February 28, 2025 • 49 mins
Plans to sign a critical minerals deal between the US and Ukraine were scrapped after Donald Trump’s meeting Friday with Volodymyr Zelenskiy quickly devolved into a fiery exchange over the Ukrainian leader’s doubts that the US president’s efforts to broker a deal with Russia would yield lasting peace.
Zelenskiy departed the White House following the public spat, and a planned signing ceremony and press conference were canceled.
US officials said the minerals deal - which Trump had cast as a necessary step to repay American support as he sought to broker a deal with Russia’s Vladimir Putin - was not signed before Zelenskiy’s departure. “He disrespected the United States of America in its cherished Oval Office.
He can come back when he is ready for Peace,” Trump said in a social media post shortly before Zelenskiy’s departure. The Ukrainian leader angered Trump and US Vice President JD Vance when he said he did not believe the planned deal would do enough to deter further Russian aggression. “Putin will never stop and will go further and further,” Zelenskiy said, adding that the Russian leader “hates Ukrainians” and wanted to destroy the country.
“We can do it, but it’s not enough,” he added of the deal.
On this special edition of Balance of Power, hosts Joe Mathieu and Kailey Leinz get instant reaction and analysis to the dramatic moment between Trump and Zelenskiy in the Oval Office with:
- Nick Wadhams, Bloomberg US National Security Team Lead
- Daniel Fried, Distinguished Fellow at the Atlantic Council/Former-US Ambassador to Poland/Former-Assistant Secretary of State for Europe
- Rick Davis, Partner at Stonecourt Capital and Bloomberg Politics Contributor & Jeanne Sheehan Zaino, Senior Democracy Fellow with the Center for the Study of the Presidency & Congress and Bloomberg Politics Contributor
- Kelly Grieco, Senior Fellow with the Stimson Center’s Reimagining US Grand Strategy Program
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
I'm not aligned with Putin, I'm not aligned with anybody.
I'm aligned with the United States of America and for
the good of the world.
Speaker 3 (00:15):
I'm aligned with the world. You want me to be tough.
I could be tougher than any human being you've ever seen.
I'd be so tough, But you're never going to get
a deal that way.
Speaker 4 (00:23):
Do you have nice ocean and don't feel now, but
you will feel it.
Speaker 3 (00:29):
Bless You don't know that. I'm blessed, you're I'm blessed.
You don't know.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Don't tell us what we're gonna feel. We're trying to
solve a problem. Don't tell us what we're going to feel.
I'm not telling you because you're in no position to
dictate that. Remember this, you're in no position to dictate
what we're going to feel. You're not in a good position.
You don't have the cards right now with us. You
start having right now. You don't know your playing car.
(00:55):
You're gambling with the lives and millions of people. You're
gambling with world two War three. Your country is in
big trouble.
Speaker 3 (01:02):
I know you're not winning. Oh you're not winning.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
This, you have a damn good chance of coming out
okay because of bread.
Speaker 5 (01:09):
All right, there you have President Trump, President Zelenski, Vice
President J. D Vance and others in a very crowded
Oval Office and what was a bilateral meeting that turned
into an argument. Just bringing that to you as it's
coming into our newsroom right now. They jumped in about
halfway through the meeting, so we might be able to
get you some other comments from the beginning of that conversation.
(01:31):
As reporters are escorted outside of the Oval Office, Donald
Trump to Vladimir Zelensky, you either make a deal or
we are out, he said, telling Zelensky he has to
be thankful, and he said it's going to be very
hard to do business like this. As President Zelenski tried
to make his case to jd Vance, Donald Trump and others,
things got very chippy in the middle of that meeting.
(01:53):
And we want to assemble our political panel. They were
listening along with us here our signature panel together. Rick Davis,
Republicans strategist partner at Stone Court Capital, and Genie Shanzano,
of course, our democratic analyst and political science professor at
Iona University. Rick, I'm not sure I've ever heard anything
like that come out of a meeting of world leaders
in the Oval Office. Typically an argument like that would
(02:14):
be behind closed doors. It just played out for everyone
to see. Is this relationship broken? Where do we go
from here?
Speaker 6 (02:20):
Yeah, Joe, I'm not sure you would even say that
this kind of argument ever happens behind closed doors. I mean,
these kinds of state to state discussions are usually finely tuned,
they're prepped, They have lots of staff involved making sure
that the time that the two principles spend together is
well orchestrated and that the outcome is totally predetermined. The
(02:42):
idea that you would put these two folks in the
Oval Office with a bunch of reporters to hash it
out is something I don't think I've ever seen in
five decades of Washington state craft. So I think what
we just witnessed was something that you know, look, I mean,
everybody Knewald Trump kind of you know, goes his own way,
(03:04):
but the idea that this is either good for America,
good for Ukraine, or good for the world is nuts.
This was an incredible failure of diplomacy. And regardless of
what happens today, maybe they get a deal and they
saw it, you know, showing this makes both countries look weak.
Speaker 5 (03:22):
Wow, Genie, give me your take on this. Was it
a conversation? A lot of people stressed out went off
the rails when they heard the wrong words from Voladimir Zelensky.
He wasn't thankful enough? Or was this a setup? Did
Donald Trump and Jade Vance plan to do this with
the cameras in the room?
Speaker 3 (03:40):
Yeah?
Speaker 7 (03:40):
I mean, you know, one of the big questions hanging
over this meeting, in addition to security guarantees, which we
could probably forget that question for right now, was can
we work together? You know, Vladimir Zelenski trying to test
out does Donald Trump, you know, like me enough that
we can make this happen? And that kind of exchange
is just a reminder and interpersonal relationships matter an awful
(04:04):
lot in these things, So that seems to be very clear.
There is not a lot of love lost there. And
of course this is quite embarrassing from the perspective of
the United States. He is talking to our ally in
this war. He is talking to a country invaded by Putin.
In twenty fourteen, seven million Ukrainians have fled their homeland.
(04:29):
We are talking of hundreds of thousands of innocent people
now dead, four millions still deplaced, and he is being
told from the Vice President and the President of the
United States, heretofore their allies that you are not being
thankful enough to us as you sit here. And so
it is quite an embarrassing spectacle. It does look made
(04:51):
for TV from my perspective. You wouldn't believe it unless
you saw it firsthand, that this was the conversation that
the are having, And I can't imagine what it looks
like behind the scenes. Is this is what they're displaying?
Speaker 5 (05:04):
Oh my god? Yeah, Well, what do you think, Rick?
Did this feel spontaneous? And does this torpedo the bilateral
news conference they had planned for ten minutes from now?
Speaker 6 (05:16):
You know, it's hard to tell what they're going to
do to put this back together, you know, behind closed
doors now, it's going to have to take a lot
of work, because I think both principals are going back
to their neutral corners ready to come out throwing punches again. Look,
I mean, Donald Trump, I think started out this session
pretty constructively, and I must admit, I mean the interjections
(05:39):
by Vice President Vance really stoked a lot of anger
in the room and was really counterproductive, I thought, and
even Donald Trump at the end tried to bring it
back and saying, look, we just wanted to stop the
killing and get a deal. And the elements of a
deal are there, right. I mean, he's had great meetings
this week with you know, leaders of Europe in France
(06:04):
and Great Britain, all of whom have guaranteed certain security
measures that they would do in case of a ceasefire
or a end of the war. And I mean, like
he was walking in the President of the United States
into kind of a very positive environment where he could,
you know, I didn't have to commit to putting troops
on the ground, but you know, could obviously continue to
(06:24):
say we're going to supply you with materials and weapons
because you're going to pay for them. And that kind
of relationship is traditional for US, I mean, and it's
sustainable over time. It's a real mature relationship between US
and one of its allies and supporters, Ukraine. So everyone
thought this was going to be sort of the beginning
of a real mature relationship, one that's post combat conflict.
(06:51):
And and my impression was that's not something JD. Van's
wanted to see happen today and set out to try
and derail it there in front of the American public.
Speaker 5 (07:03):
Just about a minute or two he left here Jeanie,
Donald Trump invoked Vladimir Putin's talked about what they had
gone through, how much they went through together during the
Russia investigation. He started doing the Russia, Russia, Russia thing.
He got very angry looking as he was referring to this.
He also revealed that he just met again recently with
Vladimir Putin. Do you think the Russian president had a
(07:26):
sense of what this meeting was going to be like?
Speaker 7 (07:29):
You know, it's hard to know. We thought this was
a win for Vladimir Zelensky that he got to Donald
Trump personally, face to face first. And you know, I
think there is going to be some criticism all around,
obviously starting with jd Vance, but including Vladimir Zelensky. The
reality is Ukraine unfortunately does not have a lot of
(07:51):
cards to play. And those were the exact words that
Donald Trump used. I'm not sure he needed to say
it that viscerally, but that's what he said, and he's right.
That's why Zelenski's task today was to do what they
told Queen Victoria. Close your eyes and think of England.
Close your eyes and think of Ukraine. And the reality
is he couldn't get there in the face of JD
(08:14):
Vance's taunting, and so I think he's going to bear
some criticism on this as well, because the reality is
Ukraine needs the support of the United States if they
are going to sisto.
Speaker 5 (08:25):
Our panel's going to stay with us, GD Shanzano and
Rick Davis. We're going to try to unpack what the
heck just happened in the Oval Office. So stay with
us right here on Bloomberg.
Speaker 1 (08:33):
You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast. Catch
us live weekdays at noon and five pm Eastern on
Apple Cockway and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business app.
You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our
flagship New York station. Just say Alexa play Bloomberg eleven thirty.
Speaker 5 (08:53):
We're going to have a conversation ahead with former Ambassador
Daniel Freed. First, we want to talk with Nick Wadams,
who leads our national security coverage here in Washington, DC. Nick,
have you ever seen anything like this before?
Speaker 3 (09:06):
No, I have not.
Speaker 8 (09:07):
That was one of the most extraordinary bits of television
I've ever seen. Obviously, the President there getting extremely angry,
and then Vice President jd Vance essentially asking Zelenski to
grovel and to express thanks to the US, which of
course he has done many times before for the weaponry
and the aid that the US has provided. So an
(09:29):
extraordinary moment.
Speaker 9 (09:32):
Well, certainly so. And I guess the question, Nick, is now,
what moments come after this? Things have moved behind closed doors.
But initially there was supposed to be an agreement signed
in front of the press in the East Room of
the White House that was supposed to be scheduled to
happen at this hour. Is there any indication of whether
that will still happen.
Speaker 8 (09:49):
Well, we are trying to figure that out. I mean,
the big question here is does that go ahead or
are we at an impasse where essentially the relationship is
totally broken. I mean, been clear for some time that
President Trump was not excited about Volodimir Zelenski. He did
at one point call him a dictator. Though then in
the last day or two we'd had a turn where
(10:09):
it felt like the situation was warming up a little bit,
things were getting better. They thought they had a deal
that served Ukraine's interests, essentially punted a lot of questions
until later, but gave President Trump a document to show
his supporters to say, look, we are going to get
something out of this.
Speaker 3 (10:27):
Now.
Speaker 8 (10:27):
Seems very unlikely to me that the two sides, without
some further intervention, would be willing to sit down and
actually put pen to paper, put their signatures on that document.
Then the whole thing may end up in total collapse.
But we'll just have to see. In the next hour
or so, they're also supposed to have a press conference,
and of course it's not going to happen, so great question.
Speaker 5 (10:47):
We will bring it to our viewers and listeners if
it does. Nick. That was scheduled to begin seven minutes ago,
but obviously things are running late. Before things started getting angry,
Donald Trump said to Voladimir Zelenski, you either make a
deal or we are out. You take him at his word.
Speaker 8 (11:05):
Yes, I would take him at his word on that.
I mean, you know, the thing that's so interesting is
this critical minerals deal. When you get down to it
was essentially an agreement to have talks about talks at
a later time, So there wasn't really anything in it
that actually committed either side to much of anything. And indeed,
there was some speculation that this was basically something that
(11:26):
Ukraine and some pro Ukraine lawmakers and others in the
United States could put in front of President Trump and say, listen,
we got this from them. Now we can get down
to the real business of actually having real negotiations, both
over this deal but over a peace agreement later on.
So if President Trump essentially backs out and throws himself
in with the Russian side, or abandons Ukraine and lets
(11:48):
Russia run roughshot over Ukrainian territory, I mean, this is
a critical moment. This is just completely unprecedented. So again,
we should have more clarity in the next couple of
hours and also in the coming days. But what you
really saw here was just the eruption of the hostility.
We had known that President Trump felt about Ukraine from
some time, but had been restrained from exhibiting. Now it
(12:10):
feels like those shackles are basically off.
Speaker 9 (12:14):
All right, Bloomberg's Nick Wadams, thank you so much with
reaction to the footage We've all just seen and watching
it alongside us now here in our Washington, d C.
Studio is Ambassador Daniel Freed, Distinguished Fellow at the Atlantic Council,
also former US Ambassador to Poland and former Assistant Secretary
of State for Europe here with Us on Bloomberg TV
and Radio. So obviously we all saw, we all heard
(12:36):
the exchange that happened between these three, ambassador What do
you make of it?
Speaker 10 (12:43):
Take a step back.
Speaker 11 (12:45):
The US has an interest in Ukraine succeeding. Our problems
in the world get better if Ukraine survives and prospers,
and if Russia wins, our problems get worse. It's been
quite a week. The Trump plan for Ukraine, as we
understand it, could work and was getting some traction ceasefire
(13:06):
in place, British and French led force in Ukraine, maybe
with American backup, a minerals deal with Ukraine that gives
President Trump the ability to say, yeah, I've got a
stake in this that could come together, and now this
now this blow up. Let's hope, best case that they
pull it together. You know, President Trump loves drama for TV.
(13:32):
Let's hope that they can pull it together. Sign the
minerals deal, move forward, because the US, the Trump administration
could succeed and Trump could get what he wants, which
is to push back on Putin, be seen as doing so,
and be seen as a peacemaker. Now I realize that
this may be completely fanciful if in the next few
(13:55):
hours this all blows up.
Speaker 10 (13:56):
I get that.
Speaker 11 (13:58):
But my job for forty years Foreign Service officer is
to try to look at the way forward, and there
is a way forward, which is why my frustration is
that the administration keeps stepping on its own policy. This
fight in the Oval was not necessary, especially because Zelenski
(14:19):
is actually working accord according to Trump's plan. He's ready
to sign the deal. I suspect he's ready to accept
the seize fire if he gets enough security. Trump could
win if he has the discipline to see it through.
Speaker 5 (14:34):
You've been in many rooms with world leaders for very
sensitive negotiations. I'm guessing you two have never seen anything
quite like that. Did it feel authentic, did it feel
spontaneous or was there some show business with cameras and
microphones in the room today.
Speaker 11 (14:49):
That's a good question. I watched it carefully. I think
Vice President Vance was provoking Zelenski. I think Zelenski could
have answered it differently. He was trying to explain the details.
That's not what I would have done or advised him
to do. But then you had the president and the
(15:11):
Vice president basically bullying a democratic leader who is fighting
for his freedom and ours. So I don't see what
American interest is is advanced by having this fight.
Speaker 10 (15:26):
Was it deliberate? Was it an ambush?
Speaker 11 (15:30):
It's possible, But the larger question remains, what do we
get out of having a fight? I know what Putin gets.
What do we get? We get a lot. If Ukraine succeeds,
and especially if we get the British and French to
carry the heavy load of the security burden, that's quite
a success for trumpet success for America. I'm all on board,
(15:53):
but the administration has to follow its own plan and
not get distracted by this stuff.
Speaker 9 (15:59):
Well, on your point, ambassador about it being in US
interest to see Ukraine succeed to the extent it can,
it did seem. We saw President Selensky trying to make
that point when he suggested, yes, I know you're here
on the other side of the Atlantic, but you could
ultimately feel this. President Trump pushed back on them, saying,
you know, don't tell us what to feel. But also
then later suggested Zelensky, right now is toying with World
(16:21):
War three, which presumably would involve the US, and somehow
we aren't immune to conflicts like that, as we saw
with the prior World War.
Speaker 10 (16:28):
So which is it? Yeah, President Trump was just wrong
about that. We thought we.
Speaker 11 (16:35):
Were safe behind two oceans and then Pearl Harbor, right,
we figured it out fast. We can't be the lonely
bastion of freedom in the world. That's what Franklin Roosevelt,
Harry Truman, and Ronald Reagan taught us. And that's the
right lesson and it is the Trump administration in its
(16:58):
more wise moments, understood that we're in a period of
great power rivalry and we have adversaries Russia, China, Iran.
So yeah, let's work with our friends to contend with
our adversaries. And Ukraine is our friend. Maybe a little
difficult sometime, but still.
Speaker 9 (17:15):
But the President today didn't seem to characterize Russia as
an adversary necessarily. When he was asked do you feel
in the middle, he said, I'm for both Ukraine and Russia.
Speaker 10 (17:23):
How did you interpret that?
Speaker 11 (17:24):
Well, that's not the language I would have used, and
I don't think our position at the UN was very
good on Monday where we supported a week resolution. But
if that's the way President Trump wants to play it, okay,
play it that way, but then land the deal, and
the deal has to provide for Ukraine's security because if
(17:45):
it doesn't, then we've been suckered by the Russians and diplomacy.
Speaker 10 (17:50):
Don't be the sucker.
Speaker 5 (17:52):
We love talking with practitioners. You're a career diplomat, bring
us into the room and maybe not an extent dream
like this, But when a meeting devolves, the reporters have left.
Who is in the diplomatic delegation? Who gets their arms
around this? Do people go to separate rooms? What do
you do now? As a diplomat when the meeting just
blew up in your face?
Speaker 11 (18:14):
You advise your principle on how to fix it? What
do you do to set it right? And you and
what do you do in terms of what's possible for
you politically? And someone like me is supposed to find
a way forward? Sosident. If I were advising President Trump,
(18:34):
I would say, look, you made your point. Now tell
Zelensky make light of it. Tells Zelensky we need a deal.
Let's show people after we've pushed back that we can
do that.
Speaker 5 (18:43):
But you get the boss alone in a room. Right now,
everyone goes cool off for a minute.
Speaker 11 (18:47):
Now, the national security this is the job for the
National Security Advisory And I think Mike Walls.
Speaker 10 (18:54):
Is a serious person.
Speaker 5 (18:55):
He was right in there.
Speaker 10 (18:56):
That's right now.
Speaker 11 (18:57):
I also think that Zelensky, he should Zelenski's people should
figure out a way for him to approach Trump and
make clear that yeah, he's grateful to the United States,
and yeah, he appreciates Trump's role in pushing things forward.
Say that it's true enough and it will help. So
(19:18):
you at moments like this, the pros scramble, don't wring
your hands, don't complain, figure out what you're going to do,
figure out the way forward, and do it fast.
Speaker 5 (19:28):
Do They will have this news conference Kaling.
Speaker 9 (19:30):
Well, I was just about to ask, ambassador, do you
have confidence that they are able to do that? And
we'll see these two having corrected or taken the break
that they need, facing the press once again, worse afternoons.
Speaker 11 (19:41):
I'm in an impossible position because we're going to know
just how long I am. I would say this because
it's Donald Trump who loves drama. And twists and turns.
He could easily decide to pull it back. He could
now I'm not saying he will, but I don't think
all is necessarily lost.
Speaker 10 (20:03):
Right.
Speaker 11 (20:03):
He loves TV drama and he's got one going. But
the drama. You don't milk that drama. If you continue
the fight, you get more attention and put yourself maybe
in a stronger tactical tactical position, if you can come
out and say, yeah, that.
Speaker 10 (20:19):
Was rough, but we've agreed.
Speaker 11 (20:22):
So if I were advising the President, I would say, Okay,
you pushed hard.
Speaker 10 (20:29):
Now lands Land a deal.
Speaker 5 (20:32):
If you're Donald Trump, you can take credit for saving
this day, can't you?
Speaker 10 (20:37):
If things go right, that would be my advice.
Speaker 11 (20:41):
Again, they're not going to ask me, but somebody like
me is supposed to advise the president on how to
succeed on his term.
Speaker 9 (20:48):
Ambassador, I apologize for interrupting, but we just got a
statement from the President which reads as follows. It's amazing
what comes out through emotion. And I have determined that
President Zelensky is not ready for peace if America is involved,
because he feels our involvement gives him a big advantage
in negotiations. I don't want advantage. I want peace. He
goes on to say he disrespected the United States of
(21:11):
America in its cherished Oval office. He can come back
when he is ready for peace.
Speaker 5 (21:17):
Pretty remarkable here.
Speaker 11 (21:18):
Well, that's unfortunate, especially because we showed no similar toughness
in New York on Monday with a week un resolution.
Not good and I don't see what American interest is
advanced thereby.
Speaker 5 (21:35):
If there was one voice we could have at the
table today, it would be Daniel Freed, Ambassador, thank you
so much for being with us at this critical moment
in Washington. I'm Joe Matthew alongside Kaylee Lines. Will have
much more ahead with our signature panel. This is Bloomberg.
Speaker 1 (21:50):
You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast. Catch
us live weekdays at noon and five pm. E's durn
On Apple Cockley and Android Otto with the Bloomberg Business Up.
Listen on demand wherever you get your podcasts, or watch
us live on YouTube.
Speaker 9 (22:07):
Bloomberg just confirming that the joint press conference that was
scheduled to be this afternoon between President Trump and Ukrainian
President Vladimir Zelensky is canceled after an argument in the
Oval Office. Today was originally supposed to be about signing
a minerals deal, and no sign that is actually going
to take place. As President Trump has taken to true
Social saying he is determined that Zelensky is not ready
(22:30):
for peace if America is involved. He went on to
say he disrespected the United States of America and its
cherished Oval Office. He can come back when he's ready
for peace.
Speaker 5 (22:41):
Yeah, so we've got a problem. This was a meeting
that devolved into a bit of a shouting match. Voices
were raised, an argument took place, and we brought you
into the Oval Office for this conversation. It was really
once Vice President JD. Vance started to address and challenge vladimir'
Elenski about not being thankful enough that things started to
get chippy. By the time Well Trump was speaking, he
(23:01):
was genuinely angry and threatening to pull out of all
of these talks. Now you mentioned his post on truth Social.
It's possible that Zelenski will talk to reporters in the
driveway because we're not getting a East room news conference now.
If that happens, we'll bring you into the driveway to
hear more from him. His vehicle is still parked in
front of the entrance to the West wing, and we've
(23:23):
got our panel with us. Kayleie, Rick Davis and Genie
Shanzano have been listening and watching along with us. We
want to bring you into the oval before we get
their take on what just happened for an unprecedented moment
in politics, Let's watch and listen.
Speaker 3 (23:35):
Can I ask you? Sure?
Speaker 5 (23:37):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (23:38):
Yeah, okay.
Speaker 4 (23:39):
So he occupied it our parts, big parts of Ukraine,
parts of East and Crimea. So he occupied it on
twenty fourteen. So during a lot of years. So I'm
not speaking about Jus Biden, but those time was Obama,
(24:00):
President Obama, then President Trump, then President Biden, now the
President Trump and God bless now President Trump will stop him.
But during twenty fifteen, nobody stopped him. He just occupied
and took He killed people. You know what the contact
twenty fifteen.
Speaker 3 (24:16):
Twenty.
Speaker 4 (24:18):
Four yea, so he kills not here, yeah, by the
second right, yes, But during twenty fourteen till twenty twenty two,
what the situation the same that people have been dying
on the contact line. Nobody stopped him. You know that
we had conversations with him a lot of conversations.
Speaker 3 (24:37):
My belateral conversation.
Speaker 4 (24:39):
And we signed with him, me like a new president
in twenty nineteen, I signed with him the deal I
signed with him. Mccron and mayor kill we signed ceasefire, ceasefire.
All of them told me that he will never go.
We signed him with guest contract quantrum. Yes, but after
(25:01):
that he broken this is fire. He killed a people
and he didn't exchange prisoners. We signed the exchange.
Speaker 3 (25:09):
Of prisoners, but he didn't do it. What kind of
diplomacy gg us speaking about? What? What do you what
do you mean?
Speaker 12 (25:18):
I'm talking about the kind of diplomacy that's going to
end the destruction of your country. But mister President, mister president,
with respect, I think it's disrespectful for you to come
into the Oval Office to try to litigate this in
front of the American media. Right now, you guys are
going around and forcing conscripts to the front lines because
you have manpower problems. You should be thanking the president
for trying to bring it into this conflict.
Speaker 4 (25:39):
Into Ukraine that you say, what problems we have? I
have been to come one.
Speaker 12 (25:43):
I've actually I've actually watched and seen the stories and
I know what happens is you bring people, you bring them.
Speaker 3 (25:50):
On a propaganda tour.
Speaker 12 (25:51):
Mister President, are do you disagree that you've had problems
bringing people in your military have? And do you think
that it's respectful to come to the over office of
the United States of America and attack the administration that
is trying to trying to prevent the destruction of your country?
Speaker 3 (26:06):
A lot of questions. Let's start from the beginning. Sure,
first to all.
Speaker 4 (26:10):
During the war, everybody has problems, even you. But you
have nice ocean and don't feel now, but you will feel.
Speaker 3 (26:17):
It in the future. God bless you. Don't know that.
I'm blessed. You're un blessed. You're not.
Speaker 2 (26:23):
Don't tell us what we're going to feel. We're trying
to solve a problem. Don't tell us what we're going
to feel. I'm not telling you because you're in no
position to dictate that. Remember this, you're in no position
to dictate what we're going to feel.
Speaker 3 (26:37):
We're going to feel very good, feel influenced.
Speaker 2 (26:39):
We're going to feel very good and very strong, will
feel influenced. You're right now not in a very good position.
You've allowed you to be in a very bad position.
That happens to be right about.
Speaker 3 (26:49):
From the very beginning of the war, not in a
good position. You don't have the cards right now with us.
Speaker 2 (26:55):
You start having right now, you pays. You're gambling with
lives and millions of people.
Speaker 3 (27:03):
You're gambling with world War three. You're gambling with World
War three.
Speaker 2 (27:08):
And what you're doing is very disrespectful to the country.
This country. It's back to you far more than a
lot of people said they should have.
Speaker 12 (27:18):
Have you said thank you once this entire meeting. No,
in this entire meeting, you said thank you. You went
to Pennsylvania and campaigned for the opposition in October, offers
some words of appreciation for the United States of America
and the president who's trying to save your country.
Speaker 4 (27:35):
Please, you're seeing that if you will speak were loudly
about the war.
Speaker 2 (27:40):
He's not speaking loudly. He's not speaking loudly. Your country
is in big trouble. No, No, you've done a lot of talking.
Your country is in big trouble. I know you're not winning.
You're not winning this. You have a damn good chance
of coming out okay, because.
Speaker 3 (27:55):
Of the president. Were staying Yawa country.
Speaker 4 (27:57):
Staying strong from the very beginning of the war, we've
been alone, and we are thankful.
Speaker 3 (28:02):
I said, thanks, you haven't been keping it. You haven't
been alone.
Speaker 2 (28:05):
We gave you, through this stupid president, three hundred and
fifty billion dollars.
Speaker 3 (28:10):
We gave your military equipment. You and you men are brave,
but they had to use our military one.
Speaker 2 (28:16):
If you didn't have our military equipment, If you didn't
have our military equipment, this war would have been over
in two weeks.
Speaker 4 (28:24):
In three days, I heard it from Puttin in three days.
This is how maybe less in two weeks. Of course, yes, it's.
Speaker 2 (28:30):
Going to be a very hard thing to do business
like this.
Speaker 13 (28:32):
I'm gonna tell you they thank you, I said, except
that they're accept the American except that there are disagreements,
and let's go litigate those disagreements rather than trying to
fight it out in.
Speaker 12 (28:43):
The American media when you're wrong. We know that you're wrong.
Speaker 2 (28:47):
But you see, I think it's good for the American
people to see what's going on. I think it's very important.
That's why I kept this going so long. You have
to be thankful. You don't have the cards. You're buried there.
You're people that died. You're running low on soldiers. Listen,
you're running low on soldiers. It would be a damn
good thing. And then then you tell us I don't
(29:09):
want to cease fire. I don't want to cease fire.
I want to go and I wanted this.
Speaker 3 (29:13):
Look, if you.
Speaker 2 (29:15):
Could get a ceasefire right now, I tell you you
take it. So the bullets stopped flying and your mint
stuff courting killed.
Speaker 3 (29:20):
We want to stop the war. But you're saying you
don't want to see you.
Speaker 2 (29:24):
I want to see guarantee because you get a ceasefire
faster than any.
Speaker 3 (29:27):
Greet core people about fire. What they see.
Speaker 2 (29:30):
That wasn't with me, That wasn't with me. That was
with a guy named Biden, who was not a smart person.
Speaker 3 (29:38):
That was your That was with Oba. Excuse me.
Speaker 2 (29:41):
That was with Obama, who gave you sheets and I
gave you javelins. I gave you the javelins to take
out all those tanks. Obama gave you sheets. In fact,
the statement is Obama gave sheets and Trump gave javelins.
You got to be more thankful, because let me tell
you, you don't have the cards. With us, you have the cards,
(30:03):
but without us, you don't have any cards.
Speaker 9 (30:07):
And there you have it. The dispute in the Oval
Office between President Trump, Vice President JD Vance, and Ukrainian
President vladimir's Lensky, which has now resulted in the cancellation
of a press conference that was supposed to be held
at this hour with Trump and Zelensky, and Donald Trump
saying on true social that Zelensky can return when he
is ready for peace. We are watching outside the White
(30:29):
House to see if the Ukrainian president does indeed depart
and whether or not he speaks to press in the
aftermath of this, given that the scheduled time at which
he could have done so has now been called off.
Speaker 2 (30:39):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (30:39):
We should note, by the way, that this is an
incredibly busy day at the White House. There are scores
of reporters there who also came from Europe, came from Ukraine.
Not to mention, of course, the American reporters who were
there for a very important day that we expected to
see the signing of a minerals deal between the US
and Ukraine. The briefing room is packed, The Oval Office
was packed with those selected to be part of the
(31:00):
pool today, but there will be a throng of reporters.
I believe Josh Wingrove described it as a zoo when
he got there earlier this morning. They're in the driveway,
as you can see now on Bloomberg TV and on YouTube,
the vehicle that brought Vladimir Zelenski to the White Houses
waiting for him just outside the West Wing entrance. And
if we were able to pull out a bit, you'd
see the sticks, as they call it, the stakeout position,
(31:21):
where microphones and cameras are waiting for him. So, Kaylee,
he may well take some questions. We'll find out together.
Speaker 9 (31:26):
Indeed, and while we wait to find out, we turned
back to our signature political panel who was with us today,
Rick Davis and Jeanie Schanzy know both Bloomberg Politics contributors. Rick,
given what we all just listened to again, the tone,
the language that these three were using with each other
in the Oval Office of all places, are you surprised
that things cannot move forward in the aftermath, or at
(31:47):
least don't seem to be moving forward now?
Speaker 6 (31:50):
Yeah, you would think that they'd set aside the emotion
that the statement referred to from the White House and
regroup with their teams. I can imagine National Security Advisor
Walls is in conversations with the President, Vice President and
his team trying to make something out of this. You
(32:11):
don't get these opportunities very often to have something go
forward toward a constructive piece agreement like today was planned
to be, and allow something like the spectacle and the
Oval Office to derail it. But the statement is speaks
for itself. It sounds like there's no further progress that
(32:32):
will be had today and these teams will have to
reset and find a new avenue toward diplomacy. So this
is not followed along the lines of any diplomatic effort.
I've ever seen lots of momentum coming into today with
the meetings earlier this week with the Prime Minister of
the UK and the President of France, and you would
(32:53):
have thought that this would have resulted in a very positive,
constructive outcome. Instead have high fives in the Kremlin. This
is exactly what they would have wanted to see happen,
and it's going to be a big step backwards in
stopping the fight that Donald Trump claims is his number
one priority, stop the bloodshed.
Speaker 5 (33:15):
High fives in the Kremlin. Genie, would it be smart
politically for Zelenski to come out of that west wing
entrance we're looking at right now, and take questions from reporters,
try to make this case or is he dig the
hole deeper for Ukraine.
Speaker 7 (33:32):
You know, it is such a tough call for Zelensky.
He had one big job to do, which was to
try to mend a here to for difficult relationship with
Donald Trump today. And the clip you played is so
important because you can hear him at the offset of
that trying, you know, fairly innocently to explain to JD.
(33:53):
Vance and the President the history he is a board
leader for three years, the history of his going back
to twenty fourteen, the two Minsk Agreement signed that Vladimir
Putin after invading his country did not live up to,
and trying to explain to them why they cannot trust
or he cannot trust Putin to live up to an
agreement now, and then you hear JD. Vance come in
(34:16):
like a quite frankly, like he was talking to one
of his young children or something, berating Zelenski. And then
of course Donald Trump jumped right into that. And you
know the reality is is that this is going to
be very very tough to repair. It doesn't mean we
won't get that rare earth mineral deal, but this goes
so far beyond that. And I think one thing to
(34:39):
watch for here is can Marco Rubio and Waltz, who
are more interventionist in the traditional sense, walk Donald Trump
off the ledge here and walk this back and get
this deal back on track. I don't know if it's possible,
but there is a big division in this administration between
those who are non interventionists like JD. Vansho, by the way,
(35:01):
in the Senate did not support aid for Ukraine, and
those like Rubio and Waltz. And we have to see
if they can bring Donald Trump back to the idea
that a deal on the rare mineral or earth minerals
would be give us a leg up economically, and then
that would sort of, you know, lay the groundwork for
them to move forward with a potentially relationship to be
(35:22):
built on with Zelensky. But very very tough for Zolensky,
three years at war, so many people dead, in displaced,
to have to listen to the Vice president demanding that
he be more express more gratitude and quite frankly the ahistorical,
you know, renditions of what has happened in his own country, well.
Speaker 9 (35:45):
To Genie's point, Rick be as we consider the cast
of characters here beyond just the President and Vice president,
Secretary of State Marco Rubio, national Security Advisor Mike Waltz,
those who are more hawkish in Congress, who have long
supported Ukraine. I'm thinking here, Senators Lindsay Graham and others.
Do you expect a collective voice here could come to
check the impulses of the President and Vice president on
(36:07):
this one, or is it ultimately what they say that
will go because President Trump is suggesting he's communicating directly
with Vladimir Putin.
Speaker 6 (36:15):
Yeah, I think that's a very good question, Kaylee. What
the net effect is going to be with the President's
leaders in Republican Party who are, as you describe them,
more hawkish toward the Kremlin. So we've not seen much
evidence of that, although many of them did come out
and vocally reinforced the fact that when the President called
(36:39):
Zelensky a dictator, they pushed back on that and made
it clear that Vladimir Putin's the dictator. So that being said,
they have not been. Congress has not played even a
marginal role in the peace process, if you want to
call it that. After today, and so I can't imagine
(37:01):
anybody's going to want to stick their neck out too
soon after this debacle to see where it goes from here.
So I think everyone's going to wind up taking a
big step back and assess the damage in our relationships
that this will result from the relationship with our ally
the Ukraine's NATO members, and what their reaction to this
(37:25):
is going to be other members of our global partners
and allies that we have who see this Ukraine war
as a microcosm of conflicts around the world that could
be to come. And this is obviously going to fan
a lot of insecurity in every corner of the world
(37:47):
after today.
Speaker 5 (37:49):
If you're just joining us on Bloomberg TV and radio,
we were supposed to be bringing you a joint news
conference between Trump and Zelenski at this time it has
been canceled after a meeting in the Oval office turned
sour voice as we're raised, an argument was had, and frankly,
it's unclear exactly where this relationship is going and what
the status of talks are with Ukraine and with Russia.
(38:10):
We are spending time with our signature panel right now,
Rick Davis and Genie Shanzeno as we try to get
our heads around everything that just happened. Here, Rick, what
takes place now that President Zelenski has left the White House,
the Diplomatic Corps, national Security Advisor have to hash out
what might be the next step here? What do you expect?
Speaker 6 (38:31):
Yeah, I'm sure the team is meeting right now in
the Oval Office with the President of the United States,
the National Security Advisor, and other leadership within the White House,
those who attended the meeting and those who have responsibilities
for the various branches of service that will be involved
normally in an event like this with a country as
(38:51):
close as we are to Ukraine. And the real question
is where do you go from here? How do you
look at a trajectory that Donald Trump clearly had a
plan right He has been talking directly to Vladimir Putin,
creating an opening, massaging egos in the Kremlin to get
them to a place where he thinks he could get
(39:12):
a deal, you know, probably managing some of his public
statements about Ukraine with that in mind, which has strained
the relationship with Ukraine, but otherwise has resulted in what
we thought was going to be the first step an
agreement to give US access to rarers in order to
(39:34):
in essence payback some of the money that we've invested
in the Ukraine effort that's now shot. The real question
is too to me that Vladimir Lensky and his team
will meet back, probably at the hotel right across the
Lafayette Plaza from the White House, you can see one
(39:57):
from the other, and they're going to have to assess
do they stay in Washington, do they get on a
plane and leave. Do they continue to hold interviews and
press availabilities that are currently scheduled, or do they take
those off the schedule. Look, this was not a good
day for either individual. You know, Vladimir Zelensky came to
(40:18):
an Oval office visit knowing Donald Trump well and knowing
that he has an explosive and erratic personality sometimes And
I don't put any of this on Zelensky, but his
reactions didn't result in a meeting that was constructive either,
(40:38):
And so both teams are assessing that to this minute
to determine where they go from here.
Speaker 9 (40:45):
I think we had all drawn this conclusion already, but
Bloomberg is now confirming with sources familiar that the US
and Ukraine did not sign that mineral steel today. They
failed to sign the agreement on Natural Resources Genie. It's
also worth pointing out as we have just seen now
a third world leader leaving the White House this week.
(41:05):
This follows a meeting which by all accounts seemed to
be successful between President Trump and the UK Prime Minister
cair Starmer yesterday, a similar one with the French President
Emmanuel Crone mcrone on Monday. Where is Europe in all
of this, having just had those meetings, having those two countries,
having pledged support for peacekeeping troops, if a deal is
ultimately agreed to, what, how are our allies likely viewing
(41:30):
what went down today?
Speaker 7 (41:32):
Well, they have to just be as stunned as we
all are. I mean, this was supposed to be to
your point, Kelly, the book end of this week of
meetings that started off with McCrone and Starmer and seemed
at least on the face of them, to have been
pretty successful in terms of, you know, trying to pull
Donald Trump over to the recognition that the United States
(41:53):
has a role to play in securing the future of Ukraine.
And that is obviously not you know, not at all.
What we've seen go on here, and I do think
we have to think long and hard now about this deal.
This deal was first broached by Zelensky last year. It
seems to have been Waltz and Rubio who tried to
(42:14):
bring it up again as a means to get Donald
Trump on board, because we know he likes to make
deals and this would allow us to get as many
rare earth minerals maybe as China, or at least move
in that direction. But all along the way he has
been no friend of Vladimir Zelensky or Ukraine. And of
course now he has a vice president who has long
(42:35):
expressed consternation about our support of Ukraine. So you know,
as we watch this go down, I am not so
sure that it is going to be resurrected quite as
easily as some people think. Because for Donald Trump, this is,
you know, a sense that he has long had that
there are points at which Vladimir Putin has spoken that
(42:56):
he reiterates often, and he has a very very different
view of the war in Ukraine than the United States
have express prior.
Speaker 5 (43:05):
Jenny Schanzino and Rick Davis, our signature panel Bloomberg Politics
contributors on a Breaking news Friday here in Washington, d C.
I'm Joe Matthew alongside Kaylee Liones. We want to bring
you back to the White House right now. You just
saw President Zelenski's suv with a van carrying the Ukrainian
delegation head right down the driveway out of the complex,
as Rick said, across Lafayette Park to the hay Adams Hotel.
(43:28):
They drove right by our tent on the north lawn
where we find Bloomberg's Tyler Kendall right now with the
latest what else is going on there?
Speaker 14 (43:35):
Tyler, Well, Joe. Just to stark difference from when Zalinski
arrived at the White House this morning, he was greeted
by an honor guard. Fifty six service members carrying flags
of each of the US states and territories greeted him.
I watched him and President Trump have that handshake right
in front of the West Wing, and then just how
quickly this has evolved. I mean, waiting for Zelenski to
(43:56):
come out here on the White House North lawn, every
reporter came out. You could hear a pin drop as
we waited for that door to open. Ultimately with Zelenski
coming out, not answering any of our questions. We also
saw the rest of his delegation pile into their vans
as they slowly drove out of these Northwest gates right
behind me. So big developments about what happens here next.
(44:16):
We're waiting to see if we get any additional information
from this White House, if they're going to brief US
reporters about what the next steps are coming. But Bloomberg
News confirming that that critical minerals deal was not signed,
something that President Trump said was critical for the US
to move forward when it comes to negotiations to end
this war in Ukraine.
Speaker 9 (44:36):
All right, Bloomberg's Tyler Kendall live at the White House
on a historic day. I think we can all say
thank you so much. And we want to add the
voice now of Kelly Griico, senior fellow with the Stimpson
Centers Reimagining US Grand Strategy program with us here on
Bloomberg TV and Radio. Kelly, we have been checking in
with you throughout the duration of this war, which is now,
of course, in its fourth year. And we should all
bear in mind that the President Zelensky, who we just
(44:58):
saw leave the White House is also leading a country
who is still actively at war, and I wonder how
this scene playing out in Vladimir Putin obviously going to
be able to bear witness to this, impacts what will
actually be happening on the ground and how things move
forward from here.
Speaker 15 (45:17):
Yes, well, thank you for having me. I will say
it's a little speechless having just watch what happened. I
think the good news, if there is ending at the moment,
is that just in the last few days, the Ukrainian
government has said publicly that they're able to sustain themselves
in terms of funds, equipment, and ammunition for at least
(45:37):
the first half of this year, so there won't be
an immediate impact on the battlefield in terms of material shortages.
The only thing I can anticipate if there, for some
reason the United States cut them off of information intelligence sharing.
We've been providing a lot of ISR intelligence, surveillance, reconnaissance
information that helps the Ukrainians with targeting, and if that
(45:58):
was to be cut off, or if they were lose
access to Starlink, which of course is a Musk company,
that would have a major impact.
Speaker 5 (46:07):
It's pretty remarkable. To your point, Kelly, I never thought
we'd be talking about a moment like this, everyone we're
talking with is sharing the same sentiment that you have here.
It's like that moment you can't believe you're getting into
a fight or was it was that stagecraft? At the
same time, this is a conversation that a lot of
Donald Trump's supporters were probably looking forward to hearing and seeing,
(46:28):
not fans of President Zelenski, and they don't think that
he has been grateful enough.
Speaker 15 (46:32):
What's your thought, Yes, I mean, I will say that
my interpretation of what happened is I see it as
it looked to me like he was baited, To be honest,
I think the administration was probably unhappy with his remarks
at Munich, which was sort of a rebuke of the administration.
I think they're concerned in the administration that Tolenski is
an impediment to peace, that he is the hardest piece
(46:57):
in some ways maybe to get peace, because he's he's
still very stuck on ambitious goals for Ukraine that may
not be realistic, and I think there's some probably desire
to maybe publicly try to rain him in. And this
seems to me like it was a tactic. It just
seemed like sort of a setup right, because he didn't
initiate this confrontation was initiated by you know, the Vice president.
(47:20):
Zelenski did not handle this well. To be very clear,
he fell for the bait, that's clear for sure. But
I think that, you know, how this plays out, this
is a risky strategy. How this plays out with the
American public is going to be very interesting because on
the one hand, there's this sense that Zlenskay has maybe
not been sufficiently grateful, uh, and you know that we've
done a lot, but it also looks a little bit
(47:42):
like the President is, you know, publicly humiliating a wartime
democratic leader of another country. And so how that plays
out it is hard to say.
Speaker 3 (47:53):
Uh, but this.
Speaker 15 (47:54):
Is a This is clearly a very bad, bad moment.
And I think the real the real sign to me
will be whether Zelensky stays in DC or not and
there's a second meeting, or if he ends up going home.
Speaker 9 (48:06):
Well, I guess we're all waiting to find out. Meantime,
you're seeing plenty of reaction pouring in on social media,
Kelly the Prime Minister of Poland, Donald Tusk saying dear Zelensky,
tagging him on Twitter, dear your Ukrainian friends, you are
not alone. And with that said, Kelly, we just have
a minute left here. But even if the US were
to say, all right, we're done with Ukraine now all
of our backing is gone, is Europe able to step
(48:28):
in to fill that void.
Speaker 15 (48:30):
They can fill a lot of voids, but there are
certain niche capabilities like patriot interceptors, face based capabilities that
are not they're not able to replace that. Only the
United States has those.
Speaker 5 (48:42):
It's great to have you with us, Kelly Griico, Senior Fellow,
Stimson Center Reimagining US Grant Strategy Program, one of many
voices of experience we've brought to you over the past
couple of hours here on Bloomberg TV and Radio.
Speaker 9 (48:55):
Yeah, we do know that President Lensky and the Ukrainian
delegation have left the White House, but they have not
yet left Washington, nor have they made plans to expedite
that process to our knowledge at least, though they did
not at least at this time sign that natural resources
deal with the United States again. That is what was
supposed to happen today. We were expecting to see it
in fact at this hour, and that of course is
(49:16):
not moving forward, as President Trump is suggesting that Vladimir's
Lensky today is gambling with World War three.
Speaker 5 (49:22):
We heard some pretty wild rhetoric together. That's what you
could expect on this program every day from Washington, d C.
Will bring it to you unfiltered and live when we can,
and we'll let you know what's going on when we
get back together. Thanks for listening to the Balance of
Power podcast. Make sure to subscribe if you haven't already,
at Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts, and
(49:45):
you can find us live every weekday from Washington, DC
at noontime Eastern at Bloomberg dot com.
Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
I'm not aligned with Putin, I'm not aligned with anybody.
I'm aligned with the United States of America and for
the good of the world.
Speaker 3 (00:15):
I'm aligned with the world. You want me to be tough.
I could be tougher than any human being you've ever seen.
I'd be so tough, But you're never going to get
a deal that way.
Speaker 4 (00:23):
Do you have nice ocean and don't feel now, but
you will feel it.
Speaker 3 (00:29):
Bless You don't know that. I'm blessed, you're I'm blessed.
You don't know.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Don't tell us what we're gonna feel. We're trying to
solve a problem. Don't tell us what we're going to feel.
I'm not telling you because you're in no position to
dictate that. Remember this, you're in no position to dictate
what we're going to feel. You're not in a good position.
You don't have the cards right now with us. You
start having right now. You don't know your playing car.
(00:55):
You're gambling with the lives and millions of people. You're
gambling with world two War three. Your country is in
big trouble.
Speaker 3 (01:02):
I know you're not winning. Oh you're not winning.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
This, you have a damn good chance of coming out
okay because of bread.
Speaker 5 (01:09):
All right, there you have President Trump, President Zelenski, Vice
President J. D Vance and others in a very crowded
Oval Office and what was a bilateral meeting that turned
into an argument. Just bringing that to you as it's
coming into our newsroom right now. They jumped in about
halfway through the meeting, so we might be able to
get you some other comments from the beginning of that conversation.
(01:31):
As reporters are escorted outside of the Oval Office, Donald
Trump to Vladimir Zelensky, you either make a deal or
we are out, he said, telling Zelensky he has to
be thankful, and he said it's going to be very
hard to do business like this. As President Zelenski tried
to make his case to jd Vance, Donald Trump and others,
things got very chippy in the middle of that meeting.
(01:53):
And we want to assemble our political panel. They were
listening along with us here our signature panel together. Rick Davis,
Republicans strategist partner at Stone Court Capital, and Genie Shanzano,
of course, our democratic analyst and political science professor at
Iona University. Rick, I'm not sure I've ever heard anything
like that come out of a meeting of world leaders
in the Oval Office. Typically an argument like that would
(02:14):
be behind closed doors. It just played out for everyone
to see. Is this relationship broken? Where do we go
from here?
Speaker 6 (02:20):
Yeah, Joe, I'm not sure you would even say that
this kind of argument ever happens behind closed doors. I mean,
these kinds of state to state discussions are usually finely tuned,
they're prepped, They have lots of staff involved making sure
that the time that the two principles spend together is
well orchestrated and that the outcome is totally predetermined. The
(02:42):
idea that you would put these two folks in the
Oval Office with a bunch of reporters to hash it
out is something I don't think I've ever seen in
five decades of Washington state craft. So I think what
we just witnessed was something that you know, look, I mean,
everybody Knewald Trump kind of you know, goes his own way,
(03:04):
but the idea that this is either good for America,
good for Ukraine, or good for the world is nuts.
This was an incredible failure of diplomacy. And regardless of
what happens today, maybe they get a deal and they
saw it, you know, showing this makes both countries look weak.
Speaker 5 (03:22):
Wow, Genie, give me your take on this. Was it
a conversation? A lot of people stressed out went off
the rails when they heard the wrong words from Voladimir Zelensky.
He wasn't thankful enough? Or was this a setup? Did
Donald Trump and Jade Vance plan to do this with
the cameras in the room?
Speaker 3 (03:40):
Yeah?
Speaker 7 (03:40):
I mean, you know, one of the big questions hanging
over this meeting, in addition to security guarantees, which we
could probably forget that question for right now, was can
we work together? You know, Vladimir Zelenski trying to test
out does Donald Trump, you know, like me enough that
we can make this happen? And that kind of exchange
is just a reminder and interpersonal relationships matter an awful
(04:04):
lot in these things, So that seems to be very clear.
There is not a lot of love lost there. And
of course this is quite embarrassing from the perspective of
the United States. He is talking to our ally in
this war. He is talking to a country invaded by Putin.
In twenty fourteen, seven million Ukrainians have fled their homeland.
(04:29):
We are talking of hundreds of thousands of innocent people
now dead, four millions still deplaced, and he is being
told from the Vice President and the President of the
United States, heretofore their allies that you are not being
thankful enough to us as you sit here. And so
it is quite an embarrassing spectacle. It does look made
(04:51):
for TV from my perspective. You wouldn't believe it unless
you saw it firsthand, that this was the conversation that
the are having, And I can't imagine what it looks
like behind the scenes. Is this is what they're displaying?
Speaker 5 (05:04):
Oh my god? Yeah, Well, what do you think, Rick?
Did this feel spontaneous? And does this torpedo the bilateral
news conference they had planned for ten minutes from now?
Speaker 6 (05:16):
You know, it's hard to tell what they're going to
do to put this back together, you know, behind closed
doors now, it's going to have to take a lot
of work, because I think both principals are going back
to their neutral corners ready to come out throwing punches again. Look,
I mean, Donald Trump, I think started out this session
pretty constructively, and I must admit, I mean the interjections
(05:39):
by Vice President Vance really stoked a lot of anger
in the room and was really counterproductive, I thought, and
even Donald Trump at the end tried to bring it
back and saying, look, we just wanted to stop the
killing and get a deal. And the elements of a
deal are there, right. I mean, he's had great meetings
this week with you know, leaders of Europe in France
(06:04):
and Great Britain, all of whom have guaranteed certain security
measures that they would do in case of a ceasefire
or a end of the war. And I mean, like
he was walking in the President of the United States
into kind of a very positive environment where he could,
you know, I didn't have to commit to putting troops
on the ground, but you know, could obviously continue to
(06:24):
say we're going to supply you with materials and weapons
because you're going to pay for them. And that kind
of relationship is traditional for US, I mean, and it's
sustainable over time. It's a real mature relationship between US
and one of its allies and supporters, Ukraine. So everyone
thought this was going to be sort of the beginning
of a real mature relationship, one that's post combat conflict.
(06:51):
And and my impression was that's not something JD. Van's
wanted to see happen today and set out to try
and derail it there in front of the American public.
Speaker 5 (07:03):
Just about a minute or two he left here Jeanie,
Donald Trump invoked Vladimir Putin's talked about what they had
gone through, how much they went through together during the
Russia investigation. He started doing the Russia, Russia, Russia thing.
He got very angry looking as he was referring to this.
He also revealed that he just met again recently with
Vladimir Putin. Do you think the Russian president had a
(07:26):
sense of what this meeting was going to be like?
Speaker 7 (07:29):
You know, it's hard to know. We thought this was
a win for Vladimir Zelensky that he got to Donald
Trump personally, face to face first. And you know, I
think there is going to be some criticism all around,
obviously starting with jd Vance, but including Vladimir Zelensky. The
reality is Ukraine unfortunately does not have a lot of
(07:51):
cards to play. And those were the exact words that
Donald Trump used. I'm not sure he needed to say
it that viscerally, but that's what he said, and he's right.
That's why Zelenski's task today was to do what they
told Queen Victoria. Close your eyes and think of England.
Close your eyes and think of Ukraine. And the reality
is he couldn't get there in the face of JD
(08:14):
Vance's taunting, and so I think he's going to bear
some criticism on this as well, because the reality is
Ukraine needs the support of the United States if they
are going to sisto.
Speaker 5 (08:25):
Our panel's going to stay with us, GD Shanzano and
Rick Davis. We're going to try to unpack what the
heck just happened in the Oval Office. So stay with
us right here on Bloomberg.
Speaker 1 (08:33):
You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast. Catch
us live weekdays at noon and five pm Eastern on
Apple Cockway and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business app.
You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our
flagship New York station. Just say Alexa play Bloomberg eleven thirty.
Speaker 5 (08:53):
We're going to have a conversation ahead with former Ambassador
Daniel Freed. First, we want to talk with Nick Wadams,
who leads our national security coverage here in Washington, DC. Nick,
have you ever seen anything like this before?
Speaker 3 (09:06):
No, I have not.
Speaker 8 (09:07):
That was one of the most extraordinary bits of television
I've ever seen. Obviously, the President there getting extremely angry,
and then Vice President jd Vance essentially asking Zelenski to
grovel and to express thanks to the US, which of
course he has done many times before for the weaponry
and the aid that the US has provided. So an
(09:29):
extraordinary moment.
Speaker 9 (09:32):
Well, certainly so. And I guess the question, Nick, is now,
what moments come after this? Things have moved behind closed doors.
But initially there was supposed to be an agreement signed
in front of the press in the East Room of
the White House that was supposed to be scheduled to
happen at this hour. Is there any indication of whether
that will still happen.
Speaker 8 (09:49):
Well, we are trying to figure that out. I mean,
the big question here is does that go ahead or
are we at an impasse where essentially the relationship is
totally broken. I mean, been clear for some time that
President Trump was not excited about Volodimir Zelenski. He did
at one point call him a dictator. Though then in
the last day or two we'd had a turn where
(10:09):
it felt like the situation was warming up a little bit,
things were getting better. They thought they had a deal
that served Ukraine's interests, essentially punted a lot of questions
until later, but gave President Trump a document to show
his supporters to say, look, we are going to get
something out of this.
Speaker 3 (10:27):
Now.
Speaker 8 (10:27):
Seems very unlikely to me that the two sides, without
some further intervention, would be willing to sit down and
actually put pen to paper, put their signatures on that document.
Then the whole thing may end up in total collapse.
But we'll just have to see. In the next hour
or so, they're also supposed to have a press conference,
and of course it's not going to happen, so great question.
Speaker 5 (10:47):
We will bring it to our viewers and listeners if
it does. Nick. That was scheduled to begin seven minutes ago,
but obviously things are running late. Before things started getting angry,
Donald Trump said to Voladimir Zelenski, you either make a
deal or we are out. You take him at his word.
Speaker 8 (11:05):
Yes, I would take him at his word on that.
I mean, you know, the thing that's so interesting is
this critical minerals deal. When you get down to it
was essentially an agreement to have talks about talks at
a later time, So there wasn't really anything in it
that actually committed either side to much of anything. And indeed,
there was some speculation that this was basically something that
(11:26):
Ukraine and some pro Ukraine lawmakers and others in the
United States could put in front of President Trump and say, listen,
we got this from them. Now we can get down
to the real business of actually having real negotiations, both
over this deal but over a peace agreement later on.
So if President Trump essentially backs out and throws himself
in with the Russian side, or abandons Ukraine and lets
(11:48):
Russia run roughshot over Ukrainian territory, I mean, this is
a critical moment. This is just completely unprecedented. So again,
we should have more clarity in the next couple of
hours and also in the coming days. But what you
really saw here was just the eruption of the hostility.
We had known that President Trump felt about Ukraine from
some time, but had been restrained from exhibiting. Now it
(12:10):
feels like those shackles are basically off.
Speaker 9 (12:14):
All right, Bloomberg's Nick Wadams, thank you so much with
reaction to the footage We've all just seen and watching
it alongside us now here in our Washington, d C.
Studio is Ambassador Daniel Freed, Distinguished Fellow at the Atlantic Council,
also former US Ambassador to Poland and former Assistant Secretary
of State for Europe here with Us on Bloomberg TV
and Radio. So obviously we all saw, we all heard
(12:36):
the exchange that happened between these three, ambassador What do
you make of it?
Speaker 10 (12:43):
Take a step back.
Speaker 11 (12:45):
The US has an interest in Ukraine succeeding. Our problems
in the world get better if Ukraine survives and prospers,
and if Russia wins, our problems get worse. It's been
quite a week. The Trump plan for Ukraine, as we
understand it, could work and was getting some traction ceasefire
(13:06):
in place, British and French led force in Ukraine, maybe
with American backup, a minerals deal with Ukraine that gives
President Trump the ability to say, yeah, I've got a
stake in this that could come together, and now this
now this blow up. Let's hope, best case that they
pull it together. You know, President Trump loves drama for TV.
(13:32):
Let's hope that they can pull it together. Sign the
minerals deal, move forward, because the US, the Trump administration
could succeed and Trump could get what he wants, which
is to push back on Putin, be seen as doing so,
and be seen as a peacemaker. Now I realize that
this may be completely fanciful if in the next few
(13:55):
hours this all blows up.
Speaker 10 (13:56):
I get that.
Speaker 11 (13:58):
But my job for forty years Foreign Service officer is
to try to look at the way forward, and there
is a way forward, which is why my frustration is
that the administration keeps stepping on its own policy. This
fight in the Oval was not necessary, especially because Zelenski
(14:19):
is actually working accord according to Trump's plan. He's ready
to sign the deal. I suspect he's ready to accept
the seize fire if he gets enough security. Trump could
win if he has the discipline to see it through.
Speaker 5 (14:34):
You've been in many rooms with world leaders for very
sensitive negotiations. I'm guessing you two have never seen anything
quite like that. Did it feel authentic, did it feel
spontaneous or was there some show business with cameras and
microphones in the room today.
Speaker 11 (14:49):
That's a good question. I watched it carefully. I think
Vice President Vance was provoking Zelenski. I think Zelenski could
have answered it differently. He was trying to explain the details.
That's not what I would have done or advised him
to do. But then you had the president and the
(15:11):
Vice president basically bullying a democratic leader who is fighting
for his freedom and ours. So I don't see what
American interest is is advanced by having this fight.
Speaker 10 (15:26):
Was it deliberate? Was it an ambush?
Speaker 11 (15:30):
It's possible, But the larger question remains, what do we
get out of having a fight? I know what Putin gets.
What do we get? We get a lot. If Ukraine succeeds,
and especially if we get the British and French to
carry the heavy load of the security burden, that's quite
a success for trumpet success for America. I'm all on board,
(15:53):
but the administration has to follow its own plan and
not get distracted by this stuff.
Speaker 9 (15:59):
Well, on your point, ambassador about it being in US
interest to see Ukraine succeed to the extent it can,
it did seem. We saw President Selensky trying to make
that point when he suggested, yes, I know you're here
on the other side of the Atlantic, but you could
ultimately feel this. President Trump pushed back on them, saying,
you know, don't tell us what to feel. But also
then later suggested Zelensky, right now is toying with World
(16:21):
War three, which presumably would involve the US, and somehow
we aren't immune to conflicts like that, as we saw
with the prior World War.
Speaker 10 (16:28):
So which is it? Yeah, President Trump was just wrong
about that. We thought we.
Speaker 11 (16:35):
Were safe behind two oceans and then Pearl Harbor, right,
we figured it out fast. We can't be the lonely
bastion of freedom in the world. That's what Franklin Roosevelt,
Harry Truman, and Ronald Reagan taught us. And that's the
right lesson and it is the Trump administration in its
(16:58):
more wise moments, understood that we're in a period of
great power rivalry and we have adversaries Russia, China, Iran.
So yeah, let's work with our friends to contend with
our adversaries. And Ukraine is our friend. Maybe a little
difficult sometime, but still.
Speaker 9 (17:15):
But the President today didn't seem to characterize Russia as
an adversary necessarily. When he was asked do you feel
in the middle, he said, I'm for both Ukraine and Russia.
Speaker 10 (17:23):
How did you interpret that?
Speaker 11 (17:24):
Well, that's not the language I would have used, and
I don't think our position at the UN was very
good on Monday where we supported a week resolution. But
if that's the way President Trump wants to play it, okay,
play it that way, but then land the deal, and
the deal has to provide for Ukraine's security because if
(17:45):
it doesn't, then we've been suckered by the Russians and diplomacy.
Speaker 10 (17:50):
Don't be the sucker.
Speaker 5 (17:52):
We love talking with practitioners. You're a career diplomat, bring
us into the room and maybe not an extent dream
like this, But when a meeting devolves, the reporters have left.
Who is in the diplomatic delegation? Who gets their arms
around this? Do people go to separate rooms? What do
you do now? As a diplomat when the meeting just
blew up in your face?
Speaker 11 (18:14):
You advise your principle on how to fix it? What
do you do to set it right? And you and
what do you do in terms of what's possible for
you politically? And someone like me is supposed to find
a way forward? Sosident. If I were advising President Trump,
(18:34):
I would say, look, you made your point. Now tell
Zelensky make light of it. Tells Zelensky we need a deal.
Let's show people after we've pushed back that we can
do that.
Speaker 5 (18:43):
But you get the boss alone in a room. Right now,
everyone goes cool off for a minute.
Speaker 11 (18:47):
Now, the national security this is the job for the
National Security Advisory And I think Mike Walls.
Speaker 10 (18:54):
Is a serious person.
Speaker 5 (18:55):
He was right in there.
Speaker 10 (18:56):
That's right now.
Speaker 11 (18:57):
I also think that Zelensky, he should Zelenski's people should
figure out a way for him to approach Trump and
make clear that yeah, he's grateful to the United States,
and yeah, he appreciates Trump's role in pushing things forward.
Say that it's true enough and it will help. So
(19:18):
you at moments like this, the pros scramble, don't wring
your hands, don't complain, figure out what you're going to do,
figure out the way forward, and do it fast.
Speaker 5 (19:28):
Do They will have this news conference Kaling.
Speaker 9 (19:30):
Well, I was just about to ask, ambassador, do you
have confidence that they are able to do that? And
we'll see these two having corrected or taken the break
that they need, facing the press once again, worse afternoons.
Speaker 11 (19:41):
I'm in an impossible position because we're going to know
just how long I am. I would say this because
it's Donald Trump who loves drama. And twists and turns.
He could easily decide to pull it back. He could
now I'm not saying he will, but I don't think
all is necessarily lost.
Speaker 10 (20:03):
Right.
Speaker 11 (20:03):
He loves TV drama and he's got one going. But
the drama. You don't milk that drama. If you continue
the fight, you get more attention and put yourself maybe
in a stronger tactical tactical position, if you can come
out and say, yeah, that.
Speaker 10 (20:19):
Was rough, but we've agreed.
Speaker 11 (20:22):
So if I were advising the President, I would say, Okay,
you pushed hard.
Speaker 10 (20:29):
Now lands Land a deal.
Speaker 5 (20:32):
If you're Donald Trump, you can take credit for saving
this day, can't you?
Speaker 10 (20:37):
If things go right, that would be my advice.
Speaker 11 (20:41):
Again, they're not going to ask me, but somebody like
me is supposed to advise the president on how to
succeed on his term.
Speaker 9 (20:48):
Ambassador, I apologize for interrupting, but we just got a
statement from the President which reads as follows. It's amazing
what comes out through emotion. And I have determined that
President Zelensky is not ready for peace if America is involved,
because he feels our involvement gives him a big advantage
in negotiations. I don't want advantage. I want peace. He
goes on to say he disrespected the United States of
(21:11):
America in its cherished Oval office. He can come back
when he is ready for peace.
Speaker 5 (21:17):
Pretty remarkable here.
Speaker 11 (21:18):
Well, that's unfortunate, especially because we showed no similar toughness
in New York on Monday with a week un resolution.
Not good and I don't see what American interest is
advanced thereby.
Speaker 5 (21:35):
If there was one voice we could have at the
table today, it would be Daniel Freed, Ambassador, thank you
so much for being with us at this critical moment
in Washington. I'm Joe Matthew alongside Kaylee Lines. Will have
much more ahead with our signature panel. This is Bloomberg.
Speaker 1 (21:50):
You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast. Catch
us live weekdays at noon and five pm. E's durn
On Apple Cockley and Android Otto with the Bloomberg Business Up.
Listen on demand wherever you get your podcasts, or watch
us live on YouTube.
Speaker 9 (22:07):
Bloomberg just confirming that the joint press conference that was
scheduled to be this afternoon between President Trump and Ukrainian
President Vladimir Zelensky is canceled after an argument in the
Oval Office. Today was originally supposed to be about signing
a minerals deal, and no sign that is actually going
to take place. As President Trump has taken to true
Social saying he is determined that Zelensky is not ready
(22:30):
for peace if America is involved. He went on to
say he disrespected the United States of America and its
cherished Oval Office. He can come back when he's ready
for peace.
Speaker 5 (22:41):
Yeah, so we've got a problem. This was a meeting
that devolved into a bit of a shouting match. Voices
were raised, an argument took place, and we brought you
into the Oval Office for this conversation. It was really
once Vice President JD. Vance started to address and challenge vladimir'
Elenski about not being thankful enough that things started to
get chippy. By the time Well Trump was speaking, he
(23:01):
was genuinely angry and threatening to pull out of all
of these talks. Now you mentioned his post on truth Social.
It's possible that Zelenski will talk to reporters in the
driveway because we're not getting a East room news conference now.
If that happens, we'll bring you into the driveway to
hear more from him. His vehicle is still parked in
front of the entrance to the West wing, and we've
(23:23):
got our panel with us. Kayleie, Rick Davis and Genie
Shanzano have been listening and watching along with us. We
want to bring you into the oval before we get
their take on what just happened for an unprecedented moment
in politics, Let's watch and listen.
Speaker 3 (23:35):
Can I ask you? Sure?
Speaker 5 (23:37):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (23:38):
Yeah, okay.
Speaker 4 (23:39):
So he occupied it our parts, big parts of Ukraine,
parts of East and Crimea. So he occupied it on
twenty fourteen. So during a lot of years. So I'm
not speaking about Jus Biden, but those time was Obama,
(24:00):
President Obama, then President Trump, then President Biden, now the
President Trump and God bless now President Trump will stop him.
But during twenty fifteen, nobody stopped him. He just occupied
and took He killed people. You know what the contact
twenty fifteen.
Speaker 3 (24:16):
Twenty.
Speaker 4 (24:18):
Four yea, so he kills not here, yeah, by the
second right, yes, But during twenty fourteen till twenty twenty two,
what the situation the same that people have been dying
on the contact line. Nobody stopped him. You know that
we had conversations with him a lot of conversations.
Speaker 3 (24:37):
My belateral conversation.
Speaker 4 (24:39):
And we signed with him, me like a new president
in twenty nineteen, I signed with him the deal I
signed with him. Mccron and mayor kill we signed ceasefire, ceasefire.
All of them told me that he will never go.
We signed him with guest contract quantrum. Yes, but after
(25:01):
that he broken this is fire. He killed a people
and he didn't exchange prisoners. We signed the exchange.
Speaker 3 (25:09):
Of prisoners, but he didn't do it. What kind of
diplomacy gg us speaking about? What? What do you what
do you mean?
Speaker 12 (25:18):
I'm talking about the kind of diplomacy that's going to
end the destruction of your country. But mister President, mister president,
with respect, I think it's disrespectful for you to come
into the Oval Office to try to litigate this in
front of the American media. Right now, you guys are
going around and forcing conscripts to the front lines because
you have manpower problems. You should be thanking the president
for trying to bring it into this conflict.
Speaker 4 (25:39):
Into Ukraine that you say, what problems we have? I
have been to come one.
Speaker 12 (25:43):
I've actually I've actually watched and seen the stories and
I know what happens is you bring people, you bring them.
Speaker 3 (25:50):
On a propaganda tour.
Speaker 12 (25:51):
Mister President, are do you disagree that you've had problems
bringing people in your military have? And do you think
that it's respectful to come to the over office of
the United States of America and attack the administration that
is trying to trying to prevent the destruction of your country?
Speaker 3 (26:06):
A lot of questions. Let's start from the beginning. Sure,
first to all.
Speaker 4 (26:10):
During the war, everybody has problems, even you. But you
have nice ocean and don't feel now, but you will feel.
Speaker 3 (26:17):
It in the future. God bless you. Don't know that.
I'm blessed. You're un blessed. You're not.
Speaker 2 (26:23):
Don't tell us what we're going to feel. We're trying
to solve a problem. Don't tell us what we're going
to feel. I'm not telling you because you're in no
position to dictate that. Remember this, you're in no position
to dictate what we're going to feel.
Speaker 3 (26:37):
We're going to feel very good, feel influenced.
Speaker 2 (26:39):
We're going to feel very good and very strong, will
feel influenced. You're right now not in a very good position.
You've allowed you to be in a very bad position.
That happens to be right about.
Speaker 3 (26:49):
From the very beginning of the war, not in a
good position. You don't have the cards right now with us.
Speaker 2 (26:55):
You start having right now, you pays. You're gambling with
lives and millions of people.
Speaker 3 (27:03):
You're gambling with world War three. You're gambling with World
War three.
Speaker 2 (27:08):
And what you're doing is very disrespectful to the country.
This country. It's back to you far more than a
lot of people said they should have.
Speaker 12 (27:18):
Have you said thank you once this entire meeting. No,
in this entire meeting, you said thank you. You went
to Pennsylvania and campaigned for the opposition in October, offers
some words of appreciation for the United States of America
and the president who's trying to save your country.
Speaker 4 (27:35):
Please, you're seeing that if you will speak were loudly
about the war.
Speaker 2 (27:40):
He's not speaking loudly. He's not speaking loudly. Your country
is in big trouble. No, No, you've done a lot of talking.
Your country is in big trouble. I know you're not winning.
You're not winning this. You have a damn good chance
of coming out okay, because.
Speaker 3 (27:55):
Of the president. Were staying Yawa country.
Speaker 4 (27:57):
Staying strong from the very beginning of the war, we've
been alone, and we are thankful.
Speaker 3 (28:02):
I said, thanks, you haven't been keping it. You haven't
been alone.
Speaker 2 (28:05):
We gave you, through this stupid president, three hundred and
fifty billion dollars.
Speaker 3 (28:10):
We gave your military equipment. You and you men are brave,
but they had to use our military one.
Speaker 2 (28:16):
If you didn't have our military equipment, If you didn't
have our military equipment, this war would have been over
in two weeks.
Speaker 4 (28:24):
In three days, I heard it from Puttin in three days.
This is how maybe less in two weeks. Of course, yes, it's.
Speaker 2 (28:30):
Going to be a very hard thing to do business
like this.
Speaker 13 (28:32):
I'm gonna tell you they thank you, I said, except
that they're accept the American except that there are disagreements,
and let's go litigate those disagreements rather than trying to
fight it out in.
Speaker 12 (28:43):
The American media when you're wrong. We know that you're wrong.
Speaker 2 (28:47):
But you see, I think it's good for the American
people to see what's going on. I think it's very important.
That's why I kept this going so long. You have
to be thankful. You don't have the cards. You're buried there.
You're people that died. You're running low on soldiers. Listen,
you're running low on soldiers. It would be a damn
good thing. And then then you tell us I don't
(29:09):
want to cease fire. I don't want to cease fire.
I want to go and I wanted this.
Speaker 3 (29:13):
Look, if you.
Speaker 2 (29:15):
Could get a ceasefire right now, I tell you you
take it. So the bullets stopped flying and your mint
stuff courting killed.
Speaker 3 (29:20):
We want to stop the war. But you're saying you
don't want to see you.
Speaker 2 (29:24):
I want to see guarantee because you get a ceasefire
faster than any.
Speaker 3 (29:27):
Greet core people about fire. What they see.
Speaker 2 (29:30):
That wasn't with me, That wasn't with me. That was
with a guy named Biden, who was not a smart person.
Speaker 3 (29:38):
That was your That was with Oba. Excuse me.
Speaker 2 (29:41):
That was with Obama, who gave you sheets and I
gave you javelins. I gave you the javelins to take
out all those tanks. Obama gave you sheets. In fact,
the statement is Obama gave sheets and Trump gave javelins.
You got to be more thankful, because let me tell
you, you don't have the cards. With us, you have the cards,
(30:03):
but without us, you don't have any cards.
Speaker 9 (30:07):
And there you have it. The dispute in the Oval
Office between President Trump, Vice President JD Vance, and Ukrainian
President vladimir's Lensky, which has now resulted in the cancellation
of a press conference that was supposed to be held
at this hour with Trump and Zelensky, and Donald Trump
saying on true social that Zelensky can return when he
is ready for peace. We are watching outside the White
(30:29):
House to see if the Ukrainian president does indeed depart
and whether or not he speaks to press in the
aftermath of this, given that the scheduled time at which
he could have done so has now been called off.
Speaker 2 (30:39):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (30:39):
We should note, by the way, that this is an
incredibly busy day at the White House. There are scores
of reporters there who also came from Europe, came from Ukraine.
Not to mention, of course, the American reporters who were
there for a very important day that we expected to
see the signing of a minerals deal between the US
and Ukraine. The briefing room is packed, The Oval Office
was packed with those selected to be part of the
(31:00):
pool today, but there will be a throng of reporters.
I believe Josh Wingrove described it as a zoo when
he got there earlier this morning. They're in the driveway,
as you can see now on Bloomberg TV and on YouTube,
the vehicle that brought Vladimir Zelenski to the White Houses
waiting for him just outside the West Wing entrance. And
if we were able to pull out a bit, you'd
see the sticks, as they call it, the stakeout position,
(31:21):
where microphones and cameras are waiting for him. So, Kaylee,
he may well take some questions. We'll find out together.
Speaker 9 (31:26):
Indeed, and while we wait to find out, we turned
back to our signature political panel who was with us today,
Rick Davis and Jeanie Schanzy know both Bloomberg Politics contributors. Rick,
given what we all just listened to again, the tone,
the language that these three were using with each other
in the Oval Office of all places, are you surprised
that things cannot move forward in the aftermath, or at
(31:47):
least don't seem to be moving forward now?
Speaker 6 (31:50):
Yeah, you would think that they'd set aside the emotion
that the statement referred to from the White House and
regroup with their teams. I can imagine National Security Advisor
Walls is in conversations with the President, Vice President and
his team trying to make something out of this. You
(32:11):
don't get these opportunities very often to have something go
forward toward a constructive piece agreement like today was planned
to be, and allow something like the spectacle and the
Oval Office to derail it. But the statement is speaks
for itself. It sounds like there's no further progress that
(32:32):
will be had today and these teams will have to
reset and find a new avenue toward diplomacy. So this
is not followed along the lines of any diplomatic effort.
I've ever seen lots of momentum coming into today with
the meetings earlier this week with the Prime Minister of
the UK and the President of France, and you would
(32:53):
have thought that this would have resulted in a very positive,
constructive outcome. Instead have high fives in the Kremlin. This
is exactly what they would have wanted to see happen,
and it's going to be a big step backwards in
stopping the fight that Donald Trump claims is his number
one priority, stop the bloodshed.
Speaker 5 (33:15):
High fives in the Kremlin. Genie, would it be smart
politically for Zelenski to come out of that west wing
entrance we're looking at right now, and take questions from reporters,
try to make this case or is he dig the
hole deeper for Ukraine.
Speaker 7 (33:32):
You know, it is such a tough call for Zelensky.
He had one big job to do, which was to
try to mend a here to for difficult relationship with
Donald Trump today. And the clip you played is so
important because you can hear him at the offset of
that trying, you know, fairly innocently to explain to JD.
(33:53):
Vance and the President the history he is a board
leader for three years, the history of his going back
to twenty fourteen, the two Minsk Agreement signed that Vladimir
Putin after invading his country did not live up to,
and trying to explain to them why they cannot trust
or he cannot trust Putin to live up to an
agreement now, and then you hear JD. Vance come in
(34:16):
like a quite frankly, like he was talking to one
of his young children or something, berating Zelenski. And then
of course Donald Trump jumped right into that. And you
know the reality is is that this is going to
be very very tough to repair. It doesn't mean we
won't get that rare earth mineral deal, but this goes
so far beyond that. And I think one thing to
(34:39):
watch for here is can Marco Rubio and Waltz, who
are more interventionist in the traditional sense, walk Donald Trump
off the ledge here and walk this back and get
this deal back on track. I don't know if it's possible,
but there is a big division in this administration between
those who are non interventionists like JD. Vansho, by the way,
(35:01):
in the Senate did not support aid for Ukraine, and
those like Rubio and Waltz. And we have to see
if they can bring Donald Trump back to the idea
that a deal on the rare mineral or earth minerals
would be give us a leg up economically, and then
that would sort of, you know, lay the groundwork for
them to move forward with a potentially relationship to be
(35:22):
built on with Zelensky. But very very tough for Zolensky,
three years at war, so many people dead, in displaced,
to have to listen to the Vice president demanding that
he be more express more gratitude and quite frankly the ahistorical,
you know, renditions of what has happened in his own country, well.
Speaker 9 (35:45):
To Genie's point, Rick be as we consider the cast
of characters here beyond just the President and Vice president,
Secretary of State Marco Rubio, national Security Advisor Mike Waltz,
those who are more hawkish in Congress, who have long
supported Ukraine. I'm thinking here, Senators Lindsay Graham and others.
Do you expect a collective voice here could come to
check the impulses of the President and Vice president on
(36:07):
this one, or is it ultimately what they say that
will go because President Trump is suggesting he's communicating directly
with Vladimir Putin.
Speaker 6 (36:15):
Yeah, I think that's a very good question, Kaylee. What
the net effect is going to be with the President's
leaders in Republican Party who are, as you describe them,
more hawkish toward the Kremlin. So we've not seen much
evidence of that, although many of them did come out
and vocally reinforced the fact that when the President called
(36:39):
Zelensky a dictator, they pushed back on that and made
it clear that Vladimir Putin's the dictator. So that being said,
they have not been. Congress has not played even a
marginal role in the peace process, if you want to
call it that. After today, and so I can't imagine
(37:01):
anybody's going to want to stick their neck out too
soon after this debacle to see where it goes from here.
So I think everyone's going to wind up taking a
big step back and assess the damage in our relationships
that this will result from the relationship with our ally
the Ukraine's NATO members, and what their reaction to this
(37:25):
is going to be other members of our global partners
and allies that we have who see this Ukraine war
as a microcosm of conflicts around the world that could
be to come. And this is obviously going to fan
a lot of insecurity in every corner of the world
(37:47):
after today.
Speaker 5 (37:49):
If you're just joining us on Bloomberg TV and radio,
we were supposed to be bringing you a joint news
conference between Trump and Zelenski at this time it has
been canceled after a meeting in the Oval office turned
sour voice as we're raised, an argument was had, and frankly,
it's unclear exactly where this relationship is going and what
the status of talks are with Ukraine and with Russia.
(38:10):
We are spending time with our signature panel right now,
Rick Davis and Genie Shanzeno as we try to get
our heads around everything that just happened. Here, Rick, what
takes place now that President Zelenski has left the White House,
the Diplomatic Corps, national Security Advisor have to hash out
what might be the next step here? What do you expect?
Speaker 6 (38:31):
Yeah, I'm sure the team is meeting right now in
the Oval Office with the President of the United States,
the National Security Advisor, and other leadership within the White House,
those who attended the meeting and those who have responsibilities
for the various branches of service that will be involved
normally in an event like this with a country as
(38:51):
close as we are to Ukraine. And the real question
is where do you go from here? How do you
look at a trajectory that Donald Trump clearly had a
plan right He has been talking directly to Vladimir Putin,
creating an opening, massaging egos in the Kremlin to get
them to a place where he thinks he could get
(39:12):
a deal, you know, probably managing some of his public
statements about Ukraine with that in mind, which has strained
the relationship with Ukraine, but otherwise has resulted in what
we thought was going to be the first step an
agreement to give US access to rarers in order to
(39:34):
in essence payback some of the money that we've invested
in the Ukraine effort that's now shot. The real question
is too to me that Vladimir Lensky and his team
will meet back, probably at the hotel right across the
Lafayette Plaza from the White House, you can see one
(39:57):
from the other, and they're going to have to assess
do they stay in Washington, do they get on a
plane and leave. Do they continue to hold interviews and
press availabilities that are currently scheduled, or do they take
those off the schedule. Look, this was not a good
day for either individual. You know, Vladimir Zelensky came to
(40:18):
an Oval office visit knowing Donald Trump well and knowing
that he has an explosive and erratic personality sometimes And
I don't put any of this on Zelensky, but his
reactions didn't result in a meeting that was constructive either,
(40:38):
And so both teams are assessing that to this minute
to determine where they go from here.
Speaker 9 (40:45):
I think we had all drawn this conclusion already, but
Bloomberg is now confirming with sources familiar that the US
and Ukraine did not sign that mineral steel today. They
failed to sign the agreement on Natural Resources Genie. It's
also worth pointing out as we have just seen now
a third world leader leaving the White House this week.
(41:05):
This follows a meeting which by all accounts seemed to
be successful between President Trump and the UK Prime Minister
cair Starmer yesterday, a similar one with the French President
Emmanuel Crone mcrone on Monday. Where is Europe in all
of this, having just had those meetings, having those two countries,
having pledged support for peacekeeping troops, if a deal is
ultimately agreed to, what, how are our allies likely viewing
(41:30):
what went down today?
Speaker 7 (41:32):
Well, they have to just be as stunned as we
all are. I mean, this was supposed to be to
your point, Kelly, the book end of this week of
meetings that started off with McCrone and Starmer and seemed
at least on the face of them, to have been
pretty successful in terms of, you know, trying to pull
Donald Trump over to the recognition that the United States
(41:53):
has a role to play in securing the future of Ukraine.
And that is obviously not you know, not at all.
What we've seen go on here, and I do think
we have to think long and hard now about this deal.
This deal was first broached by Zelensky last year. It
seems to have been Waltz and Rubio who tried to
(42:14):
bring it up again as a means to get Donald
Trump on board, because we know he likes to make
deals and this would allow us to get as many
rare earth minerals maybe as China, or at least move
in that direction. But all along the way he has
been no friend of Vladimir Zelensky or Ukraine. And of
course now he has a vice president who has long
(42:35):
expressed consternation about our support of Ukraine. So you know,
as we watch this go down, I am not so
sure that it is going to be resurrected quite as
easily as some people think. Because for Donald Trump, this is,
you know, a sense that he has long had that
there are points at which Vladimir Putin has spoken that
(42:56):
he reiterates often, and he has a very very different
view of the war in Ukraine than the United States
have express prior.
Speaker 5 (43:05):
Jenny Schanzino and Rick Davis, our signature panel Bloomberg Politics
contributors on a Breaking news Friday here in Washington, d C.
I'm Joe Matthew alongside Kaylee Liones. We want to bring
you back to the White House right now. You just
saw President Zelenski's suv with a van carrying the Ukrainian
delegation head right down the driveway out of the complex,
as Rick said, across Lafayette Park to the hay Adams Hotel.
(43:28):
They drove right by our tent on the north lawn
where we find Bloomberg's Tyler Kendall right now with the
latest what else is going on there?
Speaker 14 (43:35):
Tyler, Well, Joe. Just to stark difference from when Zalinski
arrived at the White House this morning, he was greeted
by an honor guard. Fifty six service members carrying flags
of each of the US states and territories greeted him.
I watched him and President Trump have that handshake right
in front of the West Wing, and then just how
quickly this has evolved. I mean, waiting for Zelenski to
(43:56):
come out here on the White House North lawn, every
reporter came out. You could hear a pin drop as
we waited for that door to open. Ultimately with Zelenski
coming out, not answering any of our questions. We also
saw the rest of his delegation pile into their vans
as they slowly drove out of these Northwest gates right
behind me. So big developments about what happens here next.
(44:16):
We're waiting to see if we get any additional information
from this White House, if they're going to brief US
reporters about what the next steps are coming. But Bloomberg
News confirming that that critical minerals deal was not signed,
something that President Trump said was critical for the US
to move forward when it comes to negotiations to end
this war in Ukraine.
Speaker 9 (44:36):
All right, Bloomberg's Tyler Kendall live at the White House
on a historic day. I think we can all say
thank you so much. And we want to add the
voice now of Kelly Griico, senior fellow with the Stimpson
Centers Reimagining US Grand Strategy program with us here on
Bloomberg TV and Radio. Kelly, we have been checking in
with you throughout the duration of this war, which is now,
of course, in its fourth year. And we should all
bear in mind that the President Zelensky, who we just
(44:58):
saw leave the White House is also leading a country
who is still actively at war, and I wonder how
this scene playing out in Vladimir Putin obviously going to
be able to bear witness to this, impacts what will
actually be happening on the ground and how things move
forward from here.
Speaker 15 (45:17):
Yes, well, thank you for having me. I will say
it's a little speechless having just watch what happened. I
think the good news, if there is ending at the moment,
is that just in the last few days, the Ukrainian
government has said publicly that they're able to sustain themselves
in terms of funds, equipment, and ammunition for at least
(45:37):
the first half of this year, so there won't be
an immediate impact on the battlefield in terms of material shortages.
The only thing I can anticipate if there, for some
reason the United States cut them off of information intelligence sharing.
We've been providing a lot of ISR intelligence, surveillance, reconnaissance
information that helps the Ukrainians with targeting, and if that
(45:58):
was to be cut off, or if they were lose
access to Starlink, which of course is a Musk company,
that would have a major impact.
Speaker 5 (46:07):
It's pretty remarkable. To your point, Kelly, I never thought
we'd be talking about a moment like this, everyone we're
talking with is sharing the same sentiment that you have here.
It's like that moment you can't believe you're getting into
a fight or was it was that stagecraft? At the
same time, this is a conversation that a lot of
Donald Trump's supporters were probably looking forward to hearing and seeing,
(46:28):
not fans of President Zelenski, and they don't think that
he has been grateful enough.
Speaker 15 (46:32):
What's your thought, Yes, I mean, I will say that
my interpretation of what happened is I see it as
it looked to me like he was baited, To be honest,
I think the administration was probably unhappy with his remarks
at Munich, which was sort of a rebuke of the administration.
I think they're concerned in the administration that Tolenski is
an impediment to peace, that he is the hardest piece
(46:57):
in some ways maybe to get peace, because he's he's
still very stuck on ambitious goals for Ukraine that may
not be realistic, and I think there's some probably desire
to maybe publicly try to rain him in. And this
seems to me like it was a tactic. It just
seemed like sort of a setup right, because he didn't
initiate this confrontation was initiated by you know, the Vice president.
(47:20):
Zelenski did not handle this well. To be very clear,
he fell for the bait, that's clear for sure. But
I think that, you know, how this plays out, this
is a risky strategy. How this plays out with the
American public is going to be very interesting because on
the one hand, there's this sense that Zlenskay has maybe
not been sufficiently grateful, uh, and you know that we've
done a lot, but it also looks a little bit
(47:42):
like the President is, you know, publicly humiliating a wartime
democratic leader of another country. And so how that plays
out it is hard to say.
Speaker 3 (47:53):
Uh, but this.
Speaker 15 (47:54):
Is a This is clearly a very bad, bad moment.
And I think the real the real sign to me
will be whether Zelensky stays in DC or not and
there's a second meeting, or if he ends up going home.
Speaker 9 (48:06):
Well, I guess we're all waiting to find out. Meantime,
you're seeing plenty of reaction pouring in on social media,
Kelly the Prime Minister of Poland, Donald Tusk saying dear Zelensky,
tagging him on Twitter, dear your Ukrainian friends, you are
not alone. And with that said, Kelly, we just have
a minute left here. But even if the US were
to say, all right, we're done with Ukraine now all
of our backing is gone, is Europe able to step
(48:28):
in to fill that void.
Speaker 15 (48:30):
They can fill a lot of voids, but there are
certain niche capabilities like patriot interceptors, face based capabilities that
are not they're not able to replace that. Only the
United States has those.
Speaker 5 (48:42):
It's great to have you with us, Kelly Griico, Senior Fellow,
Stimson Center Reimagining US Grant Strategy Program, one of many
voices of experience we've brought to you over the past
couple of hours here on Bloomberg TV and Radio.
Speaker 9 (48:55):
Yeah, we do know that President Lensky and the Ukrainian
delegation have left the White House, but they have not
yet left Washington, nor have they made plans to expedite
that process to our knowledge at least, though they did
not at least at this time sign that natural resources
deal with the United States again. That is what was
supposed to happen today. We were expecting to see it
in fact at this hour, and that of course is
(49:16):
not moving forward, as President Trump is suggesting that Vladimir's
Lensky today is gambling with World War three.
Speaker 5 (49:22):
We heard some pretty wild rhetoric together. That's what you
could expect on this program every day from Washington, d C.
Will bring it to you unfiltered and live when we can,
and we'll let you know what's going on when we
get back together. Thanks for listening to the Balance of
Power podcast. Make sure to subscribe if you haven't already,
at Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts, and
(49:45):
you can find us live every weekday from Washington, DC
at noontime Eastern at Bloomberg dot com.
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