April 25, 2025 • 50 mins
Buell Motorcycles CEO Bill Melvin joins the podcast to talk about resurrecting an old American brand in the age of Trump's tariffs. Plus, a deep dive on the Cadillac Escalade IQ and a preview of the Ineos Grenadier.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio news. I'm Matt Miller and
I'm Hannah Elliott, and this is Hot Pursuit.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
All right, we have I'm very excited because we get
to play our Buell interview today.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
Yeah, with Bill Milvin.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Yeah, so you'll hear a little bit about starting a
business in America. It is a motorcycle business, not a
car business, but I think people still care.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
I think yeah, And the timing is fascinating because it's
an old brand but they're bringing it back and it's
mostly American, and yeah, I think the whole thing is fascinating.
I actually want to follow this story as it as
it unfolds.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
He's also a car lover. By the way, I went
to the auto show with him last week, which turned
out to be pretty cool.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
I went, I was going to ask you how that went.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
Yeah, it was fun because Magnus knew some important people,
including Brian Miller, whuns Manhattan Motor Cars. Then he introduced
me to Brian Miller, and then Brian gave me his
take on the whole tariff thing, which was I thought,
really fascinating. And you know, people write off these auto shows.
I do for sure. Because they're not as.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
There's not a lot of news broken for those of
us who are covering news, it's not news.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
It's not like it used to be. But I still
love seeing the cars. Like there was a Mustang GTD there,
which is absolutely gorgeous. The literalty was white with the
red and blue stripes and you could you can see
the shocks and in the suspension system in the back.
I just was dying.
Speaker 1 (01:46):
Yeah. I mean for people who haven't seen that car yet,
that's the perfect opportunity to see that car, because I mean,
it's it's a big deal. It still is a big deal,
even though it's you know, it's been out for a year.
It's a big deal. So if you haven't seen it,
it's worth going.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
Plus, I saw the Ford PR there and I was
begging him to let me. I was like, dude, is
there any chance I could drive this?
Speaker 1 (02:06):
Did you get a commitment?
Speaker 2 (02:07):
He said maybe at Lamont.
Speaker 1 (02:11):
Yeah, it's not not.
Speaker 2 (02:14):
We Also, I also want to talk a little bit
before we get into that stuff. I want to go
through the emails that we got and then need to
go through and then I want to talk about the
Cadillac Escalade IQ it's a big halt, like maybe ten
pounds worth of electric vehicle that you drove already and
(02:34):
I'm spending the week with now.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
Yes, by the way, before we jump in, are you
planning to turn on your camera met or do you
stay out?
Speaker 3 (02:43):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (02:43):
You know, I'd love to see your shining place.
Speaker 2 (02:45):
I will, I will turn it on.
Speaker 1 (02:47):
I'm talking to myself here.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
So obviously our listeners.
Speaker 1 (02:51):
There we go. There you are. You're still in your
You're still in your corporate corporate, Yeah, I get it.
We have to do that times.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
You've got the union jack on your.
Speaker 1 (03:03):
You know what this is. I'm so proud of it.
This is Kate Moss's collaboration with Topshop that she did
some years back. This is a reproduction of the John
Galliano union jack jacket that she wore on the cover
of Vogue back in the day, and the top Shop
recreated it. And I found this inn a vintage store
(03:25):
last week in New York for fifty bucks. Nice and
I'm loving it, so thank you for noticing.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
Nice. Very cool. You know what, why don't we talk
a little bit before we get into everything else. Let's
go through the emails, and one of them has to
one of them touches on textiles and clothing right our
ongoing discussion about Japanese denim. Dean wrote in and said
thanks very much for continuing on that thread. He says,
(03:55):
of course Magnus has firsthand knowledge of clothing production. All right,
So anyway, we do a pre shape people writing in
and our email address is hot Pursuit at Bloomberg dot net.
Speaker 1 (04:05):
Yeah, that right, Hot Pursuit at Bloomberg dot net. And
Dean know you are not the only idiot who names
all your vehicles for us to see in the email.
And we do appreciate you sending the photos.
Speaker 2 (04:19):
And do you nail it cars? Also?
Speaker 1 (04:21):
Do you? I don't know. No, I'm not a I'm
not a namer of cars at all. I never have
I go by color. I say, the red one. What
about you?
Speaker 2 (04:32):
You need your dor? No, I don't. When I was
a kid, we did our family cars like the blue
suede was my oh that's nice Volvo to forty gail
station wagon from nineteen eighty four. It was baby blue.
But no, I don't. I don't do that anymore. I
guess I would if if there was some reason, but
I just don't personify these things.
Speaker 1 (04:52):
No, I don't. I don't either. I don't think there's
anything wrong with that at all. It's just I personify
my dog. I think that's where I direct my humanization
of things.
Speaker 2 (05:04):
I'm glad you name your dog Willow.
Speaker 1 (05:06):
Yeah, Willow, she identifies as she her person.
Speaker 2 (05:11):
That's great that she has her own pronouns rather than
it Yeah, noice, it's definitely a girl, all right. Cool.
So we got another email from a guy named Tony
and very happy that he listens to the show, and
he was applauding our tariff discussion, which, by the way,
a different person wrote in and said, basically he won't
(05:31):
be buying a Lamborghini revwlto because of the tariffs. Now
he thinks that's going to hold him.
Speaker 1 (05:36):
Wa wait, did I miss that email? I don't think
I saw that one. Yeah, that was, oh, I know,
from from James. Yeah, yes, from James. You know.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
I feel like, if you can, if you can plock
down for a Lamborghini Revvelto, it's not going to matter
to you. If it's ten percent more, twenty percent more. Well,
maybe I'm wrong.
Speaker 1 (05:56):
I think that's what Ferrari is also banking on. You know,
they're going to charge a percent more I think across
the board, and they're assuming people will pick up the slack. Also,
I have an Ineos grunadier this week. I have the
field master and I know I was I can't wait
to talk about that. But they they also said they
were going to charge slightly more, but they don't, you know,
(06:17):
to to manage with the tariff increase. But they didn't
think that would be you know that that won't put
off their buyers.
Speaker 2 (06:23):
All right, can you not talk about the Ineos grenade?
Speaker 1 (06:26):
I could talk about it, okay, good, I just didn't
want to derail well.
Speaker 2 (06:29):
I just wanted to ask one thing because yeah, getting
back to the emails, the list of emails, Tony writes
in and says thanks for the terror discussions. But also
he and his wife are going to air and Water
next week. And I was thinking what is air and water?
Speaker 1 (06:42):
But you know, so Aaron water is from the folks
who do left to Colt and this is it's not
left to Colt. It's modern more modern cars too. It's
April twenty sixth Saturday, and I believe Long Beach. I
(07:03):
believe it's at the fair grounds.
Speaker 2 (07:06):
Is that Long Beach like is that in California? Oh?
Speaker 1 (07:08):
Sorry, Yes, that's in That is in California. It's at
Oh it's at the Orange County Fair and Events Center.
The locations change every year, but it's it's honestly a
big Porsche party. That's what That's what people need to know.
It's a big Porsche party. Left to Cole is this ongoing,
sort of rotating show of classic vintage porschees air and
(07:32):
water is sort of like a shoot off of that,
featuring historic and modern cars, race and street cars. It's
just a Porsche car show.
Speaker 2 (07:45):
I get it, so I won't nail the pronunciation either,
But loft Colt is air cooled.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
Right, exactly?
Speaker 2 (07:53):
Yes, Yes, Colt is cooled.
Speaker 1 (07:57):
Yes, and the people you know, you you instantly burnish
your Porsche street cred if if you.
Speaker 2 (08:05):
Say, what's your take on that? Because I always I've
been a fan of Porsche's since I was nine, right,
I'm fifty one, so forty two years and I love
I grew up with the nine six four, and I
then I loved the nine to nine three, but I
also liked the nine nine six when it came out,
(08:26):
and the nine nine seven. I was happy when they
went back to the regular headlights, and then I bought
a nine nine to one, which I thought was perfect.
I never really cared if there was a water cooler
in the car or not, Like, who cares if it's
air cool.
Speaker 1 (08:40):
A lot of people, Oh, I mean a lot of people.
That is the that is the defining characteristic. It's a
lot of people care. It's the defining it's it's the
break between vintage Porsches and modern Porsches. Put it that way.
It's it's just in the timeline that is the Berlin
Wall between the old stuff new stuff.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
It's weird because in my mind, the break is between
nine six four and nine nine three, because that's when
they with the nine nine three, they got rid of
the wings. You can no longer see the wings from
the driver's seat, right because the headline headlights are then
raked so far back, and the nine six four still
(09:20):
had like the big turtle eye headlights.
Speaker 1 (09:23):
Well, you're not far off because the nine nine three
was also the last air cooled portion in e life. Right.
Speaker 2 (09:28):
So you're so you're you're not my wall one generation.
Speaker 1 (09:31):
Yeah, yeah, completely, I don't think you're I don't think
you're off at all. And The funny thing is that car.
To me, the nine nine three looks so tiny now,
and the older it gets, the better it looks. I
didn't It's weird to say, but even like ten years ago,
I didn't necessarily love it. But now I'm like, oh,
(09:52):
it looks really cool and it reminds me of like
Michael Jordan, like when the when the Chicago Bulls were
winning everything. It's like that era of when Nike was
super cool, and I don't know, it's a good.
Speaker 2 (10:05):
I totally agree. Like the looks of the nine nine
to three when it came out, I loved it, and
then you know, after the nine nine seven when they
kind of went back to the sort of nine six
four form, I didn't like it as much because I
thought the headlights were too raked. But now as we
(10:26):
get further away, I like it. But in terms of
the motor right, I think it's always interesting because Harley
people are the same way, like they really care if
there's a radiator, like it really makes a huge difference.
It did on Ducatti monsters. Also, right from the S
two R to the S four RS. I don't know
(10:47):
why people get so up in arms about throwing a
radiator on a motor like, especially if you can get
more horsepower out of it, why does it matter it's
still naturally aspirated.
Speaker 1 (10:58):
You know, It's got to be a mix of nostalgia
and also a deep sense that somehow things that are
mechanical and analog are more authentic than things that are
more technologically advanced. And I've been thinking about this a lot.
Just as we go deeper and deeper into the world
of AI and social media and we get farther away
(11:20):
from humanity, from human everything from human creation, human thought,
human interaction, human skill and design and attention, I think
I think it's all just this sense that as we
move further down this road of virtual reality and computerized everything,
(11:44):
some people like the thought of maintaining a closer connection
to truly mechanical and analog tech. I don't know things,
what do you think?
Speaker 2 (11:55):
Well, is that nuts? No? I totally.
Speaker 1 (11:57):
I've been agreeing about that, and I'm not saying it's rational,
Like when we're talking about radiators and motorcycles.
Speaker 2 (12:05):
Yeah, because there's nothing digital about right, Well, a water
cooled Porscha engine, it's still it still doesn't need any computers,
right Necessarily, you could still have carbureted sure water cooled engine.
So I just I don't know, I get it, especially
with motorcycles because I wouldn't want to Harley that's liquid
(12:27):
cooled either. But with Porscha's I don't care as much.
I the air cooling isn't the problem, and I don't
even care as much if the steering is electronic. But
it starts when you start moving further and further in
that direction. It does bother me.
Speaker 1 (12:42):
And I do think it's it's it's like it's an
emotional thing. It's not necessarily rational all the time. So
the nine nine three was so interesting too because that
was fifty years basically of air cool technology. So that
was the last and then when they switched to the
nine ninety six, which, by the way, everyone hated the
in addition to just hating the idea of water cooled engines,
(13:03):
hated the headlights, which we should discuss, Matt. I mean
people love them, people, especially with these old brands like
Harley Davidson you mentioned and Portia, and also I think
Corvette goes there too. People just hate change in general,
like no, like the new thing of anything instantly is
gonna get a lot of hate to some of these
iconic shapes.
Speaker 2 (13:22):
It's to some extent, it's true. And by the way,
I hate the nine nine six headlights and I will
always hate it. I will always hate them. I don't
care if collectors say, like now is the time, like
Ted Gooshu goes out and buys a nine nine six Turbo,
so we all should. I do not like it, and
I why not?
Speaker 1 (13:43):
But why not?
Speaker 2 (13:43):
If they look so plastically there's just too much junk,
you know, dripping into the body. I don't love the
as I say, the rake of the nine nine three headlights,
but at least they're round, you know. Yeah, the nine
become like this melted jelly bean that all SUV shapes
(14:05):
are now, you know. And I just don't like it
at all. I don't care if it's water cooled. I'm
glad that they take a step forward in that kind
of It's not really technology, is it. I guess it
is technology and that sort of engineering, but yeah, I don't.
I was so happy when they went back.
Speaker 1 (14:22):
I was gonna say, I feel like Porsche probably would
never admit this, but their actions after the nine to
ninety six sort of might have proved that they did
agree with the general kids.
Speaker 2 (14:32):
By the way, the nine nine seven I've always changed.
I've always thought that nine nine to seven is so
cool because they made that, they made that compromise, they
went back to the original roundheadlights. But they continue to
develop what essentially was a nine nine to six. Right,
That's that generation lasted for thirteen years. So if you
get a nine nine to seven, you're getting the end
(14:55):
of that. You know, attempt at perfect at perfection for
nine to eleven, and they they they came so far,
they did so well. I think everything is so sordid.
And that is the last nine to eleven that actually
has mechanical steering. There's no computerized steering. There's an actual handbrake.
I mean to me, that is the the ultimate analog
(15:20):
nine to eleven, before they went to a stupid little
button that you push to put on the emergency brake,
and before they went to electric steering, when you could
really feel every pebble under your tires.
Speaker 1 (15:32):
You say that, but I have to say, you know,
I yeah, it's a great car. I'm not gonna I'm
not gonna argue. I'm like, I literally just looked googled
photos of it. I don't like you.
Speaker 2 (15:44):
The nine seven also doesn't have that huge set of
stack that goes through the middle of the car, you know.
Speaker 1 (15:49):
But the funny thing is this car feels nostalgic to
get into, Like when when I get into ours, it
feels it feels old, and it's not that old a car,
which one, you know, the nine ninety seven, Yeah, the
nine ninety seven. Yeah, it's not that old a car.
You know.
Speaker 2 (16:07):
It feels like a classic though, because of this sort of.
Speaker 1 (16:10):
Feels it does it still feels really analog to your point.
And then when you get in a nine nine one
that does feel to me modern, that is definitely a
break a break point, I would say, yes, And like
the nine to eleven, you're right about that in the
nine eleven timeline because a nine nine to one, that's
the car we drove to Moab in a day and
it was kind of just fine.
Speaker 2 (16:31):
Yeah, well, I still think it's a it's a it's
a perfect nine to eleven. It just is a little
bit more electronic. But there are some huge benefits to
a nine to nine to one. That was they have
three point eight The three point eight liter in line
six is the biggest sort of non GT car that
you could get uh with a naturally aspirated motor and
(16:56):
a stick, because that GTS is like the perfect GTS.
You can get a stick, it's a three point eight.
You can get the Burmester like everything is is nice.
And and now you now with the GTS you have
a turbo, and now you have a hybrid turbo and
there's no stick anymore.
Speaker 1 (17:11):
I don't I don't think that's wrong.
Speaker 2 (17:13):
And they don't have analog gauges. They don't have analog gauge.
They've got it.
Speaker 1 (17:17):
They've got a screen that looks like an analog gauge. Matt,
come on, huge, I'm all about the right tool for
the job. And I we've told this story before, but
I but the nine to nine to one really changed
both our minds about you know, it's a use it's
a modern, usable car that you're gonna want to use
when you don't want to use an older, more analog.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
By the way, I don't think I don't always think
new or change is bad. This year is the first
year that Harley Davidson's in the Cruiser the Softail lineup
have had traction control and ride modes.
Speaker 1 (17:53):
Oh, how's that?
Speaker 2 (17:54):
Going, and Yeah, I talked to like my my dealer
buddy in Connecticut. He he doesn't like that because he thinks, like,
you don't need rider modes, but okay, don't use the
rider mode. It's like, who cares. It's been throttle by
wire for a long time. So I'm glad they put
rider modes. I'm glad they have cruise control. I'm glad
they have traction control because they're all about making maximum
(18:16):
torque to the rear wheel, right, and if you have
maximum torque to the rear wheel and no traction control,
that's no bueno when it rains a little bit.
Speaker 1 (18:26):
Yeah, I mean to me, well, first of all, does
that new technology add to the weight of the bike.
Speaker 2 (18:33):
I don't think it's a Harley Davidson, so heavier is better.
No one's trying to lightweight a Harley Davidson.
Speaker 1 (18:40):
For me, don't. I don't want anything that adds to
the weight. But in general, I agree with you that, Hey,
if you don't like it, just don't.
Speaker 2 (18:45):
Use it in a dou Katie. You do want as
light as possible in a Portia. I guess they're still
aiming for light, although they get heavier and heavier. But
in way Harley a weight is a is a benefit, waight.
Speaker 1 (18:57):
I disagree even in any with the Harley's I'm like,
it's already heavy. I don't want to add anything else.
It can't handle it.
Speaker 2 (19:04):
By the way, while Warren weight, let me just tell
you my thoughts on the Cadillac Escalade IQ. So I
have been waiting for at least a year, probably longer
for this because I think it's such a beautiful design
and I mean I think it's gorgeous and so much room.
Obviously it's an escalator, so there's so much room inside.
I'm a big person. I like a lot of room.
(19:24):
I have kids with car seats that career facing, so
I need that extra space. And I just love a
huge land yacht. But this is one of the first
vehicles I've driven where I'm like, yeah, I can feel
the weight. That's a little too much. Weight is very heavy, IQ.
(19:47):
I feel like it's crushing the pavement as.
Speaker 1 (19:49):
I rolled down mad No.
Speaker 2 (19:51):
I mean it's very very that is.
Speaker 1 (19:54):
That is the opposite. When I was driving that in
San Francisco up and down the cove, it was light
as a feather. I mean, you just need to go faster.
Speaker 2 (20:03):
No, it's very fast. But if you put it in
like the V mode, you can push a V button
on the steering wheel and that puts it into the
I guess ultimate sporty driving mode, and then you mash
down the accelerator. It's very difficult to keep it under control.
That is that I didn't have that so quick, and
I'm just.
Speaker 1 (20:22):
That's it's quick. Yes, it's quick. I think the steering
was so light, so good, so nimble and agile. I
was really impressive. It has rear wheel steering just like
the GMC Hummer. It can it can do the crab walk.
It will literally crab walk you into a valet spot.
I mean, I was like, this thing feels light as
a feather. I think you just need to drive faster.
Speaker 2 (20:45):
I don't know if I just wasn't thinking about it
when I drove the Hummer, because I really enjoyed the
Hummer me too, And I really enjoyed the GMC Sierra
ev there electric pickup truck, and I imagine those have
similar battery size and are probably almost as heavy, if
not as heavy. The Cadillac is the best of the
(21:06):
three of them in terms of envh You know in
terms of noise, vibration, and harshness, they have absolutely perfected it,
but to me, it just felt so and feels I'm
still driving today so heavy, especially under hard acceleration. It's
squirmy and I I don't know. The only other complaint
(21:27):
I have, which I have to say, can every time
I touch one of the doors to open or close it.
I don't understand how they made those doors. It feels
like it feels like they're trying to give me a
workout by opening or closing the doors. There's a resistance
there where if you want to open it you have
to automatic.
Speaker 1 (21:48):
Well that's the audit. You're supposed to let the door
open for you.
Speaker 2 (21:51):
It doesn't open all the way though, and even if
you're on a line in a driveway, it won't even
stay open all the way. It's like my challenger, the
door just wants to close.
Speaker 1 (22:00):
I do agree it is. It's one of those automatic,
like semi autonomous doors, and they they're not my favorite.
I do feel like they get and that's an example
of technology just getting in the way of getting on
with your life. Because I actually agree with that, it's
kind of annoying.
Speaker 2 (22:17):
I don't know why. I'm sure there are big differences
between this vehicle and the g Wagon, but the g
Wagon doors.
Speaker 1 (22:24):
Are perfect tiny. Well, I do agree with that.
Speaker 2 (22:27):
The door is much smaller.
Speaker 1 (22:28):
I mean maybe they're a little stores, but those g
Wagon doors are about eighteen inches long. You know that's true.
But let's talk about the size of this thing. Because
it's nineteen feet long, it's like six and a half
feet tall. I do agree that when driving that vehicle
in urban environments it's not the best. I would much
(22:50):
rather use it as a conveyance that someone else is
driving me in because it's to me it was challenging
just because of its size. You know, I do agree
with that. I want to know what you think of
the big dashboard, those huge, like fifty five inched curve
screen inside. Did you like that? Did you not?
Speaker 2 (23:09):
Lie? Well? So I love everything else about the vehicle.
I really love. There are some small things I would
change in the dashboard, which you have to I think
be driving it to kind of understand. So when you
put on a turn signal, it shows you the camera
view of the left or the right. You can turn
it off so you don't have to see it. But
I like it because I can tell it shows me
(23:30):
what's in my blind spot. The only problem is the
camera image comes up in the middle above the center stack,
and I'd like that camera image to come up right
in front of me steering. You can switch it, Oh,
can you move it over?
Speaker 1 (23:43):
Yes, you can move it over. Because I had the
same exact experience as you. I was trying to follow
a mapped navigation route and every time I would turn
on my indicator to follow the navigation, that camera would
come on and cancel out the navigation. So I was
completely lost. And then I figure out, Oh, I can
move the camera view into the space in front of
(24:04):
the steering wheel. But to your point, it took me
like ten minutes to figure out how to do that,
and again it wasn't fun.
Speaker 2 (24:12):
I well, I like that. I mean, Kia and Hyundai,
obviously at a much lower price point, have been doing
this for a long time. I think it's good technology,
but initially it ruined my navigation experience as well, until
I put the navigation in front of me. Anyway, that's
good to know that I could change it around. It's
not one hundred percent intuitive, but I think once you
understand that system, it works well. And I also think
(24:35):
there's no Apple car Play, and this is GM I
think has done a great job of this. I don't
miss Apple car Play in these vehicles. I think it's
not necessary because everything else works so well. The navigation
is Google Maps already, which is as good as you're
going to get for navigation, and the suite of apps
(24:56):
or whatever that they have covers pretty much everything.
Speaker 1 (25:00):
Yeah, they're going to be offering Dolby autmost soon.
Speaker 2 (25:03):
The audio system I think is pretty good. The AKG
system in mine, it's still not fantastic, and it's you know,
it's one hundred and fifty thousand dollars vehicle, the one
at least as as as optioned when the one I'm driving.
Speaker 1 (25:19):
I think it starts about one twenty seven, which is
forty grand more than the gas powered Escalade.
Speaker 2 (25:26):
I well, for me, the one I'm driving, Uh, it's
one forty eight three point fifty with with all one
hundred and fifty dollars of options. Because it's the top
the sport too, right, I feel like for that price
I should expect like a concert quality huh stereo system,
(25:47):
and it's just not quite there, but it's still better
than almost anything else.
Speaker 1 (25:50):
Well at most is coming to the Escalade. The weird
thing about it is they didn't launch it with Dolby Atmost.
Not that that's the be all and end all, but
I think it would help get They also.
Speaker 2 (26:00):
Didn't launch it with the automatic Like apparently you're going
to be able to open and close the doors with
the screen after a software update, but they haven't done
that yet.
Speaker 1 (26:10):
Yeah, there are a couple of little yeah, a couple
of little things that maybe when they arrive, will make
it a better experience. I think, all in though, this
is a car you could be proud to own. It's
a car I'd be proud to own, be proud to
see in, you know, in terms of arrivals, Oh, if
you're at an event, for sure. I mean it's and
(26:32):
there aren't many American vehicles I would say that about.
Speaker 2 (26:35):
I've death Well, I know, I think their whole line
of SUVs, like the the GMC Yukon Denaley, similar thing
the Cadillac Escalade V the super charge gas engine option.
I have had people walk up to me on the
street or in parking lots and say, oh, that's a
nice car.
Speaker 1 (26:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:56):
So there's some very there's some very cool tech. Also,
like to open the trunk, you just touch the Cadillac
emblem on the back, so there's no button on the trunk.
Speaker 1 (27:07):
Hold your hand over secret knowledge.
Speaker 2 (27:09):
Yeah, very cool stuff. So I was excited. I am
excited to drive it, and it's so awesome to have
as a family vehicle.
Speaker 1 (27:17):
Does it fit in your garage?
Speaker 2 (27:19):
It barely fits in my garage. And I need to
have it in the garage because I have to charge
it myself if I take it to a charging station.
I went to electrify America because I had gotten it
down to twenty percent and I spent fifty five minutes
getting it back to ninety percent. So in fifty five minutes,
I got that's good. That's an hour if you're on
(27:42):
a road trip, well to and guess what it costs?
Speaker 1 (27:47):
How much?
Speaker 2 (27:48):
Take a guess fifty five minutes of charging an electrify
America five dollars. Nope, yes again us you don't charge vehicles. No,
one hundred eleven dollars. What hundred and eleven dollars to
charge at electrify America from twenty to ninety.
Speaker 1 (28:05):
I know you're supposed to dump found it. I've dumpound it.
Speaker 2 (28:08):
Yeah, what it was very.
Speaker 1 (28:10):
You might as well be filling up a Rolls Royce
gas tank because that's about what it costs for a
fill up.
Speaker 2 (28:15):
My wife, do you put it on the company card? No?
I paid for it myself.
Speaker 1 (28:19):
What I'm truly flabbergasted. I was thinking five ten dollars
the thing.
Speaker 2 (28:26):
So, if I'm driving to Ohio, it has a ton
of range to begin with.
Speaker 1 (28:29):
Like over over four hundred and fifty miles of range.
I think that's the industry leader.
Speaker 2 (28:34):
That's four and fifteenth very. If you're driving conservative.
Speaker 3 (28:37):
Like a granny and not running put it into V
and I'm doing like basically ninety miles an hour into
So but if I'm going to Ohio, that means I
have to fill up at least once.
Speaker 2 (28:49):
So that's an hour stop and one hundred and ten
bucks to do it.
Speaker 1 (28:53):
This is not the promise of EV's that we've been sold.
Speaker 2 (28:56):
I'd rather have the Escalade V. I'd rather have the GM,
the Yukondinality. I'd rather have the Chevy Tahoe z R two.
You know, all right, let me just ask you a
little bit about another SUV that's a completely different idea
(29:17):
and use so you drove the Ineos Grenadier. I have
not driven one, and I really want to because they
look awesome and I think they have done some really
great engineering for that and choices for outsourcing. So what
do you think?
Speaker 1 (29:31):
Yes, so it's a fascinating vehicle. Obviously we've all seen
them around. A ton of people have asked me about it.
I've got the Ineos Grinnandier field Master, which is a
special edition that is in partnership with Bell Staff. So
it has which I feel like you might like, Matt,
(29:54):
like a badge with like the Bell Staff logo on it,
and it's called the Field Master. I think there's a
bell Staff jacket called.
Speaker 2 (30:02):
The field very famous.
Speaker 1 (30:05):
Yes, yeah, and so so I had my disclaimers that
I've really only had it for a day and a half.
I've got it for the week, so I haven't done
a ton with it yet. But I can tell you
early on the steering is the steering turning radius is terrible.
The steering is very, very loose and all over the place. Obviously,
(30:28):
this is a vehicle that's tooled for off road driving, so.
Speaker 2 (30:32):
That is the steering is the one thing that worries me.
I haven't driven it.
Speaker 1 (30:35):
The steering is a challenge.
Speaker 2 (30:37):
It just doesn't automatically center like a normal modern car.
Speaker 1 (30:40):
It really doesn't. It's it's it's all over the place.
But one thing I really like about it is the
interior is just big buttons. There are there's there is
a small screen in the center console for sinking Bluetooth basically,
but it's just big buttons to adjust climate and sound
(31:01):
and fans and it's I mean, it's like the idea is,
if you're wearing gloves, you can still like punch the button,
which I love.
Speaker 2 (31:08):
It's read necessary no reading.
Speaker 1 (31:10):
No, if you're ninety years old driving the thing, you'll
it'll work great. It's too big, too tall to fit
in the company parking garage, so I'm valeting it out front.
Or actually this morning I just parked it in front
and walked away because the valet wasn't there. So, you know,
I hope it's still there. At the end of the day,
we'll find out.
Speaker 2 (31:28):
I think that's such a So the steering, I wonder,
do you think it's the kind of thing you would
get used to if this was your vehicle, would you?
Speaker 1 (31:36):
Yeah? I do, I do, and especially I actually my
good friend Schmuley, who is a very intense off roader.
He's done King of the Hammers many times, goes off
roading almost every have you met you, Mettion Moulley, you
know smelly we'll have batal. Yes, yeah, he had one
for a while and he loved it, and he is
(31:57):
telling me that off road it is exceptional. He wishes
they would make a manual version. But so you know,
from my off road driving experts, maybe they do offer
offer a version. But Schmoley really gave it his seal
of approval, and I do trust his input. I would say,
(32:18):
you know, the price on this is like eighty thousand dollars,
which I was shocked. I thought they were a lot
more expensive. That seems like a very fair price.
Speaker 2 (32:28):
Yeah, and considering how expensive cars are these days, I agree.
I think so. I've also heard that it's obviously it's
it's built for overlanding, right, that's yes, that's the thing.
They don't make a manual, unfortunately, but it would to me,
it would make sense, it would make sense.
Speaker 1 (32:45):
I think the field Master they're sort of positioning as
slightly more lifestyle slash luxury, but it's still pretty rugged.
I mean, it's cool. It has like a target top
almost where you can pop out some glass inserts in
the ceiling. It's massive in the back, it's got a
ton of storage. It's fun, it's cool. I'm I'm looking
(33:07):
forward to discovering it more this week.
Speaker 2 (33:10):
I really am excited to read your story. You'll write
on that on bloomber dot com and then it'll be
in Pursuits. I have been fascinated by it ever since
I heard about the idea which which they came up
with apparently at the Grenadier, which is that's one of
the tiniest pubs in London. And then I love the
(33:32):
pub in Belgravia. It's like the most classic, like old
school pub. There's room for like four or five people
in there. And I guess the billionaire founder of Ineos.
Speaker 1 (33:43):
Said Jim Ratcliff.
Speaker 2 (33:45):
He said, why are they doing away with the Landrover Defender.
I think he tried to buy what the yeah? Is
that right? He tried to buy the Defender sort of
to make it himself, and land Rover said no, and
so he just did it anyway.
Speaker 1 (33:59):
He wanted to buy the tooling from Jaguar land Rover
to try to complete yes his own the defender again
and that he was told no, so he decided.
Speaker 2 (34:08):
But he made some really good outsourcing decisions. For example,
the motor is a BMW six Yes, yeah, which is
unbeatable motor, absolute classic.
Speaker 1 (34:18):
And I believe that Jim Ratcliffe, of course he owns
some soccer teams. I believe he owns Bell Staff, if
not all of it, part of it, so he you know.
Speaker 2 (34:30):
Oh really yes, so which, by the way, you and
McGregor I think wears the He wears a field Master
like jacket in his motorcycle series Long.
Speaker 1 (34:37):
Way Up, makes sense, makes complete sense. My point being,
this is a very wealthy man who is not depending
on ineos to like for his survival to make a
lot of money, which I think is good. You know,
I don't like these firms that are sort of betting
everything on doing a resto mode type vehicle. It's better
(34:58):
to come at it like this sort of his pet project,
and he can take the time to do it right
and to spend the money to do it right.
Speaker 2 (35:05):
A great time to transition to someone who does need
his new business to work. We talked to Bill Melvin,
who has bought the Buell brand or the Buell Motorcycle
Technology from essentially came out of Harley Davidson and then
bought the brand from Eric Buell himself, and he's starting
the business, starting production of his super Cruiser motorcycle in
(35:30):
the fall in Michigan. We had a chance to sit
down with him. Let's listen to that interview. Bill tell
us first of all about how you got the business.
Speaker 4 (35:37):
Yeah, well, we have a buy cell company liquid asset,
and we have been doing a lot of deals in
the motorsports business, working with OEM's distributors, some race schools,
and had opportunity to acquire an amazing product.
Speaker 5 (35:52):
Nearly the core of the product at that point is
our V twin.
Speaker 2 (35:55):
Right.
Speaker 4 (35:55):
It's a one hundred and eighty five horsepower one hundred
and seventy five horsepower depending on the fuel set up,
and it's very lightweight. It's a V twin we build
in America, but it's very you know, it's a Ducati
style engine, right, so it's got it loves to live
at seven thousand rpm. Right, Like when you get to
seven thousand, that's where it starts to breathe. And then
(36:16):
from there, like everything just turns weightless and you turn
the throttle up to eleven thousand and it just rips
right like you got to experience. So it was really
cool thing to have that, But we didn't have the brand.
The brand was still owned by Harley Davison at that point, so.
Speaker 2 (36:31):
Harley basically I was reading about this earlier, so Harley
basically let it die. They wrote it down to zero
after the Great Financial Crisis, but they still held the asset.
Speaker 5 (36:41):
Correct.
Speaker 1 (36:41):
Yeah, why did they let it go? Just out of curiosity?
Speaker 4 (36:46):
I mean, it was the performance brand of American motorcycles
and they were, you know, wanted to focus just on
the heavy cruisers. So as they were doing that, they
let it let it go. And we feel fortunate that
we were able to pick it up through some great
attorneys and a little bit the divine intervention, put it
back with the high performance engine, and then we started
working on like what's next.
Speaker 5 (37:05):
We got to build a team.
Speaker 4 (37:06):
We've built an amazing team. We wanted to move it
to Michigan, the motor state where you have all the
resources of engineering and motors and gears and and gasoline
and horsepower.
Speaker 2 (37:16):
But how did you have the idea for the cruiser?
Because Buel was making as you say, sport bikes.
Speaker 1 (37:21):
Right.
Speaker 2 (37:21):
The idea was low center of gravity. They had the
fuel and the frame, they had the They were the
first motorcycle I saw with the exhaust under the bike,
you know for at street bike. Yep, they were race bikes.
So how did you say, like, oh, let me get
Rolling Sands to hard pivot to design a cruiser.
Speaker 5 (37:37):
It was a hard pivot.
Speaker 4 (37:38):
Yeah, while we were looking at the engine and the
platform and what could we first do with this high
performance platform that would also be more Americana, right. So
you look at the traditional styling of a cruiser, and
I thought, I want to have a traditional cruiser, steel tank,
steel frame, but package in our superbike. And so I thought,
who would be the best designer for this? I had
known Rolling Sands.
Speaker 1 (38:00):
Is the best designer.
Speaker 5 (38:01):
He is a yes, just a genius.
Speaker 4 (38:03):
So we had like a late night Friday phone call
and talked about the way it would come together, and
like a week later he sent over the sketch and
that was it.
Speaker 5 (38:12):
It was beautiful.
Speaker 1 (38:13):
Did you have a certain writer or certain mentality in
mind when you were talking with Roland about what to create,
because I'm very curious about what type of person is
going to be drawn to this bike besides Matt Who.
I think you're even surprised at how much you like it. Who.
Speaker 2 (38:28):
I was pretty surprised. I mean I knew I would
like it, and I've been following it since you guys
first unveiled it with Rolling Sands like years ago. But
I've been I don't know, I've been blown away by
the engine. Really, it makes this insane sound when you
chopped the throttle and the handling. It's just it reminds
(38:51):
me a lot of the KTM Super Duke when they
first came out with a twelve ninety, except for it
actually looks cool.
Speaker 4 (38:57):
So yeah, well that the coolness is really something that
Roland put into it, right. I mean, he's an artist
who's got a great designers. But you know, we wanted
to really go to the core of the American motorcycle
market and give the riders what they hadn't had for
that they've always wanted, right, They've been going to Ducati's
because that was the performance that they wanted. That was
(39:17):
the engine sound, that was the exhaust note that they
were looking for. But they couldn't have that performance in
an American style bike and So that was the vision
to create that Americana with a mule brand, a performance
brand that people know around the world, and you know,
put something together that no one's done before in the US.
Speaker 2 (39:34):
So tell me about I know you've taken a lot
of preorders. I think the idea is you pay a
thousand dollars to get on the list and then you're
eligible to buy it for like twenty five when it
comes out. So give us those details. How many preorders?
When are you going to start building it? When's the
first delivery?
Speaker 5 (39:50):
So we have a little over six thousand pre orders,
that's a lot.
Speaker 2 (39:54):
Yeah, our team has.
Speaker 5 (39:55):
Been cranking ahead.
Speaker 4 (39:56):
The cool thing is we've built that awesome team. They're
really energetic, passionate group about making a cool product, and
they've been just cranking away on all the development steps
and we do final testing, emissions, EPA, CARB, get all
those things buttoned up, and we start production this fall.
Speaker 1 (40:13):
Okay, So are you going to be hit by tariffs?
I mean I have to think, I have to think
right now, this is a great time to be launching
an American made bike. How affected are you going to
be by tariffs?
Speaker 5 (40:24):
Yeah, we'll be a little bit affected.
Speaker 4 (40:26):
On our components, because we do have some foreign components,
but on the new bike we would really focus for
the last three years to have more US content. So
eighty five percent of the new components are US.
Speaker 1 (40:38):
Supersis that's high? Yeah, that's really high.
Speaker 5 (40:41):
And we've been focused on that for a while.
Speaker 4 (40:43):
But if there was like a large tariff on European
motorcycles or European exports, that would be helpful for us,
right because then you know, the similar you know, performance
du Katti or BMW is going to be you know,
twenty five or fifty percent more and ours will have
like a you know, five percent in.
Speaker 1 (41:01):
Oh, you're smiling, so yeah, like that.
Speaker 2 (41:05):
So I have to think the elephant in the room
is the Harley Davidson Lowrider S just because they also
build that as their performance cruiser. Obviously, it's a very
different thing in terms of the motor and actually the
seating position. Although they're similar in that they're both kind
of mid footpegs and kind of a raised riser, they
(41:31):
are actually a little bit different. But I was talking
with Shannon at the Moto GP, who is your supply
chain director, and I don't know how much we can
talk about this, but she said, Harley Davidson's components are
like thirty to forty US. Yeah, they had a lot
of that sounds much lower than I would have expected.
Speaker 4 (41:50):
Yeah, and they moved a lot of their manufacturing overseas,
which is, you know, a challenge that they're going through
right now. For us, we're building them in Michigan. But
you know, it's a it's a cool thing that we've
been building. It's a interesting vibe that we're been getting
from the customers, right, I mean, we're getting all these
young customers who are coming to us saying, you know,
(42:11):
this is what we wanted, right, we want a US product.
We're willing to pay a little bit more for it.
We're excited that you guys are focused on US supply
chain and we've been building like this super cool, energetic
vibe with our team. Like if you go into our factory,
like it's almost a reality show.
Speaker 5 (42:26):
You got all these you know.
Speaker 2 (42:27):
People, just you should make it, right, I mean, and
it will be then basically the only really American made motorcycle.
I mean not just assembled, but you're going to have
more than half of your components sourced from the US.
You're going to build it in the US, and I
don't think that Indian and Harley then will meet that criteria.
Speaker 4 (42:50):
I'm not sure exactly what their percentages are. But we've
been really focused on it, right. I mean, it's it's
hard to do, it's expensive. You know, we've we've been
you know, raising some capital with some you know investment family,
friends and family that want to be aligned in building
this American product. But it's great to have that support
from the customers because they're pulling us ahead, right And
those those riders are like these core riders out in
(43:12):
LA that are you know, the diner bros.
Speaker 1 (43:14):
They're insane.
Speaker 4 (43:15):
They are I They're insane, super passionate about the types
of product they're riding. The low rider s just really
doesn't give them what they want, right, Like it's it's heavy,
it's got good torque, but as much as your supercruiser
away it's just about five hundred pounds, so as the
low riders is like over six hundred, like six fifty
or something or six seventy. They're horse powers like one
(43:35):
twenty or one hundred and seventy five. They have a
little bit more torque, but we've got you know, very
quick speed so you turn the throttle. It's got one
hundred and one pounds of torque on undred five hundred
pounds bike.
Speaker 5 (43:46):
It just rips.
Speaker 1 (43:47):
Can I just ask a provocative question. I'm not going
to ask if you considered making this new bike electric
because it doesn't fit at all with what you're describing
you want the brand to be. But do you think
there is a place for electric bikes in the broader
world of motorcycles and what is their future? Or is
that something that you're just like, I.
Speaker 2 (44:09):
Think I just jump in for a second. It is
funny that you're the second person to ask this question
of Bill today. Your interest was peaked in motorcycles because
you were tinkering in your garage and electric bikes before
any existed, right.
Speaker 4 (44:21):
Yes, Yeah, I started riding when I was four. My
dad had a huge collection of rare bikes and he
was a historian and a deal maker, and so I
was riding like all the bikes you could ever imagine,
similar to what me and magnets are driving all kinds
of different cars.
Speaker 5 (44:33):
I had that growing up, So I was fortunate.
Speaker 2 (44:35):
And then you're into bikes already, but you did get
into electric propulsion.
Speaker 4 (44:39):
Started working on electric vehicles, was testing some of the
new electric motorcycles that were out in the market, was
starting to design an electric cycle, had the website electriccycle
dot com, was working on some electric scooters. But really
what I was seeing is that the power to wait
isn't quite there. So the weight of the battery and
the power that you need out of it is too
heavy for two wheels. So to have a comparable motorcycle
(45:01):
similar to what we have with any kind of similar
range is going to be like seven hundred pounds, right,
eight hundred pounds, and then when you get done going
eighty miles ninety miles, you have to sit there for
an hour and a half. So the charge factor was
a big factor as well. And it's shown in the
industry right. A lot of the electric companies have been
having issues with their sales and you know customer satisfaction.
Speaker 2 (45:21):
Well, all you have to do is watch the long
way up and realize it's just not the right way
to travel, but it could be someday, right, and it
is fun for those short zips. I wonder about track
use for your Supercruiser. Have people been taking down the track,
because that's instantly what I wanted to do. We did
go on the track.
Speaker 4 (45:39):
Yeah, so we went out with a pro rider, and
we have our superbike, the Hammerhead, which is a Ducatti
level superbike, and we have the hammer of the Supercruiser
right there with it. And it was like one second
off on lap times, so it rips on the track.
It has a lean angle similar to a superbike, but
it doesn't look like one, right, So it's it's kind
(45:59):
of need to have that. You can go down the road,
you can go down the beach, you can cruise, but
you can go on the track. You can rip, you
can stunt it, you can do wheelaser. It does all
kinds of fun stuff as you've seen in some of this.
Speaker 2 (46:10):
Good because I don't want to be a power ranger anymore,
you know now, I just want to be a angel.
Speaker 1 (46:15):
Yes, I love it.
Speaker 2 (46:17):
That was Bill Melvin, the owner and CEO of Buell Motorcycles,
and suffice it to say, I'm very excited about that.
Speaker 1 (46:28):
Me too, Me too. I think, I mean it makes sense.
I hope. I hope they can pull it off.
Speaker 2 (46:33):
I really do as well. I think they're one of
those businesses, you know, you take a ton of orders
like a singer during the pandemic or probably icon happened
to them, rebology, and then you've got to turn around
and make them. You got to execute, and it'll be
it'll be amazing to see if they can execute and
(46:54):
make money, right, because it's expensive to produce stuff in America.
Speaker 1 (46:58):
It's so I mean the tariffs, the tariffs, I mean,
I don't think. I don't know if they're ready.
Speaker 2 (47:07):
Well, fortunately they don't care that much about these arrests
because they've sourced most of their supply chain in America. Yeah,
what do you So you're driving the Ineos Grenadier. We're
gonna hear more about that. We're gonna get your your
article on it. Oh, by the way, one of the
coolest things about the Ineos Grenadier, well maybe not the coolest,
but something a flare touch that I love. Yes, have
you configured a vehicle online?
Speaker 1 (47:28):
Oh? No, No.
Speaker 2 (47:29):
When you can figure the vehicle, you can choose the
color of the frame under the body. So I like
to configure a blue Grenadier and I pick a red
frame and then you can just barely see it peeking
out under the vehicle, like you almost have to know
to look what a tease? Don't you think that's cool.
Speaker 1 (47:48):
Yes, I think that's very cool. It's like stitching on
the inside of a suit or exactly can't leg or.
Speaker 2 (47:55):
Yeah, you know, like the British guys are always wearing
red socks yea, even though they're dressed in a dressed
to the nines in a suit in the city and
and then like you can only see it when they
sit down on the tube or whatever. Real Yeah, very cool.
What else have you got going on? You say, Aaron
Water is coming out this week?
Speaker 1 (48:12):
Water is Saturday, guess Yeah, planning on it, Yeah, Saturday morning.
And that's kind of you know, Formula one Miami is
coming up. I'm not going to go, but we've got
some guests for the show coming up that are going
to come on around F one Miami, and I'm gonna
have some coverage on that coming up. So that'll be
good something to look forward to. And yeah, that's kind
(48:35):
of it. You know. New York was so fun last week.
This week I'm focusing on, you know, grounding, going to
ground in La nice, chilling out, Yeah.
Speaker 2 (48:45):
Working on yourself a little bit there.
Speaker 1 (48:47):
Yeah, yeah, you know, walk the dog, get a coffee,
try to say chill, you know, try to go for
a day or two without having a cocktail or two.
Speaker 2 (48:56):
You know, just get it too, you know my whoop
thing that I wear, this whoop. The last few days
have not been good in terms of recovery. I don't know,
like I'm just I'm all over the place. Maybe too
much sugar, not enough sleep, not enough exercise. So I
(49:16):
really need to ground myself as well.
Speaker 1 (49:18):
Yes, yeah, you.
Speaker 2 (49:19):
Know, play some sports, maybe talk to my pickleball, talk
to my shrink a little bit, and just get back
to do some breathing exercises completely.
Speaker 1 (49:30):
I love the breathing. Get some incense.
Speaker 2 (49:32):
Oh.
Speaker 1 (49:32):
I found some really good incense in New York this trip, Matt.
I know you're an incense I like it. I found some.
I've been burning the incense.
Speaker 2 (49:41):
Scent.
Speaker 1 (49:43):
There's a there's a scent called, Oh I'm gonna butcher
it coat desser. It's by a reb you know that company,
a reb or Rebay.
Speaker 2 (49:54):
No incense from street vendors, and there's not a brain necessarily, Yes, exactly.
Speaker 1 (50:02):
Nag Champa. I like that too.
Speaker 2 (50:04):
Yeah of college. Yeah, dog Champa smells like an n
y U dorm room.
Speaker 1 (50:09):
Yeah, you know, there's a there's a store on Elizabeth
Street called Love Adorn. That's got a great selection. I
highly reckon.
Speaker 2 (50:16):
All right, I'll go check.
Speaker 1 (50:17):
Out all sorts of instances. Oh, I should say, our
buddy Steve Serio's coming to LA and I'm going to
have dinner with him on Saturday.
Speaker 2 (50:25):
Oh nice, So we should get him back on the show.
Speaker 1 (50:27):
We should get him back on the show. You know,
I'm sure you'd be happy to talk about the summer auctions.
Speaker 2 (50:33):
Very cool. All right, Well we'll do that here next week.
Please tune in again and email us if you've got
anything that you want to talk about. I'm Matt Miller,
and
Speaker 1 (50:41):
I'm Hannah Elliott, and this is Bloomberg
Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio news. I'm Matt Miller and
I'm Hannah Elliott, and this is Hot Pursuit.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
All right, we have I'm very excited because we get
to play our Buell interview today.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
Yeah, with Bill Milvin.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Yeah, so you'll hear a little bit about starting a
business in America. It is a motorcycle business, not a
car business, but I think people still care.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
I think yeah, And the timing is fascinating because it's
an old brand but they're bringing it back and it's
mostly American, and yeah, I think the whole thing is fascinating.
I actually want to follow this story as it as
it unfolds.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
He's also a car lover. By the way, I went
to the auto show with him last week, which turned
out to be pretty cool.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
I went, I was going to ask you how that went.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
Yeah, it was fun because Magnus knew some important people,
including Brian Miller, whuns Manhattan Motor Cars. Then he introduced
me to Brian Miller, and then Brian gave me his
take on the whole tariff thing, which was I thought,
really fascinating. And you know, people write off these auto shows.
I do for sure. Because they're not as.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
There's not a lot of news broken for those of
us who are covering news, it's not news.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
It's not like it used to be. But I still
love seeing the cars. Like there was a Mustang GTD there,
which is absolutely gorgeous. The literalty was white with the
red and blue stripes and you could you can see
the shocks and in the suspension system in the back.
I just was dying.
Speaker 1 (01:46):
Yeah. I mean for people who haven't seen that car yet,
that's the perfect opportunity to see that car, because I mean,
it's it's a big deal. It still is a big deal,
even though it's you know, it's been out for a year.
It's a big deal. So if you haven't seen it,
it's worth going.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
Plus, I saw the Ford PR there and I was
begging him to let me. I was like, dude, is
there any chance I could drive this?
Speaker 1 (02:06):
Did you get a commitment?
Speaker 2 (02:07):
He said maybe at Lamont.
Speaker 1 (02:11):
Yeah, it's not not.
Speaker 2 (02:14):
We Also, I also want to talk a little bit
before we get into that stuff. I want to go
through the emails that we got and then need to
go through and then I want to talk about the
Cadillac Escalade IQ it's a big halt, like maybe ten
pounds worth of electric vehicle that you drove already and
(02:34):
I'm spending the week with now.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
Yes, by the way, before we jump in, are you
planning to turn on your camera met or do you
stay out?
Speaker 3 (02:43):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (02:43):
You know, I'd love to see your shining place.
Speaker 2 (02:45):
I will, I will turn it on.
Speaker 1 (02:47):
I'm talking to myself here.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
So obviously our listeners.
Speaker 1 (02:51):
There we go. There you are. You're still in your
You're still in your corporate corporate, Yeah, I get it.
We have to do that times.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
You've got the union jack on your.
Speaker 1 (03:03):
You know what this is. I'm so proud of it.
This is Kate Moss's collaboration with Topshop that she did
some years back. This is a reproduction of the John
Galliano union jack jacket that she wore on the cover
of Vogue back in the day, and the top Shop
recreated it. And I found this inn a vintage store
(03:25):
last week in New York for fifty bucks. Nice and
I'm loving it, so thank you for noticing.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
Nice. Very cool. You know what, why don't we talk
a little bit before we get into everything else. Let's
go through the emails, and one of them has to
one of them touches on textiles and clothing right our
ongoing discussion about Japanese denim. Dean wrote in and said
thanks very much for continuing on that thread. He says,
(03:55):
of course Magnus has firsthand knowledge of clothing production. All right,
So anyway, we do a pre shape people writing in
and our email address is hot Pursuit at Bloomberg dot net.
Speaker 1 (04:05):
Yeah, that right, Hot Pursuit at Bloomberg dot net. And
Dean know you are not the only idiot who names
all your vehicles for us to see in the email.
And we do appreciate you sending the photos.
Speaker 2 (04:19):
And do you nail it cars? Also?
Speaker 1 (04:21):
Do you? I don't know. No, I'm not a I'm
not a namer of cars at all. I never have
I go by color. I say, the red one. What
about you?
Speaker 2 (04:32):
You need your dor? No, I don't. When I was
a kid, we did our family cars like the blue
suede was my oh that's nice Volvo to forty gail
station wagon from nineteen eighty four. It was baby blue.
But no, I don't. I don't do that anymore. I
guess I would if if there was some reason, but
I just don't personify these things.
Speaker 1 (04:52):
No, I don't. I don't either. I don't think there's
anything wrong with that at all. It's just I personify
my dog. I think that's where I direct my humanization
of things.
Speaker 2 (05:04):
I'm glad you name your dog Willow.
Speaker 1 (05:06):
Yeah, Willow, she identifies as she her person.
Speaker 2 (05:11):
That's great that she has her own pronouns rather than
it Yeah, noice, it's definitely a girl, all right. Cool.
So we got another email from a guy named Tony
and very happy that he listens to the show, and
he was applauding our tariff discussion, which, by the way,
a different person wrote in and said, basically he won't
(05:31):
be buying a Lamborghini revwlto because of the tariffs. Now
he thinks that's going to hold him.
Speaker 1 (05:36):
Wa wait, did I miss that email? I don't think
I saw that one. Yeah, that was, oh, I know,
from from James. Yeah, yes, from James. You know.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
I feel like, if you can, if you can plock
down for a Lamborghini Revvelto, it's not going to matter
to you. If it's ten percent more, twenty percent more. Well,
maybe I'm wrong.
Speaker 1 (05:56):
I think that's what Ferrari is also banking on. You know,
they're going to charge a percent more I think across
the board, and they're assuming people will pick up the slack. Also,
I have an Ineos grunadier this week. I have the
field master and I know I was I can't wait
to talk about that. But they they also said they
were going to charge slightly more, but they don't, you know,
(06:17):
to to manage with the tariff increase. But they didn't
think that would be you know that that won't put
off their buyers.
Speaker 2 (06:23):
All right, can you not talk about the Ineos grenade?
Speaker 1 (06:26):
I could talk about it, okay, good, I just didn't
want to derail well.
Speaker 2 (06:29):
I just wanted to ask one thing because yeah, getting
back to the emails, the list of emails, Tony writes
in and says thanks for the terror discussions. But also
he and his wife are going to air and Water
next week. And I was thinking what is air and water?
Speaker 1 (06:42):
But you know, so Aaron water is from the folks
who do left to Colt and this is it's not
left to Colt. It's modern more modern cars too. It's
April twenty sixth Saturday, and I believe Long Beach. I
(07:03):
believe it's at the fair grounds.
Speaker 2 (07:06):
Is that Long Beach like is that in California? Oh?
Speaker 1 (07:08):
Sorry, Yes, that's in That is in California. It's at
Oh it's at the Orange County Fair and Events Center.
The locations change every year, but it's it's honestly a
big Porsche party. That's what That's what people need to know.
It's a big Porsche party. Left to Cole is this ongoing,
sort of rotating show of classic vintage porschees air and
(07:32):
water is sort of like a shoot off of that,
featuring historic and modern cars, race and street cars. It's
just a Porsche car show.
Speaker 2 (07:45):
I get it, so I won't nail the pronunciation either,
But loft Colt is air cooled.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
Right, exactly?
Speaker 2 (07:53):
Yes, Yes, Colt is cooled.
Speaker 1 (07:57):
Yes, and the people you know, you you instantly burnish
your Porsche street cred if if you.
Speaker 2 (08:05):
Say, what's your take on that? Because I always I've
been a fan of Porsche's since I was nine, right,
I'm fifty one, so forty two years and I love
I grew up with the nine six four, and I
then I loved the nine to nine three, but I
also liked the nine nine six when it came out,
(08:26):
and the nine nine seven. I was happy when they
went back to the regular headlights, and then I bought
a nine nine to one, which I thought was perfect.
I never really cared if there was a water cooler
in the car or not, Like, who cares if it's
air cool.
Speaker 1 (08:40):
A lot of people, Oh, I mean a lot of people.
That is the that is the defining characteristic. It's a
lot of people care. It's the defining it's it's the
break between vintage Porsches and modern Porsches. Put it that way.
It's it's just in the timeline that is the Berlin
Wall between the old stuff new stuff.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
It's weird because in my mind, the break is between
nine six four and nine nine three, because that's when
they with the nine nine three, they got rid of
the wings. You can no longer see the wings from
the driver's seat, right because the headline headlights are then
raked so far back, and the nine six four still
(09:20):
had like the big turtle eye headlights.
Speaker 1 (09:23):
Well, you're not far off because the nine nine three
was also the last air cooled portion in e life. Right.
Speaker 2 (09:28):
So you're so you're you're not my wall one generation.
Speaker 1 (09:31):
Yeah, yeah, completely, I don't think you're I don't think
you're off at all. And The funny thing is that car.
To me, the nine nine three looks so tiny now,
and the older it gets, the better it looks. I
didn't It's weird to say, but even like ten years ago,
I didn't necessarily love it. But now I'm like, oh,
(09:52):
it looks really cool and it reminds me of like
Michael Jordan, like when the when the Chicago Bulls were
winning everything. It's like that era of when Nike was
super cool, and I don't know, it's a good.
Speaker 2 (10:05):
I totally agree. Like the looks of the nine nine
to three when it came out, I loved it, and
then you know, after the nine nine seven when they
kind of went back to the sort of nine six
four form, I didn't like it as much because I
thought the headlights were too raked. But now as we
(10:26):
get further away, I like it. But in terms of
the motor right, I think it's always interesting because Harley
people are the same way, like they really care if
there's a radiator, like it really makes a huge difference.
It did on Ducatti monsters. Also, right from the S
two R to the S four RS. I don't know
(10:47):
why people get so up in arms about throwing a
radiator on a motor like, especially if you can get
more horsepower out of it, why does it matter it's
still naturally aspirated.
Speaker 1 (10:58):
You know, It's got to be a mix of nostalgia
and also a deep sense that somehow things that are
mechanical and analog are more authentic than things that are
more technologically advanced. And I've been thinking about this a lot.
Just as we go deeper and deeper into the world
of AI and social media and we get farther away
(11:20):
from humanity, from human everything from human creation, human thought,
human interaction, human skill and design and attention, I think
I think it's all just this sense that as we
move further down this road of virtual reality and computerized everything,
(11:44):
some people like the thought of maintaining a closer connection
to truly mechanical and analog tech. I don't know things,
what do you think?
Speaker 2 (11:55):
Well, is that nuts? No? I totally.
Speaker 1 (11:57):
I've been agreeing about that, and I'm not saying it's rational,
Like when we're talking about radiators and motorcycles.
Speaker 2 (12:05):
Yeah, because there's nothing digital about right, Well, a water
cooled Porscha engine, it's still it still doesn't need any computers,
right Necessarily, you could still have carbureted sure water cooled engine.
So I just I don't know, I get it, especially
with motorcycles because I wouldn't want to Harley that's liquid
(12:27):
cooled either. But with Porscha's I don't care as much.
I the air cooling isn't the problem, and I don't
even care as much if the steering is electronic. But
it starts when you start moving further and further in
that direction. It does bother me.
Speaker 1 (12:42):
And I do think it's it's it's like it's an
emotional thing. It's not necessarily rational all the time. So
the nine nine three was so interesting too because that
was fifty years basically of air cool technology. So that
was the last and then when they switched to the
nine ninety six, which, by the way, everyone hated the
in addition to just hating the idea of water cooled engines,
(13:03):
hated the headlights, which we should discuss, Matt. I mean
people love them, people, especially with these old brands like
Harley Davidson you mentioned and Portia, and also I think
Corvette goes there too. People just hate change in general,
like no, like the new thing of anything instantly is
gonna get a lot of hate to some of these
iconic shapes.
Speaker 2 (13:22):
It's to some extent, it's true. And by the way,
I hate the nine nine six headlights and I will
always hate it. I will always hate them. I don't
care if collectors say, like now is the time, like
Ted Gooshu goes out and buys a nine nine six Turbo,
so we all should. I do not like it, and
I why not?
Speaker 1 (13:43):
But why not?
Speaker 2 (13:43):
If they look so plastically there's just too much junk,
you know, dripping into the body. I don't love the
as I say, the rake of the nine nine three headlights,
but at least they're round, you know. Yeah, the nine
become like this melted jelly bean that all SUV shapes
(14:05):
are now, you know. And I just don't like it
at all. I don't care if it's water cooled. I'm
glad that they take a step forward in that kind
of It's not really technology, is it. I guess it
is technology and that sort of engineering, but yeah, I don't.
I was so happy when they went back.
Speaker 1 (14:22):
I was gonna say, I feel like Porsche probably would
never admit this, but their actions after the nine to
ninety six sort of might have proved that they did
agree with the general kids.
Speaker 2 (14:32):
By the way, the nine nine seven I've always changed.
I've always thought that nine nine to seven is so
cool because they made that, they made that compromise, they
went back to the original roundheadlights. But they continue to
develop what essentially was a nine nine to six. Right,
That's that generation lasted for thirteen years. So if you
get a nine nine to seven, you're getting the end
(14:55):
of that. You know, attempt at perfect at perfection for
nine to eleven, and they they they came so far,
they did so well. I think everything is so sordid.
And that is the last nine to eleven that actually
has mechanical steering. There's no computerized steering. There's an actual handbrake.
I mean to me, that is the the ultimate analog
(15:20):
nine to eleven, before they went to a stupid little
button that you push to put on the emergency brake,
and before they went to electric steering, when you could
really feel every pebble under your tires.
Speaker 1 (15:32):
You say that, but I have to say, you know,
I yeah, it's a great car. I'm not gonna I'm
not gonna argue. I'm like, I literally just looked googled
photos of it. I don't like you.
Speaker 2 (15:44):
The nine seven also doesn't have that huge set of
stack that goes through the middle of the car, you know.
Speaker 1 (15:49):
But the funny thing is this car feels nostalgic to
get into, Like when when I get into ours, it
feels it feels old, and it's not that old a car,
which one, you know, the nine ninety seven, Yeah, the
nine ninety seven. Yeah, it's not that old a car.
You know.
Speaker 2 (16:07):
It feels like a classic though, because of this sort of.
Speaker 1 (16:10):
Feels it does it still feels really analog to your point.
And then when you get in a nine nine one
that does feel to me modern, that is definitely a
break a break point, I would say, yes, And like
the nine to eleven, you're right about that in the
nine eleven timeline because a nine nine to one, that's
the car we drove to Moab in a day and
it was kind of just fine.
Speaker 2 (16:31):
Yeah, well, I still think it's a it's a it's
a perfect nine to eleven. It just is a little
bit more electronic. But there are some huge benefits to
a nine to nine to one. That was they have
three point eight The three point eight liter in line
six is the biggest sort of non GT car that
you could get uh with a naturally aspirated motor and
(16:56):
a stick, because that GTS is like the perfect GTS.
You can get a stick, it's a three point eight.
You can get the Burmester like everything is is nice.
And and now you now with the GTS you have
a turbo, and now you have a hybrid turbo and
there's no stick anymore.
Speaker 1 (17:11):
I don't I don't think that's wrong.
Speaker 2 (17:13):
And they don't have analog gauges. They don't have analog gauge.
They've got it.
Speaker 1 (17:17):
They've got a screen that looks like an analog gauge. Matt,
come on, huge, I'm all about the right tool for
the job. And I we've told this story before, but
I but the nine to nine to one really changed
both our minds about you know, it's a use it's
a modern, usable car that you're gonna want to use
when you don't want to use an older, more analog.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
By the way, I don't think I don't always think
new or change is bad. This year is the first
year that Harley Davidson's in the Cruiser the Softail lineup
have had traction control and ride modes.
Speaker 1 (17:53):
Oh, how's that?
Speaker 2 (17:54):
Going, and Yeah, I talked to like my my dealer
buddy in Connecticut. He he doesn't like that because he thinks, like,
you don't need rider modes, but okay, don't use the
rider mode. It's like, who cares. It's been throttle by
wire for a long time. So I'm glad they put
rider modes. I'm glad they have cruise control. I'm glad
they have traction control because they're all about making maximum
(18:16):
torque to the rear wheel, right, and if you have
maximum torque to the rear wheel and no traction control,
that's no bueno when it rains a little bit.
Speaker 1 (18:26):
Yeah, I mean to me, well, first of all, does
that new technology add to the weight of the bike.
Speaker 2 (18:33):
I don't think it's a Harley Davidson, so heavier is better.
No one's trying to lightweight a Harley Davidson.
Speaker 1 (18:40):
For me, don't. I don't want anything that adds to
the weight. But in general, I agree with you that, Hey,
if you don't like it, just don't.
Speaker 2 (18:45):
Use it in a dou Katie. You do want as
light as possible in a Portia. I guess they're still
aiming for light, although they get heavier and heavier. But
in way Harley a weight is a is a benefit, waight.
Speaker 1 (18:57):
I disagree even in any with the Harley's I'm like,
it's already heavy. I don't want to add anything else.
It can't handle it.
Speaker 2 (19:04):
By the way, while Warren weight, let me just tell
you my thoughts on the Cadillac Escalade IQ. So I
have been waiting for at least a year, probably longer
for this because I think it's such a beautiful design
and I mean I think it's gorgeous and so much room.
Obviously it's an escalator, so there's so much room inside.
I'm a big person. I like a lot of room.
(19:24):
I have kids with car seats that career facing, so
I need that extra space. And I just love a
huge land yacht. But this is one of the first
vehicles I've driven where I'm like, yeah, I can feel
the weight. That's a little too much. Weight is very heavy, IQ.
(19:47):
I feel like it's crushing the pavement as.
Speaker 1 (19:49):
I rolled down mad No.
Speaker 2 (19:51):
I mean it's very very that is.
Speaker 1 (19:54):
That is the opposite. When I was driving that in
San Francisco up and down the cove, it was light
as a feather. I mean, you just need to go faster.
Speaker 2 (20:03):
No, it's very fast. But if you put it in
like the V mode, you can push a V button
on the steering wheel and that puts it into the
I guess ultimate sporty driving mode, and then you mash
down the accelerator. It's very difficult to keep it under control.
That is that I didn't have that so quick, and
I'm just.
Speaker 1 (20:22):
That's it's quick. Yes, it's quick. I think the steering
was so light, so good, so nimble and agile. I
was really impressive. It has rear wheel steering just like
the GMC Hummer. It can it can do the crab walk.
It will literally crab walk you into a valet spot.
I mean, I was like, this thing feels light as
a feather. I think you just need to drive faster.
Speaker 2 (20:45):
I don't know if I just wasn't thinking about it
when I drove the Hummer, because I really enjoyed the
Hummer me too, And I really enjoyed the GMC Sierra
ev there electric pickup truck, and I imagine those have
similar battery size and are probably almost as heavy, if
not as heavy. The Cadillac is the best of the
(21:06):
three of them in terms of envh You know in
terms of noise, vibration, and harshness, they have absolutely perfected it,
but to me, it just felt so and feels I'm
still driving today so heavy, especially under hard acceleration. It's
squirmy and I I don't know. The only other complaint
(21:27):
I have, which I have to say, can every time
I touch one of the doors to open or close it.
I don't understand how they made those doors. It feels
like it feels like they're trying to give me a
workout by opening or closing the doors. There's a resistance
there where if you want to open it you have
to automatic.
Speaker 1 (21:48):
Well that's the audit. You're supposed to let the door
open for you.
Speaker 2 (21:51):
It doesn't open all the way though, and even if
you're on a line in a driveway, it won't even
stay open all the way. It's like my challenger, the
door just wants to close.
Speaker 1 (22:00):
I do agree it is. It's one of those automatic,
like semi autonomous doors, and they they're not my favorite.
I do feel like they get and that's an example
of technology just getting in the way of getting on
with your life. Because I actually agree with that, it's
kind of annoying.
Speaker 2 (22:17):
I don't know why. I'm sure there are big differences
between this vehicle and the g Wagon, but the g
Wagon doors.
Speaker 1 (22:24):
Are perfect tiny. Well, I do agree with that.
Speaker 2 (22:27):
The door is much smaller.
Speaker 1 (22:28):
I mean maybe they're a little stores, but those g
Wagon doors are about eighteen inches long. You know that's true.
But let's talk about the size of this thing. Because
it's nineteen feet long, it's like six and a half
feet tall. I do agree that when driving that vehicle
in urban environments it's not the best. I would much
(22:50):
rather use it as a conveyance that someone else is
driving me in because it's to me it was challenging
just because of its size. You know, I do agree
with that. I want to know what you think of
the big dashboard, those huge, like fifty five inched curve
screen inside. Did you like that? Did you not?
Speaker 2 (23:09):
Lie? Well? So I love everything else about the vehicle.
I really love. There are some small things I would
change in the dashboard, which you have to I think
be driving it to kind of understand. So when you
put on a turn signal, it shows you the camera
view of the left or the right. You can turn
it off so you don't have to see it. But
I like it because I can tell it shows me
(23:30):
what's in my blind spot. The only problem is the
camera image comes up in the middle above the center stack,
and I'd like that camera image to come up right
in front of me steering. You can switch it, Oh,
can you move it over?
Speaker 1 (23:43):
Yes, you can move it over. Because I had the
same exact experience as you. I was trying to follow
a mapped navigation route and every time I would turn
on my indicator to follow the navigation, that camera would
come on and cancel out the navigation. So I was
completely lost. And then I figure out, Oh, I can
move the camera view into the space in front of
(24:04):
the steering wheel. But to your point, it took me
like ten minutes to figure out how to do that,
and again it wasn't fun.
Speaker 2 (24:12):
I well, I like that. I mean, Kia and Hyundai,
obviously at a much lower price point, have been doing
this for a long time. I think it's good technology,
but initially it ruined my navigation experience as well, until
I put the navigation in front of me. Anyway, that's
good to know that I could change it around. It's
not one hundred percent intuitive, but I think once you
understand that system, it works well. And I also think
(24:35):
there's no Apple car Play, and this is GM I
think has done a great job of this. I don't
miss Apple car Play in these vehicles. I think it's
not necessary because everything else works so well. The navigation
is Google Maps already, which is as good as you're
going to get for navigation, and the suite of apps
(24:56):
or whatever that they have covers pretty much everything.
Speaker 1 (25:00):
Yeah, they're going to be offering Dolby autmost soon.
Speaker 2 (25:03):
The audio system I think is pretty good. The AKG
system in mine, it's still not fantastic, and it's you know,
it's one hundred and fifty thousand dollars vehicle, the one
at least as as as optioned when the one I'm driving.
Speaker 1 (25:19):
I think it starts about one twenty seven, which is
forty grand more than the gas powered Escalade.
Speaker 2 (25:26):
I well, for me, the one I'm driving, Uh, it's
one forty eight three point fifty with with all one
hundred and fifty dollars of options. Because it's the top
the sport too, right, I feel like for that price
I should expect like a concert quality huh stereo system,
(25:47):
and it's just not quite there, but it's still better
than almost anything else.
Speaker 1 (25:50):
Well at most is coming to the Escalade. The weird
thing about it is they didn't launch it with Dolby Atmost.
Not that that's the be all and end all, but
I think it would help get They also.
Speaker 2 (26:00):
Didn't launch it with the automatic Like apparently you're going
to be able to open and close the doors with
the screen after a software update, but they haven't done
that yet.
Speaker 1 (26:10):
Yeah, there are a couple of little yeah, a couple
of little things that maybe when they arrive, will make
it a better experience. I think, all in though, this
is a car you could be proud to own. It's
a car I'd be proud to own, be proud to
see in, you know, in terms of arrivals, Oh, if
you're at an event, for sure. I mean it's and
(26:32):
there aren't many American vehicles I would say that about.
Speaker 2 (26:35):
I've death Well, I know, I think their whole line
of SUVs, like the the GMC Yukon Denaley, similar thing
the Cadillac Escalade V the super charge gas engine option.
I have had people walk up to me on the
street or in parking lots and say, oh, that's a
nice car.
Speaker 1 (26:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:56):
So there's some very there's some very cool tech. Also,
like to open the trunk, you just touch the Cadillac
emblem on the back, so there's no button on the trunk.
Speaker 1 (27:07):
Hold your hand over secret knowledge.
Speaker 2 (27:09):
Yeah, very cool stuff. So I was excited. I am
excited to drive it, and it's so awesome to have
as a family vehicle.
Speaker 1 (27:17):
Does it fit in your garage?
Speaker 2 (27:19):
It barely fits in my garage. And I need to
have it in the garage because I have to charge
it myself if I take it to a charging station.
I went to electrify America because I had gotten it
down to twenty percent and I spent fifty five minutes
getting it back to ninety percent. So in fifty five minutes,
I got that's good. That's an hour if you're on
(27:42):
a road trip, well to and guess what it costs?
Speaker 1 (27:47):
How much?
Speaker 2 (27:48):
Take a guess fifty five minutes of charging an electrify
America five dollars. Nope, yes again us you don't charge vehicles. No,
one hundred eleven dollars. What hundred and eleven dollars to
charge at electrify America from twenty to ninety.
Speaker 1 (28:05):
I know you're supposed to dump found it. I've dumpound it.
Speaker 2 (28:08):
Yeah, what it was very.
Speaker 1 (28:10):
You might as well be filling up a Rolls Royce
gas tank because that's about what it costs for a
fill up.
Speaker 2 (28:15):
My wife, do you put it on the company card? No?
I paid for it myself.
Speaker 1 (28:19):
What I'm truly flabbergasted. I was thinking five ten dollars
the thing.
Speaker 2 (28:26):
So, if I'm driving to Ohio, it has a ton
of range to begin with.
Speaker 1 (28:29):
Like over over four hundred and fifty miles of range.
I think that's the industry leader.
Speaker 2 (28:34):
That's four and fifteenth very. If you're driving conservative.
Speaker 3 (28:37):
Like a granny and not running put it into V
and I'm doing like basically ninety miles an hour into
So but if I'm going to Ohio, that means I
have to fill up at least once.
Speaker 2 (28:49):
So that's an hour stop and one hundred and ten
bucks to do it.
Speaker 1 (28:53):
This is not the promise of EV's that we've been sold.
Speaker 2 (28:56):
I'd rather have the Escalade V. I'd rather have the GM,
the Yukondinality. I'd rather have the Chevy Tahoe z R two.
You know, all right, let me just ask you a
little bit about another SUV that's a completely different idea
(29:17):
and use so you drove the Ineos Grenadier. I have
not driven one, and I really want to because they
look awesome and I think they have done some really
great engineering for that and choices for outsourcing. So what
do you think?
Speaker 1 (29:31):
Yes, so it's a fascinating vehicle. Obviously we've all seen
them around. A ton of people have asked me about it.
I've got the Ineos Grinnandier field Master, which is a
special edition that is in partnership with Bell Staff. So
it has which I feel like you might like, Matt,
(29:54):
like a badge with like the Bell Staff logo on it,
and it's called the Field Master. I think there's a
bell Staff jacket called.
Speaker 2 (30:02):
The field very famous.
Speaker 1 (30:05):
Yes, yeah, and so so I had my disclaimers that
I've really only had it for a day and a half.
I've got it for the week, so I haven't done
a ton with it yet. But I can tell you
early on the steering is the steering turning radius is terrible.
The steering is very, very loose and all over the place. Obviously,
(30:28):
this is a vehicle that's tooled for off road driving, so.
Speaker 2 (30:32):
That is the steering is the one thing that worries me.
I haven't driven it.
Speaker 1 (30:35):
The steering is a challenge.
Speaker 2 (30:37):
It just doesn't automatically center like a normal modern car.
Speaker 1 (30:40):
It really doesn't. It's it's it's all over the place.
But one thing I really like about it is the
interior is just big buttons. There are there's there is
a small screen in the center console for sinking Bluetooth basically,
but it's just big buttons to adjust climate and sound
(31:01):
and fans and it's I mean, it's like the idea is,
if you're wearing gloves, you can still like punch the button,
which I love.
Speaker 2 (31:08):
It's read necessary no reading.
Speaker 1 (31:10):
No, if you're ninety years old driving the thing, you'll
it'll work great. It's too big, too tall to fit
in the company parking garage, so I'm valeting it out front.
Or actually this morning I just parked it in front
and walked away because the valet wasn't there. So, you know,
I hope it's still there. At the end of the day,
we'll find out.
Speaker 2 (31:28):
I think that's such a So the steering, I wonder,
do you think it's the kind of thing you would
get used to if this was your vehicle, would you?
Speaker 1 (31:36):
Yeah? I do, I do, and especially I actually my
good friend Schmuley, who is a very intense off roader.
He's done King of the Hammers many times, goes off
roading almost every have you met you, Mettion Moulley, you
know smelly we'll have batal. Yes, yeah, he had one
for a while and he loved it, and he is
(31:57):
telling me that off road it is exceptional. He wishes
they would make a manual version. But so you know,
from my off road driving experts, maybe they do offer
offer a version. But Schmoley really gave it his seal
of approval, and I do trust his input. I would say,
(32:18):
you know, the price on this is like eighty thousand dollars,
which I was shocked. I thought they were a lot
more expensive. That seems like a very fair price.
Speaker 2 (32:28):
Yeah, and considering how expensive cars are these days, I agree.
I think so. I've also heard that it's obviously it's
it's built for overlanding, right, that's yes, that's the thing.
They don't make a manual, unfortunately, but it would to me,
it would make sense, it would make sense.
Speaker 1 (32:45):
I think the field Master they're sort of positioning as
slightly more lifestyle slash luxury, but it's still pretty rugged.
I mean, it's cool. It has like a target top
almost where you can pop out some glass inserts in
the ceiling. It's massive in the back, it's got a
ton of storage. It's fun, it's cool. I'm I'm looking
(33:07):
forward to discovering it more this week.
Speaker 2 (33:10):
I really am excited to read your story. You'll write
on that on bloomber dot com and then it'll be
in Pursuits. I have been fascinated by it ever since
I heard about the idea which which they came up
with apparently at the Grenadier, which is that's one of
the tiniest pubs in London. And then I love the
(33:32):
pub in Belgravia. It's like the most classic, like old
school pub. There's room for like four or five people
in there. And I guess the billionaire founder of Ineos.
Speaker 1 (33:43):
Said Jim Ratcliff.
Speaker 2 (33:45):
He said, why are they doing away with the Landrover Defender.
I think he tried to buy what the yeah? Is
that right? He tried to buy the Defender sort of
to make it himself, and land Rover said no, and
so he just did it anyway.
Speaker 1 (33:59):
He wanted to buy the tooling from Jaguar land Rover
to try to complete yes his own the defender again
and that he was told no, so he decided.
Speaker 2 (34:08):
But he made some really good outsourcing decisions. For example,
the motor is a BMW six Yes, yeah, which is
unbeatable motor, absolute classic.
Speaker 1 (34:18):
And I believe that Jim Ratcliffe, of course he owns
some soccer teams. I believe he owns Bell Staff, if
not all of it, part of it, so he you know.
Speaker 2 (34:30):
Oh really yes, so which, by the way, you and
McGregor I think wears the He wears a field Master
like jacket in his motorcycle series Long.
Speaker 1 (34:37):
Way Up, makes sense, makes complete sense. My point being,
this is a very wealthy man who is not depending
on ineos to like for his survival to make a
lot of money, which I think is good. You know,
I don't like these firms that are sort of betting
everything on doing a resto mode type vehicle. It's better
(34:58):
to come at it like this sort of his pet project,
and he can take the time to do it right
and to spend the money to do it right.
Speaker 2 (35:05):
A great time to transition to someone who does need
his new business to work. We talked to Bill Melvin,
who has bought the Buell brand or the Buell Motorcycle
Technology from essentially came out of Harley Davidson and then
bought the brand from Eric Buell himself, and he's starting
the business, starting production of his super Cruiser motorcycle in
(35:30):
the fall in Michigan. We had a chance to sit
down with him. Let's listen to that interview. Bill tell
us first of all about how you got the business.
Speaker 4 (35:37):
Yeah, well, we have a buy cell company liquid asset,
and we have been doing a lot of deals in
the motorsports business, working with OEM's distributors, some race schools,
and had opportunity to acquire an amazing product.
Speaker 5 (35:52):
Nearly the core of the product at that point is
our V twin.
Speaker 2 (35:55):
Right.
Speaker 4 (35:55):
It's a one hundred and eighty five horsepower one hundred
and seventy five horsepower depending on the fuel set up,
and it's very lightweight. It's a V twin we build
in America, but it's very you know, it's a Ducati
style engine, right, so it's got it loves to live
at seven thousand rpm. Right, Like when you get to
seven thousand, that's where it starts to breathe. And then
(36:16):
from there, like everything just turns weightless and you turn
the throttle up to eleven thousand and it just rips
right like you got to experience. So it was really
cool thing to have that, But we didn't have the brand.
The brand was still owned by Harley Davison at that point, so.
Speaker 2 (36:31):
Harley basically I was reading about this earlier, so Harley
basically let it die. They wrote it down to zero
after the Great Financial Crisis, but they still held the asset.
Speaker 5 (36:41):
Correct.
Speaker 1 (36:41):
Yeah, why did they let it go? Just out of curiosity?
Speaker 4 (36:46):
I mean, it was the performance brand of American motorcycles
and they were, you know, wanted to focus just on
the heavy cruisers. So as they were doing that, they
let it let it go. And we feel fortunate that
we were able to pick it up through some great
attorneys and a little bit the divine intervention, put it
back with the high performance engine, and then we started
working on like what's next.
Speaker 5 (37:05):
We got to build a team.
Speaker 4 (37:06):
We've built an amazing team. We wanted to move it
to Michigan, the motor state where you have all the
resources of engineering and motors and gears and and gasoline
and horsepower.
Speaker 2 (37:16):
But how did you have the idea for the cruiser?
Because Buel was making as you say, sport bikes.
Speaker 1 (37:21):
Right.
Speaker 2 (37:21):
The idea was low center of gravity. They had the
fuel and the frame, they had the They were the
first motorcycle I saw with the exhaust under the bike,
you know for at street bike. Yep, they were race bikes.
So how did you say, like, oh, let me get
Rolling Sands to hard pivot to design a cruiser.
Speaker 5 (37:37):
It was a hard pivot.
Speaker 4 (37:38):
Yeah, while we were looking at the engine and the
platform and what could we first do with this high
performance platform that would also be more Americana, right. So
you look at the traditional styling of a cruiser, and
I thought, I want to have a traditional cruiser, steel tank,
steel frame, but package in our superbike. And so I thought,
who would be the best designer for this? I had
known Rolling Sands.
Speaker 1 (38:00):
Is the best designer.
Speaker 5 (38:01):
He is a yes, just a genius.
Speaker 4 (38:03):
So we had like a late night Friday phone call
and talked about the way it would come together, and
like a week later he sent over the sketch and
that was it.
Speaker 5 (38:12):
It was beautiful.
Speaker 1 (38:13):
Did you have a certain writer or certain mentality in
mind when you were talking with Roland about what to create,
because I'm very curious about what type of person is
going to be drawn to this bike besides Matt Who.
I think you're even surprised at how much you like it. Who.
Speaker 2 (38:28):
I was pretty surprised. I mean I knew I would
like it, and I've been following it since you guys
first unveiled it with Rolling Sands like years ago. But
I've been I don't know, I've been blown away by
the engine. Really, it makes this insane sound when you
chopped the throttle and the handling. It's just it reminds
(38:51):
me a lot of the KTM Super Duke when they
first came out with a twelve ninety, except for it
actually looks cool.
Speaker 4 (38:57):
So yeah, well that the coolness is really something that
Roland put into it, right. I mean, he's an artist
who's got a great designers. But you know, we wanted
to really go to the core of the American motorcycle
market and give the riders what they hadn't had for
that they've always wanted, right, They've been going to Ducati's
because that was the performance that they wanted. That was
(39:17):
the engine sound, that was the exhaust note that they
were looking for. But they couldn't have that performance in
an American style bike and So that was the vision
to create that Americana with a mule brand, a performance
brand that people know around the world, and you know,
put something together that no one's done before in the US.
Speaker 2 (39:34):
So tell me about I know you've taken a lot
of preorders. I think the idea is you pay a
thousand dollars to get on the list and then you're
eligible to buy it for like twenty five when it
comes out. So give us those details. How many preorders?
When are you going to start building it? When's the
first delivery?
Speaker 5 (39:50):
So we have a little over six thousand pre orders,
that's a lot.
Speaker 2 (39:54):
Yeah, our team has.
Speaker 5 (39:55):
Been cranking ahead.
Speaker 4 (39:56):
The cool thing is we've built that awesome team. They're
really energetic, passionate group about making a cool product, and
they've been just cranking away on all the development steps
and we do final testing, emissions, EPA, CARB, get all
those things buttoned up, and we start production this fall.
Speaker 1 (40:13):
Okay, So are you going to be hit by tariffs?
I mean I have to think, I have to think
right now, this is a great time to be launching
an American made bike. How affected are you going to
be by tariffs?
Speaker 5 (40:24):
Yeah, we'll be a little bit affected.
Speaker 4 (40:26):
On our components, because we do have some foreign components,
but on the new bike we would really focus for
the last three years to have more US content. So
eighty five percent of the new components are US.
Speaker 1 (40:38):
Supersis that's high? Yeah, that's really high.
Speaker 5 (40:41):
And we've been focused on that for a while.
Speaker 4 (40:43):
But if there was like a large tariff on European
motorcycles or European exports, that would be helpful for us,
right because then you know, the similar you know, performance
du Katti or BMW is going to be you know,
twenty five or fifty percent more and ours will have
like a you know, five percent in.
Speaker 1 (41:01):
Oh, you're smiling, so yeah, like that.
Speaker 2 (41:05):
So I have to think the elephant in the room
is the Harley Davidson Lowrider S just because they also
build that as their performance cruiser. Obviously, it's a very
different thing in terms of the motor and actually the
seating position. Although they're similar in that they're both kind
of mid footpegs and kind of a raised riser, they
(41:31):
are actually a little bit different. But I was talking
with Shannon at the Moto GP, who is your supply
chain director, and I don't know how much we can
talk about this, but she said, Harley Davidson's components are
like thirty to forty US. Yeah, they had a lot
of that sounds much lower than I would have expected.
Speaker 4 (41:50):
Yeah, and they moved a lot of their manufacturing overseas,
which is, you know, a challenge that they're going through
right now. For us, we're building them in Michigan. But
you know, it's a it's a cool thing that we've
been building. It's a interesting vibe that we're been getting
from the customers, right, I mean, we're getting all these
young customers who are coming to us saying, you know,
(42:11):
this is what we wanted, right, we want a US product.
We're willing to pay a little bit more for it.
We're excited that you guys are focused on US supply
chain and we've been building like this super cool, energetic
vibe with our team. Like if you go into our factory,
like it's almost a reality show.
Speaker 5 (42:26):
You got all these you know.
Speaker 2 (42:27):
People, just you should make it, right, I mean, and
it will be then basically the only really American made motorcycle.
I mean not just assembled, but you're going to have
more than half of your components sourced from the US.
You're going to build it in the US, and I
don't think that Indian and Harley then will meet that criteria.
Speaker 4 (42:50):
I'm not sure exactly what their percentages are. But we've
been really focused on it, right. I mean, it's it's
hard to do, it's expensive. You know, we've we've been
you know, raising some capital with some you know investment family,
friends and family that want to be aligned in building
this American product. But it's great to have that support
from the customers because they're pulling us ahead, right And
those those riders are like these core riders out in
(43:12):
LA that are you know, the diner bros.
Speaker 1 (43:14):
They're insane.
Speaker 4 (43:15):
They are I They're insane, super passionate about the types
of product they're riding. The low rider s just really
doesn't give them what they want, right, Like it's it's heavy,
it's got good torque, but as much as your supercruiser
away it's just about five hundred pounds, so as the
low riders is like over six hundred, like six fifty
or something or six seventy. They're horse powers like one
(43:35):
twenty or one hundred and seventy five. They have a
little bit more torque, but we've got you know, very
quick speed so you turn the throttle. It's got one
hundred and one pounds of torque on undred five hundred
pounds bike.
Speaker 5 (43:46):
It just rips.
Speaker 1 (43:47):
Can I just ask a provocative question. I'm not going
to ask if you considered making this new bike electric
because it doesn't fit at all with what you're describing
you want the brand to be. But do you think
there is a place for electric bikes in the broader
world of motorcycles and what is their future? Or is
that something that you're just like, I.
Speaker 2 (44:09):
Think I just jump in for a second. It is
funny that you're the second person to ask this question
of Bill today. Your interest was peaked in motorcycles because
you were tinkering in your garage and electric bikes before
any existed, right.
Speaker 4 (44:21):
Yes, Yeah, I started riding when I was four. My
dad had a huge collection of rare bikes and he
was a historian and a deal maker, and so I
was riding like all the bikes you could ever imagine,
similar to what me and magnets are driving all kinds
of different cars.
Speaker 5 (44:33):
I had that growing up, So I was fortunate.
Speaker 2 (44:35):
And then you're into bikes already, but you did get
into electric propulsion.
Speaker 4 (44:39):
Started working on electric vehicles, was testing some of the
new electric motorcycles that were out in the market, was
starting to design an electric cycle, had the website electriccycle
dot com, was working on some electric scooters. But really
what I was seeing is that the power to wait
isn't quite there. So the weight of the battery and
the power that you need out of it is too
heavy for two wheels. So to have a comparable motorcycle
(45:01):
similar to what we have with any kind of similar
range is going to be like seven hundred pounds, right,
eight hundred pounds, and then when you get done going
eighty miles ninety miles, you have to sit there for
an hour and a half. So the charge factor was
a big factor as well. And it's shown in the
industry right. A lot of the electric companies have been
having issues with their sales and you know customer satisfaction.
Speaker 2 (45:21):
Well, all you have to do is watch the long
way up and realize it's just not the right way
to travel, but it could be someday, right, and it
is fun for those short zips. I wonder about track
use for your Supercruiser. Have people been taking down the track,
because that's instantly what I wanted to do. We did
go on the track.
Speaker 4 (45:39):
Yeah, so we went out with a pro rider, and
we have our superbike, the Hammerhead, which is a Ducatti
level superbike, and we have the hammer of the Supercruiser
right there with it. And it was like one second
off on lap times, so it rips on the track.
It has a lean angle similar to a superbike, but
it doesn't look like one, right, So it's it's kind
(45:59):
of need to have that. You can go down the road,
you can go down the beach, you can cruise, but
you can go on the track. You can rip, you
can stunt it, you can do wheelaser. It does all
kinds of fun stuff as you've seen in some of this.
Speaker 2 (46:10):
Good because I don't want to be a power ranger anymore,
you know now, I just want to be a angel.
Speaker 1 (46:15):
Yes, I love it.
Speaker 2 (46:17):
That was Bill Melvin, the owner and CEO of Buell Motorcycles,
and suffice it to say, I'm very excited about that.
Speaker 1 (46:28):
Me too, Me too. I think, I mean it makes sense.
I hope. I hope they can pull it off.
Speaker 2 (46:33):
I really do as well. I think they're one of
those businesses, you know, you take a ton of orders
like a singer during the pandemic or probably icon happened
to them, rebology, and then you've got to turn around
and make them. You got to execute, and it'll be
it'll be amazing to see if they can execute and
(46:54):
make money, right, because it's expensive to produce stuff in America.
Speaker 1 (46:58):
It's so I mean the tariffs, the tariffs, I mean,
I don't think. I don't know if they're ready.
Speaker 2 (47:07):
Well, fortunately they don't care that much about these arrests
because they've sourced most of their supply chain in America. Yeah,
what do you So you're driving the Ineos Grenadier. We're
gonna hear more about that. We're gonna get your your
article on it. Oh, by the way, one of the
coolest things about the Ineos Grenadier, well maybe not the coolest,
but something a flare touch that I love. Yes, have
you configured a vehicle online?
Speaker 1 (47:28):
Oh? No, No.
Speaker 2 (47:29):
When you can figure the vehicle, you can choose the
color of the frame under the body. So I like
to configure a blue Grenadier and I pick a red
frame and then you can just barely see it peeking
out under the vehicle, like you almost have to know
to look what a tease? Don't you think that's cool.
Speaker 1 (47:48):
Yes, I think that's very cool. It's like stitching on
the inside of a suit or exactly can't leg or.
Speaker 2 (47:55):
Yeah, you know, like the British guys are always wearing
red socks yea, even though they're dressed in a dressed
to the nines in a suit in the city and
and then like you can only see it when they
sit down on the tube or whatever. Real Yeah, very cool.
What else have you got going on? You say, Aaron
Water is coming out this week?
Speaker 1 (48:12):
Water is Saturday, guess Yeah, planning on it, Yeah, Saturday morning.
And that's kind of you know, Formula one Miami is
coming up. I'm not going to go, but we've got
some guests for the show coming up that are going
to come on around F one Miami, and I'm gonna
have some coverage on that coming up. So that'll be
good something to look forward to. And yeah, that's kind
(48:35):
of it. You know. New York was so fun last week.
This week I'm focusing on, you know, grounding, going to
ground in La nice, chilling out, Yeah.
Speaker 2 (48:45):
Working on yourself a little bit there.
Speaker 1 (48:47):
Yeah, yeah, you know, walk the dog, get a coffee,
try to say chill, you know, try to go for
a day or two without having a cocktail or two.
Speaker 2 (48:56):
You know, just get it too, you know my whoop
thing that I wear, this whoop. The last few days
have not been good in terms of recovery. I don't know,
like I'm just I'm all over the place. Maybe too
much sugar, not enough sleep, not enough exercise. So I
(49:16):
really need to ground myself as well.
Speaker 1 (49:18):
Yes, yeah, you.
Speaker 2 (49:19):
Know, play some sports, maybe talk to my pickleball, talk
to my shrink a little bit, and just get back
to do some breathing exercises completely.
Speaker 1 (49:30):
I love the breathing. Get some incense.
Speaker 2 (49:32):
Oh.
Speaker 1 (49:32):
I found some really good incense in New York this trip, Matt.
I know you're an incense I like it. I found some.
I've been burning the incense.
Speaker 2 (49:41):
Scent.
Speaker 1 (49:43):
There's a there's a scent called, Oh I'm gonna butcher
it coat desser. It's by a reb you know that company,
a reb or Rebay.
Speaker 2 (49:54):
No incense from street vendors, and there's not a brain necessarily, Yes, exactly.
Speaker 1 (50:02):
Nag Champa. I like that too.
Speaker 2 (50:04):
Yeah of college. Yeah, dog Champa smells like an n
y U dorm room.
Speaker 1 (50:09):
Yeah, you know, there's a there's a store on Elizabeth
Street called Love Adorn. That's got a great selection. I
highly reckon.
Speaker 2 (50:16):
All right, I'll go check.
Speaker 1 (50:17):
Out all sorts of instances. Oh, I should say, our
buddy Steve Serio's coming to LA and I'm going to
have dinner with him on Saturday.
Speaker 2 (50:25):
Oh nice, So we should get him back on the show.
Speaker 1 (50:27):
We should get him back on the show. You know,
I'm sure you'd be happy to talk about the summer auctions.
Speaker 2 (50:33):
Very cool. All right, Well we'll do that here next week.
Please tune in again and email us if you've got
anything that you want to talk about. I'm Matt Miller,
and
Speaker 1 (50:41):
I'm Hannah Elliott, and this is Bloomberg
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Hannah Elliott
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