January 28, 2025 • 25 mins
On today's podcast:
1) DeepSeek Shows China Playbook to Deal an Even Bigger Shock to US
2) World’s Richest People Lose $108 Billion After DeepSeek Selloff
3) Trump Vows Tariffs ‘Much Bigger’ Than 2.5% and on Key Areas
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, Radio News.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Good morning, I'm Nathan Hager and I'm Karen Moscow. Here
are the stories we're following today.
Speaker 3 (00:15):
Karen, we begin with the Chinese artificial intelligence startup that
royal the global markets and led to the biggest one
day individual stock sell off in history. For the latest
on Deep Seek, let's bring in Bloomberg's John Tucker.
Speaker 4 (00:28):
John Nathan, the Deep Seek frenzy e raised five hundred
and eighty nine billion dollars from Invidious market cap, the
largest route in market history. The stock plunge seventeen percent.
The techa A Nastak tumbled nearly three percent. Jordan Klin
is managing director at Mazouoho Securities.
Speaker 3 (00:45):
It's a beginning of probably a consolidation phase and some
profit taking.
Speaker 5 (00:50):
For sure.
Speaker 4 (00:50):
Deep Seek is sparking fear over US tech dominance. Aaron
Kennon of Clear Harbor Asset Management sees it this way.
Speaker 6 (00:57):
We're seeing what I would call sort of the gradual
commoditizing of artificial intelligence.
Speaker 4 (01:02):
Deep Seek's low cost approach has reignited concerns that big
US companies have poured too much money into developing artificial
intelligence and Victoria Fernandez of Crossmarked Global Investment weigh in.
Speaker 5 (01:14):
Obviously, the tech game can turn on a dime.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
We've seen it over the last twenty four hours. I
do think that the US is probably still a little
bit of head.
Speaker 4 (01:23):
Deep Seek even drew praise from Nvidia. In Vidia set
in a statement that deep Sex model is an excellent
AI advancement, and deep See's progress suggests Chinese AI engineers
have found a way to work around US semiconductor export bands,
focusing on greater efficiency with limited resources. The latest AI
model of deep Seek, it's called Uri, is now at
(01:46):
the top of Apple's App Store rankings, and being in
the spotlight all of a sudden also does bring problems.
The companies had to limit signups due to large scale
malicious attacks on its services, and even this morning the
company reports degraded performance. In this morning, Nathan and Karen
in videos shares we should point out they're up five percent.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
All right, John, thank you well. The Deepseak sell off
on Wall Street also hit the world's elite, and we
get that story with Bloomberg's Gino Cervetti.
Speaker 7 (02:13):
The world's five hundred richest people lost to combined one
hundred eight billion on Monday. Billionaires whose fortunes are linked
to artificial intelligence were the biggest losers, and Vidio's CEO
Jensen Wang saw his fortune fall more than twenty billion dollars,
or a twenty percent drop. Oracle co founder Larry Ellison's
twenty two point six billion dollar loss was larger in
(02:35):
absolute terms, but represented twelve percent of his fortune. Dell's
Michael Dell lost at thirteen billion. Soaring valuations for so
called AI hyperscalers including Meta, Alphabet and Microsoft have generated
billions in wealth for their owners since open Ai unveiled
chat GPT in November of twenty twenty two. These companies
(02:55):
have spent huge sums to develop and run AI systems
by hoarding top of the line semiconductors and the energy
supplies needed to run them. Gina Cervetti Bloomberg Radio.
Speaker 5 (03:06):
All right, Gina, thank you.
Speaker 3 (03:07):
One of deep Seek's biggest competitors in the US could
be open Ai, and in a post on x the
company CEO Sam Aldman said deep seeks are one is
an impressive model. He added quote we will obviously deliver
much better models, and also it's legit invigorating to have
a new competitor end quote. Meanwhile, we caught up with
tech investor Cathy Wood to get her reaction about Deep Seek.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
I think what it's telling us is the cost of
innovation is collapsing, which it has been doing. I mean,
the cost of AI training is dropping before this seventy
five percent per year, the cost for inference eighty five
to ninety percent. I think it throws the weight more
towards inference chips from training chips, and so in Vidia's
(03:53):
highly exalted and deservedly so in the training chip space.
Speaker 3 (03:57):
Our Investments CEO Kathy Would made the comments in an
interview with Bloomberg earlier this morning in London.
Speaker 5 (04:03):
On Nathan.
Speaker 2 (04:03):
President Trump also weighing in on deep Seek.
Speaker 8 (04:06):
The release of Deepseek AI from a Chinese company should
be a wake up call for our industries that we
need to be laser focused on competing to win because
we have the greatest scientists in the world.
Speaker 2 (04:20):
And Trump also sees deep Seek's apparent breakthrough as good
because quote, you don't have to spend as much money.
Speaker 9 (04:26):
Thank care.
Speaker 3 (04:26):
And the President's also weighing in on the future of
another Chinese company, TikTok, he told reporters on air Force
one that Microsoft is in talks to acquire the hugely
popular app.
Speaker 8 (04:37):
I think somebody's going to buy it, pay a lot
of money, have a lot of jobs, keep a platform.
Speaker 1 (04:42):
Open, and having to be very secure.
Speaker 2 (04:44):
If I don't sign that, it closes.
Speaker 3 (04:47):
Following the President's comments, Microsoft declined to comment on the
company's involvement in any possible deal Well Nathan.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
President Trump is also laying out more details on his
tariff plans. At a speech to House Republicans at his
direlt golf club, the President said he plans to impose
duties on computer chips, pharmaceuticals, and metals to encourage foreign
production in the US.
Speaker 8 (05:09):
We want them to come back, and we don't want
to give them billions of dollars, like this ridiculous program
that Biden has give everybody billions of dollars. They already
have billions of dollars. They've got nothing but money.
Speaker 9 (05:18):
Joe.
Speaker 2 (05:19):
Later, the President told reporters he wants to enact across
the board tariffs that are quote much bigger than two
and a half percent. Trump was responding to a Financial
Times report that is newly confirmed Treasury Secretary Scott Besant
supports starting with a global two and a half percent
tariff rate, then raising it by the same amount each
month and Karen.
Speaker 3 (05:39):
President Trump also says he hopes House Republicans will pass
legislation to complete the border wall and step up deportation efforts,
while also extending his twenty seventeen tax cuts and boosting
oil and gas production. But the President's leaving the details
up to them.
Speaker 8 (05:53):
Whether it's one bill, two bills, I don't care. Let
these guys are going to work it out. They're going
to work it out one way or the other. But
the bottom line, the result is going to be the same.
We want to have all of those benefits, and we
want to keep people's taxes low and actually make them lower.
Speaker 3 (06:07):
Following President Trump's speech, one GOP lawmaker called it not
helpful that the President wouldn't be more specific. House Speaker
Mike Johnson says lawmakers will spend much of their two
day retreat behind closed doors to come up with a strategy.
Speaker 2 (06:20):
Well. Nathan returned now to the latest developments in the
Middle East. To Bloomberg News has learned Israeli Prime Minister
Benjamin nettan Yahoo, is planning to visit Washington next week
to meet with President Trump. The sit down would come
at a critical time, just weeks until the end of
the first phase of the pause in fighting in Gaza.
Skeptics have questioned whether the deal will hold through its
second phase, which could ultimately lead to a permanent end
(06:42):
to the war in Gaza. Time now for a look
at some of the other stories making news in New
York and around the world. And for that we're joined
by Bloomberg's Michael Barr. Michael, Good Morning, Good morning, Karen.
Speaker 9 (06:54):
After rain extinguished the last of the big Palisades fire
in Los Angeles, the city is now allowing everybody to
go back in to see what remains of their homes
for the first time since the Palisades fire started in
days after President Trump visited, Los Angeles, Mayor Karen Bass
announced all evacuees can return.
Speaker 4 (07:14):
Today is really about focusing on the recovery and getting
people back home.
Speaker 9 (07:21):
This woman says some residents advised there not to go
back because there's nothing left.
Speaker 5 (07:26):
It's a lot to lose everything that you've collected. I
think over the last you know, your adult life and
even your childhood.
Speaker 9 (07:33):
The neighborhoods are only open to residents from six am
to six pm because there is no power and some
areas require a police escort to get in. The Centers
for Disease Control and Prevention staff have been ordered to
cut off all communications with the World Health Organization. This
comes following an executive order from President Trump last week.
(07:54):
A CDC's deputy director sent the directive in an email,
which which also said CDC staff to sign to work
for the who are also being told not to come
into the office. Peter Mayberduke is Access to Medicine's director
at Public Citizen.
Speaker 6 (08:13):
It's sometimes underappreciated how deeply the United States is involved
in scientific collaboration internationally. There are more than seventy who
collaborating centers in the United States. The United States pulls out,
our new political competitors are waiting to fill that gap.
Speaker 9 (08:32):
Maybordew Can Other experts say the sudden stoppage is a
surprise and will set back work on investigating and trying
to stop outbreaks of certain viruses in Africa. The MTA
next month will begin releasing monthly review collection figures from
New York City's new congestion pricing toll as. The transit
agency plans to borrow five hundred million dollars of short
(08:55):
term debt that the tolling program will ultimately repay. ZIPATL,
the MTA's deputy Chief Financial officers said the authority will
release at its Finance Committee meeting that it is so
much collected so far in pricing revenue that the agency
collected in January. New York City's congestion pricing program is
(09:16):
the first in the nation in charges most motorist nine
dollars when they interparts in Manhattan Global News twenty four
hours a day and whenever you want it with Bloomberg
News Now, Michael Barn, this is Bloomberg, Karen.
Speaker 5 (09:27):
Sorry, Malcolm Barr, thank you.
Speaker 2 (09:33):
Time now for the Bloomberg Sports Update brought to you
if I try stayed out. Eagre's John stash Hour, John
good Nortek.
Speaker 10 (09:39):
Good morning, Karen. If you score one hundred and forty
three points in an NBA game, you're going to win
the next did that Saturday. It was the most points
they had scored in a non overtime game in forty
five years. Two nights later, again at the Garden, they
scored one hundred and forty three points, again beat Memphis
by thirty seven, seven nicks and double figures. Michael Bridges
the high mand with twenty eight nixt rolling four straight
(10:01):
wins sixteen to the last twenty two, and the Celtics
lost at home to Houston. Amen Thompson thirty three points
for the Rockets at a game when he shot out
the buzzer niterion, only a game behind Boston first second
place in the East. Cleveland's in first cans for thirty
seven and nine. They beat Detroit. The Nets lost at
Barkleys to Sacramento one ten to ninety six for Brooklyn.
That's seven losses in a row, twelve the last thirteen.
(10:23):
Miami won in double overtime without Jimmy Butler, suspended for
a third time. He walked out of practice after learning
he wasn't going to start the game. Certainly appears Butler's
gonna get traded before the deadline. Devils lost four to
at Philadelphia. Nothing like overtime in indoor partially simulated golf
Tiger Woods. His team beat Rory McElroy's team in TGL.
(10:45):
Aaron Glenn introduced as the new coach of the Jets.
Here was his message to his team to any players.
Speaker 2 (10:51):
That's here.
Speaker 9 (10:51):
Now put your seatbelts on and get ready for the ride.
Speaker 11 (10:55):
Put your seatbelt zone and get ready for the ride.
Speaker 9 (10:56):
Listen.
Speaker 7 (10:57):
There are going to be some challenges, but what challenges
this becomes opportunity gets opportunity.
Speaker 9 (11:02):
But here's what I do know. We're the freaking New
York jit so.
Speaker 10 (11:05):
Who haven't made the playoffs in fifteen years. Gland was
vague when asked about whether Aaron Rodgers will return. John
stashiell Er Bloomberg Sports, Kearny Meek.
Speaker 7 (11:15):
Coast to Coast on Bloomberg Radio nationwide on Serious Exam and.
Speaker 1 (11:20):
Around the world on Bloomberg dot Com and the Bloomberg
Business app.
Speaker 5 (11:24):
This is Bloomberg Daybreak.
Speaker 4 (11:26):
Good morning.
Speaker 3 (11:26):
I'm Nathan Hager. It was the biggest single day drop
for one American company and it is thanks to an
AI startup in China. Nvidia plunged seventeen percent yesterday, wiping
away five hundred and eighty nine billion dollars in market
value on concern about deep seek and it's in competitive
AI model with less advanced chips for more. Ark Investment
(11:46):
Management CEO Kathy Wood joined Bloomberg Stephen, Carol and Lizzie
burden in our London bureau. Let's listen to that conversation.
Speaker 5 (11:53):
Now, big question, you buying the dip.
Speaker 1 (11:56):
Well, we're fully invested and we're very comfortable being fully invaded.
Speaker 5 (12:01):
I think our confidence in the.
Speaker 1 (12:04):
Bull market broadening out has increased in the last few days.
So sure the megacaps we think will continue to do well.
Maybe in Vidia there are some questions about its exalted position.
Speaker 5 (12:20):
In the training chip market.
Speaker 1 (12:23):
We think inference is going to become more important with
these new reasoning models, and that is a more competitive
part of the market.
Speaker 5 (12:31):
But we think that what's happening here is the.
Speaker 1 (12:35):
Collapse in the cost of innovation.
Speaker 5 (12:39):
Deep seek is adding to it. It has been happening though.
Speaker 1 (12:41):
AI training costs have been dropping, led by Nvidia seventy
five percent per year, and AI inference costs have been
dropping eighty five to ninety percent per year. Deep seek
is just putting those very rapid declines into.
Speaker 5 (12:59):
A bit of overdrive here.
Speaker 12 (13:01):
So I wonder, if you see in Vidia falling much further,
is this an attractive price to be buying it?
Speaker 9 (13:05):
Do you think?
Speaker 5 (13:06):
Well, we own it in some of our portfolios. We
are not buying the dip yet.
Speaker 1 (13:14):
We do want to learn more about deep seek and
more about how the market or the demand for inference
chips might outpace those for training chips. We think the
whole area is going to be vibrant. We just think
there might be a little bit more of an adjustment
to this new reality.
Speaker 11 (13:36):
Where you say that what deep seek shows is kind
of that you can do more with less kap X.
Who do you think that's going to motivate in the
US most as Donald Trump is kind of saying, who's
going to be best.
Speaker 5 (13:48):
At doing more with less?
Speaker 1 (13:50):
Well, anyone using AI. We are focused on the productivity
gains for knowledge workers, which are going to be mass
that's the biggest impact of AI. But if we're looking
at sectors and spaces generally where this acceleration and innovation
is going to be meaningful, we think autonomous mobility, so robotaxis.
(14:15):
We think that's going to scale from essentially nothing now
to an eight to ten trillion dollar global opportunity including China.
But the sleeper here is healthcare, and we're seeing the
convergence of sequencing technologies, all kinds of sequencing technologies, artificial intelligence,
and then gene editing technologies like Crisper cast nine.
Speaker 5 (14:39):
That combination we believe is going to cure disease.
Speaker 1 (14:43):
It's already curing disease, sickle cell disease and beta thlocemia.
That's Chrisper therapeutics. But we think they're aiming now for
type one and type two diabetes. That would be a
category killer, you know, So think about that curing disease,
AI helping us decode the secrets of life, death health.
Speaker 12 (15:08):
Those are two areas where regulation plays a big part.
You've spoken about your optimism about deregulation under Donald Trump.
Do you think those are two areas we should expect
to see big deregulation about what technology can get involved in.
Speaker 1 (15:22):
Yes, I think in both safety first and I think
anyone moving into this market or these markets would agree
with that. So sensible regulation. But in the US, the
robotaxi field is regulated by fifty states. We think that
will change to one regulator, the federal government. After all,
(15:45):
transportation does cross states, so that makes sense. In the
healthcare realm, that is where the thicket of regulations has
really strangled the industry. And even more than the outright regulations,
it was the FTC, the Federal Trade Commission not allowing
(16:08):
mergers and acquisitions and therefore not allowing strategic buyers, big
biotech companies, not allowing them to buy the smaller companies,
so that we had price discovery. Now we're going to
see price discovery. How much are these companies that are
(16:30):
curing disease worth to these large strategic buyers now and
saying that I don't necessarily want our companies to be
taken out. We think they have miles to go, but
we do want price discovery back in the market.
Speaker 11 (16:45):
Where you talk about your excitement about autonomous vehicles. Of
course your biggest holding is Tesla, I think yes, And
we've callt elon Musk's first earnings call tomorrow since Trump's
returned to the White House January.
Speaker 5 (16:55):
Typically a call that's a look ahead. What do you
need to hear from Mosque?
Speaker 1 (17:00):
We need to hear a continuation of we're about to
launch our autonomous driving system. I mean, in effect, they've
launched it. I have a full self driving I know
it's not allowed here in the UK or in Europe.
But the improvements you feel safe, oh yes, yes, yes, yes,
(17:25):
way more really has broken through a lot of barriers.
I feel even though a Waymo vehicle is not safer
than a human driven vehicle, it.
Speaker 5 (17:37):
Knows its roads.
Speaker 1 (17:38):
It's narrow roads, meaning there are narrow territories.
Speaker 5 (17:43):
I think Tesla is going to go national. That's going
to be and we'll.
Speaker 1 (17:48):
Be able to do so because it has effectively seven.
Speaker 5 (17:51):
Million robots roaming the roads.
Speaker 1 (17:53):
Right now, I have two of them, a Y and
A three, and they're learning all about Connecticut and Florida
worlddes So it has a huge competitive advantage in terms
of proprietary data that nobody else has about the roads,
not only in the US, but in many places around
the world.
Speaker 12 (18:13):
Do you worry that Elon Musk is taking on too much?
If he's got his new job in the US government,
he's got sharp developments coming in Tesla, lots going on
with US other businesses as well. Is he spreading himself
too thin?
Speaker 1 (18:24):
If you look at the way Elon Musk behaves as
a CEO, he's a sharpshooter.
Speaker 5 (18:31):
He looks for pain points and he solves those right.
Speaker 1 (18:35):
And he's for example, right now, where was in twenty eighteen,
where was the biggest pain point? It was manufacturing the
Model three, Scaling the Model three. He slept famously on
the factory floor. He's not doing that anymore. He's not
on the factory floor now, it's all about autonomous. He
(18:57):
is the first what we would call CEO who really
understands the convergence among technologies taking place right now, really
catalyzed by artificial intelligence each one of his businesses. And
he also understands how critically important proprietary data is. And
(19:17):
think about this, Each of those companies is generating proprietary
data that no one else has.
Speaker 5 (19:24):
Well, maybe you should out to his plate. Should he
buy us TikTok Ah?
Speaker 2 (19:29):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (19:29):
I mean, I know there have been rumors about that
and about the government.
Speaker 5 (19:35):
Sharing half, and that's kind.
Speaker 1 (19:38):
Of anathema to the United States, you know, the government
getting involved like this.
Speaker 5 (19:43):
I'd be surprised if that happens.
Speaker 1 (19:44):
But I will also say the Trump administration is full
of surprises.
Speaker 12 (19:49):
It certainly is, and we're only a weekend to it.
You're here with us in London and we're delighted to
see you.
Speaker 5 (19:54):
What has you in London?
Speaker 12 (19:55):
What opportunities are you excited about when you come to
the UK? Is this a good place to put your money?
Speaker 1 (20:01):
Well, we have launched three funds. Our Europe has launched
three funds here.
Speaker 5 (20:07):
One is our.
Speaker 1 (20:07):
Flagship that is focused on all five innovation platforms, so robotics,
energy storage, artificial intelligence, multiomic sequencing and blockchain technology. So
that's the flagship AARKK a special one for Europe which
we do not have in the US because of overlaps
(20:29):
with other funds, but we have an AI and robotics
fund and that is ARKI. We think this convergence of
robotics and AI is going to lead to humanoid robots
and not just millions of them, but perhaps billions of
(20:52):
them longer term, which is going to be a key
productivity driver in both the home right now, we're not
paid for house cleaning, Let's get a robot. Let's pay
a robot to do it. And in the manufacturing plants
around the world.
Speaker 12 (21:11):
Kathy, the Prime Minister was in the building earlier. Kris Starmer,
you're exactly the sort of person that he wants to
meet because he wants investments going into those sorts of
businesses in this country. Have you spoken to him, what
sort of device would you be giving him if he's
trying to grow the economy.
Speaker 1 (21:24):
Well, half the solution is understanding the problem and just
making that statement suggests to me that he's saying, why
hasn't this happened? And I also over the weekend heard
one of the finance ministers, or maybe the Finance Minister
say the same thing. This is a mantra, and I
think it has been catalyzed by artificial intelligence as well.
Speaker 5 (21:47):
If you think about the UK, you produced two.
Speaker 1 (21:51):
Of the most important AI companies in the world, Deep Mind,
which Alphabet now owns, an arm which off Bank primarily owns.
Speaker 5 (22:03):
By all rights, you should.
Speaker 1 (22:05):
Be developing a deep venture capital pool here, feeding startups
and nourishing them and deepening your listed equity markets. And
so I think that's what they're going to do, which
is fantastic. It's fantastic for the UK.
Speaker 11 (22:22):
Absolutely, they taught very ambitiously the UK leadership, but so
too do the European government's leadership, and Donald Trump, as
you say, is very passionate about deregulation. So yes, everybody's
on the same page, but it is a race. Is
the UK keeping up enough with the EU and the
US when it comes to deregulation for you to be
(22:43):
really confident, Kathy putting your money here.
Speaker 5 (22:46):
I think that.
Speaker 1 (22:49):
Europe is more tied up in regulatory nuts than the
UK is, and in fact, some of our companies Palenteer
has been very vocal, for example, and we think that's
one of the most important AI platform companies out there.
Alex Krp, the CEO, has said, I am pulling employees
out of Europe because you know, we're running into all
(23:12):
of these obstacles that could really harm us. You know,
being hit by a four percent fine four percent of
revenue and that's global revenue or seven percent of revenue
I heard recently.
Speaker 5 (23:26):
That's crazy.
Speaker 1 (23:27):
So I think Europe is going to be held back
until it gets its regulatory act together. I think the
UK is more more progressive from a regulatory point of view.
Speaker 5 (23:41):
And as I said, I really believe that half the solution.
The fact that your.
Speaker 1 (23:47):
Prime Minister, your Finance Minister in the same week are saying,
you know, we've got to figure this out. I think
that's a very good thing for the UK.
Speaker 2 (23:57):
This is Bloombergy Daybreak, your morning pond podcast on the
stories making news from Wall Street to Washington and beyond.
Speaker 3 (24:04):
Look for us on your podcast feed by six am
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Speaker 2 (24:10):
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Speaker 3 (24:25):
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Speaker 5 (24:44):
And I'm Nathan Hager.
Speaker 3 (24:45):
Join us again tomorrow morning for all the news you
need to start your day right here on Bloomberg Day
Ray
Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, Radio News.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Good morning, I'm Nathan Hager and I'm Karen Moscow. Here
are the stories we're following today.
Speaker 3 (00:15):
Karen, we begin with the Chinese artificial intelligence startup that
royal the global markets and led to the biggest one
day individual stock sell off in history. For the latest
on Deep Seek, let's bring in Bloomberg's John Tucker.
Speaker 4 (00:28):
John Nathan, the Deep Seek frenzy e raised five hundred
and eighty nine billion dollars from Invidious market cap, the
largest route in market history. The stock plunge seventeen percent.
The techa A Nastak tumbled nearly three percent. Jordan Klin
is managing director at Mazouoho Securities.
Speaker 3 (00:45):
It's a beginning of probably a consolidation phase and some
profit taking.
Speaker 5 (00:50):
For sure.
Speaker 4 (00:50):
Deep Seek is sparking fear over US tech dominance. Aaron
Kennon of Clear Harbor Asset Management sees it this way.
Speaker 6 (00:57):
We're seeing what I would call sort of the gradual
commoditizing of artificial intelligence.
Speaker 4 (01:02):
Deep Seek's low cost approach has reignited concerns that big
US companies have poured too much money into developing artificial
intelligence and Victoria Fernandez of Crossmarked Global Investment weigh in.
Speaker 5 (01:14):
Obviously, the tech game can turn on a dime.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
We've seen it over the last twenty four hours. I
do think that the US is probably still a little
bit of head.
Speaker 4 (01:23):
Deep Seek even drew praise from Nvidia. In Vidia set
in a statement that deep Sex model is an excellent
AI advancement, and deep See's progress suggests Chinese AI engineers
have found a way to work around US semiconductor export bands,
focusing on greater efficiency with limited resources. The latest AI
model of deep Seek, it's called Uri, is now at
(01:46):
the top of Apple's App Store rankings, and being in
the spotlight all of a sudden also does bring problems.
The companies had to limit signups due to large scale
malicious attacks on its services, and even this morning the
company reports degraded performance. In this morning, Nathan and Karen
in videos shares we should point out they're up five percent.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
All right, John, thank you well. The Deepseak sell off
on Wall Street also hit the world's elite, and we
get that story with Bloomberg's Gino Cervetti.
Speaker 7 (02:13):
The world's five hundred richest people lost to combined one
hundred eight billion on Monday. Billionaires whose fortunes are linked
to artificial intelligence were the biggest losers, and Vidio's CEO
Jensen Wang saw his fortune fall more than twenty billion dollars,
or a twenty percent drop. Oracle co founder Larry Ellison's
twenty two point six billion dollar loss was larger in
(02:35):
absolute terms, but represented twelve percent of his fortune. Dell's
Michael Dell lost at thirteen billion. Soaring valuations for so
called AI hyperscalers including Meta, Alphabet and Microsoft have generated
billions in wealth for their owners since open Ai unveiled
chat GPT in November of twenty twenty two. These companies
(02:55):
have spent huge sums to develop and run AI systems
by hoarding top of the line semiconductors and the energy
supplies needed to run them. Gina Cervetti Bloomberg Radio.
Speaker 5 (03:06):
All right, Gina, thank you.
Speaker 3 (03:07):
One of deep Seek's biggest competitors in the US could
be open Ai, and in a post on x the
company CEO Sam Aldman said deep seeks are one is
an impressive model. He added quote we will obviously deliver
much better models, and also it's legit invigorating to have
a new competitor end quote. Meanwhile, we caught up with
tech investor Cathy Wood to get her reaction about Deep Seek.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
I think what it's telling us is the cost of
innovation is collapsing, which it has been doing. I mean,
the cost of AI training is dropping before this seventy
five percent per year, the cost for inference eighty five
to ninety percent. I think it throws the weight more
towards inference chips from training chips, and so in Vidia's
(03:53):
highly exalted and deservedly so in the training chip space.
Speaker 3 (03:57):
Our Investments CEO Kathy Would made the comments in an
interview with Bloomberg earlier this morning in London.
Speaker 5 (04:03):
On Nathan.
Speaker 2 (04:03):
President Trump also weighing in on deep Seek.
Speaker 8 (04:06):
The release of Deepseek AI from a Chinese company should
be a wake up call for our industries that we
need to be laser focused on competing to win because
we have the greatest scientists in the world.
Speaker 2 (04:20):
And Trump also sees deep Seek's apparent breakthrough as good
because quote, you don't have to spend as much money.
Speaker 9 (04:26):
Thank care.
Speaker 3 (04:26):
And the President's also weighing in on the future of
another Chinese company, TikTok, he told reporters on air Force
one that Microsoft is in talks to acquire the hugely
popular app.
Speaker 8 (04:37):
I think somebody's going to buy it, pay a lot
of money, have a lot of jobs, keep a platform.
Speaker 1 (04:42):
Open, and having to be very secure.
Speaker 2 (04:44):
If I don't sign that, it closes.
Speaker 3 (04:47):
Following the President's comments, Microsoft declined to comment on the
company's involvement in any possible deal Well Nathan.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
President Trump is also laying out more details on his
tariff plans. At a speech to House Republicans at his
direlt golf club, the President said he plans to impose
duties on computer chips, pharmaceuticals, and metals to encourage foreign
production in the US.
Speaker 8 (05:09):
We want them to come back, and we don't want
to give them billions of dollars, like this ridiculous program
that Biden has give everybody billions of dollars. They already
have billions of dollars. They've got nothing but money.
Speaker 9 (05:18):
Joe.
Speaker 2 (05:19):
Later, the President told reporters he wants to enact across
the board tariffs that are quote much bigger than two
and a half percent. Trump was responding to a Financial
Times report that is newly confirmed Treasury Secretary Scott Besant
supports starting with a global two and a half percent
tariff rate, then raising it by the same amount each
month and Karen.
Speaker 3 (05:39):
President Trump also says he hopes House Republicans will pass
legislation to complete the border wall and step up deportation efforts,
while also extending his twenty seventeen tax cuts and boosting
oil and gas production. But the President's leaving the details
up to them.
Speaker 8 (05:53):
Whether it's one bill, two bills, I don't care. Let
these guys are going to work it out. They're going
to work it out one way or the other. But
the bottom line, the result is going to be the same.
We want to have all of those benefits, and we
want to keep people's taxes low and actually make them lower.
Speaker 3 (06:07):
Following President Trump's speech, one GOP lawmaker called it not
helpful that the President wouldn't be more specific. House Speaker
Mike Johnson says lawmakers will spend much of their two
day retreat behind closed doors to come up with a strategy.
Speaker 2 (06:20):
Well. Nathan returned now to the latest developments in the
Middle East. To Bloomberg News has learned Israeli Prime Minister
Benjamin nettan Yahoo, is planning to visit Washington next week
to meet with President Trump. The sit down would come
at a critical time, just weeks until the end of
the first phase of the pause in fighting in Gaza.
Skeptics have questioned whether the deal will hold through its
second phase, which could ultimately lead to a permanent end
(06:42):
to the war in Gaza. Time now for a look
at some of the other stories making news in New
York and around the world. And for that we're joined
by Bloomberg's Michael Barr. Michael, Good Morning, Good morning, Karen.
Speaker 9 (06:54):
After rain extinguished the last of the big Palisades fire
in Los Angeles, the city is now allowing everybody to
go back in to see what remains of their homes
for the first time since the Palisades fire started in
days after President Trump visited, Los Angeles, Mayor Karen Bass
announced all evacuees can return.
Speaker 4 (07:14):
Today is really about focusing on the recovery and getting
people back home.
Speaker 9 (07:21):
This woman says some residents advised there not to go
back because there's nothing left.
Speaker 5 (07:26):
It's a lot to lose everything that you've collected. I
think over the last you know, your adult life and
even your childhood.
Speaker 9 (07:33):
The neighborhoods are only open to residents from six am
to six pm because there is no power and some
areas require a police escort to get in. The Centers
for Disease Control and Prevention staff have been ordered to
cut off all communications with the World Health Organization. This
comes following an executive order from President Trump last week.
(07:54):
A CDC's deputy director sent the directive in an email,
which which also said CDC staff to sign to work
for the who are also being told not to come
into the office. Peter Mayberduke is Access to Medicine's director
at Public Citizen.
Speaker 6 (08:13):
It's sometimes underappreciated how deeply the United States is involved
in scientific collaboration internationally. There are more than seventy who
collaborating centers in the United States. The United States pulls out,
our new political competitors are waiting to fill that gap.
Speaker 9 (08:32):
Maybordew Can Other experts say the sudden stoppage is a
surprise and will set back work on investigating and trying
to stop outbreaks of certain viruses in Africa. The MTA
next month will begin releasing monthly review collection figures from
New York City's new congestion pricing toll as. The transit
agency plans to borrow five hundred million dollars of short
(08:55):
term debt that the tolling program will ultimately repay. ZIPATL,
the MTA's deputy Chief Financial officers said the authority will
release at its Finance Committee meeting that it is so
much collected so far in pricing revenue that the agency
collected in January. New York City's congestion pricing program is
(09:16):
the first in the nation in charges most motorist nine
dollars when they interparts in Manhattan Global News twenty four
hours a day and whenever you want it with Bloomberg
News Now, Michael Barn, this is Bloomberg, Karen.
Speaker 5 (09:27):
Sorry, Malcolm Barr, thank you.
Speaker 2 (09:33):
Time now for the Bloomberg Sports Update brought to you
if I try stayed out. Eagre's John stash Hour, John
good Nortek.
Speaker 10 (09:39):
Good morning, Karen. If you score one hundred and forty
three points in an NBA game, you're going to win
the next did that Saturday. It was the most points
they had scored in a non overtime game in forty
five years. Two nights later, again at the Garden, they
scored one hundred and forty three points, again beat Memphis
by thirty seven, seven nicks and double figures. Michael Bridges
the high mand with twenty eight nixt rolling four straight
(10:01):
wins sixteen to the last twenty two, and the Celtics
lost at home to Houston. Amen Thompson thirty three points
for the Rockets at a game when he shot out
the buzzer niterion, only a game behind Boston first second
place in the East. Cleveland's in first cans for thirty
seven and nine. They beat Detroit. The Nets lost at
Barkleys to Sacramento one ten to ninety six for Brooklyn.
That's seven losses in a row, twelve the last thirteen.
(10:23):
Miami won in double overtime without Jimmy Butler, suspended for
a third time. He walked out of practice after learning
he wasn't going to start the game. Certainly appears Butler's
gonna get traded before the deadline. Devils lost four to
at Philadelphia. Nothing like overtime in indoor partially simulated golf
Tiger Woods. His team beat Rory McElroy's team in TGL.
(10:45):
Aaron Glenn introduced as the new coach of the Jets.
Here was his message to his team to any players.
Speaker 2 (10:51):
That's here.
Speaker 9 (10:51):
Now put your seatbelts on and get ready for the ride.
Speaker 11 (10:55):
Put your seatbelt zone and get ready for the ride.
Speaker 9 (10:56):
Listen.
Speaker 7 (10:57):
There are going to be some challenges, but what challenges
this becomes opportunity gets opportunity.
Speaker 9 (11:02):
But here's what I do know. We're the freaking New
York jit so.
Speaker 10 (11:05):
Who haven't made the playoffs in fifteen years. Gland was
vague when asked about whether Aaron Rodgers will return. John
stashiell Er Bloomberg Sports, Kearny Meek.
Speaker 7 (11:15):
Coast to Coast on Bloomberg Radio nationwide on Serious Exam and.
Speaker 1 (11:20):
Around the world on Bloomberg dot Com and the Bloomberg
Business app.
Speaker 5 (11:24):
This is Bloomberg Daybreak.
Speaker 4 (11:26):
Good morning.
Speaker 3 (11:26):
I'm Nathan Hager. It was the biggest single day drop
for one American company and it is thanks to an
AI startup in China. Nvidia plunged seventeen percent yesterday, wiping
away five hundred and eighty nine billion dollars in market
value on concern about deep seek and it's in competitive
AI model with less advanced chips for more. Ark Investment
(11:46):
Management CEO Kathy Wood joined Bloomberg Stephen, Carol and Lizzie
burden in our London bureau. Let's listen to that conversation.
Speaker 5 (11:53):
Now, big question, you buying the dip.
Speaker 1 (11:56):
Well, we're fully invested and we're very comfortable being fully invaded.
Speaker 5 (12:01):
I think our confidence in the.
Speaker 1 (12:04):
Bull market broadening out has increased in the last few days.
So sure the megacaps we think will continue to do well.
Maybe in Vidia there are some questions about its exalted position.
Speaker 5 (12:20):
In the training chip market.
Speaker 1 (12:23):
We think inference is going to become more important with
these new reasoning models, and that is a more competitive
part of the market.
Speaker 5 (12:31):
But we think that what's happening here is the.
Speaker 1 (12:35):
Collapse in the cost of innovation.
Speaker 5 (12:39):
Deep seek is adding to it. It has been happening though.
Speaker 1 (12:41):
AI training costs have been dropping, led by Nvidia seventy
five percent per year, and AI inference costs have been
dropping eighty five to ninety percent per year. Deep seek
is just putting those very rapid declines into.
Speaker 5 (12:59):
A bit of overdrive here.
Speaker 12 (13:01):
So I wonder, if you see in Vidia falling much further,
is this an attractive price to be buying it?
Speaker 9 (13:05):
Do you think?
Speaker 5 (13:06):
Well, we own it in some of our portfolios. We
are not buying the dip yet.
Speaker 1 (13:14):
We do want to learn more about deep seek and
more about how the market or the demand for inference
chips might outpace those for training chips. We think the
whole area is going to be vibrant. We just think
there might be a little bit more of an adjustment
to this new reality.
Speaker 11 (13:36):
Where you say that what deep seek shows is kind
of that you can do more with less kap X.
Who do you think that's going to motivate in the
US most as Donald Trump is kind of saying, who's
going to be best.
Speaker 5 (13:48):
At doing more with less?
Speaker 1 (13:50):
Well, anyone using AI. We are focused on the productivity
gains for knowledge workers, which are going to be mass
that's the biggest impact of AI. But if we're looking
at sectors and spaces generally where this acceleration and innovation
is going to be meaningful, we think autonomous mobility, so robotaxis.
(14:15):
We think that's going to scale from essentially nothing now
to an eight to ten trillion dollar global opportunity including China.
But the sleeper here is healthcare, and we're seeing the
convergence of sequencing technologies, all kinds of sequencing technologies, artificial intelligence,
and then gene editing technologies like Crisper cast nine.
Speaker 5 (14:39):
That combination we believe is going to cure disease.
Speaker 1 (14:43):
It's already curing disease, sickle cell disease and beta thlocemia.
That's Chrisper therapeutics. But we think they're aiming now for
type one and type two diabetes. That would be a
category killer, you know, So think about that curing disease,
AI helping us decode the secrets of life, death health.
Speaker 12 (15:08):
Those are two areas where regulation plays a big part.
You've spoken about your optimism about deregulation under Donald Trump.
Do you think those are two areas we should expect
to see big deregulation about what technology can get involved in.
Speaker 1 (15:22):
Yes, I think in both safety first and I think
anyone moving into this market or these markets would agree
with that. So sensible regulation. But in the US, the
robotaxi field is regulated by fifty states. We think that
will change to one regulator, the federal government. After all,
(15:45):
transportation does cross states, so that makes sense. In the
healthcare realm, that is where the thicket of regulations has
really strangled the industry. And even more than the outright regulations,
it was the FTC, the Federal Trade Commission not allowing
(16:08):
mergers and acquisitions and therefore not allowing strategic buyers, big
biotech companies, not allowing them to buy the smaller companies,
so that we had price discovery. Now we're going to
see price discovery. How much are these companies that are
(16:30):
curing disease worth to these large strategic buyers now and
saying that I don't necessarily want our companies to be
taken out. We think they have miles to go, but
we do want price discovery back in the market.
Speaker 11 (16:45):
Where you talk about your excitement about autonomous vehicles. Of
course your biggest holding is Tesla, I think yes, And
we've callt elon Musk's first earnings call tomorrow since Trump's
returned to the White House January.
Speaker 5 (16:55):
Typically a call that's a look ahead. What do you
need to hear from Mosque?
Speaker 1 (17:00):
We need to hear a continuation of we're about to
launch our autonomous driving system. I mean, in effect, they've
launched it. I have a full self driving I know
it's not allowed here in the UK or in Europe.
But the improvements you feel safe, oh yes, yes, yes, yes,
(17:25):
way more really has broken through a lot of barriers.
I feel even though a Waymo vehicle is not safer
than a human driven vehicle, it.
Speaker 5 (17:37):
Knows its roads.
Speaker 1 (17:38):
It's narrow roads, meaning there are narrow territories.
Speaker 5 (17:43):
I think Tesla is going to go national. That's going
to be and we'll.
Speaker 1 (17:48):
Be able to do so because it has effectively seven.
Speaker 5 (17:51):
Million robots roaming the roads.
Speaker 1 (17:53):
Right now, I have two of them, a Y and
A three, and they're learning all about Connecticut and Florida
worlddes So it has a huge competitive advantage in terms
of proprietary data that nobody else has about the roads,
not only in the US, but in many places around
the world.
Speaker 12 (18:13):
Do you worry that Elon Musk is taking on too much?
If he's got his new job in the US government,
he's got sharp developments coming in Tesla, lots going on
with US other businesses as well. Is he spreading himself
too thin?
Speaker 1 (18:24):
If you look at the way Elon Musk behaves as
a CEO, he's a sharpshooter.
Speaker 5 (18:31):
He looks for pain points and he solves those right.
Speaker 1 (18:35):
And he's for example, right now, where was in twenty eighteen,
where was the biggest pain point? It was manufacturing the
Model three, Scaling the Model three. He slept famously on
the factory floor. He's not doing that anymore. He's not
on the factory floor now, it's all about autonomous. He
(18:57):
is the first what we would call CEO who really
understands the convergence among technologies taking place right now, really
catalyzed by artificial intelligence each one of his businesses. And
he also understands how critically important proprietary data is. And
(19:17):
think about this, Each of those companies is generating proprietary
data that no one else has.
Speaker 5 (19:24):
Well, maybe you should out to his plate. Should he
buy us TikTok Ah?
Speaker 2 (19:29):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (19:29):
I mean, I know there have been rumors about that
and about the government.
Speaker 5 (19:35):
Sharing half, and that's kind.
Speaker 1 (19:38):
Of anathema to the United States, you know, the government
getting involved like this.
Speaker 5 (19:43):
I'd be surprised if that happens.
Speaker 1 (19:44):
But I will also say the Trump administration is full
of surprises.
Speaker 12 (19:49):
It certainly is, and we're only a weekend to it.
You're here with us in London and we're delighted to
see you.
Speaker 5 (19:54):
What has you in London?
Speaker 12 (19:55):
What opportunities are you excited about when you come to
the UK? Is this a good place to put your money?
Speaker 1 (20:01):
Well, we have launched three funds. Our Europe has launched
three funds here.
Speaker 5 (20:07):
One is our.
Speaker 1 (20:07):
Flagship that is focused on all five innovation platforms, so robotics,
energy storage, artificial intelligence, multiomic sequencing and blockchain technology. So
that's the flagship AARKK a special one for Europe which
we do not have in the US because of overlaps
(20:29):
with other funds, but we have an AI and robotics
fund and that is ARKI. We think this convergence of
robotics and AI is going to lead to humanoid robots
and not just millions of them, but perhaps billions of
(20:52):
them longer term, which is going to be a key
productivity driver in both the home right now, we're not
paid for house cleaning, Let's get a robot. Let's pay
a robot to do it. And in the manufacturing plants
around the world.
Speaker 12 (21:11):
Kathy, the Prime Minister was in the building earlier. Kris Starmer,
you're exactly the sort of person that he wants to
meet because he wants investments going into those sorts of
businesses in this country. Have you spoken to him, what
sort of device would you be giving him if he's
trying to grow the economy.
Speaker 1 (21:24):
Well, half the solution is understanding the problem and just
making that statement suggests to me that he's saying, why
hasn't this happened? And I also over the weekend heard
one of the finance ministers, or maybe the Finance Minister
say the same thing. This is a mantra, and I
think it has been catalyzed by artificial intelligence as well.
Speaker 5 (21:47):
If you think about the UK, you produced two.
Speaker 1 (21:51):
Of the most important AI companies in the world, Deep Mind,
which Alphabet now owns, an arm which off Bank primarily owns.
Speaker 5 (22:03):
By all rights, you should.
Speaker 1 (22:05):
Be developing a deep venture capital pool here, feeding startups
and nourishing them and deepening your listed equity markets. And
so I think that's what they're going to do, which
is fantastic. It's fantastic for the UK.
Speaker 11 (22:22):
Absolutely, they taught very ambitiously the UK leadership, but so
too do the European government's leadership, and Donald Trump, as
you say, is very passionate about deregulation. So yes, everybody's
on the same page, but it is a race. Is
the UK keeping up enough with the EU and the
US when it comes to deregulation for you to be
(22:43):
really confident, Kathy putting your money here.
Speaker 5 (22:46):
I think that.
Speaker 1 (22:49):
Europe is more tied up in regulatory nuts than the
UK is, and in fact, some of our companies Palenteer
has been very vocal, for example, and we think that's
one of the most important AI platform companies out there.
Alex Krp, the CEO, has said, I am pulling employees
out of Europe because you know, we're running into all
(23:12):
of these obstacles that could really harm us. You know,
being hit by a four percent fine four percent of
revenue and that's global revenue or seven percent of revenue
I heard recently.
Speaker 5 (23:26):
That's crazy.
Speaker 1 (23:27):
So I think Europe is going to be held back
until it gets its regulatory act together. I think the
UK is more more progressive from a regulatory point of view.
Speaker 5 (23:41):
And as I said, I really believe that half the solution.
The fact that your.
Speaker 1 (23:47):
Prime Minister, your Finance Minister in the same week are saying,
you know, we've got to figure this out. I think
that's a very good thing for the UK.
Speaker 2 (23:57):
This is Bloombergy Daybreak, your morning pond podcast on the
stories making news from Wall Street to Washington and beyond.
Speaker 3 (24:04):
Look for us on your podcast feed by six am
Eastern each morning on Apple, Spotify or anywhere else you listen.
Speaker 2 (24:10):
You can also listen live each morning starting at five
am Wall Street Time on Bloomberg eleven three to zero
in New York, Bloomberg in ninety nine to one in Washington,
Bloomberg ninety two nine in Boston, and nationwide on serious
XM Channel one twenty one.
Speaker 3 (24:25):
Plus listen coast to coast on the Bloomberg Business app
now with Apple CarPlay and Android Atto interfaces.
Speaker 2 (24:31):
And don't forget to subscribe to Bloomberg News Now. It's
the latest news whenever you want it in five minutes
or less. Search Bloomberg News Now on your favorite podcast
platform to stay informed all day long. I'm Karen Moscow.
Speaker 5 (24:44):
And I'm Nathan Hager.
Speaker 3 (24:45):
Join us again tomorrow morning for all the news you
need to start your day right here on Bloomberg Day
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