November 26, 2024 • 31 mins
In this episode of BLK LIT, Jacquees and Anita Kopacz delve into the world of Black literature, focusing on influential writers like Octavia Butler and Langston Hughes. They discuss the themes of Anita's book 'Shallow Waters', exploring its historical context, emotional depth, and the healing journey it offers readers. The conversation touches on the significance of dreams in the creative process, the cultural importance of Black mermaid stories, and the empowerment of Black women through storytelling. Anita shares her journey into writing, the challenges of overcoming insecurities, and the process behind her upcoming book 'The Wind on Her Tongue'. In this engaging conversation, Anita shares her methods for staying connected to her creative flow, including creating a sacred writing space and the unique practice of the shake dance to release energy. They delve into Anita's deep connection with the Orishas, particularly Yemaya and Oya, and her profound experiences with ayahuasca in Peru. The episode ends with Anita reading an excerpt from her new book, "The Wind On Her Tongue".
Chapters
00:00 Celebrating Black Literature and Legacy
02:08 The Power of Afrofuturism
05:09 Writing as a Spiritual Practice
10:02 Yemaya and the Call to Create
15:13 Healing Through Storytelling
19:52 The Connection to Orishas
25:01 The Journey of Writing 'The Wind on Her Tongue'
The Wind On Her Tongue is NOW Available for Pre-Order and Available Everywhere books are sold, next year on January 21st.
Read: Shallow Waters by Anita Kopacz
Learn More: Anita Kopacz
Connect with the Host: Jacquees Thomas @_ThatsPeace
Join The Collective Writing Community BLKWritersRoom.com
A Black Effect Original Series
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
My name is Jacques Thomas, and you're listening to black Lit,
a podcast about Black literature and the stories behind the storytellers.
Welcome back to black Lit. This is a very special
episode dedicated to celebrating the now. It's our way of
(00:25):
saying we see, appreciate, and value the journey of those
who are forging their own path and doing the work
to create their own legacy. There are many creators who
have chosen the written word as their way to express
and empower, and with your help, we will be highlighting
(00:45):
as many as we can writers who have committed to
crafting stories that add to the rich tapestry of our
culture and community. We created this as a way to
share what we are currently reading and to offer these
future legends. They're flowers right now in real time.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
We've always thought of our heroes as having to do
with death and war. If anything can prevent you being
a writer, don't be one.
Speaker 3 (01:15):
She didn't really get her flowers as a result, but
it's nice to see her getting them now.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
Afro Futurism is about an opportunity for a cultural reset
with the Black community.
Speaker 3 (01:26):
What we writers are charged with doing is reminding people
of the.
Speaker 1 (01:33):
Truth interesting that we always have to do this repair
work with black literature once our luminaries are gone. This
isn't just black writing, this is American writing, and these
people are the best of the best.
Speaker 4 (01:45):
This feeling common in both writing and in other forms
of magic, that you are the impetus. Maybe you are
what's initiating this, but you are not the whole thing,
because it is a co creation with your audience.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
Magic is just a part of the fabric to me
of being black. And so yes, if we're putting it
out there, yes, call it science fiction fantasy, but it's
pretty much reality. Can we call it black reality?
Speaker 1 (02:19):
Today we honor Anita Kopec, an award winning writer and
spiritual advisor. She is a former editor in chief of
Heart and Soul magazine and is currently celebrating her new novel,
The Wind on Her Tongue. We learn about what initially
drove her to the world of science fiction and what
inspired her profound connection with the Ameya, the Goddess of
(02:44):
the Ocean.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
I've always loved science fiction, and I would dive into
it when I was young, and probably I think it
was when I was a teenager that one of my
friends gave me Wild Seed by Octavia Butler, I had
no idea how my life was about to change. I
(03:08):
opened that book. I have chills right now just thinking
about it. It was the first time that I saw
myself in science fiction. And what it did for me was,
I mean, I was so connected to the characters. I
was able to go on the emotional rides with her.
(03:29):
I could understand what they were talking about. Even though
it might have been like ancient things. There was like
it felt like there were things opening up in my
ancestral memories as I was reading it, and I just
after that, I was like, I really kind of only
want to read black science fiction from now, and there
(03:53):
wasn't that much back then, and eventually that's what I
ended up writing. It's really funny because for me, I
love so in Octavia Butler's kindred right for me, the
way that she weaved the supernatural and with reality, that
(04:16):
is what I really fell in love with, where it
kind of just like, oh, this could actually be a
real story, right, Like that's what I wanted people to
feel with my books. And for me, what's really interesting
is that we call it science fiction or fantasy, but
(04:37):
for me, that's just how black people are, like that
is my reality of how black people are. Even in
my family, there are my aunties who have dreams like, hey,
I had a dream about fish, someone's pregnant, you know,
like people know things, you know, like there's is just
(05:00):
a part of the fabric to me of being black.
And so yes, if we're putting it out there, yes,
call it science fiction, fantasy, but it's pretty much reality.
Can we call it black reality?
Speaker 1 (05:15):
How do you stay connected to that frequency so that
you don't lose it while you're in the process. Yeah,
is there any practices that you're absolutely yes.
Speaker 2 (05:28):
I like to have my writing space feel like a sanctuary.
I will light a candle, I will light incense, I
you know, dedicate the time. And for me, that's how
I kind of step into it. And if you can,
if you're able to, it's you know. I was able
(05:49):
to go to well, I want to say writers retreats,
but it wasn't a full on writer's retreat. One was
a residency, which was great because I'm not used to
having just non interrupted time. I have three kids, right like,
there's a lot going on, and so I had a
whole week to write and then I had about four
(06:12):
or five days of uninterrupted time where I just went
to a friend's house and Martha's vineyard and wrote. And
so within those times I wrote most of the book.
The second book, The Wind on Her Tongue, I wrote
in about three months. I had six months to write it,
and three of those months I called the massage time,
(06:33):
where the story is being kind of massaged out in
my head. Right I'm figuring it out. Some might say
it looks like procrastination, but it's not. Fully it is
like figuring out what I'm writing writing, you know, some
of it is writing in my head. And then you know,
(06:55):
within three months was when it just I let it
flow out.
Speaker 1 (07:00):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (07:01):
So have you ever done the shake dance?
Speaker 1 (07:04):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (07:04):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (07:07):
How do you use that? Because, oh my gosh, if
there were, like, if there were like cameras in my house,
I just wish I could have showed you. When I
finished the first draft of this, I went downstairs and
I put on like some drum music, and I started
(07:31):
doing the shake dance, and all of a sudden, it
felt as though I was letting go of the characters,
as if the characters were living inside of me. And
I was bawling, crying, like it was so emotional. It
was just like I just felt Oya coming out, like
like just coming out, and so I just was shaking
(07:53):
and aloud. It was so intense, and I'm like, okay,
all right, I'm I'm just going with this, I'm letting
this go. I'm allowing this energy to flow. There's so
much that goes into writing, depending on what it is
that you're writing. You're creating these characters, these worlds, right,
(08:15):
all of that is a living in you. And so
I didn't even realize until I shook it all out
of me, right, and I was like, oh my gosh.
So yes, that was an example of a shake dance.
And it's interesting because the first time I ever heard
about the shake dance or read about it, it's Aboriginal,
(08:39):
so it's from the Aborigine people. So I put it
in because I was putting in a lot of different
things that I learned from different cultures and creating the
people within the book. But when I first heard about it,
I was like, oh my gosh. And my sister Yvanna
actually like got in it and I could. You can
(09:03):
feel it. You can feel like the difference after it's
like lighter, right, it's like after you've shaken it off,
it's like, oh, I feel lighter. I feel lighter.
Speaker 1 (09:17):
According to Santa Ria and the Euroba traditions, Yameya is
the mother of all Arisha's and of humanity. She is
the patron spirit of the rivers and oceans. She is
also known as the Queen of the Sea. Yameyya is
the main character and one could consider her the co
(09:40):
creator Twanita's novel Shallow Waters.
Speaker 2 (09:47):
The story that was coming through me before COVID started,
and then once we went into the isolation was when
I was like really dove in and so it was
already very much active and coming through, and it definitely
felt like once the George Floyd happened and all of
(10:12):
those intense moments, I was like, oh, the book actually
needs to come out now, right, So that's when the
process happened for me to like really finish it, get
it done, and get it out there, and just it
felt like the timing was very interesting because as I
(10:34):
was writing before there was I did a lot of
research on you know, are there other stories about ye
me yeah? Or black Mermaids, And I was looking it
up and googling all the time, and I was like,
how has this not happened yet? There's no stories. Twenty
twenty one, there were like seven Black Mermaid stories that
(10:58):
came out, and then Disney came out with their Black
Little Mermaid. Everything came out at the same time, like
it was just like room, room room, and I was like, okay, yea,
may I was definitely talking to us. You know when
they say that, there's like the energy goes out and
there you know people who like grab onto the ideas
(11:20):
and create them. I remember Prince and Michael Jackson used
to say that they could hear the songs and the
ethers and they'd grab them before the other one would,
because sometimes they would write such similar songs. And so
it was definitely that moment where so many of us
heard Yamaya's call. And one of the things that I
(11:40):
felt Yameya was saying to me is that my daughters
are rising, and so it felt like all of this
energy was to help us rise like black women.
Speaker 1 (11:54):
That's a powerful message to receive. I think that's a
beautiful way of understanding that things are synergy. There's a
synergetic connection to frequencies and how things are received, and
there's room for us all. There's room for us all.
Speaker 2 (12:12):
I think that is really a part of just colonization,
to make people feel like there's not enough room, that
there can only be one black person that's doing this shit,
you know, like it's like, no, there's room for us all.
And I think that is the beautiful thing because even
if someone is doing something that's similar to you, it's
(12:33):
never going to be the same. We are all our
own blueprint and our translation of whatever it is that
we're receiving from the ethers is going to be completely
different from anyone else. And so it's so important for
us to like that is our responsibility is if we
are hearing things, if we are feeling that a creation
(12:54):
needs to come through, all our job is just to
do it it like And the funny thing is is
that the process of doing it, when you actually begin,
that's when you know, like the things will come up
that stop us. So whether it's insecurity, or I don't
have enough time, or I don't have enough money, whatever
(13:17):
our excuse is for pretty much anything, it'll come up, right,
it'll come up, Oh it's too hard, it's too emotional, right,
and so whatever that is, it's going to come up,
and it's going to come up hard, right if it's
some Like for me, Shallow Waters was my sole project.
I've done a lot of projects. When I did Shallow Waters,
(13:40):
it felt like I did what I came here to do,
and it was I had never felt like that with
anything else. And so with that type of I guess
even pressure on myself, I had all of my insecurities
come up, like from up in until the last edit
(14:02):
and I was turning it in, I was like, oh,
this is shit, this is horrible, Like that's what that was,
like my last thing. And I was like, you know
what that is like probably a young voice in my
head from when I was really little, right, And it's
those voices that you can't listen to. Yes, they're there,
(14:25):
they might always be there, who knows, But it's like
certain ones where it's just like eventually you're just like, oh, actually, yeah,
you're not you're not real. I hear you. But even
if you're saying it's shit, I'm still going to turn
it in. I'm still going to do it if it's shit.
Oh well it's shit, right. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:47):
I remember in an interview that I was watching with you,
you said you don't like work off an outline or
anything like. It just kind of comes to you and
then you just.
Speaker 2 (14:57):
Just write it.
Speaker 1 (14:58):
Yeah, I know that was the case for a Shallow
Or is that the case for your new.
Speaker 2 (15:02):
Book, The Wind of Her Tongue and this is it
is about Oya, who is Ya Maya's daughter. It comes
out January twenty first, and so yes. So the interesting
thing about this book was the timeline was different because
I had six months to write it. I did a
(15:23):
book proposal, which I didn't do a book proposal for
Shallow Waters. And so within a book proposal, there is
an outline that you put together. So I had a
rough outline, so I did know what was pretty much
going to happen within the book. Things definitely changed because
I'm definitely a flow writer, right, like I'm a flow ride.
(15:45):
No sorry, nice, my poor kids, my mom joke. Oh god,
So it's great. I go with the flow, like what
is being said? What is what? Can I feel? It
(16:06):
feels sometimes like it's channeling, right, like it's there's the
information just comes through and almost feels like in a dream,
right where there's moments in dreams where everything comes together
and sometimes like oh my gosh, I'm so creative. I
can't believe I made that happen in my dream, right like,
(16:27):
And that's sometimes how it happens, where the story will
come together in a way that I didn't even intend
it to and it's like ooh, I love that. And
so I had moments like that for both Shallow Waters.
It was interesting. I often like to say that I
was being harassed by the spirit world to write it,
(16:50):
because I felt like I felt like, yeah, yeah, I
was sitting like at the edge of my bed and
telling me the story. And for me, just stories, movies,
anything that was about the time of this, the slave
trade and things like that, they get me so angry.
(17:12):
I don't like to read it. Usually I don't like
to watch it. I just feel like super angry and like,
you know, lots of hatred when I do that. And
so I was like, there can't be I don't know,
like why, why is this what it needs to be about?
And then I realized it was because I needed to heal.
(17:36):
I needed to check in with myself and my ancestors
and heal that part of my history so that I
can go on. And so there were so many moments
while I was writing where I just had these moments
where I was like, oh my gosh, this happened to
(17:56):
my ancestors right, like my great great great grandmother, grandfathers,
And it was really emotional to like think of it
as it really happening. And so one of my intentions
with the book is that it causes healing for people
(18:17):
who read it right, like healing for that rather than
feeling enraged right after you read it. It's more of
a healing and inspiration. Is my love letter to black women,
and so I wanted black women to feel like they're
ready to go out and do what they came here
to do. Whatever that was right, like having the inspiration
(18:42):
to do what you came here to do and remember
who we really are.
Speaker 1 (18:54):
You are listening to Black Lit, I'm so curious learn
more about your experiences in Peru and if you still
feel connected to Yameya.
Speaker 2 (19:07):
I feel very connected to her. Actually, one of my
friends just sent me a message. She said she had
a dream that we were sitting at the ocean and
that Yameya was telling her to remind me to continue
to honor her right and love her. And I'm like, oh, absolutely.
(19:33):
But the funny thing is that I've been feeling like
I need to go to an ocean. So my way
of honoring Yameya, how I love to honor Yameya is
to give some molasses to the ocean and just you know,
honor her. Honor how she has watched over our ancestors
they went over and the ones that didn't make it.
(19:54):
I think over a million were you either jumped off
of the slave ships or were thrown off, and so
there were quite a few in the genocide. Right, it
was a genocide, and she watched over their spirits and
so you know, there's just a lot of gratitude that
I do. So that was that message this morning was
(20:14):
a reminder to go to the beach, right, to go
to the ocean and honor her. I do feel very
close to her, and especially writing about her daughter, who
was Oya, so I definitely felt like she was around
and like guiding for me. I know all of the
(20:37):
Orisha have very like mother vibes, but Oya felt like
the homegirl, right, Like Yameya was like mother, don't mother, right,
Like She's like, I'm gonna teach you this lesson and
Oya was like magical, witchy homegirl and was like let
(21:02):
me tell you, let me tell you the story. I
had all of these preconceived notions about what it was
going to be like writing about Oya, because she's known
to be an unbeatable warrior. A lot of people say
she's angry, right, the angry black woman, right, And so
I had all these preconceived notions going in. And when
(21:25):
I dove into her story, she was not angry. She's
just powerful, powerful, that's it. Like I had there was Yes,
maybe she got angry a few times within the book,
but that wasn't who she was, right, And I was like, okay,
this is interesting speaking to it was speaking directly to that, right,
(21:50):
how many people might see black women, right if they
get angry, and then you know, if we're powerful and
get angry, it's threatening, right Yeah, And so yes, Oya
can be thought of as threatening for sure. She's an
unbeatable warrior. You try to go against her, there's no
(22:12):
way to beat her, like, that's who she is. And
so oh, so I love that you asked about Peru
because I just was telling someone about my experience in Peru,
like going into what I learned from it, and so
(22:34):
I did. I practiced ayahuasca while I was in Peru,
and that was to me the most palpable feeling of
being close to Yameya. So as soon as the trip started,
(22:55):
it was like, all of a sudden, all this blue
light came and then it turned into me being underwater
in this beautiful, like clear ocean, and I'm like, right,
I'm swimming. I could breathe underwater. And then I look
and there's this huge yeah me, yeah, huge black mermaid
(23:19):
and I like swim up to her and she just
takes me into her arm like I was her baby,
like literally holding me like this, and all I could
hear her say, so it wasn't like a talking with
a mouth. It was like just like speaking with her mind.
Speaker 1 (23:39):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:39):
And I just kept hearing her say, you can have
whatever you want. You can have whatever you want. There
was no butt and if after it was just you
can have whatever you want. And I felt so held
so taking care of so watched over and meanwhile in
(24:06):
the physical world reality, something totally different was going on.
My body. I like, I like my pants. Oh wow,
my body is like shaking. Apparently the that's.
Speaker 1 (24:23):
The intense part you were mentioning.
Speaker 2 (24:27):
I was talking about the shaman. He would come in
I would hear him go Anita. His name is Javier Anita,
and it was like his face would come into the
water right and he would ask me like, are you okay?
And I'd be like yes, and then he'd go away right.
(24:49):
He told me later on that's how he knew that
I was going to be okay, because I just anytime
he actually asked me, I would say yes, yes, yes.
I'm going to read a little bit from chapter eight
my new book, The Wind on Her Tongue. This book
is about Oya, who is Yemeya's daughter, and she is
(25:14):
the Orisha of the Storm and so many other things
like I talked about before. She is known as the
unbeatable Warrior, and she also stands at the gates of
the graveyard, so if anyone wants to speak to an ancestor,
they go through Oya to speak to their ancestors. And
(25:35):
there's so many other things, but we'll go into this now.
The river harbor reeks of spoiled fish. The slight breeze
flows through us, but not enough to blow away the stench.
The wooden planks beneath our feet creak and grown as
the water splashes through the small gaps between them. It's
(25:58):
a bustling scene as fishermen themselves emptying their nets filled
with catfish, bluegills, and bass. Among the catch are crawfish,
their tiny claws waving as they're released from the nets.
The catfish are the most curious to me, with their
longo teas and smooth skin. Cosette had explained to me
(26:20):
some of the strange and new breeds of fish that
live in the fresh water. The bluegills, with their vibrant
sapphire and green scales, shimmer like jewels as the smaller
ones are released back into the water. We are silent
as the fishermen weave in and out around us, rarely
even acknowledging our presence. Murray has a pouch that seems
(26:41):
to be dripping some sort of liquid from the bottom.
Collette squeezes my hand as we walk up to an
empty spot on the dot. Elisa Murray asked, that's in Criel.
Collette nods. Our white skirts flutter in the wind as
Ellen and Marie stand on either side of Collette. I
(27:04):
gently release her hand and turn away from the ladies,
almost back to back with Colette fulfilling my role as
lookout and guard for the ceremony. Ellen ties a white
rope around me and Colette so I can guide her home.
After the ritual, she has to walk backward without turning around,
in order to reverse the spell. I look toward the
(27:27):
dock and see the men rushing around, barely batting an
eye in our direction. Ellen and Marie begin to chant.
My strict instructions were not to turn around, no matter
what I heard. They too have to look toward the water,
not at me, until the river is out of sight.
As their voices begin to swell, chanting words in an
(27:49):
unfamiliar tongue, the fishermen take heed. I hold their gazes
their judgment until my winds can no longer take it.
The boat begins to rock in the breeze, and the
men grab their hats and secure their vessels. Buckets of
their catch flip over, and the men have to tend
to their duties. They seem to forget about us. Once again.
(28:13):
I hear Marie yell a phrase in Yureba, the language
my mama tried to teach me as a child. I
believe she proclaimed something to the tune of be gone.
She then throws something into the water, perhaps the pouch
she was holding the rope around my waist begins to
pull and I plant my feet on the ground. I
(28:33):
will not turn around. I feel Collette behind me as
she begins to shake uncontrollably. I can barely hold my ground.
I widen my stance to withstand the pressure. I grab
the rope and pull it slightly away from my stomach.
I can feel the beginnings of a rope burn. It
takes all of my willpower not to check Collette. All
(28:55):
the while I keep the fishermen busy with the weather.
I cannot risk them interrupting the sandrmony and perhaps losing
Colette altogether. I think Ellen and Marie hold Colette for
a moment because the pressure subsides, but Colette has begun
moaning and grunting, as if she's giving birth. My hands
shake as my walls of protection slowly erode. Colette screens
(29:17):
in agony, and the gusts of wind pick up speed.
The fishermen grabbed the last of their catch and run
for cover. One yells out to me as he passes,
A hurricane is coming. Get yourself to safety. The wind
on her tongue.
Speaker 1 (29:37):
By Anita colepatch available in the New Year on January
twenty first, twenty twenty five and available now to pre order.
Anita also shares the opening quote from Shallow Waters, which
is in total alignment and speaks to the synergy that
we mentioned earlier. It's a beautiful hint to the luminary
(29:58):
who will be guiding us on the next extended series.
Speaker 2 (30:04):
Look at my face, dark as the night, yet shining
like the sun with love's true light. I am the
black girl who crossed the dark sea, carrying in my
body the seed of the Free.
Speaker 1 (30:23):
Black Lit is a Black Effect original series in partnership
with iHeart Media. Is written and created by myself, Jack
Quiesse Thomas and executive produced alongside Dolly s. Bishop. Chanelle
Collins is the director of production, Head of Talent Nicole Spence,
writer producer Jason Torres, Our researcher and producer is Jabbari Davis,
(30:46):
and the mix and sound design is by the humble
Duane Crawford and special thanks to Anita cooepatch. Gratitude is
an action, so I have to give praise to those
who took the time out to write a review. Please
keep sharing and we will promise to bring more writers
and greater episodes to you. Also, if you're looking to
(31:08):
become a writer or in search of a supportive writing community,
join me for a free creative writing session on my
website Black writers Room dot com, b LK Writer's Room
dot com, or hit me up directly for more details
at Underscore t h A T S P E A
(31:28):
c E.
Speaker 2 (31:30):
That's Peace.
My name is Jacques Thomas, and you're listening to black Lit,
a podcast about Black literature and the stories behind the storytellers.
Welcome back to black Lit. This is a very special
episode dedicated to celebrating the now. It's our way of
(00:25):
saying we see, appreciate, and value the journey of those
who are forging their own path and doing the work
to create their own legacy. There are many creators who
have chosen the written word as their way to express
and empower, and with your help, we will be highlighting
(00:45):
as many as we can writers who have committed to
crafting stories that add to the rich tapestry of our
culture and community. We created this as a way to
share what we are currently reading and to offer these
future legends. They're flowers right now in real time.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
We've always thought of our heroes as having to do
with death and war. If anything can prevent you being
a writer, don't be one.
Speaker 3 (01:15):
She didn't really get her flowers as a result, but
it's nice to see her getting them now.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
Afro Futurism is about an opportunity for a cultural reset
with the Black community.
Speaker 3 (01:26):
What we writers are charged with doing is reminding people
of the.
Speaker 1 (01:33):
Truth interesting that we always have to do this repair
work with black literature once our luminaries are gone. This
isn't just black writing, this is American writing, and these
people are the best of the best.
Speaker 4 (01:45):
This feeling common in both writing and in other forms
of magic, that you are the impetus. Maybe you are
what's initiating this, but you are not the whole thing,
because it is a co creation with your audience.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
Magic is just a part of the fabric to me
of being black. And so yes, if we're putting it
out there, yes, call it science fiction fantasy, but it's
pretty much reality. Can we call it black reality?
Speaker 1 (02:19):
Today we honor Anita Kopec, an award winning writer and
spiritual advisor. She is a former editor in chief of
Heart and Soul magazine and is currently celebrating her new novel,
The Wind on Her Tongue. We learn about what initially
drove her to the world of science fiction and what
inspired her profound connection with the Ameya, the Goddess of
(02:44):
the Ocean.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
I've always loved science fiction, and I would dive into
it when I was young, and probably I think it
was when I was a teenager that one of my
friends gave me Wild Seed by Octavia Butler, I had
no idea how my life was about to change. I
(03:08):
opened that book. I have chills right now just thinking
about it. It was the first time that I saw
myself in science fiction. And what it did for me was,
I mean, I was so connected to the characters. I
was able to go on the emotional rides with her.
(03:29):
I could understand what they were talking about. Even though
it might have been like ancient things. There was like
it felt like there were things opening up in my
ancestral memories as I was reading it, and I just
after that, I was like, I really kind of only
want to read black science fiction from now, and there
(03:53):
wasn't that much back then, and eventually that's what I
ended up writing. It's really funny because for me, I
love so in Octavia Butler's kindred right for me, the
way that she weaved the supernatural and with reality, that
(04:16):
is what I really fell in love with, where it
kind of just like, oh, this could actually be a
real story, right, Like that's what I wanted people to
feel with my books. And for me, what's really interesting
is that we call it science fiction or fantasy, but
(04:37):
for me, that's just how black people are, like that
is my reality of how black people are. Even in
my family, there are my aunties who have dreams like, hey,
I had a dream about fish, someone's pregnant, you know,
like people know things, you know, like there's is just
(05:00):
a part of the fabric to me of being black.
And so yes, if we're putting it out there, yes,
call it science fiction, fantasy, but it's pretty much reality.
Can we call it black reality?
Speaker 1 (05:15):
How do you stay connected to that frequency so that
you don't lose it while you're in the process. Yeah,
is there any practices that you're absolutely yes.
Speaker 2 (05:28):
I like to have my writing space feel like a sanctuary.
I will light a candle, I will light incense, I
you know, dedicate the time. And for me, that's how
I kind of step into it. And if you can,
if you're able to, it's you know. I was able
(05:49):
to go to well, I want to say writers retreats,
but it wasn't a full on writer's retreat. One was
a residency, which was great because I'm not used to
having just non interrupted time. I have three kids, right like,
there's a lot going on, and so I had a
whole week to write and then I had about four
(06:12):
or five days of uninterrupted time where I just went
to a friend's house and Martha's vineyard and wrote. And
so within those times I wrote most of the book.
The second book, The Wind on Her Tongue, I wrote
in about three months. I had six months to write it,
and three of those months I called the massage time,
(06:33):
where the story is being kind of massaged out in
my head. Right I'm figuring it out. Some might say
it looks like procrastination, but it's not. Fully it is
like figuring out what I'm writing writing, you know, some
of it is writing in my head. And then you know,
(06:55):
within three months was when it just I let it
flow out.
Speaker 1 (07:00):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (07:01):
So have you ever done the shake dance?
Speaker 1 (07:04):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (07:04):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (07:07):
How do you use that? Because, oh my gosh, if
there were, like, if there were like cameras in my house,
I just wish I could have showed you. When I
finished the first draft of this, I went downstairs and
I put on like some drum music, and I started
(07:31):
doing the shake dance, and all of a sudden, it
felt as though I was letting go of the characters,
as if the characters were living inside of me. And
I was bawling, crying, like it was so emotional. It
was just like I just felt Oya coming out, like
like just coming out, and so I just was shaking
(07:53):
and aloud. It was so intense, and I'm like, okay,
all right, I'm I'm just going with this, I'm letting
this go. I'm allowing this energy to flow. There's so
much that goes into writing, depending on what it is
that you're writing. You're creating these characters, these worlds, right,
(08:15):
all of that is a living in you. And so
I didn't even realize until I shook it all out
of me, right, and I was like, oh my gosh.
So yes, that was an example of a shake dance.
And it's interesting because the first time I ever heard
about the shake dance or read about it, it's Aboriginal,
(08:39):
so it's from the Aborigine people. So I put it
in because I was putting in a lot of different
things that I learned from different cultures and creating the
people within the book. But when I first heard about it,
I was like, oh my gosh. And my sister Yvanna
actually like got in it and I could. You can
(09:03):
feel it. You can feel like the difference after it's
like lighter, right, it's like after you've shaken it off,
it's like, oh, I feel lighter. I feel lighter.
Speaker 1 (09:17):
According to Santa Ria and the Euroba traditions, Yameya is
the mother of all Arisha's and of humanity. She is
the patron spirit of the rivers and oceans. She is
also known as the Queen of the Sea. Yameyya is
the main character and one could consider her the co
(09:40):
creator Twanita's novel Shallow Waters.
Speaker 2 (09:47):
The story that was coming through me before COVID started,
and then once we went into the isolation was when
I was like really dove in and so it was
already very much active and coming through, and it definitely
felt like once the George Floyd happened and all of
(10:12):
those intense moments, I was like, oh, the book actually
needs to come out now, right, So that's when the
process happened for me to like really finish it, get
it done, and get it out there, and just it
felt like the timing was very interesting because as I
(10:34):
was writing before there was I did a lot of
research on you know, are there other stories about ye
me yeah? Or black Mermaids, And I was looking it
up and googling all the time, and I was like,
how has this not happened yet? There's no stories. Twenty
twenty one, there were like seven Black Mermaid stories that
(10:58):
came out, and then Disney came out with their Black
Little Mermaid. Everything came out at the same time, like
it was just like room, room room, and I was like, okay, yea,
may I was definitely talking to us. You know when
they say that, there's like the energy goes out and
there you know people who like grab onto the ideas
(11:20):
and create them. I remember Prince and Michael Jackson used
to say that they could hear the songs and the
ethers and they'd grab them before the other one would,
because sometimes they would write such similar songs. And so
it was definitely that moment where so many of us
heard Yamaya's call. And one of the things that I
(11:40):
felt Yameya was saying to me is that my daughters
are rising, and so it felt like all of this
energy was to help us rise like black women.
Speaker 1 (11:54):
That's a powerful message to receive. I think that's a
beautiful way of understanding that things are synergy. There's a
synergetic connection to frequencies and how things are received, and
there's room for us all. There's room for us all.
Speaker 2 (12:12):
I think that is really a part of just colonization,
to make people feel like there's not enough room, that
there can only be one black person that's doing this shit,
you know, like it's like, no, there's room for us all.
And I think that is the beautiful thing because even
if someone is doing something that's similar to you, it's
(12:33):
never going to be the same. We are all our
own blueprint and our translation of whatever it is that
we're receiving from the ethers is going to be completely
different from anyone else. And so it's so important for
us to like that is our responsibility is if we
are hearing things, if we are feeling that a creation
(12:54):
needs to come through, all our job is just to
do it it like And the funny thing is is
that the process of doing it, when you actually begin,
that's when you know, like the things will come up
that stop us. So whether it's insecurity, or I don't
have enough time, or I don't have enough money, whatever
(13:17):
our excuse is for pretty much anything, it'll come up, right,
it'll come up, Oh it's too hard, it's too emotional, right,
and so whatever that is, it's going to come up,
and it's going to come up hard, right if it's
some Like for me, Shallow Waters was my sole project.
I've done a lot of projects. When I did Shallow Waters,
(13:40):
it felt like I did what I came here to do,
and it was I had never felt like that with
anything else. And so with that type of I guess
even pressure on myself, I had all of my insecurities
come up, like from up in until the last edit
(14:02):
and I was turning it in, I was like, oh,
this is shit, this is horrible, Like that's what that was,
like my last thing. And I was like, you know
what that is like probably a young voice in my
head from when I was really little, right, And it's
those voices that you can't listen to. Yes, they're there,
(14:25):
they might always be there, who knows, But it's like
certain ones where it's just like eventually you're just like, oh, actually, yeah,
you're not you're not real. I hear you. But even
if you're saying it's shit, I'm still going to turn
it in. I'm still going to do it if it's shit.
Oh well it's shit, right. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:47):
I remember in an interview that I was watching with you,
you said you don't like work off an outline or
anything like. It just kind of comes to you and
then you just.
Speaker 2 (14:57):
Just write it.
Speaker 1 (14:58):
Yeah, I know that was the case for a Shallow
Or is that the case for your new.
Speaker 2 (15:02):
Book, The Wind of Her Tongue and this is it
is about Oya, who is Ya Maya's daughter. It comes
out January twenty first, and so yes. So the interesting
thing about this book was the timeline was different because
I had six months to write it. I did a
(15:23):
book proposal, which I didn't do a book proposal for
Shallow Waters. And so within a book proposal, there is
an outline that you put together. So I had a
rough outline, so I did know what was pretty much
going to happen within the book. Things definitely changed because
I'm definitely a flow writer, right, like I'm a flow ride.
(15:45):
No sorry, nice, my poor kids, my mom joke. Oh god,
So it's great. I go with the flow, like what
is being said? What is what? Can I feel? It
(16:06):
feels sometimes like it's channeling, right, like it's there's the
information just comes through and almost feels like in a dream,
right where there's moments in dreams where everything comes together
and sometimes like oh my gosh, I'm so creative. I
can't believe I made that happen in my dream, right like,
(16:27):
And that's sometimes how it happens, where the story will
come together in a way that I didn't even intend
it to and it's like ooh, I love that. And
so I had moments like that for both Shallow Waters.
It was interesting. I often like to say that I
was being harassed by the spirit world to write it,
(16:50):
because I felt like I felt like, yeah, yeah, I
was sitting like at the edge of my bed and
telling me the story. And for me, just stories, movies,
anything that was about the time of this, the slave
trade and things like that, they get me so angry.
(17:12):
I don't like to read it. Usually I don't like
to watch it. I just feel like super angry and like,
you know, lots of hatred when I do that. And
so I was like, there can't be I don't know,
like why, why is this what it needs to be about?
And then I realized it was because I needed to heal.
(17:36):
I needed to check in with myself and my ancestors
and heal that part of my history so that I
can go on. And so there were so many moments
while I was writing where I just had these moments
where I was like, oh my gosh, this happened to
(17:56):
my ancestors right, like my great great great grandmother, grandfathers,
And it was really emotional to like think of it
as it really happening. And so one of my intentions
with the book is that it causes healing for people
(18:17):
who read it right, like healing for that rather than
feeling enraged right after you read it. It's more of
a healing and inspiration. Is my love letter to black women,
and so I wanted black women to feel like they're
ready to go out and do what they came here
to do. Whatever that was right, like having the inspiration
(18:42):
to do what you came here to do and remember
who we really are.
Speaker 1 (18:54):
You are listening to Black Lit, I'm so curious learn
more about your experiences in Peru and if you still
feel connected to Yameya.
Speaker 2 (19:07):
I feel very connected to her. Actually, one of my
friends just sent me a message. She said she had
a dream that we were sitting at the ocean and
that Yameya was telling her to remind me to continue
to honor her right and love her. And I'm like, oh, absolutely.
(19:33):
But the funny thing is that I've been feeling like
I need to go to an ocean. So my way
of honoring Yameya, how I love to honor Yameya is
to give some molasses to the ocean and just you know,
honor her. Honor how she has watched over our ancestors
they went over and the ones that didn't make it.
(19:54):
I think over a million were you either jumped off
of the slave ships or were thrown off, and so
there were quite a few in the genocide. Right, it
was a genocide, and she watched over their spirits and
so you know, there's just a lot of gratitude that
I do. So that was that message this morning was
(20:14):
a reminder to go to the beach, right, to go
to the ocean and honor her. I do feel very
close to her, and especially writing about her daughter, who
was Oya, so I definitely felt like she was around
and like guiding for me. I know all of the
(20:37):
Orisha have very like mother vibes, but Oya felt like
the homegirl, right, Like Yameya was like mother, don't mother, right,
Like She's like, I'm gonna teach you this lesson and
Oya was like magical, witchy homegirl and was like let
(21:02):
me tell you, let me tell you the story. I
had all of these preconceived notions about what it was
going to be like writing about Oya, because she's known
to be an unbeatable warrior. A lot of people say
she's angry, right, the angry black woman, right, And so
I had all these preconceived notions going in. And when
(21:25):
I dove into her story, she was not angry. She's
just powerful, powerful, that's it. Like I had there was Yes,
maybe she got angry a few times within the book,
but that wasn't who she was, right, And I was like, okay,
this is interesting speaking to it was speaking directly to that, right,
(21:50):
how many people might see black women, right if they
get angry, and then you know, if we're powerful and
get angry, it's threatening, right Yeah, And so yes, Oya
can be thought of as threatening for sure. She's an
unbeatable warrior. You try to go against her, there's no
(22:12):
way to beat her, like, that's who she is. And
so oh, so I love that you asked about Peru
because I just was telling someone about my experience in Peru,
like going into what I learned from it, and so
(22:34):
I did. I practiced ayahuasca while I was in Peru,
and that was to me the most palpable feeling of
being close to Yameya. So as soon as the trip started,
(22:55):
it was like, all of a sudden, all this blue
light came and then it turned into me being underwater
in this beautiful, like clear ocean, and I'm like, right,
I'm swimming. I could breathe underwater. And then I look
and there's this huge yeah me, yeah, huge black mermaid
(23:19):
and I like swim up to her and she just
takes me into her arm like I was her baby,
like literally holding me like this, and all I could
hear her say, so it wasn't like a talking with
a mouth. It was like just like speaking with her mind.
Speaker 1 (23:39):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:39):
And I just kept hearing her say, you can have
whatever you want. You can have whatever you want. There
was no butt and if after it was just you
can have whatever you want. And I felt so held
so taking care of so watched over and meanwhile in
(24:06):
the physical world reality, something totally different was going on.
My body. I like, I like my pants. Oh wow,
my body is like shaking. Apparently the that's.
Speaker 1 (24:23):
The intense part you were mentioning.
Speaker 2 (24:27):
I was talking about the shaman. He would come in
I would hear him go Anita. His name is Javier Anita,
and it was like his face would come into the
water right and he would ask me like, are you okay?
And I'd be like yes, and then he'd go away right.
(24:49):
He told me later on that's how he knew that
I was going to be okay, because I just anytime
he actually asked me, I would say yes, yes, yes.
I'm going to read a little bit from chapter eight
my new book, The Wind on Her Tongue. This book
is about Oya, who is Yemeya's daughter, and she is
(25:14):
the Orisha of the Storm and so many other things
like I talked about before. She is known as the
unbeatable Warrior, and she also stands at the gates of
the graveyard, so if anyone wants to speak to an ancestor,
they go through Oya to speak to their ancestors. And
(25:35):
there's so many other things, but we'll go into this now.
The river harbor reeks of spoiled fish. The slight breeze
flows through us, but not enough to blow away the stench.
The wooden planks beneath our feet creak and grown as
the water splashes through the small gaps between them. It's
(25:58):
a bustling scene as fishermen themselves emptying their nets filled
with catfish, bluegills, and bass. Among the catch are crawfish,
their tiny claws waving as they're released from the nets.
The catfish are the most curious to me, with their
longo teas and smooth skin. Cosette had explained to me
(26:20):
some of the strange and new breeds of fish that
live in the fresh water. The bluegills, with their vibrant
sapphire and green scales, shimmer like jewels as the smaller
ones are released back into the water. We are silent
as the fishermen weave in and out around us, rarely
even acknowledging our presence. Murray has a pouch that seems
(26:41):
to be dripping some sort of liquid from the bottom.
Collette squeezes my hand as we walk up to an
empty spot on the dot. Elisa Murray asked, that's in Criel.
Collette nods. Our white skirts flutter in the wind as
Ellen and Marie stand on either side of Collette. I
(27:04):
gently release her hand and turn away from the ladies,
almost back to back with Colette fulfilling my role as
lookout and guard for the ceremony. Ellen ties a white
rope around me and Colette so I can guide her home.
After the ritual, she has to walk backward without turning around,
in order to reverse the spell. I look toward the
(27:27):
dock and see the men rushing around, barely batting an
eye in our direction. Ellen and Marie begin to chant.
My strict instructions were not to turn around, no matter
what I heard. They too have to look toward the water,
not at me, until the river is out of sight.
As their voices begin to swell, chanting words in an
(27:49):
unfamiliar tongue, the fishermen take heed. I hold their gazes
their judgment until my winds can no longer take it.
The boat begins to rock in the breeze, and the
men grab their hats and secure their vessels. Buckets of
their catch flip over, and the men have to tend
to their duties. They seem to forget about us. Once again.
(28:13):
I hear Marie yell a phrase in Yureba, the language
my mama tried to teach me as a child. I
believe she proclaimed something to the tune of be gone.
She then throws something into the water, perhaps the pouch
she was holding the rope around my waist begins to
pull and I plant my feet on the ground. I
(28:33):
will not turn around. I feel Collette behind me as
she begins to shake uncontrollably. I can barely hold my ground.
I widen my stance to withstand the pressure. I grab
the rope and pull it slightly away from my stomach.
I can feel the beginnings of a rope burn. It
takes all of my willpower not to check Collette. All
(28:55):
the while I keep the fishermen busy with the weather.
I cannot risk them interrupting the sandrmony and perhaps losing
Colette altogether. I think Ellen and Marie hold Colette for
a moment because the pressure subsides, but Colette has begun
moaning and grunting, as if she's giving birth. My hands
shake as my walls of protection slowly erode. Colette screens
(29:17):
in agony, and the gusts of wind pick up speed.
The fishermen grabbed the last of their catch and run
for cover. One yells out to me as he passes,
A hurricane is coming. Get yourself to safety. The wind
on her tongue.
Speaker 1 (29:37):
By Anita colepatch available in the New Year on January
twenty first, twenty twenty five and available now to pre order.
Anita also shares the opening quote from Shallow Waters, which
is in total alignment and speaks to the synergy that
we mentioned earlier. It's a beautiful hint to the luminary
(29:58):
who will be guiding us on the next extended series.
Speaker 2 (30:04):
Look at my face, dark as the night, yet shining
like the sun with love's true light. I am the
black girl who crossed the dark sea, carrying in my
body the seed of the Free.
Speaker 1 (30:23):
Black Lit is a Black Effect original series in partnership
with iHeart Media. Is written and created by myself, Jack
Quiesse Thomas and executive produced alongside Dolly s. Bishop. Chanelle
Collins is the director of production, Head of Talent Nicole Spence,
writer producer Jason Torres, Our researcher and producer is Jabbari Davis,
(30:46):
and the mix and sound design is by the humble
Duane Crawford and special thanks to Anita cooepatch. Gratitude is
an action, so I have to give praise to those
who took the time out to write a review. Please
keep sharing and we will promise to bring more writers
and greater episodes to you. Also, if you're looking to
(31:08):
become a writer or in search of a supportive writing community,
join me for a free creative writing session on my
website Black writers Room dot com, b LK Writer's Room
dot com, or hit me up directly for more details
at Underscore t h A T S P E A
(31:28):
c E.
Speaker 2 (31:30):
That's Peace.
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