March 14, 2025 • 55 mins
Hannah and Matt discuss Porsche's struggle to succeed in the world of electric vehicles. Plus, Hannah joins from San Francisco where she talks Dolby Atmos and the new electric Cadillac Escalade IQ. And Matt drives the Lamborghini Urus.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. I'm Matt Miller and
I'm Hannah Elliott and this is Hot Pursuit.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
How are you.
Speaker 1 (00:22):
I'm so good. I'm in San Francisco, so fear new. Yeah,
it's actually really nice here. I'm staying at the Saint Regis,
a very nice hotel. Very This morning I went running
down Mission to the water and ran under the sort
of under the bridge and saw the cool old piers
(00:45):
and actually ran by one of Bloomberg's offices, which was
also very cool. Didn't go inside, but ran past it.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
Right past that office. They have one of my favorite
ice cream shops in the country.
Speaker 1 (00:59):
What's it called your remember it's.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
Called Humphrey and Slocum. Okay, So if you get a
chance before you leave, I recommend you go there.
Speaker 1 (01:08):
Let me just maybe that'll be my lunch. My lunch
an ice cream cone launch.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
Actually, since you went for a run, I feel like
you deserve it. Humphrey Slocum ice cream. They have a
flavor of ice cream called Secret Breakfast, which is which
is bourbon and corn flakes.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
Amazing. That is well within my wheelhouse. Ye actually my drink,
Oh love it? Okay, I do you know San Francisco
very well? I actually don't know it very well.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
No, So I mean I've been there a few times
and I absolutely loved it every time I went there. Yeah,
but that was all before the pandemic.
Speaker 1 (01:49):
Yes, I came once sort of right after the pandemic,
and it was cold and rainy and it was really
really sort of messy. But I'm here for this Escalade
IQ drive, which is under embargo until next week, so
I can't tell you how it drives. But I drove
that yesterday down to almost a half Moon Bay and
(02:11):
it's gorgeous. It's sunny, it's there's been no rain, and
like I said, they really cleaned up the streets, so
it's nice. Last night we went to Dolby's World headquarters. Matt,
you would be so into this, and I actually want
to have these guys come on the podcast. But I
did not realize that Dolby was started in San Francisco
(02:34):
and the Optic, which is Cadillacs sort of mid size sub,
is going to come with Dolby atmost Sound. And so
we got an evening of demonstrations in these incredible studios
at Dolby headquarters, and I kind of I met. I
(02:54):
was really rolling my eyes when we first went in, like,
you know, I'm here to talk about the car at
some sound system. But by the end of the night
time I know, we sat in a studio session with
the producer who mixed Kendrick's Super Bowl period and has
done a bunch of things with like Sizza. He remastered
(03:15):
Bob Marley's recording.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
Ah, there's a name I recognize.
Speaker 1 (03:20):
Yeah, an incredible person, and he kind of showed us
how it worked. And then I sat with the head
of business for Dolby in this optic and we listened
to Chaka Khan and Tiesto and The Weekend, And honestly,
by the end, I was like, wow, I had my
attitude completely flipped. It was actually very cool.
Speaker 2 (03:41):
That is cool. So I think a good sound system
is so important, at least for me, right because there
you do. I love to listen to music when I drive.
It's part of the experience a lot of the time.
I know some people say I only listened to the
motor you know, but.
Speaker 1 (03:56):
You know I talked about that. I actually I brought
that up with Tim who's the head of business, and
I said, you know, a lot of the people that
the guys that I hang out with, you know, there's
definitely a strong contingent who believed that you should only
listen to the motor in a car. And he had
never heard about that, but he had had He was shocked.
I mean, as someone for him, one of the joys
(04:19):
of driving is listening to music, and he had actually
literally never heard that there would be a type of
person who believed you should only listen to the motor
of a vehicle. And he did think that was a
little bit nuts. It was really it was really fascinating,
and you know, the to finish that point, he did say, look,
(04:39):
cars are actually a really big growth segment for sound
because for so long, sound and in cars has been
an afterthought, like you talk about all the time.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
That, yeah, it bothers me, especially on you know, high
end vehicles like the Escalade. I drove a couple cars
this last week that had amazing sound systems. Actually, but look,
if I'm going to spend six figures on a car,
I want it to have a really good sound system.
(05:10):
Because the manufacturer only has to spend I don't know,
two grand to put in a decent sound system, three
grand and if I need to do it after market,
it's going to cost me ten.
Speaker 1 (05:22):
I know, I know, and plus just the inconvenience of
having to deal with that and be without your car
for a while too. I mean time again, like for
people who are buying six figure vehicles, maybe it's not
even the money issue, it's the time issue. And it
really kind of put like kills the buzz when you
(05:42):
get a new car and you instantly want to send
it away to like get a decent sound.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
So wait, you can't talk about the Escalade IQ yet.
Speaker 1 (05:51):
I can't talk about driving it, but I can.
Speaker 2 (05:53):
Talk about it. Can you talk about the stereo?
Speaker 1 (05:56):
Yeah? Well, so here's the problem. And I need to
really pinpoint this with Cadillac. And I didn't have a
chance last night because I was too gaga over the speakers.
But the Escalade is not going to be offering Dolby
atmost until next year. The Optic have Dolby atmost standard,
(06:17):
this is the new optic coming out, but the Escalade
will not, even though they are currently selling the Escalate
IQ right now. And I'm I'm ashamed to say that
My first question was not why aren't you offering it now?
I was I was too distracted. But that is the question.
Why are they not offering that now in their premiere
(06:37):
premium you know, big big. I'll find out and get
back to you, because it would seem completely natural. You'd
want your best thing in the best car, in the
top of the line.
Speaker 2 (06:50):
Yeah, I mean so many vehicles like so, I configure
Chevy vehicles all the time. Lately, I've been building Sierra
HD pickup trucks, and a lot of times they only
offer the good stereo system, which is only marginally better
than the medium stereo system in the higher spec trims. So,
(07:12):
for instance, I noticed I was building a pickup truck
and I was picking the trim that cost twenty thousand
dollars more because I wanted the you know, five hundred
dollars better stereo system. I think they really can make
a lot of money up selling people with that trick,
and they should obviously do that with the Escalade.
Speaker 1 (07:33):
IQ come absolutely, I mean, gosh, it makes total sense.
I will say I did have a demonstration, like I
said in the in the optic, and it sounds like
it makes at most is a thing and maybe you
know this where basically it's a third dimension to listening
where stereo you sort of have right and left. Of course,
(07:55):
we started with mono sound and then we went to
stereo with you know, right and left input in your ears.
And now at Most basically takes that three D and
it gives the music the ability to be moving around you.
Maybe you knew that.
Speaker 2 (08:14):
To do that, right, It's.
Speaker 1 (08:15):
It's surround sound is still static. It's not actively moving
the sound around you in the same way that Atmost is.
At Most is a completely dynamic sound experience, so that
when you are listening to something, you know, they could
have the background singers sound like they're behind you and
(08:36):
then move that sound in front of you in a
way that surround sound can't replicate. So it's it's more like,
you know, if you're listening to sound and it's muted colors.
This is just this just makes everything seem more vibrant,
more alive, more dimensional. And that sounds a little woo woo,
(08:59):
but really you can hear the difference. Everything just sounds
more present, more real. It's you know, we listened to
some prints and you could hear him breathing in You
could hear like I was hearing rasps in his voice.
That I don't hear when I just listen on my headphones.
Speaker 2 (09:19):
Interesting, so they already do. I'm looking at the website.
By the way, I love the look of the Escalade IQ,
And I think I told you when I was riding
with these Harley guys in Austin. I saw one drive
by and for me it was like super exciting, but
no one else really got it.
Speaker 1 (09:38):
You told me that, and that was really cool.
Speaker 2 (09:40):
Yeah, So to me it's like a range Rover beater
if you I mean. I haven't driven it, so I
don't know, but I know I love the other big
GM EV trucks. So I'm looking at the configurator. The
base model, the Luxury one is one thirty. Then you
(10:01):
can step up to the Sport for one thirty five hundred.
I guess it's just like you get different looking wheels
and maybe blacked out pieces, right, But you have to
step up to the Luxury too for one fifty before
you get the AKG thirty six speaker upgraded stereo systems.
So you see what I mean. They do it with
(10:22):
this too. They add twenty grand, and of course there
are other differences, but to get the good stereo system
you have to jump up, and yes, I usually I'm
willing to do that. I'm the sucker that they're looking for,
you know.
Speaker 1 (10:38):
I mean, if you have them, if you can't afford it,
I totally agree. I would do it too. I do
think it's worth it. And I even think one hundred
and fifty grand for that vehicle isn't outrageous having driven it,
I so so much.
Speaker 2 (10:55):
Money if you think about, you know, our history outside
of this last few years, that's so much money to
pay for. I mean, you could get a GT three
for that much, you know, pre pandemic. It's just a
big price.
Speaker 1 (11:12):
To pre pandemic is six years ago now, basically, I know,
I know, I mean a GT three now is more
expensive than that.
Speaker 2 (11:19):
Do you think, By the way I was wondering, I
feel like there's a certain price point at which and
maybe this is it. When you get above it, a
higher price is like an additional an additional enticement. So
like so like you you're gonna pay more for a
(11:39):
bigger motor, You're gonna pay more for a sweet design.
You're gonna pay more for like a luxury interior. And
at a certain price point, you're gonna pay more for
a higher price because the buyer that can will is
that does that track to you?
Speaker 1 (11:54):
Yes, there's a name for this, and I'm forgetting the name.
But there was some analyst who who really studied luxury markets,
and it's exactly what you're describing.
Speaker 2 (12:05):
It becomes a feature, not.
Speaker 1 (12:06):
A bug, exactly once you pass a certain level. There
is a type of fire that will question something unless
it's priced very high. You know, if they have the
option of two, they will always default to the more
expensive one, even if it's no better and really no different,
(12:27):
simply because it's more expensive. You know that there is
a name for it. It's escaping me now, but I
think that's exactly right. You know, when we're talking about
all of these like modified reimagined cars and restomods that
are a million dollars or more now and obviously like
Singers one of them, when you think of the TWR,
(12:48):
which is starts at under three hundred thousand, it almost
makes you think, why isn't that car worth like why
doesn't that car cost more? Yes, you know, yes, because
you get so used to what you think is the
prevailing wisdom about how much one of those cars should cost,
it really kind of it plays with reality a little bit.
Speaker 2 (13:11):
I mean, so I think that's probably true. And we
were looking with Barry Ritholts at this Porsche, these backdated Porschas.
I can't remember the name of the brand. It was
like Abriu or something, and they were only like three
point fifty probably on top of the Donor. But it
automatically makes you wonder what they're not adding that singer
does add, which.
Speaker 1 (13:32):
Which I think is kind of nothing, like it's actually nothing.
There's there's really no probably difference. I don't I don't
remember the name of the brand, but you know, so.
Speaker 2 (13:43):
I was driving over the weekend Lamborghini Urus, and I
was thinking about this because I had the good fortune
of having two test cars in my driveway. So I
had a BMW M eight Competition, which is and it's
the grand coupe version, so it's a four door coupe.
(14:03):
If you can make that work in your head somehow.
Speaker 1 (14:06):
World's words don't mean anything exactly.
Speaker 2 (14:09):
But it was starts at one and then fully loaded.
The way they had it in my driveway was one seventy,
so that's expensive already. But the Lamborghini, but the Lamborghini
starts at like two ninety I think to ninety eight
or something, and as as outfitted in my driveway was
(14:30):
at three forty five. So it's a it's a huge
price increase, you know, and especially because I was driving
them both and they're very different, you know. Obviously one
is an suv and one is supposed to be a coupe,
and I'm sure they appeal to a very different buyer.
(14:52):
The Lamborghini is very light and agile. The BMW is
like heavy, and but I like it that way.
Speaker 1 (14:59):
Did you like the Earth because I remember you saying
that you you don't really like that?
Speaker 2 (15:04):
So I loved on its own, I loved it. And
this was another thing I was thinking about, like on
it on their own. Any of these cars that they
give us to drive, for the most part, they're all
like six figure luxury vehicles. On their own, by themselves,
they're all going to be amazing. So on its own,
the Lamborghini was amazing.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
It's I disagree, but you do, all right.
Speaker 2 (15:28):
Well, I'm just I'm newer to this than you are, right,
So you're you're jaded. I think you're.
Speaker 1 (15:34):
Jaded stating that for the record, they are not all
created equal.
Speaker 2 (15:37):
But no, I agree that they're not, but I think
the difference is so marginal. So in terms of in
terms of what you need, they all have it. They
all can get you from point A to point B.
In terms of what you want, I think there's a
very marginal difference. So the Lamborghini, it's obviously super fast.
(15:58):
It has the turbo charge V eight from the Cayenne,
and it's got hybrid so it's got the electric assist
that makes it quick. Its feels very light even in
like when you open and close the door, that feels light,
which is not a good thing because it doesn't have
a solid clunk. You can tell that the door is
(16:19):
like made of carbon fiber, which if you're in a
performance vehicle you want that. I guess. The steering is
very light and agile, and it's the it's gorgeous. The
design I love. It looks like some futuristic like Moon Buggy.
Speaker 1 (16:34):
I love looks.
Speaker 2 (16:36):
And the interior also is beautiful. It's basically an Audi interior,
you know, which is good.
Speaker 1 (16:41):
Oh, it's a Lamborghini interior.
Speaker 2 (16:42):
Well they have the center stack from the Audi. Yeah,
you know, and but it's amazing. Uh, And you can
tell it's expensive three point fifty. I don't know about that.
So I do like it a lot, but it's but
the but the thing is, it's not special enough to
me to be a Lamborghini. It doesn't have its own motor.
Speaker 1 (17:03):
But here here's my question, and this is I remember
when I drove this. I went to Rome and drove it,
I think in twenty eighteen when it first came out
in its competitive set, not comparing it to a Hurricon
or to a Gayardo, or to a Robolto, but within
its competitive set of luxury SUVs, this would be my
(17:25):
first choice.
Speaker 3 (17:26):
But you know what I'm saying, Okay, But Hannah, money
were no object, okay, Because I was going to say,
if I give you a million dollars cash and say
go have a nice summer in Europe and buy yourself
a car.
Speaker 2 (17:39):
Would you spend three point fifty on the Lamborghini Urus
when you could have the very top of the line
Cayenne Turbogt for six fifty or for a two hundred,
both of them have six hundred and fifty horse power.
Would you? Would you take it? Take it over the
you would you'd spend the extra one hundred and fifty thousand.
(18:00):
You're buying almost double the cost.
Speaker 1 (18:02):
You gave me a million dollars to spend, and I
need an suv. That's the like to me this, the
Earths is tuned even more aggressively. It's rowdier, it's louder,
it's more raw, it's got more of an attitude. Plus
I do not like the how how the Cayenne looks.
The Cayenne is just so rounded to me, I like
(18:25):
how the earth is edgy and mean.
Speaker 2 (18:29):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (18:30):
And if you told me you need to buy an suv,
go out and buy an suv, I would buy that
car for sure.
Speaker 2 (18:37):
Okay, I mean I so, I respect, I respect your opinion,
but I would happily take the Cayenne. You can get
the Turboe Hybrid coup It's got seven hundred and thirty horsepower,
it's the same mechanics as the Lamborghini, and it costs
one hundred and sixty.
Speaker 1 (18:56):
Not it's a Porsche, and there are so those are everywhere.
Don't you want to look different? Matt?
Speaker 2 (19:03):
Yeah, don't you want to say? But I would rather
have an extra basically one hundred and ninety grand in
my pocket to rent a nice palazzo. You know in
Tuscany or something, and by the way, there are if
you were just if just you're just telling me, SUV,
I would probably take a like a G five hundred
or a G sixty three if I wanted to get
a little crazy, and even then I'm paying less than
(19:25):
two hundred grand.
Speaker 1 (19:26):
The G would be my second choice.
Speaker 2 (19:28):
I will say I did love driving the Lamborghini, and
I especially there was one thing that kind of cuts
both ways. It's kind of bouncy, and the sway bars
aren't connected as much as I thought they would be.
So it's good in New York urban roads that have
a ton of potholes and there's construction everywhere, because it
(19:48):
really sucks up the off road bumps amazingly.
Speaker 1 (19:51):
Well, yes, I remember that in on the Streets of Rome.
I thought it was I thought it even when you're
in traffic and town, which can be real annoying in
some of these cars. I did. I agree, But you're
saying I didn't like that when you get Yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:06):
It's not as flat as like the Aston Martin or
the BMW XM, these cars that have active, you know,
electronic sway bars that really hold it flat, so it
doesn't it's like on the sporty side, it's not quite
as much. If I wanted to be able to handle,
you know, an urban jungle or even maybe take it
(20:27):
off road, would you do that? I guess you could.
In an organ I wouldn't either, But.
Speaker 1 (20:34):
Actually I think I did when I was when I
did the test drive. But I wouldn't in my own
personal way.
Speaker 2 (20:40):
I mean, why I don't heard it?
Speaker 1 (20:42):
Why would you do that?
Speaker 2 (20:44):
I will also say that if they were the same price,
if you said, like, you can have and it's odd
comparison because who is cross shopping an M E coop
and A or as nobody. But if you said you
can have either one of these cars, and but the
resale value is the same, so you take out the
money factor, sure I would take the M eight.
Speaker 1 (21:07):
And does that mean you're just a car person? Does
that mean you're a BMW person?
Speaker 2 (21:11):
I don't know. I was wondering what it says about me,
because I don't want to be necessarily a BMW person.
The BMW people who were like honking at me or
giving me the thumbs up on the road, they were
like hooligans, you know that had like cut off their
mufflers and you know, they were the epitomy of what
(21:33):
you expect a BMW person to be. And then also like,
I don't love the way the M E looks like
it looks pretty good, but I don't think it looks great.
I don't like BMW's design for the most part.
Speaker 1 (21:46):
How do you feel about the girl these days? Have
we discussed that?
Speaker 2 (21:49):
I don't even care about it anymore like I did
five years ago. But yeah, I like I like some
of them. I like the M two, you know, I
mean they don't. I don't hate the way they look,
but I just don't care about the way they look.
What I do like is that feeling of heft, like
when you're turning a BMW it's got a heavy steering wheel,
(22:10):
and critics hate it. Like I read the Car and
Driver reviews and they they say, of the sporty sedans
that you could buy, they ranked this number nine below
like two different Panameras and like a two different Amgs,
And of course for number one, they picked the Cadillac
CT five V Black Wing.
Speaker 1 (22:33):
Well, I don't know if I mean, I will say
there to me, I don't read their reviews. I read
my own reviews.
Speaker 2 (22:41):
You don't driver, No, I google it.
Speaker 1 (22:45):
I did drive them five last weekend in Miami, and
the steering was incredibly light and nimble.
Speaker 2 (22:53):
Weird. I'm gonna try it, But I was thinking of
you when I was driving this, because you know, everybody
bad mouths BMW no matter what it is, M two,
M five, M A for there you know people. Yeah,
but BMW kids who are like man, my E ninety
two weighed so much less than you know. Oh and
(23:15):
and I don't modern. I don't think that's a bad
thing because you get in this. And my neighbor Eric,
you know, who always goes on test drives with me,
made the point that it's like a cruise missile this MA,
like you could sit down and do a thousand miles,
like Alex Roy would be comfortable going across country. And
in fact, I think he did use once an M
(23:36):
five standard. Yes, Like I just the car could take
anything in terms of a road trip, and that's what
I want in that kind of car.
Speaker 1 (23:46):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:47):
Yeah, I'm surprised that the M five steering was light.
Speaker 1 (23:51):
I I mean, get in, get in, get in one
and fye I. As I said in the review, every
body asked the first question was how much does it weigh,
and the weight in that car is kind of not
the point they've They've done so much to make it
(24:12):
handle well. I mean, we're not saying anything that BMW
hasn't heard or doesn't already know, so obviously they're engineering
cars to counterbalance their weight their hef. I thought it
was a great car, and I actually even liked the
looks were cool to me.
Speaker 2 (24:37):
We're getting to a point where I think most new
cars I just don't really like the way they look.
And but I guess I don't care because I I
love also the Cadillac CT five V black Wing, and
it is ugly. Like I The only reason I wouldn't
buy it is because I wouldn't want it in my garage.
I would try and make a way so if I
(24:57):
got one, and I really do want one, because it
has a supercharge six point two liters V eight and
three pedals, but I would make it so that I
open my garage door and then get in the car
before I see it, you know, because I don't want
to see the outside of it. Ever.
Speaker 1 (25:13):
Oh, you're putting a brown bag over its head exactly.
I mean, yeah, I get it. I know I could
never drive one of those or own one of those.
It's just not a modern it doesn't It looks like
it's from the eighties.
Speaker 2 (25:30):
Yes, it does. I always think of the Cimmarron, you know,
and that's not that's not a good thing.
Speaker 1 (25:38):
But I mean a lot of good things did come
from the eighties, but not that. But that.
Speaker 2 (25:43):
Where else can you find a supercharged V eight with
a stick in a new car? Like you can't and
it's so comfortable inside, by the way, the uh, I'll
be interested to drive the M five because I don't
know why you would want it over an M eight.
I don't know all the stats. So maybe you know
it's got boosted horsepower or somehow handles better.
Speaker 1 (26:07):
But then the car, right, uh yeah, the M five
had seven hundred and seventeen horse power, Like how much
more do you need? You know? No, you don't, Like
you're not gonna even if you have it, you're not
going to be able to use it. Plus it's a
it is a hybrid, which I know you love. I
mean to me, it was a great executive style.
Speaker 2 (26:30):
I guess that's not much difference. Yeah, So the MA
competition has six hundred and seventeen horsepower one hundred less,
but it's not a hybrid.
Speaker 1 (26:39):
Well, the M five is actually probably a more like
a more modern advanced car at this point.
Speaker 2 (26:46):
Right, and you can fit more easily to people in
the back, although in them a grand coupe, I could
fit my daughter's child seats. So that yeah, it's like
it's it's got enough room. And it's also like so
low that you it's fun to like try and make
(27:07):
it slip around corners. And I have this one on
summer tires, so I can.
Speaker 1 (27:11):
Oh. I mean, I BMW is doing pretty well. I
know that, you know, as you know, every autumnmaker suffered
last year with evs. They just aren't They weren't selling
as much as everyone thought they were. But BMW outpaced
OUTI Portie and Mercedes, and some of their EV's actually
(27:35):
saw an uptick in sales. For instance, I know that
I four BMW actually saw a double figure uptick. So
I think we should be watching BMW. Actually, yes, I
think it's doing something right, which is really good to see.
Speaker 2 (27:51):
I'm just going to look quickly at the market cap.
I know this isn't really a Stuart show, but I
noticed today that Folkswagen's market cap was lower than Mercedes,
which they're having sincere problems. And I know you have
a story about Porscho, which is obviously traded separately now,
but it's still so BMW fifty four billion euros. Mercedes
(28:17):
is trading for fifty eight and a half billion euros,
but Folkswagen, I think, is right in between that at
fifty five. By the way, the reason I was looking
at all these market caps is because Tesla yesterday recording
US on Tuesday. So on Monday, Tesla was down fifteen percent.
Year to date, Tesla's down forty five percent from its peak.
(28:40):
Tesla has lost eight hundred and twenty six billion dollars.
So Tesla has lost since December more market cap than Toyota, Honda, Nissan, Renault, Mercedes, Folkswagen,
bmd W, Stilantis, Ford, General motors, Portia, Ferrari, and Aston
(29:07):
Martin all put together. So basically every automaker you can
name other than like the Chinese ev makers. Add those
all up and they still don't have as much market
cap as Tesla lost since its peak in December.
Speaker 1 (29:22):
No, what's the reason for that, Matt Well.
Speaker 2 (29:25):
I mean, the most recent drop is just because a
couple of analysts have downgraded their expectations for deliveries. I
think it was UBS that downgraded its expectation for first
quarter deliveries at three hundred and sixty seven thousand, and
for full year deliveries to five percent lower than last year.
So they don't think Tesla's deliveries are going to climb anymore.
That's not consensus. The street still thinks their deliveries will
(29:47):
rise ten percent. But a lot of people have been
turned off by Elon Musk's brazen approach to you know,
federal government cost cutting, and they're just not buying the vehicles.
I mean, registrations in Germany fell seventy percent in the
(30:09):
first two months after he got involved in German politics.
So it's not His customer base doesn't love his chainsaw persona,
his sort of mean spirited trolling, but Donald Trump does
love it, so he tweeted that he's going to buy
a Tesla.
Speaker 1 (30:27):
I do wonder if there is and maybe you know
this and you can tell me, you know, is there
concern that just in general, whether whatever you think of Elon,
that he is rather distracted doing all of this other
stuff instead of running a car company. I mean, on
a very fundamental level, one human only has the same
(30:51):
amount of hours and every day as all of the
rest of us, even if he is a genius. You know,
Tesla's a big company. Is there concern that he's simply
distracted among other things?
Speaker 2 (31:02):
Yeah, no, absolutely. I mean we talked to an analyst
who has a buy on the stock, but has said, look,
they have a deep bench and Elon has a lot
of other stuff to do. Maybe he finds somebody else,
you know, to take the reins while he's firing as
many government workers as he can. And there are other
reasons as well. I mean, they have had problems in China,
(31:25):
where everybody has problems competing with BYD and China is
part of the future for you know, the profit picture
at Tesla. So there's a there's a I think a
number of reasons, but it's just amazing. I also think
they they rose too far too fast after the election.
Everyone's like, oh, Elon Musk is co president, let me
go buy the shares and pumped him up to a
(31:45):
record price. So there's a lot of reasons, but it's fascinating.
Speaker 1 (31:50):
It's fascinating, and I also have to say, you know,
I've always said in the years when Tesla was sort
of the only game in town, just because the large
OEMs aren't making electric vehicles now doesn't mean they can't.
It means they're they're waiting for whatever reason. And now
we do have so many more hybrid and electric options
(32:12):
from long term automakers, not you know, technology startups, startups
and quotes. You know, there are lots of options now,
and I think maybe consumers are realizing that. I can't
tell you how many people have asked me what, hey like,
what EV's are out there? Like? They know, they kind
(32:32):
of know there are a lot out there. They may
not know which brands are making which evs, but at
this point people seem to understand there are more options
than simply Tesla.
Speaker 2 (32:41):
True. Now, I did ask the analyst I spoke to
you about full self driving, and I said, look, Alex
Roy drove this Tesla across the country and used the
self driving capabilities ninety eight and a half percent of
the time. So to me, that's pretty full self driving. Yeah,
And the and I said, couldn't he have done it
(33:02):
in a Mercedes? And the guy said no, Actually, that's
that's the point. He said, nobody else has the technology
that Tesla has in that respect, so they're banking on that.
And Tesla has always had kind of a leg up
in terms of its battery tech, in terms of the
self driving capabilities. I mean, I was talking with a
(33:25):
viewer today who has had like every Porsche. He said,
right now he has a racing yellow twenty fourteen nine
to eleven C four s yellow. You say yellow. Yet
another listener with a yellow Porsche. But he he said,
he he did have a Tychon and let's see, I
(33:46):
must say the range limitation has been a huge disappointment,
he told me. Or he does have a Taykon, but
now he's going to a V eight Cayenne instead, which
good choice.
Speaker 1 (33:57):
I know we can support that, you know. Yeah, this
kind of goes into the story that we published about
Porsche's EV program and how they really have taken a
hit in the last year. And you know what you're saying,
this guy told you, I've heard from dozens of people
(34:20):
that unfortunately, you know, there have been some real problems
with reliability, recalls, range issues, et cetera, et cetera.
Speaker 2 (34:32):
That's horrible, by the way, because Porsche should have no
reliability issues. Right, the whole point of porschas that it
doesn't break.
Speaker 1 (34:41):
Yeah, I think that is why it's such a surprise,
because Porsche for since, certainly since it's IPO in twenty
twenty two, has been really at the top. You know,
it's been so dominant, it's had it's had just this
white hot high attached to it in terms of how
(35:03):
much people are willing to spend on their cars proportionate
to you know, what the MSRP is. They'll spend two
and three times more. They'll wait for years to get
certain nine to eleven's, you know, group sales and profits
have been you know, record setting year over year over year,
and twenty twenty four was really the first year that
(35:25):
they didn't have this gangbuster's full steam ahead result. And
it has to do with the EV program at Porsche, which,
especially for Porsie, I think is it's a question about
what Porsha means for a lot of people because of
(35:46):
how deeply they feel about the brand. It's a question
of what does Porscha mean as a brand? And if
it does have electric vehicles, does that change how I
feel about it? Yes or no? And it's been really
interesting to talk to people. For some people, for a
lot of people, they seem to believe that, you know,
(36:10):
I talked with multiple owners of Tykens who have struggled
with recalls, and they still say they love Porsche. This
is you know, this might have been their first EV
they ever owned, but it's not their first Porsche they
ever owned, and they will own more Porsches, so they're
able to separate this idea that of EV's from what
Porscha means to them, which is like a very engaging, thrilling,
(36:33):
driving bread.
Speaker 2 (36:34):
That's good for Porsche. But yeah, it is good, and
I know what you're saying. They're sort of dominant in
terms of margins, but in terms of their stock performance.
Of the German car makers, Porsche is the only one
with a negative total return. It went public in September
of twenty twenty two and it's down thirty percent. Folkswagon
(36:55):
in that time is up fourteen percent, BMW is up
forty percent, and Mercedes is up thirty five percent. So
since Porsche's IPO, anyone who invested in them is a loser.
And by the way, Ferrari in that time is up
one hundred and thirty seven percent.
Speaker 1 (37:14):
You know what's wild Speaking of Ferrari, You know, Ferrari
is really the north star that a lot of these
automakers would love to have, the profits and value of Ferrari.
The average price of a Ferrari is four times more
than the average price of Portie, four times. Like, we
talk about prices all the time, and it's on. It's
(37:36):
just Ferrari is kind of still in its own stratosphere,
which I think is really interesting. But that's a little
off off to your point.
Speaker 2 (37:46):
It's right, you're right though, far of all the publicly
traded car makers, I think Ferrari must have the highest
average sales price, right because Aston Martin doesn't reach that,
and roll Choice is going to be averaged in with
the BMW S. Spentley is going to be averaged in
with Folkswagen.
Speaker 1 (38:05):
So yeah, well, and those are such such so much
smaller you know, production volumes. I think last year Porsche
sold like three hundred and ten thousand or so vehicles worldwide.
I mean that's quite a few. Yeah, but you know
they speaking of China and BYD and Tesla Porscha was
down twenty eight percent in China last year, which is massive,
(38:28):
and even sales of nine to eleven are going down
in China, which you know, I remember for years China
was this like great hope for automakers. Whenever I would
ask where their growth could be, where their most promising markets,
they all said China, China, China, China number one. You know,
it's full full speed ahead. Like I said before, Well,
(38:52):
they've had their end. Yeah, yeah, it's not it's not
bearing out. And so I think, you know, just having
their annual press conference tomorrow, which is which will be Wednesday,
and I think we might see I think we might
actually hear some news about it. I think they're I
think already you know, they've said they're going to take
(39:13):
an eight hundred and thirty seven million dollar hit to
produce more combustion and hybrid engines this year, and I
think we can expect to see more of a pivot
to at least slow down the EV program.
Speaker 2 (39:29):
I wonder for now, I mean, how much longer does
Oliver Blooma get to run Porsche and Volkswagen. Like he's
running this behemoth, you know, the car of the people maker,
and he's also running Porsche with like different management boards
that both. I just feel like, maybe I know.
Speaker 1 (39:52):
You know, I asked Porscha about that and this this
didn't get really included in the story, but you know,
a fish statement back was Oliver saying, you know that
being able to oversee both brands actually helped him with
organization and sort of a uniform front on everything. Now,
(40:13):
that's what they said, but I also know, you know,
two weeks ago Portia let go of two of its
most powerful executives because of again, these increasingly public struggles
that they've had with the EV program.
Speaker 2 (40:36):
Yeah, I would probably say the same thing as Bluema,
because I would want both. Yeah, but I don't know
as a shareholder if I would be terribly thrilled about it.
I want to just look, I just want to give
a shout out to the people who've been shooting us emails.
Speaker 1 (40:51):
Yes, and some good ones lately.
Speaker 2 (40:55):
We have really and it's it's kind of awkward and
a little embarrassing that we were saying. I was saying,
I can't understand why anyone ever buy a yellow car,
and you were like, yeah, white pearlescent for me, I
just can't. And then we got a message from a
guy who his wife has a yellow nine to eleven
Turbo and he has a white Parlescent a land Cruiser,
(41:19):
a new land Cruiser, which is pretty sweet. Wind chill
a pearl is what they call it.
Speaker 1 (41:25):
Well, you know what, variety is a spice of life, right,
just because we don't want it doesn't mean you can't
have it.
Speaker 2 (41:32):
Yes, yes, and judgments exactly. I mean maybe yellow is
actually faster.
Speaker 1 (41:41):
Maybe I should test that out.
Speaker 2 (41:44):
I don't know. So, yeah, we've gotten some pretty cool emails,
and one from a guy who's helping me out in
my search for a hog. By the way, Harley Davidson
chairs have fallen less than Porsche shares since the p
that's a tough stock to own, right, that's down twenty
five percent. It's September of twenty twenty two. That's a
(42:05):
real problem. And oh so he and this guy pointed
out to me some market intel that I think is
pretty fascinating. We were making a joke about the age
of Harley buyers, right because one dealer was offering a
free proctology exam if you come in and go for
a test. Dride so and people say all the time,
(42:26):
like the demographics are a problem because it's just guys
my age who want to get on a Harley. Right,
younger kids are on sport bikes and love Doo Cotties,
and then I can't bend that much anymore, and I
just want.
Speaker 1 (42:39):
To create it.
Speaker 2 (42:40):
That's part of it being That's part of it. Like
even even my monsters are tough for me to fit
myself on. I'm a I have a particularly strange body shape,
but so so the Harleys are what older people would
go to. Right, The younger bikes that Harley makes, like
the Street Bob and the Lowrider that are popular the kids.
(43:01):
Those are hard for me to fit on because they
have mids. But this guy said, you know what, I
saw an article on Wall Street Journal in two thousand
and two that was saying the same thing. And the
fact is we have more people aging into that demographic
than are aging out of that demographic for the next
twenty years.
Speaker 1 (43:21):
So this is good news.
Speaker 2 (43:23):
Yeah, I think that's a fascinating point. Like, I guess
there are other reasons why you want younger people buying
your product, But if it's just out of sheer volume,
there are gonna be a lot more fifty year olds
in the next few years than there are now, or
at least not not fewer yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (43:44):
Yeah, great news. So maybe it's not all hum and gloom.
Speaker 2 (43:48):
Yeah. He liked your take that some companies aren't meant
to live forever. But I feel like this one is
that's true, you know.
Speaker 1 (43:55):
And it does. It's not a bad thing. It just
and you know what I need to go. Maybe I
am making some value judgments on the white purlesson. I
think maybe I do make a value judgment on that.
Just for the record.
Speaker 2 (44:08):
Yeah, well you should go out there and test dride
a white parlescent Harley Davidson road Glide st like they
have hot, hot looking white paints and you like white cars.
Speaker 1 (44:23):
Are you serious? You can buy a white Harley Davidson.
Speaker 2 (44:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (44:26):
Matt laid Law from the dealer.
Speaker 2 (44:29):
Laidlaw has a Harley and he's like a YouTube star.
Speaker 1 (44:33):
Really, oh wow, I didn't even know they made those.
Speaker 2 (44:37):
They look good and white. I don't normally I wouldn't
buy a white bike typically, and I don't want a
white fat Bob. But if I was going to get
a road glide or a street glide, I would consider white.
And it's also a very safe color.
Speaker 1 (44:50):
Well, yeah, everyone's looking at you and judging you. I'm
imagining Elvis. For some reason, this seems like a very
like Elvis in the later years, where he's not looking good.
Speaker 2 (45:00):
Because he had the suit. You like, the white suit.
Speaker 1 (45:03):
Yeah, a little bit bloated.
Speaker 2 (45:05):
Be jeweled Elvis. I wonder, let's see Elvis is Harley.
I'm sure that he had many, but I see I
see some. I see some white bikes. There.
Speaker 1 (45:18):
There you go. That's been in the recesses of my
brain for.
Speaker 2 (45:21):
The most part, light blue with black trim. We should
interject to add our email address it is hot Pursuit
at Bloomberg dot net. And we do read all of
the emails we get. We use a lot of the
suggestions on air, and we always reply as well, all right,
(45:46):
what else have you got going on? So you drove
the cadac IQ, you're going to talk to us about
it next week. And I really want to also get
Mark Royce on to.
Speaker 1 (45:52):
Talk about Yeah, we we that'll happen. We're we're talking
with his people to get him on. Unfortunately we couldn'te
him on to but well.
Speaker 2 (46:00):
No, that's good because you wouldn't have been able to
talk about your driving impressions anyway.
Speaker 1 (46:03):
Exactly, it's even better. So now I'm going to go
to Italy for the world premiere of the Mercedes CLA sedan,
which is their sort of entry level electric sedan that
they are promising will be a very long range EV
and I will not be driving it, but I will
(46:26):
be riding around in it with Ola Colinius, who's the
head of Mercedes Benz, and learning all about how they
are going to right their ship as it were in
the world of evs, because Mercedes has also taken quite
a hit with their EV program. It's it's just not
doing as well as I thought they that it would.
Speaker 2 (46:46):
So you're going to another country on another continent to
ride in a car.
Speaker 1 (46:53):
Yes i am, but with the literal boss of Mercedes
true an exclusive interview. So yes, that for us that
is worth.
Speaker 2 (47:05):
It more than just the boss of Mercedes. He used
to run AMG so he has like some pretty chops.
Speaker 1 (47:12):
He's got legit chops and I remember, you know, I
did the same thing when the electric g Wagon came out,
and he is a really interesting person. And so yeah,
I mean anytime we get access to truly the most
powerful person in the room as an exclusive for a
world debut, yeah, it's it's definitely worth it. We want
(47:33):
to hear from the horse's.
Speaker 2 (47:34):
Mouth that is very cool. I'm a little bit jealous,
come on, just because I want to hang out with Ola. Frankly,
he's not to drive the CLA, the electric CLA. I
still like the gas motors. Remember I had this CLE
four fifty, which isn't even like an AMG model, and
(47:55):
I fell in love with it.
Speaker 1 (47:58):
Yeah, I believe it, Phil, What are you doing well?
Speaker 2 (48:02):
I don't really have any plans them. I'm shopping for
this Harley Davidson. You know, I'm looking all across the
country and I'm I'm having a fun experience with the dealers.
Some dealerships are like, all right, it's a twenty twenty
three model. We want to get it off the floor.
You know, here's five thousand off and take it please.
And others are like, you know, we can offer you
(48:25):
this or that plus a nine ninety five prep fee,
nine to seventy five delivery fee, three ninety nine tax
and title for ninety nine doc fee. By the way,
so many of them are like insist that you pay
them six hundred dollars for a theft device, you know.
(48:45):
And one guy was explaining it to me out of
I think Mississippi, and he was like, it's five ninety
nine and that way, if your bike gets stolen, we
give you a five thousand in credit towards the purchase
of your next Harley. And I was like, well, I'm
unlikely to be buying it from you in Mississippi, so
how about we skip that part. No, we insist it's
(49:05):
pre installed.
Speaker 1 (49:08):
That's annoying to deal with that. No, complete ripoff. They
must think you were born yesterday.
Speaker 2 (49:14):
It's like they're trying not to sell a motorcycle. Yeah,
like if you start insisting that not only I purchase
a bike from you, but also some insurance fraud that
you've got going on, like I don't want to take
part in that.
Speaker 1 (49:28):
No, no, No, you can buy from someone else. There
are many many people who I'm sure would be glad
to sell you a bike.
Speaker 2 (49:36):
Yeah, we'll think about it. If all these fees add
up to like twenty five percent more than the than
the bike price, maybe let's go used. But yeah, I
have nothing else going on. The Moto GP is back
on this week, and I don't know if you saw
the first weekend of the races, but Mark Marquez.
Speaker 1 (49:55):
You know I missed it and the race for Ducati, Wait,
who did Who is the rider Mark Marquez?
Speaker 2 (50:03):
I mean he is like the Golden child. And some
people were a little bit hurt when Ducatti chowse him
instead of Jorge Martin. But of course he wins everything.
It's like he's a cheat code. By the way, I
also noticed something cool. I was watching Moto America, Super
Hooligans and King of the Baggers now that I'm a
Bagger fan, and Keanu Reeves is racing his Arch kg
(50:30):
RT a krant. Yeah. The Arch Motorcycles has a team
in the Super Hooligans and Corey Alexander is riding it
from hudson Ville Motorcycles here. Yeah, I mean so cool.
Speaker 1 (50:43):
Wow, that's that's legit. I'm surprised that Keanu doesn't have
insurance clauses with his films that he can't ride.
Speaker 2 (50:52):
No, no, he's not racing them, he's but his motorcycles are
in the series.
Speaker 1 (50:57):
Okay, okay, okay. We should talk about Cadillac joining Formula
One in twenty twenty six. That's a big deal. Yeah
did you hear about this?
Speaker 2 (51:06):
Yes, for sure, And to the eleventh team. I mean
it's so cool that they're gonna happen.
Speaker 1 (51:12):
Completely and they're gonna have for sure, they're going to
have an American driver.
Speaker 2 (51:16):
I don't know who, Brad Pitt.
Speaker 1 (51:18):
But yeah, I think it's you know, people seem to
really not like Mario Andretti. Why depends on who you ask.
I was. I was standing around talking about it last
night with a bunch of people from Cadillac, the point being,
you know, if one lets Cadillac in but does not
want Andretti.
Speaker 2 (51:39):
In, I see, okay. I hadn't looked deeper into it
because Formula one is more boring than that a grass grow.
But maybe it won't be when Cadillac.
Speaker 1 (51:49):
I'm so surprised you think that. I am so surprised.
Speaker 2 (51:52):
You think that they just don't there's no passing, you know,
they just however you qualified, then you drive in that
line until the finish.
Speaker 1 (52:02):
Well, one of these days there might be a pass,
you know. That's what we're all waiting for.
Speaker 2 (52:06):
I feel like they need smaller cars or bigger tracks.
I don't know, like I mean, I know, I guess
it is glamorous.
Speaker 1 (52:15):
You know, and superhistoric, high tech.
Speaker 2 (52:18):
It expensive.
Speaker 1 (52:20):
You know, we've talked about this, but I mean, honestly,
when you do go to a race, the race is
sort of besides the point for most people, and that
is just okay, that is just fine.
Speaker 2 (52:32):
It's like watching cricket. I love to go to a
cricket test, you know, just sit around knocking back Pim's
cups all day.
Speaker 1 (52:40):
But how do you feel about baseball? Do you like
baseball games?
Speaker 2 (52:43):
I keep every few years, I'll try and get back
into it. And when I was a kid, I loved
it so much, but it's also just so.
Speaker 1 (52:51):
Boring when you were a kid.
Speaker 2 (52:54):
Well, my mom took me to a Yankees game when
I was five, and that kind of uh. And I
lived here in New York City, so I was a
Yankees fan. But when we moved back to Ohio, Johnny
Bench and Pete Rose were playing for the Cincinnati Reds,
and I loved that.
Speaker 1 (53:10):
Wow, that's like Golden Era, Yeah for sure.
Speaker 2 (53:14):
Yeah, So I loved it when I was a little kid.
And I think I don't know if it's more boring
now or if I'm just too old to care, but
or the people, yeah, just not as colorful.
Speaker 1 (53:28):
I don't know. I was gonna what made me think
of it as base I like going to baseball games
and staying for like four or five innings, and I
mostly just like going for the atmosphere. I don't know's
the game to me is rather boring, but I like.
I love all the superstition. I love how eccentric and
weird some of the players are. Yeah, you know, but
(53:48):
it is more about the atmosphere and the lifestyle of
it than the actual game.
Speaker 2 (53:52):
If you have tickets, I'll go, you know, Okay, but
I would not rather go to a hockey game, a
basketball game, or a football game even And that's ok.
Speaker 1 (54:03):
Have you been watching the Celtics documentary on HBO.
Speaker 2 (54:06):
No, I have not, but I'm a big fan of
Larry Bird, so I guess it's probably that area, right.
Speaker 1 (54:12):
Well, it starts with Bob Kozier and Bill Bill Russell
like in the Red Arbach back in the for in
the old old days. But I think I'm sure they
get to Bird.
Speaker 2 (54:22):
I'll watch it. I mean, when I was a kid,
I was a Lakers fan, and now I have to
support the Knicks since I live here and they're the
games I can go see. You know, but going to
a basketball game is super fun.
Speaker 1 (54:34):
I agree that that's a fun atmosphere. Yeah, completely completely agree.
Speaker 2 (54:39):
All Right, Well, I guess that's all we have for
this week. But when you come back, you'll tell us
about hanging out with Ola, tell us about driving the
Cadillac IQ. We'll talk hopefully with Mark Royce, president of
General Motors and supercar guy, whose kid I believe is
like a pro level baseball player. Really yeah, I mean
(55:01):
he might, he might play for the Tigers. I don't know.
I think he played for University of Michigan, like varsity
baseball at a.
Speaker 1 (55:09):
D one team.
Speaker 2 (55:10):
And I know he at least I know he at
least tried out for the pros. I'm gonna dig into it.
I'll probably definitely, but he's an amazing baseball player.
Speaker 1 (55:23):
I'm Matt Miller, and I'm a Hanna Elliott, and this
is Bloomberg.
Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. I'm Matt Miller and
I'm Hannah Elliott and this is Hot Pursuit.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
How are you.
Speaker 1 (00:22):
I'm so good. I'm in San Francisco, so fear new. Yeah,
it's actually really nice here. I'm staying at the Saint Regis,
a very nice hotel. Very This morning I went running
down Mission to the water and ran under the sort
of under the bridge and saw the cool old piers
(00:45):
and actually ran by one of Bloomberg's offices, which was
also very cool. Didn't go inside, but ran past it.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
Right past that office. They have one of my favorite
ice cream shops in the country.
Speaker 1 (00:59):
What's it called your remember it's.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
Called Humphrey and Slocum. Okay, So if you get a
chance before you leave, I recommend you go there.
Speaker 1 (01:08):
Let me just maybe that'll be my lunch. My lunch
an ice cream cone launch.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
Actually, since you went for a run, I feel like
you deserve it. Humphrey Slocum ice cream. They have a
flavor of ice cream called Secret Breakfast, which is which
is bourbon and corn flakes.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
Amazing. That is well within my wheelhouse. Ye actually my drink,
Oh love it? Okay, I do you know San Francisco
very well? I actually don't know it very well.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
No, So I mean I've been there a few times
and I absolutely loved it every time I went there. Yeah,
but that was all before the pandemic.
Speaker 1 (01:49):
Yes, I came once sort of right after the pandemic,
and it was cold and rainy and it was really
really sort of messy. But I'm here for this Escalade
IQ drive, which is under embargo until next week, so
I can't tell you how it drives. But I drove
that yesterday down to almost a half Moon Bay and
(02:11):
it's gorgeous. It's sunny, it's there's been no rain, and
like I said, they really cleaned up the streets, so
it's nice. Last night we went to Dolby's World headquarters. Matt,
you would be so into this, and I actually want
to have these guys come on the podcast. But I
did not realize that Dolby was started in San Francisco
(02:34):
and the Optic, which is Cadillacs sort of mid size sub,
is going to come with Dolby atmost Sound. And so
we got an evening of demonstrations in these incredible studios
at Dolby headquarters, and I kind of I met. I
(02:54):
was really rolling my eyes when we first went in, like,
you know, I'm here to talk about the car at
some sound system. But by the end of the night
time I know, we sat in a studio session with
the producer who mixed Kendrick's Super Bowl period and has
done a bunch of things with like Sizza. He remastered
(03:15):
Bob Marley's recording.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
Ah, there's a name I recognize.
Speaker 1 (03:20):
Yeah, an incredible person, and he kind of showed us
how it worked. And then I sat with the head
of business for Dolby in this optic and we listened
to Chaka Khan and Tiesto and The Weekend, And honestly,
by the end, I was like, wow, I had my
attitude completely flipped. It was actually very cool.
Speaker 2 (03:41):
That is cool. So I think a good sound system
is so important, at least for me, right because there
you do. I love to listen to music when I drive.
It's part of the experience a lot of the time.
I know some people say I only listened to the
motor you know, but.
Speaker 1 (03:56):
You know I talked about that. I actually I brought
that up with Tim who's the head of business, and
I said, you know, a lot of the people that
the guys that I hang out with, you know, there's
definitely a strong contingent who believed that you should only
listen to the motor in a car. And he had
never heard about that, but he had had He was shocked.
I mean, as someone for him, one of the joys
(04:19):
of driving is listening to music, and he had actually
literally never heard that there would be a type of
person who believed you should only listen to the motor
of a vehicle. And he did think that was a
little bit nuts. It was really it was really fascinating,
and you know, the to finish that point, he did say, look,
(04:39):
cars are actually a really big growth segment for sound
because for so long, sound and in cars has been
an afterthought, like you talk about all the time.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
That, yeah, it bothers me, especially on you know, high
end vehicles like the Escalade. I drove a couple cars
this last week that had amazing sound systems. Actually, but look,
if I'm going to spend six figures on a car,
I want it to have a really good sound system.
(05:10):
Because the manufacturer only has to spend I don't know,
two grand to put in a decent sound system, three
grand and if I need to do it after market,
it's going to cost me ten.
Speaker 1 (05:22):
I know, I know, and plus just the inconvenience of
having to deal with that and be without your car
for a while too. I mean time again, like for
people who are buying six figure vehicles, maybe it's not
even the money issue, it's the time issue. And it
really kind of put like kills the buzz when you
(05:42):
get a new car and you instantly want to send
it away to like get a decent sound.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
So wait, you can't talk about the Escalade IQ yet.
Speaker 1 (05:51):
I can't talk about driving it, but I can.
Speaker 2 (05:53):
Talk about it. Can you talk about the stereo?
Speaker 1 (05:56):
Yeah? Well, so here's the problem. And I need to
really pinpoint this with Cadillac. And I didn't have a
chance last night because I was too gaga over the speakers.
But the Escalade is not going to be offering Dolby
atmost until next year. The Optic have Dolby atmost standard,
(06:17):
this is the new optic coming out, but the Escalade
will not, even though they are currently selling the Escalate
IQ right now. And I'm I'm ashamed to say that
My first question was not why aren't you offering it now?
I was I was too distracted. But that is the question.
Why are they not offering that now in their premiere
(06:37):
premium you know, big big. I'll find out and get
back to you, because it would seem completely natural. You'd
want your best thing in the best car, in the
top of the line.
Speaker 2 (06:50):
Yeah, I mean so many vehicles like so, I configure
Chevy vehicles all the time. Lately, I've been building Sierra
HD pickup trucks, and a lot of times they only
offer the good stereo system, which is only marginally better
than the medium stereo system in the higher spec trims. So,
(07:12):
for instance, I noticed I was building a pickup truck
and I was picking the trim that cost twenty thousand
dollars more because I wanted the you know, five hundred
dollars better stereo system. I think they really can make
a lot of money up selling people with that trick,
and they should obviously do that with the Escalade.
Speaker 1 (07:33):
IQ come absolutely, I mean, gosh, it makes total sense.
I will say I did have a demonstration, like I
said in the in the optic, and it sounds like
it makes at most is a thing and maybe you
know this where basically it's a third dimension to listening
where stereo you sort of have right and left. Of course,
(07:55):
we started with mono sound and then we went to
stereo with you know, right and left input in your ears.
And now at Most basically takes that three D and
it gives the music the ability to be moving around you.
Maybe you knew that.
Speaker 2 (08:14):
To do that, right, It's.
Speaker 1 (08:15):
It's surround sound is still static. It's not actively moving
the sound around you in the same way that Atmost is.
At Most is a completely dynamic sound experience, so that
when you are listening to something, you know, they could
have the background singers sound like they're behind you and
(08:36):
then move that sound in front of you in a
way that surround sound can't replicate. So it's it's more like,
you know, if you're listening to sound and it's muted colors.
This is just this just makes everything seem more vibrant,
more alive, more dimensional. And that sounds a little woo woo,
(08:59):
but really you can hear the difference. Everything just sounds
more present, more real. It's you know, we listened to
some prints and you could hear him breathing in You
could hear like I was hearing rasps in his voice.
That I don't hear when I just listen on my headphones.
Speaker 2 (09:19):
Interesting, so they already do. I'm looking at the website.
By the way, I love the look of the Escalade IQ,
And I think I told you when I was riding
with these Harley guys in Austin. I saw one drive
by and for me it was like super exciting, but
no one else really got it.
Speaker 1 (09:38):
You told me that, and that was really cool.
Speaker 2 (09:40):
Yeah, So to me it's like a range Rover beater
if you I mean. I haven't driven it, so I
don't know, but I know I love the other big
GM EV trucks. So I'm looking at the configurator. The
base model, the Luxury one is one thirty. Then you
(10:01):
can step up to the Sport for one thirty five hundred.
I guess it's just like you get different looking wheels
and maybe blacked out pieces, right, But you have to
step up to the Luxury too for one fifty before
you get the AKG thirty six speaker upgraded stereo systems.
So you see what I mean. They do it with
(10:22):
this too. They add twenty grand, and of course there
are other differences, but to get the good stereo system
you have to jump up, and yes, I usually I'm
willing to do that. I'm the sucker that they're looking for,
you know.
Speaker 1 (10:38):
I mean, if you have them, if you can't afford it,
I totally agree. I would do it too. I do
think it's worth it. And I even think one hundred
and fifty grand for that vehicle isn't outrageous having driven it,
I so so much.
Speaker 2 (10:55):
Money if you think about, you know, our history outside
of this last few years, that's so much money to
pay for. I mean, you could get a GT three
for that much, you know, pre pandemic. It's just a
big price.
Speaker 1 (11:12):
To pre pandemic is six years ago now, basically, I know,
I know, I mean a GT three now is more
expensive than that.
Speaker 2 (11:19):
Do you think, By the way I was wondering, I
feel like there's a certain price point at which and
maybe this is it. When you get above it, a
higher price is like an additional an additional enticement. So
like so like you you're gonna pay more for a
(11:39):
bigger motor, You're gonna pay more for a sweet design.
You're gonna pay more for like a luxury interior. And
at a certain price point, you're gonna pay more for
a higher price because the buyer that can will is
that does that track to you?
Speaker 1 (11:54):
Yes, there's a name for this, and I'm forgetting the name.
But there was some analyst who who really studied luxury markets,
and it's exactly what you're describing.
Speaker 2 (12:05):
It becomes a feature, not.
Speaker 1 (12:06):
A bug, exactly once you pass a certain level. There
is a type of fire that will question something unless
it's priced very high. You know, if they have the
option of two, they will always default to the more
expensive one, even if it's no better and really no different,
(12:27):
simply because it's more expensive. You know that there is
a name for it. It's escaping me now, but I
think that's exactly right. You know, when we're talking about
all of these like modified reimagined cars and restomods that
are a million dollars or more now and obviously like
Singers one of them, when you think of the TWR,
(12:48):
which is starts at under three hundred thousand, it almost
makes you think, why isn't that car worth like why
doesn't that car cost more? Yes, you know, yes, because
you get so used to what you think is the
prevailing wisdom about how much one of those cars should cost,
it really kind of it plays with reality a little bit.
Speaker 2 (13:11):
I mean, so I think that's probably true. And we
were looking with Barry Ritholts at this Porsche, these backdated Porschas.
I can't remember the name of the brand. It was
like Abriu or something, and they were only like three
point fifty probably on top of the Donor. But it
automatically makes you wonder what they're not adding that singer
does add, which.
Speaker 1 (13:32):
Which I think is kind of nothing, like it's actually nothing.
There's there's really no probably difference. I don't I don't
remember the name of the brand, but you know, so.
Speaker 2 (13:43):
I was driving over the weekend Lamborghini Urus, and I
was thinking about this because I had the good fortune
of having two test cars in my driveway. So I
had a BMW M eight Competition, which is and it's
the grand coupe version, so it's a four door coupe.
(14:03):
If you can make that work in your head somehow.
Speaker 1 (14:06):
World's words don't mean anything exactly.
Speaker 2 (14:09):
But it was starts at one and then fully loaded.
The way they had it in my driveway was one seventy,
so that's expensive already. But the Lamborghini, but the Lamborghini
starts at like two ninety I think to ninety eight
or something, and as as outfitted in my driveway was
(14:30):
at three forty five. So it's a it's a huge
price increase, you know, and especially because I was driving
them both and they're very different, you know. Obviously one
is an suv and one is supposed to be a coupe,
and I'm sure they appeal to a very different buyer.
(14:52):
The Lamborghini is very light and agile. The BMW is
like heavy, and but I like it that way.
Speaker 1 (14:59):
Did you like the Earth because I remember you saying
that you you don't really like that?
Speaker 2 (15:04):
So I loved on its own, I loved it. And
this was another thing I was thinking about, like on
it on their own. Any of these cars that they
give us to drive, for the most part, they're all
like six figure luxury vehicles. On their own, by themselves,
they're all going to be amazing. So on its own,
the Lamborghini was amazing.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
It's I disagree, but you do, all right.
Speaker 2 (15:28):
Well, I'm just I'm newer to this than you are, right,
So you're you're jaded. I think you're.
Speaker 1 (15:34):
Jaded stating that for the record, they are not all
created equal.
Speaker 2 (15:37):
But no, I agree that they're not, but I think
the difference is so marginal. So in terms of in
terms of what you need, they all have it. They
all can get you from point A to point B.
In terms of what you want, I think there's a
very marginal difference. So the Lamborghini, it's obviously super fast.
(15:58):
It has the turbo charge V eight from the Cayenne,
and it's got hybrid so it's got the electric assist
that makes it quick. Its feels very light even in
like when you open and close the door, that feels light,
which is not a good thing because it doesn't have
a solid clunk. You can tell that the door is
(16:19):
like made of carbon fiber, which if you're in a
performance vehicle you want that. I guess. The steering is
very light and agile, and it's the it's gorgeous. The
design I love. It looks like some futuristic like Moon Buggy.
Speaker 1 (16:34):
I love looks.
Speaker 2 (16:36):
And the interior also is beautiful. It's basically an Audi interior,
you know, which is good.
Speaker 1 (16:41):
Oh, it's a Lamborghini interior.
Speaker 2 (16:42):
Well they have the center stack from the Audi. Yeah,
you know, and but it's amazing. Uh, And you can
tell it's expensive three point fifty. I don't know about that.
So I do like it a lot, but it's but
the but the thing is, it's not special enough to
me to be a Lamborghini. It doesn't have its own motor.
Speaker 1 (17:03):
But here here's my question, and this is I remember
when I drove this. I went to Rome and drove it,
I think in twenty eighteen when it first came out
in its competitive set, not comparing it to a Hurricon
or to a Gayardo, or to a Robolto, but within
its competitive set of luxury SUVs, this would be my
(17:25):
first choice.
Speaker 3 (17:26):
But you know what I'm saying, Okay, But Hannah, money
were no object, okay, Because I was going to say,
if I give you a million dollars cash and say
go have a nice summer in Europe and buy yourself
a car.
Speaker 2 (17:39):
Would you spend three point fifty on the Lamborghini Urus
when you could have the very top of the line
Cayenne Turbogt for six fifty or for a two hundred,
both of them have six hundred and fifty horse power.
Would you? Would you take it? Take it over the
you would you'd spend the extra one hundred and fifty thousand.
(18:00):
You're buying almost double the cost.
Speaker 1 (18:02):
You gave me a million dollars to spend, and I
need an suv. That's the like to me this, the
Earths is tuned even more aggressively. It's rowdier, it's louder,
it's more raw, it's got more of an attitude. Plus
I do not like the how how the Cayenne looks.
The Cayenne is just so rounded to me, I like
(18:25):
how the earth is edgy and mean.
Speaker 2 (18:29):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (18:30):
And if you told me you need to buy an suv,
go out and buy an suv, I would buy that
car for sure.
Speaker 2 (18:37):
Okay, I mean I so, I respect, I respect your opinion,
but I would happily take the Cayenne. You can get
the Turboe Hybrid coup It's got seven hundred and thirty horsepower,
it's the same mechanics as the Lamborghini, and it costs
one hundred and sixty.
Speaker 1 (18:56):
Not it's a Porsche, and there are so those are everywhere.
Don't you want to look different? Matt?
Speaker 2 (19:03):
Yeah, don't you want to say? But I would rather
have an extra basically one hundred and ninety grand in
my pocket to rent a nice palazzo. You know in
Tuscany or something, and by the way, there are if
you were just if just you're just telling me, SUV,
I would probably take a like a G five hundred
or a G sixty three if I wanted to get
a little crazy, and even then I'm paying less than
(19:25):
two hundred grand.
Speaker 1 (19:26):
The G would be my second choice.
Speaker 2 (19:28):
I will say I did love driving the Lamborghini, and
I especially there was one thing that kind of cuts
both ways. It's kind of bouncy, and the sway bars
aren't connected as much as I thought they would be.
So it's good in New York urban roads that have
a ton of potholes and there's construction everywhere, because it
(19:48):
really sucks up the off road bumps amazingly.
Speaker 1 (19:51):
Well, yes, I remember that in on the Streets of Rome.
I thought it was I thought it even when you're
in traffic and town, which can be real annoying in
some of these cars. I did. I agree, But you're
saying I didn't like that when you get Yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:06):
It's not as flat as like the Aston Martin or
the BMW XM, these cars that have active, you know,
electronic sway bars that really hold it flat, so it
doesn't it's like on the sporty side, it's not quite
as much. If I wanted to be able to handle,
you know, an urban jungle or even maybe take it
(20:27):
off road, would you do that? I guess you could.
In an organ I wouldn't either, But.
Speaker 1 (20:34):
Actually I think I did when I was when I
did the test drive. But I wouldn't in my own
personal way.
Speaker 2 (20:40):
I mean, why I don't heard it?
Speaker 1 (20:42):
Why would you do that?
Speaker 2 (20:44):
I will also say that if they were the same price,
if you said, like, you can have and it's odd
comparison because who is cross shopping an M E coop
and A or as nobody. But if you said you
can have either one of these cars, and but the
resale value is the same, so you take out the
money factor, sure I would take the M eight.
Speaker 1 (21:07):
And does that mean you're just a car person? Does
that mean you're a BMW person?
Speaker 2 (21:11):
I don't know. I was wondering what it says about me,
because I don't want to be necessarily a BMW person.
The BMW people who were like honking at me or
giving me the thumbs up on the road, they were
like hooligans, you know that had like cut off their
mufflers and you know, they were the epitomy of what
(21:33):
you expect a BMW person to be. And then also like,
I don't love the way the M E looks like
it looks pretty good, but I don't think it looks great.
I don't like BMW's design for the most part.
Speaker 1 (21:46):
How do you feel about the girl these days? Have
we discussed that?
Speaker 2 (21:49):
I don't even care about it anymore like I did
five years ago. But yeah, I like I like some
of them. I like the M two, you know, I
mean they don't. I don't hate the way they look,
but I just don't care about the way they look.
What I do like is that feeling of heft, like
when you're turning a BMW it's got a heavy steering wheel,
(22:10):
and critics hate it. Like I read the Car and
Driver reviews and they they say, of the sporty sedans
that you could buy, they ranked this number nine below
like two different Panameras and like a two different Amgs,
And of course for number one, they picked the Cadillac
CT five V Black Wing.
Speaker 1 (22:33):
Well, I don't know if I mean, I will say
there to me, I don't read their reviews. I read
my own reviews.
Speaker 2 (22:41):
You don't driver, No, I google it.
Speaker 1 (22:45):
I did drive them five last weekend in Miami, and
the steering was incredibly light and nimble.
Speaker 2 (22:53):
Weird. I'm gonna try it, But I was thinking of
you when I was driving this, because you know, everybody
bad mouths BMW no matter what it is, M two,
M five, M A for there you know people. Yeah,
but BMW kids who are like man, my E ninety
two weighed so much less than you know. Oh and
(23:15):
and I don't modern. I don't think that's a bad
thing because you get in this. And my neighbor Eric,
you know, who always goes on test drives with me,
made the point that it's like a cruise missile this MA,
like you could sit down and do a thousand miles,
like Alex Roy would be comfortable going across country. And
in fact, I think he did use once an M
(23:36):
five standard. Yes, Like I just the car could take
anything in terms of a road trip, and that's what
I want in that kind of car.
Speaker 1 (23:46):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:47):
Yeah, I'm surprised that the M five steering was light.
Speaker 1 (23:51):
I I mean, get in, get in, get in one
and fye I. As I said in the review, every
body asked the first question was how much does it weigh,
and the weight in that car is kind of not
the point they've They've done so much to make it
(24:12):
handle well. I mean, we're not saying anything that BMW
hasn't heard or doesn't already know, so obviously they're engineering
cars to counterbalance their weight their hef. I thought it
was a great car, and I actually even liked the
looks were cool to me.
Speaker 2 (24:37):
We're getting to a point where I think most new
cars I just don't really like the way they look.
And but I guess I don't care because I I
love also the Cadillac CT five V black Wing, and
it is ugly. Like I The only reason I wouldn't
buy it is because I wouldn't want it in my garage.
I would try and make a way so if I
(24:57):
got one, and I really do want one, because it
has a supercharge six point two liters V eight and
three pedals, but I would make it so that I
open my garage door and then get in the car
before I see it, you know, because I don't want
to see the outside of it. Ever.
Speaker 1 (25:13):
Oh, you're putting a brown bag over its head exactly.
I mean, yeah, I get it. I know I could
never drive one of those or own one of those.
It's just not a modern it doesn't It looks like
it's from the eighties.
Speaker 2 (25:30):
Yes, it does. I always think of the Cimmarron, you know,
and that's not that's not a good thing.
Speaker 1 (25:38):
But I mean a lot of good things did come
from the eighties, but not that. But that.
Speaker 2 (25:43):
Where else can you find a supercharged V eight with
a stick in a new car? Like you can't and
it's so comfortable inside, by the way, the uh, I'll
be interested to drive the M five because I don't
know why you would want it over an M eight.
I don't know all the stats. So maybe you know
it's got boosted horsepower or somehow handles better.
Speaker 1 (26:07):
But then the car, right, uh yeah, the M five
had seven hundred and seventeen horse power, Like how much
more do you need? You know? No, you don't, Like
you're not gonna even if you have it, you're not
going to be able to use it. Plus it's a
it is a hybrid, which I know you love. I
mean to me, it was a great executive style.
Speaker 2 (26:30):
I guess that's not much difference. Yeah, So the MA
competition has six hundred and seventeen horsepower one hundred less,
but it's not a hybrid.
Speaker 1 (26:39):
Well, the M five is actually probably a more like
a more modern advanced car at this point.
Speaker 2 (26:46):
Right, and you can fit more easily to people in
the back, although in them a grand coupe, I could
fit my daughter's child seats. So that yeah, it's like
it's it's got enough room. And it's also like so
low that you it's fun to like try and make
(27:07):
it slip around corners. And I have this one on
summer tires, so I can.
Speaker 1 (27:11):
Oh. I mean, I BMW is doing pretty well. I
know that, you know, as you know, every autumnmaker suffered
last year with evs. They just aren't They weren't selling
as much as everyone thought they were. But BMW outpaced
OUTI Portie and Mercedes, and some of their EV's actually
(27:35):
saw an uptick in sales. For instance, I know that
I four BMW actually saw a double figure uptick. So
I think we should be watching BMW. Actually, yes, I
think it's doing something right, which is really good to see.
Speaker 2 (27:51):
I'm just going to look quickly at the market cap.
I know this isn't really a Stuart show, but I
noticed today that Folkswagen's market cap was lower than Mercedes,
which they're having sincere problems. And I know you have
a story about Porscho, which is obviously traded separately now,
but it's still so BMW fifty four billion euros. Mercedes
(28:17):
is trading for fifty eight and a half billion euros,
but Folkswagen, I think, is right in between that at
fifty five. By the way, the reason I was looking
at all these market caps is because Tesla yesterday recording
US on Tuesday. So on Monday, Tesla was down fifteen percent.
Year to date, Tesla's down forty five percent from its peak.
(28:40):
Tesla has lost eight hundred and twenty six billion dollars.
So Tesla has lost since December more market cap than Toyota, Honda, Nissan, Renault, Mercedes, Folkswagen,
bmd W, Stilantis, Ford, General motors, Portia, Ferrari, and Aston
(29:07):
Martin all put together. So basically every automaker you can
name other than like the Chinese ev makers. Add those
all up and they still don't have as much market
cap as Tesla lost since its peak in December.
Speaker 1 (29:22):
No, what's the reason for that, Matt Well.
Speaker 2 (29:25):
I mean, the most recent drop is just because a
couple of analysts have downgraded their expectations for deliveries. I
think it was UBS that downgraded its expectation for first
quarter deliveries at three hundred and sixty seven thousand, and
for full year deliveries to five percent lower than last year.
So they don't think Tesla's deliveries are going to climb anymore.
That's not consensus. The street still thinks their deliveries will
(29:47):
rise ten percent. But a lot of people have been
turned off by Elon Musk's brazen approach to you know,
federal government cost cutting, and they're just not buying the vehicles.
I mean, registrations in Germany fell seventy percent in the
(30:09):
first two months after he got involved in German politics.
So it's not His customer base doesn't love his chainsaw persona,
his sort of mean spirited trolling, but Donald Trump does
love it, so he tweeted that he's going to buy
a Tesla.
Speaker 1 (30:27):
I do wonder if there is and maybe you know
this and you can tell me, you know, is there
concern that just in general, whether whatever you think of Elon,
that he is rather distracted doing all of this other
stuff instead of running a car company. I mean, on
a very fundamental level, one human only has the same
(30:51):
amount of hours and every day as all of the
rest of us, even if he is a genius. You know,
Tesla's a big company. Is there concern that he's simply
distracted among other things?
Speaker 2 (31:02):
Yeah, no, absolutely. I mean we talked to an analyst
who has a buy on the stock, but has said, look,
they have a deep bench and Elon has a lot
of other stuff to do. Maybe he finds somebody else,
you know, to take the reins while he's firing as
many government workers as he can. And there are other
reasons as well. I mean, they have had problems in China,
(31:25):
where everybody has problems competing with BYD and China is
part of the future for you know, the profit picture
at Tesla. So there's a there's a I think a
number of reasons, but it's just amazing. I also think
they they rose too far too fast after the election.
Everyone's like, oh, Elon Musk is co president, let me
go buy the shares and pumped him up to a
(31:45):
record price. So there's a lot of reasons, but it's fascinating.
Speaker 1 (31:50):
It's fascinating, and I also have to say, you know,
I've always said in the years when Tesla was sort
of the only game in town, just because the large
OEMs aren't making electric vehicles now doesn't mean they can't.
It means they're they're waiting for whatever reason. And now
we do have so many more hybrid and electric options
(32:12):
from long term automakers, not you know, technology startups, startups
and quotes. You know, there are lots of options now,
and I think maybe consumers are realizing that. I can't
tell you how many people have asked me what, hey like,
what EV's are out there? Like? They know, they kind
(32:32):
of know there are a lot out there. They may
not know which brands are making which evs, but at
this point people seem to understand there are more options
than simply Tesla.
Speaker 2 (32:41):
True. Now, I did ask the analyst I spoke to
you about full self driving, and I said, look, Alex
Roy drove this Tesla across the country and used the
self driving capabilities ninety eight and a half percent of
the time. So to me, that's pretty full self driving. Yeah,
And the and I said, couldn't he have done it
(33:02):
in a Mercedes? And the guy said no, Actually, that's
that's the point. He said, nobody else has the technology
that Tesla has in that respect, so they're banking on that.
And Tesla has always had kind of a leg up
in terms of its battery tech, in terms of the
self driving capabilities. I mean, I was talking with a
(33:25):
viewer today who has had like every Porsche. He said,
right now he has a racing yellow twenty fourteen nine
to eleven C four s yellow. You say yellow. Yet
another listener with a yellow Porsche. But he he said,
he he did have a Tychon and let's see, I
(33:46):
must say the range limitation has been a huge disappointment,
he told me. Or he does have a Taykon, but
now he's going to a V eight Cayenne instead, which
good choice.
Speaker 1 (33:57):
I know we can support that, you know. Yeah, this
kind of goes into the story that we published about
Porsche's EV program and how they really have taken a
hit in the last year. And you know what you're saying,
this guy told you, I've heard from dozens of people
(34:20):
that unfortunately, you know, there have been some real problems
with reliability, recalls, range issues, et cetera, et cetera.
Speaker 2 (34:32):
That's horrible, by the way, because Porsche should have no
reliability issues. Right, the whole point of porschas that it
doesn't break.
Speaker 1 (34:41):
Yeah, I think that is why it's such a surprise,
because Porsche for since, certainly since it's IPO in twenty
twenty two, has been really at the top. You know,
it's been so dominant, it's had it's had just this
white hot high attached to it in terms of how
(35:03):
much people are willing to spend on their cars proportionate
to you know, what the MSRP is. They'll spend two
and three times more. They'll wait for years to get
certain nine to eleven's, you know, group sales and profits
have been you know, record setting year over year over year,
and twenty twenty four was really the first year that
(35:25):
they didn't have this gangbuster's full steam ahead result. And
it has to do with the EV program at Porsche, which,
especially for Porsie, I think is it's a question about
what Porsha means for a lot of people because of
(35:46):
how deeply they feel about the brand. It's a question
of what does Porscha mean as a brand? And if
it does have electric vehicles, does that change how I
feel about it? Yes or no? And it's been really
interesting to talk to people. For some people, for a
lot of people, they seem to believe that, you know,
(36:10):
I talked with multiple owners of Tykens who have struggled
with recalls, and they still say they love Porsche. This
is you know, this might have been their first EV
they ever owned, but it's not their first Porsche they
ever owned, and they will own more Porsches, so they're
able to separate this idea that of EV's from what
Porscha means to them, which is like a very engaging, thrilling,
(36:33):
driving bread.
Speaker 2 (36:34):
That's good for Porsche. But yeah, it is good, and
I know what you're saying. They're sort of dominant in
terms of margins, but in terms of their stock performance.
Of the German car makers, Porsche is the only one
with a negative total return. It went public in September
of twenty twenty two and it's down thirty percent. Folkswagon
(36:55):
in that time is up fourteen percent, BMW is up
forty percent, and Mercedes is up thirty five percent. So
since Porsche's IPO, anyone who invested in them is a loser.
And by the way, Ferrari in that time is up
one hundred and thirty seven percent.
Speaker 1 (37:14):
You know what's wild Speaking of Ferrari, You know, Ferrari
is really the north star that a lot of these
automakers would love to have, the profits and value of Ferrari.
The average price of a Ferrari is four times more
than the average price of Portie, four times. Like, we
talk about prices all the time, and it's on. It's
(37:36):
just Ferrari is kind of still in its own stratosphere,
which I think is really interesting. But that's a little
off off to your point.
Speaker 2 (37:46):
It's right, you're right though, far of all the publicly
traded car makers, I think Ferrari must have the highest
average sales price, right because Aston Martin doesn't reach that,
and roll Choice is going to be averaged in with
the BMW S. Spentley is going to be averaged in
with Folkswagen.
Speaker 1 (38:05):
So yeah, well, and those are such such so much
smaller you know, production volumes. I think last year Porsche
sold like three hundred and ten thousand or so vehicles worldwide.
I mean that's quite a few. Yeah, but you know
they speaking of China and BYD and Tesla Porscha was
down twenty eight percent in China last year, which is massive,
(38:28):
and even sales of nine to eleven are going down
in China, which you know, I remember for years China
was this like great hope for automakers. Whenever I would
ask where their growth could be, where their most promising markets,
they all said China, China, China, China number one. You know,
it's full full speed ahead. Like I said before, Well,
(38:52):
they've had their end. Yeah, yeah, it's not it's not
bearing out. And so I think, you know, just having
their annual press conference tomorrow, which is which will be Wednesday,
and I think we might see I think we might
actually hear some news about it. I think they're I
think already you know, they've said they're going to take
(39:13):
an eight hundred and thirty seven million dollar hit to
produce more combustion and hybrid engines this year, and I
think we can expect to see more of a pivot
to at least slow down the EV program.
Speaker 2 (39:29):
I wonder for now, I mean, how much longer does
Oliver Blooma get to run Porsche and Volkswagen. Like he's
running this behemoth, you know, the car of the people maker,
and he's also running Porsche with like different management boards
that both. I just feel like, maybe I know.
Speaker 1 (39:52):
You know, I asked Porscha about that and this this
didn't get really included in the story, but you know,
a fish statement back was Oliver saying, you know that
being able to oversee both brands actually helped him with
organization and sort of a uniform front on everything. Now,
(40:13):
that's what they said, but I also know, you know,
two weeks ago Portia let go of two of its
most powerful executives because of again, these increasingly public struggles
that they've had with the EV program.
Speaker 2 (40:36):
Yeah, I would probably say the same thing as Bluema,
because I would want both. Yeah, but I don't know
as a shareholder if I would be terribly thrilled about it.
I want to just look, I just want to give
a shout out to the people who've been shooting us emails.
Speaker 1 (40:51):
Yes, and some good ones lately.
Speaker 2 (40:55):
We have really and it's it's kind of awkward and
a little embarrassing that we were saying. I was saying,
I can't understand why anyone ever buy a yellow car,
and you were like, yeah, white pearlescent for me, I
just can't. And then we got a message from a
guy who his wife has a yellow nine to eleven
Turbo and he has a white Parlescent a land Cruiser,
(41:19):
a new land Cruiser, which is pretty sweet. Wind chill
a pearl is what they call it.
Speaker 1 (41:25):
Well, you know what, variety is a spice of life, right,
just because we don't want it doesn't mean you can't
have it.
Speaker 2 (41:32):
Yes, yes, and judgments exactly. I mean maybe yellow is
actually faster.
Speaker 1 (41:41):
Maybe I should test that out.
Speaker 2 (41:44):
I don't know. So, yeah, we've gotten some pretty cool emails,
and one from a guy who's helping me out in
my search for a hog. By the way, Harley Davidson
chairs have fallen less than Porsche shares since the p
that's a tough stock to own, right, that's down twenty
five percent. It's September of twenty twenty two. That's a
(42:05):
real problem. And oh so he and this guy pointed
out to me some market intel that I think is
pretty fascinating. We were making a joke about the age
of Harley buyers, right because one dealer was offering a
free proctology exam if you come in and go for
a test. Dride so and people say all the time,
(42:26):
like the demographics are a problem because it's just guys
my age who want to get on a Harley. Right,
younger kids are on sport bikes and love Doo Cotties,
and then I can't bend that much anymore, and I
just want.
Speaker 1 (42:39):
To create it.
Speaker 2 (42:40):
That's part of it being That's part of it. Like
even even my monsters are tough for me to fit
myself on. I'm a I have a particularly strange body shape,
but so so the Harleys are what older people would
go to. Right, The younger bikes that Harley makes, like
the Street Bob and the Lowrider that are popular the kids.
(43:01):
Those are hard for me to fit on because they
have mids. But this guy said, you know what, I
saw an article on Wall Street Journal in two thousand
and two that was saying the same thing. And the
fact is we have more people aging into that demographic
than are aging out of that demographic for the next
twenty years.
Speaker 1 (43:21):
So this is good news.
Speaker 2 (43:23):
Yeah, I think that's a fascinating point. Like, I guess
there are other reasons why you want younger people buying
your product, But if it's just out of sheer volume,
there are gonna be a lot more fifty year olds
in the next few years than there are now, or
at least not not fewer yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (43:44):
Yeah, great news. So maybe it's not all hum and gloom.
Speaker 2 (43:48):
Yeah. He liked your take that some companies aren't meant
to live forever. But I feel like this one is
that's true, you know.
Speaker 1 (43:55):
And it does. It's not a bad thing. It just
and you know what I need to go. Maybe I
am making some value judgments on the white purlesson. I
think maybe I do make a value judgment on that.
Just for the record.
Speaker 2 (44:08):
Yeah, well you should go out there and test dride
a white parlescent Harley Davidson road Glide st like they
have hot, hot looking white paints and you like white cars.
Speaker 1 (44:23):
Are you serious? You can buy a white Harley Davidson.
Speaker 2 (44:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (44:26):
Matt laid Law from the dealer.
Speaker 2 (44:29):
Laidlaw has a Harley and he's like a YouTube star.
Speaker 1 (44:33):
Really, oh wow, I didn't even know they made those.
Speaker 2 (44:37):
They look good and white. I don't normally I wouldn't
buy a white bike typically, and I don't want a
white fat Bob. But if I was going to get
a road glide or a street glide, I would consider white.
And it's also a very safe color.
Speaker 1 (44:50):
Well, yeah, everyone's looking at you and judging you. I'm
imagining Elvis. For some reason, this seems like a very
like Elvis in the later years, where he's not looking good.
Speaker 2 (45:00):
Because he had the suit. You like, the white suit.
Speaker 1 (45:03):
Yeah, a little bit bloated.
Speaker 2 (45:05):
Be jeweled Elvis. I wonder, let's see Elvis is Harley.
I'm sure that he had many, but I see I
see some. I see some white bikes. There.
Speaker 1 (45:18):
There you go. That's been in the recesses of my
brain for.
Speaker 2 (45:21):
The most part, light blue with black trim. We should
interject to add our email address it is hot Pursuit
at Bloomberg dot net. And we do read all of
the emails we get. We use a lot of the
suggestions on air, and we always reply as well, all right,
(45:46):
what else have you got going on? So you drove
the cadac IQ, you're going to talk to us about
it next week. And I really want to also get
Mark Royce on to.
Speaker 1 (45:52):
Talk about Yeah, we we that'll happen. We're we're talking
with his people to get him on. Unfortunately we couldn'te
him on to but well.
Speaker 2 (46:00):
No, that's good because you wouldn't have been able to
talk about your driving impressions anyway.
Speaker 1 (46:03):
Exactly, it's even better. So now I'm going to go
to Italy for the world premiere of the Mercedes CLA sedan,
which is their sort of entry level electric sedan that
they are promising will be a very long range EV
and I will not be driving it, but I will
(46:26):
be riding around in it with Ola Colinius, who's the
head of Mercedes Benz, and learning all about how they
are going to right their ship as it were in
the world of evs, because Mercedes has also taken quite
a hit with their EV program. It's it's just not
doing as well as I thought they that it would.
Speaker 2 (46:46):
So you're going to another country on another continent to
ride in a car.
Speaker 1 (46:53):
Yes i am, but with the literal boss of Mercedes
true an exclusive interview. So yes, that for us that
is worth.
Speaker 2 (47:05):
It more than just the boss of Mercedes. He used
to run AMG so he has like some pretty chops.
Speaker 1 (47:12):
He's got legit chops and I remember, you know, I
did the same thing when the electric g Wagon came out,
and he is a really interesting person. And so yeah,
I mean anytime we get access to truly the most
powerful person in the room as an exclusive for a
world debut, yeah, it's it's definitely worth it. We want
(47:33):
to hear from the horse's.
Speaker 2 (47:34):
Mouth that is very cool. I'm a little bit jealous,
come on, just because I want to hang out with Ola. Frankly,
he's not to drive the CLA, the electric CLA. I
still like the gas motors. Remember I had this CLE
four fifty, which isn't even like an AMG model, and
(47:55):
I fell in love with it.
Speaker 1 (47:58):
Yeah, I believe it, Phil, What are you doing well?
Speaker 2 (48:02):
I don't really have any plans them. I'm shopping for
this Harley Davidson. You know, I'm looking all across the
country and I'm I'm having a fun experience with the dealers.
Some dealerships are like, all right, it's a twenty twenty
three model. We want to get it off the floor.
You know, here's five thousand off and take it please.
And others are like, you know, we can offer you
(48:25):
this or that plus a nine ninety five prep fee,
nine to seventy five delivery fee, three ninety nine tax
and title for ninety nine doc fee. By the way,
so many of them are like insist that you pay
them six hundred dollars for a theft device, you know.
(48:45):
And one guy was explaining it to me out of
I think Mississippi, and he was like, it's five ninety
nine and that way, if your bike gets stolen, we
give you a five thousand in credit towards the purchase
of your next Harley. And I was like, well, I'm
unlikely to be buying it from you in Mississippi, so
how about we skip that part. No, we insist it's
(49:05):
pre installed.
Speaker 1 (49:08):
That's annoying to deal with that. No, complete ripoff. They
must think you were born yesterday.
Speaker 2 (49:14):
It's like they're trying not to sell a motorcycle. Yeah,
like if you start insisting that not only I purchase
a bike from you, but also some insurance fraud that
you've got going on, like I don't want to take
part in that.
Speaker 1 (49:28):
No, no, No, you can buy from someone else. There
are many many people who I'm sure would be glad
to sell you a bike.
Speaker 2 (49:36):
Yeah, we'll think about it. If all these fees add
up to like twenty five percent more than the than
the bike price, maybe let's go used. But yeah, I
have nothing else going on. The Moto GP is back
on this week, and I don't know if you saw
the first weekend of the races, but Mark Marquez.
Speaker 1 (49:55):
You know I missed it and the race for Ducati, Wait,
who did Who is the rider Mark Marquez?
Speaker 2 (50:03):
I mean he is like the Golden child. And some
people were a little bit hurt when Ducatti chowse him
instead of Jorge Martin. But of course he wins everything.
It's like he's a cheat code. By the way, I
also noticed something cool. I was watching Moto America, Super
Hooligans and King of the Baggers now that I'm a
Bagger fan, and Keanu Reeves is racing his Arch kg
(50:30):
RT a krant. Yeah. The Arch Motorcycles has a team
in the Super Hooligans and Corey Alexander is riding it
from hudson Ville Motorcycles here. Yeah, I mean so cool.
Speaker 1 (50:43):
Wow, that's that's legit. I'm surprised that Keanu doesn't have
insurance clauses with his films that he can't ride.
Speaker 2 (50:52):
No, no, he's not racing them, he's but his motorcycles are
in the series.
Speaker 1 (50:57):
Okay, okay, okay. We should talk about Cadillac joining Formula
One in twenty twenty six. That's a big deal. Yeah
did you hear about this?
Speaker 2 (51:06):
Yes, for sure, And to the eleventh team. I mean
it's so cool that they're gonna happen.
Speaker 1 (51:12):
Completely and they're gonna have for sure, they're going to
have an American driver.
Speaker 2 (51:16):
I don't know who, Brad Pitt.
Speaker 1 (51:18):
But yeah, I think it's you know, people seem to
really not like Mario Andretti. Why depends on who you ask.
I was. I was standing around talking about it last
night with a bunch of people from Cadillac, the point being,
you know, if one lets Cadillac in but does not
want Andretti.
Speaker 2 (51:39):
In, I see, okay. I hadn't looked deeper into it
because Formula one is more boring than that a grass grow.
But maybe it won't be when Cadillac.
Speaker 1 (51:49):
I'm so surprised you think that. I am so surprised.
Speaker 2 (51:52):
You think that they just don't there's no passing, you know,
they just however you qualified, then you drive in that
line until the finish.
Speaker 1 (52:02):
Well, one of these days there might be a pass,
you know. That's what we're all waiting for.
Speaker 2 (52:06):
I feel like they need smaller cars or bigger tracks.
I don't know, like I mean, I know, I guess
it is glamorous.
Speaker 1 (52:15):
You know, and superhistoric, high tech.
Speaker 2 (52:18):
It expensive.
Speaker 1 (52:20):
You know, we've talked about this, but I mean, honestly,
when you do go to a race, the race is
sort of besides the point for most people, and that
is just okay, that is just fine.
Speaker 2 (52:32):
It's like watching cricket. I love to go to a
cricket test, you know, just sit around knocking back Pim's
cups all day.
Speaker 1 (52:40):
But how do you feel about baseball? Do you like
baseball games?
Speaker 2 (52:43):
I keep every few years, I'll try and get back
into it. And when I was a kid, I loved
it so much, but it's also just so.
Speaker 1 (52:51):
Boring when you were a kid.
Speaker 2 (52:54):
Well, my mom took me to a Yankees game when
I was five, and that kind of uh. And I
lived here in New York City, so I was a
Yankees fan. But when we moved back to Ohio, Johnny
Bench and Pete Rose were playing for the Cincinnati Reds,
and I loved that.
Speaker 1 (53:10):
Wow, that's like Golden Era, Yeah for sure.
Speaker 2 (53:14):
Yeah, So I loved it when I was a little kid.
And I think I don't know if it's more boring
now or if I'm just too old to care, but
or the people, yeah, just not as colorful.
Speaker 1 (53:28):
I don't know. I was gonna what made me think
of it as base I like going to baseball games
and staying for like four or five innings, and I
mostly just like going for the atmosphere. I don't know's
the game to me is rather boring, but I like.
I love all the superstition. I love how eccentric and
weird some of the players are. Yeah, you know, but
(53:48):
it is more about the atmosphere and the lifestyle of
it than the actual game.
Speaker 2 (53:52):
If you have tickets, I'll go, you know, Okay, but
I would not rather go to a hockey game, a
basketball game, or a football game even And that's ok.
Speaker 1 (54:03):
Have you been watching the Celtics documentary on HBO.
Speaker 2 (54:06):
No, I have not, but I'm a big fan of
Larry Bird, so I guess it's probably that area, right.
Speaker 1 (54:12):
Well, it starts with Bob Kozier and Bill Bill Russell
like in the Red Arbach back in the for in
the old old days. But I think I'm sure they
get to Bird.
Speaker 2 (54:22):
I'll watch it. I mean, when I was a kid,
I was a Lakers fan, and now I have to
support the Knicks since I live here and they're the
games I can go see. You know, but going to
a basketball game is super fun.
Speaker 1 (54:34):
I agree that that's a fun atmosphere. Yeah, completely completely agree.
Speaker 2 (54:39):
All Right, Well, I guess that's all we have for
this week. But when you come back, you'll tell us
about hanging out with Ola, tell us about driving the
Cadillac IQ. We'll talk hopefully with Mark Royce, president of
General Motors and supercar guy, whose kid I believe is
like a pro level baseball player. Really yeah, I mean
(55:01):
he might, he might play for the Tigers. I don't know.
I think he played for University of Michigan, like varsity
baseball at a.
Speaker 1 (55:09):
D one team.
Speaker 2 (55:10):
And I know he at least I know he at
least tried out for the pros. I'm gonna dig into it.
I'll probably definitely, but he's an amazing baseball player.
Speaker 1 (55:23):
I'm Matt Miller, and I'm a Hanna Elliott, and this
is Bloomberg.
Hosts And Creators
Hannah Elliott
Matt Miller
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