May 5, 2025 • 8 mins
Mark Attanasio, Milwaukee Brewers owner and Crescent Capital Group co-founder, discusses the state of financial markets and his optimism that the PGA Tour and upstart rival LIV Golf will be able to strike a deal on a merger. He speaks with Sonali Basak and Romaine Bostick on the sidelines of The Milken Institute Global Conference in Beverly Hills, California.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio News.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Welcome back to Bloomberg Markets.
Speaker 3 (00:15):
I'm Shinali Basik here with Romaine Bostek live at the
Milkan Institute Global Conference. Now we're joined here by Mark
at Nacio. Of course you might know him as a brewers,
owner of the mill markety, but if you also know
him as the co founder of Press and Capital Group,
so steeped in credit markets.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
First, let's take a big step back.
Speaker 3 (00:35):
We're talking about how I think this might be the
busiest Milk and I have been in my career. It's
because you had the Treasury secretary year, you had Elon
Musk here overnight, and a lot of talks about a
valatle economic environment. How do you make sense of it
all to your investors and to your colleagues across the industry.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
Well, volatility, and thanks again for having me on. It's
always interesting to mark year to year how things are going.
Last year, all the questions were about how do you
deal with stability and what about lower interest rates? So
we don't have the challenges of stability anymore, you know,
I think one of the things you do in certain
(01:12):
times like this is you step back and you kind
of assess things because while there's a lot of you know,
day to day volatility which affects you in the public
markets as private investors in Preston's eighty percent private capital
and as you know, more loans than equity adjacent, we
can just see how it all plays out. So the
(01:34):
Secretary of the Treasury today was talking about this three
part plan right for lower taxes, less regulation, and addressing
trade and balances. And I was at a reception that
he spoke at yesterday. He spoke a little more off
the record, but I'll put it on the record now
about how that you know, maybe you could even address
that holistically and that it should all come together and work,
(01:58):
and you know it might now it Donald Reagan, I believe,
tried the same thing, and it's not so easy, especially
now because the world really is truly global and we're
sort of you know, uncoupling that a little bit. But
you know, maybe maybe this will all come together and
work out well for the country. Clearly things that swung
too far in the other direction, you know, economically in
(02:19):
terms of trade and balances, and it's getting addressed.
Speaker 4 (02:21):
Do you think that we're going to see a little
bit more stability out of Washington as we get.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
Deeper into the year, well, I think you've already started
to see that Washington pays attention to the markets, as
you had sharp moves, especially in the bond market that
raised some concerns. And you know, I think the Treasury
Secretary is quite measured, and I think he does have
the presidency here, which is which is a good thing.
And of course most of Wall Street is a fan
(02:47):
of Jerome Powell. So the fact that whether he's going
to stay on as affecture or not now for at
least for now is off the table. Is a constructive film.
Speaker 3 (02:55):
But one issue I'm saying Scott Bess intends to move
the markets, particularly the bond market. But you're seeing a
rise upward in the ten year, you know, over the
last three days and back, as we said here today
we're at four thirty five, so higher regardless of all
the veteroric that has been passed around over the last
couple of days. So what do you make of this
(03:17):
higher for longer scenarios in the bond market? And are
you worried that the bond market is starting to shake
off any relief that taxes might bring to the broader
physical story of the United States.
Speaker 2 (03:30):
Well Son all, a higher for longer has been somewhat
the theme for a long time now, and again the
bond market hyperventilates over twenty basis point moves. Wasn't that
long ago that we were worried that higher for longer
meant hundreds of basis point moves. I went to a
private dinner Jamie Diamond had and that the concern was
that a seven percent, you know, reference rate, that we
(03:54):
have a lot of default. So we're nowhere near that.
And all of this is very constructive for private lenders
because it sets a high floor for us to earn
a spread over. And I talked about this last year.
So our investors enjoy having an embedded portfolio that continues
to have high yeels since most of it is floating rate.
Speaker 3 (04:14):
So you mind, let's switch gears for a second here,
because in addition to your world as an investor in
thread of markets, you are bury from it. A sports investor,
you got in a lot earlier than a lot of
you're a private investment bibles have gotten in. We were
talking about the Brewers. I'm actually curious now that we're
talking about some of the off the record conversations about
how you think that the live golf situation is going.
Speaker 2 (04:37):
To play out, so that that would count as a
high inside fast fold with me trying to hit. Look,
I've been constructive in this for a while, going back
to when you know John Henry. First of all, I
should say, who runs you know, the CEO of Famway
(04:58):
and they owned Liverpool and the Red Sox and the Penguins.
He did a brilliant job in structuring this and he
really focused on it. And so from my standpoint, which
was now a couple of years ago, I felt like
the best athletes want to compete against the best. They
always do. It's the reason Shoeyo Tani a number of
(05:18):
the Japanese players are coming to playing the major leagues
now because you know, you want to test yourself. And
so I always felt there was a reason for the
two sides to come together. I think that you know,
the prince in Saudi would like to see something work out,
although what they've done is quite impressive. And you know,
(05:42):
we now have a president who is an avid golfer
and absolutely wants to see this work. So you know,
you have a lot of folks who want to see
it work, but it's still complex to put it, to
put Humpty Dumpty back together a little bit, and that's complicated.
As an investor, I like complicated situations because you know,
(06:02):
most people shy away from them, and that's where you
can create value.
Speaker 4 (06:05):
Well as an investor, particularly in sports. I mean, you
have a lot of portfolio investors now looking for an
entry point into the world of sports, sports as an
asset class, if you will. What happens for those folks,
those folks that aren't the mark out in ostios that
can sort of buy the actual entire team. Are they
going to have an opportunity to buy a slice of
(06:25):
some of these teams or these leagues.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
Yeah, they will remain and in a couple of ways. Actually,
now there's a lot more liquidity in the secondary market,
and at these valuations, very few people can you know,
Josh Hiris can figure out how to buy the Washington Commanders,
but you know, at six point six billion dollars, kind
of a big ticket for most folks. And so, but
you can now buy pieces of teams. So both I
(06:49):
believe the Dolphins and the Eagles put evaluation at eight
billion dollars, and so pieces of it off. In those cases,
the NFL has approved funds to do that, so high
net worth individuals can get involved in funds. But there's
also secondary opportunities. And now I believe, like Morgan Stanley
for example, is coming up with an ETF for sports
(07:11):
broad You know, if you look at the sports ecosystem broadly,
and it's three trillion dollars, it's not just teams and leagues,
it's media, it's you know, betting, it's infrastructure, and and
then it's you know, it's even companies that provide equipment
those industries. So there's now how they're going to create
(07:31):
an index I'll be curious to.
Speaker 4 (07:33):
That's what I'm curious about too. And then you got
the whole fan issues, right if you have a bad
game or bad uh season, does everyone just sell everything?
Speaker 2 (07:41):
You know, you see at least in collectibles and we
you know, I just this is just hitting me. You
actually have the prices of collectible cards trade based on
how the player does that year. That's not really the
long term value.
Speaker 4 (07:54):
Of the card.
Speaker 2 (07:56):
So obviously vintage cards you have to worry about that
with Babe Ruth, but you know, Mike Traps cards trade
up and down depending on whether he's injury. That's but
it'll be easting to see if that happens with sports investment.
All right, Mark really appreciate it.
Speaker 4 (08:07):
We'll let you get back to it. Mark on a nasal,
the co founder of Crescent Capital,
Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio News.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Welcome back to Bloomberg Markets.
Speaker 3 (00:15):
I'm Shinali Basik here with Romaine Bostek live at the
Milkan Institute Global Conference. Now we're joined here by Mark
at Nacio. Of course you might know him as a brewers,
owner of the mill markety, but if you also know
him as the co founder of Press and Capital Group,
so steeped in credit markets.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
First, let's take a big step back.
Speaker 3 (00:35):
We're talking about how I think this might be the
busiest Milk and I have been in my career. It's
because you had the Treasury secretary year, you had Elon
Musk here overnight, and a lot of talks about a
valatle economic environment. How do you make sense of it
all to your investors and to your colleagues across the industry.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
Well, volatility, and thanks again for having me on. It's
always interesting to mark year to year how things are going.
Last year, all the questions were about how do you
deal with stability and what about lower interest rates? So
we don't have the challenges of stability anymore, you know,
I think one of the things you do in certain
(01:12):
times like this is you step back and you kind
of assess things because while there's a lot of you know,
day to day volatility which affects you in the public
markets as private investors in Preston's eighty percent private capital
and as you know, more loans than equity adjacent, we
can just see how it all plays out. So the
(01:34):
Secretary of the Treasury today was talking about this three
part plan right for lower taxes, less regulation, and addressing
trade and balances. And I was at a reception that
he spoke at yesterday. He spoke a little more off
the record, but I'll put it on the record now
about how that you know, maybe you could even address
that holistically and that it should all come together and work,
(01:58):
and you know it might now it Donald Reagan, I believe,
tried the same thing, and it's not so easy, especially
now because the world really is truly global and we're
sort of you know, uncoupling that a little bit. But
you know, maybe maybe this will all come together and
work out well for the country. Clearly things that swung
too far in the other direction, you know, economically in
(02:19):
terms of trade and balances, and it's getting addressed.
Speaker 4 (02:21):
Do you think that we're going to see a little
bit more stability out of Washington as we get.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
Deeper into the year, well, I think you've already started
to see that Washington pays attention to the markets, as
you had sharp moves, especially in the bond market that
raised some concerns. And you know, I think the Treasury
Secretary is quite measured, and I think he does have
the presidency here, which is which is a good thing.
And of course most of Wall Street is a fan
(02:47):
of Jerome Powell. So the fact that whether he's going
to stay on as affecture or not now for at
least for now is off the table. Is a constructive film.
Speaker 3 (02:55):
But one issue I'm saying Scott Bess intends to move
the markets, particularly the bond market. But you're seeing a
rise upward in the ten year, you know, over the
last three days and back, as we said here today
we're at four thirty five, so higher regardless of all
the veteroric that has been passed around over the last
couple of days. So what do you make of this
(03:17):
higher for longer scenarios in the bond market? And are
you worried that the bond market is starting to shake
off any relief that taxes might bring to the broader
physical story of the United States.
Speaker 2 (03:30):
Well Son all, a higher for longer has been somewhat
the theme for a long time now, and again the
bond market hyperventilates over twenty basis point moves. Wasn't that
long ago that we were worried that higher for longer
meant hundreds of basis point moves. I went to a
private dinner Jamie Diamond had and that the concern was
that a seven percent, you know, reference rate, that we
(03:54):
have a lot of default. So we're nowhere near that.
And all of this is very constructive for private lenders
because it sets a high floor for us to earn
a spread over. And I talked about this last year.
So our investors enjoy having an embedded portfolio that continues
to have high yeels since most of it is floating rate.
Speaker 3 (04:14):
So you mind, let's switch gears for a second here,
because in addition to your world as an investor in
thread of markets, you are bury from it. A sports investor,
you got in a lot earlier than a lot of
you're a private investment bibles have gotten in. We were
talking about the Brewers. I'm actually curious now that we're
talking about some of the off the record conversations about
how you think that the live golf situation is going.
Speaker 2 (04:37):
To play out, so that that would count as a
high inside fast fold with me trying to hit. Look,
I've been constructive in this for a while, going back
to when you know John Henry. First of all, I
should say, who runs you know, the CEO of Famway
(04:58):
and they owned Liverpool and the Red Sox and the Penguins.
He did a brilliant job in structuring this and he
really focused on it. And so from my standpoint, which
was now a couple of years ago, I felt like
the best athletes want to compete against the best. They
always do. It's the reason Shoeyo Tani a number of
(05:18):
the Japanese players are coming to playing the major leagues
now because you know, you want to test yourself. And
so I always felt there was a reason for the
two sides to come together. I think that you know,
the prince in Saudi would like to see something work out,
although what they've done is quite impressive. And you know,
(05:42):
we now have a president who is an avid golfer
and absolutely wants to see this work. So you know,
you have a lot of folks who want to see
it work, but it's still complex to put it, to
put Humpty Dumpty back together a little bit, and that's complicated.
As an investor, I like complicated situations because you know,
(06:02):
most people shy away from them, and that's where you
can create value.
Speaker 4 (06:05):
Well as an investor, particularly in sports. I mean, you
have a lot of portfolio investors now looking for an
entry point into the world of sports, sports as an
asset class, if you will. What happens for those folks,
those folks that aren't the mark out in ostios that
can sort of buy the actual entire team. Are they
going to have an opportunity to buy a slice of
(06:25):
some of these teams or these leagues.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
Yeah, they will remain and in a couple of ways. Actually,
now there's a lot more liquidity in the secondary market,
and at these valuations, very few people can you know,
Josh Hiris can figure out how to buy the Washington Commanders,
but you know, at six point six billion dollars, kind
of a big ticket for most folks. And so, but
you can now buy pieces of teams. So both I
(06:49):
believe the Dolphins and the Eagles put evaluation at eight
billion dollars, and so pieces of it off. In those cases,
the NFL has approved funds to do that, so high
net worth individuals can get involved in funds. But there's
also secondary opportunities. And now I believe, like Morgan Stanley
for example, is coming up with an ETF for sports
(07:11):
broad You know, if you look at the sports ecosystem broadly,
and it's three trillion dollars, it's not just teams and leagues,
it's media, it's you know, betting, it's infrastructure, and and
then it's you know, it's even companies that provide equipment
those industries. So there's now how they're going to create
(07:31):
an index I'll be curious to.
Speaker 4 (07:33):
That's what I'm curious about too. And then you got
the whole fan issues, right if you have a bad
game or bad uh season, does everyone just sell everything?
Speaker 2 (07:41):
You know, you see at least in collectibles and we
you know, I just this is just hitting me. You
actually have the prices of collectible cards trade based on
how the player does that year. That's not really the
long term value.
Speaker 4 (07:54):
Of the card.
Speaker 2 (07:56):
So obviously vintage cards you have to worry about that
with Babe Ruth, but you know, Mike Traps cards trade
up and down depending on whether he's injury. That's but
it'll be easting to see if that happens with sports investment.
All right, Mark really appreciate it.
Speaker 4 (08:07):
We'll let you get back to it. Mark on a nasal,
the co founder of Crescent Capital,
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