November 13, 2025 • 29 mins
Asian stocks fell after uncertainty over Federal Reserve interest-rate cuts and stretched valuations in technology shares dragged Wall Street lower. Gauges in Japan, South Korea and Australia all opened weaker, even as an index of the region was poised for its third gain in four weeks. We then take you to the Citi China Conference in Shanghai, where Citi CEO Jane Fraser spoke to Bloomberg's Stephen Engle. They discussed Citi's growing presence in China, the current state of the US economy, and her views on how to deploy AI in the financial sector.
In the states, investors are bracing for a flurry of economic data now that the government shut-down is over. Stocks fell, led by a decline in tech stocks was met by concern that the Federal Reserve's plans for a December rate cut maybe in doubt. For a closer look, we spoke to Mike Green, Chief Strategist and Portfolio Manager for Simplify Asset Management.
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio News.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Welcome to the Bloomberg day Break Asia podcast. I'm Doug Christner.
The City China Conference is underway in Shanghai, and in
a moment we'll go there for a conversation with City
CEO Jane Fraser. Now this will happen against a backdrop
of equity market weakness today across the Asia Pacific following
a selloff in the States. Today's FED speak was hawkish,
(00:31):
and valuations do remain a major concern, especially in big
cap tech. We got some perspective from the APEC with
Billy Leung. He is investment strategist at Global X.
Speaker 3 (00:42):
If you look at the AI names or even the
tech names, it's actually quite solid compared to, for example,
twenty twenty five years ago. And I think a really
really good sort of view is that if you look
at twenty es ago, looking at the NAZAC, you know
over seventy percent of those companies at that time was
probably a negative free cash they were probably unprofitable, their
had net debts. But if you look at right now
(01:04):
in terms of the NAZAC companies, that's sort of opposite.
Right now we've flipped it over US. Seventy percent of
the tech companies in the US right now are actually
profitable and having positive free cash flow, So we are
in a much more solid fundamentals and quality. So I
always see that as more of a justification of why
I guess valuations are much higher right now.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
That was Billy Leung investment strategistic global X. We also
learned today the China's economic activity cooled more than expected
in October. There was a slump in investment and slower
growth in industrial output. Now, retail sales did top estimates
with annual growth of two point nine percent. However, month
on month, retail sales slowed for a fifth straight month.
(01:44):
Let's go next to the City China conference. Here is
Bloomberg Steven Engel for a conversation with City CEO Jane Fraser.
Speaker 4 (01:51):
So what do you hope to get out of this?
Speaker 5 (01:53):
And we're talking to all your guests and your clients
and to understand a little bit more about the China market,
which you know very well.
Speaker 4 (02:00):
But we're coming out of a bruising trade war.
Speaker 5 (02:03):
We're not even out of it yet right Some say
it's a truce, not necessarily a lasting piece.
Speaker 4 (02:08):
What has been your takeaway so far.
Speaker 6 (02:11):
I think what's interesting this time at this conference is
that it's moved away from a China for China story
and instead we have had huge interests and a large
number of investors and companies coming to China to understand
what is happening here as well as the Chinese companies
and investors that are looking much more externally now. So
(02:35):
that really feels like a sea change here. That's pretty exciting.
Speaker 5 (02:38):
How do you serve your clients against the backdrop of
two governments that are trying to de risk, if not decouple.
Speaker 6 (02:45):
No, I think the recent truth has brought some much
needed and welcome stability here.
Speaker 1 (02:54):
I think we're in a position.
Speaker 6 (02:56):
Now for both sides that wanted to have a period
now where we can just we can move ahead and
have a more stable relationship between both of them. It's transactional,
but it's in both both sides interests. We see offline
base navigating this well.
Speaker 5 (03:16):
Yeah, what's your vision for the China as the China
market as it folds into your overall restructuring plan as well?
You're now chair and CEO, first time that those two
rules have been joined in a couple of decades. Clear
mandate to carry out your vision going forward.
Speaker 4 (03:34):
What does that look like.
Speaker 5 (03:35):
When you did exit your consumer banking business here like
you did in mini markets around the world, you also
sold your retail wealth management portfolio to HSBC. You got
out of an investment bank JV with Orient Securities, I believe,
and you have an outstanding license application for your wholly
owned JV Insecurities.
Speaker 6 (03:56):
So City has been in China for one hundred and
twenty four years. We have a landmark building here in Shanghai.
And what we have done is focus our strategy and grow.
We are following our international clients around the world. We're
seeing them with renewed interest and focus in China as
(04:18):
we talked about, and then we're seeing the Chinese companies
innovating at pace on that and also looking at expanding internationally.
Speaker 1 (04:28):
So we've been.
Speaker 6 (04:28):
Growing rapidly here with a more focused strategy, and it
is the power of clarity and renewed purpose in the firm.
Speaker 5 (04:38):
Now, before this interview started, you really countered what I
said is you're pulling back a little bit from China.
Speaker 4 (04:43):
That's not at all.
Speaker 5 (04:44):
You're adding headcount. How what are your headcount numbers? When
we get headlines that your IT department maybe thirty five
hundred jobs are going to be moving elsewhere, and this
and that you pulled back from retail three or four
years ago.
Speaker 1 (04:56):
Yeah, I think you're getting the story wrong.
Speaker 4 (04:59):
Good good, That's why I receive it.
Speaker 6 (05:01):
City is on the city is on the front foot.
We are innovating, we are growing, We're helping support our clients.
Our clients are both building resiliency and they are reinventing
themselves with all the technological changes. That is no different
in China than it is in other parts of the world.
So note this is a firm with clarity of purpose,
(05:26):
with clarity of direction.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
We know where we're.
Speaker 6 (05:28):
Headed and we're really delivering strong progress. So I'm excited
by the upside that we have. I'm excited about the
progress we're making, and I see it here on the
ground in China. If we think we move away from
some of the just headwinds that we all know about
on consumer spending and on the property market, you look
(05:49):
behind that here in China. It's a manufacturing powerhouse. What
are we seeing. Fifty percent of all robotic companies in
the world are here in China. China is writing the
next chapter of its economy around advanced manufacturing, around innovation,
as well as all Chinese companies expanding internationally.
Speaker 1 (06:12):
And we're both serving.
Speaker 6 (06:15):
Seventy percent of a fortune five hundred that are here
in China as well as serving the Chinese companies locally
tap into global marketing.
Speaker 4 (06:24):
So how does that equate to what the deal flow?
You see this?
Speaker 5 (06:27):
Who's the head of Global Banking who we talked to
a couple of hours ago, extremely bullish on the amount
of deal flows going into twenty twenty six. What kind
of cross bordered with China do you see?
Speaker 6 (06:37):
Look, I think we're seeing new corridors opening up, and
the scale of ambitions not just in China but in
Asia are higher than we see really in many.
Speaker 1 (06:47):
Other parts of the world.
Speaker 6 (06:48):
So in these new corridors, we're seeing the Middle East
connecting with Asia. For the GCC, you know, they were
expecting Asia to be its largest trading partner by next year.
That's an entirely new set of flows. In the last
five years, Brazil's connection into Asia and into China again
very robust their major partners.
Speaker 1 (07:11):
So you know, the world is changing.
Speaker 6 (07:13):
Rapidly, it's adding new corridors, it's adding new flows. It's
adding new wealth and scale is the.
Speaker 1 (07:21):
Name of the game.
Speaker 4 (07:22):
What will be your strategy with wealth management?
Speaker 5 (07:24):
You got out as I said, the retail portion of
your wealth management was sold to HSBC, But you're going
to be on shore here, but you're going to do
a lot of it from Hong Kong and Singapore right now.
Speaker 6 (07:35):
So City is focused internationally, not on not on retail banking.
We are focused on serving clients who have cross border needs.
That is a very vibrant but segment of clients. Think
of individuals that are driving the mid market companies are
growing internationally. We think of the world's billionaires and wealthy
(08:00):
that need access to global markets, and then we obviously
think of investors and corporations we're doing so there's a
lot of.
Speaker 1 (08:08):
Engine of growth. It's going to be.
Speaker 6 (08:11):
Fifty percent of all of the new high network households
created in the next three years will be created here
in Asia. So our focus is on what is the
wealth proposition for those as well as supporting the companies
and the engines of growth behind them.
Speaker 5 (08:27):
So what kind of hiring is going to be needed
in this part of the world, Not necessarily China, but
the rest of Asia at a time when we're also
seeing Corporate America as they invest heavily into AI, they've
had to pull back on hiring and jobs have been cut.
Speaker 1 (08:41):
It's a great question.
Speaker 6 (08:43):
I think AI is certainly changing a lot of what
we're expecting we're going to need in the world going forward.
So from City's point of view, for example, we see
this as an opportunity to really train our talent.
Speaker 1 (08:56):
How do we empower our talent to.
Speaker 6 (08:58):
Use the AI tool so they can be smarter in
front of clients. They can spend more time serving clients
and coming up with solutions as opposed to the more
chure elements of being a banker. We don't know how
quickly it's going to change, Steve, So there'll be certainly
a lot of shift in coding jobs.
Speaker 1 (09:21):
We've seen that already. Our productivity is up.
Speaker 6 (09:24):
Nine percent year over year for our coding teams. But
there's going to be new jobs created too. None of
us quite know yet exactly how the timing will play out,
and we know there's a lot of change ahead of that,
but our approaches, we're going to invest in our talent.
Our firm is growing and that should be able to
(09:44):
support the.
Speaker 1 (09:45):
Needs going forward.
Speaker 4 (09:46):
You mentioned the Middle East.
Speaker 5 (09:47):
I think you just came back from Riard your cultair
of the US Saudi Business Council. I believe this also
vary bullet on India. Magnificent opportunity there.
Speaker 1 (09:58):
He's highest.
Speaker 5 (10:00):
Might be a little bit biased, maybe, but again, what
do you hope to get from those markets as it
fits into your restructurement and the vision that you just talked.
Speaker 1 (10:10):
About the growth plans that we have going forward.
Speaker 6 (10:14):
Because we are on the front foot, I cannot stress
that enough.
Speaker 1 (10:19):
You can see it in our results.
Speaker 6 (10:20):
So all of our businesses we're taking share, We're growing
very quickly, and our returns are improving. So as we're
looking forward its growth. Let's take India. City is larger
in India today.
Speaker 1 (10:35):
We are the.
Speaker 6 (10:36):
Largest foreign firm by revenues in India. When I look
at Korea, we are were It was just that that's
another market where we were the first foreign bank to
open the doors in Korea, and we have a very
strong position there supporting multinationals and clients.
Speaker 1 (10:55):
So as I look around the world, it's becoming.
Speaker 6 (10:59):
More focused on versification. There is also a focus on reinvention.
What we are doing is helping provide the strategic advice.
We're helping provide the financing and structuring and arranging that.
And we're also helping manage the supply chain reconfiguration.
Speaker 1 (11:16):
We're helping with the hedging and foreign exchange interest rates.
Speaker 6 (11:20):
Because volatility is a feature, it's not a bug of
this system.
Speaker 5 (11:23):
Through your restructuring, you had to get rid of the
retail side, and there's are there other areas that you
would like to divest.
Speaker 1 (11:30):
I know you have the wrong story.
Speaker 6 (11:33):
City is about growing. We're very clear foot forward, very
clear on.
Speaker 1 (11:37):
Our strategy and we're moving onwards.
Speaker 5 (11:39):
I only ask because again, the Russia situation is a
little bit different, probably than your overall strategy.
Speaker 4 (11:45):
We just got a word that Vladimir Putin.
Speaker 5 (11:48):
Approved the sale to Renaissance Capital of your bank in Russia,
probably something that you've been wanting to do for a
while but was held back.
Speaker 6 (11:55):
We have been winding down many many companies have been
the franchise in Russia. We were waiting for the final
approval to be able to sell. We've got a couple
more to go to Renaissance, but it's a tiny it's
a tiny business, so it's in the Grand scheme of
where city is, where we're investing, on what we're doing.
(12:17):
It would be good to get that done, but it's
not critical to the firm strategy going forward.
Speaker 5 (12:24):
Let's talk about the outlook in the United States right
now as we head into twenty twenty six.
Speaker 4 (12:29):
We saw the market reaction overnight.
Speaker 5 (12:30):
Simply we're seeing that the FEDS equation the bets for
possible easing coming up and now fifty to fifty hoor
is till below that because of the aspector of inflation.
Speaker 4 (12:40):
What is your outlook.
Speaker 5 (12:41):
For FED action going into the new year and the
specter of inflation rising.
Speaker 6 (12:47):
Look, I don't think we're out of the woods yet,
and there's a sensor that maybe another shoe to drop.
Speaker 1 (12:52):
It could be in tariffs or in the labor market, it.
Speaker 6 (12:55):
Could be in the asset prices that are quite high
in the States. But all of that said, we're quite
optimistic about twenty six. The challenge for the freed right
now is with the government shutdown. You know, we all
have a death of up to date data which we
could do with it's hard to make these calls of
exactly what's going on.
Speaker 1 (13:15):
Whilst we're waiting for the information.
Speaker 6 (13:18):
But as we look further out into next year, I
think the resiliency of the corporate balance sheets, the strength
companies leaning in.
Speaker 1 (13:27):
To innovation, investing in AI.
Speaker 6 (13:30):
You know, there is some I think the doomsdays will
be proven wrong.
Speaker 5 (13:35):
We're a couple months out now from when we had
concerns rise about I think there was one tricolor of
the auto subprime model lender. There were failures. There was
concerns about non performing loans. What does your balance sheet
look like as far as that and where is your
worries live?
Speaker 6 (13:54):
You know, our balance sheet is pristine, But I think
part of that is because it's very heavily our investment
grade on the corporate side, we're over eighty percent investment
grade globally, and when we look at the consumer side,
it's about eighty six percent prime. So you tend to
(14:14):
you know, we tend to see the most resilient, healthiest
parts of the economy on the balance sheet. All of
that said, we haven't seen a thing that is concerning us.
The consumer in the States is being fiscally responsible. Companies
have been building up some more cash, either for a
rainy day if it proves necessary, but most of them
(14:36):
for investment, and you know they're acting from a position
of strength. We'll keep an eye on the labor market,
We'll keep an eye on some of the areas of
mid tier players in private credit and the like. But
as far as we're concerned that second third.
Speaker 1 (14:54):
Order effects.
Speaker 6 (14:57):
The banks, the Bank's not seeing anything that we're worried about.
Speaker 5 (15:00):
Are you concerned by what some say maybe bubble forming
an AI. We talked about the advantages of AI, but
how much of a bubble are overheating?
Speaker 6 (15:09):
I'm not sure if we're just in with a lot
of our tech clients and the West Coast, I don't
think anyone was ready to say that it's a full
on a high bubble. But no one is saying that
there aren't some real pockets of let's call it the
British understatement frothiness.
Speaker 1 (15:25):
In the market. It's more around the edges.
Speaker 6 (15:30):
What I found interesting is we can see a lot
of the demand for the infrastructure build that's going in
AI and the energy for the next couple of years.
You know where you saw some opinions diverge was in
the three to five year period, probably be in danger
of overbuilding, But no one's feeling that for the big
(15:50):
investments that are going on at the moment for the
next couple of years. So I think on that one,
certainly some pockets of frothiness there on the valuations, but
the core infrastructure investments are important, and as we're seeing
in our own bank and I think many companies, we'll
(16:11):
start getting some of the productivity benefits coming through. But
the scale, the scale and the pace of investment is unprecedented,
that is for sure.
Speaker 2 (16:21):
That was Jane Fraser, CEO of City, speaking with Bloomberg.
Stephen Engel coming up a chat with Michael Green, chief
strategist and portfolio manager at Simplify Asset Management, here on
the Daybreak Asia podcast. Welcome back to the Daybreak Asia Podcast.
(16:44):
I'm Doug Chrisner. US equities sold off on Thursday after
some hawkish FED speak and a lot more in the
way of worry over valuations, especially among AI related tech.
For a closer look, I'm joined by Michael Green. He
is chief strategist and portfolio manager for Simple Asset Management. Michael,
thank you for being here. It's kind of curious because,
(17:05):
at least to me, didn't seem as though we had
a strong catalyst for today's retreat in stocks.
Speaker 7 (17:11):
I don't have a really strong sense. I mean, the
biggest thing that I think we've seen is just a
general uncertainty and unease with the narrative that AI was
going to turn out to be everything. You know, there's
some evidence that that has broken a little bit. At
least we've broken the back of that move. At the
same time, I'm not yet seeing evidence that we have
(17:34):
got any form of meaningful retail redemptions or reductions in
terms of flow. The most interesting story I heard today
is that firms like Schwab started to place some limitations
around margin and the ability to access margin on a
daily basis, and so that that may have played a role.
Speaker 2 (17:56):
So would you agree with the statement that the pullback
that we saw today is especially in tech, makes next
week's earnings from Nvidio more important than ever.
Speaker 7 (18:07):
I think that's right, although I will be very frank
with you that I think ultimately in Video's earnings, while
they may engender and immediate response, are going to play
a less important role in this than whether Americans continue
to have jobs and the economy doesn't slow significantly. I'm
(18:28):
much more about the flows of investment and the largest
flows continue to be simply coming from retail with contributions
into passive vehicles.
Speaker 2 (18:37):
So what about the rotation that we have seen away
from tech and into defensive names like healthcare and consumer staples.
And we know that valuations are a major concern. Are
you seeing an acceleration in repositioning right now? Is that
really what the dynamic is all about?
Speaker 7 (18:55):
I think much less so. So that's part of what
I was highlighting in terms of it being a broad day.
Right So we're down thirty five basis points strong balance
sheets were down sixty six basis points. Value even if
I just isolate for the long component of it was
down about eighty three basis points. There really was no
segment of the market that was untouched. We clearly saw
(19:17):
a break in areas like unprofitable technology and relatively recent momentum,
which have been leading the market for the past several months.
Those clearly we saw sold. It's less clear that we
saw significant buying in the defensive areas.
Speaker 2 (19:34):
To what extent was hawkish FED speak at culprit because
if you look at what some of the major FED players,
and I'm thinking of Kashkari in Minneapolis, maybe to a
lesser extent, Musalom from Saint Louis. They are still very
much concerned about the impact of higher inflation. And I
don't know whether or not you feel the same way
(19:54):
as they may feel, but clearly the market right now
is pricing less than a fifty percent chance of a
RAID cut in December. To what extent is the FED
a component here and what we're talking about.
Speaker 7 (20:07):
I think that's actually a far more critical component. The
pressure that we're seeing on the fixed income space with
retreating from the expectations and nearly one hundred percent expectations
that the FED would cut in December are not all
that different than what we saw at the tail end
of last year. And this is something that I've actually
written about in advance. I've highlighted it repeatedly. We have
(20:28):
a problem with our seasonal inflation adjustments. The COVID dynamics
and the Russian invasion of Ukraine through traditional seasonality and
CPI off that's actually causing many of the indicators, and
I'm sure the FED is tracking these privately as well.
It's caused many of the indicators of inflation to actually
(20:50):
become atypical seasonally. When you attempt to seasonally adjust them,
it shows Q four and Q one inflation as higher.
My hunch is that this is just wrong right, that
ultimately what we're seeing is a slowing in the housing market,
that the pressure from tariffs is now translating to lower
aggregate demand, and that in turn means that inflation is
(21:14):
likely to be quite low next year. As we come
into you know, April, May June, we'll see the same
narrative shift. Oh my gosh, inflation's nowhere near as bad
as we thought it was, and the FED will again return.
But this was exactly the risk that the FED was
going to become overly conservative and slow in response to
(21:35):
atypical seasonality and pricing.
Speaker 2 (21:37):
Information on the goods inflation side, away from food and
energy for a moment, can we assume that the story
in China, the deflation story in China, means that China
will continue to export deflation.
Speaker 7 (21:53):
I think that's a good assumption. I think the key
issue that we need to remember with China is that
China is increasingly automating much of its production. That means
that their productivity continues to move a pace in the
production of goods. Because China's population is now shrinking, their
aggregate demand, It's very difficult to grow that domestically, so
(22:16):
you simultaneously have expanding domestic production and flat to down
domestic aggregate demand, which we see very clearly in China's
import data. As a result, China is forced to export
deflation and goods and to a lesser extent, technological services
around the globe in the hopes of finding somebody else
(22:38):
to buy what they want. That's particularly acute in an
environment in which the Americans are saying, you know no Moss.
Speaker 2 (22:44):
Michael, talk to me about some of the strategies that
you're putting in place to protect against downside in the
equity market.
Speaker 7 (22:53):
Well, fortunately, I have less direct involvement in the equity
markets than I do in the fixed income markets and
the fixed in income markets. There's two sources of protection.
One is rates themselves. Right now, that's working against you
because the concerns that the FED is going to back
away from cutting rates cutting yields. But ultimately that is
(23:14):
a source of protection. Those indogenous cash flows will continue
to flow in the form of coupons, etc. Two, investors
protecting their portfolios relative to assets like equities that have
very little indogenous cash flow to them. The second thing
that we use is a series of proprietary hedging techniques,
most of which involve identifying an equity overlay in which
(23:37):
we are long companies that never need to tap capital markets,
and we are short companies that do need to continually
tap capital markets. When you enter into concerning periods and
financial distress, that ability to refinance comes into question. That
causes the relative performance of those two series to shift
in a way that's very similar to credit spread, and
(24:01):
it ultimately offers protection to my portfolio that's worked extraordinarily
well over the past couple of years. That's really the
primary focus is making sure that our investors are protected
against rising credit spreads. And again, today was an interesting one.
We just didn't see that much response in the credit market.
Speaker 2 (24:18):
So we know that the shutdown has meant a lack
of key economic data. And I'm curious to get your
take on the time that will be required for visibility,
adequate visibility to return to help understand not only FED policy,
but what's going on in the broader economy.
Speaker 7 (24:36):
Well, I think this is one of the great ironies, right,
You never shut down your system if you actually don't
have a meaningful competitive advantage in the private sector. Firms
like Rovolo and True Inflation to a certain extent, ADP,
the NFIB, etc. Those are all providing private sector data
(24:57):
that I think many of us are actually looking at
and saying, other than the fence fixation on the official data,
we feel like we have a pretty good grasp on this.
So it's the data that we're getting. In some ways,
removing the noise of the official releases has caused more
and more people to seek out private sector alternatives. My
hunches is that those will remain part of the arsenal.
Speaker 2 (25:19):
When you speak of private sector alternatives, I'm curious to
get your take on what we've been seeing lately in
the private credit space. Is that a cause of concern
for you well?
Speaker 7 (25:31):
As a credit investor. That's very, very much a cause
of concern on two fronts. One, the absolutely insane growth
in terms of capital that was committed to private credit
has helped to underpin the very tight credit spreads that
we've seen in areas like high yield companies that we're
facing risks of refinancing were often able to turn to
(25:52):
private credit firms in order to obtain sources of funds
that they might not have been able to otherwise obtain
in places like high yield. The second component of it
is is that we've seen an extraordinary divergence start to
play out over the last six months, where areas like
high yield have experienced very tight credit spreads even as
(26:13):
proxies for private credit have seen their equivalent spreads widen dramatically.
There's a divergence that we've really never seen to this
degree before in the markets. It suggests that the public
sector measures of private credit, things like BDC's trading at
a discount, business development companies trading at a discount to
(26:34):
their nav or price to book, are actually somewhat of
a value in the credit space. Because people have been
seeking ways to hedge private credit, they've been using publicly
traded BDCs to do so. My hunch is this is
going to be a little bit of a buy the rumor,
sell the news type event. Lots of concerns around hedging
have pushed down BDC prices. Private credit itself remains untouched.
(26:58):
High yield spreads remain very very tight, certainly relative to history.
There's an interesting scenario in which is the information begins
to flow out, we actually see how yield begin to
suffer relative to where we've publicly marked things like business
development corps.
Speaker 2 (27:14):
What about the use of debt to finance a lot
of the buildout that we have seen lately in AI infrastructure.
Is that a cause of concern for you?
Speaker 7 (27:24):
Well, that I think is actually a really big cause
of concern, because ultimately this has become extraordinarily incestuous. Remember
that a firm like Microsoft didn't actually make a cash
investment in open Ai. They largely made a contribution of
a zure operating use, which meant that open ai had
cash equivalents that they could use for purchasing access to
(27:47):
data centers and GPUs. If open Ai can't actually finance
its buildout, or if Meta or Oracle or others cannot
core you, for example, cannot finance their build out, that
calls into question open ais growth. That calls into question
their ability to effectively utilize those as your credits, which
(28:09):
then means that Microsoft could place could face pressure on
the revenue side. So these are all very very tightly linked.
At this point. A sizeable fraction of US GDP growth
is tied into this area, and I think people are
appropriately starting to say, hey, wait, a second. Does this
make that much sense?
Speaker 2 (28:27):
Will leave it there, Michael, Thank you so very much.
Michael Green there. He is the chief strategist also portfolio
manager at Simplify Asset Management. Joining us here on the
Daybreak Asia Podcast. Thanks for listening to today's episode of
the Bloomberg Daybreak Asia Edition podcast. Each weekday, we look
at the story shaping markets, finance, and geopolitics in the
(28:49):
Asia Pacific. You can find us on Apple, Spotify, the
Bloomberg Podcast YouTube channel, or anywhere else you listen. Join
us again tomorrow for insight on the market moves from
Hong Kong to Singapore and Australia. I'm Doug Prisoner and
this is Bloomberg
Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio News.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Welcome to the Bloomberg day Break Asia podcast. I'm Doug Christner.
The City China Conference is underway in Shanghai, and in
a moment we'll go there for a conversation with City
CEO Jane Fraser. Now this will happen against a backdrop
of equity market weakness today across the Asia Pacific following
a selloff in the States. Today's FED speak was hawkish,
(00:31):
and valuations do remain a major concern, especially in big
cap tech. We got some perspective from the APEC with
Billy Leung. He is investment strategist at Global X.
Speaker 3 (00:42):
If you look at the AI names or even the
tech names, it's actually quite solid compared to, for example,
twenty twenty five years ago. And I think a really
really good sort of view is that if you look
at twenty es ago, looking at the NAZAC, you know
over seventy percent of those companies at that time was
probably a negative free cash they were probably unprofitable, their
had net debts. But if you look at right now
(01:04):
in terms of the NAZAC companies, that's sort of opposite.
Right now we've flipped it over US. Seventy percent of
the tech companies in the US right now are actually
profitable and having positive free cash flow, So we are
in a much more solid fundamentals and quality. So I
always see that as more of a justification of why
I guess valuations are much higher right now.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
That was Billy Leung investment strategistic global X. We also
learned today the China's economic activity cooled more than expected
in October. There was a slump in investment and slower
growth in industrial output. Now, retail sales did top estimates
with annual growth of two point nine percent. However, month
on month, retail sales slowed for a fifth straight month.
(01:44):
Let's go next to the City China conference. Here is
Bloomberg Steven Engel for a conversation with City CEO Jane Fraser.
Speaker 4 (01:51):
So what do you hope to get out of this?
Speaker 5 (01:53):
And we're talking to all your guests and your clients
and to understand a little bit more about the China market,
which you know very well.
Speaker 4 (02:00):
But we're coming out of a bruising trade war.
Speaker 5 (02:03):
We're not even out of it yet right Some say
it's a truce, not necessarily a lasting piece.
Speaker 4 (02:08):
What has been your takeaway so far.
Speaker 6 (02:11):
I think what's interesting this time at this conference is
that it's moved away from a China for China story
and instead we have had huge interests and a large
number of investors and companies coming to China to understand
what is happening here as well as the Chinese companies
and investors that are looking much more externally now. So
(02:35):
that really feels like a sea change here. That's pretty exciting.
Speaker 5 (02:38):
How do you serve your clients against the backdrop of
two governments that are trying to de risk, if not decouple.
Speaker 6 (02:45):
No, I think the recent truth has brought some much
needed and welcome stability here.
Speaker 1 (02:54):
I think we're in a position.
Speaker 6 (02:56):
Now for both sides that wanted to have a period
now where we can just we can move ahead and
have a more stable relationship between both of them. It's transactional,
but it's in both both sides interests. We see offline
base navigating this well.
Speaker 5 (03:16):
Yeah, what's your vision for the China as the China
market as it folds into your overall restructuring plan as well?
You're now chair and CEO, first time that those two
rules have been joined in a couple of decades. Clear
mandate to carry out your vision going forward.
Speaker 4 (03:34):
What does that look like.
Speaker 5 (03:35):
When you did exit your consumer banking business here like
you did in mini markets around the world, you also
sold your retail wealth management portfolio to HSBC. You got
out of an investment bank JV with Orient Securities, I believe,
and you have an outstanding license application for your wholly
owned JV Insecurities.
Speaker 6 (03:56):
So City has been in China for one hundred and
twenty four years. We have a landmark building here in Shanghai.
And what we have done is focus our strategy and grow.
We are following our international clients around the world. We're
seeing them with renewed interest and focus in China as
(04:18):
we talked about, and then we're seeing the Chinese companies
innovating at pace on that and also looking at expanding internationally.
Speaker 1 (04:28):
So we've been.
Speaker 6 (04:28):
Growing rapidly here with a more focused strategy, and it
is the power of clarity and renewed purpose in the firm.
Speaker 5 (04:38):
Now, before this interview started, you really countered what I
said is you're pulling back a little bit from China.
Speaker 4 (04:43):
That's not at all.
Speaker 5 (04:44):
You're adding headcount. How what are your headcount numbers? When
we get headlines that your IT department maybe thirty five
hundred jobs are going to be moving elsewhere, and this
and that you pulled back from retail three or four
years ago.
Speaker 1 (04:56):
Yeah, I think you're getting the story wrong.
Speaker 4 (04:59):
Good good, That's why I receive it.
Speaker 6 (05:01):
City is on the city is on the front foot.
We are innovating, we are growing, We're helping support our clients.
Our clients are both building resiliency and they are reinventing
themselves with all the technological changes. That is no different
in China than it is in other parts of the world.
So note this is a firm with clarity of purpose,
(05:26):
with clarity of direction.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
We know where we're.
Speaker 6 (05:28):
Headed and we're really delivering strong progress. So I'm excited
by the upside that we have. I'm excited about the
progress we're making, and I see it here on the
ground in China. If we think we move away from
some of the just headwinds that we all know about
on consumer spending and on the property market, you look
(05:49):
behind that here in China. It's a manufacturing powerhouse. What
are we seeing. Fifty percent of all robotic companies in
the world are here in China. China is writing the
next chapter of its economy around advanced manufacturing, around innovation,
as well as all Chinese companies expanding internationally.
Speaker 1 (06:12):
And we're both serving.
Speaker 6 (06:15):
Seventy percent of a fortune five hundred that are here
in China as well as serving the Chinese companies locally
tap into global marketing.
Speaker 4 (06:24):
So how does that equate to what the deal flow?
You see this?
Speaker 5 (06:27):
Who's the head of Global Banking who we talked to
a couple of hours ago, extremely bullish on the amount
of deal flows going into twenty twenty six. What kind
of cross bordered with China do you see?
Speaker 6 (06:37):
Look, I think we're seeing new corridors opening up, and
the scale of ambitions not just in China but in
Asia are higher than we see really in many.
Speaker 1 (06:47):
Other parts of the world.
Speaker 6 (06:48):
So in these new corridors, we're seeing the Middle East
connecting with Asia. For the GCC, you know, they were
expecting Asia to be its largest trading partner by next year.
That's an entirely new set of flows. In the last
five years, Brazil's connection into Asia and into China again
very robust their major partners.
Speaker 1 (07:11):
So you know, the world is changing.
Speaker 6 (07:13):
Rapidly, it's adding new corridors, it's adding new flows. It's
adding new wealth and scale is the.
Speaker 1 (07:21):
Name of the game.
Speaker 4 (07:22):
What will be your strategy with wealth management?
Speaker 5 (07:24):
You got out as I said, the retail portion of
your wealth management was sold to HSBC, But you're going
to be on shore here, but you're going to do
a lot of it from Hong Kong and Singapore right now.
Speaker 6 (07:35):
So City is focused internationally, not on not on retail banking.
We are focused on serving clients who have cross border needs.
That is a very vibrant but segment of clients. Think
of individuals that are driving the mid market companies are
growing internationally. We think of the world's billionaires and wealthy
(08:00):
that need access to global markets, and then we obviously
think of investors and corporations we're doing so there's a
lot of.
Speaker 1 (08:08):
Engine of growth. It's going to be.
Speaker 6 (08:11):
Fifty percent of all of the new high network households
created in the next three years will be created here
in Asia. So our focus is on what is the
wealth proposition for those as well as supporting the companies
and the engines of growth behind them.
Speaker 5 (08:27):
So what kind of hiring is going to be needed
in this part of the world, Not necessarily China, but
the rest of Asia at a time when we're also
seeing Corporate America as they invest heavily into AI, they've
had to pull back on hiring and jobs have been cut.
Speaker 1 (08:41):
It's a great question.
Speaker 6 (08:43):
I think AI is certainly changing a lot of what
we're expecting we're going to need in the world going forward.
So from City's point of view, for example, we see
this as an opportunity to really train our talent.
Speaker 1 (08:56):
How do we empower our talent to.
Speaker 6 (08:58):
Use the AI tool so they can be smarter in
front of clients. They can spend more time serving clients
and coming up with solutions as opposed to the more
chure elements of being a banker. We don't know how
quickly it's going to change, Steve, So there'll be certainly
a lot of shift in coding jobs.
Speaker 1 (09:21):
We've seen that already. Our productivity is up.
Speaker 6 (09:24):
Nine percent year over year for our coding teams. But
there's going to be new jobs created too. None of
us quite know yet exactly how the timing will play out,
and we know there's a lot of change ahead of that,
but our approaches, we're going to invest in our talent.
Our firm is growing and that should be able to
(09:44):
support the.
Speaker 1 (09:45):
Needs going forward.
Speaker 4 (09:46):
You mentioned the Middle East.
Speaker 5 (09:47):
I think you just came back from Riard your cultair
of the US Saudi Business Council. I believe this also
vary bullet on India. Magnificent opportunity there.
Speaker 1 (09:58):
He's highest.
Speaker 5 (10:00):
Might be a little bit biased, maybe, but again, what
do you hope to get from those markets as it
fits into your restructurement and the vision that you just talked.
Speaker 1 (10:10):
About the growth plans that we have going forward.
Speaker 6 (10:14):
Because we are on the front foot, I cannot stress
that enough.
Speaker 1 (10:19):
You can see it in our results.
Speaker 6 (10:20):
So all of our businesses we're taking share, We're growing
very quickly, and our returns are improving. So as we're
looking forward its growth. Let's take India. City is larger
in India today.
Speaker 1 (10:35):
We are the.
Speaker 6 (10:36):
Largest foreign firm by revenues in India. When I look
at Korea, we are were It was just that that's
another market where we were the first foreign bank to
open the doors in Korea, and we have a very
strong position there supporting multinationals and clients.
Speaker 1 (10:55):
So as I look around the world, it's becoming.
Speaker 6 (10:59):
More focused on versification. There is also a focus on reinvention.
What we are doing is helping provide the strategic advice.
We're helping provide the financing and structuring and arranging that.
And we're also helping manage the supply chain reconfiguration.
Speaker 1 (11:16):
We're helping with the hedging and foreign exchange interest rates.
Speaker 6 (11:20):
Because volatility is a feature, it's not a bug of
this system.
Speaker 5 (11:23):
Through your restructuring, you had to get rid of the
retail side, and there's are there other areas that you
would like to divest.
Speaker 1 (11:30):
I know you have the wrong story.
Speaker 6 (11:33):
City is about growing. We're very clear foot forward, very
clear on.
Speaker 1 (11:37):
Our strategy and we're moving onwards.
Speaker 5 (11:39):
I only ask because again, the Russia situation is a
little bit different, probably than your overall strategy.
Speaker 4 (11:45):
We just got a word that Vladimir Putin.
Speaker 5 (11:48):
Approved the sale to Renaissance Capital of your bank in Russia,
probably something that you've been wanting to do for a
while but was held back.
Speaker 6 (11:55):
We have been winding down many many companies have been
the franchise in Russia. We were waiting for the final
approval to be able to sell. We've got a couple
more to go to Renaissance, but it's a tiny it's
a tiny business, so it's in the Grand scheme of
where city is, where we're investing, on what we're doing.
(12:17):
It would be good to get that done, but it's
not critical to the firm strategy going forward.
Speaker 5 (12:24):
Let's talk about the outlook in the United States right
now as we head into twenty twenty six.
Speaker 4 (12:29):
We saw the market reaction overnight.
Speaker 5 (12:30):
Simply we're seeing that the FEDS equation the bets for
possible easing coming up and now fifty to fifty hoor
is till below that because of the aspector of inflation.
Speaker 4 (12:40):
What is your outlook.
Speaker 5 (12:41):
For FED action going into the new year and the
specter of inflation rising.
Speaker 6 (12:47):
Look, I don't think we're out of the woods yet,
and there's a sensor that maybe another shoe to drop.
Speaker 1 (12:52):
It could be in tariffs or in the labor market, it.
Speaker 6 (12:55):
Could be in the asset prices that are quite high
in the States. But all of that said, we're quite
optimistic about twenty six. The challenge for the freed right
now is with the government shutdown. You know, we all
have a death of up to date data which we
could do with it's hard to make these calls of
exactly what's going on.
Speaker 1 (13:15):
Whilst we're waiting for the information.
Speaker 6 (13:18):
But as we look further out into next year, I
think the resiliency of the corporate balance sheets, the strength
companies leaning in.
Speaker 1 (13:27):
To innovation, investing in AI.
Speaker 6 (13:30):
You know, there is some I think the doomsdays will
be proven wrong.
Speaker 5 (13:35):
We're a couple months out now from when we had
concerns rise about I think there was one tricolor of
the auto subprime model lender. There were failures. There was
concerns about non performing loans. What does your balance sheet
look like as far as that and where is your
worries live?
Speaker 6 (13:54):
You know, our balance sheet is pristine, But I think
part of that is because it's very heavily our investment
grade on the corporate side, we're over eighty percent investment
grade globally, and when we look at the consumer side,
it's about eighty six percent prime. So you tend to
(14:14):
you know, we tend to see the most resilient, healthiest
parts of the economy on the balance sheet. All of
that said, we haven't seen a thing that is concerning us.
The consumer in the States is being fiscally responsible. Companies
have been building up some more cash, either for a
rainy day if it proves necessary, but most of them
(14:36):
for investment, and you know they're acting from a position
of strength. We'll keep an eye on the labor market,
We'll keep an eye on some of the areas of
mid tier players in private credit and the like. But
as far as we're concerned that second third.
Speaker 1 (14:54):
Order effects.
Speaker 6 (14:57):
The banks, the Bank's not seeing anything that we're worried about.
Speaker 5 (15:00):
Are you concerned by what some say maybe bubble forming
an AI. We talked about the advantages of AI, but
how much of a bubble are overheating?
Speaker 6 (15:09):
I'm not sure if we're just in with a lot
of our tech clients and the West Coast, I don't
think anyone was ready to say that it's a full
on a high bubble. But no one is saying that
there aren't some real pockets of let's call it the
British understatement frothiness.
Speaker 1 (15:25):
In the market. It's more around the edges.
Speaker 6 (15:30):
What I found interesting is we can see a lot
of the demand for the infrastructure build that's going in
AI and the energy for the next couple of years.
You know where you saw some opinions diverge was in
the three to five year period, probably be in danger
of overbuilding, But no one's feeling that for the big
(15:50):
investments that are going on at the moment for the
next couple of years. So I think on that one,
certainly some pockets of frothiness there on the valuations, but
the core infrastructure investments are important, and as we're seeing
in our own bank and I think many companies, we'll
(16:11):
start getting some of the productivity benefits coming through. But
the scale, the scale and the pace of investment is unprecedented,
that is for sure.
Speaker 2 (16:21):
That was Jane Fraser, CEO of City, speaking with Bloomberg.
Stephen Engel coming up a chat with Michael Green, chief
strategist and portfolio manager at Simplify Asset Management, here on
the Daybreak Asia podcast. Welcome back to the Daybreak Asia Podcast.
(16:44):
I'm Doug Chrisner. US equities sold off on Thursday after
some hawkish FED speak and a lot more in the
way of worry over valuations, especially among AI related tech.
For a closer look, I'm joined by Michael Green. He
is chief strategist and portfolio manager for Simple Asset Management. Michael,
thank you for being here. It's kind of curious because,
(17:05):
at least to me, didn't seem as though we had
a strong catalyst for today's retreat in stocks.
Speaker 7 (17:11):
I don't have a really strong sense. I mean, the
biggest thing that I think we've seen is just a
general uncertainty and unease with the narrative that AI was
going to turn out to be everything. You know, there's
some evidence that that has broken a little bit. At
least we've broken the back of that move. At the
same time, I'm not yet seeing evidence that we have
(17:34):
got any form of meaningful retail redemptions or reductions in
terms of flow. The most interesting story I heard today
is that firms like Schwab started to place some limitations
around margin and the ability to access margin on a
daily basis, and so that that may have played a role.
Speaker 2 (17:56):
So would you agree with the statement that the pullback
that we saw today is especially in tech, makes next
week's earnings from Nvidio more important than ever.
Speaker 7 (18:07):
I think that's right, although I will be very frank
with you that I think ultimately in Video's earnings, while
they may engender and immediate response, are going to play
a less important role in this than whether Americans continue
to have jobs and the economy doesn't slow significantly. I'm
(18:28):
much more about the flows of investment and the largest
flows continue to be simply coming from retail with contributions
into passive vehicles.
Speaker 2 (18:37):
So what about the rotation that we have seen away
from tech and into defensive names like healthcare and consumer staples.
And we know that valuations are a major concern. Are
you seeing an acceleration in repositioning right now? Is that
really what the dynamic is all about?
Speaker 7 (18:55):
I think much less so. So that's part of what
I was highlighting in terms of it being a broad day.
Right So we're down thirty five basis points strong balance
sheets were down sixty six basis points. Value even if
I just isolate for the long component of it was
down about eighty three basis points. There really was no
segment of the market that was untouched. We clearly saw
(19:17):
a break in areas like unprofitable technology and relatively recent momentum,
which have been leading the market for the past several months.
Those clearly we saw sold. It's less clear that we
saw significant buying in the defensive areas.
Speaker 2 (19:34):
To what extent was hawkish FED speak at culprit because
if you look at what some of the major FED players,
and I'm thinking of Kashkari in Minneapolis, maybe to a
lesser extent, Musalom from Saint Louis. They are still very
much concerned about the impact of higher inflation. And I
don't know whether or not you feel the same way
(19:54):
as they may feel, but clearly the market right now
is pricing less than a fifty percent chance of a
RAID cut in December. To what extent is the FED
a component here and what we're talking about.
Speaker 7 (20:07):
I think that's actually a far more critical component. The
pressure that we're seeing on the fixed income space with
retreating from the expectations and nearly one hundred percent expectations
that the FED would cut in December are not all
that different than what we saw at the tail end
of last year. And this is something that I've actually
written about in advance. I've highlighted it repeatedly. We have
(20:28):
a problem with our seasonal inflation adjustments. The COVID dynamics
and the Russian invasion of Ukraine through traditional seasonality and
CPI off that's actually causing many of the indicators, and
I'm sure the FED is tracking these privately as well.
It's caused many of the indicators of inflation to actually
(20:50):
become atypical seasonally. When you attempt to seasonally adjust them,
it shows Q four and Q one inflation as higher.
My hunch is that this is just wrong right, that
ultimately what we're seeing is a slowing in the housing market,
that the pressure from tariffs is now translating to lower
aggregate demand, and that in turn means that inflation is
(21:14):
likely to be quite low next year. As we come
into you know, April, May June, we'll see the same
narrative shift. Oh my gosh, inflation's nowhere near as bad
as we thought it was, and the FED will again return.
But this was exactly the risk that the FED was
going to become overly conservative and slow in response to
(21:35):
atypical seasonality and pricing.
Speaker 2 (21:37):
Information on the goods inflation side, away from food and
energy for a moment, can we assume that the story
in China, the deflation story in China, means that China
will continue to export deflation.
Speaker 7 (21:53):
I think that's a good assumption. I think the key
issue that we need to remember with China is that
China is increasingly automating much of its production. That means
that their productivity continues to move a pace in the
production of goods. Because China's population is now shrinking, their
aggregate demand, It's very difficult to grow that domestically, so
(22:16):
you simultaneously have expanding domestic production and flat to down
domestic aggregate demand, which we see very clearly in China's
import data. As a result, China is forced to export
deflation and goods and to a lesser extent, technological services
around the globe in the hopes of finding somebody else
(22:38):
to buy what they want. That's particularly acute in an
environment in which the Americans are saying, you know no Moss.
Speaker 2 (22:44):
Michael, talk to me about some of the strategies that
you're putting in place to protect against downside in the
equity market.
Speaker 7 (22:53):
Well, fortunately, I have less direct involvement in the equity
markets than I do in the fixed income markets and
the fixed in income markets. There's two sources of protection.
One is rates themselves. Right now, that's working against you
because the concerns that the FED is going to back
away from cutting rates cutting yields. But ultimately that is
(23:14):
a source of protection. Those indogenous cash flows will continue
to flow in the form of coupons, etc. Two, investors
protecting their portfolios relative to assets like equities that have
very little indogenous cash flow to them. The second thing
that we use is a series of proprietary hedging techniques,
most of which involve identifying an equity overlay in which
(23:37):
we are long companies that never need to tap capital markets,
and we are short companies that do need to continually
tap capital markets. When you enter into concerning periods and
financial distress, that ability to refinance comes into question. That
causes the relative performance of those two series to shift
in a way that's very similar to credit spread, and
(24:01):
it ultimately offers protection to my portfolio that's worked extraordinarily
well over the past couple of years. That's really the
primary focus is making sure that our investors are protected
against rising credit spreads. And again, today was an interesting one.
We just didn't see that much response in the credit market.
Speaker 2 (24:18):
So we know that the shutdown has meant a lack
of key economic data. And I'm curious to get your
take on the time that will be required for visibility,
adequate visibility to return to help understand not only FED policy,
but what's going on in the broader economy.
Speaker 7 (24:36):
Well, I think this is one of the great ironies, right,
You never shut down your system if you actually don't
have a meaningful competitive advantage in the private sector. Firms
like Rovolo and True Inflation to a certain extent, ADP,
the NFIB, etc. Those are all providing private sector data
(24:57):
that I think many of us are actually looking at
and saying, other than the fence fixation on the official data,
we feel like we have a pretty good grasp on this.
So it's the data that we're getting. In some ways,
removing the noise of the official releases has caused more
and more people to seek out private sector alternatives. My
hunches is that those will remain part of the arsenal.
Speaker 2 (25:19):
When you speak of private sector alternatives, I'm curious to
get your take on what we've been seeing lately in
the private credit space. Is that a cause of concern
for you well?
Speaker 7 (25:31):
As a credit investor. That's very, very much a cause
of concern on two fronts. One, the absolutely insane growth
in terms of capital that was committed to private credit
has helped to underpin the very tight credit spreads that
we've seen in areas like high yield companies that we're
facing risks of refinancing were often able to turn to
(25:52):
private credit firms in order to obtain sources of funds
that they might not have been able to otherwise obtain
in places like high yield. The second component of it
is is that we've seen an extraordinary divergence start to
play out over the last six months, where areas like
high yield have experienced very tight credit spreads even as
(26:13):
proxies for private credit have seen their equivalent spreads widen dramatically.
There's a divergence that we've really never seen to this
degree before in the markets. It suggests that the public
sector measures of private credit, things like BDC's trading at
a discount, business development companies trading at a discount to
(26:34):
their nav or price to book, are actually somewhat of
a value in the credit space. Because people have been
seeking ways to hedge private credit, they've been using publicly
traded BDCs to do so. My hunch is this is
going to be a little bit of a buy the rumor,
sell the news type event. Lots of concerns around hedging
have pushed down BDC prices. Private credit itself remains untouched.
(26:58):
High yield spreads remain very very tight, certainly relative to history.
There's an interesting scenario in which is the information begins
to flow out, we actually see how yield begin to
suffer relative to where we've publicly marked things like business
development corps.
Speaker 2 (27:14):
What about the use of debt to finance a lot
of the buildout that we have seen lately in AI infrastructure.
Is that a cause of concern for you?
Speaker 7 (27:24):
Well, that I think is actually a really big cause
of concern, because ultimately this has become extraordinarily incestuous. Remember
that a firm like Microsoft didn't actually make a cash
investment in open Ai. They largely made a contribution of
a zure operating use, which meant that open ai had
cash equivalents that they could use for purchasing access to
(27:47):
data centers and GPUs. If open Ai can't actually finance
its buildout, or if Meta or Oracle or others cannot
core you, for example, cannot finance their build out, that
calls into question open ais growth. That calls into question
their ability to effectively utilize those as your credits, which
(28:09):
then means that Microsoft could place could face pressure on
the revenue side. So these are all very very tightly linked.
At this point. A sizeable fraction of US GDP growth
is tied into this area, and I think people are
appropriately starting to say, hey, wait, a second. Does this
make that much sense?
Speaker 2 (28:27):
Will leave it there, Michael, Thank you so very much.
Michael Green there. He is the chief strategist also portfolio
manager at Simplify Asset Management. Joining us here on the
Daybreak Asia Podcast. Thanks for listening to today's episode of
the Bloomberg Daybreak Asia Edition podcast. Each weekday, we look
at the story shaping markets, finance, and geopolitics in the
(28:49):
Asia Pacific. You can find us on Apple, Spotify, the
Bloomberg Podcast YouTube channel, or anywhere else you listen. Join
us again tomorrow for insight on the market moves from
Hong Kong to Singapore and Australia. I'm Doug Prisoner and
this is Bloomberg
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