?
Speaker 3 (31:12):
It's it's when I got breast cancer. Right, White women
are diagnosed with breast cancer double black women, but black
women have a higher mortality because they do not finish
treatment a lot of times because they don't feel seen
and heard by their physicians.
Speaker 2 (31:27):
I got the.
Speaker 3 (31:28):
Most excellent care at Mount Siny Hospital because I had
I have an excellent surgeon and an excellent oncologist, and
excellent friends and an excellent, excellent radialdiation doctor. But I
also work there, and all those people are my friends,
and I leveraged every single thing, every friend I ever met.
(31:49):
I was like, oh no, I'm not waiting three months
to get a biopsy. I need one in two days.
Who was getting it for me?
Speaker 2 (31:53):
Like?
Speaker 3 (31:53):
Oh, I mean when the guy called me to tell
me that I had cancer, he was like, I also
called your ob and he was he stopped a plane
that he was born, and we've made an appointment.
Speaker 2 (32:01):
For you for this surgeon. You're going on Friday at
two o'clock.
Speaker 3 (32:05):
Right. That's what I'm doing and my team is doing
for everyone. And so when people of color come in,
my favorite patients who were vegan and the ae C
was like thirteen, and I was like this isn't it?
Like okay, like here it is, and that guy's like,
oh my al and C is five point seven. And
I'm gonna walk my daughters down the aisle, and I'm like, yep,
(32:27):
that's it. So like that is what we're doing. That
is what I'm doing. I don't Yeah, we all care
about money, because you know, I don't want to work
for the rest of my life.
Speaker 2 (32:35):
I got that.
Speaker 3 (32:36):
But like, I want people to be well and feeling
empowered and feel that they have value even when they
don't have a lot, and even when they don't understand
a lot, and they're not afraid to go to clinicians
that don't look like them. I want to do that
for them. I want and we teach people how to
do that. Right, Like you go and talk to the doctor,
(32:57):
and you're talking to the doctor with like very clearly,
with data in front of you. Doctor can't refute data.
They're not going to because it's right there and so
and so. Then you're you're coming from a position of power.
And also doctors are just practicing medicine. Don't ever forget that.
So go ask her all your questions.
Speaker 1 (33:15):
Finally, what's the best piece of advice you've ever received
about buildings home from the ground up or that you
have for buildings coround.
Speaker 3 (33:26):
I think it's like, hey, you've ever done this before,
You've gotten pretty far. Keep going and it's okay. If
it doesn't work, try something else. Just try something else.
You're doing more than ninety nine percent of the population.
I think it's very easy to look at this and
(33:47):
think that it's glamorous and it's sexy and it's so fun,
and like that's not the case.
Speaker 2 (33:51):
And I also don't think that.
Speaker 3 (33:52):
Going to work and getting a paycheck is a planaras
seeing fun right crisis all the time, everyone's doing hard
work right, stay at home mom is doing hard work.
Mama goes to work and doing hard work. And I
think I think that the thing that I have learned
is this, You're not unique. You're actually part of a collective.
You're all part of a collective. If you've got that
in your brain now and understood that most people feel
(34:17):
the weight of the world and it feels heavy and
they're struggling with things, and you gave more people grace,
you probably get farther.
Speaker 1 (34:24):
Black Tech Green Money is a production to Blavity Afro
Tech on the Black Effect podcast network in Nightheart Media
is produced by Morgan Debaun and me Well Lucas with
the addigital Production support by Kate McDonald, Sayah Ergan, and
Jayda McGee. Special thank you to Michael Davis in Love Beach.
Learn more about my Guessing Other Tech. This shop is
an innovatives at afrotech dot com. The video version this
(34:44):
episode will drop to Black Tech Green Money on YouTube,
so well tap it in enjoy your Black Tech Green
Money shit us to somebody, go get your money. He's
in love
Host
Will Lucas
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