August 20, 2025 • 39 mins
Ford President and CEO Jim Farley joins to show to talk about his company and the potential Ford could develop a high-end supercar for off-road racing in the $300,000 price range.
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio News. I'm Matt Miller and
I'm Hannah Elliott and this is Hot Pursuit.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
And this is a very special edition of the podcast
because Hannah, you're at I mean you were last week
also at Monterey Car Week, but you're still there and
you just got to sit down in a room with
Fords CEO Jim Farley, who I guess has just finished
judging the concour This.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
Is actually kind of the like climax of the whole week.
We are in Casa Palmerow at the Pebble Beach Golf Links,
and it's basically the end of the day. Jim and
I both got up for dawn patrol, which is a
five forty five am commitment to watch the cars roll
onto the lawn. And then Jim of course has a
car that's entered into the Concora Lincoln, but also he's
(00:53):
the judge, so he just finished judging and came in
here to talk to us, which was a really great thing.
And of course we love to talk to him because
he's so fascinating to talk to and so passionate.
Speaker 3 (01:07):
Yes, yes, bleeds oil. Like it's unbelievable how much this
guy loves cars.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
It's so inspiring. And I don't want to gush because
everybody's different, but I will say not every automaker truly
loves and believes in the cars the way that Jim does.
It's on another level, you know. And it is really
fun to be around because he believed. He is a
true believer, for sure. It's fun.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
Let's get straight into the interview now, and I'll meet
you back here in thirty minutes.
Speaker 4 (01:42):
I was here at four because I was showing my
old Lincoln, so I got up at I was here
at four trying to get the car ready. We had
a fire during the tour or so, but we had
to repair the car this morning. And I'm also eleven
or twelve year into judging here. I'm a technical judge
of judge for Packards, so lat and I really loved
(02:04):
the early American cars, so I couldn't do both. My
son drove the car on the lawn. I couldn't do
dog control this year, and then I had to make
it to the judges boring breakfast.
Speaker 3 (02:16):
Wait, I want to hear about both of those cars. First.
Speaker 2 (02:19):
I've heard the Packard twelve cylinder motor was a model
that Enzo Ferrari loved.
Speaker 3 (02:25):
Is that true? What's the story with Packards?
Speaker 4 (02:29):
You know, if you ask Phil Hill or anyone who
knows about cars, they would tell you that Packard in
the twenties and thirties, you know, had even before that,
but really became you know, the Rolls Roycee in the
United States. It wasn't the fanciest car. You could buy
a Pierce or a Locomobile or others that were fancier,
but for the high end, mainstream you know, Dual cow
(02:51):
Phaeton Packard twelve cylinder of twin six is about it's
nice of a car, and they're completely silent. I mean
you turn on, they're even quieter than my K Lincoln.
They were very tasteful cars. They were understated. Their advertising
slogan was slightly out of touch today, but asked the
man who owns one kind of set it all, and
(03:14):
they were really the gold standard in our country. The
Packer plant in downtown Detroit was, you know, the place
to work if you were a factory work collect My
grandfather he worked at four but he would love to
get backer. It's no surprise because Packer took so much
pride in their twelve cylinder engine. They had no need
(03:35):
to come out with the sixteen like Cadillac. They thought
that was too heavy. And it's no surprise that they
became the license se for the Merlin engine in Worldworth
two and made all the engines for the P fifty ones.
Because they were so good at manufacturing and quality. It
was a great company. They you know, they didn't survive
(03:58):
much after that, but when they were on their game,
they were the best in the world.
Speaker 5 (04:03):
And you said, you're a technical judge, yes, what does
that entail? What are you looking for?
Speaker 4 (04:08):
It's a good question. We have basically a small point
range for elegance, and that's with a lot of negotiation
that goes into that because everyone's definition is different. But
you know, the most important thing is we're not going
to give you points off or let's say, you know,
you have a great piece of pain here or there.
It's not what people think. It's like that host clamp
(04:28):
is wrong. That's that sticker is actually not put on
the right way. We're not looking to get people, you know,
points off. We're looking at is that executed, that car
executed in the intent of the manufacturer's intention, especially the
engineering stuff like does stuff work as is spoil to work,
the vacuum, you know, wipers, they can work really well,
(04:52):
they don't work really well sometimes and a lot of
the owners don't really care as long as they work.
But for judges, we're looking for the manufacturer's intent when
they made the vehicle. But a lot of people get
it wrong. And there's a lot of people who spend
a lot of money on these fancy restorations, they actually
don't know about the cars. They don't know what it
should do and not do. And Packard had a lot
(05:14):
of good reasons to do what they did when they
braided a fuel line or when they when they didn't
you know, they had good engineering reasons for it. So
we're looking for technical compliance and the manufacturer's intent not
to ding people for like a sticker being there or not,
but you know, is it there to warn the customer
(05:35):
do not touch this. And we're looking for especially the
custom body vehicles. Are they elegant or are they cumbersome?
Could be a really expensive car that actually isn't very elegant.
There are a lot of those, so we look for
both elegance. The genesis of this was, of course the
Pebble Beach races and then not so modern idea, the
(05:57):
women would pick the most elegant car on Sunday, so
the guys would race. Really wealthy people would race on Saturday.
And eventually they moved out to Lundeseca because it was
so dangerous to race in the forest and this concourse
was an elegance. Yes, and you picked the most elegant car.
Speaker 1 (06:15):
You know, that's actually a great history that has never
been strung together. To me, that was the genesis.
Speaker 4 (06:20):
Of whole week. Ye it was always a week.
Speaker 5 (06:23):
Three years ago and Phil.
Speaker 4 (06:25):
Hill was the first person to win the road race,
and then he happened to win in his aunt car
one he restored it, won the concourse the same weekend,
same next day, and he wound up being the first
American world champion. So, yeah, this weekend is great. I
worked in a car restoration shop in fact Hills Hill
(06:48):
and Vaughn Phil's place. I put myself to graduate school.
I'm an interior guy, so I sew frogs, buffalo hide,
all sorts of crazy stuff that put myself to graduate school.
And I was a mechanic and I came up here
after we'd work on the cars for three or four
years we weren't allowed in the show. You'd have enough
(07:08):
money to be in the show. But we would drive
the cars on the lawn, you know, before there was
dawn patrol and all the mechanics are working on the cars.
We would look at each other's work and we'd said, hey,
you did a great job with that delage. What is that?
You know? And I got my PhD in the car
business as a mechanic here. Wow, and my wife what
(07:28):
was that?
Speaker 5 (07:28):
How many years?
Speaker 4 (07:29):
I was nineteen eighty.
Speaker 5 (07:31):
Five, So you've been coming for a lot.
Speaker 4 (07:33):
Yes, and for more than twenty years I camped at
the Monory.
Speaker 5 (07:36):
Camp gram or my wife that is so that's very authentic.
Speaker 4 (07:41):
I'm a complete dirt bag.
Speaker 5 (07:42):
Yeah, but I forward too.
Speaker 4 (07:46):
That's like my other part of my life. But the
real Jim Farley is an interior guy who frog yeah,
frog Yeah. It takes a lot of frogs to do it.
Speaker 3 (07:55):
It's a lot of hides. Wow, Jim, tell us about
your Lincoln.
Speaker 4 (08:02):
I was just going to say that, you know, I
always wanted to. I'm a kN of reverse commuter. You know,
I loved Cobras and I loved Porsches, and you know,
My first car I restored was that when my own
money was a three point fifty six Porsche in the
in the late seventies.
Speaker 5 (08:17):
And I was a little known fact.
Speaker 4 (08:19):
Yeah. I rebuilt the car in my apartment in Manhattan Beach,
and I did an outlaw car before there was such
a thing. It was all aluminum deck lid. And you know,
I did a lot to the car myself. And then
I moved up to Cobras and GT forties. I really
only liked race cars or cars that on the street
(08:39):
were intended to be race cars, so to speak. And
then maybe twenty years ago, I started to get more
intrigued by older cars, first their pre nineteen hundred cars,
steam and electric. And you know, in nineteen ten the
industry was a third a third to third, a third steam,
a third electric, and a third combustion.
Speaker 5 (08:58):
And is it true that the electrics marketed toward women.
Speaker 1 (09:01):
Oh?
Speaker 5 (09:01):
Yes, because they were clean, quiet, easier to offer.
Speaker 4 (09:04):
To operate, It didn't have to do any starting. It
was much and actually was better technology all around. Just
the batteries weren't advanced. I began to look at race
cars from pre war. I bought a four and a
half Leter Bentley. It was just normally aspirated Bentley. But
I really loved those cars. They won them all for
(09:25):
four years, and you know they were incredible cars, and
we won them all four times at four to two,
and you know, they made their brand and kind of GT.
Forty made our brand in a way. And so I
was looking for an early car. But I'm very I'm
a stickler. I like original cars, so like my Bronco,
(09:48):
my seventy two Bronco I bought off a Montana farmer
and I looked for twenty years to get a car,
and I've been looking at I've been after this car
for way before I came to Ford. It's a twelve
cylinder le baron vinyl topped Coop, which is very unusual
for these big cars to be a small coup and
I love Coop design. I have a LOTSI Eurelia that
(10:10):
I want bless the class here, best class here, and
I like Coop design. I don't like open cars other
than Bentley, because I think it's more of a beautiful
design and that designer is intent. So I was looking
for this car for a long time. It took me
more than twenty years to Finally there's only five that
wherever built. And it's the first year that Pierce had
(10:32):
the copyright for the integrating their headlamp into the fender.
This was at the time, Yes, it was huge, and
it expired in thirty six. So the Lincoln's in thirty seven,
I think are more beautiful because they have the integrated
headlamp into the fender. And it was also at sufford
to his father, Henry. He was trying to convince his father,
(10:54):
you know, Dad, I know this model t made the company,
but we got to get serious about design. This thing
going called choice bigger engines of four cylinder engines, and
cars are more than just utility. And so he was
trying to convince his father. He eventually convinced Henry Leland
to get rid of Lincoln. It was part of General Motors,
(11:15):
but for seven or eight years he didn't have any
resources to creators own Lincoln. So then this Lincoln k
the twelve cylinder Lincolns. So the first that'sl Ford Lincoln's.
They were all built as chassis. They were sent to
bodybuilders like a yacht. You would pick the body and
there are very few coops. That's why I love this car,
(11:35):
and it's great to drive. You know, it's a great
kind of technology statement as an American. I'm really proud
of that car, and that's why I bought it.
Speaker 3 (11:46):
I'm always looking at these old cars too, Jim, and
I wonder why. I guess it's just not profitable to
make something like that these days, like something with a
rumble seat or suicide doors, or like an open wheel
like the Bentley.
Speaker 2 (12:00):
Nobody makes anything like that stuff anymore for less than
you know, a million dollars.
Speaker 4 (12:04):
Because they're not safe.
Speaker 3 (12:06):
Yeah, I guess.
Speaker 4 (12:07):
You know, everyone always asked me, hey, Jim, why don't
you just make like an old sixty five Mustang? Is
such an honest design. But you know, we couldn't make
a car like that. It would never pass crash tests
and never It's a shame, but that's kind of how
it is. We kind of can't learn things like fuel
efficiency or dynamics safety, you know, how a car crashes itself,
(12:30):
an offset crash. We can't unlearn those things, so it's hard,
and people didn't know about those things back then. But
I think there are a lot you know, like humans
are humans, you know, we don't really change. So when
I get in my link in and I turn that
key and it starts in them and goes WHOA, can't
even hear it start. I think like, well, that's what
(12:50):
an electric car is. You can pooh poo it. But
the NVH. You know when we came out to LS
four hundred when I was a Lexis, you know, if
there was an EV available, yeah, we would have that
first Lexus definitely would have been heavy. It's quick, as
fast as good torque at lower pm or zero rpm,
(13:11):
and it's quiet, and that's a human condition. People wanted
that in nineteen thirty seven and they still want it.
And now you can get into twenty five or thirty
thousand dollars forward with our new affordable platform. I'm not
trying to sell Forwards. I'm just saying technology changes, but
the human the humans to want the same thing. They
(13:31):
want fun to drive, they want for me as a
personal car, I want to cause gauging. I want to
feel everything. I want the steering field to tell me
everything about what's going on. I'm interested in mastery. A
lot of people aren't interested in mastery. They just want
to get from pointy eight to point B and they
want quiet, and they want good acceleration, not because it
feels fun like me. They want to get around a
(13:53):
car really safely. So for them, I think there's not
much difference.
Speaker 3 (13:58):
Actually both or both.
Speaker 4 (14:02):
Difference between a twelve cylinder Lincoln and a modelesque plaid.
To me, there's no difference.
Speaker 1 (14:08):
That's a shocking statement, though, because it's a twelve cylinder
Lincoln that you know, I'm sure, and I know you're
getting a ton of emotional reactions when you drive that.
People get so excited because it's tangible and it's experiential.
And you're saying that's the same as a plaid, Yeah,
for sure, say more about that. I'm really curious. I mean,
(14:31):
that's a pretty strong statement.
Speaker 4 (14:33):
In nineteen thirty seven, most people were driving Model Ts.
You know, you get in that K Lincoln. It was
a spaceship. It went faster than anyone could ever imagine
going in a car. It was quiet, it was like
as quiet as this room right now, and people were
marveled at something other than the Silver Ghost. It was
(14:54):
nothing that quiet or a Packard twin six. It was
effortless performance, had all this torque. So when you pulled
away from the stop sign, the Model T you would
be making all this noise and a lot of Dramayah,
I had a lot of drama and then got pedals
and everything. It's like, yeah, I had so much torque.
You can do it in the second gear. You could
drive up to fifty miles an hour and second gear
(15:15):
and not even know you made a mistake. It was
the greatest technology of the day. My car had a
radio with an antenna hidden underneath the running boards. I
mean cars didn't even have intendants, let alone hiding them. Yeah,
it was. It was a spaceship. Just like the first
time I drove a Plaid, I was like, Holy not
(15:36):
a car for me personally, But there are a lot
of people who were marveled at the Plaid when it
came out, and thirty seven Link it was no different.
The only difference maybe is that it looks pretty cool.
Speaker 1 (15:48):
Can I ask when you're like, when you're out on
the field walking around, what are you thinking about the
status and state of the American automotive industry now? Compared
to talk about packards, we're talking about Lincoln.
Speaker 5 (16:02):
What's going on in your head when you compare the two.
Speaker 4 (16:05):
I don't really think much. Hey, what will pebble beach
be like in you know, twenty seventy five or something.
I think more about not much new has ever been invented.
It's about nineteen fifteen in our industry.
Speaker 5 (16:19):
What's old is new again?
Speaker 4 (16:21):
No, it's just everyone thinks things are new. They're actually
not new. When I look around, you know, there's just
not a lot of new thinking because people really in
the beginning of our industry, they took a lot more risk.
You know, look at the genesis of the nine to
eleven where it came from as humble beginnings until you
(16:42):
know the nine ninety three and ninety eight. You know,
it was just an incredible evolution. But it was the
same concept of a vehicle, and it was so honest
and it was so unusual. No one other than Portie
whatever think to put that car that and design it
that way.
Speaker 3 (17:01):
No one.
Speaker 4 (17:02):
And all our cars, because of arrow and safety, they
all look the same. They all are so generic, and
I think, you know, why do we have to be
stuck in this rut of sameness? Even though many people
want a car to go from point eighty point B
and they don't particularly like what it looks like. As
(17:24):
a creator of cars, our job is to actually change
their mind and to have them care about something, and
that we shouldn't feel obligated to copy our competitors. Our
designers are world class copiers. Someone writes a line on
a fast roof on the amgcls twenty five years ago,
(17:45):
and then now Hundnatus have fast roofs, you know, and
everyone just go, oh, this is a roof. Then that's
a roof. Then that's a roof. Then that's a roof,
and like, that's not that's not what I expect. I
don't like that to the cafeteria of our industry and
Picky some jello and some hot dogs and a couple
slices of pizza. Now, I think our job at Ford
(18:10):
is to think about our customers and to surprise them.
Like pro Power on board, where you can power your
house for six days. Who would have ever thought. You know,
it's an F one fifty best selling vehicle in our industry,
but it could power your house for six days. You
don't need a Honta generator, you don't need a Generac generator,
and all the ads I see on TV, but we
(18:31):
always had the chance to do that. We could have
done that with a hybrid twenty years ago, we didn't,
and that's on us. I walk around the show and
I say to myself, there are not a lot of
new ideas, So why aren't we more innovative? Why can't
we do more of the things I see here? Just
(18:51):
mix it differently, be and put more pressure on ourselves
to surprise the customer. That's what I think.
Speaker 2 (18:58):
About what we spoke with Mati Remac and he said,
in his view, Elon Musk has changed the auto industry
more than anyone alive. And I bring it up because
Tim Higgins or a story in the Wall Street Journal
about Doug Field making this new truck for you and
kind of implied that he's going to change the way
you do production. And obviously Henry Ford was the last
(19:19):
person that really changed production, right.
Speaker 3 (19:21):
Maybe until Elon.
Speaker 2 (19:23):
I don't know that much about what goes on in
the factory as much as you do. But do you
think something different could be done, not just in the
execution of the car for the consumer, but in the
way you build the car so that it can actually
be a great vehicle for thirty thousand dollars.
Speaker 4 (19:38):
Yes, No, I really believe our skunk Works team, you know,
my badge didn't work there for three years. And that
team from Formula one in Tesla, they had no prejudice,
and our industries filled with prejudice, prejudice about how something
should be done. And when you create a software defined view,
(20:00):
you know, you have freedoms that we've never had, you know,
four one hundred and twenty years. Well, let's say for
fifty years, we've been putting the computer in when it's
convenient for the final assembly, which is probably we make
a car in six hours. We make them every fifty seconds,
but it takes us six hours to make an F
(20:21):
one fifty. That computer goes in with about fifteen minutes left.
So what but think about it if you can put
that computer in after pain, after the first forty five minutes,
and it could self diagnose itself whether every one of
those connections are correct or not, because it knows how
it should be built and it can detect whether it's
(20:44):
the connections are right. You don't need any vision systems,
you don't need any training for your operators, you don't
need any of that because the line stops if the
connection is not made for anything. So we just wasted
four and a half hours of quality risk. And one
of the biggest issues you have in quality today is
connectors being seated but not fully seated. You know that
(21:08):
that is a really big innovation in our industry. Will
anyone care? The customers will care? Will the business journalists care?
They don't even know how cars are made. But if
you knew how a car was made, you would say,
my god, Like putting the computer in the first forty
five minutes is a game changer for our industry in quality.
(21:30):
Another one would be, you know the math we do
about weight. The batteries are so expensive it changes the
math in a car. You take an Ice engine engineer
and we give them an F one fifty or a
moke electric car, say go, source, go design the wiring loom.
So they go do what they've been doing for one
(21:50):
hundred and twenty years or maybe thirty years now. And
our wiring loom is one point six kilometers longer than
the Model threes, also seventy pounds heavier, and that's two
hundred dollars a battery. That's bad. Like we have a
prejudice that in ice world there's no penalty. Well, the
weight penaly math changes when you go to a battery
(22:14):
because the weight is so the battery is so expensive
that it's better to spend seventy dollars extra on wiring
harness to save seventy pounds so you save two hundred
on the battery. Well, no ice engineers think that way.
Speaker 1 (22:29):
Is that how you get to profitability on some of
these a lot cheaper.
Speaker 5 (22:33):
EV that you're talking about that you're planning.
Speaker 4 (22:35):
Yes, that's no path. When we did the Machi, there
was no one like the Apollo thirteen, there's no electrical
engineers measuring the WAT you know, WAT drainage from our
EV system. Turns out we were thirty percent. We could
have gotten thirty percent more efficient on our gearboxes and
inverters and motors than BYD and that allows our battery
(22:59):
to thirty percent smaller. And that means that even though
they may have a big advantage on you know, labor
costs in China, we can actually make it cheaper better
than bid because we can out innovate them and the
efficiency side of an EV power train. That's what I'm saying.
We have these prejudices about a wiring harness and what
should a wiring harness way and how how should it
(23:22):
be engineered that we need to get rid of. And
I agree that we're in kind of a nineteen ten
to nineteen twenties era again. But evs are only for
certain customers and duty cycles for a lot of other customers.
You know, the things that we love like manual transmissions,
(23:43):
and you know the people that want to master the
joy of controlling mechanical thing called a car. You know,
we don't want to get rid.
Speaker 1 (23:54):
Of those things.
Speaker 5 (24:00):
Does this mean we can talk about the GTD now,
for sure?
Speaker 2 (24:02):
I mean I have a million other questions about trucks.
But I love that video that Chris Harris did with
Max Happen. They started out with the RS two hundred.
You say you like race cars personally, Jim, and that
that is a race car that on the street right.
Speaker 5 (24:16):
Weekend you won your class?
Speaker 4 (24:18):
I did. Yeah, when the CEO of Ford wins a class,
though they all think I was cheating on my motor.
So it's kind of like, and I can't really cut
anyone off because I don't want to be that guy
because then they'll be talking about that.
Speaker 2 (24:31):
So racing, how much time do you get to spend
on the track practicing or in the simulator?
Speaker 3 (24:37):
Do you spend a lot of time getting ready.
Speaker 4 (24:39):
Sleeping, and racing my only two private things I do.
I don't have any other private time, so it's my
When I put that visor down, it's my only time
with myself and I can think about stuff. I do
as much as I can, ten times a year, about
as much as I can. I like racing modern cars.
At GT four, I Mustang race the lam all Whether
(25:00):
Challenge car. So you guys are there. That was fun.
I tend to be a contrarian. I feel like the
supercar market is completely overserved, that there's so many choices
that really don't matter, that no one will care that
people are just buying these cars to invest, as if
it's a stock or something. As an old school car person,
(25:22):
you know who's an enthusiast, I'm more excited about what
we're working on off road than I am on road.
And I'm really proud of the GTD because it's a Mustang.
We didn't try to turn it into something else. And
I always I always admired the GT three r Ass
and GT two r Ass, but they're almost too extreme
(25:45):
for the road. If you really wanted to use them,
you need to go to a track really, and I
thought that, wow, what if we could do a Mustang.
It was still kind of based on the thirty thousand
dollars manual Mustang that we sell to people like me
when I was a kid, and do something that, you know,
be a top ten car at the Nuremberg Ring, but
(26:07):
do it as an American company. What I mean by
that has not change the concept of Mustang. It still
is a V eight supercharged. Yes we have a transactional,
Yes we have push rod, rear suspension and all that stuff.
But it's unapologetically a Mustang. It's not trying to be
anything else. It's just trying to be the best version
(26:29):
of a Mustang. I think we're starting to get there.
We're starting to find our own voice as a brand
with our direction for Mustang.
Speaker 1 (26:39):
Can I ask about the pricing of the GTV show?
Obviously it's an expensive vehicle. Sure, are you getting pushed
back from customers who are saying this is more than
I want to spend on a Mustang? You know?
Speaker 2 (26:50):
No?
Speaker 5 (26:51):
Okay, No, I.
Speaker 4 (26:52):
Think what we think about more than even the price
is how do we make just the right level so
that if someone invests in this, they they feel like
they're you know, not to loose value. I think we've
learned enough about doing it well. So first of all,
I were to Tya. For many years, Toyota could not
sell you know, a Corolla at three hundred and forty
(27:12):
thousand dollars for it's a weird brand. Like we have
no problem selling five thousand raptor Ours at one hundred
and twenty thousand dollars. We have no problems selling our
GTD at that price. We also have no problems selling
at thirty thousand dollars affordable you know electric viea Wi. Yeah,
it's a weird brand that way. Everyone's like yeah, because
we have motorsports history that gives us permission to do
(27:34):
things that other brands don't. Don't have that commitment to
enthusiast products for fifty years, sixty years, and so to me, no,
we don't get pushed back. I think what we get
pushback is why you're only building three hundred a year
and we're building three hundred year because we want there
always to be a next one and they're not going
(27:56):
to be a next one if you build one thousand
a year because there's not big enough and we want
the people who invest and we also don't want posers,
So we have an application process. If your a person
who wants a GTE and you're going to keep it
in your car collection, we are not going to sell
you one.
Speaker 5 (28:12):
Now you've done this before, yes, and it must have
been successful.
Speaker 4 (28:16):
Yes, because we kind of Yes. We interview people and
we're like, are you going to bring into local car shows?
Speaker 2 (28:21):
Now?
Speaker 4 (28:22):
Are you going to flip it after two years? I
don't want flippers, you know, that's not I don't want
investors stock investors buying our cars, So and we limit
the number. We kind of know enough after one hundred
and twenty years. You know, let's not screw the people
that bought these expensive cars, not to make it an investment,
but just because it gives us the right to do
(28:42):
another one. If we do this one right and everyone goes,
you know what, I did lose money on that, and
I love driving the car, and you know, then maybe
I'll buy a second one and we can keep doing it,
and I think that adds value. But when I'm more interested,
there is no Porsche of off road, and I'm shocked
house people don't think about that, and I'm very interested
(29:03):
in that. The on road performance hierarchy is very simple
to see and the very top is over served in
my opinion, But no one's ever done off roads supercar.
Speaker 3 (29:16):
Different like a Mustang Raptor or a Bronco r or.
Speaker 4 (29:22):
Head for Peoplemborghini his head and let's see how long
it would last on the bout half five hundred of course,
let's see how much like a challenge within the first gurden. No,
I'm talking about like like a de car type of concept. No, no, No,
like a supercar, a thousand horsepower, partially electric, totally digitally enabled.
(29:45):
You bring your phone, you get the maxro stop in settings,
or you have everything is ajustable, suspension travel, the damping,
the right height, and it's fully capable of doing a
full on race. It's not a pickup truck. I think
that that is the right way for Ford to innovate
the supercar business. People really love the Raptor because it's
(30:08):
so compliant of the suspension, and they do like how
big it looks and it's intimidating. What they really shocked
is when they drive on a long distance travel, they
are shocked at how comfortable it is. It's like the
most comfortable Lincoln they've ever driven. Because to go fast
off road you have to have really soft suspension. A
Trophy truck is one of the most comfortable race cars
(30:29):
you'll ever be in. But no one's ever built a
supercar for gravel, high speed sand, not rock crawling. I'm
not talking about that, no, no, but some parts of
the King of the Hammers, Yes, okay, And I think
that would be a great direction for our company. We
(30:50):
can always do another fancy supercar. But I think I'm
challenging my team to think a little differently, like.
Speaker 3 (30:56):
A Group B kind of thing.
Speaker 4 (30:59):
Group B maybe for four people or two. I don't
know yet. This is my idea. I'm talking to the
team about it. Yeah, I am the CEO, and I
tend to know about the changing market. But I bet
you in total revenue for enthusiast products for outsales Porsche
right now, if you look at our Raptors and our
(31:19):
Broncos and our Tremors, I bet you our revenue is
very close and maybe our margin is too. But no
one really respected the off road and the offerred racing
world is in WRC is so narrow and so kind
of underserved. From a media standpoint, people don't really understand
the tech that goes into these vehicles, and yet everyone
wants one, and yet the Europeans have no Yeah, the
(31:42):
Porsche has a long tradition from the nine point fifty
nine on, but none of the other companies really do
in performance off road. No one's ever built a vehicle dedicated.
That's why I want to win the car.
Speaker 3 (31:56):
Would it only be for three hundred examples, Jim? Or
would you?
Speaker 2 (32:00):
Is that what you're saying, Like the next three hundred
example car that Ford bills could be an off road supercar.
Speaker 4 (32:06):
I'm thinking about it, That's all I'm saying, and I'm
thinking really deeply about it, and usually that turns into something.
That's all I could say. To be honest. A lot
of my friends are in that ecosystem of the supercars,
and I'm nauseated by the sameness of it all and
super small differentiation between this car and that car. And
(32:27):
I think it's high time that American company be a
little irreverent and do something that go left to one another,
go right, not to just go left because there's a market.
These these raptor people are telling us something. They are
not stupid, They are really smart people. They spend one
hundred and twenty thousand dollars on an eight hundred horse
(32:47):
power pickup truck, and they're saying to us, I've never
raced off road, but I love driving this vehicle and
I don't care if it's dirt or sand or tarmac.
I love it equally. You can't say that about an
on road supercar, and today I'm just saying that for me.
(33:11):
You know, GTD is fantastic because it's who we are.
And if you take that idea even further, the reason
why we race at Pike's Peak.
Speaker 3 (33:20):
Yes, love it.
Speaker 2 (33:23):
I didn't want to ask about the super van four
point two since you mentioned Pike Peak, but I'll let
it go.
Speaker 3 (33:27):
And romand Deo Moss was here.
Speaker 4 (33:29):
He's like my personal hero. And I introduced some of
my closest friend, Wayne Rainey last night and we were
talking about bikes the whole time. And yeah, I love
Pike's Peak. It's a unique American race. The Europeans have
always come here and enjoyed the race as much as Americans.
But you know, it's very important spiritually for Ford because
(33:51):
it combines our on road and off road, and we
tried to do with electric but do it our own
way with a pickup and a van, unlike Volkswagen's a
temp which was kind of a global attempt, which is
an American company. But I think there's more there. And
if there's one thing, if you ask me, Jim, you
know you're a car person running this company, what is
(34:12):
the most exciting racing that you're looking forward to? I
would say I want to win the car way more
than Formula one.
Speaker 3 (34:19):
Wow.
Speaker 4 (34:20):
Car is the most exciting thing happening. And you know,
right now Americans don't care much about it, you know,
but they should. You have no orientation.
Speaker 3 (34:31):
You have to.
Speaker 4 (34:32):
You have to. You have no idea what's over the
next dune. As a driver, you have you have to.
You have to have the skill of orienteering. You have
to know where you go. It's a two week race.
It's exhausting. If you break something, you got to fix
it yourself. It's an amazing there's no no race like it.
(34:53):
And you ask any drivers done to car and all
the great ones want to they will all say the
same thing. There's the hard thing I've ever done. And
I want Ford to win that race. And I want
not only that, I want us to build a vehicle
so that all people could experience what it's like to
have the joy of driving no matter what is in
(35:13):
front of you, and right now that's not the case.
Speaker 3 (35:16):
I love it. I love it.
Speaker 5 (35:18):
That reminds me of the glory days of peaking to Paris.
Some of these old rallied from, you know, seventy years ago.
That's the secret of adventure.
Speaker 4 (35:26):
Yes, yes, and who knows what's around the next corner
and what what? What are you going to find? Yeah?
That's that's that to me is part of being an
American company. That's why people love the Mustang because it's freedom.
It's a road trip unscheduled, it's going to meet someone
you never knew.
Speaker 1 (35:44):
You know.
Speaker 4 (35:44):
Well, that off road thing is similar, and again it's
an underserved market. No one's ever given it the respect
it deserves. I believe, just a narrow like ice racing
or WRC or Baja, but no one's really democratized it.
The performance part of it. I think that's what's exciting
to me at Ford. It brings our pro business and
(36:05):
our enthusiast brand, but we but something we haven't done.
I think that's why everyone loved the Oligue Bronco because
it was something that people didn't expect before. It a
big wing on a Bronco. Well there's a modern version
of that too, but it won't look like an Oli Bronco.
Speaker 3 (36:23):
Love it. I can't wait for the future. Thank you.
Just unbelievable passion, right, I mean.
Speaker 1 (36:31):
Just I know he is someone who you can just
really talk to. I admit sometimes I think I wish
can he just if he says something funny, I'll feel
like it's Chris Farley, because you know their cousins.
Speaker 3 (36:43):
Yes, yes, and they have the same gestures.
Speaker 5 (36:45):
They're very similar.
Speaker 1 (36:47):
So I'm sitting on the couch and of course I'd
get you excited because he's talking about off roading and
all this and going after Portia and all these great things.
And then I'm like, this is Chris Farley's cousin, which
is also fun.
Speaker 2 (37:00):
To Honestly, have loved to see them together, and I've
heard I've listened to Jim talk about his relationship with
Chris and the amount of time they spent together, and
I love to think about that because Jim is pretty serious.
Speaker 3 (37:12):
He's pretty laser.
Speaker 2 (37:13):
Focused on automotive right, and he wants to run the
business and be editive, he's very he's incredible, that's right.
Speaker 3 (37:22):
He's incredibly.
Speaker 1 (37:24):
Harryus kind of implies maybe he doesn't have a sense
of humor or he doesn't have fun. My feeling about
Jim Farley is he wants to have all the fun.
And you know what's really fun winning, Yes, that's what's
really fun, for sure.
Speaker 2 (37:38):
But I love to hear stories about him hanging out
with Chris, who must have been in a different way
also competitive, right, because he wanted to make you laugh.
That was his number one goal, right, And I love
to hear the Farley family stories. And I listened to
Jim's podcast. It's really great and it kind of opens
the door into those personal moments.
Speaker 3 (37:55):
And that's really the best part.
Speaker 2 (37:57):
About it because you want, like we're want to know
what people are like, right, So the personal things are
more interesting than just the profits and losses and you
know lap times and you know horsepower figures, so very,
very very cool.
Speaker 3 (38:11):
I'm so glad we got to spend that time with you.
Speaker 1 (38:14):
I mean, he's a real human being, which is so great.
He's not somebody who just talks from bullet points. He
hasn't been overly media trained, you know, you get the
sense when you talk with him, he is a present
individual who was having a conversation with you, and that
is a nice thing.
Speaker 3 (38:29):
All right, Well, listen. I hope you guys have a
fantastic drive back.
Speaker 1 (38:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (38:34):
Thanks, No tickets, no ticket.
Speaker 1 (38:36):
I'm very happy to report I stopped counting at fifteen
police cars on the way from Los Angeles to Carmel, California,
which is a four hour drive. I stopped counting at fifteen.
No tickets. Knock on wood. I think we're going to
drive back tomorrow. But I do want to say, for
everybody who came up and said something about listening to
(38:56):
us on the podcast, thank you so much for listening.
Really means a lot to hear from you guys, and
just thanks for saying hi. And it's really nice to
talk to some of you, all twelve of our listeners.
Speaker 3 (39:09):
The dozen dozens of you listening.
Speaker 1 (39:11):
I'm Matt Miller and I'm Hannah Elliott, and this is
Bloomberg
Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio News. I'm Matt Miller and
I'm Hannah Elliott and this is Hot Pursuit.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
And this is a very special edition of the podcast
because Hannah, you're at I mean you were last week
also at Monterey Car Week, but you're still there and
you just got to sit down in a room with
Fords CEO Jim Farley, who I guess has just finished
judging the concour This.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
Is actually kind of the like climax of the whole week.
We are in Casa Palmerow at the Pebble Beach Golf Links,
and it's basically the end of the day. Jim and
I both got up for dawn patrol, which is a
five forty five am commitment to watch the cars roll
onto the lawn. And then Jim of course has a
car that's entered into the Concora Lincoln, but also he's
(00:53):
the judge, so he just finished judging and came in
here to talk to us, which was a really great thing.
And of course we love to talk to him because
he's so fascinating to talk to and so passionate.
Speaker 3 (01:07):
Yes, yes, bleeds oil. Like it's unbelievable how much this
guy loves cars.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
It's so inspiring. And I don't want to gush because
everybody's different, but I will say not every automaker truly
loves and believes in the cars the way that Jim does.
It's on another level, you know. And it is really
fun to be around because he believed. He is a
true believer, for sure. It's fun.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
Let's get straight into the interview now, and I'll meet
you back here in thirty minutes.
Speaker 4 (01:42):
I was here at four because I was showing my
old Lincoln, so I got up at I was here
at four trying to get the car ready. We had
a fire during the tour or so, but we had
to repair the car this morning. And I'm also eleven
or twelve year into judging here. I'm a technical judge
of judge for Packards, so lat and I really loved
(02:04):
the early American cars, so I couldn't do both. My
son drove the car on the lawn. I couldn't do
dog control this year, and then I had to make
it to the judges boring breakfast.
Speaker 3 (02:16):
Wait, I want to hear about both of those cars. First.
Speaker 2 (02:19):
I've heard the Packard twelve cylinder motor was a model
that Enzo Ferrari loved.
Speaker 3 (02:25):
Is that true? What's the story with Packards?
Speaker 4 (02:29):
You know, if you ask Phil Hill or anyone who
knows about cars, they would tell you that Packard in
the twenties and thirties, you know, had even before that,
but really became you know, the Rolls Roycee in the
United States. It wasn't the fanciest car. You could buy
a Pierce or a Locomobile or others that were fancier,
but for the high end, mainstream you know, Dual cow
(02:51):
Phaeton Packard twelve cylinder of twin six is about it's
nice of a car, and they're completely silent. I mean
you turn on, they're even quieter than my K Lincoln.
They were very tasteful cars. They were understated. Their advertising
slogan was slightly out of touch today, but asked the
man who owns one kind of set it all, and
(03:14):
they were really the gold standard in our country. The
Packer plant in downtown Detroit was, you know, the place
to work if you were a factory work collect My
grandfather he worked at four but he would love to
get backer. It's no surprise because Packer took so much
pride in their twelve cylinder engine. They had no need
(03:35):
to come out with the sixteen like Cadillac. They thought
that was too heavy. And it's no surprise that they
became the license se for the Merlin engine in Worldworth
two and made all the engines for the P fifty ones.
Because they were so good at manufacturing and quality. It
was a great company. They you know, they didn't survive
(03:58):
much after that, but when they were on their game,
they were the best in the world.
Speaker 5 (04:03):
And you said, you're a technical judge, yes, what does
that entail? What are you looking for?
Speaker 4 (04:08):
It's a good question. We have basically a small point
range for elegance, and that's with a lot of negotiation
that goes into that because everyone's definition is different. But
you know, the most important thing is we're not going
to give you points off or let's say, you know,
you have a great piece of pain here or there.
It's not what people think. It's like that host clamp
(04:28):
is wrong. That's that sticker is actually not put on
the right way. We're not looking to get people, you know,
points off. We're looking at is that executed, that car
executed in the intent of the manufacturer's intention, especially the
engineering stuff like does stuff work as is spoil to work,
the vacuum, you know, wipers, they can work really well,
(04:52):
they don't work really well sometimes and a lot of
the owners don't really care as long as they work.
But for judges, we're looking for the manufacturer's intent when
they made the vehicle. But a lot of people get
it wrong. And there's a lot of people who spend
a lot of money on these fancy restorations, they actually
don't know about the cars. They don't know what it
should do and not do. And Packard had a lot
(05:14):
of good reasons to do what they did when they
braided a fuel line or when they when they didn't
you know, they had good engineering reasons for it. So
we're looking for technical compliance and the manufacturer's intent not
to ding people for like a sticker being there or not,
but you know, is it there to warn the customer
(05:35):
do not touch this. And we're looking for especially the
custom body vehicles. Are they elegant or are they cumbersome?
Could be a really expensive car that actually isn't very elegant.
There are a lot of those, so we look for
both elegance. The genesis of this was, of course the
Pebble Beach races and then not so modern idea, the
(05:57):
women would pick the most elegant car on Sunday, so
the guys would race. Really wealthy people would race on Saturday.
And eventually they moved out to Lundeseca because it was
so dangerous to race in the forest and this concourse
was an elegance. Yes, and you picked the most elegant car.
Speaker 1 (06:15):
You know, that's actually a great history that has never
been strung together. To me, that was the genesis.
Speaker 4 (06:20):
Of whole week. Ye it was always a week.
Speaker 5 (06:23):
Three years ago and Phil.
Speaker 4 (06:25):
Hill was the first person to win the road race,
and then he happened to win in his aunt car
one he restored it, won the concourse the same weekend,
same next day, and he wound up being the first
American world champion. So, yeah, this weekend is great. I
worked in a car restoration shop in fact Hills Hill
(06:48):
and Vaughn Phil's place. I put myself to graduate school.
I'm an interior guy, so I sew frogs, buffalo hide,
all sorts of crazy stuff that put myself to graduate school.
And I was a mechanic and I came up here
after we'd work on the cars for three or four
years we weren't allowed in the show. You'd have enough
(07:08):
money to be in the show. But we would drive
the cars on the lawn, you know, before there was
dawn patrol and all the mechanics are working on the cars.
We would look at each other's work and we'd said, hey,
you did a great job with that delage. What is that?
You know? And I got my PhD in the car
business as a mechanic here. Wow, and my wife what
(07:28):
was that?
Speaker 5 (07:28):
How many years?
Speaker 4 (07:29):
I was nineteen eighty.
Speaker 5 (07:31):
Five, So you've been coming for a lot.
Speaker 4 (07:33):
Yes, and for more than twenty years I camped at
the Monory.
Speaker 5 (07:36):
Camp gram or my wife that is so that's very authentic.
Speaker 4 (07:41):
I'm a complete dirt bag.
Speaker 5 (07:42):
Yeah, but I forward too.
Speaker 4 (07:46):
That's like my other part of my life. But the
real Jim Farley is an interior guy who frog yeah,
frog Yeah. It takes a lot of frogs to do it.
Speaker 3 (07:55):
It's a lot of hides. Wow, Jim, tell us about
your Lincoln.
Speaker 4 (08:02):
I was just going to say that, you know, I
always wanted to. I'm a kN of reverse commuter. You know,
I loved Cobras and I loved Porsches, and you know,
My first car I restored was that when my own
money was a three point fifty six Porsche in the
in the late seventies.
Speaker 5 (08:17):
And I was a little known fact.
Speaker 4 (08:19):
Yeah. I rebuilt the car in my apartment in Manhattan Beach,
and I did an outlaw car before there was such
a thing. It was all aluminum deck lid. And you know,
I did a lot to the car myself. And then
I moved up to Cobras and GT forties. I really
only liked race cars or cars that on the street
(08:39):
were intended to be race cars, so to speak. And
then maybe twenty years ago, I started to get more
intrigued by older cars, first their pre nineteen hundred cars,
steam and electric. And you know, in nineteen ten the
industry was a third a third to third, a third steam,
a third electric, and a third combustion.
Speaker 5 (08:58):
And is it true that the electrics marketed toward women.
Speaker 1 (09:01):
Oh?
Speaker 5 (09:01):
Yes, because they were clean, quiet, easier to offer.
Speaker 4 (09:04):
To operate, It didn't have to do any starting. It
was much and actually was better technology all around. Just
the batteries weren't advanced. I began to look at race
cars from pre war. I bought a four and a
half Leter Bentley. It was just normally aspirated Bentley. But
I really loved those cars. They won them all for
(09:25):
four years, and you know they were incredible cars, and
we won them all four times at four to two,
and you know, they made their brand and kind of GT.
Forty made our brand in a way. And so I
was looking for an early car. But I'm very I'm
a stickler. I like original cars, so like my Bronco,
(09:48):
my seventy two Bronco I bought off a Montana farmer
and I looked for twenty years to get a car,
and I've been looking at I've been after this car
for way before I came to Ford. It's a twelve
cylinder le baron vinyl topped Coop, which is very unusual
for these big cars to be a small coup and
I love Coop design. I have a LOTSI Eurelia that
(10:10):
I want bless the class here, best class here, and
I like Coop design. I don't like open cars other
than Bentley, because I think it's more of a beautiful
design and that designer is intent. So I was looking
for this car for a long time. It took me
more than twenty years to Finally there's only five that
wherever built. And it's the first year that Pierce had
(10:32):
the copyright for the integrating their headlamp into the fender.
This was at the time, Yes, it was huge, and
it expired in thirty six. So the Lincoln's in thirty seven,
I think are more beautiful because they have the integrated
headlamp into the fender. And it was also at sufford
to his father, Henry. He was trying to convince his father,
(10:54):
you know, Dad, I know this model t made the company,
but we got to get serious about design. This thing
going called choice bigger engines of four cylinder engines, and
cars are more than just utility. And so he was
trying to convince his father. He eventually convinced Henry Leland
to get rid of Lincoln. It was part of General Motors,
(11:15):
but for seven or eight years he didn't have any
resources to creators own Lincoln. So then this Lincoln k
the twelve cylinder Lincolns. So the first that'sl Ford Lincoln's.
They were all built as chassis. They were sent to
bodybuilders like a yacht. You would pick the body and
there are very few coops. That's why I love this car,
(11:35):
and it's great to drive. You know, it's a great
kind of technology statement as an American. I'm really proud
of that car, and that's why I bought it.
Speaker 3 (11:46):
I'm always looking at these old cars too, Jim, and
I wonder why. I guess it's just not profitable to
make something like that these days, like something with a
rumble seat or suicide doors, or like an open wheel
like the Bentley.
Speaker 2 (12:00):
Nobody makes anything like that stuff anymore for less than
you know, a million dollars.
Speaker 4 (12:04):
Because they're not safe.
Speaker 3 (12:06):
Yeah, I guess.
Speaker 4 (12:07):
You know, everyone always asked me, hey, Jim, why don't
you just make like an old sixty five Mustang? Is
such an honest design. But you know, we couldn't make
a car like that. It would never pass crash tests
and never It's a shame, but that's kind of how
it is. We kind of can't learn things like fuel
efficiency or dynamics safety, you know, how a car crashes itself,
(12:30):
an offset crash. We can't unlearn those things, so it's hard,
and people didn't know about those things back then. But
I think there are a lot you know, like humans
are humans, you know, we don't really change. So when
I get in my link in and I turn that
key and it starts in them and goes WHOA, can't
even hear it start. I think like, well, that's what
(12:50):
an electric car is. You can pooh poo it. But
the NVH. You know when we came out to LS
four hundred when I was a Lexis, you know, if
there was an EV available, yeah, we would have that
first Lexus definitely would have been heavy. It's quick, as
fast as good torque at lower pm or zero rpm,
(13:11):
and it's quiet, and that's a human condition. People wanted
that in nineteen thirty seven and they still want it.
And now you can get into twenty five or thirty
thousand dollars forward with our new affordable platform. I'm not
trying to sell Forwards. I'm just saying technology changes, but
the human the humans to want the same thing. They
(13:31):
want fun to drive, they want for me as a
personal car, I want to cause gauging. I want to
feel everything. I want the steering field to tell me
everything about what's going on. I'm interested in mastery. A
lot of people aren't interested in mastery. They just want
to get from pointy eight to point B and they
want quiet, and they want good acceleration, not because it
feels fun like me. They want to get around a
(13:53):
car really safely. So for them, I think there's not
much difference.
Speaker 3 (13:58):
Actually both or both.
Speaker 4 (14:02):
Difference between a twelve cylinder Lincoln and a modelesque plaid.
To me, there's no difference.
Speaker 1 (14:08):
That's a shocking statement, though, because it's a twelve cylinder
Lincoln that you know, I'm sure, and I know you're
getting a ton of emotional reactions when you drive that.
People get so excited because it's tangible and it's experiential.
And you're saying that's the same as a plaid, Yeah,
for sure, say more about that. I'm really curious. I mean,
(14:31):
that's a pretty strong statement.
Speaker 4 (14:33):
In nineteen thirty seven, most people were driving Model Ts.
You know, you get in that K Lincoln. It was
a spaceship. It went faster than anyone could ever imagine
going in a car. It was quiet, it was like
as quiet as this room right now, and people were
marveled at something other than the Silver Ghost. It was
(14:54):
nothing that quiet or a Packard twin six. It was
effortless performance, had all this torque. So when you pulled
away from the stop sign, the Model T you would
be making all this noise and a lot of Dramayah,
I had a lot of drama and then got pedals
and everything. It's like, yeah, I had so much torque.
You can do it in the second gear. You could
drive up to fifty miles an hour and second gear
(15:15):
and not even know you made a mistake. It was
the greatest technology of the day. My car had a
radio with an antenna hidden underneath the running boards. I
mean cars didn't even have intendants, let alone hiding them. Yeah,
it was. It was a spaceship. Just like the first
time I drove a Plaid, I was like, Holy not
(15:36):
a car for me personally, But there are a lot
of people who were marveled at the Plaid when it
came out, and thirty seven Link it was no different.
The only difference maybe is that it looks pretty cool.
Speaker 1 (15:48):
Can I ask when you're like, when you're out on
the field walking around, what are you thinking about the
status and state of the American automotive industry now? Compared
to talk about packards, we're talking about Lincoln.
Speaker 5 (16:02):
What's going on in your head when you compare the two.
Speaker 4 (16:05):
I don't really think much. Hey, what will pebble beach
be like in you know, twenty seventy five or something.
I think more about not much new has ever been invented.
It's about nineteen fifteen in our industry.
Speaker 5 (16:19):
What's old is new again?
Speaker 4 (16:21):
No, it's just everyone thinks things are new. They're actually
not new. When I look around, you know, there's just
not a lot of new thinking because people really in
the beginning of our industry, they took a lot more risk.
You know, look at the genesis of the nine to
eleven where it came from as humble beginnings until you
(16:42):
know the nine ninety three and ninety eight. You know,
it was just an incredible evolution. But it was the
same concept of a vehicle, and it was so honest
and it was so unusual. No one other than Portie
whatever think to put that car that and design it
that way.
Speaker 3 (17:01):
No one.
Speaker 4 (17:02):
And all our cars, because of arrow and safety, they
all look the same. They all are so generic, and
I think, you know, why do we have to be
stuck in this rut of sameness? Even though many people
want a car to go from point eighty point B
and they don't particularly like what it looks like. As
(17:24):
a creator of cars, our job is to actually change
their mind and to have them care about something, and
that we shouldn't feel obligated to copy our competitors. Our
designers are world class copiers. Someone writes a line on
a fast roof on the amgcls twenty five years ago,
(17:45):
and then now Hundnatus have fast roofs, you know, and
everyone just go, oh, this is a roof. Then that's
a roof. Then that's a roof. Then that's a roof,
and like, that's not that's not what I expect. I
don't like that to the cafeteria of our industry and
Picky some jello and some hot dogs and a couple
slices of pizza. Now, I think our job at Ford
(18:10):
is to think about our customers and to surprise them.
Like pro Power on board, where you can power your
house for six days. Who would have ever thought. You know,
it's an F one fifty best selling vehicle in our industry,
but it could power your house for six days. You
don't need a Honta generator, you don't need a Generac generator,
and all the ads I see on TV, but we
(18:31):
always had the chance to do that. We could have
done that with a hybrid twenty years ago, we didn't,
and that's on us. I walk around the show and
I say to myself, there are not a lot of
new ideas, So why aren't we more innovative? Why can't
we do more of the things I see here? Just
(18:51):
mix it differently, be and put more pressure on ourselves
to surprise the customer. That's what I think.
Speaker 2 (18:58):
About what we spoke with Mati Remac and he said,
in his view, Elon Musk has changed the auto industry
more than anyone alive. And I bring it up because
Tim Higgins or a story in the Wall Street Journal
about Doug Field making this new truck for you and
kind of implied that he's going to change the way
you do production. And obviously Henry Ford was the last
(19:19):
person that really changed production, right.
Speaker 3 (19:21):
Maybe until Elon.
Speaker 2 (19:23):
I don't know that much about what goes on in
the factory as much as you do. But do you
think something different could be done, not just in the
execution of the car for the consumer, but in the
way you build the car so that it can actually
be a great vehicle for thirty thousand dollars.
Speaker 4 (19:38):
Yes, No, I really believe our skunk Works team, you know,
my badge didn't work there for three years. And that
team from Formula one in Tesla, they had no prejudice,
and our industries filled with prejudice, prejudice about how something
should be done. And when you create a software defined view,
(20:00):
you know, you have freedoms that we've never had, you know,
four one hundred and twenty years. Well, let's say for
fifty years, we've been putting the computer in when it's
convenient for the final assembly, which is probably we make
a car in six hours. We make them every fifty seconds,
but it takes us six hours to make an F
(20:21):
one fifty. That computer goes in with about fifteen minutes left.
So what but think about it if you can put
that computer in after pain, after the first forty five minutes,
and it could self diagnose itself whether every one of
those connections are correct or not, because it knows how
it should be built and it can detect whether it's
(20:44):
the connections are right. You don't need any vision systems,
you don't need any training for your operators, you don't
need any of that because the line stops if the
connection is not made for anything. So we just wasted
four and a half hours of quality risk. And one
of the biggest issues you have in quality today is
connectors being seated but not fully seated. You know that
(21:08):
that is a really big innovation in our industry. Will
anyone care? The customers will care? Will the business journalists care?
They don't even know how cars are made. But if
you knew how a car was made, you would say,
my god, Like putting the computer in the first forty
five minutes is a game changer for our industry in quality.
(21:30):
Another one would be, you know the math we do
about weight. The batteries are so expensive it changes the
math in a car. You take an Ice engine engineer
and we give them an F one fifty or a
moke electric car, say go, source, go design the wiring loom.
So they go do what they've been doing for one
(21:50):
hundred and twenty years or maybe thirty years now. And
our wiring loom is one point six kilometers longer than
the Model threes, also seventy pounds heavier, and that's two
hundred dollars a battery. That's bad. Like we have a
prejudice that in ice world there's no penalty. Well, the
weight penaly math changes when you go to a battery
(22:14):
because the weight is so the battery is so expensive
that it's better to spend seventy dollars extra on wiring
harness to save seventy pounds so you save two hundred
on the battery. Well, no ice engineers think that way.
Speaker 1 (22:29):
Is that how you get to profitability on some of
these a lot cheaper.
Speaker 5 (22:33):
EV that you're talking about that you're planning.
Speaker 4 (22:35):
Yes, that's no path. When we did the Machi, there
was no one like the Apollo thirteen, there's no electrical
engineers measuring the WAT you know, WAT drainage from our
EV system. Turns out we were thirty percent. We could
have gotten thirty percent more efficient on our gearboxes and
inverters and motors than BYD and that allows our battery
(22:59):
to thirty percent smaller. And that means that even though
they may have a big advantage on you know, labor
costs in China, we can actually make it cheaper better
than bid because we can out innovate them and the
efficiency side of an EV power train. That's what I'm saying.
We have these prejudices about a wiring harness and what
should a wiring harness way and how how should it
(23:22):
be engineered that we need to get rid of. And
I agree that we're in kind of a nineteen ten
to nineteen twenties era again. But evs are only for
certain customers and duty cycles for a lot of other customers.
You know, the things that we love like manual transmissions,
(23:43):
and you know the people that want to master the
joy of controlling mechanical thing called a car. You know,
we don't want to get rid.
Speaker 1 (23:54):
Of those things.
Speaker 5 (24:00):
Does this mean we can talk about the GTD now,
for sure?
Speaker 2 (24:02):
I mean I have a million other questions about trucks.
But I love that video that Chris Harris did with
Max Happen. They started out with the RS two hundred.
You say you like race cars personally, Jim, and that
that is a race car that on the street right.
Speaker 5 (24:16):
Weekend you won your class?
Speaker 4 (24:18):
I did. Yeah, when the CEO of Ford wins a class,
though they all think I was cheating on my motor.
So it's kind of like, and I can't really cut
anyone off because I don't want to be that guy
because then they'll be talking about that.
Speaker 2 (24:31):
So racing, how much time do you get to spend
on the track practicing or in the simulator?
Speaker 3 (24:37):
Do you spend a lot of time getting ready.
Speaker 4 (24:39):
Sleeping, and racing my only two private things I do.
I don't have any other private time, so it's my
When I put that visor down, it's my only time
with myself and I can think about stuff. I do
as much as I can, ten times a year, about
as much as I can. I like racing modern cars.
At GT four, I Mustang race the lam all Whether
(25:00):
Challenge car. So you guys are there. That was fun.
I tend to be a contrarian. I feel like the
supercar market is completely overserved, that there's so many choices
that really don't matter, that no one will care that
people are just buying these cars to invest, as if
it's a stock or something. As an old school car person,
(25:22):
you know who's an enthusiast, I'm more excited about what
we're working on off road than I am on road.
And I'm really proud of the GTD because it's a Mustang.
We didn't try to turn it into something else. And
I always I always admired the GT three r Ass
and GT two r Ass, but they're almost too extreme
(25:45):
for the road. If you really wanted to use them,
you need to go to a track really, and I
thought that, wow, what if we could do a Mustang.
It was still kind of based on the thirty thousand
dollars manual Mustang that we sell to people like me
when I was a kid, and do something that, you know,
be a top ten car at the Nuremberg Ring, but
(26:07):
do it as an American company. What I mean by
that has not change the concept of Mustang. It still
is a V eight supercharged. Yes we have a transactional,
Yes we have push rod, rear suspension and all that stuff.
But it's unapologetically a Mustang. It's not trying to be
anything else. It's just trying to be the best version
(26:29):
of a Mustang. I think we're starting to get there.
We're starting to find our own voice as a brand
with our direction for Mustang.
Speaker 1 (26:39):
Can I ask about the pricing of the GTV show?
Obviously it's an expensive vehicle. Sure, are you getting pushed
back from customers who are saying this is more than
I want to spend on a Mustang? You know?
Speaker 2 (26:50):
No?
Speaker 5 (26:51):
Okay, No, I.
Speaker 4 (26:52):
Think what we think about more than even the price
is how do we make just the right level so
that if someone invests in this, they they feel like
they're you know, not to loose value. I think we've
learned enough about doing it well. So first of all,
I were to Tya. For many years, Toyota could not
sell you know, a Corolla at three hundred and forty
(27:12):
thousand dollars for it's a weird brand. Like we have
no problem selling five thousand raptor Ours at one hundred
and twenty thousand dollars. We have no problems selling our
GTD at that price. We also have no problems selling
at thirty thousand dollars affordable you know electric viea Wi. Yeah,
it's a weird brand that way. Everyone's like yeah, because
we have motorsports history that gives us permission to do
(27:34):
things that other brands don't. Don't have that commitment to
enthusiast products for fifty years, sixty years, and so to me, no,
we don't get pushed back. I think what we get
pushback is why you're only building three hundred a year
and we're building three hundred year because we want there
always to be a next one and they're not going
(27:56):
to be a next one if you build one thousand
a year because there's not big enough and we want
the people who invest and we also don't want posers,
So we have an application process. If your a person
who wants a GTE and you're going to keep it
in your car collection, we are not going to sell
you one.
Speaker 5 (28:12):
Now you've done this before, yes, and it must have
been successful.
Speaker 4 (28:16):
Yes, because we kind of Yes. We interview people and
we're like, are you going to bring into local car shows?
Speaker 2 (28:21):
Now?
Speaker 4 (28:22):
Are you going to flip it after two years? I
don't want flippers, you know, that's not I don't want
investors stock investors buying our cars, So and we limit
the number. We kind of know enough after one hundred
and twenty years. You know, let's not screw the people
that bought these expensive cars, not to make it an investment,
but just because it gives us the right to do
(28:42):
another one. If we do this one right and everyone goes,
you know what, I did lose money on that, and
I love driving the car, and you know, then maybe
I'll buy a second one and we can keep doing it,
and I think that adds value. But when I'm more interested,
there is no Porsche of off road, and I'm shocked
house people don't think about that, and I'm very interested
(29:03):
in that. The on road performance hierarchy is very simple
to see and the very top is over served in
my opinion, But no one's ever done off roads supercar.
Speaker 3 (29:16):
Different like a Mustang Raptor or a Bronco r or.
Speaker 4 (29:22):
Head for Peoplemborghini his head and let's see how long
it would last on the bout half five hundred of course,
let's see how much like a challenge within the first gurden. No,
I'm talking about like like a de car type of concept. No, no, No,
like a supercar, a thousand horsepower, partially electric, totally digitally enabled.
(29:45):
You bring your phone, you get the maxro stop in settings,
or you have everything is ajustable, suspension travel, the damping,
the right height, and it's fully capable of doing a
full on race. It's not a pickup truck. I think
that that is the right way for Ford to innovate
the supercar business. People really love the Raptor because it's
(30:08):
so compliant of the suspension, and they do like how
big it looks and it's intimidating. What they really shocked
is when they drive on a long distance travel, they
are shocked at how comfortable it is. It's like the
most comfortable Lincoln they've ever driven. Because to go fast
off road you have to have really soft suspension. A
Trophy truck is one of the most comfortable race cars
(30:29):
you'll ever be in. But no one's ever built a
supercar for gravel, high speed sand, not rock crawling. I'm
not talking about that, no, no, but some parts of
the King of the Hammers, Yes, okay, And I think
that would be a great direction for our company. We
(30:50):
can always do another fancy supercar. But I think I'm
challenging my team to think a little differently, like.
Speaker 3 (30:56):
A Group B kind of thing.
Speaker 4 (30:59):
Group B maybe for four people or two. I don't
know yet. This is my idea. I'm talking to the
team about it. Yeah, I am the CEO, and I
tend to know about the changing market. But I bet
you in total revenue for enthusiast products for outsales Porsche
right now, if you look at our Raptors and our
(31:19):
Broncos and our Tremors, I bet you our revenue is
very close and maybe our margin is too. But no
one really respected the off road and the offerred racing
world is in WRC is so narrow and so kind
of underserved. From a media standpoint, people don't really understand
the tech that goes into these vehicles, and yet everyone
wants one, and yet the Europeans have no Yeah, the
(31:42):
Porsche has a long tradition from the nine point fifty
nine on, but none of the other companies really do
in performance off road. No one's ever built a vehicle dedicated.
That's why I want to win the car.
Speaker 3 (31:56):
Would it only be for three hundred examples, Jim? Or
would you?
Speaker 2 (32:00):
Is that what you're saying, Like the next three hundred
example car that Ford bills could be an off road supercar.
Speaker 4 (32:06):
I'm thinking about it, That's all I'm saying, and I'm
thinking really deeply about it, and usually that turns into something.
That's all I could say. To be honest. A lot
of my friends are in that ecosystem of the supercars,
and I'm nauseated by the sameness of it all and
super small differentiation between this car and that car. And
(32:27):
I think it's high time that American company be a
little irreverent and do something that go left to one another,
go right, not to just go left because there's a market.
These these raptor people are telling us something. They are
not stupid, They are really smart people. They spend one
hundred and twenty thousand dollars on an eight hundred horse
(32:47):
power pickup truck, and they're saying to us, I've never
raced off road, but I love driving this vehicle and
I don't care if it's dirt or sand or tarmac.
I love it equally. You can't say that about an
on road supercar, and today I'm just saying that for me.
(33:11):
You know, GTD is fantastic because it's who we are.
And if you take that idea even further, the reason
why we race at Pike's Peak.
Speaker 3 (33:20):
Yes, love it.
Speaker 2 (33:23):
I didn't want to ask about the super van four
point two since you mentioned Pike Peak, but I'll let
it go.
Speaker 3 (33:27):
And romand Deo Moss was here.
Speaker 4 (33:29):
He's like my personal hero. And I introduced some of
my closest friend, Wayne Rainey last night and we were
talking about bikes the whole time. And yeah, I love
Pike's Peak. It's a unique American race. The Europeans have
always come here and enjoyed the race as much as Americans.
But you know, it's very important spiritually for Ford because
(33:51):
it combines our on road and off road, and we
tried to do with electric but do it our own
way with a pickup and a van, unlike Volkswagen's a
temp which was kind of a global attempt, which is
an American company. But I think there's more there. And
if there's one thing, if you ask me, Jim, you
know you're a car person running this company, what is
(34:12):
the most exciting racing that you're looking forward to? I
would say I want to win the car way more
than Formula one.
Speaker 3 (34:19):
Wow.
Speaker 4 (34:20):
Car is the most exciting thing happening. And you know,
right now Americans don't care much about it, you know,
but they should. You have no orientation.
Speaker 3 (34:31):
You have to.
Speaker 4 (34:32):
You have to. You have no idea what's over the
next dune. As a driver, you have you have to.
You have to have the skill of orienteering. You have
to know where you go. It's a two week race.
It's exhausting. If you break something, you got to fix
it yourself. It's an amazing there's no no race like it.
(34:53):
And you ask any drivers done to car and all
the great ones want to they will all say the
same thing. There's the hard thing I've ever done. And
I want Ford to win that race. And I want
not only that, I want us to build a vehicle
so that all people could experience what it's like to
have the joy of driving no matter what is in
(35:13):
front of you, and right now that's not the case.
Speaker 3 (35:16):
I love it. I love it.
Speaker 5 (35:18):
That reminds me of the glory days of peaking to Paris.
Some of these old rallied from, you know, seventy years ago.
That's the secret of adventure.
Speaker 4 (35:26):
Yes, yes, and who knows what's around the next corner
and what what? What are you going to find? Yeah?
That's that's that to me is part of being an
American company. That's why people love the Mustang because it's freedom.
It's a road trip unscheduled, it's going to meet someone
you never knew.
Speaker 1 (35:44):
You know.
Speaker 4 (35:44):
Well, that off road thing is similar, and again it's
an underserved market. No one's ever given it the respect
it deserves. I believe, just a narrow like ice racing
or WRC or Baja, but no one's really democratized it.
The performance part of it. I think that's what's exciting
to me at Ford. It brings our pro business and
(36:05):
our enthusiast brand, but we but something we haven't done.
I think that's why everyone loved the Oligue Bronco because
it was something that people didn't expect before. It a
big wing on a Bronco. Well there's a modern version
of that too, but it won't look like an Oli Bronco.
Speaker 3 (36:23):
Love it. I can't wait for the future. Thank you.
Just unbelievable passion, right, I mean.
Speaker 1 (36:31):
Just I know he is someone who you can just
really talk to. I admit sometimes I think I wish
can he just if he says something funny, I'll feel
like it's Chris Farley, because you know their cousins.
Speaker 3 (36:43):
Yes, yes, and they have the same gestures.
Speaker 5 (36:45):
They're very similar.
Speaker 1 (36:47):
So I'm sitting on the couch and of course I'd
get you excited because he's talking about off roading and
all this and going after Portia and all these great things.
And then I'm like, this is Chris Farley's cousin, which
is also fun.
Speaker 2 (37:00):
To Honestly, have loved to see them together, and I've
heard I've listened to Jim talk about his relationship with
Chris and the amount of time they spent together, and
I love to think about that because Jim is pretty serious.
Speaker 3 (37:12):
He's pretty laser.
Speaker 2 (37:13):
Focused on automotive right, and he wants to run the
business and be editive, he's very he's incredible, that's right.
Speaker 3 (37:22):
He's incredibly.
Speaker 1 (37:24):
Harryus kind of implies maybe he doesn't have a sense
of humor or he doesn't have fun. My feeling about
Jim Farley is he wants to have all the fun.
And you know what's really fun winning, Yes, that's what's
really fun, for sure.
Speaker 2 (37:38):
But I love to hear stories about him hanging out
with Chris, who must have been in a different way
also competitive, right, because he wanted to make you laugh.
That was his number one goal, right, And I love
to hear the Farley family stories. And I listened to
Jim's podcast. It's really great and it kind of opens
the door into those personal moments.
Speaker 3 (37:55):
And that's really the best part.
Speaker 2 (37:57):
About it because you want, like we're want to know
what people are like, right, So the personal things are
more interesting than just the profits and losses and you
know lap times and you know horsepower figures, so very,
very very cool.
Speaker 3 (38:11):
I'm so glad we got to spend that time with you.
Speaker 1 (38:14):
I mean, he's a real human being, which is so great.
He's not somebody who just talks from bullet points. He
hasn't been overly media trained, you know, you get the
sense when you talk with him, he is a present
individual who was having a conversation with you, and that
is a nice thing.
Speaker 3 (38:29):
All right, Well, listen. I hope you guys have a
fantastic drive back.
Speaker 1 (38:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (38:34):
Thanks, No tickets, no ticket.
Speaker 1 (38:36):
I'm very happy to report I stopped counting at fifteen
police cars on the way from Los Angeles to Carmel, California,
which is a four hour drive. I stopped counting at fifteen.
No tickets. Knock on wood. I think we're going to
drive back tomorrow. But I do want to say, for
everybody who came up and said something about listening to
(38:56):
us on the podcast, thank you so much for listening.
Really means a lot to hear from you guys, and
just thanks for saying hi. And it's really nice to
talk to some of you, all twelve of our listeners.
Speaker 3 (39:09):
The dozen dozens of you listening.
Speaker 1 (39:11):
I'm Matt Miller and I'm Hannah Elliott, and this is
Bloomberg
Hosts And Creators
Hannah Elliott
Matt Miller
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