April 29, 2025 • 32 mins
Katie Mitchell discusses her newly released book 'Pros to the People,' a powerful tribute to the legacy of Black bookstores in America, exploring their rich history and cultural significance. She shares the personal journey that led her to write the book and reflects on the deep cultural impact these spaces have had as hubs for knowledge, resistance, and community. Katie doesn’t shy away from the hard truths—like the history of FBI surveillance—but also brings light to the beauty of visual storytelling and the enduring spirit of Black literature. It’s a moving dialogue about preservation, purpose, and what the future holds for Black bookstores in a changing world.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
My name is Jacquez Thomas, and you're listening to black Lit,
a podcast about black literature and the stories behind the storytellers.
Welcome to the show. I'm so happy that you could
join us. Katie Mitchell is the author of Prose to
(00:21):
the People. Ideally you want to get it from good Books,
atl dot com or anywhere you can support your local
black bookstore owner. So, Katie, I am really just like
in awe of this book. I want to start with
(00:43):
You're welcome. I want to start with understanding what inspired
you to write it?
Speaker 2 (00:49):
Yeah, I mean it was one of those things where
you assume that a book like this already exists. So
I was just looking for it. I was like, Hey,
I want to know about other black bookstores. You know,
I have a black bookstore. What were the other black
book stores that came before me? And so I set
out looking for it and just really couldn't find it.
And I took two weeks of deep research, which it
(01:10):
shouldn't take two weeks to find a book that exists.
So then I was like, Okay, this book doesn't exist.
What if I wrote it? And so in the intervening time,
I created a proposal and sent it out to publishers,
and ten publishers decided to bid on the book. And
that's what I kind of knew, was like, Okay, this
(01:31):
is something that people are interested in and doesn't exist
and it needs to be in the world.
Speaker 1 (01:39):
Wow. Yeah, I think that's the most important thing. If
you don't see something that you think is important, you
should create it, right. Yeah, So kudos to you for
saying this is what's needed, and I'm going to do
what I can in order to provide it to the culture,
to the people. So I read that somewhere. I heard
(02:00):
that you had no intentions of being an author. No. Yeah,
and people around you kept saying it given your grandmother.
Am I correct?
Speaker 2 (02:11):
Well, I started the bookstore and my family they live
in Jackson, Mississippi, so you know, they're like, oh, yeah,
Katie wrote a book. And I was like, no, I
started a book store. I didn't write a book. Like
what are you talking about. She's like no, I told
everybody at church she wrote a book, and I'm like what.
And So then years later, maybe like three years later,
when I am sitting down to write the book, I
was like, oh, she she been new. She been knew
(02:33):
that I was going to write this. So it's one
of those you know, Grandma's be knowing before you know.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
They be knowing, they know everything. That is so beautiful
that she even like clocked it and said, I already
know that my granddaughter is about to be a best
selling author. I'm speaking that part in two existence, right,
I appreciate you. So was there after you decide, okay,
I want to write this book, this book in nexus.
(03:01):
People around being, including my grandmother, has spoken this into existence.
Were you still resistant or did you finally give in
and listen to the universe and then just go ahead
and dive all the way in?
Speaker 2 (03:13):
I would say it's a mix of the two. So
at the time, I was working at a tech company
and it was taking all of my time, Like I
had the book deal, but I was just working and
had the book in mind, but I really wasn't working
on it like I should have been. And it was
on my birthday I got I was on vacation, got
(03:34):
a call that I was getting laid off, and I thought,
you know when you like call your friends like, oh
my god, I lost my job. I thought everyone was
going to be like, oh my god. Oh no, everyone
was like congratulations, This is great because they knew I
should have been working on the book, and that was
just kind of like, okay, like I'm not going to
worry about trying to get another job. I'm really just
going to lock in and focus on this book. And
(03:57):
that was the biggest blessing. I should have put them
in the for laying me off because it was really
good timing, and I think the book is all the
better for it.
Speaker 1 (04:07):
Amazing. Yeah, that's divine timing for sure. So okay, So
then that happened. Now you're okay, I need to write
this book. All the stars are aligning for this. It's
been predicted all of the things. How do you start
the research and where do you start?
Speaker 2 (04:25):
So I wanted to figure out which bookstores to include
because it isn't comprehensive. Black bookstores have been around in
the United States since the eighteen thirties, which surprises some
people because you know, slavery was still going on in
the eighteen thirties. But the first black bookstore was in
New York. A man named David Ruggles started that bookstore.
So I'm saying, like, okay, we're going from eighteen thirties
(04:47):
to the twenty twenties, how do I pick which stores?
So I started doing my research on the stores that
don't exist anymore and seeing which ones had materials available
in the archives or people so a lie that I
could talk to, kind of just going through that criteria,
like what's a good story that I can craft for
each profile, because you know, a book like this, where
(05:09):
you're profiling the same type of store, you don't want
to keep saying the same thing over and over again.
So which ones have really unique stories? So in the
book you'll find some really interesting things like David Ruggles,
Frederick Douglass was married to his first wife in that bookstore.
There's instances of you know, the FBI coming and firebombing
some bookstores. So just really seeing like what are the
(05:32):
best stories that I can pull and show people the
breath of black bookstores in the United States. So that
was kind of the first piece, like really doing a
deep dive into the archives.
Speaker 1 (05:42):
Okay, yeah, you just touched on two very important things
that I wanted to talk about. I want to start
with community. So you know, I think black bookstores, bookstores
in general, bring community, bring people together, bring like minds together.
Was that also something that you found that was threaded
throughout the history of all of these bookstores.
Speaker 2 (06:02):
Absolutely, absolutely, and the bookstores often go hand in hand
with the different movements that are going on during the time,
Like there was a huge proliferation of black bookstores during
like the Black Arts movement. And a person who was
a big poet during that time was Nicki Giovanni, and
she actually wrote the ford for Prose to the people.
And what I found was when I was talking to
all these bookstores, they always had a story about Niki Giovanni.
(06:26):
You know, she came in, she did this, the community
was so happy to have her, and so I was like,
I need to ask her to write this forward because
everyone has a really great story about Niki Giovanni. And
as you know, she recently passed last December, and it
was just one of those moments like someone I've always
looked up to and I felt like I've always known her,
but then actually reaching out to her. You know, they
(06:47):
say don't meet your heroes, but I was so grateful
to meet her, and she was so gracious saying that
she was excited to be a part of my project.
And you know, she's such a legend, a luminary in
my life, people who love books, and in the stories
of a lot of these bookstores where the community really
came together during these black power movements, black art movements,
(07:09):
the civil rights movement, and now the movement for Black Lives.
So I think it really just tied it all together.
Speaker 1 (07:14):
Yeah, I was going to ask you about that. I
had the pleasure of meeting her right before she passed
as well, really like literally maybe a month or weeks.
It was very short we were I met her, we
talked and all of the things that she would describe
her as there's like just poised and beautiful and eloquent.
(07:35):
And we talked briefly about her coming onto the podcast
because we wanted to highlight her work, and then very
shortly after she passed. And it was so interesting because
I was so emotional that day when I met her,
and I was like, I don't I couldn't explain it.
I was with my friend and I was like, I
feel so emotional, Like what is going on, like Cybor
(07:58):
I thought it was like my cycle or some thing.
I was like, what is happening to me? But that
moment really was so poignant to me. Because I making
this podcast, it also makes you realize just how important
it is to tell these stories right, and to tell
the stories especially when we have these legends that are
still available to us.
Speaker 2 (08:18):
I think that's why you're emotional, right, because when you
meet someone who's an elder like that and you know
all the things that mean and all the knowledge they have,
and it's just like right there in front of you,
You're like, wow, right, it's like, oh my God, like,
let me, let me soak all of this amazing information,
these stories into my my aura.
Speaker 1 (08:39):
Yeah, So that must have been just an absolute honor
to have her, Right, you're forward, what are some other
stories or persons that she came in contact with during
the research while you were creating this book. Was there
any other moments that really stood out to you?
Speaker 2 (08:57):
So so many you seem to be like spiritual. Am
I picking up on on that? Okay, So I'll tell
you the story of the Tree of Life bookstore, which
was a metaphysical bookstore in Harlem. And So I had
some regrets writing this book because I found that some
(09:20):
of the people that I could have talked to had passed,
like right before I started writing the book. So I
was like, dang, Like, if only I had this idea
like a year or two earlier, and that was one
of the people that I was thinking about because he
was in Harlem. The owner was in Harlem, but he
moved down to Atlanta and he spent his last years
in Atlanta. And when I was researching it, he had
(09:41):
posted on LinkedIn that he wanted to talk to somebody
about his life and he wanted someone to write a
biography about him. So he was really open to his
story being out there. And so, you know, I was
feeling bad about that. I was in the library and
I was writing his profile, and you know, I'm writing about,
you know, all the kind of woo woo things that
he believed in and stuff. And so I'm sitting in
(10:02):
the library writing his profile and i just get this
intense ringing in my ears. I'm like, I'm looking around,
like what they got going on in here? And no
one is indicating that they're hearing anything, and it's just,
you know, like I couldn't even stand it. And then
I'm like, Okay, this is this is him excited that
I'm writing about his bookstore, and like I'm telling his story.
(10:25):
And I was like, Okay, I'm just going to go
with it, and so I had done a lot of
research and was kind of hitting a wall and then
I was like, let me just google his name one
more time. So I google him in the bookstore one
more time, and I find that someone has found his
personal archives and they were selling them. So I reach
(10:46):
out to the person. And I don't know if you
know about like archive procurement, but it's expensive. So I
reach out to the person and I say, like, who
bought this? And they tell me who bought it, and
I know the person who bought it, so I reach
out to them and I'm like, hey, I'm writing this book,
like can I see these archives? And so I was
able to get even more information about him, and I
felt like he was like really leading me to it,
(11:07):
because when I tell you, I had looked up so
much about him, and then they're right on the first
page of Google, like updated was his archive about him
and his father and his whole family. So it was
kind of like things like that that were kind of
just leading me down the path to writing the book.
It's like, I cannot say that I just did this
alone and it was all my own genius and talent.
(11:27):
It was really I feel like the people both living
and who have passed that really helped me get this
book out into the world.
Speaker 1 (11:39):
You are listening to black Lit and doing this podcast
we've had, you know, we've talked to different people and
different authors, and when people tell me they have like
either something that is guiding them through this story or
(11:59):
some one who that they have been you know, talking to,
they feel like they're in the room with them. I
you know, I can't. You got to give it up.
Like there's like, there's just too many people that have
these experiences when it comes to writing stories, especially when
(12:20):
you're when you're depicting a story of truth, of someone
else's like biography or of life that was once lived. Yeah,
that's that's pretty beautiful that you had that experience.
Speaker 2 (12:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:32):
Wow. In addition to that, I kind of want to
backtrack a little bit because you mentioned that you started
a bookstore, and that was what you wanted initially, that
was the goal. That was what was like where you're
I don't know, it was that you're north store, Like
to open this bookstore and to bring books and allow
(12:53):
people to have access. Was that the goal? And what
gave you that inspiration? Like what was the root of
that inspiration to say I want to be a bookstore owner.
Speaker 2 (13:06):
Yeah, I grew up reading Nikki Giovanni Langston Hughes. I
tell people that my mom was a type of mom.
It wasn't like you had to do your chores before
you could go out and play. It was like, you
have to recite this Langston Hughes poem before you go
outside and play. So that's how I was. I grew
up right. And so I remember being fresh out of college,
(13:26):
like had my own first apartment, my friends coming to
my apartment, and I had this bookshelf that just had,
you know, like Tony Morrison, my Angelou. What I thought
was just like a very normal bookshelf. And they would
come and they would be in awe of bookshelf. And
I was telling my mom that one day. I was like,
isn't that weird that they are such in awe of
this bookshelf that I think is so normal? And she
was like, you know, not everyone grew up like you, like,
(13:49):
we should start a bookstore. And it was my mom's idea,
you know, she brought it to life just by saying
that just over the breakfast table, like we should start
a bookstore, And it kind of Snowball. From there, it's like, okay, well,
we wanted to be kind of agile and mobile, so
we can go to different parts of the city, even
the suburbs, so people can get access to these books.
(14:11):
And it was just really beautiful how the larger Atlanta
community rally around the bookstore. Because I kind of thought,
I was like, okay, like my friends came to my apartment,
will want to buy a book or two. But it
was Atlanta, and then it was California, New York. It
was people abroad buying books, and I was like, okay,
like we've hit on something, because I think a lot
(14:32):
of people kind of fall out of love with reading
once they get out of school, sometimes even elementary school,
because you know, elementary school is so fun and they're like, yeah,
this is fun, and then it kind of gets to
the drudgery of Okay, you got to read this book
that has nothing to do with you and catch her
on the rise on the syllabus, so this is what
you have to read, and they're not really tailoring it
to you as a black person a lot of the times,
(14:54):
or maybe there's one black book on the syllabus in
six you know, non black books. So I found that
my customers were kind of people like out of college,
hadn't really been keeping up with their reading, but now
that they had something and someone kind of guiding them
and showing them like, oh hey, this is a cool book.
Let me show you about this. This is what resonated
(15:15):
with me. It went from there and.
Speaker 1 (15:18):
You started this was it during COVID. I know you
said it was your mother's idea, but when did it
come to full fruition.
Speaker 2 (15:25):
It was in twenty nineteen, so a little bit before COVID,
and then I think COVID because everyone was inside, a
lot of people picked up reading. COVID gave us a
huge boost. A lot of news outlets picked us up
and what we were doing, so a lot of people
found out about us during COVID.
Speaker 1 (15:45):
Yeah, I noticed that too, And it was kind of
like one of those like underbelly secret blessings that happened
during COVID. It was like people became even spiritual more
so and started reading more because they had time. Essentially, Yeah,
I'm curious, how do you or what are your thoughts
(16:05):
on literacy or is it a part of your mission
in order to get people more excited about reading.
Speaker 2 (16:13):
Yeah, I mean, thankfully, literacy rates are really high in
the United States, and they've you know, increased over the decades,
especially for black people. So I think that's really good.
But there are so many different things now that are
taking up our time. There's a lot of distractions. So
I do think that, you know, creating culturally competent literature
(16:36):
is key and then getting it into the hands of people, right.
And I love that people are like entering the books
based through like young adult books, even if you are
not a young adult but you really like young adult books.
Or I know people who read children's books and they
get a lot out of it. This is a sidebar,
but I've read that, you know, the Jeopardy contestants, they
(16:56):
read a lot of children's books because they give you
a lot of information kind of quickly and it's easily digestible.
And I was reading a children's book about this man
named Arturo Schomberg who had a library in Harlem, and
I was reading about him and a children's book.
Speaker 1 (17:12):
I was like, hold on, I never.
Speaker 2 (17:14):
Read about that, and all the adult books I read
about him, because they're just like getting straight to the point,
like this is what happened this is what happened. So
I think you can get knowledge from so many places,
and you think, like, oh, I have to read this
five hundred page book on the history of all of
the United States. Like, No, you can start where you
are and keep building. And I think that's really cool.
Speaker 1 (17:36):
I love that. I know we touched on this a
little bit. You mentioned that, you know there was an
FBI became a part of surveillance, and we all know this, right, well,
maybe don't we Maybe we don't all know this, But
during this of rights movement, during the times of Malcolm
(17:57):
X and Martin Luther King and Black PANTHERSI really had
a whole department dedicated to the surveillance of black people.
But the way your book shows how the FBI was
really monitoring black bookstores, it just made me. It was
(18:19):
just like, of course they were. Of course they were,
because that's where the information was, that's where the community was.
Was there anything that in your research that stood out
to you from those notes that the FBI had on
the bookstores.
Speaker 2 (18:33):
Yeah, I mean that is a part I feel like,
you know, as black people, we like, no just on
a we know the FBI is watching, but reading the
files was very interesting because one a lot of the
materials that the FBI has on these black bookstores would
not exist anymore if it wasn't for the FBI stealing it.
(18:55):
So they would go and go through the mail, they
would intercept things so and it would be things like, oh,
we're having a cookout this day, y'all come through. So
a paper saying we're having to cook it out in
nineteen sixty probably isn't going to survive till twenty twenty five,
But because the FBI had it in their in their files,
it has so Wow. The FBI is really seen as
(19:17):
kind of like the top archivist of black bookstores because
they were so surveilled, and so as a researcher looking
through these files, it's like, well, dang, it's messed up
that they were surveilling them. But actually this is a
lot of good information. And if you're looking at it
with a critical end, like Okay, they were the opposition,
and you know they're really trying to take them down.
(19:37):
But me looking at it, it's like, Okay, I'm seeing
the community building. I'm seeing that they were raising money
to get black panthers out of jail. I see that
they were doing book clubs so that people could be
more knowledgeable about the world that they were trying to
build in the civil rights movement. So that FI targeted
a lot of bookstores. I believe the first one that
(19:58):
they really started monitoring was now Show Memorial African Bookstore
in Harlem. He started in like the nineteen thirties, and
that was Malcolm X's like home bookstore. So he was
on the FBI's list before a lot of bookstores were
on their list, but the FBI firebombed bookstores. Bonds Bookstores
(20:18):
in Detroit was one that the FBI was monitoring. Drummond
Spear in DC, which is where the headquarters of the
FBI was, was heavily surveilled by the bureau, and Hoover
just had it out for him out for that bookstore
in particular, Hoover being the director of the FBI. So
it's really interesting going through the archives, but I put
(20:38):
it in pros to the people in a way where
you can see some of the files, you can see
what they were saying, and then you can look at
that yourself and contrast what was really going on. What
were these bookstore owners and staff members and customers, what
were they trying to do and like, why was that
so threatening to the FBI? Right to know that they
were so upset about black people reading. You got to think,
(21:01):
what's in these books that they're willing to surveil, firebomb,
kill in some instances, arrest people because they're reading some books?
Like these books must be really powerful.
Speaker 1 (21:13):
Well, one thing I did enjoy, and I'm curious if
there was you know, what's your intention or reasoning for that.
I think you kind of just spoke on it a
little bit. To be able for people to see these visuals,
to see them like I was like, man, these some
of these pictures. I was like, this is so cool,
Like to be able to see the stores as they existed,
(21:35):
when people were going there and being able to like,
you know, pictures and imagery just allows you to really
go a little bit deeper and to get like a
little bit more of your sensories ignited. And I just
love that you chose to add these collages into the book.
Were you seeing them and just feeling like I have
(21:57):
to put these pictures in there? Was it just like
something that completely resonated with you.
Speaker 2 (22:01):
Yeah, I think at the beginning I knew that I
wanted pictures involved, because a lot of the bookstores don't
exist anymore, and I wanted people to see, like you said,
how they looked when they were there. What did it
feel like when you went to these stores? And so
when you're reading the profiles, I make sure to ask
the people who were there, like what did it feel like,
what was going on? What did it smell like? What
(22:21):
did it sound like? It's like, oh, well, the barber
shop was right there, so you always heard people arguing
at the barbershop, and the Fried Chicken place was across
the streets, so it always smelled good over there, and
we played jazz and we'd be having our political discussion.
So really getting all the senses, like you said, and
so the pictures I thought just added more to that.
So you can really put yourself in nineteen sixty eight
(22:42):
DC and say like, Okay, now I know a little
bit more of what it felt like to be at
Drum and Spirit during that time, or any of the
bookstores that are in there.
Speaker 1 (22:50):
With pictures, I'm sure you have other ideas of maybe
your next book, or ideas of where you went, pros
to the people to go. But having those images and
there as I'm a filmmaker and an individual artist as well,
and I was just like, man, this is a movie,
Like this is such a this is such a movie.
(23:11):
Like the first thing that came to my mind was
like Casts and how Averra Duvenet, you know, took that
book even though it wasn't like a narrative storyline, but
made this beautiful story about this woman who was seeking understanding.
And that's literally I couldn't get that out of my
head while I was reading Prose to the People, especially
(23:34):
you know the part about the FBI, because it, like
you said, we know these things and we knew this
was happening, but when it gets down to the root
level of they were even surveilling our bookstores and just
knowing that like there was so much power and understanding
that there was. The fear was so deep that they
(23:58):
needed to like make sure that what we were reading
and who we're communing with in our bookstores and reading
has always been a way of controlling and keeping us
in Black people and slaves quote unquote in their place.
So seeing this in the in your book, I was
just really, I don't know, you should make a movie, girl. No.
Speaker 2 (24:19):
I love that you said that because I don't know
if you notice, but like right when you open it,
on the title page, I put Katie Mitchell Presents because
I seen that in movies. Because I was like, this
feels like a movie to me too, and I wanted
the visuals to kind of speak to you know, this
is like a cinematic story as well.
Speaker 1 (24:38):
It is a cinematic story, and even like maybe even
it's like a story of like time travel and like
being able to go in and out of these spaces
and be in these like these different like you said,
like these political movements were happening and you could see
them at these bookstores. Do you think that bookstores today
(24:59):
have that same gravitas of like representing the community from
a political aspect.
Speaker 2 (25:06):
I think they kind of reflect what's going on in
the world, right. So I think most of the black bookstores,
like even during the time of the Civil rights movement
and the Black power movements, they had their own print
shops because they wanted to be able to put out
their own pamphlets and flyers and books, like they were
publishing works too. And I saw that as I was
doing the research, that has kind of fallen off. So
(25:27):
the ones that were around then, like Marcus Books in Oakland.
They still have a print shop, but newer bookstores they're
not really doing that anymore. So they might be places
where different organizations can meet. Like definitely, during like twenty twenty,
when there's a lot of protests, a lot of the
bookstores opened up their spaces to those organizers. But I
found if there isn't really a movement going on, then
(25:50):
a bookstore won't start the movement. But they're kind of
like the meeting place and they'll grow the movement.
Speaker 1 (25:57):
But they won't start it.
Speaker 2 (25:57):
If that makes sense.
Speaker 1 (25:58):
Yeah, that makes sense. Okay. So there was a lot
of bookstores to cover, and obviously you couldn't get every
bookstore into this book, But is there any that you
wish that you could have?
Speaker 2 (26:11):
There are some that don't exist anymore, and it was
hard to find information about them. So there was one
in San Francisco called the More Bookstore, and I would
find ads about them, but not much else. So bookstores
like that, I was like, oh, I if I write
another book like I would try to find more information
on those. And then there are bookstores that I was
(26:31):
in conversation with but in between times of when I
started writing it and the book coming out, they've closed,
so those bookstores, like you know they would it would
be nice to give them their due as well, maybe
in a second book, a second buck.
Speaker 1 (26:45):
Yeah, yeah, I heard it. A second book is coming well.
I do feel like there is a resurgence of bookstores
and people going into like local bookstores now, which I'm
really really excited about. And I hope that this book
also buyers that you know, and more people to open
up bookstores and to work together. We are not in competition.
(27:07):
We are in a space where we can help and
support and promote black authorship. And I'm just so happy
that you've put this together. And I wish you so
much luck with it. Maybe you can come back after
the New York Times bestseller and you're not returning our emails.
Speaker 2 (27:24):
Like that, How I do y'all like that?
Speaker 1 (27:29):
This was really really amazing. Actually, you know what, before
we go, I do have a question for you. With
everything that's happening in the world right now, the political climate,
who we have in the office as our leader quote unquote.
I noticed that you're a big fan of James Baldwin,
(27:50):
and in nineteen sixty one he said that if you
are in America, you're in a constant state of rage.
Do you feel that rage and what do you do
with it?
Speaker 2 (28:03):
Do I feel the rage? I feel like kind of
being aware of what's going on makes you have that feeling,
right like once you know, you can't know. I feel
like no name the rapper had this tweet like, Mama,
I want to be wope, no more. I was like,
I feel that that was fun when I didn't know
(28:23):
what was going on. But I think I put it
into my writing right like I want other people to
know but also not be bogged down by the knowledge.
So in prose to the people, it's really a celebration
of black bookstores. Like, yes, I'm talking about the FBI
surveilling some of the bookstores, but I'm also talking about
how Tony Morrison came through to Black Books Plus and
(28:47):
they packed out a whole church in Harlem. I'm talking
about how Jesse Jackson was getting on everybody nerves at
a book sighting and all the customers called up to
complain about him. You know, I'm talking about BB King
coming through and the owner's freaking out, and you know,
one of his autograph. So I'm talking about a lot
of things because as black people, we embody all these
(29:09):
things we have. You know, we have the joy, we
have the jazz, we have the sadness, but that's not
all of us, that's not the whole thing. So I
wanted to encapsulate, you know, all all the emotions, and
so I put that into my work and try to
bring people along with me on the journey beautiful.
Speaker 1 (29:28):
It's interesting because we just highlighted Phyllis Wheetly and we
focused on the joy and the letters that she wrote
between her colleagues and her friends, which the book Reading
Pleasures Everyday Black Living in Early America by Tarred Bynham
chooses to interpret. Despite the time, her status and it
was happening around Phyllis weekly, she also found the time
(29:52):
to hold and guard her joy. So I have to
plug that really quick. If you were enjoying this conversation,
please go back and listen to those episodes when you
get a chance. Katie. That is what you were able
to create and prose to the people. Despite the rage,
despite the climate, despite some of the negative aspects that
(30:15):
were happening to bookstores during this time period, there was
room for joy, and there was room for the beauty
and the positive aspects that completely outweighed some of the
other topics and things that happened to bookstores during that time.
(30:36):
There's just always room to celebrate black authors, black bookstores,
and black entrepreneurship and all of the things that we
are doing in this world. So again, congratulations, I would
like to celebrate you in this moment. I cannot wait
for the next book, for the movie, for the series,
for the time travel animation, all of the things. I
(31:01):
would like to speak for everyone and anyone who gets
a chance to get their hands on this book. We
are grateful for your time and for the energy that
you put into creating Pros to the People. Pros to
the People is now available wherever you get your favorite books.
Please support Katie Mitchell and your local bookstore and go
(31:22):
out and get a copy. I guarantee it will be
a conversation piece on your coffee table and hopefully inspire
you to learn about your community and of course, to
read more black Lit. Black Lit is a Black Effects
original series in partnership with iHeart Media. Is written and
(31:42):
created by myself, Jack Queese Thomas and an executive produced
alongside Dolly s Bishop. Chanelle Collins is the director of Production,
Head of Talent Nicole Spence, writer producer Jason Torres, Our
researcher and producer is Jabari Davis, and the mix and
sound design is by the humble Duane Crawford. Gratitude is
(32:05):
an action, so I have to give praise to those
who took the time out to write a review. Please
keep sharing and we will promise to bring more writers
and greater episodes to you. Also, if you're looking to
become a writer or in search of a supportive writing community,
(32:25):
join me for a free creative writing session on my
website Black writers Room dot com, b LK Writer's Room
dot com, or hit me up directly for more details
at Underscore T h A T S P E A
c E. That's Peace.
My name is Jacquez Thomas, and you're listening to black Lit,
a podcast about black literature and the stories behind the storytellers.
Welcome to the show. I'm so happy that you could
join us. Katie Mitchell is the author of Prose to
(00:21):
the People. Ideally you want to get it from good Books,
atl dot com or anywhere you can support your local
black bookstore owner. So, Katie, I am really just like
in awe of this book. I want to start with
(00:43):
You're welcome. I want to start with understanding what inspired
you to write it?
Speaker 2 (00:49):
Yeah, I mean it was one of those things where
you assume that a book like this already exists. So
I was just looking for it. I was like, Hey,
I want to know about other black bookstores. You know,
I have a black bookstore. What were the other black
book stores that came before me? And so I set
out looking for it and just really couldn't find it.
And I took two weeks of deep research, which it
(01:10):
shouldn't take two weeks to find a book that exists.
So then I was like, Okay, this book doesn't exist.
What if I wrote it? And so in the intervening time,
I created a proposal and sent it out to publishers,
and ten publishers decided to bid on the book. And
that's what I kind of knew, was like, Okay, this
(01:31):
is something that people are interested in and doesn't exist
and it needs to be in the world.
Speaker 1 (01:39):
Wow. Yeah, I think that's the most important thing. If
you don't see something that you think is important, you
should create it, right. Yeah, So kudos to you for
saying this is what's needed, and I'm going to do
what I can in order to provide it to the culture,
to the people. So I read that somewhere. I heard
(02:00):
that you had no intentions of being an author. No. Yeah,
and people around you kept saying it given your grandmother.
Am I correct?
Speaker 2 (02:11):
Well, I started the bookstore and my family they live
in Jackson, Mississippi, so you know, they're like, oh, yeah,
Katie wrote a book. And I was like, no, I
started a book store. I didn't write a book. Like
what are you talking about. She's like no, I told
everybody at church she wrote a book, and I'm like what.
And So then years later, maybe like three years later,
when I am sitting down to write the book, I
was like, oh, she she been new. She been knew
(02:33):
that I was going to write this. So it's one
of those you know, Grandma's be knowing before you know.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
They be knowing, they know everything. That is so beautiful
that she even like clocked it and said, I already
know that my granddaughter is about to be a best
selling author. I'm speaking that part in two existence, right,
I appreciate you. So was there after you decide, okay,
I want to write this book, this book in nexus.
(03:01):
People around being, including my grandmother, has spoken this into existence.
Were you still resistant or did you finally give in
and listen to the universe and then just go ahead
and dive all the way in?
Speaker 2 (03:13):
I would say it's a mix of the two. So
at the time, I was working at a tech company
and it was taking all of my time, Like I
had the book deal, but I was just working and
had the book in mind, but I really wasn't working
on it like I should have been. And it was
on my birthday I got I was on vacation, got
(03:34):
a call that I was getting laid off, and I thought,
you know when you like call your friends like, oh
my god, I lost my job. I thought everyone was
going to be like, oh my god. Oh no, everyone
was like congratulations, This is great because they knew I
should have been working on the book, and that was
just kind of like, okay, like I'm not going to
worry about trying to get another job. I'm really just
going to lock in and focus on this book. And
(03:57):
that was the biggest blessing. I should have put them
in the for laying me off because it was really
good timing, and I think the book is all the
better for it.
Speaker 1 (04:07):
Amazing. Yeah, that's divine timing for sure. So okay, So
then that happened. Now you're okay, I need to write
this book. All the stars are aligning for this. It's
been predicted all of the things. How do you start
the research and where do you start?
Speaker 2 (04:25):
So I wanted to figure out which bookstores to include
because it isn't comprehensive. Black bookstores have been around in
the United States since the eighteen thirties, which surprises some
people because you know, slavery was still going on in
the eighteen thirties. But the first black bookstore was in
New York. A man named David Ruggles started that bookstore.
So I'm saying, like, okay, we're going from eighteen thirties
(04:47):
to the twenty twenties, how do I pick which stores?
So I started doing my research on the stores that
don't exist anymore and seeing which ones had materials available
in the archives or people so a lie that I
could talk to, kind of just going through that criteria,
like what's a good story that I can craft for
each profile, because you know, a book like this, where
(05:09):
you're profiling the same type of store, you don't want
to keep saying the same thing over and over again.
So which ones have really unique stories? So in the
book you'll find some really interesting things like David Ruggles,
Frederick Douglass was married to his first wife in that bookstore.
There's instances of you know, the FBI coming and firebombing
some bookstores. So just really seeing like what are the
(05:32):
best stories that I can pull and show people the
breath of black bookstores in the United States. So that
was kind of the first piece, like really doing a
deep dive into the archives.
Speaker 1 (05:42):
Okay, yeah, you just touched on two very important things
that I wanted to talk about. I want to start
with community. So you know, I think black bookstores, bookstores
in general, bring community, bring people together, bring like minds together.
Was that also something that you found that was threaded
throughout the history of all of these bookstores.
Speaker 2 (06:02):
Absolutely, absolutely, and the bookstores often go hand in hand
with the different movements that are going on during the time,
Like there was a huge proliferation of black bookstores during
like the Black Arts movement. And a person who was
a big poet during that time was Nicki Giovanni, and
she actually wrote the ford for Prose to the people.
And what I found was when I was talking to
all these bookstores, they always had a story about Niki Giovanni.
(06:26):
You know, she came in, she did this, the community
was so happy to have her, and so I was like,
I need to ask her to write this forward because
everyone has a really great story about Niki Giovanni. And
as you know, she recently passed last December, and it
was just one of those moments like someone I've always
looked up to and I felt like I've always known her,
but then actually reaching out to her. You know, they
(06:47):
say don't meet your heroes, but I was so grateful
to meet her, and she was so gracious saying that
she was excited to be a part of my project.
And you know, she's such a legend, a luminary in
my life, people who love books, and in the stories
of a lot of these bookstores where the community really
came together during these black power movements, black art movements,
(07:09):
the civil rights movement, and now the movement for Black Lives.
So I think it really just tied it all together.
Speaker 1 (07:14):
Yeah, I was going to ask you about that. I
had the pleasure of meeting her right before she passed
as well, really like literally maybe a month or weeks.
It was very short we were I met her, we
talked and all of the things that she would describe
her as there's like just poised and beautiful and eloquent.
(07:35):
And we talked briefly about her coming onto the podcast
because we wanted to highlight her work, and then very
shortly after she passed. And it was so interesting because
I was so emotional that day when I met her,
and I was like, I don't I couldn't explain it.
I was with my friend and I was like, I
feel so emotional, Like what is going on, like Cybor
(07:58):
I thought it was like my cycle or some thing.
I was like, what is happening to me? But that
moment really was so poignant to me. Because I making
this podcast, it also makes you realize just how important
it is to tell these stories right, and to tell
the stories especially when we have these legends that are
still available to us.
Speaker 2 (08:18):
I think that's why you're emotional, right, because when you
meet someone who's an elder like that and you know
all the things that mean and all the knowledge they have,
and it's just like right there in front of you,
You're like, wow, right, it's like, oh my God, like,
let me, let me soak all of this amazing information,
these stories into my my aura.
Speaker 1 (08:39):
Yeah, So that must have been just an absolute honor
to have her, Right, you're forward, what are some other
stories or persons that she came in contact with during
the research while you were creating this book. Was there
any other moments that really stood out to you?
Speaker 2 (08:57):
So so many you seem to be like spiritual. Am
I picking up on on that? Okay, So I'll tell
you the story of the Tree of Life bookstore, which
was a metaphysical bookstore in Harlem. And So I had
some regrets writing this book because I found that some
(09:20):
of the people that I could have talked to had passed,
like right before I started writing the book. So I
was like, dang, Like, if only I had this idea
like a year or two earlier, and that was one
of the people that I was thinking about because he
was in Harlem. The owner was in Harlem, but he
moved down to Atlanta and he spent his last years
in Atlanta. And when I was researching it, he had
(09:41):
posted on LinkedIn that he wanted to talk to somebody
about his life and he wanted someone to write a
biography about him. So he was really open to his
story being out there. And so, you know, I was
feeling bad about that. I was in the library and
I was writing his profile, and you know, I'm writing about,
you know, all the kind of woo woo things that
he believed in and stuff. And so I'm sitting in
(10:02):
the library writing his profile and i just get this
intense ringing in my ears. I'm like, I'm looking around,
like what they got going on in here? And no
one is indicating that they're hearing anything, and it's just,
you know, like I couldn't even stand it. And then
I'm like, Okay, this is this is him excited that
I'm writing about his bookstore, and like I'm telling his story.
(10:25):
And I was like, Okay, I'm just going to go
with it, and so I had done a lot of
research and was kind of hitting a wall and then
I was like, let me just google his name one
more time. So I google him in the bookstore one
more time, and I find that someone has found his
personal archives and they were selling them. So I reach
(10:46):
out to the person. And I don't know if you
know about like archive procurement, but it's expensive. So I
reach out to the person and I say, like, who
bought this? And they tell me who bought it, and
I know the person who bought it, so I reach
out to them and I'm like, hey, I'm writing this book,
like can I see these archives? And so I was
able to get even more information about him, and I
felt like he was like really leading me to it,
(11:07):
because when I tell you, I had looked up so
much about him, and then they're right on the first
page of Google, like updated was his archive about him
and his father and his whole family. So it was
kind of like things like that that were kind of
just leading me down the path to writing the book.
It's like, I cannot say that I just did this
alone and it was all my own genius and talent.
(11:27):
It was really I feel like the people both living
and who have passed that really helped me get this
book out into the world.
Speaker 1 (11:39):
You are listening to black Lit and doing this podcast
we've had, you know, we've talked to different people and
different authors, and when people tell me they have like
either something that is guiding them through this story or
(11:59):
some one who that they have been you know, talking to,
they feel like they're in the room with them. I
you know, I can't. You got to give it up.
Like there's like, there's just too many people that have
these experiences when it comes to writing stories, especially when
(12:20):
you're when you're depicting a story of truth, of someone
else's like biography or of life that was once lived. Yeah,
that's that's pretty beautiful that you had that experience.
Speaker 2 (12:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:32):
Wow. In addition to that, I kind of want to
backtrack a little bit because you mentioned that you started
a bookstore, and that was what you wanted initially, that
was the goal. That was what was like where you're
I don't know, it was that you're north store, Like
to open this bookstore and to bring books and allow
(12:53):
people to have access. Was that the goal? And what
gave you that inspiration? Like what was the root of
that inspiration to say I want to be a bookstore owner.
Speaker 2 (13:06):
Yeah, I grew up reading Nikki Giovanni Langston Hughes. I
tell people that my mom was a type of mom.
It wasn't like you had to do your chores before
you could go out and play. It was like, you
have to recite this Langston Hughes poem before you go
outside and play. So that's how I was. I grew
up right. And so I remember being fresh out of college,
(13:26):
like had my own first apartment, my friends coming to
my apartment, and I had this bookshelf that just had,
you know, like Tony Morrison, my Angelou. What I thought
was just like a very normal bookshelf. And they would
come and they would be in awe of bookshelf. And
I was telling my mom that one day. I was like,
isn't that weird that they are such in awe of
this bookshelf that I think is so normal? And she
was like, you know, not everyone grew up like you, like,
(13:49):
we should start a bookstore. And it was my mom's idea,
you know, she brought it to life just by saying
that just over the breakfast table, like we should start
a bookstore, And it kind of Snowball. From there, it's like, okay, well,
we wanted to be kind of agile and mobile, so
we can go to different parts of the city, even
the suburbs, so people can get access to these books.
(14:11):
And it was just really beautiful how the larger Atlanta
community rally around the bookstore. Because I kind of thought,
I was like, okay, like my friends came to my apartment,
will want to buy a book or two. But it
was Atlanta, and then it was California, New York. It
was people abroad buying books, and I was like, okay,
like we've hit on something, because I think a lot
(14:32):
of people kind of fall out of love with reading
once they get out of school, sometimes even elementary school,
because you know, elementary school is so fun and they're like, yeah,
this is fun, and then it kind of gets to
the drudgery of Okay, you got to read this book
that has nothing to do with you and catch her
on the rise on the syllabus, so this is what
you have to read, and they're not really tailoring it
to you as a black person a lot of the times,
(14:54):
or maybe there's one black book on the syllabus in
six you know, non black books. So I found that
my customers were kind of people like out of college,
hadn't really been keeping up with their reading, but now
that they had something and someone kind of guiding them
and showing them like, oh hey, this is a cool book.
Let me show you about this. This is what resonated
(15:15):
with me. It went from there and.
Speaker 1 (15:18):
You started this was it during COVID. I know you
said it was your mother's idea, but when did it
come to full fruition.
Speaker 2 (15:25):
It was in twenty nineteen, so a little bit before COVID,
and then I think COVID because everyone was inside, a
lot of people picked up reading. COVID gave us a
huge boost. A lot of news outlets picked us up
and what we were doing, so a lot of people
found out about us during COVID.
Speaker 1 (15:45):
Yeah, I noticed that too, And it was kind of
like one of those like underbelly secret blessings that happened
during COVID. It was like people became even spiritual more
so and started reading more because they had time. Essentially, Yeah,
I'm curious, how do you or what are your thoughts
(16:05):
on literacy or is it a part of your mission
in order to get people more excited about reading.
Speaker 2 (16:13):
Yeah, I mean, thankfully, literacy rates are really high in
the United States, and they've you know, increased over the decades,
especially for black people. So I think that's really good.
But there are so many different things now that are
taking up our time. There's a lot of distractions. So
I do think that, you know, creating culturally competent literature
(16:36):
is key and then getting it into the hands of people, right.
And I love that people are like entering the books
based through like young adult books, even if you are
not a young adult but you really like young adult books.
Or I know people who read children's books and they
get a lot out of it. This is a sidebar,
but I've read that, you know, the Jeopardy contestants, they
(16:56):
read a lot of children's books because they give you
a lot of information kind of quickly and it's easily digestible.
And I was reading a children's book about this man
named Arturo Schomberg who had a library in Harlem, and
I was reading about him and a children's book.
Speaker 1 (17:12):
I was like, hold on, I never.
Speaker 2 (17:14):
Read about that, and all the adult books I read
about him, because they're just like getting straight to the point,
like this is what happened this is what happened. So
I think you can get knowledge from so many places,
and you think, like, oh, I have to read this
five hundred page book on the history of all of
the United States. Like, No, you can start where you
are and keep building. And I think that's really cool.
Speaker 1 (17:36):
I love that. I know we touched on this a
little bit. You mentioned that, you know there was an
FBI became a part of surveillance, and we all know this, right, well,
maybe don't we Maybe we don't all know this, But
during this of rights movement, during the times of Malcolm
(17:57):
X and Martin Luther King and Black PANTHERSI really had
a whole department dedicated to the surveillance of black people.
But the way your book shows how the FBI was
really monitoring black bookstores, it just made me. It was
(18:19):
just like, of course they were. Of course they were,
because that's where the information was, that's where the community was.
Was there anything that in your research that stood out
to you from those notes that the FBI had on
the bookstores.
Speaker 2 (18:33):
Yeah, I mean that is a part I feel like,
you know, as black people, we like, no just on
a we know the FBI is watching, but reading the
files was very interesting because one a lot of the
materials that the FBI has on these black bookstores would
not exist anymore if it wasn't for the FBI stealing it.
(18:55):
So they would go and go through the mail, they
would intercept things so and it would be things like, oh,
we're having a cookout this day, y'all come through. So
a paper saying we're having to cook it out in
nineteen sixty probably isn't going to survive till twenty twenty five,
But because the FBI had it in their in their files,
it has so Wow. The FBI is really seen as
(19:17):
kind of like the top archivist of black bookstores because
they were so surveilled, and so as a researcher looking
through these files, it's like, well, dang, it's messed up
that they were surveilling them. But actually this is a
lot of good information. And if you're looking at it
with a critical end, like Okay, they were the opposition,
and you know they're really trying to take them down.
(19:37):
But me looking at it, it's like, Okay, I'm seeing
the community building. I'm seeing that they were raising money
to get black panthers out of jail. I see that
they were doing book clubs so that people could be
more knowledgeable about the world that they were trying to
build in the civil rights movement. So that FI targeted
a lot of bookstores. I believe the first one that
(19:58):
they really started monitoring was now Show Memorial African Bookstore
in Harlem. He started in like the nineteen thirties, and
that was Malcolm X's like home bookstore. So he was
on the FBI's list before a lot of bookstores were
on their list, but the FBI firebombed bookstores. Bonds Bookstores
(20:18):
in Detroit was one that the FBI was monitoring. Drummond
Spear in DC, which is where the headquarters of the
FBI was, was heavily surveilled by the bureau, and Hoover
just had it out for him out for that bookstore
in particular, Hoover being the director of the FBI. So
it's really interesting going through the archives, but I put
(20:38):
it in pros to the people in a way where
you can see some of the files, you can see
what they were saying, and then you can look at
that yourself and contrast what was really going on. What
were these bookstore owners and staff members and customers, what
were they trying to do and like, why was that
so threatening to the FBI? Right to know that they
were so upset about black people reading. You got to think,
(21:01):
what's in these books that they're willing to surveil, firebomb,
kill in some instances, arrest people because they're reading some books?
Like these books must be really powerful.
Speaker 1 (21:13):
Well, one thing I did enjoy, and I'm curious if
there was you know, what's your intention or reasoning for that.
I think you kind of just spoke on it a
little bit. To be able for people to see these visuals,
to see them like I was like, man, these some
of these pictures. I was like, this is so cool,
Like to be able to see the stores as they existed,
(21:35):
when people were going there and being able to like,
you know, pictures and imagery just allows you to really
go a little bit deeper and to get like a
little bit more of your sensories ignited. And I just
love that you chose to add these collages into the book.
Were you seeing them and just feeling like I have
(21:57):
to put these pictures in there? Was it just like
something that completely resonated with you.
Speaker 2 (22:01):
Yeah, I think at the beginning I knew that I
wanted pictures involved, because a lot of the bookstores don't
exist anymore, and I wanted people to see, like you said,
how they looked when they were there. What did it
feel like when you went to these stores? And so
when you're reading the profiles, I make sure to ask
the people who were there, like what did it feel like,
what was going on? What did it smell like? What
(22:21):
did it sound like? It's like, oh, well, the barber
shop was right there, so you always heard people arguing
at the barbershop, and the Fried Chicken place was across
the streets, so it always smelled good over there, and
we played jazz and we'd be having our political discussion.
So really getting all the senses, like you said, and
so the pictures I thought just added more to that.
So you can really put yourself in nineteen sixty eight
(22:42):
DC and say like, Okay, now I know a little
bit more of what it felt like to be at
Drum and Spirit during that time, or any of the
bookstores that are in there.
Speaker 1 (22:50):
With pictures, I'm sure you have other ideas of maybe
your next book, or ideas of where you went, pros
to the people to go. But having those images and
there as I'm a filmmaker and an individual artist as well,
and I was just like, man, this is a movie,
Like this is such a this is such a movie.
(23:11):
Like the first thing that came to my mind was
like Casts and how Averra Duvenet, you know, took that
book even though it wasn't like a narrative storyline, but
made this beautiful story about this woman who was seeking understanding.
And that's literally I couldn't get that out of my
head while I was reading Prose to the People, especially
(23:34):
you know the part about the FBI, because it, like
you said, we know these things and we knew this
was happening, but when it gets down to the root
level of they were even surveilling our bookstores and just
knowing that like there was so much power and understanding
that there was. The fear was so deep that they
(23:58):
needed to like make sure that what we were reading
and who we're communing with in our bookstores and reading
has always been a way of controlling and keeping us
in Black people and slaves quote unquote in their place.
So seeing this in the in your book, I was
just really, I don't know, you should make a movie, girl. No.
Speaker 2 (24:19):
I love that you said that because I don't know
if you notice, but like right when you open it,
on the title page, I put Katie Mitchell Presents because
I seen that in movies. Because I was like, this
feels like a movie to me too, and I wanted
the visuals to kind of speak to you know, this
is like a cinematic story as well.
Speaker 1 (24:38):
It is a cinematic story, and even like maybe even
it's like a story of like time travel and like
being able to go in and out of these spaces
and be in these like these different like you said,
like these political movements were happening and you could see
them at these bookstores. Do you think that bookstores today
(24:59):
have that same gravitas of like representing the community from
a political aspect.
Speaker 2 (25:06):
I think they kind of reflect what's going on in
the world, right. So I think most of the black bookstores,
like even during the time of the Civil rights movement
and the Black power movements, they had their own print
shops because they wanted to be able to put out
their own pamphlets and flyers and books, like they were
publishing works too. And I saw that as I was
doing the research, that has kind of fallen off. So
(25:27):
the ones that were around then, like Marcus Books in Oakland.
They still have a print shop, but newer bookstores they're
not really doing that anymore. So they might be places
where different organizations can meet. Like definitely, during like twenty twenty,
when there's a lot of protests, a lot of the
bookstores opened up their spaces to those organizers. But I
found if there isn't really a movement going on, then
(25:50):
a bookstore won't start the movement. But they're kind of
like the meeting place and they'll grow the movement.
Speaker 1 (25:57):
But they won't start it.
Speaker 2 (25:57):
If that makes sense.
Speaker 1 (25:58):
Yeah, that makes sense. Okay. So there was a lot
of bookstores to cover, and obviously you couldn't get every
bookstore into this book, But is there any that you
wish that you could have?
Speaker 2 (26:11):
There are some that don't exist anymore, and it was
hard to find information about them. So there was one
in San Francisco called the More Bookstore, and I would
find ads about them, but not much else. So bookstores
like that, I was like, oh, I if I write
another book like I would try to find more information
on those. And then there are bookstores that I was
(26:31):
in conversation with but in between times of when I
started writing it and the book coming out, they've closed,
so those bookstores, like you know they would it would
be nice to give them their due as well, maybe
in a second book, a second buck.
Speaker 1 (26:45):
Yeah, yeah, I heard it. A second book is coming well.
I do feel like there is a resurgence of bookstores
and people going into like local bookstores now, which I'm
really really excited about. And I hope that this book
also buyers that you know, and more people to open
up bookstores and to work together. We are not in competition.
(27:07):
We are in a space where we can help and
support and promote black authorship. And I'm just so happy
that you've put this together. And I wish you so
much luck with it. Maybe you can come back after
the New York Times bestseller and you're not returning our emails.
Speaker 2 (27:24):
Like that, How I do y'all like that?
Speaker 1 (27:29):
This was really really amazing. Actually, you know what, before
we go, I do have a question for you. With
everything that's happening in the world right now, the political climate,
who we have in the office as our leader quote unquote.
I noticed that you're a big fan of James Baldwin,
(27:50):
and in nineteen sixty one he said that if you
are in America, you're in a constant state of rage.
Do you feel that rage and what do you do
with it?
Speaker 2 (28:03):
Do I feel the rage? I feel like kind of
being aware of what's going on makes you have that feeling,
right like once you know, you can't know. I feel
like no name the rapper had this tweet like, Mama,
I want to be wope, no more. I was like,
I feel that that was fun when I didn't know
(28:23):
what was going on. But I think I put it
into my writing right like I want other people to
know but also not be bogged down by the knowledge.
So in prose to the people, it's really a celebration
of black bookstores. Like, yes, I'm talking about the FBI
surveilling some of the bookstores, but I'm also talking about
how Tony Morrison came through to Black Books Plus and
(28:47):
they packed out a whole church in Harlem. I'm talking
about how Jesse Jackson was getting on everybody nerves at
a book sighting and all the customers called up to
complain about him. You know, I'm talking about BB King
coming through and the owner's freaking out, and you know,
one of his autograph. So I'm talking about a lot
of things because as black people, we embody all these
(29:09):
things we have. You know, we have the joy, we
have the jazz, we have the sadness, but that's not
all of us, that's not the whole thing. So I
wanted to encapsulate, you know, all all the emotions, and
so I put that into my work and try to
bring people along with me on the journey beautiful.
Speaker 1 (29:28):
It's interesting because we just highlighted Phyllis Wheetly and we
focused on the joy and the letters that she wrote
between her colleagues and her friends, which the book Reading
Pleasures Everyday Black Living in Early America by Tarred Bynham
chooses to interpret. Despite the time, her status and it
was happening around Phyllis weekly, she also found the time
(29:52):
to hold and guard her joy. So I have to
plug that really quick. If you were enjoying this conversation,
please go back and listen to those episodes when you
get a chance. Katie. That is what you were able
to create and prose to the people. Despite the rage,
despite the climate, despite some of the negative aspects that
(30:15):
were happening to bookstores during this time period, there was
room for joy, and there was room for the beauty
and the positive aspects that completely outweighed some of the
other topics and things that happened to bookstores during that time.
(30:36):
There's just always room to celebrate black authors, black bookstores,
and black entrepreneurship and all of the things that we
are doing in this world. So again, congratulations, I would
like to celebrate you in this moment. I cannot wait
for the next book, for the movie, for the series,
for the time travel animation, all of the things. I
(31:01):
would like to speak for everyone and anyone who gets
a chance to get their hands on this book. We
are grateful for your time and for the energy that
you put into creating Pros to the People. Pros to
the People is now available wherever you get your favorite books.
Please support Katie Mitchell and your local bookstore and go
(31:22):
out and get a copy. I guarantee it will be
a conversation piece on your coffee table and hopefully inspire
you to learn about your community and of course, to
read more black Lit. Black Lit is a Black Effects
original series in partnership with iHeart Media. Is written and
(31:42):
created by myself, Jack Queese Thomas and an executive produced
alongside Dolly s Bishop. Chanelle Collins is the director of Production,
Head of Talent Nicole Spence, writer producer Jason Torres, Our
researcher and producer is Jabari Davis, and the mix and
sound design is by the humble Duane Crawford. Gratitude is
(32:05):
an action, so I have to give praise to those
who took the time out to write a review. Please
keep sharing and we will promise to bring more writers
and greater episodes to you. Also, if you're looking to
become a writer or in search of a supportive writing community,
(32:25):
join me for a free creative writing session on my
website Black writers Room dot com, b LK Writer's Room
dot com, or hit me up directly for more details
at Underscore T h A T S P E A
c E. That's Peace.
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