August 15, 2025 • 48 mins
On a special edition of Hot Pursuit recorded live, Hannah joins from Monterey from the passenger seat of a Bentley Bentayga SUV and is joined by Rimac CEO and Founder Mate Rimac to talk about the journey of starting his eponymous company in Croatia to becoming CEO of Bugatti Rimac and beyond.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio News.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
I'm Matt Miller and I'm Hannah Elliott, and this is
Hot Pursuit.
Speaker 3 (00:12):
All right, this is a pretty exciting day. I mean,
I'm super pumped because you are at the Quail in Monterey.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
I'm at the Quail in Monterey. I've been here for
a few hours and I'm actually currently sat in a
Bentley Bentega SUV for the purposes of this podcast that
has been very nicely loan to us. And it's fun
because I'm sitting here in the front and watching all
of the cars roll in for the day, and it's
basically a car It's like a car show. I mean,
(00:41):
in terms of new cars, the debuts here are just
going to be phenomenal.
Speaker 3 (00:45):
Yeah, let's walk through those a little bit. Because you
sent me a list earlier. I initially wanted to talk
to some guys from Ring Brothers. They are a resto
mod company. They usually do like sixties era muscle cars,
but at the Quail doing I think nineteen seventy one
Aston Martin. But they're doing it. They're unveiling it right now,
(01:06):
and so they couldn't join us for this, and but
you sent me a list of like a ton of
other reveals or you know, presentations that are gonna happen.
What else is coming up?
Speaker 2 (01:17):
So I have to say there are some surprises here.
For instance, Corvette will be showing two new concepts of
future cars. We talked about that a little bit last
week with Mark Royce, but I am I've seen the
cars and by the time this publishes, I guess we
can talk about it. Yeah, there's two thousand horsepower electric
(01:39):
and ones a hybrid ones an electric corvettes that are
called the CX concept. Yeah, yeah, I mean.
Speaker 3 (01:47):
They're both two thousand horsepower. Yes, that's insane. But by
the way, that actually reminds me we can go ahead
and tease the guests we have coming up. Because speaking
of electric hypercars, Mate Remac is about to slide into
that Bentley Bentega next to you.
Speaker 2 (02:04):
Yes he is, and Remac has been such an interesting
story to watch and to follow. Of course, we know
the Nevara hypercar is their world record car, but Mate
has been in the car business for so long.
Speaker 1 (02:19):
Obviously he's at Bugatti as well.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
And yeah, let's I think actually we might, I think
we can pull ahead. He's waiting for us so we're
gonna pull ahead.
Speaker 3 (02:29):
You mean literally like you're gonna drive up.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
We're gonna drive up to the executive pick up area. Now,
if I lose you, just to stick with me.
Speaker 3 (02:39):
This is exciting for we haven't ever had this kind
of live action podcast on boarding.
Speaker 1 (02:46):
I mean of an executive.
Speaker 3 (02:47):
You're gonna drive up in your Bentley Benaga speed to
the executive pick up area at the Quail and mate
Remac is gonna get in next to you. That's cool,
that is exactly right.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
And I do see him, you know, come on in,
good to see you. We're literally Matt's waiting. We got
it all set up starting.
Speaker 3 (03:08):
Hi, mate, thanks so much for joint.
Speaker 4 (03:09):
Dude.
Speaker 3 (03:10):
I can't tell you how excited I am to talk
to you, because Hannah's been telling me about you for
a couple of years now, and I obviously have read
everything about you, and I'm talking to like Winkleman all
the time and my buddy Michael Haas, and so I'm
super pumped that we get to hear your story. If
I could just jump right in, like how did you
get started? I heard something about you used to race
(03:32):
like a BMW and you electrified it and that's how
that's how you got kind of the bug.
Speaker 5 (03:37):
Well, I was crazy about car since I was born.
But I was born in a place where there were
almost no cars. Was in Yugoslavia at that time in
nineteen eighty eight, which is today Bosnia, so there were
basically no roads, no cars.
Speaker 4 (03:51):
But I was somewhow born with a bug.
Speaker 5 (03:53):
I don't know why, Like my family had nothing to
do with cars, so I always wanted to do something
with cars, anything like I wanted to be an engineer,
race driver, designer or whatever.
Speaker 3 (04:02):
Did you did you study it in school?
Speaker 5 (04:06):
So when the war started, my parents moved to Germany
and we were ten years there, and then ten years
after we moved to Germany, we moved to Croatia, and
in Croatia there was nothing related to cars. So the
closest that I could do in high school was mecatronics.
So that's like combining electronics and mechanics and I So
(04:33):
I did that because like that was like the stepping
stone to do something in university with cars later. So
I built stuff in my garage already at that time,
like in my parents' house, and I was competing in
competitions for electronics and stuff like that. So I had
two patents. When I was seventeen, I was national champion
(04:54):
for electronics at that age. I was then sent all
around the world to compete for Croatia in different kinds
of competitions. And that's when I bought my nineteen eighty
four BMW three series. So I was in high school
and this was I bought that car because it was
the easiest way to start racing, the cheapest way, like
(05:17):
an old BMW. You weld a differential easy, yeah, exactly,
like the lowest stepping stone to start. And when I
was still in high school, I started to race for
that car, and the engine blew up when I was
at one of the races. And because I was into electronics,
and because I was from Croatia where Nicola Tesla was
(05:38):
born as well, and Nicola Tesla has invented the alternating
current like the motor. I actually wanted to replace the
engine with a bigger one, with the newer, more modern engine,
but I didn't have the money. It was too expensive.
So I was like, okay, when I'm now already going
to invest all of my effort, all of my time,
all my money into modifying this BNW let's do something
different that can also become a business. So I decided
(06:00):
to make this car electric. So I did that when
I was eighteen, just when I was starting university. So
I built the BMW into an electric car in my
garage and started to race it. And was at the
time when they was zero electric cars in Croatia. Nowhere,
I never saw any electric car. And then I show
(06:22):
up at races with an electric car. There's an old
green BMW.
Speaker 1 (06:25):
They probably what did they think?
Speaker 4 (06:26):
I mean what they were laughing at me.
Speaker 5 (06:28):
They were like, what the hell are you doing with
a washing machine on the racetrack, Like, you know, can
we charge our phone on the car? And all these jokes,
like I heard them all and they were like, you know,
like what is this? Like everyone was like, couldn't believe it.
And then when I started winning, they wanted to like
the other competitors. They were like, ah, they need to
ban this car because so fast, like it's different. Yeah,
(06:52):
all of a sudden, all yeah, exactly. And that was
a great time for me. Actually, I learned so much.
So in Crazia there was no car industry, so I
couldn't learn from anyone, so I learned everything I could
online and from books everything I could. But then I
was always building this car myself, so quickly I knew
more than I could find on the internet.
Speaker 4 (07:14):
So that car became faster and faster, better and better.
Speaker 5 (07:17):
And I started company in two thousand and nine because
I was like, I want to make a business out
of this. And the initial idea was to convert other
people's cars into electric cars. And I did a couple,
but I realized that's a really bad idea. Well, you know,
any car you see on the road, there have been
(07:39):
billions invested in that car, and before the first customer
gets his car, there have been hundreds prough types built, tested.
Speaker 4 (07:47):
Salidated, and so on.
Speaker 5 (07:47):
And now you know, a guy comes to you with
a car, whatever the car is, Like my first customer
or second customer was a nine to eleven Porsche, like
an old Porsche, and he gave me the car, and
I need to electrify it, And then like, you have
to do something specifically for that car. First of all,
that car is never developed to be electric, so you
don't have the right space for the battery. It's not
made to be electric, so you already make a compromise.
(08:10):
But then you know that one car you have to
make reliable, has to work, has to run, and has
to be user friendly. That one thing, you know, not
building one hundreds of prototypes testing everything, so it's not
really safe, it's not reliable. You know, it's just a
bad product. And then I was like, Okay, if you
(08:31):
want to make an electric car properly, you have to
stop from scratch.
Speaker 4 (08:34):
You have to build it from the ground up.
Speaker 5 (08:37):
And I had this idea of like, how would an
electric car be if you had four elected motors, one
for each wheel, where you can control each wield separately,
because that's something you cannot do with the traditional car.
And that's when I decided to make my own car.
And being inspired by Christian Koenigsek and Kurachia Pagani who
built their own car companies, and I'm like, you know,
they did it in Sweden and Italy, maybe I can
(08:58):
do it in Croatia. Had no idea what the hell
I was doing. Yeah, So that's that's how it started.
Speaker 3 (09:04):
That's amazing, and I mean it just leads to me
so many more questions, like how did you get the
space to do it, how did you get the investment capital?
To do it because you have to be somewhat And
now now that I know your story from from this end,
(09:25):
you are also an incredible businessman, right, But how did
you learn that skill which is entirely different than electro
mechanic engineering.
Speaker 5 (09:35):
I had no idea, man, you have to it's it's
the great filter to be able to do all that.
Speaker 4 (09:46):
The wise I wouldn't be here. So in Croatia it was.
Speaker 5 (09:51):
But as I was competing with that BMW, I you know,
obviously my parents were supporting me. It was a few
thousand euros for parts. It wasn't it was in nineteen
eighty four BMW with a forkliff elected motor.
Speaker 1 (10:01):
Did your parents understand what you were doing? Yeah?
Speaker 5 (10:03):
No, Like my my mother was like, please just finish university.
She had a job, like mom, Yeah, no, she's a
great mom. My mother is the best mom ever. But
they come you don't understand what Bosnia was when they
were growing up, like today, it's like a hundred years ago.
At that time was like three hundred years ago. Yes,
(10:25):
so she she was living like you know, you wouldn't
be able to imagine that. It's like a house where
the animals are living downstairs and then you have like
a floor which is not ceiling so that the warmth
can come up the living space above.
Speaker 4 (10:40):
They didn't have running water in electricity like.
Speaker 1 (10:43):
That in the Middle East as well.
Speaker 4 (10:44):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (10:44):
Yeah, so that's you know, just one generation ago. Yes,
that's how my where I'm coming from.
Speaker 3 (10:51):
It's insane that you have developed a technology that's really
like a generation ahead as well.
Speaker 4 (10:57):
Yeah, that shows like how society today.
Speaker 5 (11:00):
I think it's it's amazing that, you know, someone from
where I was born can do this kind of stuff today.
Speaker 2 (11:07):
You know, I think was so convincing when you're asking
people to give you money and you are a random guy,
you know, with a green BMW saying.
Speaker 4 (11:18):
I'll tell you the story.
Speaker 3 (11:19):
How did you.
Speaker 1 (11:19):
Convince him to give you money?
Speaker 2 (11:21):
I have.
Speaker 5 (11:24):
A thousand doors. So I didn't know how fundraising works
like today. You know, you can listen to podcasts, you
can see YouTube videos. I had no idea, no idea
how this works. I didn't know what a pitch deck is,
what pitching is, what the business.
Speaker 4 (11:36):
I had no idea.
Speaker 5 (11:37):
So as I was racing there, I was quite famous
in I mean it was being at Yeah, it was
in the media and there was a guy who came
to me and he said, look, I'm working for a
royal family in the Middle Least. They're always looking for
interesting stuff, like do you have something that you can
show me, maybe they would be interested. So and I
was quite good at that. So I built like a
(11:59):
little brochure which looked really nice. I still have it
where I had the first sketches of the car I
wanted to build.
Speaker 4 (12:05):
There was no car. There was nothing.
Speaker 5 (12:07):
It was just sketches and like specifications like speed, exploration,
power weight, but it was not real. There was nothing,
and he took that for sure. He went to Abu
Dhabi and he said, great, they want to buy two cars.
I was like, okay, but there's no cars, there's no company.
And then he asked me the next day, okay, so
what do you need to make that? Wow, they might
(12:28):
want to invest.
Speaker 4 (12:30):
And I was like, I don't know.
Speaker 5 (12:31):
So I sit down and build a business plan, and
of course I had no idea what I need. So
I said to develop that car, I need foe and
a half million euros. But I had no idea. I
didn't know any one person from the out industry. I
didn't know anyone, and they were like, okay, here's a
term sheet, and I get a term sheet, and I
was looking for a lawyer in Croatio who on the
(12:51):
stands a bench capital term sheet, and I couldn't find
a lawyer. So I was sitting there with a lawyer
who was telling me like, hmm, drag along probably means that,
and I'm like, no, that doesn't sound like it means that,
like tag along rite the first fusal like they didn't
understand it because there were no venture capital deals done
in Croatia anyway. So we had an agreement and they
want They were supposedly the lest four and a half million,
(13:15):
and I had two milestones. One was to show the
car at the Frankfurt Auto Show, which was nine months
later in September of twenty eleven, and then I had
to to deliver them two cars. So I started to
hire people, but no one from the outodustry. I couldn't
afford to bring in Germans, Italians or whatever. Just a
(13:36):
few Croatian guys that I knew were skilled, and I
rented the facility. So in April, first of April, I
had three employees joining me. I broke five FI in
Guinness World Records for the BMW and I rented the building,
so we had five months to develop and build a car,
all of us doing it for the first time, and
(13:57):
the investors just paid like a couple of hundred thousand,
and I said, off, but they screwed me.
Speaker 4 (14:04):
So what do you mean?
Speaker 5 (14:06):
I so I just convinced the wives of the guys
that worked for me that they can give up their
safe and secure jobs to work for a twenty old
guy who wants to make an electric supercar with some
Arab investors blah blah, which they did. They left their
secure jobs to work for me. I rented the building,
ordered parts and was expecting that the Arabs will do
(14:28):
their part. But after dragging it, you know, in contracts
and whatever, I flew to the Middle East and they
were like, we don't believe in Croatia and doing it there.
And I was super patriotic, which was a big mistake
also from my side, but it is what it is.
I really wanted to do, like to prove that you
can do it in crazy and I was like, so
they said, if you want our money, you have to
(14:49):
move to I would w to do it there, and
I was like, screw you.
Speaker 4 (14:52):
I'm not doing that.
Speaker 5 (14:54):
I want to do this in Croatia, and they were furious,
like no one says no to us. So I didn't
get anything from them anymore. And I was broke the
moment I started. I couldn't pay my guys, I couldn't
pay the rent, couldn't pay supplies.
Speaker 4 (15:07):
It was a disaster.
Speaker 5 (15:08):
But I thought like, okay, somehow we'll scribble the car
together and we will show it at the Frankfurt Auto
Show and they will be investors flooding our doors. So
we did finish the car, and like the electricity company
came to cut our electricity because we didn't pay the bill,
the land World throwing us out of the building. Like
I couldn't pay the guys for their salaries. We worked
(15:31):
day night. It was a disaster. And then we came
into Frankfurt Auto Show, still building the car in the
truck that was driving there the way to the show.
On the way to the show, and there were people
interested in customers and so on. I was twenty years old.
I had no idea what I was doing, so I
believed when people said that they would buy the car
and so on, but ninety percent of that never materializes.
(15:54):
Then I had to figure out the way to survive.
So I just wanted to make my own car. But
then like, how do we Like, we don't have money,
we are in debt, Like the suppliers are calling us,
they are threatening to sue me and stuff like that.
So I was like, Okay, let's do anything that brings
in money now. So we started to do things for
the outo industry, building prototypes, developing batteries, powetrys and so.
Speaker 4 (16:16):
On, and they just barely barely barely.
Speaker 5 (16:18):
Kept the lights on. So we took on projects that
no one else would ever touch. They were so crazy
and complexity, timing and costs, like being super cheap auto.
Like initially it was like small country.
Speaker 3 (16:29):
The timing and the timing is already making me nervous
as you're telling the story.
Speaker 4 (16:34):
Yeah it was.
Speaker 5 (16:34):
It was awesome. My first ten years. I cannot believe,
Like looking back, I would never go through it again.
I don't think I could go through it. It was
a fucking disaster. And then when we proved ourselves, you know,
we started to do more and more bigger stuff, Like
we started like our first World Card project was the
Cunies regera battery. We were like twenty people at that time.
(16:55):
Then we did the battery for s Martin val Kyrie.
Then we started to do stuff for bigger car companies,
and then investors came in. The first investor, so I
bootstrapped the company for the first years. Then investors started
coming in. Then in two those eighteen portion investors for
the first time eighteen million. That was like a big
seal of approval. That was the first investment they ever did.
And then Hunda invested and then the big guys started
(17:16):
coming in and I raised a billion euros in the meantime.
Speaker 3 (17:19):
I mean, I want to I want to talk about
the Nevara, and you asked one question. Yeah, before that,
I want to. I haven't a lot of questions before
that was my point, like I before we get to
the Navara, I was going to say, because I know
it's so cool, and I've talked to I've interviewed Nico
Rosberg about it and he was so excited. And I
(17:40):
know Luka Dankic got one as well. And Hannah and
I talk about the records that you make all the time,
but you do still a lot of work for other automakers, right,
I mean you I heard you have built a huge
campus now in Croatia, and you still do a lot
of other work besides just your Remax stuff.
Speaker 5 (18:01):
Absolutely, so we have now three companies. So now, the
original company that I founded was called Emats Automobile, like
a car company. But then you know, the majority of
the business was actually doing other stuff for other car companies.
And then when we did the Bugatti deal five years ago,
we split the company in two. So the car stuff
became Bugatti Remas. The tech stuff that we do for
(18:22):
other automakes became Remats Technology. And in the meantime I
founded a third company called vern which is a robotaxi business.
So in totally are two and a half thousand employees.
Around a thousand employees is the Bugatti Remas stuff, around
a thousand three hundred employees is the tech for other companies,
and around a couple of one hundred employees for the robotaxi.
(18:45):
So the tech company is making batteries, powertrains, electronics stuff
like that for many other car companies BMW, Porsche, for
Bugatti as well. I mean Tech is a supplier to
Bugatti and for Emats for some stuff for some parts.
We have five billion euros of orders from other car companies,
(19:06):
for example from BMW that's one of our biggest customers,
Porsche as well, and so on. And we are scaling
that out now big time in Croatia with a huge
new factory that's already completely full, so many of the
cars that are coming from the market or.
Speaker 3 (19:18):
And that's the like, this is what is now making
me feel so good that as a kid, you were
so patriotic that you refuse to move the business out
and you'd hire these guys who you know went with
you and quit their you know, secure jobs, and now
you're putting food on the table for like thousands of
(19:40):
families in Croatia. Like what an incredible feel good story, right.
Speaker 5 (19:45):
Yeah, And it's like we created the whole industry in creation.
It didn't exist before. Like the most that was done
in Croatia before like was like glasses for cars, like
small suppliers, you know, and now you know, we had
to up in the most complex cars. They're like when
you walk into our campus, you see like huge production
lines that are fully automated, as robotized. And at the
(20:08):
same time, you know, in the same building we built
Bugatti's they're developed there and it's great. If someone told
you that fifteen years ago that that would be happening
in Croatia, no one would have Or if.
Speaker 3 (20:18):
Someone told your mom, Dude, if someone told your mom like,
don't worry, he doesn't need to finish university. He's gonna
build a national champion.
Speaker 1 (20:28):
Never have come back.
Speaker 2 (20:30):
Tell us about the robotaxi business, because obviously that's a
really big thing everyone's talking about, you know, robo taxis.
Speaker 1 (20:39):
Fill us in on that.
Speaker 4 (20:40):
Okay.
Speaker 5 (20:40):
So I was invited a lot to speak at different events,
at industry events and like to managements of large companies,
like they wanted like, oh, this young guy, you know
he's doing electrifications on let's let him tell us about it.
Speaker 4 (20:55):
Because they were like, oh my god, the industry is changing.
Speaker 5 (20:58):
Everything's going elexic freaking out, yeah, freaking out, and like
it's such a big change. And then I'm My speech
to them was like, what are you talking about? Nothing
is changing. Like you used to buy injection systems or
gearboxes or exhaust systems from Bosh Continental, Theresamie whatever, and
you build it into the car and then you sell
(21:19):
the car to the dealer. The dealer sells it to
the customer, and then the customer goes to the gas station,
owns the car, runs the car, brings it back to
you for service.
Speaker 4 (21:27):
So today everything is the same. The only thing that changes.
Speaker 5 (21:30):
You don't buy an exhaust system from Continental, you buy
an inverter, you buy a likely motory, you buy battery sells.
You make a car, you sell it to the dealer,
The dealer sells it to the customer, the customer owns
and runs it, and the customer doesn't go to the
gas station. But that that doesn't change anything for the
car manufacturers. What really changes the game is when you
don't own and don't drive the cars anymore. Everything changes,
(21:52):
like who is the players and who is the power
in that industry completely changes. You know, Google will come
with a spec sheet of six hundred pay just to
ten manufacturers and will say, dear Volkswagen, for Renault, who
can build me this car that I have designed for
the cheapest And they are just going to be a
white label manufacturer.
Speaker 4 (22:12):
That changes everything. Soigation is nothing.
Speaker 5 (22:16):
And I was giving that speech years and then an
investor came. I met him at an event and he
was like, you're making cool cars. I'll give you a
lot of money and let's compete against Tesla. And I
was like, I don't think that's a good idea. That's
like starting a CD player company in two thousand and five,
Like you can make the best CD player in the world,
(22:39):
but the iPhone is coming, iTunes is coming, it doesn't matter,
like to develop a car with the sewering wheel. So
I was like, you know, and I was talking about
it so much. I was like, Okay, you know what,
I really believe in this, I'm going to do it.
Speaker 4 (22:54):
So I started a company to develop robotaxis with a
different view.
Speaker 5 (23:00):
I mean, I think, you know, everyone is so focused
on the self driving aspect itself. I think that's a
big problem. But once it's solved, and we are close
to having it solved, as you.
Speaker 1 (23:10):
Know, technology wise, technology.
Speaker 5 (23:12):
I mean I'm not saying we, but like way more Tesla.
You know, many players are working on that. You know,
then it's solved, then it's about many more things like
the user experience, the safety, how do you feel the
best and use that time that you now have gained,
you know. Society capitalist society has to always grow and
predativity has to increase. One of the ways that productivity
(23:33):
has increased those the last two decades was that you
are always online. Hasn't been the case before, and now
you know, we are always online and the next productivity
gain okay ai, but also having more time, like you
commute one hour in average per pay, so getting that
time back, you know you're productive not just for working,
(23:56):
but also as a consumer or to do whatever you want.
Speaker 4 (23:59):
You know.
Speaker 5 (24:00):
So I fundamentally believe that this will change society. People
who are not in a position to drive today because
they are I don't know, too young, they don't have
a there's license, they are too old, they are blind.
Whatever we'll be able to get around will not rely
on other people. It's you know, people say a lot
of people lose jobs, yes, but so that was a situation.
(24:21):
Also when you know elevators had a elevator, boy.
Speaker 4 (24:26):
No one has missing those jobs.
Speaker 5 (24:27):
No one will miss the miserable jobs of truck drivers
sitting in a little room.
Speaker 4 (24:32):
For a whole you know day for weeks.
Speaker 2 (24:36):
I just.
Speaker 5 (24:38):
I just think that this will really change society and
there's lots of opportunity with it. I never believed in
making a high volume carve for us. I never wanted
to go out to Testa and I was like, Okay,
how can you have a bigger impact, How can Kreatia
become really a big player in the out industry.
Speaker 3 (24:54):
That's how it's amazing, such an amazing story. And we
haven't even gotten to the record breaking hypercar yet. Tell
us a little bit about the Neva, because did you
only make like one hundred and fifty of them?
Speaker 4 (25:10):
Or want to take one hundred and fifty? But the
market is not there, you know.
Speaker 5 (25:15):
We we sold around seventy seventy five, which is like
the highest it's the most successful electric sports car in
the world.
Speaker 4 (25:23):
It's you know, it's my baby. I shed so much
blood for that car.
Speaker 3 (25:27):
And it costs What does it cost to buy one?
Speaker 5 (25:30):
The Neva started from two million, The Nevera R is
two point three plus the options. So from let's say
two million until three million is the pricing.
Speaker 4 (25:39):
And you know, the customers who have it love it.
Speaker 5 (25:41):
But I realized, you know, and I was public about it,
shooting myself a little bit in the foot, But that's
how I am that. You know, people in this market,
they just don't want electric cars. And I compared it
to watches, you know, like I mean, I'm an Apple watch,
and this watch can do everything better than a Ptec Philip,
(26:04):
than a Rolex whatever, and can do thousand things more,
just like the Neveda is better in so many things
than combustion hypercars. But no one is paying two hundred
thousand for an Apple Watch.
Speaker 3 (26:16):
It's funny because I agree one hundred percent, and yet
I still would prefer to wear my Rolex Mechanical watch,
even though the Apple Watch does everything that. Now I
wear a Whoop band as well, so I wear two things.
But I just you know, it's it's the same with cars.
(26:38):
I have had such incredible experience as in electric cars
over this last year, I've really been a convert because
they're so quick. You know, in New York traffic, a
lot of times you want to be darting in and
out between other cars. And it's much safer an electric
car because you have that instant torque. And yet I
(26:58):
really love the vibration and the smell, the feel, the
sound of an old technology gasoline car with no turbo
chargers and big displacement. And I mean, look, you have
also spanned both sides of the aisle right because you
have Rimac and the Navara on the one hand, but
you also work so closely with Bugatti, and you brought
(27:20):
the how do you call it? Turbillone to life there.
Tell us about, you know, your endeavor into the IC
side of the business.
Speaker 4 (27:30):
Well, you know, I'm a car guy.
Speaker 5 (27:31):
I have a car collection just like you said, Like,
if you look at my car collection, it's all combustion cars,
many of them old, you know, like Porti, Karagi TV
ten actually aspirated, or like a BMW E thirty nine
V eight and at sheally aspirated. You know that kind
of stuff. And when I was asked by folks finding
to take the company or to take Bugattio or they
were like they're thinking, was Bugatti needs to go electric.
(27:55):
This guy's making like the supercars, so let's give it
to him. He'll make, you know, transition Bugatti to electric.
And then when I took over, I was like, no, wait, guys,
this is wrong.
Speaker 1 (28:04):
Like how did that go over the They.
Speaker 5 (28:07):
Were like screaming at me, like you don't know what
you're talking about, Like you you have no idea how
to develop a hybrid car. You don't know what it
takes to develop a combustion engine. I was like, yeah,
before I developed nevera I was in high school, so
high school too. To develop my own car from ground
up in a country that never did it with super
limited resources is a bigger step than going from that
(28:31):
to develop the turbion. So what I did was so
the emats funded to develop That's an interesting story actually,
So I contacted Costward to develop a V sixteen and
actually asked for an engine and they were like So
I called out of the blue the general manager of
Costword bruce Wood, great guy by the way, and I
was like, hey, you know, you might have heard of
(28:52):
this electric car company from Creatia emails. That's me, you know,
and like, here comes an unusual request. How about can
you developed a sixteen cylinder natural spread engine with the
thousand horsepower? He was like, okay, yeah, why not? So
we started to develop that before I took and so
what I wanted to do was to bring it so
(29:12):
far to get rid of all the nose that folks
and Porsche we are saying, like all of the reasons
why to not do it. So we funded it without
knowing if the deal would come true. So we paid
the development of the sixteen cylinder engine as an electric
car company.
Speaker 4 (29:29):
Crazy thing.
Speaker 5 (29:30):
The biggest car, the biggest engine in the world has
been developed, the biggest road car engine has been developed
by an electric car company.
Speaker 4 (29:37):
Great for two years, and.
Speaker 5 (29:39):
Then when I took Bugatti over, I was like, you know,
presented them with everything, and for every no they had
and for every concern, we already we already built a prototype,
the durability rounds, We knew how much it would cost,
we knew emissions, we knew everything. And then they were
like like, okay, okay, go go like do it. And
today when I talk about it about it with them,
(30:01):
they're like, oh, thanks God, Like because if the if
the Tourbion was electric, even being a Bugatti, even being beautiful,
now they've been a disaster.
Speaker 2 (30:09):
Wow. Can I ask, though, you know, everyone we're saying, okay,
people don't want an electric supercar right now. In the end,
are we still getting to a world of electric cars?
Speaker 4 (30:22):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (30:23):
Okay, So this is something that you know, I've been
talking a lot to dealers and about dealers lately, and
the dealers are not wanting to sell electric cars. Yes,
but in the long run, and tell me if I'm wrong,
we are still going electric.
Speaker 5 (30:34):
Absolutely, and it makes a lot of sense I'm not
anti electric car, yeah forbid. You know, I think it's
a great technology, just like with watches. So ninety percent
of watches are digital, but ninety percent of the profits
of watchmaking come from the extent of the Swiss watches,
ninety percent of the profits. So I think majority of
(30:57):
cars will be electric, and it makes so much sense.
It's so much better, no question about that. What I
don't like is government mandate that it needs to be pushed, like,
you know, make the cars better and cheaper and the
customers will take them.
Speaker 4 (31:11):
You know, don't mandate.
Speaker 5 (31:13):
It, because that's what gets you the in creation, we
have a word for dishbet I don't know how to backlash.
Speaker 3 (31:19):
We have backlash in the US, right. You have people
who don't want to be told what to do by
big brother, and so if you mandate it, they will
immediately go the other way. I'm kind of like that myself.
Speaker 5 (31:31):
Exactly, yeah, exactly exactly. That's that's the thing. So you
have that today, you know, that's what people are like.
They feel repelled by this push of like why do
you want to take combustion cars away from me? So yes,
But on the other side, like think about it, in
this way. So even if one hundred percent of sales
of cars are electric new cars, it takes still a
(31:54):
decade to replace the fleet. So if you look at
the parking lot, like when we'll like look at this
parking lot over there. So maybe five percent or ten
percent of cars on that parking lot today are electric.
When will that parking lot be one hundred percent electric?
I say never? Why because it will be thirty forty percent,
So not market share, that's a different thing. Thirty percent
(32:16):
maybe of all the cars on the road will be electric,
and then the parking lot will disappear, Yeah, because it
will be autonomous. I see, that's my view.
Speaker 3 (32:25):
Yeah, well, or maybe much smaller because some people still
want to drive the turbion right.
Speaker 5 (32:31):
Absolutely, And you know, I don't want to take ownership
like some people think that I want to take ownership
away from people. Whatever, it's a choice. Like you know, horses.
Everyone used to have horses, Like my mother still had
horses to pull stuff around, not because it was like
fancy riding, but the work. And everyone used to have them. Today,
(32:52):
none forbids you to have them. If it's so important
to you, if you so much much like it too,
you know, have the investment four horse the time, you know,
the effort.
Speaker 1 (33:02):
To Georgina Bloomberg, perfect example. You know you can still Austrian.
Of course, I think it's course.
Speaker 3 (33:09):
Katie Greefeld, my co anchor on Open Interest, she every
day she leaves this office and goes to ride her horse.
But obviously ninety nine percent of the employees in this
building do not do that.
Speaker 4 (33:22):
Right.
Speaker 5 (33:22):
Yeah, but you know, if you think about the car,
like you worry about it more than about yourself. You
take it to service more often than you go to
a doctor. You worry about parking, cleaning, whatever. It's a
hassle and if you're used to it, our generation is
used to it. But like someone born today has to
go three months to get the driver's license, has to
have the second investment of their life, second largest investment
(33:43):
after their housing, being a car, and so on, most
people will say, no, why when I have a super
convenient option of an autonomous car driving me around. Some
people will still make that choice, and great, I'm one
of them. I will have cars, but I think most
people won't.
Speaker 4 (33:57):
You know that changes.
Speaker 3 (33:58):
One thing that's hilarious is the thought experiment. I recently
saw someone saying like, what if we started with electric
cars and then one hundred years later somebody was like, Hey,
I have a new idea. Let's do an internal combustion engine.
We use oil from the ground and it makes explosions
in the car. It's super noisy, it's really smelly, it's
(34:21):
very polluting, and you drive around like that and somebody'll
be like, that's a horrible idea.
Speaker 4 (34:26):
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2 (34:27):
Well electric cars initially we're marketed toward women right as yes, quiet,
easy to.
Speaker 1 (34:33):
Maintain and start.
Speaker 2 (34:34):
You know, it's the car you buy your wife at
the other turn of the century, the previously. But I'm curious,
are are tariffs uh disruptive to your business and what
you're doing?
Speaker 4 (34:47):
Well, it's uncertainty.
Speaker 1 (34:49):
It's the uncertainty.
Speaker 4 (34:50):
Yah.
Speaker 5 (34:50):
Yeah, Like you know, so we have so around forty
of our market is US. So we'll got to you
for example, Uh, and we offered our customs is like okay,
you know you want to keep you want to.
Speaker 4 (35:02):
Get the car to the US, or you want to
keep it in Europe. And we see what happens.
Speaker 5 (35:06):
And this year so we are delivering in Bugatti Mistral
It's limited to ninety nine cars, thirty five of them
are going to the US, and we asked our customers
and one guy said, I'm.
Speaker 4 (35:16):
Too rich and too like ship over, so he must be.
Speaker 5 (35:23):
She paid the theref The other ones kept the cars
in storage Europe. And now that it's fifteen percent, you know,
just now talking here to our customers to see if
they're finding it or we need to maybe sell the
cars to a different location.
Speaker 4 (35:34):
But fifteen percent, I think it's quite okay.
Speaker 5 (35:37):
Like when I buy a car in Croatia, in the
car I made myself, I have to pay a lot
more taxes for car made in Europe.
Speaker 4 (35:43):
Sure, So I think fifteen.
Speaker 5 (35:44):
Percent is like there, okay, And yeah, I guess that
will stay for a while. So as long as that's
now the start is quo and it stays stable, I
think that's fine.
Speaker 1 (35:56):
Fine.
Speaker 2 (35:57):
Another question for you, and this is a crazy pivot,
but would Bugatti or Rimac ever become involved in motorsport
like in as a as a branded factory team?
Speaker 4 (36:09):
Yeah? Why not? I mean I started with racing, right Yeah.
Speaker 3 (36:12):
And Bugatti also has an incredible obviously racing pedigree.
Speaker 2 (36:16):
I mean it seems like everybody is joining, whether it's
Whack or you know F one.
Speaker 5 (36:21):
Or just yesterday I had a discussion about that with
some people.
Speaker 1 (36:25):
Here is that on the table at all?
Speaker 5 (36:27):
You know, one thing I love about racing is that
it's pushing technology forward like war. You know, people getting hurt.
It's like war for technology. But that has not been
the case recently because of things like balance of performance,
where you get basically get penalized for being better.
Speaker 1 (36:46):
We've talked about that on this show.
Speaker 3 (36:47):
Nobody that's what except for Ferrari loves it.
Speaker 5 (36:51):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, those who play good politics they like it.
So I hate that, and that's why I didn't race.
So we break records all the time and so on,
so we push the limits in other fields.
Speaker 4 (37:02):
However, I'm interested in racing.
Speaker 5 (37:04):
I'm looking at it, and at some point we might
join some racing, but I just hate that. Road cars,
or let's say when we as a brand or other
brands also build cars that are not that I let's
say track cars, but not for for racing series. They
are more advanced like torque acturing, traction control, active aodynamics.
You know, these are things that you can't do in
(37:26):
racing today, and what's the point of racing. Then it's
like it's a show. It's a circus, you know.
Speaker 2 (37:32):
So excitement, hype, marketing for the brand you get.
Speaker 5 (37:38):
Yeah, fine, okay, but I am about substance, like doing
a show just to hype.
Speaker 4 (37:44):
It's it's like wrestling, you know, like w W. Yeah, yeah,
it's like what.
Speaker 2 (37:48):
Uh huh I mean there are a lot of people
who love wrestling.
Speaker 3 (37:52):
Well, I think I think the argument is I watched
Moto GP a lot, right, and they're getting new regulations
next year that is going to limit the amount of
electronics you can use and also reduce the motor and
the arrow because they want the human to still play
a big role in it. If you let it go
(38:12):
too far with the arrow, then it becomes like F
one where the driver doesn't really matter as much and
instead you pay some old guy forty nine million dollars
a year to year aerodynamics. Right, So they want the
kids to be part of it. By the way, dude,
want how would you do endurance racing with an electric car?
Because I guess you could swap out the battery.
Speaker 5 (38:35):
Lost battery, but the stints are not. You would be
a lot shorter on the track, Like it's not there yet.
Speaker 3 (38:42):
Not twenty four hours not possible.
Speaker 5 (38:45):
I mean yes, but you would not be competitive with
electric cars today.
Speaker 4 (38:48):
It's just like it's just the batteries will be too heavy.
Speaker 5 (38:52):
You would have to get in the pits much more
often than than combustion cars. Just you know, energy density,
Like all cars that have pretty efficient combustion engines there
are at like forty plus percent efficiency and electric motors
like ninety percent efficient. But fuel is ten times more
energy dense storage compared to batteries, so you are double
(39:16):
efficient with the motor, but you are ten times less
efficient with the battery storage. So basically it will be
five times less you know, simple mathematics. But just about
the human aspect. I understand what you're saying, and you know,
I'm very pro human all of that. But there's so
many sports where it's all about the athlete, you know, tennis, football, basketball, whatever,
(39:40):
it's all about the person, whatever, hill climbing, so many things.
But why not have a few racing series where it's
about the technology, the racing teams, you know, pushing stuff
over it, it's about new materials.
Speaker 4 (39:55):
You know, human is also part of it.
Speaker 1 (39:57):
But like you don't think Formula E is that?
Speaker 3 (40:00):
Yeah, well, Formula one is that already you know.
Speaker 5 (40:04):
One yeah, for is very restricted as well in terms
of regulation because they want to get the cost down
for teams to be able to compete.
Speaker 3 (40:11):
That's very that's a very good point, mate, Like if
you if you say it's unlimited, then you're going to
come in with one or two players that spend hundreds
and hundreds and hundreds of millions of dollars and no
one else can compete.
Speaker 1 (40:23):
But that would push the technology forward.
Speaker 5 (40:25):
That was how it was like in the twenties and
the thirties, Like this stuff, the technology has been invented
for them in the twenties, thirties, forties, it's incredible, Like
the first I think wipers have been invented for the more,
the first disc breaks, the first I believe headlights as well.
You know, Like the list is very long, and it
(40:47):
benefited road cars in the end. Like what's the benefit
we get today from racing and road cars?
Speaker 3 (40:52):
Not that much really, No, So what's it like when
you're back in Croatia, where's the samobor where's the it's
just also and when you're driving around there or if
you're driving around Split which you know a lot of
Americans know in a turbijon. What do the kids say,
you know, is everybody just freaking out?
Speaker 5 (41:15):
Yeah, it's It became such a normal sight to see
Bugatti or a prototype of another car, Like I go everywhere,
Like I just came from Croatia from Split a couple
of days ago. I spent my summer in a Bugatti Hiron,
you know, I leave it on the like Croatia is
super safe. It's the safest country in Europe. Like you,
(41:35):
I leave my Bugatti everywhere on the side of the road,
you know, I go hiking with that car and leave
it in the woods. And it became just so normal
to see a Bugatti or in a Vera in Croatia
that most people don't pay attention. But the kids, they
go crazy. They come up, they want to take photos.
I let them always start the engine.
Speaker 3 (41:52):
So, by the way, dude, what else, what else do
you want to do? I mean, you're only thirty seven, so,
like you still have your whole life ahead of you
after having done all of this. You built your own company,
you turned it into a national champion. You're running you know, legendary,
you know, historically significant Bugatti, Like is there anything do
(42:17):
you want to do anything outside of cars.
Speaker 5 (42:19):
I mean, one thing I messed up is I'm thirty seven.
I don't have kids, so it's not too late.
Speaker 3 (42:25):
I had my first when I was forty six. You
have time for that.
Speaker 4 (42:29):
Oh there you go, a big jagger.
Speaker 1 (42:31):
Yeah he's going strong.
Speaker 5 (42:33):
So that's one thing. You know, the population topic, especially
in Europe, you're really screwed. So I want my part
like Elon, Maybe not like him, but yeah, I gotcha,
I hear you.
Speaker 3 (42:47):
Like, but do you think of other stuff? Do you
have ideas outside of cars? Or are you just so
busy with all of your automotive enterprises that you don't
have time.
Speaker 5 (42:59):
The crazy thing is I was thinking about it recently,
and I'm like Jesus Christ. I actually did everything I wanted.
Like I wanted to make the fastest electric sports car
in the world.
Speaker 4 (43:07):
I did that.
Speaker 5 (43:08):
I wanted to make this new generation Bugatti like the
idea had, like you know, the Tourbion. I made a
little model of that, like the size of that car.
When I talked initially with folks Funk about taking the
company over. So I developed the Tourbion like a little thing,
like a little model of it myself, like that's that's
really my baby, the Turbion. I love that car, and like,
(43:30):
now it's there, it exists. Then I wanted to do
a ROBOTAXI. I wanted to develop all of these new
battery technologies and powertrains and stuff like that. I'm like,
and the campus that was like a big baby for me.
And I did all of that, and I'm like, you know,
everything I wanted to do. Beat a ROBOTAXI, beat an
electric hyper car, a hybrid hypercar, a battery technology campus.
(43:54):
I did actually what I wanted. So now I want
to make very successful companies. So I took billion euros
of investors' money. You know, I want to make Bugatti
into the most successful, most profitable car company in the world,
and want to make our employees rich with their stock options.
(44:14):
So yeah, there's still a lot of stuff to do,
and you know, getting the robotaxes to run, getting them
out on the market. Being like you know, you, you
and the usually have am more in Tesla. In Europe,
we don't have anything except what we are doing. I mean,
there's some other people trying to do it as well,
but like I want to be that we.
Speaker 3 (44:34):
By the way, do you ever run into Elon.
Speaker 4 (44:37):
Do you ever talk to Elon American ones? American ones?
Speaker 5 (44:40):
Yeah, and it was I feel like he I mean,
he's being a little bit demonized right now, and I
understand why. You know, when you look at it from
the surface, you know, it's easy to to to put
a stigma on someone you know, and you know, I
don't want to get into politics and st but I
(45:00):
still think he is the most amazing human that lives.
He has the biggest impact on humanity, like sending rockets,
you know, reusable rockets to Mars.
Speaker 4 (45:09):
And I know how he changed the out industry from inside.
Speaker 5 (45:12):
It's a completely different industry because of one guy, because
of him, and it's the second biggest industry in the world,
you know, after food making. So so I think he's amazing
and he's doing amazing things. No one is perfect, nor
is he. But like having met him in person, I
felt like he's like two things I noticed. One he's
(45:32):
the same like when you listen to him on YouTube
or whatever on podcasts. And the second thing is like
he has no he doesn't care. He doesn't give them
what other people are doing. Like when I tell my story,
when people hear a little bit about it. Everyone's like,
well I need to come there. I need to see
what you're doing. And all of the executives in the
out industry they came and see what we're doing.
Speaker 4 (45:51):
He didn't give them, you know.
Speaker 5 (45:53):
He just looks at his own thing and like, yeah, focus,
I can do whatever. You know, whatever needs to be done,
I can do it better than anyone else.
Speaker 4 (46:01):
That's his right.
Speaker 1 (46:04):
Is space appealing to you at all?
Speaker 2 (46:05):
Oh?
Speaker 4 (46:06):
Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 5 (46:07):
I just think like it's depressing because within our lifetimes,
whatever we do, we will not discover like zero one
one percent of you know, Like yeah, so you know,
I'm thinking about this often, Like I mean, you Americans
are maybe a little bit different. I have been working
sixteen years like an animal to build this company, and
I cannot imagine myself like like Elon, you know, he's
(46:28):
seventeen years older than me, like that in seventeen years,
I'm still like that and I just work and like
it's just about like I would maybe like to have
you know, Bugatti as a long term thing for me,
and I would try to restrain myself from starting more
new things. I just want to you know, like also
have you know, I would like family, would love to
(46:50):
be father.
Speaker 1 (46:50):
You know, meaningful in your personal life. This is admirb.
I think that's actually yeah me.
Speaker 3 (46:55):
Too good for you, dude, you deserve it also Jesus
Christ very.
Speaker 2 (46:59):
Well, yes, yes you've and the great words of Mariah Carrey.
You've done enough, You've done enough.
Speaker 3 (47:06):
Well. I really appreciate I really appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (47:10):
Wait, wait, he was gonna say something. Don't do car food.
Speaker 5 (47:14):
Yeah, I think what you are consuming today is you know,
it's uh yeah.
Speaker 1 (47:21):
It's it's not healthy.
Speaker 5 (47:22):
Sustainable, yeah, sustainable, well, sustainable, yes, but like I just
think the way we farm today, and like what you
do to animals. You kill hundred and fifty billion animals
a year. What you consume you know that that's something
I would like love to do if I wouldn't do cars,
or if I have some spare capesty at some point
that that's something I will get into.
Speaker 4 (47:42):
That is we're going to watch.
Speaker 3 (47:43):
Yeah, I'll be watching that. By the way, when you
talk about autos are the second biggest industry after food,
do you mean in terms of people employed or.
Speaker 4 (47:53):
Yeah?
Speaker 5 (47:54):
So I'm not sure if housing or food production is
the first, the ultimatetry is second. As far as I know,
but maybe a housing is real estate is maybe the
first industry like globally.
Speaker 3 (48:06):
Well, let me first say I really appreciate you spending
some time with us. It's been an awesome conversation and
I'm gonna I'm gonna say this is now my favorite
podcast conversation. We've been doing this for over a year, so.
Speaker 1 (48:19):
Yeah, this is really great, Monte. Thank you.
Speaker 2 (48:22):
I'm Matt Miller and I'm Hannah Elliott, and this is
Bloomberg
Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio News.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
I'm Matt Miller and I'm Hannah Elliott, and this is
Hot Pursuit.
Speaker 3 (00:12):
All right, this is a pretty exciting day. I mean,
I'm super pumped because you are at the Quail in Monterey.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
I'm at the Quail in Monterey. I've been here for
a few hours and I'm actually currently sat in a
Bentley Bentega SUV for the purposes of this podcast that
has been very nicely loan to us. And it's fun
because I'm sitting here in the front and watching all
of the cars roll in for the day, and it's
basically a car It's like a car show. I mean,
(00:41):
in terms of new cars, the debuts here are just
going to be phenomenal.
Speaker 3 (00:45):
Yeah, let's walk through those a little bit. Because you
sent me a list earlier. I initially wanted to talk
to some guys from Ring Brothers. They are a resto
mod company. They usually do like sixties era muscle cars,
but at the Quail doing I think nineteen seventy one
Aston Martin. But they're doing it. They're unveiling it right now,
(01:06):
and so they couldn't join us for this, and but
you sent me a list of like a ton of
other reveals or you know, presentations that are gonna happen.
What else is coming up?
Speaker 2 (01:17):
So I have to say there are some surprises here.
For instance, Corvette will be showing two new concepts of
future cars. We talked about that a little bit last
week with Mark Royce, but I am I've seen the
cars and by the time this publishes, I guess we
can talk about it. Yeah, there's two thousand horsepower electric
(01:39):
and ones a hybrid ones an electric corvettes that are
called the CX concept. Yeah, yeah, I mean.
Speaker 3 (01:47):
They're both two thousand horsepower. Yes, that's insane. But by
the way, that actually reminds me we can go ahead
and tease the guests we have coming up. Because speaking
of electric hypercars, Mate Remac is about to slide into
that Bentley Bentega next to you.
Speaker 2 (02:04):
Yes he is, and Remac has been such an interesting
story to watch and to follow. Of course, we know
the Nevara hypercar is their world record car, but Mate
has been in the car business for so long.
Speaker 1 (02:19):
Obviously he's at Bugatti as well.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
And yeah, let's I think actually we might, I think
we can pull ahead. He's waiting for us so we're
gonna pull ahead.
Speaker 3 (02:29):
You mean literally like you're gonna drive up.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
We're gonna drive up to the executive pick up area. Now,
if I lose you, just to stick with me.
Speaker 3 (02:39):
This is exciting for we haven't ever had this kind
of live action podcast on boarding.
Speaker 1 (02:46):
I mean of an executive.
Speaker 3 (02:47):
You're gonna drive up in your Bentley Benaga speed to
the executive pick up area at the Quail and mate
Remac is gonna get in next to you. That's cool,
that is exactly right.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
And I do see him, you know, come on in,
good to see you. We're literally Matt's waiting. We got
it all set up starting.
Speaker 3 (03:08):
Hi, mate, thanks so much for joint.
Speaker 4 (03:09):
Dude.
Speaker 3 (03:10):
I can't tell you how excited I am to talk
to you, because Hannah's been telling me about you for
a couple of years now, and I obviously have read
everything about you, and I'm talking to like Winkleman all
the time and my buddy Michael Haas, and so I'm
super pumped that we get to hear your story. If
I could just jump right in, like how did you
get started? I heard something about you used to race
(03:32):
like a BMW and you electrified it and that's how
that's how you got kind of the bug.
Speaker 5 (03:37):
Well, I was crazy about car since I was born.
But I was born in a place where there were
almost no cars. Was in Yugoslavia at that time in
nineteen eighty eight, which is today Bosnia, so there were
basically no roads, no cars.
Speaker 4 (03:51):
But I was somewhow born with a bug.
Speaker 5 (03:53):
I don't know why, Like my family had nothing to
do with cars, so I always wanted to do something
with cars, anything like I wanted to be an engineer,
race driver, designer or whatever.
Speaker 3 (04:02):
Did you did you study it in school?
Speaker 5 (04:06):
So when the war started, my parents moved to Germany
and we were ten years there, and then ten years
after we moved to Germany, we moved to Croatia, and
in Croatia there was nothing related to cars. So the
closest that I could do in high school was mecatronics.
So that's like combining electronics and mechanics and I So
(04:33):
I did that because like that was like the stepping
stone to do something in university with cars later. So
I built stuff in my garage already at that time,
like in my parents' house, and I was competing in
competitions for electronics and stuff like that. So I had
two patents. When I was seventeen, I was national champion
(04:54):
for electronics at that age. I was then sent all
around the world to compete for Croatia in different kinds
of competitions. And that's when I bought my nineteen eighty
four BMW three series. So I was in high school
and this was I bought that car because it was
the easiest way to start racing, the cheapest way, like
(05:17):
an old BMW. You weld a differential easy, yeah, exactly,
like the lowest stepping stone to start. And when I
was still in high school, I started to race for
that car, and the engine blew up when I was
at one of the races. And because I was into electronics,
and because I was from Croatia where Nicola Tesla was
(05:38):
born as well, and Nicola Tesla has invented the alternating
current like the motor. I actually wanted to replace the
engine with a bigger one, with the newer, more modern engine,
but I didn't have the money. It was too expensive.
So I was like, okay, when I'm now already going
to invest all of my effort, all of my time,
all my money into modifying this BNW let's do something
different that can also become a business. So I decided
(06:00):
to make this car electric. So I did that when
I was eighteen, just when I was starting university. So
I built the BMW into an electric car in my
garage and started to race it. And was at the
time when they was zero electric cars in Croatia. Nowhere,
I never saw any electric car. And then I show
(06:22):
up at races with an electric car. There's an old
green BMW.
Speaker 1 (06:25):
They probably what did they think?
Speaker 4 (06:26):
I mean what they were laughing at me.
Speaker 5 (06:28):
They were like, what the hell are you doing with
a washing machine on the racetrack, Like, you know, can
we charge our phone on the car? And all these jokes,
like I heard them all and they were like, you know,
like what is this? Like everyone was like, couldn't believe it.
And then when I started winning, they wanted to like
the other competitors. They were like, ah, they need to
ban this car because so fast, like it's different. Yeah,
(06:52):
all of a sudden, all yeah, exactly. And that was
a great time for me. Actually, I learned so much.
So in Crazia there was no car industry, so I
couldn't learn from anyone, so I learned everything I could
online and from books everything I could. But then I
was always building this car myself, so quickly I knew
more than I could find on the internet.
Speaker 4 (07:14):
So that car became faster and faster, better and better.
Speaker 5 (07:17):
And I started company in two thousand and nine because
I was like, I want to make a business out
of this. And the initial idea was to convert other
people's cars into electric cars. And I did a couple,
but I realized that's a really bad idea. Well, you know,
any car you see on the road, there have been
(07:39):
billions invested in that car, and before the first customer
gets his car, there have been hundreds prough types built, tested.
Speaker 4 (07:47):
Salidated, and so on.
Speaker 5 (07:47):
And now you know, a guy comes to you with
a car, whatever the car is, Like my first customer
or second customer was a nine to eleven Porsche, like
an old Porsche, and he gave me the car, and
I need to electrify it, And then like, you have
to do something specifically for that car. First of all,
that car is never developed to be electric, so you
don't have the right space for the battery. It's not
made to be electric, so you already make a compromise.
(08:10):
But then you know that one car you have to
make reliable, has to work, has to run, and has
to be user friendly. That one thing, you know, not
building one hundreds of prototypes testing everything, so it's not
really safe, it's not reliable. You know, it's just a
bad product. And then I was like, Okay, if you
(08:31):
want to make an electric car properly, you have to
stop from scratch.
Speaker 4 (08:34):
You have to build it from the ground up.
Speaker 5 (08:37):
And I had this idea of like, how would an
electric car be if you had four elected motors, one
for each wheel, where you can control each wield separately,
because that's something you cannot do with the traditional car.
And that's when I decided to make my own car.
And being inspired by Christian Koenigsek and Kurachia Pagani who
built their own car companies, and I'm like, you know,
they did it in Sweden and Italy, maybe I can
(08:58):
do it in Croatia. Had no idea what the hell
I was doing. Yeah, So that's that's how it started.
Speaker 3 (09:04):
That's amazing, and I mean it just leads to me
so many more questions, like how did you get the
space to do it, how did you get the investment capital?
To do it because you have to be somewhat And
now now that I know your story from from this end,
(09:25):
you are also an incredible businessman, right, But how did
you learn that skill which is entirely different than electro
mechanic engineering.
Speaker 5 (09:35):
I had no idea, man, you have to it's it's
the great filter to be able to do all that.
Speaker 4 (09:46):
The wise I wouldn't be here. So in Croatia it was.
Speaker 5 (09:51):
But as I was competing with that BMW, I you know,
obviously my parents were supporting me. It was a few
thousand euros for parts. It wasn't it was in nineteen
eighty four BMW with a forkliff elected motor.
Speaker 1 (10:01):
Did your parents understand what you were doing? Yeah?
Speaker 5 (10:03):
No, Like my my mother was like, please just finish university.
She had a job, like mom, Yeah, no, she's a
great mom. My mother is the best mom ever. But
they come you don't understand what Bosnia was when they
were growing up, like today, it's like a hundred years ago.
At that time was like three hundred years ago. Yes,
(10:25):
so she she was living like you know, you wouldn't
be able to imagine that. It's like a house where
the animals are living downstairs and then you have like
a floor which is not ceiling so that the warmth
can come up the living space above.
Speaker 4 (10:40):
They didn't have running water in electricity like.
Speaker 1 (10:43):
That in the Middle East as well.
Speaker 4 (10:44):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (10:44):
Yeah, so that's you know, just one generation ago. Yes,
that's how my where I'm coming from.
Speaker 3 (10:51):
It's insane that you have developed a technology that's really
like a generation ahead as well.
Speaker 4 (10:57):
Yeah, that shows like how society today.
Speaker 5 (11:00):
I think it's it's amazing that, you know, someone from
where I was born can do this kind of stuff today.
Speaker 2 (11:07):
You know, I think was so convincing when you're asking
people to give you money and you are a random guy,
you know, with a green BMW saying.
Speaker 4 (11:18):
I'll tell you the story.
Speaker 3 (11:19):
How did you.
Speaker 1 (11:19):
Convince him to give you money?
Speaker 2 (11:21):
I have.
Speaker 5 (11:24):
A thousand doors. So I didn't know how fundraising works
like today. You know, you can listen to podcasts, you
can see YouTube videos. I had no idea, no idea
how this works. I didn't know what a pitch deck is,
what pitching is, what the business.
Speaker 4 (11:36):
I had no idea.
Speaker 5 (11:37):
So as I was racing there, I was quite famous
in I mean it was being at Yeah, it was
in the media and there was a guy who came
to me and he said, look, I'm working for a
royal family in the Middle Least. They're always looking for
interesting stuff, like do you have something that you can
show me, maybe they would be interested. So and I
was quite good at that. So I built like a
(11:59):
little brochure which looked really nice. I still have it
where I had the first sketches of the car I
wanted to build.
Speaker 4 (12:05):
There was no car. There was nothing.
Speaker 5 (12:07):
It was just sketches and like specifications like speed, exploration,
power weight, but it was not real. There was nothing,
and he took that for sure. He went to Abu
Dhabi and he said, great, they want to buy two cars.
I was like, okay, but there's no cars, there's no company.
And then he asked me the next day, okay, so
what do you need to make that? Wow, they might
(12:28):
want to invest.
Speaker 4 (12:30):
And I was like, I don't know.
Speaker 5 (12:31):
So I sit down and build a business plan, and
of course I had no idea what I need. So
I said to develop that car, I need foe and
a half million euros. But I had no idea. I
didn't know any one person from the out industry. I
didn't know anyone, and they were like, okay, here's a
term sheet, and I get a term sheet, and I
was looking for a lawyer in Croatio who on the
(12:51):
stands a bench capital term sheet, and I couldn't find
a lawyer. So I was sitting there with a lawyer
who was telling me like, hmm, drag along probably means that,
and I'm like, no, that doesn't sound like it means that,
like tag along rite the first fusal like they didn't
understand it because there were no venture capital deals done
in Croatia anyway. So we had an agreement and they
want They were supposedly the lest four and a half million,
(13:15):
and I had two milestones. One was to show the
car at the Frankfurt Auto Show, which was nine months
later in September of twenty eleven, and then I had
to to deliver them two cars. So I started to
hire people, but no one from the outodustry. I couldn't
afford to bring in Germans, Italians or whatever. Just a
(13:36):
few Croatian guys that I knew were skilled, and I
rented the facility. So in April, first of April, I
had three employees joining me. I broke five FI in
Guinness World Records for the BMW and I rented the building,
so we had five months to develop and build a car,
all of us doing it for the first time, and
(13:57):
the investors just paid like a couple of hundred thousand,
and I said, off, but they screwed me.
Speaker 4 (14:04):
So what do you mean?
Speaker 5 (14:06):
I so I just convinced the wives of the guys
that worked for me that they can give up their
safe and secure jobs to work for a twenty old
guy who wants to make an electric supercar with some
Arab investors blah blah, which they did. They left their
secure jobs to work for me. I rented the building,
ordered parts and was expecting that the Arabs will do
(14:28):
their part. But after dragging it, you know, in contracts
and whatever, I flew to the Middle East and they
were like, we don't believe in Croatia and doing it there.
And I was super patriotic, which was a big mistake
also from my side, but it is what it is.
I really wanted to do, like to prove that you
can do it in crazy and I was like, so
they said, if you want our money, you have to
(14:49):
move to I would w to do it there, and
I was like, screw you.
Speaker 4 (14:52):
I'm not doing that.
Speaker 5 (14:54):
I want to do this in Croatia, and they were furious,
like no one says no to us. So I didn't
get anything from them anymore. And I was broke the
moment I started. I couldn't pay my guys, I couldn't
pay the rent, couldn't pay supplies.
Speaker 4 (15:07):
It was a disaster.
Speaker 5 (15:08):
But I thought like, okay, somehow we'll scribble the car
together and we will show it at the Frankfurt Auto
Show and they will be investors flooding our doors. So
we did finish the car, and like the electricity company
came to cut our electricity because we didn't pay the bill,
the land World throwing us out of the building. Like
I couldn't pay the guys for their salaries. We worked
(15:31):
day night. It was a disaster. And then we came
into Frankfurt Auto Show, still building the car in the
truck that was driving there the way to the show.
On the way to the show, and there were people
interested in customers and so on. I was twenty years old.
I had no idea what I was doing, so I
believed when people said that they would buy the car
and so on, but ninety percent of that never materializes.
(15:54):
Then I had to figure out the way to survive.
So I just wanted to make my own car. But
then like, how do we Like, we don't have money,
we are in debt, Like the suppliers are calling us,
they are threatening to sue me and stuff like that.
So I was like, Okay, let's do anything that brings
in money now. So we started to do things for
the outo industry, building prototypes, developing batteries, powetrys and so.
Speaker 4 (16:16):
On, and they just barely barely barely.
Speaker 5 (16:18):
Kept the lights on. So we took on projects that
no one else would ever touch. They were so crazy
and complexity, timing and costs, like being super cheap auto.
Like initially it was like small country.
Speaker 3 (16:29):
The timing and the timing is already making me nervous
as you're telling the story.
Speaker 4 (16:34):
Yeah it was.
Speaker 5 (16:34):
It was awesome. My first ten years. I cannot believe,
Like looking back, I would never go through it again.
I don't think I could go through it. It was
a fucking disaster. And then when we proved ourselves, you know,
we started to do more and more bigger stuff, Like
we started like our first World Card project was the
Cunies regera battery. We were like twenty people at that time.
(16:55):
Then we did the battery for s Martin val Kyrie.
Then we started to do stuff for bigger car companies,
and then investors came in. The first investor, so I
bootstrapped the company for the first years. Then investors started
coming in. Then in two those eighteen portion investors for
the first time eighteen million. That was like a big
seal of approval. That was the first investment they ever did.
And then Hunda invested and then the big guys started
(17:16):
coming in and I raised a billion euros in the meantime.
Speaker 3 (17:19):
I mean, I want to I want to talk about
the Nevara, and you asked one question. Yeah, before that,
I want to. I haven't a lot of questions before
that was my point, like I before we get to
the Navara, I was going to say, because I know
it's so cool, and I've talked to I've interviewed Nico
Rosberg about it and he was so excited. And I
(17:40):
know Luka Dankic got one as well. And Hannah and
I talk about the records that you make all the time,
but you do still a lot of work for other automakers, right,
I mean you I heard you have built a huge
campus now in Croatia, and you still do a lot
of other work besides just your Remax stuff.
Speaker 5 (18:01):
Absolutely, so we have now three companies. So now, the
original company that I founded was called Emats Automobile, like
a car company. But then you know, the majority of
the business was actually doing other stuff for other car companies.
And then when we did the Bugatti deal five years ago,
we split the company in two. So the car stuff
became Bugatti Remas. The tech stuff that we do for
(18:22):
other automakes became Remats Technology. And in the meantime I
founded a third company called vern which is a robotaxi business.
So in totally are two and a half thousand employees.
Around a thousand employees is the Bugatti Remas stuff, around
a thousand three hundred employees is the tech for other companies,
and around a couple of one hundred employees for the robotaxi.
(18:45):
So the tech company is making batteries, powertrains, electronics stuff
like that for many other car companies BMW, Porsche, for
Bugatti as well. I mean Tech is a supplier to
Bugatti and for Emats for some stuff for some parts.
We have five billion euros of orders from other car companies,
(19:06):
for example from BMW that's one of our biggest customers,
Porsche as well, and so on. And we are scaling
that out now big time in Croatia with a huge
new factory that's already completely full, so many of the
cars that are coming from the market or.
Speaker 3 (19:18):
And that's the like, this is what is now making
me feel so good that as a kid, you were
so patriotic that you refuse to move the business out
and you'd hire these guys who you know went with
you and quit their you know, secure jobs, and now
you're putting food on the table for like thousands of
(19:40):
families in Croatia. Like what an incredible feel good story, right.
Speaker 5 (19:45):
Yeah, And it's like we created the whole industry in creation.
It didn't exist before. Like the most that was done
in Croatia before like was like glasses for cars, like
small suppliers, you know, and now you know, we had
to up in the most complex cars. They're like when
you walk into our campus, you see like huge production
lines that are fully automated, as robotized. And at the
(20:08):
same time, you know, in the same building we built
Bugatti's they're developed there and it's great. If someone told
you that fifteen years ago that that would be happening
in Croatia, no one would have Or if.
Speaker 3 (20:18):
Someone told your mom, Dude, if someone told your mom like,
don't worry, he doesn't need to finish university. He's gonna
build a national champion.
Speaker 1 (20:28):
Never have come back.
Speaker 2 (20:30):
Tell us about the robotaxi business, because obviously that's a
really big thing everyone's talking about, you know, robo taxis.
Speaker 1 (20:39):
Fill us in on that.
Speaker 4 (20:40):
Okay.
Speaker 5 (20:40):
So I was invited a lot to speak at different events,
at industry events and like to managements of large companies,
like they wanted like, oh, this young guy, you know
he's doing electrifications on let's let him tell us about it.
Speaker 4 (20:55):
Because they were like, oh my god, the industry is changing.
Speaker 5 (20:58):
Everything's going elexic freaking out, yeah, freaking out, and like
it's such a big change. And then I'm My speech
to them was like, what are you talking about? Nothing
is changing. Like you used to buy injection systems or
gearboxes or exhaust systems from Bosh Continental, Theresamie whatever, and
you build it into the car and then you sell
(21:19):
the car to the dealer. The dealer sells it to
the customer, and then the customer goes to the gas station,
owns the car, runs the car, brings it back to
you for service.
Speaker 4 (21:27):
So today everything is the same. The only thing that changes.
Speaker 5 (21:30):
You don't buy an exhaust system from Continental, you buy
an inverter, you buy a likely motory, you buy battery sells.
You make a car, you sell it to the dealer,
The dealer sells it to the customer, the customer owns
and runs it, and the customer doesn't go to the
gas station. But that that doesn't change anything for the
car manufacturers. What really changes the game is when you
don't own and don't drive the cars anymore. Everything changes,
(21:52):
like who is the players and who is the power
in that industry completely changes. You know, Google will come
with a spec sheet of six hundred pay just to
ten manufacturers and will say, dear Volkswagen, for Renault, who
can build me this car that I have designed for
the cheapest And they are just going to be a
white label manufacturer.
Speaker 4 (22:12):
That changes everything. Soigation is nothing.
Speaker 5 (22:16):
And I was giving that speech years and then an
investor came. I met him at an event and he
was like, you're making cool cars. I'll give you a
lot of money and let's compete against Tesla. And I
was like, I don't think that's a good idea. That's
like starting a CD player company in two thousand and five,
Like you can make the best CD player in the world,
(22:39):
but the iPhone is coming, iTunes is coming, it doesn't matter,
like to develop a car with the sewering wheel. So
I was like, you know, and I was talking about
it so much. I was like, Okay, you know what,
I really believe in this, I'm going to do it.
Speaker 4 (22:54):
So I started a company to develop robotaxis with a
different view.
Speaker 5 (23:00):
I mean, I think, you know, everyone is so focused
on the self driving aspect itself. I think that's a
big problem. But once it's solved, and we are close
to having it solved, as you.
Speaker 1 (23:10):
Know, technology wise, technology.
Speaker 5 (23:12):
I mean I'm not saying we, but like way more Tesla.
You know, many players are working on that. You know,
then it's solved, then it's about many more things like
the user experience, the safety, how do you feel the
best and use that time that you now have gained,
you know. Society capitalist society has to always grow and
predativity has to increase. One of the ways that productivity
(23:33):
has increased those the last two decades was that you
are always online. Hasn't been the case before, and now
you know, we are always online and the next productivity
gain okay ai, but also having more time, like you
commute one hour in average per pay, so getting that
time back, you know you're productive not just for working,
(23:56):
but also as a consumer or to do whatever you want.
Speaker 4 (23:59):
You know.
Speaker 5 (24:00):
So I fundamentally believe that this will change society. People
who are not in a position to drive today because
they are I don't know, too young, they don't have
a there's license, they are too old, they are blind.
Whatever we'll be able to get around will not rely
on other people. It's you know, people say a lot
of people lose jobs, yes, but so that was a situation.
(24:21):
Also when you know elevators had a elevator, boy.
Speaker 4 (24:26):
No one has missing those jobs.
Speaker 5 (24:27):
No one will miss the miserable jobs of truck drivers
sitting in a little room.
Speaker 4 (24:32):
For a whole you know day for weeks.
Speaker 2 (24:36):
I just.
Speaker 5 (24:38):
I just think that this will really change society and
there's lots of opportunity with it. I never believed in
making a high volume carve for us. I never wanted
to go out to Testa and I was like, Okay,
how can you have a bigger impact, How can Kreatia
become really a big player in the out industry.
Speaker 3 (24:54):
That's how it's amazing, such an amazing story. And we
haven't even gotten to the record breaking hypercar yet. Tell
us a little bit about the Neva, because did you
only make like one hundred and fifty of them?
Speaker 4 (25:10):
Or want to take one hundred and fifty? But the
market is not there, you know.
Speaker 5 (25:15):
We we sold around seventy seventy five, which is like
the highest it's the most successful electric sports car in
the world.
Speaker 4 (25:23):
It's you know, it's my baby. I shed so much
blood for that car.
Speaker 3 (25:27):
And it costs What does it cost to buy one?
Speaker 5 (25:30):
The Neva started from two million, The Nevera R is
two point three plus the options. So from let's say
two million until three million is the pricing.
Speaker 4 (25:39):
And you know, the customers who have it love it.
Speaker 5 (25:41):
But I realized, you know, and I was public about it,
shooting myself a little bit in the foot, But that's
how I am that. You know, people in this market,
they just don't want electric cars. And I compared it
to watches, you know, like I mean, I'm an Apple watch,
and this watch can do everything better than a Ptec Philip,
(26:04):
than a Rolex whatever, and can do thousand things more,
just like the Neveda is better in so many things
than combustion hypercars. But no one is paying two hundred
thousand for an Apple Watch.
Speaker 3 (26:16):
It's funny because I agree one hundred percent, and yet
I still would prefer to wear my Rolex Mechanical watch,
even though the Apple Watch does everything that. Now I
wear a Whoop band as well, so I wear two things.
But I just you know, it's it's the same with cars.
(26:38):
I have had such incredible experience as in electric cars
over this last year, I've really been a convert because
they're so quick. You know, in New York traffic, a
lot of times you want to be darting in and
out between other cars. And it's much safer an electric
car because you have that instant torque. And yet I
(26:58):
really love the vibration and the smell, the feel, the
sound of an old technology gasoline car with no turbo
chargers and big displacement. And I mean, look, you have
also spanned both sides of the aisle right because you
have Rimac and the Navara on the one hand, but
you also work so closely with Bugatti, and you brought
(27:20):
the how do you call it? Turbillone to life there.
Tell us about, you know, your endeavor into the IC
side of the business.
Speaker 4 (27:30):
Well, you know, I'm a car guy.
Speaker 5 (27:31):
I have a car collection just like you said, Like,
if you look at my car collection, it's all combustion cars,
many of them old, you know, like Porti, Karagi TV
ten actually aspirated, or like a BMW E thirty nine
V eight and at sheally aspirated. You know that kind
of stuff. And when I was asked by folks finding
to take the company or to take Bugattio or they
were like they're thinking, was Bugatti needs to go electric.
(27:55):
This guy's making like the supercars, so let's give it
to him. He'll make, you know, transition Bugatti to electric.
And then when I took over, I was like, no, wait, guys,
this is wrong.
Speaker 1 (28:04):
Like how did that go over the They.
Speaker 5 (28:07):
Were like screaming at me, like you don't know what
you're talking about, Like you you have no idea how
to develop a hybrid car. You don't know what it
takes to develop a combustion engine. I was like, yeah,
before I developed nevera I was in high school, so
high school too. To develop my own car from ground
up in a country that never did it with super
limited resources is a bigger step than going from that
(28:31):
to develop the turbion. So what I did was so
the emats funded to develop That's an interesting story actually,
So I contacted Costward to develop a V sixteen and
actually asked for an engine and they were like So
I called out of the blue the general manager of
Costword bruce Wood, great guy by the way, and I
was like, hey, you know, you might have heard of
(28:52):
this electric car company from Creatia emails. That's me, you know,
and like, here comes an unusual request. How about can
you developed a sixteen cylinder natural spread engine with the
thousand horsepower? He was like, okay, yeah, why not? So
we started to develop that before I took and so
what I wanted to do was to bring it so
(29:12):
far to get rid of all the nose that folks
and Porsche we are saying, like all of the reasons
why to not do it. So we funded it without
knowing if the deal would come true. So we paid
the development of the sixteen cylinder engine as an electric
car company.
Speaker 4 (29:29):
Crazy thing.
Speaker 5 (29:30):
The biggest car, the biggest engine in the world has
been developed, the biggest road car engine has been developed
by an electric car company.
Speaker 4 (29:37):
Great for two years, and.
Speaker 5 (29:39):
Then when I took Bugatti over, I was like, you know,
presented them with everything, and for every no they had
and for every concern, we already we already built a prototype,
the durability rounds, We knew how much it would cost,
we knew emissions, we knew everything. And then they were
like like, okay, okay, go go like do it. And
today when I talk about it about it with them,
(30:01):
they're like, oh, thanks God, Like because if the if
the Tourbion was electric, even being a Bugatti, even being beautiful,
now they've been a disaster.
Speaker 2 (30:09):
Wow. Can I ask, though, you know, everyone we're saying, okay,
people don't want an electric supercar right now. In the end,
are we still getting to a world of electric cars?
Speaker 4 (30:22):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (30:23):
Okay, So this is something that you know, I've been
talking a lot to dealers and about dealers lately, and
the dealers are not wanting to sell electric cars. Yes,
but in the long run, and tell me if I'm wrong,
we are still going electric.
Speaker 5 (30:34):
Absolutely, and it makes a lot of sense I'm not
anti electric car, yeah forbid. You know, I think it's
a great technology, just like with watches. So ninety percent
of watches are digital, but ninety percent of the profits
of watchmaking come from the extent of the Swiss watches,
ninety percent of the profits. So I think majority of
(30:57):
cars will be electric, and it makes so much sense.
It's so much better, no question about that. What I
don't like is government mandate that it needs to be pushed, like,
you know, make the cars better and cheaper and the
customers will take them.
Speaker 4 (31:11):
You know, don't mandate.
Speaker 5 (31:13):
It, because that's what gets you the in creation, we
have a word for dishbet I don't know how to backlash.
Speaker 3 (31:19):
We have backlash in the US, right. You have people
who don't want to be told what to do by
big brother, and so if you mandate it, they will
immediately go the other way. I'm kind of like that myself.
Speaker 5 (31:31):
Exactly, yeah, exactly exactly. That's that's the thing. So you
have that today, you know, that's what people are like.
They feel repelled by this push of like why do
you want to take combustion cars away from me? So yes,
But on the other side, like think about it, in
this way. So even if one hundred percent of sales
of cars are electric new cars, it takes still a
(31:54):
decade to replace the fleet. So if you look at
the parking lot, like when we'll like look at this
parking lot over there. So maybe five percent or ten
percent of cars on that parking lot today are electric.
When will that parking lot be one hundred percent electric?
I say never? Why because it will be thirty forty percent,
So not market share, that's a different thing. Thirty percent
(32:16):
maybe of all the cars on the road will be electric,
and then the parking lot will disappear, Yeah, because it
will be autonomous. I see, that's my view.
Speaker 3 (32:25):
Yeah, well, or maybe much smaller because some people still
want to drive the turbion right.
Speaker 5 (32:31):
Absolutely, And you know, I don't want to take ownership
like some people think that I want to take ownership
away from people. Whatever, it's a choice. Like you know, horses.
Everyone used to have horses, Like my mother still had
horses to pull stuff around, not because it was like
fancy riding, but the work. And everyone used to have them. Today,
(32:52):
none forbids you to have them. If it's so important
to you, if you so much much like it too,
you know, have the investment four horse the time, you know,
the effort.
Speaker 1 (33:02):
To Georgina Bloomberg, perfect example. You know you can still Austrian.
Of course, I think it's course.
Speaker 3 (33:09):
Katie Greefeld, my co anchor on Open Interest, she every
day she leaves this office and goes to ride her horse.
But obviously ninety nine percent of the employees in this
building do not do that.
Speaker 4 (33:22):
Right.
Speaker 5 (33:22):
Yeah, but you know, if you think about the car,
like you worry about it more than about yourself. You
take it to service more often than you go to
a doctor. You worry about parking, cleaning, whatever. It's a
hassle and if you're used to it, our generation is
used to it. But like someone born today has to
go three months to get the driver's license, has to
have the second investment of their life, second largest investment
(33:43):
after their housing, being a car, and so on, most
people will say, no, why when I have a super
convenient option of an autonomous car driving me around. Some
people will still make that choice, and great, I'm one
of them. I will have cars, but I think most
people won't.
Speaker 4 (33:57):
You know that changes.
Speaker 3 (33:58):
One thing that's hilarious is the thought experiment. I recently
saw someone saying like, what if we started with electric
cars and then one hundred years later somebody was like, Hey,
I have a new idea. Let's do an internal combustion engine.
We use oil from the ground and it makes explosions
in the car. It's super noisy, it's really smelly, it's
(34:21):
very polluting, and you drive around like that and somebody'll
be like, that's a horrible idea.
Speaker 4 (34:26):
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2 (34:27):
Well electric cars initially we're marketed toward women right as yes, quiet,
easy to.
Speaker 1 (34:33):
Maintain and start.
Speaker 2 (34:34):
You know, it's the car you buy your wife at
the other turn of the century, the previously. But I'm curious,
are are tariffs uh disruptive to your business and what
you're doing?
Speaker 4 (34:47):
Well, it's uncertainty.
Speaker 1 (34:49):
It's the uncertainty.
Speaker 4 (34:50):
Yah.
Speaker 5 (34:50):
Yeah, Like you know, so we have so around forty
of our market is US. So we'll got to you
for example, Uh, and we offered our customs is like okay,
you know you want to keep you want to.
Speaker 4 (35:02):
Get the car to the US, or you want to
keep it in Europe. And we see what happens.
Speaker 5 (35:06):
And this year so we are delivering in Bugatti Mistral
It's limited to ninety nine cars, thirty five of them
are going to the US, and we asked our customers
and one guy said, I'm.
Speaker 4 (35:16):
Too rich and too like ship over, so he must be.
Speaker 5 (35:23):
She paid the theref The other ones kept the cars
in storage Europe. And now that it's fifteen percent, you know,
just now talking here to our customers to see if
they're finding it or we need to maybe sell the
cars to a different location.
Speaker 4 (35:34):
But fifteen percent, I think it's quite okay.
Speaker 5 (35:37):
Like when I buy a car in Croatia, in the
car I made myself, I have to pay a lot
more taxes for car made in Europe.
Speaker 4 (35:43):
Sure, So I think fifteen.
Speaker 5 (35:44):
Percent is like there, okay, And yeah, I guess that
will stay for a while. So as long as that's
now the start is quo and it stays stable, I
think that's fine.
Speaker 1 (35:56):
Fine.
Speaker 2 (35:57):
Another question for you, and this is a crazy pivot,
but would Bugatti or Rimac ever become involved in motorsport
like in as a as a branded factory team?
Speaker 4 (36:09):
Yeah? Why not? I mean I started with racing, right Yeah.
Speaker 3 (36:12):
And Bugatti also has an incredible obviously racing pedigree.
Speaker 2 (36:16):
I mean it seems like everybody is joining, whether it's
Whack or you know F one.
Speaker 5 (36:21):
Or just yesterday I had a discussion about that with
some people.
Speaker 1 (36:25):
Here is that on the table at all?
Speaker 5 (36:27):
You know, one thing I love about racing is that
it's pushing technology forward like war. You know, people getting hurt.
It's like war for technology. But that has not been
the case recently because of things like balance of performance,
where you get basically get penalized for being better.
Speaker 1 (36:46):
We've talked about that on this show.
Speaker 3 (36:47):
Nobody that's what except for Ferrari loves it.
Speaker 5 (36:51):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, those who play good politics they like it.
So I hate that, and that's why I didn't race.
So we break records all the time and so on,
so we push the limits in other fields.
Speaker 4 (37:02):
However, I'm interested in racing.
Speaker 5 (37:04):
I'm looking at it, and at some point we might
join some racing, but I just hate that. Road cars,
or let's say when we as a brand or other
brands also build cars that are not that I let's
say track cars, but not for for racing series. They
are more advanced like torque acturing, traction control, active aodynamics.
You know, these are things that you can't do in
(37:26):
racing today, and what's the point of racing. Then it's
like it's a show. It's a circus, you know.
Speaker 2 (37:32):
So excitement, hype, marketing for the brand you get.
Speaker 5 (37:38):
Yeah, fine, okay, but I am about substance, like doing
a show just to hype.
Speaker 4 (37:44):
It's it's like wrestling, you know, like w W. Yeah, yeah,
it's like what.
Speaker 2 (37:48):
Uh huh I mean there are a lot of people
who love wrestling.
Speaker 3 (37:52):
Well, I think I think the argument is I watched
Moto GP a lot, right, and they're getting new regulations
next year that is going to limit the amount of
electronics you can use and also reduce the motor and
the arrow because they want the human to still play
a big role in it. If you let it go
(38:12):
too far with the arrow, then it becomes like F
one where the driver doesn't really matter as much and
instead you pay some old guy forty nine million dollars
a year to year aerodynamics. Right, So they want the
kids to be part of it. By the way, dude,
want how would you do endurance racing with an electric car?
Because I guess you could swap out the battery.
Speaker 5 (38:35):
Lost battery, but the stints are not. You would be
a lot shorter on the track, Like it's not there yet.
Speaker 3 (38:42):
Not twenty four hours not possible.
Speaker 5 (38:45):
I mean yes, but you would not be competitive with
electric cars today.
Speaker 4 (38:48):
It's just like it's just the batteries will be too heavy.
Speaker 5 (38:52):
You would have to get in the pits much more
often than than combustion cars. Just you know, energy density,
Like all cars that have pretty efficient combustion engines there
are at like forty plus percent efficiency and electric motors
like ninety percent efficient. But fuel is ten times more
energy dense storage compared to batteries, so you are double
(39:16):
efficient with the motor, but you are ten times less
efficient with the battery storage. So basically it will be
five times less you know, simple mathematics. But just about
the human aspect. I understand what you're saying, and you know,
I'm very pro human all of that. But there's so
many sports where it's all about the athlete, you know, tennis, football, basketball, whatever,
(39:40):
it's all about the person, whatever, hill climbing, so many things.
But why not have a few racing series where it's
about the technology, the racing teams, you know, pushing stuff
over it, it's about new materials.
Speaker 4 (39:55):
You know, human is also part of it.
Speaker 1 (39:57):
But like you don't think Formula E is that?
Speaker 3 (40:00):
Yeah, well, Formula one is that already you know.
Speaker 5 (40:04):
One yeah, for is very restricted as well in terms
of regulation because they want to get the cost down
for teams to be able to compete.
Speaker 3 (40:11):
That's very that's a very good point, mate, Like if
you if you say it's unlimited, then you're going to
come in with one or two players that spend hundreds
and hundreds and hundreds of millions of dollars and no
one else can compete.
Speaker 1 (40:23):
But that would push the technology forward.
Speaker 5 (40:25):
That was how it was like in the twenties and
the thirties, Like this stuff, the technology has been invented
for them in the twenties, thirties, forties, it's incredible, Like
the first I think wipers have been invented for the more,
the first disc breaks, the first I believe headlights as well.
You know, Like the list is very long, and it
(40:47):
benefited road cars in the end. Like what's the benefit
we get today from racing and road cars?
Speaker 3 (40:52):
Not that much really, No, So what's it like when
you're back in Croatia, where's the samobor where's the it's
just also and when you're driving around there or if
you're driving around Split which you know a lot of
Americans know in a turbijon. What do the kids say,
you know, is everybody just freaking out?
Speaker 5 (41:15):
Yeah, it's It became such a normal sight to see
Bugatti or a prototype of another car, Like I go everywhere,
Like I just came from Croatia from Split a couple
of days ago. I spent my summer in a Bugatti Hiron,
you know, I leave it on the like Croatia is
super safe. It's the safest country in Europe. Like you,
(41:35):
I leave my Bugatti everywhere on the side of the road,
you know, I go hiking with that car and leave
it in the woods. And it became just so normal
to see a Bugatti or in a Vera in Croatia
that most people don't pay attention. But the kids, they
go crazy. They come up, they want to take photos.
I let them always start the engine.
Speaker 3 (41:52):
So, by the way, dude, what else, what else do
you want to do? I mean, you're only thirty seven, so,
like you still have your whole life ahead of you
after having done all of this. You built your own company,
you turned it into a national champion. You're running you know, legendary,
you know, historically significant Bugatti, Like is there anything do
(42:17):
you want to do anything outside of cars.
Speaker 5 (42:19):
I mean, one thing I messed up is I'm thirty seven.
I don't have kids, so it's not too late.
Speaker 3 (42:25):
I had my first when I was forty six. You
have time for that.
Speaker 4 (42:29):
Oh there you go, a big jagger.
Speaker 1 (42:31):
Yeah he's going strong.
Speaker 5 (42:33):
So that's one thing. You know, the population topic, especially
in Europe, you're really screwed. So I want my part
like Elon, Maybe not like him, but yeah, I gotcha,
I hear you.
Speaker 3 (42:47):
Like, but do you think of other stuff? Do you
have ideas outside of cars? Or are you just so
busy with all of your automotive enterprises that you don't
have time.
Speaker 5 (42:59):
The crazy thing is I was thinking about it recently,
and I'm like Jesus Christ. I actually did everything I wanted.
Like I wanted to make the fastest electric sports car
in the world.
Speaker 4 (43:07):
I did that.
Speaker 5 (43:08):
I wanted to make this new generation Bugatti like the
idea had, like you know, the Tourbion. I made a
little model of that, like the size of that car.
When I talked initially with folks Funk about taking the
company over. So I developed the Tourbion like a little thing,
like a little model of it myself, like that's that's
really my baby, the Turbion. I love that car, and like,
(43:30):
now it's there, it exists. Then I wanted to do
a ROBOTAXI. I wanted to develop all of these new
battery technologies and powertrains and stuff like that. I'm like,
and the campus that was like a big baby for me.
And I did all of that, and I'm like, you know,
everything I wanted to do. Beat a ROBOTAXI, beat an
electric hyper car, a hybrid hypercar, a battery technology campus.
(43:54):
I did actually what I wanted. So now I want
to make very successful companies. So I took billion euros
of investors' money. You know, I want to make Bugatti
into the most successful, most profitable car company in the world,
and want to make our employees rich with their stock options.
(44:14):
So yeah, there's still a lot of stuff to do,
and you know, getting the robotaxes to run, getting them
out on the market. Being like you know, you, you
and the usually have am more in Tesla. In Europe,
we don't have anything except what we are doing. I mean,
there's some other people trying to do it as well,
but like I want to be that we.
Speaker 3 (44:34):
By the way, do you ever run into Elon.
Speaker 4 (44:37):
Do you ever talk to Elon American ones? American ones?
Speaker 5 (44:40):
Yeah, and it was I feel like he I mean,
he's being a little bit demonized right now, and I
understand why. You know, when you look at it from
the surface, you know, it's easy to to to put
a stigma on someone you know, and you know, I
don't want to get into politics and st but I
(45:00):
still think he is the most amazing human that lives.
He has the biggest impact on humanity, like sending rockets,
you know, reusable rockets to Mars.
Speaker 4 (45:09):
And I know how he changed the out industry from inside.
Speaker 5 (45:12):
It's a completely different industry because of one guy, because
of him, and it's the second biggest industry in the world,
you know, after food making. So so I think he's amazing
and he's doing amazing things. No one is perfect, nor
is he. But like having met him in person, I
felt like he's like two things I noticed. One he's
(45:32):
the same like when you listen to him on YouTube
or whatever on podcasts. And the second thing is like
he has no he doesn't care. He doesn't give them
what other people are doing. Like when I tell my story,
when people hear a little bit about it. Everyone's like,
well I need to come there. I need to see
what you're doing. And all of the executives in the
out industry they came and see what we're doing.
Speaker 4 (45:51):
He didn't give them, you know.
Speaker 5 (45:53):
He just looks at his own thing and like, yeah, focus,
I can do whatever. You know, whatever needs to be done,
I can do it better than anyone else.
Speaker 4 (46:01):
That's his right.
Speaker 1 (46:04):
Is space appealing to you at all?
Speaker 2 (46:05):
Oh?
Speaker 4 (46:06):
Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 5 (46:07):
I just think like it's depressing because within our lifetimes,
whatever we do, we will not discover like zero one
one percent of you know, Like yeah, so you know,
I'm thinking about this often, Like I mean, you Americans
are maybe a little bit different. I have been working
sixteen years like an animal to build this company, and
I cannot imagine myself like like Elon, you know, he's
(46:28):
seventeen years older than me, like that in seventeen years,
I'm still like that and I just work and like
it's just about like I would maybe like to have
you know, Bugatti as a long term thing for me,
and I would try to restrain myself from starting more
new things. I just want to you know, like also
have you know, I would like family, would love to
(46:50):
be father.
Speaker 1 (46:50):
You know, meaningful in your personal life. This is admirb.
I think that's actually yeah me.
Speaker 3 (46:55):
Too good for you, dude, you deserve it also Jesus
Christ very.
Speaker 2 (46:59):
Well, yes, yes you've and the great words of Mariah Carrey.
You've done enough, You've done enough.
Speaker 3 (47:06):
Well. I really appreciate I really appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (47:10):
Wait, wait, he was gonna say something. Don't do car food.
Speaker 5 (47:14):
Yeah, I think what you are consuming today is you know,
it's uh yeah.
Speaker 1 (47:21):
It's it's not healthy.
Speaker 5 (47:22):
Sustainable, yeah, sustainable, well, sustainable, yes, but like I just
think the way we farm today, and like what you
do to animals. You kill hundred and fifty billion animals
a year. What you consume you know that that's something
I would like love to do if I wouldn't do cars,
or if I have some spare capesty at some point
that that's something I will get into.
Speaker 4 (47:42):
That is we're going to watch.
Speaker 3 (47:43):
Yeah, I'll be watching that. By the way, when you
talk about autos are the second biggest industry after food,
do you mean in terms of people employed or.
Speaker 4 (47:53):
Yeah?
Speaker 5 (47:54):
So I'm not sure if housing or food production is
the first, the ultimatetry is second. As far as I know,
but maybe a housing is real estate is maybe the
first industry like globally.
Speaker 3 (48:06):
Well, let me first say I really appreciate you spending
some time with us. It's been an awesome conversation and
I'm gonna I'm gonna say this is now my favorite
podcast conversation. We've been doing this for over a year, so.
Speaker 1 (48:19):
Yeah, this is really great, Monte. Thank you.
Speaker 2 (48:22):
I'm Matt Miller and I'm Hannah Elliott, and this is
Bloomberg
Hosts And Creators
Hannah Elliott
Matt Miller
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