July 4, 2025 • 46 mins
David Gooding, president and founder of Gooding & Company, joins the show to talk tariffs, shed light on the recent acquisition by Christie's, and advise what to watch for during Monterey Car Week. Plus, he reveals when is the right time to sell a car at "no reserve."
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
I'm Matt Miller and I'm Hannah Elliott, and this is
Hot Pursuit. So we have David Gooding with us today.
He is the president and founder of Gooding and Co.
Which he started with his wife Don in two thousand
(00:29):
and three. But actually Gooding and Co. Is now Gooding Christie's,
which is really exciting because they're just Christie's was in
the car business and then they got out and now
they're back in and they're sort of bigger and better
than ever. And you know, I will say we've definitely
chronicled the competition among the auction houses and it is
(00:50):
a real it's real thing. But I have to say universally,
whenever I ask any of the other auction house people,
they say very nice things about David It he is
really universally liked and universally called a nice, decent guy.
So that's that's really a tribute. And he's he's gonna
be great to have on the show.
Speaker 3 (01:10):
And has, as as we've learned, a very strong exclusive
relationship really with Pebble Beach. So it's a nice preview
for the trip that you and I are going to
take there in August. Let's get straight to it. Well,
welcome to Bloomberg, David. Great having you with us. You know,
Hannah's told me so many great things about you and
your business, and so I'm really looking forward to basically
(01:32):
hearing you guys chat because she is the journalist responsible
for covering the auctions and classic cars and collectors and stuff,
and I'm usually interested in like trucks and and muscle cars.
So I'm gonna let her kind of hog the ball here.
So Hannah, why don't you take it away?
Speaker 1 (01:54):
I call me Hannah the Hog.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
I love it, and I will say I feel like
truck's dude dovetail with collecting definitely. Yeah, David, thank you
so much for joining us. It's really great to have you. Obviously,
you know we've worked together for years. You've been in
the industry forever. I think, did you start Gooding and Co.
(02:17):
In two thousand and three?
Speaker 4 (02:19):
Correct? Yeah, we started. Our first auction was two thousand
and four.
Speaker 1 (02:23):
Wow, And but forever, well, it was just two thousand
and three.
Speaker 2 (02:29):
You had been at you'd been every you'd worked for
everyone else. I think you got all the best practices
and then started your own company. You were actually at
Christie's in the nineties. Give us like a give that
a run through, because even I don't know, okay, back.
Speaker 4 (02:45):
Farther, Okay. So in January of nineteen ninety, right as
the car market was shifting, none of us had realized it,
I joined Christie's and I was at Christie's for eleven
years and really learned the trade, and Christie's instilled in
me and all of us that ethics were and you know,
(03:09):
the certain way of doing business is the most important thing.
That that's all that you've got really above and everything out,
above everything else. So I was there for eleven years.
Then I worked at RM for three and a half years,
and after that we started Gooding Company in two thousand
and three. So it's been it's been a long and
(03:31):
interesting ride, and we've watched the market change develop I've
seen you know, markets go up and down and watch
it all happen, and it's been interesting to be to
be there throughout it all.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
David, I want to get to market talk, but just
to like put a pin in the arc of your career.
The most recent news of the course is that now
Gooding and Chrissy's are back together. Which must be so
surreal for you having been there before. Can you just
tell us how did that come about and what does
(04:09):
that mean for you in your I don't think you
really have a new role. You're kind of doing the
same that you always did.
Speaker 4 (04:16):
Yeah, I know the role. The role doesn't feel really
any different, so you know, to sort of go back
as as I think I alluded to, I mean I
always felt very near and dear to Christie's. It was
it was, you know, the soft spot in my heart.
(04:37):
So even when we were competing against each other in
the in the early two thousands, uh, there was a
friendly rivalry. And then Christie's for a while got out
of the car car business, but we were We worked
very well together. They would refer business to us, we
would refer business to them. And then then a little
(04:59):
over a year and a half ago, uh, the chairman
of Christie's pulled me in and said, we really, we
really need to change this. We want to we wanna
we want to acquire your company. And so it was
not something that we were really My wife and I
were not really looking to do that, but it made
(05:21):
a lot of sense. They're the each company has the
same ethos there they were. It's really a perfect marriage.
So yeah, we're we're now working together and uh and
uh or technically I'm working for them and uh uh
we are busy expanding the business. I mean we're going
(05:44):
into Europe. Uh, We're we're looking at expanding our sales,
we're adding staff. So it's it's great. I mean, we're
we we have the financial wherewithal behind us now that
we can really compete on every level. So we're it's
super exciting for us.
Speaker 3 (06:00):
Can I just jump in and ask about your wife,
because I don't want to seem too cliche, but I've
always in my career hooked up with really smart women,
and uh, I think that's been one of my advantages
in life. Right my wife, Hannah Carol mass or you
you talk about your wife, I guess your your partners
(06:22):
in the business or what is that?
Speaker 4 (06:24):
Yes, one hundred percent partners. Now, I'm I'm in charge
of sales and and and uh a lot of the business.
But she she does all of our marketing and branding,
and she's involved in finance and operations. So we we
compliment each other very very well. And uh it's been
(06:47):
great for us because because the sales end of the
business requires so much travel and she doesn't have to
travel as much, and so, you know, we we just
it's been very good that, you know, while I'm out
on the road getting getting cars for these various auctions,
she's here holding down the fort. And you know, she
(07:12):
she is brilliant in terms of marketing. She has a
background in motion picture marketing. And her vision for our
brand and our look and our feel that that's all
her and we became very well known for that, and
so I just you know, it's a great, great partnership
(07:38):
and marriage.
Speaker 2 (07:39):
David, I guess I've never asked you this, but it
strikes me that you are sort of the face of
the company. I'm curious if did you and don ever
have a conversation that she actually doesn't want to have
to do the heavy lifting of like talking to people
like Matt and and she's very happy to let you
do that.
Speaker 3 (07:57):
Wait, this is heavy lifting for you.
Speaker 4 (08:01):
Well, this isn't heavylifting, but sometimes it's heavy lifting. Yeah,
I mean, we we I don't know if we actually
sat down and had that conversation or it just sort
of developed, but it's we agree. I mean, there's certainly,
there's so many things that she does that she does
so much better than I do that, so we just
we just stick in our certain lanes, you know, And
(08:23):
and it's kind of implicit. I think it's it's pretty
obvious there's a lot of things that I'm not very
good at that she handles, and so it's, uh, it
didn't need to be a conversation.
Speaker 1 (08:36):
That's great.
Speaker 4 (08:37):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:39):
So I'm okay.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
So back to what I really wanted to ask you too.
After the Christie's news, you know, did Christie's come to
you because they realized we need to get back into cars?
I mean, are they what are they seeing in the
market that made them think we need to get in
on this again.
Speaker 4 (09:00):
Yeah, well, I think they definitely saw that and realized it.
I mean, the car market has exploded over the last
few years, and they certainly were aware that so many
of their clients that collect in other categories also collecting cars,
and their competitors have car you know, vibrant car departments,
(09:28):
and so they just they knew that it was an
important aspect and it's quite you know, in the luxury
category and in everything that Christie's does, they are really
at the top of their field, and there was this
big vacuum where they just weren't in the car business,
and so that, you know, I think it became pretty
(09:51):
obvious that they needed to be So it worked out
really well. We were excited to join together.
Speaker 3 (09:58):
What is the unique selling point of Gooding. I mean,
you've even I know you've sold some really exclusive cars
the Yellowbird, uh dusenberg S, SJ and and some others
that I've read about. And you're very closely connected to
(10:19):
Pebble Beach where Hannah and I for the first time,
Hannah's been there a million times, will go in August.
Speaker 4 (10:27):
Great, I'm glad you're coming out. So yeah, I mean
we are. We've always been very involved at Pebble Beach.
We've been the auction house there. Well, Christie's was an
auction house there and then Gooding took over the spot.
So now it's it's great that it's good in Christie's again,
(10:47):
you know, I guess are we pride ourselves on not
doing the most sales, but really focusing on quality and
transparency and integrity, and and I think we're we're well,
I know, we're quite passionate about the objects we really enjoy.
(11:09):
We're very enthusiastic about the cars. Not to say that
others are not, but but we get we get really
focused on bringing out the best of every car that
we can that we consign, and we search search the world.
I just got back from from the UK too to
get a big car that we'll be announcing soon. So
(11:34):
we're constantly searching the world for the you know, the
best kind of cars that we can find that are
that are different, that we think will risk the market
will respond to really, well, what are you.
Speaker 2 (11:48):
Seeing like when you like when you just travel and
you're looking at cars, like, what has the market produced
this summer?
Speaker 4 (11:56):
So you know it's there there. We're offered a lot
and we turn away a lot. So the market, there
are a lot of things that people put towards us
that we say, you know, and they may be great cars,
but they may be priced too high or we feel
that there have been too many similar cars like that
(12:18):
offered on the market. We feel like, you know, we
want to we try to build a sale that is
interesting and has a lot to offer, and we also
are trying very hard to be conscious of what else
is coming on the market, and that's hard because obviously
our competitors don't you know, we don't know what they have,
(12:39):
and they don't know what we have. So we try
to balance things out and offer something that will be
that that will respond our clients will respond well.
Speaker 1 (12:49):
To what are people trying to.
Speaker 4 (12:55):
Some you know, here's the thing. I mean, sometimes it's
not what you know. We can we can hear, you know,
clients will say, oh, I want to you know, you know,
I want a really special roof, or I want you know,
I want this kind of Ferrari or or this kind
of Dusenberg. But but we actually always also try to
(13:17):
think what can we they don't necessarily Sometimes we can
try to anticipate what they want without them even knowing.
So that sounds a little.
Speaker 3 (13:29):
You know, we presumptuous.
Speaker 4 (13:31):
Yeah, presumptuous. I don't Yeah, yeah, I don't mean it
to be, but I.
Speaker 1 (13:34):
But I think that you're forecasting.
Speaker 4 (13:37):
Yeah, we can we can just see that, oh, this
is something really special. We know that their tastes are
like this, and therefore they would like that, and and
we try to match that. And it's exciting and you know,
it's really exciting when when it works. Sometimes it doesn't work,
but that's part of the fun of that's part of
(13:59):
the fun of the auction businesses. It is a real test.
I mean, you kind of you put yourself out there,
you put these cars out there, you're you know, and
the market speaks, and sometimes it applauds really loudly, and
sometimes it doesn't, and that's okay. You know, we all
learn from it. I like the I like the real feedback.
(14:20):
It's a real test. It's not some you know, kind
of manufactured thing that sometimes ourselves very well and sometimes
they don't. And that is the market speaking.
Speaker 2 (14:32):
It does seem like, you know, if the money is
in the room, the money is in the room, and
if it's not, yeah, figuratively speaking obviously, yeah.
Speaker 4 (14:40):
And you know, and sometimes we we have cars that
we're super excited about that we think we'll do exceptionally
well and they can do just okay, or you know,
other times they really surprise you. So it's you don't know,
you know, And that's when you think you know, then
then you're that dangerous. You can have an idea and
(15:02):
you you know, but you don't know for sure.
Speaker 2 (15:06):
What is the conversation that you're having with people selling things,
consigning things, and also those looking for things in terms
of are they talking about tariffs? Are they talking about
you know, economic and political factors.
Speaker 4 (15:25):
What's the chatter, well, the the the tariff, the introduction
of tariffs in April. We basically should have taken the
month off of April. We should we should we should
have all gone on vacation then, because it just stopped
all conversations. We were in discussion with a lot of
(15:45):
clients from from England and Europe who were talking about
giving bringing cars over to Pebble Beach, and it just
shut everything down. And uh, but not only that, even
our US clients were distracted by it. They obviously were
focusing on their investments, the stock market, you know, all
(16:09):
kinds of things, all of the news, and so that
certainly had an effect this year. So what that did
is it really compressed our time. I mean usually April
May June is a real busy time for us in
business gathering, in getting the consignments. What it did this
(16:29):
year is it compressed it all into June and now
we're just getting the last few cars in for Pebble
Beach in July. It's really tight. But yeah, so that's
that's what it's done. It's really just our windows. So
the I think all the noise, and I would call
it all the distraction of that has has calmed down
(16:55):
a little bit and people are ready to move on
and kind of you know, make decisions anyway and commitments anyway.
Speaker 2 (17:02):
So some of the concern sorry, Matt, I'll just I'll
let you I'll let you ask a question just to
follow up. Some of the concerns specifically was even if
you even if vintage cars were exempt from you know,
these very high tariffs, parts would still be taxed. Yeah,
And it was unclear if a car was had for
(17:25):
like you know, certain alloy or steel components, whether it
be taxed partially based on that percentage of the car.
Speaker 4 (17:31):
Right. It was just very it was very unclear, and
the messaging was unclear. So it was you know, people
saying it was chaos. Yeah, so, uh, you know, nobody
really knew and people didn't want to make big decisions,
which which I understand. But I think now it has
calmed down a little bit, and certainly for pre two
(17:55):
thousand cars, which is a lot of what we sell,
it's it's calmed down. And again I think a lot
of it was just people not wanting to focus on
their car side of their life and really focus more
on everything else that they were dealing with. I mean
a lot of these a lot of our clients are
(18:16):
very active in business, and so they were, you know,
there was they were dealing with more urgent issues first,
and then they kind of came out of the came
out of the cloud and could talk about their summer plans.
Speaker 3 (18:30):
You mentioned the pre two thousand cars, and I'm looking
at a list of it. Maybe you know, an Ai hallucination,
but a list of the most famous cars you've sold,
and almost all of them look like pre nineteen sixty.
You've got the Dusenberg, the afore mentioned Dusenberg nineteen thirty five,
Talbot Alago nineteen thirty seven, nineteen oh three, Mercedes Simplex.
(18:54):
But then you get a bunch of fifties ferraris right,
the requisite Bugatti Type fifty nine at Alfa Romeo eight
c also in nineteen thirties cars, and the only thing
modern I see is the Yellowbird nineteen eighty nine off
CTR yellow Bird and the nineteen ninety five McLaren F one.
(19:15):
Is that starting to change, a little?
Speaker 4 (19:17):
David? Are you?
Speaker 3 (19:18):
Are you selling newer cars or are people you know,
are the high highest networth individuals still focused on the
classic sort of pre war American cars and the fifties.
Speaker 4 (19:28):
Ferraris, Oh, we're definitely selling a lot more contemporary newer
cars than we ever did before. Definitely trending that way.
I mean in the what you're seeing in the you know,
north of ten million dollar range, they tend to be
more classic are cars, not as much that you know,
(19:50):
Porsches and things like that. But we have sold we
still hold a record for the Porsche mark with a
nine to seventeen that we sold. That's obviously a sixty Porsche,
but we sold the car we sold lamal winning Porsche
nine five six from the eighties. So there are much
(20:11):
more contemporary cars. A lot of our bread and butter
cars are are you know, nine ninety three Porsches and
more contemporary cars like that. Lots of more contemporary Ferraris Mercedes.
So yeah, we're seeing that, you know, we are. We've
(20:34):
sold McLaren f ones, will continue to sell McLaren f ones,
but to get to get north of fifteen million dollars,
it tends to be a classic era car and you know.
Speaker 3 (20:46):
But I see this nineteen ninety five. McLaren f one
sold a Pebble Beach in twenty seventeen for fifteen point
six two million dollars.
Speaker 4 (20:56):
That was we sold. No, we sold on McLaren f
one for more money than fifty team it brought brought
twenty Wow.
Speaker 3 (21:05):
Yeah, that is a stunning.
Speaker 4 (21:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:09):
Are the people who buy something like that? Is that
someone who's buying like bitcoin and lives in Dubai?
Speaker 1 (21:21):
Like what type of buyer is that?
Speaker 4 (21:24):
So that was names but you can't Yeah, yeah, I
can give you sort of a profile that that was
a an American collector who we've known for a long time.
And I was a bit surprised that he that he
bought that car that was newer territory for him. But yeah, no,
(21:50):
I mean he's a he's a he is a you know,
follows the typical profile of our of our clientele.
Speaker 3 (21:59):
Are these guys all anonymous or do you have buyers
who are pretty open about what they're doing?
Speaker 4 (22:04):
Both?
Speaker 3 (22:05):
Are?
Speaker 4 (22:05):
There are some that are very open and a lot
tend to be more anonymous, But yeah, they're they're very open.
Some are extremely private about it. But yeah, I would say,
you know it tends to be about seventy percent are
pretty anonymous about it. But then of course when they
take these cars to a classic car show or to
(22:26):
a concord, you know, it all gets revealed.
Speaker 2 (22:36):
Can I ask you about the conversation that you have
with sellers about reserve prizes? And this is something Met
and I have discussed and debated before about the merits
of having a reserve. Yeah, what do you counsel people?
And maybe it depends on the car and you can
talk to us about the nuances, but what are the
(22:58):
benefits of setting a reserve or not? Because I think
you know, if you don't have a reserve, the market
truly speaks for itself.
Speaker 4 (23:06):
It does, you know. We well, we have we have
these sales estate sales oftentimes where everything is no reserve.
And you know, the cars that we have at any
of our auctions, anything two hundred and fifty thousand dollars
or below is without reserve. Oftentimes we have cars that
(23:30):
are north of that value that are without reserve. You know,
I think particularly on high production, easy to value cars,
I think of like a three hundred sl is going
or a roadster that is a perfect car, that is
(23:50):
a perfect valuable car. You know, they tend to be.
They're worth over a million dollars. That is a perfectly safe,
valuable car to it in at no reserve. Now that's
easy for me to say, it's not it's not you know,
it's not my it's not my neck on the line there.
Speaker 1 (24:09):
But it's it's kind of a known thing.
Speaker 4 (24:12):
It's in this day and age, especially at an auction
like Pebble Beach, it's the world stage. It's it's where
the many world records are set. Year after year after year,
everyone will be there. A three hundred sl is going
to sell for a market price, whatever the market. If
you're if you're accepting I'm going to sell the car
this year, I'm going to sell it for a market price.
(24:33):
I would I think it's better to put it in
no reserve if you if you're comfortable with that, because
actually what that does is it focuses all of the
potential buyers. They think, oh, you know, I'm kind of
casually looking at that car, but I'm not sure if
it's really gonna if it's priced writer or you know,
maybe it will sell, maybe it won't sell. When you
(24:54):
say it's no reserve, it is going to sell. It's
going to walk on stage. It's selling no matter what.
So so you or get you know, you better really
focused because if you want to you know, if you think, oh,
I'll pay one point two for that car all day long,
well you better look at it. You better do your
research because it could sell for it could sell for
one point one, it could sell for one point three.
But you you know, get get get in the get
(25:16):
in the fight. And uh so, definitely no reserve can
be great. Uh it of course can be can be risky,
but I think I think it's very good again, especially
on cars that are like that or or cars that
are you know, so fresh to the market. And and
(25:40):
you know, if you have if you have a low
cost basis and you really just want to you're going
to sell the car anyway, it's better to just put it,
put it at no reserve.
Speaker 2 (25:49):
And as a spectator, it's exciting. I mean I love
going to auctions just to watch. I think they're so fun.
People should do it.
Speaker 1 (25:57):
It's yeah.
Speaker 4 (25:57):
I I I often encourage people come watch, even if
you're not you're not into cars, it's just an interesting
dynamic to see it. So I'm excited Matt that you're
going to be uh.
Speaker 3 (26:09):
Oh, I can't wait. By the way, did you were
you in the car or is this uh?
Speaker 4 (26:16):
Is it is?
Speaker 3 (26:17):
Did you get into cars because the auction business or
have you always been kind of a gearhead?
Speaker 4 (26:21):
I my dad was an automotive museum curator, so I
grew up in an automotive museum. So yeah, I he
told me, don't ever get in the car business. You
you love cars, you want to collect them. You'll never
make money in the in the car business. You should
be a dentist. I'm glad I didn't follow his advice.
He gave me a lot of other great advice, though,
(26:42):
but he was he was as a museum curator. Really
never was able to collect the cars that he was
passionate about. But what it did, was it it? You know,
it gave me a great education. After school. Every day
I would go to these automotive museums and study the
cars and study the hang out in the libraries and
(27:03):
read the books. And you know, I had no, no,
no plans to go into this business. But I needed
a job out of college.
Speaker 3 (27:12):
And so what's your thing? I mean, like, I guess
since your dad is a museum curator, you probably already
had very sort of Hoteku tour taste. I never heard
of a Talbot logo, for example.
Speaker 4 (27:28):
Yeah and yeah, yeah, you know. So my thing I
really love, really I love performance cars from any era.
So what a lot of people don't realize is the
very old cars, you know, pre World War One cars
can be very exciting and fun to drive and very fast,
(27:49):
and so I really like that era car. I like
cars from the thirties. I love cars from the thirties,
but anything that is really performance oriented, the fifties and sixties.
They're just different eras that are magical and exciting, and
so I grew up around all of those and I
have a natural love for those. But I've come to
(28:14):
love more contemporary cars as well. So I like it all,
but I think my natural I would say, my natural
soft spot is pre seventy four and earlier, So anything
from We've sold eighteen ninety six steam car, sorry, eighteen
eighty six steam car, which was a race car from
(28:37):
eighteen eighty six, which is kind of crazy.
Speaker 1 (28:40):
That's not the one you had at Retromobile.
Speaker 4 (28:43):
That was the three Mercedes.
Speaker 1 (28:46):
Okay, okay, okay, fantastic another.
Speaker 2 (28:48):
I will always obviously sort of remember that car.
Speaker 4 (28:51):
That was incredible car, absolutely incredible car. That was the
McLaren F one of nineteen three and unbelievable car, maybe
the most important car we ever sold.
Speaker 2 (29:01):
So and I asked about the restoration of those cars.
Do you guys do in house restoration and how go?
And like, okay, so, how does that work? If someone
has something that you know is really significant but it
needs a little bit of love.
Speaker 4 (29:18):
So I mean, we will do very light work to
bring a car back to life if we have a
if we have a barn discovery, uh, and we think
it can be brought you know, it could be running
with just a very little effort of you know, changing
the oil and fluids and fuel and whatnot. We'll do that.
(29:40):
But we tend not to to do restoration work. We're
not we're not a restoration business. We don't we actually
have that's a whole complicated specialty that that we have
tremendous respect for and we're we're we're friends and we
love to collaborate with a lot of these restoration shops
(30:00):
and you know they do they do what they do
very very well, and we don't. We don't want to
compete with them, and so we'll we'll send work their
way and they'll they'll often refer cars to us. But
that's a you know, restoration is I have tremendous respect
for for for those specialists and experts, so we tend
(30:24):
you know. The other thing is I mean from a
from a market point of view. Also layered on top
of what I just said, was that you'd never quite
know what the next client is going to want to
do with the car. They may want to not touch
it at all. You know, we had a we had
an alloy alloy body two seventy five Ferrari that was
(30:44):
covered in dust and and and we pulled it out
of this uh barn and the fellow the bought it
just got a running but he didn't touch it. It's
still dirty, it looks it needs a car wash, but
he just drives it around like that. He uses it
and drives it like that. So you never you don't
want to make an assumption of what a client will
want to do with the car. And you know, sometimes
(31:08):
clients will want to restore them. Sometimes I want to
leave them exactly as they are. Sometimes they'll do something in.
Speaker 2 (31:14):
The middle that's actually really cool. I mean it's a
way to get your Ferrari to stand out.
Speaker 4 (31:20):
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I was a little surprised.
I mean, I actually I thought in this he's an
incredible client and friend. But I if I were initially,
I would have washed the car, you know, And now
that I now, it's been about ten years and I
think it looks really cool, and I'm I applaud them.
I'm like, God, I'm glad. I'm glad that wasn't me.
(31:41):
I would have cleaned it and it would have looked
like so many other two seven fives, and now it
stands out and looks different. He cleaned the windows so
he could see out of it. But that's it.
Speaker 3 (31:50):
By the way, David, you obviously develop relationships with I'm
sure the sellers and the buyers here. And so if
I look at a list of the cars you sell,
most of them are at Pebble Beach or at Amelia Island.
And but I wonder if someone would come to you
and say, listen, I want to sell this, you know, Bugatti,
(32:12):
but I don't want to do it at an auction.
Do you know anybody who wants to buy it? Do
you do like more a substantial amount of private sales
like that.
Speaker 4 (32:20):
Yes we do. We've we did many private sales. We actually, well,
Bugatti is a great example. We sold a Bugatti years
ago for a family they had, the Williamson family. They
had one of the best Bugatti collections ever assembled, and
we sold ten of the cars to and all of
the money went for charity at auction. But then the
(32:43):
Bugatti Atlantique, which was there, it's one of the greatest
Bugattis there is, they wanted that sold privately, so we
we did a private sale of that. So yes, we
do private sales. We've we've sold we have the highest
price world record for were a Ferrari, which we sold privately.
Actually we've sold many Ferraris, but two fifty gto. We've
(33:08):
sold a couple of two fifty gto Ferraris privately. So yes,
we'll do private sales. We you know, I mean more
of our sales are at auction, but definitely we do
private sales. And it really depends on the car, the timing,
the needs of the seller that we really give advice
and oftentimes people will say I want to sell something privately,
(33:30):
but then we'll counsel them and say, well, you know,
I mean, if where do we think something will sell best?
Speaker 3 (33:40):
So it really depends, by the way, do you ever
talk to when I think about Bugatties, I think about
the classics initially only, but then I think about they
still make cars that are really cool and they I
was lucky enough to go to Mulesheim and see you know,
you know, the mansion and the factory, and it was
(34:02):
such a cool thing.
Speaker 4 (34:03):
Do you ever talk to like.
Speaker 3 (34:06):
The people who are building these new cars and they say, hey, David,
what should we do about these tail lights don't work right?
Or you know, you know, like give anybody advice because
you not just an auctioneer. Obviously your father was a
museum curator, so you're someone with vast knowledge of the
histories of these marks.
Speaker 4 (34:25):
Yeah. Well, I've been to many of the factories. I
have not been to the Bugatti factory, and I would
love to go. It's it's on my list of things
to do. But I have been to many of the factories,
and we've been involved in launches of new cars. It's
throughout the years and everything. They've never no one's ever
(34:47):
consulted us on on on designing, so I don't know.
I h that's us, yes, exactly, that's that's maybe a goal. Yeah.
When I was a kid, I wanted to be a
our designer. But you know, now it's so uh, committee
driven and everything. I don't know, I think it might
be kind of frustrating to you know. They used to
(35:12):
be you know, it used to be the vision of
one person that could really make their design scene. But
now it's uh, now it's very corporate and everything. So no,
I haven't been involved in design but yet, but yeah,
I would love to.
Speaker 3 (35:29):
I wasn't thinking about Folkswagen. I was thinking about like
Horatio Pagani.
Speaker 5 (35:34):
Or yeah you know or you knoweah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
yeah I should see, yeah, something something else to do.
Speaker 2 (35:44):
So right, David, what's your advice for Matt or anyone
or me going to the Pebble Beach Monterey Car Week,
especially from you guys at the auction. But what should
we be watching for? What do you want to uh,
what do you want to highlight?
Speaker 4 (36:01):
Well, you know, going to I mean, you know, Matt,
if it's your first time, just sit in the audience
and watch it all unfold. As I say, it's it's
exciting to see there will be some things that perform
(36:22):
very very well. Uh and kind of just watch it,
you know, see see if you can pick out why
they why they perform well, if you can, if you
can walk around during the viewing, look at the cars
ahead of time. You know, when we you see the cars,
we photograph them beautifully. They they're there. It's but when
(36:43):
you see them in person, they really come. I mean,
there's just like I mean, you know, it's amazing.
Speaker 3 (36:51):
And they will brag and say, I've been invited to
ride in a Dusenberg in the dawn patrol. I don't
know what that is.
Speaker 1 (36:58):
Patrol, Matt, you have to do that.
Speaker 4 (37:00):
You're going to do that, Yeah for sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
Oh that's super exciting.
Speaker 3 (37:03):
Oh yeah, someone who works for Mikheil Haggerty invited me
to ride in his So that's great.
Speaker 4 (37:14):
Yeah, oh you definitely definitely, you'll you'll enjoy that. That
is a that's a very special thing to experience, rolling
on the on the lawn in the car like that.
Speaker 3 (37:23):
I don't think I've ever ridden in pre war car
at all, in any pre war car, so yeah, it'll
be new for me.
Speaker 4 (37:30):
Oh that'll be that'll be fun. You'll enjoy that. My
favorite event of the week is the Thursday the tour
because you see all the cars that are going to
be on the loan on Sunday, but they're out there
for the first time. Oftentimes the owners are seeing them
after extensive restorations for the first time, and the cars
(37:52):
fire up and they take off, and to see the
cars in motion, you know, at fairly good speed as
opposed to you know, driving driving over a ramp, which
is one thing, which is great, but to see them
like take off and fire up, it's it's really that's special.
So definitely soak in the Thursday the Thursday thing, and
(38:14):
the great thing is you can you can watch all
that unfold and then just walk right into our tent
and look at the viewing and then kind of study
the cars and then you'll see them sell on Friday
and Saturday night.
Speaker 1 (38:26):
Soak it all up. Yeah, that is a really cool
thing about Pebble Beach.
Speaker 2 (38:30):
It's like each one of those cars that you see
on the lawn actually runs, and that's part of what
they're evaluated on these art you know.
Speaker 1 (38:39):
Yes, yes, trailer queens, yeah.
Speaker 4 (38:42):
Yeah, yeah, And hearing them and seeing them in motion
and seeing them with against you know, seeing cars in context.
I mean that's the you know, when you when you
see them with other cars of the era or you know,
you really begin to appreciate how incredible they were for
their time or still are, and that's really that's really exciting,
(39:07):
so that you know, I love I love the tour
for that reason. And the other nice thing about the
tour is that the cars are mixed up. They're not
by class. It's fun to see them in class on
the lawn on Sunday, but to see them there, you know,
you'll see you'll see a tiny little Alfa Romeo next
to a giant Dusenberger Mercedes or you know, in different eras,
(39:29):
and all are fantastic. So it's really fun.
Speaker 2 (39:33):
David, I know we're coming to the end of our time,
but I also want to ask about Retromobile.
Speaker 1 (39:37):
Yes, next year, this is you know.
Speaker 2 (39:40):
This really fabulous car show that's been in Paris for
many years, but it's coming to the States, and I
know you guys are a big part of that. Can
you kind of give us a preview of what to expect?
Speaker 4 (39:51):
Sure, so Retromobile, you've been to Retromobile, I don't know
Matt if you've been, but if not, that's another thing
you've got to do, so I love to. Yeah, okay, Well,
so Retromobile in Paris it's the it's the biggest car
event in Europe. It happens the end of January and February.
We're doing an auction there where the selected auction house
(40:13):
to hold an auction there, so we're super excited about that.
It will be our first auction in France. And then
Retromobile for the first time is moving that magical, fantastic,
unique event to bring it to bring it to the
United States. It'll be in New York at the Javit
(40:33):
Center in November and we're going to do an auction
there and Retromobile for people that are not familiar with it,
it is like the the best automobile trade show there is.
I mean, there are the world's top dealers bring they
build these fantastic stands and shows and show their top
(40:56):
cars that they have for sale. There are manufacturers that
bring out their latest cars as well as their heritage cars,
private collectors clubs. It's it's really wonderful. And then then
there are little sections where where you can buy vintage
car parts or or fashion. You know, if you if
you want to buy helmets or goggles and you know,
(41:19):
driving shoes things like that. There's all kinds of things.
If you're looking for that carburetor that you haven't found
for for you know, years and years, you might find
it there. It's it's just a great event like nothing else.
Speaker 2 (41:32):
It is really cool and I really hope, I mean,
it's so charming in Paris because it's Paris. Yes, I
really hope New York can kind of develop its own
spin on it, you know, and really it'll take hold.
Speaker 4 (41:47):
Yeah, I'm confident that that that that it will. I mean,
the organizers are very excited about they're extremely creative, and
they want to bring the French flair but keep keep
it American, but but bring the whole ethos of Retromobile
Paris to New York. And you know, they were they
were debating different cities, and we had discussed it a
(42:09):
little bit, and I said, come on, there's there's like
the the obvious city is New York. I mean you know, yeah, exactly.
And you know, the fun thing, the great fun thing
about that event, unlike some other car events where you're
kind of just locked into just being at the car event.
The great thing about Retrobile is you come and go.
(42:29):
It happens over a few days. So you know, in
Paris you go in and then you go have a
fantastic meal or something outside and come back, you know
later in the day or the next day. Same kind
of thing will happen in New York. People will will
come and go and enjoy the city around it and
just have have the magic of the venue the city
(42:51):
all around you.
Speaker 3 (42:52):
By the way, one one more question. I know we're
running up against the clock here, but for people who
can't spend a lot of time going to Retromobile, going
to Pebble Beach, what are some good resources to be
introduced to this world, because you know, there's not some
(43:12):
very popular pre war car forum, but I know there's
some books.
Speaker 4 (43:18):
I'm also there are there's there's a there, there are
some but they're not perhaps known as well.
Speaker 3 (43:23):
There's like pre work card that is accessible right right, right,
So do I go to the REVS Institute.
Speaker 4 (43:32):
Or yes, yes, yes, rev. REVS is fantastic, I'm very
involved there, incredible resource. REVS is wonderful, Peterson is wonderful. Uh.
There there are the Peterson Siams fantastic. There are many resources.
There are also clubs that are that that do great.
(43:54):
They have great resources as well. So it really depends
on the type of car that you're you know.
Speaker 3 (44:00):
I'm just worrying about the pre war stuff, you know,
because I'd love to get into like a flathead V
eight and I don't know nineteen thirties Ford, but I
don't know, like there's no hot rod clubs around me
that I know about, and I don't have access to
Miles Collier on the regular basis, So like, who who
are the people who know this stuff? What books?
Speaker 4 (44:20):
Can you read it? You can? Yeah, I mean the
start off by going to you know, go on the
REVS website. That's a that's a great source. You live
in New York, right, yep, Okay, let's see in the
New York area, I mean there are there are cars
and coffee events. I can definitely you know, I'd be
(44:43):
happy to connect you with some VA four guys that
they're great. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean I've got
a lot of friends up in Vermont area that are
into VA Fords and stuff, so I could connect you there. Yeah.
It's a it's a great world. And those cars are fun, beautiful,
(45:05):
very affordable. I think a tremendous value. So yeah, I'm
I'm excited for you. I think that's a that's a
that's a great event. So things like you know, if
not too far from New York, but in no sorry,
October is the Hershey Classic Car Swap Meet. You will
(45:27):
see tons of tons of cars there. There's thousands of
cars and many many, many V eight Fords and things
like that, and people that are crazy about them. So yeah,
we can we can connect you with all kinds of people.
Speaker 3 (45:41):
Very cool, a new mission. Yeah, David, it's been fantastic
talking to you. Thank you so much for joining us.
Our thanks to David Gooding, president and founder of Gooding
and Company, for joining us. And that does it for
this edition of Hot Pursuit. For Hanna Elliott, I'm Matt Miller,
and this is Bloomberg
Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
I'm Matt Miller and I'm Hannah Elliott, and this is
Hot Pursuit. So we have David Gooding with us today.
He is the president and founder of Gooding and Co.
Which he started with his wife Don in two thousand
(00:29):
and three. But actually Gooding and Co. Is now Gooding Christie's,
which is really exciting because they're just Christie's was in
the car business and then they got out and now
they're back in and they're sort of bigger and better
than ever. And you know, I will say we've definitely
chronicled the competition among the auction houses and it is
(00:50):
a real it's real thing. But I have to say universally,
whenever I ask any of the other auction house people,
they say very nice things about David It he is
really universally liked and universally called a nice, decent guy.
So that's that's really a tribute. And he's he's gonna
be great to have on the show.
Speaker 3 (01:10):
And has, as as we've learned, a very strong exclusive
relationship really with Pebble Beach. So it's a nice preview
for the trip that you and I are going to
take there in August. Let's get straight to it. Well,
welcome to Bloomberg, David. Great having you with us. You know,
Hannah's told me so many great things about you and
your business, and so I'm really looking forward to basically
(01:32):
hearing you guys chat because she is the journalist responsible
for covering the auctions and classic cars and collectors and stuff,
and I'm usually interested in like trucks and and muscle cars.
So I'm gonna let her kind of hog the ball here.
So Hannah, why don't you take it away?
Speaker 1 (01:54):
I call me Hannah the Hog.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
I love it, and I will say I feel like
truck's dude dovetail with collecting definitely. Yeah, David, thank you
so much for joining us. It's really great to have you. Obviously,
you know we've worked together for years. You've been in
the industry forever. I think, did you start Gooding and Co.
(02:17):
In two thousand and three?
Speaker 4 (02:19):
Correct? Yeah, we started. Our first auction was two thousand
and four.
Speaker 1 (02:23):
Wow, And but forever, well, it was just two thousand
and three.
Speaker 2 (02:29):
You had been at you'd been every you'd worked for
everyone else. I think you got all the best practices
and then started your own company. You were actually at
Christie's in the nineties. Give us like a give that
a run through, because even I don't know, okay, back.
Speaker 4 (02:45):
Farther, Okay. So in January of nineteen ninety, right as
the car market was shifting, none of us had realized it,
I joined Christie's and I was at Christie's for eleven
years and really learned the trade, and Christie's instilled in
me and all of us that ethics were and you know,
(03:09):
the certain way of doing business is the most important thing.
That that's all that you've got really above and everything out,
above everything else. So I was there for eleven years.
Then I worked at RM for three and a half years,
and after that we started Gooding Company in two thousand
and three. So it's been it's been a long and
(03:31):
interesting ride, and we've watched the market change develop I've
seen you know, markets go up and down and watch
it all happen, and it's been interesting to be to
be there throughout it all.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
David, I want to get to market talk, but just
to like put a pin in the arc of your career.
The most recent news of the course is that now
Gooding and Chrissy's are back together. Which must be so
surreal for you having been there before. Can you just
tell us how did that come about and what does
(04:09):
that mean for you in your I don't think you
really have a new role. You're kind of doing the
same that you always did.
Speaker 4 (04:16):
Yeah, I know the role. The role doesn't feel really
any different, so you know, to sort of go back
as as I think I alluded to, I mean I
always felt very near and dear to Christie's. It was
it was, you know, the soft spot in my heart.
(04:37):
So even when we were competing against each other in
the in the early two thousands, uh, there was a
friendly rivalry. And then Christie's for a while got out
of the car car business, but we were We worked
very well together. They would refer business to us, we
would refer business to them. And then then a little
(04:59):
over a year and a half ago, uh, the chairman
of Christie's pulled me in and said, we really, we
really need to change this. We want to we wanna
we want to acquire your company. And so it was
not something that we were really My wife and I
were not really looking to do that, but it made
(05:21):
a lot of sense. They're the each company has the
same ethos there they were. It's really a perfect marriage.
So yeah, we're we're now working together and uh and
uh or technically I'm working for them and uh uh
we are busy expanding the business. I mean we're going
(05:44):
into Europe. Uh, We're we're looking at expanding our sales,
we're adding staff. So it's it's great. I mean, we're
we we have the financial wherewithal behind us now that
we can really compete on every level. So we're it's
super exciting for us.
Speaker 3 (06:00):
Can I just jump in and ask about your wife,
because I don't want to seem too cliche, but I've
always in my career hooked up with really smart women,
and uh, I think that's been one of my advantages
in life. Right my wife, Hannah Carol mass or you
you talk about your wife, I guess your your partners
(06:22):
in the business or what is that?
Speaker 4 (06:24):
Yes, one hundred percent partners. Now, I'm I'm in charge
of sales and and and uh a lot of the business.
But she she does all of our marketing and branding,
and she's involved in finance and operations. So we we
compliment each other very very well. And uh it's been
(06:47):
great for us because because the sales end of the
business requires so much travel and she doesn't have to
travel as much, and so, you know, we we just
it's been very good that, you know, while I'm out
on the road getting getting cars for these various auctions,
she's here holding down the fort. And you know, she
(07:12):
she is brilliant in terms of marketing. She has a
background in motion picture marketing. And her vision for our
brand and our look and our feel that that's all
her and we became very well known for that, and
so I just you know, it's a great, great partnership
(07:38):
and marriage.
Speaker 2 (07:39):
David, I guess I've never asked you this, but it
strikes me that you are sort of the face of
the company. I'm curious if did you and don ever
have a conversation that she actually doesn't want to have
to do the heavy lifting of like talking to people
like Matt and and she's very happy to let you
do that.
Speaker 3 (07:57):
Wait, this is heavy lifting for you.
Speaker 4 (08:01):
Well, this isn't heavylifting, but sometimes it's heavy lifting. Yeah,
I mean, we we I don't know if we actually
sat down and had that conversation or it just sort
of developed, but it's we agree. I mean, there's certainly,
there's so many things that she does that she does
so much better than I do that, so we just
we just stick in our certain lanes, you know, And
(08:23):
and it's kind of implicit. I think it's it's pretty
obvious there's a lot of things that I'm not very
good at that she handles, and so it's, uh, it
didn't need to be a conversation.
Speaker 1 (08:36):
That's great.
Speaker 4 (08:37):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:39):
So I'm okay.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
So back to what I really wanted to ask you too.
After the Christie's news, you know, did Christie's come to
you because they realized we need to get back into cars?
I mean, are they what are they seeing in the
market that made them think we need to get in
on this again.
Speaker 4 (09:00):
Yeah, well, I think they definitely saw that and realized it.
I mean, the car market has exploded over the last
few years, and they certainly were aware that so many
of their clients that collect in other categories also collecting cars,
and their competitors have car you know, vibrant car departments,
(09:28):
and so they just they knew that it was an
important aspect and it's quite you know, in the luxury
category and in everything that Christie's does, they are really
at the top of their field, and there was this
big vacuum where they just weren't in the car business,
and so that, you know, I think it became pretty
(09:51):
obvious that they needed to be So it worked out
really well. We were excited to join together.
Speaker 3 (09:58):
What is the unique selling point of Gooding. I mean,
you've even I know you've sold some really exclusive cars
the Yellowbird, uh dusenberg S, SJ and and some others
that I've read about. And you're very closely connected to
(10:19):
Pebble Beach where Hannah and I for the first time,
Hannah's been there a million times, will go in August.
Speaker 4 (10:27):
Great, I'm glad you're coming out. So yeah, I mean
we are. We've always been very involved at Pebble Beach.
We've been the auction house there. Well, Christie's was an
auction house there and then Gooding took over the spot.
So now it's it's great that it's good in Christie's again,
(10:47):
you know, I guess are we pride ourselves on not
doing the most sales, but really focusing on quality and
transparency and integrity, and and I think we're we're well,
I know, we're quite passionate about the objects we really enjoy.
(11:09):
We're very enthusiastic about the cars. Not to say that
others are not, but but we get we get really
focused on bringing out the best of every car that
we can that we consign, and we search search the world.
I just got back from from the UK too to
get a big car that we'll be announcing soon. So
(11:34):
we're constantly searching the world for the you know, the
best kind of cars that we can find that are
that are different, that we think will risk the market
will respond to really, well, what are you.
Speaker 2 (11:48):
Seeing like when you like when you just travel and
you're looking at cars, like, what has the market produced
this summer?
Speaker 4 (11:56):
So you know it's there there. We're offered a lot
and we turn away a lot. So the market, there
are a lot of things that people put towards us
that we say, you know, and they may be great cars,
but they may be priced too high or we feel
that there have been too many similar cars like that
(12:18):
offered on the market. We feel like, you know, we
want to we try to build a sale that is
interesting and has a lot to offer, and we also
are trying very hard to be conscious of what else
is coming on the market, and that's hard because obviously
our competitors don't you know, we don't know what they have,
(12:39):
and they don't know what we have. So we try
to balance things out and offer something that will be
that that will respond our clients will respond well.
Speaker 1 (12:49):
To what are people trying to.
Speaker 4 (12:55):
Some you know, here's the thing. I mean, sometimes it's
not what you know. We can we can hear, you know,
clients will say, oh, I want to you know, you know,
I want a really special roof, or I want you know,
I want this kind of Ferrari or or this kind
of Dusenberg. But but we actually always also try to
(13:17):
think what can we they don't necessarily Sometimes we can
try to anticipate what they want without them even knowing.
So that sounds a little.
Speaker 3 (13:29):
You know, we presumptuous.
Speaker 4 (13:31):
Yeah, presumptuous. I don't Yeah, yeah, I don't mean it
to be, but I.
Speaker 1 (13:34):
But I think that you're forecasting.
Speaker 4 (13:37):
Yeah, we can we can just see that, oh, this
is something really special. We know that their tastes are
like this, and therefore they would like that, and and
we try to match that. And it's exciting and you know,
it's really exciting when when it works. Sometimes it doesn't work,
but that's part of the fun of that's part of
(13:59):
the fun of the auction businesses. It is a real test.
I mean, you kind of you put yourself out there,
you put these cars out there, you're you know, and
the market speaks, and sometimes it applauds really loudly, and
sometimes it doesn't, and that's okay. You know, we all
learn from it. I like the I like the real feedback.
(14:20):
It's a real test. It's not some you know, kind
of manufactured thing that sometimes ourselves very well and sometimes
they don't. And that is the market speaking.
Speaker 2 (14:32):
It does seem like, you know, if the money is
in the room, the money is in the room, and
if it's not, yeah, figuratively speaking obviously, yeah.
Speaker 4 (14:40):
And you know, and sometimes we we have cars that
we're super excited about that we think we'll do exceptionally
well and they can do just okay, or you know,
other times they really surprise you. So it's you don't know,
you know, And that's when you think you know, then
then you're that dangerous. You can have an idea and
(15:02):
you you know, but you don't know for sure.
Speaker 2 (15:06):
What is the conversation that you're having with people selling things,
consigning things, and also those looking for things in terms
of are they talking about tariffs? Are they talking about
you know, economic and political factors.
Speaker 4 (15:25):
What's the chatter, well, the the the tariff, the introduction
of tariffs in April. We basically should have taken the
month off of April. We should we should we should
have all gone on vacation then, because it just stopped
all conversations. We were in discussion with a lot of
(15:45):
clients from from England and Europe who were talking about
giving bringing cars over to Pebble Beach, and it just
shut everything down. And uh, but not only that, even
our US clients were distracted by it. They obviously were
focusing on their investments, the stock market, you know, all
(16:09):
kinds of things, all of the news, and so that
certainly had an effect this year. So what that did
is it really compressed our time. I mean usually April
May June is a real busy time for us in
business gathering, in getting the consignments. What it did this
(16:29):
year is it compressed it all into June and now
we're just getting the last few cars in for Pebble
Beach in July. It's really tight. But yeah, so that's
that's what it's done. It's really just our windows. So
the I think all the noise, and I would call
it all the distraction of that has has calmed down
(16:55):
a little bit and people are ready to move on
and kind of you know, make decisions anyway and commitments anyway.
Speaker 2 (17:02):
So some of the concern sorry, Matt, I'll just I'll
let you I'll let you ask a question just to
follow up. Some of the concerns specifically was even if
you even if vintage cars were exempt from you know,
these very high tariffs, parts would still be taxed. Yeah,
And it was unclear if a car was had for
(17:25):
like you know, certain alloy or steel components, whether it
be taxed partially based on that percentage of the car.
Speaker 4 (17:31):
Right. It was just very it was very unclear, and
the messaging was unclear. So it was you know, people
saying it was chaos. Yeah, so, uh, you know, nobody
really knew and people didn't want to make big decisions,
which which I understand. But I think now it has
calmed down a little bit, and certainly for pre two
(17:55):
thousand cars, which is a lot of what we sell,
it's it's calmed down. And again I think a lot
of it was just people not wanting to focus on
their car side of their life and really focus more
on everything else that they were dealing with. I mean
a lot of these a lot of our clients are
(18:16):
very active in business, and so they were, you know,
there was they were dealing with more urgent issues first,
and then they kind of came out of the came
out of the cloud and could talk about their summer plans.
Speaker 3 (18:30):
You mentioned the pre two thousand cars, and I'm looking
at a list of it. Maybe you know, an Ai hallucination,
but a list of the most famous cars you've sold,
and almost all of them look like pre nineteen sixty.
You've got the Dusenberg, the afore mentioned Dusenberg nineteen thirty five,
Talbot Alago nineteen thirty seven, nineteen oh three, Mercedes Simplex.
(18:54):
But then you get a bunch of fifties ferraris right,
the requisite Bugatti Type fifty nine at Alfa Romeo eight
c also in nineteen thirties cars, and the only thing
modern I see is the Yellowbird nineteen eighty nine off
CTR yellow Bird and the nineteen ninety five McLaren F one.
(19:15):
Is that starting to change, a little?
Speaker 4 (19:17):
David? Are you?
Speaker 3 (19:18):
Are you selling newer cars or are people you know,
are the high highest networth individuals still focused on the
classic sort of pre war American cars and the fifties.
Speaker 4 (19:28):
Ferraris, Oh, we're definitely selling a lot more contemporary newer
cars than we ever did before. Definitely trending that way.
I mean in the what you're seeing in the you know,
north of ten million dollar range, they tend to be
more classic are cars, not as much that you know,
(19:50):
Porsches and things like that. But we have sold we
still hold a record for the Porsche mark with a
nine to seventeen that we sold. That's obviously a sixty Porsche,
but we sold the car we sold lamal winning Porsche
nine five six from the eighties. So there are much
(20:11):
more contemporary cars. A lot of our bread and butter
cars are are you know, nine ninety three Porsches and
more contemporary cars like that. Lots of more contemporary Ferraris Mercedes.
So yeah, we're seeing that, you know, we are. We've
(20:34):
sold McLaren f ones, will continue to sell McLaren f ones,
but to get to get north of fifteen million dollars,
it tends to be a classic era car and you know.
Speaker 3 (20:46):
But I see this nineteen ninety five. McLaren f one
sold a Pebble Beach in twenty seventeen for fifteen point
six two million dollars.
Speaker 4 (20:56):
That was we sold. No, we sold on McLaren f
one for more money than fifty team it brought brought
twenty Wow.
Speaker 3 (21:05):
Yeah, that is a stunning.
Speaker 4 (21:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:09):
Are the people who buy something like that? Is that
someone who's buying like bitcoin and lives in Dubai?
Speaker 1 (21:21):
Like what type of buyer is that?
Speaker 4 (21:24):
So that was names but you can't Yeah, yeah, I
can give you sort of a profile that that was
a an American collector who we've known for a long time.
And I was a bit surprised that he that he
bought that car that was newer territory for him. But yeah, no,
(21:50):
I mean he's a he's a he is a you know,
follows the typical profile of our of our clientele.
Speaker 3 (21:59):
Are these guys all anonymous or do you have buyers
who are pretty open about what they're doing?
Speaker 4 (22:04):
Both?
Speaker 3 (22:05):
Are?
Speaker 4 (22:05):
There are some that are very open and a lot
tend to be more anonymous, But yeah, they're they're very open.
Some are extremely private about it. But yeah, I would say,
you know it tends to be about seventy percent are
pretty anonymous about it. But then of course when they
take these cars to a classic car show or to
(22:26):
a concord, you know, it all gets revealed.
Speaker 2 (22:36):
Can I ask you about the conversation that you have
with sellers about reserve prizes? And this is something Met
and I have discussed and debated before about the merits
of having a reserve. Yeah, what do you counsel people?
And maybe it depends on the car and you can
talk to us about the nuances, but what are the
(22:58):
benefits of setting a reserve or not? Because I think
you know, if you don't have a reserve, the market
truly speaks for itself.
Speaker 4 (23:06):
It does, you know. We well, we have we have
these sales estate sales oftentimes where everything is no reserve.
And you know, the cars that we have at any
of our auctions, anything two hundred and fifty thousand dollars
or below is without reserve. Oftentimes we have cars that
(23:30):
are north of that value that are without reserve. You know,
I think particularly on high production, easy to value cars,
I think of like a three hundred sl is going
or a roadster that is a perfect car, that is
(23:50):
a perfect valuable car. You know, they tend to be.
They're worth over a million dollars. That is a perfectly safe,
valuable car to it in at no reserve. Now that's
easy for me to say, it's not it's not you know,
it's not my it's not my neck on the line there.
Speaker 1 (24:09):
But it's it's kind of a known thing.
Speaker 4 (24:12):
It's in this day and age, especially at an auction
like Pebble Beach, it's the world stage. It's it's where
the many world records are set. Year after year after year,
everyone will be there. A three hundred sl is going
to sell for a market price, whatever the market. If
you're if you're accepting I'm going to sell the car
this year, I'm going to sell it for a market price.
(24:33):
I would I think it's better to put it in
no reserve if you if you're comfortable with that, because
actually what that does is it focuses all of the
potential buyers. They think, oh, you know, I'm kind of
casually looking at that car, but I'm not sure if
it's really gonna if it's priced writer or you know,
maybe it will sell, maybe it won't sell. When you
(24:54):
say it's no reserve, it is going to sell. It's
going to walk on stage. It's selling no matter what.
So so you or get you know, you better really
focused because if you want to you know, if you think, oh,
I'll pay one point two for that car all day long,
well you better look at it. You better do your
research because it could sell for it could sell for
one point one, it could sell for one point three.
But you you know, get get get in the get
(25:16):
in the fight. And uh so, definitely no reserve can
be great. Uh it of course can be can be risky,
but I think I think it's very good again, especially
on cars that are like that or or cars that
are you know, so fresh to the market. And and
(25:40):
you know, if you have if you have a low
cost basis and you really just want to you're going
to sell the car anyway, it's better to just put it,
put it at no reserve.
Speaker 2 (25:49):
And as a spectator, it's exciting. I mean I love
going to auctions just to watch. I think they're so fun.
People should do it.
Speaker 1 (25:57):
It's yeah.
Speaker 4 (25:57):
I I I often encourage people come watch, even if
you're not you're not into cars, it's just an interesting
dynamic to see it. So I'm excited Matt that you're
going to be uh.
Speaker 3 (26:09):
Oh, I can't wait. By the way, did you were
you in the car or is this uh?
Speaker 4 (26:16):
Is it is?
Speaker 3 (26:17):
Did you get into cars because the auction business or
have you always been kind of a gearhead?
Speaker 4 (26:21):
I my dad was an automotive museum curator, so I
grew up in an automotive museum. So yeah, I he
told me, don't ever get in the car business. You
you love cars, you want to collect them. You'll never
make money in the in the car business. You should
be a dentist. I'm glad I didn't follow his advice.
He gave me a lot of other great advice, though,
(26:42):
but he was he was as a museum curator. Really
never was able to collect the cars that he was
passionate about. But what it did, was it it? You know,
it gave me a great education. After school. Every day
I would go to these automotive museums and study the
cars and study the hang out in the libraries and
(27:03):
read the books. And you know, I had no, no,
no plans to go into this business. But I needed
a job out of college.
Speaker 3 (27:12):
And so what's your thing? I mean, like, I guess
since your dad is a museum curator, you probably already
had very sort of Hoteku tour taste. I never heard
of a Talbot logo, for example.
Speaker 4 (27:28):
Yeah and yeah, yeah, you know. So my thing I
really love, really I love performance cars from any era.
So what a lot of people don't realize is the
very old cars, you know, pre World War One cars
can be very exciting and fun to drive and very fast,
(27:49):
and so I really like that era car. I like
cars from the thirties. I love cars from the thirties,
but anything that is really performance oriented, the fifties and sixties.
They're just different eras that are magical and exciting, and
so I grew up around all of those and I
have a natural love for those. But I've come to
(28:14):
love more contemporary cars as well. So I like it all,
but I think my natural I would say, my natural
soft spot is pre seventy four and earlier, So anything
from We've sold eighteen ninety six steam car, sorry, eighteen
eighty six steam car, which was a race car from
(28:37):
eighteen eighty six, which is kind of crazy.
Speaker 1 (28:40):
That's not the one you had at Retromobile.
Speaker 4 (28:43):
That was the three Mercedes.
Speaker 1 (28:46):
Okay, okay, okay, fantastic another.
Speaker 2 (28:48):
I will always obviously sort of remember that car.
Speaker 4 (28:51):
That was incredible car, absolutely incredible car. That was the
McLaren F one of nineteen three and unbelievable car, maybe
the most important car we ever sold.
Speaker 2 (29:01):
So and I asked about the restoration of those cars.
Do you guys do in house restoration and how go?
And like, okay, so, how does that work? If someone
has something that you know is really significant but it
needs a little bit of love.
Speaker 4 (29:18):
So I mean, we will do very light work to
bring a car back to life if we have a
if we have a barn discovery, uh, and we think
it can be brought you know, it could be running
with just a very little effort of you know, changing
the oil and fluids and fuel and whatnot. We'll do that.
(29:40):
But we tend not to to do restoration work. We're
not we're not a restoration business. We don't we actually
have that's a whole complicated specialty that that we have
tremendous respect for and we're we're we're friends and we
love to collaborate with a lot of these restoration shops
(30:00):
and you know they do they do what they do
very very well, and we don't. We don't want to
compete with them, and so we'll we'll send work their
way and they'll they'll often refer cars to us. But
that's a you know, restoration is I have tremendous respect
for for for those specialists and experts, so we tend
(30:24):
you know. The other thing is I mean from a
from a market point of view. Also layered on top
of what I just said, was that you'd never quite
know what the next client is going to want to
do with the car. They may want to not touch
it at all. You know, we had a we had
an alloy alloy body two seventy five Ferrari that was
(30:44):
covered in dust and and and we pulled it out
of this uh barn and the fellow the bought it
just got a running but he didn't touch it. It's
still dirty, it looks it needs a car wash, but
he just drives it around like that. He uses it
and drives it like that. So you never you don't
want to make an assumption of what a client will
want to do with the car. And you know, sometimes
(31:08):
clients will want to restore them. Sometimes I want to
leave them exactly as they are. Sometimes they'll do something in.
Speaker 2 (31:14):
The middle that's actually really cool. I mean it's a
way to get your Ferrari to stand out.
Speaker 4 (31:20):
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I was a little surprised.
I mean, I actually I thought in this he's an
incredible client and friend. But I if I were initially,
I would have washed the car, you know, And now
that I now, it's been about ten years and I
think it looks really cool, and I'm I applaud them.
I'm like, God, I'm glad. I'm glad that wasn't me.
(31:41):
I would have cleaned it and it would have looked
like so many other two seven fives, and now it
stands out and looks different. He cleaned the windows so
he could see out of it. But that's it.
Speaker 3 (31:50):
By the way, David, you obviously develop relationships with I'm
sure the sellers and the buyers here. And so if
I look at a list of the cars you sell,
most of them are at Pebble Beach or at Amelia Island.
And but I wonder if someone would come to you
and say, listen, I want to sell this, you know, Bugatti,
(32:12):
but I don't want to do it at an auction.
Do you know anybody who wants to buy it? Do
you do like more a substantial amount of private sales
like that.
Speaker 4 (32:20):
Yes we do. We've we did many private sales. We actually, well,
Bugatti is a great example. We sold a Bugatti years
ago for a family they had, the Williamson family. They
had one of the best Bugatti collections ever assembled, and
we sold ten of the cars to and all of
the money went for charity at auction. But then the
(32:43):
Bugatti Atlantique, which was there, it's one of the greatest
Bugattis there is, they wanted that sold privately, so we
we did a private sale of that. So yes, we
do private sales. We've we've sold we have the highest
price world record for were a Ferrari, which we sold privately.
Actually we've sold many Ferraris, but two fifty gto. We've
(33:08):
sold a couple of two fifty gto Ferraris privately. So yes,
we'll do private sales. We you know, I mean more
of our sales are at auction, but definitely we do
private sales. And it really depends on the car, the timing,
the needs of the seller that we really give advice
and oftentimes people will say I want to sell something privately,
(33:30):
but then we'll counsel them and say, well, you know,
I mean, if where do we think something will sell best?
Speaker 3 (33:40):
So it really depends, by the way, do you ever
talk to when I think about Bugatties, I think about
the classics initially only, but then I think about they
still make cars that are really cool and they I
was lucky enough to go to Mulesheim and see you know,
you know, the mansion and the factory, and it was
(34:02):
such a cool thing.
Speaker 4 (34:03):
Do you ever talk to like.
Speaker 3 (34:06):
The people who are building these new cars and they say, hey, David,
what should we do about these tail lights don't work right?
Or you know, you know, like give anybody advice because
you not just an auctioneer. Obviously your father was a
museum curator, so you're someone with vast knowledge of the
histories of these marks.
Speaker 4 (34:25):
Yeah. Well, I've been to many of the factories. I
have not been to the Bugatti factory, and I would
love to go. It's it's on my list of things
to do. But I have been to many of the factories,
and we've been involved in launches of new cars. It's
throughout the years and everything. They've never no one's ever
(34:47):
consulted us on on on designing, so I don't know.
I h that's us, yes, exactly, that's that's maybe a goal. Yeah.
When I was a kid, I wanted to be a
our designer. But you know, now it's so uh, committee
driven and everything. I don't know, I think it might
be kind of frustrating to you know. They used to
(35:12):
be you know, it used to be the vision of
one person that could really make their design scene. But
now it's uh, now it's very corporate and everything. So no,
I haven't been involved in design but yet, but yeah,
I would love to.
Speaker 3 (35:29):
I wasn't thinking about Folkswagen. I was thinking about like
Horatio Pagani.
Speaker 5 (35:34):
Or yeah you know or you knoweah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
yeah I should see, yeah, something something else to do.
Speaker 2 (35:44):
So right, David, what's your advice for Matt or anyone
or me going to the Pebble Beach Monterey Car Week,
especially from you guys at the auction. But what should
we be watching for? What do you want to uh,
what do you want to highlight?
Speaker 4 (36:01):
Well, you know, going to I mean, you know, Matt,
if it's your first time, just sit in the audience
and watch it all unfold. As I say, it's it's
exciting to see there will be some things that perform
(36:22):
very very well. Uh and kind of just watch it,
you know, see see if you can pick out why
they why they perform well, if you can, if you
can walk around during the viewing, look at the cars
ahead of time. You know, when we you see the cars,
we photograph them beautifully. They they're there. It's but when
(36:43):
you see them in person, they really come. I mean,
there's just like I mean, you know, it's amazing.
Speaker 3 (36:51):
And they will brag and say, I've been invited to
ride in a Dusenberg in the dawn patrol. I don't
know what that is.
Speaker 1 (36:58):
Patrol, Matt, you have to do that.
Speaker 4 (37:00):
You're going to do that, Yeah for sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
Oh that's super exciting.
Speaker 3 (37:03):
Oh yeah, someone who works for Mikheil Haggerty invited me
to ride in his So that's great.
Speaker 4 (37:14):
Yeah, oh you definitely definitely, you'll you'll enjoy that. That
is a that's a very special thing to experience, rolling
on the on the lawn in the car like that.
Speaker 3 (37:23):
I don't think I've ever ridden in pre war car
at all, in any pre war car, so yeah, it'll
be new for me.
Speaker 4 (37:30):
Oh that'll be that'll be fun. You'll enjoy that. My
favorite event of the week is the Thursday the tour
because you see all the cars that are going to
be on the loan on Sunday, but they're out there
for the first time. Oftentimes the owners are seeing them
after extensive restorations for the first time, and the cars
(37:52):
fire up and they take off, and to see the
cars in motion, you know, at fairly good speed as
opposed to you know, driving driving over a ramp, which
is one thing, which is great, but to see them
like take off and fire up, it's it's really that's special.
So definitely soak in the Thursday the Thursday thing, and
(38:14):
the great thing is you can you can watch all
that unfold and then just walk right into our tent
and look at the viewing and then kind of study
the cars and then you'll see them sell on Friday
and Saturday night.
Speaker 1 (38:26):
Soak it all up. Yeah, that is a really cool
thing about Pebble Beach.
Speaker 2 (38:30):
It's like each one of those cars that you see
on the lawn actually runs, and that's part of what
they're evaluated on these art you know.
Speaker 1 (38:39):
Yes, yes, trailer queens, yeah.
Speaker 4 (38:42):
Yeah, yeah, And hearing them and seeing them in motion
and seeing them with against you know, seeing cars in context.
I mean that's the you know, when you when you
see them with other cars of the era or you know,
you really begin to appreciate how incredible they were for
their time or still are, and that's really that's really exciting,
(39:07):
so that you know, I love I love the tour
for that reason. And the other nice thing about the
tour is that the cars are mixed up. They're not
by class. It's fun to see them in class on
the lawn on Sunday, but to see them there, you know,
you'll see you'll see a tiny little Alfa Romeo next
to a giant Dusenberger Mercedes or you know, in different eras,
(39:29):
and all are fantastic. So it's really fun.
Speaker 2 (39:33):
David, I know we're coming to the end of our time,
but I also want to ask about Retromobile.
Speaker 1 (39:37):
Yes, next year, this is you know.
Speaker 2 (39:40):
This really fabulous car show that's been in Paris for
many years, but it's coming to the States, and I
know you guys are a big part of that. Can
you kind of give us a preview of what to expect?
Speaker 4 (39:51):
Sure, so Retromobile, you've been to Retromobile, I don't know
Matt if you've been, but if not, that's another thing
you've got to do, so I love to. Yeah, okay, Well,
so Retromobile in Paris it's the it's the biggest car
event in Europe. It happens the end of January and February.
We're doing an auction there where the selected auction house
(40:13):
to hold an auction there, so we're super excited about that.
It will be our first auction in France. And then
Retromobile for the first time is moving that magical, fantastic,
unique event to bring it to bring it to the
United States. It'll be in New York at the Javit
(40:33):
Center in November and we're going to do an auction
there and Retromobile for people that are not familiar with it,
it is like the the best automobile trade show there is.
I mean, there are the world's top dealers bring they
build these fantastic stands and shows and show their top
(40:56):
cars that they have for sale. There are manufacturers that
bring out their latest cars as well as their heritage cars,
private collectors clubs. It's it's really wonderful. And then then
there are little sections where where you can buy vintage
car parts or or fashion. You know, if you if
you want to buy helmets or goggles and you know,
(41:19):
driving shoes things like that. There's all kinds of things.
If you're looking for that carburetor that you haven't found
for for you know, years and years, you might find
it there. It's it's just a great event like nothing else.
Speaker 2 (41:32):
It is really cool and I really hope, I mean,
it's so charming in Paris because it's Paris. Yes, I
really hope New York can kind of develop its own
spin on it, you know, and really it'll take hold.
Speaker 4 (41:47):
Yeah, I'm confident that that that that it will. I mean,
the organizers are very excited about they're extremely creative, and
they want to bring the French flair but keep keep
it American, but but bring the whole ethos of Retromobile
Paris to New York. And you know, they were they
were debating different cities, and we had discussed it a
(42:09):
little bit, and I said, come on, there's there's like
the the obvious city is New York. I mean you know, yeah, exactly.
And you know, the fun thing, the great fun thing
about that event, unlike some other car events where you're
kind of just locked into just being at the car event.
The great thing about Retrobile is you come and go.
(42:29):
It happens over a few days. So you know, in
Paris you go in and then you go have a
fantastic meal or something outside and come back, you know
later in the day or the next day. Same kind
of thing will happen in New York. People will will
come and go and enjoy the city around it and
just have have the magic of the venue the city
(42:51):
all around you.
Speaker 3 (42:52):
By the way, one one more question. I know we're
running up against the clock here, but for people who
can't spend a lot of time going to Retromobile, going
to Pebble Beach, what are some good resources to be
introduced to this world, because you know, there's not some
(43:12):
very popular pre war car forum, but I know there's
some books.
Speaker 4 (43:18):
I'm also there are there's there's a there, there are
some but they're not perhaps known as well.
Speaker 3 (43:23):
There's like pre work card that is accessible right right, right,
So do I go to the REVS Institute.
Speaker 4 (43:32):
Or yes, yes, yes, rev. REVS is fantastic, I'm very
involved there, incredible resource. REVS is wonderful, Peterson is wonderful. Uh.
There there are the Peterson Siams fantastic. There are many resources.
There are also clubs that are that that do great.
(43:54):
They have great resources as well. So it really depends
on the type of car that you're you know.
Speaker 3 (44:00):
I'm just worrying about the pre war stuff, you know,
because I'd love to get into like a flathead V
eight and I don't know nineteen thirties Ford, but I
don't know, like there's no hot rod clubs around me
that I know about, and I don't have access to
Miles Collier on the regular basis, So like, who who
are the people who know this stuff? What books?
Speaker 4 (44:20):
Can you read it? You can? Yeah, I mean the
start off by going to you know, go on the
REVS website. That's a that's a great source. You live
in New York, right, yep, Okay, let's see in the
New York area, I mean there are there are cars
and coffee events. I can definitely you know, I'd be
(44:43):
happy to connect you with some VA four guys that
they're great. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean I've got
a lot of friends up in Vermont area that are
into VA Fords and stuff, so I could connect you there. Yeah.
It's a it's a great world. And those cars are fun, beautiful,
(45:05):
very affordable. I think a tremendous value. So yeah, I'm
I'm excited for you. I think that's a that's a
that's a great event. So things like you know, if
not too far from New York, but in no sorry,
October is the Hershey Classic Car Swap Meet. You will
(45:27):
see tons of tons of cars there. There's thousands of
cars and many many, many V eight Fords and things
like that, and people that are crazy about them. So yeah,
we can we can connect you with all kinds of people.
Speaker 3 (45:41):
Very cool, a new mission. Yeah, David, it's been fantastic
talking to you. Thank you so much for joining us.
Our thanks to David Gooding, president and founder of Gooding
and Company, for joining us. And that does it for
this edition of Hot Pursuit. For Hanna Elliott, I'm Matt Miller,
and this is Bloomberg
Hosts And Creators
Hannah Elliott
Matt Miller
Popular Podcasts
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
My Favorite Murder is a true crime comedy podcast hosted by Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark. Each week, Karen and Georgia share compelling true crimes and hometown stories from friends and listeners. Since MFM launched in January of 2016, Karen and Georgia have shared their lifelong interest in true crime and have covered stories of infamous serial killers like the Night Stalker, mysterious cold cases, captivating cults, incredible survivor stories and important events from history like the Tulsa race massacre of 1921. My Favorite Murder is part of the Exactly Right podcast network that provides a platform for bold, creative voices to bring to life provocative, entertaining and relatable stories for audiences everywhere. The Exactly Right roster of podcasts covers a variety of topics including historic true crime, comedic interviews and news, science, pop culture and more. Podcasts on the network include Buried Bones with Kate Winkler Dawson and Paul Holes, That's Messed Up: An SVU Podcast, This Podcast Will Kill You, Bananas and more.
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com