December 26, 2025 • 25 mins
As a holiday present to our listeners we bring back one of our fan favorite episodes. McLaren Racing Chief Executive Officer Zak Brown joins Hannah Elliott and Matt Miller to discuss McLaren's ascendance this season in Formula 1, why Indy Car could use some tips from Liberty Media to help it expand. Plus, Brown suggests the Monaco Grand Prix could go away and F1 would be just fine without it.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio News. I'm Hannah Elliott and
I'm Matt Miller.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
This is Hot Pursuit coming up on today's podcast.
Speaker 3 (00:19):
We have a special gift Zach Brown. You may have
heard of him. He's in motorsport if you will.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
He's a champion.
Speaker 3 (00:26):
He's a champion, and you know, it's kind of nuts.
He's an American working for a British company.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
And he's a car collector.
Speaker 1 (00:33):
And he's a car collector, car guy, great driver himself.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
And he's a boss. He's a CEO.
Speaker 3 (00:39):
He's a boss. It's unbelievable.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
Not only is he the boss of McLaren F one,
he's the boss of all of McLaren Racing, which is
a big, big job.
Speaker 4 (00:50):
Yeah, he has to be at a lot of different
places at the same time. But the coolest part is
me and Hannah we're not even here.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
We're recording this a week ahead of time.
Speaker 3 (01:01):
We're coming to you from the future and the past.
Speaker 4 (01:03):
So happy Boxing Day. This is a pre recorded episode
and it's meant as a special gift to Clarence who
emailed us Hot Pursuit at Bloomberg dot Net is our
email address. He emailed us and said, you guys should
have Zach Brown on.
Speaker 3 (01:18):
So so here you go. We aim to please asking
you shall.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
Receive Merry Christmas. Clarence.
Speaker 1 (01:24):
I love talking to Zach Brown because he is articulate
and he is not so media trained that he's really boring.
Speaker 3 (01:32):
He is, I think, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
He just speaks in straight lines, there's nobs. He answers
questions directly. It's a dream and he's a real Yeah,
he's a.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
Real person, yes exactly.
Speaker 3 (01:46):
And he's crazy.
Speaker 1 (01:47):
It is crazy though, how chill he comes off when
you consider everything he's running and operating, yes, schedules, it's insane.
It's he's I mean, did you know that McLaren is
the only company to win the Indy five hundred twenty
four hour Lament and Monaco?
Speaker 2 (02:05):
I did not know that.
Speaker 4 (02:06):
Let's get over to Zach Brown, CEO of McLaren without
any further ado.
Speaker 1 (02:11):
You know McLaren is the only team that competes in
Formula one IndyCar, Formula E. You've got Extreme E, you've
got esports. My big question for you is how do
you get.
Speaker 3 (02:20):
It all done?
Speaker 1 (02:22):
Can you give us some best practices for how this
is sustainable? For you. I know you just renewed your
contract until I think twenty thirty. How are you finding
your life sustainable and even joyful? I follow you on Instagram,
of course, and you've got you seem very well at
ease and like you're enjoying things. But I know you're
(02:42):
probably paddling furiously underneath everything.
Speaker 5 (02:47):
It's all the above. First, I love my job.
Speaker 6 (02:51):
I love McLaren, always have my favorite team growing up,
and it's a privilege to work for McLaren. So it's
a pretty pretty cool job. That's a great place to
start from. The travels brutal. I think the secret to success,
if you'd like, is having a great leadership team around me.
And each racing team is self sufficient, so the IndyCar
(03:13):
team isn't dependent upon the F one team isn't dependent
upon the former team. There's a lot of commercial centergies
opportunities for our employees sentergy, so there's a lot of synergies.
But they know the Formula one team here in Montreal
doesn't need anything from the IndyCar team, and the Indiecar
team doesn't need anything from the team Formula one, so
(03:33):
they can all run independently. The benefit is when you
put them all together for our commercial partners, for employee opportunities.
I'm kind of the only fool that flies around the
world trying to be in all places at one time.
Speaker 5 (03:50):
But I love it.
Speaker 6 (03:50):
It's what I've been doing my whole whole life. It
certainly has its days where you know, you can just
get tired, but I'm never tired of it. I just
sometimes lack sleep, but you know, I love being around
these racing teams. Fortunately, in the digital world we live in,
if I'm in the eighty five hundred, I've got my
double triple top secret Dell laptop like I am onm
(04:13):
pit walls, So I feel like I'm very connected to
the Formula One team, even if I'm not there. So
big organization, but we're in the racing business and it's
all running pretty smoothly.
Speaker 2 (04:23):
By the way.
Speaker 4 (04:24):
You have been at the Helm, not not only for
the resurgence of your team, but really for the resurgence
of the sport and racing. I mean, I read a
comment you were talking about the fact that Williams was
sold for one hundred and fifty million a few years back,
and now it's worth at least ten x and I
just think, you know, the popularity of this already incredibly
(04:46):
popular sport has grown so much in the last few years.
Is that all down to drive to survive or to
what do you attribute that?
Speaker 6 (04:54):
I don't think it's all down to drive to survive,
but I think it's definitely played a big role. I
think what it's all down to is liberty and when
they acquired the sport, the way they've reshaped the sport
focus on the fan, get the teams to kind of
show that the fans behind the curtain, you know how
the sport works, which I think Netflix has played a
(05:14):
big role there. So I think where the credits do
is due to liberty. Netflix has certainly had its role
within that. But look at what's happened in North America.
We've gone from one race to three races and new
television partner Netflix got Brad Pitt movie. You know who
isn't going to watch the next Brad Pitt movie and
going to be Brad Pitt Formula one driver. So we've
(05:35):
brought in women to the sport, we brought a youth
to the sport. We've really made great strides and sustainability.
So I think you've got to look at what liberty
has done for the sport as a whole, and are
the participants in.
Speaker 5 (05:49):
It the way we've embraced it.
Speaker 6 (05:50):
And it took a little bit of time, you know,
when Netflix came out year one, Mercedes and Ferrari didn't participate,
which was a bit of old school thinking, you know,
we don't.
Speaker 5 (05:59):
Want to show what's.
Speaker 6 (06:00):
Buck behind the scenes, or the money's not great enough.
And I think what the sport has woken up to
and is embraced is let's focus on the fan and
then everything else will fall into place. And that's exactly
what we've done. And we have more fans than we've
ever had, more Grand Prix than we've ever had, ten
unbelievably healthy racing teams. So it's like everything is just green, green, green,
(06:24):
go go go right now in Form one. And to me,
what's really exciting is I don't see that trajectory going
anywhere other than North because the racing's getting even better
and the teams are healthier, and we have demand for
more Grand Prix than ever, so I think in many
ways we're just getting started.
Speaker 1 (06:44):
Can there ever be too many Grand Prix in North America?
I mean we're at five, and there always seems to
be rumbling that there could be one in Chicago or
New York. You know, is there a critical mass so
to speak?
Speaker 6 (07:00):
I think there is, and I think we're there now,
and I'll break that down for you. I think twenty
four races is the maximum we can do. It's a
brutal number. I'm put aside the fact that I would
go race fifty two times a year. I wouldn't be
very popular with my racing team if I was a
proponent of that. But I'm a little bit a petrol
(07:21):
in my blood, not that others don't. So twenty four,
I think is the max I think we need to.
I'd be an advocate of like twenty fixed races, an
eight that rotate every other year, so you maintain the
twenty four race schedule, but you continue to grow the
reach and the markets because the demand is there. Then
of course, who are those that get it every other year?
(07:44):
I think we're maximum capacity in America's you know three
in North three in the States, Canada, Mexico, Brazil.
Speaker 5 (07:52):
That's awesome.
Speaker 6 (07:53):
I don't think While I think the sport would embrace more,
I think that would come to the detriment of other
parts of the world. I'd love to see another race
or two in Asia. I'd love to see us in
South Africa, you know, et cetera. So I think the
sport and the fans would embrace more races. But I
(08:14):
think we're a global championship and we have some other
pockets of the world we need to work on. So
I think the only way you could bring in another
North American race is if that became part of a rotation.
Because again, I'd love to see us in Korea. I'd
love to see us in Thailand. We almost got into Vietnam.
I'd love South South Africa, some of these other territories
(08:36):
and uh to make sure that we continue to expand
our our global footprint.
Speaker 5 (08:41):
India would be a great market to be in.
Speaker 1 (08:44):
UH.
Speaker 5 (08:44):
So, So I think we're in a good, good place
in America.
Speaker 2 (08:47):
Can you bail on Monaco?
Speaker 3 (08:48):
I was just gonna ask that that's what we are?
Speaker 4 (08:51):
I mean, honestly, Zachy, can't they just do qualifying and
then go to a cocktail party?
Speaker 5 (08:55):
Because could we bail on Monaco? We could?
Speaker 6 (08:58):
You know, I think the sport is so strong and
we have so many awesome races, you know, could we
we could, should we will we? I don't think we
should and I don't think we will, but could we?
Speaker 3 (09:15):
Yes, I think alternating years.
Speaker 6 (09:18):
I mean, you know, certainly that could could fall into
that camp if you'd like. Uh, you know, the spectacle
is still amazing. The TV ratings are still very strong.
Of course, it isn't a you know, it's a pure race.
It has the least amount of passing, always has, always will.
(09:39):
I think, you know, the sport is commercially so strong
that you know, it's always kind of had one of
the more favorable uh terms and conditions. I think they
need to get caught up there because you know, we
are in a commercial sport, and one could argue, wait
a minute, some of these other venues are driving some
(10:00):
the TV ratings, you know, great racing and contributing a
lot more to the growth of the sport fiscally. You know,
you've got the Miamis, the Vegas Is, the Singapore's. I mean,
these are all awesome races.
Speaker 5 (10:15):
So I'd be.
Speaker 6 (10:17):
Surprised if it didn't stay on the calendar. But if
it went away, would it create a lot of noise
in the short term?
Speaker 5 (10:23):
Yes? Would people move on and formula one be as
strong as ever. I think it would do.
Speaker 4 (10:30):
You get more recognition in the US by far for
F one because Indy has been so exciting the last
few years. And when I was a kid in the
middle of America, people packed up RVs and went to
Indianapolis like it was the greatest spectacle in racing. But
it just seems like F one has eclipsed every other
league by far.
Speaker 5 (10:51):
Formula one has done an amazing job. I think there
is a lot Indy Car could learn from Formula one.
Speaker 6 (10:58):
I think there's a lot Formula one can can learn
from IndyCar. We can all learn from each other's sport,
but Formal one's done an unbelievable job. Yes, you know,
I do get a lot more commentary if you'd like,
when I'm in North America about Formula One than IndyCar.
Speaker 5 (11:16):
I think there's a.
Speaker 6 (11:17):
Tremendous amount of untapped potential in IndyCar, but we need
to pick up the pace. I think there's a lot
of opportunity, some of which were seizing and other areas
that we need to catch up on, and we need
to kind of throw it up a gear or two,
and I'm confident we will. But there's a lot of opportunity,
(11:38):
and I think we need to pick up the pace
because it wasn't long ago Formula One had no profile
in North America and now you know, we do have
to ask ourselves with our IndyCar had on put aside
Indy five hundred television ratings, why does Formula One have
greater television ratings than IndyCar in our home mark? Get
(12:00):
in awkward time zones where we only race a few
times a year, and I think that's a bit of
a wake up call. Is too we can be and
should be doing a better job because the racing and
the product is great. So we have to ask ourselves,
why is Miami and Monaco when, to your point, wasn't
(12:21):
the most exciting racing. Why is Monaco getting a bigger
television rating in our home market than all of our
other race is outside of the ND five hundred.
Speaker 5 (12:30):
So I think it's a bit of a wake up call.
Speaker 1 (12:38):
Are you saying that Indie needs a rebrand A complete
my branding?
Speaker 6 (12:45):
I think there I wouldn't necessarily say rebranded. I think
we need to continue to really focus on the consumer.
I think there's a lot of room for improvement around
our digital experience, our outreach to the fans. I think
we could use a refresh of the product. Our racing
(13:06):
cars have been around for quite some time. I think, uh,
the calendar has room for improvement. So I think there's
lots of opportunity. We just need to seize it. I'm
confident we will. There's a lot of conversations going on around,
you know, freshening up the products. I don't think necessarily
needs a rebrand, but I need to.
Speaker 5 (13:25):
I think it needs a refreshing. I mean, I think
we have to.
Speaker 6 (13:28):
Be real when looking at the data and the statistics
and go, you know what, why does Formula one come
into our home market and not long ago had lesser
television ratings and now has greater television ratings. So I
think that uh, you know, you know, but I think
the good news is I think the product is great.
Speaker 5 (13:46):
We just need to do a better job.
Speaker 4 (13:47):
Roger Penske needs to call John alone.
Speaker 5 (13:52):
I'll leave that to Roger and John. Well.
Speaker 3 (13:54):
I'm curious.
Speaker 1 (13:55):
You know, it is ironic that an American company, Liberty
Media is the is, like you said, sort of the
catalyst to launching Formula one in the US and really
making it acceptable to American consumers. That just seems ironic.
Does it take an American sensibility to translate some of
(14:17):
these at least European style raising obviously.
Speaker 4 (14:21):
So glad they bought MotoGP Yeah, which is already amazing.
Speaker 5 (14:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (14:24):
I think they're gonna do great with Moto GP. I
think the you know, and you never want to kind
of stereotype region.
Speaker 1 (14:31):
Sure.
Speaker 6 (14:31):
I think we've got to give a lot of credit
to Austin Coda. They did a fantastic job during and
Formula one back, and then it's just built on itself,
and you know, you need date equity. People need to
get familiar with the drivers. And I think what Netflix did,
especially in North America, is kind of lift the cover
off of how does the sport work, and the personalities.
Speaker 5 (14:52):
And the drama and the politics.
Speaker 6 (14:54):
And I think, you know, the American fan really likes
to get personal with the their sport, and I think
Formula One historically pre Liberty, been a little bit of
a look but don't touch type of sport, and now
it's a let us get to know these twenty awesome
(15:15):
racing drivers and the team bosses, the man. I think
fans around the world and I think the reason why
it's had such a big impact in America is I
think it's always been big in Europe and understood, but
it was kind of like a fresh sport to America
and Netflix helped kind of put that front and center
(15:36):
and people have responded and it's been great. I get
more commentary now from people in America that.
Speaker 5 (15:43):
Go, and it'll be.
Speaker 6 (15:45):
A guy, a father, a husband, and I can't tell
you often he goes. My daughter loves Form and my
daughter loves Lando Norris or my wife won't stop watching it.
And what it's done is it's taken, which is I
think been the most amazing part.
Speaker 5 (16:00):
It's taking people.
Speaker 6 (16:00):
From having no awareness to avid fan overnight. I hear
so often I won't miss a Grand Prix now versus
I'm aware and I kind of like it. They're like
diehard fans. So it's been amazing and we just need
to continue to build on that.
Speaker 4 (16:14):
Does it make a difference to your sales, Zach, I mean,
especially as you guys have started on a winning run lately,
are you is it possible to sell more McLaren's.
Speaker 7 (16:25):
Went on Sunday, Yeah, definitely, Yeah, exactly A good old
phrase it doesn't quite work that easily. We don't see
necessarily big spikes on Monday, but you can see the
North America is our biggest, biggest market for our automotive
business and continues to grow.
Speaker 6 (16:40):
And you can see how many McLaren automotive fans or
fans of the Formula One team and vice versa. So
we're fortunate, like a few others in the sport, where
we've got these two awesome brands in the world to
collide and we help scratch each other's back.
Speaker 1 (16:56):
If you like, what do you drive?
Speaker 2 (16:58):
Yeah? Do you what do you like to drive?
Speaker 6 (17:00):
Well, my daily driver is a bit more of a
range rover because it's not the easiest place in the
world to navigate. Of course, I've got my McLaren's in
the garage. But I'm a I'm a car junkie. So
if your name is sports car, I've got one of those.
Speaker 3 (17:13):
Can you collect too, right? Memorabilia? Sports memorabilia.
Speaker 6 (17:17):
Yeah, I'm a big baseball fan, ice hockey fan as
far as collecting collectible documents, so I've got a.
Speaker 5 (17:25):
Pretty awesome collection. It's all my childhood.
Speaker 6 (17:30):
Dreams and I wanted to be a baseball player an
ice hockey player didn't quite work out, but I'm fortunate
now a lot of baseball players, hockey players, golfers, or
fans of the sport, So it's a it's a privilege
being in the position I'm in to be able to
meet a lot of my heroes and idols growing up.
I don't think they quite realize it, because I think
(17:51):
they're equally as excited to kind of come to a
Formula One race, But it's it's pretty cool having Albert
PUOs and Paul Goldschmidt and Timo Solani and as I mentioned,
I'm when I have dinner with Mark Messier, who I've
not met through a mutual friend, which I'm very excited
because I grew up watching Mark. He's an awesome player,
and so excited to meet him. It makes me feel
(18:14):
like I'm thirteen fourteen again, even though they probably don't
appreciate that.
Speaker 5 (18:17):
Dating them now, I want.
Speaker 1 (18:19):
To ask, I see you drinking something out of a
tea cup. I imagine it's tea. How has it been
as an American living in the UK?
Speaker 3 (18:27):
You know, do you remind.
Speaker 1 (18:29):
Yourself adjusting to quirky British lifestyles?
Speaker 5 (18:33):
Yeah? One hundred percent.
Speaker 6 (18:36):
But you know, back when I was racing, I lived
in England, so I live there from ninety one to
ninety four.
Speaker 5 (18:41):
I've been there now, it's about twelve years.
Speaker 6 (18:44):
I love Europe, love England, I love traveling, always been
a fan of it. I definitely think I've picked up
some of the the quirks, if you'd like to call
him that, But I haven't left my American ones behind
it all.
Speaker 5 (18:59):
So I'm a bit of a now.
Speaker 6 (19:01):
No one can quite figure out my accent or but
still kind of sounds the same to me.
Speaker 4 (19:06):
By the way, when I'm looking through bring a trailer,
which is like an addiction for me. It annoys me
when I see a right hand drive car that I
want because it's just it's just wrong. Do you buy
right hand drive cars? I mean for your car, I
got a.
Speaker 5 (19:19):
Bit of everything.
Speaker 6 (19:20):
I mean, if I have a choice, then I'm buying
a left hand drive. But I have both in the
in the collection. It kind of depends. If it's a
British car, you're gonna end up with a right hand drive,
you know, as it should be about plenty of left
hand drive.
Speaker 5 (19:36):
I'd say I'm probably three corps.
Speaker 4 (19:38):
When you want a car. Do you know what you
want and find it, or do you look around and
something strikes your fancy and you're like, oh, I like that.
Speaker 5 (19:45):
It kind of.
Speaker 6 (19:46):
Depends if it's a road car, if it's a race car.
If it's a road car, I know what I want.
I kind of know where to go. I've got a
few dealer friends. If you like that, will will sort
me out. If it's a race car, you can either
kind of react. So one that I'd been chasing for
years was Nigel Mansell's Indy Championship car from nineteen ninety three.
(20:09):
Never had any success, and then Newman Hass put it
up for auction and I was all over that. So
the race cars, you kind of know what you want,
but they're not necessarily always for sales, So sometimes it's
reacting when you see something that comes on the market.
Speaker 1 (20:26):
Do you think the price goes up when people realize
who they're selling to, or do you try to keep
it a little anonymous if you're interested.
Speaker 6 (20:38):
It kind of depends who it is and what it is.
You know, you meant to bring a trailer. That was
one where I hid.
Speaker 3 (20:46):
You know, tell us your handles.
Speaker 6 (20:50):
I had a friend do it for me a buddy
named Allan where McLaren's motor home from nineteen seventy two,
and I bought this a few years ago, and I
think at one auction story of the year where it
was McLaren's nineteen seventy two motor home.
Speaker 5 (21:07):
It was awesome, a Ford Condor, and I.
Speaker 6 (21:11):
Was like, I definitely have to have this, but I
don't want anyone to know who's bidding for it. And
the owner had had it for quite some time, so
I had my buddy bid. He won it, and then
everyone it was quite a little bit of a bidding war,
and then my buddy said, well, you're an never going
to outbid the CEO of McLaren And then everyone just
(21:35):
went nuts, including the owner, who had a bit of
a tiary moment because he had it for quite some time.
He wanted to go to the right home and you know,
no one knew and that and became quite a cool story.
And I love sharing the history of the sport with everyone.
I'm happy to share that I'm the biggest fan of
(21:57):
motorsports and the history of the sports. I feel like
it's part of my role. I remember what an impression
when I went to the Long Beach Grand Prix in
nineteen eighty one. It made on me as a ten
year old, and so I feel part of my role
at McLaren is to share how cool this sport is.
Speaker 5 (22:16):
With the fans.
Speaker 6 (22:17):
So I'm always stopping and talking to them, happy to
share these stories. And when you get into the car
collection and things of that nature, you know, while I
have them in my racing facility, we get them out.
I like to share them, like to tell people the
stories because I know what an impression it made on me,
and I hope that someone you know, ten twenty thirty
(22:40):
years from now goes.
Speaker 5 (22:41):
I remember meeting Zach and it was cool.
Speaker 6 (22:43):
He let me look at the car, He introduced me
to Lando, He stopped and talk to me, because that's
what our sport is about.
Speaker 5 (22:47):
It's about the fans.
Speaker 4 (22:49):
By the way, on that note, do you and you
mentioned bringing more women in the sport, and Hannah and
I talk a lot about the academy and trying to
get more women to drive. How do you who groom
young talent? Do you have specific programs for that? When
you're talking to little girls and boys, do you say, hey,
you guys should try doing some laps in the go cart.
Speaker 2 (23:11):
I mean, how does that work?
Speaker 6 (23:13):
Yeah, you know, one, it's about creating awareness so people
you want to get involved in motorsports. Obviously the driving
is the most famous part, but you know it's important
to us to get young boys and girls involved in
all aspects of the sport, whether they want to be
engineers or marketeers or racing drivers, whatever the case may be.
(23:37):
So a lot of it is about just creating awareness
so there's excitement to participate. And then it's about creating opportunity,
so we have we just announced a program called sixty Scholars.
Last year was our sixty year birthday and it was
sixty opportunities for young women ages eighteen to twenty three
(23:59):
to get involved with McLaren around STEM. So we're just
trying to create awareness opportunity. It's why we got involved
in extremely where you have a male and female racing driver.
Speaker 5 (24:11):
So we had, for the first.
Speaker 6 (24:12):
Ever time a couple of years ago announced first ever
female McLaren racing driver. We've extended that to the F
one Academy, which is an all female racing series. So
we're doing everything we can to create awareness, create opportunity
to have a more diverse workforce and fan base and
it's exciting.
Speaker 1 (24:34):
So that was Zach Brown, and wow, what a treat
to have him. He always says something that is new
or interesting or just sort of changes how I understand
racing an American car culture.
Speaker 3 (24:48):
I really he's great.
Speaker 2 (24:50):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (24:50):
I mean, for example, the fact that F one could
possibly go without Monaco. He made me kind of understand
that in a way that I haven't and thinking about
the last few weeks, like not that they don't want
to and he doesn't think they will, but they could
survive because they're strong enough that they don't need it.
Speaker 3 (25:08):
That does it for this week's show.
Speaker 1 (25:09):
Remember to follow and subscribe to Hot Pursuit on Apple, Spotify,
and anywhere else you listen. You can also send us
your comments. Email us at hot Pursuit at bloomberg dot net.
Speaker 4 (25:19):
Check out Hannah's columns and stories on Bloomberg dot com
and the Bloomberg Business app. Go there for car reviews,
events and stories that you won't find anywhere else. Find
it all at Bloomberg dot com, slash Pursuit, slash Autos.
Speaker 2 (25:30):
I'm Matt Miller and
Speaker 1 (25:32):
I'm Hannah Elliott will be back in your podcast feed
again next week,
Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio News. I'm Hannah Elliott and
I'm Matt Miller.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
This is Hot Pursuit coming up on today's podcast.
Speaker 3 (00:19):
We have a special gift Zach Brown. You may have
heard of him. He's in motorsport if you will.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
He's a champion.
Speaker 3 (00:26):
He's a champion, and you know, it's kind of nuts.
He's an American working for a British company.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
And he's a car collector.
Speaker 1 (00:33):
And he's a car collector, car guy, great driver himself.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
And he's a boss. He's a CEO.
Speaker 3 (00:39):
He's a boss. It's unbelievable.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
Not only is he the boss of McLaren F one,
he's the boss of all of McLaren Racing, which is
a big, big job.
Speaker 4 (00:50):
Yeah, he has to be at a lot of different
places at the same time. But the coolest part is
me and Hannah we're not even here.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
We're recording this a week ahead of time.
Speaker 3 (01:01):
We're coming to you from the future and the past.
Speaker 4 (01:03):
So happy Boxing Day. This is a pre recorded episode
and it's meant as a special gift to Clarence who
emailed us Hot Pursuit at Bloomberg dot Net is our
email address. He emailed us and said, you guys should
have Zach Brown on.
Speaker 3 (01:18):
So so here you go. We aim to please asking
you shall.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
Receive Merry Christmas. Clarence.
Speaker 1 (01:24):
I love talking to Zach Brown because he is articulate
and he is not so media trained that he's really boring.
Speaker 3 (01:32):
He is, I think, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
He just speaks in straight lines, there's nobs. He answers
questions directly. It's a dream and he's a real Yeah,
he's a.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
Real person, yes exactly.
Speaker 3 (01:46):
And he's crazy.
Speaker 1 (01:47):
It is crazy though, how chill he comes off when
you consider everything he's running and operating, yes, schedules, it's insane.
It's he's I mean, did you know that McLaren is
the only company to win the Indy five hundred twenty
four hour Lament and Monaco?
Speaker 2 (02:05):
I did not know that.
Speaker 4 (02:06):
Let's get over to Zach Brown, CEO of McLaren without
any further ado.
Speaker 1 (02:11):
You know McLaren is the only team that competes in
Formula one IndyCar, Formula E. You've got Extreme E, you've
got esports. My big question for you is how do
you get.
Speaker 3 (02:20):
It all done?
Speaker 1 (02:22):
Can you give us some best practices for how this
is sustainable? For you. I know you just renewed your
contract until I think twenty thirty. How are you finding
your life sustainable and even joyful? I follow you on Instagram,
of course, and you've got you seem very well at
ease and like you're enjoying things. But I know you're
(02:42):
probably paddling furiously underneath everything.
Speaker 5 (02:47):
It's all the above. First, I love my job.
Speaker 6 (02:51):
I love McLaren, always have my favorite team growing up,
and it's a privilege to work for McLaren. So it's
a pretty pretty cool job. That's a great place to
start from. The travels brutal. I think the secret to success,
if you'd like, is having a great leadership team around me.
And each racing team is self sufficient, so the IndyCar
(03:13):
team isn't dependent upon the F one team isn't dependent
upon the former team. There's a lot of commercial centergies
opportunities for our employees sentergy, so there's a lot of synergies.
But they know the Formula one team here in Montreal
doesn't need anything from the IndyCar team, and the Indiecar
team doesn't need anything from the team Formula one, so
(03:33):
they can all run independently. The benefit is when you
put them all together for our commercial partners, for employee opportunities.
I'm kind of the only fool that flies around the
world trying to be in all places at one time.
Speaker 5 (03:50):
But I love it.
Speaker 6 (03:50):
It's what I've been doing my whole whole life. It
certainly has its days where you know, you can just
get tired, but I'm never tired of it. I just
sometimes lack sleep, but you know, I love being around
these racing teams. Fortunately, in the digital world we live in,
if I'm in the eighty five hundred, I've got my
double triple top secret Dell laptop like I am onm
(04:13):
pit walls, So I feel like I'm very connected to
the Formula One team, even if I'm not there. So
big organization, but we're in the racing business and it's
all running pretty smoothly.
Speaker 2 (04:23):
By the way.
Speaker 4 (04:24):
You have been at the Helm, not not only for
the resurgence of your team, but really for the resurgence
of the sport and racing. I mean, I read a
comment you were talking about the fact that Williams was
sold for one hundred and fifty million a few years back,
and now it's worth at least ten x and I
just think, you know, the popularity of this already incredibly
(04:46):
popular sport has grown so much in the last few years.
Is that all down to drive to survive or to
what do you attribute that?
Speaker 6 (04:54):
I don't think it's all down to drive to survive,
but I think it's definitely played a big role. I
think what it's all down to is liberty and when
they acquired the sport, the way they've reshaped the sport
focus on the fan, get the teams to kind of
show that the fans behind the curtain, you know how
the sport works, which I think Netflix has played a
(05:14):
big role there. So I think where the credits do
is due to liberty. Netflix has certainly had its role
within that. But look at what's happened in North America.
We've gone from one race to three races and new
television partner Netflix got Brad Pitt movie. You know who
isn't going to watch the next Brad Pitt movie and
going to be Brad Pitt Formula one driver. So we've
(05:35):
brought in women to the sport, we brought a youth
to the sport. We've really made great strides and sustainability.
So I think you've got to look at what liberty
has done for the sport as a whole, and are
the participants in.
Speaker 5 (05:49):
It the way we've embraced it.
Speaker 6 (05:50):
And it took a little bit of time, you know,
when Netflix came out year one, Mercedes and Ferrari didn't participate,
which was a bit of old school thinking, you know,
we don't.
Speaker 5 (05:59):
Want to show what's.
Speaker 6 (06:00):
Buck behind the scenes, or the money's not great enough.
And I think what the sport has woken up to
and is embraced is let's focus on the fan and
then everything else will fall into place. And that's exactly
what we've done. And we have more fans than we've
ever had, more Grand Prix than we've ever had, ten
unbelievably healthy racing teams. So it's like everything is just green, green, green,
(06:24):
go go go right now in Form one. And to me,
what's really exciting is I don't see that trajectory going
anywhere other than North because the racing's getting even better
and the teams are healthier, and we have demand for
more Grand Prix than ever, so I think in many
ways we're just getting started.
Speaker 1 (06:44):
Can there ever be too many Grand Prix in North America?
I mean we're at five, and there always seems to
be rumbling that there could be one in Chicago or
New York. You know, is there a critical mass so
to speak?
Speaker 6 (07:00):
I think there is, and I think we're there now,
and I'll break that down for you. I think twenty
four races is the maximum we can do. It's a
brutal number. I'm put aside the fact that I would
go race fifty two times a year. I wouldn't be
very popular with my racing team if I was a
proponent of that. But I'm a little bit a petrol
(07:21):
in my blood, not that others don't. So twenty four,
I think is the max I think we need to.
I'd be an advocate of like twenty fixed races, an
eight that rotate every other year, so you maintain the
twenty four race schedule, but you continue to grow the
reach and the markets because the demand is there. Then
of course, who are those that get it every other year?
(07:44):
I think we're maximum capacity in America's you know three
in North three in the States, Canada, Mexico, Brazil.
Speaker 5 (07:52):
That's awesome.
Speaker 6 (07:53):
I don't think While I think the sport would embrace more,
I think that would come to the detriment of other
parts of the world. I'd love to see another race
or two in Asia. I'd love to see us in
South Africa, you know, et cetera. So I think the
sport and the fans would embrace more races. But I
(08:14):
think we're a global championship and we have some other
pockets of the world we need to work on. So
I think the only way you could bring in another
North American race is if that became part of a rotation.
Because again, I'd love to see us in Korea. I'd
love to see us in Thailand. We almost got into Vietnam.
I'd love South South Africa, some of these other territories
(08:36):
and uh to make sure that we continue to expand
our our global footprint.
Speaker 5 (08:41):
India would be a great market to be in.
Speaker 1 (08:44):
UH.
Speaker 5 (08:44):
So, So I think we're in a good, good place
in America.
Speaker 2 (08:47):
Can you bail on Monaco?
Speaker 3 (08:48):
I was just gonna ask that that's what we are?
Speaker 4 (08:51):
I mean, honestly, Zachy, can't they just do qualifying and
then go to a cocktail party?
Speaker 5 (08:55):
Because could we bail on Monaco? We could?
Speaker 6 (08:58):
You know, I think the sport is so strong and
we have so many awesome races, you know, could we
we could, should we will we? I don't think we
should and I don't think we will, but could we?
Speaker 3 (09:15):
Yes, I think alternating years.
Speaker 6 (09:18):
I mean, you know, certainly that could could fall into
that camp if you'd like. Uh, you know, the spectacle
is still amazing. The TV ratings are still very strong.
Of course, it isn't a you know, it's a pure race.
It has the least amount of passing, always has, always will.
(09:39):
I think, you know, the sport is commercially so strong
that you know, it's always kind of had one of
the more favorable uh terms and conditions. I think they
need to get caught up there because you know, we
are in a commercial sport, and one could argue, wait
a minute, some of these other venues are driving some
(10:00):
the TV ratings, you know, great racing and contributing a
lot more to the growth of the sport fiscally. You know,
you've got the Miamis, the Vegas Is, the Singapore's. I mean,
these are all awesome races.
Speaker 5 (10:15):
So I'd be.
Speaker 6 (10:17):
Surprised if it didn't stay on the calendar. But if
it went away, would it create a lot of noise
in the short term?
Speaker 5 (10:23):
Yes? Would people move on and formula one be as
strong as ever. I think it would do.
Speaker 4 (10:30):
You get more recognition in the US by far for
F one because Indy has been so exciting the last
few years. And when I was a kid in the
middle of America, people packed up RVs and went to
Indianapolis like it was the greatest spectacle in racing. But
it just seems like F one has eclipsed every other
league by far.
Speaker 5 (10:51):
Formula one has done an amazing job. I think there
is a lot Indy Car could learn from Formula one.
Speaker 6 (10:58):
I think there's a lot Formula one can can learn
from IndyCar. We can all learn from each other's sport,
but Formal one's done an unbelievable job. Yes, you know,
I do get a lot more commentary if you'd like,
when I'm in North America about Formula One than IndyCar.
Speaker 5 (11:16):
I think there's a.
Speaker 6 (11:17):
Tremendous amount of untapped potential in IndyCar, but we need
to pick up the pace. I think there's a lot
of opportunity, some of which were seizing and other areas
that we need to catch up on, and we need
to kind of throw it up a gear or two,
and I'm confident we will. But there's a lot of opportunity,
(11:38):
and I think we need to pick up the pace
because it wasn't long ago Formula One had no profile
in North America and now you know, we do have
to ask ourselves with our IndyCar had on put aside
Indy five hundred television ratings, why does Formula One have
greater television ratings than IndyCar in our home mark? Get
(12:00):
in awkward time zones where we only race a few
times a year, and I think that's a bit of
a wake up call. Is too we can be and
should be doing a better job because the racing and
the product is great. So we have to ask ourselves,
why is Miami and Monaco when, to your point, wasn't
(12:21):
the most exciting racing. Why is Monaco getting a bigger
television rating in our home market than all of our
other race is outside of the ND five hundred.
Speaker 5 (12:30):
So I think it's a bit of a wake up call.
Speaker 1 (12:38):
Are you saying that Indie needs a rebrand A complete
my branding?
Speaker 6 (12:45):
I think there I wouldn't necessarily say rebranded. I think
we need to continue to really focus on the consumer.
I think there's a lot of room for improvement around
our digital experience, our outreach to the fans. I think
we could use a refresh of the product. Our racing
(13:06):
cars have been around for quite some time. I think, uh,
the calendar has room for improvement. So I think there's
lots of opportunity. We just need to seize it. I'm
confident we will. There's a lot of conversations going on around,
you know, freshening up the products. I don't think necessarily
needs a rebrand, but I need to.
Speaker 5 (13:25):
I think it needs a refreshing. I mean, I think
we have to.
Speaker 6 (13:28):
Be real when looking at the data and the statistics
and go, you know what, why does Formula one come
into our home market and not long ago had lesser
television ratings and now has greater television ratings. So I
think that uh, you know, you know, but I think
the good news is I think the product is great.
Speaker 5 (13:46):
We just need to do a better job.
Speaker 4 (13:47):
Roger Penske needs to call John alone.
Speaker 5 (13:52):
I'll leave that to Roger and John. Well.
Speaker 3 (13:54):
I'm curious.
Speaker 1 (13:55):
You know, it is ironic that an American company, Liberty
Media is the is, like you said, sort of the
catalyst to launching Formula one in the US and really
making it acceptable to American consumers. That just seems ironic.
Does it take an American sensibility to translate some of
(14:17):
these at least European style raising obviously.
Speaker 4 (14:21):
So glad they bought MotoGP Yeah, which is already amazing.
Speaker 5 (14:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (14:24):
I think they're gonna do great with Moto GP. I
think the you know, and you never want to kind
of stereotype region.
Speaker 1 (14:31):
Sure.
Speaker 6 (14:31):
I think we've got to give a lot of credit
to Austin Coda. They did a fantastic job during and
Formula one back, and then it's just built on itself,
and you know, you need date equity. People need to
get familiar with the drivers. And I think what Netflix did,
especially in North America, is kind of lift the cover
off of how does the sport work, and the personalities.
Speaker 5 (14:52):
And the drama and the politics.
Speaker 6 (14:54):
And I think, you know, the American fan really likes
to get personal with the their sport, and I think
Formula One historically pre Liberty, been a little bit of
a look but don't touch type of sport, and now
it's a let us get to know these twenty awesome
(15:15):
racing drivers and the team bosses, the man. I think
fans around the world and I think the reason why
it's had such a big impact in America is I
think it's always been big in Europe and understood, but
it was kind of like a fresh sport to America
and Netflix helped kind of put that front and center
(15:36):
and people have responded and it's been great. I get
more commentary now from people in America that.
Speaker 5 (15:43):
Go, and it'll be.
Speaker 6 (15:45):
A guy, a father, a husband, and I can't tell
you often he goes. My daughter loves Form and my
daughter loves Lando Norris or my wife won't stop watching it.
And what it's done is it's taken, which is I
think been the most amazing part.
Speaker 5 (16:00):
It's taking people.
Speaker 6 (16:00):
From having no awareness to avid fan overnight. I hear
so often I won't miss a Grand Prix now versus
I'm aware and I kind of like it. They're like
diehard fans. So it's been amazing and we just need
to continue to build on that.
Speaker 4 (16:14):
Does it make a difference to your sales, Zach, I mean,
especially as you guys have started on a winning run lately,
are you is it possible to sell more McLaren's.
Speaker 7 (16:25):
Went on Sunday, Yeah, definitely, Yeah, exactly A good old
phrase it doesn't quite work that easily. We don't see
necessarily big spikes on Monday, but you can see the
North America is our biggest, biggest market for our automotive
business and continues to grow.
Speaker 6 (16:40):
And you can see how many McLaren automotive fans or
fans of the Formula One team and vice versa. So
we're fortunate, like a few others in the sport, where
we've got these two awesome brands in the world to
collide and we help scratch each other's back.
Speaker 1 (16:56):
If you like, what do you drive?
Speaker 2 (16:58):
Yeah? Do you what do you like to drive?
Speaker 6 (17:00):
Well, my daily driver is a bit more of a
range rover because it's not the easiest place in the
world to navigate. Of course, I've got my McLaren's in
the garage. But I'm a I'm a car junkie. So
if your name is sports car, I've got one of those.
Speaker 3 (17:13):
Can you collect too, right? Memorabilia? Sports memorabilia.
Speaker 6 (17:17):
Yeah, I'm a big baseball fan, ice hockey fan as
far as collecting collectible documents, so I've got a.
Speaker 5 (17:25):
Pretty awesome collection. It's all my childhood.
Speaker 6 (17:30):
Dreams and I wanted to be a baseball player an
ice hockey player didn't quite work out, but I'm fortunate
now a lot of baseball players, hockey players, golfers, or
fans of the sport, So it's a it's a privilege
being in the position I'm in to be able to
meet a lot of my heroes and idols growing up.
I don't think they quite realize it, because I think
(17:51):
they're equally as excited to kind of come to a
Formula One race, But it's it's pretty cool having Albert
PUOs and Paul Goldschmidt and Timo Solani and as I mentioned,
I'm when I have dinner with Mark Messier, who I've
not met through a mutual friend, which I'm very excited
because I grew up watching Mark. He's an awesome player,
and so excited to meet him. It makes me feel
(18:14):
like I'm thirteen fourteen again, even though they probably don't
appreciate that.
Speaker 5 (18:17):
Dating them now, I want.
Speaker 1 (18:19):
To ask, I see you drinking something out of a
tea cup. I imagine it's tea. How has it been
as an American living in the UK?
Speaker 3 (18:27):
You know, do you remind.
Speaker 1 (18:29):
Yourself adjusting to quirky British lifestyles?
Speaker 5 (18:33):
Yeah? One hundred percent.
Speaker 6 (18:36):
But you know, back when I was racing, I lived
in England, so I live there from ninety one to
ninety four.
Speaker 5 (18:41):
I've been there now, it's about twelve years.
Speaker 6 (18:44):
I love Europe, love England, I love traveling, always been
a fan of it. I definitely think I've picked up
some of the the quirks, if you'd like to call
him that, But I haven't left my American ones behind
it all.
Speaker 5 (18:59):
So I'm a bit of a now.
Speaker 6 (19:01):
No one can quite figure out my accent or but
still kind of sounds the same to me.
Speaker 4 (19:06):
By the way, when I'm looking through bring a trailer,
which is like an addiction for me. It annoys me
when I see a right hand drive car that I
want because it's just it's just wrong. Do you buy
right hand drive cars? I mean for your car, I
got a.
Speaker 5 (19:19):
Bit of everything.
Speaker 6 (19:20):
I mean, if I have a choice, then I'm buying
a left hand drive. But I have both in the
in the collection. It kind of depends. If it's a
British car, you're gonna end up with a right hand drive,
you know, as it should be about plenty of left
hand drive.
Speaker 5 (19:36):
I'd say I'm probably three corps.
Speaker 4 (19:38):
When you want a car. Do you know what you
want and find it, or do you look around and
something strikes your fancy and you're like, oh, I like that.
Speaker 5 (19:45):
It kind of.
Speaker 6 (19:46):
Depends if it's a road car, if it's a race car.
If it's a road car, I know what I want.
I kind of know where to go. I've got a
few dealer friends. If you like that, will will sort
me out. If it's a race car, you can either
kind of react. So one that I'd been chasing for
years was Nigel Mansell's Indy Championship car from nineteen ninety three.
(20:09):
Never had any success, and then Newman Hass put it
up for auction and I was all over that. So
the race cars, you kind of know what you want,
but they're not necessarily always for sales, So sometimes it's
reacting when you see something that comes on the market.
Speaker 1 (20:26):
Do you think the price goes up when people realize
who they're selling to, or do you try to keep
it a little anonymous if you're interested.
Speaker 6 (20:38):
It kind of depends who it is and what it is.
You know, you meant to bring a trailer. That was
one where I hid.
Speaker 3 (20:46):
You know, tell us your handles.
Speaker 6 (20:50):
I had a friend do it for me a buddy
named Allan where McLaren's motor home from nineteen seventy two,
and I bought this a few years ago, and I
think at one auction story of the year where it
was McLaren's nineteen seventy two motor home.
Speaker 5 (21:07):
It was awesome, a Ford Condor, and I.
Speaker 6 (21:11):
Was like, I definitely have to have this, but I
don't want anyone to know who's bidding for it. And
the owner had had it for quite some time, so
I had my buddy bid. He won it, and then
everyone it was quite a little bit of a bidding war,
and then my buddy said, well, you're an never going
to outbid the CEO of McLaren And then everyone just
(21:35):
went nuts, including the owner, who had a bit of
a tiary moment because he had it for quite some time.
He wanted to go to the right home and you know,
no one knew and that and became quite a cool story.
And I love sharing the history of the sport with everyone.
I'm happy to share that I'm the biggest fan of
(21:57):
motorsports and the history of the sports. I feel like
it's part of my role. I remember what an impression
when I went to the Long Beach Grand Prix in
nineteen eighty one. It made on me as a ten
year old, and so I feel part of my role
at McLaren is to share how cool this sport is.
Speaker 5 (22:16):
With the fans.
Speaker 6 (22:17):
So I'm always stopping and talking to them, happy to
share these stories. And when you get into the car
collection and things of that nature, you know, while I
have them in my racing facility, we get them out.
I like to share them, like to tell people the
stories because I know what an impression it made on me,
and I hope that someone you know, ten twenty thirty
(22:40):
years from now goes.
Speaker 5 (22:41):
I remember meeting Zach and it was cool.
Speaker 6 (22:43):
He let me look at the car, He introduced me
to Lando, He stopped and talk to me, because that's
what our sport is about.
Speaker 5 (22:47):
It's about the fans.
Speaker 4 (22:49):
By the way, on that note, do you and you
mentioned bringing more women in the sport, and Hannah and
I talk a lot about the academy and trying to
get more women to drive. How do you who groom
young talent? Do you have specific programs for that? When
you're talking to little girls and boys, do you say, hey,
you guys should try doing some laps in the go cart.
Speaker 2 (23:11):
I mean, how does that work?
Speaker 6 (23:13):
Yeah, you know, one, it's about creating awareness so people
you want to get involved in motorsports. Obviously the driving
is the most famous part, but you know it's important
to us to get young boys and girls involved in
all aspects of the sport, whether they want to be
engineers or marketeers or racing drivers, whatever the case may be.
(23:37):
So a lot of it is about just creating awareness
so there's excitement to participate. And then it's about creating opportunity,
so we have we just announced a program called sixty Scholars.
Last year was our sixty year birthday and it was
sixty opportunities for young women ages eighteen to twenty three
(23:59):
to get involved with McLaren around STEM. So we're just
trying to create awareness opportunity. It's why we got involved
in extremely where you have a male and female racing driver.
Speaker 5 (24:11):
So we had, for the first.
Speaker 6 (24:12):
Ever time a couple of years ago announced first ever
female McLaren racing driver. We've extended that to the F
one Academy, which is an all female racing series. So
we're doing everything we can to create awareness, create opportunity
to have a more diverse workforce and fan base and
it's exciting.
Speaker 1 (24:34):
So that was Zach Brown, and wow, what a treat
to have him. He always says something that is new
or interesting or just sort of changes how I understand
racing an American car culture.
Speaker 3 (24:48):
I really he's great.
Speaker 2 (24:50):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (24:50):
I mean, for example, the fact that F one could
possibly go without Monaco. He made me kind of understand
that in a way that I haven't and thinking about
the last few weeks, like not that they don't want
to and he doesn't think they will, but they could
survive because they're strong enough that they don't need it.
Speaker 3 (25:08):
That does it for this week's show.
Speaker 1 (25:09):
Remember to follow and subscribe to Hot Pursuit on Apple, Spotify,
and anywhere else you listen. You can also send us
your comments. Email us at hot Pursuit at bloomberg dot net.
Speaker 4 (25:19):
Check out Hannah's columns and stories on Bloomberg dot com
and the Bloomberg Business app. Go there for car reviews,
events and stories that you won't find anywhere else. Find
it all at Bloomberg dot com, slash Pursuit, slash Autos.
Speaker 2 (25:30):
I'm Matt Miller and
Speaker 1 (25:32):
I'm Hannah Elliott will be back in your podcast feed
again next week,
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