December 3, 2025 • 8 mins
The European Union has reached a deal to phase out Russian gas faster than originally planned — a move aimed at finally severing ties between the bloc and its once-primary energy supplier. The head of the International Energy Agency, Fatih Birol, joined Stephen Carroll on Bloomberg Radio in Brussels to discuss the deal, as well as the broader issue of energy security in the region
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. Let's bring you more
now though, on that EU deal to phase out Russian gas.
The agreement reached in the early hours of this morning.
We'll see you're a bend purchases of LNG and pipeline
gas by September twenty twenty seven. Joining us in our
Brussels studio to discuss the head of the International Energy Agency,
Patti Berrel, Good morning, Great to see you in the studio.
(00:25):
This has been a long road for the European Union.
The war is three and a half years longer. Now,
how significant is this moment? Is this deal?
Speaker 2 (00:33):
I think? I think it is a historical deal for
Europe because Russia has been the number one energy supplier
of Europe over half a century since nineteen seventies, and
natural gas was the most important fuel here. Until recently,
(00:56):
about half of the natural gas consumption in Europe came
from Russia. So after the Russia's invasion of Ukraine and
Russia using nature gas as a weapon, Europe took this
decision European countries. It is historical and online and of
course I congrege you to European countries. But on the
(01:17):
other hand, the market context we are in is also
helping Europe creating a room of maneuver, such as huge
amount of LNG looking for nature gas coming to markets
starting from twenty twenty six through two thirty, so there'll
be a lot of alternatives to Russian gas for European countries.
Speaker 1 (01:40):
Is there a risk that the European countries simply replicates
the situation they had of an over alliance on a
single supplier by turning to other countries. You know, we
know that the United States has also talked about wanting
Europe to buy a lot more LANG from them.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
In fact, when we look at the history, the story
with the Russian gas dependencies started in nineteen seventies when
Europe wanted to diversify from Middle East oil went to
another supplier to Russia. And I very much hope that
Europe now learned this lesson that doesn't repeat the same
(02:17):
mistake and create diversification for its energy imports. For me,
the number one golden rule of energy securities diversify as
much as possible. There are a lot of countries providing
gas to the markets. Markets will turn from years and
years being a market of sellers to the markets of buyers,
(02:40):
so it's abect the Europeans and stronger, and of course
US is a very important ally. Europe will continue to
import US LNG, but there will be also other opportunities
for europe queity.
Speaker 1 (02:53):
Russian supplies go now then with this deal to phase
out the European purchasers.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
This is a key question for Russians and they first
of all, they will lose a lot of money, loss
of revenues. And it is not easy for gas, unlike oil,
to go from one destination to another, because the big
chunk of the Russian gas came to Europe through pipeline
which will built years and years. And now Russia is
(03:22):
trying to increase exports to China, which is in fact
difficult undertaking for several reasons.
Speaker 1 (03:31):
The U Energy Commissioner also saying this morning that a
proposal to ban imports of all Russian oil is going
to be table at the beginning of next year as well.
They're meant to have that on by the end of
twenty twenty seven too. How important would that be in
this move away from Russian supplies.
Speaker 2 (03:47):
I think when we see the Russian energy imports back
of it, as we discussed as natural gas, there is oil,
and there is also uranium supply, nuclear supplass coming from Russia.
I think to bend oil from Russia is also very
timely from a political perspective. But in addition to that,
there is a huge amount of oil in the market.
(04:08):
There's a surplus of oil oil production, so it wouldn't
have a major impact nd the oil prices if it
is done in a gradual and in a careful way,
so it wouldn't lead the price spikes as many of
us might be scared of. So I think it will
be timely. If Europe goes that way, it will in
turn have Europe to radius Russian energy export revenues.
Speaker 1 (04:34):
I'm wondering as well, because of course all of this
is happening because of the ongoing war in Ukraine. How
are you viewing the risks for Ukraine's energy system in
this winter as Russia has been continuing attacks on their
energy infrastructure, as Ukraine has on Russian energy infrastructure.
Speaker 2 (04:49):
We have been following the Ukraine energistration, especially when it
comes to winter, and I would say that this is
perhaps the most difficult winter of European battle Ukraine energy
sector because it is all the very very vulnerable and
we have seen the especially the electricity infrastructure and heating
(05:13):
infrastructures under huge strain, and this would be the most
challenging winter Ukraine has faced since the start of the wall.
Speaker 1 (05:22):
Do you see the situation getting much worse as the ructures.
Speaker 2 (05:25):
Exactly, it can't get much worse than we have seen
in the last three years. But of course Ukraine allies
are ready hopefully to support Ukraine, especially in terms of
the electricity infrastructure.
Speaker 1 (05:39):
From the EU point of view, this was framed by
the EU commissioned President ar Slavander line as part of
the ramp up of renewable energy. Surprise in Europe too.
I'm wondering, given the market dynamics that you've described, there's
low prices for gas as well, is this going to
take I suppose some of the inputus out of the
EU to further that shift into renewables.
Speaker 2 (05:59):
It somewhat, but I think the denewments are growing so
strongly in Europe. Just in the last three years after
the after the we have seen the major energy crisis
in Europe, renewables increase forty person. We have never seen
any country, including Europe the European region, such a big increase,
(06:21):
plus many European countries change their position. As I has
suggested on nuclear power, there's a comeback of nuclear and
with the cheaper nature gas, Europe will find a better mix,
much more balanced mixed now good for the energy security
and with the lower nature gas process good for the
(06:42):
competitieness of Europe.
Speaker 1 (06:43):
But of course there's questions too about the grade adapting
to this too. Of course, we have the blackout in Spain,
a very dramatic moment for European energy supplies. How much
of a risk are issues like that as the energy
mix continues to change.
Speaker 2 (06:55):
I think the electricy security discs are there, and the
nerve center of all the electricity discussions here is the greats.
We don't have enough smart and modern greeds. The issue
has been too much concentrated and building power plants and
(07:16):
we are okay with that, but we don't have enough
greeds to bring these electricity in the power plans to
the household, to the factories. It is the next big
job for European Commission.
Speaker 1 (07:27):
Do we need to be concerned about more black eyes
like what we saw in Spain?
Speaker 2 (07:30):
Yes, we should, especially when the demand goes up strongly
which means extreme weather events very cold or very hot summer.
This may create a big strengths and the existing greeds.
So the first job the next chapter for European Commission
should be strengthening building new grets in order to address
(07:53):
these electricity security challenges.
Speaker 1 (07:55):
Okay, Passy Perrel they had at the International Energy Agency.
Thank you very much for joining us our Brussels studio
this morning.
Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. Let's bring you more
now though, on that EU deal to phase out Russian gas.
The agreement reached in the early hours of this morning.
We'll see you're a bend purchases of LNG and pipeline
gas by September twenty twenty seven. Joining us in our
Brussels studio to discuss the head of the International Energy Agency,
Patti Berrel, Good morning, Great to see you in the studio.
(00:25):
This has been a long road for the European Union.
The war is three and a half years longer. Now,
how significant is this moment? Is this deal?
Speaker 2 (00:33):
I think? I think it is a historical deal for
Europe because Russia has been the number one energy supplier
of Europe over half a century since nineteen seventies, and
natural gas was the most important fuel here. Until recently,
(00:56):
about half of the natural gas consumption in Europe came
from Russia. So after the Russia's invasion of Ukraine and
Russia using nature gas as a weapon, Europe took this
decision European countries. It is historical and online and of
course I congrege you to European countries. But on the
(01:17):
other hand, the market context we are in is also
helping Europe creating a room of maneuver, such as huge
amount of LNG looking for nature gas coming to markets
starting from twenty twenty six through two thirty, so there'll
be a lot of alternatives to Russian gas for European countries.
Speaker 1 (01:40):
Is there a risk that the European countries simply replicates
the situation they had of an over alliance on a
single supplier by turning to other countries. You know, we
know that the United States has also talked about wanting
Europe to buy a lot more LANG from them.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
In fact, when we look at the history, the story
with the Russian gas dependencies started in nineteen seventies when
Europe wanted to diversify from Middle East oil went to
another supplier to Russia. And I very much hope that
Europe now learned this lesson that doesn't repeat the same
(02:17):
mistake and create diversification for its energy imports. For me,
the number one golden rule of energy securities diversify as
much as possible. There are a lot of countries providing
gas to the markets. Markets will turn from years and
years being a market of sellers to the markets of buyers,
(02:40):
so it's abect the Europeans and stronger, and of course
US is a very important ally. Europe will continue to
import US LNG, but there will be also other opportunities
for europe queity.
Speaker 1 (02:53):
Russian supplies go now then with this deal to phase
out the European purchasers.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
This is a key question for Russians and they first
of all, they will lose a lot of money, loss
of revenues. And it is not easy for gas, unlike oil,
to go from one destination to another, because the big
chunk of the Russian gas came to Europe through pipeline
which will built years and years. And now Russia is
(03:22):
trying to increase exports to China, which is in fact
difficult undertaking for several reasons.
Speaker 1 (03:31):
The U Energy Commissioner also saying this morning that a
proposal to ban imports of all Russian oil is going
to be table at the beginning of next year as well.
They're meant to have that on by the end of
twenty twenty seven too. How important would that be in
this move away from Russian supplies.
Speaker 2 (03:47):
I think when we see the Russian energy imports back
of it, as we discussed as natural gas, there is oil,
and there is also uranium supply, nuclear supplass coming from Russia.
I think to bend oil from Russia is also very
timely from a political perspective. But in addition to that,
there is a huge amount of oil in the market.
(04:08):
There's a surplus of oil oil production, so it wouldn't
have a major impact nd the oil prices if it
is done in a gradual and in a careful way,
so it wouldn't lead the price spikes as many of
us might be scared of. So I think it will
be timely. If Europe goes that way, it will in
turn have Europe to radius Russian energy export revenues.
Speaker 1 (04:34):
I'm wondering as well, because of course all of this
is happening because of the ongoing war in Ukraine. How
are you viewing the risks for Ukraine's energy system in
this winter as Russia has been continuing attacks on their
energy infrastructure, as Ukraine has on Russian energy infrastructure.
Speaker 2 (04:49):
We have been following the Ukraine energistration, especially when it
comes to winter, and I would say that this is
perhaps the most difficult winter of European battle Ukraine energy
sector because it is all the very very vulnerable and
we have seen the especially the electricity infrastructure and heating
(05:13):
infrastructures under huge strain, and this would be the most
challenging winter Ukraine has faced since the start of the wall.
Speaker 1 (05:22):
Do you see the situation getting much worse as the ructures.
Speaker 2 (05:25):
Exactly, it can't get much worse than we have seen
in the last three years. But of course Ukraine allies
are ready hopefully to support Ukraine, especially in terms of
the electricity infrastructure.
Speaker 1 (05:39):
From the EU point of view, this was framed by
the EU commissioned President ar Slavander line as part of
the ramp up of renewable energy. Surprise in Europe too.
I'm wondering, given the market dynamics that you've described, there's
low prices for gas as well, is this going to
take I suppose some of the inputus out of the
EU to further that shift into renewables.
Speaker 2 (05:59):
It somewhat, but I think the denewments are growing so
strongly in Europe. Just in the last three years after
the after the we have seen the major energy crisis
in Europe, renewables increase forty person. We have never seen
any country, including Europe the European region, such a big increase,
(06:21):
plus many European countries change their position. As I has
suggested on nuclear power, there's a comeback of nuclear and
with the cheaper nature gas, Europe will find a better mix,
much more balanced mixed now good for the energy security
and with the lower nature gas process good for the
(06:42):
competitieness of Europe.
Speaker 1 (06:43):
But of course there's questions too about the grade adapting
to this too. Of course, we have the blackout in Spain,
a very dramatic moment for European energy supplies. How much
of a risk are issues like that as the energy
mix continues to change.
Speaker 2 (06:55):
I think the electricy security discs are there, and the
nerve center of all the electricity discussions here is the greats.
We don't have enough smart and modern greeds. The issue
has been too much concentrated and building power plants and
(07:16):
we are okay with that, but we don't have enough
greeds to bring these electricity in the power plans to
the household, to the factories. It is the next big
job for European Commission.
Speaker 1 (07:27):
Do we need to be concerned about more black eyes
like what we saw in Spain?
Speaker 2 (07:30):
Yes, we should, especially when the demand goes up strongly
which means extreme weather events very cold or very hot summer.
This may create a big strengths and the existing greeds.
So the first job the next chapter for European Commission
should be strengthening building new grets in order to address
(07:53):
these electricity security challenges.
Speaker 1 (07:55):
Okay, Passy Perrel they had at the International Energy Agency.
Thank you very much for joining us our Brussels studio
this morning.
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