May 16, 2025 • 55 mins
Ineos CEO Lynn Calder joins the pod to talk about the rigs everybody seems to want. Plus, Hannah drives the Mercedes EQS 450 electric vehicle to Las Vegas and Matt sells his mom on a Subaru.
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
I'm Matt Miller and I'm Hannah Elliott, and this is
Hot Pursuit.
Speaker 3 (00:24):
All right, we have a fantastic guest for you today.
She runs the company that makes a vehicle that we
talk about I think a fair amount.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Lynn called her the CEO of Ineos, and we've been
talking about Ineos because I had one a few weeks
ago and really enjoyed it. Thought it was great, thought
it was interesting, fascinating, a great value for money. And
Lynn's awesome. I was really happy to meet her and
talk to her. She needs to be a regular.
Speaker 3 (00:52):
Yeah, She's really cool and it was a great conversation.
The vehicle, obviously, is one that for cars people. I
think everyone knows about it because everyone loved the Old Defender,
and when Landrover stopped making the Old Defender, it was
pretty disappointing to the world of automotive enthusiasts, right.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
You could say that, yeah, and it seemed like why
would they They destroyed something that everyone wants, which is
a long heritage, you know, wrought over time on this
iconic shape that everyone recognizes.
Speaker 3 (01:29):
Yes, and fortunately it wasn't just you know, penniless internet
auto growth fanboys.
Speaker 4 (01:38):
Yeah exactly.
Speaker 3 (01:40):
It was also a billionaire at a pub and one
of the most expensive places on the planet, Belgravia.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
That's kind of what it takes, isn't it like it
does take a billionaire.
Speaker 3 (01:51):
Let's let's get straight to the interview, and then afterwards
we have a couple of things to cover.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
Such great timing because I just drove the field Master
and it was my first experience with your product after
hearing about it for years and seeing them driving around,
especially Beverly Hills, but all over LA and I have
to say I was really pleasantly surprised. So of course
(02:18):
Matt has been talking about us as well, So it's
really nice to have you. What I'm trying to say
is it's really nice to have you here with us, Lynn,
and the product is really fascinating to me, and I
had such a nice time testing it. And this is
not a question, really, I guess it's just more of
an intro. Maybe Matt jumps in my question, but that
(02:41):
kind of explains why we're so eager to talk to you,
because to me, this is a fascinating company and a
fascinating story, and I'm just also fascinated to hear about
your life and your background, and maybe this is the
question you come from more of a like a petrochemical background,
right am I am? I get that right? Can you
just sort of walk us through, like how did you
(03:03):
end up leading this really amazing interesting company.
Speaker 1 (03:08):
Yeah, it is a great place to start, and thanks
so much to you both for having me on. And
it's always great to talk about the Grenadier. But yeah,
let's spend a minute on me. I mean twenty years
in energy, actually a few years in petrochemicals, which is
all kind of linked. You just move a little bit
down the chain. Joined Anni Els nine years ago from
(03:30):
private equity, and yeah, three years ago, got the kind
of question which is can you go and help out
a little bit and Automotive because it's been a project, right,
it's been about developing and building a car. It's not
been about a business. But now it needs to be
about a business. We're ready to produce it, we're ready
to take it to the market globally, and can you
(03:51):
go in and take a look and see what we
need to do and help us out a little bit?
And yeah, two months later it was like, yeah, you
just need to give up whatever you were doing before,
which was running a chemicals business, and just do this
full time because you know, we need to get this
up and running.
Speaker 5 (04:07):
So yeah, what a gig.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
I feel like I'm the luckiest person in the world
to get such a bizarre, random and wonderful opportunity.
Speaker 2 (04:16):
Moving into an automotive space when you have not worked
in that space, to me is actually I would consider
that an asset. I'm curious how you dealt with that,
because the automotive world can also be rather insular and
really sort of tightly closed off if they don't think
(04:36):
you have the quote right credentials whatever that even means
to be working in cars. Did you face any of that?
And I think it's a huge asset to come from
an outside sector. Did you find that as well?
Speaker 5 (04:51):
I think it is an asset.
Speaker 1 (04:52):
I think moving any sector I mean energy to chemicals,
as I say, is not such a big step, but
it's still a move. It's still people using acronyms that
you haven't heard before. Way, I think it is absolutely
an asset. Is that you ask all the dumb questions, right,
and a lot of the answers to the dumb questions,
are you dumb ass, this is the answer, and they're right.
(05:14):
But a lot of the questions are, well, this is
our The answers are, it's just why we've always done
it this way, this is how we do it around here.
And actually, when you really scratch below the surface again
and again and again, and you keep asking and people
have to really delve into why, then you quite often get, oh,
actually we can do this differently. And because I might
be new to the sector, but of course Ineos is
(05:36):
as well, and we've kind of got freedom therefore to
not reinvent the wheel when we don't need to, and
learn from the best, but also say, heck, we don't
need to do it like that. We can do it
our way. We can go a more agile way, or
we can go a more you know out there. Let's
just sort of rip up the rule book, which we
kind of like doing. Let's face it and do our
(06:00):
and so it's kind of you know, I'm just really
fortunate to work for a company like this. I don't
think I'll be joining you know, any other large OEM
anytime soon, but for Anios it works.
Speaker 3 (06:09):
So I want to just introduce the vehicle because not
everybody knows not everybody's hanging out in Beverly Hills all
the time, right. This was Jim Ratcliffe is a British
I think British billionaire, right, who owns Eneos, which is,
you know, a chemicals company.
Speaker 4 (06:30):
Right.
Speaker 3 (06:31):
And when land Rover stopped making the Defender, which was
almost ten years ago, now, I guess he had this
idea at the Grenadier, which is an amazing little pub
in Belgravia, to make his own version. I guess he
had approached land Rover and said, like, can I have
(06:52):
the plans or the copyright or whatever trademark and they
said forget it. So he made his own version. And
I think it's so cool. I think we've all dreamt
about like making our own vehicle, you know, but we
don't have the means and this guy does.
Speaker 4 (07:08):
So he just did it.
Speaker 3 (07:09):
And how long did it take from you know, from
that pint at the Grenadier to the first one rolling
off the line? Like how long has this project been underway?
Speaker 1 (07:23):
So from start standing start and it was an absolute
standing start to the first production vehicle off the line
of quite a large state of the art factory in
France was five years and we're now eight years or
seven and a half years in really and you know,
two and a half years worth of selling now fifty countries.
So you know, it's a great intro map. But it's
(07:45):
not just having the means, it's having the kind of
the kuhunas to do it right. It's the you know,
really it's such a bold thing to do, and it's
bold because it's it's really there's a reason why people
don't start automotive company generally.
Speaker 3 (08:01):
Yeah, for sure hard And also he had to I
guess there must have been some legal action, right, because
it doesn't look exactly like a defender, but.
Speaker 4 (08:11):
To most people it does.
Speaker 3 (08:14):
I mean, it's the same shape, it's the same idea,
it has the same kind of to some extent, off
road manners. Right, So how did how did he how
did you pull that off?
Speaker 1 (08:27):
Well, look, I think there's we don't shy away from
the fact there was an inspiration here. You know, the
whole idea, as you said at the beginning, Matt, was
you know there's a gap in the market now because
they've left, and you know, the original conversation was with them.
We didn't then set out to just sort of go
and build our version of it. I mean four by
four is a boxy shape so that you can put
you know, really each corner and have maximum visibility. So
(08:50):
you know, a de Wagon looks kind of similar, and
a Landover, an old Landover Defender, looks quite similar because
these are hardcore, original four by fours to do the job.
And I think that, you know, the idea was then
to fill that gap that we believe exists because everyone
else has left the space to go more kind of
crossover into like a lifestyle brand, which is working really
(09:12):
well for them, by the way, I think. So I
think that you know, the car is actually quite different.
I think the sentiment, the feel of the car is
quite different. Of course, it's a modern, refined version as well,
so it's got a lot of modern comforts compared to
some of the older four by fours. That said, we
did find ourselves embroiled and a legal battle or two,
(09:34):
and we navigated those by winning them.
Speaker 3 (09:36):
So I heard that slight dig at the G class
at the G Wagon. We love that vehicle, But what
do you think it is that sets apart the Grenadier
from you know, a G Wagon or even a jeep
Wrangler or a Bronco Like what makes this the ultimate
(09:57):
off road or ultimate.
Speaker 4 (10:01):
Kind of four by four vehicle.
Speaker 1 (10:03):
I think the g Wagon's a great vehicle, by the way,
it absolutely wasn't a dig and I think that it's
just a recognition that where the market has gone for
those kind of vehicles that were at their core, at
their origin, a kind of extreme four by four, the
market is taking them in a direction which is most
people are not taking them off road, right, So the
(10:24):
idea was to go back to first principles. So you know,
it's it's the ladder frame, it's the you know, the
the diff locks, it's the ground clearance, it's the wheel articulation,
it's all of the things that the approach and the
departure angles. It's the extreme thought that's gone into every
aspect of what this car should be capable of doing.
(10:46):
And in my opinion, an ar chief engineer really gets
annoyed with me when I say this, but you know,
it's way over engineered for anything that anyone's actually going
to do with it.
Speaker 4 (10:56):
So that's lacking, i think from the market in general,
no matter what kind of car you're looking.
Speaker 1 (11:01):
For, Yeah, it's blatantly over engineered, which you know makes
the commercial job a little more difficult, but you know,
he corrects me every time and says it's overspect and
not over engineered. So look, I mean, I don't think
you know, I think there are other very capable bull
cars in the market, and there's literally no doubt that,
you know, all of the vehicles were mentioning right now,
(11:22):
whether it's g Wagon, Land or are all extremely capable
of roaders. It's just that we've kind of filled a space,
which is this is what the car is for, this
is the purpose, and therefore everything starts with that.
Speaker 2 (11:36):
I remember when I was driving the field Master and
doing the review, I talked to a lot of my
friends who are really big off roaders, and there are
two questions for me that I actually spoke with Gregor about,
but I'd love to hear your part two is are
would they ever put a manual in? And would they
ever do a diesel engine? And that, you know, speaking
(11:58):
about what your customers want and respecting the vehicles. You know,
Matt and I talk about this all the time. We
talk about how everyone says they want a manual, but
the takewoad is always really low. What's the conversation for
you guys at ineos about doing a manual doing a
diesel engine, and on top of that, you know, are
you feeling pressure around emissions regulations to try to comply.
(12:23):
What is that whole conversation like for you guys?
Speaker 1 (12:27):
Yeah, okay, So let's I was going to start with
the easy one, which is powertrain first, but given the
admissions question, I'll come back to it.
Speaker 5 (12:33):
So manual, I mean, sure.
Speaker 1 (12:35):
It's it's an automatic automatic transmission, you know, eight speed ZF.
It's excellent with the BMW engine that we've put in
the car. And you know, most people, despite everything I've
just said about the purpose of the vehicle, are driving
it more on road than off and therefore, you know,
the manual the automatic transmission works really well. You can
(12:56):
you can sort of nudge it into manual. And actually
where I use the in manual mode is normally on
like really steep descents, because we have an automatic descent
control mode, which I you don't feel the need to
use if I can just flick it into first gear.
So you know, there's the opportunity to do that when
you're off roading. It's not quite as neat as having
(13:18):
paddles on the steering wheel, but it kind of works
for me, and that's how I would use it. So
as a result of that, we're not planning to kind
of build like a pure manual car. I think it's
got enough optionality in it. We do have a diesel engine,
it's just not available in the US.
Speaker 2 (13:34):
Oh okay, well.
Speaker 1 (13:37):
Yeah, And actually, I mean that's just because you know
that aren't really there isn't that much call for diesel
vehicles in the US.
Speaker 5 (13:44):
They'll be you know, a cohort of extremely.
Speaker 1 (13:48):
You know, dedicated off roaders that would love a diesel
and you know, can probably import one because we have them. Weirdly,
you know, our market has been come we skewed now
if you look at our diesel versus gas engines, because
before we launched in the US, we were probably about
seventy percent diesel, but with the US coming onto the books,
(14:13):
we're probably about fifty to fifty now diesel and gas worldwide.
And then emissions, I mean, gosh, it's such a topic,
much much more so in Europe than I think it
is in the US. And not only are we under
pressure to kind of bring new power trains to market
that are not really that well equipped for a really
(14:35):
serious off roader because you know, an electric Randidier is
just not going to work. The Grandeur's two point seven tons, like,
it's not gonna We're not going to fit a battery
in this car, and for it, you know, for it
to be used off road, it's not going to work.
Speaker 2 (14:48):
You had toyter round and then decided, you know, it's
we're going to pivot.
Speaker 3 (14:52):
Which I'm here to tell you that the electric g
Wagon works.
Speaker 4 (14:56):
I just had one for a week and it was
pretty amazing.
Speaker 3 (14:59):
In fact, I used to have a gas g Wagon
and I think electric works even better for that platform.
Speaker 5 (15:07):
So no, and it's it's really cool.
Speaker 1 (15:09):
It's just that we would have to change our platformat
because you know, the way that we've kind of engineered
the car, the ladder frame, the weight of it, you
can't then put a battery in it. So the g
Wagon is on a completely different platform, and that's what
we would have to do as well. So what we
actually launched instead of an electric Grenadier was a new
model called the Fuselier, which is on a skateboard platform
rather than a ladder frame. So the entire you know,
(15:32):
the entire frame of the car is light enough to
withstand a pretty serious battery to allow you to be
able to do pretty serious off roading.
Speaker 5 (15:41):
So that's the solution.
Speaker 1 (15:42):
It's just that we can't really reverse engineer the Grenadier
to be an electric version. No doubt, you can have
a really solid off road electric car, and that's what
we aim to do with the Fuselier.
Speaker 4 (15:54):
I respect that. Hey, how do you deal with the
dealership issue?
Speaker 3 (16:00):
Because all of your competitors, even land Rover, has dealers,
regardless of how often people complain about them. Did you
have to start a new dealership network? I mean here
in the US, in Europe, in Asia that seems like
almost as big and undertaking as developing a car.
Speaker 1 (16:22):
Oh, I'm so glad you recognize that, Matt, because I
think you know, the car is the hard bit.
Speaker 5 (16:26):
But you're right.
Speaker 1 (16:27):
Getting it out to market in you know, within fifty
countries now, that's you know, getting on for three hundred
retail locations and building that in two and a half
years has been really challenging as well. It's worked really
particularly well in the US, though, I would say, because
we've got you know, a really really strong dealer franchise
(16:50):
model in the US that I know, you know, we've
kind of as car manufacturers, tried to pick apart at
various times over over the last ten years to see
if we can be more direct consumer. But we did
that in one or two of it other markets. It
doesn't work very well. And I think that what we
have in the US now is a network of extremely strong, passionate,
(17:11):
supportive dealers who are out there, you know, kind of
scrapping with us to build this brand. So it's worked
really well.
Speaker 2 (17:18):
I have to say this, actually this last weekend, I
was just out in Pasadena at the Rose Bowl and
drove past Russnak Yeah yeah, which has such a good
reputation in California, and your guys section of that dealership
look fabulous, and I mean you had there were lots
of rigs out there. It looked really great. And I
(17:39):
think Russnak is the dealer that did the loan the
press loan for me too, So you know, for what
it's worth, that was a really positive experience. It was
nice to see and nice to experience that.
Speaker 1 (17:49):
And that's really great to hear, Hannah, Hannah, because you know,
that's exactly what we need, is people getting the best
experience possible. This is all about the customer. People are
spending their hard earned cash on a new car, not
just a new car, but a new concept of a
car and a new company that hasn't done this before.
Although we've worked with a massive amount of the best
(18:11):
experts in the business, so we believe that we've delivered
a really strong vehicle, but it's there's a big leap
of faith and we need to work with the best
of the best that are really putting the.
Speaker 5 (18:21):
Customer at the heart of that.
Speaker 1 (18:23):
And so I think we built a lot of the
network through relationships in a way with people like Brian
from Ruznak, which is okay, you know, and when we
get them all in a room together, I think they
look around the room and say, oh yeah, you know,
they respect to one another because they're the kind of
people that really know what they're doing, that have been
in the business a long time, but mainly put the
(18:44):
customer first, and they've taken a leap of faith with
us as well.
Speaker 2 (18:47):
What would you say, is there a single point of
has a tendency that you seem to get from consumers
who might be interested in buying and a grenadier, But
you know, is there one specific thing that is really
a stumbling block for them that you guys are working
to overcome.
Speaker 1 (19:06):
Yeah, I think one of the main ones, and this
is global, but certainly true in the US as well
because it's such a vast country, is that you know,
we'll round out this year with about forty retail locations
in North America, So that's including a couple in Canada
as well. You know, that's not exactly you know, carpet
(19:28):
bombing a vast country with lots of service locations, right, So,
I think people will travel to buy a car, but
they don't want to travel to service a car. So
I think that providing like a really solid after sales
capability for people, now, we're not going to probably manage,
given our size and given our age, we're probably not
(19:49):
going to manage to achieve that across the United States.
So what we really focus then on is really servicing
the people around the areas where there's critical mass of
people that have bought grenadiers. I think that's something that
we've got to really focus on, is giving people the
comfort that they're going to be able to get their
car serviced at minimal inconvenience.
Speaker 3 (20:07):
I realized after the fact that I left out Africa,
and I said, your dealership networks in the US and
Europe and Asia, but Africa must be like the spiritual
home of the Grenadier, right, because it's like an overlanding vehicle.
Speaker 4 (20:20):
It's perfect for safaris.
Speaker 3 (20:23):
What are you think the coolest use case scenarios that
you've heard of so far for your new car? I mean,
have you have you got a Safari operator that ordered
twenty Grenadier's or do you have people using them for
science experiment at the North Pole?
Speaker 4 (20:40):
Or is there something awesome that you've seen.
Speaker 1 (20:43):
Yeah, we have, We've seen a few in Africa. Is
a great place to talk about because you're right and
you're so spot on. Actually, it is the spiritual home
because I think although the idea was in the pub,
the Grenadier Pub, it was really boring out of doing
lots and lots of adventurous travel in Africa.
Speaker 5 (20:59):
You know, gym to go to places that are.
Speaker 1 (21:01):
Really untouched and really adventurous and you need the tool
to get you there and get you out again, particularly
in some you know, quite dangerous places with a lot
of the animals and things that are roaming around. Some
of the places he likes to spend time in Africa. Yeah,
I guess the most fun aspect of that is we
do actually have a Safari game viewer Grenadier, which is
(21:24):
quite exciting. So, you know, we we went and built
one with a modifier in Botswana to see what it
would look like, to see if Jim liked it. It
was his birthday at the time, and he liked it
so much we bought the modifier and we're now.
Speaker 5 (21:39):
Producing game viewers.
Speaker 1 (21:41):
So yeah, coming to a Safari camp near you.
Speaker 2 (21:46):
You mentioned importing earlier. I'm just curious, how are you
guys doing with the tariff situation? Are you seeing that
already impacting buyers in the US? You know, how are
you feeling about all that?
Speaker 1 (22:02):
Yeah, I mean it was it was definitely a blow because,
you know, we were just really gearing up. We were
just over one year selling in the US, you know,
biggest market, you know, aiming for significant growth this year,
you know, you know, forty percent growth this year, completely
achievable given that we're adding about fourteen sales points.
Speaker 5 (22:23):
You know, this is completely achievable.
Speaker 1 (22:26):
And it just kind of arrested us in our steps
for about five minutes of going you know, my god,
what do we do now? It's twenty five percent on
top of a two and a half percent tariff.
Speaker 5 (22:37):
You know, there's no doubt that that's not.
Speaker 1 (22:41):
Anything like what we expected to happen or wanted to happen.
We knew that we'd be tariff movement, but we expected
the Europeans because we're effectively because we manufacture in France,
were coming from Europe. We expected the Europeans to negotiate,
and they didn't, and all of a sudden, the worst
case scenario happened, not just on cars but on par.
Speaker 5 (23:01):
And for US as well.
Speaker 1 (23:02):
We have a Quartermaster pickup truck I'm not sure if
you've seen that yet, which is perfect for the US market,
and because it's a pickup truck and a light commercial vehicle,
it also attracts chicken tax, so actually.
Speaker 2 (23:15):
To import now the chicken tax is right, yeah, so
it's like fifty right, yes, in addition to.
Speaker 1 (23:24):
So fifty percent for this fantastic car that's really built
for the US market. And we just don't really understand
why europe is not motivated to negotiate away and inequity,
because you know, all the US government was saying was
there's an inequity you're paying two and a half percent
to get into my country. I'm paying ten percent to
get into yours. Do something about it. And that seems
(23:47):
like a really straightforward business negotiation to me. So very frustrating.
But are we seeing a massive impact. I mean, we
put our prices up by five percent, so twenty five
percent increase in cost, but we put our price up
by five percent, which means, you know, a mixture of
ourselves and our retailers are are kind of taking the
(24:07):
pain to kind of just try and keep demand up
for such a nascent, early brand that isn't really very
well known yet. And we want to just give buyers,
people who are sitting on the fence, the comfort to
say it's still a heck of a lot of car
for the money. It's a good price for the vehicle,
and we'll support the extra tariffs for now, you know,
(24:31):
until hopefully there's a negotiation, and if not, we'll continue
to support it. This is a sustainable plan which says,
you know, this is what you'll pay for a Grenadier now,
and you know at the end of the year as well.
Speaker 4 (24:43):
So you build the you build the I guess truck
is a word I want to use, is that a
fair word to use for the.
Speaker 5 (24:50):
Because it's a it's a great word.
Speaker 6 (24:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (24:52):
So you build the truck in France, right, didn't you
buy a factory in France? Tell us about that product facility,
why you chose it, and how it's working.
Speaker 1 (25:05):
Yes, So we bought a former Mercedes plant in France
about five years ago now actually, so we've had it
for quite some time, and it's really it's one of
the really kind of best parts of our story in
a way, and it's one of the luckier parts of
our story because I think if we'd had to build
a factory at the same time as building a car,
we might still be doing that rather than talking about
(25:27):
tariffs and things. So, yeah, it was one of the
best things that happened, really, And you know, Mercedes had
made a number of very large scale investments in that plant,
including in a new state of the art body shop,
paint shop, but it had kind of decided to rationalize
their production to lots of other places across the world
because of course they have many, many factories, and you know,
(25:48):
we got the opportunity to take it on and run
with it really with that investment already made. So it
was a no brainer and got us up and running
really quickly, and we are very, very grateful for that opportunity.
Speaker 2 (26:03):
I'm just curious, you know, do you ever get a
sense about whether Jim would would bring on additional investors
into the company. You know, is he giving you guidance
about how much he wants to continue investing versus bringing
others to lighten the load just on him.
Speaker 1 (26:20):
Yeah, it's a great question, Hannah, and a really insightful
one at a time when the industry is challenging right
on almost every metric. You know, we talked about missions earlier.
That's hadding loads of cost in Europe in particular where
we manufacture. So you know, it's it's a really tricky time.
But there's no doubt that, I mean, Jim's commitment to
the business is you know, unwavering.
Speaker 5 (26:45):
You know, he is the he's the kind of beginning
of all of this business.
Speaker 1 (26:51):
He seeded it. He you know, it's his, it's his idea.
And what we've done to kind of take that idea
and run with it and make it a global business
that is you know, pretty close after a very short
time to washing its face. There's no doubt that his
support is absolutely unwavering. But I'll also say I don't
(27:11):
think you ever say never in any situation, right because
what you need in automotive is scale, and we've got
ambitions way beyond what we're doing today, way beyond you know,
this is just the start for us. We've got, you know,
probably three or four other models in mind, you know,
the Fusilier being one that we're kind of quite far
through developing. But you know, I'd say that if it's
(27:35):
the right thing to do at the right time, we
would never say never.
Speaker 2 (27:39):
That brings up one more question I have for you,
and it's about what you're talking about, your ambitions. I
have to say I was so pleasantly surprised at the
price point of the field Master. You know, I we've
seen so many resto mods obviously this is not a
resto mood, but so many you know, off roading vehicles,
rest of mods that are six figures, and the field
(28:02):
Master that I drove was around eighty a little over eighty.
How important is it for you guys to stay around
that price point? Is that a big part of the
plan and the structure of the company, or will you
be expanding, going up, going down? What's that conversation, like, so.
Speaker 1 (28:21):
I think with the Grenadier, we think the price points right,
I said this earlier, like I do think it's a
lot of car for the money because I know how
much engineering is in this car and the component tree,
like it's the best of components, and there's the things
you can you know, see in touch, like you know
if you pop the hood and you see it's BMW engine,
but it's also you know, the control units like Bosh Continental,
(28:43):
you know, our carro seat, our Brembo breaks. You know,
these are all brand names that are the componentry that's
gone into the car. F transmission. I'd already called the
mat Matt thought.
Speaker 3 (28:54):
I know, but theresision world, you know, so I felt
like it was mentioned again.
Speaker 4 (29:00):
I wonder about the steering specifically.
Speaker 3 (29:02):
Can I ask about that, Linn, because while I haven't
driven it, I guess I'd love to hear Hannah's thoughts.
Speaker 4 (29:08):
I've watched a lot of.
Speaker 3 (29:10):
YouTube videos about the Grenadier because I am obsessed, kind
of obsessed with this vehicle and have been for a
few years. The one thing that everyone calls out is
that it's not your typical kind of self centering steering,
and that's because of the off road you know, pedigree
of the of the engineering.
Speaker 4 (29:29):
Would you ever change.
Speaker 3 (29:31):
That or is that you think, you know, like a
specific piece of the vehicle's character that you want.
Speaker 5 (29:39):
Yeah, I think.
Speaker 1 (29:40):
For the Grenadier in particular, and I completely understand the point.
I obviously drive one. I read your review, Hannah, so
I kind of know what your thoughts were, and you,
you know, really really well described it as well as
to why it is the way it is, and when
you do a lot of off roading, you really feel why,
because that's stability. When you're doing some pretty difficult off roading,
(30:03):
you know, you feel like immediately you know why it
is the way it is. But on the road that
can feel you know, a bit jarring, particularly I would
say in a world where modern cars aren't like that,
whereas if you go back ten fifteen years, you know,
it was very normal to drive cars that felt like that.
So I get in a Grenadier on the road and
(30:25):
you know, within five minutes it wasn't really bothering me
at all because I kind of remembered what it was
like to drive.
Speaker 5 (30:31):
Older, slightly older cars.
Speaker 1 (30:33):
And I kind of love it as well, because you know,
talk about it sort of putting the drive back into driving.
Speaker 5 (30:38):
You know, I don't need to kind of have a.
Speaker 1 (30:41):
Yeah, I don't need to have a fingertip, you know,
on the steering wheel. I kind of like feeling the
robustness of the vehicles, so it doesn't bother me at all.
But to answer your question, I think, you know, there
are probably optimizations will make to the Grendier because we're
listening all the time and we want to make sure
that we make it the best vehicle it can be.
And the way that you'd best do that is listen
(31:03):
to your customers. And I think that there are optimizations,
but there will be that there will be tweaks. They
won't be we're not going to change the steering system.
But then when we were, you know, starting the development
of the Fusilier, which doesn't need to be our most
most off road capab capable vehicle because we have that
in the Grenadier. That will be a rack and pinion system,
(31:24):
because that will be a much more of an urban
vehicle that you can take off road rather than an
off road vehicle that you can take into the city,
which I think is kind of what the Grenadier is.
Speaker 4 (31:34):
I can't wait to drive this vehicle, christ I want
to drive it.
Speaker 1 (31:37):
Oh, I'll get you in one, mate.
Speaker 2 (31:40):
Like, yes, the steering is noticeable, but it's not a problem.
It's just different. And I totally agree that. You know,
you get used to it really quickly, and if you
want something that is going to go canyon carving, you
just get a different vehicle. You know this, this is
not that it's we talk all the time about the
(32:01):
right tool for the job, and you know, to me,
at least, I like how it has a personality that
you know, it's it's alive. I really like that. I'm
Matt and I talk all the time about how we're
so tired of driving appliances around.
Speaker 3 (32:16):
So yeah, I feel like it must be a defining
characteristic because that's what people used to say about the
old g Wagon and now that they've made it obviously
a road driving car, and.
Speaker 4 (32:28):
The same is true of the Bronco. It's more for Starbucks,
you know.
Speaker 3 (32:33):
I mean, I'm sure you can take it off road
as well, but the idea is they had to make
it drivable for soccer moms too.
Speaker 1 (32:40):
I hope that's not too yeah, And I mean I'd
say that a lot of our clientele is is that
you know, we're you kind of joke to the beginning
of that about seeing lots, you.
Speaker 5 (32:49):
Know, riding around Beverly Hills.
Speaker 1 (32:51):
You know that that is the market as well, because
it's also just something different, right, It's a cool looking car,
it's different, stands out and people enjoy its character. Yeah,
I guess because it's got quite a lot of character
inside as well. We talk a lot about this vehicle,
but the interior has got quite a lot of character.
It's quite you know, different, designed by us to kind
(33:15):
of really feel like you're in a different environment, and
that's got a lot of a lure as well as
just the off characteristic.
Speaker 3 (33:22):
I have a neighbor in Scarsdale, New York who has one,
and I stopped to talk to him about it. He said,
everybody stops to talk to him about it, and obviously
we wouldn't if he just had a jeep. So you know,
that's definitely a huge bonus having something that other people
don't necessarily have.
Speaker 4 (33:38):
Having said that, I'm sure you want to sell more.
Speaker 3 (33:42):
How many are you expecting to sell this year or
do you have a target for now or five years
from now?
Speaker 4 (33:49):
What are you thinking in terms of volume.
Speaker 1 (33:52):
Yeah, so I'm thinking, I mean, we are aiming for
I think our target this year is eleven thousand, which
again you know when we did about eight last year.
Speaker 2 (34:03):
From the standing star is global sales or North America.
Speaker 5 (34:06):
No North America, so you.
Speaker 4 (34:10):
Know where your GLO global sales.
Speaker 1 (34:13):
So we've got we've got twenty five thousand grenadiers on
the road globally at the moment, and you know, seeking
to grow quite quickly now because we've got quite a
lot of global coverage now, right. So for the first
year we were just kind of sort of eking into
and getting started up into kind of i'd say early
markets like the UK and Germany and Australia, whereas you
(34:37):
know now we're kind of really expanding. The US has
been a huge part of that. So yeah, the growth
last year from the US alone was was really really
substantial for us, and I think that you know, as
we went into this year, it was all then about
continued growth, so adding quite a lot of sales points,
(34:58):
adding quite a lot of you know, filling in some
of the white gaps big you know, metropolis white gaps
on the map that is going to really help us grow.
And then you know, The final aspect of that, of course,
is just awareness. I think almost nobody has heard of us.
We've still got such a big job to do to
tell our kind of really quite unique backstory. And you
(35:21):
get people into the driving seat of this car because
it is I don't think there's anything like it on
the market, which means you get in and as you say, Hannah,
you know, for lots of people just say this, this
won't suit my life. We don't need to sell you know,
a million of them a year. That's that's not a problem.
Speaker 2 (35:40):
But for the.
Speaker 1 (35:40):
People that really get it and they get in the
driver's seat, they just kind of it kind of brings
out your inner child or something. You know, You've got
this kind of this this this toy that you're playing
with that's got lots of fun capability and fun things
you can do with it. And I kind of think
it brings us all back to being like a kid again.
(36:01):
And I think for us to grow, just getting more
people to experience that.
Speaker 3 (36:05):
People will know now now that you're on the Hot
Pursuit podcast, you know, we have dozens of listeners. So
but also Hannah wrote about it in Hot Pursuit and
I asked my buddy Tim. He asked me what the
podcast was on today and I said the Iner and
he said, oh, they sponsor a Tour de Frost team.
Speaker 4 (36:25):
So what do you what do you do to get
the message out?
Speaker 3 (36:30):
Are you plopping down a bunch of are you plopping
down thousands of pounds on advertising? Or is it are
you sponsoring extreme sports teams or does Jim put it
on the side of a hot air balloon or what
do you do?
Speaker 5 (36:46):
That's a great question like that.
Speaker 1 (36:49):
Yeah, I'll note down some of your ideas there.
Speaker 5 (36:52):
Sounds great.
Speaker 1 (36:54):
I mean, we're not going to go down the route
of in sort typical in your style. We're not going
to go down the route of us suppose stand under
oem of just spend you know, tens of millions, hundreds
of millions of dollars on advertising because we won't cut through.
You know, I think we've got to do it differently.
We've got to kind of find a way to punch
above our weight and we'll never make any money.
Speaker 5 (37:17):
And we're here to do that, right.
Speaker 1 (37:19):
This is not just about a nice story and a
great car. We're here to make a commercial.
Speaker 5 (37:25):
Success of this.
Speaker 1 (37:26):
So our ideas are much more about how do we
punch above our weight, right, So that's about our tone
of voice. It's about getting out there telling the story,
being a little bit punchy sometimes.
Speaker 5 (37:38):
You know.
Speaker 1 (37:39):
We recently did an ad campaign with Defender right where
we kind of sort of really take on head on
the fact that there's been legal disputes and really kind
of really sought through that campaign also though, to highlight
the differences between our two vehicles, the ones that are
on the road today, not that we're on the road
twenty years ago. So trying to be have a bit
(37:59):
of fun with it maybe is the answer to that question.
Speaker 2 (38:03):
Lynn. I think you went to school in Aberdeen, right, Scotland?
Speaker 5 (38:07):
I did.
Speaker 2 (38:08):
Yes, Did you grow up up in Aberdeen as well
or close by?
Speaker 5 (38:15):
So?
Speaker 1 (38:15):
I was born near Edinburgh, in the county next to Edinburgh,
moved to Aberdeenshire when I was ten, to this tiny,
tiny little town of you know, four thousand people, and
I grew up there until I went to school. So yeah,
great memories of both places.
Speaker 5 (38:36):
Love Scotland.
Speaker 1 (38:37):
Still get home as often as I can, but yeah,
it's been a long time since I've lived there.
Speaker 2 (38:41):
I don't miss the weather, well, I bet you know.
The reason I ask is because I'm actually in Las
Vegas right now with my niece who lives in She's Scottish,
she lives in Aberdeen, and you know, it's an oil
town in a way. I mean, the oil industry is
huge there, of course. You know, I'm just curious if
you have any words of wisdom for kids, teenagers who
(39:06):
are from Aberdeen that you know, maybe making their way
out into the world. Any any words of wisdom.
Speaker 1 (39:14):
Oh, I love that, Hannah, Absolutely love that question, and
I love that you're You're with your your Scottish niece
from Aberdeen.
Speaker 5 (39:19):
That's incredible, you.
Speaker 1 (39:21):
Know, it's kind of it's yeah, it's a pretty small
part of Scotland, but you're right, it's actually got such
a rich industrial past and I think that that you know,
certainly used to give massive opportunity to get into an
industry that too q around the world, which is exactly
what I did. And I think that's probably slightly changed
days today because you know, fossil fuels are are are
(39:44):
more difficult proposition from an industry perspective, and our government
at the woman doesn't particularly want them anymore. So Aberdeen
is is definitely not the place that it was. But
I think that your your your niece has got the
world at her feet and it is her oyster whatever
she wants to do. And I think we live in
a world today where the opportunities are endless in a way,
(40:07):
and if I can, you know, get out of Aberdeen
and come and run a car company, then there's hope
for everyone.
Speaker 2 (40:14):
Well I love that.
Speaker 4 (40:15):
Yeah, I mean you've done very well.
Speaker 3 (40:16):
So I think maybe maybe Hannah you can connect them
and they can and she can get some advice from Lynn. Hey,
I wanted just to finally ask about the pub. I
feel like the vehicle maybe has made the pub even
more famous. There's only room for like four or five
people in that pub. I've been to it a few
(40:38):
times off the groven Or Crescent there in bell Gravia.
Have you been in there? I mean, it's such a
cool little pub and it's so fun that it inspired
the name of this rugged you know, globally sold off
road vehicle.
Speaker 1 (40:54):
Yeah, and it's actually added to the story more than
ever night because two years ago we bought the pub.
Speaker 4 (40:59):
Matt, I did not know that.
Speaker 1 (41:02):
Yeah, such an integral part of the story, right, you know,
it's it's it's really you know, it's kind of it's
folklore for us now because it's it really is the
start of something that's become very big and impactful and
important in our lives. So, yeah, I'm in the the
Grenadier reasonably often. Tony the landlord is wonderful, will have
(41:24):
his chat to you, and you know, poor you a
really decent pint. So it's a fabulous little pub. But yeah,
we we kind of decided that it's it's part of
our story and we should make sure that it stays
the way it is.
Speaker 2 (41:37):
Do you have gym in the pub these days?
Speaker 1 (41:42):
I mean, Jim is a very busy man, as you
can imagine, Hannah, and I think when he's in London
he loves to to grab a drink in the Grandeer.
But yeah, he's he's pretty busy. I couldn't possibly know
how often he's in the Granadier.
Speaker 3 (41:55):
But do you have Grenadier owners from all over Europe
like making pilgrimage to the pub?
Speaker 4 (42:01):
Do you see the other vehicles pulled up outside there?
Speaker 6 (42:05):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (42:06):
And quite often as well, you know if you know,
because the whole team spends time in there as well, right,
and you know, we're all like very good at running
around with branded kit on that's got and you. Quite
a lot of our customers do as well. So I've
had people come up to me in the pub that
have kind of sort of, you know, either recognized me
or recognized because I've been waiting in any sort of
(42:27):
motive piece of kit and they've come over to say hello,
and who are you because I'm a Grandier owner. So yeah,
I think it has become a bit of a pilgrimage
and that's a lovely part of the story. So cool.
Speaker 2 (42:40):
I love that. Thank you for taking the timeline. It's
really great to talk with you. We hope you come
back and talk to us more.
Speaker 1 (42:47):
Yes, I really appreciate the opportunity as well. Guys love
the fact that you have been driving the car, Hannah,
and we must get you in one.
Speaker 4 (42:54):
Matt, I'm looking forward to it.
Speaker 3 (42:55):
I know I know a guy who has one, so
I'm gonna hopefully get a chance soon. By the way,
if you ever get into New York or next time
you're in New York, I'd love to have you on
my television show.
Speaker 1 (43:08):
Well, look, that would be fab I'm in New York
fairly recently, but I'll tell you what I'll do, Mat,
I'll turn up with a lone grenadier for you so
that you can get one.
Speaker 5 (43:15):
You don't need to borrow one from your mate.
Speaker 6 (43:17):
Thanks so much, big fan.
Speaker 2 (43:27):
Love that she's from Scotland because, like I said, I've
literally been around a young Scottish lass for the past
week and they're just delightful.
Speaker 4 (43:37):
I also feel like it's a perfect place for this vehicle.
Speaker 3 (43:39):
I mean, I know I said Africa is a spiritual home,
but think about like skyfall, right, I know this is
a truck that needs to be driven across the highlands.
Speaker 2 (43:50):
Scottish Highland's wearing a kilt, yes, and like eating magis
and playing bag pipes all at the same time, I.
Speaker 4 (43:57):
Should wear a kilt. More off, does Magnus ever wear
a kilt?
Speaker 2 (44:00):
Well, no, he's not Scottish. You know, there's quite a
I've been getting a real download on the history of
Scotland in England and no he does not wear a kilt.
But apparently a lot of the young kids do in Scotland,
like for school dances and for formals. Even like the
young the young boys, like teenage boys, will wear a kilt.
Speaker 3 (44:21):
Yeah, I would wear a kilt on a regular basis
if I were Scottish.
Speaker 4 (44:25):
Yeah, I feel like if you're not Scottish, it's tough
to pull it off.
Speaker 2 (44:30):
Correct.
Speaker 4 (44:30):
Just a casual kilt.
Speaker 2 (44:33):
Yeah, a casual kilt. That's a hard hard line to walk.
Speaker 4 (44:36):
But yeah, So you're in Vegas with Magnus.
Speaker 2 (44:41):
With Magnus and my mother in law and my niece.
We just took a little mini vacation here. My niece
has never been, so she's visiting. And also, did I
tell you that we just bought a new Rolls Royce. Yeah, cheap, Yes,
that's the excite. It's a it's a silver Spur seventy
(45:02):
two two tone blackened sort of a claret. They call
it regal red, but it's more of a burgundy claret color.
Speaker 4 (45:08):
So how many Rolls Royce is do you do you
guys own?
Speaker 1 (45:12):
Now?
Speaker 2 (45:12):
This is number four? There Again, I have to say
they are really they're very, very inexpensive vehicles. But this
is a fun one. And so far, I mean, each
of the three previous has broken down on the first drive.
This one has did not break down on the first drive.
So we're already ahead. Yes, you know, it's only up
(45:34):
from here, only down from here.
Speaker 6 (45:36):
Really.
Speaker 3 (45:36):
I was going to say they may be inexpensive to buy,
but I imagine that the maintenance can get pretty pricey.
Speaker 2 (45:43):
It depends, it depends. This Actually, this one was a
two owner car. The people who we bought it from
had owned it for twenty seven years, so it has
been cared for, not driven a lot. So it needs
a real shakedown and sort of a run through by
our mechanic, but cared for. So that's that's nice and appearent.
(46:06):
It appears to be full, full, full original. We haven't
seen any sort of painting touch ups or weird things
like that, so I'll keep you posted on that.
Speaker 3 (46:17):
Your white whale seems to be the Rolls Royce Camarg. Right,
you've been after that and you still didn't on number four,
you still haven't gotten one.
Speaker 2 (46:25):
No, the problem with the camarg is they tend to
be more expensive. That's the that's the difference. They're a
lot rarer than the Silver Shadow is actually the most
the most produced Rolls Royce up from the era. They
made over thirty thousand of them, so they are rather common.
The Camarg is a lot rarer, and I don't I
(46:47):
don't want to quote a number a bit but they're
quite a bit rare, so yeah, more expensive, and so
it's just harder to like pull the trigger on something
that's a lot more money. You know, Yes, well you're
getting so if you're getting something soon, right.
Speaker 4 (47:01):
That's right.
Speaker 3 (47:02):
My wife went out of town for a couple of weeks,
so I bought a Harley Davidson Fat Boss. As you do, yes,
so I'm gonna go down. I bought it in Fredericksburg, Virginia.
They don't make the Fat Bob anymore. They stopped making
it in twenty twenty three, which is one of the
reasons that I wanted to get it sooner than later,
(47:23):
so I could find a nice low mileage but not
too low mileage, example, a one owner bike. It's already
had the air filter, the exhaust and the tune. I'm
not sure if it has a cam yet, but I
want to put in my own cam, so I don't
really care about it.
Speaker 4 (47:41):
It is a twenty twenty three.
Speaker 3 (47:43):
It's a twenty three right bike, so anyway, But the
thing is, I have to be at a graduation. My
nephew's graduating from Dickinson on Saturday and Sunday, so I'm
gonna fly out of here like right away and land
in DC around three o'clock, and then.
Speaker 4 (48:04):
I guess I'll get there by four or five.
Speaker 3 (48:07):
And then i'll drive straight back and hopefully get back
around midnight New York through the night. But it's not
so bad like that, that in itself isn't a problem.
Speaker 4 (48:18):
It's supposed to.
Speaker 3 (48:19):
I'm supposed to run through thunderstorms a lot of the way,
but I have a rain suit, so you know.
Speaker 4 (48:27):
Nonetheless, I'm pretty excited.
Speaker 2 (48:29):
That's really cool. That'll be a fun adventure.
Speaker 4 (48:32):
Absolutely.
Speaker 3 (48:34):
I also spent the week driving a Subaru Forester, which
I didn't think was going to be terribly exciting, and
guess what, it wasn't terribly exciting.
Speaker 2 (48:45):
However, I didn't get any excited text from you about
the forest.
Speaker 3 (48:49):
No, there was nothing exciting about it. But I will
say that the vehicle is sturdy. The Boxer motor is
not strong, but it's not annoying. And the price is low.
So I had like the most kitted out, absolute top
of the line version with every option, and it was
(49:12):
still only forty three grand, which in today's world is
really good for a full sized station wagon. So I
went to the beach with it last weekend with my
mom and my and my two daughters and a dog
and all of our stuff.
Speaker 4 (49:28):
Everything fit.
Speaker 3 (49:30):
And then my mom, who's not bought a car that
isn't Evolvo since the nineteen seventies, has decided she's going
to pick one up herself.
Speaker 4 (49:39):
Oh so they made a sale.
Speaker 2 (49:41):
Yeah, I mean, I've too bad. You can't take a
commission on that, because you did the work.
Speaker 3 (49:46):
It would be a very small commission, you know. I mean,
I think it's pretty cool that they're still making that.
Some companies are still making relatively affordable vehicles, like I
had I interviewed the CEO of Slate on my television show,
which is the new Amazon backed electric pickup truck maker.
(50:09):
They're gonna sell those for like twenty five grand I think,
out of the box, and then you can make it
into a five seater or a fastback or whatever you want.
But you know, there's the Ford has the Maverick, Like
there are still some inexpensive vehicles, and I think that's
really important. Otherwise you don't get kids into the market.
(50:30):
You don't get kids into the hobby.
Speaker 2 (50:32):
Are we having the see of Slate?
Speaker 4 (50:34):
Come on, she's gonna join us.
Speaker 2 (50:36):
Yes, right, cool, cool cool, And I love that mentality.
I mean, I don't think things have to be expensive
to be special. I never have. Those two things are
two separate indicators.
Speaker 3 (50:49):
No, I always you know, and I always think people
can buy used and should buy used stuff. And when
I talk to Harley about you know, the starter, Harley,
everyone come playing is that they don't have a bike
that's you know, seven thousand or six thousand dollars, and
they always say, we have a starter, Harley.
Speaker 4 (51:07):
It's called the used sportster.
Speaker 3 (51:09):
And that's the one that kids, you know, people nevitally,
that's their first if they're yeah, if they get into
it young, that's their first purchase. And not only is
it good because they haven't wasted money if they don't
like it or wasted too much money, and they're not
buying too much bike for themselves. You know, it's it's
got I don't know, sixty horse power, but I think
it's it's really important that you have this low cost
(51:33):
entry point for anything for people to get into it.
And that's true of cars as well, even though they're
of course an appliance and utility.
Speaker 2 (51:41):
For most people completely. And I also think it's a
nice reference point for somewhere to go. You know, it's
better to it's better to aspire to other things. You know,
if you're coming in at a low price point, it
makes you appreciate and understand the value of the thing,
(52:02):
and then from there you can go elsewhere if you want.
Speaker 3 (52:04):
But yeah, what have you got coming up? What are
you driving home? By the way, how did you get
to Vegas?
Speaker 2 (52:11):
Oh? Great question, I will be driving home. And did
drive the twenty twenty five EQS four fifty sedan, and
this was a bit of a you know, I was
a little bit worried that wasn't going to make it
from Vegas. It's electric, they said that. The range when
I got the car, the range said five hundred and
(52:31):
fourteen miles, which of course I don't believe. But actually
it made it. It made it with over one hundred
and ten miles to go left on the charge, so
I was very happy. I'll be driving that back the
hotel where I'm staying at, the Wind, which is a
really great hotel. It's not Vegas, it's the Wind is
the is the tagline, which I kind of like. But
(52:51):
they've been really helpful charging it overnight and yeh, so
I'll be driving that back very comfortable ac works, which
is very important.
Speaker 3 (52:59):
Did you see the message we got from down about his.
Speaker 4 (53:03):
Trip, Yes?
Speaker 2 (53:04):
I did.
Speaker 3 (53:05):
Where was he was like going to Bozemon right in
a tesla or somewhere like that, and he stated he
want to do well, Yeah, he said I should. He well,
he said, I should drive the g Wagon to Ohio
to see what it's like to go on a longer
trip with an electric vehicle. And frankly, I've I've I've
already had that experience in Germany. I drove the Audi
(53:28):
e Tron from Berlin to Frankfurt and it took eight hours,
a trip that takes me like four and a half
in a nine to eleven. But he said he drove
to somewhere in Montana and then the hotel didn't have
any way to charge the car except for running an
extension cord out of his room like the regular one
hundred and ten volt outlet, and so they couldn't go
(53:50):
to Yellowstone because they didn't have enough electricity.
Speaker 2 (53:53):
That a huge bummer, and huge bummer, and I had
that that unknown factor of even if we make it
to our destination, what will the charging options. Be at
the destination does create quite a lot of anxiety. So
you know, the only plug I can say is stay
at the wind. The chargers work. It's totally flawless, no
(54:15):
issue you signed. You do have to sign a release
for him that lets the the guys charge it for you.
I haven't got the bill yet, so I don't know
how much the charging will have cost. But yeah, that
would be the hugest bummer ever.
Speaker 4 (54:30):
Missing on a Yellowstone because of your Tesla. I have
to think that's changed even into Montana.
Speaker 2 (54:36):
Let's hope.
Speaker 4 (54:37):
I have to like it's changing. Yeah, yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 6 (54:42):
All right.
Speaker 4 (54:42):
Anyway, Well, I hope you have a great trip home.
That's a very luxurious chariot, so enjoy that.
Speaker 3 (54:49):
I'm about to go turn in this Subaru for a
Chevy Blazer EV. So I'm going to get back on
the TV. Yeah, I really am on the EV train.
I got a lot coming up of electric vehicles.
Speaker 2 (55:03):
No one can say that you don't drive evs.
Speaker 1 (55:06):
You've been.
Speaker 3 (55:08):
I'm finding them quite enjoyable for the most part. It's
just those practical concerns that may hold me back. But
I've seen in the case of a Mercedes G five eighty.
Nothing would hold me back beyond the price tag.
Speaker 4 (55:26):
All Right, I'm Matt Miller
Speaker 2 (55:28):
I'm Hannah Elliott, and this is Bloomberg.
Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
I'm Matt Miller and I'm Hannah Elliott, and this is
Hot Pursuit.
Speaker 3 (00:24):
All right, we have a fantastic guest for you today.
She runs the company that makes a vehicle that we
talk about I think a fair amount.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Lynn called her the CEO of Ineos, and we've been
talking about Ineos because I had one a few weeks
ago and really enjoyed it. Thought it was great, thought
it was interesting, fascinating, a great value for money. And
Lynn's awesome. I was really happy to meet her and
talk to her. She needs to be a regular.
Speaker 3 (00:52):
Yeah, She's really cool and it was a great conversation.
The vehicle, obviously, is one that for cars people. I
think everyone knows about it because everyone loved the Old Defender,
and when Landrover stopped making the Old Defender, it was
pretty disappointing to the world of automotive enthusiasts, right.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
You could say that, yeah, and it seemed like why
would they They destroyed something that everyone wants, which is
a long heritage, you know, wrought over time on this
iconic shape that everyone recognizes.
Speaker 3 (01:29):
Yes, and fortunately it wasn't just you know, penniless internet
auto growth fanboys.
Speaker 4 (01:38):
Yeah exactly.
Speaker 3 (01:40):
It was also a billionaire at a pub and one
of the most expensive places on the planet, Belgravia.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
That's kind of what it takes, isn't it like it
does take a billionaire.
Speaker 3 (01:51):
Let's let's get straight to the interview, and then afterwards
we have a couple of things to cover.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
Such great timing because I just drove the field Master
and it was my first experience with your product after
hearing about it for years and seeing them driving around,
especially Beverly Hills, but all over LA and I have
to say I was really pleasantly surprised. So of course
(02:18):
Matt has been talking about us as well, So it's
really nice to have you. What I'm trying to say
is it's really nice to have you here with us, Lynn,
and the product is really fascinating to me, and I
had such a nice time testing it. And this is
not a question, really, I guess it's just more of
an intro. Maybe Matt jumps in my question, but that
(02:41):
kind of explains why we're so eager to talk to you,
because to me, this is a fascinating company and a
fascinating story, and I'm just also fascinated to hear about
your life and your background, and maybe this is the
question you come from more of a like a petrochemical background,
right am I am? I get that right? Can you
just sort of walk us through, like how did you
(03:03):
end up leading this really amazing interesting company.
Speaker 1 (03:08):
Yeah, it is a great place to start, and thanks
so much to you both for having me on. And
it's always great to talk about the Grenadier. But yeah,
let's spend a minute on me. I mean twenty years
in energy, actually a few years in petrochemicals, which is
all kind of linked. You just move a little bit
down the chain. Joined Anni Els nine years ago from
(03:30):
private equity, and yeah, three years ago, got the kind
of question which is can you go and help out
a little bit and Automotive because it's been a project, right,
it's been about developing and building a car. It's not
been about a business. But now it needs to be
about a business. We're ready to produce it, we're ready
to take it to the market globally, and can you
(03:51):
go in and take a look and see what we
need to do and help us out a little bit?
And yeah, two months later it was like, yeah, you
just need to give up whatever you were doing before,
which was running a chemicals business, and just do this
full time because you know, we need to get this
up and running.
Speaker 5 (04:07):
So yeah, what a gig.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
I feel like I'm the luckiest person in the world
to get such a bizarre, random and wonderful opportunity.
Speaker 2 (04:16):
Moving into an automotive space when you have not worked
in that space, to me is actually I would consider
that an asset. I'm curious how you dealt with that,
because the automotive world can also be rather insular and
really sort of tightly closed off if they don't think
(04:36):
you have the quote right credentials whatever that even means
to be working in cars. Did you face any of that?
And I think it's a huge asset to come from
an outside sector. Did you find that as well?
Speaker 5 (04:51):
I think it is an asset.
Speaker 1 (04:52):
I think moving any sector I mean energy to chemicals,
as I say, is not such a big step, but
it's still a move. It's still people using acronyms that
you haven't heard before. Way, I think it is absolutely
an asset. Is that you ask all the dumb questions, right,
and a lot of the answers to the dumb questions,
are you dumb ass, this is the answer, and they're right.
(05:14):
But a lot of the questions are, well, this is
our The answers are, it's just why we've always done
it this way, this is how we do it around here.
And actually, when you really scratch below the surface again
and again and again, and you keep asking and people
have to really delve into why, then you quite often get, oh,
actually we can do this differently. And because I might
be new to the sector, but of course Ineos is
(05:36):
as well, and we've kind of got freedom therefore to
not reinvent the wheel when we don't need to, and
learn from the best, but also say, heck, we don't
need to do it like that. We can do it
our way. We can go a more agile way, or
we can go a more you know out there. Let's
just sort of rip up the rule book, which we
kind of like doing. Let's face it and do our
(06:00):
and so it's kind of you know, I'm just really
fortunate to work for a company like this. I don't
think I'll be joining you know, any other large OEM
anytime soon, but for Anios it works.
Speaker 3 (06:09):
So I want to just introduce the vehicle because not
everybody knows not everybody's hanging out in Beverly Hills all
the time, right. This was Jim Ratcliffe is a British
I think British billionaire, right, who owns Eneos, which is,
you know, a chemicals company.
Speaker 4 (06:30):
Right.
Speaker 3 (06:31):
And when land Rover stopped making the Defender, which was
almost ten years ago, now, I guess he had this
idea at the Grenadier, which is an amazing little pub
in Belgravia, to make his own version. I guess he
had approached land Rover and said, like, can I have
(06:52):
the plans or the copyright or whatever trademark and they
said forget it. So he made his own version. And
I think it's so cool. I think we've all dreamt
about like making our own vehicle, you know, but we
don't have the means and this guy does.
Speaker 4 (07:08):
So he just did it.
Speaker 3 (07:09):
And how long did it take from you know, from
that pint at the Grenadier to the first one rolling
off the line? Like how long has this project been underway?
Speaker 1 (07:23):
So from start standing start and it was an absolute
standing start to the first production vehicle off the line
of quite a large state of the art factory in
France was five years and we're now eight years or
seven and a half years in really and you know,
two and a half years worth of selling now fifty countries.
So you know, it's a great intro map. But it's
(07:45):
not just having the means, it's having the kind of
the kuhunas to do it right. It's the you know,
really it's such a bold thing to do, and it's
bold because it's it's really there's a reason why people
don't start automotive company generally.
Speaker 3 (08:01):
Yeah, for sure hard And also he had to I
guess there must have been some legal action, right, because
it doesn't look exactly like a defender, but.
Speaker 4 (08:11):
To most people it does.
Speaker 3 (08:14):
I mean, it's the same shape, it's the same idea,
it has the same kind of to some extent, off
road manners. Right, So how did how did he how
did you pull that off?
Speaker 1 (08:27):
Well, look, I think there's we don't shy away from
the fact there was an inspiration here. You know, the
whole idea, as you said at the beginning, Matt, was
you know there's a gap in the market now because
they've left, and you know, the original conversation was with them.
We didn't then set out to just sort of go
and build our version of it. I mean four by
four is a boxy shape so that you can put
you know, really each corner and have maximum visibility. So
(08:50):
you know, a de Wagon looks kind of similar, and
a Landover, an old Landover Defender, looks quite similar because
these are hardcore, original four by fours to do the job.
And I think that, you know, the idea was then
to fill that gap that we believe exists because everyone
else has left the space to go more kind of
crossover into like a lifestyle brand, which is working really
(09:12):
well for them, by the way, I think. So I
think that you know, the car is actually quite different.
I think the sentiment, the feel of the car is
quite different. Of course, it's a modern, refined version as well,
so it's got a lot of modern comforts compared to
some of the older four by fours. That said, we
did find ourselves embroiled and a legal battle or two,
(09:34):
and we navigated those by winning them.
Speaker 3 (09:36):
So I heard that slight dig at the G class
at the G Wagon. We love that vehicle, But what
do you think it is that sets apart the Grenadier
from you know, a G Wagon or even a jeep
Wrangler or a Bronco Like what makes this the ultimate
(09:57):
off road or ultimate.
Speaker 4 (10:01):
Kind of four by four vehicle.
Speaker 1 (10:03):
I think the g Wagon's a great vehicle, by the way,
it absolutely wasn't a dig and I think that it's
just a recognition that where the market has gone for
those kind of vehicles that were at their core, at
their origin, a kind of extreme four by four, the
market is taking them in a direction which is most
people are not taking them off road, right, So the
(10:24):
idea was to go back to first principles. So you know,
it's it's the ladder frame, it's the you know, the
the diff locks, it's the ground clearance, it's the wheel articulation,
it's all of the things that the approach and the
departure angles. It's the extreme thought that's gone into every
aspect of what this car should be capable of doing.
(10:46):
And in my opinion, an ar chief engineer really gets
annoyed with me when I say this, but you know,
it's way over engineered for anything that anyone's actually going
to do with it.
Speaker 4 (10:56):
So that's lacking, i think from the market in general,
no matter what kind of car you're looking.
Speaker 1 (11:01):
For, Yeah, it's blatantly over engineered, which you know makes
the commercial job a little more difficult, but you know,
he corrects me every time and says it's overspect and
not over engineered. So look, I mean, I don't think
you know, I think there are other very capable bull
cars in the market, and there's literally no doubt that,
you know, all of the vehicles were mentioning right now,
(11:22):
whether it's g Wagon, Land or are all extremely capable
of roaders. It's just that we've kind of filled a space,
which is this is what the car is for, this
is the purpose, and therefore everything starts with that.
Speaker 2 (11:36):
I remember when I was driving the field Master and
doing the review, I talked to a lot of my
friends who are really big off roaders, and there are
two questions for me that I actually spoke with Gregor about,
but I'd love to hear your part two is are
would they ever put a manual in? And would they
ever do a diesel engine? And that, you know, speaking
(11:58):
about what your customers want and respecting the vehicles. You know,
Matt and I talk about this all the time. We
talk about how everyone says they want a manual, but
the takewoad is always really low. What's the conversation for
you guys at ineos about doing a manual doing a
diesel engine, and on top of that, you know, are
you feeling pressure around emissions regulations to try to comply.
(12:23):
What is that whole conversation like for you guys?
Speaker 1 (12:27):
Yeah, okay, So let's I was going to start with
the easy one, which is powertrain first, but given the
admissions question, I'll come back to it.
Speaker 5 (12:33):
So manual, I mean, sure.
Speaker 1 (12:35):
It's it's an automatic automatic transmission, you know, eight speed ZF.
It's excellent with the BMW engine that we've put in
the car. And you know, most people, despite everything I've
just said about the purpose of the vehicle, are driving
it more on road than off and therefore, you know,
the manual the automatic transmission works really well. You can
(12:56):
you can sort of nudge it into manual. And actually
where I use the in manual mode is normally on
like really steep descents, because we have an automatic descent
control mode, which I you don't feel the need to
use if I can just flick it into first gear.
So you know, there's the opportunity to do that when
you're off roading. It's not quite as neat as having
(13:18):
paddles on the steering wheel, but it kind of works
for me, and that's how I would use it. So
as a result of that, we're not planning to kind
of build like a pure manual car. I think it's
got enough optionality in it. We do have a diesel engine,
it's just not available in the US.
Speaker 2 (13:34):
Oh okay, well.
Speaker 1 (13:37):
Yeah, And actually, I mean that's just because you know
that aren't really there isn't that much call for diesel
vehicles in the US.
Speaker 5 (13:44):
They'll be you know, a cohort of extremely.
Speaker 1 (13:48):
You know, dedicated off roaders that would love a diesel
and you know, can probably import one because we have them. Weirdly,
you know, our market has been come we skewed now
if you look at our diesel versus gas engines, because
before we launched in the US, we were probably about
seventy percent diesel, but with the US coming onto the books,
(14:13):
we're probably about fifty to fifty now diesel and gas worldwide.
And then emissions, I mean, gosh, it's such a topic,
much much more so in Europe than I think it
is in the US. And not only are we under
pressure to kind of bring new power trains to market
that are not really that well equipped for a really
(14:35):
serious off roader because you know, an electric Randidier is
just not going to work. The Grandeur's two point seven tons, like,
it's not gonna We're not going to fit a battery
in this car, and for it, you know, for it
to be used off road, it's not going to work.
Speaker 2 (14:48):
You had toyter round and then decided, you know, it's
we're going to pivot.
Speaker 3 (14:52):
Which I'm here to tell you that the electric g
Wagon works.
Speaker 4 (14:56):
I just had one for a week and it was
pretty amazing.
Speaker 3 (14:59):
In fact, I used to have a gas g Wagon
and I think electric works even better for that platform.
Speaker 5 (15:07):
So no, and it's it's really cool.
Speaker 1 (15:09):
It's just that we would have to change our platformat
because you know, the way that we've kind of engineered
the car, the ladder frame, the weight of it, you
can't then put a battery in it. So the g
Wagon is on a completely different platform, and that's what
we would have to do as well. So what we
actually launched instead of an electric Grenadier was a new
model called the Fuselier, which is on a skateboard platform
rather than a ladder frame. So the entire you know,
(15:32):
the entire frame of the car is light enough to
withstand a pretty serious battery to allow you to be
able to do pretty serious off roading.
Speaker 5 (15:41):
So that's the solution.
Speaker 1 (15:42):
It's just that we can't really reverse engineer the Grenadier
to be an electric version. No doubt, you can have
a really solid off road electric car, and that's what
we aim to do with the Fuselier.
Speaker 4 (15:54):
I respect that. Hey, how do you deal with the
dealership issue?
Speaker 3 (16:00):
Because all of your competitors, even land Rover, has dealers,
regardless of how often people complain about them. Did you
have to start a new dealership network? I mean here
in the US, in Europe, in Asia that seems like
almost as big and undertaking as developing a car.
Speaker 1 (16:22):
Oh, I'm so glad you recognize that, Matt, because I
think you know, the car is the hard bit.
Speaker 5 (16:26):
But you're right.
Speaker 1 (16:27):
Getting it out to market in you know, within fifty
countries now, that's you know, getting on for three hundred
retail locations and building that in two and a half
years has been really challenging as well. It's worked really
particularly well in the US, though, I would say, because
we've got you know, a really really strong dealer franchise
(16:50):
model in the US that I know, you know, we've
kind of as car manufacturers, tried to pick apart at
various times over over the last ten years to see
if we can be more direct consumer. But we did
that in one or two of it other markets. It
doesn't work very well. And I think that what we
have in the US now is a network of extremely strong, passionate,
(17:11):
supportive dealers who are out there, you know, kind of
scrapping with us to build this brand. So it's worked
really well.
Speaker 2 (17:18):
I have to say this, actually this last weekend, I
was just out in Pasadena at the Rose Bowl and
drove past Russnak Yeah yeah, which has such a good
reputation in California, and your guys section of that dealership
look fabulous, and I mean you had there were lots
of rigs out there. It looked really great. And I
(17:39):
think Russnak is the dealer that did the loan the
press loan for me too, So you know, for what
it's worth, that was a really positive experience. It was
nice to see and nice to experience that.
Speaker 1 (17:49):
And that's really great to hear, Hannah, Hannah, because you know,
that's exactly what we need, is people getting the best
experience possible. This is all about the customer. People are
spending their hard earned cash on a new car, not
just a new car, but a new concept of a
car and a new company that hasn't done this before.
Although we've worked with a massive amount of the best
(18:11):
experts in the business, so we believe that we've delivered
a really strong vehicle, but it's there's a big leap
of faith and we need to work with the best
of the best that are really putting the.
Speaker 5 (18:21):
Customer at the heart of that.
Speaker 1 (18:23):
And so I think we built a lot of the
network through relationships in a way with people like Brian
from Ruznak, which is okay, you know, and when we
get them all in a room together, I think they
look around the room and say, oh yeah, you know,
they respect to one another because they're the kind of
people that really know what they're doing, that have been
in the business a long time, but mainly put the
(18:44):
customer first, and they've taken a leap of faith with
us as well.
Speaker 2 (18:47):
What would you say, is there a single point of
has a tendency that you seem to get from consumers
who might be interested in buying and a grenadier, But
you know, is there one specific thing that is really
a stumbling block for them that you guys are working
to overcome.
Speaker 1 (19:06):
Yeah, I think one of the main ones, and this
is global, but certainly true in the US as well
because it's such a vast country, is that you know,
we'll round out this year with about forty retail locations
in North America, So that's including a couple in Canada
as well. You know, that's not exactly you know, carpet
(19:28):
bombing a vast country with lots of service locations, right, So,
I think people will travel to buy a car, but
they don't want to travel to service a car. So
I think that providing like a really solid after sales
capability for people, now, we're not going to probably manage,
given our size and given our age, we're probably not
(19:49):
going to manage to achieve that across the United States.
So what we really focus then on is really servicing
the people around the areas where there's critical mass of
people that have bought grenadiers. I think that's something that
we've got to really focus on, is giving people the
comfort that they're going to be able to get their
car serviced at minimal inconvenience.
Speaker 3 (20:07):
I realized after the fact that I left out Africa,
and I said, your dealership networks in the US and
Europe and Asia, but Africa must be like the spiritual
home of the Grenadier, right, because it's like an overlanding vehicle.
Speaker 4 (20:20):
It's perfect for safaris.
Speaker 3 (20:23):
What are you think the coolest use case scenarios that
you've heard of so far for your new car? I mean,
have you have you got a Safari operator that ordered
twenty Grenadier's or do you have people using them for
science experiment at the North Pole?
Speaker 4 (20:40):
Or is there something awesome that you've seen.
Speaker 1 (20:43):
Yeah, we have, We've seen a few in Africa. Is
a great place to talk about because you're right and
you're so spot on. Actually, it is the spiritual home
because I think although the idea was in the pub,
the Grenadier Pub, it was really boring out of doing
lots and lots of adventurous travel in Africa.
Speaker 5 (20:59):
You know, gym to go to places that are.
Speaker 1 (21:01):
Really untouched and really adventurous and you need the tool
to get you there and get you out again, particularly
in some you know, quite dangerous places with a lot
of the animals and things that are roaming around. Some
of the places he likes to spend time in Africa. Yeah,
I guess the most fun aspect of that is we
do actually have a Safari game viewer Grenadier, which is
(21:24):
quite exciting. So, you know, we we went and built
one with a modifier in Botswana to see what it
would look like, to see if Jim liked it. It
was his birthday at the time, and he liked it
so much we bought the modifier and we're now.
Speaker 5 (21:39):
Producing game viewers.
Speaker 1 (21:41):
So yeah, coming to a Safari camp near you.
Speaker 2 (21:46):
You mentioned importing earlier. I'm just curious, how are you
guys doing with the tariff situation? Are you seeing that
already impacting buyers in the US? You know, how are
you feeling about all that?
Speaker 1 (22:02):
Yeah, I mean it was it was definitely a blow because,
you know, we were just really gearing up. We were
just over one year selling in the US, you know,
biggest market, you know, aiming for significant growth this year,
you know, you know, forty percent growth this year, completely
achievable given that we're adding about fourteen sales points.
Speaker 5 (22:23):
You know, this is completely achievable.
Speaker 1 (22:26):
And it just kind of arrested us in our steps
for about five minutes of going you know, my god,
what do we do now? It's twenty five percent on
top of a two and a half percent tariff.
Speaker 5 (22:37):
You know, there's no doubt that that's not.
Speaker 1 (22:41):
Anything like what we expected to happen or wanted to happen.
We knew that we'd be tariff movement, but we expected
the Europeans because we're effectively because we manufacture in France,
were coming from Europe. We expected the Europeans to negotiate,
and they didn't, and all of a sudden, the worst
case scenario happened, not just on cars but on par.
Speaker 5 (23:01):
And for US as well.
Speaker 1 (23:02):
We have a Quartermaster pickup truck I'm not sure if
you've seen that yet, which is perfect for the US market,
and because it's a pickup truck and a light commercial vehicle,
it also attracts chicken tax, so actually.
Speaker 2 (23:15):
To import now the chicken tax is right, yeah, so
it's like fifty right, yes, in addition to.
Speaker 1 (23:24):
So fifty percent for this fantastic car that's really built
for the US market. And we just don't really understand
why europe is not motivated to negotiate away and inequity,
because you know, all the US government was saying was
there's an inequity you're paying two and a half percent
to get into my country. I'm paying ten percent to
get into yours. Do something about it. And that seems
(23:47):
like a really straightforward business negotiation to me. So very frustrating.
But are we seeing a massive impact. I mean, we
put our prices up by five percent, so twenty five
percent increase in cost, but we put our price up
by five percent, which means, you know, a mixture of
ourselves and our retailers are are kind of taking the
(24:07):
pain to kind of just try and keep demand up
for such a nascent, early brand that isn't really very
well known yet. And we want to just give buyers,
people who are sitting on the fence, the comfort to
say it's still a heck of a lot of car
for the money. It's a good price for the vehicle,
and we'll support the extra tariffs for now, you know,
(24:31):
until hopefully there's a negotiation, and if not, we'll continue
to support it. This is a sustainable plan which says,
you know, this is what you'll pay for a Grenadier now,
and you know at the end of the year as well.
Speaker 4 (24:43):
So you build the you build the I guess truck
is a word I want to use, is that a
fair word to use for the.
Speaker 5 (24:50):
Because it's a it's a great word.
Speaker 6 (24:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (24:52):
So you build the truck in France, right, didn't you
buy a factory in France? Tell us about that product facility,
why you chose it, and how it's working.
Speaker 1 (25:05):
Yes, So we bought a former Mercedes plant in France
about five years ago now actually, so we've had it
for quite some time, and it's really it's one of
the really kind of best parts of our story in
a way, and it's one of the luckier parts of
our story because I think if we'd had to build
a factory at the same time as building a car,
we might still be doing that rather than talking about
(25:27):
tariffs and things. So, yeah, it was one of the
best things that happened, really, And you know, Mercedes had
made a number of very large scale investments in that plant,
including in a new state of the art body shop,
paint shop, but it had kind of decided to rationalize
their production to lots of other places across the world
because of course they have many, many factories, and you know,
(25:48):
we got the opportunity to take it on and run
with it really with that investment already made. So it
was a no brainer and got us up and running
really quickly, and we are very, very grateful for that opportunity.
Speaker 2 (26:03):
I'm just curious, you know, do you ever get a
sense about whether Jim would would bring on additional investors
into the company. You know, is he giving you guidance
about how much he wants to continue investing versus bringing
others to lighten the load just on him.
Speaker 1 (26:20):
Yeah, it's a great question, Hannah, and a really insightful
one at a time when the industry is challenging right
on almost every metric. You know, we talked about missions earlier.
That's hadding loads of cost in Europe in particular where
we manufacture. So you know, it's it's a really tricky time.
But there's no doubt that, I mean, Jim's commitment to
the business is you know, unwavering.
Speaker 5 (26:45):
You know, he is the he's the kind of beginning
of all of this business.
Speaker 1 (26:51):
He seeded it. He you know, it's his, it's his idea.
And what we've done to kind of take that idea
and run with it and make it a global business
that is you know, pretty close after a very short
time to washing its face. There's no doubt that his
support is absolutely unwavering. But I'll also say I don't
(27:11):
think you ever say never in any situation, right because
what you need in automotive is scale, and we've got
ambitions way beyond what we're doing today, way beyond you know,
this is just the start for us. We've got, you know,
probably three or four other models in mind, you know,
the Fusilier being one that we're kind of quite far
through developing. But you know, I'd say that if it's
(27:35):
the right thing to do at the right time, we
would never say never.
Speaker 2 (27:39):
That brings up one more question I have for you,
and it's about what you're talking about, your ambitions. I
have to say I was so pleasantly surprised at the
price point of the field Master. You know, I we've
seen so many resto mods obviously this is not a
resto mood, but so many you know, off roading vehicles,
rest of mods that are six figures, and the field
(28:02):
Master that I drove was around eighty a little over eighty.
How important is it for you guys to stay around
that price point? Is that a big part of the
plan and the structure of the company, or will you
be expanding, going up, going down? What's that conversation, like, so.
Speaker 1 (28:21):
I think with the Grenadier, we think the price points right,
I said this earlier, like I do think it's a
lot of car for the money because I know how
much engineering is in this car and the component tree,
like it's the best of components, and there's the things
you can you know, see in touch, like you know
if you pop the hood and you see it's BMW engine,
but it's also you know, the control units like Bosh Continental,
(28:43):
you know, our carro seat, our Brembo breaks. You know,
these are all brand names that are the componentry that's
gone into the car. F transmission. I'd already called the
mat Matt thought.
Speaker 3 (28:54):
I know, but theresision world, you know, so I felt
like it was mentioned again.
Speaker 4 (29:00):
I wonder about the steering specifically.
Speaker 3 (29:02):
Can I ask about that, Linn, because while I haven't
driven it, I guess I'd love to hear Hannah's thoughts.
Speaker 4 (29:08):
I've watched a lot of.
Speaker 3 (29:10):
YouTube videos about the Grenadier because I am obsessed, kind
of obsessed with this vehicle and have been for a
few years. The one thing that everyone calls out is
that it's not your typical kind of self centering steering,
and that's because of the off road you know, pedigree
of the of the engineering.
Speaker 4 (29:29):
Would you ever change.
Speaker 3 (29:31):
That or is that you think, you know, like a
specific piece of the vehicle's character that you want.
Speaker 5 (29:39):
Yeah, I think.
Speaker 1 (29:40):
For the Grenadier in particular, and I completely understand the point.
I obviously drive one. I read your review, Hannah, so
I kind of know what your thoughts were, and you,
you know, really really well described it as well as
to why it is the way it is, and when
you do a lot of off roading, you really feel why,
because that's stability. When you're doing some pretty difficult off roading,
(30:03):
you know, you feel like immediately you know why it
is the way it is. But on the road that
can feel you know, a bit jarring, particularly I would
say in a world where modern cars aren't like that,
whereas if you go back ten fifteen years, you know,
it was very normal to drive cars that felt like that.
So I get in a Grenadier on the road and
(30:25):
you know, within five minutes it wasn't really bothering me
at all because I kind of remembered what it was
like to drive.
Speaker 5 (30:31):
Older, slightly older cars.
Speaker 1 (30:33):
And I kind of love it as well, because you know,
talk about it sort of putting the drive back into driving.
Speaker 5 (30:38):
You know, I don't need to kind of have a.
Speaker 1 (30:41):
Yeah, I don't need to have a fingertip, you know,
on the steering wheel. I kind of like feeling the
robustness of the vehicles, so it doesn't bother me at all.
But to answer your question, I think, you know, there
are probably optimizations will make to the Grendier because we're
listening all the time and we want to make sure
that we make it the best vehicle it can be.
And the way that you'd best do that is listen
(31:03):
to your customers. And I think that there are optimizations,
but there will be that there will be tweaks. They
won't be we're not going to change the steering system.
But then when we were, you know, starting the development
of the Fusilier, which doesn't need to be our most
most off road capab capable vehicle because we have that
in the Grenadier. That will be a rack and pinion system,
(31:24):
because that will be a much more of an urban
vehicle that you can take off road rather than an
off road vehicle that you can take into the city,
which I think is kind of what the Grenadier is.
Speaker 4 (31:34):
I can't wait to drive this vehicle, christ I want
to drive it.
Speaker 1 (31:37):
Oh, I'll get you in one, mate.
Speaker 2 (31:40):
Like, yes, the steering is noticeable, but it's not a problem.
It's just different. And I totally agree that. You know,
you get used to it really quickly, and if you
want something that is going to go canyon carving, you
just get a different vehicle. You know this, this is
not that it's we talk all the time about the
(32:01):
right tool for the job, and you know, to me,
at least, I like how it has a personality that
you know, it's it's alive. I really like that. I'm
Matt and I talk all the time about how we're
so tired of driving appliances around.
Speaker 3 (32:16):
So yeah, I feel like it must be a defining
characteristic because that's what people used to say about the
old g Wagon and now that they've made it obviously
a road driving car, and.
Speaker 4 (32:28):
The same is true of the Bronco. It's more for Starbucks,
you know.
Speaker 3 (32:33):
I mean, I'm sure you can take it off road
as well, but the idea is they had to make
it drivable for soccer moms too.
Speaker 1 (32:40):
I hope that's not too yeah, And I mean I'd
say that a lot of our clientele is is that
you know, we're you kind of joke to the beginning
of that about seeing lots, you.
Speaker 5 (32:49):
Know, riding around Beverly Hills.
Speaker 1 (32:51):
You know that that is the market as well, because
it's also just something different, right, It's a cool looking car,
it's different, stands out and people enjoy its character. Yeah,
I guess because it's got quite a lot of character
inside as well. We talk a lot about this vehicle,
but the interior has got quite a lot of character.
It's quite you know, different, designed by us to kind
(33:15):
of really feel like you're in a different environment, and
that's got a lot of a lure as well as
just the off characteristic.
Speaker 3 (33:22):
I have a neighbor in Scarsdale, New York who has one,
and I stopped to talk to him about it. He said,
everybody stops to talk to him about it, and obviously
we wouldn't if he just had a jeep. So you know,
that's definitely a huge bonus having something that other people
don't necessarily have.
Speaker 4 (33:38):
Having said that, I'm sure you want to sell more.
Speaker 3 (33:42):
How many are you expecting to sell this year or
do you have a target for now or five years
from now?
Speaker 4 (33:49):
What are you thinking in terms of volume.
Speaker 1 (33:52):
Yeah, so I'm thinking, I mean, we are aiming for
I think our target this year is eleven thousand, which
again you know when we did about eight last year.
Speaker 2 (34:03):
From the standing star is global sales or North America.
Speaker 5 (34:06):
No North America, so you.
Speaker 4 (34:10):
Know where your GLO global sales.
Speaker 1 (34:13):
So we've got we've got twenty five thousand grenadiers on
the road globally at the moment, and you know, seeking
to grow quite quickly now because we've got quite a
lot of global coverage now, right. So for the first
year we were just kind of sort of eking into
and getting started up into kind of i'd say early
markets like the UK and Germany and Australia, whereas you
(34:37):
know now we're kind of really expanding. The US has
been a huge part of that. So yeah, the growth
last year from the US alone was was really really
substantial for us, and I think that you know, as
we went into this year, it was all then about
continued growth, so adding quite a lot of sales points,
(34:58):
adding quite a lot of you know, filling in some
of the white gaps big you know, metropolis white gaps
on the map that is going to really help us grow.
And then you know, The final aspect of that, of course,
is just awareness. I think almost nobody has heard of us.
We've still got such a big job to do to
tell our kind of really quite unique backstory. And you
(35:21):
get people into the driving seat of this car because
it is I don't think there's anything like it on
the market, which means you get in and as you say, Hannah,
you know, for lots of people just say this, this
won't suit my life. We don't need to sell you know,
a million of them a year. That's that's not a problem.
Speaker 2 (35:40):
But for the.
Speaker 1 (35:40):
People that really get it and they get in the
driver's seat, they just kind of it kind of brings
out your inner child or something. You know, You've got
this kind of this this this toy that you're playing
with that's got lots of fun capability and fun things
you can do with it. And I kind of think
it brings us all back to being like a kid again.
(36:01):
And I think for us to grow, just getting more
people to experience that.
Speaker 3 (36:05):
People will know now now that you're on the Hot
Pursuit podcast, you know, we have dozens of listeners. So
but also Hannah wrote about it in Hot Pursuit and
I asked my buddy Tim. He asked me what the
podcast was on today and I said the Iner and
he said, oh, they sponsor a Tour de Frost team.
Speaker 4 (36:25):
So what do you what do you do to get
the message out?
Speaker 3 (36:30):
Are you plopping down a bunch of are you plopping
down thousands of pounds on advertising? Or is it are
you sponsoring extreme sports teams or does Jim put it
on the side of a hot air balloon or what
do you do?
Speaker 5 (36:46):
That's a great question like that.
Speaker 1 (36:49):
Yeah, I'll note down some of your ideas there.
Speaker 5 (36:52):
Sounds great.
Speaker 1 (36:54):
I mean, we're not going to go down the route
of in sort typical in your style. We're not going
to go down the route of us suppose stand under
oem of just spend you know, tens of millions, hundreds
of millions of dollars on advertising because we won't cut through.
You know, I think we've got to do it differently.
We've got to kind of find a way to punch
above our weight and we'll never make any money.
Speaker 5 (37:17):
And we're here to do that, right.
Speaker 1 (37:19):
This is not just about a nice story and a
great car. We're here to make a commercial.
Speaker 5 (37:25):
Success of this.
Speaker 1 (37:26):
So our ideas are much more about how do we
punch above our weight, right, So that's about our tone
of voice. It's about getting out there telling the story,
being a little bit punchy sometimes.
Speaker 5 (37:38):
You know.
Speaker 1 (37:39):
We recently did an ad campaign with Defender right where
we kind of sort of really take on head on
the fact that there's been legal disputes and really kind
of really sought through that campaign also though, to highlight
the differences between our two vehicles, the ones that are
on the road today, not that we're on the road
twenty years ago. So trying to be have a bit
(37:59):
of fun with it maybe is the answer to that question.
Speaker 2 (38:03):
Lynn. I think you went to school in Aberdeen, right, Scotland?
Speaker 5 (38:07):
I did.
Speaker 2 (38:08):
Yes, Did you grow up up in Aberdeen as well
or close by?
Speaker 5 (38:15):
So?
Speaker 1 (38:15):
I was born near Edinburgh, in the county next to Edinburgh,
moved to Aberdeenshire when I was ten, to this tiny,
tiny little town of you know, four thousand people, and
I grew up there until I went to school. So yeah,
great memories of both places.
Speaker 5 (38:36):
Love Scotland.
Speaker 1 (38:37):
Still get home as often as I can, but yeah,
it's been a long time since I've lived there.
Speaker 2 (38:41):
I don't miss the weather, well, I bet you know.
The reason I ask is because I'm actually in Las
Vegas right now with my niece who lives in She's Scottish,
she lives in Aberdeen, and you know, it's an oil
town in a way. I mean, the oil industry is
huge there, of course. You know, I'm just curious if
you have any words of wisdom for kids, teenagers who
(39:06):
are from Aberdeen that you know, maybe making their way
out into the world. Any any words of wisdom.
Speaker 1 (39:14):
Oh, I love that, Hannah, Absolutely love that question, and
I love that you're You're with your your Scottish niece
from Aberdeen.
Speaker 5 (39:19):
That's incredible, you.
Speaker 1 (39:21):
Know, it's kind of it's yeah, it's a pretty small
part of Scotland, but you're right, it's actually got such
a rich industrial past and I think that that you know,
certainly used to give massive opportunity to get into an
industry that too q around the world, which is exactly
what I did. And I think that's probably slightly changed
days today because you know, fossil fuels are are are
(39:44):
more difficult proposition from an industry perspective, and our government
at the woman doesn't particularly want them anymore. So Aberdeen
is is definitely not the place that it was. But
I think that your your your niece has got the
world at her feet and it is her oyster whatever
she wants to do. And I think we live in
a world today where the opportunities are endless in a way,
(40:07):
and if I can, you know, get out of Aberdeen
and come and run a car company, then there's hope
for everyone.
Speaker 2 (40:14):
Well I love that.
Speaker 4 (40:15):
Yeah, I mean you've done very well.
Speaker 3 (40:16):
So I think maybe maybe Hannah you can connect them
and they can and she can get some advice from Lynn. Hey,
I wanted just to finally ask about the pub. I
feel like the vehicle maybe has made the pub even
more famous. There's only room for like four or five
people in that pub. I've been to it a few
(40:38):
times off the groven Or Crescent there in bell Gravia.
Have you been in there? I mean, it's such a
cool little pub and it's so fun that it inspired
the name of this rugged you know, globally sold off
road vehicle.
Speaker 1 (40:54):
Yeah, and it's actually added to the story more than
ever night because two years ago we bought the pub.
Speaker 4 (40:59):
Matt, I did not know that.
Speaker 1 (41:02):
Yeah, such an integral part of the story, right, you know,
it's it's it's really you know, it's kind of it's
folklore for us now because it's it really is the
start of something that's become very big and impactful and
important in our lives. So, yeah, I'm in the the
Grenadier reasonably often. Tony the landlord is wonderful, will have
(41:24):
his chat to you, and you know, poor you a
really decent pint. So it's a fabulous little pub. But yeah,
we we kind of decided that it's it's part of
our story and we should make sure that it stays
the way it is.
Speaker 2 (41:37):
Do you have gym in the pub these days?
Speaker 1 (41:42):
I mean, Jim is a very busy man, as you
can imagine, Hannah, and I think when he's in London
he loves to to grab a drink in the Grandeer.
But yeah, he's he's pretty busy. I couldn't possibly know
how often he's in the Granadier.
Speaker 3 (41:55):
But do you have Grenadier owners from all over Europe
like making pilgrimage to the pub?
Speaker 4 (42:01):
Do you see the other vehicles pulled up outside there?
Speaker 6 (42:05):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (42:06):
And quite often as well, you know if you know,
because the whole team spends time in there as well, right,
and you know, we're all like very good at running
around with branded kit on that's got and you. Quite
a lot of our customers do as well. So I've
had people come up to me in the pub that
have kind of sort of, you know, either recognized me
or recognized because I've been waiting in any sort of
(42:27):
motive piece of kit and they've come over to say hello,
and who are you because I'm a Grandier owner. So yeah,
I think it has become a bit of a pilgrimage
and that's a lovely part of the story. So cool.
Speaker 2 (42:40):
I love that. Thank you for taking the timeline. It's
really great to talk with you. We hope you come
back and talk to us more.
Speaker 1 (42:47):
Yes, I really appreciate the opportunity as well. Guys love
the fact that you have been driving the car, Hannah,
and we must get you in one.
Speaker 4 (42:54):
Matt, I'm looking forward to it.
Speaker 3 (42:55):
I know I know a guy who has one, so
I'm gonna hopefully get a chance soon. By the way,
if you ever get into New York or next time
you're in New York, I'd love to have you on
my television show.
Speaker 1 (43:08):
Well, look, that would be fab I'm in New York
fairly recently, but I'll tell you what I'll do, Mat,
I'll turn up with a lone grenadier for you so
that you can get one.
Speaker 5 (43:15):
You don't need to borrow one from your mate.
Speaker 6 (43:17):
Thanks so much, big fan.
Speaker 2 (43:27):
Love that she's from Scotland because, like I said, I've
literally been around a young Scottish lass for the past
week and they're just delightful.
Speaker 4 (43:37):
I also feel like it's a perfect place for this vehicle.
Speaker 3 (43:39):
I mean, I know I said Africa is a spiritual home,
but think about like skyfall, right, I know this is
a truck that needs to be driven across the highlands.
Speaker 2 (43:50):
Scottish Highland's wearing a kilt, yes, and like eating magis
and playing bag pipes all at the same time, I.
Speaker 4 (43:57):
Should wear a kilt. More off, does Magnus ever wear
a kilt?
Speaker 2 (44:00):
Well, no, he's not Scottish. You know, there's quite a
I've been getting a real download on the history of
Scotland in England and no he does not wear a kilt.
But apparently a lot of the young kids do in Scotland,
like for school dances and for formals. Even like the
young the young boys, like teenage boys, will wear a kilt.
Speaker 3 (44:21):
Yeah, I would wear a kilt on a regular basis
if I were Scottish.
Speaker 4 (44:25):
Yeah, I feel like if you're not Scottish, it's tough
to pull it off.
Speaker 2 (44:30):
Correct.
Speaker 4 (44:30):
Just a casual kilt.
Speaker 2 (44:33):
Yeah, a casual kilt. That's a hard hard line to walk.
Speaker 4 (44:36):
But yeah, So you're in Vegas with Magnus.
Speaker 2 (44:41):
With Magnus and my mother in law and my niece.
We just took a little mini vacation here. My niece
has never been, so she's visiting. And also, did I
tell you that we just bought a new Rolls Royce. Yeah, cheap, Yes,
that's the excite. It's a it's a silver Spur seventy
(45:02):
two two tone blackened sort of a claret. They call
it regal red, but it's more of a burgundy claret color.
Speaker 4 (45:08):
So how many Rolls Royce is do you do you
guys own?
Speaker 1 (45:12):
Now?
Speaker 2 (45:12):
This is number four? There Again, I have to say
they are really they're very, very inexpensive vehicles. But this
is a fun one. And so far, I mean, each
of the three previous has broken down on the first drive.
This one has did not break down on the first drive.
So we're already ahead. Yes, you know, it's only up
(45:34):
from here, only down from here.
Speaker 6 (45:36):
Really.
Speaker 3 (45:36):
I was going to say they may be inexpensive to buy,
but I imagine that the maintenance can get pretty pricey.
Speaker 2 (45:43):
It depends, it depends. This Actually, this one was a
two owner car. The people who we bought it from
had owned it for twenty seven years, so it has
been cared for, not driven a lot. So it needs
a real shakedown and sort of a run through by
our mechanic, but cared for. So that's that's nice and appearent.
(46:06):
It appears to be full, full, full original. We haven't
seen any sort of painting touch ups or weird things
like that, so I'll keep you posted on that.
Speaker 3 (46:17):
Your white whale seems to be the Rolls Royce Camarg. Right,
you've been after that and you still didn't on number four,
you still haven't gotten one.
Speaker 2 (46:25):
No, the problem with the camarg is they tend to
be more expensive. That's the that's the difference. They're a
lot rarer than the Silver Shadow is actually the most
the most produced Rolls Royce up from the era. They
made over thirty thousand of them, so they are rather common.
The Camarg is a lot rarer, and I don't I
(46:47):
don't want to quote a number a bit but they're
quite a bit rare, so yeah, more expensive, and so
it's just harder to like pull the trigger on something
that's a lot more money. You know, Yes, well you're
getting so if you're getting something soon, right.
Speaker 4 (47:01):
That's right.
Speaker 3 (47:02):
My wife went out of town for a couple of weeks,
so I bought a Harley Davidson Fat Boss. As you do, yes,
so I'm gonna go down. I bought it in Fredericksburg, Virginia.
They don't make the Fat Bob anymore. They stopped making
it in twenty twenty three, which is one of the
reasons that I wanted to get it sooner than later,
(47:23):
so I could find a nice low mileage but not
too low mileage, example, a one owner bike. It's already
had the air filter, the exhaust and the tune. I'm
not sure if it has a cam yet, but I
want to put in my own cam, so I don't
really care about it.
Speaker 4 (47:41):
It is a twenty twenty three.
Speaker 3 (47:43):
It's a twenty three right bike, so anyway, But the
thing is, I have to be at a graduation. My
nephew's graduating from Dickinson on Saturday and Sunday, so I'm
gonna fly out of here like right away and land
in DC around three o'clock, and then.
Speaker 4 (48:04):
I guess I'll get there by four or five.
Speaker 3 (48:07):
And then i'll drive straight back and hopefully get back
around midnight New York through the night. But it's not
so bad like that, that in itself isn't a problem.
Speaker 4 (48:18):
It's supposed to.
Speaker 3 (48:19):
I'm supposed to run through thunderstorms a lot of the way,
but I have a rain suit, so you know.
Speaker 4 (48:27):
Nonetheless, I'm pretty excited.
Speaker 2 (48:29):
That's really cool. That'll be a fun adventure.
Speaker 4 (48:32):
Absolutely.
Speaker 3 (48:34):
I also spent the week driving a Subaru Forester, which
I didn't think was going to be terribly exciting, and
guess what, it wasn't terribly exciting.
Speaker 2 (48:45):
However, I didn't get any excited text from you about
the forest.
Speaker 3 (48:49):
No, there was nothing exciting about it. But I will
say that the vehicle is sturdy. The Boxer motor is
not strong, but it's not annoying. And the price is low.
So I had like the most kitted out, absolute top
of the line version with every option, and it was
(49:12):
still only forty three grand, which in today's world is
really good for a full sized station wagon. So I
went to the beach with it last weekend with my
mom and my and my two daughters and a dog
and all of our stuff.
Speaker 4 (49:28):
Everything fit.
Speaker 3 (49:30):
And then my mom, who's not bought a car that
isn't Evolvo since the nineteen seventies, has decided she's going
to pick one up herself.
Speaker 4 (49:39):
Oh so they made a sale.
Speaker 2 (49:41):
Yeah, I mean, I've too bad. You can't take a
commission on that, because you did the work.
Speaker 3 (49:46):
It would be a very small commission, you know. I mean,
I think it's pretty cool that they're still making that.
Some companies are still making relatively affordable vehicles, like I
had I interviewed the CEO of Slate on my television show,
which is the new Amazon backed electric pickup truck maker.
(50:09):
They're gonna sell those for like twenty five grand I think,
out of the box, and then you can make it
into a five seater or a fastback or whatever you want.
But you know, there's the Ford has the Maverick, Like
there are still some inexpensive vehicles, and I think that's
really important. Otherwise you don't get kids into the market.
(50:30):
You don't get kids into the hobby.
Speaker 2 (50:32):
Are we having the see of Slate?
Speaker 4 (50:34):
Come on, she's gonna join us.
Speaker 2 (50:36):
Yes, right, cool, cool cool, And I love that mentality.
I mean, I don't think things have to be expensive
to be special. I never have. Those two things are
two separate indicators.
Speaker 3 (50:49):
No, I always you know, and I always think people
can buy used and should buy used stuff. And when
I talk to Harley about you know, the starter, Harley,
everyone come playing is that they don't have a bike
that's you know, seven thousand or six thousand dollars, and
they always say, we have a starter, Harley.
Speaker 4 (51:07):
It's called the used sportster.
Speaker 3 (51:09):
And that's the one that kids, you know, people nevitally,
that's their first if they're yeah, if they get into
it young, that's their first purchase. And not only is
it good because they haven't wasted money if they don't
like it or wasted too much money, and they're not
buying too much bike for themselves. You know, it's it's
got I don't know, sixty horse power, but I think
it's it's really important that you have this low cost
(51:33):
entry point for anything for people to get into it.
And that's true of cars as well, even though they're
of course an appliance and utility.
Speaker 2 (51:41):
For most people completely. And I also think it's a
nice reference point for somewhere to go. You know, it's
better to it's better to aspire to other things. You know,
if you're coming in at a low price point, it
makes you appreciate and understand the value of the thing,
(52:02):
and then from there you can go elsewhere if you want.
Speaker 3 (52:04):
But yeah, what have you got coming up? What are
you driving home? By the way, how did you get
to Vegas?
Speaker 2 (52:11):
Oh? Great question, I will be driving home. And did
drive the twenty twenty five EQS four fifty sedan, and
this was a bit of a you know, I was
a little bit worried that wasn't going to make it
from Vegas. It's electric, they said that. The range when
I got the car, the range said five hundred and
(52:31):
fourteen miles, which of course I don't believe. But actually
it made it. It made it with over one hundred
and ten miles to go left on the charge, so
I was very happy. I'll be driving that back the
hotel where I'm staying at, the Wind, which is a
really great hotel. It's not Vegas, it's the Wind is
the is the tagline, which I kind of like. But
(52:51):
they've been really helpful charging it overnight and yeh, so
I'll be driving that back very comfortable ac works, which
is very important.
Speaker 3 (52:59):
Did you see the message we got from down about his.
Speaker 4 (53:03):
Trip, Yes?
Speaker 2 (53:04):
I did.
Speaker 3 (53:05):
Where was he was like going to Bozemon right in
a tesla or somewhere like that, and he stated he
want to do well, Yeah, he said I should. He well,
he said, I should drive the g Wagon to Ohio
to see what it's like to go on a longer
trip with an electric vehicle. And frankly, I've I've I've
already had that experience in Germany. I drove the Audi
(53:28):
e Tron from Berlin to Frankfurt and it took eight hours,
a trip that takes me like four and a half
in a nine to eleven. But he said he drove
to somewhere in Montana and then the hotel didn't have
any way to charge the car except for running an
extension cord out of his room like the regular one
hundred and ten volt outlet, and so they couldn't go
(53:50):
to Yellowstone because they didn't have enough electricity.
Speaker 2 (53:53):
That a huge bummer, and huge bummer, and I had
that that unknown factor of even if we make it
to our destination, what will the charging options. Be at
the destination does create quite a lot of anxiety. So
you know, the only plug I can say is stay
at the wind. The chargers work. It's totally flawless, no
(54:15):
issue you signed. You do have to sign a release
for him that lets the the guys charge it for you.
I haven't got the bill yet, so I don't know
how much the charging will have cost. But yeah, that
would be the hugest bummer ever.
Speaker 4 (54:30):
Missing on a Yellowstone because of your Tesla. I have
to think that's changed even into Montana.
Speaker 2 (54:36):
Let's hope.
Speaker 4 (54:37):
I have to like it's changing. Yeah, yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 6 (54:42):
All right.
Speaker 4 (54:42):
Anyway, Well, I hope you have a great trip home.
That's a very luxurious chariot, so enjoy that.
Speaker 3 (54:49):
I'm about to go turn in this Subaru for a
Chevy Blazer EV. So I'm going to get back on
the TV. Yeah, I really am on the EV train.
I got a lot coming up of electric vehicles.
Speaker 2 (55:03):
No one can say that you don't drive evs.
Speaker 1 (55:06):
You've been.
Speaker 3 (55:08):
I'm finding them quite enjoyable for the most part. It's
just those practical concerns that may hold me back. But
I've seen in the case of a Mercedes G five eighty.
Nothing would hold me back beyond the price tag.
Speaker 4 (55:26):
All Right, I'm Matt Miller
Speaker 2 (55:28):
I'm Hannah Elliott, and this is Bloomberg.
Hosts And Creators
Hannah Elliott
Matt Miller
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