Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, Radio News.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Welcome to the Bloomberg Daybreak Asia Podcast. I'm Charlie Pella.
Doug Prisoners off. This week, the S and P five
hundred was on the brink of all time highs in
the Tuesday session before losing steam. Coming up, we'll get
a look at markets from the APAK perspective when we
hear from Vishnu Varathan, the head of Economics and Strategy
(00:32):
at Misaho Bank. But we begin with trade. President Trump
says tariffs on semiconductor and pharmaceutical imports will be announced
within the next week or so. Trump added that he
was getting very close to a deal with China to
extend a trade truce between the two countries. For more,
we heard from Bloomberg News Desk editor Jill Dissis. She
(00:54):
spoke with Bloomberg's Heidi Stroud Watts.
Speaker 1 (00:58):
Let's start off with the fam thread that it will
start off small, but then potentially one hundred and fifty
two hundred and fifty percent.
Speaker 3 (01:05):
Yeah, I mean, HEDI I think at this point, you know,
this is just the latest in this round of sectoral
tariffs that we're really expecting from Trump. In addition to
pharmaceutical goods. He's also talked about tariffs on you know, chips,
semiconductor opponents, that kind of thing that I think he's
still a little bit fuzzy on what exactly those numbers
would look like. You know, obviously, you know, we do
(01:26):
have to emphasize this is trump. You know, a lot
of this you know, has the tendency to kind of
change and sort of shift over time. I think at
this stage, when it comes to some of those pharmaceutical
tariffs that he's talking about, it's really just about seeing
what that initial number is and then how much he
actually sticks to this idea of hiking rates. I mean,
you know, one hundred and fifty percent, two hundred and
(01:46):
fifty percent, we're talking incredibly high terraf rates that could
potentially be faced in this industry, very very industry disrupting.
But the one thing that I do also want to
emphasize with some of these tariffs that he's talking about,
these sectoral tariffs, so the pharmaceutical ones, what he's talked
about on chips, is that you know a big difference
between this and then say these other reciprocal tariffs that
he's you know, been you know, handing down country by country.
(02:09):
Is that these sectoral tariffs are something that you know,
comes out of a Commerce Department investigation, and they're actually
much more difficult to roll back, you know, once they're
in place. So I do think that's one thing that
maybe you're looking at in terms of market reaction. But yeah,
I mean, again a lot of uncertainty about this, but
that's you know, often the case when it comes to Trump.
Speaker 1 (02:28):
And uncertainty, so always sound with China, but it all
kind of sounds like the move music is positive on,
you know, pushing back this this deadline.
Speaker 3 (02:36):
Really yeah, so that's the the ninety day reprieve that
we've got from those incredibly high China tariffs. It does
seem like they're pretty well situated to push that maybe
another you know ninety days or so, so that that
deadline for that reprieve is supposed to expire on August twelfth,
so you know, getting into next week there, I think,
you know, when it comes to China, really, you know,
(02:56):
the big sort of looming thing in the background is
this idea that there could potentially be a meeting between
President Trump and Chinese President Chijinping later this year. You know,
maybe you know, in soul during an APEX summit is
a good opportunity to make that happen. Trump did say
overnight that, you know, he's not necessarily focused on, you know,
wanting to have that kind of meeting. He said, you know, essentially,
(03:18):
if it happens, it happens. If it doesn't, it doesn't.
But I do think that that, at least in the
broader context of US China relations, is one thing that
you know, maybe is you know, kind of that impetus
for you know, having that meeting. Although you know, I
would point out that as part of Trump's larger, you know,
sort of campaign to try to pressure Putin into ending
of Russia's war in Ukraine, He's really kind of targeted
(03:41):
the potential for higher tariffs on nations that sell oil
to that buy oil from Russia. You know, obviously India
being the primary target, but China is also a pretty
significant buyer of Russian oils. So not sure how much
that might sort of put a wrinkle in some of
these talks about a potential truce there.
Speaker 1 (03:58):
Yeah, it's really interesting to see if that pros is
going to differ when it comes to how they approach
that with Beijing. Versus New Delhi ride because they seem
to be sticking into a hard line with India.
Speaker 3 (04:10):
Yeah, that's right. It's actually really interesting to see sort
of those parallels there because you know, while you know,
obviously we just had this discussion about a potential pause
and you know, further truce with the China tariffs. Yeah,
I mean, India, you know, was slapped with a twenty
five percent tariff you know, last week, you know, going
into effect later this week. And it's really Trump has
really seized on that idea of India as a buyer
(04:31):
of Russian oil as a significant reason for that. And
then obviously we've talked about these threats he's threatening to
you know, impose even higher tariffs talking about that oil specifically.
I mean, you know, India obviously has made great strides
trying to get lower rates. You know, they were really
one of the first out of the gate earlier this
year when they were trying to negotiate early low rates
from the Trump administration. Obviously that hasn't panned out, and
(04:54):
they really have become you know, sort of this collateral
damage and Trump's ultimate push to try to put pressure
on Putin you know, where we kind of go from here.
We'll have to see whether India is successful negotiating there.
But yeah, I mean at this point, Moon music not
very positive at the moments, and we're still kind of
waiting to see what exactly Trump's threats of higher tariffs
(05:15):
that could impact India will ultimately look like.
Speaker 1 (05:18):
The news desk editor Jodes is there.
Speaker 2 (05:30):
Welcome back to the Daybreak Asia podcast. I'm Charlie Paladin
for Doug Curisner. This week, US stocks faltered Tuesday after
weakening services data fueled uncertainty about the federal reserves policy path.
The pullback highlights investor anxiety over the Fed's next move,
and for a closer look, we heard from Vishnu Varathan,
(05:52):
the head of economics and Strategy at Mizoho Bank. He
spoke with Bloomberg's Heidi Stroud Watts and Hustlinda Ahman.
Speaker 4 (06:00):
You could have you with us. You know, when you
take a look at the data, increasingly you get a
sense that perhaps there's a shift in the US economy.
First it was the labor data, we can expect it
now its services. Is there a sense things have changed?
Speaker 5 (06:15):
Well, I think we always took a view that you know,
the household cash flows were tightening up, so as a
result of that, you were going to get softer outlook
coming through, and I think that the corporates as well.
Our sense was that the hiring intent was somehow less
aggressive at the very least, and now it's turned cautious,
(06:38):
which is why sometimes you get numbers that suggest that
hours being worked are longer, but that may be getting
more out of what you have rather than hiring more. So, yes,
there is a softening in the data. But there are
two fair warnings here. One is there's a lot of
distortions due to the tariffs anticipation of which means corporate
behavior is different, front loading, so on and so forth.
(06:58):
Consumer behavior could all be different in so far that
consumers you're watching these headlines, it's hard not to look
at the elephant in the room, my frontload some spending saying,
you know, I much rather take on inventory that is
not tariffy at than take on the cost later. So
the data would be bumpy, and the second layer of
uncertainty is but it still doesn't take away the problem
that simultaneously you could have a price shock and then
(07:20):
you end up with a fat that still sits on
a sharper dilemma, but a dilemma nonetheless, so it doesn't
distract from the Fat's dilemma, but it does point to
the fact that we probably need to, you know, actively
look at two sided risks rather than just focus on
prices alone.
Speaker 4 (07:36):
So data is weakening, and that's even before you factor
in the impact of terrorists, which will come Powell says
at the end of the year. So Powell could be wrong,
he could be too late in the game.
Speaker 5 (07:50):
I'm glad some could be right. I'm glad you brought
that out because to your point, the teriff effect will
come through later. But the real question around that is
that durably inflationary or is it actually ultimately deflationary because
the consumer ends up having to dish out more cash
but end up consuming less, hence starts to pull back
in terms of the equality of consumption or quantity of consumption.
(08:13):
So those are the things that we don't know yet,
and I think that's really what Power is alluding to.
He doesn't know what the outcomes are, and to be
fair to Power, I don't think he wants to be late.
But he has suggested the direction of travel for rates
is lower. It's just that given the uncertainty and the
things that keep moving all around, he doesn't know which
way to go yet. My last point on that is
(08:35):
pausing is not aesthetic thing. As time passes, the economy
weakens further, so your response function needs to be there.
So by pausing and saying we're assessing, you're actively, perhaps
possibly weakening the economy further than you have to. So
that's a point that we must be cognizant of.
Speaker 1 (08:51):
In the meantime, we've seen data for the age of
Pacific holding up pretty well right, and we've seen central
banks really kind of be able to focus more on
growth this part of the world. There are some exceptions.
How much pressure is the Indian economy going to come
under as we look to the RBI decision. Is there
any way out in terms of that structural relationship with
Russian crews?
Speaker 5 (09:13):
I think highly that's perhaps the question on every Indian
policy maker's mind. Probably for context, we have to put
this in place, which is the imports of Russian crude
goes well beyond the net trate balance involved. It is
integral to the economy because the economy needs low cost
energy to supply and broaden growth out which is why
(09:36):
it becomes a painful decision. That kind of informs us
why India has pushed back so hard as well, rather
than just conceding. But I don't think the RBI has
a solution here. There are two parts that need to work.
One part is because the Russian crude imports will ramped
up so quickly from almost being a negligible share of
(09:57):
crude imports pre Ukraine War, it has come up to
about the eight percent. Surely they can pare that back
as a negotiation, but they might want to keep that
option intact. Whereas the RBI has rightly front loaded its cuts.
Probably the best position to be is to pause right
now because the RBA doesn't want to compromise the rupee
further at this point. That would just add to the
(10:17):
stress rather than easy. So the trade off in terms
of getting some easy, you know, easy for the economy
versus rupe instability suggests that the RBI should hold even
though they've got scope to ease a lot more. And
I think that's what the RBI will stick with, Especially
after the fifty basis point cut where RBA shifted to
neutral stands they probably wouldn't want to back pedal on
(10:39):
that too quickly.
Speaker 1 (10:40):
At the same time, we're also watching these sort of
extended conversations about extension of the truth with China. Right,
is it interesting to you that they kind of seem
to be happy to kick the can down the road
for what is probably the most complex of these trade
and strategic, you know, strategically competitive conversations.
Speaker 5 (11:00):
It's not at all surprising. I mean, China just came
out saying I've got swag and I'm not afraid to
use it. Sorry, I meant leverage. So clearly we saw
that this is not the Trump one point, Oh China,
who's willing to concede and say let's get on with
business as usual because we hope things will revert. This
is a China that's realized there's no reversion and there
is a certain element of industrial survival and so on
(11:23):
and so forth. So they're going to push hard, use
every leverage, and I think the US now knows that
there are some buttons they can't push it, which is
why there's an extension. There's further concessions and there will
be some sort of a compromise. But structurally, the US
trying to antagonism is not going well because in the
background we do still see tightening on chips, so on
and so forth, so that we can't get distracted about.
(11:45):
What we need to be aware of is perhaps the
US will not go all out to hit China because
the very near term impact on market stability, particularly long
end yields, is not going to augur well. And the
Cell America team is something that they wouldn't want to
push them. They're the envelope on too much.
Speaker 4 (12:03):
China has swagged. It also has a lot of liquidity
along with the US, right, so that means the markets
where you be well supported. Is that a fair assumption.
Speaker 5 (12:13):
I would say that the markets will be well supported,
particularly given some of the optimism around the stimulus they're
putting in place, backstops, so on and so forth. But
let's not forget the fact that China is coming from
a place of weakness. There is that property market overhang
that doesn't go away near term fiscal backstop to get
(12:35):
demand going on the household and not quite a done deal.
I mean, it's a great start, but you know it's
a thousand mile journey. Baby steps are important, but they
haven't concluded the game. And I think on the industrial end.
China is still has caught some edge, but needs to
really keep that edge. And that's probably where I think
the policy tradeoffs come because between financial stability and providing
(12:57):
sufficient credit, that trade off has an goneaway. We just
need to look at how the relocation plays out as
we look at China.
Speaker 4 (13:05):
Vishn great insight, always very candid. Vishnu Varraiton, Head of
Economics and Strategy at Misiho Bank.
Speaker 6 (13:16):
Thanks for listening to today's episode of the Bloomberg Daybreak
Asia Edition podcast. Each weekday, we look at the story
shaping markets, finance, and geopolitics in the Asia Pacific. You
can find us on Apple, Spotify, the Bloomberg Podcast YouTube channel,
or anywhere else you listen. Join us again tomorrow for
insight on the market moves from Hong Kong to Singapore
(13:38):
and Australia. I'm Doug Prisner, and this is Bloomberg