December 18, 2025 • 7 mins
The EU's foreign policy chief Kaja Kallas says it's a "crucial" moment for Ukraine's future, as European leaders meet in Brussels to decide on how to financially support Kyiv. "Putin is banking on us to fail, and we shouldn't give them that," she told Bloomberg's Stephen Carroll in Brussels.
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio News.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Hello, Stephen Carroll here in Brussels. In addition to our
Daybreak euro podcast today, we wanted to bring you an
important conversation from our radio show this morning. European leaders
are here in Brussels for a crucial summit for Ukraine's future.
The EU's foreign policy chief, Kayak Kallas join me in
our studio to talk about the key issue up for
discussion at that meeting around how to support Keev financially,
(00:29):
but also her view of the ongoing attempts driven by
Washington to end Russia's war in Ukraine. And we also
talked about some of the criticism of the EU that's
come from the Trump administration recently. This is a critical
moment for the European Union, for Ukraine and for the
Transatlantic relationship, and Kayakllas is one of the most important
voices in these discussions. Our conversation started by talking about
(00:51):
the proposal being decided on today whether to use frozen
Russian Central Bank assets to back a ninety billion euro
loan for Ukraine. I asked Kaya Kallas what she saw
as the chances for a deal.
Speaker 1 (01:03):
As President Koshta has said that we are not going
to leave the meeting unless so we have the agreement.
So we definitely have to have the agreement by the
end of this day or tomorrow, but it's going to
be the discussions are going to be long, but hopefully
we'll get there.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
How much progress has been made since the last European Council, when,
of course it emerged that this was going to be
a particularly difficult issue to win Belgian support over.
Speaker 1 (01:31):
It has been very difficult and there has been a
lot of work done, but still not all finalized. So
let's see how it goes today. I think I agree
with the Chancellor Mertz who said that it's fifty to
fifty that we get it done. The reparations loan is
the most viable option for the financing, and it's also
(01:54):
the right thing to do because it's based on the
reparations that Russia owes to Ukraine.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
What happens if there isn't a deal? Is there a
Plan B?
Speaker 1 (02:03):
Well, right now we are focusing on Plan A, because
if you start to think about Plan B, then Plan
B happens. So right now the work is on Plan A.
Speaker 2 (02:13):
How important is this financing for ukraine presence? Lanski's coming
to today's meeting. I'm sure he's going to be wanting
to put as much pressure as possible on European leaders.
How crucial is it.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
It is crucial. Putin is banking on us to fail
and we shouldn't give them that. Really, I mean, Putin
wants to make the picture like you know, they can
go on forever and he can outlast us, which is
not true if you look how the Russian economy is
(02:46):
doing and the sanctions are really biting. So so I
think this is a very important moment to show. I
mean three messages really, One message to Ukraine that we
are supporting them in their heart struggles. A second message
to Russia that he you know, they can't outlast us.
And third message to also United States of America that
(03:09):
we are you know, doing and taking these very strong steps.
Speaker 2 (03:12):
But just in the alternative, I mean, there's been so
much criticism of the EU, particularly coming from the US
on this front. If a deal isn't done, what sort
of signal does that sound about the EU and it's
support for Ukraine.
Speaker 1 (03:24):
Well, clearly, like I said, I mean, put In is
banking on us to fail. Let's not give him that
and it is definitely standing wrong signal. But as I said,
we are working on Plan A. We are working on
getting this over the final finishing line, so hopefully we'll
get it done.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
Does that mean moving without Belgium if we can't win
their support?
Speaker 1 (03:47):
A lot, a lot of Member states have said that,
you know, Belgium is crucial, so they have to be
on board with this. So though otherwise it is a
qualified majority vote, so it doesn't mean that everybody has
to agree. But considering that Belgium has the majority of
the assets, I think it's important that they feel comfortable
with the solution.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
More broadly, when we're thinking about where the peace talks
are now over trying to end the war in Ukraine,
what's your understanding of where the progress is now, how
close there could we could be to a piece deal.
Speaker 1 (04:22):
Well, there is a strong push for peace, but it's
a bit one sided because we haven't seen any concessions
on Russian side or any movement on their side to
agree to anything, even you know, the ceasefire for Christmas
so that people wouldn't be living under the fear of
(04:43):
bombing also Christmas Eve. But Russia is not accepting this,
so they are still presenting their maximized maximalist codes, so
we don't see any development there.
Speaker 2 (04:57):
Are you confident that they can be actually brought to
an agreement? Do you see any interest from Russia in
actually ending this war?
Speaker 1 (05:05):
Not right now? And that's why we need to put
the pressure on them, because we need to go from
the place where they are pretending to negotiate to them
actually to be in the need to negotiate. And we
are out there.
Speaker 2 (05:20):
Where is the EU in this process? It seems like
a lot of the discussions are happening between Moscow and Washington.
Is are European views being listened to and the plans
that are being drawn up?
Speaker 1 (05:31):
For any deal to work, it has to have the
Europeans on board because there are a lot of elements
that are European really, I mean, it concerns European security.
So for any deal to work, you need to have
the consent and the understanding of the Europeans.
Speaker 2 (05:52):
We've had another week where the Trump administration has been
very critical of the EU. How would you describe the
transatlantic relationship now?
Speaker 1 (06:01):
Well, it's definitely different than it was before. And of course,
you know, we have seen the criticism read the criticism,
but you know, for me, it is just totally false.
I mean, I come from a country where we didn't
have freedoms, and I know that we have them now.
(06:22):
And for example, the country that I come from is
ranking second in the Press Freedom Index, whereas America is
fifty eight or something like this. So you know, I
think we shouldn't really read into those criticisms because they
are not true. At the same time, of course, it
(06:43):
sends a very strong signal. So from the Americans, I
think what we should take from it is that we
should have more self confidence regarding our relations with Russia,
but also our relations with China and our allies.
Speaker 2 (06:55):
And regulation as well. Does the europe need to stand
firm over the regulations that's come in for such criticism.
Speaker 1 (07:01):
Well, certain regulations are for the benefits of the people.
Let's take the food security for example. I mean, the
food that we are eating here is so much more
pure than the food that the Americans are eating, and
that is for the health of the people.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
This is Bloomberg Daybreak Europe, your morning brief on the
stories making news from London to Wall Street and beyond.
Speaker 3 (07:24):
Look for us on your podcast feed every morning on Apple, Spotify,
and anywhere else you get your podcasts.
Speaker 2 (07:30):
You can also listen live each morning on London DAB Radio,
the Bloomberg Business app, and Bloomberg dot Com.
Speaker 3 (07:36):
Our flagship New York station, is also available on your
Amazon Alexa devices. Just say Alexa Play Bloomberg eleven thirty.
I'm Caroline Hepka.
Speaker 2 (07:45):
And I'm Stephen Carroll. Join us again tomorrow morning for
all the news you need to start your day right
here on Bloomberg day Break Europe
Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio News.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Hello, Stephen Carroll here in Brussels. In addition to our
Daybreak euro podcast today, we wanted to bring you an
important conversation from our radio show this morning. European leaders
are here in Brussels for a crucial summit for Ukraine's future.
The EU's foreign policy chief, Kayak Kallas join me in
our studio to talk about the key issue up for
discussion at that meeting around how to support Keev financially,
(00:29):
but also her view of the ongoing attempts driven by
Washington to end Russia's war in Ukraine. And we also
talked about some of the criticism of the EU that's
come from the Trump administration recently. This is a critical
moment for the European Union, for Ukraine and for the
Transatlantic relationship, and Kayakllas is one of the most important
voices in these discussions. Our conversation started by talking about
(00:51):
the proposal being decided on today whether to use frozen
Russian Central Bank assets to back a ninety billion euro
loan for Ukraine. I asked Kaya Kallas what she saw
as the chances for a deal.
Speaker 1 (01:03):
As President Koshta has said that we are not going
to leave the meeting unless so we have the agreement.
So we definitely have to have the agreement by the
end of this day or tomorrow, but it's going to
be the discussions are going to be long, but hopefully
we'll get there.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
How much progress has been made since the last European Council, when,
of course it emerged that this was going to be
a particularly difficult issue to win Belgian support over.
Speaker 1 (01:31):
It has been very difficult and there has been a
lot of work done, but still not all finalized. So
let's see how it goes today. I think I agree
with the Chancellor Mertz who said that it's fifty to
fifty that we get it done. The reparations loan is
the most viable option for the financing, and it's also
(01:54):
the right thing to do because it's based on the
reparations that Russia owes to Ukraine.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
What happens if there isn't a deal? Is there a
Plan B?
Speaker 1 (02:03):
Well, right now we are focusing on Plan A, because
if you start to think about Plan B, then Plan
B happens. So right now the work is on Plan A.
Speaker 2 (02:13):
How important is this financing for ukraine presence? Lanski's coming
to today's meeting. I'm sure he's going to be wanting
to put as much pressure as possible on European leaders.
How crucial is it.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
It is crucial. Putin is banking on us to fail
and we shouldn't give them that. Really, I mean, Putin
wants to make the picture like you know, they can
go on forever and he can outlast us, which is
not true if you look how the Russian economy is
(02:46):
doing and the sanctions are really biting. So so I
think this is a very important moment to show. I
mean three messages really, One message to Ukraine that we
are supporting them in their heart struggles. A second message
to Russia that he you know, they can't outlast us.
And third message to also United States of America that
(03:09):
we are you know, doing and taking these very strong steps.
Speaker 2 (03:12):
But just in the alternative, I mean, there's been so
much criticism of the EU, particularly coming from the US
on this front. If a deal isn't done, what sort
of signal does that sound about the EU and it's
support for Ukraine.
Speaker 1 (03:24):
Well, clearly, like I said, I mean, put In is
banking on us to fail. Let's not give him that
and it is definitely standing wrong signal. But as I said,
we are working on Plan A. We are working on
getting this over the final finishing line, so hopefully we'll
get it done.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
Does that mean moving without Belgium if we can't win
their support?
Speaker 1 (03:47):
A lot, a lot of Member states have said that,
you know, Belgium is crucial, so they have to be
on board with this. So though otherwise it is a
qualified majority vote, so it doesn't mean that everybody has
to agree. But considering that Belgium has the majority of
the assets, I think it's important that they feel comfortable
with the solution.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
More broadly, when we're thinking about where the peace talks
are now over trying to end the war in Ukraine,
what's your understanding of where the progress is now, how
close there could we could be to a piece deal.
Speaker 1 (04:22):
Well, there is a strong push for peace, but it's
a bit one sided because we haven't seen any concessions
on Russian side or any movement on their side to
agree to anything, even you know, the ceasefire for Christmas
so that people wouldn't be living under the fear of
(04:43):
bombing also Christmas Eve. But Russia is not accepting this,
so they are still presenting their maximized maximalist codes, so
we don't see any development there.
Speaker 2 (04:57):
Are you confident that they can be actually brought to
an agreement? Do you see any interest from Russia in
actually ending this war?
Speaker 1 (05:05):
Not right now? And that's why we need to put
the pressure on them, because we need to go from
the place where they are pretending to negotiate to them
actually to be in the need to negotiate. And we
are out there.
Speaker 2 (05:20):
Where is the EU in this process? It seems like
a lot of the discussions are happening between Moscow and Washington.
Is are European views being listened to and the plans
that are being drawn up?
Speaker 1 (05:31):
For any deal to work, it has to have the
Europeans on board because there are a lot of elements
that are European really, I mean, it concerns European security.
So for any deal to work, you need to have
the consent and the understanding of the Europeans.
Speaker 2 (05:52):
We've had another week where the Trump administration has been
very critical of the EU. How would you describe the
transatlantic relationship now?
Speaker 1 (06:01):
Well, it's definitely different than it was before. And of course,
you know, we have seen the criticism read the criticism,
but you know, for me, it is just totally false.
I mean, I come from a country where we didn't
have freedoms, and I know that we have them now.
(06:22):
And for example, the country that I come from is
ranking second in the Press Freedom Index, whereas America is
fifty eight or something like this. So you know, I
think we shouldn't really read into those criticisms because they
are not true. At the same time, of course, it
(06:43):
sends a very strong signal. So from the Americans, I
think what we should take from it is that we
should have more self confidence regarding our relations with Russia,
but also our relations with China and our allies.
Speaker 2 (06:55):
And regulation as well. Does the europe need to stand
firm over the regulations that's come in for such criticism.
Speaker 1 (07:01):
Well, certain regulations are for the benefits of the people.
Let's take the food security for example. I mean, the
food that we are eating here is so much more
pure than the food that the Americans are eating, and
that is for the health of the people.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
This is Bloomberg Daybreak Europe, your morning brief on the
stories making news from London to Wall Street and beyond.
Speaker 3 (07:24):
Look for us on your podcast feed every morning on Apple, Spotify,
and anywhere else you get your podcasts.
Speaker 2 (07:30):
You can also listen live each morning on London DAB Radio,
the Bloomberg Business app, and Bloomberg dot Com.
Speaker 3 (07:36):
Our flagship New York station, is also available on your
Amazon Alexa devices. Just say Alexa Play Bloomberg eleven thirty.
I'm Caroline Hepka.
Speaker 2 (07:45):
And I'm Stephen Carroll. Join us again tomorrow morning for
all the news you need to start your day right
here on Bloomberg day Break Europe
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