May 12, 2025 • 7 mins
Skybridge Capital Founder & Managing Partner Anthony Scaramucci speaks on the booming business of Bitcoin ETFs. He speaks with Bloomberg's Katie Greifeld, Scarlet Fu and Eric Balchunas
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news joining.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
Us now to talk about this ETF. I'm thrilled to
say we have Anthony Scaramucci. He is the founder of
Skybridge Capital, joining us on set. Great to see you
in person.
Speaker 3 (00:16):
I mean it's Eric.
Speaker 4 (00:17):
I mean that I was almost as good as my
mother writing the thing.
Speaker 3 (00:20):
I mean that was really good.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
He does his homework and we have a lot of
questions for you about the crypto industry at large, but
we are going to start with this product because, as
Eric described it, this is sort of a thematic crypto
ETF that tracks equities. And you do have a lot
of these sort of products out there that say that
they track the digital asset ecosystem and that are also
actively managed. So how do you differentiate this product from
(00:44):
the rest of the field.
Speaker 4 (00:46):
Well, first all, thank you guys for having me and
I appreciate being here. I would just say to you
that this was born from a non bitcoin exchange traded
fund world.
Speaker 3 (00:55):
So I remember this is four years ago.
Speaker 4 (00:57):
I'm trying to get our clients access to something that
correlate with bitcoin. I would make the case that there
are still clients out there, particularly at these wirehouses that
are having a hard time getting approval on bitcoin still
to this day. And so the case for this is
this is a good surrogate. If you want to be
in bitcoin, certainly go out and buy bitcoin. If you
can buy the bitcoin shares, whether it's the Fidelity ones
(01:20):
or Galaxy Invesco or the black Rock one certainly would
recommend that. But if you can't do that, and you
want some exposure to the ecosystem, and you want some
exposure to great companies inside the ecosystem, I think we
have the best story to tell and arguably the best performance,
if you don't mind me saying that, Just based on
the metrics that Bloomberg is showing and looking at.
Speaker 5 (01:40):
The holdings, you have two US companies as the biggest
holdings of micro Strategy and coin Base. But then you've
got Galaxy Digital, which is listening in Toronto, and Metaplanet,
which trades in Japan, so you now have currency exposure
as well.
Speaker 4 (01:52):
Why go this route, Well, because again the Metaplanet is
sort of a pure play in bitcoin, and so even
though we have modestncy explosure, we like that. I guess
if you look at that list, I think the thing
that our investment managers are saying, it's Skybridge, what's going
to get us the most correlation to bitcoin without taking
on too much exogenous risk. So the currency and the
(02:14):
sizing of that is not overly consequential to us as
it release to Galaxy. I think, you know this, Galaxy
is about to list on the NASDAC and so I
think that'll be helpful there. But we're big fans of
Mike Novograt's work with Mike at Goldman thirty years ago
and like that company overall. So the brokerage component of
(02:35):
this I think does help Coinbase and Galaxy or companies
that we think are highway systems in the world of
digital assets. So it's not just a pure play on
the assets themselves. You're getting a little pickup on the infrastructure.
Speaker 1 (02:49):
Let's talk a little bit about like the future and
where Bitcoin's going. I was on stage with Robbie Michnick
in Dubai. He said when the decoupling happened that day
where bitcoin went up and the stocks went down, there was.
Speaker 3 (02:59):
A couple like that was major.
Speaker 1 (03:01):
He got calls from some big fish and they were like,
finally it's acting like gold. How important is bitcoin to
behave a little better and not be a high beta
stock for it to really take go to the next
level with corporations, governments, and institutions.
Speaker 3 (03:17):
Well, I think that's it. Eric.
Speaker 4 (03:19):
Ultimately, what we see is the evolution of bitcoin from
being sort of a tech asset tied to the mag
seven or tied to the Nasdaq, to something that's more akin.
Speaker 3 (03:29):
To digital gold.
Speaker 4 (03:30):
And as that starts to happen, and I think that
will happen as wallets expand you know, let's say there's
roughly three hundred million or so wallets or bitcoin right now.
Imagine a world where there's a billion wallets, billion holders.
Speaker 3 (03:42):
The volatility should dampen.
Speaker 4 (03:44):
That happened in Microsoft, that happened in things like Google
over a twenty year period of time, and so you
could see a scenario where more wallets, lots of institutions
in the mix, long term holders, dampening volatility, and then
you have this positive flywheel where the volatility is dampened
by long term holders who are owning it in size,
(04:05):
and so therefore that reinforces.
Speaker 3 (04:07):
The idea that other long term holders should come in.
Speaker 4 (04:10):
I guess the big thing you have to ask yourself
is bitcoin an investment or is it an asset class.
If it's an investment, then one to three trillion dollars,
that sort of makes sense.
Speaker 3 (04:19):
That's akin to a.
Speaker 4 (04:21):
Mag seven market capitalization. But if it's an asset class,
then it should trade too closer to where gold is,
and I think goals I don't know twenty two to
twenty three trillion dollars right now.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
I do want to bring in politics and regulation to
this conversation because there's stable coin legislation working its way
through Congress right now, and I want to hear your
thoughts on why that potentially is important and whether or
not that should include restrictions on the Trump family and
the administration broadly.
Speaker 4 (04:51):
Well, I don't know if you can restrict one family,
and so I don't know what the laws are even
if that's allowable in the constant. But I just I
think what we have to do is we've got to
get stable coined legislation through because it'll help the digital
assets space, it'll help the United States maintain its mantle
of financial leadership financial services leadership. But I think the
(05:14):
other thing these stable coins do it just reminder to people,
whether it's circle or tether, they own a ton of
US treasuries. I think tether now owns more US treasuries
than Germany and Japan, and I think we want to
have this legislation provide great clarity regulatory specificity, so that.
Speaker 3 (05:32):
We've got a lot of players in the mix.
Speaker 4 (05:34):
Eventually banks can get into the mix, and eventually I
could hold my bitcoin at a bank. As it relates
to the Trump family, I guess what I would say.
My message to the Trump family would be, you know,
be transparent.
Speaker 3 (05:47):
You know, if you're not doing anything wrong.
Speaker 4 (05:49):
I'll accept on faith that you're not doing anything wrong,
but be transparent because we're in a partisan, tribal environment
and you've got to let people know exactly what you're doing.
Otherwise people are going to assume the worst.
Speaker 5 (06:00):
A lot of people, some in the industry, who are
concerned that the First family's involvement in crypto is a
way to just make money. What is your level of
confidence that this administration, both at the executive and regulatory level,
is serious about supporting the build out of the US
crypto industry.
Speaker 3 (06:15):
Well, I think it's very serious.
Speaker 4 (06:16):
I think this is the thing that a lot of
the what we call the crypto bros.
Speaker 3 (06:20):
If you will.
Speaker 4 (06:21):
There's probably women in there, but let's call them crypto bros.
I think they moved into fair Shake and they gave
a lot of money to Republicans or some Democrats that
are supportive, and I think in the beginning I would
say it was skeptical and probably politically driven. But I
think as people learn the story, they recognize that this
is going to be a large component of the future
(06:43):
of finance, and so I do think it's serious today.
Was it serious in July of last year when they
spoke at the Bitcoin conference? Probably not. It was probably political,
But I think it's serious today.
Speaker 1 (06:53):
Okay, forty five seconds. You obviously are into bitcoin and
of the all coins excite you. We're going to see
ets for XRP, salona Ether.
Speaker 3 (07:00):
People can have a lot of choice. What do you
think about it?
Speaker 4 (07:03):
Well, I would I would I would focus on Solana
for right now because you have an ETF out there.
Speaker 3 (07:08):
It's soul Q so O l Q.
Speaker 4 (07:11):
Those guys at three IQ were the first to launch
a bitcoin ETF in North America, the first Canadian ETF.
Speaker 3 (07:18):
We own a lot of Solana.
Speaker 4 (07:19):
Just full disclosure, uh, but and we are and again
full disclosure. We at Skybridge are investors in sol Q
because we like that exposure. We also like the staking
component to Solana, which you think is very good.
Speaker 3 (07:32):
So it's just a great way to get in there.
Those other ones are going to.
Speaker 4 (07:35):
Be good Avalanche, Polka Dot, et cetera, but Solana.
Speaker 2 (07:38):
All right, gotta leave it there. Really appreciate you taking
the time. That is Anthony's Cherimuci of Skybridge cap Well.
You can read about this drill down plus the latest
in the ETF industry when you subscribe to my weekly
etf IQ newsletter. But that does it for us. This
is Bloomberg
Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news joining.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
Us now to talk about this ETF. I'm thrilled to
say we have Anthony Scaramucci. He is the founder of
Skybridge Capital, joining us on set. Great to see you
in person.
Speaker 3 (00:16):
I mean it's Eric.
Speaker 4 (00:17):
I mean that I was almost as good as my
mother writing the thing.
Speaker 3 (00:20):
I mean that was really good.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
He does his homework and we have a lot of
questions for you about the crypto industry at large, but
we are going to start with this product because, as
Eric described it, this is sort of a thematic crypto
ETF that tracks equities. And you do have a lot
of these sort of products out there that say that
they track the digital asset ecosystem and that are also
actively managed. So how do you differentiate this product from
(00:44):
the rest of the field.
Speaker 4 (00:46):
Well, first all, thank you guys for having me and
I appreciate being here. I would just say to you
that this was born from a non bitcoin exchange traded
fund world.
Speaker 3 (00:55):
So I remember this is four years ago.
Speaker 4 (00:57):
I'm trying to get our clients access to something that
correlate with bitcoin. I would make the case that there
are still clients out there, particularly at these wirehouses that
are having a hard time getting approval on bitcoin still
to this day. And so the case for this is
this is a good surrogate. If you want to be
in bitcoin, certainly go out and buy bitcoin. If you
can buy the bitcoin shares, whether it's the Fidelity ones
(01:20):
or Galaxy Invesco or the black Rock one certainly would
recommend that. But if you can't do that, and you
want some exposure to the ecosystem, and you want some
exposure to great companies inside the ecosystem, I think we
have the best story to tell and arguably the best performance,
if you don't mind me saying that, Just based on
the metrics that Bloomberg is showing and looking at.
Speaker 5 (01:40):
The holdings, you have two US companies as the biggest
holdings of micro Strategy and coin Base. But then you've
got Galaxy Digital, which is listening in Toronto, and Metaplanet,
which trades in Japan, so you now have currency exposure
as well.
Speaker 4 (01:52):
Why go this route, Well, because again the Metaplanet is
sort of a pure play in bitcoin, and so even
though we have modestncy explosure, we like that. I guess
if you look at that list, I think the thing
that our investment managers are saying, it's Skybridge, what's going
to get us the most correlation to bitcoin without taking
on too much exogenous risk. So the currency and the
(02:14):
sizing of that is not overly consequential to us as
it release to Galaxy. I think, you know this, Galaxy
is about to list on the NASDAC and so I
think that'll be helpful there. But we're big fans of
Mike Novograt's work with Mike at Goldman thirty years ago
and like that company overall. So the brokerage component of
(02:35):
this I think does help Coinbase and Galaxy or companies
that we think are highway systems in the world of
digital assets. So it's not just a pure play on
the assets themselves. You're getting a little pickup on the infrastructure.
Speaker 1 (02:49):
Let's talk a little bit about like the future and
where Bitcoin's going. I was on stage with Robbie Michnick
in Dubai. He said when the decoupling happened that day
where bitcoin went up and the stocks went down, there was.
Speaker 3 (02:59):
A couple like that was major.
Speaker 1 (03:01):
He got calls from some big fish and they were like,
finally it's acting like gold. How important is bitcoin to
behave a little better and not be a high beta
stock for it to really take go to the next
level with corporations, governments, and institutions.
Speaker 3 (03:17):
Well, I think that's it. Eric.
Speaker 4 (03:19):
Ultimately, what we see is the evolution of bitcoin from
being sort of a tech asset tied to the mag
seven or tied to the Nasdaq, to something that's more akin.
Speaker 3 (03:29):
To digital gold.
Speaker 4 (03:30):
And as that starts to happen, and I think that
will happen as wallets expand you know, let's say there's
roughly three hundred million or so wallets or bitcoin right now.
Imagine a world where there's a billion wallets, billion holders.
Speaker 3 (03:42):
The volatility should dampen.
Speaker 4 (03:44):
That happened in Microsoft, that happened in things like Google
over a twenty year period of time, and so you
could see a scenario where more wallets, lots of institutions
in the mix, long term holders, dampening volatility, and then
you have this positive flywheel where the volatility is dampened
by long term holders who are owning it in size,
(04:05):
and so therefore that reinforces.
Speaker 3 (04:07):
The idea that other long term holders should come in.
Speaker 4 (04:10):
I guess the big thing you have to ask yourself
is bitcoin an investment or is it an asset class.
If it's an investment, then one to three trillion dollars,
that sort of makes sense.
Speaker 3 (04:19):
That's akin to a.
Speaker 4 (04:21):
Mag seven market capitalization. But if it's an asset class,
then it should trade too closer to where gold is,
and I think goals I don't know twenty two to
twenty three trillion dollars right now.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
I do want to bring in politics and regulation to
this conversation because there's stable coin legislation working its way
through Congress right now, and I want to hear your
thoughts on why that potentially is important and whether or
not that should include restrictions on the Trump family and
the administration broadly.
Speaker 4 (04:51):
Well, I don't know if you can restrict one family,
and so I don't know what the laws are even
if that's allowable in the constant. But I just I
think what we have to do is we've got to
get stable coined legislation through because it'll help the digital
assets space, it'll help the United States maintain its mantle
of financial leadership financial services leadership. But I think the
(05:14):
other thing these stable coins do it just reminder to people,
whether it's circle or tether, they own a ton of
US treasuries. I think tether now owns more US treasuries
than Germany and Japan, and I think we want to
have this legislation provide great clarity regulatory specificity, so that.
Speaker 3 (05:32):
We've got a lot of players in the mix.
Speaker 4 (05:34):
Eventually banks can get into the mix, and eventually I
could hold my bitcoin at a bank. As it relates
to the Trump family, I guess what I would say.
My message to the Trump family would be, you know,
be transparent.
Speaker 3 (05:47):
You know, if you're not doing anything wrong.
Speaker 4 (05:49):
I'll accept on faith that you're not doing anything wrong,
but be transparent because we're in a partisan, tribal environment
and you've got to let people know exactly what you're doing.
Otherwise people are going to assume the worst.
Speaker 5 (06:00):
A lot of people, some in the industry, who are
concerned that the First family's involvement in crypto is a
way to just make money. What is your level of
confidence that this administration, both at the executive and regulatory level,
is serious about supporting the build out of the US
crypto industry.
Speaker 3 (06:15):
Well, I think it's very serious.
Speaker 4 (06:16):
I think this is the thing that a lot of
the what we call the crypto bros.
Speaker 3 (06:20):
If you will.
Speaker 4 (06:21):
There's probably women in there, but let's call them crypto bros.
I think they moved into fair Shake and they gave
a lot of money to Republicans or some Democrats that
are supportive, and I think in the beginning I would
say it was skeptical and probably politically driven. But I
think as people learn the story, they recognize that this
is going to be a large component of the future
(06:43):
of finance, and so I do think it's serious today.
Was it serious in July of last year when they
spoke at the Bitcoin conference? Probably not. It was probably political,
But I think it's serious today.
Speaker 1 (06:53):
Okay, forty five seconds. You obviously are into bitcoin and
of the all coins excite you. We're going to see
ets for XRP, salona Ether.
Speaker 3 (07:00):
People can have a lot of choice. What do you
think about it?
Speaker 4 (07:03):
Well, I would I would I would focus on Solana
for right now because you have an ETF out there.
Speaker 3 (07:08):
It's soul Q so O l Q.
Speaker 4 (07:11):
Those guys at three IQ were the first to launch
a bitcoin ETF in North America, the first Canadian ETF.
Speaker 3 (07:18):
We own a lot of Solana.
Speaker 4 (07:19):
Just full disclosure, uh, but and we are and again
full disclosure. We at Skybridge are investors in sol Q
because we like that exposure. We also like the staking
component to Solana, which you think is very good.
Speaker 3 (07:32):
So it's just a great way to get in there.
Those other ones are going to.
Speaker 4 (07:35):
Be good Avalanche, Polka Dot, et cetera, but Solana.
Speaker 2 (07:38):
All right, gotta leave it there. Really appreciate you taking
the time. That is Anthony's Cherimuci of Skybridge cap Well.
You can read about this drill down plus the latest
in the ETF industry when you subscribe to my weekly
etf IQ newsletter. But that does it for us. This
is Bloomberg
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