August 1, 2025 • 27 mins
Hannah and Matt compare notes about the new Dodge Charger Daytona, and Hannah reports back from her test drive of the new Tesla Diner. Plus, Matt talks tariffs with Ford's Jim Farley.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio News. I'm Matt Miller and
I'm Hannah Elliott, and this is Hot Pursuit.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
All right, we have well, we have kind of a
shorter podcast day because you have to rush off and
research a very cool story.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
I'm excited to talk about it.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
I want to hear about that. Maybe you can quickly
explain it to us. Plus, we're going to compare notes
on the Dodge Charger Daytona scat pack because we've both
driven in.
Speaker 1 (00:40):
Yeah, which is code for it's an electric muscle car.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
Yeah. And I have to think I have a lot
on EV's like you have a story on the Tesla Diner,
so I want to get into what that is. And
I also want to talk a little bit about Ford
because I interviewed Jim Farley this week and we're getting
more tariff news is which creates an interesting conundrum or
(01:04):
or maybe unintended consequences for the Trump administration rules. So
let's start all of that with just a brief Can
you give us a brief synopsis of where you're going,
of what you're doing, Yes.
Speaker 1 (01:18):
Just briefly. I am going to visit Ben Tuona, who
is a really talented stained glass fabricator and really master
craftsman who works in his shop in Glendale. We are
doing a really big photo shoot and feature on his work,
(01:38):
which has been seen a little bit in pieces here
and there, but hasn't really been featured properly. He has
started putting stained glass in Old Portchas an old nine
to eleven, an old three five six. So I don't
want to say too much more about it, but it's
a really feel good story. It involves some things local
(02:00):
to California. It's a family business, et cetera, et cetera.
So I'm really excited to go talk to Ben in
a few minutes.
Speaker 2 (02:07):
Yeah, I'm looking forward to seeing that story, definitely seeing
the photos, but also hearing about the growth in that
business and you know, just how that that family has
been able to nurture like this craft, this artisan you
know skill, yeah, or old world skill into a marketable talent. Okay,
(02:30):
let's let's talk a little about this. Dodge Charger is
the Dodge Charger EV which, first of all, you know,
I have a Dodge Challenger scat pack, so I have
the two door muscle car, the gas powered one that
Dodge basically ended production of in twenty twenty three, and
(02:51):
so for me, I was really fascinated to see what
driving the EV version of it would be. It's already
weird because they call it a Charger instead of a Challenge,
and it is a two door. It is essentially the
new version of the Challenger, So I don't know why
they did that name switch, but yeah, I was shocked
at how much I absolutely loved the vehicle.
Speaker 1 (03:13):
Yes, oh, I'm so happy to hear that, because I
also loved it. But I'm not the core audience or demographic,
you know, you really, Matt, are like the core person
who's going to care about it and have a lot
of gripes and you're gonna know why you hate it
or why you love it. So I also had a
lot of fun, but I don't own something in this wheelhouse,
(03:36):
So what did you love about it?
Speaker 2 (03:37):
Yeah? It's interesting because the I think the core audience
is the very last target market that you would want
to try and sell an EV to. Like muscle car
guys like the smell, they like the sound, they like
the vibes, they like almost the anachronistic, you know point
of these big gas guzzling, big motors. And so they're
(04:03):
really not interested in EV's and they even have kind
of like a violent reaction against EV's in general. So
no idea why they Dodge thought this was a good idea,
but I think it's just one more of the ways
that Carlos Tavares like almost destroyed this company in his
tenure at CEO. But I loved it because it really,
(04:24):
to me looks like an early seventies evolution of If
the Challenger is like a late sixties muscle car, I'm
talking about the new version, so it isn't, but if
it is, then this is kind of the early seventies
evolution of that. And you know, in the seventies things
kind of went wrong for muscle cars, but at the
(04:45):
very beginning, I think they were still pretty cool, and
this has that totally that vibe for me. The design
is it's moved forward and so it's not as aggressive
and brutal, but it's I think in a in a
cool way. It's it's a little bit more elegant, and
it has some really cool touches, like the front splitter
(05:08):
you can see through it goes kind of their two
holes in the hood, which is awesome. But everything I
love about my My Challenger still is maintained in terms
of the feel, you know, the interior feel. It's big
and roomy. It's it's kind of like a boat, although
it handles better than My Challenger. It's a heavy car,
(05:29):
so it's a great cruiser. And the ev power train
I think works really cool because you know, zero sixty
is nothing. It's like three seconds and you're there, and
that's that's what you want from these drag cars.
Speaker 1 (05:44):
Yes, and I think if I remember, it's like six
hundred and seventy horsepower and almost the same amount of
torque like in the in the six hundred range, maybe
six thirty something like that.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
You're almost exactly spot on. It is six seventy horse
power and I think six twenty seven.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
Torque, yeah, which is like awesome. And I love that
it's back to the design. I love that it's two doors.
I think they are coming with the four door version later.
I don't know if they're still going to do that.
When I drove it in January, they said they were.
I hope maybe that's still the pend I don't know,
But because your Challenger is a it's a four door vehicle, right.
Speaker 2 (06:21):
No, the Challenger has always been the two door and
the four door is the charger. That's why it's weird
that they put out this two door and they call
it a charger.
Speaker 1 (06:29):
It's a little confusing, Okay, So yeah, so that explains, Like, yeah,
it's a it's a little odd to me that they
did that. But I do like that this is a
two door and it's got that cool fratzog logo like
kind of everywhere, which I also thought full throwback.
Speaker 2 (06:47):
Totally love love that logo. I will say that the
when I first took delivery of this vehicle and turned
it on, I was like, cool, it is loud, and
of not yes, and when you put it into sport
mode it gets louder, and when you put it into
track or drag mode, it gets even louder. But then
(07:08):
after a couple of minutes of driving it, I was
like desperately searching for ways to turn that off.
Speaker 1 (07:14):
Yeah, And did you ultimately turn it off?
Speaker 2 (07:16):
Yes? And now like and so I actually I don't
have it anymore. But for the week that I had it,
you know, I had the sound on for the first
couple of days, initially every time I drove it, and
then I would go into the system, it's pretty easy
to turn it off. But then and they call it
stealth mode. But then, for the last like three or
four days I was driving it, I had it only
in stealth mode because it it really is too loud
(07:38):
and too annoying to have on all the time when
you're driving.
Speaker 1 (07:41):
Yeah, I actually don't hate a stealth mode these days.
You know, we talked, we've talked before about stealth mode
and Lamborghini's which I actually think is pretty functional and usable.
I like, I do like that. Where did you drive it?
Did you take this anywhere special? Well?
Speaker 2 (07:58):
I didn't take it anywhere special per se, But my
usual places to go are I drive out to Bedford,
New York, or I drive up to Bear Mountain, and
I also drive out on Long Island. So I did
all three of those things, and I loved, absolutely loved
driving it. In fact, there were times I have a
(08:20):
summer house on or my parents have a summer house
on the beach on Fire Island, and normally when I
go out there, I want to stay out as long
as I can, and I'll come back, like on a
Monday morning on the Red Eye, so I can get
to work without having to leave the beach sooner, but
this time I wanted to leave almost as soon as
I got there, just to go drive the car again.
(08:40):
Like it's that kind of addictive handling characteristic or has
those handling characteristics that are so addicted that I wanted
to drive it as much as I could. And obviously
that says a lot of good things about the vehicle,
and it's I haven't ever really felt that way about
an electric vehicle, but this one just it turns in
(09:03):
so well, it holds in the corner so well. Obviously
it accelerates out of a corner amazingly. But all of
those miles on it really brought to the forefront the
biggest weakness, or one of the top two big weaknesses
for this car, and that is the range. It's almost nothing.
It's like one hundred I think I charged it to
eighty eighty eight percent and I had one hundred and
(09:24):
sixty seven miles of forecasted range, which is oh no,
not good, horrible, right at all.
Speaker 1 (09:32):
That's not even close to competitive. I mean, three hundred
is like expected by now, three hundred.
Speaker 2 (09:37):
Miles absolutely, So that's one of the big big drawbacks
of this vehicle, and the other one is the price. Now,
this was the top of the line model, so and
like Dodge does amazingly well, they put a million different
names in it. So it's the Dodge Charger Daytona SCAT pack,
and that's the best one they offer for now. I
think they're off there coming out with an even more
(09:59):
blazing vehicle. But seventy eight thousand dollars in change is
how much they're charging for this before delivery fee. So
it's an eighty thousand dollars car. That's just insane. That's
a hellcat.
Speaker 1 (10:12):
Now, yes, I think you can. They have the Daytona RT,
which is like the entry level version, which might be
closer to sixty thousand dollars. So to your point, this
is sort of the top end of it. But that
is expensive. But then when you try to think, like
what are the competitor cars to this? And I asked
that about the price, because what other Tudor electric sports
(10:38):
cars are there? There really aren't any. Like, I mean,
you can another Tudor EV sports car.
Speaker 2 (10:45):
You could say. Someone will say a Tesla.
Speaker 1 (10:48):
Right, yeah, but that's not a two door. They don't
sell two door sports cars that are electric.
Speaker 2 (10:54):
Good point, I always I always think, I don't know
why of the Model three is a two door, but
it's not. Yeah, I know, I can't think of any
but I wouldn't, so that's not how my mind works.
Speaker 1 (11:06):
Okay, let me just say and then I want to
hear your thought. Maybe the Corvette E Ray, like that's
a that's like electric, you know, tudor I mean, there's
not a lot in this segment. It's kind of a
weird segment.
Speaker 2 (11:23):
True, it is. You know, it's interesting that you point
that out, because I was trying to think of the
competitors to this, and I wasn't thinking of just EV cars,
And to me, that says how good it is. When
I'm trying to think of the competition, I'm not thinking
of pure evs. Because it was I thought as thrilling
to drive as any car I've driven, you know recently,
(11:47):
full stop. So yeah, but the problem is it's not
as thrilling to drive as any eighty thousand dollars car
I've driven, because I when I think of cars in
that range, I immediately think of the BMW and that
is a far better car.
Speaker 1 (12:03):
Or what about a Cayman, you know? What about you
know seven eighteen.
Speaker 2 (12:07):
I like this better, to be honest, but because I
have Yeah, because I have specific you know needs in
that I'm six foot three, right, so I like, that's
why I bought a Dodge Challenger. I like these big,
roomy boats. And obviously that's not what a seventeen seven
eighteen is. But also a seven eighteen we've talked about before.
(12:29):
It's it's a momentum car. You've got to get up
to speed before it becomes fun. And it doesn't get
up to speed as quickly as this. This is like boom, instantaneous.
So but but the M two was like the M
two is a rocket. And if I had eighty thousand
dollars to buy a two door sports car, I think
there would just be a long list of you know,
(12:51):
vehicles I would buy before this, the Corvette, just the
Sting Ray I would either have than this.
Speaker 1 (12:57):
That's I completely agree. It's just more car, it's more everything.
But I do kind of think it's cool if you
did buy this, you would really like get a lot
of people curious and interested about it. It's interesting. It's
a really interesting choice. It's not it's not the go to,
that's for sure, but it's interesting to me.
Speaker 2 (13:16):
I also noticed that they are offering insane lease deals.
So even though it's eighty thousand dollars to buy, you
could lease it for six hundred dollars a month, you know,
with the whatever five or six thousand dollars down payment,
So that makes it a lot more affordable. And that's
a twenty four month lease, so thank yeah, into the
next one two years later and that that to me,
that is a much better proposition. But yeah, I was
(13:39):
surprised at how much I loved it. The interior I
think is a step forward from the Challenger that I have.
The exterior is very cool. I wouldn't say it's better
than the old Challenger, it's different. And uh yeah, the
driving characteristics I just was I was blown away by Yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:56):
I mean, I think kudos kudos are order for this
car because it could have gone really bad and probably
a lot of people were are happy to hate it. Yes,
but it's cool that, like, you know, they they kind
of threaded that needle really well.
Speaker 2 (14:12):
But the other weird thing is so after I drove
it for a week, then I get back into my
six point four Leader v eight Challenger and it feels
so slow. You know wow. I mean, my car has
four hundred and eighty five horse power, four hundred and
seventy pound feet of torque, and it was like, it's
(14:34):
dangerously slow because I had grown used to this EV
torque and being you know, I'm weaving in New York traffic,
so I need to be precise in how quickly I'm
passing a car and jumping in front of it before
I hit the car in front of me. And you know,
doing that in any automatic car it just isn't going
to work, like if you have a manual transmission. It's
(14:54):
much better with an IC. But uh, yeah, I think
when people get used to EV's it's going to be
a little bit more dangerous for them to drive gas cars. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:02):
I love that you called a Challenger dangerously slow. That's hilarious.
But that does show where we are right now, like
this is the reality.
Speaker 2 (15:18):
By the way, Tesla, I will say, Tesla is a
I don't know too much about Tesla cars because I
thought they were exciting, like you know, fifteen years ago
and to.
Speaker 1 (15:28):
Need a complete overhaul. Nothing.
Speaker 2 (15:30):
Nothing seems to have changed with the exception of the
cyber truck, So I don't care about Tesla's anymore. Also,
the interior is so spartan and boring. But what's this
story about a diner? Why is everyone talking about the
Tesla Diner? Is it just really one restaurant?
Speaker 1 (15:47):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's a drive in. It's literally a
drive in diner that looks kind of fetsany It's on
Santa Monica Boulevard and Hollywood, you know, very close to
where I live. And it's possibly a very well timed
distraction from Tesla's really poor earnings reports and everything else
(16:09):
negative that's going on with the company and with Elon
Musk these days. But it is kind of this like
positive shining light. And I have to say, I don't
own a Tesla. I agree with you that you know
their products are getting a little bit tired and do
need a major refresh more than we saw with the model.
(16:31):
Why so I went into it pretty skeptical, But I
will say I think it's very cool that an automaker
is putting resources into building things that celebrate its customers.
And at this Tesla diner, they're eighty superchargers there. I
(16:51):
mean the line I went a couple times. The first
first two times I went, Actually I just kept on
driving because the line was so long. I did not
I couldn't. I just emotionally could not stand in that line.
But there is a lot of excitement, a lot of
They've done a very good job of creating a lot
of hype and the sense of community for their owners,
(17:13):
and that is it's kind of nice to see again.
I you know, I'm not in the cult, and I
do think it's a bit of a cult, but it
was cool to see how much they have put into
this and at the end of the day, yeah, it's
a drive in. It's got hamburgers, it's got a tuna melt,
it's got grilled cheese, it's got chili cheese fries.
Speaker 2 (17:36):
How were they but pretty good? Pretty good.
Speaker 1 (17:39):
I'm not a real chili cheese fry connoisseur, but it
is wagu beef and the menu is developed by Eric Greenspan,
who's a pretty big deal here in LA. He's a
well known chef who has created his own New American
cheese blend, among other things. He trained at licord On Blue,
so he's a nice you know. He was actually there
(18:01):
at the Dina when I was there and we chatted,
So the not bad I will say that not bad,
it was edible. I would go back. I would go
back and I would happily order.
Speaker 2 (18:12):
I would crush some chili cheese fries. I am a
chat cheese fries person.
Speaker 1 (18:17):
Yeah, honestly. And Eric told me this great story. He
was like, you know, when I was in high school,
I was a little overweight, and I would have one
cheat day in high school and on my cheat day,
I'd go to Tommy's, like you know, original Tommies and
get their chili cheese fries. So when I developed my
own version, I needed it to taste like how I
remembered my high school cheat day, and I don't know,
(18:41):
it was sweet. And yeah, they're pretty good.
Speaker 2 (18:43):
That's I think. That's so cool because, you know, as
I drive more and more evs, I noticed how bad
the charging infrastructure is here. It's better than it is
in Italy, but you know, they put these high speed
chargers in random like strip mall parking lots or you know,
(19:03):
just places where there's nothing to do. And yeah, Tesla
is much better at it. Near me in Scarsdale, there's
a Tesla supercharger that's at a Starbucks. And that's I
think still pretty boring, but at least there's something there
and it's always packed. So I think it's super smart
(19:24):
for them to put someplace where you can spend time,
spend money, and amuse yourself while you're waiting for these
vehicles to charge, because even though the charging times are
lower and lower, it's still ten or twenty minutes where
you know, or a half hour where you need to
do something, And it makes a lot of sense.
Speaker 1 (19:44):
Yeah, I completely agree, And you know, especially in southern
California where we have such a culture of like diners
and drive ins and drive throughs, it does make a
lot of sense. And we don't you know, we saw
the big news where the owner of In and Out
is moving out of California. So this was like actually
(20:04):
kind of a cool like, hey, Tesla's Tesla's stay in
in a way in California, not completely.
Speaker 2 (20:10):
Yeah, in a way they're in and they're out. They're
a little bit of defense there. You know. One of
the cool things about Tesla is they build almost all
of the cars that they sell in the US, or
they build all of the cars that they sell in
America in America, and it's not as much as you know,
the major incumbent automakers, you know, build in terms of volume.
But I've noticed that companies building cars in America now
(20:34):
are facing what looked like mounting penalties from tariffs that
are even worse than foreign importers. So I started to
think about this initially because of Ford. As I was
prepping for my interview with Jim Farley, the CEO, ahead
of their earnings, we were getting more and more announcements
(20:56):
about fifteen percent blanket tariffs. So for the now, fifteen
percent is all they pay, and then they ship a
car over here, or if they build a car in Japan,
fifteen percent and then here now South Korea fifteen percent
and then here. Meanwhile, if you're you know, a Tesla
building cars here or a Ford, which is a much
bigger deal because they have so much more volume, you're
(21:19):
paying fifty percent tariff on steel, fifty percent tariff on aluminum,
twenty five percent tariff on foreign parts, up to eighty
percent stacked tariffs on Chinese magnets and any parts of
that touch. So that adds up and up and up
and up. And Jim Farley told me that if you
(21:39):
look at a head to head comparison of like a
Ford Edge or a Japanese built Toyota Rev four or
a Ford Bronco or a Japanese built for Runner. The
costs for Ford are now five to ten thousand dollars
more to build a car in America than it would
be if they shipped, if they outsourced their manufacturing to Japan.
Speaker 1 (22:04):
It's huge, right, Wow, that's insane. I mean, did he
say what they're Are they eating that cost? Are they
passing it on?
Speaker 2 (22:12):
They're able to pass some of it on, They're able
to squeeze their suppliers to some extent, but they have
to eat some of it as well. And it's also like,
you know, the automatic question is, Jim, why don't you
just build F one fifties in Japan. Obviously they're not
going to do that, but the Trump administration started this
policy ostensibly to get manufacturing back to America, but it's
(22:35):
having the opposite effects. So Toyota, they're not going to
build Forerunners here if they can build them for five
thousand dollars cheaper there. And labor costs play into it
as well, because labor costs are much lower in Japan
than they are all in in the US. But it
also raises very interesting questions for General Motors, which is
the biggest importer of cars into the US market. It
(22:58):
builds obviously it's tracks and trailblazers in Korea, and now
they've got the fifteen percent blanket tariff there. So GM
will make more money building those cars in Japan in
South Korea than it will building cars in the US. Yeah,
and so that's got to encourage them to shift more
production outside of this country. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:21):
So what was Jim's takeaway? I mean, like, does he
have any solution? Is he completely depressed? I mean, he's what,
what's his vibe?
Speaker 2 (23:33):
His vibe is upbeat, and you know, he's just he
was born to compete, so this is like, you know,
this is what he does. But the response is they're
working with the administration and they have been obviously since
day one. But they're working very closely, and so is
obviously General Motors, and so are I guess most of
(23:54):
the other car makers. Not sure how much Tesla is
working with the administration as much, but I'm sure they
still talk a lot. I don't know what the solution is,
Like he said tariffs have to be thirty to forty
percent before it encourages car makers to shift production back
into the US and obviously that's not going to happen
(24:15):
because we're making deals, right, So I guess the only
other option is if you give maybe US car manufacturers
car vouts on the tariffs that that they have to
pay on the input components. And I asked, like, why
don't you buy aluminum here instead of paying fifty percent
(24:35):
tariff on aluminum that you buy receives. But there just
isn't There just isn't that supply. It's just not possible.
Speaker 1 (24:42):
Wow. You know, all of this is communicating to me.
It's still incredibly volatile and chaotic, and the targets keep
moving and shifting all over the place, no pun intended,
and that makes it really difficult to plan, you know,
just in general, especially when your production cycle is multiple
years long. This just seems like it's an ongoing, you know,
(25:07):
tangle of chaos.
Speaker 2 (25:09):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (25:09):
I mean, is there there is? Although we I feel
like we've seen, Okay, this is what it's going to be,
and then this is what it's going to be, and
then this is what it keeps changing.
Speaker 2 (25:21):
Yep. It's true. And I mean if you remember when
these when the Trump tariff policy was first announced months ago.
Uh Farley went to testify in front of Congress and
he said that these tariffs are going to cause costs
and chaos. So you know the uncertainty, the volatility, that's
the chaos and the costs. I mean, we've just seen
drastic increases in car prices, and I guess you can
(25:43):
expect that to continue.
Speaker 1 (25:45):
Another good reason to buy a vintage car, if you
ask me, just keep buying the old.
Speaker 2 (25:50):
Stuff, absolutely, and that's what everyone's doing. So you see
these used car businesses like Carvana and others just soaring
the markets, giving them high and higher evaluations because it's
increasingly the case that even wealthy people simply cannot justify
paying the amount they have to for a new car
(26:11):
or a new car lease, and they instead go and
look at the secondhand market.
Speaker 1 (26:14):
Yeah, completely agree.
Speaker 2 (26:16):
What are you doing this week in Matt This weekend,
I am going to I'm test driving this a Cadillac Vistic,
So I'm great continuing my evy journey, and I'm putting
some new Baja designs, headlight and turn signals on my
(26:36):
Harley Davidson Fat Bob, as well as a bunch of
other new components that I got. So my wife and
kids are away, so I sit in the garage and
work on my bike.
Speaker 1 (26:46):
Nice, nice, love it.
Speaker 2 (26:47):
What about you have it?
Speaker 1 (26:49):
Well, I'm going to a good in Christie's auction preview
in Van Nis, an auction preview for the Monterey Car
Week auctions, So I'm looking forward to that. It's kind
of a tease for all the good stuff we'll see
in modern way later.
Speaker 2 (27:02):
Very very cool. All right, cool, Well, we'll see you
back here, same time, same place next week. I'm Matt Miller,
and
Speaker 1 (27:07):
I'm Hannah Elliott, and this is Bloomberg.
Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio News. I'm Matt Miller and
I'm Hannah Elliott, and this is Hot Pursuit.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
All right, we have well, we have kind of a
shorter podcast day because you have to rush off and
research a very cool story.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
I'm excited to talk about it.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
I want to hear about that. Maybe you can quickly
explain it to us. Plus, we're going to compare notes
on the Dodge Charger Daytona scat pack because we've both
driven in.
Speaker 1 (00:40):
Yeah, which is code for it's an electric muscle car.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
Yeah. And I have to think I have a lot
on EV's like you have a story on the Tesla Diner,
so I want to get into what that is. And
I also want to talk a little bit about Ford
because I interviewed Jim Farley this week and we're getting
more tariff news is which creates an interesting conundrum or
(01:04):
or maybe unintended consequences for the Trump administration rules. So
let's start all of that with just a brief Can
you give us a brief synopsis of where you're going,
of what you're doing, Yes.
Speaker 1 (01:18):
Just briefly. I am going to visit Ben Tuona, who
is a really talented stained glass fabricator and really master
craftsman who works in his shop in Glendale. We are
doing a really big photo shoot and feature on his work,
(01:38):
which has been seen a little bit in pieces here
and there, but hasn't really been featured properly. He has
started putting stained glass in Old Portchas an old nine
to eleven, an old three five six. So I don't
want to say too much more about it, but it's
a really feel good story. It involves some things local
(02:00):
to California. It's a family business, et cetera, et cetera.
So I'm really excited to go talk to Ben in
a few minutes.
Speaker 2 (02:07):
Yeah, I'm looking forward to seeing that story, definitely seeing
the photos, but also hearing about the growth in that
business and you know, just how that that family has
been able to nurture like this craft, this artisan you
know skill, yeah, or old world skill into a marketable talent. Okay,
(02:30):
let's let's talk a little about this. Dodge Charger is
the Dodge Charger EV which, first of all, you know,
I have a Dodge Challenger scat pack, so I have
the two door muscle car, the gas powered one that
Dodge basically ended production of in twenty twenty three, and
(02:51):
so for me, I was really fascinated to see what
driving the EV version of it would be. It's already
weird because they call it a Charger instead of a Challenge,
and it is a two door. It is essentially the
new version of the Challenger, So I don't know why
they did that name switch, but yeah, I was shocked
at how much I absolutely loved the vehicle.
Speaker 1 (03:13):
Yes, oh, I'm so happy to hear that, because I
also loved it. But I'm not the core audience or demographic,
you know, you really, Matt, are like the core person
who's going to care about it and have a lot
of gripes and you're gonna know why you hate it
or why you love it. So I also had a
lot of fun, but I don't own something in this wheelhouse,
(03:36):
So what did you love about it?
Speaker 2 (03:37):
Yeah? It's interesting because the I think the core audience
is the very last target market that you would want
to try and sell an EV to. Like muscle car
guys like the smell, they like the sound, they like
the vibes, they like almost the anachronistic, you know point
of these big gas guzzling, big motors. And so they're
(04:03):
really not interested in EV's and they even have kind
of like a violent reaction against EV's in general. So
no idea why they Dodge thought this was a good idea,
but I think it's just one more of the ways
that Carlos Tavares like almost destroyed this company in his
tenure at CEO. But I loved it because it really,
(04:24):
to me looks like an early seventies evolution of If
the Challenger is like a late sixties muscle car, I'm
talking about the new version, so it isn't, but if
it is, then this is kind of the early seventies
evolution of that. And you know, in the seventies things
kind of went wrong for muscle cars, but at the
(04:45):
very beginning, I think they were still pretty cool, and
this has that totally that vibe for me. The design
is it's moved forward and so it's not as aggressive
and brutal, but it's I think in a in a
cool way. It's it's a little bit more elegant, and
it has some really cool touches, like the front splitter
(05:08):
you can see through it goes kind of their two
holes in the hood, which is awesome. But everything I
love about my My Challenger still is maintained in terms
of the feel, you know, the interior feel. It's big
and roomy. It's it's kind of like a boat, although
it handles better than My Challenger. It's a heavy car,
(05:29):
so it's a great cruiser. And the ev power train
I think works really cool because you know, zero sixty
is nothing. It's like three seconds and you're there, and
that's that's what you want from these drag cars.
Speaker 1 (05:44):
Yes, and I think if I remember, it's like six
hundred and seventy horsepower and almost the same amount of
torque like in the in the six hundred range, maybe
six thirty something like that.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
You're almost exactly spot on. It is six seventy horse
power and I think six twenty seven.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
Torque, yeah, which is like awesome. And I love that
it's back to the design. I love that it's two doors.
I think they are coming with the four door version later.
I don't know if they're still going to do that.
When I drove it in January, they said they were.
I hope maybe that's still the pend I don't know,
But because your Challenger is a it's a four door vehicle, right.
Speaker 2 (06:21):
No, the Challenger has always been the two door and
the four door is the charger. That's why it's weird
that they put out this two door and they call
it a charger.
Speaker 1 (06:29):
It's a little confusing, Okay, So yeah, so that explains, Like, yeah,
it's a it's a little odd to me that they
did that. But I do like that this is a
two door and it's got that cool fratzog logo like
kind of everywhere, which I also thought full throwback.
Speaker 2 (06:47):
Totally love love that logo. I will say that the
when I first took delivery of this vehicle and turned
it on, I was like, cool, it is loud, and
of not yes, and when you put it into sport
mode it gets louder, and when you put it into
track or drag mode, it gets even louder. But then
(07:08):
after a couple of minutes of driving it, I was
like desperately searching for ways to turn that off.
Speaker 1 (07:14):
Yeah, And did you ultimately turn it off?
Speaker 2 (07:16):
Yes? And now like and so I actually I don't
have it anymore. But for the week that I had it,
you know, I had the sound on for the first
couple of days, initially every time I drove it, and
then I would go into the system, it's pretty easy
to turn it off. But then and they call it
stealth mode. But then, for the last like three or
four days I was driving it, I had it only
in stealth mode because it it really is too loud
(07:38):
and too annoying to have on all the time when
you're driving.
Speaker 1 (07:41):
Yeah, I actually don't hate a stealth mode these days.
You know, we talked, we've talked before about stealth mode
and Lamborghini's which I actually think is pretty functional and usable.
I like, I do like that. Where did you drive it?
Did you take this anywhere special? Well?
Speaker 2 (07:58):
I didn't take it anywhere special per se, But my
usual places to go are I drive out to Bedford,
New York, or I drive up to Bear Mountain, and
I also drive out on Long Island. So I did
all three of those things, and I loved, absolutely loved
driving it. In fact, there were times I have a
(08:20):
summer house on or my parents have a summer house
on the beach on Fire Island, and normally when I
go out there, I want to stay out as long
as I can, and I'll come back, like on a
Monday morning on the Red Eye, so I can get
to work without having to leave the beach sooner, but
this time I wanted to leave almost as soon as
I got there, just to go drive the car again.
(08:40):
Like it's that kind of addictive handling characteristic or has
those handling characteristics that are so addicted that I wanted
to drive it as much as I could. And obviously
that says a lot of good things about the vehicle,
and it's I haven't ever really felt that way about
an electric vehicle, but this one just it turns in
(09:03):
so well, it holds in the corner so well. Obviously
it accelerates out of a corner amazingly. But all of
those miles on it really brought to the forefront the
biggest weakness, or one of the top two big weaknesses
for this car, and that is the range. It's almost nothing.
It's like one hundred I think I charged it to
eighty eighty eight percent and I had one hundred and
(09:24):
sixty seven miles of forecasted range, which is oh no,
not good, horrible, right at all.
Speaker 1 (09:32):
That's not even close to competitive. I mean, three hundred
is like expected by now, three hundred.
Speaker 2 (09:37):
Miles absolutely, So that's one of the big big drawbacks
of this vehicle, and the other one is the price. Now,
this was the top of the line model, so and
like Dodge does amazingly well, they put a million different
names in it. So it's the Dodge Charger Daytona SCAT pack,
and that's the best one they offer for now. I
think they're off there coming out with an even more
(09:59):
blazing vehicle. But seventy eight thousand dollars in change is
how much they're charging for this before delivery fee. So
it's an eighty thousand dollars car. That's just insane. That's
a hellcat.
Speaker 1 (10:12):
Now, yes, I think you can. They have the Daytona RT,
which is like the entry level version, which might be
closer to sixty thousand dollars. So to your point, this
is sort of the top end of it. But that
is expensive. But then when you try to think, like
what are the competitor cars to this? And I asked
that about the price, because what other Tudor electric sports
(10:38):
cars are there? There really aren't any. Like, I mean,
you can another Tudor EV sports car.
Speaker 2 (10:45):
You could say. Someone will say a Tesla.
Speaker 1 (10:48):
Right, yeah, but that's not a two door. They don't
sell two door sports cars that are electric.
Speaker 2 (10:54):
Good point, I always I always think, I don't know
why of the Model three is a two door, but
it's not. Yeah, I know, I can't think of any
but I wouldn't, so that's not how my mind works.
Speaker 1 (11:06):
Okay, let me just say and then I want to
hear your thought. Maybe the Corvette E Ray, like that's
a that's like electric, you know, tudor I mean, there's
not a lot in this segment. It's kind of a
weird segment.
Speaker 2 (11:23):
True, it is. You know, it's interesting that you point
that out, because I was trying to think of the
competitors to this, and I wasn't thinking of just EV cars,
And to me, that says how good it is. When
I'm trying to think of the competition, I'm not thinking
of pure evs. Because it was I thought as thrilling
to drive as any car I've driven, you know recently,
(11:47):
full stop. So yeah, but the problem is it's not
as thrilling to drive as any eighty thousand dollars car
I've driven, because I when I think of cars in
that range, I immediately think of the BMW and that
is a far better car.
Speaker 1 (12:03):
Or what about a Cayman, you know? What about you
know seven eighteen.
Speaker 2 (12:07):
I like this better, to be honest, but because I
have Yeah, because I have specific you know needs in
that I'm six foot three, right, so I like, that's
why I bought a Dodge Challenger. I like these big,
roomy boats. And obviously that's not what a seventeen seven
eighteen is. But also a seven eighteen we've talked about before.
(12:29):
It's it's a momentum car. You've got to get up
to speed before it becomes fun. And it doesn't get
up to speed as quickly as this. This is like boom, instantaneous.
So but but the M two was like the M
two is a rocket. And if I had eighty thousand
dollars to buy a two door sports car, I think
there would just be a long list of you know,
(12:51):
vehicles I would buy before this, the Corvette, just the
Sting Ray I would either have than this.
Speaker 1 (12:57):
That's I completely agree. It's just more car, it's more everything.
But I do kind of think it's cool if you
did buy this, you would really like get a lot
of people curious and interested about it. It's interesting. It's
a really interesting choice. It's not it's not the go to,
that's for sure, but it's interesting to me.
Speaker 2 (13:16):
I also noticed that they are offering insane lease deals.
So even though it's eighty thousand dollars to buy, you
could lease it for six hundred dollars a month, you know,
with the whatever five or six thousand dollars down payment,
So that makes it a lot more affordable. And that's
a twenty four month lease, so thank yeah, into the
next one two years later and that that to me,
that is a much better proposition. But yeah, I was
(13:39):
surprised at how much I loved it. The interior I
think is a step forward from the Challenger that I have.
The exterior is very cool. I wouldn't say it's better
than the old Challenger, it's different. And uh yeah, the
driving characteristics I just was I was blown away by Yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:56):
I mean, I think kudos kudos are order for this
car because it could have gone really bad and probably
a lot of people were are happy to hate it. Yes,
but it's cool that, like, you know, they they kind
of threaded that needle really well.
Speaker 2 (14:12):
But the other weird thing is so after I drove
it for a week, then I get back into my
six point four Leader v eight Challenger and it feels
so slow. You know wow. I mean, my car has
four hundred and eighty five horse power, four hundred and
seventy pound feet of torque, and it was like, it's
(14:34):
dangerously slow because I had grown used to this EV
torque and being you know, I'm weaving in New York traffic,
so I need to be precise in how quickly I'm
passing a car and jumping in front of it before
I hit the car in front of me. And you know,
doing that in any automatic car it just isn't going
to work, like if you have a manual transmission. It's
(14:54):
much better with an IC. But uh, yeah, I think
when people get used to EV's it's going to be
a little bit more dangerous for them to drive gas cars. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:02):
I love that you called a Challenger dangerously slow. That's hilarious.
But that does show where we are right now, like
this is the reality.
Speaker 2 (15:18):
By the way, Tesla, I will say, Tesla is a
I don't know too much about Tesla cars because I
thought they were exciting, like you know, fifteen years ago
and to.
Speaker 1 (15:28):
Need a complete overhaul. Nothing.
Speaker 2 (15:30):
Nothing seems to have changed with the exception of the
cyber truck, So I don't care about Tesla's anymore. Also,
the interior is so spartan and boring. But what's this
story about a diner? Why is everyone talking about the
Tesla Diner? Is it just really one restaurant?
Speaker 1 (15:47):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's a drive in. It's literally a
drive in diner that looks kind of fetsany It's on
Santa Monica Boulevard and Hollywood, you know, very close to
where I live. And it's possibly a very well timed
distraction from Tesla's really poor earnings reports and everything else
(16:09):
negative that's going on with the company and with Elon
Musk these days. But it is kind of this like
positive shining light. And I have to say, I don't
own a Tesla. I agree with you that you know
their products are getting a little bit tired and do
need a major refresh more than we saw with the model.
(16:31):
Why so I went into it pretty skeptical, But I
will say I think it's very cool that an automaker
is putting resources into building things that celebrate its customers.
And at this Tesla diner, they're eighty superchargers there. I
(16:51):
mean the line I went a couple times. The first
first two times I went, Actually I just kept on
driving because the line was so long. I did not
I couldn't. I just emotionally could not stand in that line.
But there is a lot of excitement, a lot of
They've done a very good job of creating a lot
of hype and the sense of community for their owners,
(17:13):
and that is it's kind of nice to see again.
I you know, I'm not in the cult, and I
do think it's a bit of a cult, but it
was cool to see how much they have put into
this and at the end of the day, yeah, it's
a drive in. It's got hamburgers, it's got a tuna melt,
it's got grilled cheese, it's got chili cheese fries.
Speaker 2 (17:36):
How were they but pretty good? Pretty good.
Speaker 1 (17:39):
I'm not a real chili cheese fry connoisseur, but it
is wagu beef and the menu is developed by Eric Greenspan,
who's a pretty big deal here in LA. He's a
well known chef who has created his own New American
cheese blend, among other things. He trained at licord On Blue,
so he's a nice you know. He was actually there
(18:01):
at the Dina when I was there and we chatted,
So the not bad I will say that not bad,
it was edible. I would go back. I would go
back and I would happily order.
Speaker 2 (18:12):
I would crush some chili cheese fries. I am a
chat cheese fries person.
Speaker 1 (18:17):
Yeah, honestly. And Eric told me this great story. He
was like, you know, when I was in high school,
I was a little overweight, and I would have one
cheat day in high school and on my cheat day,
I'd go to Tommy's, like you know, original Tommies and
get their chili cheese fries. So when I developed my
own version, I needed it to taste like how I
remembered my high school cheat day, and I don't know,
(18:41):
it was sweet. And yeah, they're pretty good.
Speaker 2 (18:43):
That's I think. That's so cool because, you know, as
I drive more and more evs, I noticed how bad
the charging infrastructure is here. It's better than it is
in Italy, but you know, they put these high speed
chargers in random like strip mall parking lots or you know,
(19:03):
just places where there's nothing to do. And yeah, Tesla
is much better at it. Near me in Scarsdale, there's
a Tesla supercharger that's at a Starbucks. And that's I
think still pretty boring, but at least there's something there
and it's always packed. So I think it's super smart
(19:24):
for them to put someplace where you can spend time,
spend money, and amuse yourself while you're waiting for these
vehicles to charge, because even though the charging times are
lower and lower, it's still ten or twenty minutes where
you know, or a half hour where you need to
do something, And it makes a lot of sense.
Speaker 1 (19:44):
Yeah, I completely agree, And you know, especially in southern
California where we have such a culture of like diners
and drive ins and drive throughs, it does make a
lot of sense. And we don't you know, we saw
the big news where the owner of In and Out
is moving out of California. So this was like actually
(20:04):
kind of a cool like, hey, Tesla's Tesla's stay in
in a way in California, not completely.
Speaker 2 (20:10):
Yeah, in a way they're in and they're out. They're
a little bit of defense there. You know. One of
the cool things about Tesla is they build almost all
of the cars that they sell in the US, or
they build all of the cars that they sell in
America in America, and it's not as much as you know,
the major incumbent automakers, you know, build in terms of volume.
But I've noticed that companies building cars in America now
(20:34):
are facing what looked like mounting penalties from tariffs that
are even worse than foreign importers. So I started to
think about this initially because of Ford. As I was
prepping for my interview with Jim Farley, the CEO, ahead
of their earnings, we were getting more and more announcements
(20:56):
about fifteen percent blanket tariffs. So for the now, fifteen
percent is all they pay, and then they ship a
car over here, or if they build a car in Japan,
fifteen percent and then here now South Korea fifteen percent
and then here. Meanwhile, if you're you know, a Tesla
building cars here or a Ford, which is a much
bigger deal because they have so much more volume, you're
(21:19):
paying fifty percent tariff on steel, fifty percent tariff on aluminum,
twenty five percent tariff on foreign parts, up to eighty
percent stacked tariffs on Chinese magnets and any parts of
that touch. So that adds up and up and up
and up. And Jim Farley told me that if you
(21:39):
look at a head to head comparison of like a
Ford Edge or a Japanese built Toyota Rev four or
a Ford Bronco or a Japanese built for Runner. The
costs for Ford are now five to ten thousand dollars
more to build a car in America than it would
be if they shipped, if they outsourced their manufacturing to Japan.
Speaker 1 (22:04):
It's huge, right, Wow, that's insane. I mean, did he
say what they're Are they eating that cost? Are they
passing it on?
Speaker 2 (22:12):
They're able to pass some of it on, They're able
to squeeze their suppliers to some extent, but they have
to eat some of it as well. And it's also like,
you know, the automatic question is, Jim, why don't you
just build F one fifties in Japan. Obviously they're not
going to do that, but the Trump administration started this
policy ostensibly to get manufacturing back to America, but it's
(22:35):
having the opposite effects. So Toyota, they're not going to
build Forerunners here if they can build them for five
thousand dollars cheaper there. And labor costs play into it
as well, because labor costs are much lower in Japan
than they are all in in the US. But it
also raises very interesting questions for General Motors, which is
the biggest importer of cars into the US market. It
(22:58):
builds obviously it's tracks and trailblazers in Korea, and now
they've got the fifteen percent blanket tariff there. So GM
will make more money building those cars in Japan in
South Korea than it will building cars in the US. Yeah,
and so that's got to encourage them to shift more
production outside of this country. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:21):
So what was Jim's takeaway? I mean, like, does he
have any solution? Is he completely depressed? I mean, he's what,
what's his vibe?
Speaker 2 (23:33):
His vibe is upbeat, and you know, he's just he
was born to compete, so this is like, you know,
this is what he does. But the response is they're
working with the administration and they have been obviously since
day one. But they're working very closely, and so is
obviously General Motors, and so are I guess most of
(23:54):
the other car makers. Not sure how much Tesla is
working with the administration as much, but I'm sure they
still talk a lot. I don't know what the solution is,
Like he said tariffs have to be thirty to forty
percent before it encourages car makers to shift production back
into the US and obviously that's not going to happen
(24:15):
because we're making deals, right, So I guess the only
other option is if you give maybe US car manufacturers
car vouts on the tariffs that that they have to
pay on the input components. And I asked, like, why
don't you buy aluminum here instead of paying fifty percent
(24:35):
tariff on aluminum that you buy receives. But there just
isn't There just isn't that supply. It's just not possible.
Speaker 1 (24:42):
Wow. You know, all of this is communicating to me.
It's still incredibly volatile and chaotic, and the targets keep
moving and shifting all over the place, no pun intended,
and that makes it really difficult to plan, you know,
just in general, especially when your production cycle is multiple
years long. This just seems like it's an ongoing, you know,
(25:07):
tangle of chaos.
Speaker 2 (25:09):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (25:09):
I mean, is there there is? Although we I feel
like we've seen, Okay, this is what it's going to be,
and then this is what it's going to be, and
then this is what it keeps changing.
Speaker 2 (25:21):
Yep. It's true. And I mean if you remember when
these when the Trump tariff policy was first announced months ago.
Uh Farley went to testify in front of Congress and
he said that these tariffs are going to cause costs
and chaos. So you know the uncertainty, the volatility, that's
the chaos and the costs. I mean, we've just seen
drastic increases in car prices, and I guess you can
(25:43):
expect that to continue.
Speaker 1 (25:45):
Another good reason to buy a vintage car, if you
ask me, just keep buying the old.
Speaker 2 (25:50):
Stuff, absolutely, and that's what everyone's doing. So you see
these used car businesses like Carvana and others just soaring
the markets, giving them high and higher evaluations because it's
increasingly the case that even wealthy people simply cannot justify
paying the amount they have to for a new car
(26:11):
or a new car lease, and they instead go and
look at the secondhand market.
Speaker 1 (26:14):
Yeah, completely agree.
Speaker 2 (26:16):
What are you doing this week in Matt This weekend,
I am going to I'm test driving this a Cadillac Vistic,
So I'm great continuing my evy journey, and I'm putting
some new Baja designs, headlight and turn signals on my
(26:36):
Harley Davidson Fat Bob, as well as a bunch of
other new components that I got. So my wife and
kids are away, so I sit in the garage and
work on my bike.
Speaker 1 (26:46):
Nice, nice, love it.
Speaker 2 (26:47):
What about you have it?
Speaker 1 (26:49):
Well, I'm going to a good in Christie's auction preview
in Van Nis, an auction preview for the Monterey Car
Week auctions, So I'm looking forward to that. It's kind
of a tease for all the good stuff we'll see
in modern way later.
Speaker 2 (27:02):
Very very cool. All right, cool, Well, we'll see you
back here, same time, same place next week. I'm Matt Miller,
and
Speaker 1 (27:07):
I'm Hannah Elliott, and this is Bloomberg.
Hosts And Creators
Hannah Elliott
Matt Miller
Popular Podcasts
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
My Favorite Murder is a true crime comedy podcast hosted by Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark. Each week, Karen and Georgia share compelling true crimes and hometown stories from friends and listeners. Since MFM launched in January of 2016, Karen and Georgia have shared their lifelong interest in true crime and have covered stories of infamous serial killers like the Night Stalker, mysterious cold cases, captivating cults, incredible survivor stories and important events from history like the Tulsa race massacre of 1921. My Favorite Murder is part of the Exactly Right podcast network that provides a platform for bold, creative voices to bring to life provocative, entertaining and relatable stories for audiences everywhere. The Exactly Right roster of podcasts covers a variety of topics including historic true crime, comedic interviews and news, science, pop culture and more. Podcasts on the network include Buried Bones with Kate Winkler Dawson and Paul Holes, That's Messed Up: An SVU Podcast, This Podcast Will Kill You, Bananas and more.
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com