March 19, 2025 • 16 mins
Ripple Labs CEO Brad Garlinghouse discusses the US Securities and Exchange Commission case against the crypto company has ended, the latest of several enforcement actions that have been abandoned during the early weeks of President Donald Trump’s administration. “This provides a lot of certainty for Ripple,” Garlinghouse said in an interview Wednesday on Bloomberg Television. He estimated that the San Francisco-based blockchain infrastructure company has spent more than $150 million to defend itself. Garlinghouse spoke with Bloomberg's Sonali Basak.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Here with Us now Live. Ripple CEO Brad.
Speaker 3 (00:09):
Garling House, And of course this has been a long battle.
How much certainty does this provide is the entire case over.
Speaker 4 (00:18):
So this provides a lot of certainty for Ripple, for
Frankly me personally, because the SEC had sued me. The
SEC has abandoned their appeal, and so they filed suit
in December of twenty twenty. We won on the key
parts of the case. In the summer of twenty three,
Judge Torres made a ruling that XRP in and of
itself was not a security. It's almost overbatim quote. The
(00:40):
SEC filed an appeal about eight months ago, and what
they've now agreed is.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
They're going to drop that appeal.
Speaker 4 (00:48):
We still have a cross appeal pending, and so we
go from being defendant really too plaintiff.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
So we now are.
Speaker 4 (00:54):
The driver's seat to determine how we want to proceed.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
Are you dropping it?
Speaker 4 (00:58):
We're going to see it feels a lot better to
be on the offense than the defense. You know, four years,
we spent over one hundred and fifty million dollars defending
that case. Not just for Ripple, but for the whole industry.
I think it was really important that this SEC, the
Gensler SEC, was really trying to bully and continued law
fair filing lawsuits and lawsuits and lawsuits against crypto companies.
(01:20):
That's over now, and I think that's great for the
US crypto industry and frankly great for crypto at large.
Speaker 3 (01:24):
I mean, to that end, if you're looking at a
new SEC, why not drop the case at this point?
Why not clear the pay or why not clear the water?
Speaker 1 (01:31):
Well, that certainly is an option.
Speaker 4 (01:32):
I mean, again, it's clear the SEC has said, you
know they I think in retrospect never would have brought
this case.
Speaker 1 (01:39):
The judge did rule in certain.
Speaker 4 (01:42):
Instances back in twenty fifteen and twenty sixteen some XRP
sales that we sold to accredited investors to institutions that
those had constituted a security, and so there was a
one hundred and twenty five million dollar fine that's sitting
in escrow. We wouldn't mind having that back. That's on
the table, and I think they're some nuances to know
how this will play out. But it was important for us,
(02:04):
for really the whole XRP community for them to know
that the cases for all intense purposes, the case is over.
Speaker 1 (02:09):
The SEC is no longer pursuing that to that.
Speaker 3 (02:11):
End, to your point here, the court decision had ordered
you to pay a one hundred and twenty five million
dollars civil penalty for exactly what you were talking about.
Is that one hundred and twenty five million paid, is
what you're saying.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
That's still up participet.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
Yeah, well it's not a dispute.
Speaker 4 (02:27):
I mean, that's sitting in an escrow, and you know,
depending upon whether we decide to continue with our appeal,
we could walk away.
Speaker 1 (02:35):
And the whole thing and be done, done done.
Speaker 4 (02:37):
On the other hand, when you have a case where
there were no investor, no investor harm, no investors lost.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
Any money, you're kind of like, wait, like why are
we here?
Speaker 4 (02:45):
And it really goes back to Gary Gensler fighting a
fight that was about power grab, that was about overreach
of the bureaucracy to try to take a new industry.
That what we're seeing now happening in Washington is smart
legislation will come forward that happened with stable coins in
real time, and I think you'll have a market Structure
Bill is what it's described as to provide clarity and
(03:07):
rules for the SEC and CF we will look at.
Speaker 2 (03:09):
The bigger picture.
Speaker 3 (03:10):
We're going to have you for a little while this morning.
But do you think that part of this means fighting
it till the very end to make sure even that
part of uncertainty around being sold to certain investors classifies
as a security.
Speaker 2 (03:22):
Is that what you are fighting for ultimately at this point?
Speaker 4 (03:25):
Well, I mean, at this point, all we're fighting for
is do we want to fight to get one hundred
and twenty five million dollars back?
Speaker 1 (03:32):
We look, I'll be honest.
Speaker 4 (03:34):
Would I have walked away from that before they appealed?
Before President Trump put Paul Atkins and Scott Bessend and
David Sachs as critical key, very smart leaders in this
industry to bring this industry back on shore, I would
have walked away.
Speaker 1 (03:48):
Now you look at that, like this case in.
Speaker 4 (03:51):
This SEC never would have been brought. And so where
we find ourselves is great. There's a clear illegal victory
to say xarp's not a security that was good for
the industry, But there's pieces of it that we think
could be kind of cleaned up, and there's questions, do
we want to fight that fight or can we come
to agreement with the SEC to drop everything the whole
idea that.
Speaker 2 (04:10):
This wouldn't have been brought under this SEC.
Speaker 3 (04:11):
Have you had that specific discussion with Paul Adkins and
with David Sachs.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
Well, Paul Adkins hasn't yet been confirmed.
Speaker 4 (04:18):
You know, he's a very knowledgele guy about this industry
and has been for.
Speaker 1 (04:22):
A long time. But I've had conversations.
Speaker 4 (04:25):
I won't comment on specifics with certainly, you know, I
think David Sachs would agree that this is a case
that didn't make a lot of sense in the beginning. Again,
there was no investor harm. This was about Gary Gensler
waging new war against this industry.
Speaker 2 (04:37):
You know, it's interesting.
Speaker 3 (04:38):
I want to also point out that the affiliated token,
of course XRP has been up roughly fourteen percent now
about thirteen percent in the last twenty four hours.
Speaker 2 (04:46):
You know, one thing a lot of people had looked at.
Speaker 3 (04:48):
We're thinking a lot about how the administration is handling
crypto assets, particularly outside of bitcoin. Why do you think
XRP wasn't specifically named in the Executive order for the
Digital asset STOCKPIP.
Speaker 4 (05:00):
Well, so XRP was named by the President in untruth
social he posted something saying that there should be other tokens,
that there's going to be a bitcoin strategic reserve and
then a crypto stockpile that would include things like excesse.
Speaker 2 (05:14):
Later the executive order didn't include it. Why was that.
Speaker 4 (05:17):
I don't know what specifically is in the executive order.
My understanding is there's going to be a bitcoin strategic reserve,
there'll be a crypto stockpile representing other cryptos, and I
would expect that will include XRP. Look, at the end
of the day, I think the stark contrast is in
the Biden administration, we couldn't get a meeting with people
at the White House. Now we're welcomed into the White House,
(05:40):
and that's just a massive change. I think we want
this industry to thrive in the United States. We don't
want to push it offshore where you have fewer regulations.
Speaker 3 (05:47):
I think the reason they keep pushing you too is
because I think now it's widely accepted that this is
a pro crypto administration, but the details, that is what's
causing an overhand The uncertainty of the details, so to
the extent you have confidence right about XRP being in
that stockpile or otherwise getting more support for an ETF
for example, Where does that confidence come from and what
(06:09):
kind of timeline do you see.
Speaker 2 (06:10):
It happening A on?
Speaker 1 (06:11):
So I have immense confidence on the ETF.
Speaker 4 (06:13):
I think there's eleven different filings pending with the SEC
to launch ETFs from everybody from bitwise to Franklin Templeton
and a whole bunch of people in between. I think
those will be live in the second half of this year.
We have seen even outside the United States, you have
live ETPs, and at a time when a lot of
outflows are exiting, some of the crypto ETFs are seeing
(06:35):
inflows into XRP. And I think that's because you had
this false negative pressure from the SEC. This is kind of,
you know, a exognous hand holding things down that's now
being released.
Speaker 1 (06:47):
And that's great for the market.
Speaker 4 (06:49):
It's great for builders within the XRP ecosystem globally.
Speaker 2 (06:53):
One more on the stock pam, Yeah, how much XRP
would be in it? Where does it come from?
Speaker 4 (06:58):
Well, my understanding what I read about the I mean,
I think there are some questions and that the devil.
Maybe in the details as Treasury implements some.
Speaker 2 (07:05):
Of this absolutely details, but.
Speaker 4 (07:07):
My understanding is that the stockpile wi be represented by
seized other cryptos other than Bitcoin, that then we'll be
in that stockpile.
Speaker 1 (07:16):
So to the extent that.
Speaker 4 (07:17):
Various law enforcement agencies have seized cryptos which would include XRP,
that those would go into the stockpile in addition to
the Bitcoin Strategic Reserve.
Speaker 3 (07:26):
That's my understanding, Riple CEO Brad garling House. And of
course we have been talking here about a big moment
for you and for your company, of course, a rollback
really of the tensions that had been brewing.
Speaker 2 (07:37):
With the SEC. And let's talk about the next phase.
Speaker 3 (07:41):
One thing I'm really wondering about now that there's more
clarity for you, is that is an IPO, frankly in
your future. Now we talk so much about the potential
for the XRP token to be wrapped in an ETF
that is a method of listing.
Speaker 2 (07:57):
So is listing possible now for you for Ripple, well.
Speaker 1 (08:02):
Certainly something that is possible.
Speaker 4 (08:04):
The United States SEC under Gensler was so hostile to
this industry, I mean, ironically they approved the s one
from coinbase and then sued them for doing the things
they said they were doing.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
So this sec fortunately is going.
Speaker 4 (08:15):
To be I think very constructive and positive for this industry.
Speaker 1 (08:18):
So I think that's available.
Speaker 4 (08:19):
I think the companies at a stage where we could
consider that. That being said, it isn't a huge priority,
you know, I think most companies are going public raising
capital is something that is high.
Speaker 1 (08:28):
On their radar.
Speaker 4 (08:29):
You know, we have been in a very fortunate position
to be able to grow the business organically. We're also
frankly more proactive and looking at acquisitions. That this is
an industry that finally is going to be able to
thrive in the United States, the largest economy in the world.
And I think the industry is still underestimating the shift
from the headwinds to the tailwinds. That's going to make
(08:49):
a bigger difference that people think. And finally, the US
market is really unlocked.
Speaker 3 (08:53):
So it sounds like what you're saying, acquisitions are almost
more of a priority now than an IPO for you.
So then what would you be looking for to buy
and how big are you willing to go?
Speaker 4 (09:02):
Well, I'm not going to name names, but look Ripple
at its core is a blockchain infrastructure company. We sell
our technologies to business, primarily financial institutions, and we'll look
at other things that are blockchain infrastructure companies. I think
there will be consolidation this year. There's a lot of
excitement about some of the changes, and you know we
(09:22):
will lean into that for sure.
Speaker 3 (09:24):
So when you think about what's possible in terms of
financial institutions, there's been a lot of conversation about loosening
of regulations and red tape when it comes to the
financial industry and its interactions with the crypto community. What
are you actually seeing have and our bank's really warming
up in a way that's significant right now?
Speaker 1 (09:42):
I mean I think unequivocally yes.
Speaker 4 (09:44):
I mean, just in the last few weeks, I have
seen US financial institutions go from being like, look, we're
just not going to touch it because we don't want
the extra scrutiny of the regulators, which again may or
may not have even been legal, given these are legal businesses.
But you have large banks who used to say negative
things now saying positive things. I think that the two
areas you'll see the most activity in the short term.
(10:06):
One is around custody. These are banks that want to
be able to custody, particularly when you see real world
assets being tokenized.
Speaker 1 (10:13):
You need to be able to safely.
Speaker 4 (10:15):
Manage and custody that for customers and potentially for the bank.
Speaker 1 (10:18):
And the second is around payments.
Speaker 4 (10:20):
I mean, the global payments infrastructure still remains very dated.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
Wires are slow.
Speaker 4 (10:25):
I just had a wire that was sending over Euro's
disappear for five days.
Speaker 1 (10:30):
You know, that's surprising a world of the Internet.
Speaker 3 (10:33):
So one part of that payment's infrastructure that I'm watching
really closely is, of course stable coins. There is starting
to be more clarity in Washington, and you're seeing people
starting to use stable coins in really interesting ways. I
think about Robinhood, for example, using stable coin in terms
of facilitating twenty four hour trading.
Speaker 2 (10:50):
What's next?
Speaker 3 (10:51):
I mean, if you think about the next forefront of
stable coins, now that the US is getting toward clarity,
what's possible.
Speaker 4 (11:00):
Well, again, I think we're underestimated how big that might get.
You know, today that market's about two hundred and thirty
billion dollars, so I think some smart people think that
may go up ten.
Speaker 1 (11:09):
X in the next five years. I think that's probably right.
Speaker 4 (11:11):
I mean, the two leading players and tether as well
as USDC are both I think poised to do well
in that market. Ripple launched our own stable coin at
the end of last year. That's already ahead of our
own internal forecasts in terms of where we are at
this point in the year. It's still we're small, but
the goal is by the end of the year for
r l USD Ripple stable coin to be one of
(11:32):
the top five in the market by the end of
the year.
Speaker 1 (11:33):
And I think the whole market's going to grow dramatically
of this year.
Speaker 2 (11:36):
So what does it take you to get there? Who
are you pairing up with?
Speaker 3 (11:40):
Are you creating some financial partnerships in order to make
our l usc more of a household name.
Speaker 1 (11:46):
Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 4 (11:47):
I mean even today we had more listings go live
for our l USD on some global crypto exchanges.
Speaker 1 (11:53):
You know, anytime you do something new, it takes.
Speaker 4 (11:55):
A minute for that kind of if the pun of
the Ripple effect of seeing how that plays out, and
so we're seeing that happen in real time.
Speaker 1 (12:01):
So I'm really pleased.
Speaker 4 (12:03):
Again, as I said, we're ahead of our Q one
forecasts of where we expect it to be, So we
feel really good about that progress.
Speaker 2 (12:09):
Given through what you have gone through with the SEC.
Speaker 3 (12:11):
I think one major question is how tokens list in
the future, What do they mean?
Speaker 2 (12:16):
How are they classified?
Speaker 3 (12:18):
Now that you're talking about many other say even private
equity companies looking to tokenize their funds. Venture capitalist Kathy
Wood told us yesterday she's considering that.
Speaker 2 (12:26):
For her own fund. What does this mean? What are
the rules of the road.
Speaker 3 (12:30):
Are people going to list and put the cart in
front of the horse as they do?
Speaker 2 (12:35):
So?
Speaker 4 (12:36):
Yeah, well, look, I think tokenizing, like what Kathy Wood's
talking about, democratizing access to do different investment vehicles in
different investment types is very compelling. Even you imagine shark
tank enabling the participation by different sharks, Like, there's some
really interesting stuff you could do. Right now, Congress, it seems,
is more focused on getting stable coin legislation passed. That
(12:57):
went for markup last week, and I think you'll see
that potentially in front.
Speaker 1 (13:00):
Of the President in weeks.
Speaker 4 (13:02):
The other piece of legislation I think we'll move quickly
after that is kind of the market Structure bill last summer.
If something called Fit twenty one past the House did
not get through the Senate, I think that a market
structure bill like FIT twenty one will come before Congress,
hopefully before the summer recess.
Speaker 1 (13:18):
We'll see that pass.
Speaker 3 (13:19):
Also, you know, when you think about how many exchanges
are now looking to loosen their listing standards, already on
the heels of lighter oversight and the cart before the
horse question.
Speaker 2 (13:28):
Do you think that people are getting a little ahead
of themselves and listing things that shouldn't be listed.
Speaker 4 (13:32):
Well, I don't think about it as lighter regulation, because, frankly,
I think the industry wants to be regulated. And what
we've been saying for years as an industry is we
just want clear regulation.
Speaker 1 (13:43):
We don't want lawsuits.
Speaker 4 (13:44):
Just claiming one thing and the next week contradicting themselves,
which is exactly what Gensler's SEC was doing. So I
think just the fact that we have an SEC who's
trying to work constructively instead of trying to sue more companies.
Let's actually work and let's codify and get legislation to
provide that clarity.
Speaker 3 (14:00):
Again, if you don't have that clarity, what you saw
years ago was an ICO boom where tons of things
that were raising money never worked out for the people
that were buying the tokens or points.
Speaker 4 (14:12):
Look, I agreed, I said then that I think of it.
Some of these icos were a lot more like IPOs.
They were securities. The problem is the sec then kind
of used that to just blanket and say, I mean, well,
Gensler said, before he was SEC chair, he didn't think
there are securities, and then after he became SEC chair,
as kind of his power grab, Gensler wanted everything under
his jurisdiction.
Speaker 1 (14:32):
So I think I was that ICO boom.
Speaker 4 (14:34):
Went away, and there's lots of ways this government can
regulate and manage fraud and manage criminal.
Speaker 1 (14:39):
Activity, and that did happen. People did go to jail.
Speaker 3 (14:42):
I have one more question for you about ripple on XRP,
in particular on the supply and how it's managed and
the unlocks. Is there anything you would do to change
the amount of supply brought to market?
Speaker 2 (14:53):
Can you do that? How does that exactly work?
Speaker 3 (14:56):
Because there is a level of dilution for XRP when
more supply is in on a regular basis.
Speaker 4 (15:01):
So this is one of the things I'm glad you
ASKEDECT because there's frankly misinformation. Sometimes frank disinformation people spreading
falsehoods out there. The amount of XRP that was created
in twenty twelve when it was first started that blockchain
has first started was one hundred billion units.
Speaker 1 (15:16):
That can't be increased. It's slightly deflationary. Now there's about
ninety nine point nine billion units.
Speaker 4 (15:21):
Ripple owns about forty two percent of that supply.
Speaker 1 (15:25):
We have had in for I guess eight years.
Speaker 4 (15:27):
We published something called the XRP Markets Report, where we
share how much we are introducing into the market because
we want that to be predictable, and that has been
the case for many years now, and so we will
continue to make sure that's very predictable. You know, at
some point maybe we won't be selling as much. We'll
see how that plays out in the future. But right now, frankly,
(15:47):
we get criticized for owning too much, and then we're
criticized for selling some. But we want to do that
in a constructive way, which is what we've done for years.
Speaker 2 (15:54):
We'll be keeping a close eye on those moves. Brad,
thank you for joining us here.
Speaker 3 (15:58):
On said, I know that it's a big announcement and
for Ripple, and of course a lot of still changes
still ahead. That is of course, Ripple CEO Brad Garling House,
Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Here with Us now Live. Ripple CEO Brad.
Speaker 3 (00:09):
Garling House, And of course this has been a long battle.
How much certainty does this provide is the entire case over.
Speaker 4 (00:18):
So this provides a lot of certainty for Ripple, for
Frankly me personally, because the SEC had sued me. The
SEC has abandoned their appeal, and so they filed suit
in December of twenty twenty. We won on the key
parts of the case. In the summer of twenty three,
Judge Torres made a ruling that XRP in and of
itself was not a security. It's almost overbatim quote. The
(00:40):
SEC filed an appeal about eight months ago, and what
they've now agreed is.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
They're going to drop that appeal.
Speaker 4 (00:48):
We still have a cross appeal pending, and so we
go from being defendant really too plaintiff.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
So we now are.
Speaker 4 (00:54):
The driver's seat to determine how we want to proceed.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
Are you dropping it?
Speaker 4 (00:58):
We're going to see it feels a lot better to
be on the offense than the defense. You know, four years,
we spent over one hundred and fifty million dollars defending
that case. Not just for Ripple, but for the whole industry.
I think it was really important that this SEC, the
Gensler SEC, was really trying to bully and continued law
fair filing lawsuits and lawsuits and lawsuits against crypto companies.
(01:20):
That's over now, and I think that's great for the
US crypto industry and frankly great for crypto at large.
Speaker 3 (01:24):
I mean, to that end, if you're looking at a
new SEC, why not drop the case at this point?
Why not clear the pay or why not clear the water?
Speaker 1 (01:31):
Well, that certainly is an option.
Speaker 4 (01:32):
I mean, again, it's clear the SEC has said, you
know they I think in retrospect never would have brought
this case.
Speaker 1 (01:39):
The judge did rule in certain.
Speaker 4 (01:42):
Instances back in twenty fifteen and twenty sixteen some XRP
sales that we sold to accredited investors to institutions that
those had constituted a security, and so there was a
one hundred and twenty five million dollar fine that's sitting
in escrow. We wouldn't mind having that back. That's on
the table, and I think they're some nuances to know
how this will play out. But it was important for us,
(02:04):
for really the whole XRP community for them to know
that the cases for all intense purposes, the case is over.
Speaker 1 (02:09):
The SEC is no longer pursuing that to that.
Speaker 3 (02:11):
End, to your point here, the court decision had ordered
you to pay a one hundred and twenty five million
dollars civil penalty for exactly what you were talking about.
Is that one hundred and twenty five million paid, is
what you're saying.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
That's still up participet.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
Yeah, well it's not a dispute.
Speaker 4 (02:27):
I mean, that's sitting in an escrow, and you know,
depending upon whether we decide to continue with our appeal,
we could walk away.
Speaker 1 (02:35):
And the whole thing and be done, done done.
Speaker 4 (02:37):
On the other hand, when you have a case where
there were no investor, no investor harm, no investors lost.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
Any money, you're kind of like, wait, like why are
we here?
Speaker 4 (02:45):
And it really goes back to Gary Gensler fighting a
fight that was about power grab, that was about overreach
of the bureaucracy to try to take a new industry.
That what we're seeing now happening in Washington is smart
legislation will come forward that happened with stable coins in
real time, and I think you'll have a market Structure
Bill is what it's described as to provide clarity and
(03:07):
rules for the SEC and CF we will look at.
Speaker 2 (03:09):
The bigger picture.
Speaker 3 (03:10):
We're going to have you for a little while this morning.
But do you think that part of this means fighting
it till the very end to make sure even that
part of uncertainty around being sold to certain investors classifies
as a security.
Speaker 2 (03:22):
Is that what you are fighting for ultimately at this point?
Speaker 4 (03:25):
Well, I mean, at this point, all we're fighting for
is do we want to fight to get one hundred
and twenty five million dollars back?
Speaker 1 (03:32):
We look, I'll be honest.
Speaker 4 (03:34):
Would I have walked away from that before they appealed?
Before President Trump put Paul Atkins and Scott Bessend and
David Sachs as critical key, very smart leaders in this
industry to bring this industry back on shore, I would
have walked away.
Speaker 1 (03:48):
Now you look at that, like this case in.
Speaker 4 (03:51):
This SEC never would have been brought. And so where
we find ourselves is great. There's a clear illegal victory
to say xarp's not a security that was good for
the industry, But there's pieces of it that we think
could be kind of cleaned up, and there's questions, do
we want to fight that fight or can we come
to agreement with the SEC to drop everything the whole
idea that.
Speaker 2 (04:10):
This wouldn't have been brought under this SEC.
Speaker 3 (04:11):
Have you had that specific discussion with Paul Adkins and
with David Sachs.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
Well, Paul Adkins hasn't yet been confirmed.
Speaker 4 (04:18):
You know, he's a very knowledgele guy about this industry
and has been for.
Speaker 1 (04:22):
A long time. But I've had conversations.
Speaker 4 (04:25):
I won't comment on specifics with certainly, you know, I
think David Sachs would agree that this is a case
that didn't make a lot of sense in the beginning. Again,
there was no investor harm. This was about Gary Gensler
waging new war against this industry.
Speaker 2 (04:37):
You know, it's interesting.
Speaker 3 (04:38):
I want to also point out that the affiliated token,
of course XRP has been up roughly fourteen percent now
about thirteen percent in the last twenty four hours.
Speaker 2 (04:46):
You know, one thing a lot of people had looked at.
Speaker 3 (04:48):
We're thinking a lot about how the administration is handling
crypto assets, particularly outside of bitcoin. Why do you think
XRP wasn't specifically named in the Executive order for the
Digital asset STOCKPIP.
Speaker 4 (05:00):
Well, so XRP was named by the President in untruth
social he posted something saying that there should be other tokens,
that there's going to be a bitcoin strategic reserve and
then a crypto stockpile that would include things like excesse.
Speaker 2 (05:14):
Later the executive order didn't include it. Why was that.
Speaker 4 (05:17):
I don't know what specifically is in the executive order.
My understanding is there's going to be a bitcoin strategic reserve,
there'll be a crypto stockpile representing other cryptos, and I
would expect that will include XRP. Look, at the end
of the day, I think the stark contrast is in
the Biden administration, we couldn't get a meeting with people
at the White House. Now we're welcomed into the White House,
(05:40):
and that's just a massive change. I think we want
this industry to thrive in the United States. We don't
want to push it offshore where you have fewer regulations.
Speaker 3 (05:47):
I think the reason they keep pushing you too is
because I think now it's widely accepted that this is
a pro crypto administration, but the details, that is what's
causing an overhand The uncertainty of the details, so to
the extent you have confidence right about XRP being in
that stockpile or otherwise getting more support for an ETF
for example, Where does that confidence come from and what
(06:09):
kind of timeline do you see.
Speaker 2 (06:10):
It happening A on?
Speaker 1 (06:11):
So I have immense confidence on the ETF.
Speaker 4 (06:13):
I think there's eleven different filings pending with the SEC
to launch ETFs from everybody from bitwise to Franklin Templeton
and a whole bunch of people in between. I think
those will be live in the second half of this year.
We have seen even outside the United States, you have
live ETPs, and at a time when a lot of
outflows are exiting, some of the crypto ETFs are seeing
(06:35):
inflows into XRP. And I think that's because you had
this false negative pressure from the SEC. This is kind of,
you know, a exognous hand holding things down that's now
being released.
Speaker 1 (06:47):
And that's great for the market.
Speaker 4 (06:49):
It's great for builders within the XRP ecosystem globally.
Speaker 2 (06:53):
One more on the stock pam, Yeah, how much XRP
would be in it? Where does it come from?
Speaker 4 (06:58):
Well, my understanding what I read about the I mean,
I think there are some questions and that the devil.
Maybe in the details as Treasury implements some.
Speaker 2 (07:05):
Of this absolutely details, but.
Speaker 4 (07:07):
My understanding is that the stockpile wi be represented by
seized other cryptos other than Bitcoin, that then we'll be
in that stockpile.
Speaker 1 (07:16):
So to the extent that.
Speaker 4 (07:17):
Various law enforcement agencies have seized cryptos which would include XRP,
that those would go into the stockpile in addition to
the Bitcoin Strategic Reserve.
Speaker 3 (07:26):
That's my understanding, Riple CEO Brad garling House. And of
course we have been talking here about a big moment
for you and for your company, of course, a rollback
really of the tensions that had been brewing.
Speaker 2 (07:37):
With the SEC. And let's talk about the next phase.
Speaker 3 (07:41):
One thing I'm really wondering about now that there's more
clarity for you, is that is an IPO, frankly in
your future. Now we talk so much about the potential
for the XRP token to be wrapped in an ETF
that is a method of listing.
Speaker 2 (07:57):
So is listing possible now for you for Ripple, well.
Speaker 1 (08:02):
Certainly something that is possible.
Speaker 4 (08:04):
The United States SEC under Gensler was so hostile to
this industry, I mean, ironically they approved the s one
from coinbase and then sued them for doing the things
they said they were doing.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
So this sec fortunately is going.
Speaker 4 (08:15):
To be I think very constructive and positive for this industry.
Speaker 1 (08:18):
So I think that's available.
Speaker 4 (08:19):
I think the companies at a stage where we could
consider that. That being said, it isn't a huge priority,
you know, I think most companies are going public raising
capital is something that is high.
Speaker 1 (08:28):
On their radar.
Speaker 4 (08:29):
You know, we have been in a very fortunate position
to be able to grow the business organically. We're also
frankly more proactive and looking at acquisitions. That this is
an industry that finally is going to be able to
thrive in the United States, the largest economy in the world.
And I think the industry is still underestimating the shift
from the headwinds to the tailwinds. That's going to make
(08:49):
a bigger difference that people think. And finally, the US
market is really unlocked.
Speaker 3 (08:53):
So it sounds like what you're saying, acquisitions are almost
more of a priority now than an IPO for you.
So then what would you be looking for to buy
and how big are you willing to go?
Speaker 4 (09:02):
Well, I'm not going to name names, but look Ripple
at its core is a blockchain infrastructure company. We sell
our technologies to business, primarily financial institutions, and we'll look
at other things that are blockchain infrastructure companies. I think
there will be consolidation this year. There's a lot of
excitement about some of the changes, and you know we
(09:22):
will lean into that for sure.
Speaker 3 (09:24):
So when you think about what's possible in terms of
financial institutions, there's been a lot of conversation about loosening
of regulations and red tape when it comes to the
financial industry and its interactions with the crypto community. What
are you actually seeing have and our bank's really warming
up in a way that's significant right now?
Speaker 1 (09:42):
I mean I think unequivocally yes.
Speaker 4 (09:44):
I mean, just in the last few weeks, I have
seen US financial institutions go from being like, look, we're
just not going to touch it because we don't want
the extra scrutiny of the regulators, which again may or
may not have even been legal, given these are legal businesses.
But you have large banks who used to say negative
things now saying positive things. I think that the two
areas you'll see the most activity in the short term.
(10:06):
One is around custody. These are banks that want to
be able to custody, particularly when you see real world
assets being tokenized.
Speaker 1 (10:13):
You need to be able to safely.
Speaker 4 (10:15):
Manage and custody that for customers and potentially for the bank.
Speaker 1 (10:18):
And the second is around payments.
Speaker 4 (10:20):
I mean, the global payments infrastructure still remains very dated.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
Wires are slow.
Speaker 4 (10:25):
I just had a wire that was sending over Euro's
disappear for five days.
Speaker 1 (10:30):
You know, that's surprising a world of the Internet.
Speaker 3 (10:33):
So one part of that payment's infrastructure that I'm watching
really closely is, of course stable coins. There is starting
to be more clarity in Washington, and you're seeing people
starting to use stable coins in really interesting ways. I
think about Robinhood, for example, using stable coin in terms
of facilitating twenty four hour trading.
Speaker 2 (10:50):
What's next?
Speaker 3 (10:51):
I mean, if you think about the next forefront of
stable coins, now that the US is getting toward clarity,
what's possible.
Speaker 4 (11:00):
Well, again, I think we're underestimated how big that might get.
You know, today that market's about two hundred and thirty
billion dollars, so I think some smart people think that
may go up ten.
Speaker 1 (11:09):
X in the next five years. I think that's probably right.
Speaker 4 (11:11):
I mean, the two leading players and tether as well
as USDC are both I think poised to do well
in that market. Ripple launched our own stable coin at
the end of last year. That's already ahead of our
own internal forecasts in terms of where we are at
this point in the year. It's still we're small, but
the goal is by the end of the year for
r l USD Ripple stable coin to be one of
(11:32):
the top five in the market by the end of
the year.
Speaker 1 (11:33):
And I think the whole market's going to grow dramatically
of this year.
Speaker 2 (11:36):
So what does it take you to get there? Who
are you pairing up with?
Speaker 3 (11:40):
Are you creating some financial partnerships in order to make
our l usc more of a household name.
Speaker 1 (11:46):
Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 4 (11:47):
I mean even today we had more listings go live
for our l USD on some global crypto exchanges.
Speaker 1 (11:53):
You know, anytime you do something new, it takes.
Speaker 4 (11:55):
A minute for that kind of if the pun of
the Ripple effect of seeing how that plays out, and
so we're seeing that happen in real time.
Speaker 1 (12:01):
So I'm really pleased.
Speaker 4 (12:03):
Again, as I said, we're ahead of our Q one
forecasts of where we expect it to be, So we
feel really good about that progress.
Speaker 2 (12:09):
Given through what you have gone through with the SEC.
Speaker 3 (12:11):
I think one major question is how tokens list in
the future, What do they mean?
Speaker 2 (12:16):
How are they classified?
Speaker 3 (12:18):
Now that you're talking about many other say even private
equity companies looking to tokenize their funds. Venture capitalist Kathy
Wood told us yesterday she's considering that.
Speaker 2 (12:26):
For her own fund. What does this mean? What are
the rules of the road.
Speaker 3 (12:30):
Are people going to list and put the cart in
front of the horse as they do?
Speaker 2 (12:35):
So?
Speaker 4 (12:36):
Yeah, well, look, I think tokenizing, like what Kathy Wood's
talking about, democratizing access to do different investment vehicles in
different investment types is very compelling. Even you imagine shark
tank enabling the participation by different sharks, Like, there's some
really interesting stuff you could do. Right now, Congress, it seems,
is more focused on getting stable coin legislation passed. That
(12:57):
went for markup last week, and I think you'll see
that potentially in front.
Speaker 1 (13:00):
Of the President in weeks.
Speaker 4 (13:02):
The other piece of legislation I think we'll move quickly
after that is kind of the market Structure bill last summer.
If something called Fit twenty one past the House did
not get through the Senate, I think that a market
structure bill like FIT twenty one will come before Congress,
hopefully before the summer recess.
Speaker 1 (13:18):
We'll see that pass.
Speaker 3 (13:19):
Also, you know, when you think about how many exchanges
are now looking to loosen their listing standards, already on
the heels of lighter oversight and the cart before the
horse question.
Speaker 2 (13:28):
Do you think that people are getting a little ahead
of themselves and listing things that shouldn't be listed.
Speaker 4 (13:32):
Well, I don't think about it as lighter regulation, because, frankly,
I think the industry wants to be regulated. And what
we've been saying for years as an industry is we
just want clear regulation.
Speaker 1 (13:43):
We don't want lawsuits.
Speaker 4 (13:44):
Just claiming one thing and the next week contradicting themselves,
which is exactly what Gensler's SEC was doing. So I
think just the fact that we have an SEC who's
trying to work constructively instead of trying to sue more companies.
Let's actually work and let's codify and get legislation to
provide that clarity.
Speaker 3 (14:00):
Again, if you don't have that clarity, what you saw
years ago was an ICO boom where tons of things
that were raising money never worked out for the people
that were buying the tokens or points.
Speaker 4 (14:12):
Look, I agreed, I said then that I think of it.
Some of these icos were a lot more like IPOs.
They were securities. The problem is the sec then kind
of used that to just blanket and say, I mean, well,
Gensler said, before he was SEC chair, he didn't think
there are securities, and then after he became SEC chair,
as kind of his power grab, Gensler wanted everything under
his jurisdiction.
Speaker 1 (14:32):
So I think I was that ICO boom.
Speaker 4 (14:34):
Went away, and there's lots of ways this government can
regulate and manage fraud and manage criminal.
Speaker 1 (14:39):
Activity, and that did happen. People did go to jail.
Speaker 3 (14:42):
I have one more question for you about ripple on XRP,
in particular on the supply and how it's managed and
the unlocks. Is there anything you would do to change
the amount of supply brought to market?
Speaker 2 (14:53):
Can you do that? How does that exactly work?
Speaker 3 (14:56):
Because there is a level of dilution for XRP when
more supply is in on a regular basis.
Speaker 4 (15:01):
So this is one of the things I'm glad you
ASKEDECT because there's frankly misinformation. Sometimes frank disinformation people spreading
falsehoods out there. The amount of XRP that was created
in twenty twelve when it was first started that blockchain
has first started was one hundred billion units.
Speaker 1 (15:16):
That can't be increased. It's slightly deflationary. Now there's about
ninety nine point nine billion units.
Speaker 4 (15:21):
Ripple owns about forty two percent of that supply.
Speaker 1 (15:25):
We have had in for I guess eight years.
Speaker 4 (15:27):
We published something called the XRP Markets Report, where we
share how much we are introducing into the market because
we want that to be predictable, and that has been
the case for many years now, and so we will
continue to make sure that's very predictable. You know, at
some point maybe we won't be selling as much. We'll
see how that plays out in the future. But right now, frankly,
(15:47):
we get criticized for owning too much, and then we're
criticized for selling some. But we want to do that
in a constructive way, which is what we've done for years.
Speaker 2 (15:54):
We'll be keeping a close eye on those moves. Brad,
thank you for joining us here.
Speaker 3 (15:58):
On said, I know that it's a big announcement and
for Ripple, and of course a lot of still changes
still ahead. That is of course, Ripple CEO Brad Garling House,
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!