December 5, 2025 • 45 mins
Luxury is slippery to define when you can spend $42,000 on a Mercedes-Benz or $114,000 on a Ford pickup truck. The term has become so ubiquitous, it has almost lost all meaning. That's the focus of Hannah's latest reporting. Plus we've been driving the latest and quickest Mercedes ever.
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio News. I'm Hannah Elliott and
I'm Matt Miller.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
This is Hot Pursuit coming up on today's podcast.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
My story just out on what even makes a luxury
car these days? I know there's at least in my
own head, a lot of questions about that. And later
we're talking Mercedes.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Yeah, there's a lot to talk about, by the way,
with Mercedes, because we got pictures of the baby g
which you know, you can google that and make your
own decision, but I think, well, it's it's interesting to
talk about. And then we got pictures of the the
g Wagon cabriolet. But you're driving actually what I think
(00:50):
is the very best Mercedes that you can buy if
you have an unlimited budget.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
I might agree with you. As much as I love
the g Wagon, I've been driving the AMG GT sixty
three se Performance, which is really a mouthful for just
basically the new AMGGT. And of course the thing to
know about this car is it now has a backseat
and an attempt to compete against the nine to eleven.
(01:19):
So we can definitely discuss whether that helps or hurts.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
Let's talk it. Let's start though, with the brand that
we almost never talk about because it's an easy segue
to make. Toyota is also looking to compete against nine
to eleven. Just today or maybe last night, we started
to see news break with pictures and details about Toyota's
new gr GT that's what they're calling it. And it's
(01:46):
like developed by their Gazoo Racing Unit, which is certainly
the silliest name of any like you know, that's their
m works or their AMG or their Magma. They're calling
it Gazoo.
Speaker 1 (02:01):
Racing and we can be forgiven for not knowing, and
our listeners can't too, because it doesn't exist in the US.
They don't sell these in the US.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
Right, I mean this, this GRGT won't be sold until
twenty twenty seven, So this at the earliest, the street
going version exactly of the GT three car that they
want to enter. They want to get into GT racing.
I think Lexis already does it right now with the LFA,
so they're going to do it with this. To me
(02:33):
looks gorgeous and a lot like the AMGGT. I mean,
do you think when you look at this thing, it's
got a huge long hood and then a two seater
with a cockpit way out back, and it's got a
big twin turbo V eight in the front as well.
Speaker 1 (02:51):
I'm going to strongly disagree and say it certainly didn't
call to Mind and Mercedes at all, but it does
look very Toyota. It reminds me of the old, older
Toyota racers of course that we know and love, like
Godzilla from back in the day, that are really worth
(03:12):
a lot of money. Now, I don't you know, it's interesting.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
Just the proportions, like you know, the GT, the previous,
the AMG one before what you're driving, and like the SLS.
This is what the proportions remind me of. I hope
the doors don't just open like normal doors.
Speaker 1 (03:33):
Please, Yes, I totally get it. Yeah, I mean, if
we're talking long nose, Wow, that's really a long one.
It's like a Corvette, like the Corvette long nose, like
the AMG GT long nose. For sure. You know what
I felt driving. It's a different feeling from like a
nine to eleven, for instance, which feels very centered. It
(03:54):
certainly feels like a huge protrusion to drive the G
drive anything in that shape, so to speak. Yes, but
obviously that's part of Toyota's heritage, and it's there for
a reason. I mean, do you like how that how
the car looks.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
I like how it looks because at first I don't
like it. So this is one of those those designs,
those shapes where it looks like it's the wrong proportions
at first. It reminds me of there's a car in
an old Bugs Bunny episode that just you see the
(04:32):
hood pulling up for so long and then you know,
outsteps the rival too. Maybe it's Tom and Jerry outsteps
you know, Jerry's rival or whatever with a diamond ring
for his girl, and that that kind of reminds me
of this. But I also like that Toyota has set
up so well for this release. So you know, we
(04:54):
used to write stories at Bloomberg about how they've missed
the boat on EV's and how could they not have
an vested in developing evs and they're going to be
so far behind when everybody else has developed the best
evs and Toyota has only gone with hybrids. And now
it looks like they were the smartest kid in class.
They've they've made so much money and saved so much
(05:15):
money that they're the number one most profitable car maker
in the whole world, and they've been making all of these,
you know, fuel efficient vehicles like the Prius, but everything
else they make it's fairly fuel efficient. So they have
really low average or high average fuel economy numbers, and
they can afford to put a V eight in this thing.
(05:35):
So now they're going to have six hundred and forty
one horse power six hundred and twenty seven pound feet
at least, that's what they say today about a car
that's going to be coming out in three years. But
I think it's great. You Now, everyone else is having
to scrimp and put out these VSE sixes, and no
one else has ever been able to do what really
what Portiae has done with the flat six or BMW
(05:57):
with the inline six. So I just think it's fairtastic,
it's cool.
Speaker 1 (06:01):
I totally agree with you on that. I any time
an automaker does a car that generates excitement, I'm all
for it. I don't even I honestly don't even care
what it looks like as long as it makes people
feel something. This is gonna be I mean, it looks,
it looks awesome. It looks to me very Toyota, and
I hope.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
They do make it.
Speaker 1 (06:23):
Obviously, these are just rendering, so I'm always very skeptical
when an automaker just puts out some pictures and says
this is what it's gonna be in a few years
from now, and often that changes. But I hope they
can produce it. I hope they that it actually looks
like what we'll look these renderings here. And yeah, I
(06:45):
mean it is fascinating that everybody is coming out with
internal combustion, especially I'm I'm sure you saw the news
about Trump, you know, going back on some of the
fuel and emissions goals for the US, and.
Speaker 2 (07:07):
It's already saved, dude, it's already saved. You know, American
car makers so much money in the order of billions
of dollars or at least more than a billion dollars
a year in savings for Ford, General Motors and stillants
because they don't have to buy these carbon credits from Tesla.
Whether you're for or against it, it's given them a
(07:28):
little bit more firepower. And the thing is, I'm not
sure everyone is going to be able to develop the
V eight in you know, they're more powerful cars obviously,
Ford has the Mustang obviously, you know, GM has the Corvette,
and they also have the six point two liter V
eight somehow and everything else, and then Stillantes is bringing
(07:51):
back the the hemy. But they all have to be
careful because when a new administration, if a new administration,
if we ever have an election again and someone else
is president who feels differently about you know, climate change
and the environment, they're going to put those caffee standards
right back on. And we know that it takes like four, three,
(08:13):
four or five years to develop a car, so I
don't think it's necessarily going to give us a whole
bunch more fire breathing V eights, But at least it's
a break for these car makers for the next for
the foreseeable future.
Speaker 1 (08:25):
Let's say I do agree that this this actually could
mean really nothing, because every time we have the chance
to talk to an auto executive, they all say, the
problem is the moving target. If we had a target
that we knew was immovable and would be, we'll hit
(08:46):
that target. But they all say it's the moving target
that is really difficult. So I do agree with you that,
you know, for people who love internal combustion, they might
be cheering this, but also it may not necessarily mean
that we're going to see a bunch of internal combustion
vehicles coming out like this cool new Toyota. And I
(09:11):
have to say, for the record again, I am not
against electric vehicles at all. I think they have a
lot of great applications. Someone yesterday was saying to me
electric vehicles were simply a failure of marketing and they
were marketed wrong, and I said, well, I totally disagree.
There are a lot of reasons why electric vehicles aren't
(09:32):
the prominent and dominant cars on the road today, but
it has really, to my mind, nothing to do with marketing,
and it has to do with a lot of other things.
Speaker 2 (09:43):
Yeah, no, I think, but I think both can both
are true. Right. Marketing also wasn't done well And do
you think that, Yeah, I do, because they seem to
be only going after initially kind of like the Preus
crowd or it was like a fat ad for rich
people to buy Tesla's like a virtue signaling thing. And yeah,
(10:05):
they didn't. They didn't start with Hey, these things can
be so powerful, And they didn't start with the big
bulky have you seen there was a fod dealer who
took a Bronco. I guess this is not an electric vehicle,
so that shouldn't There's I I have it. There's a
story about Scout, you know, Audi's brand that they're reviving,
(10:26):
and I'm excited about the uh the EV and apparently
Audi is going to make a G class competitor UH
that Scout will I guess, design and build so you'll
get these like butch looking, you know, very masculine, bulky
(10:48):
uh evs that I think Americans will want and probably
could sell. Well, I'm not saying the Audi will, but
I think the Scout probably will.
Speaker 1 (10:58):
So you're saying Audi is planning to launch a large
SUV will appeal like an off road or that will
appeal to Americans. Yes, and well, I mean build on
a Scout platform.
Speaker 2 (11:12):
This is the This is the rumor mill or what
I've seen from reading like autoblog and car scoops and
everything that. So since Folkswagen owns Scout and there's been
so much interest in that vehicle, which initially was planned
to be all EV and now the most orders are
(11:34):
for the EV that has a range extender, the Harvest version. Apparently,
now Audi is going to get Scout to build them
a big butch off road suv that obviously is only
going to be going to Starbucks and not off road,
but like the more expensive version, so it'll be their
g Wagon, but I'm guessing it'll also be an EV
(11:59):
like the G Wagon also EV itself. The what do
you call it, the eq G or whatever. That is
a great example of how you can have a big
butch off road suv. And I don't know I continue
to use that term, but that that is electric powered,
and the and the and the electric powertrain is perfect
(12:21):
for that kind of vehicle.
Speaker 1 (12:23):
I drove that vehicle in Austria and it was great.
Now they haven't sold a ton of them, but in
terms of performance it worked well. And this goes back
to my point about the marketing thing. I don't think
there's any I don't think you and I would say
that something like the electric g Wagon doesn't isn't a
(12:43):
good product. The problem is it's expensive, Yeah, and there's
not really a network to support it. And so why
would why would consumers aren't dumb? Why would they spend
more money on something that creates more inconvenience in their life? Yeah,
no matter, no matter, if it promises that they're going
to go to heaven for saving the world.
Speaker 2 (13:03):
No, you hit the nail on the head. That's really
what it is. It's the expense that's the problem. So
of course the electric G hasn't sold very many because
it's like one hundred and seventy thousand, and that's before
you put options on it, right. But the cool thing
about and that's the case for a lot of these,
you know, the Audi was one of the first out
(13:23):
of the gate with an electric suv with the e Tron,
which was a really great vehicle, not a lot of range,
but very luxurious to a lot of people and expensive. Right.
The cool thing about the Scout is that it's supposed
to be only sixty grand to start, or maybe sixty five,
which isn't cheap, but it's one hundred thousand dollars less
than yes, the G.
Speaker 1 (13:46):
And the other thing we have to remember too is
all of those federal incentives and rebates have now gone
or are disappearing, a lot of them, which also propped
up sales a lot of these vehicles. So now that
they are leaving or will soon some already have left,
I think it's going to be very interesting to see
(14:07):
how automakers, to your point, are able to try to
compete on a price on a price point with something
like a big SUV, Because you're right, like sixty grand
is not crazy for an sub's that's competitive.
Speaker 2 (14:24):
I would say, by the way, while we're on price,
can I just say it is insane how expensive Porschas
cost new and used. So I was like, I was
seeing used prices are so high that I thought I
might as well. I'd be better off buying a new one, right,
(14:44):
So I go on the website to configure a new
nine to eleven with the manual transmission, and so I
click on the manual box and there's only one choice
below GT three. You can't get a manual in the
Krera s, you can't get a manual on the GTS,
you can't get it in the base obviously. You can
only get a manual transmission in the Kara Tea, which
(15:05):
we used to laud is like the smart guy's Porsche,
because okay, it only has three hundred and eighty horse power,
but it's the cheapest and on American roads, what are
you going to do with five hundred horse power? Anyway,
that thing starts at over one hundred and fifty thousand dollars.
Speaker 1 (15:21):
That's wild.
Speaker 2 (15:23):
It's in no bag.
Speaker 1 (15:25):
Yes, and that I have to say, goes right into
this whole narrative that in September, according to Kelly Bluebook,
the average price of a new car in America today
hit over fifty thousand dollars for the first time ever.
The average price of a new car, and the thing
(15:46):
driving that rising average are two things, electric vehicles and
luxury cars like the kind that you're describing right now.
And we know that according to Bloomberg Intelligence, the average
price of any vehicle from Porsche on average, including all
the subs and everything, is over one hundred and fifteen
thousand dollars. So that and that obviously is being pulled
(16:09):
up by cars that you're describing. The manual stuff.
Speaker 2 (16:12):
Yeah, so I don't know why, really, why don't they
just make more manuals. I don't understand why you only
offer a manual transmission on one vehicle. And the answer,
I mean, they say it's the take rate, and that
it's you know, you would be surprised how many people
don't choose the manual. But your resale value is going
to be so much higher. At the manual transmission. It's
(16:34):
got to be consideration, even for people who don't know
how to drive with three pedals. It's like, would you
buy a nine to eleven and not option the sport Krono.
That's the dumbest decision ever, because then no one wants
to buy it from you in the used market. I
think that Porsha is putting manual transmissions and fewer and
fewer cars because it somehow is more expensive for them
to do so. It's the same reason they're not putting
(16:55):
gauges in the dash is because it's more expensive. It's
the same reason they don't have a handbreak with a handle.
It's because it's more expensive. They're doing all these things
to cut costs on a car that costs three times
the average new car cost. It's insane to me. They
must be in absolutely dire straits. I also want to
(17:15):
tell everybody who's listened, thank you for putting up with
these little clicks and pops that you hear, because I
have a brand new headset and it's like degassing right now.
I don't know what the deal is, but it's making
that all right, we are gonna take a break. We
come back, we'll talk about with so many luxury vehicles
(17:36):
on the market, how do we really separate the best
from the rest, or the fake from the real. Because
Hannah has a piece on what actually makes a luxury
car that's just ahead on Hot Pursuit. Welcome back to
(17:58):
Hot Pursuit from Bloomberg. Grady, I'm Matt Miller here with
Hannah Elliott and Hannah, you and I have had a
discussion for a long time. In fact, you've kind of
changed my view on this with your kind of base
case for what makes sort of the thirty five thousand
foot view of what makes a luxury car. What did
you write about for Bloomberg Pursuits.
Speaker 1 (18:19):
Well, it's something I think about quite a bit because
in today's market, we've got pickup trucks that cost one
hundred and twenty thousand dollars and we've got Mercedes that
cost forty thousand dollars. And you know, traditionally you think
Mercedes always luxury and pickup trucks non luxury. But it's
not that simple anymore. And you know, I spoke with
(18:42):
probably ten different automotive executives about this and how they
are defining luxury and how their customers define luxury, And
what I really came away with is that luxury is
certainly an ephemeral quality that is not defined by any
one thing. Nobody came back and said to me, luxury
(19:03):
is about performance, luxury is just about horsepower and sprint times,
or luxury is just about a certain price or a
certain popularity. It's a lot more nuanced, and I think
the number one thing people said is luxury is buying
into a family of like minded individuals where you feel
(19:25):
your own personal tastes can be communicated and then seen
and enjoyed among this family. So that was something that
Christopher Pegani told me about his clients, that Christoph Bugatti itemized,
that Chris brownwood Ridge at Rolls Royce. They all said,
(19:48):
it's about this close bond that when people buy the car,
they feel they're buying into an exclusive family that is welcoming,
that sees who they are on a very personal level
and then also reflects them. Which, yeah, that's like, that's
a little vague, but I thought that was very very interesting.
Speaker 2 (20:10):
Yeah, because your initial concept, and correct me if I'm wrong,
is luxury has got to be real, so real leather,
the dash has to be inlaid with real wood, a
reduced amount of plastics of artificial right. And ever since
you said that, I've been a believer. You know, I'm
(20:33):
now whenever I'm trying to judge whether or not something
is a luxury car, I want to see if it has,
you know, an actual clock rather than something digital. And
obviously automatic is better than courts. So but none of
these executives came back to that, because that's also you
(20:53):
could say, like maybe people are choosing people who would
normally buy a luxury product not to have leather their vehicles.
Speaker 1 (21:00):
Now, yeah, that's an interesting point. Some automakers like for instance, Volvo,
don't even offer leather anymore. I would argue the point
about the thing being real still holds. It's one layer
because in some cars, like for instance, a cone Eseg,
(21:21):
those certainly are you could put them in a luxury
car category. But a con Seg is not going to
have a bunch of wood trim and lambs wool carpeting.
A cone Eseg is something very different, even though the
people who are in those circles, who own and drive
and collect those cars, feel they're receiving a luxury experience.
So I think the quality of the materials is one
(21:44):
very important layer, it's not the only layer. And now
automakers are taking a very holistic look at a broader
definition of what luxury means. For instance, we know that
my Czarati has really suffered in terms of residual values
(22:05):
and in terms of reliability, and Maserati vehicles right now
are not among the top five options you'd probably want
for a car in any given segment, even though Masarati
is an old brand with a lot of heritage. But
I would not consider a Masarati a luxury purchase at
this point because they're falling behind in so many other
(22:28):
ways that the people who buy them are not getting
a full luxury experience.
Speaker 2 (22:34):
Does that make sense, Yeah, totally. I mean, well, first
of all, it's interesting that you think of Koeniggeg as
luxury because I've always drawn a line between sports or
performance and luxury. And even though there are companies that
I know of that blur that line, like Pegani and Bugatti,
(22:55):
I guess I just don't know enough about Koenigzeg to
know if you can actually be customizable. Is also, you know,
bespoke is something that luxury should be so you should
be able to pick the materials and the colors, and
luxury isn't something that's just like off the shelf. You know,
I'm not going to go and buy a luxury suit
(23:16):
without having it at least tailored.
Speaker 1 (23:18):
One thing that a lot of automakers told me is
that the car needs to be deeply meaningful on a
personal level. And one way that that is communicated is
through actually innovation, and it's being able to have the
innovation to create ways for the cars to be incredibly
(23:39):
customized and incredibly bespoked to the buyer. And that applies
both Rolls Royces, which have you know, one hundred percent
of the phantom sold are heavily bespoked to the criteria
of the customer. But that also does apply to Conix eggs,
which are hand built on a very slow timeline. They're
(24:00):
extremely rare, and they are built to the exact specifications
of the person who is paying for that car. So
I do consider that a luxury. It's a different type.
It's a new type. This is kind of the whole
point of the story. Like this, in this current world,
there is a new definition of luxury, and it's not
just about a bunch of wood and lambswool carpets and
(24:25):
chrome in a Bentley. It's a lot bigger than that.
Speaker 2 (24:29):
By the way, when you mentioned Maserati, I think of,
you know, things going wrong and breaking down, and I
don't have enough experience with that brand to say that,
you know, that's because of what's happened to me in
the past. It's just that I see these broken down
old Maseratis on, you know, on like a Craigslist all
the time. But I wonder if reliability is a part
(24:53):
of luxury or not, because if you think of like
the SZ bodied Rolls, Royce and Bentley's, they're definitely luxury vehicles,
but you can easily blow ahead gasket or have a
problem with the hydraulic system and end up with like
forty thousand dollars bills. Now, maybe it's no big deal
to rich people and so it can still be a
(25:15):
luxury product. But I would like I would prefer to
think of a luxury product as something like the Mercedes
over engineered Mercedes Benzes of the sixties and seventies, where
you know, they just spent so much to build these
things that they don't break down.
Speaker 1 (25:31):
Well. Certainly there are different rules for non new cars.
I think the piece that I wrote this week is
speaking strictly about new cars, you know, the brand new stuff.
In terms of in terms of collectible cars, that's a
whole other world. And you're completely right, I think reliability
goes out the window. That's a completely different animal.
Speaker 2 (25:54):
Well, the thing is, I think there's a lot of
new cars that seem to be engineered only to last
the life of the first lease. You know, in terms
of reliability, there are some very expensive German brands that
I suspect engineer cars to work very well for three
(26:19):
or four years and then everything starts to break and
it costs a hell of a lot of money to fix.
And they do that because they know that most people
are just swapping in and out of them, always wanting
to have the newest thing. Whereas back in the day
when my grandmother bought a car, you know, you would
buy a Rolls Royce, even though it was a huge
outlay if you had the cash, because you knew that
you would be driving that same Rolls Royce or your
(26:40):
driver would be chow foring you around in it for decades. Right, Yeah, yeah, I.
Speaker 1 (26:48):
Admit, And this is something we talk about all the time.
But I like, I think that mentality is a better mentality.
I think it's you buy something expecting to own it
and keep it for a long time. Now, I am
curious about this you have about the purposefully engineered to
break thing. Well, I don't know how to say that
(27:10):
in a better way. This is an interesting Is this
a conspiracy theory?
Speaker 2 (27:13):
No, it's not. I don't think. I don't think that
they engineer these things purposely to break, like a you know,
range Rover or Mercedes, like the air suspensions that all
of these very luxury, luxurious cars have. They're just complicated
systems that are difficult to make durable. So if you
(27:36):
have somebody, you know, abusing these things by driving them,
by commuting in them every day in the Northeast or
around Chicago, or you know in American places where the
roads are awful, they're just gonna need to fix and
any kind of fix because they're computerized with so many
specialized micro chips and you know, expensive, you know systems
(28:02):
that you know, it's just not going to work for
much longer than one, one or two leases. So I
don't think they're doing it on purpose. I just think
when they're faced with a more reliable choice, they realize
that's not as luxurious, and they're willing to inflict the
costs on the second or third owner. By the way,
I want to thank all of our listeners for putting
up with this annoying clicking that you might be hearing.
(28:25):
I have a new headset right now, and I believe
it's like degassing or something, but every time I move
even a little bit, it creaks. The NVH on this
headset has not been addressed. I need to get some
WD forty. So anyway, thanks for that. Let's move on.
Speaker 1 (28:43):
Coming up, we're going to talk a little Mercedes. You'll
hear my take on the twenty twenty five Mercedes Benz
I've been driving all week. I'm Hannah Elliott with Matt Miller,
and you're listening to Hot Pursuit from Bloomberg Radio. Welcome
back to Hot Pursuit from Bloomberg Radio. I'm Hannah Elliott
(29:04):
here with Matt Miller, and let's talk about Mercedes. The
AMGGT that I was driving all week. This is the
car if you've seen it on my Instagram, that is
in the desert sand color, which has gotten a ton
of feedback, both positive and negative. Some people have said
(29:27):
it looks like a hearing a device, and some people
have said it looks incredible. I actually like, I think
it's cool. It's probably not the best color ever for AMGGT,
but it's cool because it's different and it stands out.
Speaker 2 (29:43):
And you're not like it feels don't like it that
desert sand. You don't like it, And like everyone's everyone
has come out with the version of that. I noticed
Nathan Hoyt said he thinks it rules, and I respect
his opinion, Like, yeah, but I don't. And then, by
the way, the same thing when I got my I
(30:03):
got a Chevy Silverado ZR two back in like a
few years ago, and that color was very hot and
popular at the time, and I didn't get it then
I don't get it now. It honestly, it looks like
the color of a girdle, you know. It's like it's
like the color of stockings that my grandmother would buy
in an egg at the grocery store, you know, I do.
Speaker 1 (30:26):
I do agree with the idea that it would make
sense perhaps on a get wagon or some sort of
off road rig because it is very desert safari ish.
You could say, excus that way. I don't disagree with
you that it's like, I don't It could be bad.
It could be bad. I think I'm very much swayed
(30:52):
by the wheels, which are these forged split spoke gold
twenty one inch rims that someone said to me they
look like Lamborghini wheels in a good way. They look
so cool, and I think it just made the color pop.
And when I first saw the car, I was not
expecting it to be in that color, and I was like, wow,
that is different. It's definitely like in La where everybody
(31:16):
has a nine to eleven. If you really want to
stand out and get something that's different that will make
people look at you, this is a good option, especially
if you get it in this color.
Speaker 2 (31:26):
Oh, I would way rather have this car than the
nine to eleven I have, so let's talk about that.
I also spend a week driving competitor. And first of all,
which wheels do you have? Do you have the Monroni
in front of you? Because I have my configurator open,
Yes I do, so I've got what's the official name
of those those wheels? Are they? The ten?
Speaker 1 (31:45):
Official name is twenty one inch AMG forged split spoke
in gold, and they cost an extra twenty nine hundred bucks,
which I think is worth it the car. The suggested
retail price of this car is one hundred and ninety
five thousand dollars, and the total retail on the version
that I drove is two hundred and twenty one thousand.
Speaker 2 (32:05):
Yeah. I think those oh it's expensive. Yeah, and those
those prices are actually low because I've well compared my configurator.
I've opened up my configurator. I chose olive green and
the wheels, you said, And I'm already at two hundred
and seventeen, so I haven't even picked an option yet
other than the color and the wheels. And we can
(32:27):
get back to this because I think the color is
massively important. I used to wonder why they charged so
much for different colors, and now that I'm in the
market for a used car, I really understand it. But yes,
this car, I want to hear your take because I
think it's a far better choice than almost any nine
to eleven. You can get the amount of power. The
sheer numbers are mind blowing. I can't remember exactly, but
(32:49):
they're like eight hundred and twenty four horsepower and over
one thousand pound feet of torque.
Speaker 1 (32:56):
Right, Yes, eight hundred and five combined horsepower one thoy
forty seven pound feet of torque. We should say this
is a V eight hybrid and it's also four wheel drive,
so it's the dynamics of the car feel very different
than driving a nine to eleven. It's heavier, I mean,
(33:18):
just straight up, it's heavier, but it also over eight
hundred horsepower.
Speaker 2 (33:22):
To your point, I thought it doesn't feel as fast
as the numbers suggest when I was driving it.
Speaker 1 (33:28):
Well, there there's a reason for that. It's pretty heavy.
It weighs over forty five hundred pounds.
Speaker 2 (33:32):
Well, but it feels incredibly luxurious. I mean not like complicated.
And the interior I thought was pretty simple, but I
would say elegant. But it feels like a super luxury vehicle.
Speaker 1 (33:46):
Yes, absolutely completely. It's the it's the total package. To me,
it's it is the total package, and there is a
part of me that is a First of all, it
drives fabulous. This is the quickest Mercedes currently that you
can buy right now. It's the numbers, like we say,
(34:07):
speak for themselves. It really handles incredibly. It feels very
different to drive than a nine to eleven. First of all,
the proportions are different. The nose, like we said before,
is longer, it's more stretched out, it feels bigger, it
feels wider, it feels bulkier. So it's not an exact
comparison driving wise, but I think it is a really
(34:29):
interesting option that somebody should test drive before just diving
into getting a nine to eleven, because it's different. It's
it is different, and it's a fabulous car.
Speaker 2 (34:38):
Well, the motors in the front, for one thing, like
every other car in the world. The coolest thing about
the nine to eleven is that the motor is behind you,
so all of a sudden you're in like Lamborghini Ferrari
territory without spending that much money. And there's you know
(34:59):
what else, what other rear engine what other mid or
rear engine car is there? I guess you could say, well,
Corvette obviously, and then you've got like, you know, Boxers
and stuff. But this, like every other normal car, has
an engine in the front, which is why I think
it doesn't feel anything like a nine to eleven to
begin with. But I think it's the greatest thing you
(35:21):
can get from Mercedes. I mean, it's the most special.
Speaker 1 (35:24):
Did you ever drive the GTR the AMGGTR back in
like twenty seventeen, twenty eighteen.
Speaker 2 (35:32):
No, I never got to, but I did. You must
over them and drool over them as they were driving.
I think the AMGT was a better looking car in
that generation.
Speaker 1 (35:43):
I agree. I think that the GTR. And I remember
I actually pulled this up because I loved it so much.
In twenty seventeen, I said that the best car I
drove that entire year, the one that I want, that
I will not forget, is the GTR, the AMG GTR
from that specific year. It looks perfect. It's so cool,
(36:06):
it looks so cool. I don't think the new one
looks quite as good. The proportions slightly different.
Speaker 2 (36:12):
Yeah, well, the new one, their proportions make a lot
more sense. And this is what I was saying at
the top, Like the amggt's and I would take, by
the way, a gt R, a GTS, a GtC, I
don't care. Yeah, those when they pulled up, you were like,
that doesn't look right at first, because the nose is
too long in proportion to the rest of the car,
and it's that jarring kind of wakes you up and
(36:34):
you notice it and then you're like, damn, that looks awesome. Yeah,
I don't think that. I think this one looks too
too normal in comparison to that. But obviously it's gonna
be a newer, faster, it's going to hold the road better,
and maybe it won't be as special as the amggt's,
(36:56):
and they themselves weren't as special as the sls. But
I just think it's a it's a home run. I mean,
it's a slamm dock. This thing is just incredible.
Speaker 1 (37:05):
I agree. We should also say miles per gallon combined
is almost thirty miles per gallen, which for a car
with eight hundred horsepower is pretty incredible. And again, for me,
the mileage thing is more about I don't want to
have to break up my day to stop for gas.
And maybe I'm going to hell for this, but I
(37:27):
don't care as much about like miles per gallon. I
care about having to stop at the gas station less,
just the truth.
Speaker 2 (37:35):
Look, you're going to be able to hit these high
numbers with hybrids. But this is another reason I think
hybrids are are the way forward. Yeah, the packaging maybe
isn't right on all of them, but this is why
I like, for example, the Corvette E Ray. You still
have the power, the ferociousness, the brutality of the big
(37:55):
V eight behind you, but you have an extra push
or pull in the case of the Corvette, because it's
on the front wheels of the battery, and it just
makes it so much quicker. It makes it so much grippier.
Obviously it makes it heavier and more complex, which is
also which a lot of people could see as a problem,
and I'm sure at some point will become a problem.
But yeah, I just think it's a fantastic car. By
(38:17):
the way, when I go on the configurator to build this,
to build my own version of a two hundred and
fifty thousand dollars car, there are i mean like one
hundred different color choices, and I'm not exaggerating. And I
used to wonder, like, why would someone pay an extra
you know, when the AMGGT came out, they offered it
(38:39):
an exclusive Sunbeam yellow for an extra ten thousand dollars,
and I thought, who would pick that? Like, first of all,
a yellow car is always a mistake, but also paying
an extra ten thousand dollars. I thought it was silly
and why would they charge you for that? But now
that I'm looking at old cars and everyone, for some
reason or the most people have for some reason chosen
(39:00):
black or white trs to colors that I don't want.
And then I'm looking at a respray. I realized that
a total paint job done well is going to cost
twenty five thousand dollars. So then ten thousand for the
sunbeam yellow doesn't seem too much to me if it
were a different color than yellow. So now that Mercedes
(39:21):
is offering like one hundred different sort of PTS style colors,
and it's completely worth it, I think, because you separate
your vehicle from every other one on the street. And
it gets back to your point about what real luxury is.
Speaker 1 (39:36):
Completely this desert sand color. I know a lot of
people hate it, including you, Matt, for reference sixty five
hundred dollars extra to get it painted like that. Here's
one thing on the topic of color that I have
never understood. Any time I'm talking to car guys and
I do mean guys, and I say what car do
(39:59):
you have? And they nobody says the color of the
car until I ask what color is it? Why is that?
Speaker 2 (40:08):
That's a good point. Actually, I was just uh, I
was just listening to Doug DeMuro talking about his new
his new nine nine three turbo that he got and
the other two guys on his podcast. Their first question
was what color? It is everyone's first question whenever you
say you have a new question.
Speaker 1 (40:27):
But why don't people just say it like, oh, it's
a red whatever?
Speaker 2 (40:33):
Yeah I don't. It's a good point. Like if I
were Doug, I would have said, yeah, I got an
Arena red nine nine three turbo, right, you know, but yeah,
you're right, But it is the first question. And why.
What struck me as funny is he's talking to these
two like total car guys, dudes who know like every
vehicle ever made and each trim level and you know,
(40:56):
the different specs on different generations, and they know so
much about the car, the vehicle, the engine, the handling,
you know, and yet their first question is what color.
It seems so elementary, right, it seems so basic.
Speaker 1 (41:11):
Well, colors are emotional, you know, the colors are. It
makes me feel like a kid. If I see a
cool color, I feel like I did when I was
a little girl. You get excited, you.
Speaker 2 (41:22):
Know, And this is this is why I think it's
worth it to spend the extra ten grand. I mean,
if you're buying this car, it's already a two hundred
thousand dollars car to start with, so you might as
well sink ten grand.
Speaker 1 (41:34):
Another question for you on this car. Would you pay
an extra twenty one hundred dollars for a panorama roof
on this car?
Speaker 2 (41:44):
So personally I would, But there's so many people out
there who are opposed to sunroofs and panorama panorama roofs
because they're heavier. I don't know if that's the case
with this I don't know if that's the case with
this current technology. But I as a very tall person
in a sports car, and you had the same experience
(42:06):
when I pull up to a stoplight. If I'm the
first car at the intersection, if there's a hard top
and there's no panoranama roof, or if there's a sunroof
and it's closed, I have to lean forward over my
steering wheel and look up a lot of times to
see when the light's going to turn green. Right. This
is an experience I had in my old nine to eleven.
(42:28):
So with my nine to eleven, I had the glass
roof so I could lean back and look up through
the roof at this at the stoplight for its turn
green and it was falling. For Yes, that's why I
need to be able to see through the roof essentially,
And to me, it's worth like I was just configuring
a Kara tee on the Porsche website, and you can
(42:52):
option the carbon fiber roof, right it saves forty pounds
forty pounds. Do I care about forty pounds. I've lost
twenty nine pounds in the last three months, so I'm
already saving almost all of that. Thank you very much
doing the work it for yourself exactly. So you know
a lot of people I think are going to choose
(43:13):
the carbon fiber roof even though they weigh two hundred
and fifty pounds and they should just go on to
die instead.
Speaker 1 (43:19):
Well, I agree. This car did have a panorama roof,
and it had gobs of headspace gobs, gobs cobs like
I could have worn my tallest hat and been and
still had multiple inches ahead of over my head. So
you're whenever you get in this one, Matt, You're gonna
love it because it's really really big in the cabin.
And the other thing I liked about this panorama roof
(43:41):
is the shade for it was just like a normal handle.
You just moved it with your hand. There was no button,
there was no switch to hold down while the shade
slowly gets pulled forward automatically. It was literally just you
move the shade with your hand like a normal thing,
which was so much better. And it was another case
(44:04):
of probably lighter, one less thing to break, and actually
quicker and simpler than trying to put technology up there
to hold a button down to close and open this sunshade.
Speaker 2 (44:16):
Brilliant. I love things that are manual me too, As
you know. It was great.
Speaker 1 (44:22):
So yeah, you are really the.
Speaker 2 (44:24):
Fewer things to break the better, is what I'm is
what I've been thinking about a lot a lot lately.
Speaker 1 (44:30):
Agree.
Speaker 2 (44:31):
All right, Well, I would guess that's all we have
time for this week, Is that right?
Speaker 1 (44:36):
I want to say thank you to everybody who writes
into us. We really appreciate the dialogue. Remember to follow
and subscribe to Hot Pursuit on Apple, Spotify, and anywhere
else you listen. You can also send us your comments
by emailing us at hot Pursuit at Bloomberg dot net.
Speaker 2 (44:55):
Yeah, and we've gotten some pretty awesome emails, I should
say lately. Yes, you know that one of my favorite
podcasts like and probably my most watched YouTube channel is
TfL right The Fast Lane Trucks, And I got an
email from Roman who used to who was a guest
on our show at one point, So I thank him
(45:15):
for listening, and I also want to tell everybody who's listened,
thank you for putting up with these little clicks and pops.
Speaker 1 (45:23):
Lead here, I can't hear it at all. Matt, you're
loud and clear for me.
Speaker 2 (45:27):
Good good, good good, all right, Well, keep writing into
us at Hot Pursuit at Bloomberg dot net and tune
back in next week, same time, same place. I'm Matt Miller.
We'll see you again next week
Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio News. I'm Hannah Elliott and
I'm Matt Miller.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
This is Hot Pursuit coming up on today's podcast.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
My story just out on what even makes a luxury
car these days? I know there's at least in my
own head, a lot of questions about that. And later
we're talking Mercedes.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Yeah, there's a lot to talk about, by the way,
with Mercedes, because we got pictures of the baby g
which you know, you can google that and make your
own decision, but I think, well, it's it's interesting to
talk about. And then we got pictures of the the
g Wagon cabriolet. But you're driving actually what I think
(00:50):
is the very best Mercedes that you can buy if
you have an unlimited budget.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
I might agree with you. As much as I love
the g Wagon, I've been driving the AMG GT sixty
three se Performance, which is really a mouthful for just
basically the new AMGGT. And of course the thing to
know about this car is it now has a backseat
and an attempt to compete against the nine to eleven.
(01:19):
So we can definitely discuss whether that helps or hurts.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
Let's talk it. Let's start though, with the brand that
we almost never talk about because it's an easy segue
to make. Toyota is also looking to compete against nine
to eleven. Just today or maybe last night, we started
to see news break with pictures and details about Toyota's
new gr GT that's what they're calling it. And it's
(01:46):
like developed by their Gazoo Racing Unit, which is certainly
the silliest name of any like you know, that's their
m works or their AMG or their Magma. They're calling
it Gazoo.
Speaker 1 (02:01):
Racing and we can be forgiven for not knowing, and
our listeners can't too, because it doesn't exist in the US.
They don't sell these in the US.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
Right, I mean this, this GRGT won't be sold until
twenty twenty seven, So this at the earliest, the street
going version exactly of the GT three car that they
want to enter. They want to get into GT racing.
I think Lexis already does it right now with the LFA,
so they're going to do it with this. To me
(02:33):
looks gorgeous and a lot like the AMGGT. I mean,
do you think when you look at this thing, it's
got a huge long hood and then a two seater
with a cockpit way out back, and it's got a
big twin turbo V eight in the front as well.
Speaker 1 (02:51):
I'm going to strongly disagree and say it certainly didn't
call to Mind and Mercedes at all, but it does
look very Toyota. It reminds me of the old, older
Toyota racers of course that we know and love, like
Godzilla from back in the day, that are really worth
(03:12):
a lot of money. Now, I don't you know, it's interesting.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
Just the proportions, like you know, the GT, the previous,
the AMG one before what you're driving, and like the SLS.
This is what the proportions remind me of. I hope
the doors don't just open like normal doors.
Speaker 1 (03:33):
Please, Yes, I totally get it. Yeah, I mean, if
we're talking long nose, Wow, that's really a long one.
It's like a Corvette, like the Corvette long nose, like
the AMG GT long nose. For sure. You know what
I felt driving. It's a different feeling from like a
nine to eleven, for instance, which feels very centered. It
(03:54):
certainly feels like a huge protrusion to drive the G
drive anything in that shape, so to speak. Yes, but
obviously that's part of Toyota's heritage, and it's there for
a reason. I mean, do you like how that how
the car looks.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
I like how it looks because at first I don't
like it. So this is one of those those designs,
those shapes where it looks like it's the wrong proportions
at first. It reminds me of there's a car in
an old Bugs Bunny episode that just you see the
(04:32):
hood pulling up for so long and then you know,
outsteps the rival too. Maybe it's Tom and Jerry outsteps
you know, Jerry's rival or whatever with a diamond ring
for his girl, and that that kind of reminds me
of this. But I also like that Toyota has set
up so well for this release. So you know, we
(04:54):
used to write stories at Bloomberg about how they've missed
the boat on EV's and how could they not have
an vested in developing evs and they're going to be
so far behind when everybody else has developed the best
evs and Toyota has only gone with hybrids. And now
it looks like they were the smartest kid in class.
They've they've made so much money and saved so much
(05:15):
money that they're the number one most profitable car maker
in the whole world, and they've been making all of these,
you know, fuel efficient vehicles like the Prius, but everything
else they make it's fairly fuel efficient. So they have
really low average or high average fuel economy numbers, and
they can afford to put a V eight in this thing.
(05:35):
So now they're going to have six hundred and forty
one horse power six hundred and twenty seven pound feet
at least, that's what they say today about a car
that's going to be coming out in three years. But
I think it's great. You Now, everyone else is having
to scrimp and put out these VSE sixes, and no
one else has ever been able to do what really
what Portiae has done with the flat six or BMW
(05:57):
with the inline six. So I just think it's fairtastic,
it's cool.
Speaker 1 (06:01):
I totally agree with you on that. I any time
an automaker does a car that generates excitement, I'm all
for it. I don't even I honestly don't even care
what it looks like as long as it makes people
feel something. This is gonna be I mean, it looks,
it looks awesome. It looks to me very Toyota, and
I hope.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
They do make it.
Speaker 1 (06:23):
Obviously, these are just rendering, so I'm always very skeptical
when an automaker just puts out some pictures and says
this is what it's gonna be in a few years
from now, and often that changes. But I hope they
can produce it. I hope they that it actually looks
like what we'll look these renderings here. And yeah, I
(06:45):
mean it is fascinating that everybody is coming out with
internal combustion, especially I'm I'm sure you saw the news
about Trump, you know, going back on some of the
fuel and emissions goals for the US, and.
Speaker 2 (07:07):
It's already saved, dude, it's already saved. You know, American
car makers so much money in the order of billions
of dollars or at least more than a billion dollars
a year in savings for Ford, General Motors and stillants
because they don't have to buy these carbon credits from Tesla.
Whether you're for or against it, it's given them a
(07:28):
little bit more firepower. And the thing is, I'm not
sure everyone is going to be able to develop the
V eight in you know, they're more powerful cars obviously,
Ford has the Mustang obviously, you know, GM has the Corvette,
and they also have the six point two liter V
eight somehow and everything else, and then Stillantes is bringing
(07:51):
back the the hemy. But they all have to be
careful because when a new administration, if a new administration,
if we ever have an election again and someone else
is president who feels differently about you know, climate change
and the environment, they're going to put those caffee standards
right back on. And we know that it takes like four, three,
(08:13):
four or five years to develop a car, so I
don't think it's necessarily going to give us a whole
bunch more fire breathing V eights, But at least it's
a break for these car makers for the next for
the foreseeable future.
Speaker 1 (08:25):
Let's say I do agree that this this actually could
mean really nothing, because every time we have the chance
to talk to an auto executive, they all say, the
problem is the moving target. If we had a target
that we knew was immovable and would be, we'll hit
(08:46):
that target. But they all say it's the moving target
that is really difficult. So I do agree with you that,
you know, for people who love internal combustion, they might
be cheering this, but also it may not necessarily mean
that we're going to see a bunch of internal combustion
vehicles coming out like this cool new Toyota. And I
(09:11):
have to say, for the record again, I am not
against electric vehicles at all. I think they have a
lot of great applications. Someone yesterday was saying to me
electric vehicles were simply a failure of marketing and they
were marketed wrong, and I said, well, I totally disagree.
There are a lot of reasons why electric vehicles aren't
(09:32):
the prominent and dominant cars on the road today, but
it has really, to my mind, nothing to do with marketing,
and it has to do with a lot of other things.
Speaker 2 (09:43):
Yeah, no, I think, but I think both can both
are true. Right. Marketing also wasn't done well And do
you think that, Yeah, I do, because they seem to
be only going after initially kind of like the Preus
crowd or it was like a fat ad for rich
people to buy Tesla's like a virtue signaling thing. And yeah,
(10:05):
they didn't. They didn't start with Hey, these things can
be so powerful, And they didn't start with the big
bulky have you seen there was a fod dealer who
took a Bronco. I guess this is not an electric vehicle,
so that shouldn't There's I I have it. There's a
story about Scout, you know, Audi's brand that they're reviving,
(10:26):
and I'm excited about the uh the EV and apparently
Audi is going to make a G class competitor UH
that Scout will I guess, design and build so you'll
get these like butch looking, you know, very masculine, bulky
(10:48):
uh evs that I think Americans will want and probably
could sell. Well, I'm not saying the Audi will, but
I think the Scout probably will.
Speaker 1 (10:58):
So you're saying Audi is planning to launch a large
SUV will appeal like an off road or that will
appeal to Americans. Yes, and well, I mean build on
a Scout platform.
Speaker 2 (11:12):
This is the This is the rumor mill or what
I've seen from reading like autoblog and car scoops and
everything that. So since Folkswagen owns Scout and there's been
so much interest in that vehicle, which initially was planned
to be all EV and now the most orders are
(11:34):
for the EV that has a range extender, the Harvest version. Apparently,
now Audi is going to get Scout to build them
a big butch off road suv that obviously is only
going to be going to Starbucks and not off road,
but like the more expensive version, so it'll be their
g Wagon, but I'm guessing it'll also be an EV
(11:59):
like the G Wagon also EV itself. The what do
you call it, the eq G or whatever. That is
a great example of how you can have a big
butch off road suv. And I don't know I continue
to use that term, but that that is electric powered,
and the and the and the electric powertrain is perfect
(12:21):
for that kind of vehicle.
Speaker 1 (12:23):
I drove that vehicle in Austria and it was great.
Now they haven't sold a ton of them, but in
terms of performance it worked well. And this goes back
to my point about the marketing thing. I don't think
there's any I don't think you and I would say
that something like the electric g Wagon doesn't isn't a
(12:43):
good product. The problem is it's expensive, Yeah, and there's
not really a network to support it. And so why
would why would consumers aren't dumb? Why would they spend
more money on something that creates more inconvenience in their life? Yeah,
no matter, no matter, if it promises that they're going
to go to heaven for saving the world.
Speaker 2 (13:03):
No, you hit the nail on the head. That's really
what it is. It's the expense that's the problem. So
of course the electric G hasn't sold very many because
it's like one hundred and seventy thousand, and that's before
you put options on it, right. But the cool thing
about and that's the case for a lot of these,
you know, the Audi was one of the first out
(13:23):
of the gate with an electric suv with the e Tron,
which was a really great vehicle, not a lot of range,
but very luxurious to a lot of people and expensive. Right.
The cool thing about the Scout is that it's supposed
to be only sixty grand to start, or maybe sixty five,
which isn't cheap, but it's one hundred thousand dollars less
than yes, the G.
Speaker 1 (13:46):
And the other thing we have to remember too is
all of those federal incentives and rebates have now gone
or are disappearing, a lot of them, which also propped
up sales a lot of these vehicles. So now that
they are leaving or will soon some already have left,
I think it's going to be very interesting to see
(14:07):
how automakers, to your point, are able to try to
compete on a price on a price point with something
like a big SUV, Because you're right, like sixty grand
is not crazy for an sub's that's competitive.
Speaker 2 (14:24):
I would say, by the way, while we're on price,
can I just say it is insane how expensive Porschas
cost new and used. So I was like, I was
seeing used prices are so high that I thought I
might as well. I'd be better off buying a new one, right,
(14:44):
So I go on the website to configure a new
nine to eleven with the manual transmission, and so I
click on the manual box and there's only one choice
below GT three. You can't get a manual in the
Krera s, you can't get a manual on the GTS,
you can't get it in the base obviously. You can
only get a manual transmission in the Kara Tea, which
(15:05):
we used to laud is like the smart guy's Porsche,
because okay, it only has three hundred and eighty horse power,
but it's the cheapest and on American roads, what are
you going to do with five hundred horse power? Anyway,
that thing starts at over one hundred and fifty thousand dollars.
Speaker 1 (15:21):
That's wild.
Speaker 2 (15:23):
It's in no bag.
Speaker 1 (15:25):
Yes, and that I have to say, goes right into
this whole narrative that in September, according to Kelly Bluebook,
the average price of a new car in America today
hit over fifty thousand dollars for the first time ever.
The average price of a new car, and the thing
(15:46):
driving that rising average are two things, electric vehicles and
luxury cars like the kind that you're describing right now.
And we know that according to Bloomberg Intelligence, the average
price of any vehicle from Porsche on average, including all
the subs and everything, is over one hundred and fifteen
thousand dollars. So that and that obviously is being pulled
(16:09):
up by cars that you're describing. The manual stuff.
Speaker 2 (16:12):
Yeah, so I don't know why, really, why don't they
just make more manuals. I don't understand why you only
offer a manual transmission on one vehicle. And the answer,
I mean, they say it's the take rate, and that
it's you know, you would be surprised how many people
don't choose the manual. But your resale value is going
to be so much higher. At the manual transmission. It's
(16:34):
got to be consideration, even for people who don't know
how to drive with three pedals. It's like, would you
buy a nine to eleven and not option the sport Krono.
That's the dumbest decision ever, because then no one wants
to buy it from you in the used market. I
think that Porsha is putting manual transmissions and fewer and
fewer cars because it somehow is more expensive for them
to do so. It's the same reason they're not putting
(16:55):
gauges in the dash is because it's more expensive. It's
the same reason they don't have a handbreak with a handle.
It's because it's more expensive. They're doing all these things
to cut costs on a car that costs three times
the average new car cost. It's insane to me. They
must be in absolutely dire straits. I also want to
(17:15):
tell everybody who's listened, thank you for putting up with
these little clicks and pops that you hear, because I
have a brand new headset and it's like degassing right now.
I don't know what the deal is, but it's making
that all right, we are gonna take a break. We
come back, we'll talk about with so many luxury vehicles
(17:36):
on the market, how do we really separate the best
from the rest, or the fake from the real. Because
Hannah has a piece on what actually makes a luxury
car that's just ahead on Hot Pursuit. Welcome back to
(17:58):
Hot Pursuit from Bloomberg. Grady, I'm Matt Miller here with
Hannah Elliott and Hannah, you and I have had a
discussion for a long time. In fact, you've kind of
changed my view on this with your kind of base
case for what makes sort of the thirty five thousand
foot view of what makes a luxury car. What did
you write about for Bloomberg Pursuits.
Speaker 1 (18:19):
Well, it's something I think about quite a bit because
in today's market, we've got pickup trucks that cost one
hundred and twenty thousand dollars and we've got Mercedes that
cost forty thousand dollars. And you know, traditionally you think
Mercedes always luxury and pickup trucks non luxury. But it's
not that simple anymore. And you know, I spoke with
(18:42):
probably ten different automotive executives about this and how they
are defining luxury and how their customers define luxury, And
what I really came away with is that luxury is
certainly an ephemeral quality that is not defined by any
one thing. Nobody came back and said to me, luxury
(19:03):
is about performance, luxury is just about horsepower and sprint times,
or luxury is just about a certain price or a
certain popularity. It's a lot more nuanced, and I think
the number one thing people said is luxury is buying
into a family of like minded individuals where you feel
(19:25):
your own personal tastes can be communicated and then seen
and enjoyed among this family. So that was something that
Christopher Pegani told me about his clients, that Christoph Bugatti itemized,
that Chris brownwood Ridge at Rolls Royce. They all said,
(19:48):
it's about this close bond that when people buy the car,
they feel they're buying into an exclusive family that is welcoming,
that sees who they are on a very personal level
and then also reflects them. Which, yeah, that's like, that's
a little vague, but I thought that was very very interesting.
Speaker 2 (20:10):
Yeah, because your initial concept, and correct me if I'm wrong,
is luxury has got to be real, so real leather,
the dash has to be inlaid with real wood, a
reduced amount of plastics of artificial right. And ever since
you said that, I've been a believer. You know, I'm
(20:33):
now whenever I'm trying to judge whether or not something
is a luxury car, I want to see if it has,
you know, an actual clock rather than something digital. And
obviously automatic is better than courts. So but none of
these executives came back to that, because that's also you
(20:53):
could say, like maybe people are choosing people who would
normally buy a luxury product not to have leather their vehicles.
Speaker 1 (21:00):
Now, yeah, that's an interesting point. Some automakers like for instance, Volvo,
don't even offer leather anymore. I would argue the point
about the thing being real still holds. It's one layer
because in some cars, like for instance, a cone Eseg,
(21:21):
those certainly are you could put them in a luxury
car category. But a con Seg is not going to
have a bunch of wood trim and lambs wool carpeting.
A cone Eseg is something very different, even though the
people who are in those circles, who own and drive
and collect those cars, feel they're receiving a luxury experience.
So I think the quality of the materials is one
(21:44):
very important layer, it's not the only layer. And now
automakers are taking a very holistic look at a broader
definition of what luxury means. For instance, we know that
my Czarati has really suffered in terms of residual values
(22:05):
and in terms of reliability, and Maserati vehicles right now
are not among the top five options you'd probably want
for a car in any given segment, even though Masarati
is an old brand with a lot of heritage. But
I would not consider a Masarati a luxury purchase at
this point because they're falling behind in so many other
(22:28):
ways that the people who buy them are not getting
a full luxury experience.
Speaker 2 (22:34):
Does that make sense, Yeah, totally. I mean, well, first
of all, it's interesting that you think of Koeniggeg as
luxury because I've always drawn a line between sports or
performance and luxury. And even though there are companies that
I know of that blur that line, like Pegani and Bugatti,
(22:55):
I guess I just don't know enough about Koenigzeg to
know if you can actually be customizable. Is also, you know,
bespoke is something that luxury should be so you should
be able to pick the materials and the colors, and
luxury isn't something that's just like off the shelf. You know,
I'm not going to go and buy a luxury suit
(23:16):
without having it at least tailored.
Speaker 1 (23:18):
One thing that a lot of automakers told me is
that the car needs to be deeply meaningful on a
personal level. And one way that that is communicated is
through actually innovation, and it's being able to have the
innovation to create ways for the cars to be incredibly
(23:39):
customized and incredibly bespoked to the buyer. And that applies
both Rolls Royces, which have you know, one hundred percent
of the phantom sold are heavily bespoked to the criteria
of the customer. But that also does apply to Conix eggs,
which are hand built on a very slow timeline. They're
(24:00):
extremely rare, and they are built to the exact specifications
of the person who is paying for that car. So
I do consider that a luxury. It's a different type.
It's a new type. This is kind of the whole
point of the story. Like this, in this current world,
there is a new definition of luxury, and it's not
just about a bunch of wood and lambswool carpets and
(24:25):
chrome in a Bentley. It's a lot bigger than that.
Speaker 2 (24:29):
By the way, when you mentioned Maserati, I think of,
you know, things going wrong and breaking down, and I
don't have enough experience with that brand to say that,
you know, that's because of what's happened to me in
the past. It's just that I see these broken down
old Maseratis on, you know, on like a Craigslist all
the time. But I wonder if reliability is a part
(24:53):
of luxury or not, because if you think of like
the SZ bodied Rolls, Royce and Bentley's, they're definitely luxury vehicles,
but you can easily blow ahead gasket or have a
problem with the hydraulic system and end up with like
forty thousand dollars bills. Now, maybe it's no big deal
to rich people and so it can still be a
(25:15):
luxury product. But I would like I would prefer to
think of a luxury product as something like the Mercedes
over engineered Mercedes Benzes of the sixties and seventies, where
you know, they just spent so much to build these
things that they don't break down.
Speaker 1 (25:31):
Well. Certainly there are different rules for non new cars.
I think the piece that I wrote this week is
speaking strictly about new cars, you know, the brand new stuff.
In terms of in terms of collectible cars, that's a
whole other world. And you're completely right, I think reliability
goes out the window. That's a completely different animal.
Speaker 2 (25:54):
Well, the thing is, I think there's a lot of
new cars that seem to be engineered only to last
the life of the first lease. You know, in terms
of reliability, there are some very expensive German brands that
I suspect engineer cars to work very well for three
(26:19):
or four years and then everything starts to break and
it costs a hell of a lot of money to fix.
And they do that because they know that most people
are just swapping in and out of them, always wanting
to have the newest thing. Whereas back in the day
when my grandmother bought a car, you know, you would
buy a Rolls Royce, even though it was a huge
outlay if you had the cash, because you knew that
you would be driving that same Rolls Royce or your
(26:40):
driver would be chow foring you around in it for decades. Right, Yeah, yeah, I.
Speaker 1 (26:48):
Admit, And this is something we talk about all the time.
But I like, I think that mentality is a better mentality.
I think it's you buy something expecting to own it
and keep it for a long time. Now, I am
curious about this you have about the purposefully engineered to
break thing. Well, I don't know how to say that
(27:10):
in a better way. This is an interesting Is this
a conspiracy theory?
Speaker 2 (27:13):
No, it's not. I don't think. I don't think that
they engineer these things purposely to break, like a you know,
range Rover or Mercedes, like the air suspensions that all
of these very luxury, luxurious cars have. They're just complicated
systems that are difficult to make durable. So if you
(27:36):
have somebody, you know, abusing these things by driving them,
by commuting in them every day in the Northeast or
around Chicago, or you know in American places where the
roads are awful, they're just gonna need to fix and
any kind of fix because they're computerized with so many
specialized micro chips and you know, expensive, you know systems
(28:02):
that you know, it's just not going to work for
much longer than one, one or two leases. So I
don't think they're doing it on purpose. I just think
when they're faced with a more reliable choice, they realize
that's not as luxurious, and they're willing to inflict the
costs on the second or third owner. By the way,
I want to thank all of our listeners for putting
up with this annoying clicking that you might be hearing.
(28:25):
I have a new headset right now, and I believe
it's like degassing or something, but every time I move
even a little bit, it creaks. The NVH on this
headset has not been addressed. I need to get some
WD forty. So anyway, thanks for that. Let's move on.
Speaker 1 (28:43):
Coming up, we're going to talk a little Mercedes. You'll
hear my take on the twenty twenty five Mercedes Benz
I've been driving all week. I'm Hannah Elliott with Matt Miller,
and you're listening to Hot Pursuit from Bloomberg Radio. Welcome
back to Hot Pursuit from Bloomberg Radio. I'm Hannah Elliott
(29:04):
here with Matt Miller, and let's talk about Mercedes. The
AMGGT that I was driving all week. This is the
car if you've seen it on my Instagram, that is
in the desert sand color, which has gotten a ton
of feedback, both positive and negative. Some people have said
(29:27):
it looks like a hearing a device, and some people
have said it looks incredible. I actually like, I think
it's cool. It's probably not the best color ever for AMGGT,
but it's cool because it's different and it stands out.
Speaker 2 (29:43):
And you're not like it feels don't like it that
desert sand. You don't like it, And like everyone's everyone
has come out with the version of that. I noticed
Nathan Hoyt said he thinks it rules, and I respect
his opinion, Like, yeah, but I don't. And then, by
the way, the same thing when I got my I
(30:03):
got a Chevy Silverado ZR two back in like a
few years ago, and that color was very hot and
popular at the time, and I didn't get it then
I don't get it now. It honestly, it looks like
the color of a girdle, you know. It's like it's
like the color of stockings that my grandmother would buy
in an egg at the grocery store, you know, I do.
Speaker 1 (30:26):
I do agree with the idea that it would make
sense perhaps on a get wagon or some sort of
off road rig because it is very desert safari ish.
You could say, excus that way. I don't disagree with
you that it's like, I don't It could be bad.
It could be bad. I think I'm very much swayed
(30:52):
by the wheels, which are these forged split spoke gold
twenty one inch rims that someone said to me they
look like Lamborghini wheels in a good way. They look
so cool, and I think it just made the color pop.
And when I first saw the car, I was not
expecting it to be in that color, and I was like, wow,
that is different. It's definitely like in La where everybody
(31:16):
has a nine to eleven. If you really want to
stand out and get something that's different that will make
people look at you, this is a good option, especially
if you get it in this color.
Speaker 2 (31:26):
Oh, I would way rather have this car than the
nine to eleven I have, so let's talk about that.
I also spend a week driving competitor. And first of all,
which wheels do you have? Do you have the Monroni
in front of you? Because I have my configurator open,
Yes I do, so I've got what's the official name
of those those wheels? Are they? The ten?
Speaker 1 (31:45):
Official name is twenty one inch AMG forged split spoke
in gold, and they cost an extra twenty nine hundred bucks,
which I think is worth it the car. The suggested
retail price of this car is one hundred and ninety
five thousand dollars, and the total retail on the version
that I drove is two hundred and twenty one thousand.
Speaker 2 (32:05):
Yeah. I think those oh it's expensive. Yeah, and those
those prices are actually low because I've well compared my configurator.
I've opened up my configurator. I chose olive green and
the wheels, you said, And I'm already at two hundred
and seventeen, so I haven't even picked an option yet
other than the color and the wheels. And we can
(32:27):
get back to this because I think the color is
massively important. I used to wonder why they charged so
much for different colors, and now that I'm in the
market for a used car, I really understand it. But yes,
this car, I want to hear your take because I
think it's a far better choice than almost any nine
to eleven. You can get the amount of power. The
sheer numbers are mind blowing. I can't remember exactly, but
(32:49):
they're like eight hundred and twenty four horsepower and over
one thousand pound feet of torque.
Speaker 1 (32:56):
Right, Yes, eight hundred and five combined horsepower one thoy
forty seven pound feet of torque. We should say this
is a V eight hybrid and it's also four wheel drive,
so it's the dynamics of the car feel very different
than driving a nine to eleven. It's heavier, I mean,
(33:18):
just straight up, it's heavier, but it also over eight
hundred horsepower.
Speaker 2 (33:22):
To your point, I thought it doesn't feel as fast
as the numbers suggest when I was driving it.
Speaker 1 (33:28):
Well, there there's a reason for that. It's pretty heavy.
It weighs over forty five hundred pounds.
Speaker 2 (33:32):
Well, but it feels incredibly luxurious. I mean not like complicated.
And the interior I thought was pretty simple, but I
would say elegant. But it feels like a super luxury vehicle.
Speaker 1 (33:46):
Yes, absolutely completely. It's the it's the total package. To me,
it's it is the total package, and there is a
part of me that is a First of all, it
drives fabulous. This is the quickest Mercedes currently that you
can buy right now. It's the numbers, like we say,
(34:07):
speak for themselves. It really handles incredibly. It feels very
different to drive than a nine to eleven. First of all,
the proportions are different. The nose, like we said before,
is longer, it's more stretched out, it feels bigger, it
feels wider, it feels bulkier. So it's not an exact
comparison driving wise, but I think it is a really
(34:29):
interesting option that somebody should test drive before just diving
into getting a nine to eleven, because it's different. It's
it is different, and it's a fabulous car.
Speaker 2 (34:38):
Well, the motors in the front, for one thing, like
every other car in the world. The coolest thing about
the nine to eleven is that the motor is behind you,
so all of a sudden you're in like Lamborghini Ferrari
territory without spending that much money. And there's you know
(34:59):
what else, what other rear engine what other mid or
rear engine car is there? I guess you could say, well,
Corvette obviously, and then you've got like, you know, Boxers
and stuff. But this, like every other normal car, has
an engine in the front, which is why I think
it doesn't feel anything like a nine to eleven to
begin with. But I think it's the greatest thing you
(35:21):
can get from Mercedes. I mean, it's the most special.
Speaker 1 (35:24):
Did you ever drive the GTR the AMGGTR back in
like twenty seventeen, twenty eighteen.
Speaker 2 (35:32):
No, I never got to, but I did. You must
over them and drool over them as they were driving.
I think the AMGT was a better looking car in
that generation.
Speaker 1 (35:43):
I agree. I think that the GTR. And I remember
I actually pulled this up because I loved it so much.
In twenty seventeen, I said that the best car I
drove that entire year, the one that I want, that
I will not forget, is the GTR, the AMG GTR
from that specific year. It looks perfect. It's so cool,
(36:06):
it looks so cool. I don't think the new one
looks quite as good. The proportions slightly different.
Speaker 2 (36:12):
Yeah, well, the new one, their proportions make a lot
more sense. And this is what I was saying at
the top, Like the amggt's and I would take, by
the way, a gt R, a GTS, a GtC, I
don't care. Yeah, those when they pulled up, you were like,
that doesn't look right at first, because the nose is
too long in proportion to the rest of the car,
and it's that jarring kind of wakes you up and
(36:34):
you notice it and then you're like, damn, that looks awesome. Yeah,
I don't think that. I think this one looks too
too normal in comparison to that. But obviously it's gonna
be a newer, faster, it's going to hold the road better,
and maybe it won't be as special as the amggt's,
(36:56):
and they themselves weren't as special as the sls. But
I just think it's a it's a home run. I mean,
it's a slamm dock. This thing is just incredible.
Speaker 1 (37:05):
I agree. We should also say miles per gallon combined
is almost thirty miles per gallen, which for a car
with eight hundred horsepower is pretty incredible. And again, for me,
the mileage thing is more about I don't want to
have to break up my day to stop for gas.
And maybe I'm going to hell for this, but I
(37:27):
don't care as much about like miles per gallon. I
care about having to stop at the gas station less,
just the truth.
Speaker 2 (37:35):
Look, you're going to be able to hit these high
numbers with hybrids. But this is another reason I think
hybrids are are the way forward. Yeah, the packaging maybe
isn't right on all of them, but this is why
I like, for example, the Corvette E Ray. You still
have the power, the ferociousness, the brutality of the big
(37:55):
V eight behind you, but you have an extra push
or pull in the case of the Corvette, because it's
on the front wheels of the battery, and it just
makes it so much quicker. It makes it so much grippier.
Obviously it makes it heavier and more complex, which is
also which a lot of people could see as a problem,
and I'm sure at some point will become a problem.
But yeah, I just think it's a fantastic car. By
(38:17):
the way, when I go on the configurator to build this,
to build my own version of a two hundred and
fifty thousand dollars car, there are i mean like one
hundred different color choices, and I'm not exaggerating. And I
used to wonder, like, why would someone pay an extra
you know, when the AMGGT came out, they offered it
(38:39):
an exclusive Sunbeam yellow for an extra ten thousand dollars,
and I thought, who would pick that? Like, first of all,
a yellow car is always a mistake, but also paying
an extra ten thousand dollars. I thought it was silly
and why would they charge you for that? But now
that I'm looking at old cars and everyone, for some
reason or the most people have for some reason chosen
(39:00):
black or white trs to colors that I don't want.
And then I'm looking at a respray. I realized that
a total paint job done well is going to cost
twenty five thousand dollars. So then ten thousand for the
sunbeam yellow doesn't seem too much to me if it
were a different color than yellow. So now that Mercedes
(39:21):
is offering like one hundred different sort of PTS style colors,
and it's completely worth it, I think, because you separate
your vehicle from every other one on the street. And
it gets back to your point about what real luxury is.
Speaker 1 (39:36):
Completely this desert sand color. I know a lot of
people hate it, including you, Matt, for reference sixty five
hundred dollars extra to get it painted like that. Here's
one thing on the topic of color that I have
never understood. Any time I'm talking to car guys and
I do mean guys, and I say what car do
(39:59):
you have? And they nobody says the color of the
car until I ask what color is it? Why is that?
Speaker 2 (40:08):
That's a good point. Actually, I was just uh, I
was just listening to Doug DeMuro talking about his new
his new nine nine three turbo that he got and
the other two guys on his podcast. Their first question
was what color? It is everyone's first question whenever you
say you have a new question.
Speaker 1 (40:27):
But why don't people just say it like, oh, it's
a red whatever?
Speaker 2 (40:33):
Yeah I don't. It's a good point. Like if I
were Doug, I would have said, yeah, I got an
Arena red nine nine three turbo, right, you know, but yeah,
you're right, But it is the first question. And why.
What struck me as funny is he's talking to these
two like total car guys, dudes who know like every
vehicle ever made and each trim level and you know,
(40:56):
the different specs on different generations, and they know so
much about the car, the vehicle, the engine, the handling,
you know, and yet their first question is what color.
It seems so elementary, right, it seems so basic.
Speaker 1 (41:11):
Well, colors are emotional, you know, the colors are. It
makes me feel like a kid. If I see a
cool color, I feel like I did when I was
a little girl. You get excited, you.
Speaker 2 (41:22):
Know, And this is this is why I think it's
worth it to spend the extra ten grand. I mean,
if you're buying this car, it's already a two hundred
thousand dollars car to start with, so you might as
well sink ten grand.
Speaker 1 (41:34):
Another question for you on this car. Would you pay
an extra twenty one hundred dollars for a panorama roof
on this car?
Speaker 2 (41:44):
So personally I would, But there's so many people out
there who are opposed to sunroofs and panorama panorama roofs
because they're heavier. I don't know if that's the case
with this I don't know if that's the case with
this current technology. But I as a very tall person
in a sports car, and you had the same experience
(42:06):
when I pull up to a stoplight. If I'm the
first car at the intersection, if there's a hard top
and there's no panoranama roof, or if there's a sunroof
and it's closed, I have to lean forward over my
steering wheel and look up a lot of times to
see when the light's going to turn green. Right. This
is an experience I had in my old nine to eleven.
(42:28):
So with my nine to eleven, I had the glass
roof so I could lean back and look up through
the roof at this at the stoplight for its turn
green and it was falling. For Yes, that's why I
need to be able to see through the roof essentially,
And to me, it's worth like I was just configuring
a Kara tee on the Porsche website, and you can
(42:52):
option the carbon fiber roof, right it saves forty pounds
forty pounds. Do I care about forty pounds. I've lost
twenty nine pounds in the last three months, so I'm
already saving almost all of that. Thank you very much
doing the work it for yourself exactly. So you know
a lot of people I think are going to choose
(43:13):
the carbon fiber roof even though they weigh two hundred
and fifty pounds and they should just go on to
die instead.
Speaker 1 (43:19):
Well, I agree. This car did have a panorama roof,
and it had gobs of headspace gobs, gobs cobs like
I could have worn my tallest hat and been and
still had multiple inches ahead of over my head. So
you're whenever you get in this one, Matt, You're gonna
love it because it's really really big in the cabin.
And the other thing I liked about this panorama roof
(43:41):
is the shade for it was just like a normal handle.
You just moved it with your hand. There was no button,
there was no switch to hold down while the shade
slowly gets pulled forward automatically. It was literally just you
move the shade with your hand like a normal thing,
which was so much better. And it was another case
(44:04):
of probably lighter, one less thing to break, and actually
quicker and simpler than trying to put technology up there
to hold a button down to close and open this sunshade.
Speaker 2 (44:16):
Brilliant. I love things that are manual me too, As
you know. It was great.
Speaker 1 (44:22):
So yeah, you are really the.
Speaker 2 (44:24):
Fewer things to break the better, is what I'm is
what I've been thinking about a lot a lot lately.
Speaker 1 (44:30):
Agree.
Speaker 2 (44:31):
All right, Well, I would guess that's all we have
time for this week, Is that right?
Speaker 1 (44:36):
I want to say thank you to everybody who writes
into us. We really appreciate the dialogue. Remember to follow
and subscribe to Hot Pursuit on Apple, Spotify, and anywhere
else you listen. You can also send us your comments
by emailing us at hot Pursuit at Bloomberg dot net.
Speaker 2 (44:55):
Yeah, and we've gotten some pretty awesome emails, I should
say lately. Yes, you know that one of my favorite
podcasts like and probably my most watched YouTube channel is
TfL right The Fast Lane Trucks, And I got an
email from Roman who used to who was a guest
on our show at one point, So I thank him
(45:15):
for listening, and I also want to tell everybody who's listened,
thank you for putting up with these little clicks and pops.
Speaker 1 (45:23):
Lead here, I can't hear it at all. Matt, you're
loud and clear for me.
Speaker 2 (45:27):
Good good, good good, all right, Well, keep writing into
us at Hot Pursuit at Bloomberg dot net and tune
back in next week, same time, same place. I'm Matt Miller.
We'll see you again next week
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Hannah Elliott
Matt Miller
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If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
My Favorite Murder is a true crime comedy podcast hosted by Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark. Each week, Karen and Georgia share compelling true crimes and hometown stories from friends and listeners. Since MFM launched in January of 2016, Karen and Georgia have shared their lifelong interest in true crime and have covered stories of infamous serial killers like the Night Stalker, mysterious cold cases, captivating cults, incredible survivor stories and important events from history like the Tulsa race massacre of 1921. My Favorite Murder is part of the Exactly Right podcast network that provides a platform for bold, creative voices to bring to life provocative, entertaining and relatable stories for audiences everywhere. The Exactly Right roster of podcasts covers a variety of topics including historic true crime, comedic interviews and news, science, pop culture and more. Podcasts on the network include Buried Bones with Kate Winkler Dawson and Paul Holes, That's Messed Up: An SVU Podcast, This Podcast Will Kill You, Bananas and more.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com