October 15, 2024 • 32 mins
Who is Octavia Butler? What molded her creativity?
In today's episode we continue to explore the life and legacy of Octavia Butler, an oracle of science fiction, whose visions of the future resonate more deeply today than ever. We examine the backdrop of her upbringing, the environment around her and the lasting impressions on her life that defined her as a writer. Nisi Shawl (Writer / Friend) also joins in to discuss the work, and her relationship with the late Octavia Butler.
Read: Parable of the Sower, The Last Unicorn
Connect: Jacquees Thomas @_ThatsPeace
Learn More: NisiShawl.com
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
My name is Jacqueesse Thomas, and you're listening to Black Lid,
a podcast about black literature and the stories behind the storytellers.
All that you touch, you change. All that you change
(00:23):
changes you. Creativity often springs from a lack thereof a
void that calls out to be filled, or a need
to answer society's hard questions or to explore the complexities
within Some of the questions and answers posed within the
(00:45):
worlds of Octavia's stories don't necessarily offer simple tales of
good versus evil. Instead, they explore both, allowing the narrative
to cultivate the fertile ground of possible and nourish an
opportunity for a new thought bloom or an old one
(01:07):
to die for. What is creativity if not the spark
that ignites the birth of more ideas. Creativity, like change,
is fluid, shaping and reshaping our understanding of the world
around us. Legendary writer and seer Octavia Butler is no
(01:28):
stranger to our interdependence as people, our ability to inspire
one another. Despite living a fairly solitary life, Octavia understood
that none of us are islands navigating the world on
our own. We are ships built by many, anchored by
our core community, shaped by everything we see and everything
(01:54):
we create. Or maybe we're tapestries compilations of fabrics, threads, prints,
and textures, the product of many hands and ideas coming together.
No matter the metaphor, each of us is a reflection
of the people and places that we make ourselves at
(02:16):
home within. Accolades and job titles are only half stories.
But the best way to understand the patches of the quote,
the layers of a person and their work, is to
examine these reflections from the beginning. You are now listening
(02:38):
to black Lids as we embark on a journey through
the life and legacy of Octavia Butler, an oracle of
science fiction whose visions of the future resonate more deeply
today than ever before, a journey marked by observation, introspection,
(03:04):
in the gradual unfurling of a writer's destiny to challenge
the very fabric of reality through her words. If everything
we experience becomes the fruit of our art, then our
childhood's relationships and observations are woven into whatever we create, purposefully, intentionally,
(03:29):
or subconsciously. For Octavia Butler, this was especially true. She
was a slow, deliberate writer, one whose grand ideas often
arrived long before she had the maturity to fully capture them.
Her stories waited patiently for her to grow into them,
(03:53):
to become the writer capable of nourishing the seeds of
her ideas.
Speaker 2 (04:01):
I made up stories to kind of keep myself company.
Speaker 1 (04:04):
I guess my writing is at least partly something grown
out of alienation. To further understand how these seas were planted,
we must take a journey to Pasadena, California. The year
is nineteen forty seven, just two days after the start
of summer. The sun is shining and long shadows stretch
(04:27):
across the entire city. Over one hundred thousand souls live here,
but only seven thousand of them are black. In a
very small fraction are securing jobs and post offices, or
quote unquote professional spaces where dignity hides behind desk and
steady paychecks. Though the chains of slavery had been broken
(04:49):
several generations before, the air in Pasadena is still heavy
with the remnants of those days, especially in homes where
black women labor silent, invisible yet indispensable. It was a
time when the lines between freedom and servitude were blurred,
(05:11):
where the promise of equality felt like a cruel mirage
on the horizon, and the general hierarchy within society would
maintain the feelings of quasi freedom. For a black woman,
living in Pasadena meant navigating a world of contradictions, where
(05:31):
opportunities and limitations coexisted, and where resilience and resourcefulness were
essential for survival. I am talking of the past, but
it is still resonant in our present day. Pasadena's warm,
sunlit streets, lined with palm trees and framed by the
(05:53):
majestic Zan Gabrielle Mountains might have seemed like a picturesque
paradise to outsiders, but for the black residence it was
a segregated environment. Housing discrimination was rampant. Real estate covenants
restricted black families to certain neighborhoods, clustering them in areas
(06:14):
neglected by the city, with poor infrastructure and fewer resources.
It was against this backdrop that Octavia Estelle Butler was born.
Her name carries the weight of generations her mother, Octavia
Margaret Guy and her grandmother Estella, who made the brave
(06:38):
journey west during a Great Migration of the nineteen twenties.
Leaving behind the oppressive fields of Louisiana. There she had
to work in the fields, her hands raw from scraping dishes,
hacking sugar cane, boiling laundry, and stirring pots for others,
(06:59):
all while raised seven children against all odds, and amid
strict racial segregation, she made time to teach Octavia Margaret
how to read. Estella's determination was a testament to the
unyielding spirit that ran through Butler's lineage. A grandmother born
(07:21):
into a world of bondage, determined to give her children
the freedom that transcended physical chains, a freedom rooted in knowledge,
a kind that would one day be taken to unimaginable
heights by her granddaughter. On one hand, the city was
located in a state considered more progressive than many others
(07:45):
at the time, which presented a complicated picture for the
small black community that lived in Pasadena. Although less visible
than in the South, the lines of segregation remained sharp,
confining Black women like Butler's mother to domestic work in
white households. These roles were an extension of the work
(08:07):
their mothers and grandmothers endured in the South. Long days
of scrubbing floors cooking mills and raising children that were
not their own for wages that barely kept food on
a table. But it was during these pivotal moments that
Butler became an observer, and not just of what people
(08:29):
said or did, but also how it spoke to their values.
Like most, Octavia's first opportunity to be a spectator was
with her parents. She often accompanied her mother on these jobs,
entering through back doors and observing the quiet endurance required
(08:49):
to survive such labor. When she was just seven or eight,
Octavia told her mother, I'll never do what you do.
Speaker 2 (08:59):
What you do is.
Speaker 1 (09:01):
Her mother stood silent, the weight of the reality etched
on her face, a look that Octavia would never forget,
a moment that stuck with Butler, and that shaped the
way she saw people surviving inhumane circumstances later in life.
In an interview with Hoshanda Saunders, Butler says people like
(09:24):
her mother were not people who were just too pathetic
to protect themselves, but were heroes because they were using
what they had to help their kids get a little further.
This experience gave birth to a perspective that inspired her
novel Kindred, which she would write approximately twelve years later.
(09:48):
This was an important moment that shaped a story, but
it was actually a moment before that that started molding
her relationship with literature. One day, her mother handed her
a book book and said, now you read. At this
very young age, Octavia embarked on a path her mother
couldn't have foreseen. By placing that book into her hands,
(10:11):
her mother unknowingly set her on a path to creating
her own stories. Octavia was shy, quiet, and very tall.
At a very young age, she towered over her classmates
and found the outside world isolating. She never really fit in,
(10:31):
although relatives found that she was respectful. She had dyslexia.
Her teachers labeled her as slow because she didn't fit
readily into their expectations. But instead of fading away, she
found solace in her imagination. She scribbled stories into a
big pink notebook, carving out her own universe where she
(10:55):
can be anything a magic horse, a martian, a telepath,
and the pages of her own mind. She traveled. The
Pasadena Public Library became her sanctuary where she discovers science
fiction and her imagination ignited by the distant worlds of
(11:17):
Dune and pilgrimage. As the nineteen sixties begins to dawn.
The streets of Pasadena echo with murmurs of change. The
civil rights movement, although not as loud as it is
in other parts of the country, it starts to seep
(11:37):
into the community. Black women like Butler's mother and neighbors
push for better housing, education, and the chance to live freely,
but Octavia remains immersed in her stories, happily lost in
the world that she's just beginning to build. At ten,
she sits in her kitchen, hair neatly penned, listening to
(12:02):
her mother's voice over the hiss of hot irons. Everyone
has something that they can do better than anything else.
It's up to them to find out what that is.
These words planted seeds in Octavia's mind, nurturing the idea
that she too, can find her power. At thirteen, in
(12:30):
her aunt's kitchen, she declares her ambition to become a writer.
Her aunt, the first in a family to attend college
and now a nurse, responds with a mix of pride
and practicality. That's nice, dear, but you'll still have to
get a job too. Octavia respectfully pushes back, refusing to
(12:51):
let her dreams be reduced to a mere hobby. But
writing will be my job. The back and forth between
them is as old as time, a dance between dreamer
and realists. Her aunt's voice echoes generations who've learned to
survive by bending dreams to fit reality. Honey, negroes can't
be writers, Well why not, Octavia asks, They just can't. Yes,
(13:18):
they can too, she declares, as her voice rises above doubt,
leaning into the resiliency of her ancestors. The reality of
black life in the seventies directly speaks to the reality
of black life now roots. The current number one best
selling novel is the television event of the year. But
black is unquestionably beautiful, and America began.
Speaker 2 (13:41):
To realize it.
Speaker 1 (13:43):
By the nineteen seventies. Octavia's home city begins to shift.
The civil rights movement and new anti discrimination laws created
cracks and once immovable barriers, and new opportunities emerged. However
or narrow, black women were able to find work in offices, schools,
(14:05):
and hospitals, But the battle is far from over. Octavia's
coming of age, and this changing landscape still doesn't fit
the mode of these new professions. She writes obsessively, even
as She works mind numbing jobs and factories and warehouses,
places where they didn't expect her to smile or pretend
(14:25):
like she was having a good time. She'd wake up
at two or three in the morning to write before
shifts and started collecting every rejection, slip imaginable, with every
rejection hinting that she didn't belong, which would make even
the most positively obsessed writer doubtful. She questions, who was
(14:48):
I anyway? Why would anyone pay any attention to what
I have to say? I was writing science fiction and fantasy,
for God's sakes, But she could not quit. Positive obsession
is dangerous, she later reflects. It's about not being able
to stop at all, and so she kept going, her
(15:11):
pen becoming her compass.
Speaker 2 (15:13):
I was a clarion and I sold two short stories
while there two editors who were.
Speaker 1 (15:18):
There, and five years later she publishes her first novel,
The Pattern Master. When I was twelve, I saw a
terrible movie called Devil Girl from Mars, and I.
Speaker 2 (15:30):
Turned off the television and said to myself, I can
write a better story than that.
Speaker 1 (15:35):
As Pasadena continues to grow and change, as well as
the country around her, Octavia's stories reached further than she
could have ever imagined. Her words, born from the resilience
of the women before her and the fire of her
own creative spirit, carve a place in a genre that
long excluded voices like hers. From her grandmother's hands, pulling
(15:59):
roots from Louisiana soil to her mother's whispered bedtime stories,
Octavia transforms pain and survival into something greater, proof that
even in the hardest circumstances, the act of creating can
be the most powerful form of resistance and the truest
(16:20):
form of freedom. She found a way to bend the
world to her imagination, creating spaces for voices like hers, black, marginalized, misunderstood,
to rise above the noise beyond her childhood. Who can
(16:46):
say they truly knew Octavia the woman? Not Many like
her plotlines and characters. Octavia Butler is quite the enigma,
despite helping to reveal so much in us. Yes, her
work so singular and widely acclaimed, and yet she is
known truly by few. Like Air, Butler is omnipresent and
(17:13):
yet unseen in many ways. Some would think that this
is intentional. Unlike other authors, Butler really pursued press for
her projects and never traveled on book tours, not to
mention some of that is the fault of her publishing company.
Speaker 2 (17:29):
I remember trying to convince my publishers of this early on,
and having no success until I went with a smaller publisher.
Speaker 1 (17:38):
Nevertheless, it wasn't until her last decade of life that
Butler truly sat down with journalists, friends and colleagues for
all the record conversations about her life and legacy within
the science fiction genre. Was Octavia Butler allowing the work
to speak for itself. Perhaps other no black creatives have
(18:01):
opted for an almost obsessive need to control their narrative
and what is said about their art. Or maybe this
was her introverted nature that shied away from media and buzz,
choosing instead bookstores and her garden. But it's worth asking
why someone so celebrated and well known is also such
(18:26):
a mystery. I had the pleasure of speaking with Nissi Shaw,
and here's what she had to say about Octavia.
Speaker 2 (18:34):
She was very much an introvert, and yet the words
there are two words that come to mind when I
think of her. Gracious and generous. She was generous with
her time, a recluse, a hermit, an introvert who understood
(18:57):
that people needed to see her and interact with her,
and out of the goodness of her heart, made herself available.
She understood that people found her amazing, but she didn't
like decide that that made them less amazing.
Speaker 1 (19:17):
Were her writing's prophecy. There's no taking away from her
ability to envision what could be possible. Octavia's writing process
was a testament to her deep introspection and keen observation.
Speaker 2 (19:31):
By being in touch with what is going on, you
can be in touch with what is coming. So the
Parable Books in particular, she talked with me about them
as the outgrowth of listening to NPR. So she was
(19:53):
listening to news stories about like Reagan's campaign, honestly and
sort of extrapolating into what would what it would be
like in forty years, what news stories would be coming
down at that point, and very good extrapolations because they
(20:16):
were very she was very keen and observant of what
was happening at the time. It wasn't that she was
saying it is inevitable that we will have this sort
of thing happening. It was seems pretty likely that if
(20:39):
we go down this road, we'll find another situation at
the end of it. Yeah, she wasn't predicting exactly, but
she was paying attention. Parable of the sower and parable
of the talents. Now that is a prophecy. I hope.
Speaker 1 (21:03):
Her writings challenge us to think, to feel, and to change,
embodying her words that God is changed, compelling us to
look inward and outward, to confront our histories and to
reimagine our futures. And her narratives, hope is a reoccurring theme.
(21:27):
Hope is never naive, but is resilient, enduring, considerate.
Speaker 2 (21:35):
So I'm going to refer to Samuel Delaney, who was,
by the way, one of Octavia's instructors when she went
to the Clarion workshop. Theme is not something that authors
put in their work. Theme is something that readers get
(21:56):
out of the work. She may have had her concern,
you know, that she was thinking about, and that made
their way into the manuscript. But she was an atheist,
but she respected other people's beliefs and thought that those
beliefs gave them power. As in the in Parable of
(22:20):
the Sewer, people are talking about going to another planet,
and she compared this project to the project of building cathedrals,
the sort of belief that could keep generations working at
the same project. She was not religious herself, but I had,
(22:49):
for instance, I had a feast for my ancestors, and
I invited her, and she came, and she brought gifts,
and she brought flowers, and she participated in the chants
and the songs because that was the respectful thing to do,
(23:11):
not because you know, this was her personal belief. So
she was an atheist within herself, but she understood the
community power that religion can give.
Speaker 1 (23:30):
Butler's legacy is not confined to her literary contributions. Her
life's work continues to inspire new generations, challenging us to
think critically about the direction of our society.
Speaker 2 (23:45):
When Octavia died, there were so many people who were
moved by that. Who were people who had only met
her for half an hour were in tears. She just
had that kind of effect on people. I belonged to
the Carl Brandon Society, which is a nonprofit that's dedicated
(24:10):
to increasing the representation and supporting their representation of people
of color in science fiction, fantasy, and horror and related genres.
So I believe there were five different people who approached
me individually, and there were probably others involved in the
(24:31):
Carl Brandon Society who were approached. All these people were saying,
we need to start a scholarship in Octavia's name so
that others can come to Clarion West or Clarion or
you know, some sort of writing experience that will give
them what she had. She did attend Clarion when it
(24:56):
was in Clarion, Pennsylvania, and she taught several times at
Clarion West and at Clarion which is now located in
San Diego. So there was this sort of ground swell
of people saying, we've got to do this. Oh, and
it costs thousands of dollars to attend Clarion or Clarion West,
(25:17):
so you have the airfare, you have food, you have
the tuition. So you know, it's no small thing to
be able to say I've got a scholarship to cover
all that. My role in it at this point is minuscule.
What has happened is every year we've had one or
(25:41):
two scholarship recipients, and those recipients now are responsible for
choosing who gets the next award.
Speaker 1 (25:53):
Do you understood that writing was not just an act
of creation, but a dialogue, a co creation with those
would dwell within her worlds. Long after the words were penned.
I asked Nicie Shaw about the magic of creating, and
she also talks a little bit about how magical Octavia
(26:14):
Butler was as well.
Speaker 2 (26:16):
That ability to make something from nothing, to conjure stories
and worlds and people and situations out of well, your mind,
your experience. I don't think that there are people who
will say you can just you know, write anything and
(26:38):
people will understand it and believe it. I don't think so.
I think you have to follow certain guides that you
find within yourself and within other people's minds. And I
think that's true for magic also, that you don't just
you know, like decide, well, I'm going to make it
(27:01):
so that you know, rain is blue or something like that.
You just you have to pay attention to what's going on,
and then you can kind of bend and persuade the
reality into this other reality. This feeling common in both
(27:23):
writing and in I will say other forms of magic
that you are the impetus. Maybe you are, like what's
you know, initiating this, but you are not the whole thing.
Because it is a co creation with your audience. It
is a co creation with the other people who are
(27:44):
part of the writing reading equation, and also of the
the spell or whatever, the magic, the enchantment. They're part
of it too.
Speaker 1 (27:58):
One of the most beautiful moments is when I asked
Nisi Shaw how she will remember Octavia Butler. Please take
a moment to truly listen to this answer. It is
an answer that will open your heart, your mind, and
your purpose as you continue, as I continue on in
(28:20):
this journey. This is such a beautiful way for a
friend to remember the life of someone who had such
an impact on all of us. To hear directly from
someone who knew her what impact she left, so intimately,
so honestly, because this could possibly change how you want
(28:42):
to be remembered, the actions that you take in life
in order to have such reverence in memory.
Speaker 2 (28:49):
One of my favorite authors fantasy author named Peter Beegel,
in his book The Last Unicorn, which is everybody needs
to read that book. But the Last un is enchanted
and turned into a human female in appearance and her
magic over time lessons as she's captive in this female form,
(29:13):
the change that comes over her magic. Beagle notes as
first she was magical in a way that made everyone
else magical. Then her magic dwindled, and she became magical
in a way that was only her. That you know,
it made everything else more mundane. And Octavia was always
(29:37):
magical in the first way, in a way that made
everyone else magical too.
Speaker 1 (29:47):
It's important to understand the beginnings what happens when a
writer is born. The coupling of words that were never
conjured together are formed. Perspectives are alived to change others.
Dreams that were once unseen but played out in our
imaginations appear on the silver screens. Ideas and heartfelt expressions
(30:11):
of life all fall onto the page, and in between
those hardcovers, we're able to escape into the lives of
personalities not unlike our own, but personify our ideals, our fears,
our strengths, and our weaknesses, letters that come together to
(30:33):
tell us about our ancestors, our magic, our realities, and
also our mistakes, to teach us to guide us. When
a writer is born, not only is history made, but
history is saved. Every writer has a journey understanding the landscape,
(30:55):
the impressions that surrounded their world. Gives us a little
insight into war but molded their creativity and the person.
As we continue over the next couple of episodes, we'll
explore Octavia's impact on the world, and we'll go deeper
into the pages of her work. Perhaps everything we need
(31:16):
to know is already written. Black Lit is a Black
Effect original series in partnership with iHeart Media. I Jacquise
Thomas and the creator and executive producer, alongside Dolly s Bishop.
(31:36):
Chanelle Collins is the director of production. It is written
by myself and Bria Baker. Our researcher and producer is
Jabari Davis, and the mix and sound design is by
the Humble Duyne Crawford Special thanks to Hoshonda Sounders, Chila Lyming,
Edward Champion, Christians Wicker, Bruce Duncan, and of course Nissa.
(32:01):
Join me on the next episode as we continue the
conversation on Octavia Butler's life and work. Also, if you're
looking to become a writer or in search of a
supportive writing community, join me for a free creative writing
session on my website black writers Room dot com, b
LK Writer's Room dot com, or hit me up directly
(32:24):
for more details at Underscore t h A T S
P E A c E. That's piece
My name is Jacqueesse Thomas, and you're listening to Black Lid,
a podcast about black literature and the stories behind the storytellers.
All that you touch, you change. All that you change
(00:23):
changes you. Creativity often springs from a lack thereof a
void that calls out to be filled, or a need
to answer society's hard questions or to explore the complexities
within Some of the questions and answers posed within the
(00:45):
worlds of Octavia's stories don't necessarily offer simple tales of
good versus evil. Instead, they explore both, allowing the narrative
to cultivate the fertile ground of possible and nourish an
opportunity for a new thought bloom or an old one
(01:07):
to die for. What is creativity if not the spark
that ignites the birth of more ideas. Creativity, like change,
is fluid, shaping and reshaping our understanding of the world
around us. Legendary writer and seer Octavia Butler is no
(01:28):
stranger to our interdependence as people, our ability to inspire
one another. Despite living a fairly solitary life, Octavia understood
that none of us are islands navigating the world on
our own. We are ships built by many, anchored by
our core community, shaped by everything we see and everything
(01:54):
we create. Or maybe we're tapestries compilations of fabrics, threads, prints,
and textures, the product of many hands and ideas coming together.
No matter the metaphor, each of us is a reflection
of the people and places that we make ourselves at
(02:16):
home within. Accolades and job titles are only half stories.
But the best way to understand the patches of the quote,
the layers of a person and their work, is to
examine these reflections from the beginning. You are now listening
(02:38):
to black Lids as we embark on a journey through
the life and legacy of Octavia Butler, an oracle of
science fiction whose visions of the future resonate more deeply
today than ever before, a journey marked by observation, introspection,
(03:04):
in the gradual unfurling of a writer's destiny to challenge
the very fabric of reality through her words. If everything
we experience becomes the fruit of our art, then our
childhood's relationships and observations are woven into whatever we create, purposefully, intentionally,
(03:29):
or subconsciously. For Octavia Butler, this was especially true. She
was a slow, deliberate writer, one whose grand ideas often
arrived long before she had the maturity to fully capture them.
Her stories waited patiently for her to grow into them,
(03:53):
to become the writer capable of nourishing the seeds of
her ideas.
Speaker 2 (04:01):
I made up stories to kind of keep myself company.
Speaker 1 (04:04):
I guess my writing is at least partly something grown
out of alienation. To further understand how these seas were planted,
we must take a journey to Pasadena, California. The year
is nineteen forty seven, just two days after the start
of summer. The sun is shining and long shadows stretch
(04:27):
across the entire city. Over one hundred thousand souls live here,
but only seven thousand of them are black. In a
very small fraction are securing jobs and post offices, or
quote unquote professional spaces where dignity hides behind desk and
steady paychecks. Though the chains of slavery had been broken
(04:49):
several generations before, the air in Pasadena is still heavy
with the remnants of those days, especially in homes where
black women labor silent, invisible yet indispensable. It was a
time when the lines between freedom and servitude were blurred,
(05:11):
where the promise of equality felt like a cruel mirage
on the horizon, and the general hierarchy within society would
maintain the feelings of quasi freedom. For a black woman,
living in Pasadena meant navigating a world of contradictions, where
(05:31):
opportunities and limitations coexisted, and where resilience and resourcefulness were
essential for survival. I am talking of the past, but
it is still resonant in our present day. Pasadena's warm,
sunlit streets, lined with palm trees and framed by the
(05:53):
majestic Zan Gabrielle Mountains might have seemed like a picturesque
paradise to outsiders, but for the black residence it was
a segregated environment. Housing discrimination was rampant. Real estate covenants
restricted black families to certain neighborhoods, clustering them in areas
(06:14):
neglected by the city, with poor infrastructure and fewer resources.
It was against this backdrop that Octavia Estelle Butler was born.
Her name carries the weight of generations her mother, Octavia
Margaret Guy and her grandmother Estella, who made the brave
(06:38):
journey west during a Great Migration of the nineteen twenties.
Leaving behind the oppressive fields of Louisiana. There she had
to work in the fields, her hands raw from scraping dishes,
hacking sugar cane, boiling laundry, and stirring pots for others,
(06:59):
all while raised seven children against all odds, and amid
strict racial segregation, she made time to teach Octavia Margaret
how to read. Estella's determination was a testament to the
unyielding spirit that ran through Butler's lineage. A grandmother born
(07:21):
into a world of bondage, determined to give her children
the freedom that transcended physical chains, a freedom rooted in knowledge,
a kind that would one day be taken to unimaginable
heights by her granddaughter. On one hand, the city was
located in a state considered more progressive than many others
(07:45):
at the time, which presented a complicated picture for the
small black community that lived in Pasadena. Although less visible
than in the South, the lines of segregation remained sharp,
confining Black women like Butler's mother to domestic work in
white households. These roles were an extension of the work
(08:07):
their mothers and grandmothers endured in the South. Long days
of scrubbing floors cooking mills and raising children that were
not their own for wages that barely kept food on
a table. But it was during these pivotal moments that
Butler became an observer, and not just of what people
(08:29):
said or did, but also how it spoke to their values.
Like most, Octavia's first opportunity to be a spectator was
with her parents. She often accompanied her mother on these jobs,
entering through back doors and observing the quiet endurance required
(08:49):
to survive such labor. When she was just seven or eight,
Octavia told her mother, I'll never do what you do.
Speaker 2 (08:59):
What you do is.
Speaker 1 (09:01):
Her mother stood silent, the weight of the reality etched
on her face, a look that Octavia would never forget,
a moment that stuck with Butler, and that shaped the
way she saw people surviving inhumane circumstances later in life.
In an interview with Hoshanda Saunders, Butler says people like
(09:24):
her mother were not people who were just too pathetic
to protect themselves, but were heroes because they were using
what they had to help their kids get a little further.
This experience gave birth to a perspective that inspired her
novel Kindred, which she would write approximately twelve years later.
(09:48):
This was an important moment that shaped a story, but
it was actually a moment before that that started molding
her relationship with literature. One day, her mother handed her
a book book and said, now you read. At this
very young age, Octavia embarked on a path her mother
couldn't have foreseen. By placing that book into her hands,
(10:11):
her mother unknowingly set her on a path to creating
her own stories. Octavia was shy, quiet, and very tall.
At a very young age, she towered over her classmates
and found the outside world isolating. She never really fit in,
(10:31):
although relatives found that she was respectful. She had dyslexia.
Her teachers labeled her as slow because she didn't fit
readily into their expectations. But instead of fading away, she
found solace in her imagination. She scribbled stories into a
big pink notebook, carving out her own universe where she
(10:55):
can be anything a magic horse, a martian, a telepath,
and the pages of her own mind. She traveled. The
Pasadena Public Library became her sanctuary where she discovers science
fiction and her imagination ignited by the distant worlds of
(11:17):
Dune and pilgrimage. As the nineteen sixties begins to dawn.
The streets of Pasadena echo with murmurs of change. The
civil rights movement, although not as loud as it is
in other parts of the country, it starts to seep
(11:37):
into the community. Black women like Butler's mother and neighbors
push for better housing, education, and the chance to live freely,
but Octavia remains immersed in her stories, happily lost in
the world that she's just beginning to build. At ten,
she sits in her kitchen, hair neatly penned, listening to
(12:02):
her mother's voice over the hiss of hot irons. Everyone
has something that they can do better than anything else.
It's up to them to find out what that is.
These words planted seeds in Octavia's mind, nurturing the idea
that she too, can find her power. At thirteen, in
(12:30):
her aunt's kitchen, she declares her ambition to become a writer.
Her aunt, the first in a family to attend college
and now a nurse, responds with a mix of pride
and practicality. That's nice, dear, but you'll still have to
get a job too. Octavia respectfully pushes back, refusing to
(12:51):
let her dreams be reduced to a mere hobby. But
writing will be my job. The back and forth between
them is as old as time, a dance between dreamer
and realists. Her aunt's voice echoes generations who've learned to
survive by bending dreams to fit reality. Honey, negroes can't
be writers, Well why not, Octavia asks, They just can't. Yes,
(13:18):
they can too, she declares, as her voice rises above doubt,
leaning into the resiliency of her ancestors. The reality of
black life in the seventies directly speaks to the reality
of black life now roots. The current number one best
selling novel is the television event of the year. But
black is unquestionably beautiful, and America began.
Speaker 2 (13:41):
To realize it.
Speaker 1 (13:43):
By the nineteen seventies. Octavia's home city begins to shift.
The civil rights movement and new anti discrimination laws created
cracks and once immovable barriers, and new opportunities emerged. However
or narrow, black women were able to find work in offices, schools,
(14:05):
and hospitals, But the battle is far from over. Octavia's
coming of age, and this changing landscape still doesn't fit
the mode of these new professions. She writes obsessively, even
as She works mind numbing jobs and factories and warehouses,
places where they didn't expect her to smile or pretend
(14:25):
like she was having a good time. She'd wake up
at two or three in the morning to write before
shifts and started collecting every rejection, slip imaginable, with every
rejection hinting that she didn't belong, which would make even
the most positively obsessed writer doubtful. She questions, who was
(14:48):
I anyway? Why would anyone pay any attention to what
I have to say? I was writing science fiction and fantasy,
for God's sakes, But she could not quit. Positive obsession
is dangerous, she later reflects. It's about not being able
to stop at all, and so she kept going, her
(15:11):
pen becoming her compass.
Speaker 2 (15:13):
I was a clarion and I sold two short stories
while there two editors who were.
Speaker 1 (15:18):
There, and five years later she publishes her first novel,
The Pattern Master. When I was twelve, I saw a
terrible movie called Devil Girl from Mars, and I.
Speaker 2 (15:30):
Turned off the television and said to myself, I can
write a better story than that.
Speaker 1 (15:35):
As Pasadena continues to grow and change, as well as
the country around her, Octavia's stories reached further than she
could have ever imagined. Her words, born from the resilience
of the women before her and the fire of her
own creative spirit, carve a place in a genre that
long excluded voices like hers. From her grandmother's hands, pulling
(15:59):
roots from Louisiana soil to her mother's whispered bedtime stories,
Octavia transforms pain and survival into something greater, proof that
even in the hardest circumstances, the act of creating can
be the most powerful form of resistance and the truest
(16:20):
form of freedom. She found a way to bend the
world to her imagination, creating spaces for voices like hers, black, marginalized, misunderstood,
to rise above the noise beyond her childhood. Who can
(16:46):
say they truly knew Octavia the woman? Not Many like
her plotlines and characters. Octavia Butler is quite the enigma,
despite helping to reveal so much in us. Yes, her
work so singular and widely acclaimed, and yet she is
known truly by few. Like Air, Butler is omnipresent and
(17:13):
yet unseen in many ways. Some would think that this
is intentional. Unlike other authors, Butler really pursued press for
her projects and never traveled on book tours, not to
mention some of that is the fault of her publishing company.
Speaker 2 (17:29):
I remember trying to convince my publishers of this early on,
and having no success until I went with a smaller publisher.
Speaker 1 (17:38):
Nevertheless, it wasn't until her last decade of life that
Butler truly sat down with journalists, friends and colleagues for
all the record conversations about her life and legacy within
the science fiction genre. Was Octavia Butler allowing the work
to speak for itself. Perhaps other no black creatives have
(18:01):
opted for an almost obsessive need to control their narrative
and what is said about their art. Or maybe this
was her introverted nature that shied away from media and buzz,
choosing instead bookstores and her garden. But it's worth asking
why someone so celebrated and well known is also such
(18:26):
a mystery. I had the pleasure of speaking with Nissi Shaw,
and here's what she had to say about Octavia.
Speaker 2 (18:34):
She was very much an introvert, and yet the words
there are two words that come to mind when I
think of her. Gracious and generous. She was generous with
her time, a recluse, a hermit, an introvert who understood
(18:57):
that people needed to see her and interact with her,
and out of the goodness of her heart, made herself available.
She understood that people found her amazing, but she didn't
like decide that that made them less amazing.
Speaker 1 (19:17):
Were her writing's prophecy. There's no taking away from her
ability to envision what could be possible. Octavia's writing process
was a testament to her deep introspection and keen observation.
Speaker 2 (19:31):
By being in touch with what is going on, you
can be in touch with what is coming. So the
Parable Books in particular, she talked with me about them
as the outgrowth of listening to NPR. So she was
(19:53):
listening to news stories about like Reagan's campaign, honestly and
sort of extrapolating into what would what it would be
like in forty years, what news stories would be coming
down at that point, and very good extrapolations because they
(20:16):
were very she was very keen and observant of what
was happening at the time. It wasn't that she was
saying it is inevitable that we will have this sort
of thing happening. It was seems pretty likely that if
(20:39):
we go down this road, we'll find another situation at
the end of it. Yeah, she wasn't predicting exactly, but
she was paying attention. Parable of the sower and parable
of the talents. Now that is a prophecy. I hope.
Speaker 1 (21:03):
Her writings challenge us to think, to feel, and to change,
embodying her words that God is changed, compelling us to
look inward and outward, to confront our histories and to
reimagine our futures. And her narratives, hope is a reoccurring theme.
(21:27):
Hope is never naive, but is resilient, enduring, considerate.
Speaker 2 (21:35):
So I'm going to refer to Samuel Delaney, who was,
by the way, one of Octavia's instructors when she went
to the Clarion workshop. Theme is not something that authors
put in their work. Theme is something that readers get
(21:56):
out of the work. She may have had her concern,
you know, that she was thinking about, and that made
their way into the manuscript. But she was an atheist,
but she respected other people's beliefs and thought that those
beliefs gave them power. As in the in Parable of
(22:20):
the Sewer, people are talking about going to another planet,
and she compared this project to the project of building cathedrals,
the sort of belief that could keep generations working at
the same project. She was not religious herself, but I had,
(22:49):
for instance, I had a feast for my ancestors, and
I invited her, and she came, and she brought gifts,
and she brought flowers, and she participated in the chants
and the songs because that was the respectful thing to do,
(23:11):
not because you know, this was her personal belief. So
she was an atheist within herself, but she understood the
community power that religion can give.
Speaker 1 (23:30):
Butler's legacy is not confined to her literary contributions. Her
life's work continues to inspire new generations, challenging us to
think critically about the direction of our society.
Speaker 2 (23:45):
When Octavia died, there were so many people who were
moved by that. Who were people who had only met
her for half an hour were in tears. She just
had that kind of effect on people. I belonged to
the Carl Brandon Society, which is a nonprofit that's dedicated
(24:10):
to increasing the representation and supporting their representation of people
of color in science fiction, fantasy, and horror and related genres.
So I believe there were five different people who approached
me individually, and there were probably others involved in the
(24:31):
Carl Brandon Society who were approached. All these people were saying,
we need to start a scholarship in Octavia's name so
that others can come to Clarion West or Clarion or
you know, some sort of writing experience that will give
them what she had. She did attend Clarion when it
(24:56):
was in Clarion, Pennsylvania, and she taught several times at
Clarion West and at Clarion which is now located in
San Diego. So there was this sort of ground swell
of people saying, we've got to do this. Oh, and
it costs thousands of dollars to attend Clarion or Clarion West,
(25:17):
so you have the airfare, you have food, you have
the tuition. So you know, it's no small thing to
be able to say I've got a scholarship to cover
all that. My role in it at this point is minuscule.
What has happened is every year we've had one or
(25:41):
two scholarship recipients, and those recipients now are responsible for
choosing who gets the next award.
Speaker 1 (25:53):
Do you understood that writing was not just an act
of creation, but a dialogue, a co creation with those
would dwell within her worlds. Long after the words were penned.
I asked Nicie Shaw about the magic of creating, and
she also talks a little bit about how magical Octavia
(26:14):
Butler was as well.
Speaker 2 (26:16):
That ability to make something from nothing, to conjure stories
and worlds and people and situations out of well, your mind,
your experience. I don't think that there are people who
will say you can just you know, write anything and
(26:38):
people will understand it and believe it. I don't think so.
I think you have to follow certain guides that you
find within yourself and within other people's minds. And I
think that's true for magic also, that you don't just
you know, like decide, well, I'm going to make it
(27:01):
so that you know, rain is blue or something like that.
You just you have to pay attention to what's going on,
and then you can kind of bend and persuade the
reality into this other reality. This feeling common in both
(27:23):
writing and in I will say other forms of magic
that you are the impetus. Maybe you are, like what's
you know, initiating this, but you are not the whole thing.
Because it is a co creation with your audience. It
is a co creation with the other people who are
(27:44):
part of the writing reading equation, and also of the
the spell or whatever, the magic, the enchantment. They're part
of it too.
Speaker 1 (27:58):
One of the most beautiful moments is when I asked
Nisi Shaw how she will remember Octavia Butler. Please take
a moment to truly listen to this answer. It is
an answer that will open your heart, your mind, and
your purpose as you continue, as I continue on in
(28:20):
this journey. This is such a beautiful way for a
friend to remember the life of someone who had such
an impact on all of us. To hear directly from
someone who knew her what impact she left, so intimately,
so honestly, because this could possibly change how you want
(28:42):
to be remembered, the actions that you take in life
in order to have such reverence in memory.
Speaker 2 (28:49):
One of my favorite authors fantasy author named Peter Beegel,
in his book The Last Unicorn, which is everybody needs
to read that book. But the Last un is enchanted
and turned into a human female in appearance and her
magic over time lessons as she's captive in this female form,
(29:13):
the change that comes over her magic. Beagle notes as
first she was magical in a way that made everyone
else magical. Then her magic dwindled, and she became magical
in a way that was only her. That you know,
it made everything else more mundane. And Octavia was always
(29:37):
magical in the first way, in a way that made
everyone else magical too.
Speaker 1 (29:47):
It's important to understand the beginnings what happens when a
writer is born. The coupling of words that were never
conjured together are formed. Perspectives are alived to change others.
Dreams that were once unseen but played out in our
imaginations appear on the silver screens. Ideas and heartfelt expressions
(30:11):
of life all fall onto the page, and in between
those hardcovers, we're able to escape into the lives of
personalities not unlike our own, but personify our ideals, our fears,
our strengths, and our weaknesses, letters that come together to
(30:33):
tell us about our ancestors, our magic, our realities, and
also our mistakes, to teach us to guide us. When
a writer is born, not only is history made, but
history is saved. Every writer has a journey understanding the landscape,
(30:55):
the impressions that surrounded their world. Gives us a little
insight into war but molded their creativity and the person.
As we continue over the next couple of episodes, we'll
explore Octavia's impact on the world, and we'll go deeper
into the pages of her work. Perhaps everything we need
(31:16):
to know is already written. Black Lit is a Black
Effect original series in partnership with iHeart Media. I Jacquise
Thomas and the creator and executive producer, alongside Dolly s Bishop.
(31:36):
Chanelle Collins is the director of production. It is written
by myself and Bria Baker. Our researcher and producer is
Jabari Davis, and the mix and sound design is by
the Humble Duyne Crawford Special thanks to Hoshonda Sounders, Chila Lyming,
Edward Champion, Christians Wicker, Bruce Duncan, and of course Nissa.
(32:01):
Join me on the next episode as we continue the
conversation on Octavia Butler's life and work. Also, if you're
looking to become a writer or in search of a
supportive writing community, join me for a free creative writing
session on my website black writers Room dot com, b
LK Writer's Room dot com, or hit me up directly
(32:24):
for more details at Underscore t h A T S
P E A c E. That's piece
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