March 21, 2025 • 45 mins
Lamborghini Chairman and CEO Stephan Winkelmann joins the podcast, plus Hannah's exclusive ride in the new CLA sedan with Mercedes-Benz Group's Ola Kallenius.
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
I'm Matt Miller and I'm Hannah Elliott and this is Hot.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
Pursuit, and uh, you are back state side, so I'm
back state side.
Speaker 3 (00:18):
I'm really excited to hear about your time in Rome,
mainly because I want to hear about Ola, but also
about the car that you were driving, the c LA,
and you also have wrangled us a pretty awesome interview
for today.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
Stefan Winkelman or Stephen Winkleman defending you say it the
German way.
Speaker 3 (00:35):
I do, And but he's actually from Italy.
Speaker 4 (00:38):
So Berlin. Well he's but also Berlin.
Speaker 3 (00:42):
Yeah, I'm wait, wait we so he grew up in Italy.
Maybe he was born at Charity and then he grew
up in Rome. Yeah, so he has a German sounding name,
but he's like actually an Italian dude. And of course
he's always worked with like German companies.
Speaker 1 (00:58):
Yes, and we should say he's the CEO and chairman
and CEO of Lamborghini and has been for many years now,
so he's really kind of indelible with the brand in
my mind at this point.
Speaker 3 (01:09):
He was there for a while and then he left
and then he came back. So there was uh Winkleman
in one point. Oh, and then when he left Domenicali
step Stephan Domenicali ran Lamborghini. Then now he's running F
one and then and Winkleman was running Bugatti.
Speaker 4 (01:26):
Well yeah, and.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
For a while, remember when Winkleman was running Bugatti and
Lamborghini at the same time.
Speaker 4 (01:32):
Yes, which seems like a lot.
Speaker 5 (01:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
Now he's just at Lamborghini again, which feels like really
his spiritual home.
Speaker 3 (01:40):
Exactly, And to me it feels like that too. But
I think he enjoyed this time at Bugatti, and I
got to drive some Bugattis with him at the track,
which was lucky. Pretty I've driven Lamborghini's with him at
the track and I've driven Bugatties with him at the track.
Speaker 4 (01:53):
So he was driving and you were in the passenger
seat both.
Speaker 3 (01:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (01:57):
How good a driver was he?
Speaker 3 (01:59):
He is? I think he's more concerned with the business,
of course than the but I mean he's you know,
obviously he's a better driver than I am, because I'm not.
Speaker 1 (02:09):
Yeah, I was just curious if he was like very aggressive,
like really trying to show off taking corners, or just
more relaxed.
Speaker 3 (02:17):
No. I think, well, when you're driving a Bugatti, certainly
your first order of business is not wrecking it.
Speaker 4 (02:25):
Yeah, don't wreck the car, you know, it's number one.
And that was the rubber down and the steal up.
Speaker 3 (02:29):
That was on a pretty tight track in Germany. The Lamborghini.
I went to drive the evented Door Svo with him
in Barcelona on the Formula one track, so there's a
lot more room to run off cool, although I didn't.
Speaker 5 (02:44):
Wreck that either.
Speaker 1 (02:46):
I've said this before, but I have this one great
memory of him. I was driving in Rome and I
saw him in a Bugatti with someone else who was
very beautiful, and it was just the classic Italian sighting.
Speaker 4 (03:03):
It was great.
Speaker 3 (03:04):
Probably his wife. She's very beautiful. She's like supermodel. Like
when you see her, you're like, oh my god, she's famous.
Speaker 1 (03:11):
But you like coler than me, Yes, I know, Yes,
I love a woman who's coller than me.
Speaker 5 (03:16):
All right.
Speaker 3 (03:16):
So and anyway, you were just in Rome. This is
not the time that you saw Stephan Winkleman, but you
were just in Rome with Ola Collenius, who runs the
Mercedes Benz group.
Speaker 1 (03:26):
Yes he's actually Swedish speaking of countries, but I would Yes,
I was with Ola and we took a drive in
the New CLA Sedan, which is Mercedes entry level sedan.
It's going to be the most affordable car that they
have debuted, and it's the most advanced, which I find
really interesting because they are choosing to develop all this
(03:50):
new technology and not put it in their top of
the line AMG stuff or S class or my box stuff.
They're putting truly this supercomputer that they've developed in house
into their entry level sedan, which is really interesting. I
think this is going This is them going straight for
Tesla and really trying to capture some more of the
(04:11):
market in China. But yes, I rode around with Ola
in Rome in the car and it was great. We
had a whole conversation. The car should start around fifty
thousand euros. They haven't finalized pricing for the US, but
kind of beautiful. I actually thought it might be a
(04:31):
little bit of a boring car because lately some of
the Mercedes have tended to just look like jellybeans. But
it actually had some great defining lines. The grills very cool,
the dashboard spans from pillar to pillar inside the vehicle,
and it's it is really well done. I have to say,
(04:52):
it doesn't feel entry level when you get inside.
Speaker 3 (04:55):
That's good to hear. And yeah, man, there's never been
a better time to go straight after Tesla, right exactly.
Speaker 4 (05:03):
I mean they couldn't have planned it better.
Speaker 3 (05:05):
There can be some some would be buyers that are
just not willing to fork out for a Tesla, But
that's cool that you that you liked it, and that
isn't a jelly being because I always think, or lately
I think of Mercedes they're like Moorish you know, palaces
where from the outside it's like mah, but then you
get inside and you're like, oh my god, this is awesome.
Speaker 1 (05:25):
Yeah, yeah, this is I think it's step. It's it's
a it's not it's not a massive change, but I
can feel a shift back. It's the ship is writing itself.
The ship is slowly turning. And the other interesting thing
about this CLA is they're introducing the electric version in
(05:45):
the US and then next year they're bringing a hybrid version,
which also is a little bit counterintuitive. I would think
you'd start with the hybrid and then follow up with
the EV, but they've they've flipped it, and this is
again a pivot. I think at one point they would
not have even bothered with bringing a hybrid version to
the US, but now they realize they do need to
(06:07):
still maintain combustion options for people.
Speaker 3 (06:11):
Right, there's like Scout, Scout did the same pivot, right, yes,
or we'll do the same pivot, you know, now that
you mention it. I'm looking at the CLA, the older CLA,
and I just had this BMW, which I liked very much.
But I've been noticing Audi's on the road that if
(06:31):
you take the badges off of sort of late model,
more entry level German cars, they all could look exactly
like one another. I mean, there's hardly a differentiator.
Speaker 1 (06:45):
I know, especially the big sedans and the subs.
Speaker 3 (06:49):
Take off the grill, take out the kidney beans or
the star or the four rings, and then you don't
know what you're looking at. It's all the same.
Speaker 1 (06:57):
It actually makes it pretty difficult to review them because,
like you say, you know, they're all owned by the
same three companies or the same two companies, depending on
what we're talking about, and there's a lot of part
sharing going on. So yeah, it's I do since that Automakers,
and you know, mister Winkleman says too, it's important to
(07:20):
differentiate yourself a bit, and I think they realize that
because everything just tends to blur and gloss over, and
that's not actually good in the long run for developing
brand loyalty, among other things.
Speaker 3 (07:34):
All right, well, let's get into our interview with Stephan Winklman,
the CEO of Lamborghini.
Speaker 4 (07:41):
It's such an.
Speaker 1 (07:42):
Honor as always to talk with you, mister Stephen Winkleman,
the chairman and CEO of Automobile Lamborghini, and you come
with happy tidings. I know you guys have just released
earnings for twenty twenty four. Can you just give us
a top overview. It looks like you have a very
strong year.
Speaker 5 (08:02):
Yes, in fact, today is a very good day.
Speaker 6 (08:05):
We are announcing again a record year for the year
twenty twenty four.
Speaker 5 (08:11):
The turnover for the first time is exceeding that.
Speaker 6 (08:14):
Three billion, with approximately three point one billion euro with
an operating profit of eight hundred and thirty five Also,
this is a record high. And also the deliveries to
customers with ten thousand, six hundred and eighty seven cars
again something incredible.
Speaker 5 (08:31):
And also your record high.
Speaker 6 (08:34):
The ROS is at twenty seven percent, so we are
well established and this again is not something we are
doing to have a record or running for the peaks.
We are doing it by having a solid order bank,
which time being is lasting one and a half years.
Speaker 5 (08:49):
So exclusivity scarcity is the talk of the day.
Speaker 6 (08:53):
And it's also about all the lineup renewed and this
is that's a good sign for the future of LOM
Can I ask?
Speaker 3 (09:01):
I mean, I just want to ask about the breakdown.
So ten thousand, more than ten thousand cars, and how
many of those are you know, Revuelt's and how many
are uruses?
Speaker 6 (09:15):
We have about the US is a bit more than
five thousands, so around five thousand, five hundred. We have
around fourteen hundred reuelto and the rest is Hurakan So
we have more les.
Speaker 5 (09:29):
Fifty to fifty between the two.
Speaker 6 (09:34):
Let's say type of cars, the supercars on one end
side and the Urus on the other side.
Speaker 4 (09:39):
I think that's so interesting.
Speaker 1 (09:40):
Can you talk a little bit about the breakdown since
we're talking about breakdowns of hybrids versus combustion engines. Of course,
everyone last year seemed to be a little surprised evs
weren't selling more. You guys have said you're really going
to stay in the hybrid and combustion range for a while.
Speaker 4 (10:01):
What's your update with that.
Speaker 5 (10:03):
I think that.
Speaker 6 (10:06):
Now speaking the twentieth March, twentieth of March and twenty five,
the decisions we talk in the last years were the
right ones because we said, we don't need to be
the first ones to do the things, but when we
do it, we have to do it right, and we
have to do and we have to keep the promise
of being more performing and less emitting your two emissions.
(10:30):
With all the three cars we are doing it, and
the customer reception is very good.
Speaker 5 (10:36):
We have.
Speaker 6 (10:39):
Done what, in my opinion, was the right approach, not
to courageous, but the right steps at the right time.
The next step would be by the end of the
decade we have an additional card, which would be then
the first full electric car, and I think by that
time it's okay we have three plug in hybrids so
(11:02):
with strong combustion engines like the BE twelve and the
V eights, and one additional car, which then is a
good roundup of our product range.
Speaker 3 (11:15):
By the way, with the fully electric vehicle be one
of the supercars or do you think you could put
out a fully electric suv first?
Speaker 6 (11:24):
No, the idea is to have something which is neither
nor no. We will not go into the supercars and
not an suv. We are planning what is missing in
our lineup, which is a gt A two plus two,
which is the classic no car which every exclusive or
luxury manufacturer head in his lineup, which we had in
(11:47):
the sixties and seventies. And I think that this is
a good head on for our car company.
Speaker 5 (11:52):
You have to see that in average.
Speaker 6 (11:54):
Our customers have around ten cars, so it's never the
first card they are buying as a Lamborghini, so they
have a multiple choice to drive the right car in
the right moment during the week or the months. And
therefore we think that we have this new body style
(12:17):
as the first electric car is a perfect match for
Lamborghini because we leave untouched the two supercars, they will
be plug in hybrids and also the US.
Speaker 4 (12:28):
So I have to ask about China.
Speaker 1 (12:30):
I'm just so curious because for so many years that
was the most promising market for almost every automaker, and
it's been somewhat rough going in twenty twenty four for
many others. How important is China for Lamborghini to succeed
in and what are the prospects there what makes sense
(12:53):
for Lamborghini in China.
Speaker 6 (12:56):
So for me to get let's say China into the
right perspective, we have to see the China in terms
of car market is the biggest by far, so it's
more than twenty five percent of total sales globally is
the China market. But if we come to the luxury market,
(13:18):
it's less than ten percent, and for us it was
always a bit less than ten percent, so we were
never overexposed. And in China what happened in the last
years that there was the real estate crisis, which is
still ongoing. So let's say the luxury market was the
(13:40):
one suffering the most and it's still suffering.
Speaker 5 (13:43):
So for us, not being.
Speaker 6 (13:45):
That exposed, we had a quite easy task to reallocate
the cars to other markets. And this is what we
are still going. And this was let's say, the first
surprise has happened. But now it's three years in the
road in the market this week, so already in the budget,
(14:07):
when at the beginning of the year we have an
idea on where the market and where the cars are going.
If they're not going to China.
Speaker 1 (14:14):
Do you guys even need to be in China, particularly a.
Speaker 5 (14:18):
Big market also for automobile. At Borghini, we are not
yet to win a sprint race.
Speaker 6 (14:24):
We are here to stay and we always have a
load of strategy, and therefore China is and will stay
important for us.
Speaker 3 (14:34):
You know, over a third of your cars are sold
in the US, I believe last year, right, and almost
four thousand cars sold in the US.
Speaker 5 (14:44):
And three thousand in the US.
Speaker 3 (14:46):
Wasn't it like three thousand, seven hundred am I thinking
of North America, the entire.
Speaker 5 (14:52):
Reach and so including.
Speaker 6 (14:56):
And also then the rest of the.
Speaker 5 (15:02):
South American So he wrought three thousand to the exact
number I think give you the exact number was.
Speaker 6 (15:08):
Three thousand, two hundred and eighty four in the US.
Speaker 3 (15:12):
Wow, all right, so about a third, let's say almost
a third. But it was growth, It was growth, right.
Speaker 6 (15:20):
It was from three thousand to three thousand to one
at eighty four.
Speaker 3 (15:25):
So the thing is from twenty.
Speaker 5 (15:28):
Three to twenty four.
Speaker 3 (15:29):
I was surprised to see today. Somewhere I saw a story,
I guess you talked to other news organizations as well,
and somewhere I saw a story that tariffs could actually
hurt Lamborghini sales in the US. I figured, you know,
these products are in a pricing range that makes it
(15:50):
sort of negligible. But are you concerned that tariffs would
slow growth in the US and would you then make
up for it with more sales in Europe?
Speaker 6 (16:00):
What we said is that we're working on scenarios and
that we are waiting for the final, let's say, result
of what is going to be announced by the beginning
of April, and then we will act accordingly. But it's
a bit too earn it out to talk about the
(16:23):
type of decision we are going to take because.
Speaker 5 (16:26):
We're still working on the different scenarios.
Speaker 6 (16:29):
I never said more than this in all the interviews
I gave in the last weeks.
Speaker 1 (16:37):
It does seem like in this time every automaker is
really focused on staying extremely flexible and being very able
to pivot to respond to multiple factors in the market.
How nimble is Lamborghini? You guys are actually kind of
(16:58):
more of a conservative, Like you say, you take a
long view. How flexible are you to pivot if you
need to?
Speaker 5 (17:07):
So?
Speaker 6 (17:07):
One of the key elements is the length of the
other bank. No, we have one and a half years
waiting list. We are never running for the peaks.
Speaker 5 (17:17):
We look very carefully in the size of the market
each and every year. We don't We.
Speaker 6 (17:24):
Never try to be over exposed in one market because
maybe there is in the.
Speaker 5 (17:30):
Moment in time.
Speaker 6 (17:32):
Euphoria buying our types of course, so we are very
let's say, humble and conservative, as you said in the approach.
Speaker 5 (17:41):
And then when I look back since COVID.
Speaker 6 (17:45):
We had a lot of challenges no geo political ones
which affected the business regionally and also globally, but we
always were able to counter balance this with other markets
and also by seeing how we can with other suppliers,
(18:12):
let's say, out run the lack of supply. So until
now the things went into.
Speaker 5 (18:21):
The right way. But it's yeah that there is a
limit to everything.
Speaker 6 (18:25):
I think that our approach on exclusivity and scarcity is what,
also in the comparison with most of our competitors, was.
Speaker 5 (18:38):
Positively impact our business.
Speaker 1 (18:42):
How closely are you guys looking at not wanting to
push just straight volume? I mean ten thousand, I feel
like you've kind of hovered around ten thousand units for
the past few years. Is that the ceiling for you
or would you even go up higher?
Speaker 6 (19:00):
Opportunities for sure to grow a bit, But if we
grow is because the market demand is rising. At the
end of the day, they are more high net individuals
then a decade ago. But for the first time last
year the luxury market.
Speaker 5 (19:22):
Was decreasing.
Speaker 6 (19:23):
So after the let's say the big rise in the
years after COVID, for the first time, we reached a
plateau in twenty.
Speaker 5 (19:33):
Three and now I think we have an adjusted.
Speaker 6 (19:39):
Market which, in our opinion, if nothing big is going
to happen, will be stable over the next couple of years.
And we are against the trend because we are still growing.
So we have to observe this day is a limited
opportunity and if this is something which is not affecting,
(19:59):
then they years after we will catch them.
Speaker 1 (20:09):
Talk to us about technology a little bit in the cars,
and I ask, knowing that younger buyers seem to want
more tech and they want their car to be very intelligent, seamless,
you know, have AI capabilities. Are you seeing that with
(20:29):
your customers as well, that tech is extremely important inside
the vehicle or is it all still just about engine performance.
Speaker 5 (20:37):
No, it's very important.
Speaker 6 (20:39):
It's maybe less important than in the premium brands because
they are daily usable card, they are cars where you,
let's say, have also almost an office, or you have
such a use which is so extended.
Speaker 5 (20:54):
Over each and every day that you want to have all.
Speaker 6 (20:59):
The comfort you have also at home or in your office.
For us, it's a bit different because it's still about
enjoying the drive, but more and more we have to
include what for the premium brands is already let's say,
a daily.
Speaker 5 (21:21):
Usability, a daily mask.
Speaker 6 (21:23):
We're doing it and it's well accepted, but we have
to do also here the things at the right time.
We don't have to overload the cars because we also
have to see the weight, the cost and where we
put the money at the end of the day when
once we develop ours.
Speaker 7 (21:38):
By the way, I was asking, sure we have a
good advantage in this sense because we are part of
the Volks one group and here in terms of software development,
for sure against other competitors.
Speaker 6 (21:51):
Which might have the same size that we have. For sure,
we have a better access to this type of technology.
Speaker 3 (22:00):
I was asking benedetto Vina about this and he said,
no way, Jose, but would you consider differentiating yourself by
offering a car that's purely analog you know, I mean
a car with virtually no screens that has actual gauges
and you know, a stick shift, a handbrake. I'm sure
(22:23):
that in the in the million, two, three, four million
dollar stratosphere, you could sell a car like that.
Speaker 6 (22:31):
Well, you know, once when you decide to develop a car,
you have a platform and you have to decide whether
you're left or round. The platform never catches everything. So
for us, we have to find the perfect balance for
the majority of the customers. So technology is to the
(22:53):
utmost performance and it's about the combustion engines. It's about
the emotion which is giving you. But for sure a
time being, we are not planning to have stick shifts.
We are planning always to have what is possible in
terms of analog and analog.
Speaker 5 (23:13):
Feeling, also the touch. We have all the levers which.
Speaker 6 (23:16):
Are analog for example, so we have a mix between
screens and the click.
Speaker 5 (23:22):
And more and more. Also then we will have voice control.
Speaker 6 (23:24):
So this is a balance which is let's say, a
moving target and more and more. We have to adapt
ourselves and the development of the future to the future generations.
Speaker 5 (23:35):
But the analog feeling has to remain. And this is
what we think.
Speaker 6 (23:40):
Also by looking back in the development of other manufacturers
which we are going too much digital.
Speaker 5 (23:48):
Now they're rowing back and they're.
Speaker 6 (23:50):
Getting back to a lot of analog opportunities, and there
we have to have the right approach, and I think
that in our car is we still have this.
Speaker 3 (24:01):
By the way, I don't think so. My knee jerk
reaction because I'm an old man is to say I
don't want any screens or anything digital. But I just
spent a week in the Lamborghini Orus, and I thought
the execution of the interior was elegantly done. I mean,
it was really an enjoyable place to spend some time,
(24:23):
and everything was so intuitive and easy to use. So
I don't have a problem with the way you're doing it.
In fact, I think you're doing it better than any
of your competitors.
Speaker 5 (24:33):
But by the way, this is a huge problem, so
it's okay.
Speaker 3 (24:37):
By the way, Stephn, I was wondering, what do you
think you do better than anybody else? I mean I
was thinking about all of the The paint finish was
flawless on the Orus, and I love the way that
you execute the design. The interior looks like high quality
fit and finish. Obviously, the driving experience is fantastic across
(25:00):
the line. But what do you think Lamborghini does better
than anyone else?
Speaker 5 (25:05):
I can tell where we put our biggest effort.
Speaker 6 (25:09):
The biggest effort we put into the driving experience. So
performance and design are the two main pillars for us
to be successful.
Speaker 5 (25:19):
I think the design is always very remarkable and.
Speaker 6 (25:25):
Very distinctive and very clear, as recognizable as Lamborghini, and
this is what we are continuing to achieve, at least
in the years I'm in this company. We are doing
I think a pretty good job. And the next point
is the performance. How you translate performance, a new performance
(25:45):
into the Lamborghini by creating additional power output, better handling behavior,
and still this.
Speaker 5 (25:53):
Emotional behavior of the card.
Speaker 6 (25:55):
These are the two elements where we are, let's say, spend.
Speaker 5 (26:00):
The most of our ideas and research, and this.
Speaker 6 (26:06):
Will continue also in the future because this is what
we learned over the decades. This is what we are
continuing to do, and this is what the customers also
expect from us.
Speaker 5 (26:17):
If we are the best. It is not mean to decide.
Speaker 4 (26:21):
Yeah, well makes sense to me.
Speaker 1 (26:23):
I mean, I think it's interesting as we move forward
into the ev world. You're right, there is a space
for a very emotional combustion engine or even hybrid type
of car that is just completely different than the EV.
Speaker 6 (26:42):
Yes, but also the EV the future has to get
this emotionalization which today is missing in the electric Carris I.
Speaker 1 (26:51):
Was going to add, if that's possible, you think that's
possible that we have so I.
Speaker 6 (26:55):
Think that with the new software, with the the technology,
with the power output, a lot can be done.
Speaker 5 (27:04):
We are working on it. We are driving a lot of.
Speaker 6 (27:07):
Electric cars to see how they behave and how the
strategy is inside the cars to translate the electric behavior
and something typical for the different brands, and we are
looking into it and we will find out a way.
And we have now a four to five years time
and I think that this is what the time we need.
(27:29):
And I also think that not starting with the supercars,
but starting with the car which is yes, very performance oriented,
but differently a performance oriented like the works on Tibetario,
is the right approach.
Speaker 3 (27:41):
You have that big ball behind you. This is an
audio podcast, so people can't see, but you're sitting in
front of a huge a picture of a huge ball.
And I hope that Lamborghinis a race. I hope is
always going to be a living, breathing, kind of unpredictable animal.
That's the that's what you want from a Lamborghini. I
(28:02):
want to know. I have a few like weird questions. Colors.
I always think of Lamborghini as having some of the
most interesting and exciting colors, right, I like to see
a Lamborghini in an acid green or in almost like
an offensive orange, or you know, a purple that you
don't normally see a car. How do you choose your colors?
(28:24):
Which colors are the most popular for you? And how
do you go about the paint because I know you
used to do some of it in Necker Zoom and
some of it down the road, and now you've put
a new facility in Santa Agata.
Speaker 6 (28:39):
Oh you know that we don't have one color Lamborghini
which is the typical Lamborghini car. Yes, it was a
lot of plague and yellow. These were back in time,
let's say, the two colors which were ready finding Lamborghinian.
But when the Mura came out in the sixties, orange
green and yellow, those which were at that time almost
(29:03):
impossible to find another car. So this was a bit
the blueprint of what we did or what we're doing
since then. Today we have four hundred different colors you
can pick, but not only you can also create your
own color. We have colors which are combined, so we
have fading colors which are going from one type of
(29:24):
color into the next. So this is something which in
my opinion on Doamborghini does much more than all the
other manufacturers together. And yes, we have our paint job
which was very important for us as a game changer,
and we are very happy about this and we are
(29:45):
continuously helping new colors because the point is that if
we speak about colors, we also speak about individualization of
our cars.
Speaker 5 (29:55):
And the individualization is one of the things which the
customer us want the most.
Speaker 6 (30:01):
On top of what they choose as a type of car,
they want a car which is very unique. And here
the bottleneck is Lamborghini because the complexity and the development
of all the additional opportunities is not something which we
can do just by flipping a coin, but it's something
which takes time and also investments, and it has to
(30:24):
be then translated into something which is let's say, commercially
translate into a car which is coming out at the
end of the line, which is the car you wanted.
So it's a very complex world. We are constantly investing
more in this, and especially when we have limited numbers
because the segment is so small.
Speaker 5 (30:44):
This is a good and not.
Speaker 6 (30:47):
Only for the customers but also for us in terms
of margin.
Speaker 3 (30:50):
Is there one color though that people today?
Speaker 5 (30:54):
Yes, you ask me about the favors.
Speaker 8 (30:55):
I have to say inside all of this, the guitars,
which are the most taken is very black. These are
the oh no, guys have the highest amount in terms
of penetration.
Speaker 1 (31:10):
I want orange and green, and we need to get
some in like green and orange to get the numbers up.
Speaker 5 (31:15):
To something at least just to buy three one hit
one green and orange.
Speaker 3 (31:19):
Yes, yes, this is actually a car where I Lamborghini
is a brand where I think white sometimes works. So
you had the so my everyone knows my favorite car
is the Event to door, But you had this coontash
kind of anniversary model, the LPI eight hundred right that
you put out in I think twenty twenty two, and
(31:40):
it looks beautiful, beautiful and white. I was wondering how
that experience was for Lamborghini because I've thought, you know,
it would be cool to have a throwback Mura as well,
or you know some other you know Diablo. I know
Hannah loves the Diablo, so like, have you thought about
taking a piece that market before some other singer like
(32:03):
company you know, takes a piece of that from you.
Speaker 6 (32:06):
I hear message here because for me it was okay
to do the con touch it with.
Speaker 5 (32:15):
A great success.
Speaker 6 (32:16):
We sold the cars really in the blink of an eye.
And I also think it was the right approach because
the Mura is representing the DNA of the brand. In
terms of designs over the kept forward with the scissor doors,
with the layout, having the the gearbox in the middle
(32:38):
so in the tunnel between the driver and the passenger,
and having the mid twelfth also here and a typical
Lamborghini longitudinally mounted in the back of the car.
Speaker 5 (32:50):
So this was and sill is really big in terms.
Speaker 6 (32:54):
Of DNA and therefore were But I also have to
say that Bmborghini is forward thinking.
Speaker 5 (33:02):
So I always ask myself.
Speaker 6 (33:05):
And all my people we have to be innovators, not
only in terms of technology, but also in terms of design.
There must be some elements of ideas which are remembering
that we are a Burghini, but I asked.
Speaker 5 (33:19):
Them, when they look when a customer.
Speaker 6 (33:21):
Or a new kid is looking back to our period
of time in thirty years from now and they see
what we did the Mura at the yard blow and
so on and so forth, they would say they were
running out of ideas because they were not innovative anymore.
And this is what, in my opinion, is also the
key element not only for our bread but also of
(33:43):
our cars. So always to be trendsetters and ahead of
the time in every sense in terms of technology.
Speaker 5 (33:50):
But also especially in terms of design.
Speaker 3 (33:52):
All right, that was Stettnwinelmann. It's always it really is
great to talk to him. And I mean, I feel
like it's hard for me to be impartial. Everyone knows
I love Lamborghini's, but I do try and maintain I
do try and maintain some element of impartiality.
Speaker 1 (34:10):
Well, you know, the thing about Lamborghini's is they're definitely
not for everybody, and they're certainly not for every situation.
Speaker 4 (34:17):
You know, it's very.
Speaker 1 (34:19):
Strong flavor and sometimes you don't want that. And that's
that's not a quality or a character judgment. It's just
this is a very specific car specific tool that's not
really suitable for every situation.
Speaker 4 (34:32):
This is not a Swiss armon knife.
Speaker 3 (34:34):
The ones that are not for every situation, I like
them even better, right, I prefer those to the ones
like the ours. You could use it for almost anything,
and I don't like it as much as I like
an eventa door or a hurricane Sterrato. So in any case,
great to get some time with him. And I would
definitely take orange if I had to choose any Lamborghini color.
Speaker 4 (34:58):
Orange just then I still like white.
Speaker 3 (35:00):
So uh and the kon By the way, did you
google the kuontash when we were talking about it? The Couontash,
I think it's the uh two exactly, Yeah.
Speaker 4 (35:10):
Their reimagination of it. I remember seeing that car in
Tebble deeep.
Speaker 3 (35:15):
Yeah, the LPI eight hundred dash four. That's basically the
evented or rebodied as.
Speaker 1 (35:20):
A Cuontash, Right, And you know that car wasn't especially
welcomed universally when it came out. There were a plenty
of people, at least among the journalistic ranks, who thought,
why are we doing this? You know, it's it's just
rehashing old things.
Speaker 4 (35:41):
But I liked it. I had no problem with it.
It looked cool.
Speaker 3 (35:44):
I love it.
Speaker 4 (35:45):
Obviously, if one of.
Speaker 3 (35:46):
The one hundred and twelve people that got one doesn't
want it, I would be happy to take it.
Speaker 1 (35:51):
I mean, the cool thing would be to have both
the old one and the new one.
Speaker 3 (35:55):
I don't really like the old Coontash. I mean, it's
what no, I don't. I don't because I look at
it and it looks like that is an uncomfortable car
to sit in in a difficult car to drive. And
I could be wrong. I think some people who've had
them have said it's great fun to drive. I think
Doug DeMuro says.
Speaker 4 (36:15):
That you like you like driving tractors.
Speaker 3 (36:18):
But yeah, the team. The two people I know for
sure that have Kuontash's Matt Farrah and Doug DeMuro. And
I don't know how either one of those guys fits
in Lamborghini.
Speaker 4 (36:27):
Coon Tosh kind of roll in.
Speaker 5 (36:32):
Yo.
Speaker 3 (36:33):
I'm going to go to We have one more show
before I go, But next week I'm going to go
to Moto GP in Austin, and I've been watching. There
have been two race weekends thus far in the new season,
and I think there's some interesting parallels and real differences
between what's going on in Moto GP and Ferrari in
that the goat like arguably the greatest drivers of all
(37:00):
time have switched into a red brand. Right, So in
Formula one Lewis Hamilton, who I'm not saying he is
the best ever, but you could make an argument that
he is, okay.
Speaker 1 (37:13):
Besides Macher, but yes he is the best ever. I'm
counting championship okay, So.
Speaker 3 (37:20):
But he's driving a Ferrari, which is, you know, the
like ultimate brand I think in Formula one, Formula one
and in in Moto GP, Mark Marquez is could you
there's an argument that he's the greatest ever. A lot
of people will say Valentino Rossi and then there are
(37:41):
you know, jockam Augustini or whatever. They are older people
like Fongio type drivers that some would argue. But in
any case, you could make an argument. And he's driving
a Ducatti now, I mean he's driving a factory Ducatti now,
so those are the similarities. The difference is Mark Marquez
has absolutely dominated now that he's in a factory bike.
(38:04):
He's won the pole position both weekends, he's won the
sprint race both weekends, and he's won the main race
both weekends and he's made it look like child's play.
I mean, there was a point in the first race
where he was worried that his tire pressure would be
(38:25):
too low because they have regulations about the PSI. So
he let his brother pass him for a while for
like ten laps, and then nearing the end of the
race he pulled back ahead and won. And then I
don't really watch Formula One because to me, whenever I try,
it seems kind of boring. They don't pass enough.
Speaker 1 (38:48):
I don't like there are there are there. There is
certainly passing. I mean it's not as much passing as
Moto GP.
Speaker 3 (38:56):
But but but Hamilton has not apparently did not dominate
or really show serious promise.
Speaker 1 (39:05):
And this super young guy who replaced Hamilton at Mercedes
Antonelli did amazing. He got fourth, He just missed making
the podium and he, I believe, is eighteen, which is wild.
Speaker 4 (39:23):
So, you know, I like Hamilton.
Speaker 1 (39:27):
I think he's really a statesman for the sport, and
unfortunately maybe he's the elder statesman at this point. You know,
he's he's spoken until he's blue in the face about
how age isn't a thing for him.
Speaker 4 (39:43):
But this has got to be so disappointing.
Speaker 3 (39:46):
He's ten in this In fact, Lecleric is eighth. So
the other guy on the other side of the garage
is doing better. And my question, I don't know enough
about the sport to answer, but is this just growing pains?
Is he just getting used to the car and is
(40:07):
it going to be like, you know, next year he'll
dominate or at the end of this year he's going
to start like winning every race or going on the
podium every time, or all of those.
Speaker 1 (40:18):
I'm sure all of those things apply. But at the
end of the day, mister replacement, Antonelli also had to
get used to a new car and just completely completely
showed everyone. You know, at this point, this is not
a new sport to Lewis Hamilton. He's not new here.
(40:39):
He doesn't have a lot of time to get used
to the car and learn, you know.
Speaker 3 (40:46):
He but he has just as much time as Antonelli had, right.
Speaker 4 (40:50):
He has just as much time as anyone.
Speaker 1 (40:52):
Yeah, And it's like, think how much of a statement
it would have been if he came out and made
the podium in the first race for Ferrari. That would
have been just a resounding clap back to everyone who
said he's too old or whatever, and that didn't happen,
(41:15):
So I hope that you know, I.
Speaker 3 (41:20):
Mean to be to be to be fair to him.
Ferrari isn't the Ducati of Formula one, right, They're not
the dominant manufacturer. They haven't, they haven't. They haven't happened
for a long time, not recently. But the guy on
the other side of the garage did better, you know,
as you mentioned, his replacement Antonelli did a lot better.
(41:41):
Lance Stroll from Aston Martin did better. I mean, you know,
nine guys did better. So I don't know how to
read it, but does this.
Speaker 4 (41:51):
Make you curious to follow now?
Speaker 3 (41:54):
Like it does? It's interesting, you know, So Hamilton going
to Ferrari and not winning and not even doing as
well as his teammate and not doing as well as
Lance Stroll and an Aston Martin like that does kind
of make me want to watch to see what's going on.
Ken Ferrari pull a rabbit out of a hat? Can
can Lewis Hamilton come back?
Speaker 1 (42:14):
I like old guys, you know, champion, he's got it,
He's taken punches, he's got to get up one more time.
He's on the ropes he's on the mat. You know,
he's got to get up again one more time. If
he gets up one more time, he will be undisputed
the best ever.
Speaker 4 (42:32):
But he's got to get up.
Speaker 3 (42:34):
All right, Well, I look forward to seeing how that
turns out. I'm sure Mark Marquez is going to win
the sprint and the race in coda.
Speaker 4 (42:42):
How old is Mark Marquez?
Speaker 3 (42:44):
I think he's thirty two. Maybe he's not one of
the young kids. So as an example, when he came
to this team, and also when he came when he
went to the team he was racing for last year,
they suggested a thumb break because the kids all use
thumbreak because they don't use a foot break for the
rear rear end. And both times Marcus said, nope, I
(43:06):
can't get used to it. I'm not like, you know,
an eighteen year old in this sport. And wow, he
sticks with the tried and true foot break and he's
better at breaking than anyone else.
Speaker 1 (43:19):
So wow, here here's here's a sports related question. Have
you been watching the HBO documentary about the Celtics.
Speaker 3 (43:27):
I haven't, actually, And you know, the Celtics sold for
six point one billion dollars.
Speaker 4 (43:33):
I did not see that.
Speaker 3 (43:36):
Yeah, who bottom the most ever paid for? I think
that's the most ever paid for any sports team in America,
And it was Who's Who's the guy a private equity guy,
Bill Chisholm, William Chisholm, who founded STG Partners. But he's
(43:56):
like a Boston native, so cool that he got to
take a over.
Speaker 4 (44:01):
Wow, are you interested in basketball at all?
Speaker 6 (44:03):
Matter?
Speaker 3 (44:04):
No, you know what, I love going to basketball games.
In terms of live sports to watch, I think basketball
would be my favorite after racing. And when I was
a kid, I was a huge Lakers fan and I
hated the Celtics, but I haven't been watching lately. I
did live in Germany for many years, so there was
(44:25):
not much in NBA to watch there.
Speaker 4 (44:27):
Well, I thought it was pretty good.
Speaker 1 (44:29):
I actually my dad was a big Celtics fan during
the Larry Bird era, so you know that that team
does have a little log in my memory. It's good
if you do end up watching it.
Speaker 3 (44:46):
All right, Well, I think that does it for us
this week because we've started talking about basketball. But oh no,
We'll be back, same time, same place next week.
Speaker 1 (44:56):
I'm Matt Miller and I'm Hannah Elliott, and this is
Bloomberg
I'm Matt Miller and I'm Hannah Elliott and this is Hot.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
Pursuit, and uh, you are back state side, so I'm
back state side.
Speaker 3 (00:18):
I'm really excited to hear about your time in Rome,
mainly because I want to hear about Ola, but also
about the car that you were driving, the c LA,
and you also have wrangled us a pretty awesome interview
for today.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
Stefan Winkelman or Stephen Winkleman defending you say it the
German way.
Speaker 3 (00:35):
I do, And but he's actually from Italy.
Speaker 4 (00:38):
So Berlin. Well he's but also Berlin.
Speaker 3 (00:42):
Yeah, I'm wait, wait we so he grew up in Italy.
Maybe he was born at Charity and then he grew
up in Rome. Yeah, so he has a German sounding name,
but he's like actually an Italian dude. And of course
he's always worked with like German companies.
Speaker 1 (00:58):
Yes, and we should say he's the CEO and chairman
and CEO of Lamborghini and has been for many years now,
so he's really kind of indelible with the brand in
my mind at this point.
Speaker 3 (01:09):
He was there for a while and then he left
and then he came back. So there was uh Winkleman
in one point. Oh, and then when he left Domenicali
step Stephan Domenicali ran Lamborghini. Then now he's running F
one and then and Winkleman was running Bugatti.
Speaker 4 (01:26):
Well yeah, and.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
For a while, remember when Winkleman was running Bugatti and
Lamborghini at the same time.
Speaker 4 (01:32):
Yes, which seems like a lot.
Speaker 5 (01:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
Now he's just at Lamborghini again, which feels like really
his spiritual home.
Speaker 3 (01:40):
Exactly, And to me it feels like that too. But
I think he enjoyed this time at Bugatti, and I
got to drive some Bugattis with him at the track,
which was lucky. Pretty I've driven Lamborghini's with him at
the track and I've driven Bugatties with him at the track.
Speaker 4 (01:53):
So he was driving and you were in the passenger
seat both.
Speaker 3 (01:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (01:57):
How good a driver was he?
Speaker 3 (01:59):
He is? I think he's more concerned with the business,
of course than the but I mean he's you know,
obviously he's a better driver than I am, because I'm not.
Speaker 1 (02:09):
Yeah, I was just curious if he was like very aggressive,
like really trying to show off taking corners, or just
more relaxed.
Speaker 3 (02:17):
No. I think, well, when you're driving a Bugatti, certainly
your first order of business is not wrecking it.
Speaker 4 (02:25):
Yeah, don't wreck the car, you know, it's number one.
And that was the rubber down and the steal up.
Speaker 3 (02:29):
That was on a pretty tight track in Germany. The Lamborghini.
I went to drive the evented Door Svo with him
in Barcelona on the Formula one track, so there's a
lot more room to run off cool, although I didn't.
Speaker 5 (02:44):
Wreck that either.
Speaker 1 (02:46):
I've said this before, but I have this one great
memory of him. I was driving in Rome and I
saw him in a Bugatti with someone else who was
very beautiful, and it was just the classic Italian sighting.
Speaker 4 (03:03):
It was great.
Speaker 3 (03:04):
Probably his wife. She's very beautiful. She's like supermodel. Like
when you see her, you're like, oh my god, she's famous.
Speaker 1 (03:11):
But you like coler than me, Yes, I know, Yes,
I love a woman who's coller than me.
Speaker 5 (03:16):
All right.
Speaker 3 (03:16):
So and anyway, you were just in Rome. This is
not the time that you saw Stephan Winkleman, but you
were just in Rome with Ola Collenius, who runs the
Mercedes Benz group.
Speaker 1 (03:26):
Yes he's actually Swedish speaking of countries, but I would Yes,
I was with Ola and we took a drive in
the New CLA Sedan, which is Mercedes entry level sedan.
It's going to be the most affordable car that they
have debuted, and it's the most advanced, which I find
really interesting because they are choosing to develop all this
(03:50):
new technology and not put it in their top of
the line AMG stuff or S class or my box stuff.
They're putting truly this supercomputer that they've developed in house
into their entry level sedan, which is really interesting. I
think this is going This is them going straight for
Tesla and really trying to capture some more of the
(04:11):
market in China. But yes, I rode around with Ola
in Rome in the car and it was great. We
had a whole conversation. The car should start around fifty
thousand euros. They haven't finalized pricing for the US, but
kind of beautiful. I actually thought it might be a
(04:31):
little bit of a boring car because lately some of
the Mercedes have tended to just look like jellybeans. But
it actually had some great defining lines. The grills very cool,
the dashboard spans from pillar to pillar inside the vehicle,
and it's it is really well done. I have to say,
(04:52):
it doesn't feel entry level when you get inside.
Speaker 3 (04:55):
That's good to hear. And yeah, man, there's never been
a better time to go straight after Tesla, right exactly.
Speaker 4 (05:03):
I mean they couldn't have planned it better.
Speaker 3 (05:05):
There can be some some would be buyers that are
just not willing to fork out for a Tesla, But
that's cool that you that you liked it, and that
isn't a jelly being because I always think, or lately
I think of Mercedes they're like Moorish you know, palaces
where from the outside it's like mah, but then you
get inside and you're like, oh my god, this is awesome.
Speaker 1 (05:25):
Yeah, yeah, this is I think it's step. It's it's
a it's not it's not a massive change, but I
can feel a shift back. It's the ship is writing itself.
The ship is slowly turning. And the other interesting thing
about this CLA is they're introducing the electric version in
(05:45):
the US and then next year they're bringing a hybrid version,
which also is a little bit counterintuitive. I would think
you'd start with the hybrid and then follow up with
the EV, but they've they've flipped it, and this is
again a pivot. I think at one point they would
not have even bothered with bringing a hybrid version to
the US, but now they realize they do need to
(06:07):
still maintain combustion options for people.
Speaker 3 (06:11):
Right, there's like Scout, Scout did the same pivot, right, yes,
or we'll do the same pivot, you know, now that
you mention it. I'm looking at the CLA, the older CLA,
and I just had this BMW, which I liked very much.
But I've been noticing Audi's on the road that if
(06:31):
you take the badges off of sort of late model,
more entry level German cars, they all could look exactly
like one another. I mean, there's hardly a differentiator.
Speaker 1 (06:45):
I know, especially the big sedans and the subs.
Speaker 3 (06:49):
Take off the grill, take out the kidney beans or
the star or the four rings, and then you don't
know what you're looking at. It's all the same.
Speaker 1 (06:57):
It actually makes it pretty difficult to review them because,
like you say, you know, they're all owned by the
same three companies or the same two companies, depending on
what we're talking about, and there's a lot of part
sharing going on. So yeah, it's I do since that Automakers,
and you know, mister Winkleman says too, it's important to
(07:20):
differentiate yourself a bit, and I think they realize that
because everything just tends to blur and gloss over, and
that's not actually good in the long run for developing
brand loyalty, among other things.
Speaker 3 (07:34):
All right, well, let's get into our interview with Stephan Winklman,
the CEO of Lamborghini.
Speaker 4 (07:41):
It's such an.
Speaker 1 (07:42):
Honor as always to talk with you, mister Stephen Winkleman,
the chairman and CEO of Automobile Lamborghini, and you come
with happy tidings. I know you guys have just released
earnings for twenty twenty four. Can you just give us
a top overview. It looks like you have a very
strong year.
Speaker 5 (08:02):
Yes, in fact, today is a very good day.
Speaker 6 (08:05):
We are announcing again a record year for the year
twenty twenty four.
Speaker 5 (08:11):
The turnover for the first time is exceeding that.
Speaker 6 (08:14):
Three billion, with approximately three point one billion euro with
an operating profit of eight hundred and thirty five Also,
this is a record high. And also the deliveries to
customers with ten thousand, six hundred and eighty seven cars
again something incredible.
Speaker 5 (08:31):
And also your record high.
Speaker 6 (08:34):
The ROS is at twenty seven percent, so we are
well established and this again is not something we are
doing to have a record or running for the peaks.
We are doing it by having a solid order bank,
which time being is lasting one and a half years.
Speaker 5 (08:49):
So exclusivity scarcity is the talk of the day.
Speaker 6 (08:53):
And it's also about all the lineup renewed and this
is that's a good sign for the future of LOM
Can I ask?
Speaker 3 (09:01):
I mean, I just want to ask about the breakdown.
So ten thousand, more than ten thousand cars, and how
many of those are you know, Revuelt's and how many
are uruses?
Speaker 6 (09:15):
We have about the US is a bit more than
five thousands, so around five thousand, five hundred. We have
around fourteen hundred reuelto and the rest is Hurakan So
we have more les.
Speaker 5 (09:29):
Fifty to fifty between the two.
Speaker 6 (09:34):
Let's say type of cars, the supercars on one end
side and the Urus on the other side.
Speaker 4 (09:39):
I think that's so interesting.
Speaker 1 (09:40):
Can you talk a little bit about the breakdown since
we're talking about breakdowns of hybrids versus combustion engines. Of course,
everyone last year seemed to be a little surprised evs
weren't selling more. You guys have said you're really going
to stay in the hybrid and combustion range for a while.
Speaker 4 (10:01):
What's your update with that.
Speaker 5 (10:03):
I think that.
Speaker 6 (10:06):
Now speaking the twentieth March, twentieth of March and twenty five,
the decisions we talk in the last years were the
right ones because we said, we don't need to be
the first ones to do the things, but when we
do it, we have to do it right, and we
have to do and we have to keep the promise
of being more performing and less emitting your two emissions.
(10:30):
With all the three cars we are doing it, and
the customer reception is very good.
Speaker 5 (10:36):
We have.
Speaker 6 (10:39):
Done what, in my opinion, was the right approach, not
to courageous, but the right steps at the right time.
The next step would be by the end of the
decade we have an additional card, which would be then
the first full electric car, and I think by that
time it's okay we have three plug in hybrids so
(11:02):
with strong combustion engines like the BE twelve and the
V eights, and one additional car, which then is a
good roundup of our product range.
Speaker 3 (11:15):
By the way, with the fully electric vehicle be one
of the supercars or do you think you could put
out a fully electric suv first?
Speaker 6 (11:24):
No, the idea is to have something which is neither
nor no. We will not go into the supercars and
not an suv. We are planning what is missing in
our lineup, which is a gt A two plus two,
which is the classic no car which every exclusive or
luxury manufacturer head in his lineup, which we had in
(11:47):
the sixties and seventies. And I think that this is
a good head on for our car company.
Speaker 5 (11:52):
You have to see that in average.
Speaker 6 (11:54):
Our customers have around ten cars, so it's never the
first card they are buying as a Lamborghini, so they
have a multiple choice to drive the right car in
the right moment during the week or the months. And
therefore we think that we have this new body style
(12:17):
as the first electric car is a perfect match for
Lamborghini because we leave untouched the two supercars, they will
be plug in hybrids and also the US.
Speaker 4 (12:28):
So I have to ask about China.
Speaker 1 (12:30):
I'm just so curious because for so many years that
was the most promising market for almost every automaker, and
it's been somewhat rough going in twenty twenty four for
many others. How important is China for Lamborghini to succeed
in and what are the prospects there what makes sense
(12:53):
for Lamborghini in China.
Speaker 6 (12:56):
So for me to get let's say China into the
right perspective, we have to see the China in terms
of car market is the biggest by far, so it's
more than twenty five percent of total sales globally is
the China market. But if we come to the luxury market,
(13:18):
it's less than ten percent, and for us it was
always a bit less than ten percent, so we were
never overexposed. And in China what happened in the last
years that there was the real estate crisis, which is
still ongoing. So let's say the luxury market was the
(13:40):
one suffering the most and it's still suffering.
Speaker 5 (13:43):
So for us, not being.
Speaker 6 (13:45):
That exposed, we had a quite easy task to reallocate
the cars to other markets. And this is what we
are still going. And this was let's say, the first
surprise has happened. But now it's three years in the
road in the market this week, so already in the budget,
(14:07):
when at the beginning of the year we have an
idea on where the market and where the cars are going.
If they're not going to China.
Speaker 1 (14:14):
Do you guys even need to be in China, particularly a.
Speaker 5 (14:18):
Big market also for automobile. At Borghini, we are not
yet to win a sprint race.
Speaker 6 (14:24):
We are here to stay and we always have a
load of strategy, and therefore China is and will stay
important for us.
Speaker 3 (14:34):
You know, over a third of your cars are sold
in the US, I believe last year, right, and almost
four thousand cars sold in the US.
Speaker 5 (14:44):
And three thousand in the US.
Speaker 3 (14:46):
Wasn't it like three thousand, seven hundred am I thinking
of North America, the entire.
Speaker 5 (14:52):
Reach and so including.
Speaker 6 (14:56):
And also then the rest of the.
Speaker 5 (15:02):
South American So he wrought three thousand to the exact
number I think give you the exact number was.
Speaker 6 (15:08):
Three thousand, two hundred and eighty four in the US.
Speaker 3 (15:12):
Wow, all right, so about a third, let's say almost
a third. But it was growth, It was growth, right.
Speaker 6 (15:20):
It was from three thousand to three thousand to one
at eighty four.
Speaker 3 (15:25):
So the thing is from twenty.
Speaker 5 (15:28):
Three to twenty four.
Speaker 3 (15:29):
I was surprised to see today. Somewhere I saw a story,
I guess you talked to other news organizations as well,
and somewhere I saw a story that tariffs could actually
hurt Lamborghini sales in the US. I figured, you know,
these products are in a pricing range that makes it
(15:50):
sort of negligible. But are you concerned that tariffs would
slow growth in the US and would you then make
up for it with more sales in Europe?
Speaker 6 (16:00):
What we said is that we're working on scenarios and
that we are waiting for the final, let's say, result
of what is going to be announced by the beginning
of April, and then we will act accordingly. But it's
a bit too earn it out to talk about the
(16:23):
type of decision we are going to take because.
Speaker 5 (16:26):
We're still working on the different scenarios.
Speaker 6 (16:29):
I never said more than this in all the interviews
I gave in the last weeks.
Speaker 1 (16:37):
It does seem like in this time every automaker is
really focused on staying extremely flexible and being very able
to pivot to respond to multiple factors in the market.
How nimble is Lamborghini? You guys are actually kind of
(16:58):
more of a conservative, Like you say, you take a
long view. How flexible are you to pivot if you
need to?
Speaker 5 (17:07):
So?
Speaker 6 (17:07):
One of the key elements is the length of the
other bank. No, we have one and a half years
waiting list. We are never running for the peaks.
Speaker 5 (17:17):
We look very carefully in the size of the market
each and every year. We don't We.
Speaker 6 (17:24):
Never try to be over exposed in one market because
maybe there is in the.
Speaker 5 (17:30):
Moment in time.
Speaker 6 (17:32):
Euphoria buying our types of course, so we are very
let's say, humble and conservative, as you said in the approach.
Speaker 5 (17:41):
And then when I look back since COVID.
Speaker 6 (17:45):
We had a lot of challenges no geo political ones
which affected the business regionally and also globally, but we
always were able to counter balance this with other markets
and also by seeing how we can with other suppliers,
(18:12):
let's say, out run the lack of supply. So until
now the things went into.
Speaker 5 (18:21):
The right way. But it's yeah that there is a
limit to everything.
Speaker 6 (18:25):
I think that our approach on exclusivity and scarcity is what,
also in the comparison with most of our competitors, was.
Speaker 5 (18:38):
Positively impact our business.
Speaker 1 (18:42):
How closely are you guys looking at not wanting to
push just straight volume? I mean ten thousand, I feel
like you've kind of hovered around ten thousand units for
the past few years. Is that the ceiling for you
or would you even go up higher?
Speaker 6 (19:00):
Opportunities for sure to grow a bit, But if we
grow is because the market demand is rising. At the
end of the day, they are more high net individuals
then a decade ago. But for the first time last
year the luxury market.
Speaker 5 (19:22):
Was decreasing.
Speaker 6 (19:23):
So after the let's say the big rise in the
years after COVID, for the first time, we reached a
plateau in twenty.
Speaker 5 (19:33):
Three and now I think we have an adjusted.
Speaker 6 (19:39):
Market which, in our opinion, if nothing big is going
to happen, will be stable over the next couple of years.
And we are against the trend because we are still growing.
So we have to observe this day is a limited
opportunity and if this is something which is not affecting,
(19:59):
then they years after we will catch them.
Speaker 1 (20:09):
Talk to us about technology a little bit in the cars,
and I ask, knowing that younger buyers seem to want
more tech and they want their car to be very intelligent, seamless,
you know, have AI capabilities. Are you seeing that with
(20:29):
your customers as well, that tech is extremely important inside
the vehicle or is it all still just about engine performance.
Speaker 5 (20:37):
No, it's very important.
Speaker 6 (20:39):
It's maybe less important than in the premium brands because
they are daily usable card, they are cars where you,
let's say, have also almost an office, or you have
such a use which is so extended.
Speaker 5 (20:54):
Over each and every day that you want to have all.
Speaker 6 (20:59):
The comfort you have also at home or in your office.
For us, it's a bit different because it's still about
enjoying the drive, but more and more we have to
include what for the premium brands is already let's say,
a daily.
Speaker 5 (21:21):
Usability, a daily mask.
Speaker 6 (21:23):
We're doing it and it's well accepted, but we have
to do also here the things at the right time.
We don't have to overload the cars because we also
have to see the weight, the cost and where we
put the money at the end of the day when
once we develop ours.
Speaker 7 (21:38):
By the way, I was asking, sure we have a
good advantage in this sense because we are part of
the Volks one group and here in terms of software development,
for sure against other competitors.
Speaker 6 (21:51):
Which might have the same size that we have. For sure,
we have a better access to this type of technology.
Speaker 3 (22:00):
I was asking benedetto Vina about this and he said,
no way, Jose, but would you consider differentiating yourself by
offering a car that's purely analog you know, I mean
a car with virtually no screens that has actual gauges
and you know, a stick shift, a handbrake. I'm sure
(22:23):
that in the in the million, two, three, four million
dollar stratosphere, you could sell a car like that.
Speaker 6 (22:31):
Well, you know, once when you decide to develop a car,
you have a platform and you have to decide whether
you're left or round. The platform never catches everything. So
for us, we have to find the perfect balance for
the majority of the customers. So technology is to the
(22:53):
utmost performance and it's about the combustion engines. It's about
the emotion which is giving you. But for sure a
time being, we are not planning to have stick shifts.
We are planning always to have what is possible in
terms of analog and analog.
Speaker 5 (23:13):
Feeling, also the touch. We have all the levers which.
Speaker 6 (23:16):
Are analog for example, so we have a mix between
screens and the click.
Speaker 5 (23:22):
And more and more. Also then we will have voice control.
Speaker 6 (23:24):
So this is a balance which is let's say, a
moving target and more and more. We have to adapt
ourselves and the development of the future to the future generations.
Speaker 5 (23:35):
But the analog feeling has to remain. And this is
what we think.
Speaker 6 (23:40):
Also by looking back in the development of other manufacturers
which we are going too much digital.
Speaker 5 (23:48):
Now they're rowing back and they're.
Speaker 6 (23:50):
Getting back to a lot of analog opportunities, and there
we have to have the right approach, and I think
that in our car is we still have this.
Speaker 3 (24:01):
By the way, I don't think so. My knee jerk
reaction because I'm an old man is to say I
don't want any screens or anything digital. But I just
spent a week in the Lamborghini Orus, and I thought
the execution of the interior was elegantly done. I mean,
it was really an enjoyable place to spend some time,
(24:23):
and everything was so intuitive and easy to use. So
I don't have a problem with the way you're doing it.
In fact, I think you're doing it better than any
of your competitors.
Speaker 5 (24:33):
But by the way, this is a huge problem, so
it's okay.
Speaker 3 (24:37):
By the way, Stephn, I was wondering, what do you
think you do better than anybody else? I mean I
was thinking about all of the The paint finish was
flawless on the Orus, and I love the way that
you execute the design. The interior looks like high quality
fit and finish. Obviously, the driving experience is fantastic across
(25:00):
the line. But what do you think Lamborghini does better
than anyone else?
Speaker 5 (25:05):
I can tell where we put our biggest effort.
Speaker 6 (25:09):
The biggest effort we put into the driving experience. So
performance and design are the two main pillars for us
to be successful.
Speaker 5 (25:19):
I think the design is always very remarkable and.
Speaker 6 (25:25):
Very distinctive and very clear, as recognizable as Lamborghini, and
this is what we are continuing to achieve, at least
in the years I'm in this company. We are doing
I think a pretty good job. And the next point
is the performance. How you translate performance, a new performance
(25:45):
into the Lamborghini by creating additional power output, better handling behavior,
and still this.
Speaker 5 (25:53):
Emotional behavior of the card.
Speaker 6 (25:55):
These are the two elements where we are, let's say, spend.
Speaker 5 (26:00):
The most of our ideas and research, and this.
Speaker 6 (26:06):
Will continue also in the future because this is what
we learned over the decades. This is what we are
continuing to do, and this is what the customers also
expect from us.
Speaker 5 (26:17):
If we are the best. It is not mean to decide.
Speaker 4 (26:21):
Yeah, well makes sense to me.
Speaker 1 (26:23):
I mean, I think it's interesting as we move forward
into the ev world. You're right, there is a space
for a very emotional combustion engine or even hybrid type
of car that is just completely different than the EV.
Speaker 6 (26:42):
Yes, but also the EV the future has to get
this emotionalization which today is missing in the electric Carris I.
Speaker 1 (26:51):
Was going to add, if that's possible, you think that's
possible that we have so I.
Speaker 6 (26:55):
Think that with the new software, with the the technology,
with the power output, a lot can be done.
Speaker 5 (27:04):
We are working on it. We are driving a lot of.
Speaker 6 (27:07):
Electric cars to see how they behave and how the
strategy is inside the cars to translate the electric behavior
and something typical for the different brands, and we are
looking into it and we will find out a way.
And we have now a four to five years time
and I think that this is what the time we need.
(27:29):
And I also think that not starting with the supercars,
but starting with the car which is yes, very performance oriented,
but differently a performance oriented like the works on Tibetario,
is the right approach.
Speaker 3 (27:41):
You have that big ball behind you. This is an
audio podcast, so people can't see, but you're sitting in
front of a huge a picture of a huge ball.
And I hope that Lamborghinis a race. I hope is
always going to be a living, breathing, kind of unpredictable animal.
That's the that's what you want from a Lamborghini. I
(28:02):
want to know. I have a few like weird questions. Colors.
I always think of Lamborghini as having some of the
most interesting and exciting colors, right, I like to see
a Lamborghini in an acid green or in almost like
an offensive orange, or you know, a purple that you
don't normally see a car. How do you choose your colors?
(28:24):
Which colors are the most popular for you? And how
do you go about the paint because I know you
used to do some of it in Necker Zoom and
some of it down the road, and now you've put
a new facility in Santa Agata.
Speaker 6 (28:39):
Oh you know that we don't have one color Lamborghini
which is the typical Lamborghini car. Yes, it was a
lot of plague and yellow. These were back in time,
let's say, the two colors which were ready finding Lamborghinian.
But when the Mura came out in the sixties, orange
green and yellow, those which were at that time almost
(29:03):
impossible to find another car. So this was a bit
the blueprint of what we did or what we're doing
since then. Today we have four hundred different colors you
can pick, but not only you can also create your
own color. We have colors which are combined, so we
have fading colors which are going from one type of
(29:24):
color into the next. So this is something which in
my opinion on Doamborghini does much more than all the
other manufacturers together. And yes, we have our paint job
which was very important for us as a game changer,
and we are very happy about this and we are
(29:45):
continuously helping new colors because the point is that if
we speak about colors, we also speak about individualization of
our cars.
Speaker 5 (29:55):
And the individualization is one of the things which the
customer us want the most.
Speaker 6 (30:01):
On top of what they choose as a type of car,
they want a car which is very unique. And here
the bottleneck is Lamborghini because the complexity and the development
of all the additional opportunities is not something which we
can do just by flipping a coin, but it's something
which takes time and also investments, and it has to
(30:24):
be then translated into something which is let's say, commercially
translate into a car which is coming out at the
end of the line, which is the car you wanted.
So it's a very complex world. We are constantly investing
more in this, and especially when we have limited numbers
because the segment is so small.
Speaker 5 (30:44):
This is a good and not.
Speaker 6 (30:47):
Only for the customers but also for us in terms
of margin.
Speaker 3 (30:50):
Is there one color though that people today?
Speaker 5 (30:54):
Yes, you ask me about the favors.
Speaker 8 (30:55):
I have to say inside all of this, the guitars,
which are the most taken is very black. These are
the oh no, guys have the highest amount in terms
of penetration.
Speaker 1 (31:10):
I want orange and green, and we need to get
some in like green and orange to get the numbers up.
Speaker 5 (31:15):
To something at least just to buy three one hit
one green and orange.
Speaker 3 (31:19):
Yes, yes, this is actually a car where I Lamborghini
is a brand where I think white sometimes works. So
you had the so my everyone knows my favorite car
is the Event to door, But you had this coontash
kind of anniversary model, the LPI eight hundred right that
you put out in I think twenty twenty two, and
(31:40):
it looks beautiful, beautiful and white. I was wondering how
that experience was for Lamborghini because I've thought, you know,
it would be cool to have a throwback Mura as well,
or you know some other you know Diablo. I know
Hannah loves the Diablo, so like, have you thought about
taking a piece that market before some other singer like
(32:03):
company you know, takes a piece of that from you.
Speaker 6 (32:06):
I hear message here because for me it was okay
to do the con touch it with.
Speaker 5 (32:15):
A great success.
Speaker 6 (32:16):
We sold the cars really in the blink of an eye.
And I also think it was the right approach because
the Mura is representing the DNA of the brand. In
terms of designs over the kept forward with the scissor doors,
with the layout, having the the gearbox in the middle
(32:38):
so in the tunnel between the driver and the passenger,
and having the mid twelfth also here and a typical
Lamborghini longitudinally mounted in the back of the car.
Speaker 5 (32:50):
So this was and sill is really big in terms.
Speaker 6 (32:54):
Of DNA and therefore were But I also have to
say that Bmborghini is forward thinking.
Speaker 5 (33:02):
So I always ask myself.
Speaker 6 (33:05):
And all my people we have to be innovators, not
only in terms of technology, but also in terms of design.
There must be some elements of ideas which are remembering
that we are a Burghini, but I asked.
Speaker 5 (33:19):
Them, when they look when a customer.
Speaker 6 (33:21):
Or a new kid is looking back to our period
of time in thirty years from now and they see
what we did the Mura at the yard blow and
so on and so forth, they would say they were
running out of ideas because they were not innovative anymore.
And this is what, in my opinion, is also the
key element not only for our bread but also of
(33:43):
our cars. So always to be trendsetters and ahead of
the time in every sense in terms of technology.
Speaker 5 (33:50):
But also especially in terms of design.
Speaker 3 (33:52):
All right, that was Stettnwinelmann. It's always it really is
great to talk to him. And I mean, I feel
like it's hard for me to be impartial. Everyone knows
I love Lamborghini's, but I do try and maintain I
do try and maintain some element of impartiality.
Speaker 1 (34:10):
Well, you know, the thing about Lamborghini's is they're definitely
not for everybody, and they're certainly not for every situation.
Speaker 4 (34:17):
You know, it's very.
Speaker 1 (34:19):
Strong flavor and sometimes you don't want that. And that's
that's not a quality or a character judgment. It's just
this is a very specific car specific tool that's not
really suitable for every situation.
Speaker 4 (34:32):
This is not a Swiss armon knife.
Speaker 3 (34:34):
The ones that are not for every situation, I like
them even better, right, I prefer those to the ones
like the ours. You could use it for almost anything,
and I don't like it as much as I like
an eventa door or a hurricane Sterrato. So in any case,
great to get some time with him. And I would
definitely take orange if I had to choose any Lamborghini color.
Speaker 4 (34:58):
Orange just then I still like white.
Speaker 3 (35:00):
So uh and the kon By the way, did you
google the kuontash when we were talking about it? The Couontash,
I think it's the uh two exactly, Yeah.
Speaker 4 (35:10):
Their reimagination of it. I remember seeing that car in
Tebble deeep.
Speaker 3 (35:15):
Yeah, the LPI eight hundred dash four. That's basically the
evented or rebodied as.
Speaker 1 (35:20):
A Cuontash, Right, And you know that car wasn't especially
welcomed universally when it came out. There were a plenty
of people, at least among the journalistic ranks, who thought,
why are we doing this? You know, it's it's just
rehashing old things.
Speaker 4 (35:41):
But I liked it. I had no problem with it.
It looked cool.
Speaker 3 (35:44):
I love it.
Speaker 4 (35:45):
Obviously, if one of.
Speaker 3 (35:46):
The one hundred and twelve people that got one doesn't
want it, I would be happy to take it.
Speaker 1 (35:51):
I mean, the cool thing would be to have both
the old one and the new one.
Speaker 3 (35:55):
I don't really like the old Coontash. I mean, it's
what no, I don't. I don't because I look at
it and it looks like that is an uncomfortable car
to sit in in a difficult car to drive. And
I could be wrong. I think some people who've had
them have said it's great fun to drive. I think
Doug DeMuro says.
Speaker 4 (36:15):
That you like you like driving tractors.
Speaker 3 (36:18):
But yeah, the team. The two people I know for
sure that have Kuontash's Matt Farrah and Doug DeMuro. And
I don't know how either one of those guys fits
in Lamborghini.
Speaker 4 (36:27):
Coon Tosh kind of roll in.
Speaker 5 (36:32):
Yo.
Speaker 3 (36:33):
I'm going to go to We have one more show
before I go, But next week I'm going to go
to Moto GP in Austin, and I've been watching. There
have been two race weekends thus far in the new season,
and I think there's some interesting parallels and real differences
between what's going on in Moto GP and Ferrari in
that the goat like arguably the greatest drivers of all
(37:00):
time have switched into a red brand. Right, So in
Formula one Lewis Hamilton, who I'm not saying he is
the best ever, but you could make an argument that
he is, okay.
Speaker 1 (37:13):
Besides Macher, but yes he is the best ever. I'm
counting championship okay, So.
Speaker 3 (37:20):
But he's driving a Ferrari, which is, you know, the
like ultimate brand I think in Formula one, Formula one
and in in Moto GP, Mark Marquez is could you
there's an argument that he's the greatest ever. A lot
of people will say Valentino Rossi and then there are
(37:41):
you know, jockam Augustini or whatever. They are older people
like Fongio type drivers that some would argue. But in
any case, you could make an argument. And he's driving
a Ducatti now, I mean he's driving a factory Ducatti now,
so those are the similarities. The difference is Mark Marquez
has absolutely dominated now that he's in a factory bike.
(38:04):
He's won the pole position both weekends, he's won the
sprint race both weekends, and he's won the main race
both weekends and he's made it look like child's play.
I mean, there was a point in the first race
where he was worried that his tire pressure would be
(38:25):
too low because they have regulations about the PSI. So
he let his brother pass him for a while for
like ten laps, and then nearing the end of the
race he pulled back ahead and won. And then I
don't really watch Formula One because to me, whenever I try,
it seems kind of boring. They don't pass enough.
Speaker 1 (38:48):
I don't like there are there are there. There is
certainly passing. I mean it's not as much passing as
Moto GP.
Speaker 3 (38:56):
But but but Hamilton has not apparently did not dominate
or really show serious promise.
Speaker 1 (39:05):
And this super young guy who replaced Hamilton at Mercedes
Antonelli did amazing. He got fourth, He just missed making
the podium and he, I believe, is eighteen, which is wild.
Speaker 4 (39:23):
So, you know, I like Hamilton.
Speaker 1 (39:27):
I think he's really a statesman for the sport, and
unfortunately maybe he's the elder statesman at this point. You know,
he's he's spoken until he's blue in the face about
how age isn't a thing for him.
Speaker 4 (39:43):
But this has got to be so disappointing.
Speaker 3 (39:46):
He's ten in this In fact, Lecleric is eighth. So
the other guy on the other side of the garage
is doing better. And my question, I don't know enough
about the sport to answer, but is this just growing pains?
Is he just getting used to the car and is
(40:07):
it going to be like, you know, next year he'll
dominate or at the end of this year he's going
to start like winning every race or going on the
podium every time, or all of those.
Speaker 1 (40:18):
I'm sure all of those things apply. But at the
end of the day, mister replacement, Antonelli also had to
get used to a new car and just completely completely
showed everyone. You know, at this point, this is not
a new sport to Lewis Hamilton. He's not new here.
(40:39):
He doesn't have a lot of time to get used
to the car and learn, you know.
Speaker 3 (40:46):
He but he has just as much time as Antonelli had, right.
Speaker 4 (40:50):
He has just as much time as anyone.
Speaker 1 (40:52):
Yeah, And it's like, think how much of a statement
it would have been if he came out and made
the podium in the first race for Ferrari. That would
have been just a resounding clap back to everyone who
said he's too old or whatever, and that didn't happen,
(41:15):
So I hope that you know, I.
Speaker 3 (41:20):
Mean to be to be to be fair to him.
Ferrari isn't the Ducati of Formula one, right, They're not
the dominant manufacturer. They haven't, they haven't. They haven't happened
for a long time, not recently. But the guy on
the other side of the garage did better, you know,
as you mentioned, his replacement Antonelli did a lot better.
(41:41):
Lance Stroll from Aston Martin did better. I mean, you know,
nine guys did better. So I don't know how to
read it, but does this.
Speaker 4 (41:51):
Make you curious to follow now?
Speaker 3 (41:54):
Like it does? It's interesting, you know, So Hamilton going
to Ferrari and not winning and not even doing as
well as his teammate and not doing as well as
Lance Stroll and an Aston Martin like that does kind
of make me want to watch to see what's going on.
Ken Ferrari pull a rabbit out of a hat? Can
can Lewis Hamilton come back?
Speaker 1 (42:14):
I like old guys, you know, champion, he's got it,
He's taken punches, he's got to get up one more time.
He's on the ropes he's on the mat. You know,
he's got to get up again one more time. If
he gets up one more time, he will be undisputed
the best ever.
Speaker 4 (42:32):
But he's got to get up.
Speaker 3 (42:34):
All right, Well, I look forward to seeing how that
turns out. I'm sure Mark Marquez is going to win
the sprint and the race in coda.
Speaker 4 (42:42):
How old is Mark Marquez?
Speaker 3 (42:44):
I think he's thirty two. Maybe he's not one of
the young kids. So as an example, when he came
to this team, and also when he came when he
went to the team he was racing for last year,
they suggested a thumb break because the kids all use
thumbreak because they don't use a foot break for the
rear rear end. And both times Marcus said, nope, I
(43:06):
can't get used to it. I'm not like, you know,
an eighteen year old in this sport. And wow, he
sticks with the tried and true foot break and he's
better at breaking than anyone else.
Speaker 1 (43:19):
So wow, here here's here's a sports related question. Have
you been watching the HBO documentary about the Celtics.
Speaker 3 (43:27):
I haven't, actually, And you know, the Celtics sold for
six point one billion dollars.
Speaker 4 (43:33):
I did not see that.
Speaker 3 (43:36):
Yeah, who bottom the most ever paid for? I think
that's the most ever paid for any sports team in America,
And it was Who's Who's the guy a private equity guy,
Bill Chisholm, William Chisholm, who founded STG Partners. But he's
(43:56):
like a Boston native, so cool that he got to
take a over.
Speaker 4 (44:01):
Wow, are you interested in basketball at all?
Speaker 6 (44:03):
Matter?
Speaker 3 (44:04):
No, you know what, I love going to basketball games.
In terms of live sports to watch, I think basketball
would be my favorite after racing. And when I was
a kid, I was a huge Lakers fan and I
hated the Celtics, but I haven't been watching lately. I
did live in Germany for many years, so there was
(44:25):
not much in NBA to watch there.
Speaker 4 (44:27):
Well, I thought it was pretty good.
Speaker 1 (44:29):
I actually my dad was a big Celtics fan during
the Larry Bird era, so you know that that team
does have a little log in my memory. It's good
if you do end up watching it.
Speaker 3 (44:46):
All right, Well, I think that does it for us
this week because we've started talking about basketball. But oh no,
We'll be back, same time, same place next week.
Speaker 1 (44:56):
I'm Matt Miller and I'm Hannah Elliott, and this is
Bloomberg
Hosts And Creators
Hannah Elliott
Matt Miller
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